[mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit names
Moderator: Forum Moderators
Forum rules
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:
- Celtic_Minstrel
- Developer
- Posts: 2231
- Joined: August 3rd, 2012, 11:26 pm
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
I haven't seen a single set of names for the naffat line that I was satisfied with. Your names are serviceable, but not very interesting. Sigurd's names are interesting, but perhaps a little awkward. Neither is really that great, though neither is bad either. I prefer Sigurd's so far.Xalzar wrote:What's wrong with the Naffat line? I mean, you could be absolutely right - could you expand you thought?Celtic_Minstrel wrote:Xalzar's names seem fine, except for the naffat line.
Maybe do you prefer to have names revolving around "fire"? (like Firespitter, Firethrower etc.)
I do think it would be nice to somehow reference the jinn in the L3 though, but I still have no idea how.
My only two objections to this list: 1. I think I slightly prefer "Soldier" to "Infantry"; and 2. I'm still unsatisfied with the khalid name. It works, but it's not great in my opinion.Pentarctagon wrote:Khalid -> Dune Warmaster: I don't think there have been any objections to this so far.Xalzar wrote:Yep. What are the names who truly are accepted at this point?
Trying to compile the list, correct me if I'm wrong:
Arif -> Dune Infantry
Mudafi -> Dune Spearguard
Rasikh -> Dune Spearmaster
Hakim -> Dune Herbalist
Mufariq -> Dune Cataphract
Qanas -> Dune Raider
Hadaf -> Dune Marauder
Saree -> Dune Swiftrider
Jawal -> Dune Windrider
Tabib -> Dune Physician: I am alright with this one as well, if no one else has any objections.
Rami -> Dune Rider: I also don't really have a problem with this one. The name "Rider" is re-used, but I think in this case the "Dune" prefix makes it sound different enough.
- Pentarctagon
- Project Manager
- Posts: 5566
- Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
- Location: Earth (occasionally)
Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
Alright, so, the accepted names list then becomes:Celtic_Minstrel wrote:My only two objections to this list: 1. I think I slightly prefer "Soldier" to "Infantry"; and 2. I'm still unsatisfied with the khalid name. It works, but it's not great in my opinion.
The re-used names list remains:Mudafi -> Dune Spearguard
Rasikh -> Dune Spearmaster
Hakim -> Dune Herbalist
Tabib -> Dune Physician
Mufariq -> Dune Cataphract
Qanas -> Dune Raider
Hadaf -> Dune Marauder
Rami -> Dune Rider
Saree -> Dune Swiftrider
Jawal -> Dune Windrider
And the "other issues" list is:Ghazi -> Dune Swordsman
Shuja -> Dune Blademaster
Khaiyal -> Dune Horseman, Piercer
Faris -> Dune Lancer, Sunderer
The entire Jundi line.
---Arif -> Dune Infantry, Dune Soldier
Khalid -> Dune Warmaster
The entire Naffat line.
Before we get into the rest of it then, is there anyone who objects to Khaiyal and Faris being renamed to Piercer and Sunderer, respectively?
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
-
- Developer
- Posts: 546
- Joined: January 12th, 2011, 2:18 am
- Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
The only one I have an issue with is Physician. It's reasonable, but I think Alchemist or Apothecary would do a better job of adding a fantasy feel.Pentarctagon wrote:Alright, so, the accepted names list then becomes:
Mudafi -> Dune Spearguard
Rasikh -> Dune Spearmaster
Hakim -> Dune Herbalist
Tabib -> Dune Physician
Mufariq -> Dune Cataphract
Qanas -> Dune Raider
Hadaf -> Dune Marauder
Rami -> Dune Rider
Saree -> Dune Swiftrider
Jawal -> Dune Windrider
When I suggested Horseman, it was part of playing around with adding more literal descriptions.Pentarctagon wrote:Before we get into the rest of it then, is there anyone who objects to Khaiyal and Faris being renamed to Piercer and Sunderer, respectively?
I think Piercer is better, it is more flavorful while still being descriptive. (ala Drake Clasher type flavorful)
Not sure which would make a better progression path to Cataphract, Lancer or Sunderer.
While I think it's reasonable to avoid some duplication of use, I don't think it's possible to avoid all of it.
Random thought for Jundi to lessen duplication: Fighter -> Mercenary -> Gladiator
When I first dug up using Skirmisher for the Monawish, from some of the translation posts, I considered Flanker for the L3, but went with Commando as it seemed to have more zing to it.
Co-Author of Winds of Fate
My Add-ons: Random Campaign, Custom Campaign, Ultimate Random Maps, Era of Legends, Gui Debug Tools
Erfworld: The comic that lead me to find Wesnoth.
My Add-ons: Random Campaign, Custom Campaign, Ultimate Random Maps, Era of Legends, Gui Debug Tools
Erfworld: The comic that lead me to find Wesnoth.
Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
Undoubtely Physician gives a more "scientific medic" feel, while Alchemist and Apothecary leave more space to strange fantasy concoctions. I have no particular preference between these three names.SigurdFireDragon wrote: The only one I have an issue with is Physician. It's reasonable, but I think Alchemist or Apothecary would do a better job of adding a fantasy feel.
Gladiator is quite out of place IMO, being an Ancient Roman term which has nothing to do with the unit.SigurdFireDragon wrote: Random thought for Jundi to lessen duplication: Fighter -> Mercenary -> Gladiator
Commando is too modern-sounding for my tastes (it's been used since the 17th century, and Wesnoth has a High Fantasy feel = Medieval times, baby! )SigurdFireDragon wrote: When I first dug up using Skirmisher for the Monawish, from some of the translation posts, I considered Flanker for the L3, but went with Commando as it seemed to have more zing to it.
- Pentarctagon
- Project Manager
- Posts: 5566
- Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
- Location: Earth (occasionally)
Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
Let's got with Apothecary then. Mostly I just don't really like Alchemist, given its more pseudo-scientific connotation.Xalzar wrote:Undoubtely Physician gives a more "scientific medic" feel, while Alchemist and Apothecary leave more space to strange fantasy concoctions. I have no particular preference between these three names.SigurdFireDragon wrote: The only one I have an issue with is Physician. It's reasonable, but I think Alchemist or Apothecary would do a better job of adding a fantasy feel.
It's not something that I think we can completely avoid, but it should be something everyone's at least aware of.SigurdFireDragon wrote:While I think it's reasonable to avoid some duplication of use, I don't think it's possible to avoid all of it.
Advancing to Cataphract both sound about the same. I think Sunderer sounds a lot better advancing from Piercer, though.SigurdFireDragon wrote:When I suggested Horseman, it was part of playing around with adding more literal descriptions.Pentarctagon wrote:Before we get into the rest of it then, is there anyone who objects to Khaiyal and Faris being renamed to Piercer and Sunderer, respectively?
I think Piercer is better, it is more flavorful while still being descriptive. (ala Drake Clasher type flavorful)
Not sure which would make a better progression path to Cataphract, Lancer or Sunderer.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
- Celtic_Minstrel
- Developer
- Posts: 2231
- Joined: August 3rd, 2012, 11:26 pm
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
SigurdFireDragon wrote:The only one I have an issue with is Physician. It's reasonable, but I think Alchemist or Apothecary would do a better job of adding a fantasy feel.
Alchemy is also the ancestor of modern chemistry, though, so it carries both a scientific connotation and a fantasy connotation. On the other hand, the lack of fantasy connotations in physician was kinda the point, since the dunefolk don't really use magic to any great degree. Apothecary on the other hand seems like the most straightforward upgrade for an herbalist, which also (in my opinion) makes it less interesting.Pentarctagon wrote:Let's got with Apothecary then. Mostly I just don't really like Alchemist, given its more pseudo-scientific connotation.
I think my preference in order of best to worst would be physician, alchemist, apothecary. It's a close call though.
Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
If you're really changing the unit names, please provide with an alias in core.
Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
You mean for compatibility with add-ons? E.g.
While it's possible, I don't know if it's really helpful, because there was already the change of the race name, and for the race name it's not possible to do that. So, all filters with race=khalifate are broken.
Assuming you have an alias for the unit types but didn't update all occurrences of the race in your scenario code, the campaign would look like it is working, but some events just won't trigger, and from a player view you wouldn't know why.
It may be harmful to add such an only halfworking backwards compatibility.
Spoiler:
Assuming you have an alias for the unit types but didn't update all occurrences of the race in your scenario code, the campaign would look like it is working, but some events just won't trigger, and from a player view you wouldn't know why.
It may be harmful to add such an only halfworking backwards compatibility.
Try out the dark board theme.
-
- Posts: 198
- Joined: January 1st, 2016, 4:40 pm
- Location: Hopelessly trapped within the Submachine
Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
I agree with the names on the list and with the Piercer->Sunderer, but I prefer Apothecary over Physician.Pentarctagon wrote: Alright, so, the accepted names list then becomes:
Mudafi -> Dune Spearguard
Rasikh -> Dune Spearmaster
Hakim -> Dune Herbalist
Tabib -> Dune Physician
Mufariq -> Dune Cataphract
Qanas -> Dune Raider
Hadaf -> Dune Marauder
Rami -> Dune Rider
Saree -> Dune Swiftrider
Jawal -> Dune Windrider
Before we get into the rest of it then, is there anyone who objects to Khaiyal and Faris being renamed to Piercer and Sunderer, respectively?
-
- Developer
- Posts: 546
- Joined: January 12th, 2011, 2:18 am
- Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
I'm in favor of both of these as well.Caladbolg wrote:I agree with the names on the list and with the Piercer->Sunderer, but I prefer Apothecary over Physician.
Co-Author of Winds of Fate
My Add-ons: Random Campaign, Custom Campaign, Ultimate Random Maps, Era of Legends, Gui Debug Tools
Erfworld: The comic that lead me to find Wesnoth.
My Add-ons: Random Campaign, Custom Campaign, Ultimate Random Maps, Era of Legends, Gui Debug Tools
Erfworld: The comic that lead me to find Wesnoth.
- Pentarctagon
- Project Manager
- Posts: 5566
- Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
- Location: Earth (occasionally)
Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
Alright, that makes the accepted names list:
The undecided names list:Mudafi -> Dune Spearguard
Rasikh -> Dune Spearmaster
Hakim -> Dune Herbalist
Tabib -> Dune Apothecary
Khaiyal -> Dune Piercer
Faris -> Dune Sunderer
Mufariq -> Dune Cataphract
Qanas -> Dune Raider
Hadaf -> Dune Marauder
Rami -> Dune Rider
Saree -> Dune Swiftrider
Jawal -> Dune Windrider
If there are any objections to the above, I'll add them to the "undecided names" list, but otherwise I plan to update the first post with what's been decided so far as well as start the voting tomorrow, since as per Vultraz on Discord today the next release will be on February 4th: ---Ghazi -> Dune Swordsman
Shuja -> Dune Blademaster
Arif -> Dune Infantry, Dune Soldier
Khalid -> Dune Warmaster
The entire Jundi line.
The entire Naffat line.
Xara wrote:If you're really changing the unit names, please provide with an alias in core.
The race renaming had a fair amount done to try to keep backwards compatibility through 1.14. However much is done for the unit renaming though, there will at the very least beShiki wrote:You mean for compatibility with add-ons? E.g.While it's possible, I don't know if it's really helpful, because there was already the change of the race name, and for the race name it's not possible to do that. So, all filters with race=khalifate are broken.Spoiler:
Assuming you have an alias for the unit types but didn't update all occurrences of the race in your scenario code, the campaign would look like it is working, but some events just won't trigger, and from a player view you wouldn't know why.
It may be harmful to add such an only halfworking backwards compatibility.
wmllint
entries for the name changes.99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
-
- Developer
- Posts: 546
- Joined: January 12th, 2011, 2:18 am
- Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
A bunch of Naffat suggestions, does anyone think any of these 'click' or would go well with something else?
Burner -> Flamer -> Scorcher
Burner -> Firebrand -> Scorcher
Burner -> Scorcher -> Pyro
Burner -> Torcher -> Scorcher
Flamer -> Firebrand -> Scorcher
Flamer -> Firebrand -> Pyrotrooper
Flamer -> Burner -> Scorcher
Flamer -> Torcher -> Scorcher
Flamer -> Scorcher -> Pyro
Flamer -> Pyrotrooper -> Scorcher
Flamer -> Scorcher -Pyrotrooper
Flamer -> Scorcher -> Annihilator
Flamer -> Firebrand -> Pyro
Torcher -> Flamer -> Scorcher
Torcher -> Scorcher - Pyro
Torcher -> Firebrand -> Pyro
Torcher -> Firebrand -> Scorcher
Pyro -> Scorcher -> Annihilator
Firebrand -> Scorcher -> Pyro
Burner -> Flamer -> Scorcher
Burner -> Firebrand -> Scorcher
Burner -> Scorcher -> Pyro
Burner -> Torcher -> Scorcher
Flamer -> Firebrand -> Scorcher
Flamer -> Firebrand -> Pyrotrooper
Flamer -> Burner -> Scorcher
Flamer -> Torcher -> Scorcher
Flamer -> Scorcher -> Pyro
Flamer -> Pyrotrooper -> Scorcher
Flamer -> Scorcher -Pyrotrooper
Flamer -> Scorcher -> Annihilator
Flamer -> Firebrand -> Pyro
Torcher -> Flamer -> Scorcher
Torcher -> Scorcher - Pyro
Torcher -> Firebrand -> Pyro
Torcher -> Firebrand -> Scorcher
Pyro -> Scorcher -> Annihilator
Firebrand -> Scorcher -> Pyro
Co-Author of Winds of Fate
My Add-ons: Random Campaign, Custom Campaign, Ultimate Random Maps, Era of Legends, Gui Debug Tools
Erfworld: The comic that lead me to find Wesnoth.
My Add-ons: Random Campaign, Custom Campaign, Ultimate Random Maps, Era of Legends, Gui Debug Tools
Erfworld: The comic that lead me to find Wesnoth.
- ForestDragon
- Posts: 1771
- Joined: March 6th, 2014, 1:32 pm
- Location: Ukraine
Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
how about "Arsonist > Scorcher > Pyromaniac" for Naffat?
also, a few ideas for Jundi:
Mercenary > Veteran > ? (undecided)
Light Infantry > Mercenary > Veteran
also, a few ideas for Jundi:
Mercenary > Veteran > ? (undecided)
Light Infantry > Mercenary > Veteran
My active add-ons: The Great Steppe Era,XP Bank,Alliances Mod,Pestilence,GSE+EoMa,Ogre Crusaders,Battle Royale,EoMaifier,Steppeifier,Hardcoreifier
My inactive add-ons (1.12): Tale of Alan, The Golden Age
Co-creator of Era of Magic
My inactive add-ons (1.12): Tale of Alan, The Golden Age
Co-creator of Era of Magic
- Pentarctagon
- Project Manager
- Posts: 5566
- Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
- Location: Earth (occasionally)
Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
I've updated the first post, and started the poll for the Arif and Ghazi. The poll will run for two days, and each person gets three choices. Assuming one choice doesn't win by a landslide, there will then be a runoff vote on the top three choices.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
- Celtic_Minstrel
- Developer
- Posts: 2231
- Joined: August 3rd, 2012, 11:26 pm
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
Xara wrote:If you're really changing the unit names, please provide with an alias in core.
SinceShiki wrote:You mean for compatibility with add-ons? E.g.While it's possible, I don't know if it's really helpful, because there was already the change of the race name, and for the race name it's not possible to do that. So, all filters with race=khalifate are broken.Spoiler:
Assuming you have an alias for the unit types but didn't update all occurrences of the race in your scenario code, the campaign would look like it is working, but some events just won't trigger, and from a player view you wouldn't know why.
It may be harmful to add such an only halfworking backwards compatibility.
race=khalifate
still exists for backwards compatibility, I guess the backwards compatibility units would be basically what Shiki shows here, with the race changed to khalifate so that filters still workHmm. Firebrand still seems the best of these, but pyrotrooper also doesn't sound bad... although, isn't it a bit too Greek for a Middle-Eastern-type faction?SigurdFireDragon wrote:A bunch of Naffat suggestions, does anyone think any of these 'click' or would go well with something else?
Burner -> Flamer -> Scorcher
Burner -> Firebrand -> Scorcher
Burner -> Scorcher -> Pyro
Burner -> Torcher -> Scorcher
Flamer -> Firebrand -> Scorcher
Flamer -> Firebrand -> Pyrotrooper
Flamer -> Burner -> Scorcher
Flamer -> Torcher -> Scorcher
Flamer -> Scorcher -> Pyro
Flamer -> Pyrotrooper -> Scorcher
Flamer -> Scorcher -Pyrotrooper
Flamer -> Scorcher -> Annihilator
Flamer -> Firebrand -> Pyro
Torcher -> Flamer -> Scorcher
Torcher -> Scorcher - Pyro
Torcher -> Firebrand -> Pyro
Torcher -> Firebrand -> Scorcher
Pyro -> Scorcher -> Annihilator
Firebrand -> Scorcher -> Pyro
Arsonist has criminal implications. Pyromaniac suggests insanity, though I guess only mildly. I definitely don't like arsonist, at least. I'm not fond of pyromaniac, but maybe I could be convinced.ForestDragon wrote:how about "Arsonist > Scorcher > Pyromaniac" for Naffat?