New undead unit: Phantasmal Mist
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New undead unit: Phantasmal Mist
I thought of this unit at work today. I wanted to create a level 2 ghost unit that had some invisibility and would be a good scout (especially for maps with fog of war) and could also be a decent support fighter. Definitely a work in progress.
Phantasmal Mist (yes it's a famous Magic card, but it sounds better than Mist Phantasm)
Level 2 (upgraded from the ghost)
Cost: 30
HP: 35
Attack:Melee cold 4-3
Melee cold 3-3 Confuse
or
Melee cold 3-3 Fear
Experience: -
Picture: Grey mist, perhaps with glowing red eyes burning deep inside.
Special Abilities:
Invisibility: The ghost unit is invisible, except when it attacks, but only during the night (and also during dawn and dusk?). During the day (morning and afternoon), it is completely visible and vulnerable. (I considered full invisibility, like the elven ranger has, to be too powerful for a level 2 unit. And I like the idea that the phantasmal mist is revealed by the light of the sun)
Confuse: Upon a successful melee attack, the victim is surrounded by illusions of enemies and attacks a random enemy unit at half his normal damage per attack (defaulting to melee attack, unless it has none). Next round the unit's movement points are divided in half (rounding down) and it is slowed in combat (similar to being entangled).
(alternate simpler attack ability)
Fear: Upon a successful melee attack, the phantasmal mist instills fear into the hearts of their enemies, effectively slowing them for the next round, similar to the dryad's entangle ability.
Phantasmal Mist is a flying creature, except that due to it's misty nature, it moves faster over water. It also is harder to hit over water. Perhaps to balance it, it could gain less benefit from hills and mountains.
Commentary: I like the idea of a scout that can hide at night and do hit and run attacks. At first I was just going to give him a powerful melee attack, but I think being able to pop out of the night and do a good attack would make it too powerful. Two or three of them could assassinate an enemy unit without any warning, and be hard to prevent. Instead I opted for having a secondary attack ability which could make it a useful support fighter.
I want a weak fighter with a cool ability, entangle works well, except that I think we are trying to avoid duplicating an ability with each race, we want units to be unique. I like the idea of phantasmal mist confusing an enemy, but I don't want it to be broken. Having the a unit that forces the enemy to attack one nearby unit could be too powerful if that unit could then slaughter one of it's own units (such as the marshall or healer right behind the unit).
At the same time, I don't want to just freeze or remove control of the enemy unit. Is it good to allow an attacking unit to prevent the opposing player from controlling their unit? I think not, because freezing an enemy unit (or making it confused and act randomly) could get really annoying, and be too powerful. So while I want to disable the enemy unit somewhat, I don't want to prevent the enemy player from doing anything, they should be able to respond somehow, otherwise you have effectively killed the unit.
So what I end up with is an ability, that can hurt your own units, but can also help cripple enemy units. There's definitely some randomness involved, which might be bad since increasing randomness in a game often tempts me to keep loading save games until I get a good result. But I think it is a good balance for weakening an enemy unit. I think this unit could be deadly with some bats because they can all fly fast for hit and run attacks. It can keep the enemy from fleeing, and allow the bats to go into for the kill.
Phantasmal Mist (yes it's a famous Magic card, but it sounds better than Mist Phantasm)
Level 2 (upgraded from the ghost)
Cost: 30
HP: 35
Attack:Melee cold 4-3
Melee cold 3-3 Confuse
or
Melee cold 3-3 Fear
Experience: -
Picture: Grey mist, perhaps with glowing red eyes burning deep inside.
Special Abilities:
Invisibility: The ghost unit is invisible, except when it attacks, but only during the night (and also during dawn and dusk?). During the day (morning and afternoon), it is completely visible and vulnerable. (I considered full invisibility, like the elven ranger has, to be too powerful for a level 2 unit. And I like the idea that the phantasmal mist is revealed by the light of the sun)
Confuse: Upon a successful melee attack, the victim is surrounded by illusions of enemies and attacks a random enemy unit at half his normal damage per attack (defaulting to melee attack, unless it has none). Next round the unit's movement points are divided in half (rounding down) and it is slowed in combat (similar to being entangled).
(alternate simpler attack ability)
Fear: Upon a successful melee attack, the phantasmal mist instills fear into the hearts of their enemies, effectively slowing them for the next round, similar to the dryad's entangle ability.
Phantasmal Mist is a flying creature, except that due to it's misty nature, it moves faster over water. It also is harder to hit over water. Perhaps to balance it, it could gain less benefit from hills and mountains.
Commentary: I like the idea of a scout that can hide at night and do hit and run attacks. At first I was just going to give him a powerful melee attack, but I think being able to pop out of the night and do a good attack would make it too powerful. Two or three of them could assassinate an enemy unit without any warning, and be hard to prevent. Instead I opted for having a secondary attack ability which could make it a useful support fighter.
I want a weak fighter with a cool ability, entangle works well, except that I think we are trying to avoid duplicating an ability with each race, we want units to be unique. I like the idea of phantasmal mist confusing an enemy, but I don't want it to be broken. Having the a unit that forces the enemy to attack one nearby unit could be too powerful if that unit could then slaughter one of it's own units (such as the marshall or healer right behind the unit).
At the same time, I don't want to just freeze or remove control of the enemy unit. Is it good to allow an attacking unit to prevent the opposing player from controlling their unit? I think not, because freezing an enemy unit (or making it confused and act randomly) could get really annoying, and be too powerful. So while I want to disable the enemy unit somewhat, I don't want to prevent the enemy player from doing anything, they should be able to respond somehow, otherwise you have effectively killed the unit.
So what I end up with is an ability, that can hurt your own units, but can also help cripple enemy units. There's definitely some randomness involved, which might be bad since increasing randomness in a game often tempts me to keep loading save games until I get a good result. But I think it is a good balance for weakening an enemy unit. I think this unit could be deadly with some bats because they can all fly fast for hit and run attacks. It can keep the enemy from fleeing, and allow the bats to go into for the kill.
Nitpick
If it's a flying creature, it would have move 1 over all terrain, and so could not move faster over water.
Why Cost 30?
Sounds fairly good, even it is a bit of a ripoff. (And don't go telling me about Elves/Orcs being ripped off, those are public domain!)
Why Cost 30?
Sounds fairly good, even it is a bit of a ripoff. (And don't go telling me about Elves/Orcs being ripped off, those are public domain!)
The shadow unit are planned to have a night invisibility skill.
See
http://wesnoth.whitevine.net/forum/phpB ... .php?t=508
[urlhttp://wesnoth.whitevine.net/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=512[/url]
See
http://wesnoth.whitevine.net/forum/phpB ... .php?t=508
[urlhttp://wesnoth.whitevine.net/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=512[/url]
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Guest
Re: Nitpick
<pedant>Circon wrote:If it's a flying creature, it would have move 1 over all terrain, and so could not move faster over water.
Actually, it could. For instance, double its movement points, and give it a movement cost of 2 on all terrain but water, and 1 on water.
</pedant>
Don't let Tolkien's estate hear you say that!Sounds fairly good, even it is a bit of a ripoff. (And don't go telling me about Elves/Orcs being ripped off, those are public domain!)
Daniel
Re: Nitpick
I believe movement point cost is defined by movement type, e.g. "flying". Besides, people would look strangely at a 14-move unit, (Even the Outrider only has 10) and would also wonder why a ghost takes 2 movement points over grasslands.<pedant>
Actually, it could. For instance, double its movement points, and give it a movement cost of 2 on all terrain but water, and 1 on water.
</pedant>
Better solution: Fractional movement!!
"Elves" appeared in "A Midsummer Night's Dream" so the name is definitely not property of Tolkien. And the concept of forest-loving, bow-using, immortal, human-sized Elves was IMO *defined* by Tolkien, not copyrighted, in such a way that he effectively told the world how to portray Elves.Don't let Tolkien's estate hear you say that!
Orcs? See Warcraft. (And trolls, and ogres.)
I'd forgotten to read your undead units post fmunoz, looks like you already been me to the punch with a level 2 ghost that could nightstalk. "Shadow" is definitely a shorter and better name than something as long as "Phantasmal Mist". I rescind my idea in favor of shadows. I'd forgotten about the problem with fliers already moving fast. I agree that people get used to fliers haveing certain movement costs over different terrain, and changing that will just get confusing.
However I still think the undead lack a special attack ability to weaken an enemy unit. Maybe we could give it to the spectre, since it doesn't seem to be much different than the wraith.
However I still think the undead lack a special attack ability to weaken an enemy unit. Maybe we could give it to the spectre, since it doesn't seem to be much different than the wraith.
Re: Nitpick
Sure, but you can always add a "waterflier" (for instance) movement type. Different flying units already have different costs for various terrians (I'm thinking particularly of the Shyde vs the Gryphon Rider)Circon wrote: I believe movement point cost is defined by movement type, e.g. "flying".
Oh, of course. The <pedant> tag was there to warn you that I was being pedantic.Besides, people would look strangely at a 14-move unit, (Even the Outrider only has 10) and would also wonder why a ghost takes 2 movement points over grasslands.
Better solution: Fractional movement!!
Fractional movement points are a better approach, I agree!I don't think there's anything "wrong" (in an ethical sense) about using Elves and Orcs, but Tolkien's estate has been rather vigorous in asserting legal rights to his creations. I don't have any reason to think that you'd bring their wrath down on your head over Wesnoth (especially since Warcraft hasn't been bothered); I just find it kind of sad that the Rings story and a lot of things related to it have been so tied up legally for so long. I recently played a board game (the LOTR Risk) based on Tolkien's work, and each and every card in the deck had an individual TM symbol next to the name."Elves" appeared in "A Midsummer Night's Dream" so the name is definitely not property of Tolkien. And the concept of forest-loving, bow-using, immortal, human-sized Elves was IMO *defined* by Tolkien, not copyrighted, in such a way that he effectively told the world how to portray Elves.Don't let Tolkien's estate hear you say that!
Orcs? See Warcraft. (And trolls, and ogres.)
Anyway, this doesn't have much to do with Wesnoth. Probably I shouldn't have mentioned it.
Daniel
Certain parts of Tolkien's estate, e.g. a lawyer who shall remain unnamed, tried to declare each and every word of the elvish languages "copyrighted" to Tolkien. The upshot of this was that they tried to get a Tolkien Language Discussion Group shut down because they were theorizing about different forms of elvish words not mentioned.
Now there's legal nag, especially since JRR himself said (Paraphrasing, but it's something like this) : "I feel like a father of the languages... they must be free to go their own way in the world, without my influence, but I shall always be proud of them".
The quote is from some "Learn Elvish!" site that I found.
Shall we declare this topic dead?
Now there's legal nag, especially since JRR himself said (Paraphrasing, but it's something like this) : "I feel like a father of the languages... they must be free to go their own way in the world, without my influence, but I shall always be proud of them".
The quote is from some "Learn Elvish!" site that I found.
Shall we declare this topic dead?