different terrains

[turin]

What I wanted for Archmages etc. is an attack specialty called "multi-target" or something, that deals 1/2 damage to all other enemies next to the mage.

Setting units on fire is good, but how often would they survive to be burnt?

Instead of having spells that set fire to squares, maybe make a fire creature that sets fire to all squares it walks on?

Don't you think that if you set a forest on fire, it'll spread?
Die, elves, die!

multi-target, IMHO and in many others, makes no sense. Can a mage effect an area larger than 10 square miles? this is how big, in many people's mind, a hex is.

terrains should never be changed by people moving onto them, it is way too complicated.

[Elvish_Pillager]

multi-target, IMHO and in many others, makes no sense. Can a mage effect an area larger than 10 square miles? this is how big, in many people's mind, a hex is.

Well, can a fighter swing his sword 3 miles?

[turin]

multi-target, IMHO and in many others, makes no sense. Can a mage effect an area larger than 10 square miles? this is how big, in many people's mind, a hex is.

Well, can a fighter swing his sword 3 miles?

you might notice that the fighter goes INTO the enemy hex...
"don't mock what you don't understand" [1]

the mage, however, cannot shoot 3 different fireballs with every attack, and without doing that, it is impossible to hit 3 different people.


[1] a quote i made up...or heard somewhere...does it really matter?

[Elvish_Pillager]

Well, can a fighter swing his sword 3 miles?

you might notice that the fighter goes INTO the enemy hex...

Well, doens't shooting an arrow a few miles with a 60% chance of hitting seem a bit superhuman too?

the mage, however, cannot shoot 3 different fireballs with every attack, and without doing that, it is impossible to hit 3 different people.

And what do you know about magic?

[turin]

you might notice that the fighter goes INTO the enemy hex...

Well, doens't shooting an arrow a few miles with a 60% chance of hitting seem a bit superhuman too?

the mage, however, cannot shoot 3 different fireballs with every attack, and without doing that, it is impossible to hit 3 different people.

And what do you know about magic?

The archer also goes a bit in, just not as much.

I know enough about magic to know a relatively weak mage (its only lvl 2!) could not do what you want. a lvl 4, maybe...but not a lvl 2.

[Elvish_Pillager]

Well, doens't shooting an arrow a few miles with a 60% chance of hitting seem a bit superhuman too?
And what do you know about magic?

The archer also goes a bit in, just not as much.

I know enough about magic to know a relatively weak mage (its only lvl 2!) could not do what you want. a lvl 4, maybe...but not a lvl 2.

Archers don't go nearly far enough to be reasonable.

and I did say Archmages...

P.S. How many quotes do you have to do before it's too squashed up to read?

[turin]

The archer also goes a bit in, just not as much.

I know enough about magic to know a relatively weak mage (its only lvl 2!) could not do what you want. a lvl 4, maybe...but not a lvl 2.

Archers don't go nearly far enough to be reasonable.

and I did say Archmages...

P.S. How many quotes do you have to do before it's too squashed up to read?

It doesn't SHOW them going in, but they do.

Anyway, my main reason for being against this (although i haven't shown it here) is it would, IMHO, be overpowering while not being particularly interesting. The size of hex thing was just a side note.

P.S.: Lets find out!

[Elvish_Pillager]

Archers don't go nearly far enough to be reasonable.

and I did say Archmages...

P.S. How many quotes do you have to do before it's too squashed up to read?

It doesn't SHOW them going in, but they do.

Anyway, my main reason for being against this (although i haven't shown it here) is it would, IMHO, be overpowering while not being particularly interesting. The size of hex thing was just a side note.

P.S.: Lets find out!

Now that I'm done complaining about how huge the squares are, I'll complain about how small they are. If 6 turns are a day, and horsemen go 48 squares a day, and each hex is 3 miles across, then they go at 6 MPH. Not good for a horseman.

Not interesting? It would be a unique ability, since nothing else can hurt more than one enemy at a time.

P.S. Good idea.

[turin]

It doesn't SHOW them going in, but they do.

Anyway, my main reason for being against this (although i haven't shown it here) is it would, IMHO, be overpowering while not being particularly interesting. The size of hex thing was just a side note.

P.S.: Lets find out!

Now that I'm done complaining about how huge the squares are, I'll complain about how small they are. If 6 turns are a day, and horsemen go 48 squares a day, and each hex is 3 miles across, then they go at 6 MPH. Not good for a horseman.

Not interesting? It would be a unique ability, since nothing else can hurt more than one enemy at a time.

P.S. Good idea.

I agree, the hexes (not squares ) probably aren't big enough. but for the purposes of my demonstration, they are.

Adding a new way of dealing damage is not interesting, it just changes the game rules. having a way to deal damage that only one unit can use it not good, it is very bad.

P.S.: The text doesn't get smaller. But the lines get shorter and shorter...

[Elvish_Pillager]

Now that I'm done complaining about how huge the squares are, I'll complain about how small they are. If 6 turns are a day, and horsemen go 48 squares a day, and each hex is 3 miles across, then they go at 6 MPH. Not good for a horseman.

Not interesting? It would be a unique ability, since nothing else can hurt more than one enemy at a time.

P.S. Good idea.

I agree, the hexes (not squares ) probably aren't big enough. but for the purposes of my demonstration, they are.

Adding a new way of dealing damage is not interesting, it just changes the game rules. having a way to deal damage that only one unit can use it not good, it is very bad.

P.S.: The text doesn't get smaller. But the lines get shorter and shorter...

Big enough when you need them that way, small enough when you need them that way, hmm...

Please explain what's so bad about unique abilities. Shadows have them, Elvish Rangers have them, Archmages have them, even Horsemen have them.

P.S. Still, they are getting pretty short!

[turin]

I agree, the hexes (not squares ) probably aren't big enough. but for the purposes of my demonstration, they are.

Adding a new way of dealing damage is not interesting, it just changes the game rules. having a way to deal damage that only one unit can use it not good, it is very bad.

P.S.: The text doesn't get smaller. But the lines get shorter and shorter...

Big enough when you need them that way, small enough when you need them that way, hmm...

Please explain what's so bad about unique abilities. Shadows have them, Elvish Rangers have them, Archmages have them, even Horsemen have them.

P.S. Still, they are getting pretty short!

True.

Shadows, Elvish Rangers, Archmages and Horsemen don't have abilities that introduce new ways of moving or dealing damage or hiding. They just make them do more damage, make them move to more places or make them hide more.
Your idea introduces a whole new way of dealing damage - you can deal damage to two units at once! This is COMPLETELY different than any other unit!
And its not even that interesting. Just because it makes for wierd strategy doesn't mean its interesting.

[Elvish_Pillager]

Big enough when you need them that way, small enough when you need them that way, hmm...

Please explain what's so bad about unique abilities. Shadows have them, Elvish Rangers have them, Archmages have them, even Horsemen have them.

P.S. Still, they are getting pretty short!

True.

Shadows, Elvish Rangers, Archmages and Horsemen don't have abilities that introduce new ways of moving or dealing damage or hiding. They just make them do more damage, make them move to more places or make them hide more.
Your idea introduces a whole new way of dealing damage - you can deal damage to two units at once! This is COMPLETELY different than any other unit!
And its not even that interesting. Just because it makes for wierd strategy doesn't mean its interesting.

Hide more? It's not like anyone else hides. I'd say they introduce more than a whole new way of hiding-- They introduce the concept of hiding. That's a lot crazier than introducing a new way to do something.

Do you think Mages of Light are interesting? They sure have weird strategy. In fact, the whole game is about weird strategy. Leveling, for instance. That hardly exists in real life, but it is weird. It's in the game.

P.S. If you make your window less wide horizantally, it will squish up the text even more.

[quartex]

I see we've completely gone off from the orifinal topc if this thread of new types of terrains. I'm not sure if Lars cares, but if you guys really want to discuss attacking several opponents at once I'd suggest you create a new thread for that topic.

Going back to a previous topic in your rather lengthy discussion, I'd also suggets you stop arguing about the hex size, this is a fantasy game, we declare certain things to be the way they are becuase of realism, and then we cheerfully ignore realism a moment later. The actual reason the way things are the way they are is because it improves the game and the developers like it the way it is. That's not to say a feature can't change, but arguing that it isn't realistic isn't a good way to try to change the game.

And elvish pillager, I'm going to have to agree with turin on the point of being able to attack multiple units, it's something that probably won't happen in this game. All units, no matter what special abilities they have, can only attack one enemy at a time, and the enemy must be adjacent to them. Abilities that allow a unit to attack several hexes away, or attack several units at once are too powerful and break the strategy of the game. As cool as they seem some ideas just aren't going to fit in the current incaration of Wesnoth.


P.S. Putting on my mod hat I want to say that quoting each other back and forth may be funny to you, turin and ElvishPillager, but for the sake of everyone else, it would be nice if your posts didn't have so many endless quotes. They don't really serve a purpose and it just makes your discussion even harder to read.

[Elvish_Pillager]

I see we've completely gone off from the orifinal topc if this thread of new types of terrains. I'm not sure if Lars cares, but if you guys really want to discuss attacking several opponents at once I'd suggest you create a new thread for that topic.

Good idea. That way people will know what they're going to be looking at.

Going back to a previous topic in your rather lengthy discussion, I'd also suggets you stop arguing about the hex size, this is a fantasy game, we declare certain things to be the way they are becuase of realism, and then we cheerfully ignore realism a moment later. The actual reason the way things are the way they are is because it improves the game and the developers like it the way it is. That's not to say a feature can't change, but arguing that it isn't realistic isn't a good way to try to change the game.

It's obviously not realistic, and I don't want the game to change; I was just trying to say that the theoretical size of the hexes shouldn't be used to decide on anything important.

And elvish pillager, I'm going to have to agree with turin on the point of being able to attack multiple units, it's something that probably won't happen in this game. All units, no matter what special abilities they have, can only attack one enemy at a time, and the enemy must be adjacent to them. Abilities that allow a unit to attack several hexes away, or attack several units at once are too powerful and break the strategy of the game. As cool as they seem some ideas just aren't going to fit in the current incaration of Wesnoth.

All units can only move to squares within their movement range, and can be blocked by hostile terrain. See what I'm getting at? You can also see every unit on the map.

P.S. Putting on my mod hat I want to say that quoting each other back and forth may be funny to you, turin and ElvishPillager, but for the sake of everyone else, it would be nice if your posts didn't have so many endless quotes. They don't really serve a purpose and it just makes your discussion even harder to read.

Well, they could just go to the end and read all the posts at once. It seems easier that way, not harder.

[Dave]

I was just trying to say that the theoretical size of the hexes shouldn't be used to decide on anything important.

I concur.