Winds of Fate

[qubodup]

Hi, I'm translating the campaign and have a question about chapter 7:

...now that I have found a powerful ally in Lord Vanar of the far side, the days of Lady Dionli are nigh over. I need only complete a single small ritual for him, the details of which he shall provide to me after I gather the necessary elements.

What does "of the far side" mean here? Simply "far away" or "on the enemy side" (a spy)?

[name]

Hey! It is famous investigative journalist qudobup from Free Gamer.

What does "of the far side" mean here? Simply "far away" or "on the enemy side" (a spy)?

A bit of both... the "faerie world" is a transcendental realm like the "land of the dead" in Delfador's Memoirs. At some point in the past, the faerie world split into two sides, with each having a will of its own to some extent

Its "near side" is a beautiful and perplexing "dreamscape" which normally has the most influence over "faerie creatures" like elves, woses, forest spirits, wisps and others. So from the perspective of these creatures it is "nearer" to them.

Whereas its nightmarish far side is intentionally obscured by the near side so that its influence is usually weaker. But in the case of the ambitious elf who wrote this journal, she managed to overcome this barrier and greatly strengthen her connection to the far side of the faerie world.

[Antro]

Hi there!
A quick "translation" question:
I just sync from the git develop branch and it seems that the good old Reshan changed not only the name as Resha, but also ... gender ?

From a cave nearby I heard cries.
My friend Resha had happened upon a dishonored rogue hiding within.
It sought her death to keep secret its presence there.

It had cornered her.

And even Karron ? (Scenario 01)

It was <i>Karron</i> that dishonored herself by not regathering you.

My sanction is given.

[Lord-Knightmare]

Hi there!
A quick "translation" question:
I just sync from the git develop branch and it seems that the good old Reshan changed not only the name as Resha, but also ... gender ?

From a cave nearby I heard cries.
My friend Resha had happened upon a dishonored rogue hiding within.
It sought her death to keep secret its presence there.

It had cornered her.

And even Karron ? (Scenario 01)

It was <i>Karron</i> that dishonored herself by not regathering you.

My sanction is given.

Seems like it has. Resha and Karron are now female drakes.

[Antro]

Seems like it has. Resha and Karron are now female drakes.

Well... This could rise some ... issues/considerations:

1. I remember that in the Drake Society, the female drake was not involved in fight, only parental care and similar: something changed ?
2. In the units, drakes are only male. If now we can have female drake soldiers, some languages would need the female equivalent of unit name.
3. However, playing the campaign to check the translation, the new recruited drakes are only males... no female drake units. Maybe is casual, but is quite odd

[name]

1. I remember that in the Drake Society, the female drake was not involved in fight, only parental care and similar: something changed ?
2. In the units, drakes are only male. If now we can have female drake soldiers, some languages would need the female equivalent of unit name.
3. However, playing the campaign to check the translation, the new recruited drakes are only males... no female drake units. Maybe is casual, but is quite odd

1. The drake society on Morogor (in the time of this campaign) was facing immense population pressure, so putting females into the same high risk roles as males helped manage the size of the next generation. But then the population situation quickly reversed itself for those drakes which established themselves on the Great Continent, thus their females could return to nesting and small game hunting.

2. So no neuter grammar in these languages, not even for animals?

[Antro]

1. I remember that in the Drake Society, the female drake was not involved in fight, only parental care and similar: something changed ?
2. In the units, drakes are only male. If now we can have female drake soldiers, some languages would need the female equivalent of unit name.
3. However, playing the campaign to check the translation, the new recruited drakes are only males... no female drake units. Maybe is casual, but is quite odd

1. The drake society on Morogor (in the time of this campaign) was facing immense population pressure, so putting females into the same high risk roles as males helped manage the size of the next generation. But then the population situation quickly reversed itself for those drakes which established themselves on the Great Continent, thus their females could return to nesting and small game hunting.

2. So no neuter grammar in these languages, not even for animals?

Point 1 is fine for me, and reasonable. Still in need of female units name...
Point 2: Italian language has no neuter: only male and female. There are some other languages AFAIK that can use neuter: Russian, Ancient latin, Slavic languages, German. If I remember correct my knowledge of russian, they use neuter only for unanimated stuff: sky, sea, glass, cloud, sun, ..no live being.. It could be possible that some languages use the neuter not only for mechanical monsters, weapons, sky, sea, land, etc. etc but also for "drakes". In ancient latin, animal-animalis is neuter...

[Celtic_Minstrel]

their females could return to nesting and small game hunting.

It's hilarious that you seem to think this would happen so readily. If the population pressures forced female drakes into traditionally male roles on Morogor, the expectation would be that many of them continue to take on those roles even when the pressures are removed. It's not impossible that the situation would've reverted "back to tradition" again after hundreds of years, but it certainly wouldn't revert immediately.

[Pentarctagon]

I don't think I understand the issue. English doesn't have gendered names for a lot of things, so wouldn't this be handled here the same as it has been in other such situations?

[hermestrismi]

their females could return to nesting and small game hunting.

It's hilarious that you seem to think this would happen so readily. If the population pressures forced female drakes into traditionally male roles on Morogor, the expectation would be that many of them continue to take on those roles even when the pressures are removed. It's not impossible that the situation would've reverted "back to tradition" again after hundreds of years, but it certainly wouldn't revert immediately.

I agree with that. The gender roles will changed and it is hard to believe that the situation returns as it was before (I can take the effect of the first industrial revolution as example where the economic pressures leads to a radical change in the social gender roles) but this will change radically the wesnothian lore in too many campaigns so it s better to assume that those female leaders are just exceptional and not all females engaged in combat even with such cataclysmic event.
Even that or assume that Drakes names are the same for both males and females

[Antro]

I don't think I understand the issue. English doesn't have gendered names for a lot of things, so wouldn't this be handled here the same as it has been in other such situations?

Yes, of course with

• a review of the translation(s), now that we know that there are at least 2 ... female drake ? ladydrake ?
• add a female unit name for each drake unit, for example here Rehsa should be a "Dragonessa degli Uragani", not a "Drago degli Uragani".

  

  resha.png (97.87 KiB) Viewed 144862 times

• Not confident with the recruit system of drake faction, but I suspect that the "male" recruit is fixed somewhere in the source...

[name]

Point 1 is fine for me, and reasonable. Still in need of female units name...

Hmm, I suppose we might do the same thing for all drake units that is currently done for most naga units: gender=male,femaie Do you see any problems with how the Naga Fighter was translated into Italian?

There are some other languages AFAIK that can use neuter: Russian, Ancient latin

Would Classical Latin drake unit names look and sound any good to a (modern) Italian audience? Or just really strange?

[hermestrismi]

I don't think I understand the issue. English doesn't have gendered names for a lot of things, so wouldn't this be handled here the same as it has been in other such situations?

Yes, of course with

• a review of the translation(s), now that we know that there are at least 2 ... female drake ? ladydrake ?
• add a female unit name for each drake unit, for example here Rehsa should be a "Dragonessa degli Uragani", not a "Drago degli Uragani".resha.png
• Not confident with the recruit system of drake faction, but I suspect that the "male" recruit is fixed somewhere in the source...

Dragonessa oppure Draga? Just to know

[Antro]

Point 1 is fine for me, and reasonable. Still in need of female units name...

Hmm, I suppose we might do the same thing for all drake units that is currently done for most naga units: gender=male,femaie Do you see any problems with how the Naga Fighter was translated into Italian?

There are some other languages AFAIK that can use neuter: Russian, Ancient latin

Would Classical Latin drake unit names look and sound any good to a (modern) Italian audience? Or just really strange?

For italian, manage with the "naga approach" (or saurian) is fine.

Well, historically speaking, the Italian translation group choose to translate "drake" with "drago" and we adopted this convention for years. We could change,, of course, but it will involve a full review of almost all campaigns and I'm not so sure the italian community will be ... happy. I would prefer to stay with "drago" and "dragonessa"

P.S: AFAIK, ancient latin should be "draco". There was a discussion between italian translators if use this one, but we choose to stay with "drago"

[Antro]

Dragonessa oppure Draga? Just to know

Sorry, draga is not available...
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draga