Gathering information about Scepter of Fire Campaign

[ShadowOfHassen]

After finishing the edit/rewrite/polish for Northern Rebirth, I asked if there were any other campaigns I could edit/rewrite/polish. I was told that Scepter of Fire might need it done.

I wanted to post this to ask if anyone had any suggestions or ideas of anything that they wanted changed.

Also I might post a few questions here while I'm working on it. For example.

In Northern Rebirth in dwarves talked Scottish and at first glance they don't in Scepter of Fire. Should that be changed? For some of the people or all of them?

[octalot]

I had an idea that the tools of the Shorbear Clan were made using the volcanic forge, thus tying together plot holes about why the forge was so close to the Shorbears' home. #6554 has the discussion about the single line that was added.

I'd vote no to giving dwarves Scottish speech, as it would affect almost all the characters in the campaign. The player is playing through the eyes of dwarves, so the dwarves should all speak in the player's natural language.

[ShadowOfHassen]

So I did some more looking and the Scepter of fire Campaign is better edited than Northern Rebirth, however while the sentences are consistent some of the paragraphs don't seem to fit together and it seems to have writing styles that it sort of drops. I'll try to fix that.

This campaign is going to go slower because I'm going to do each scenario at a time and make sure its done before I go to the next.

One thing I'm wondering is, what can I do to make it easier for translators. I know about #po. comments but what should I put in them. Dialect, obviously but there are a few jokes which are pretty funny in english but might not work in other languages. Anything else I should #po?

Actually this might be slightly tricky with this campaign because Wesnoth isn't the only open source program that uses the story from scepter of fire. Wyrmsum does too, at least the poem part so I'll probably not touch that.

[holypaladin]

Being You I would:
- delete the new scenario added later ("Reaching the Runecrafter"). I know it may be an occasion to give more XP our team but gives absolutely nothing to the story.
- Develop the characters of Glildur (campaning shows that he can't be just an elwish commander), Baglur (as emerited soldier for sure he have many experiences that he wants to share), Thursagan (especially why he lived so far from dwarfish city, for me seems like a conflict with Durnstorn)
- Portaits for Krakrahs, Glildur and Glonoin
- In "Outriding the Outriders" Wesnothian post should have more units, as for now it looks like elves kills everyone on their way but stops at post where only the lieutentant stays
- who are dwarfish mercenaries in elvish army and why in that numbers? Elvish rebels are rather racists and their temporary aliance with Snorbear clan was rather an exception than a rule in relations with dwarves

[ShadowOfHassen]

holypaladin, those are very good ideas. However, if I delete Reaching the Rune crafter (which I think is equally bad) I think we'd have to add something else. Maybe split the next mission into 2 so that first they find Thursgan's house, then overnight there's a blizzard, and they have to fight their way back.

I might need help with Gildur, but I was planning to make Baglur a bit more of a teacher character with making him unkillable for more missions to have him teach the newbie Rugnur more information.

Thursgan probably deserves more information, perhaps the dwarves lore masters mentioning some of his other exploits? If people think it's a good Idea I think just have him be very eccentric and have he and Durstorn grow up at the same time and get on each other's nerves.

I was also planning on addling a bit more on Durstorn. And on Dwarves vs dwarves. I can probably explain the dwarvish mercenaries as because they really want that jewel of fire. Probaly need to make the jewel more important to the elves. (Think it's useful for the rebellion.

I agree with the portrats and will add that it'd be really cool if Krakrahs could have a unique sprite in game.

Unfortunately my art skill is none, and I know nothing about level design, for the portraits and the campaign tweak I'd need help. (Anybody want to?) I can reclor the existing dragon sprite to make it look unique for Krakrahs's sprite, but my art skill is very limited.

Also, I don't know how to get their attention, but it'd be great if the wesnothian loremasters (I think one of them on github was Nemara) would look this over and give their feedback.

[ShadowOfHassen]

So one other thing I noticed that's bad is Thursagan does not have his special magic hammer. His unit ought to have a more powerful hammer or at least mention that he has the hammer of Thursagan to keep continuity with the scenario of the same name

[gnombat]

His unit ought to have a more powerful hammer

I'm not sure if the Hammer of Thursagan is actually same hammer the unit uses in melee attacks.

Angarthing seems to suggest it's not:

The Hammer is a tool of crafting and making, not a weapon.

[ShadowOfHassen]

Fair enough, but it'll need to at least be mentioned.

[Celtic_Minstrel]

In Northern Rebirth in dwarves talked Scottish and at first glance they don't in Scepter of Fire. Should that be changed? For some of the people or all of them?

I agree with octalot on this one. Translation convention dictates that the primary viewpoint characters should not speak in dialect.

If anything, any non-dwarven characters should be given a dialect. (Not Scottish, though.)

there are a few jokes which are pretty funny in english but might not work in other languages.

I'm not sure how important it is to have a po comment on joke, though it certainly can't hurt. If the joke won't work in a particular language, it's the translator's job to come up with a different one that does.

Generally, I think I'd say to add po comments anywhere you're worried that someone might misinterpret the intent.

Actually this might be slightly tricky with this campaign because Wesnoth isn't the only open source program that uses the story from scepter of fire. Wyrmsum does too, at least the poem part so I'll probably not touch that.

What is this referring to?

So one other thing I noticed that's bad is Thursagan does not have his special magic hammer. His unit ought to have a more powerful hammer or at least mention that he has the hammer of Thursagan to keep continuity with the scenario of the same name

I'm not sure if the Hammer of Thursagan is actually same hammer the unit uses in melee attacks.

Angarthing seems to suggest it's not:

The Hammer is a tool of crafting and making, not a weapon.

I would say that's ambiguous at best. Even a tool of "crafting and making" can be used as a weapon, after all. Or to put it another way: just because it's not intended to be a weapon doesn't mean it can't be used as one.

But the fact that someone takes the time to say that it's not a weapon could mean that there is a… sentimental reason to not use it as a weapon.

[ShadowOfHassen]

What is this referring to?

This game: https://store.steampowered.com/app/370070/Wyrmsun/ it literally has scepter of fire stuff in it. They also reuse some of the sound effects from Wesnoth.

I agree with octalot on this one. Translation convention dictates that the primary viewpoint characters should not speak in dialect.

If anything, any non-dwarven characters should be given a dialect. (Not Scottish, though.)

Baglur speaks in a semi scottish which I'll keep. I might be able to make the elves sound light and flowy and maybe with the humans, but I warn you my accents in writing are limited to the ones I've read in Redwall and other Brain Jaques books, but if someone wants to help they can.

[Celtic_Minstrel]

Allow me to emphasize the "if anything" part. I'm not saying everyone should speak in dialect, but that if someone speaks in dialect it should be the non-dwarven characters.

I think just giving the elves a slight dialect would be fine, no need to do it with the humans (unless of course you want to).

[nemaara]

I also agree that not all of the main characters need accents/dialect. It would be okay to give some of them differing accents because dwarves are explicitly shown to be somewhat clan based and so it's not unreasonable to think different clans would talk a bit differently. I don't know what kind of accent we would give the elves, but perhaps they would sound overly formal to dwarves?

[ShadowOfHassen]

I don't know what kind of accent we would give the elves, but perhaps they would sound overly formal to dwarves?

Yes, not Shakespearean but maybe some shalls and no contractions. Stuff like that.

[egallager]

According to the "Prose Style" page on the wiki:

Elves should have the most refined, correct, and elaborate speech. Common elves should sound like human nobles, and noble elves like human orators and poets.

[ShadowOfHassen]

I have an idea for Gildur, although info like this would be given very sparsely in the campaign, but if the rebels are very xenophobic they'd be just as likely to turn on their own. Gildur got disgraced somehow and now is semi on the run. He needs to prove himself and get powerful enough to defend himself/ attack the bigger factions, and he needs to prove himself to his troops and is desperate (so he hires dwarves and such).