Scenario 15: The Lost General

[ElvishMystical0]

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Versions 1.12 to 1.16 Easy and Medium. This feedback specifically relates to version 1.16 Medium.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

Having played this more than once, and knowing it's a highly variable scenario I'd say it averages out at a 6.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Quite clear, find the lost General and defeat enemy leaders.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

The basic storyline and plot is sound. But just like the previous storyline and half scenario parts of it are just silly and ridiculous. I don't buy the loyal Ulfserker thing. Doesn't make sense.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

The biggest issue in this scenario is movement and positioning. Dwarves are fine because the scenario is in a cave, but your other units are slower. The whole getting a Merman to a whirlpool just to get a loyal Ulfserker for me is a bit of a fool's errand. You're moving a Merman through a cave for more than several turns to get to a whirlpool just to get this loyal Ulfserker which might sit in your recall list and kill a couple of units for you if you're lucky. It might kill an Orcish Crossbowman or Skeleton for you but is likely to get squashed by a Troll or shot to pieces by Bone Shooters in the next turn.

Then you have the other challenge of starting out with level 1 Dwarves and needing to kill level 3 enemy leaders - a Troll Warrior and a Death Knight (Lionel).

That flat terrain around that hole in the west of the cave is another issue because it seems to favour Orcs and Trolls to the detriment of Dwarves and your units. You've got to get your Dwarvish units round the edges and fight there letting the allied units take up slots, fighting from unfavourable terrain, and being killed by the Trolls and Orcs. You just need to keep the allied leader alive to win the ability to recruit Dwarvish Guardsmen. Some XP goes to them, but it's better than having to deal with level 2 Trolls and Orcs with level 1 Dwarves all by yourself.

Then you have the terrain around Lionel's keep. Please keep in mind that I've never had the earthquake trigger event because I've always managed to find the secret passage to Lionel's keep which are two narrow corridors four or five hexes in length. Sometimes you can set up a chokepoint with your Dwarvish and Mage units. All you need are Dwarvish Fighters and Mages. Mages are necessary because Lionel will recruit the odd Ghost and Ghosts will keep Dwarvish Fighters occupied for quite a few turns. Similarly with Ulfserkers. Ghost units are lethal to Ulfserkers because of drain. I've once had an encounter between an enemy Ghost and Ulfserker that lasted over 5 minutes years ago. It was pure masochism watching the HP of your Ulfserker drop almost point by point to death.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

I give this a 6-7. I'm not a fan of cave scenarios but this is a well designed scenario which lets you play Dwarves and takes you away from the monotony of playing Elves in forests usually against Orcs and Trolls. I'm learning to love Dwarvish Thunderers which I know have a fan base among players. They're good at what they do, once you learn how to use them, but for consistency I much prefer Elvish Archers and their advancements.

Oh while I'm on the subject I want to give a shoutout to all the people who do the art, the music, and the whole imagery of Wesnoth. The artwork is often amazing and the music is also epic. My favourite is the Knalgan Theme. I could listen to that all day. In fact let me bump this scenario up to an 8 for the times you get to listen to the Knalgan Theme.

Finally I have a question. Why do Dwarvish names often sound like prescription medications? For example... Upset stomach? Flatulence? Constipation? You need Durdursol. Get rid of a migraine headache instantly with Dulthrasin. This is something I keep wondering.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

No suggestions. It's fine as it is.

[Orek]

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

• Scenario 14 (Feedback page doesn't exist.)
  (1) Challenging (=Champion=Hardest) in 1.14.17 on permadeath
  (2) 9 (3rd most difficult = 21st easiest)
  ... [Difficult] 2, 16, 14, 4, 9, 6, 5b, 10, 13, 12, 23, 8, 7, 3, 15, 17, 19c, 22, 1, 20b, 11, 24, 18 [Easy]
  (3) Clear
  (4) Clear and interesting enough
  (5) A lot of trial and error + some math work were required to find ways to kill the Giant Spider safely and consistently.
  (6) 5 (12th most fun = 12th most boring)
  ... [Fun] 2, 1, 6, 9, 5b, 4, 16, 15, 23, 3, 12, 14, 10, 24, 13, 8, 7, 19c, 20b, 11, 17, 22, 18 [Boring]
  (7) This is more of a bug report, but a Gryphon is unintentionally added to the recall list when a dwarvish unit happens to be on (14, 23). This is probably because Kalenz, who is supposed to be on (14, 23), is pushed to (13, 23), and consequently, Gryphon, who is supposed to be on (13, 23), is pushed to (12, 22), but Gryphon is deleted only if it is on (13, 23). This happened in my Run 2.
  
  YouTube Link: Run 1 Run 2 Run 3
  Walkthrough: HttT walkthrough (hardest, permadeath, v1.14.17) + General campaign guides (Replays for all scenarios can be downloaded from here.)
  
  
• Senario 15
  (1) Challenging (=Champion=Hardest) in 1.14.17 on permadeath
  (2) 4 (15th most difficult = 9th easiest)
  ... [Difficult] 2, 16, 14, 4, 9, 6, 5b, 10, 13, 12, 23, 8, 7, 3, 15, 17, 19c, 22, 1, 20b, 11, 24, 18 [Easy]
  (3) Clear
  (4) Clear and interesting enough
  (5) Protecting the ally leader consistently was challenging.
  (6) 7 (8th most fun = 16th most boring)
  ... [Fun] 2, 1, 6, 9, 5b, 4, 16, 15, 23, 3, 12, 14, 10, 24, 13, 8, 7, 19c, 20b, 11, 17, 22, 18 [Boring]
  (7) None
  
  YouTube Link: Run 1 Run 2 Run 3
  Walkthrough: HttT walkthrough (hardest, permadeath, v1.14.17) + General campaign guides (Replays for all scenarios can be downloaded from here.)

[JL42]

Adding a comment here about the previous brief scenario (Plunging into the Darkness) since it doesn't have its own thread. That map is excellent in general as it introduces the cave environment and gives a strong feeling of quiet and moving into the unknown. In terms of the dialogue though, I feel like the dwarves give in and join up with the party way too easily. At first they're like "The Scepter of Fire? Are you serious? That's lunacy." And then Delfador says "yeah, for real, though if you come with us you're probably all gonna die," and the dwarven lord is like "oh, OK, I'll give you my best men." I think it would be more believable here if Delfador actually had to speechify a bit more and convince them why it's a viable quest whose time has come, and/or if the dwarven lord expressed some kind of motivation as well.

There's also an odd quirk here here in that a single normal (non-rider) gryphon randomly shows up in my recall list after this scenario, without any kind of explanation or announcement. The plot is that we are raising the young gryphons to become riders, so why do I now suddenly have an adult, non-rider gryphon available? And just one of them; you can't recruit any more. Needs to either be removed or add some kind of logical dialogue explanation.

As for "The Lost General" –

What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

v. 1.16.10
Lord / Challenging

How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5 to win; 7 to keep the ally alive. (Difficulty is probably higher if you are going into it blind, not knowing the layout or what lies ahead.)

How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Mostly clear. The whirlpool chamber is unexplained and kind of ridiculous, if that counts as an objective.

How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Some aspects were a bit confusing. First, the whole story with Lionel. I saw that others have commented about this above, so it's basically the same thing that I noticed. As the "finest general of Wesnoth" (under the old, good king), shouldn't he want to help us, not attack us? We're not the ones who trapped him down here. I get the impression that maybe the idea is he's been driven to madness or something – or perhaps he doesn't believe that Konrad is the heir – or maybe the undead just always attack the living regardless – but in any case this isn't really clarified in the game dialogue. Even at the end he says, "You are [my] foes ...." Why?

The second thing that bugs me is the sense of direction here. From the previous scenario we traveled toward the Eastern Tunnels. But Lionel says the scepter is "to the east ... back the way you came." That makes sense in one fashion, because the only way out of this map is back to the east, the way we came in. However, back the way we came is the dwarven doors and Relgorn's tribe, and that should be to the west, not to the east. To make it even more confusing, Geldar then says we should travel "beyond my citadel ... northeast of my keep." But, first of all, there isn't any passage northeast of his keep, and second, that conflicts with what Lionel said about going back the way we came. This isn't a huge deal or anything, but it seems like something needs to be sorted out here about which direction we are actually traveling. It's no good asking for directions if the directions don't make any sense ....

What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

The main difficulty is that enemy has higher-level units than you, so it requires some patience, making sure that you recruit enough troops, and using the terrain effectively. Also getting some units quickly into the ally's corridor to help keep him alive. This is one of those scenarios that is much easier once you've already played it and know the layout. Lots of fun in any case. I love playing with dwarves.

How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8

What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I found the whirlpool thing to be a bit obnoxious. Nobody in their right mind would recruit mermen in a cave. So once you see it, to investigate you either have to start over, or else backtrack all the way to the starting keep to get a merman (in which case, you might as well start over anyway). That part of the map could be just cut entirely – or else move it so that there is water right next to the starting keep, that you can see in the beginning. It could even be expanded if desired, so that there are several whirlpools that lead to randomized locations, one with treasure, one with enemies, one being a shortcut, etc. But it needs to be located where you can see it from the start.

I'd also recommend changing some of the dialogue as noted above, to clarify why the heck Lionel is attacking us and what direction we are traveling.

Finally, it would be good to notify the player that there is a reward for saving the ally. Having the help of his guardsmen is a massive advantage in future scenarios, and in the current dialogue it's not really obvious how precarious his situation is or why we should risk moving forward more quickly to protect him. This could be done when we first see the allied units – "If we can hurry forward and save Geldar, perhaps his people can provide us with further aid ...."

---------------
About the Overall Campaign:

The maps and storyline here are well-made and polished, though not as completely epic as some of the other campaigns. I like that it is lengthy, giving you time to develop your army, and gradually introduces many different terrains and unit types. This seems like a great beginner campaign since it's fairly easy and the early scenarios are framed as a kind of mentoring environment for the young hero. (However, it's a bit strange that some of the basic dialogue tips, like "hey, loyal units don't require upkeep!" are just now arriving, after I've already played through several previous campaigns without that advice.) There are some glitches that can come up in the Scepter of Fire scenario, and some of the princess-related dialogue around scenarios 17–21 felt a bit confusing and unbelievable (more specific comments in the relevant threads). This campaign is very close to full marks, but due to those few lingering issues and the lack of any real epic blow-you-away maps I'm going to rate it 4 out of 5.