In regards to flying units:
Moderator: Forum Moderators
I think slightly more interesting defences (60% on hills, 40% on all water terrains and in cave) would be interesting, but I also think that the basically constant defence of the gryphon is kind of important... it'd be best to not give them <=30% or >=70% in any terrains.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
- Doc Paterson
- Drake Cartographer
- Posts: 1973
- Joined: February 21st, 2005, 9:37 pm
- Location: Kazakh
- Contact:
JW, about the L1> L2 gryphon upgrade:
That's actually something that I've been thinking about for some time.
We recently (a few days ago) committed a change that made the L2 gryphon 15-2.
We don't want to make it too much better though, and this is largely due to the amplification effect of its massive movement (which increases by 2).
And as for it being difficult to hit-
Consider that its body is essentially that of a lion, and is likely gifted with all of the speed, power and agility of the "big cat" family. Add to that the ability to move on a vertical axis, and the potential for the wings to be used to enhance dodging/movement (a leap to the side, supplemented with a wing-push, would be very fast indeed). Add to that the godlike vision and senses of an eagle, and you have a unit that would surely be difficult to land a solid blow on, regardless of its somewhat larger size.
That's actually something that I've been thinking about for some time.
We recently (a few days ago) committed a change that made the L2 gryphon 15-2.
We don't want to make it too much better though, and this is largely due to the amplification effect of its massive movement (which increases by 2).
And as for it being difficult to hit-
Consider that its body is essentially that of a lion, and is likely gifted with all of the speed, power and agility of the "big cat" family. Add to that the ability to move on a vertical axis, and the potential for the wings to be used to enhance dodging/movement (a leap to the side, supplemented with a wing-push, would be very fast indeed). Add to that the godlike vision and senses of an eagle, and you have a unit that would surely be difficult to land a solid blow on, regardless of its somewhat larger size.
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses. -Nosebane, Sorcerer Supreme
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses. -Nosebane, Sorcerer Supreme
The sprite doesn't sell me on that idea. :pDoc Paterson wrote: And as for it being difficult to hit-
Consider that its body is essentially that of a lion, and is likely gifted with all of the speed, power and agility of the "big cat" family. Add to that the ability to move on a vertical axis, and the potential for the wings to be used to enhance dodging/movement (a leap to the side, supplemented with a wing-push, would be very fast indeed). Add to that the godlike vision and senses of an eagle, and you have a unit that would surely be difficult to land a solid blow on, regardless of its somewhat larger size.
Also, I'm glad to hear about the upgrade. I always hated doubling my opponents xp for +2 movement. I probably still will, but the extra +1dmg will be a little nicer. I always assumed the lvl2 was kindof a trade-off for having such a good lvl1 unit. That and it's massive recruit cost.
- Doc Paterson
- Drake Cartographer
- Posts: 1973
- Joined: February 21st, 2005, 9:37 pm
- Location: Kazakh
- Contact:
I hear you on that, my brother.JW wrote:The sprite doesn't sell me on that idea. :pDoc Paterson wrote: And as for it being difficult to hit-
Consider that its body is essentially that of a lion, and is likely gifted with all of the speed, power and agility of the "big cat" family. Add to that the ability to move on a vertical axis, and the potential for the wings to be used to enhance dodging/movement (a leap to the side, supplemented with a wing-push, would be very fast indeed). Add to that the godlike vision and senses of an eagle, and you have a unit that would surely be difficult to land a solid blow on, regardless of its somewhat larger size.
Chubby-Chicken Gryphon isn't exactly my cup of tea either.
Nevertheless, I think the core concept of what a gryphon is supposed to be is represented pretty well, stat-wise.
As for the L2 gryphon, I'm now content with its power-level....You have to remember that in addition to the +2 movement, the HP increase is really quite large.
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses. -Nosebane, Sorcerer Supreme
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses. -Nosebane, Sorcerer Supreme
-
- Posts: 99
- Joined: April 14th, 2005, 2:32 pm
- Location: Blacksburg, VA, USA
I don't know. Flying units and particularly gryphons seem to me to be very strong at the moment - they have extraordinary mobility even compared to units that are pretty weak in exchange for their mobility (like elvish scouts), above average defense nearly everwhere, and on top of that gryphons still have a strong attack for their level and plenty of hp. The ability to use their fast movement to concentrate a lot of force at any desired place and time and/or flank and surround units is very powerful, and the ability to occupy one or two bad defensive terrain spots with flyers while putting your conventional units on better terrain can be quite strong too. I think any general improvement to flyers would probably make them too good.
Changing their defenses to be something like +10% vs melee, -10% vs ranged would be interesting, but possibly too powerful - retaliation against them is always melee, and they have extraordinary ability to be the attacker in most of their fights and to fight only the units they choose to fight.
Changing their defenses to be something like +10% vs melee, -10% vs ranged would be interesting, but possibly too powerful - retaliation against them is always melee, and they have extraordinary ability to be the attacker in most of their fights and to fight only the units they choose to fight.
-
- Moderator Emeritus
- Posts: 2232
- Joined: March 26th, 2004, 10:58 pm
- Location: New York, New York
I very much like Dave's idea, and have put some thought into it. I would propose the following ability text:
1. Magical attacks could easily be interpreted as being "overriding", as this refers to defence rather than chance to hit.
2. It would apply on defence only, lessening a possibility huge advantage.
3. The griffon could still have varying defence ratings on different terrain- I'd suggest something like 30% on grassland and 60% on mountains. These defences would apply when it attacks (so you still have to choose terrain wisely) and when attacked by ranged attackers (so a griffon can still seek shelter on a mountain peak).
We would also have to put some thought into what other units would have this ability. Vampire Bats seem a prime possibility - how would this affect Undead balance?
Would ghosts have it, or do they "float"? The Shyde "floats", right?
All in all, I believe that this would add considerable variety to the use of griffons, which are presently, well, a little dull to play with, even if they are quite powerful.
This text would offer a few advantages:Flying
When defending, this unit has at least 60% defence against melee attacks, regardless of terrain.
1. Magical attacks could easily be interpreted as being "overriding", as this refers to defence rather than chance to hit.
2. It would apply on defence only, lessening a possibility huge advantage.
3. The griffon could still have varying defence ratings on different terrain- I'd suggest something like 30% on grassland and 60% on mountains. These defences would apply when it attacks (so you still have to choose terrain wisely) and when attacked by ranged attackers (so a griffon can still seek shelter on a mountain peak).
We would also have to put some thought into what other units would have this ability. Vampire Bats seem a prime possibility - how would this affect Undead balance?
Would ghosts have it, or do they "float"? The Shyde "floats", right?
All in all, I believe that this would add considerable variety to the use of griffons, which are presently, well, a little dull to play with, even if they are quite powerful.
"Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry