Winds of Fate

[Celtic_Minstrel]

P.S: AFAIK, ancient latin should be "draco". There was a discussion between italian translators if use this one, but we choose to stay with "drago"

The word "draco" didn't originally mean a dragon, especially not one like the modern conception of a Western dragon. It comes originally from Greek, where it referred to a large snake such as a python. In Ancient Latin it still retained that meaning, so I wouldn't consider it a good translation for "drake" or "dragon" if translating to Ancient Latin. The word did shift over time though, so it's probably appropriate if translating to Vulgar or Ecclesiastical Latin.

It's also true though that you likely won't really find an appropriate word for "dragon" in Ancient Latin. If I were doing it I'd probably use "draco" as a base and add an adjective or (if that exists in Latin) an augmentative to adjust the meaning.

Hmm, I suppose we might do the same thing for all drake units that is currently done for most naga units: gender=male,femaie Do you see any problems with how the Naga Fighter was translated into Italian?

The code gender=male,female means that recruited units will have their gender randomized. While it's fine to do that, I'm pretty sure it won't solve the translation problem. For that I think all that's needed is female_name=_"female^Drake"? The only thing I'm not quite sure of is, does setting gender=female on a unit that has no female variation and no gender=male,female actually set the gender to female, or is it ignored on the grounds that the unit doesn't support a female gender?

Would Classical Latin drake unit names look and sound any good to a (modern) Italian audience? Or just really strange?

This seems like a terrible idea to me…

[name]

For italian, manage with the "naga approach" (or saurian) is fine.

I can try this approach first and see if it does not spark a controversy or technical limitation of some kind.

We could change,, of course, but it will involve a full review of almost all campaigns and I'm not so sure the italian community will be ... happy.

I believe I can give you exact details of each place where drakes are mentioned in the campaigns, since drakes make so few appearances. Would that help much?

If I were doing it I'd probably use "draco" as a base and add an adjective or (if that exists in Latin) an augmentative to adjust the meaning.

The project's Latin translation team chose "Draculus" (which I think means "little dragon" or "dragonlet").

For that I think all that's needed is female_name=_"female^Drake"?

This is the syntax currently used by the naga units:

Code: Select all

[female]
    name= _ "Nagini Fighter"
    gender=female
[/female]

Is it out of date? There is a bug where the naga sprite appears duplicated, side by side, in the help. I believe it is trying to show the sprite for each gender but since they both use the same sprite, it just shows this one sprite twice.

[Antro]

We could change,, of course, but it will involve a full review of almost all campaigns and I'm not so sure the italian community will be ... happy.

I believe I can give you exact details of each place where drakes are mentioned in the campaigns, since drakes make so few appearances. Would that help much?

Frankly speaking, "drake" has no meaning in Italian, and, to be purist, italian alphabet has no K,J,W,X,Y letters...
I'm quite confident that "drago" is the most correct and accepted translation. If we could have the unit names with female transcription, I'll transate, otherwise, we'll play with she-drakes with male ranks. We could also use the approach that in drake army there is no distinction between male and female, so the ranks are the same for all the units.

For that I think all that's needed is female_name=_"female^Drake"?

Not only for Drake, but also for unit names
female^Drake Arbiter
female^Armageddon Drake
Burner
Clasher
Enforcer
:
:

[Celtic_Minstrel]

If I were doing it I'd probably use "draco" as a base and add an adjective or (if that exists in Latin) an augmentative to adjust the meaning.

The project's Latin translation team chose "Draculus" (which I think means "little dragon" or "dragonlet").

Yeah… applying a diminutive makes sense for "drake".

For that I think all that's needed is female_name=_"female^Drake"?

This is the syntax currently used by the naga units:

Code: Select all

[female]
    name= _ "Nagini Fighter"
    gender=female
[/female]

Is it out of date? There is a bug where the naga sprite appears duplicated, side by side, in the help. I believe it is trying to show the sprite for each gender but since they both use the same sprite, it just shows this one sprite twice.

Hmm, but doesn't that make random recruits also be potentially female? Or is that the goal anyway? The translation issue doesn't necessarily require allowing recruits to be female.

Oh, and you do need female_name as well, but that goes in the race definition.

[qubodup]

What does "of the far side" mean here? Simply "far away" or "on the enemy side" (a spy)?

A bit of both... the "faerie world" is a transcendental realm like the "land of the dead" in Delfador's Memoirs. At some point in the past, the faerie world split into two sides, with each having a will of its own to some extent

Its "near side" is a beautiful and perplexing "dreamscape" which normally has the most influence over "faerie creatures" like elves, woses, forest spirits, wisps and others. So from the perspective of these creatures it is "nearer" to them.

Whereas its nightmarish far side is intentionally obscured by the near side so that its influence is usually weaker. But in the case of the ambitious elf who wrote this journal, she managed to overcome this barrier and greatly strengthen her connection to the far side of the faerie world.

Thank you, name, that helped me finalizing the relevant translations.

[name]

Hmm, but doesn't that make random recruits also be potentially female? Or is that the goal anyway? The translation issue doesn't necessarily require allowing recruits to be female.

My guess is recruit gender randomization would still need gender=male,female in order to work. Which is not really the goal but it can be a goal.

Oh, and you do need female_name as well, but that goes in the race definition.

I think that already exists? Interestingly, there is also a name list and a name generator specifically for female drakes.

Thank you, name, that helped me finalizing the relevant translations.

No problem, and thank you for helping us with the translations.

[Celtic_Minstrel]

Hmm, but doesn't that make random recruits also be potentially female? Or is that the goal anyway? The translation issue doesn't necessarily require allowing recruits to be female.

My guess is recruit gender randomization would still need gender=male,female in order to work. Which is not really the goal but it can be a goal.

I'm pretty sure that's the key that enables recruit gender randomization. My point is that we can skip probably define a female variation but not enable recruit randomization if we want. I'm just not 100% sure it works.

[octalot]

I'm puzzled by Karron's part in the epilogue.

Spoiler:

At this point, Morogor is presumably ruled by factions who killed Vladnir and forced many flights, including Karron's, to flee. If she flies west, who on Morogor is going to allow her to rest and collect enough provisions there to fly to the Green Isle? Who's going to join the army of an already twice exiled leader?

The Green Isle itself has not just rapidly-multiplying orcs and some of the Lich Lords, but also whatever else has come through the gates from the far-west lands, which is suggested in TRoW to be even worse. Karron's own flight has just been bested by Gorlack's, and the two flights together had a tough fight against just the Elensefar part of TRoW's refugees, who in turn had to flee the Green Isle. It all suggests that Karron is going to be overwhelmed even if she gets there.

The other part is that "less is more". Currently WoF is putting in canon that the drakes take the Green Isle, but does it add anything to the story to do more than send Karron west, and assume she settles on the naga island?

[WLFobe]

So I was looking to see which campaigns were available in 1.1.18, and Winds of Fate was not listed. But it was still in my list of campaign choices. What gives?

If I wanted to remove it (I don't) I can't because it isn't listed in the add-ons.

[Pentarctagon]

Because it's in mainline now.

[redbeard2]

I'm puzzled by Karron's part in the epilogue.

Spoiler:

At this point, Morogor is presumably ruled by factions who killed Vladnir and forced many flights, including Karron's, to flee. If she flies west, who on Morogor is going to allow her to rest and collect enough provisions there to fly to the Green Isle? Who's going to join the army of an already twice exiled leader?

The Green Isle itself has not just rapidly-multiplying orcs and some of the Lich Lords, but also whatever else has come through the gates from the far-west lands, which is suggested in TRoW to be even worse. Karron's own flight has just been bested by Gorlack's, and the two flights together had a tough fight against just the Elensefar part of TRoW's refugees, who in turn had to flee the Green Isle. It all suggests that Karron is going to be overwhelmed even if she gets there.

The other part is that "less is more". Currently WoF is putting in canon that the drakes take the Green Isle, but does it add anything to the story to do more than send Karron west, and assume she settles on the naga island?

I asked a similar question elsewhere in the forums, the writer gave this response. I’m working on a campeón of the second invasion, so the question was very relevant to me:

The idea is that the drakes actually do arrive on the Green Isle before the second orcish invasion fleet departs for the Great Continent in search of the Ruby of Fire. But these drakes employ indirect, opportunistic, long game strategies; essentially the opposite of what they ultimately did with their invasion of the Great Continent in the east. This is because they are lead by (a more experienced) Karron, who came around to embrace glider pragmatism and knowledge, after finally being humbled by the three decisive (and in at least one case, very costly) defeats she suffered during the events of Winds of Fate.

So instead of an immediate head on clash with the orcs, the drakes might arrive quietly and stick to the hard to reach badlands (like the swamps and high mountains). Maybe spending the first year just observing the situation on the Green Isle - which would likely be that the orcs are numerous but have over exploited the island's finite resources and are fighting each other for what's left. Armed with enough knowledge, they could engage in some effective guerrilla warfare to help motivate the orcs to move on (to the Great Continent). Like temporarily supporting the weaker orcish clans against the stronger ones, burning crops, freeing human slaves, forming an alliance with the mermish under Lord Typhon and the woses of The Oldwood, perhaps even (with the help of a human silver mage) switching the lich gates from a connection to the orcish homeland to a connection with the homelands of the orc's enemies in the distant west.

In other words, this time the drakes would stick to the general strategy that Resha had originally advocated for using on the Great Continent, which would likely have worked out much better for the drakes. For example, instead of drakes surprise attacking the humans of the fledgling Kingdom of Wesnoth (in WoF S6: Landfall), they might have allied with King Haldric in exchange for a land grant of the western coastal region of Wesnoth. By granting that region to the drakes, Haldric would be putting a further barrier between his endangered people and the second orcish invasion from the ocean which he foresaw, as well as a barrier against the backstabbing which Lady Jessene had discovered the elves of Wesmere were planning.