Era of Chaos v1.4.0 for Wesnoth 1.12 and 1.13

[IPS]

Thanks! I've had a look and they are indeed problems that will be fixed. The Eth. Orb has same sprites for all 3 levels which is not ideal...
The shapeshifter I've not actually tested in combat but perusing the code shows that the physical endurance ability instantly regens half of all damage taken. That's effectively 50% resis to all. I'm unsure why it was made an ability instead of just giving it those resis. More investigation required! Offhand I'd guess lowering its HP would make it easier to kill.

Physical Endurance is a very powerful special, but not as strong as +250% between 5 ressists, I guess it's why they considered making a special instead of purely stats (as said, it has as cons that a heavy blow that last hit it before it heals is most effective againist this unit) , as well as in highly modded games as in Orocia / RPG's that huge mount of ressistances is more problematic the more bonuses they have.

But yeah, the other problem is that 7-3 backstab is really high base damage for a backstab (rogue is 6-3 , shadow is 8-3 , both are skirmishers) but demon shapeshifter do also have 7-2 arcane magical on ranged which is a tons as secondary weapon. It also has skirmisher and nearly no weaknesses and still +10% on all terrain defenses which all factors combined together is a troublemaker unit in terms of balance.

So yeah, shapeshifter is defenetively OP in multiple aspects.

Other unit that also makes balance troubles and absurd benefit on leveling is lv2 imp to lv3 imp , the stat gain , special and gain of new features is huge. You will understand when you compare that 7-4 with 9-4 +drains and also 6-3 ranged with poison. Never seen an upgrade that is that powerful in any other era appart of Mu to Um lol , I do personally think that lv3 and lv4 would be better with -1 less strike on ranged, and also lv4 having bit smaller melee damage because to be honest, it's quite exagerated considering it has drains also.

But in EOC there are some others blatant Overpowereds which all in Ageless have been nerfed somehow. If you have some free time you can compare https://units.wesnoth.org/1.16 and realize the differences between EOC and AE versions.

[Atreides]

1.7.3 uploaded, changes to chaos hound line to make it a specialized wounded unit assassin (as implied by its desc.) also sentry drone gets slightly better "base type terrain" defense (it already has very high fly unit like defenses). New ability to reduce drone costs on hold for now. Also some typo fixes and missing halos added back in.

Shapeshifters put through a few tests vs other random L2 units and it didn't seem especially tough. As IPS mentioned a L2 wose is pretty good at killing it. : ) I noticed that as I suspected from the code that it rounds UP healing which means odd damage is especially ineffective and 1 damage is totally useless vs it. I'll probably change it to rounding down. I can imagine that in Orocia it could quickly become invulnerable with bonus resists but that's a flaw in Orocia since it has no cap on resistance gains and can affect any unit with luck. (10 consecutive -10 to one resist group is very unlikely but technically possible)

I also ran several neutral (no human) tests of EoC and the factions seem kinda balanced. Except the Aragwaithi seemed suspiciously weak, maybe... more testing required... : )

[IPS]

1.7.3 uploaded, changes to chaos hound line to make it a specialized wounded unit assassin (as implied by its desc.) also sentry drone gets slightly better "base type terrain" defense (it already has very high fly unit like defenses). New ability to reduce drone costs on hold for now. Also some typo fixes and missing halos added back in.

Shapeshifters put through a few tests vs other random L2 units and it didn't seem especially tough. As IPS mentioned a L2 wose is pretty good at killing it. : ) I noticed that as I suspected from the code that it rounds UP healing which means odd damage is especially ineffective and 1 damage is totally useless vs it. I'll probably change it to rounding down. I can imagine that in Orocia it could quickly become invulnerable with bonus resists but that's a flaw in Orocia since it has no cap on resistance gains and can affect any unit with luck. (10 consecutive -10 to one resist group is very unlikely but technically possible)

I also ran several neutral (no human) tests of EoC and the factions seem kinda balanced. Except the Aragwaithi seemed suspiciously weak, maybe... more testing required... : )

Arawaigthy are low base HP and they depend in accepting favorable trades of damage as drakes does because otherwise they will die quickly. In this aspect they're a combination of both drakes and rebels. I think some of their XP's are way too high which in higher leveled matches makes them underperform. Second advise about arawaighty is that archer is a much better unit than their lv1 swordsmen , as taking much fewer damage is a much better deal than being 6-4 on melee (which is similar to Invader's damage) but Chaos Invader has more HP and sligt fire ressistance.

But on a quick analysis, there are some issues that could explain why arawaighty are quite weak.
- Lv2 Wizards are 31 HP, even if they have full damage (even better melee) than lv2 mages, their super low HP makes them glass cannon units.
- Lv2 Wizards requires massive 132 XP to get lv3, while red mage requires only 100 XP. For a ressulting unit with only 40 HP (Lv2 HP...)
- Lv2 Longswordsman requires quite much 88 XP, and when getting to lv3 he only gains 6 HP on promotion. Seems he needs more HP in lv3.
- Lv3 Shield Guard as well gains quite few HP's on level promotion.
- Lv1 Eagle Rider is overpriced, is only 18 damage in defense while gryphon Rider is 24 damages even in defense. Requires lower pricing for like 21g or even 20g to work well.

Other things you haven't consider on demons shifters.
- They become OP as something else supports them (maybe in a 2vs2 test of mirrored you will see a much more realistic ressult).
- On bottleknecks situations, and over villages, this unit is annoying to deal with.
- If used by human and this uses the attack that trades best damages) and fight over 60/70% defense this unit will get better performance than if both dueler units are on flat.
Exactly as you said, problem are in modded games as Orocia or similar, particularly good for XP mod.

Other random stuff
- Lv3 lashing Blade is blatantly Overpowered, 14-3 melee of precision (80%) and skirmisher. In ageless I've cutted their accuracy to 50% marskman and they're still scary units and seems fair enough to me.
- Lv3 Gutwrencher Imp gains massive bonuses in its lv3 , would recommend to just lower by 1 its ranged strikes. Drains on melee, quite tanky. Fortunately on lv4 seems their damage got lowered from 14-4 to 12-4 in this era which is good.
- Lv3 Chaos Sharpshooter is bit overpowered, in Ageless I've lowered they 25-2 marksman to 22-2 marksman and they're fine.
- Lv2 and Lv3 invaders are quite bad (in Extended Era ageless's , I've increasd a bit their ressistances, but that was not included as Chaos Era was added after I did that to EE invaders). Idea was also making a bit more viable these lv2 and lv3 axes knigts at making them bit more ressistant to blade/impact (but even lower than loy swordsman).
- Why do lv2 Sentry drones have +steadfast with only weaknesses? still with the addition of ranged it makes them pretty scary unit.
- Lv2 Assault Drones damages are overpowered lol, 11-4 ranged on a lv2... it also has lv3 longbowman melee and also optional poison melee.
- Lv2 Rayblade is underpowered, too low HP and no 6 movement bonus.
- Lv3 Stormblade is defenetively underpowered as well.

I will be posting things concerning to other factions later, but most balance irregularities are at Chaos faction (which ofc is the most original faction from that era and that naturally was more probable to happen) as well arawaight having even bad bases in theory (it doesn't even need to be tested to you reaize they will do bad lol) which explains why they depend on XP mod to do well lol.

[RHH]

I remember there was a level 4 chaos invader in the Invasion from the Unknown. It appears mod does not have him. Could he be added?

[RHH]

- Lv3 lashing Blade is blatantly Overpowered, 14-3 melee of precision (80%) and skirmisher. In ageless I've cutted their accuracy to 50% marskman and they're still scary units and seems fair enough to me.
- Lv3 Gutwrencher Imp gains massive bonuses in its lv3 , would recommend to just lower by 1 its ranged strikes. Drains on melee, quite tanky. Fortunately on lv4 seems their damage got lowered from 14-4 to 12-4 in this era which is good.
- Lv3 Chaos Sharpshooter is bit overpowered, in Ageless I've lowered they 25-2 marksman to 22-2 marksman and they're fine.
- Lv2 and Lv3 invaders are quite bad (in Extended Era ageless's , I've increasd a bit their ressistances, but that was not included as Chaos Era was added after I did that to EE invaders). Idea was also making a bit more viable these lv2 and lv3 axes knigts at making them bit more ressistant to blade/impact (but even lower than loy swordsman).
- Why do lv2 Sentry drones have +steadfast with only weaknesses? still with the addition of ranged it makes them pretty scary unit.
- Lv2 Assault Drones damages are overpowered lol, 11-4 ranged on a lv2... it also has lv3 longbowman melee and also optional poison melee.
- Lv2 Rayblade is underpowered, too low HP and no 6 movement bonus.
- Lv3 Stormblade is defenetively underpowered as well.

- In-game description states that precision gives only 50% minimal chance to hit.
- I don't know about imps, they have so nasty trait randomness. I've never leveled up them higher than level 2.
- Sentry drones no longer have steadfast. They received +10% defence in villages, castles and caves. Might still not be enough to make it comparable to assault drones but as IPS mentioned, assault drones might nerfed a bit too.
- Quite agree on rayblade branch, I've never chosen them over protectors.

Another idea for sentry drones: as they are protecting offspring, they could have something like "resistance leadership" for shaxthals, i.e. increasing some resistances (or it might be defence) of adjacent shaxthals of lower levels.

I remember there was a level 4 chaos invader in the Invasion from the Unknown. It appears mod does not have him. Could he be added?

Also I found out there is an unused unit from the Invasion from the Unknown which would fit into imps lineup: minor imp of 0th level. This would also make chaos invoker's leadership something more than a mere footnote.

[Ravana]

I have discussed the imp power issue, and it was that way because of campaign.

[Lord-Knightmare]

Except the Aragwaithi seemed suspiciously weak, maybe... more testing required... : )

Arawaigthy are low base HP and they depend in accepting favorable trades of damage as drakes does because otherwise they will die quickly. In this aspect they're a combination of both drakes and rebels. I think some of their XP's are way too high which in higher leveled matches makes them underperform. Second advise about arawaighty is that archer is a much better unit than their lv1 swordsmen , as taking much fewer damage is a much better deal than being 6-4 on melee (which is similar to Invader's damage) but Chaos Invader has more HP and sligt fire ressistance.

I think I remember the reason being that it was for campaign-purposes since the baseline stats were from IftU and it made the faction units have high XP requirements due to the campaign specifications and some other things. These carried over to the era too as it was intended to be used as a dependency for several post-Fall campaign projects (none of which developed in the end)

[Atreides]

Thank you for all the feedback. I'll have another (closer) look at the shapeshifter for sure. The imps I haven't checked out yet. I'm sure the advancement can be brought in line fairly easily. For the Arag. perhaps a recosting of xp/gold is in order. Oh and cool idea for the sentry drone, resistance leadership.

[Atreides]

1.7.4 uploaded. New ethereal orb line sprites installed. Balance changes implemented. Testing seems to indicate their ok but I'm sure there's always room for improvement.

Next on TODO list is Aragwaithi costs revision and then all the other suggestions for balance. Thanks IPS!

RHH yes I saw the level 0 minor imp while working on the imps. I'm not sure how I'd fit it in though. If it is added into the regular faction then you have a L0 imp and the L1 imp that it advances to both recruitable. That always seems odd to me. The change to the recruit of the L0 instead is rather drastic but perhaps that could be the way to go? It has some appeal since the imps are supposed to start small and be pesty cannon-fodder. The L1 imp would be recruitable in the AoH still. As for the level 4 invader from the IftU I am not familiar with it, don't have that campaign. I can extract that unit and look it over though.

[RHH]

RHH yes I saw the level 0 minor imp while working on the imps. I'm not sure how I'd fit it in though. If it is added into the regular faction then you have a L0 imp and the L1 imp that it advances to both recruitable. That always seems odd to me. The change to the recruit of the L0 instead is rather drastic but perhaps that could be the way to go? It has some appeal since the imps are supposed to start small and be pesty cannon-fodder. The L1 imp would be recruitable in the AoH still. As for the level 4 invader from the IftU I am not familiar with it, don't have that campaign. I can extract that unit and look it over though.

I think any solution regarding imps would be reasonable (include both or replace L1 with L0).

L4 invader is called Chaos Hell Overlord in game files of IftU (or just Overlord in game). Would be a nice addition to the mod.

[Atreides]

RHH yes I saw the level 0 minor imp while working on the imps. I'm not sure how I'd fit it in though. If it is added into the regular faction then you have a L0 imp and the L1 imp that it advances to both recruitable. That always seems odd to me. The change to the recruit of the L0 instead is rather drastic but perhaps that could be the way to go? It has some appeal since the imps are supposed to start small and be pesty cannon-fodder. The L1 imp would be recruitable in the AoH still. As for the level 4 invader from the IftU I am not familiar with it, don't have that campaign. I can extract that unit and look it over though.

I think any solution regarding imps would be reasonable (include both or replace L1 with L0).

L4 invader is called Chaos Hell Overlord in game files of IftU (or just Overlord in game). Would be a nice addition to the mod.

We can try out the L0 imp in place of the L1 and see how it works out. I like the idea that it gives that L1 with leadership something to do!

I did have a look at that Overlord. Nothing advances to it! I'd guessed maybe the Hell Guardian could but it fits very badly so I checked the Razerman and oddly it does fit. The mounted undead var would have to go since the sprite is a footsoldier and possibly the 6 MP needs to be -1. Looks OK so it goes onto the TODO list.

[RHH]

I did have a look at that Overlord. Nothing advances to it! I'd guessed maybe the Hell Guardian could but it fits very badly so I checked the Razerman and oddly it does fit.

Yes, you are right, Overlord is definitely a sword-axeman invader upgrade, not a defensive one.

Not so important thing, just a bit of aesthetics: chaos bowman and all his upgrades have axe depicted on their sprite. However their ability shows sword and is named respectively. It would be more consistent if their attack would depict axe too.

[Atreides]

I did have a look at that Overlord. Nothing advances to it! I'd guessed maybe the Hell Guardian could but it fits very badly so I checked the Razerman and oddly it does fit.

Yes, you are right, Overlord is definitely a sword-axeman invader upgrade, not a defensive one.

Not so important thing, just a bit of aesthetics: chaos bowman and all his upgrades have axe depicted on their sprite. However their ability shows sword and is named respectively. It would be more consistent if their attack would depict axe too.

Nice find! Funny thing is that the crossbow upgrade fork's description actually refers to trading a short sword for an axe. (Yet the attack is still named... uh sword : ) The crossbowmen's attacks surely will be renamed axe. As for the bowmen it appears that the graphic and the text are at odds. I suspect they were supposed to show swords. So no matter what the bowman will be wrong, one way or the other, hehe. I'm leaning towards favouring the text in spite of the fact that it could be changed to conform to the graphics. Perhaps the graphic can be updated someday.