[Historical] Some proposed changes to Heir to the Throne

[ignatius]

Problem: I recall 5 Elvish Avengers. Then any enemy who charges (assuming they have lots of Horsemen) will take 16-4 damage (a LOT) and then they can be finished off by 13-4 (still a lot) bows.

Not fun, especially if you lose units as well as winning trivially.

I assume that the Clans would get to recruit after you selected your gladiators, just like in all the other scenarios. And I have no doubt that Dave will also finetune the AI parameters for this one and script some unpleasant surprizes ...

[ignatius]

The clans are seeking to test you, not to destroy you. Any units lost by either side in the course of the scenario should be restored to life at the end of the scenario. Or perhaps they should be removed from play when they are reduced to one health instead of when they are killed.

C'mon, this is the next to last scenario and in TBfW you need mostly defensive units, anyway. So whats wrong with a little sacrifce, just to get you in the mood for the upcoming slaughter. ;-)

[Shade]

You need to change the dialogue in SoE.

- Konrad:"Look to the south"
+ Konrad:"Look inside that distant, conveniently placed cave to the north!"

Good catch, thanks!

[Elvish_Pillager]

I assume that the Clans would get to recruit after you selected your gladiators, just like in all the other scenarios.

I'm assuming they'd only have horse-units and Bowmen, like they do now. Both take massive damage from Avengers.

[turin]

Give them fencers...

[Elvish_Pillager]

Give them fencers...

Fencers have no long range attack and are weak to Blade and Pierce.

[Temuchin Khan]

My point, ignatius, is primarily one of narrative consistency. If the clans are seeking to test you, not to destroy you, why should they slaughter your units? The level is "Test of the Clans" not "Vendetta of the Clans." It's counter-intuitive to make this level in such a way that you have to permanently sacrifice some of your units. In a staged battle, there can be rules for noting when a unit has been eliminated from play, and presumably Konrad and Clan Lords would agree on some such set of rules before the "battle" begins.[/quote]

[ignatius]

My point, ignatius, is primarily one of narrative consistency. If the clans are seeking to test you, not to destroy you, why should they slaughter your units? The level is "Test of the Clans" not "Vendetta of the Clans." It's counter-intuitive to make this level in such a way that you have to permanently sacrifice some of your units. In a staged battle, there can be rules for noting when a unit has been eliminated from play, and presumably Konrad and Clan Lords would agree on some such set of rules before the "battle" begins.

I see your point, OTOH, you might already consider the very agreement so select 5 "gladiators" instead of going to battle with the whole army, a concession to keep losses low and having a "sportive" fight to the death instead (you might spare the Clan leader like in Princess_of_Wesnoth, though). After all, these were rough times ...

A dialog might run like

Bayar: Hah! You think you can seize the throne? Defeat us in battle and we will join
you, or leave now and never return!

Kalenz: Very well. We will fight you.

and then have Delfador come to the rescue and propose to have only 5 gladiators instead.

cu

Ignatius

[Darth Fool]

You could give the player a choice... fight with everybody or have a 5 versus 5 battle ... with some suitable reward

[santi]

It's ok to give more branching, but no matter what please do NOT remove any scenaria. At worst give the player an option to bypass them.
As for Test of the Clans, I think it's ok as it is. What is this with fake combat?
This is not the late 20th century and test means test, dying is part of the game.
Clans follow the king because he is stronger than them, not weaker.

[santi]

Oh, and by the way, Shade, please no NOT forget Dwarven Doors. I think we should make this a fighting (but winnable) scenario and rule out a running strategy, such as recruiting 5 horsemen for cover and run with all you got to the right door

[Shade]

Oh, and by the way, Shade, please no NOT forget Dwarven Doors. I think we should make this a fighting (but winnable) scenario and rule out a running strategy, such as recruiting 5 horsemen for cover and run with all you got to the right door

My plan for Dwarven Doors is simple, make it winnable by sane people on medium & randomise the door...

[Jussi]

Hi,

I read Aelius's ideas of campain balancing and have an idea how they can be implemented in Bay of Pearls land battle. Now the hardness of the level depends very much from your first four recruits. If you fight against trolls and archers the level is quite easy but if you are agaist orcish warriors it is very hard. I was thinking that it would be a good idea to make land orc's recruitment constant and based on difficulty level. My suggestion is that the land orc would recruit more orchish warriors on hard and less on easy. Possibly they should also arrive one by one on easy and as a group on hard.

Another way would be to add some defensive terrain and change its place according to difficulty level. You could place it close to castle somewhere you would most naturally put your defensive position on easy and place it further on hard so that you would have to hurry to reach it before the orcs.

Jussi

[aelius]

I was thinking that it would be a good idea to make land orc's recruitment constant and based on difficulty level. My suggestion is that the land orc would recruit more orchish warriors on hard and less on easy. Possibly they should also arrive one by one on easy and as a group on hard.

This can be accomplished by changing the size of his keep with WML. It's very useful. Big keep -> massed enemies. Small keep -> strung out enemies.

Another way would be to add some defensive terrain and change its place according to difficulty level.

It's amazing how much this can alter a level. Putting just two or three forest tiles about half-way around the coast makes it much easier. The closer you are to some base of operations (i.e. favourable terrain or a keep) the more you're able to make tactical mistakes and recover.

- b.

[Jussi]

I was thinking that it would be a good idea to make land orc's recruitment constant and based on difficulty level. My suggestion is that the land orc would recruit more orchish warriors on hard and less on easy. Possibly they should also arrive one by one on easy and as a group on hard.

This can be accomplished by changing the size of his keep with WML. It's very useful. Big keep -> massed enemies. Small keep -> strung out enemies.

- b.

I was thinking about a different mechanism. Lets say that the land orc could recruit three orcish warriors at each difficulty level in addition to archers and trolls. Then difficulty would change if you allow it recruit only one warrior for each castle on easy and all three simultaneously on hard. Then you could kill the big warriors one by one easy but you woud more likely have to defend yourself against some of them on hard because it is harder to kill all three in one round.

Possibly you could also change difficulty level by choosing at which castle the orc is allowed to recruit warriors. I'm not sure how this would affect the difficulty level and it might differ according to player's style.

Jussi