Alternative Upgrade for Necromancer
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jonathantan86
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Alternative Upgrade for Necromancer
Another idea...
When the Necromancer upgrades it turns into a Lich which is undead. Perhaps in the face of holy opposition (Paladins/White Mages) a player would prefer to keep the Necromancer's non-undeadness?
The new unit (say, Grand Necromancer) would probably be weaker than a Lich but keep the resistances of the Level 2 Necromancer.
When the Necromancer upgrades it turns into a Lich which is undead. Perhaps in the face of holy opposition (Paladins/White Mages) a player would prefer to keep the Necromancer's non-undeadness?
The new unit (say, Grand Necromancer) would probably be weaker than a Lich but keep the resistances of the Level 2 Necromancer.
Agreed. This has been suggested many times, though, in particular by EP. And it has been rejected as either unnecessary or not having the needed graphics. 
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Each proposed alternative had some weird ability tacked onto it, which is why I think it never took off.
If you made a unit that didn't have raise-dead, undead aura healing, leadership, nega-leading, or something else unusual, granted the unit is less interesting but more feasible.
Maybe the alternate upgrade, instead of getting stronger attacks in exchange for being undead, could learn a new spell and gain HP. For example, he could have a slightly stronger cold attack but also another magic attack with a new damage type (impact or fire, maybe).
If you made a unit that didn't have raise-dead, undead aura healing, leadership, nega-leading, or something else unusual, granted the unit is less interesting but more feasible.
Maybe the alternate upgrade, instead of getting stronger attacks in exchange for being undead, could learn a new spell and gain HP. For example, he could have a slightly stronger cold attack but also another magic attack with a new damage type (impact or fire, maybe).
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
How about...
Grand Necromancer
HP: 66 (Same as Lich, but keep in mind different resistances)
XP: --
Alignment: Chaotic
Moves: 5 (Vs. Lich's 6)
Resistance/Movement/Defence: As Necromancer
Attacks:
-Staff: Impact Melee 4-3 (Same as Necromancer)
-Chill Wave Mk II: Cold Ranged 14-2 Magical (Vs. Lich's 12-3)
-Lifedrain: Cold Ranged 7-3 Drain
Edit: Reduced Chill Wave II to 14-2 from 15-2 to keep with progression from Adept -> Necromancer.
Grand Necromancer
HP: 66 (Same as Lich, but keep in mind different resistances)
XP: --
Alignment: Chaotic
Moves: 5 (Vs. Lich's 6)
Resistance/Movement/Defence: As Necromancer
Attacks:
-Staff: Impact Melee 4-3 (Same as Necromancer)
-Chill Wave Mk II: Cold Ranged 14-2 Magical (Vs. Lich's 12-3)
-Lifedrain: Cold Ranged 7-3 Drain
Edit: Reduced Chill Wave II to 14-2 from 15-2 to keep with progression from Adept -> Necromancer.
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jonathantan86
- Posts: 57
- Joined: February 26th, 2005, 9:26 am
A Grand Necromancer does not have to be so much more powerful than a Necromancer. I was thinking more on the lines of the Lich being still the preferred line but if the opposition is too "holy" then there is at least a way out for the Undead player.
The stats suggested by Tieom would be quite good, I think. Maybe the HP should be reduced a little, though.
The stats suggested by Tieom would be quite good, I think. Maybe the HP should be reduced a little, though.
It seems kind of pointless to put in an alternate L3 advancement that's entirely useless unless your enemy is fielding vast amounts of paladins/white magi.
I mean...
Proposed Grand Necro HP: 66
Lich effective HP (vs. Blade): 73
Lich effective HP (vs. Pierce): 94
" " " (vs. Impact): 60
Considering the 30 HP jump from Adept to Necromancer, gaining a measly 8HP is kind of lame, particularly when you consider that the Lich is going to have 7 to 28 'more HP' in the majority of situations, particuarly when using the much more powerful ranged attack.
....
With that in mind:
Grand Necromancer
These masters of the dark powers have avoided the fell clutch of Undeath by acheiving control of their souls. A logical extension is the control of the souls of others. Grand Necromancers can drain the soul (or appropriate binding energy) out of any creature and add it to their own.
HP: 68 (vs. "66" for lich, see above)
XP: --
Alignment: Chaotic
Moves: 5 (vs. 6 for lich)
Resistance/Movement/Defence: As Necromancer
Attacks:
-Staff: Impact Melee 5-3 (vs. Lich's 5-3 Cold drain)
-Chill Wave: Cold Ranged 14-2 magical (vs. Lich's 12-3)
-Siphon Soul: Cold Ranged 28-1 drain
I mean...
Proposed Grand Necro HP: 66
Lich effective HP (vs. Blade): 73
Lich effective HP (vs. Pierce): 94
" " " (vs. Impact): 60
Considering the 30 HP jump from Adept to Necromancer, gaining a measly 8HP is kind of lame, particularly when you consider that the Lich is going to have 7 to 28 'more HP' in the majority of situations, particuarly when using the much more powerful ranged attack.
....
With that in mind:
Grand Necromancer
These masters of the dark powers have avoided the fell clutch of Undeath by acheiving control of their souls. A logical extension is the control of the souls of others. Grand Necromancers can drain the soul (or appropriate binding energy) out of any creature and add it to their own.
HP: 68 (vs. "66" for lich, see above)
XP: --
Alignment: Chaotic
Moves: 5 (vs. 6 for lich)
Resistance/Movement/Defence: As Necromancer
Attacks:
-Staff: Impact Melee 5-3 (vs. Lich's 5-3 Cold drain)
-Chill Wave: Cold Ranged 14-2 magical (vs. Lich's 12-3)
-Siphon Soul: Cold Ranged 28-1 drain
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Elvish_Pillager
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Sheesh. You people need to stop sticking on extra abilities. Having level 3 forks is nice, but like every other level 3 fork, at least one side shouldn't gain any abilities! My proposal is as follows:
Descendant Necromancer
80 HP
5 moves
smallfoot + some cold resistance
5-3 staff
15-2 magic
Description: Descendant Necromancers are the cowards who would not take the power of the Dead when it was offered. They are scorned by the true undead, the Liches, who consider them to be inferior. While they are still skilled in combat, they lack the powerful magic and draining touch of Liches, claiming only their resilience as an advantage.
P.S.: Also, Darth Fool and/or a bunch of people, possibly including Jetryl, created and/or worked on a set of graphics which was very nice. In other words, the graphics are available.
Descendant Necromancer
80 HP
5 moves
smallfoot + some cold resistance
5-3 staff
15-2 magic
Description: Descendant Necromancers are the cowards who would not take the power of the Dead when it was offered. They are scorned by the true undead, the Liches, who consider them to be inferior. While they are still skilled in combat, they lack the powerful magic and draining touch of Liches, claiming only their resilience as an advantage.
P.S.: Also, Darth Fool and/or a bunch of people, possibly including Jetryl, created and/or worked on a set of graphics which was very nice. In other words, the graphics are available.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
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Elvish_Pillager
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It does have 80 HP and better melee than most dedicated archers.
It would become the toughest mage in the game, and one of the toughest units.
It would become the toughest mage in the game, and one of the toughest units.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
I like the name better than Grand Necromancer.
15-2 magic what?
15-2 magic cold and 15-2 magic impact perhaps. Let the guy learn another spell for his trouble.
Wasn't I right though about the irresistable desire to tack on abilities?
15-2 magic what?
15-2 magic cold and 15-2 magic impact perhaps. Let the guy learn another spell for his trouble.
Wasn't I right though about the irresistable desire to tack on abilities?
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
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Elvish_Pillager
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Obviously it's the same Chill Wave as the whole rest of the tree.scott wrote:15-2 magic what?
Na'enthos: I will oppose this unit ever being used as an enemy leader without a really good excuse. It's not supposed to be the kind of unit that gets used as a leader.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
Then magic would have been equally obvious.Elvish Pillager wrote:Obviously it's the same Chill Wave as the whole rest of the tree.scott wrote:15-2 magic what?
Na'enthos: I will oppose this unit ever being used as an enemy leader without a really good excuse. It's not supposed to be the kind of unit that gets used as a leader.
I don't think the unit is really that necessary. Liches are scary enough as-is. I rarely have more than 1 L3 holy unit (when you have to fight liches), and the risk of losing a Mage of Light or Paladin is still huge enough to make me cautious about attacking. Scenarios like Isle of the Damned still present a big risk to a L2 holy unit. The exception is my holy iron mauler in Eastern Invasion. He rips through everybody.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
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Elvish_Pillager
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The Lich violates RIPLIB. Unless you have a solid reason why RIPLIB isn't important, then don't say it isn't necessary because 'it's upgrade is powerful, we don't need another one for some unknown reason.'scott wrote:I don't think the unit is really that necessary.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.