--- Log opened Sa Okt 25 00:00:38 2008 --- Day changed Sa Okt 25 2008 20081025 00:00:37-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit ["Power failu"] 20081025 00:04:25-!- boucman [n=rosen@57.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 20081025 00:09:32-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 00:19:54-!- me [n=me@athedsl-4500413.home.otenet.gr] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 00:19:57-!- me is now known as kalenz 20081025 00:21:04< kalenz> loonycyborg, make went ok, make install says /bin/ginstall: cannot stat `./da/wesnoth.6': no such file or directory 20081025 00:21:18< kalenz> then make[4]: *** [install-data-hook] Error 1 20081025 00:22:25< loonycyborg> kalenz: This is some autotools screwup. 20081025 00:22:49< kalenz> did others also get this? 20081025 00:23:12< kalenz> The INSTALL says this is the only way to install, scons does not work withtrunk 20081025 00:23:34< loonycyborg> Do you really want to install it? You can run it from working root: src/wesnoth. 20081025 00:24:05< loonycyborg> Install should work with trunk scons. 20081025 00:24:27< loonycyborg> scons is broken in 1.4 branch though. 20081025 00:24:37< kalenz> I work on 1.5 20081025 00:24:49< loonycyborg> Then scons should work. 20081025 00:25:20< loonycyborg> At least it works for me and some other people.. 20081025 00:28:18< kalenz> ok, trying scons then. Maybe we should update the INSTALL to not use autotools while this gets fixed 20081025 00:29:02< loonycyborg> When did you checkout your working copy? 20081025 00:29:33< kalenz> 2 days ago 20081025 00:29:39< loonycyborg> If it was long ago then make maintainer-clean may fix that.. 20081025 00:32:35-!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe11fa00-51.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 20081025 00:45:27-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 00:47:50-!- kalenzzzz [n=me@athedsl-4505085.home.otenet.gr] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 00:48:31-!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 00:48:39-!- kalenzzzz is now known as kalenzzz 20081025 00:49:24-!- kalenz [n=me@athedsl-4500413.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081025 00:53:55-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has quit ["Leaving"] 20081025 00:54:49-!- kalenzzz [n=me@athedsl-4505085.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 20081025 01:00:08-!- ilor [n=a@unaffiliated/ilor] has quit [Connection timed out] 20081025 01:00:17-!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: uso_ 20081025 01:00:30-!- Netsplit over, joins: uso_ 20081025 01:01:38< loonycyborg> OK. I confirm that install is broken in autotools. 20081025 01:04:15-!- ABCD [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has quit [Client Quit] 20081025 01:08:40< loonycyborg> Though breakage only occurs if nls support is enabled. 20081025 01:25:11-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@217.10.38.214] has quit ["Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"] 20081025 01:42:52-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 01:48:27-!- Sirp_ [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 01:49:44-!- ABCD [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 02:00:22-!- YogiHH [i=YogiHH@c169058.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 20081025 02:12:18-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Hi! I'm a quit message virus vaccine. If you see a quit message virus, don't replace your quit message with it!"] 20081025 02:14:20-!- grrrX [n=_@p57BBE7DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20081025 02:16:54-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has quit ["Leaving"] 20081025 02:51:28-!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]"] 20081025 02:53:27< Sirp_> Soliton: are you around? 20081025 03:57:30-!- uso_ [n=uso@84-72-8-253.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081025 03:58:44-!- Sirp_ [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081025 04:02:50-!- Jimm_ [n=jim@c-24-14-111-0.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 04:09:33-!- uso_ [n=uso@84-72-8-253.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 04:24:24-!- Sirp_ [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 04:49:51-!- Ivanovic_ [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db21b84.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 05:03:14-!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Jimm_, ettin 20081025 05:04:24-!- Netsplit over, joins: ettin, Jimm_ 20081025 05:05:50-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 05:07:05-!- Ivanovic [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db206e4.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081025 05:07:49-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic 20081025 05:16:05-!- Ivanovic_ [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db203c2.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 05:32:50-!- Ivanovic [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db21b84.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081025 05:34:04-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic 20081025 05:38:07-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-43-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 05:38:09-!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-71-59-35-203.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 05:39:10-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@c-68-49-10-243.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 05:44:02< noy> hey ESR_ you around? 20081025 05:48:05< Sapient> yo noy 20081025 05:48:11< noy> hey saps 20081025 05:48:27-!- espreon [n=espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 05:49:28< noy> how are you? 20081025 05:51:59-!- espreon is now known as Espreon 20081025 05:54:51< Sapient> good, good 20081025 05:55:06< Sapient> I may never eat another QuikTrip hotdog again, though 20081025 05:55:20< Sapient> I was sick for like 8 hours 20081025 05:55:54< noy> ugh 20081025 05:55:56< noy> thats terrible 20081025 05:56:09< noy> I went for some fast asian food the other week and I had a similar experience 20081025 05:56:28< Espreon> What are these QuickTrip hotdogs of which thou speakest? 20081025 05:56:30< Sapient> yeah, I knew it was a bad idea but they taste good and I was dang hungry 20081025 05:57:24< Sapient> Espreon: you are in the U.S. so you should be familiar with gas station cuisine right? :P 20081025 05:58:19< Espreon> Sapient: I do not live among the slums in the country. 20081025 05:59:36< Sapient> ah, well you should mingle with the common man sometimes. it's fun 20081025 05:59:54< Sapient> other than the 8 hours of acid reflux, that is :p 20081025 06:00:16< Espreon> Sapient: It is not. 20081025 06:01:29< Espreon> Anyway, once I finish those GIMP brushes I will be much happier. 20081025 06:02:21< Sapient> hey, are you the one who offerend to help with Velensk campaigns on the forum? 20081025 06:02:45< Espreon> Sapient: Which ones? 20081025 06:03:10< Espreon> I offered to do an Elemental campaign... but it evolved into TSL... 20081025 06:03:19< Sapient> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=315280#p315280 20081025 06:03:53< Sapient> "People like I can correct your grammar" is not correct grammar ;) 20081025 06:04:09< Espreon> Anyway, I hope you people like lazy cartography... because my GIMP brushes will allow that... I just need to create a hills brush and a mountains brush... 20081025 06:04:21< Espreon> Sapient: I did not say that, you did. 20081025 06:04:30< Espreon> I said "People like I can improve it vastly..." 20081025 06:04:31< Sapient> People such as myself find your words amusing 20081025 06:04:53< Sapient> Espreon: that's still incorrect 20081025 06:04:54< Espreon> Sometimes I make mistakes. 20081025 06:05:03< Espreon> Sapient: I am well aware. 20081025 06:05:25< Espreon> Anyway, thou knowest thineself well... 20081025 06:07:27< Sapient> People like me can aslo correct ur spellin :) 20081025 06:07:42 * Sapient is easily amused 20081025 06:07:46< Espreon> I was using Old English. 20081025 06:08:16< Espreon> In that sentence a couple lines ago and whatnot. 20081025 06:08:47< Espreon> *a few 20081025 06:09:19< Espreon> I find Metisse to be highly amusing... 20081025 06:10:47< Sapient> I wonder if Wesnoth will build for me today 20081025 06:10:51 * Sapient tests 20081025 06:10:59< Espreon> I doubt it. 20081025 06:11:10< Espreon> I have been hearing all these bad things. 20081025 06:11:14< Espreon> I shall be back. 20081025 06:11:18-!- Espreon [n=espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081025 06:11:54< noy> Sapient: I always go for the jerky 20081025 06:12:08< noy> honey garlic... nothing too spicy 20081025 06:12:41< Sapient> ah, jack links or slim jim? 20081025 06:12:51< noy> I think jack links 20081025 06:12:55< noy> whatever come in the bags 20081025 06:13:23< Sapient> ah, that sounds somewhat safer than the hot dogs. I may try that next time 20081025 06:13:30< noy> exactly 20081025 06:13:41< noy> just don't eat too many 20081025 06:14:21< Sapient> wise advise sir 20081025 06:15:22-!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 06:16:01< Espreon> Yay... 20081025 06:17:15< Espreon> Ugh, it is now Saturday; I hate Saturday and Sunday... 20081025 06:23:14< Espreon> Sapient: I am gonna attempt to create a hill brush... Wish me luck. 20081025 06:23:34< Sapient> you should change your nick to Eeyore or something 20081025 06:24:04< Sapient> good luck with that... ;) 20081025 06:25:09< Espreon> Sounds like someone is being negatively affected by the weekend... 20081025 06:39:43< Sapient> yay! buile wesnoth.exe 0 errors 0 warnings 20081025 06:40:21-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has quit ["Leaving"] 20081025 06:40:42-!- Jimm_ [n=jim@c-24-14-111-0.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20081025 06:59:34< ESR_> Espreon: I am eager to try out your cartography brushes. 20081025 07:09:49< CIA-41> esr * r30362 /trunk/data/tools/trackplacer: 20081025 07:09:49< CIA-41> trackplacer: For each stage in a track, also write an _END nacrto that 20081025 07:09:49< CIA-41> refers to the terminating location. 20081025 07:14:42< ESR_> noy: You were looking for me? 20081025 07:14:48< noy> I was 20081025 07:15:00< noy> I was at a defence academic conference 20081025 07:15:24< noy> and there was a professor there talking about the implications of IT for the present day military 20081025 07:15:47< noy> anyway 20081025 07:16:15< noy> I wanted to pick your brain about any possible use of open source ideas for military technology trends 20081025 07:16:22< noy> like philosophy 20081025 07:16:26-!- [Relic] [n=[Relic]@adsl-76-229-220-201.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20081025 07:17:37< noy> we can do this privately so not to clutter up IRC if you wish 20081025 07:19:55< ESR_> However you like. 20081025 07:22:12< noy> its up to you 20081025 07:22:23< noy> do you have any thoughts? 20081025 07:22:38< noy> preliminary ones? 20081025 07:24:13< Sapient> maybe we should create a new logger level for "wml" and get rid of notifs, and migrate some wml engine logging 20081025 07:27:50< Sapient> wesbot: topic 20081025 07:28:12< Sapient> oh... no wesbot 20081025 07:28:46< ESR_> noy:... hmmm... 20081025 07:28:49< Sapient> Rhonda: wesbot is dead? 20081025 07:29:27< noy> ESR_: take your time... its a tough question and I thought you might have some insights after thinking about it 20081025 07:29:36< noy> there is no pressing need 20081025 07:29:55< ESR_> I think I need to meditate on this one for a while. 20081025 07:30:07< ESR_> But I'll do it. 20081025 07:33:38< CIA-41> esr * r30363 /trunk/ (24 files in 6 dirs): 20081025 07:33:38< CIA-41> A single full-color map in something like the house style replaces the four old 20081025 07:33:38< CIA-41> sepia-toned maps for Son Of The Black Eye. The campaign's journey track is now fully editable. 20081025 07:34:43< Sapient> ESR_: if you have bugs related directly to the WML engine, feel free to assign those to me 20081025 07:35:50< CIA-41> esr * r30364 /branches/resources/cartography-tools/great-continent.xcf: 20081025 07:35:50< CIA-41> The XCF stack now contains a base map and complete overlays for a new 20081025 07:35:50< CIA-41> Far North map, used for Son of the Black Eye. 20081025 07:36:09< Sapient> all parts of the code use WML for configuration parameters but I am referring to in-scenario events 20081025 07:36:40< Sapient> e.g. anything that might fall in an [event] 20081025 07:40:12< Sapient> I have some coding time this weekend so I'll take a look at my items 20081025 07:46:27-!- Mordocai [n=Mordocai@66.119.9.243] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 07:52:44 * Sapient currently working on bug #10337: AMLA special abilities don't show up in help before they're applied 20081025 07:55:18-!- Mordocai [n=Mordocai@66.119.9.243] has quit ["booting debian"] 20081025 08:01:21< Sapient> sometimes the easiest way to find all the files that call a function is to change its name and hit "build all" 20081025 08:01:32< Sirp_> Sapient: absolutely! :) 20081025 08:01:37< Sirp_> Sapient: that's one of the nice things about C++. 20081025 08:01:53< Sirp_> Sapient: also one of the easiest ways to e.g. find all the uses of a type. 20081025 08:02:17< Sapient> right, you could never do that with Python ;) 20081025 08:03:40< Sirp_> Sapient: well of course you can! Just run your meticulously maintained unit test suite that every Python fanatic says they have for every program they write and see all the places it breaks!! ;) 20081025 08:04:02 * Sapient chuckles 20081025 08:06:53 * ESR_ notes that grep is his friend. 20081025 08:07:07-!- Mordocai [n=mordocai@66.119.9.243] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 08:07:29< Sapient> grep doesn't help when the function is named something common across multiple classes, though 20081025 08:08:37 * ESR_ further notes that grep will find you likely hits much sooner that the 50,000,000,000 years it takes to compile and link ant nontrivial program in C++.... 20081025 08:09:08< Sapient> hmm... how do you make the build attempt keep going after errors? 20081025 08:09:36< ESR_> -k will do it in either make or scons 20081025 08:13:17< Sapient> ESR_: here's a proposal for a fix to 10337 20081025 08:13:41< ESR_> : 20081025 08:13:41< Sapient> how about, when building the ability help for a unit, include all potential advancement abilities? 20081025 08:13:43< ESR_> ? 20081025 08:14:10< Sapient> this means also that all potential advancement abilities will show in the unit type preview panel 20081025 08:14:50< ESR_> Hmmm...don't we want those to be insible until the point at which the advancement is available? 20081025 08:15:32< Sapient> hiding abilities is not as important I think 20081025 08:15:56< Sapient> especially when you're dealing with such a custom unit 20081025 08:16:06-!- maxy2 [n=maxy@80-219-1-12.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 08:16:38< Sapient> gaining new abilities while retaining the same unit type is currently outside the normal unit model 20081025 08:17:27< Sapient> it's possible with WML, but the help screens aren't really designed to show such things 20081025 08:17:43< Sapient> in this case, I'd rather err on the side of too much info 20081025 08:17:49-!- maxy2 is now known as maxy 20081025 08:18:07< Sapient> the problem is, it could be a bit misleading 20081025 08:18:37< Sapient> as in "Hey, the help shows all these abilities for Kaleh, but I don't see them on him" 20081025 08:18:59< Sapient> I guess it really needs a seperate section 20081025 08:19:39< Sapient> like... uh... "Advancement Abilities:" or something 20081025 08:25:03< Sapient> this is a tradeoff of flexibility of WML: if you customize things heavily enough, the AI and the Help system won't always understand the dynamics of it 20081025 08:26:22< Sapient> since UtBS is official content, though, I think its upgrade system needs to be fairly represented in Help 20081025 08:27:49< Sapient> possibly, a more generic solution is needed to add things to the Help system dynamically 20081025 08:30:50-!- Sirp_ [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081025 08:39:42< Sapient> for now, I think I'll just add an "Advancement Abilities:" section 20081025 08:44:58< CIA-41> esr * r30365 /trunk/data/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 20081025 08:44:58< CIA-41> trackplacer: Now generates macros that allow a journey track to display red 20081025 08:44:58< CIA-41> only for the terminating battle or rest of each stage. LoW wanted this. 20081025 09:04:50-!- Mordocai [n=mordocai@66.119.9.243] has quit ["rebooting"] 20081025 09:08:15-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@217.10.38.214] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 09:10:53-!- boucman [n=rosen@57.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 09:10:55-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@217.10.38.214] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 09:12:01 * loonycyborg wonders where did wesbot go 20081025 09:29:13< Sapient> std::copy syntax still seems weird after all this time 20081025 09:35:48-!- EdB [n=EdB@208.117.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 09:40:07-!- ilor [n=a@77-253-64-197.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 09:42:50< boucman> yay http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22640 20081025 09:44:06< Sapient> w00t, more kitty stuffs 20081025 09:44:41< Sapient> that pose is so gay, though... lol 20081025 09:45:07< Sapient> maybe fitting depending on your view of elves I guess 20081025 09:56:46-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@217.10.38.214] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20081025 10:05:06-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@217.10.38.214] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081025 10:08:18-!- yann [n=dwitch@nan92-1-81-57-214-146.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081025 10:11:53-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@217.10.38.214] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 10:26:11-!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-166-125.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 10:29:31-!- yann [n=dwitch@nan92-1-81-57-214-146.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 10:35:00-!- Rrenys [n=mail@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 10:37:53-!- Noyga [n=lame-z@AVelizy-151-1-52-168.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 10:49:35-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-43-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [] 20081025 10:49:41-!- EdB [n=EdB@208.117.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 20081025 11:18:26-!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@moinmoin/developer/karol] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 11:33:22< CIA-41> jorda * r30366 /trunk/po/wesnoth-lib/ca_ES@valencia.po: Update Valencian translation (thanks to Robert Millan) 20081025 11:35:11< CIA-41> jorda * r30367 /trunk/po/wesnoth-lib/ca.po: Fix spelling mistake in Catalan translation (thanks to Robert Millan) 20081025 11:59:38< CIA-41> sapient * r30368 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Help menu : ability upgrades for max-level advancements are now listed (bug #10337) 20081025 12:05:58< CIA-41> sapient * r30369 /trunk/src/help.cpp: remove an unused #include 20081025 12:14:26-!- grrrX [n=_@p57BBFE10.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 12:22:06< Sapient> TortoiseSVN steps to revert a commit: 1. update to the old revision, 2. copy file, 3. update to head, 4. paste file to overwrite, 5. commit 20081025 12:24:06< CIA-41> sapient * r30370 /trunk/src/dialogs.cpp: don't display ability upgrades in the recruitment panel. 20081025 12:24:24< Sapient> if you skip steps 2-4 it won't let you commit for some reason 20081025 12:24:56< ilor> Sapient: you can also use merge 20081025 12:25:19< Sapient> ah, I'll try that next time 20081025 12:25:47< ilor> technically when you svn up to a past revision you don't have any changes locally and that's why there's no commit option 20081025 12:26:20< Sapient> depends what you consider a "change" but, whatever 20081025 12:26:50< Sapient> a simple "revert" option would be nice 20081025 12:27:26< Sapient> they have a repo browser but it takes half an hour to initialize 20081025 12:27:43< Sapient> err, revision graph I mean 20081025 12:29:03< Sapient> cya later, have fun. 20081025 12:29:03-!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-71-59-35-203.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20081025 12:41:48-!- Rrenys [n=mail@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20081025 12:47:01-!- miq [n=miq@krlh-5d8573ca.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 12:50:55-!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 13:03:45-!- elias [n=allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 13:15:38-!- Rh0nda [n=rhonda@oftc.net-irc-server.noreply.org] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 13:36:24-!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20081025 13:37:01< AI0867> ESR_: r30363's new LoW map seems to have debris from cut-out cities 20081025 13:37:17< AI0867> compare http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/wesnoth/trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/images/low-map.png?rev=30362 with http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/wesnoth/trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/images/legend-of-wesmere-map.png?rev=30363 20081025 13:47:11-!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 13:52:40-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 14:23:47-!- Noyga [n=lame-z@AVelizy-151-1-52-168.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20081025 14:41:20< AI0867> I got a failed assertion on LoW 16 20081025 14:41:21< AI0867> wesnoth: src/unit_map.cpp:72: std::pair* unit_map::unit_iterator::operator->() const: Assertion `valid()' failed. 20081025 14:41:23< CIA-41> ai0867 * r30371 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/utils/deaths.cfg: * Fix Landar's conditional death message. 20081025 14:56:43< Espreon> ESR_: Are you still here? Sorry, I fell asleep at my comp. 20081025 15:09:22-!- Noyga [n=lame-z@AVelizy-151-1-52-168.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 15:16:00-!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe11fa00-51.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 15:21:10-!- Baufo [n=thomas@62-47-148-106.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 15:23:54< Espreon> All right, now to extract hills and mountains from the xcf... 20081025 16:08:42-!- Elvish_Pillage2 [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 16:10:31-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20081025 16:31:04-!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20081025 16:43:23-!- grrrX [n=_@p57BBFE10.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081025 16:44:36-!- grrrX [n=_@p57BBFE10.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 16:54:19-!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 16:54:41< ESR_> AI0867: The presence of Blackwater Port and Fort Tath is intentional. I'm supposing those are two o f the earliest settlements; there's a battle at Fort Tath in the campaign. 20081025 16:55:17< Espreon> ESR_: I read that you are eager to try my brushes... I am sorry I did not respond nine hours earlier (I feel asleep at my comp)... 20081025 16:56:21< ESR_> Espreon: Hills and mountains are all tangled togethr, alas -- expteacting indivuals won't be easy. Are you going to try to build a parametric ountain brush? 20081025 16:56:42< ESR_> s/expteacting/extracting/ 20081025 16:57:10< Espreon> What does parametric mean? 20081025 16:57:36< Espreon> I am making individual brushes of mountains that can be fully individual. 20081025 16:59:15< ESR_> Espreon: Parametric brushes are procedurally generated; they can take, say, a size input from the state of the mouse wheel. 20081025 16:59:56< Espreon> I will be back in a moment. 20081025 17:00:23< stikonas> ESR_: AI0867 talked about some debris of Soradoc in Legend of Wesmere map. 20081025 17:00:46< ESR_> Checking... 20081025 17:02:41< stikonas> ESR_: probably some layer wasn't removed. Other cities also have debris. 20081025 17:08:08< Espreon> ESR_: Yeah, their size can be manipulated... 20081025 17:14:04< Espreon> ESR_: Would you like to see the brushes I done so far? So far I did swamp brushes, a label brush, a trail dot brush, a tree brush, a hill brush (I will make more), and a mountain brush (I will make more). 20081025 17:14:08< CIA-41> esr * r30372 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/images/legend-of-wesmere-map.png: City debris removed from LoW map. 20081025 17:14:26< ESR_> Yes, I'd like to see them. 20081025 17:15:05< Espreon> Lemme upload them and I will show them to you. 20081025 17:15:55< CIA-41> esr * r30373 /branches/resources/cartography-tools/great-continent.xcf: Removed Debris from LoW overlay. 20081025 17:16:57< Espreon> ESR_: Please not I will not be making city and similar brushes as Mica already made them. 20081025 17:17:01< Espreon> *note 20081025 17:17:14< ESR_> He did? 20081025 17:17:27< Espreon> Yes. 20081025 17:17:35< ESR_> All these things need to go in the cartography resources dorectory. 20081025 17:17:50< Espreon> Should I commit them; I have write access... 20081025 17:18:32< Espreon> ESR_: Do you want to see them before I commit them? 20081025 17:19:26< ESR_> Please commit them. Also, please add documentation about how to install them to map-howto.txt. Ideally, the docs should include a pointer to a Web tutorial on making and modifying brushes. 20081025 17:19:43< Espreon> All right. 20081025 17:19:57< ESR_> Do you know where we can find a copy og Mica's brushes? 20081025 17:20:21< Espreon> Lemme link you to the thread. 20081025 17:21:21< Espreon> ESR_: Enjoy: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=21659 20081025 17:24:51< Espreon> ESR_: Would /branches/resources/cartography-tools/brushes be fine? 20081025 17:25:08< Espreon> */cartography-tools/brushes/ 20081025 17:37:22< ESR_> Espreon: How are they packaged? 20081025 17:37:53< Espreon> The format is .gih 20081025 17:40:24< ESR_> Espreon: cartography-tools/brushes looks like a good place. You can put Mica's there as well. 20081025 17:41:27< Espreon> ESR_: La problema is that GIMP brushes are incompatible with Photoshop... I know it is possible to convert... Should I worry about this or should I assume the user has omniscience of Photoshop (like the government assumes we all have omniscience of the law)? 20081025 17:42:39< ESR_> Don't worry about it. GIMP is the open-source tool; we;ll support GIMP by preference. If Photoshop-using devs want to contribute their own brush-equivalents, they can. 20081025 17:42:53< Espreon> All right. 20081025 17:43:12 * zookeeper still notes that most of the actual art developers use photoshop 20081025 17:43:13< Espreon> Heh... Mettise is fun... 20081025 17:43:18< ESR_> At this point, the master map stack is in XCF -- Kestenvarn's photoshop psd is way out of date. 20081025 17:44:27 * ESR_ notes that the only map developer we currently have has never used Photoshop and likely never will. 20081025 17:44:52< Espreon> That is a good thing. 20081025 17:45:08< zookeeper> sure, just saying. 20081025 17:46:32< ESR_> One of my to-do items is to merge my tutorial info on mapmaking with the GIMP into the Wiki. Kestenvarn's advice is Photoshop-centric and rather sketchy. 20081025 17:47:45< Espreon> Good, because not everyone has $800 to spend. 20081025 17:48:31< ESR_> zookeeper: What do you think of the new Far North map? I need to figure out how to texture the ocean the way Kestenvarn did, and I don't have his fine touch with the elevation layer...I hope to improve there. 20081025 17:51:36< Espreon> ESR_: Are these directions good enough? : In order to install the cartography brushes just dump them into GIMP's brushes directory. 20081025 17:52:42-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 17:52:47< ESR_> Espreon: I'll do the process and add any amplification needed. Tell me, does GIMP use the brush filenames at all? I;m thinking they should have meaningful ones. 20081025 17:53:16< Espreon> It is just wesnoth_brush*.gih 20081025 17:53:28< Espreon> * representing a number/ 20081025 17:53:41< Espreon> I'll give meaningful filenames. 20081025 17:56:00< Espreon> ESR_ Would wesnoth_*-brush.gih be meaningful. The asterisk would describe the brush. 20081025 17:56:28< Espreon> For instance if it were the name of a swamp plant brush it would be wesnsoth_swampplant1-brush.gih 20081025 17:56:39< ESR_> Good idea. Where are you committing these? They haven't shown up in wesnoth-resources 20081025 17:56:46< Espreon> I am still renaming. 20081025 17:57:13< Espreon> In addition I am watching my bratty little brothers... 20081025 18:08:26< Espreon> ESR_: I am almost there and whatnot. 20081025 18:18:47< Espreon> ESR_: I need to fix one of Mica's brushes... 20081025 18:20:21< ESR_> Don't rush. Do the job right. 20081025 18:20:27< ESR_> I'm patient. 20081025 18:20:49< Espreon> All right then. 20081025 18:31:25< ESR_> Hm. I need to reboot. Be back soon. 20081025 18:31:29-!- ESR_ [n=chatzill@static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092510]"] 20081025 18:36:42-!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@moinmoin/developer/karol] has quit [":wq"] 20081025 18:39:13-!- esr [n=chatzill@static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 18:39:53< loonycyborg> esr: Was it a kernel upgrade? :) 20081025 18:40:22< esr> I think so. My update manager requested it. 20081025 18:40:35< esr> Espreon: I'm off to lunch. 20081025 18:40:59< zookeeper> esr, uh, i'm sure the far north map is fine when you finish it 20081025 18:41:19< zookeeper> better than the old ones anyway 20081025 18:41:37< Espreon> esr: Enjoy. 20081025 18:41:40< zookeeper> (potentially much, much better than the old ones depending on how well you finish it ;) 20081025 18:41:54< esr> zookeeper: What else needs to be done? It's in production: /data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/images$ display farnorth.png 20081025 18:42:32< esr> Oops: data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/images/farnorth.png 20081025 18:45:14< zookeeper> esr, well, obviously the water texture, but it also requires antialiasing of those land-touching-water edges (since they're completely aliased now, looks rather horrible) and cleaning up the mountain edges (in some places there are clearly visible lines between the mountain layer and teh background) 20081025 18:47:00< esr> Yes, the mountains need to be redone with the new set of brushes rather than Frankensteined from the main map (which is what I did; the mountain brushes are being checked in now). How does one antialias edges? 20081025 18:47:07< zookeeper> and of course there are all those little glitches of a handful of pixels all around the map, but they are easy to fix of course 20081025 18:47:44< zookeeper> uh...i wouldn't know, probably you don't. need to recreate them using antialiased methods i suppose 20081025 18:47:53< zookeeper> i don't know how you made them 20081025 18:48:38< esr> Extracted the outline from the old map, scaled it up, and touched it up. Maybe I need to select it an d use a blur tool. 20081025 18:49:32-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-43-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 18:50:21< zookeeper> i'd suggest selecting the boundary, and using those selection modification tools (expand, contract, border, feather, whatever there are in gimp) to create an antialiased selection, which you then fill 20081025 18:50:45< zookeeper> the selection being a thin line around the coastline, i mean 20081025 18:50:58< esr> Right. I can do that. 20081025 18:51:19< zookeeper> that's how i'd try to create antialiased lines line that, i guess. 20081025 18:51:36< zookeeper> maybe i should take an actual look at the .xcf 20081025 18:52:21< esr> Maybe you should. The Far North layers all have "Far North" as the name prefix. 20081025 18:53:40< esr> See map-howto.txt for descriptions of which layers are used for which mainline maps. I tried to document everything. 20081025 18:54:00< esr> And now I really need to get lunch. Have fun. 20081025 18:55:00-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-43-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [] 20081025 19:01:37-!- elias_ [n=allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 19:01:55-!- elias [n=allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081025 19:12:00-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has quit ["Leaving"] 20081025 19:14:08< CIA-41> espreon * r30374 /branches/resources/cartography-tools/brushes/ (21 files): * Imported Espreon's & Mica's cartography GIMP brushes. 20081025 19:15:42< Espreon> Yay... my first mainline commit... 20081025 19:16:04< Espreon> *commit to the mainline repository 20081025 19:17:43-!- Espreon_ [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 19:20:15-!- tipota [n=pirrosg@ppp079166018009.dsl.hol.gr] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 19:20:23-!- tipota [n=pirrosg@ppp079166018009.dsl.hol.gr] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20081025 19:21:02-!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-71-59-35-203.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 19:21:51< Sapient> yo 20081025 19:22:13< Espreon_> Hello Sapient. 20081025 19:22:18< Sapient> hi Espreon 20081025 19:22:27< Sapient> esr: there? 20081025 19:23:57< Espreon_> Well my brushes are now in the resources repository. 20081025 19:24:02< Espreon_> *Well, 20081025 19:26:15< Espreon_> Sapient: esr is eating lunch. 20081025 19:26:29< Sapient> our irclog is still not working 20081025 19:26:43< Sapient> is there anyway to get IRseek to show the current date? 20081025 19:27:55< Espreon_> I wish I knew. 20081025 19:29:00< Sapient> shikadibot: help 20081025 19:29:01< shikadibot> I'm the IRC Shikadi-Bot 0314. You can ask me acronyms, commit log of revisions, highlight channel ops, etc. 20081025 19:30:59< zookeeper> Sapient, eh, yeah, i couldn't reproduce the moveto-fog thing anymore myself. i wonder if i was just doing something wrong earlier. 20081025 19:31:23< Sapient> zookeeper: ok 20081025 19:33:01< CIA-41> espreon * r30375 /branches/resources/cartography-tools/map-howto.txt: * Updated map-howto.txt to include brush installation instructions (at esr's request). 20081025 19:35:54-!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081025 19:36:43-!- Sirp_ [n=me@nat/google/x-daf0d88773d490bd] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 19:37:31-!- Espreon_ is now known as Espreon 20081025 19:44:33< stikonas> It is also possible to add brushes by pointing Gimp->Edit->Preferences->Folders->Brushes to svn. Then there would be no need to copy anything. 20081025 19:50:00< Espreon> I shall update the instructions... later. 20081025 19:54:16-!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-166-125.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20081025 19:54:41-!- Sirp_ [n=me@nat/google/x-daf0d88773d490bd] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20081025 19:57:56-!- Sirp_ [n=me@nat/google/x-3e6e0ae964a6b3cd] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 20:24:23-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit ["Power failu"] 20081025 20:33:04-!- Sirp_ [n=me@nat/google/x-3e6e0ae964a6b3cd] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081025 20:35:11-!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-166-125.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 20:36:50< zookeeper> even after the latest AI fixes, the green orc in BoP still seems to just keep his units in his keep for several turns in the beginning. in 1.4 for instance he immediately starts moving south. 20081025 20:36:59< zookeeper> (the WML is identical) 20081025 20:37:05< Sapient> BoP? 20081025 20:37:31< zookeeper> bay of pearls 20081025 20:37:58< zookeeper> i'm open to the possibility that he's actually just being smart to do that, but it's still notably different behaviour 20081025 20:38:55-!- Sirp_ [n=me@nat/google/x-057adf9e995aa42a] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 20:43:45< zookeeper> (well, no, it's pretty dumb actually...still just sitting there on turn 7 with a castleful of units and 150 spare gold) 20081025 20:45:00< Sapient> hmmmm... bop 20081025 20:45:25< Sapient> what version are you using? 20081025 20:45:40< zookeeper> mmmbop? 20081025 20:45:42< zookeeper> trunk 20081025 20:47:02< zookeeper> MMMbop tick a ta ba do ba 20081025 20:47:07< zookeeper> dubi da ba do ba 20081025 20:47:23< zookeeper> tick a ta ba doo yeah eh yeah! 20081025 20:47:24< Sapient> lol 20081025 20:47:40< zookeeper> disgusting. 20081025 20:47:44< zookeeper> :p 20081025 20:50:32< Sapient> Soliton: there? 20081025 20:57:50< Sapient> id=Dwaba-Kukai 20081025 20:57:59< Sapient> {ATTACK_DEPTH 1 3 5} 20081025 20:58:38< Sapient> that's the BoP AI parameter 20081025 20:59:23-!- Sirp_ [n=me@nat/google/x-057adf9e995aa42a] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081025 20:59:27-!- Sirp_ [n=me@nat/google/x-12ff204ee73bd1b3] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 20:59:39-!- maxy [n=maxy@80-219-1-12.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [] 20081025 21:00:39< zookeeper> the blue orc has the same attack depth, yet he actually attacks. 20081025 21:01:00< Sirp_> attack depth? 20081025 21:01:02< Sirp_> what's that? 20081025 21:01:29< grrrX> how many units the AI uses for an attack, or rather, considers 20081025 21:02:00< grrrX> with higher attack depth the AI can penetrate defense lines and plan to kill wounded units behind it 20081025 21:02:13< Sapient> # Macro to define AI attack depth for different difficulty levels 20081025 21:02:13< Sapient> # (set it to 1-6) 20081025 21:02:30< grrrX> that's at least what I observed 20081025 21:03:00< zookeeper> maybe i should play it with ai logging on 20081025 21:05:03< zookeeper> if i'd remember what the switch was, or if it was mentioned in some place i might actually look in for such information 20081025 21:05:30< Sapient> --log-info=ai ? 20081025 21:05:48< zookeeper> thanks 20081025 21:06:44-!- EdB [n=EdB@208.117.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 21:09:07< zookeeper> well, with over 500 lines of output per turn, i doubt i can figure anything out from that. 20081025 21:09:35< zookeeper> i guess i'll just pastebin it after a couple of turns.. 20081025 21:13:57< zookeeper> http://rafb.net/p/lONg2270.html 20081025 21:14:08-!- elias_ [n=allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit ["Client exiting"] 20081025 21:14:15< zookeeper> for the first 3 turns. side 3 is the one who won't move until i get close. 20081025 21:15:36< Sapient> it might be easier to analyse if you droid side 2 20081025 21:15:51< Sapient> just to eliminate the AI logging for them 20081025 21:16:04< zookeeper> good idea 20081025 21:19:13< zookeeper> well, i don't know how to do that. neither ":droid 2" or ":droid 2 off" do nothing. 20081025 21:19:38< Sapient> buggy 20081025 21:20:11< Sapient> I'll try 20081025 21:20:15-!- Sirp_ [n=me@nat/google/x-12ff204ee73bd1b3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081025 21:30:22-!- EdB [n=EdB@208.117.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 20081025 21:31:44-!- Sirp_ [n=me@nat/google/x-35bdeaa4c73610ab] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 21:39:43< Sapient> hmm "Sir Kaylan" appears as "Sir Kavlan" because the fonts are clipped off 20081025 21:40:11< Sapient> I'd consider that a minor display bug 20081025 21:42:38< Sapient> zookeeper: well, look... green has all those villages captured when the scenario starts 20081025 21:43:16< Sapient> I bet if they were uncaptured the AI would move south faster, as in 1.4 20081025 21:45:33< Sapient> ummm... on turn 2 both orc leaders just vanished for me 20081025 21:45:42< Sapient> instant win 20081025 21:46:08< Sapient> I'd say trunk is pretty broken 20081025 21:49:45-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 21:51:45< Sapient> 20081025 15:43:08 info ai: ai_interface::move_unit 30,14 -> 2,589827 20081025 21:52:07< Sapient> 20081025 15:49:11 error display: Tile at 2,589837 isn't on the map, can't scroll to the tile. 20081025 21:53:48< Sapient> yeah, the AI is still buggy 20081025 21:54:25< Sapient> Sirp, Dragonking: you still planning to work on the AI? 20081025 21:54:55-!- Sirp_ [n=me@nat/google/x-35bdeaa4c73610ab] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081025 21:56:17< Dragonking> If you ask about formula AI, then I don't have time now to do anything, if you ask about default AI, I have no clue what happens with it nor I want to. ;) 20081025 21:56:35< Sapient> oh... 20081025 21:57:50< Dragonking> I'm not really into default AI, and everything what happened around it during last few weeks (fixing, commiting, reverting, fixing..) really made me feel like not getting into it. 20081025 21:58:31< Sapient> regressions suck 20081025 21:59:19< Sapient> unit tests may be the only way to improve that 20081025 21:59:34< Dragonking> About formula AI, I like it, I can work on fixing it if something is broken, I can improve it, just I need to find time... and that's hardest part ATM. 20081025 22:01:46< Sapient> Dragonking: not many people work on the default AI. if we has someone who worked on it then you wouldn't have to worry about random patches and rollbacks, which are due to lack of a dedicated AI supporter 20081025 22:02:26< Sapient> I think people were only experimenting with the AI code because they had no option, as in, no one else was stepping up to do it 20081025 22:03:50< zookeeper> ummm... on turn 2 both orc leaders just vanished for me <--- well that's really odd. i haven't seen anything but AI bugs in trunk for a long time now. 20081025 22:03:56< zookeeper> and certainly never anything like that :p 20081025 22:04:07< Dragonking> So we need someone to get into ai.cpp and understand it before doing anything. 20081025 22:04:26< Dragonking> Question is who. :) 20081025 22:04:41< Sapient> Dragonking: I am saying your excuse is not good enough :) 20081025 22:05:22< Dragonking> 'No time' excuse is for sure good enough. It is always good. ;p 20081025 22:05:49< Dragonking> But seriously, I have some tihngs on my TODO for formula AI, and I even don't have time to take a look at it 20081025 22:07:25< Sapient> ok, well hopefully Sirp will be taking it on 20081025 22:07:49< Dragonking> I hope so too. 20081025 22:08:31< Dragonking> I could take a look at default AI when I have some free time, thing is to have enough free time, I'm afraid it will be in december :( 20081025 22:10:34< Dragonking> I can find few hours between my classes (and I'm trying to do this) to work on wesnoth but it is enough to implement one or two features for formula AI, nothing more I'm afraid. 20081025 22:10:48< Sapient> I hope the bugs are ironed out before December 20081025 22:11:38< Sapient> I have a little time this weekend but not sure how often this will happen in the coming weeks :) 20081025 22:12:08< Sapient> so I will take a quick peek and see if I find anything obvious 20081025 22:12:11< Dragonking> I have terrible classes hours 20081025 22:12:20< Dragonking> I leave home at 7 and get back at 20 20081025 22:13:08< Sapient> zookeeper: the droid command is working fine for me 20081025 22:13:14< Sapient> I used :droid 2 20081025 22:13:20< Sapient> were you in debug mode? 20081025 22:13:41< Dragonking> Only during friday I have some free time, but I need to rest then... that's really unfortunate, I hoped to have more time during this semester :/ 20081025 22:19:54< Sapient> speaking of new hardware, I think I may finally go out and replace this laptop 20081025 22:21:26< Sapient> although if I wait until Black Friday I may get a better deal 20081025 22:21:50< Sapient> I got it in 2002 and it's starting to really show its age 20081025 22:21:54-!- Baufo_ [n=thomas@62-47-136-78.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081025 22:21:56-!- Baufo [n=thomas@62-47-148-106.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081025 22:40:43< Sapient> I'm planning to go for dual boot with Vista + Ubuntu 20081025 22:45:07< Espreon> Sapient: Nooooooooooooooo! 20081025 22:45:24< Sapient> Espreon: well, I'm open to advice 20081025 22:45:26< Espreon> Vista is evil... in fact its source code is evil lore. 20081025 22:45:40< Espreon> Sapient: Go with the less evil Windows XP. 20081025 22:45:47< Rrenys> Go with DOS 20081025 22:45:49< stikonas> ReactOS + Ubuntu :) 20081025 22:45:54< Sapient> can you even buy XP anymore? 20081025 22:46:15< Espreon> I think Dell still gives it to people who still want it. 20081025 22:46:36< Sapient> I think the XP machines cost more 20081025 22:46:47< Sapient> and you get less support 20081025 22:46:58< Espreon> Who needs support? 20081025 22:47:15< Sapient> as in, critical security patches 20081025 22:47:23< Espreon> *Espreon runes a decompiler on the internal parts of Vista and finds Satanic lore* 20081025 22:47:32< Espreon> Oh, I meant you mean from the EOM. 20081025 22:47:47< Espreon> Sapient: Why do you need Windows. 20081025 22:47:50< Espreon> *OEM 20081025 22:48:04< Sapient> Espreon: in case I decide to do any .NET development 20081025 22:48:15< Sapient> I am a computer programmer, afterall 20081025 22:48:23< Espreon> Why would you develop in .NET? 20081025 22:48:30< Sapient> and .NET is very popular with employers 20081025 22:48:33< Sapient> and I need a job 20081025 22:48:56< Sapient> I don't like proprietary languages but I live in the "real world" 20081025 22:49:27< Espreon> Then go with the next popular language... 20081025 22:49:38< Espreon> *Espreon knows what the answer will be and whatnot* 20081025 22:49:49< Sapient> try telling that to the job interviewer 20081025 22:50:26< Sapient> they'll be like "Riiight, satanic. Next." 20081025 22:50:46< Espreon> No... they will be "Satanic... riiiiiiiiight... Next." 20081025 22:50:54< Espreon> *be like 20081025 22:51:09< Espreon> *Espreon know one job he will not take on and whatnot* 20081025 22:51:14< Espreon> *knows 20081025 22:51:16< Sapient> Ok, I am open to real advice not random Windows bashing 20081025 22:51:42< Sapient> I will probably get Vista as part of my purchase whether I want it or not 20081025 22:51:43< Espreon> I am not being random; I am being specific. 20081025 22:52:10< Sapient> So I see no need to blow away something that I could potentially need 20081025 22:52:16< Espreon> Well, just do not use it as your main OS. 20081025 22:52:33< Espreon> *Espreon wonders why a Satanic language such as .NET is popular in today's world* 20081025 22:52:44< Sapient> Besides, who will do Windows development for Wesnoth? 20081025 22:53:11< grrrX> Sapient, try to get Vista with an install medium. those hidden recovery partitions are ugly for dualboot system 20081025 22:53:23< Espreon> Sapient: Satan's Wesnoth addicted son* 20081025 22:53:27< Espreon> *? 20081025 22:53:27< grrrX> since it basically means you cant wipe the HDD 20081025 22:53:44< Sapient> Mist is MIA and YogiHH is inactive for a long time. I am the Windows dev 20081025 22:54:05< Espreon> The one and only? Have fun with that. 20081025 22:54:08< grrrX> also, Dell offers downgrades for no extra costs. the performance gain is nice 20081025 22:54:14< grrrX> downgrades to xp 20081025 22:54:28< Espreon> That sounds awesome. 20081025 22:55:02< Espreon> In this case the "downgrade disc" is more of an upgrade disc. 20081025 22:55:02< grrrX> but I guess you go for a Lenovo X200 anyway? 2.4 Ghz, dual-core is enough even for vista. and 9h battery life comes in handy, too 20081025 22:56:59< grrrX> also, wait until Intrepid is out (5 days from now) 20081025 22:57:18< Sapient> what is Intrepid? 20081025 22:57:26< grrrX> ubuntu 8.10 20081025 22:57:51< Espreon> Aaah Ubuntu... I remember when I used to use Ubuntu... 20081025 22:58:00< grrrX> includes 2.6.26 kernel AFAIK, nifty if you get new hardware =) 20081025 22:58:17< Sapient> Espreon: what OS are you using? 20081025 22:58:32< Espreon> Sapient: I switched to Sabayon Linux 20081025 22:59:02< Espreon> I switched for a stupid reason... but I cannot go back because I love Sabayon for many reasons. 20081025 22:59:40< Espreon> Sapient: Why do you ask? 20081025 23:00:01< Sapient> because I am not sure if Ubuntu is the right one for me? :) 20081025 23:00:04< loonycyborg> Sapient: How about trying Gentoo instead? :) 20081025 23:00:07< grrrX> Sabayon is probably still better than staying with Gentoo 20081025 23:00:12< grrrX> Sapient, dont listen 20081025 23:00:54< Espreon> Yes, Gentoo is painful because you have to compile EVERYTHING from source. 20081025 23:01:09< grrrX> compilation time is a minor issue with modern CPUs 20081025 23:01:35< Espreon> Yes, but it is not fun compiling OpenOffice and Firefox... 20081025 23:01:57< grrrX> well, for OO you can get binary versions =) 20081025 23:02:06< grrrX> (which I did, back on gentoo) 20081025 23:02:08-!- Baufo_ [n=thomas@62-47-136-78.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081025 23:02:10< Espreon> If I had an enormous library of movies I would compile everything. 20081025 23:02:20< Espreon> grrrX: I know. 20081025 23:03:01< grrrX> ok, what I *do* miss with ubuntu are overlays 20081025 23:03:28< grrrX> but I certainly dont miss updates that overwrite my fstab =) 20081025 23:03:48< Espreon> I do not miss apt-get & friends that much... although they are convenient. 20081025 23:04:12< loonycyborg> grrrX: Hm. I don't remember such updates. 20081025 23:04:38< grrrX> it's easy to get a decent programming environment up and running with ubuntu. source is easy to get with apt-get, and everything else you need for linking is named *-dev 20081025 23:05:21< grrrX> loonycyborg, that's the problem isn't it? some people never have problems with gentoo and tell others how great it is (which it basically *could* be) 20081025 23:05:32< grrrX> but then you trigger the edgy cases 20081025 23:06:08< loonycyborg> grrrX: The same applies to any other distro. 20081025 23:06:16< grrrX> I just think gentoo is not tested and maintained well enough to make a good distro (yeah, meta distro I know) 20081025 23:07:09< loonycyborg> Well.. It's good enough for me. 20081025 23:07:25< Espreon> It is not good enough for me as I can be impatient sometimes... 20081025 23:07:32< Espreon> *me, as --- Log closed So Okt 26 00:00:53 2008