--- Log opened Fri Oct 31 00:00:05 2008 20081031 00:05:35 -!- Espreon [n=espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081031 00:08:58 -!- miq [n=miq@krlh-5d83abf9.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081031 00:11:27 night 20081031 00:11:39 -!- mordante [n=chatzill@roadie.xs4all.nl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 20081031 00:16:36 -!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 00:22:43 -!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.247.109] has quit ["Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"] 20081031 00:24:56 -!- Elvish_Pillage2 [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 00:28:42 -!- mjs-de [n=mjs-de@vpw.wh.Uni-Dortmund.DE] has quit ["On the road again"] 20081031 00:30:49 -!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has quit ["Leaving"] 20081031 00:41:33 -!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081031 00:49:13 esr: We need to talk... 20081031 00:53:16 lol, are you two splitting up? 20081031 00:56:22 -!- Elvish_Pillage2 [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Hi! I'm a quit message virus vaccine. If you see a quit message virus, don't replace your quit message with it!"] 20081031 01:00:06 No. 20081031 01:00:17 I just need to ask him why the undead flag is not being used. 20081031 01:25:37 i am off to bed, n8 20081031 01:25:58 Good night. 20081031 01:31:16 -!- grrrX [n=_@p57BBF279.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20081031 02:00:48 -!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-71-59-35-203.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 02:18:52 Sapient: Hola. 20081031 02:19:10 hey there Espreon 20081031 02:19:21 Sapient: I have a question. 20081031 02:19:39 How come the undead flag is not used? 20081031 02:20:01 because it sucks 20081031 02:20:06 next question 20081031 02:20:13 It does not look that bad to me... but oh well... 20081031 02:20:13 :p 20081031 02:20:43 Ummmm... where is that mango you promised me? 20081031 02:23:01 -!- Sirp [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 02:23:11 Sapient: You are right... it does suck... I just noticed this after realizing that tiny parts of the flag are not... TC'd... 20081031 02:23:35 Sirp: Hola. 20081031 02:23:55 hi Espreon 20081031 02:25:54 -!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-43-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [] 20081031 02:28:06 I just realized something... 20081031 02:31:37 -!- kthakore2 [n=kthakore@99.255.245.40] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 02:32:16 -!- kthakore2 [n=kthakore@99.255.245.40] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20081031 02:36:04 -!- [Relic] [n=[Relic]@adsl-76-229-220-201.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 02:36:39 -!- kthakore2 [n=kthakore@99.255.245.40] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 02:37:06 <[Relic]> Hello :) 20081031 02:38:08 -!- Ivanovic_ [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db21c54.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 02:53:25 -!- Ivanovic [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db21a99.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20081031 02:54:07 -!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic 20081031 03:01:42 Yay? 20081031 03:01:47 Espreon: Er...what's an undead flag? <- The fact that I have no idea what you are talking about may be a clue why it's not used. 20081031 03:02:17 esr: You know when a unit captures a village a flag is overlayed on the village? 20081031 03:03:10 Of course. 20081031 03:03:14 esr: Well there is a flag of undead flavor. 20081031 03:03:21 Where? 20081031 03:03:22 It has a skull on top of it... 20081031 03:03:31 it is in images/flags I think. 20081031 03:03:36 Arrr. 20081031 03:04:04 It is like this /images/flags/ 20081031 03:04:20 esr: Did you look at the tree brush yet? 20081031 03:05:31 -!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-71-59-35-203.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081031 03:05:47 Nope. I might get to it tonight, but I've been concentrating heavily on DM. Right now I'm factoring the TROW "Warrior King" unit into an Elite Warrior base and Warrior King overlay. 20081031 03:06:14 esr: Did you find the flag? 20081031 03:07:19 Looking at it now. 20081031 03:08:03 Hm, I think most devs don't know these flag variants even exist. I wonder how a campaign can get at them from WML? 20081031 03:08:28 esr: IFtU has it implemented. 20081031 03:08:48 It is under the macro {CHAOS_FLAG} 20081031 03:08:54 Do you know how? 20081031 03:09:08 The macro is used in [side] codeblocks. 20081031 03:09:34 Interesting. I might have to bring this into core. 20081031 03:09:46 esr: Do you want me to paste the code in a pastebin for your convenience? 20081031 03:09:55 Please. 20081031 03:10:14 esr: Please note there is a "bug" with the flag images themselves. 20081031 03:10:27 Yes? What is it? 20081031 03:10:52 Very little parts of the flag are not TC'd. But, this is a very subtle thing as I had to stare at the flag to realize it. 20081031 03:10:59 But that can be easily fixed. 20081031 03:11:17 esr: btw - did you have something you had wanted to get in touch with me about? 20081031 03:11:40 Can you fix it? I'd be willing to commit the fixed images for you if you can't. 20081031 03:11:58 Jetrel: I'm trying to remember... 20081031 03:12:36 esr: I could try. Also I committed the brushes myself, so do not worry. Here you go, please enjoy: http://rafb.net/p/UHOABr50.html 20081031 03:12:47 Jetrel: Ah, that's it. Do you think you could frankensrein one of Kitty's portraits effectively? 20081031 03:13:56 esr: uhm, yes. However, except for certain rare circumstances, I wouldn't be willing to, because it's grossly cheap-looking to do no matter how well I do it. I would be willing to make a new portrait. 20081031 03:14:15 Espreon: Cute. Yes, I definirely think I need to mainline this. Only I'll call it "Skull Flag" or something. 20081031 03:14:17 Probably worth describing the circumstances. 20081031 03:14:22 Jetrel: OK. 20081031 03:14:39 -!- Mica [n=Manic_Mi@d14-69-222-189.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit ["What did you say? I can't hear you, my connection's gone."] 20081031 03:14:47 Heh, heh... I am eating the Halloween candy... 20081031 03:15:02 esr: what exactly are you looking for? 20081031 03:15:05 The Trick or Treaters are probably gonna kill me... 20081031 03:15:07 It's for Delfador's Memoirs, which has an incomplete set of Kitty portraits. 20081031 03:16:29 esr: I really wish Shadow Master made a flag colorizer... 20081031 03:16:52 Oh well... he made a team colorizer... one miracle at a time I suppose. 20081031 03:17:03 I frankensteined the Lionel portrait frm LoW's Aldar two nights ago (you should look at it to bes ure it passes your I-don't-vomit test). But we need to hack LoW's Cleodil to represent Chantal as I don't think Kitty will find time to do it. 20081031 03:18:29 The only complete new portrait we need is Iliah-Malal, human necromancer -- not a lich, but a stone nut-job. 20081031 03:18:58 esr: I will be back in a min... Gotta grab my Linux lappy! 20081031 03:19:00 -!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]"] 20081031 03:19:46 Frankensteining Cleodil sort of makes sense as Chantal is Cleodil's granddaughter. They *should* look similar. 20081031 03:20:10 * Jetrel is updating his trunk svn repo - is this a mainline campaign? 20081031 03:20:31 I don't have a copy in there right now, but it's been months since I updated. 20081031 03:20:50 It's uin the wesnoth-umc-dev repo. Not mainline yet but I'm hoping to get it in for !.6. 20081031 03:21:13 Want me to throw it on a photobucket site? 20081031 03:21:35 esr: well, I want to look at the whole portrait's directory 20081031 03:21:55 is the wesnoth-umc-dev repo viewable using gna's web-based viewsvn? 20081031 03:22:17 (if it's on the same svn server our other stuff is, that's a yes) 20081031 03:24:04 No, it's on a different site. Hold on, let me get the fetch command for you -- you really should have a checkout of it. 20081031 03:26:53 svn co https://wesnoth-umc-dev.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/wesnoth-umc-dev wesnoth-umc-dev 20081031 03:27:04 k 20081031 03:28:11 Jetrel: Do you have a SourceForge ID? If so, I'll give you dev access. 20081031 03:28:37 esr: yeah, one sec 20081031 03:29:58 -!- Espreon [n=espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 03:30:33 esr: I am back. 20081031 03:32:17 Yo soy triste. 20081031 03:32:45 That much Spanish I remember. What makes you sad? 20081031 03:33:02 Claws Mail broke out of the blue... 20081031 03:33:13 I think it has something to do with Pango. 20081031 03:33:24 I will try recompiling Pango... 20081031 03:34:08 esr: Isn't that horrible? 20081031 03:34:47 I've seen worse. 20081031 03:35:07 Please elaborate. 20081031 03:36:08 Espreon: windows me 20081031 03:36:44 Jetrel: Hmmmmmm? 20081031 03:36:47 LOL 20081031 03:36:54 Windows happened? 20081031 03:37:00 SOUNDS HORRIBLE. 20081031 03:37:04 No -- *don't* Windows me. *shudder* 20081031 03:37:18 Even Uria gets owned by Windows... it is that evil. 20081031 03:39:15 Jetrel: SourceForge ID? 20081031 03:39:21 esr: Correct? 20081031 03:39:37 * esr doesn't know what "Uria" is. 20081031 03:39:56 esr: uhm.. I think it might just be "jetryl" 20081031 03:40:28 esr: You know in IFtU that Argan mentions Uria? 20081031 03:40:37 It is that evil being of the Inferno. 20081031 03:40:49 I think that's the item you want; otherwise the email associated with it is kettering.richard (a) gmail.com 20081031 03:40:54 Ah, I had forgotten. 20081031 03:41:09 Jetrel: Trying... 20081031 03:41:58 Jetrel: You're in, as "jetryl". 20081031 03:42:13 ah 20081031 03:42:48 esr: I am curious... which distro do you use? 20081031 03:43:22 Ubuntu. 20081031 03:43:47 Ah Ubuntu... I remember when I used to use it... then I ditched it... 20081031 03:44:57 esr: right, so I'm downloading a repo copy right now - I think it was correctly authenticated with commit access. We'll worry about that later if it isn't. 20081031 03:45:20 *As you all probably realized, Espreon is an IFtU addict... In fact he played it at least 10 times!* 20081031 03:45:31 *Possibly more* 20081031 03:47:06 This may be a little while. 20081031 03:47:39 I personally like Ubuntu. It gives me everything I need and lets me get to the job of actually programming stuff while having to know as little distro-specific stuff as possible. 20081031 03:48:29 so many distros subject me to having to make choices that I truly care absolutely nothing about. 20081031 03:49:29 Crap, I lost my thumbdrive... 20081031 03:49:37 esr * r30440 /trunk/data/ (12 files in 4 dirs): 20081031 03:49:37 Factor the TROW Warrior King into a generic Rayal Warrior base unit plus 20081031 03:49:37 overlay, so we can use the Royal Warrior as a base for the various kings and 20081031 03:49:37 princes in the canon. 20081031 03:49:40 I had it with me 2 secs ago... 20081031 03:51:01 If I do not find it by tomorrow... I am changing all my passwords... 20081031 03:51:41 Well... maybe that is too extreme... 20081031 03:51:49 * esr agrees with Sirp about Ubuntu. 20081031 03:52:33 Meh, I do not like Ubuntu anymore... 20081031 03:52:49 Okay. The frankenstein of of lionel needs to go - it's nearly indistinguishable from the Aldar portrait. We need a portrait for Chantal, and for Iliah-Malal, and we need 2 new portraits for delfador-old, and methor, respectively. 20081031 03:53:06 That portrait for methor is a very old dacyn portrait I made, and it really needs to die, already. 20081031 03:53:23 Wha's wrong with the existing Methor and Delfador portraits? 20081031 03:53:50 esr: totally, completely disjoint with the style the others are in. Note that I drew both of them, also. 20081031 03:54:34 The nice thing is the delfador and chantal portraits will kill 2 birds with one stone, since they're useable in HttT. 20081031 03:55:32 Now to reformat my other drive... 20081031 03:56:01 esr: for one more objective example, compare the eye-size in my delfador, there, with the eye size in kitty's young_delfador. Mine's are over twice the relative size, I think. 20081031 03:56:01 Jetrel: True. 20081031 03:56:15 sp/mine's/fail 20081031 03:56:32 Hmmmm... 20081031 03:57:18 At the time, I wasn't sure if we were going to go in a vaguely anime direction (I'm kinda glad we didn't), and I was having trouble grappling with drawing in general. 20081031 03:58:11 I really wish Federalist Marshal and megane would come back and finish the Quenoth revamp. 20081031 03:58:38 I'm glad we didn't go anime either. I mildly dislike Konrard's portrait because I think it's got a bit too much anime-boy in it. 20081031 03:59:16 esr: yeah. I'm planning to replace the entire HttT set (sans Kalenz) with portraits in Kitty's style. 20081031 03:59:37 Konrad will look *much* different when I do. :] 20081031 03:59:40 -!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 03:59:41 That would be good. 20081031 03:59:45 Jetrel: I would love to see the result. 20081031 04:00:14 I was right. 20081031 04:00:20 It had something to do with Pango. 20081031 04:00:25 My basic plan is to have this TC business finished by new year's, and then switch major gears to making primarily portraits. 20081031 04:00:26 Well I fixed CM. 20081031 04:00:46 TC meaning all the updates to the sprites. The drakes, naga, and mermen remain. 20081031 04:01:29 I mean, there's a mountain of potential sprite work to do, and other animation upgrades, but the TC project is to provide the new base-frames of each of the units, so their appearance is locked-down. 20081031 04:02:07 Jetrel: It will be interesting working up Iliah-Malal with you. I visually a sort of acetic madman, like a Savanarola and wearing *white*, in a sort of mockery of mages of light. 20081031 04:02:20 s/acetic/scetic/ 20081031 04:02:25 Grrr. 20081031 04:02:37 s/acetic/ascetic/ 20081031 04:02:48 Having their appearance locked-down will be a landmark. We've been reaping the benefits of that already with the other 70-80% of the game that's been locked down, because the animation depth has exploded. 20081031 04:03:18 Anyhoo, descriptions. I know delfador, so that's good to go, and I'll rifle through all the campaign dialogue before I write them to get my ideas churning, but I'm interested in a quick capsule description for each of the four others. 20081031 04:03:26 now 3. :) 20081031 04:03:33 Ah. 20081031 04:03:36 OK. 20081031 04:03:59 Lionel. Brave, loyal, buff soldier type, not overly bright. 20081031 04:04:14 esr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girolamo_Savonarola ? 20081031 04:04:22 s/buff/bluff/ though I suppose he's buff too :-) 20081031 04:04:38 -!- Ivanovic_ [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db201f4.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 04:04:38 Jetrel: Yes, that Savonarola. 20081031 04:05:53 Think your basic high-cheekboned, burning-eyed nutter. 20081031 04:06:30 Does lionel strike you as taller, or shorter and huskier? 20081031 04:06:45 With resperct to who? 20081031 04:07:06 E.g. more of a baseball-player build, or a football build? 20081031 04:07:59 Footballer, definitely. Tough guy; doesn't go around what he can smash through. 20081031 04:08:13 m'kay. 20081031 04:09:26 Chantal; any unusual ideas besides making a relative of that other elf, and her being a druid? 20081031 04:09:46 Chantal: Shyde, gifted healer, intensely perceptive -- Kalenz's and Cleodil's granddaughter. It's a plot point that she reembles Cleodil enough that looking at her is a bit painful for Kalenz. 20081031 04:10:24 Do you know about the Kalenz tragedy thing that has developed out of the LoW revision? 20081031 04:10:41 Not quite. 20081031 04:10:55 OK, I'll explain, it's relevant. 20081031 04:12:23 It was part of santi's original design for Kalenz and Cleodil to have a romance plot. But he never exeecuted; I ended up writing the big love scene, in scenario 16, and my wife says it brings tears to her eyes. 20081031 04:12:40 They live happily ever after, *but*... 20081031 04:14:38 Cleodil only has a normal Elvish lifespan (canonivcally now 250-300 years) while Kalenz, due to the Philter of Crelanu, is quasi-immortal. Thus, the curse laid on him by Aqagar is fulfiled; Cleodil dies, he outlives his children, and is condemned to wancder alone. 20081031 04:15:21 He becomes a sort of knight errant who can never die, and must watch all he loves die, over and over again. 20081031 04:16:18 Dang. 20081031 04:16:20 So his relationship to Chantal is...complicated. Painful for him, and because she's such a sensitive that makes it painful for her, too. 20081031 04:16:38 That's a *good* storyline. 20081031 04:16:49 I'm rather proud if it. 20081031 04:17:46 The elements were present in LoW. but I gave them the razor edge. 20081031 04:20:31 Alright, so last on the list is Methor. 20081031 04:20:51 -!- Ivanovic [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db21c54.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081031 04:21:37 Your basic benevolent preceptorial sort of figure. He hasn't gotten much stage time so I don't have well-formed ideas about personakl quirks. I liked your portrait of him. 20081031 04:21:52 -!- Espreon_ [n=espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 04:22:29 Back. 20081031 04:22:37 -!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic 20081031 04:23:04 esr: yeah, that portrait was actually one of my first, from back in the 'really bad' days. I got really lucky on it, but it still has a few major issues. It was originally for the White Mage Dacyn, from Eastern Invasion. 20081031 04:23:46 I like the combination of fragility and iron will it suggests. 20081031 04:24:15 Hmm. 20081031 04:25:00 Wow... SM's TCing tool is awesome... 20081031 04:25:09 Are these the sorts of hints you find useful? 20081031 04:25:15 Very. 20081031 04:25:25 Good. 20081031 04:25:53 :( Now I just have to page back in my large-scale drawing skills, and hope I can shoot straight. 20081031 04:26:00 Heh. 20081031 04:26:19 Meanwhile, I'm larning how to draw maps :-) 20081031 04:27:29 esr: What type of maps? I assume you will use my awesome brushes... 20081031 04:27:42 It really can be a pain, trying to be competent at both drawing -and- coding. There's so much width to each field. 20081031 04:27:46 If they are the type I am thinking about and whatnot. 20081031 04:27:49 -anyways- 20081031 04:28:11 Those descriptions should give me what I need. I'm not going to have time for these in the immediate future (few weeks), but I'll make these the first portraits I work on. 20081031 04:28:15 Espreon: I think my next project may be a southward extensiion of the main map, for "The South Guard". 20081031 04:28:57 esr: After I am done with TSL I think I will make a campaign about the times of Yanqui. 20081031 04:30:02 Jetrel: Have fun and no pressure - eved if the AI bug gets fixed tomorrow 1.6 won't ship for months yet. 20081031 04:30:29 Also, I've run into breakage when downloading the svn repo from sourceforge. Towards the end(?) of it, it started downloading stuff from richard_kettering@svn.berlios.de 20081031 04:30:40 I wasn't aware I had an account at berlios. 20081031 04:30:56 Plus I thought this was on sourceforge's servers. 20081031 04:31:08 Jetrel: Another thing about Chantal: Her relationship with Delfador.... 20081031 04:31:15 (It asked me for my berlios password, and I don't have one, so it stopped there.) 20081031 04:31:18 Ooooh... 20081031 04:31:46 Jetrel: Not sure what's happening there. 20081031 04:31:48 I hate when it does that. 20081031 04:32:08 It did that when I tried to check out the tags section of the CUMC SVN repository. 20081031 04:33:32 Chantal isn't in love with Delfador. But she thinks she would be if she were human. For Delf...Chantal is the unattainable woman; he's not really in love with her easier, but feels a sort of wistful longing for what might have been if she were human. 20081031 04:33:47 s/easier/either/ 20081031 04:34:32 (There are more than hints of both sides in the DM dialogue as I have revised it.) 20081031 04:34:44 -!- Espreon [n=espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081031 04:35:11 -!- Espreon_ is now known as Espreon 20081031 04:35:21 Yeah. I like it - it gives some actual depth to our characters. 20081031 04:36:36 * Jetrel has some strong ideas on how to inject Heir to the Throne with a massive nuclear pile of character depth, but that's a spiel for another time. 20081031 04:36:56 One of my most successdful recent bits of writing is this, which is what we get when Kalenz first catches sight of Delfador, in the middle of a battle: 20081031 04:37:50 Delfador: Foul creatures, it is time for you to be sent to your final rest! 20081031 04:38:10 Chantal (to Kalenz): "That is Delfador. Do you see, now?" 20081031 04:38:24 Kalenz: "I do. He is a like a blazing fire to my inner eye. I think you have chosen well, granddaughter; he is indeed the one to whom the Book of Crelanu should pass." 20081031 04:38:37 Chantal: If I were human, I think I would be in love with him." 20081031 04:38:48 Kalenz: "If you were human, you would be quite right to be. Strange...they are such surly children in the main, short-lived and crude and quarrelsome. And yet, even our greatest mystics do not shine so brightly as this one." 20081031 04:39:05 Chantal: "I hope the Book does not doom him." 20081031 04:39:20 Kalenz: "You speak my thought, granddaughter. May it be so." 20081031 04:39:49 Ah, yes - I saw you post this. 20081031 04:41:11 I loke writingfor Wesnoth because it's such a tiny box -- you *have* to be economical, make a spare sentence do what a paragraph ordinarily would. It's like building a ship in a bottle, almost. 20081031 04:42:15 Speaking of economizations, this might be a smoother way to say delfador's line: 20081031 04:42:32 Delfador: Foul creatures, it is time for your final rest! 20081031 04:42:43 Done. 20081031 04:43:19 I think I will change "doom" to "destroy" as well. 20081031 04:43:54 Yeah, if only because of the overuse of doom. 20081031 04:44:30 Were you around when I posted How Delfador Got His Title? :-) 20081031 04:45:08 It's a pity, one of the many reasons behind "though shalt not take portentous/sacred words into casual usage" - it tends to really strip them of their kick. 20081031 04:45:14 esr: no 20081031 04:46:18 esr: also a side note I wanted to drop based on that - one thing I'd like to see done would be the traditional word in wesnoth, to refer to a mentoring mage figure, (treated like rabbi or sensei or sifu) would be Magister 20081031 04:46:42 OK, do you know about the Four Orackes odf Alduin prophestying that Delador would be know as "theGreat", "before his days are through". Take that as a given. 20081031 04:46:52 * esr agrees about Magister. 20081031 04:47:12 We used to call the latin teacher at my high school, that - or at least the cool kids who took latin did. 20081031 04:47:15 Iliah-Malal: "So we meet again, Delfador. You were a fool to turn down my offer. None of your allies will save you now." 20081031 04:47:22 Alas, that I was not among them. :/ 20081031 04:47:34 Delfador: message= _ "You have ravaged your own soul with your corrupt arts, and your words are empty wind; I fear them not." 20081031 04:47:57 Iliah-Malal: "Is he not amusing, my creatures? He puffs himself up as though he were Delfador the Mighty, Delfador the Powerful, Delfador the Great...rather than a jumped-up hedge wizard I shall shortly crush beneath my heel." 20081031 04:48:16 Delfador: "Delfador the Great, eh? And so it comes to pass as the four Oracles foretold. I accept your name-gift, Iliah-Malal." 20081031 04:48:31 Iliah-Malal: "Oracles? What nonsense you babble...after you die, I will raise your corpse and compel you to tell me how to reopen my portal!" 20081031 04:48:33 esr: but anyways, I was saying this towards the end of: in HttT, I'd like that to be both Konrad's, and perhaps a few of the other mage-character's "pet name" for delfador. 20081031 04:48:47 Delfador: "One of us will find a final death here. I do not think it will be me." 20081031 04:48:59 I'd be willing to implement that. 20081031 04:54:00 -!- Psyche^ [n=Psyche@e177233141.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 04:56:22 Psyche^: Welcome. 20081031 05:04:21 jetryl * r30441 /trunk/data/core/images/units/undead-skeletal/ (5 files): Added idle animation to deathblade. 20081031 05:05:00 *Espreon is gonna check it out and whatnot* 20081031 05:05:20 not yet you're not. 20081031 05:05:24 Jetrel: Completely different topic -- I has a Googlephone! 20081031 05:05:36 jetryl * r30442 /branches/1.4/data/core/units/undead/Skele_Deathblade.cfg: Added idle animation to deathblade. 20081031 05:05:47 Espreon: now you can. 20081031 05:05:55 :] 20081031 05:06:22 esr: yeah, I heard. They're looking pretty nice. 20081031 05:06:50 I'm hoping the combination of both of them in tandem can unseat the current mobile provider cartel. 20081031 05:06:57 Jetrel: When I check out new art I do not bother looking at it in-game. 20081031 05:07:48 And the RIAA, while they're at it - It still infuriates me that, for example, the RIAA mandates that apple put DRM on all their music, whilst allowing other select places (like amazon) to go DRM free. 20081031 05:08:22 Jetrel: It's already looking like that will happen. Just the fact that you can download arbitrary MP3s and attacj them to ring events is goinfg to flush the ring-tones scam/industry down the crapper. 20081031 05:08:35 Yeah. 20081031 05:08:44 RIAA's council or whatever = Satan's children. 20081031 05:09:02 -!- Patterner [n=Psyche@e177233172.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081031 05:09:04 -!- Psyche^ is now known as Patterner 20081031 05:09:12 I mean, I may be sort of middle of the road on this whole open-source thing. I run OS X, instead of linux, for example, and I'm a big apple fan. But I _hate_ DRM. 20081031 05:09:27 I finally got to do something I've wanted to for years -- attach my default ringtone to the communicator chirp from Start Trek Classic. 20081031 05:09:38 Hehe. 20081031 05:10:02 Jetrel: Gasp. 20081031 05:10:10 Jetrel: It's OK. I founded the movement, so I'm allowed not to be a fanatic about it :-) 20081031 05:10:12 I'm very glad that His Dark Majesty Steve has openly professed to also hate DRM. 20081031 05:10:17 -!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has quit ["Leaving"] 20081031 05:11:22 Oh great, someone is shooting fireworks... 20081031 05:11:41 Probably some guy celebrating the world series or something... 20081031 05:13:05 I've got a crap-o motorola throwaway phone, only because iPhone (or any smart-phone) data plans are _waay_ too expensive for my usage level, and I also carry my iPod Touch. 20081031 05:14:36 anyways, I need to hunker down and get some work done. 20081031 05:18:11 ................................................................. 20081031 05:18:13 WHY! 20081031 05:18:27 Espreon; ? 20081031 05:18:54 My ssh key hates me... 20081031 05:19:21 Oh finally it works! 20081031 05:19:35 @_@ 20081031 05:19:42 Uh, that was odd. 20081031 05:21:18 jetryl * r30443 /branches/1.4/data/core/images/units/undead-skeletal/ (5 files): Added idle animation to deathblade. 20081031 05:21:54 ... 20081031 05:22:17 jetryl * r30444 /trunk/data/core/units/undead/Skele_Deathblade.cfg: Added idle animation to deathblade. 20081031 05:22:38 crossed my wires - meant to commit trunk and 1.4 as two separate commits. Accidentally tried to do trunk images with 1.4 config files. 20081031 05:22:44 * Jetrel eyespin 20081031 05:23:27 SVN is fun... 20081031 05:29:08 I think I will use 1.4-SVN... 20081031 05:29:17 Instead of 1.4.5 20081031 05:32:54 -!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-43-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 05:33:23 noy: Hello. 20081031 05:33:27 hey 20081031 05:38:18 esr: When I fix the undead flag will it be applied to both trunk and 1.4? 20081031 05:47:03 -!- Rh0nda changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 49 bugs, 208 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclog.wesnoth.org and http://wesnoth.org/irclogs | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://rafb.net/paste, http://paste.debian.net, http://pastebin.ca 20081031 05:59:01 You know... I hate it that whenever I install something with portage it gets queued on equo's update list for it to be installed on equo... 20081031 05:59:53 Meh.... maybe I will go back to Debian-based distros... 20081031 06:11:26 jetryl * r30445 /trunk/data/core/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Added idle animation to arch-mage. 20081031 06:11:36 Yay... 20081031 06:11:59 jetryl * r30446 /branches/1.4/data/core/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Added idle animation to arch-mage. 20081031 06:12:34 Jetrel: Anything else? 20081031 06:12:40 yes 20081031 06:12:48 What else? 20081031 06:12:51 those, btw, are courtesy of Redeth. 20081031 06:13:06 you'll have to wait and see 20081031 06:15:38 Heh, nice... he gazes in his crystal ball... 20081031 06:16:54 Jetrel: Judging from the Deathblade's idle anim... I assume that he is insane... 20081031 06:17:01 Good stuff... 20081031 06:17:22 Redeth made it, not me. But yeah, it's good. 20081031 06:18:48 I wish the female Great Mage still had the fan... 20081031 06:20:38 Jetrel: Have you discovered SM's TCing tool? 20081031 06:21:24 No. But if it's to visualize what TC sprites would look like in wesnoth, my own wetware solution is pretty well-tuned these days. 20081031 06:21:49 Please elaborate. 20081031 06:22:25 I would use it, but it's not worth the trouble - I can now visualize what they look like really well in my head. 20081031 06:22:27 Yeah, it basically takes a sprite and produces copies of it in all nine mainline TC colors. 20081031 06:22:55 It might be useful, though. 20081031 06:23:10 Jetrel: Well... a good use for it is to catch pixels which would not be affected by TCing. 20081031 06:23:19 ...which should be. 20081031 06:23:35 It is pretty simple and nice. 20081031 06:23:39 Espreon: speaking of which - is SM around anymore? 20081031 06:23:46 I miss him. ;( 20081031 06:24:24 He was around a few days ago. 20081031 06:25:02 Plus he just made a post today on the dev forums. 20081031 06:25:04 good. 20081031 06:25:10 Jetrel: Do you want me to link you to the tarball in case you wanna check it out and whatnot? 20081031 06:26:25 Espreon: maybe later - I've already had overload tonight - I'm just trying to finish off a list of tasks and go to sleep. 20081031 06:26:46 Maybe if I'm lucky I'll get to do some free sketching tonight. It's been weeks since I've done that. 20081031 06:26:49 -!- [Relic] [n=[Relic]@adsl-76-229-220-201.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20081031 06:26:49 OK, I will link you to it tomorrow. 20081031 06:27:03 Jetrel: Whatcha plan on sketchin'? 20081031 06:27:15 *plannin' 20081031 06:27:22 @_@ How the hell should I know? 20081031 06:28:01 Ummmmm... magic? 20081031 06:28:21 Anyway, I will fix the undead flag soon... so yeah... 20081031 06:30:24 Hmmmm... I really think SM shouldn't have TC'd the crystal on Elenyia's staff... especially when he goes around saying it is the Ruby of Fire... 20081031 06:41:55 Jetrel: Is there enough time for a discussion between you and me? 20081031 06:42:14 sure 20081031 06:43:11 Anyway, I saw the nice chasm bridges... good stuff... But I think the older ones should recieve improvement as I think there should be natural and artifical flavors... What do you think about this? 20081031 06:44:30 -!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe11fa00-51.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 06:44:31 uhm... 20081031 06:44:37 zookeeper: Hello. 20081031 06:44:38 yo 20081031 06:44:55 as for the undead flag, where are you saying it should be wired in? 20081031 06:45:12 Damn, I don't really have a strong opinion either way. 20081031 06:45:15 AFAIK we're intentionally waiting until we got flags for all six factions before wiring any of them to the default era factions 20081031 06:45:35 but you can use the ones we have in campaigns if you want 20081031 06:45:46 zookeeper: esr supports my opinion of inserting code into mainline for it. 20081031 06:46:01 Wait! 20081031 06:46:06 esr: Yes? 20081031 06:46:07 Not yet! 20081031 06:46:12 esr: All right. 20081031 06:46:27 what code? 20081031 06:46:37 There is code for the undead flag in IFtU. 20081031 06:47:06 All I want to do is make the macros to enable the different flags available in core -- I'm not planning to wire them into campaigns or factions yet. 20081031 06:47:10 well, sure, feel free to add some UNDEAD_FLAG etc macros to core for the existing flags 20081031 06:47:21 esr: That is all I wanted to do. 20081031 06:47:25 great. 20081031 06:47:34 Well DiD could make use of the undead flag. 20081031 06:48:09 Speaking of which: Espreon,. would you please pastebin the definition of GREEN_IS_THE_FLAG_COLOR where I can copy it? 20081031 06:48:25 esr: Sure. 20081031 06:51:02 esr: http://rafb.net/p/c3c8mB43.html 20081031 06:54:28 esr: Are you gonna commit the code? 20081031 06:54:42 In a moment. 20081031 06:55:04 esr: I would also have DiD make use of it. 20081031 06:57:11 esr * r30447 /trunk/data/core/macros/image-utils.cfg: Add FLAG_VARIANT macro to do what it sounds like. 20081031 06:57:47 *Espreon runs svn update* 20081031 06:58:50 esr: I think SM's fake shroud terrain should be mainlined... There would be a use for it... in DiD. 20081031 06:59:05 I'm off to sleep. 20081031 06:59:22 esr: Should I have DiD make use of that macro? 20081031 06:59:36 Espreon, ...where? 20081031 06:59:42 In DiD... 20081031 06:59:55 I won't objrect, but zookeeper has stake in that too. 20081031 06:59:58 Malin's side after he is baniished. 20081031 07:00:02 *banished 20081031 07:00:21 ok 20081031 07:00:23 esr: Good night 20081031 07:00:31 zookeeper: I will get to work. 20081031 07:04:16 -!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 07:05:27 zookeeper: I will also give the undead flag to the rebel undead in scenario 3 and to Darken Volk when he betrays Malin... OK? 20081031 07:08:15 the rebel undead can't get villages 20081031 07:08:16 but sure 20081031 07:17:15 -!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe11fa00-51.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 20081031 07:17:25 -!- mordante [n=chatzill@roadie.xs4all.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 07:18:07 morning 20081031 07:18:26 -!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-43-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit ["GO, GET TO THE CHOPPAH!!!"] 20081031 07:19:53 modante: Hola. 20081031 07:20:01 hi Espreon 20081031 07:22:24 I am haviŋ fun tonight... 20081031 07:22:48 good 20081031 07:22:59 Undead flags and all... 20081031 07:23:38 I just need to finish compiling wesnoþ trunk so I can test it... 20081031 07:24:31 maybe you should translate wesnoth to old English ;) 20081031 07:25:38 Indeed I should. 20081031 07:25:57 In case a portal to þose times opens... 20081031 07:26:42 mordante: Do you þink Ivanovic will accept Old Eŋlish as a valid translation? 20081031 07:27:00 why not, we also have latin 20081031 07:27:26 We should also include Old Norse... 20081031 07:27:43 It should all be in Youŋer Fuþark runes... 20081031 07:28:04 Also we should have Proto-Norse... it will be in Elder Fuþark runes... 20081031 07:28:42 Then we would need to include the Junicode font as Dejavu does not support runes. 20081031 07:28:48 Thankfully Junicode is GPLed. 20081031 07:30:09 well fonts only get include once a translation has a major part translated, but of course we can host the font before that and explain how to install it 20081031 07:31:47 mordante: Why not? I want to learn Old Norse and improve my knowledge of Old Eŋlish... I am probably þe only one wiþ any motivation to learn þose laŋuages, therefore I would be a great translator and whatnot... 20081031 07:32:54 not sure I assume to keep the size of the tarball down 20081031 07:33:03 mordante: Imagine it... Espreon, the Old Eŋlish and the Old Norse translator of Wesnoþ. 20081031 07:33:20 *þe 20081031 07:33:31 & *þe 20081031 07:33:32 well I would look at the old English one 20081031 07:34:07 Old Norse is just for fun as it would all be in Youŋer Fuþark. 20081031 07:34:49 I would probably be better with Proto-Norse, since it uses Elder Fuþark, and I am knowledgable with it. 20081031 07:35:01 in fact last week I read Ivanhoe which had quite some old English in it, was fun to read :) 20081031 07:35:22 but only using the roman alphabet 20081031 07:35:30 ;_; you're making me feel cretinous 20081031 07:35:38 I still haven't read Ivanhoe. 20081031 07:35:54 mordante: It is actually the Latin alphabet... 20081031 07:36:16 mordante: Þ and ŋ are part of it. 20081031 07:36:37 It is just that Modern Eŋlish does not use them... which is ludicrious... 20081031 07:36:46 WHY REPLACE ONE LETTER WITH TWO! 20081031 07:37:11 Espreon ok but I mean it only uses the common 26 letters of the latin alphabet 20081031 07:37:18 For easier printing using foreign (continental european?) printing machines? 20081031 07:37:30 and I also hate it when Germans use two letters instead of one :/ 20081031 07:37:42 Espreon: because for a while there, the brits were really trying to be french 20081031 07:38:03 Even forbidding constructions like "to gladly teach", because it split the infinitive. 20081031 07:38:04 Actually þorn is Scandanavian... 20081031 07:38:08 Jetrel well it's a nice book, I can recommend it 20081031 07:38:08 -!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit ["Power failu"] 20081031 07:39:00 Ostensibly, þorn belonged to a certain dialect of Eŋlish and it was overcome by þe retarded London dialect... 20081031 07:39:51 Languages do stupid shit. 20081031 07:40:04 C.f. Japanese and Kanji. What were they thinking? 20081031 07:40:14 Hmmmmm? 20081031 07:40:19 well people do stupid shit ;) 20081031 07:40:24 C.f. Japanese? 20081031 07:40:58 Espreon: the koreans were much smarter in this regard; they ditched their chinese characters for phonetic syllables. 20081031 07:41:18 I always use þorn and iŋwaz when writiŋ on paper. 20081031 07:41:31 Hmmmmm... 20081031 07:41:35 The japanese -have- phonetic syllables in their hiragana and katakana, and could use them for the entire language, but don't. 20081031 07:41:55 My name parsed in katakana is funny... 20081031 07:42:12 Personally, my favorite writing system is arabic. Arabic calligraphy is gorgeous. 20081031 07:42:19 Meh... 20081031 07:42:33 My favorite writing system is Elder Fuþark... 20081031 07:42:34 Espreon: what. Have you ever seen any? 20081031 07:42:38 Yes... 20081031 07:42:39 A good feature of an alphabet is that letters are clearly distinctive. You cant say that about arabic. 20081031 07:43:19 Jetrel: Elder Fuþark is awesome... it is phonetic and it looks friggin' awesome. 20081031 07:43:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Square-kufio-cross-istfen-1995-02.jpg 20081031 07:43:39 Espreon: can you toss me a wikipedia link to examples? 20081031 07:44:06 Sure thing Jetrel... 20081031 07:44:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Caligrafia_arabe_pajaro.jpg 20081031 07:44:36 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Runic_letter_fehu.png/24px-Runic_letter_fehu.png 20081031 07:44:43 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Runic_letter_uruz.png/24px-Runic_letter_uruz.png 20081031 07:44:51 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/Runic_letter_ehwaz.png/24px-Runic_letter_ehwaz.png 20081031 07:44:57 \http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Runic_letter_mannaz.png/24px-Runic_letter_mannaz.png 20081031 07:45:02 Espreon: oh, yeah, I'm familiar with that. 20081031 07:45:25 It's pretty sweet. 20081031 07:45:41 I would say that Runes like that have a certain cryptic appeal to them, but they are not as beautiful as script like Arabic 20081031 07:45:48 perhaps because they tend not to have curves 20081031 07:45:57 Jetrel: Nope, it all looks the same to me (Arabic). Also þanks for almost agreeing with me. 20081031 07:46:04 That said, it can't do cursive calligraphy for the same reason arabic doesn't lend itself to nice single-character block forms. 20081031 07:46:05 Curves are bad... 20081031 07:46:29 anyways I'm off to bed 20081031 07:46:31 night all. 20081031 07:46:32 -!- Sirp [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 20081031 07:46:36 Espreon: well, you're closed-minded. 20081031 07:46:39 My hand writing is terrible... When I write in runes... my handwriting is much better... 20081031 07:46:58 Jetrel: I am not... I do pretty obscure things... 20081031 07:47:06 I just do not like Arabic... 20081031 07:47:41 No, I just stated that. You are closed minded, because you don't like it, and you don't have a good reason for it. 20081031 07:47:58 I do not like it because I would suck at writing it... 20081031 07:48:13 It looks all bunched togeþer... 20081031 07:48:17 FINALLY! 20081031 07:48:24 I am finished with my world update! 20081031 07:48:38 Well then learn. That's like arguing that bikes suck because you're not good at riding one and you fall down. 20081031 07:48:52 OR, like arguing that command-lines suck because you don't know how to use them. 20081031 07:48:54 The world still looks the same to me :P 20081031 07:48:55 Why should I learn? 20081031 07:49:05 Jetrel: I love the command-line. 20081031 07:49:24 Espreon: QUID ERAM DEMONSTRADO. (or however that's spelled) 20081031 07:49:49 Unless I have a good reason (to me) to do someþing... I do not do it... 20081031 07:49:59 I have no good reason to learn Arabic... 20081031 07:50:28 Now. 20081031 07:50:41 Jetrel: What is your favorite laŋuage? 20081031 07:50:42 You don't have a good reason to learn Elder Fuþark either. 20081031 07:50:47 I do! 20081031 07:50:54 Who reads it? 20081031 07:50:59 The ancients. 20081031 07:51:05 I am gonna go read runestones... 20081031 07:51:10 *kills the go. 20081031 07:51:37 Aka your reason is "it's cool". 20081031 07:51:46 No. 20081031 07:52:04 I seriously wanna go to Europe and read a runestone once I learn Proto-Norse. 20081031 07:52:04 Espreon: if it's not you day job, you're doing it because it's cool. 20081031 07:52:15 No, I do it because I love it. 20081031 07:52:21 Jetrel: What is your favorite language. 20081031 07:52:27 THAT'S EQUIVALENT. 20081031 07:52:35 Not in my world. 20081031 07:52:52 This is inane. 20081031 07:53:00 What the heck? 20081031 07:53:04 Indeed it is. 20081031 07:53:12 You're studying it because you enjoy doing it. 20081031 07:53:21 Not because you *need* to do it. 20081031 07:53:40 You're not doing it to put food on the table. 20081031 07:53:40 Exactly. 20081031 07:53:46 Or... will I? 20081031 07:54:06 And what I'm saying is - studying other forms of calligraphy are a similar endeavour. 20081031 07:54:07 In addition, I would not enjoy learning Arabic. 20081031 07:54:30 Maybe you wouldn't enjoy them, but saying they're objectively bad is being closed-minded. 20081031 07:54:43 I am not saying it is bad. 20081031 07:54:55 You just said curves are bad. 20081031 07:55:00 TO ME. 20081031 07:55:08 Well, there you go. 20081031 07:55:16 Damn, compile errors... 20081031 07:55:32 * Jetrel grabs a brick wall and buries his head in it. 20081031 07:55:54 Anyway, what is your favorite laŋuage? 20081031 07:56:32 tentatively, hungarian, for being much more systematic than most langauges, and 'logical' in that regard. 20081031 07:57:11 I like Spanish. 20081031 07:57:23 I am not going to specify the reason I like it... 20081031 07:57:50 Spanish is cool, moreso when it's verb tenses are used for their economization of word use. 20081031 07:58:20 Let's just say... I like to trrill... 20081031 07:58:43 A similar principle in latin comes from that famous caesar quote (spelling probably borked), veni, vini, vici 20081031 07:59:01 I came, I saw, I conquered - in english, it's twice the words. 20081031 07:59:32 Isn't it horrifying! 20081031 08:00:05 Yes and no. 20081031 08:00:12 Or, both ways. 20081031 08:00:37 The proliferation of verb tenses is a stiff barrier to entry for learning the language. 20081031 08:00:57 But once you know it, it saves a lot of unecessary verbiage. 20081031 08:01:08 Esprreon likes to trrill... 20081031 08:01:51 I had a chinese friend of mine who was bitching to me about how incredibly difficult it was to learn the verb tenses of english, and I was like "oh, shit, wait till you meet spanish". 20081031 08:02:05 Understand, when I say this, that chinese has no verb tenses. 20081031 08:02:20 Really? 20081031 08:02:42 None - you insert words, if and only if necessary, to indicate temporal alignment. 20081031 08:02:51 Same for plurality. 20081031 08:03:21 In chinese, the english phrase "The soldiers crossed the bridge" comes out as "soldier cross bridge" 20081031 08:03:32 Muy intersante. 20081031 08:03:39 WOW! THAT SOUNDS AWESOME! 20081031 08:04:23 If you need to qualify those words, you add individual words to give them additional meanings. 20081031 08:05:15 It's actually got some really nice points to it. Unfortunate that their printed language is the complete opposite in terms of idealization. 20081031 08:06:24 Jetrel: I wish Federalist Marshal and megane would come back and whatnot... 20081031 08:06:43 Their printed language is the ideographic characters. Although some characters are composed of miniature versions of other characters (called radicals), there's still a staggering amount of rote memorization you have to do to get a working vocabulary. 20081031 08:06:45 -!- ABCD [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has quit [Client Quit] 20081031 08:07:39 So bad, to the point that they apparently (or so a chinese friend says), use the roman alphabet for punctuation hints (like HTML ruby texts) to teach pronunciation to schoolkids. 20081031 08:07:58 Hmmmm... 20081031 08:08:26 Mandarin scholar-officials could afford to learn it the old way, but a world where everyone is literate requires a more effective approach. 20081031 08:09:00 Jetrel: What will happen if they do not come back and whatnot? 20081031 08:09:32 Espreon: their projects will rot on the vine unless someone picks them up where they left off. 20081031 08:09:58 It's the reality of any work, sadly. 20081031 08:10:15 Jetrel: UtBS cannot suffer the same fate as tDH... 20081031 08:10:44 Espreon: then it is up to someone to save it. 20081031 08:11:04 I could ask my good friend Quietus to do it... 20081031 08:11:08 Unfortunately, I'm tied up making sure our basic game art doesn't end up as an unfinished project. :/ 20081031 08:11:37 Then again he needs to finish the Minotaurs, the Elemental Monarchs, and he needs to animate the Verlisshi... 20081031 08:11:45 Minotaurs are almost done. 20081031 08:11:54 Elemental Monarchs have only five units. 20081031 08:12:20 And the Verlisshi only needs 5 - 7 units animated. 20081031 08:12:59 Jetrel: I think Quietus will be UtBS' hero... 20081031 08:13:28 Would be nice. 20081031 08:13:35 jetryl * r30448 /trunk/data/core/ (10 files in 2 dirs): Added an idle animation by EELuminatus for the orcish assassin. 20081031 08:13:53 *Espreon runs svn update* 20081031 08:14:18 jetryl * r30449 /branches/1.4/data/core/ (10 files in 2 dirs): Added an idle animation by EELuminatus for the orcish assassin. 20081031 08:15:42 Espreon: if you don't mind my prying, I'm curious to exchange proper introductions. 20081031 08:16:06 Jetrel: Hmmmmm? 20081031 08:16:21 My name's Richard, I'm from minnesota, and I'm 25 yrs old. 20081031 08:16:31 And you know what I do for wesnoth. 20081031 08:17:03 These are all things I don't know about you, though I could probably care less about the name. 20081031 08:17:39 Just wondering where you're from, what generation you're from, and what you do for wesnoth. 20081031 08:18:02 My name is Steven, I am from Pennsylvania; I am 15 years old. I am the co-maintainer of UtBS, I made some cool cartography GIMP brushes, I am the maintainer of the EoM, I am the coder of the Minotaurs and I am working on TSL (my indirect sequel to IFtU). 20081031 08:19:54 * Jetrel nods 20081031 08:20:10 ;_; Jesus I feel old. 20081031 08:21:05 I have a lot of Wesnoth-related stuff on my plate. 20081031 08:21:10 * Jetrel makes an epic pose and cries out with a thundering voice. "This guy is a whole -decade- younger than me!" When did I get a decade away from 15? 20081031 08:22:06 Heh. 20081031 08:25:38 jetryl * r30450 /trunk/images/icons/ (icons-abilities.png icons-numbers.png icons-resistances.png): Added icons for resistances and unit abilities, by Melon. 20081031 08:26:03 -!- miq [n=miq@krlh-5d85406c.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 08:26:06 I guess Melon can be considered a contributor now... 20081031 08:26:11 miq: Hola. 20081031 08:26:38 espreon * r30451 /trunk/data/campaigns/Descent_Into_Darkness/scenarios/ (11 files): * Had Malin's side use the ostensibly obscure undead flag after his banishment. Also made Darken Volk's side use it when he betrays Malin. 20081031 08:27:44 Jetryl: So, how is this gonna work? 20081031 08:28:21 -!- YogiHH [i=YogiHH@c203152.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 08:28:35 YogiHH: Hello Yogi. 20081031 08:28:45 hi Espreon 20081031 08:29:12 Espreon: huh? Those images can be used by code Shadow_Master made to select a rectangular subset. 20081031 08:29:21 And I need to check out for the night. 20081031 08:29:25 * Jetrel tips hat. 20081031 08:29:32 hi YogiHH 20081031 08:29:33 night Jetrel 20081031 08:29:39 hi mordante 20081031 08:29:47 bye yogi 20081031 08:29:54 bye mordante 20081031 08:29:56 night Jetrel 20081031 08:30:21 Bye Jetrel. 20081031 08:30:36 I should have used "Made" instead of "Had"... oh well... 20081031 08:31:08 -!- Jetrel [n=Jetryl@mn-10k-dhcp1-151.dsl.hickorytech.net] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20081031 08:32:15 mordante: I wish SM's fake shroud terrain would be mainlined. 20081031 08:32:53 Espreon what does it do? 20081031 08:33:53 It makes a shade of opaque darkness overlayed on the terrain. 20081031 08:34:08 you have a screenshot? 20081031 08:34:14 No. 20081031 08:34:19 I cannot compile DiD. 20081031 08:34:24 I mean Wesnoth 20081031 08:34:39 I keep getting errors involving cairo... 20081031 08:34:49 it's in DiD? 20081031 08:34:57 It would be useful in DiD. 20081031 08:35:01 can you paste your errors? 20081031 08:35:09 Sure. 20081031 08:39:40 -!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20081031 08:39:46 Any moment now... 20081031 08:41:30 http://rafb.net/p/yhhhvc72.html 20081031 08:41:39 mordante: Enjoy. 20081031 08:43:24 which version of pangocairo do you use? 20081031 08:44:04 Lemme check 20081031 08:44:47 Pango - 1.22 Cairo - 1.6.4 20081031 08:46:40 I use pango 1.20 and cairo 1.6.4 and have no problem 20081031 08:46:50 ... 20081031 08:47:17 which distro do you use. 20081031 08:47:19 ? 20081031 08:47:32 Sabayon... 20081031 08:48:46 can you try with pango 1.20? 20081031 08:49:23 *cries* 20081031 08:52:47 mordante: Kitty's Anlidë portrait is great... is it not? 20081031 08:54:00 -!- ABCD [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 08:54:15 ABCD: Hola ABCD. 20081031 08:54:46 ...I'm not really here, about to go to bed (it's 0354 in my timezone...) 20081031 08:54:56 Same here. 20081031 08:55:18 ABCD: Did you see kitty's Anlidë portrait? 20081031 08:55:35 -!- YogiHH [i=YogiHH@c203152.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 20081031 08:56:38 ...I haven't looked in Art Workshop in ages - didn't realize that Kitty was working in there now :) 20081031 08:57:38 She's working on IFtU. 20081031 08:58:20 Espreon it looks nice at the moment, but I'm sure it will look great after shading, she really is a great artist :) 20081031 08:58:43 I always appreciate kitty's work. 20081031 08:59:04 me too 20081031 08:59:36 I also enjoyed this thread http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22670 20081031 09:00:07 Me too. 20081031 09:02:09 -!- miq [n=miq@krlh-5d85406c.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081031 09:02:42 mordante: Pango was the culprit. 20081031 09:02:53 Put not having 1.2.2 has Claws Mail break... 20081031 09:03:10 ? 20081031 09:03:27 mordante: Hmmmmm? 20081031 09:03:29 *But 20081031 09:04:47 I think I will downgrade Claws Mail... 20081031 09:05:11 what do you mean "[09:02] Put not having 1.2.2 has Claws Mail break..." 20081031 09:06:13 If I downgrade Pango... Claws Mail fails to work.... 20081031 09:07:16 ok, well wesnoth is more important anyway :P 20081031 09:07:21 Yes. 20081031 09:07:56 mordante: Which distro do you use? 20081031 09:08:06 debian 20081031 09:08:20 As you heard, I use Sabayon. 20081031 09:08:27 I used to use Ubuntu... but yeah... 20081031 09:08:35 My first distro was Puppy... 20081031 09:08:47 never used Ubuntu 20081031 09:09:10 I suggest you stick with Debian. 20081031 09:09:31 would be hard to convince to switch away from Debian ;) 20081031 09:09:32 I prefer Sabayon to other distributions. 20081031 09:09:43 *over 20081031 09:09:55 what makes it better as gentoo? 20081031 09:10:06 (at least better for you) 20081031 09:10:57 It is quicker to install and you can choose to install something from source or from a binary. 20081031 09:11:32 I prefer to install most things from source as they would be optimized for my machine. 20081031 09:11:45 *It is much quicker 20081031 09:12:18 yes I consider to do the for some core components but haven't gotten around it 20081031 09:13:18 Well, downgrading Claws Mail worked. 20081031 09:13:56 Seriously, it will take a lot to get me to go back to Debian-based distros. 20081031 09:16:01 well that's the great thing about various distros everybody can pick it favourite one :D 20081031 09:16:44 I have the best of both worlds on Sabayon. 20081031 09:17:35 "It is much quicker" any facts to back that up? 20081031 09:18:01 Let's just say... I do not like compiling EVERY SINGLE THING for source...' 20081031 09:18:08 I do not have enough time to do that... 20081031 09:18:13 I would love to do it though... 20081031 09:18:46 so you meant installation time is quicker? 20081031 09:19:04 Yes. 20081031 09:23:14 I love symbolic linking... 20081031 09:30:15 mordante: Have any spare time? 20081031 09:30:41 not much I'm at work but what do you want to know? 20081031 09:31:15 mordante: When you are not at work would you test drive my campaign? 20081031 09:33:21 mordante: Would you? 20081031 09:34:18 Soliton: How 'bout you? 20081031 09:34:18 sorry I don't have time for that :( I'm very busy with coding for Wesnoth. 20081031 09:34:40 we slowly start to aim for 1.6 and there are some things I need to finish before that 20081031 09:34:49 mordante: Well if you ever wanna take a break... you could always play my campaign. 20081031 09:34:59 mainly better support for Kitty's new portraits :) 20081031 09:35:12 mordante: Yes, fabi and I are gonna do a lot to UtBS! 20081031 09:35:23 -!- ilor [n=a@77-253-64-197.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 09:35:24 (there is a reason why we want 400x400 transparent images) 20081031 09:35:37 And that reason would be... 20081031 09:36:01 but you might ask zookeeper later to test your campaign 20081031 09:36:17 Why, he has lots of free time? 20081031 09:36:31 just run wesnoth -t and go to IIRC 18,10 20081031 09:37:00 mordante: Fabi and I will add a lot of cool stuff to UtBS... sounds cool? 20081031 09:37:00 zookeeper seems to have more free time and he does a lot of campaign play testing 20081031 09:37:12 yes since I love UtbS 20081031 09:37:26 btw what's your campaign? 20081031 09:37:33 My campaign, TSL is a post-UtBS and a post-IFtU campaign BTW. 20081031 09:38:02 After I finish TSL I will work on a campaign which takes place around when Yanqui was around. 20081031 09:38:18 TSL ? 20081031 09:38:28 TSL = The Silver Lands 20081031 09:38:53 It is a long 25-30 scenario campaign which takes place after IFtU. 20081031 09:39:18 It takes place in the lands east of Wesnoth. 20081031 09:40:20 also haven't found time yet to look at IFtU :( 20081031 09:40:37 mordante: IFtU is awesome. 20081031 09:40:56 * mordante admits haven't been playing wesnoth for several months... only been hacking wesnoth lately 20081031 09:41:15 did you try the test scenario? 20081031 09:42:03 Whaddaya mean? 20081031 09:42:13 just run wesnoth -t and go to IIRC 18,10 20081031 09:42:49 AWESOME! 20081031 09:44:18 THIS IS AWESOME! 20081031 09:44:27 yes but it still needs quite some work before I can use it in game and I want to have it ready before 1.6 20081031 09:44:59 RED TROLL! 20081031 09:46:32 AWESOME! 20081031 09:47:14 mordante: My campaign has awesome features BTW... It is also my first real attempt at a campaign. 20081031 09:48:58 -!- loonybot [n=loonybot@79.139.247.109] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 09:49:36 -!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.247.109] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 09:49:47 mordante: I am scared... 20081031 09:50:05 But it is awesome nonetheless... 20081031 09:50:26 well I might have time to play when we stabilize 1.6 since I need to test a log 20081031 09:50:29 lot* 20081031 09:50:35 why scared? 20081031 09:50:42 mordante: She just popped out of nowhere... 20081031 09:50:45 It was scary... 20081031 09:50:48 But awesome! 20081031 09:51:27 mordante: Want a little taste of my campaigns' 20081031 09:51:32 's features? 20081031 09:51:37 yes 20081031 09:52:00 Well, one is a fake unit which is actually a macro which creates an astral projection of a unit in a scenario. 20081031 09:52:18 The projection is transparent of course... 20081031 09:52:35 mordante: Cool? 20081031 09:56:36 sounds interesting 20081031 09:57:56 Also whenever I have a bat change into a vampire and vice-versa the entity will glow blood red and get more and more transparent then it gets more opaque as it turns into its product form. 20081031 09:59:41 mordante: Cool? 20081031 10:02:27 -!- Tigge [n=tigge@bacchus.olf.sgsnet.se] has quit [] 20081031 10:02:59 Good-bye. 20081031 10:03:03 -!- Espreon [n=espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081031 10:03:45 moin 20081031 10:05:09 Mild attack of insomnia. 20081031 10:06:04 -!- Espreon [n=espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 10:06:49 Meh, I am not done yet... 20081031 10:07:12 mordante: Did you see Melon's Lunarian faction yet? It looks very interesting. 20081031 10:07:27 Ivanovic: We cut another scenario out of Delfador's Memoirs today. And I have been bearing myself up working on it in order to be able to tell you that it could enter translation freeze *now*. There isn't going to be any month odf screwing with the story text this time. 20081031 10:08:11 -!- ilor [n=a@unaffiliated/ilor] has quit [] 20081031 10:08:19 esr: I committed the changes to DiD. 20081031 10:08:46 hi Ivanovic 20081031 10:09:12 s/bearing/beating/ 20081031 10:09:16 Espreon yes the vampire stuff looks like fun 20081031 10:09:17 esr: and is the campaign already on the trunk addon server? 20081031 10:09:38 and have you told torangan to add it to wescamp there and run a pot update for the campaign? 20081031 10:09:48 No. I'll probably publish it tomorrow. 20081031 10:09:55 i would like to see the impact of this translation on the games amount of strings 20081031 10:10:14 Espreon no haven't seen it, I really need to play a bit more 20081031 10:10:41 esr just upload it to the addon server with the translatable flag set and ping me 20081031 10:11:07 then I'll run the update routine and torangan will get an email about a new translation pending 20081031 10:11:09 mordante: The thread was started today I think... so you did not miss it ingame as it was not yet created. 20081031 10:11:24 "with the translatable fla set"? How do I ensure that? 20081031 10:12:33 "In order to enable the automatic upload add the following line to your .pbl: translate=true" 20081031 10:12:42 Ivanovic: However, not all is rose blossoms. With the AI broken we cannot balance-test it the way we need to. 20081031 10:12:50 mordante: Thanks. 20081031 10:13:13 LoW, of course, has the same problem. 20081031 10:15:22 Espreon might be fun at least it seems melon can do some graphics, hopefully also pixel art 20081031 10:16:29 mordante: There are two things I would love to be updated, 20081031 10:16:43 The Ancient Lich and the Goblin Pillager. 20081031 10:18:38 Espreon: Did you compile pango and claws mail and pango or used equo? 20081031 10:18:47 s/pango// 20081031 10:18:58 loonycyborg: I resolved the issue. 20081031 10:19:03 s/compile/emerge 20081031 10:19:39 I never had such issues with purely compiled gentoo. 20081031 10:19:56 Perhaps that was binary incompatibility? 20081031 10:20:15 No, I compiled both. 20081031 10:20:58 I think Wesnoth trunk does not like Pango 1.2.2 20081031 10:21:27 well it's a linker error so wesnoth likes it 20081031 10:22:00 Most likely you just needed to upgrade cairo too. 20081031 10:22:26 Cairo was up-to-date. 20081031 10:22:51 I think. 20081031 10:22:55 ... but who cares? 20081031 10:23:01 Everything is fine now. 20081031 10:23:22 Good point. 20081031 10:24:26 Now to compile 1.4 SVN... 20081031 10:26:34 esr: Yay, it worked. 20081031 10:26:37 Espreon: is your campaign finished in the number of scenarios? 20081031 10:27:02 Soliton: There is only one finished scenario. 20081031 10:27:12 oh. 20081031 10:27:15 But it is fun nonetheless. 20081031 10:27:48 I am curious... Why is the apprentice mage's "magic blast" attack have the mud glob icon? 20081031 10:28:17 You guys are right... 1.5x's AI is dumb... 20081031 10:28:29 The leader confronted me on the second turn. 20081031 10:29:25 what did he say? 20081031 10:29:31 Who? 20081031 10:29:41 the leader. 20081031 10:29:46 Nothing... 20081031 10:29:58 I am playing DiD... second scenario. 20081031 10:30:07 esr's flag variation code works. 20081031 10:31:17 I just need to fix the undead flag, 20081031 10:31:58 Working on mainline is really fun... 20081031 10:46:20 esr * r30452 /trunk/data/ (core/macros/image-utils.cfg tools/wesnoth/wmltools.py): wmlscope pacification. 20081031 10:46:26 Yay? 20081031 10:48:09 esr * r30453 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/ (13 files in 2 dirs): Experimental use of Knalgan flag variant. Also, fix an oops with journey tracks. 20081031 10:52:22 esr: Sorry... unless I can get SM's TCizer to work with flag colors I will not be able to fix the undead flag... I will go to sleep now... 20081031 10:52:36 I will try to make the TC'er work with flag colors... 20081031 10:52:52 Understood. 20081031 10:53:35 Bye. 20081031 10:53:37 -!- Espreon [n=espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081031 11:03:00 -!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 11:03:49 -!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe11fa00-51.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 11:14:06 -!- EdB [n=EdB@215.153.82-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 11:20:19 esr * r30454 /trunk/data/tools/trackplacer: trackplacer: document failed attempt at a feature so it won't be tried again. 20081031 11:22:24 zookeeper * r30455 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_South_Guard/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Various cleanups. 20081031 11:27:27 -!- mjs-de [n=mjs-de@vpw.wh.Uni-Dortmund.DE] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 11:32:42 zookeeper * r30456 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_South_Guard/scenarios/05_Choice_In_The_Fog.cfg: Extended the scenario end dialogue in an attempt to have it connect better with the bandit branch. 20081031 11:33:34 esr, r30456 is the dialogue tweak i mentioned, maybe you want to glance at it. it should make the bandit branch plot make much more sense. 20081031 11:33:52 I'll look at it, yes. 20081031 11:38:54 -!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Hi! I'm a quit message virus vaccine. If you see a quit message virus, don't replace your quit message with it!"] 20081031 11:41:26 zookeeper * r30457 /trunk/data/core/macros/utils.cfg: Made SCATTER_UNITS handle running out of valid spots better. 20081031 11:58:13 zookeeper * r30458 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): An almost complete rewrite of 'The Long March', although the basic idea remains the same. Needs a bit of balance testing. 20081031 11:58:31 phew. 20081031 11:59:02 i think that scenario is good now...for the fourth time or so. 20081031 12:11:59 -!- loonycyborg_ [n=sergey@79.139.246.94] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 12:12:17 ivanovic * r30459 /trunk/po/ (3 files in 3 dirs): add files not listed, remove outdated (and now removed) files 20081031 12:12:19 -!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.247.109] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20081031 12:12:22 -!- loonycyborg_ is now known as loonycyborg 20081031 12:12:49 -!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.4.6 planned for sunday | 49 bugs, 208 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclog.wesnoth.org and http://wesnoth.org/irclogs | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://rafb.net/paste, http://paste.debian.net, http://pastebin.ca 20081031 12:13:45 zookeeper: Concept good, English usage off in very minor ways. For example, a native speaker would reply to "if Ethiliel will permit it" not with "Indeed I do." but "Indeed I will."; "Indeed I do would imply that permission had already been given and was continuing. I'll polish a bit. 20081031 12:19:57 -!- loonybot [n=loonybot@79.139.247.109] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081031 12:20:25 mordante: ping? 20081031 12:20:58 esr pong 20081031 12:21:43 ivanovic * r30460 /branches/1.4/doc/man/Makefile.am: backport r30403 (Check availability of manpages before installing them) by ettin to 1.4.x 20081031 12:22:14 About the new transparent-background policy on portraits; I can GIMP some of those conversions. Do you want a 1-pixel blackline around the portrait edges or not? 20081031 12:22:34 (I recommend it.) 20081031 12:23:28 I think a 1 pixel border would look silly, but you can test it by adding it to one of the units used in the test scenario 20081031 12:24:00 better leave that to jetryl and co, i'd expect them to want the borders in a very specific way 20081031 12:24:39 ivanovic * r30461 /branches/1.4/doc/manual/ (17 files): regenerate doc files (no string changes in sources) 20081031 12:24:50 well esr can test it and if he thinks it looks oke run it with Jetryl and Kitty 20081031 12:24:51 Actually I just did test this on a Kitty's portrait of Cleodil, if you want to see both versions. But zookeeper is right, I guess, this is really a questio for Jrtryl. 20081031 12:25:08 can you post the image? 20081031 12:25:57 Yeah. Do you ahave a preferred picture-dump site? I don't use them much, so I don't have one at my fingertips. 20081031 12:26:13 me neither :( 20081031 12:26:48 Hold on, I'll find one. 20081031 12:26:50 especially portraits with any transparent bits are something that can't really be done without the original backgroundless image or rather fancy skills 20081031 12:27:14 (or without losing some of the details in the image, of course) 20081031 12:27:20 imagebin is good 20081031 12:27:35 for temporarily irc-posting stuff 20081031 12:27:45 ivanovic * r30462 /trunk/ (815 files in 18 dirs): 20081031 12:27:45 pot-update (lots of string changes!) 20081031 12:27:45 regenerated doc files 20081031 12:28:24 btw I started to polish the code for the new dialog and hope to start to test with the code soon :) 20081031 12:29:13 http://imagebin.org/29988 20081031 12:29:51 uh. the wings have like black background, not to mention that the wings are cut off. 20081031 12:29:53 uhm looks rather bad 20081031 12:30:14 the backgroundless portraits won't be having any cropping on the sides or top (unless it's a wose maybe ;) 20081031 12:30:25 And http://imagebin.org/29989 20081031 12:30:52 -!- mordante changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.4.6 planned for sunday | 49 bugs, 208 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclog.wesnoth.org and http://wesnoth.org/irclogs | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://rafb.net/paste, http://paste.debian.net, http://pastebin.ca for images use http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add 20081031 12:31:29 True, but ther cropping won't be an issue with most portraits. 20081031 12:31:51 for now I planned to use the old dialog for the old images and the new one for the new images 20081031 12:32:58 Think to notice is the blacklining effect. In general that's going to look better on a non-black background. 20081031 12:33:40 (This is one bit of art-school lore that even I know :-) ) 20081031 12:34:35 yeah, but only when the blacklining effect is properly antialiased instead of horribly jagged ;) 20081031 12:37:08 Ah, right. Means the selection border has to be converted to a path before stroking. Same issue I ran into with maps recently. 20081031 12:38:39 Turns out this is a known...not bug, exactly, more like unresolved design issue...in the GIMP. It's unclear what the right behavior is; attempts to antialias would fail badly in some cases. 20081031 12:38:56 i'm sure GIMP can feather and antialias selections directly? 20081031 12:39:11 so when you fill or erase such a selection, it does the smoothing right 20081031 12:40:17 Yeah, the problem is specifically associated with shrinking selections. I had the issue number on this jotted down somewhere... 20081031 12:42:21 ...but right now I think I need to sleep for a while. 20081031 12:44:30 night esr 20081031 12:46:43 esr * r30463 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_South_Guard/scenarios/05_Choice_In_The_Fog.cfg: Minor dialog polish. 20081031 12:47:04 G'might all. 20081031 12:54:08 -!- BenUrban [n=benurban@c-68-49-10-243.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 12:57:04 -!- YogiHH [i=YogiHH@c158177.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 13:27:00 -!- EdB [n=EdB@215.153.82-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 20081031 13:37:58 -!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 13:46:14 -!- ettin_ [n=jorda@7.207.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20081031 14:08:50 -!- ettin [n=jorda@111.206.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 14:45:21 -!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 15:22:56 -!- boucman [n=rosen@50.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 20081031 15:35:02 ivanovic * r30464 /branches/1.4/po/ (11 files in 10 dirs): updated Galician and German translation 20081031 15:37:32 ivanovic * r30465 /trunk/po/ (17 files in 14 dirs): updated Galician and German translation (forward merge of fixes in german translation of 1.4, fixes should be in sync now) 20081031 15:40:44 -!- VladimirSlavik [n=chatzill@136.219.broadband6.iol.cz] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 15:54:28 hi Ivanovic 20081031 15:55:30 hi YogiHH 20081031 15:55:45 YogiHH: got a question for you since you know the replay code part best: 20081031 15:55:45 Ivanovic, did anyone do anything about the campaign replay problems? 20081031 15:55:54 what is currently stored for replays in ram? 20081031 15:56:08 is the whole game so far stored in ram so that it is available when saving? 20081031 15:56:33 (so that ram usage increases a lot eg when in turn 300 compared to turn 10 just due to the turns that took place so far?) 20081031 15:56:43 -!- boucman [n=rosen@50.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 15:56:47 and no, noone dared to do anything about the replay issues 20081031 15:57:19 hmmpf, seems like i can't reproduce issues i had before :/ 20081031 15:57:25 YogiHH: if this is the case, then there might be a way to drastically reduce ram usage for games that take long: 20081031 15:57:46 store the "stuff that happened so far" in a file on the drive and just append the current turn when it is completed 20081031 15:58:16 read from this file when writing a save and sending replay data 20081031 15:58:37 you are right, the whole game is stored. And yes, that seems to be a good idea. 20081031 15:59:04 * Ivanovic is currently thinking about possible problems when playing on a device with 256MB ram 20081031 15:59:10 (this is what the pandora will have) 20081031 15:59:16 i see 20081031 15:59:28 regarding image cache we should not really hit this border too easily 20081031 15:59:48 but if we keep to much stuff in ram that is not needed at the moment, it can really become ugly after some time 20081031 16:00:19 and yesterday mordante mentioned the game using ~330MB in some mission in thot after reaching turn 300something 20081031 16:00:42 and this sounds really insane to me regarding "just saving the current state" 20081031 16:00:42 well, replays don't take much space, actually. I'd wonder if it would something beyond 1 MB for normal games 20081031 16:01:20 but when you've taken 300 turns already, it's likely that there's like a 100 units in the game, each making a move every turn...that adds up quickly 20081031 16:01:28 in a normal game you got like maybe a few dozen units 20081031 16:01:48 jupp 20081031 16:01:50 I had quite some units most idling 20081031 16:02:11 but yeah, it's not like even that amount of replay data should take up >100mb i guess :) 20081031 16:02:13 that is why i assume that the movement of the units can add up to several MB that are not needed at that moment 20081031 16:02:26 replays only record actions, not unit information 20081031 16:02:34 beside this: graphics for the units should be in only once 20081031 16:02:59 i don't know what exactly is stored per unit in the state 20081031 16:03:10 would not be suprised if it was the whole specific unit wml 20081031 16:03:18 it is, or almost all of it 20081031 16:03:18 (that is attacks, animations, ...) 20081031 16:03:20 I didn't look how much the usage increased only that at some point it was high 20081031 16:04:06 Ivanovic: yes, pretty much the whole unit WML is in. But that is the snapshot, not the replay 20081031 16:04:11 well, couldn't someone with the proper tools run a scenario like that and look which parts are the ones taking up most of the memory? 20081031 16:04:21 YogiHH: i know that it is in the snapshot 20081031 16:04:26 i'd imagine the terrain cache or whatever it is could take a lot 20081031 16:04:51 currently i am thinking about what can savely be stripped away or "just" be available as "scenario wide object" instead of stuff that is per unit 20081031 16:05:25 zookeeper: i don't think that we have a tool that *nicely* shows what the mem is used for 20081031 16:05:35 since we got many special structures that look all the same... 20081031 16:06:32 Ivanovic: that would be real easy if WML were not so mighty. But since you can change virtually *everything*, that information needs to be stored with the unit 20081031 16:06:55 argh, right 20081031 16:07:07 Ivanovic: However, what probably would be an excellent idea is to work with WML diffs instead of the whole thing 20081031 16:07:45 but why would the memory usage be orders of magnitude larger than the savefile itself (uncompressed)? 20081031 16:08:04 i mean, that turn-300 save is probably still at most a couple dozen mb large 20081031 16:08:19 why would it consume 300mb of ram? 20081031 16:08:40 no idea but how much does Wesnoth take at the end of a normal scenario? 20081031 16:08:55 not sure, i'd think something like ~100 20081031 16:09:01 zookeeper: i can only speak about unit information. If for example a unit type is gathered it is kept in memory, even if there isn't such a unit present anymore. 20081031 16:09:02 mordante: please give an example for a normal scenario? 20081031 16:09:10 is it mp (no recall list)? 20081031 16:09:29 is it early in a campaign with small maps and light wml (small recall list)? 20081031 16:09:54 is it close to the end of an epic campaign with really complex wml (huge recall list)? 20081031 16:10:04 well what do you think? 20081031 16:10:13 -!- VladimirSlavik_ [n=chatzill@136.219.broadband6.iol.cz] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 16:10:24 probably something in between those 20081031 16:11:05 for example httt first scenario at the end 20081031 16:11:10 zookeeper: 100MB is a reasonable estimate, actually a little high for 1.4 (don't know svn atm) 20081031 16:11:45 YogiHH: uhm, no 20081031 16:11:59 we had this amount already when testing at fosdem 20081031 16:12:14 and this was only some 12 turn game on a not too big map 20081031 16:12:46 way more than 100 MB? 20081031 16:13:24 no, but it was already at about 100MB 20081031 16:13:28 mp or campaign? 20081031 16:13:31 mp 20081031 16:13:39 have a look at the dev ml 20081031 16:13:46 that very much depends on how many add-ons you have installed 20081031 16:13:48 boucman posted the results of our tests there 20081031 16:13:52 none 20081031 16:14:20 it was a clean 1.3.highnumber build without prefs set to anything differing from defaults 20081031 16:14:31 sounds deactivated, using untranslated en_US version 20081031 16:14:35 so no gettext overhead either 20081031 16:14:41 there ram usage was at about 90MB 20081031 16:14:52 using gettext easily adds 5MB 20081031 16:15:03 and this was just watching a 12 turn replay 20081031 16:15:16 wesnoth is rather memory hungry :( 20081031 16:16:11 wish I had more time at my hands so I could fix more problems 20081031 16:16:30 well, i just loaded a mid-campaign save, moved around a bit and there's <5 units on the map and maybe <10 in my recall list, and i got 160mb memory usage 20081031 16:16:49 :( :( :( 20081031 16:17:31 uff 20081031 16:19:13 zookeeper: can you attach this save somewhere? 20081031 16:19:28 i would like to see how big the map is and stuff like this 20081031 16:19:43 no 20081031 16:19:51 it's of an older revision of DM 20081031 16:20:02 ah, okay 20081031 16:23:53 -!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has quit ["Leaving"] 20081031 16:24:00 if would be great if we could see, what uses the memory... a cache or something really needed 20081031 16:24:01 -!- VladimirSlavik [n=chatzill@136.219.broadband6.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081031 16:24:38 -!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 16:24:46 just tried a 1vs1 mp with everything on (sound, animations etc), a couple of Era's (Myth, Magic, EE, EE_Myth_RPG, FtF, Feudal) on 1.4 20081031 16:25:07 well, it should be somewhat straightforward grunt work to find out what uses memory a lot 20081031 16:25:12 starts with about 100MB, and is at 127 at turn 34 20081031 16:25:22 like, start a game on a small map, look at memory use, start a game on a huge map, look at memory use :) 20081031 16:27:12 trunk uses 135mb on elves besieged turn 1 20081031 16:27:20 i'll resize the map a bit and try again.. 20081031 16:27:44 just started up httt 20081031 16:27:55 at the beginning of turn2 i am already at 130MB ram used 20081031 16:28:11 that is: german translation, music and all stuff on, easy difficulty, new gold carryover 20081031 16:28:19 and i scrolled once over all of the map 20081031 16:30:16 no significant memory use increase after i made the map twice as big 20081031 16:30:42 -!- Tigge [n=tigge@bacchus.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 16:30:59 zookeeper: have you scrolled over all of the map? 20081031 16:31:03 no 20081031 16:31:28 that doesn't seem to increase it a lot either 20081031 16:31:33 zookeeper: i can give you some figures for a fresh 1.4 installation if you are interested. 20081031 16:32:01 YogiHH, well, not especially interested, i'm not going to fix it after all ;) 20081031 16:32:07 hehe 20081031 16:34:01 -!- Tigge [n=tigge@bacchus.olf.sgsnet.se] has quit [Client Quit] 20081031 16:34:42 i droided myself and it doesn't seem like a normal amount of units increases it a lot. seems kinda stable at around 150-160mb, even when the number of units on the map increased from 7 to 50-60 20081031 16:35:25 well I think it's nice to know whether it got worse or not 20081031 16:35:32 -!- VladimirSlavik__ [n=chatzill@136.219.broadband6.iol.cz] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 16:35:34 -!- VladimirSlavik__ is now known as VladimirSlavik 20081031 16:42:14 okay, after finishing the scenario, ram usage is at 176MB 20081031 16:42:59 woot?!? 20081031 16:43:15 this looks like a bug to me, in the next scenario, even at the start, the ram usage did not go down at all 20081031 16:43:42 no change when going to the main menu either 20081031 16:44:04 and when loading the save, it is even up by another 4mb 20081031 16:44:44 Ivanovic: the cache is always loaded completely, that includes all scenarios 20081031 16:45:24 uhm, when closing wesnoth and using the start of scenario save of blackwater port i am at just 107MB instead of 190MB... 20081031 16:45:31 Ivanovic: it's not a bug, it's by design (although the design could be better, maybe ;-) 20081031 16:45:42 that is: looks like nothing is dropped after a scenario is completed 20081031 16:45:51 correct 20081031 16:46:03 and this *should* be changed 20081031 16:46:17 i am not going to contradict ;-) 20081031 16:46:30 since: is there *any* good reason to keep the data beside being too lazy to clean up behind oneselve? 20081031 16:46:37 nope 20081031 16:47:07 it wasn't so important when the data was at about 20MB for the whole thing, but WML has grown *a lot* meanwhile 20081031 16:47:20 can we see how much data there is in the image cache? 20081031 16:47:25 boucman ^ 20081031 16:47:46 afk, I don't remember on the top of my head 20081031 16:47:52 not clearing that cache makes sense to me 20081031 16:47:57 but the number of elt in cache might be workable 20081031 16:47:58 ok 20081031 16:48:16 mordante: partially agree 20081031 16:48:29 it might make sense on chage of day luminosity where all elts are invalidated 20081031 16:49:06 mordante, Ivanovic: Sorry, i should have made that clear: I was talking about the WML cache for units and scenarios, not the image cache 20081031 16:49:17 -!- Tigge [n=tigge@bacchus.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 16:49:20 YogiHH yes I understood that 20081031 16:49:23 YogiHH: i am mainly thinking about this one, too 20081031 16:49:32 since this is not cleaned up as it looks 20081031 16:49:53 but I would like to know the influence of the image cache as well... 20081031 16:49:54 i can assure you, it is not. It get's cleaned when you return to the main menu 20081031 16:50:20 YogiHH: uhm, then what remains in the cache? 20081031 16:50:29 -!- VladimirSlavik_ [n=chatzill@136.219.broadband6.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081031 16:51:16 -!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has quit ["Leaving"] 20081031 16:51:58 Ivanovic: Nothing. Thinking about it, i am not sure if it gets cleared upon returning to the main menu or when you enter the next (different) campaign/mp. 20081031 16:52:12 -!- Sirp [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 16:52:48 okay, i *do* know that the memory used by the game did not decrease in a significant way when getting back to the main menu after having played the first scenario of httt and seeing the beginning of the 2n 20081031 16:52:50 d 20081031 16:53:10 (insignificant as in "dropped by less than 100kb) 20081031 16:53:16 hi Sirp 20081031 16:53:55 Ivanovic: you left the campaign, got to the main menu and got back into it again? 20081031 16:54:01 yes 20081031 16:54:08 this increased ram used by about 4MB 20081031 16:54:14 each time doing so 20081031 16:55:13 ok, then it is like this: As soon as you enter a different campaign, the whole cache gets cleared (and reloaded for the new content). Up to there, everything is kept in memory. 20081031 16:56:10 jupp, when starting it goes up by ~4MB 20081031 16:56:38 *but* the image cache usage (for terrain) seems to not go up, since i can scroll all around without increased ram usage 20081031 16:57:00 YogiHH: so you say that my current ~125MB should drop a lot when starting two brothers? 20081031 16:57:06 that actually might be a bug (4MB increase), not sure where it is coming from 20081031 16:57:41 Ivanovic: yes, minus the new cache content 20081031 16:57:53 bad news for you... 20081031 16:57:59 ram usage is now at 146mb 20081031 16:58:28 :( 20081031 16:58:59 when just starting two brothers and scrolling over all of the map it is at 130MB 20081031 16:59:14 since TB is expected to be significantly smaller than HttT, that is indeed not like it is supposed to be :( 20081031 16:59:55 too small for patch or bug: LoW/utils/ai_controller.cfg does not have textdomain 20081031 17:00:41 hmm, each time starting two brothers scen1 soc save it adds another ~2.5MB to ram usage 20081031 17:00:56 -!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-166-125.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 17:01:04 that is: start the campaign, go through the scenario text stuff until you can play 20081031 17:01:10 scroll over all of the map 20081031 17:01:14 exit to main menu 20081031 17:01:24 load the created autosave 20081031 17:01:44 watch memusage (compared to when about to finish before) increase by 2.5MB 20081031 17:01:57 though between game and main menu ram usage goes down a little 20081031 17:02:21 but when back in the mission again, it is back to 2.5MB more than when finishing before 20081031 17:04:32 so it looks like we got some place where either things are not freed correctly, or where the existing cache is not used as it probably should be 20081031 17:04:37 sounds like a leak, can you try with valgrind? 20081031 17:04:53 never used it, can you give me a hand with it? 20081031 17:05:03 which CXXFLAGS should be used when compiling? 20081031 17:05:23 currently i am useing these: -march=core2 -O2 -msse4.1 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer 20081031 17:05:37 (and not a debug build) 20081031 17:05:45 no need to change the flags, but a debug build might be nice 20081031 17:06:46 valgrind --tool=memcheck -v --leak-check=full wesnoth parameters_for_wesnoth should do the trick 20081031 17:06:51 give me a min to rebuild wesnoth and 2min to build valgrind 20081031 17:07:10 you might use the --log as well to store the data 20081031 17:07:30 * mordante is curious how slow it will run at Ivanovic's comp 20081031 17:08:05 it will run well... 20081031 17:08:06 ;) 20081031 17:08:16 not too sure ;) 20081031 17:08:51 and if your wesnoth cache is out of date first run without valgrind to rebuild the cache 20081031 17:11:31 -!- YogiHH [i=YogiHH@c158177.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 20081031 17:12:33 Ivanovic that German translation update is that done by the new one on the forum (claudya) ? 20081031 17:12:46 no, this is done by some other dude 20081031 17:12:53 nicholas or something like this 20081031 17:12:58 should ask chrber 20081031 17:13:13 and you are right, with valgrind it is a whole lot slower than normally 20081031 17:13:27 ok since s/he the mentioned a lot of comma problems and the last update fixes a lot of them 20081031 17:13:52 just imagine how slow valgrind is on my system ;) 20081031 17:15:00 ivanovic * r30466 /branches/1.4/po/wesnoth-sof/de.po: updated German translation 20081031 17:15:19 ivanovic * r30467 /trunk/po/wesnoth-sof/de.po: updated German translation 20081031 17:15:49 i don't want to... 20081031 17:15:50 ;) 20081031 17:16:33 not surprised about that ;) 20081031 17:18:06 -!- boucman [n=rosen@50.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081031 17:23:31 mordante: the log: http://rafb.net/p/ILqdDu78.html 20081031 17:24:09 that is: after starting TB and creating an autosave by this, then scrolling over all of the map, stopping (to main menu) and loading the autosave, stopping to main menu, ... 20081031 17:30:12 and if you do it twice and maybe also use the --show-reachable=yes flag 20081031 17:30:34 twice loading the savegame* 20081031 17:30:51 mordante: i have done it X times (something like 4 or 5 times loading the autosave) 20081031 17:31:03 or do you want me to exactly do it two times? 20081031 17:31:56 no thought you did it once 20081031 17:32:21 can you do it something like 10 times so I can see whether the numbers change 20081031 17:32:22 no, i have done it *many* times 20081031 17:32:30 okay, 10 times... 20081031 17:33:45 -!- boucman [n=rosen@50.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 17:34:22 -!- boucman [n=rosen@50.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20081031 17:35:40 esr: uhm, looks like there are some problems with displaying the pre scenario maps 20081031 17:36:03 that is: i do see some of the scenario text printed in white on the map without the border stuff in fron 20081031 17:36:05 t 20081031 17:36:11 in a situation where the map should so far not be shown 20081031 17:39:48 -!- boucman [n=rosen@50.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 17:40:18 -!- boucman [n=rosen@50.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081031 17:45:02 -!- boucman [n=rosen@50.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 17:50:19 mordante: http://rafb.net/p/MMAUrj44.html 20081031 17:50:35 as requested with --show-reachable=yes and loading ~10 times 20081031 17:50:41 (might have been 11, not 100% sure) 20081031 17:52:25 not too important, but unfortunately the stats look quite similar :( 20081031 17:54:20 if we had a real leak some number should have been higher 20081031 17:54:44 so I guess we have a leak which gets cleanuped at destruction of the game :( 20081031 17:54:52 looks like 20081031 17:59:01 -!- Baufo [n=thomas@62-47-139-43.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 17:59:12 HAH! 20081031 17:59:17 i think i found it: 20081031 17:59:20 musics and sounds 20081031 17:59:39 when turning those off, ram usage does almost not increase when loading 20081031 18:00:10 * mordante gives Ivanovic a cookie 20081031 18:00:16 Ivanovic: unneeded strings from data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/utils/ai_controller.cfg remains in wesnoth.pot even after pot-update 20081031 18:00:41 stikonas: ??? 20081031 18:00:55 Ivanovic, LoW/utils/ai_controller.cfg does not have textdomain 20081031 18:01:30 stikonas remove the translation markers ;) 20081031 18:02:14 Ah, so it's not meant as translateable at all? 20081031 18:02:14 mordante: I don't have write access, I can't remove them 20081031 18:02:34 stikonas should nothing be translatable? 20081031 18:02:34 stikonas: without textdomain they probably end in the main one (no idea why, thought it has to be explicitly given...) 20081031 18:02:54 the question is: should this stuff be translateable but only in low, or should it not be translateable? 20081031 18:03:16 the ai controller should not be translatable 20081031 18:03:40 we'll make it translatable when it's actually finished. most of the current strings will probably be changed 20081031 18:03:51 Ivanovic: IIRC it was decided not be translatable, at least for now 20081031 18:05:00 I'll remove them, will commit later when I push other git changes as well 20081031 18:06:42 btw what is RACV? 20081031 18:07:03 * mordante runs away screaming 20081031 18:07:57 VladimirSlavik https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-dev/2008-09/msg00011.html 20081031 18:08:06 and goes on in october 20081031 18:09:18 -!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.246.94] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081031 18:09:29 * Ivanovic looks at esr and thinks about "strings should be done by now"... 20081031 18:10:34 -!- VladimirSlavik__ [n=chatzill@136.219.broadband6.iol.cz] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 18:21:45 -!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@94.29.26.238] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 18:22:31 -!- VladimirSlavik__ [n=chatzill@136.219.broadband6.iol.cz] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20081031 18:23:43 -!- boucman [n=rosen@50.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081031 18:28:26 -!- boucman [n=rosen@50.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 18:34:39 -!- loonybot [n=loonybot@94.29.26.238] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 18:36:07 -!- VladimirSlavik [n=chatzill@136.219.broadband6.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081031 18:55:53 -!- loonybot [n=loonybot@94.29.26.238] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081031 18:56:00 -!- loonybot [n=loonybot@94.29.26.238] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 18:56:35 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 18:57:35 hi 20081031 18:57:46 hi Shadow_Master 20081031 18:57:47 Why, hello there. 20081031 18:57:53 hi Shadow_Master 20081031 19:00:40 Sirp did you already look with mica into porting the WML scheme stuff to wesnoth? 20081031 19:00:54 read something about it on the forum 20081031 19:03:08 mordante: I've floated the idea.......not sure if it will happen. 20081031 19:03:41 ok, well I still like the idea to have more validation in WML 20081031 19:11:52 so, what occurred to irclog.wesnoth.org? 20081031 19:13:00 Rhonda's machine broke down, the second link has the logs Soliton made 20081031 19:13:36 um... 20081031 19:13:50 -!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@moinmoin/developer/karol] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081031 19:14:25 Espreon, AI0867: the team colorizer can be used as a s flag colorizer 20081031 19:14:33 you just have to change the commandline switches 20081031 19:15:41 wesnoth-tc --key flag_green 20081031 19:16:32 it can also recolor ellipses (wesnoth-tc --key ellipse_red ) -... all the color ranges and palette definitions are taken from mainline, all of them 20081031 19:18:30 shadowmaster * r30468 /trunk/RELEASE_NOTES: * Update release notes 20081031 19:20:30 Hi Shadow_Master 20081031 19:22:46 hi 20081031 19:27:23 -!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@moinmoin/developer/karol] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 19:39:11 Ivanovic: I just had an interesting idea. I think it would not be very difficult to build a spell-checking feature into wmllint. 20081031 19:40:44 might be interesting especially if we can ship our own dictionary as well 20081031 19:41:23 -!- Sirp__ [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 19:41:29 since we use quite some names and other words most of the time not known to a normal dictionary 20081031 19:41:48 mordante: Yes, my thinking was wmllint could supply its own dictionary built in the fly from things like name= declarations. 20081031 19:42:15 yes but for example does your dictionary know the word orc ? 20081031 19:42:30 unless we use all names of course ;) 20081031 19:42:52 No, but I see no reason not to automatically pass in all race names as well. 20081031 19:43:20 "Unknown scenario: '13_The_return_of_Trouble'" Delfador's Memoirs 20081031 19:43:24 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081031 19:43:34 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 19:43:38 yes but still doesn't solve the plural case ;) orcs is also no English according to firefox 20081031 19:43:43 Patterner: Looking, 20081031 19:45:06 mordante * r30469 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/ (helper.cpp helper.hpp): 20081031 19:45:06 Add a helper function to generate an unique id. 20081031 19:45:06 This function will be needed later when a widget without an id needs to 20081031 19:45:06 do some registration in new window functions. 20081031 19:45:25 Patterner: Just a typo fix, svn up. 20081031 19:45:27 mordante * r30470 /trunk/ (7 files in 2 dirs): 20081031 19:45:27 Add the easy close code to the window. 20081031 19:45:27 Easy close means a single click will close a window (if this is enabled 20081031 19:45:27 in the configs). Also convert the dialogs in the test scenario to use 20081031 19:45:28 this feature. 20081031 19:45:31 mordante * r30471 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/utils/ai_controller.cfg: 20081031 19:45:32 Remove translation markers. 20081031 19:45:34 The texts in this file aren't ready for translating yet and should thus 20081031 19:45:36 not be marked translatable. Problem found by stikonas. 20081031 19:45:42 mordante * r30472 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/ (4 files): Make sure all widgets have a parent. 20081031 19:45:47 mordante * r30473 /trunk/ (20 files in 3 dirs): 20081031 19:45:48 Add the easy close feature to the new widgets. 20081031 19:45:50 The easy close feature closes windows by a single mouse click, without 20081031 19:45:52 the need for a close button. Also converted the test dialog for the 20081031 19:45:54 remove addons to use this feature and commenting out the button in the 20081031 19:45:56 config (it will be needed later again). 20081031 19:46:42 -!- grrrX [n=_@p57BBF828.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 19:47:17 * Shadow_Master watches in despair the RAM being stolen by wesnoth 20081031 19:47:54 Am I the first to finish the Terror? :) 20081031 19:48:07 -!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-166-125.vinita.lt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081031 19:49:42 "Deprecated WML: trying to recruit a mixed fighter, but no unit of that type is available" 20081031 19:50:02 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Client Quit] 20081031 19:50:08 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 19:50:27 -!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 19:52:41 mordante * r30474 /trunk/RELEASE_NOTES: Remove obsolete info. 20081031 19:57:28 -!- grrrX [n=_@p57BBF828.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20081031 19:57:40 Ivanovic any idea when the next dev version will be released? 20081031 19:59:11 -!- Mica [n=Manic_Mi@d14-69-222-189.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 20:01:46 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit ["An error F00 has ocurred."] 20081031 20:01:52 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 20:07:23 -!- Sirp [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081031 20:11:41 -!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-166-125.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 20:11:41 esr: there are two Chantals in #12 (one from the beginning and one you can recall). But there is no Chantal at the end of #13 when Kalenz talks to her... 20081031 20:12:25 Patterner: your problems with IftU should be fixed in svn 20081031 20:13:04 they were probably because you installed IftU out of the user preferences dir - otherwise IftU works for me perfectly with 1.5.5 20081031 20:13:06 +svn 20081031 20:13:30 (what's lobby doing there? isn't it the MP log bot?) 20081031 20:15:10 (spying on you.) 20081031 20:15:19 Patterner: Checking... 20081031 20:15:49 zookeeper: around ? 20081031 20:17:58 -!- kthakore2 [n=kthakore@99.255.245.40] has quit ["Leaving"] 20081031 20:19:08 mordante: around ? 20081031 20:19:14 boucman yes 20081031 20:19:25 any idea about 12440 ? 20081031 20:19:33 -!- grrrX [n=_@p57BBF828.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 20:20:18 -!- grrrX [n=_@p57BBF828.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20081031 20:20:22 boucman, in about an hour or so 20081031 20:20:26 i'll ping you when i get back 20081031 20:20:43 zookeeper: if you have a minute, could you remind me the bug you mentionned yesterday ? 20081031 20:20:56 hmm.. 20081031 20:21:02 look in the logs :P? 20081031 20:21:33 Patterner: The fix for the glitch in 13 is easy, we just need a recall where we currently have an unstore in the victory event. I'm looking at 12. 20081031 20:22:17 boucman I guess it's due to the bar is rendered underneath the movement range 20081031 20:22:42 mordante, you were working on some modular-UI thing, right? Is it done? 20081031 20:22:43 yes, obviously, but do you know how to fix that ? 20081031 20:22:47 seems there are still some glitches left with out of hex items, alink did already fix a few 20081031 20:22:59 mordante: and can you reproduce? it seems to work for me 20081031 20:23:24 Rrenys I'm working on it, far from finished thusfar 20081031 20:24:40 mordante, once its finished, will it be possible to have (on the ingame interface) the parts of the UI be tiled, not stretched? 20081031 20:25:05 boucman also can't reproduce it 20081031 20:25:21 ok, I've put it as work for me, will close when 1.5.6 is out 20081031 20:25:25 "Error while playing the game: game_error: Unknow unit type '' while generating traits" during #13 20081031 20:25:30 (like, rightside.png in data/core/images/themes) 20081031 20:26:24 Patterner: Crap. I have no idea how to debug that. Have you ever seen it before? 20081031 20:26:27 Rrenys at the moment I'm also using stretching instead of tiling 20081031 20:26:52 any specific reason for wanting tiling? 20081031 20:27:28 If tiling was enabled, it would be a lot easier to make another skin for it - stretching makes _every_ non-solid texture ugly. 20081031 20:27:47 yes I already noticed that ;) 20081031 20:28:18 esr: I think so (but not in DM) 20081031 20:28:34 the only problem with tiling is that not every image can be cut at every location :( 20081031 20:29:10 the main reason for using stretching is, that the engine already supports it, which makes development faster 20081031 20:29:17 Anybody seen fendrin recently? (Patterner: he's the WML tech that's been worjing on DM.) 20081031 20:29:47 shikadibot: seen fendrin 20081031 20:29:48 Shadow_Master: fendrin quit IRC with message: "Remote closed the connection" 5 days 1h 39m 42s ago. 20081031 20:30:06 shikadibot seen broodkiller 20081031 20:30:20 shikadibot: seen broodkiller 20081031 20:30:20 mordante: Sorry, I don't know anything about broodkiller 20081031 20:30:26 the only problem with tiling is that not every image can be cut at every location :( ||| <-- I dont understand? If you mean the tiles being seamless, it would be up to the artist to make them seamless. 20081031 20:30:27 since shikadibot gets reset every now and then, it drops the list of people 20081031 20:31:16 yes, but didn't know shikadibot also has seen and wesbot was resetted yesterday 20081031 20:32:31 Rrenys yes, what would be really nice for example have a border which looks like an old piece of parchment 20081031 20:32:47 Patterner: Obviously I'll have to fix this before I can ship it. Sigh. 20081031 20:32:50 and it would be great if the engine could support it 20081031 20:32:53 * Shadow_Master sees no wesbot 20081031 20:33:10 it's hiding under the name of Rh0nda 20081031 20:33:12 ;) 20081031 20:33:46 k, don't spoil the surprise 20081031 20:34:16 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit ["Foo. Bar."] 20081031 20:37:29 mordante: did we document what layer number is what somewhere ? 20081031 20:37:40 display.hpp 20081031 20:38:00 didn't document the number but the enum name 20081031 20:38:52 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 20:41:09 -!- Shadow_Master is now known as [shadowmaster] 20081031 20:41:30 -!- [shadowmaster] is now known as Shadow_Master 20081031 20:43:25 mordante: remember why we have a specific layer for the fake unit ? 20081031 20:44:00 boucman not really you thought it was handy at the time... maybe if it moves over an existing unit? 20081031 20:44:10 * Shadow_Master supposes it is for helping the projectile fake units 20081031 20:44:18 s/was handy/might be handy/ 20081031 20:44:28 (used by TRoW and DiD in mainline, for instance, the fake Fireball and Iceball projectiles) 20081031 20:44:46 Shadow_Master: explain... the missile frame, or a specific unit "missile unit" for special effects 20081031 20:44:53 missile unit 20081031 20:45:12 ok, never heard of that, but makes sense 20081031 20:45:48 having them as big halo animations instead of seperate units that move only in 6 directions would be prettier 20081031 20:46:01 mordante: I'll rearragne the layers a little to allow units to be drawn over fg terrains (flying units) 20081031 20:46:21 that sounds cool 20081031 20:46:48 yes no problem, that was whole plan behind the layers to easily rearrange things 20081031 20:48:57 http://pastebin.com/m60568ffa <= proposed layering (no numbers yet) 20081031 20:49:08 not sure how to handle ellipses though 20081031 20:49:27 should we keep them constant or force them as unit+1 and unit-1 20081031 20:52:04 we can spilt them, some things are just on temp layers since I haven't gotten around to split them further 20081031 20:52:49 the overhead of an extra layer doesn't seem to be too high so if you think it's easier to split them then feel free to do so 20081031 20:53:13 yeah, makes sense to have them on their own layer 20081031 20:53:39 yes especially if you want them between the unit and the missile 20081031 20:54:24 oh they already have their own layer UNIT_[F|B]G 20081031 20:54:53 feel free to give the layer a sane name ;) 20081031 20:57:10 -!- Sirp__ [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 20081031 20:57:19 ok, I know how I'll do it 20081031 20:57:23 thx for the hints 20081031 20:57:30 no problem 20081031 20:58:17 esr: when will be ready that paper on C++'s pros and cons ? 20081031 20:58:17 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081031 20:59:55 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 21:00:17 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Client Quit] 20081031 21:00:22 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@190.22.71.62] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 21:00:56 ivanovic * r30475 /trunk/ (158 files in 4 dirs): just another pot-update (getting rid of strings from low not needed in the mainfile...) 20081031 21:02:13 ivanovic * r30476 /trunk/po/ (12 files in 12 dirs): updated Czech translation 20081031 21:03:01 mordante: i don't know yet when it will be out 20081031 21:03:05 Ivanovic: You may have to do that again after my next commit. wmllint just found some strings in LoW's ai_controller.cfg that needed translation marks and did not have them. 20081031 21:03:16 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Client Quit] 20081031 21:03:37 esr: still, no strings from campaign specific stuff should go into the main file 20081031 21:03:45 that is: set a correct textdomain! 20081031 21:04:24 esr I just removed those 20081031 21:04:57 mordante: Let me update, then. 20081031 21:05:47 zookeeper, mordante: question about layers, how would you order the following layers: unit,flying_unit,ellipse_front,missile,terrain_fg 20081031 21:06:22 Ivanovic ok I'm now looking at the new dialog with kitty's portraits but it might be a bit shaky, hope to have it a bit stable before the next release so people can start to test it 20081031 21:06:22 i think that unit,terrain_fg,flying_unit,missile makes sense, but not sure where to put the ellipse_front in that 20081031 21:06:37 maybe in front of the terrain_fg, but I'm not sure how it would look 20081031 21:06:38 esr I said i _removed_ them 20081031 21:06:45 s/i/I/ 20081031 21:06:47 mordante: okay 20081031 21:07:23 if quite stable I will make that the only feature with the --new-widgets switch and encourage people to test it 20081031 21:07:28 mordante: I don't understand. Do you mean you modified ai_controller.cfg, or something else? 20081031 21:08:13 esr read the log starting at 18:00 20081031 21:09:09 boucman I think testing it and making some screenshots would be the best also not sure what the best order would be 20081031 21:09:23 ok, trying that order now 20081031 21:10:00 LAYER_UNIT_FAKE is unused 20081031 21:11:48 mordante: Looked at logs, haven't seen anything that looks relecaant, wmllint is barfung all overr the place about missing translation marks on label= and description strings. Is it doing wrong? 20081031 21:12:07 s/relecaant/relevant/ 20081031 21:12:32 no those markers have been removed since the text is still under heavy reconstruction 20081031 21:13:26 -!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-166-125.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20081031 21:13:27 I should just tell wmllint to ignore all that, then? 20081031 21:14:16 you can do that if it makes your life easier, we can remove them once the texts are final and have markers again 20081031 21:15:25 anyway: please add the file to the textdomain wesnoth-low since it looks very campaignspecific to me 20081031 21:15:39 if it is not campaign specific, move it out of the campaigns/ dir into the core tree 20081031 21:19:08 I think it is not, actually. 20081031 21:19:34 mordante: What is your opinion? 20081031 21:19:38 -!- governor [n=governor@bas7-kitchener06-1177729253.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 21:19:51 esr ? 20081031 21:20:21 ai_controller.cfg: campaign_specific, or not? 20081031 21:21:20 no idea, haven't looked at the file just did :%s/_ // and committed ;) 20081031 21:22:19 esr * r30477 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/utils/ai_controller.cfg: Pacify wmllint. This may wabt to be moved to core. 20081031 21:22:44 Ivanovic: I'll ask fendrin when he rematerializes. At the moment nothing in it is marked for translation. 20081031 21:23:39 boucman, well i'm still of the opinion that all terrain graphics need to go under all units and animations...unless we find a magic solution for the glitches it causes with sliding. 20081031 21:23:40 ha my first attempts to show the new dialogs in game seem to work :) :) :) 20081031 21:24:09 zookeeper: I'll bake something and you tell me what you think 20081031 21:24:55 * esr is adding spellchecking to wmllint 20081031 21:25:15 esr: will you support translations 0:-) 20081031 21:28:18 mordante: could you update http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/CompilingWesnoth#Prerequisites ? 20081031 21:28:34 since you are probably the only one who added a new dep 20081031 21:30:27 Ivanovic if I don't forget it I'll do it, didn't even know about that page :/ 20081031 21:30:44 INSTALL is up-to-date regarding my changes 20081031 21:34:16 loonycyborg: how do you tell scons to only compile one file ? 20081031 21:34:56 Pass it on the command line :) 20081031 21:35:39 I think I see what's wrong 20081031 21:35:51 you have to prefix it with src/ 20081031 21:35:58 even when in the src directory 20081031 21:36:23 nope, doesn't work 20081031 21:36:34 nice scons -j2 src/unit_frame.o 20081031 21:37:18 nice scons -j2 build/release/unit_frame.o 20081031 21:37:25 or build/debug 20081031 21:37:54 of course 20081031 21:37:59 I should have guessed :P 20081031 21:38:19 loonycyborg: btw, it would be nice if -j2 could be made a persistant scons option 20081031 21:40:28 It already is if you use distcc.. 20081031 21:40:39 yeah, but I don't 20081031 21:40:43 !:P 20081031 21:40:43 * shikadibot is offended 20081031 21:41:35 esr * r30478 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_South_Guard/scenarios/06b_The_Long_March.cfg: Pacify wmllint. 20081031 21:46:18 boucman: Does -j persist for make? :) 20081031 21:47:17 nope, but I thought the point of scons was to be better than make 20081031 21:47:35 and any make option can be made persistant at ./configure time IIRC 20081031 21:48:28 * loonycyborg is working on it 20081031 21:49:08 * boucman knew that "make can do it" would be the killing argument 20081031 21:51:11 -!- grrrX [n=_@p57BBF828.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 22:00:48 loonycyborg * r30479 /trunk/SConstruct: 20081031 22:00:48 Added jobs option to scons which sets the number of parallel 20081031 22:00:48 compilations. It functions like -j argument with the exception that it 20081031 22:00:48 persists, 20081031 22:02:25 You can now run scons jobs=2 20081031 22:02:49 loonycyborg: wonderful, thx a million 20081031 22:03:40 Making -j itself persist is bad idea because 1) it's rather hard to do 2) it can confuse people with make experience who expect it *not* to persist. 20081031 22:04:12 yeah, doing it the scons way is fine 20081031 22:04:30 the functionality was important to me, the actual way of doing it doesn't really matter 20081031 22:08:18 in 1.5.x observes can move players' units 20081031 22:08:30 yeah :( 20081031 22:08:30 oddly enough, this seems to be only visual 20081031 22:08:40 ah no, now the oos comes 20081031 22:08:48 grrrX: actually, I believe oponents can do it too 20081031 22:09:11 yes 20081031 22:09:33 also, a nice graphical lobby glitch I have no idea how to reproduce 20081031 22:14:23 -!- Baufo [n=thomas@62-47-139-43.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 20081031 22:16:44 graphical glitch can be seen on the right edge: http://pichostonline.com/u/081031/b25afd0d04.png 20081031 22:16:53 -!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-166-125.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 22:20:34 oh and yeah, thanks loony 20081031 22:23:23 -!- Espreon [n=espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 22:24:00 -!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 22:25:55 Hola todo el mundo. 20081031 22:29:29 esr: Did I miss any exciting commits? 20081031 22:30:18 Nah. I'm implementing spellchecking in wmllint. 20081031 22:31:15 esr-spellchecking, or real spellchecking? =p 20081031 22:31:52 Interesante... 20081031 22:32:16 grrrX: Um...what would the difference be? Oh, wait. I spell very well, it's my typing that sucks...you didn't know this? 20081031 22:32:46 haha, good rebound 20081031 22:33:09 is there an easy c++ way to change an into into a string or do I have to use sprintf and friends ? 20081031 22:33:20 esr: I really wish JAP would come back... 20081031 22:34:35 grrrX: That wasn't just banter, it's actually true. ;-) 20081031 22:36:51 -!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-71-59-35-203.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 22:37:03 boucman: change an (what) into a string? 20081031 22:37:15 :P 20081031 22:37:17 an int 20081031 22:37:26 lexical_cast 20081031 22:37:37 boost::lexical_cast, yes 20081031 22:37:43 or stringstream 20081031 22:38:06 isn't lexical_cast string=>int ? 20081031 22:38:21 *Espreon is baffled by all the C++ talk...* 20081031 22:38:40 I don't use that much boost 20081031 22:39:31 loonybot: {stringstream str; str << 42; cout << str.str(); } 20081031 22:39:31 loonybot << lexical_cast(4) 20081031 22:39:37 42 20081031 22:39:37 error: 'lexical_cast' was not declared in this scope 20081031 22:39:55 * Sapient wins 20081031 22:40:32 then there's always itoa, but that's more C-style 20081031 22:41:02 don't use sprintf 20081031 22:41:38 http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/CodingStandards#Do_not_use_sprintf 20081031 22:41:39 I've heard that sprintf is as dangerous as a grenade :) 20081031 22:43:10 besides, it's overkill. you don't need to process all the % arguments if you know you just want to convert an int 20081031 22:44:07 esr: Should I mention that DiD now uses the undead flag in the changelog? 20081031 22:44:41 Espreon: do it, it'll give ideas to other UMC devs 20081031 22:44:58 loonybot << boost::lexical_cast(4) 20081031 22:44:59 All right then. 20081031 22:45:01 4 20081031 22:45:13 loonybot << boost::lexical_cast("4") 20081031 22:45:16 4 20081031 22:45:47 lexical cast works both ways :) 20081031 22:48:02 thx, it works 20081031 22:48:17 Who and whom now? 20081031 22:48:35 I used liexical_cast (hte wesnoth one) 20081031 22:49:19 boucman, not sure but perhaps the gfx glitch in 155 lobby comes from a non-updated border that is sometimes overdrawn by lenghty game titles + nicks in players list? 20081031 22:49:40 grrrX: I never touched at the lobby code 20081031 22:55:50 the username list does not account for the changed width caused by bold or other formatting. 20081031 22:57:01 espreon * r30480 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): 20081031 22:57:01 * Made all relevant sides use the undead flag in UtBS. 20081031 22:57:01 Updated changelog. 20081031 22:58:50 boucman * r30481 /trunk/src/ (5 files): rework ordering of layers and animation engine to use them. this also solves missiles not being on top. any ordering bugs should be assigned to me 20081031 23:01:41 -!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has quit ["Leaving"] 20081031 23:03:52 I posted my Halloween pic in OffTopic 20081031 23:04:00 Really? 20081031 23:04:04 yup 20081031 23:06:37 you could just drop a link you know? 20081031 23:06:47 Scary stuff... 20081031 23:06:58 http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/download/file.php?id=25316&mode=view 20081031 23:07:05 grrrX: so lazy, lol 20081031 23:07:22 esr: Did you see fendrin/fabi lately? 20081031 23:08:24 cya later, have fun. 20081031 23:08:24 -!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-71-59-35-203.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20081031 23:09:05 Espreon: He hasn't been here for 5 days. 20081031 23:15:00 Damn... 20081031 23:17:52 boucman the wesnoth lexical_cast is borrowed from boost and lexical_cast_default is an extension made by Sirp 20081031 23:18:15 -!- Espreon [n=espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081031 23:24:01 -!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081031 23:27:02 -!- boucman [n=rosen@50.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081031 23:32:22 -!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@94.29.26.238] has quit ["Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"] 20081031 23:32:56 -!- loonybot [n=loonybot@94.29.26.238] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081031 23:46:54 -!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit ["Power failu"] --- Log closed Sat Nov 01 00:00:08 2008