--- Log opened Sun Nov 02 00:00:11 2008 20081102 00:04:33 -!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 00:06:15 -!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 00:07:10 Did I miss anything exciting? 20081102 00:10:48 Espreon: I don't know. But http://wesnoth.org/irclogs do know. 20081102 00:13:33 I wish JAP would come back... 20081102 00:13:33 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 00:13:41 Hi Shadow_Master. 20081102 00:16:07 -!- Shadow_Master_ [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 00:16:15 -!- Shadow_Master_ [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081102 00:18:05 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Client Quit] 20081102 00:18:06 -!- Shadow_Master_ [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 00:22:20 5/4 20081102 00:22:24 ops 20081102 00:22:35 ops/nick Shadow_Master 20081102 00:22:39 aargh 20081102 00:22:42 -!- Shadow_Master_ is now known as Shadow_Master 20081102 00:23:22 Shadow_Master: edited the post 20081102 00:23:26 it's multiplayer_side 20081102 00:23:47 you scared me with that post, I almost thought it was [message][option] 20081102 00:24:30 screw the 'almost' 20081102 00:28:28 i am off to bed, n8 20081102 00:28:32 gn Ivanovic 20081102 00:28:57 -!- Sirp [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 00:29:33 I have trouble parsing the join messages spit by irssi 20081102 00:32:24 -!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@94.29.26.179] has quit ["Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"] 20081102 00:34:50 okay, now I have python and unit tests living happily together, thanks a lot loonycyborg 20081102 00:38:20 -!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe11fa00-51.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 20081102 00:43:46 heh, besides bug #11495, sound sources are pretty much broken for a few development releases 20081102 00:44:02 :-( 20081102 00:44:05 I suppose that I should do something on that matter... 20081102 00:44:30 second bug, submitted by me, which I end up assigning to myself 20081102 00:47:40 * Shadow_Master off 20081102 00:47:42 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit ["leaving"] 20081102 00:58:55 esr * r30516 /trunk/data/ (113 files in 38 dirs): 20081102 00:58:55 Spell checking for WML text strings. This is the infrastructure; there 20081102 00:58:55 are still about 1500 exceptions to be chased down. 20081102 01:07:08 -!- boucman [n=rosen@50.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081102 01:10:09 -!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 01:10:45 -!- Elvish_Pillage2 [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081102 01:11:04 -!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20081102 01:20:46 -!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 01:24:25 -!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-43-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 01:25:02 -!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit [Client Quit] 20081102 01:26:36 esr: what do you think happened to Crelanu's book after Delfador died? 20081102 01:36:47 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 01:39:23 shadowmaster * r30517 /trunk/src/soundsource.hpp: 20081102 01:39:23 * Changed the default fade-out and full-volume ranges of soundsources by 20081102 01:39:23 * saner values (the former defaults are mostly useless). 20081102 01:41:09 -!- Espreon_ [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 01:41:10 -!- Shadow_Master_ [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 01:41:12 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20081102 01:41:17 Espreon: did you read my message about TE (Thunderstone)? 20081102 01:41:25 -!- Shadow_Master_ is now known as Shadow_Master 20081102 01:43:43 -!- lobby_ [i=wesnoth@wesnoth.wesnoth.org] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 01:43:43 -!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 1.4.6 planned for sunday | 53 bugs, 208 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclog.wesnoth.org and http://wesnoth.org/irclogs | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://rafb.net/paste, http://paste.debian.net, http://pastebin.ca for images use http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add 20081102 01:43:43 -!- Topic set by Rh0nda [] [Sat Nov 1 23:47:02 2008] 20081102 01:43:43 [Users #wesnoth-dev] 20081102 01:43:43 [ [Relic] ] [ erl ] [ IRSeekBot3] [ Patterner ] [ Sirp_ ] [ yann] 20081102 01:43:43 [ AI0867 ] [ Espreon ] [ isaac ] [ Rh0nda ] [ Smar ] 20081102 01:43:43 [ Blueblaze ] [ Espreon_] [ Ivanovic ] [ Rhonda_ ] [ Soliton] 20081102 01:43:43 [ CIA-33 ] [ esr ] [ lobby ] [ Shadow_Master] [ suokko ] 20081102 01:43:43 [ Dragonking ] [ ettin ] [ lobby_ ] [ shikadibot ] [ Tigge ] 20081102 01:43:43 [ Elvish_Pillager] [ freim ] [ noy ] [ Sirp ] [ uso ] 20081102 01:43:43 -!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 31 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 31 normal] 20081102 01:43:43 -!- lobby [i=wesnoth@wesnoth.wesnoth.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20081102 01:43:50 -!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Sun Nov 26 07:42:43 2006 20081102 01:43:52 -!- [freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup 20081102 01:44:29 -!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-dev was synced in 47 secs 20081102 01:45:26 I was one of the defenders of the idea of having supernatural/magic stuff in TE 20081102 01:48:16 esr note that, you were there at the time :) 20081102 01:48:50 Really? 20081102 01:49:00 I hope he did not want magic dead! 20081102 01:49:13 IIRC he supported me (or I supported him) 20081102 01:49:23 Good. 20081102 01:50:31 also, he created the name of the prohect (Thunderstone), but I made up the name of the planet long time before for IftU 20081102 01:53:03 zookeeper suggested many things for TE as jokes, probably someone misunderstood that 20081102 01:53:19 and I was against using the -noth suffix in the project. That was the only thing I was against. 20081102 01:58:00 -!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081102 01:58:49 -!- Espreon_ is now known as Espreon 20081102 02:00:34 -!- Shadow_Master_ [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 02:01:38 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit ["Reconnecting"] 20081102 02:01:44 -!- Shadow_Master_ is now known as Shadow_Master 20081102 02:09:03 class sourcespec's interface is not WML-aware. Too bad. I'll have to write a reader and a writer before fixing it 20081102 02:09:03 -!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Hi! I'm a quit message virus vaccine. If you see a quit message virus, don't replace your quit message with it!"] 20081102 02:10:12 of course there was no way to store the sound sources in the saved games :P this is a bit absurd as a feature without such capabilities 20081102 02:11:08 but why grzywacz would use such dumb default parameters for the full volume range and fade out range ? 1 hex full, 0 fade out is completely useless 20081102 02:11:56 wouldn't surprise me if the game_events.cpp WML entries for sound sources aren't even doucumented 20081102 02:13:29 um , documented but it doesn't even give a hint of what full_range's default value should've been instead of 1 20081102 02:13:39 * Shadow_Master ponders this 20081102 02:15:43 k... I'll rewrite its interface, it isn't even complaint to the private members' rule :p 20081102 02:18:18 -!- Shadow_Master_ [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 02:18:42 -!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-43-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [] 20081102 02:19:02 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit ["Reconnecting"] 20081102 02:21:15 :O 20081102 02:21:54 * Shadow_Master_ really fears for sourcespec objects' integrity once some constructor params go out of scope... 20081102 02:23:37 what is sourcespec? 20081102 02:24:15 a small class which holds parameters for sound sources in the game 20081102 02:24:48 the problem I need to solve, ultimately, is that sound sources are "forgotten" after reloading games, but it seems I'll have to deal with some important design issues before getting to it :/ 20081102 02:25:01 shikadibot: seen grzywacz 20081102 02:25:01 Shadow_Master_: grzywacz quit IRC with message: "Remote closed the connection" 3h 53s ago. 20081102 02:28:59 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 02:30:21 -!- Shadow_Master_ [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit ["Reconnecting"] 20081102 02:31:12 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Client Quit] 20081102 02:31:15 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 02:37:22 emailed grzywacz before I step on his territory for more intrusive changes :) 20081102 02:37:31 (former territory?) 20081102 02:41:19 shadowmaster * r30518 /trunk/changelog: * Update changelog 20081102 02:41:43 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit ["leaving"] 20081102 03:22:38 AI0867: That's a good question. It would be logical to guess that it had a role in the corruption of Mal_ravanal. 20081102 03:22:56 probably 20081102 03:23:09 the dark hordes has gwiti finding it 20081102 03:23:35 the "Tower of Kaleon" is where he thought it was, but all it contains is a journal that describes where it's hidden 20081102 03:23:50 that is, in a valley elves and orcs have fought over for generations 20081102 03:24:20 gwiti is planned to eventually die at Elynia's hands 20081102 03:24:49 and here's a rather unoriginal thing: she's cursed to live forever 20081102 03:25:13 I'm thinking of either him destroying the book at that point, or her taking it 20081102 03:26:19 kaleon is supposed to be a tower where the greatest magi studied 20081102 03:26:29 and it's next to a forest with elves in it 20081102 03:26:40 any ideas on where it should actually be? 20081102 03:31:35 AI0867: Offhand I'd say somewhere between the Gray Woods and the Brown Hills seems like most likely. 20081102 03:32:23 I'll see if I can't give trackplacer a testdrive 20081102 03:33:00 Let me know what you think of it. I put a lot of thought into the interface. 20081102 03:33:01 -!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-71-59-35-203.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 03:34:07 Sapient: I have a rose to toss at you. Since you dicumented it, WmlIterator is now *really* useful. It's what I use in my spellchecker stage. 20081102 03:34:26 esr: why change "Dwarven" to "Dwarvish" in r30516? That is stylistic choice and not a spelling correction 20081102 03:34:51 esr: thanks, I am glad it finally got dusted off and used 20081102 03:35:16 At the time I thought it would be a good idea to get rid of one form. I've changed my mind since. 20081102 03:36:30 burying such changes in a giant spell check commit is very naughty of you :p 20081102 03:36:52 Sorry, I wasn't thinking along those lines. 20081102 03:37:32 nonetheless, it looks like you did catch a ton of spelling errors, so congrats 20081102 03:37:34 I'm not attached to the change, go right ahead and back it out if you want. 20081102 03:37:42 hmm, slight issue with that: gwiti doesn't know where he is at the start... 20081102 03:38:54 Sapient: Note, there will be more. The spellchecker works now but there are around 1400 exceptions that need either to be eliminated or declared. 20081102 03:39:08 * Sapient gasp 20081102 03:40:02 the window the help button pops up doesn't get its own taskbar thing 20081102 03:40:10 Why des this surprise you? There were 8000 this morning; I pruned the drastically with some suffix and compounding analysis. 20081102 03:40:25 it's also thin and long without a scrollbar 20081102 03:40:25 spruned the/pruned them/ 20081102 03:40:34 I see why you put it in the --future now 20081102 03:40:52 and I can't make it wider to see the rest of the contents 20081102 03:41:41 Sapient: Oh, it will work, I just have some more slogging to do before w get to the point where the tree spellchecks clean. 20081102 03:43:08 Sapient: Right now I'm chasing what appears to be some kind of scope-handling bug in WmlIterator. Nothing major but I need to fix it before I can go forward. 20081102 03:43:21 b 20081102 03:43:38 you are using the latest version of WmlIterator, right? 20081102 03:43:46 I posted a patch to your changes earlier today 20081102 03:43:58 Oh, I'll sync up. 20081102 03:45:57 anyways, if you do find a bug, I'll gladly take a look at it; just file a report with enough data to reproduce it 20081102 03:47:15 I will say that I'm pretty confident with the scope handling though; you may not be using it the way intended 20081102 03:51:00 esr: how does one reorder track markers other than editing the journey by hand? 20081102 03:51:22 You can reproduce the bug by doing `make spellcheck' in data/tools. I'm off to sleep, which will make it aideal time for you to fix it. 20081102 03:51:44 AI0867: Drag them with the middle mouse button. 20081102 03:52:09 That is, click, hold, snd drag. 20081102 03:53:36 esr: I will try that. should I look for anything in particular? 20081102 03:54:09 that moves them, how do you get them to be in a different order? they sometimes end up in the wrong journey 20081102 03:54:34 Yes. The very top message, "wmliterator: attempt to close empty scope at #enddef line 42", and some following. 20081102 03:54:46 kk 20081102 03:55:16 AI0867: For that I'm afraid you need to either drag them into the right order or delete them and replace. 20081102 03:56:49 k 20081102 04:02:00 -!- Ivanovic_ [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db20308.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 04:08:19 Hola. 20081102 04:08:36 yo Espreon 20081102 04:08:36 hi Espreon 20081102 04:09:03 Anyway, I am having fun redesigning the first scenario of TSL. 20081102 04:09:23 Shadow Master says he cannot beat it... Funny.... I can beat it easily. 20081102 04:10:05 ai0867 * r30519 /branches/resources/cartography-tools/great-continent.xcf: * Moved the 'wesnoth blank variant' layer back to its proper location. 20081102 04:11:15 <[Relic]> sounds like a challenge :) 20081102 04:12:08 Well sometimes I run into problems... so that is why I am redesigning it... 20081102 04:12:15 <[Relic]> ah 20081102 04:12:15 if you want a challenge, try Velensk's new campaign ;) 20081102 04:12:50 I would rather work on mine... as it has a chance to get into mainline as it is set on the Great Continent. 20081102 04:12:59 esr: when a path crosses an old one, the dots tend to stick to the old path 20081102 04:13:00 =/ 20081102 04:13:45 Ummmmmmmmmm.... yo no hablo inglés. 20081102 04:14:25 Yo no comprendo inglés. 20081102 04:15:03 Just kidding... 20081102 04:15:20 It is esr's fault... so I shouldn't feel guilty. 20081102 04:18:34 Who here has nothing to do? 20081102 04:18:53 -!- Ivanovic [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db23952.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081102 04:20:00 -!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic 20081102 04:25:20 -!- Blueblazez [n=Blueblaz@120.houston-03rh16rt.tx.dial-access.att.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 04:25:23 -!- Blueblaze [n=Blueblaz@c-98-196-208-51.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20081102 04:26:59 -!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 04:35:35 pyenchant-1.4.2.win32-py2.4.exe does not work 20081102 04:37:59 esr: do you have a name for the hills east of the estmark? 20081102 04:38:21 until you made the track for THoT, that's where I had assumed Kal Kartha lay 20081102 04:48:47 "C:\Program Files\Python2.4\python.exe" data\tools\wmllint --dryrun --verbose --future data\tools 20081102 04:48:52 esr: 0 errors 20081102 04:56:21 -!- Psyche^ [n=Psyche@e177237156.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 04:59:22 -!- Ivanovic_ [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db211c4.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 05:08:38 -!- Patterner [n=Psyche@e177239008.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081102 05:08:39 -!- Psyche^ is now known as Patterner 20081102 05:15:20 who maintains HttT these days? 20081102 05:15:28 Yes... 20081102 05:15:30 the dark queen could use slightly updated attack names 20081102 05:15:32 who maintains it/ 20081102 05:15:42 "Die at the might of COLD!" yeah... not too convincing... 20081102 05:16:30 ooh, "might of COLD," I'm so scared :P 20081102 05:16:33 -!- Ivanovic [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db20308.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081102 05:17:23 -!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic 20081102 05:18:34 Sapient: Who maintains HttT? 20081102 05:18:49 Espreon: Mythological? 20081102 05:19:08 I think he needs to revamp Asheviere's magic's attack. 20081102 05:19:11 *attack name 20081102 05:19:26 just change it yourself 20081102 05:19:30 Fine. 20081102 05:19:32 you have svn commit rights? 20081102 05:19:44 How 'bout "ravaging blizzard?" 20081102 05:19:54 what is it now? 20081102 05:19:58 Cold... 20081102 05:20:32 the damage type is "cold" and the attack name is "Cold" ? 20081102 05:20:39 Yes. 20081102 05:20:50 yeah, yours is much better 20081102 05:21:14 although it doesn't make sense where is this blizzard coming from 20081102 05:21:34 Tell that to the Dark Adept line. 20081102 05:21:36 unless it has the magic special of course 20081102 05:21:42 I think it does. 20081102 05:22:59 Lemme get on my Linux lappy and I'll change it. 20081102 05:23:43 Yup, it has magical. 20081102 05:24:04 But "ravaging blizzard" sounds too strong for a 15-2 attack. 20081102 05:25:01 Sapient: Maybe just change it to "chill wave?" 20081102 05:25:21 nah 20081102 05:25:52 blizzard wave, maybe 20081102 05:25:58 No... 20081102 05:26:04 Sounds cheap. 20081102 05:26:07 lol 20081102 05:26:19 chill out. you might catch a Cold 20081102 05:26:21 How 'bout "raging blizzard?" 20081102 05:26:41 It sounds weaker than "ravaging blizzard." 20081102 05:26:44 you thing raging is not as strong as ravaging? 20081102 05:26:50 Yes. 20081102 05:27:11 you have a strange sense 20081102 05:27:22 But "catastrophic blizzard" is reserved for the Ice Maiden. 20081102 05:27:56 AI0867: Which sounds deadlier to you "raging blizzard" or "ravaging blizzard?" 20081102 05:29:35 rage denotes personification, thus it is not a neutral destructive force but a directed one 20081102 05:30:13 Well... 20081102 05:30:20 OK... seems reasonable. 20081102 05:31:08 <[Relic]> Icy Cold Hand of Death :) 20081102 05:31:21 [Relic]: NO! 20081102 05:31:35 That would be if it were a melee attack. 20081102 05:31:40 also, I do not see any reason why blizzard wave "Sounds cheap"... not that I'm particularly attached to it either 20081102 05:31:53 It does not seem to ring... 20081102 05:32:57 yeah 20081102 05:33:07 it's better than Cold or chill wave. Can't say that it's the best option but it's perfectly fine IMO 20081102 05:33:08 note that she does use the standard "dark missile" 20081102 05:33:25 so a blizzard may not be the best name for it 20081102 05:34:00 AI0867: are you suggesting she does arcane damage? 20081102 05:34:23 Sapient: Chill wave uses the dark missile 20081102 05:34:28 And it deals cold damage 20081102 05:34:40 whatever 20081102 05:34:49 -!- Blueblazez [n=Blueblaz@120.houston-03rh16rt.tx.dial-access.att.net] has quit [] 20081102 05:34:49 cya later, have fun. 20081102 05:34:49 -!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-71-59-35-203.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20081102 05:47:05 -!- Rh0nda changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.4.6 planned for sunday | 55 bugs, 208 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclog.wesnoth.org and http://wesnoth.org/irclogs | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://rafb.net/paste, http://paste.debian.net, http://pastebin.ca for images use http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add 20081102 05:47:28 YAY! 20081102 05:47:40 Wait, today is Sunday... 20081102 05:54:12 -!- [Relic] [n=[Relic]@adsl-76-229-220-201.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20081102 06:16:30 -!- ABCD [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 06:18:20 ABCD: Welcome. 20081102 06:44:20 sapient * r30520 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics/ (corner_overlay.cfg transitions_overlay.cfg): replace ##enddef with #!enddef so that it will be a comment instead of a directive. 20081102 06:46:59 esr: Here? 20081102 06:54:24 -!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]"] 20081102 06:56:39 sapient * r30521 /trunk/data/tools/wesnoth/wmliterator.py: WmlIterator: better handling for macro calls where the name of the macro includes a macro parameter. 20081102 07:08:55 -!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 07:10:13 esr: Here? 20081102 07:11:51 I guess my client tricked me. 20081102 07:29:59 -!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@207.236.52.27] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 07:37:30 -!- wildpenguin [n=chris@ppp121-45-105-52.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 07:49:52 -!- PK [n=pk@r74-192-44-206.vctrcmta01.vctatx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 07:49:57 -!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@207.236.52.27] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081102 07:50:12 -!- PK [n=pk@r74-192-44-206.vctrcmta01.vctatx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20081102 08:08:34 -!- Sirp [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 20081102 08:14:08 ABCD: Here? 20081102 08:20:05 -!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]"] 20081102 08:29:58 -!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 08:43:30 -!- maxy [n=maxy@80-219-1-12.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 08:47:15 Uh oh. My build is failing. 20081102 08:47:22 ln: creating symbolic link `locales/racv@wesnoth': Permission denied 20081102 08:47:23 scons: *** [locales/racv@wesnoth] Error 1 20081102 08:47:25 scons: building terminated because of errors. 20081102 09:05:31 -!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 09:12:07 -!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-166-125.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 09:14:47 -!- boucman [n=rosen@50.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 09:16:41 -!- mordante [n=chatzill@roadie.xs4all.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 09:16:58 morning 20081102 09:21:35 mordante: Is your scons build failing? Mine dies when trying to make symlinks in the locales directory. 20081102 09:23:25 esr no idea still using autotools 20081102 09:31:35 Ugh. 20081102 09:32:48 esr: try deleting locales directory 20081102 09:33:17 I sometimes have the same problem with cmake 20081102 09:34:05 stikonas: Trying that... 20081102 09:34:34 Nope, failed. 20081102 09:34:48 scons: *** [translations/gl/LC_MESSAGES/wesnoth-anl.mo] /home/esr/svn/wesnoth/translations/gl/LC_MESSAGES/wesnoth-anl.mo: Permission denied 20081102 09:34:50 scons: building terminated because of errors. 20081102 09:35:34 Damn. I wrote the scons build, so I understood it - until loonycyborg took over. 20081102 09:41:55 crimson_penguin ping? 20081102 09:49:43 hi mordante 20081102 09:50:28 hi crimson_penguin I was wondering does the latest trunk work on your OSX system? 20081102 09:50:44 mordante: I haven't tried building Wesnoth in ages... 20081102 09:51:00 :( 20081102 09:51:13 if you remind me "tomorrow" I can probably try 20081102 09:51:34 it's 10 to 4 here, and I haven't slept yet - and that's after setting the clock back an hour! 20081102 09:51:47 cool since it seems there are some problems and I would like to have 1.5.6 working on the mac again 20081102 09:52:21 really, I should probably try packaging Wesnoth again 20081102 09:52:38 I already expected that it was quite early at your place ;) 20081102 09:52:40 I don't really agree with the whole installing thing done now 20081102 09:52:52 well it's early, but that exactly the problem :P 20081102 09:53:00 early == LATE 20081102 09:53:33 anyway, remind me later 20081102 09:53:38 goodnight/morning! 20081102 09:53:41 that depends whether or not you slept at that time ;) 20081102 09:53:46 goodnight crimson_penguin 20081102 09:54:03 exactly 20081102 09:54:07 -!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has quit ["Leaving"] 20081102 09:55:03 -!- DDR [n=chatzill@209.90.176.88] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 10:06:20 -!- loonybot [n=loonybot@94.29.26.179] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 10:07:08 -!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@94.29.26.179] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 10:09:48 -!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@moinmoin/developer/karol] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 10:15:12 -!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe11fa00-51.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 10:17:04 jetryl * r30522 /branches/1.4/data/core/ (9 files in 2 dirs): New, TC frames for the naga fighter. 20081102 10:18:57 -!- zancdar [n=zancdar@79.85.238.151] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 10:19:16 -!- zancdar [n=zancdar@79.85.238.151] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081102 10:25:56 loonycyborg didn't you once mentioned a site where you can find files to make trunk working again on ancient windows version 20081102 10:25:58 versions* 20081102 10:26:57 Yes. IIRC that project is called KernelEx 20081102 10:27:41 ah that's it thanks :) 20081102 10:34:29 esr: You'll need to delete translations dir too. 20081102 10:36:52 And I have no idea what's so hard to understand here. You obviously run scons with root perms when it rebuilt translations and locales. 20081102 10:37:00 Trying that... 20081102 10:37:12 I never build translations and locales. 20081102 10:38:06 It will automatically build them if you have msgfmt and nls enabled(it is by default) 20081102 10:38:28 Some sort of explanatory message ("You may need to delete the translations and locales directories") would be a good idea here. 20081102 10:40:59 When did you run it as root? Do you always install it too? 20081102 10:41:47 If you develop C++ code it might be more convenient to run it from wc.. 20081102 10:42:06 If I ever ran it as root it was by accident. I don't instsll, because I do so much development; instead I run straight from the source directory. 20081102 10:44:21 Or perhaps you just run it with different uid.. 20081102 10:52:19 jetryl * r30523 /trunk/data/core/ (19 files in 2 dirs): New, TC frames for the naga fighter. 20081102 11:02:19 jetryl * r30524 /trunk/data/core/images/units/nagas/fighter.png: New, TC frames for the naga fighter. 20081102 11:02:52 jetryl * r30525 /branches/1.4/data/core/images/units/nagas/fighter.png: New, TC frames for the naga fighter. 20081102 11:14:17 moin 20081102 11:14:52 hi Ivanovic 20081102 11:15:58 -!- DDR [n=chatzill@209.90.176.88] has quit [Connection timed out] 20081102 11:15:58 uh oh. single unit id= is broken in trunk. looks like recruited units don't automatically get assigned a unique id. 20081102 11:16:16 -!- wildpenguin [n=chris@ppp121-45-105-52.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20081102 11:19:25 zookeeper * r30526 /trunk/data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/02_The_Human_Army.cfg: Fixed bug #12557. 20081102 11:27:27 zookeeper: That sounds like you should definitely file a bug. 20081102 11:27:50 yeah 20081102 11:47:03 -!- Rh0nda changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.4.6 planned for sunday | 54 bugs, 208 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclog.wesnoth.org and http://wesnoth.org/irclogs | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://rafb.net/paste, http://paste.debian.net, http://pastebin.ca for images use http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add 20081102 11:47:28 zookeeper * r30527 /trunk/data/campaigns/Sceptre_of_Fire/ (scenarios/9_Caverns_of_Flame.cfg utils/utils.cfg): Hopefully fixed bug #12556 and got rid of the hideous FOREACH_FORMAT and FORMAT macros. 20081102 11:53:04 AI0867 can you give me a short description of what wmltest does? (I need it for a short overview of the wml validation tools we have) 20081102 11:59:12 i'm not sure if the id change is intended...all units seem to have a unique underlying_id= 20081102 12:13:07 -!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 12:27:20 esr, uh...have you changed the last map of EI (the battle for weldyn, not the duel)? i recall it being very different than what it is now. 20081102 12:27:40 Nope, not a bit. 20081102 12:27:58 The changelog should reveal who altered it. 20081102 12:28:30 ah, ok. 20081102 12:28:33 R.I.P. Anlindë 20081102 12:28:46 all right 20081102 12:28:47 *sniff* 20081102 12:29:04 actually looks like it's always been like that (or at least since 1.5.0) 20081102 12:29:08 so i guess i remember wrong 20081102 12:36:31 mordante: what it's supposed to do is 20081102 12:37:56 -check whether tags and keys are meaningful in their location (grammar checker) 20081102 12:38:35 -test the existence of paths referred to (for images, music..) 20081102 12:43:26 thanks 20081102 12:44:26 Is is bad for your karma if you kill bunny rabbits? 20081102 12:44:34 it looks like TDH's "Skull of Agarash" was taken from the Lone Wolf series 20081102 12:44:49 so anyone have a better name for this agarash guy? 20081102 12:45:17 all that's known about him is that he used to be a powerful lich 20081102 12:46:26 Patterner: AFAIK there's no consquences for doing so. 20081102 12:46:59 And I doubt Mal Keshar cares :) 20081102 12:47:30 Ask Shadow_Master about that just in case though :) 20081102 12:47:41 if he's a lich, he should be names mal'something anyway 20081102 12:49:00 boucman: no 20081102 12:49:24 that's for ravanal's followers, and maybe for his teacher, mal keshar ;) 20081102 12:52:09 oh, ok 20081102 12:59:01 If I ever meet an Ancient Lich called Mal Aria I'll never play BfW again. 20081102 13:02:41 I hope there's no UMC dev who hates you :P 20081102 13:18:14 so, anyone have an idea for the guy's name, or should I read names.cfg and pretend to be the name generator again 20081102 13:24:49 meleroth 20081102 13:24:53 sounds evil enough 20081102 13:33:53 the name reminds me of something 20081102 13:33:57 oh right wesnOTH 20081102 13:34:13 AI0867, Dragonking, ettin, grzywacz, loonycyborg, maxy, Soliton, suokko, uso, zookeeper, esr: please answer the thread "what do you plan for 1.6?" on the wesnoth-dev ml 20081102 13:34:22 i would really like to get an overview of plans ASAP! 20081102 13:34:29 OK. 20081102 13:34:45 also put it in the wiki¡ 20081102 13:34:49 if there are no replys i assume everyone of you has no plans and that i can start the feature freeze tomorrow... 20081102 13:35:22 My only big plan is at this point to get Delfador's Memoirs in. 20081102 13:35:46 esr: and i really fear that it is too big to include it at this time 20081102 13:36:01 that is: if we can go for 1.6 anytime before easter next year 20081102 13:36:05 I had one other, but it's blocked on the savefiles mess being cleaned up. 20081102 13:36:21 esr is it already in wescamp? 20081102 13:36:31 addon server* 20081102 13:36:36 personally i would prefer to go for 1.6 really soon and have this campaign on the addon server marked as translateable 20081102 13:37:03 then we can point translators to it and say "this will go into the 1.7 tree directly when 1.6 is out, feel free to start working on it!" 20081102 13:37:27 I'm also not sure how much work the portraits are depends whether I can get away with only a 400x400 image 20081102 13:37:46 Ivanovic: I know you have a thing about translations, but this game is not about the translations. It's about the game, and shipping the best content. If we block that on translations being ready...well, in English that's called"letting the tail wag the dog", and it's not a good thing. 20081102 13:38:06 which would make things easier, but it depends on Kitty's wishes 20081102 13:38:22 esr: an imporant part of wesnoth *are* translations 20081102 13:38:32 esr: you really should have a look at the stats of our site 20081102 13:38:34 esr: yeah, but we're repeating one of the 1.4 mistakes right now 20081102 13:38:43 * mordante agrees with Ivanovic 20081102 13:38:44 more than 50% of the users are *NOT* native english speakers 20081102 13:38:51 Ivanovic, ok, i'll reply to that later today.. 20081102 13:38:53 so you want to not handle those? 20081102 13:39:10 I also think it's a bit late for another translation 20081102 13:39:10 if the target is too high, it's not just that translations are late, it also hits the translation temas spirit badly 20081102 13:39:20 when confronted to the overwhelming task 20081102 13:39:25 99% of them could be non-native speakers and that would *still* not be a reason to block on translations. 20081102 13:39:40 and what is the difference when it is on the addon server and we advertise it as "this one is great, about to go into mainline!" 20081102 13:39:58 yes, it is not directly included 20081102 13:40:05 but most people use the addon server anyway 20081102 13:40:18 this way we would also have some good non mp addon on it for a change... 20081102 13:40:26 I don't agree with that assumption. 20081102 13:40:45 I also would prefer content to be added as early as possible in the dev cycle so translation teams have enough time to work on it 20081102 13:40:46 That is, I don't think "most people use the addon server". 20081102 13:41:07 they do, look in the forum about addon server issues 20081102 13:41:09 esr: okay, then they at least have some new content in the 1.8 series... 20081102 13:41:15 esr: ok, all people that already did all mainline campaigns... 20081102 13:42:13 boucman: That's a smaller group than it used to be, now that we have 13 campaigns rather than 6. 20081102 13:43:34 Ivanovic: That's ass-backwards thinking -- it would be crazy to hold good content out of 1.6 because it might make 1.8 look better! 20081102 13:43:41 besides I think most teams already need several months of work, just to get ready for 1.6 with the current amount of strings 20081102 13:44:34 They're the tail. Not the dog. Their failure to be ready should not result in us short-changing our players. 20081102 13:44:56 no they really start to work after a string freeze 20081102 13:45:18 esr: their "failure" to start working is also (partly) your fault 20081102 13:45:27 that's not their failure we like to keep chaning strings before a freeze 20081102 13:45:31 that is: they can not really start to work on things when all stuff is in motion 20081102 13:45:39 esr: "our players" are mostly non english speakers 20081102 13:45:41 so they need to wait for at least some okay signal 20081102 13:46:25 Proposing that we should not improve storyline text because it might make trouble for translators would also be crazy. 20081102 13:46:39 I didn't propose that 20081102 13:46:57 but once everything is settled they need time to catch up 20081102 13:47:58 Agreed. But their time to catch up should not affect our decisions about what content to include, because our job is to ship the *best content* -- the *best game*! 20081102 13:48:54 the best game also means, in my not so humble opinion, the best translations 20081102 13:49:08 untranslated content counts as bad content for me 20081102 13:49:14 If we don't have that goal in mind at all times, what are we doing here? 20081102 13:49:27 that's a non-effort from us to treat all languages on the same footing 20081102 13:49:33 and that something we try to avoid 20081102 13:49:51 half translated content looks real bad 20081102 13:49:56 to be honest, I like to play the game in German, but once a campaign is half German, half English I stop playing 20081102 13:50:17 We are writing in English. It is not being an English-language chauvinist to point out that this makes the situation inherently unequal. 20081102 13:50:20 and I understand both languages but it just looks best 20081102 13:50:30 bad* 20081102 13:50:33 esr: yes, that true 20081102 13:50:48 but that's not a reason not to take translation constraints into account 20081102 13:51:18 I personally think that one less campaign and better translations for the others make a better game than one more campaign 20081102 13:51:29 * mordante agrees 20081102 13:51:30 half translated campaigns are unplayable 20081102 13:52:17 Into account is one thing -- I like Ivanovic's policy of a long string freeze, even though it inconveniences me more than most -- but if we go all the way to not issuing content because of it, priorities have gotten backwards. 20081102 13:52:46 esr: i see it more like in kernel development 20081102 13:52:54 we're not refusing new content, we're pushing it into 1.7 20081102 13:52:54 new and heavy changes should happen as early as possible 20081102 13:53:22 that is: as early after a stable release as possible, so that things can settle a little and polishing of the new stuff can happen 20081102 13:53:33 since there always is need for polishing after a rewrite of stuff 20081102 13:53:47 What you're doing is you're saying we should short-change 1.6 users for the sake of the translators. To me that seems crazy. Perverse. 20081102 13:53:49 there always happen several mistakes in a rewrite 20081102 13:54:22 and those need time to be found and fixed 20081102 13:54:45 esr we're not short-changing 1.6 users, we're avoiding frustrating most 1.6 users by providing half baked campaigns 20081102 13:54:46 esr: you seem to fail to see the point of view from translators 20081102 13:55:06 Right, I am speaking for the players. 20081102 13:55:08 esr: imagine you do not speak any english but just eg french, spanish, italian, german 20081102 13:55:09 moreover, there are so many new campaigns in 1.6 that I don't feel we're ripping 1.6 users 20081102 13:55:24 esr: nope, you're speaking for the english speaking players 20081102 13:55:31 esr: and since you do so (you know some english, just not much) you select your primary language as ingame language 20081102 13:55:35 now you play a campaign 20081102 13:55:41 the first mission is completely translated 20081102 13:55:53 in the 2nd mission two out of 30 strings are in english 20081102 13:56:00 and it starts to become an obscure mix 20081102 13:56:05 would you enjoy playing this campaign? 20081102 13:56:19 would you call it "better content since it is shipped"? 20081102 13:56:33 or would you just say "hey, you can't play this campaign, it is no fun at all!" 20081102 13:56:36 I am speaking for putting the interests of players, who want the strongeat possible game with the widest variety of content, *first*. I will always take that position. 20081102 13:56:50 esr: but there are many non english players out there 20081102 13:56:57 Ivanovic: did you get valer’s update for finnish translation? 20081102 13:57:00 and their interest is to get a good gaming experience 20081102 13:57:06 Smar: i got the file, not uploaded yet 20081102 13:57:10 okee. 20081102 13:57:22 just to make sure :) 20081102 13:57:47 Smar: should i apply it to trunk, too? 20081102 13:58:11 Right, there are. And how are they helped in any way if we refuse to ship untranslated campaigns? Not at all - they gain nothing. The English-literate lose, and the non-English-literare are not affected. 20081102 13:58:22 esr: and i will always take the position that not only native english players should be able to enjoy the content 20081102 13:58:44 esr what's the problem with putting it on the addon server and put it in early 1.7? 20081102 13:58:50 esr: we help them as in we do not scare translators away 20081102 13:58:59 Ivanovic: Fine, they should -- but tht position is never a reason not to ship untranslated content! 20081102 13:59:08 and yes, translators are scared away by changes this late and big 20081102 13:59:26 mordante: I'm objecting to putting the translators before the players. 20081102 13:59:44 esr: have you ever had a look at the amount of changes that have to be worked on between two stable series from the point of translators? 20081102 13:59:53 esr: translators are players, too 20081102 13:59:58 esr the players who don't understand english are also players :| 20081102 14:00:09 and there are also more non english players than those who are good in english 20081102 14:00:19 Ivanovic: I think so 20081102 14:00:26 Smar: will do so then 20081102 14:00:33 esr and we probably hear the least of them, since the forum has English as primairy language 20081102 14:00:36 since those shouldn’t be totally different 20081102 14:01:41 also translator *do* understand English so they can play in English, I care more about the players who don't understand English at all 20081102 14:02:14 I’m against of not shipping untranslated campaigns... 20081102 14:02:30 mordante: Of course. But think of it this way: An untranslated campaign is shipped. What is the effect? English-speakers gain, and *no one loses*! Because from a non-English-speaker's point of view, an untranslated campaign can never be worse than one that is not there at all. 20081102 14:02:40 esr how would you feel if you think you only need to do 600 things before your project is ready and then somebody just ups that to 1200? 20081102 14:03:12 mordante: =That happens to me a lot. I cope :-) 20081102 14:03:16 imho worst thing there that there is, is half-translated campaigns 20081102 14:03:29 esr yes, but do you like it? 20081102 14:03:39 Smar yes agreed 20081102 14:03:41 because of that(partly) many finnish players just uses english version. 20081102 14:03:42 esr: your assumption is not true 20081102 14:03:52 so eh. 20081102 14:03:59 I don't have to like it. I just have to do my job., 20081102 14:04:09 as has been pointed out, an half-translated campaign is much more frustrating for a player than no campaign 20081102 14:04:42 I suggest ability of disabling translation from such campaigns 20081102 14:04:52 esr yes or you can resign and no longer care. Translators are volunteers so resigning is easy 20081102 14:04:59 boucman: So, the right answer is simple: Ship fully-translated campaigns, or untranslated ones, but never half-translated ones :-) 20081102 14:05:21 Ivanovic: no plan, just lurking and being inactive ;-) 20081102 14:05:37 maxy: okay 20081102 14:05:48 esr: exactly, and that's why we don't want one more campaign, to avoid diluting the work of translators 20081102 14:05:52 maxy: maybe you want to do some optimisations for low end machines? 20081102 14:05:58 (ram optimizations welcome) 20081102 14:06:05 ivanovic * r30528 /branches/1.4/ (players_changelog po/wesnoth-manpages/fi.po): updated Finnish translation 20081102 14:06:16 ivanovic * r30529 /trunk/po/wesnoth-manpages/fi.po: updated Finnish translation 20081102 14:06:51 boucman: You're not making any sense. They can work on half-translated campaigns out of sight of the players. 20081102 14:07:02 I usually start optimizing when it hurts on my PC... and busy with other projects atm 20081102 14:07:09 not sure what you mean 20081102 14:07:24 I wouldn’t mind one campaign more; I don’t even think that I’d be able to translate everything 20081102 14:07:49 Smar: there is already the big block called "legend of wesmere" 20081102 14:08:14 mh 20081102 14:08:41 boucman: I'm hearing a lot of "but we must make work easy for translators" and it just plain doesn't make sense to me. They'll choose to work on the campaigns tht interest them -- I don't think adding campaigns matters in that way. 20081102 14:09:24 Last time we discussed this, Torangan said text instability in main line bothers them much more than new content. 20081102 14:09:29 esr: you obviously don't understand how a translation team works 20081102 14:09:38 esr: exactly. 20081102 14:09:50 what makes a transltation team work is the race to 100% 20081102 14:10:00 I don’t give translation jobs to people, they translates what they want. 20081102 14:10:12 boucman: this is not paid work. 20081102 14:10:13 if we move the target too fast, they won't join the race, and we will loose all translations 20081102 14:10:29 Smar: I know, that's why the race is what's motivating translators 20081102 14:10:31 But: *Torangan said text instability in main line bothers them much more than new content.* He was very clear about this. 20081102 14:10:50 esr: that does not mean that new content doesn't bother them 20081102 14:11:42 esr: true, I’d still like to wait a bit before moving to 1.5 20081102 14:11:43 how many strings do you new campaign add ? 20081102 14:11:43 Torangan doesn't seem to think it does. But even if it did, conditioning our dexisions that way would be letting the tail wag the dog. 20081102 14:12:07 esr: we've been disagreein on that point since the start 20081102 14:12:24 Not *mine* -- it's santi's mainly. How do you measure? 20081102 14:12:30 you can't apply "dog tail" to translation because translations are an important part of wesnoth and can be a driving factor 20081102 14:13:05 esr: not sure: compile the po, it give the number of strings at the end 20081102 14:13:12 Can br a driving factor? That seems nitty, unless the translators are writing campaigns. 20081102 14:13:28 some are 20081102 14:13:30 s/nitty/nutty/ 20081102 14:13:32 but that's not the point 20081102 14:13:47 you don't consider translations as part of wesnoth quality, we do 20081102 14:13:47 translations also help to attract new players 20081102 14:14:06 we consider half translated content as having not just a neutral, but a negative impact on wesnoth 20081102 14:14:13 we care about our translations, you don't 20081102 14:14:21 and that's basically the git of our argument 20081102 14:14:42 Right, I understand all that. So, switch off translation on shipped campaigns that haven't been all the way translated. 20081102 14:15:14 Have two classes: "this has translations", and "English-only but we're working on it". 20081102 14:15:59 It's not true that I don't care about translations, I just think it's insane t o put them above content. 20081102 14:16:14 ditto. 20081102 14:16:49 heck, it’s not possible to get everything translated immediately 20081102 14:17:03 -!- marek_ [n=marek@85.132.159.239] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 14:17:10 If what you want is not to expose partial translations, then *don't do that*. But it should be a packaging decision, not one that craps all over content policy. 20081102 14:17:28 Smar no that's why we don't want to add the content just before the string freeze :\ 20081102 14:17:33 :| 20081102 14:17:49 :) I know 20081102 14:17:57 hi, please, can i open .mo file? 20081102 14:18:19 marek_ I think you want to open the .po file instead 20081102 14:18:30 or, how do i make .mo file 20081102 14:18:39 esr: no, you miss the "dilution" part of the reasoning 20081102 14:18:58 Explain it to me, then. 20081102 14:19:16 it's not (only) about masking partially translated stuff, it's also about helping translators make priorities and not drop the game because of the sheer amount of work 20081102 14:20:17 Except Torangan has already told us this is not really an issue, that new-content doesn't demotivate them. It's continual instability in mainline they don't like. 20081102 14:20:37 So your notion of "dilution" rests on a false premise. 20081102 14:20:52 -!- marek_ [n=marek@85.132.159.239] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20081102 14:21:01 boucman: we have gettext.wesnoth.org already 20081102 14:21:10 esr: so developers should work now on fixing instablility bugs; not polishing campaigns 20081102 14:22:24 stikonas: Well...the good news there is that the most inveterate prose=polisher (which is to say, me) has already done most of the rewriting of mainline that he's going to. 20081102 14:22:45 ok, got to go 20081102 14:22:49 bye all 20081102 14:23:11 bye 20081102 14:24:16 esr: new content shortly before the freeze does demotivate 20081102 14:24:48 not as bad as a "hey, lets completely rewrite the existing campaign since i still have 2h before the freeze starts" 20081102 14:24:52 but it is almost as bad 20081102 14:25:28 and i agree that we should ship wesnoth as good as we can 20081102 14:25:43 which means as good for english players as well as those using translated versions 20081102 14:26:41 discouraging translators from working on things by adding stuff late in the process is bad as complete and big rewrites of content shortly before the freeze are, too 20081102 14:26:48 just that switch to disable (half-translated) a translation from certain campaign could be useful... 20081102 14:27:09 Smar: it has to be a switch at packaging time so that those po files are not shipped 20081102 14:27:22 there is no way to determin it ingame once the po was compiled to a mo file 20081102 14:27:35 Ivanovic: I don't think I'm making an English-centric argument. It's not that I want us to treat English preferentially (or at least no more so than the fact that we write in English already forces) it's that I want to put the *players* first. 20081102 14:27:53 Before the translators. 20081102 14:27:55 ehm... I meant like, that you can play a campaign using english .mo whilst the game is in finnish. or is that possible? 20081102 14:28:02 esr you still ignore the non English speakers :| 20081102 14:28:26 esr: esr i put the translators before the (english speaking) players because if we don't treat them with respect we might end without any translators 20081102 14:28:45 Smar: there is no english.mo 20081102 14:29:06 well, just disabling the campaign translation 20081102 14:29:06 mordante: No, I don't think shipping untranslated content injures the non-English speakers, therefore I don't see it is an issue. 20081102 14:29:24 Smar: and there is no way to automatically determin if the campaign is completely translated once the po file is compiled to "useable ingame" (as in mo file) 20081102 14:29:25 I don’t know how wesnoth’s translation system works, though 20081102 14:29:48 like i said, the only way to "disable" the translation is not creating the mo file when compiling/installing 20081102 14:29:58 hmh :/ 20081102 14:30:01 Ivanovic: If we want to treat them weith respect, the way to do it is not hoiling back new content bbut by hard-freezing the old. 20081102 14:30:09 esr it does, I have this nice game only half of the campaigns are unusable since I don't speak English 20081102 14:30:14 esr: so lets compromise: you can add delfadors memories now and 1.6 will not be out before easter 2009 20081102 14:30:18 does this sound good to you? 20081102 14:30:29 s/hoiling/holding/ 20081102 14:30:54 Ivanovic: Will feature freeze affect scons script and window installer? 20081102 14:30:58 *windows 20081102 14:30:59 loonycyborg: no 20081102 14:31:00 and of course no more new stuff then until 1.6 20081102 14:31:19 Well, I wasn't expecting it to be out any sooner than that anyway due to the AI issues. So I would readily make that bargain. 20081102 14:31:32 loonycyborg no since it sounds like a bug 20081102 14:31:32 loonycyborg: this stuff is packager work, so it does not make sense to feature freeze it 20081102 14:31:58 esr: i expect it to be ready *a lot* earlier 20081102 14:32:17 still it would be nice to have a complete list of blockers for 1.6 20081102 14:32:47 Ivanovic: maybe you can adopt 'content freeze' as official policy which takes place some time before feature freeze in next development cycles. 20081102 14:32:49 And I'm not hot to add DM *right now*, either. Santi has to confirm he thinks it's ready. And I think that is blocked on Sirp fixing some of the AI bugs. 20081102 14:33:45 Ivanovic: Then I don't have any plans of working on anything that can be affected by feature freeze and can't wait for 1.7. 20081102 14:34:41 I am passionate about this issue not specifically because of DM but because I want us to have our priorities right, and constantly trimming our sails to what we think might not offend translators seems backwards to me. 20081102 14:34:50 esr please post to the dev-ml as well and if we start to delay until easter I rather also finish my widgets before 1.6 20081102 14:34:59 loonycyborg: still it would be good to list that you plan to do further work on packaging stuff 20081102 14:34:59 like I wrote on the dev-ml 20081102 14:35:59 stikonas: that is the plan anyway 20081102 14:36:32 I think are not going to be able to make any intelligent scheduling decisions until Sirp gives us some indication of how much surgery and testing the AI will need. 20081102 14:37:58 If the AI code hadn't gone all pear-shaped on us, I'd have thought we were good to go for a 1.6 release perhaps as soon a late January. Now I don't think that's going to happen. 20081102 14:38:29 esr: i am not sure that this is not possible anyway 20081102 14:39:05 Ivanovic: Soory, I got lost in your multiple negations. Explain? 20081102 14:39:28 since: if we start the feature freeze rather soon, we might be able to wipe out the smaller and bigger bugs till end of january 20081102 14:39:48 -!- valer [n=s@parsa.yok.utu.fi] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 14:40:06 and yes, even this huge bug called "AI" 20081102 14:40:36 though if we shedule things for easter 2009 it is likely to get further delayed resulting in a release of 1.6 ~mid may 20081102 14:40:43 Ivanovic: I'm skeptical. But I'm also in favor of feature-freezing the game core starting some time in the near future. 20081102 14:41:06 hey, it is *possible* does not mean it will happen 20081102 14:41:18 it just ups the chance if we concentrate on bugs instead of new features 20081102 14:41:30 I'm not in favour of a long feature freeze since it will stall my widgets :| 20081102 14:41:46 and those changes are features and not bugs 20081102 14:42:13 mordante: How long don you think it will be before your widgets land? Because I'd really like to see those make 1.6. 20081102 14:42:16 mordante: yeah, that is one of the problems 20081102 14:42:31 esr: it will take a long time till the widgets are all complete 20081102 14:42:57 beside this: what to do about ANL ? 20081102 14:43:12 since it is broken atm due to some stuff in multiplayer being broken 20081102 14:43:16 esr still quite some time second half of 2009 at least, as I wrote on the dev-ml ;) 20081102 14:43:17 and this area in a general flacky state 20081102 14:43:55 mordante: In that case, we *can't* hold 1.6 waiting for them. That's important information. 20081102 14:43:59 beside this: i would like to have 1.5.6 out next weekend being "content complete" 20081102 14:44:20 that is: everything we want to add and/or remove in this version 20081102 14:44:30 so we should really come to a decision about ANL 20081102 14:44:46 well if we start to delay until easter I prefer to wait longer so I can finish it 20081102 14:44:48 Ivanovic: Ihave no opinion on ANL. 20081102 14:45:06 I don't want a feature freeze for 4 months and get the widgets on hold for that time 20081102 14:46:30 mordante: it is possible to make a separate branch for 1.6 during freeze 20081102 14:46:32 Right. So that tells us the new widgers are a 1.7 project, definitely, and should not affect the 1,6 schedule. 20081102 14:46:36 -!- Soliton [n=Soliton@rzdspc10.informatik.uni-hamburg.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081102 14:47:07 stikonas branching is annoying, done it before and not in the mood to do it again 20081102 14:47:36 especially since the widgets make changes all over the place 20081102 14:47:41 mordante: Yes, I also would prefer not to branch. Merging sucks. 20081102 14:47:43 that is another case why i would like to have a list of "what is planned atm" 20081102 14:47:51 atm i consider two options: 20081102 14:47:54 -!- Soliton [n=Soliton@rzdspc10.informatik.uni-hamburg.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 14:48:09 doing a really hard freeze very soon and trying to get 1.6 out at FOSDEM 20081102 14:48:18 (so having an rc late january, ...) 20081102 14:48:23 Wen is FOSDEM? 20081102 14:48:30 Great, my allies are busy killing falcons... which give me time to get their villages. Bwuahahahahaha. 20081102 14:48:34 option 2: starting a semi hard freeze really soon 20081102 14:48:37 esr: febuary 20081102 14:48:43 Ah. 20081102 14:48:45 semi hard freeze meaning this: 20081102 14:48:59 basically no new features are allowed that are not stated as "okay" right now 20081102 14:49:13 so the work on widgets can be continued in the main tree for some more time 20081102 14:49:28 but not "hey, i got this great new plan, lets rewrite everything" until 1.6 is out 20081102 14:49:38 In IftU sometimes the images of the people who speak at the end of a scenario are missing. 20081102 14:50:04 Patterner: any message regarding "missing image" in the log? 20081102 14:50:23 eg wrong filenames used (case sensitive?), images not shipped, ... 20081102 14:50:58 Ivanovic some of my widget changes I want to make are quite intrusive :( 20081102 14:51:09 but I'm off now 20081102 14:51:13 mordante: wait a second 20081102 14:51:20 ok 20081102 14:51:20 mordante: i know that some are intrusive 20081102 14:51:40 *but* you would have to be done with the stuff till ~one month before the planned date for the release 20081102 14:51:51 Ivanovic: You could feature-freeze the C++ core tomorrow and I wouldn't mind. If the widgets aren't going to ship until after June 2009 I don't think we have any feature plans that are worth delaying 1.6 for. 20081102 14:51:54 since you are around a lot, this should give you enough time to work on the bugs 20081102 14:52:28 esr: i am currently waiting for a list of "features" that people are working on and want to have done 20081102 14:52:29 esr there are some blockers in the widgets, please read my post at the dev-ml :| 20081102 14:52:38 I will. 20081102 14:52:44 really off now 20081102 14:52:45 esr: and personally i think that the content freeze is more important than the c++ freeze 20081102 14:52:49 okay, cu mordante 20081102 14:52:56 -!- mordante [n=chatzill@roadie.xs4all.nl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 20081102 14:54:11 Ivanovic: Probably. And there are two different drop-dead dates: when we string-freeze mainlne, and when we block new content (effectively thgat's just DM, as I have no hope of finishing Night March in time). 20081102 14:55:13 jupp 20081102 14:55:22 I'm pretty flexible on the freeze date for existing mainline; once I get the wmllint spellcheck pass done, I'll be prestty much finished there. 20081102 14:55:53 the "content freeze" in this case means "the content itself should be rather stable, we will not add/remove big things but concentrate on fixing typos/grammar mistakes and logical errors" 20081102 14:56:11 regarding that translations issue you've been fighting over: wouldn't be a problem if there was a way for the player to see which campaigns are translated to their language and which aren't. 20081102 14:56:25 zookeeper: Agreed. 20081102 14:56:42 zookeeper: like i already said: there is no way to do so 20081102 14:56:51 that is the problem when the stuff is compiled to mp 20081102 14:56:54 s/mp/mo 20081102 14:57:13 it is just a lookup table of strings and when it is not found, it is fallen back to the original 20081102 14:57:21 Ivanovic: If that's what you mean by "content freeze", you could call freeze in a week from now and I'd br good with that. 20081102 14:57:22 no way to say how many strings are done and how many not 20081102 14:57:23 the problem for the non-english users is that they don't see whether this campaign or that campaign is translated to their language. that's the only reason why shipping untranslated campaigns is annoying for them. 20081102 14:57:39 zookeeper: yes 20081102 14:57:47 So, let's fix that. 20081102 14:57:49 if they would see that "oh, this one isn't translated to my language" or "oh, this is only 20% translated" then it wouldn't be a problem to have such a campaign there. 20081102 14:57:53 still the only way to get around this, is not shipping a translation that is not 100% complete 20081102 14:58:12 and there is *zero* way to nicely do the "this is translated 20%" thingie 20081102 14:59:04 the only thing to do is: drop the translation for content if not 100% complete 20081102 14:59:18 and how should we go about the ingame help? 20081102 14:59:35 drop the core translation, if the main file, units, multiplayers and lib are not 100%? 20081102 14:59:45 since even "just" this part is a lot of work 20081102 15:00:25 we had a policy for 1.0 to just ship translations that are at 100% for the core parts (by now this is wesnoth, wesnoth-units, wesnoth-multiplayer, wesnoth-lib and wesnoth-editor) 20081102 15:00:46 though we agreed on not being this strict for non X.0 releases 20081102 15:00:59 Ivanovic: well, the images were there during the scenario, e.g. galas. 20081102 15:01:13 I'll check it the next time I see it. 20081102 15:01:25 afk for a while 20081102 15:04:28 at the moment this is the list of core packages: wesnoth wesnoth-lib wesnoth-units wesnoth-multiplayer wesnoth-httt wesnoth-tutorial 20081102 15:05:07 should we leave httt in there? 20081102 15:05:14 IMO no 20081102 15:05:39 How about: when creating a .mo file, first count the untranslated strings is the .po file, then write the percentage with a script to an extra string in the .po file. This string would not be shown in dialogs if it's 100% (which would be default for US-English). 20081102 15:05:48 Ivanovic, couldn't we do something like add a translatable string to the campaign menu entries stating something like "not translated to your language" which the translators would then translate to an empty string when they're done? ok, obviously it wouldn't catch cases when the translators finish and then there's string changes made, but would some similar but not-so-horribly-complicated-hack be possible? 20081102 15:06:15 or something like what valer said. i know i've once asked about the possibility of that before, but apparently it wasn't feasible...for some reason 20081102 15:06:19 it would be really good though. 20081102 15:06:30 it is *difficult* to do 20081102 15:06:53 Ivanovic: I have some bash script that does something similar 20081102 15:06:55 -!- Rhuvaen [n=chatzill@dslb-088-074-052-125.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 15:07:35 but only for 1 language 20081102 15:10:44 -!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@91.108.145.20] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 15:12:23 give me some time to think about nice ways to do things... 20081102 15:17:42 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 15:21:06 -!- valer [n=s@parsa.yok.utu.fi] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20081102 15:22:51 -!- Netsplit niven.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: esr, Tigge, BenUrban 20081102 15:22:51 -!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-166-125.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20081102 15:23:39 -!- Netsplit over, joins: BenUrban, esr, Tigge 20081102 15:30:06 iuh. 20081102 15:30:10 hy grzywacz 20081102 15:30:14 *hi 20081102 15:30:50 hey Shadow_Master 20081102 15:31:05 oh dear... 20081102 15:31:10 zookeeper: around? 20081102 15:31:17 grzywacz: did you get my email? 20081102 15:31:31 I just edited your post instead of quoting (those ^%#! buttons are right next to each other) 20081102 15:34:25 phew, managed to restore from browser cache... 20081102 15:35:15 grzywacz: I sent it to the email addy on the copyright notice of trunk/src/soundsource.cpp btw 20081102 15:35:53 Shadow_Master, that server has been closed some time ago, so the answer is no :) 20081102 15:36:15 Rhuvaen, yeah 20081102 15:36:30 :( what's the point of having your email in afile's copyright notice if you don't upda teit 20081102 15:36:52 k... where can I resend it? 20081102 15:36:57 Rhuvaen, oh. 20081102 15:37:34 I think the buttons are like that since we moved to forum version 3? 20081102 15:38:32 Rhuvaen: quote button lying beside the edit one? I think it's been so since version 2 even 20081102 15:39:20 torangan once made the same mistake with my post :p 20081102 15:40:07 zookeeper: I read you're working on bandit branch of TSG now? 20081102 15:40:58 Rhuvaen, yes! 20081102 15:41:09 I think I should have some time (before 1.6 anyway) to spend on The Long March, if it's still in a mediocre state 20081102 15:41:11 ivanovic * r30531 /branches/1.4/ (1279 files in 96 dirs): 20081102 15:41:11 running wesnoth-optipng from trunk: 20081102 15:41:11 Overall statistics (only for files with a smaller recompressed size): 20081102 15:41:11 Original size: 23628 KB on 1279 files 20081102 15:41:11 Optimized size: 23101 KB 20081102 15:41:12 Total saving: 527 KB = 2% decrease 20081102 15:41:19 Rhuvaen, i'll only do relatively small tweaks to the last two scenarios, but i finished the long march already 20081102 15:41:22 ivanovic * r30530 /branches/resources/gettext.wesnoth.org/public_html/wesnoth-gettext/westats/ (config.php index.extra.php index.lang.php index.php): 20081102 15:41:22 correct dates in footer 20081102 15:41:22 change list of core packages (add -editor, remove -httt) 20081102 15:41:30 however, i wouldn't mind if you tried it out and gave some feedback :) 20081102 15:41:33 ah, nice :) 20081102 15:42:11 i haven't _really_ played through it in a normal manner yet myself 20081102 15:42:30 I haven't given the dev version a spin since the 1.5.1 release 20081102 15:43:06 not yet 20081102 15:43:45 i made the long march now have a randomized path through the forest 20081102 15:43:58 undead spawning behind you only, and random elf ambushers along the way 20081102 15:44:20 um, nobody documented my store_time_of_day 20081102 15:44:31 urza reveals the part of the secret road within his vision range at the start of each turn 20081102 15:44:41 shadowmaster * r30532 /trunk/misc/fortunes/wesnoth: * Added a couple of sentences 20081102 15:44:47 sounds good 20081102 15:44:56 * Shadow_Master removes dust from wiki account 20081102 15:45:18 but then again, maybe i shouldn't have explained that to you so you could have told me if the in-game explanation was sufficient :p 20081102 15:46:17 ha :) 20081102 15:49:01 is there some feedback to the new gold retention scheme in... (I forgot which campaigns)? 20081102 15:49:11 well, not much 20081102 15:49:32 the AI problems made playtesting campaigns a bit pointless in the last release or two 20081102 15:50:02 sure... and then people don't start over from scratch because they'll have less gold carried over :) 20081102 15:54:19 zookeeper: I documented [store_time_of_day] on the wiki, InternalActionsWML. I implemented it sometime ago before 1.5.5 was released, so you should be able to use it. 20081102 15:54:56 Shadow_Master, great, thanks 20081102 15:55:18 i was actually looking for it a while ago, and couldn't really add it myself since i didn't know how it works 20081102 15:58:34 Shadow_Master: it's not in the alphabetical WML tags list 20081102 15:58:56 oops, we always forget to add them there 20081102 15:59:46 fixed 20081102 16:01:37 -!- mjs-de [n=mjs-de@vpw.wh.uni-dortmund.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 16:02:38 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit ["Reconnecting"] 20081102 16:02:42 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 16:03:17 -!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe11fa00-51.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 20081102 16:03:37 ivanovic * r30533 /trunk/ (1487 files in 112 dirs): 20081102 16:03:37 running utils/wesnoth-optipng 20081102 16:03:37 Overall statistics (only for files with a smaller recompressed size): 20081102 16:03:37 Original size: 38348 KB on 1487 files 20081102 16:03:37 Optimized size: 37219 KB 20081102 16:03:38 Total saving: 1128 KB = 2% decrease 20081102 16:04:13 mwaaaaaa... 20081102 16:04:25 1487 files! *smashes head on keyboard* 20081102 16:05:37 -!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20081102 16:06:37 The worst part is that it's due to my own patch :& 20081102 16:07:15 -!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.220] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 16:10:13 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit ["Reloading client"] 20081102 16:10:38 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 16:12:02 Now why would wesnoth-optipng suddenly affect so much files? 20081102 16:12:55 has it been run before after applying the patch I applied? 20081102 16:13:05 I bet not, so it is perfectly... normal. 20081102 16:14:48 Were all those images update since last optipng? 20081102 16:14:55 *updated 20081102 16:15:53 (the patch I applied crushes PNG files even more by tweaking the compression settings - something the former wesnoth-optipng didn't since it just tweaked the PNG data) 20081102 16:17:09 uhm... it touched images/ again 20081102 16:17:58 oh s**t 20081102 16:18:23 Shadow_Master: You're doing svn up? 20081102 16:18:25 :) 20081102 16:19:01 why did it touch images/misc again? did Espreon run an ancient wesnoth-optipng or wha? 20081102 16:19:35 and my own copy wants to optimize it yet again 20081102 16:20:11 Ivanovic: what does advpng -V say? 20081102 16:21:58 "command not found" :) 20081102 16:23:17 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit ["Reconnecting"] 20081102 16:23:21 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 16:25:05 Patterner: "emerge advancecomp" :) 20081102 16:25:51 ugh, sorry. Ivanovic , the command is advdef -V 20081102 16:36:32 $ advdef -V 20081102 16:36:34 advancecomp v1.15 by Andrea Mazzoleni 20081102 16:37:09 it is the same version I'm using. then why it still wants to recompress latest images/misc here :( 20081102 16:37:16 same here 20081102 16:37:24 I'll do another run =P 20081102 16:37:26 a second run doesn't want to do anything with it 20081102 16:37:45 maybe it has to do with the local system somehow? 20081102 16:39:08 ugh 20081102 16:39:18 wesnoth-optipng:75 20081102 16:40:02 -!- stikonas [n=and@sms13.ktl.mii.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 16:40:30 what about it 20081102 16:40:31 I suspect it may cause files to be crushable for at least 4 runs? 20081102 16:41:07 right... 20081102 16:41:26 (4 runs of the whole script) 20081102 16:41:40 but what do those lines do? overwrite the previous output? 20081102 16:41:43 right 20081102 16:42:14 right, $1 is the niceness level 20081102 16:42:23 s/$1/$2 20081102 16:42:30 and? :p 20081102 16:42:51 (anyway advdef won't overwrite the previous output if the new one is bigger unless the f switch is passed) 20081102 16:42:57 k 20081102 16:43:17 I'll run it until it stops doing anything 20081102 16:43:47 do it on images/misc and commit the results, I'll rerun it there 20081102 16:44:09 k 20081102 16:44:17 it's already running 20081102 16:47:24 11 kB so far 20081102 16:50:00 * AI0867 kicks CIA-33 20081102 16:50:00 ow 20081102 16:50:05 shikadibot: log head 20081102 16:50:07 Revision 30534 (ai0867 2008-11-02 15:49:54 +0000 (Sun, 02 Nov 2008)): 20081102 16:50:07 * Ran optipng, 28 kB saved (5%). 20081102 16:50:07 Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=30534 20081102 16:50:10 ai0867 * r30534 /trunk/images/ (381 files in 11 dirs): * Ran optipng, 28 kB saved (5%). 20081102 16:50:11 k 20081102 16:50:50 I'll re run it to see what happens 20081102 16:50:53 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit ["Away"] 20081102 16:51:45 ai0867 * r30535 /trunk/data/core/images/editor/ (16 files): * Ran optipng, 1 KB (12%) saved. 20081102 16:52:20 my /trunk/data/core/images/ run should be done in a couple of hours 20081102 16:52:34 so please don't mess around with the images til that's done 20081102 16:58:34 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 16:59:23 Shadow_Master: running optipng on /trunk/data/core/images atm 20081102 16:59:52 I got a mess here for running wesnoth-optipng on the wrong location 20081102 16:59:57 * Shadow_Master running a batch svn revert 20081102 17:00:30 I've realized that this HDD is really slow :) 20081102 17:03:19 -!- Elvish_Pillage2 [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 17:07:13 something weird is going on here 20081102 17:08:51 -!- loonycyborg_ [n=sergey@79.139.247.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 17:09:19 aha, Firefox is draining my RAM for no reason at all 20081102 17:09:28 50 k on the image so far 20081102 17:09:59 so svn revert was ... swapping to virtual memory 20081102 17:11:18 right, images/misc won't crush anymore 20081102 17:11:27 k 20081102 17:12:02 so... wesnoth-optipng needs to be made to know how to crush files until no more space can be saved :/ 20081102 17:12:37 loop? 20081102 17:12:42 should be easy 20081102 17:12:49 looping what? 20081102 17:13:08 filter for the files that were changed, rerun on them 20081102 17:14:09 well, and what's the variable to test? 20081102 17:14:57 should be relatively obvious for people who know ruby 20081102 17:15:27 I'm reluctant to change it while it's running though =P 20081102 17:15:32 ruby? 20081102 17:15:46 I rewrote it in Bash, remember? (and has been faster for me ever since) 20081102 17:15:50 oh 20081102 17:15:55 then it was the other way around 20081102 17:16:01 -!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@94.29.26.179] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081102 17:16:30 well, you already filter the output to see if it saved space 20081102 17:16:40 if it did append the filename to something 20081102 17:16:42 and so on 20081102 17:17:16 -!- loonybot [n=loonybot@94.29.26.179] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081102 17:17:27 the output is filtered by advdef itself, not the script 20081102 17:17:53 (keep in mind that the introduction of advdef was an external patch) 20081102 17:18:10 -!- loonycyborg_ is now known as loonycyborg 20081102 17:19:25 -!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081102 17:20:07 AI0867, boucman, Dragonking, esr, ettin, grzywacz, loonycyborg, maxy, Rhuvaen, Shadow_Master, Sirp_, Soliton, suokko, uso: ready for 1.4.6? 20081102 17:20:14 any changes for the stable line in works? 20081102 17:20:18 not by me 20081102 17:20:29 neither me 20081102 17:20:34 -!- Sirp [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 17:20:43 Sirp: 17:20 < Ivanovic> AI0867, boucman, Dragonking, esr, ettin, grzywacz, loonycyborg, maxy, Rhuvaen, Shadow_Master, Sirp_, Soliton, suokko, uso: ready for 1.4.6? 20081102 17:20:51 no, I want to get back but haven't committed for a while :) 20081102 17:21:02 * Shadow_Master goes to grab a snack to watch the release 20081102 17:21:03 AI0867: sure. 20081102 17:21:36 hi Sirp 20081102 17:22:04 Sirp: has your new laptop already arrived? 20081102 17:22:17 Ivanovic: no, but it has been shipped. 20081102 17:23:39 Sirp: so soon you should be able to compile wesnoth again? 20081102 17:24:28 Ivanovic: exactly. 20081102 17:24:44 great 20081102 17:24:55 then you really should have a look at the AI 20081102 17:26:30 I'll see what I can do. 20081102 17:26:59 do we have bug reports which have attached saves and instructions on reproducing? 20081102 17:27:23 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit ["Reconnecting"] 20081102 17:27:29 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 17:35:12 my optipng run is making every image in the game smaller... 20081102 17:35:19 that'll be quite an svn update =P 20081102 17:35:49 yeah, but better that than updating from both Ivanovic's commit and yours 20081102 17:37:34 * Shadow_Master updating the resource branch... wants to see if the farnorth map can be improved 20081102 17:38:07 -!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe11fa00-51.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 17:38:23 20081103 13:36:44 error config: Could not open file data/SOUND_LIST:SWISH 20081102 17:38:58 Jetryl's commit 20081102 17:40:27 shadowmaster * r30536 /trunk/data/core/units/nagas/Fighter.cfg: * Corrected sound={SOUND_LIST:SWISH} with sound={SOUND_LIST:SWORD_SWISH}. 20081102 17:41:57 shikadibot: ls /branches/resources 20081102 17:42:07 shikadibot: dir /branches/resources 20081102 17:42:08 Web interface URL to directory /branches/resources: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/branches/resources 20081102 17:47:03 -!- Rh0nda changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.4.6 planned for sunday | 55 bugs, 208 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclog.wesnoth.org and http://wesnoth.org/irclogs | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://rafb.net/paste, http://paste.debian.net, http://pastebin.ca for images use http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add 20081102 17:49:31 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit ["Reconnecting"] 20081102 17:49:35 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 17:49:40 esr: around? 20081102 17:50:07 -!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 17:50:33 Sirp: no idea if we got such reports 20081102 17:50:39 maybe ask esr for some of this stuff 20081102 17:51:41 esr said he didn't have such stuff though he thought others may have. 20081102 18:06:57 the AI is really borked 20081102 18:07:57 playing IftU scenario 1, both AI players recruited on first turn whole castles, the second AI moved its leader; but on the second turn, only the last AI player moved a unit besides the leader, after moving the leader back to the keep 20081102 18:09:01 I cannot playtest under these conditions. Argh. My plan of releasing on Nov. 10th is spoiled. 20081102 18:10:57 s/on/before/ 20081102 18:14:14 Shadow_Master: I'm getting the same. 20081102 18:14:30 Which kinda breaks the story :) 20081102 18:15:27 {ATTACK_DEPTH 2 2 3} <- perhaps the AI is extremely scared? 20081102 18:15:50 I just got defeated on "Dawn of the Great War", although I have no idea why... 20081102 18:16:27 * Shadow_Master checks 20081102 18:16:40 turn 8, all 4 crownies are alive, allies swarming the field like rats... 20081102 18:16:47 or better, Patterner give me a saved game 20081102 18:16:48 Or not. Their leader calls them sluggards. That's why they don't move. They're sluggards :) 20081102 18:17:17 Patterner: right before you get defeated - I don't think I'll manage to test otherwise --- I may commit murder on the AI 20081102 18:17:49 rm -rf AI # die coward 20081102 18:17:52 you can send it as attachment to my forum PM i 20081102 18:18:39 zookeeper: do oyu happen to know where did esr (or you?) make farnorth.png from? 20081102 18:22:29 no (esr) 20081102 18:26:12 -!- stikonas [n=and@sms13.ktl.mii.lt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081102 18:45:05 Patterner: I see what happen 20081102 18:45:06 s 20081102 18:45:20 it is reaching the turn limit because the WML failed to change it :/ 20081102 18:46:09 speaking of breaking changes, yay. Now I wonder if someone just broke the gamestate interfaces I added, or this is just a minor thing 20081102 18:46:34 -!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-43-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 18:47:10 hi noy 20081102 18:48:45 the variable I use for increasing the turn limit is missing :/ 20081102 18:49:23 "Illegal character in map: (Yhs) 'Yhs'" 20081102 18:49:46 (map could not be loaded, illegal char, the scenario cannot be loaded) 20081102 18:49:47 Patterner: those appear due to the load-game snapshots. Ignore them 20081102 18:50:18 Could not open image 'utils/human-aragwaithi/sorcerer-attack.png' 20081102 18:50:22 I need to figure out a solution on the engine side to simply replace unknown hexes with void when generating load-game snapshots 20081102 18:50:28 err.. units... 20081102 18:51:04 that's due to the EE legacy :p Missing rahpics 20081102 18:51:30 you may as well put in a pastebin the whole stderr ;) 20081102 18:53:09 and discuss on #wesnoth-umc-dev 20081102 19:02:57 AI0867: have you finished that optipng run? 20081102 19:05:23 shadowmaster * r30537 /trunk/src/ (game_events.cpp soundsource.cpp soundsource.hpp): 20081102 19:05:23 * Reworked the interfaces for sound source, taking off some uncomfortable 20081102 19:05:23 coding practices. 20081102 19:05:23 This is my first step towards fixing a bug in which sound sources are 20081102 19:05:23 discarded on game load (bug #11495). Functionality should not be 20081102 19:05:24 affected by this commit. A experimental write() interface was added 20081102 19:05:28 to class soundspec but it is still unused and untested. 20081102 19:06:32 Shadow_Master: Do boost test and python checks work for you at the same time now? 20081102 19:06:43 yes 20081102 19:06:53 I mentioned that after you left last night 20081102 19:07:12 Shadow_Master: not yet 20081102 19:07:19 it's in terrain now 20081102 19:07:27 over 350 k saved 20081102 19:07:43 Oops! missed that :) 20081102 19:08:35 loonycyborg: every image got more compression as far as I can see 20081102 19:08:54 /images, /data/core/images 20081102 19:09:38 if I knew it could do this magic, I'd have had crushed my avatar even more 20081102 19:09:42 -!- miq [n=miq@krlh-5d83a213.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 19:10:36 AI0867: Maybe this is caused by advancecomp or zlib update.. 20081102 19:10:55 no, it is caused by a bug in the wesnoth-optipng patch (or better, a flaw) 20081102 19:11:02 loonycyborg * r30538 /trunk/ (SConstruct scons/install.py): Added env.InstallBinary wrapper method and made use of it. 20081102 19:11:09 loonycyborg * r30539 /trunk/SConstruct: Removed dead code. 20081102 19:11:42 I'll think how to fix it after dealing with some C+ 20081102 19:11:43 + 20081102 19:11:51 -!- mrjones [n=a@77-253-64-197.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 19:13:38 -!- mjs-de [n=mjs-de@vpw.wh.uni-dortmund.de] has quit ["On the road again"] 20081102 19:15:30 I'll go work at a location where I can turn on my speakers without bothering anyone, cya later 20081102 19:25:24 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit ["leaving"] 20081102 19:43:15 -!- maxy [n=maxy@80-219-1-12.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [] 20081102 19:55:37 -!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-71-59-35-203.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 19:55:59 yo 20081102 19:56:02 hi Sapient 20081102 19:56:09 yo Sirp 20081102 19:56:24 thespaceinvader: nice drake frames 20081102 19:57:10 thanks sapient =) 20081102 19:57:25 still need to sort out that recover frame though 20081102 19:58:44 -!- Baufo [n=thomas@62-47-138-64.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 20:04:09 okay, unit and terrain images are done 20081102 20:04:14 optimizing the portraits now 20081102 20:04:37 so far, 140 bytes on every portrait by Kitty... 20081102 20:05:29 Ivanovic: I cannot post mail to wesnoth-dev ml 20081102 20:05:40 so I will post my 1.5 features on the wiki 20081102 20:06:35 AI0867, is there any point in committing images with such tiny savings? 20081102 20:09:41 let me know when it is safe to svn up again ^_^ 20081102 20:09:51 AI0867: hurry a little, i would like to get 1.4.6 out *now* 20081102 20:10:11 of, you're talking of 1.4...nevermind i said anything. 20081102 20:10:42 zookeeper: he is probably talking about trunk, too 20081102 20:12:03 this is trunk 20081102 20:12:20 you can ignore me if you don't touch trunk's images 20081102 20:12:20 do we really need to list 3 pastebin services in the topic? 20081102 20:12:29 how about wesnoth.pastebin.com? 20081102 20:12:42 ok, I will put that one instead 20081102 20:12:48 AI0867, BenUrban, boucman, Dragonking, esr, ettin, grzywacz, loonycyborg, noy, Rhuvaen, Sapient, Sirp, Soliton, suokko, zookeeper, anyone_else_who_cares: ready for 1.4.6? 20081102 20:13:00 i'm not touching 1.4, so yeah. 20081102 20:13:01 all set for me 20081102 20:13:17 neither am I 20081102 20:13:42 done here 20081102 20:17:10 -!- Sapient changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.4.6 planned for sunday | List 1.6 features here: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Wesnoth1.6Features | 55 bugs, 208 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://wesnoth.org/irclogs | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com, or for images: http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add 20081102 20:17:42 ivanovic * r30540 /trunk/po/wesnoth-manpages/fi.po: fix wrong tags which stop compiling the manpages 20081102 20:18:55 ivanovic * r30541 /branches/1.4/po/wesnoth-manpages/fi.po: fix wrong tags which stop compiling the manpages 20081102 20:19:07 -!- Baufo [n=thomas@62-47-138-64.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 20081102 20:25:36 -!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 20:29:38 Hola todo el mundo. 20081102 20:29:43 hi Espreon 20081102 20:29:59 I cannot wait for 1.4.6 to be released... 20081102 20:30:07 why so? 20081102 20:30:10 Because one of my fixes will be in 1.4.6... 20081102 20:33:14 -!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20081102 20:33:23 esr: Here? 20081102 20:33:31 -!- BenUrban_ [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 20:35:47 -!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: releasing 1.4.6 now, using r30542 | List 1.6 features here: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Wesnoth1.6Features | 55 bugs, 208 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://wesnoth.org/irclogs | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com, or for images: http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add 20081102 20:36:47 YES! 20081102 20:37:36 -!- Sirp [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20081102 20:37:42 shikadibot: log 30542 20081102 20:37:44 Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=0 20081102 20:38:12 doesn't exist yet? 20081102 20:38:52 http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=30542 does? 20081102 20:38:57 -!- YogiHH [i=YogiHH@c219031.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 20:39:30 shikadibot: log 30542 20081102 20:39:31 Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=0 20081102 20:39:38 then shikadibot is broken? 20081102 20:39:42 shikadibot: log head 20081102 20:39:43 Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=0 20081102 20:39:55 -!- YogiHH [i=YogiHH@c219031.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20081102 20:40:37 * Sapient throws a wrench at shikadibot 20081102 20:42:18 ivanovic * r30543 /branches/1.4/ (5 files in 2 dirs): version bump to 1.4.6 20081102 20:42:22 ivanovic * r30542 /branches/1.4/ (114 files in 5 dirs): 20081102 20:42:22 po-update (no strings should have been changed) 20081102 20:42:22 regenerated doc files 20081102 20:45:15 Yay! 20081102 20:49:23 Bye guys. 20081102 20:49:26 I will be back soon. 20081102 20:49:28 -!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]"] 20081102 20:53:15 -!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: releasing 1.4.6 now, using r30545 | List 1.6 features here: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Wesnoth1.6Features | 55 bugs, 208 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://wesnoth.org/irclogs | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com, or for images: http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add 20081102 20:53:25 ai0867 * r30544 /trunk/data/core/images/ (4667 files in 56 dirs): * Ran optipng, saved 471 kB (1%) on 4667 files. 20081102 20:53:38 ivanovic * r30545 /branches/1.4/doc/man/Makefile.am: ported the manpages fix in a bad way 20081102 20:55:36 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 20:56:28 -!- Shadow_Master_ [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 20:57:12 shikadibot: optipng run is finished 20081102 20:57:24 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20081102 20:57:45 shadowmaster * r30546 /trunk/src/ (soundsource.cpp soundsource.hpp): 20081102 20:57:45 * Rewrote the experimental WML write interface. Now it is finished 20081102 20:57:45 and ready for real use. 20081102 20:57:45 * Sourcespecs may be built from WML config objects directly (reader 20081102 20:57:45 interface). 20081102 20:57:48 1% is better than 0%. 20081102 20:58:48 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 20:59:23 * Patterner runs subversion 20081102 20:59:40 Shadow_Master: I'm planning on making wesnoth find My Documents on windows to create userdata dir. 20081102 20:59:44 -!- Shadow_Master_ [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Client Quit] 20081102 21:00:27 What exactly was your concern with using LoadLibrary to get the function to query its location? 20081102 21:00:41 code complexity and maintenability 20081102 21:00:42 the current userdata location on Vista is really confusing people 20081102 21:00:59 I dealt with LoadLibrary once and it was... unelegant 20081102 21:01:20 Shadow_Master: AKAICT it's only one call to LoadLibrary and one call to GetProgAddress. 20081102 21:01:30 *Proc 20081102 21:01:56 And you also will need to provide function prototype. 20081102 21:02:02 That's it. 20081102 21:02:06 Or I'm wrong? 20081102 21:02:58 that is it, exactly. C unelegancy 20081102 21:03:14 not Windows Unelegancy? 20081102 21:03:36 Sapient: I thought nobody uses Vista 20081102 21:03:40 bah 20081102 21:03:51 Patterner: quit the sarcasm with Vista, 20081102 21:03:58 Patterner: why would you think that? 20081102 21:04:15 MS sells XP until 2037. 20081102 21:04:17 Patterner: Everyone bash vista :) 20081102 21:04:19 * Shadow_Master is trying hard to push 3 commits to the repo 20081102 21:04:48 Not bashing vista would be some real non-conformism :) 20081102 21:04:50 Patterner: I think you have a penguin stuck in your eyes 20081102 21:04:59 a lot of people are using Vista 20081102 21:05:07 including a few Wesnoth users 20081102 21:05:46 Sirp_ can provide stats 20081102 21:06:04 All people I know use either XP or (for legacy stuff) Win98. 20081102 21:06:24 Wesnoth users can't use Win98 anymore 20081102 21:07:07 crimson_penguin: could you maybe test if you find a way to compile the latest dev version under osx to create a mac binary? 20081102 21:07:16 grzywacz: ha, fixed the bug after all this time 20081102 21:07:18 that is: mordante would like to be sure that it is possible to create such 20081102 21:07:28 Pango/Cairo is nonfunctional with Win98 20081102 21:07:54 Ivanovic: well, I'm incredibly tired right now, but I can at least start by checking out svn 20081102 21:08:13 crimson_penguin: yeah, this would be great 20081102 21:08:51 where do I find the line to do that again? 20081102 21:09:44 ? 20081102 21:09:50 you mean the svn up command? 20081102 21:09:57 just cd into your checkout and do 'svn up' 20081102 21:10:07 okay, the recompression of images was *bad* 20081102 21:10:55 -!- mrjones [n=a@77-253-64-197.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 20081102 21:11:18 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081102 21:12:05 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 21:12:55 Ivanovic: I don't have a checkout currently :-/ 20081102 21:13:03 * crimson_penguin deleted it when he was really low on space 20081102 21:13:12 ah, okay 20081102 21:13:18 have a look at svn.wesnoth.org 20081102 21:13:38 grml, points to the wrong location... 20081102 21:13:51 yeah, that's not looking too useful 20081102 21:14:48 https://gna.org/svn/?group=wesnoth 20081102 21:14:55 that is where it *should* redirect to 20081102 21:15:18 svn co svn://svn.gna.org/svn/wesnoth/trunk wesnoth 20081102 21:18:32 $svn co svn://svn.gna.org/svn/wesnoth/trunk wesnoth 20081102 21:18:32 svn: Malformed network data 20081102 21:18:49 nevermind, I tried again and it's working 20081102 21:20:39 -!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20081102 21:20:56 -!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: releasing 1.4.6 now, using r30549 | List 1.6 features here: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Wesnoth1.6Features | 55 bugs, 208 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://wesnoth.org/irclogs | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com, or for images: http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add 20081102 21:31:22 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081102 21:32:38 -!- Sirp [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 21:36:18 shadowmaster * r30547 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: 20081102 21:36:18 * Make sound_source WML function use the new sourcespec config-based 20081102 21:36:18 constructor 20081102 21:36:18 * Sound sources are dumped to saved game state. (Pre-final step for 20081102 21:36:18 fixing bug #11495). 20081102 21:36:29 shadowmaster * r30548 /trunk/src/playsingle_controller.cpp: 20081102 21:36:29 * Sound sources are loaded from saved games. 20081102 21:36:29 This fixes bug #11495. 20081102 21:36:34 ivanovic * r30549 /branches/1.4/ (1279 files in 96 dirs): rollback the last wesnoth-optipng commit since it saved only little while drastically increasing the xdelta size 20081102 21:40:35 there's a crow sitting on an impassable Cave Wall.. 20081102 21:41:01 okay, looks like 1.4.6 works as expected 20081102 21:41:52 Ivanovic: I see you reverted optipng? Shadow_Master will be "glad" indeed :) 20081102 21:42:12 jupp 20081102 21:42:45 but i just reverted on 1.4.x 20081102 21:42:55 that is: the diff would have been 25MB instead of just 1.8MB 20081102 21:43:07 I don't see why people constantly insist on tweaking our compression algorithms 20081102 21:44:18 Ivanovic: If you reverted only 1.4 then why did I just get lots of pngs updated in trunk? 20081102 21:44:31 because AI0867 did some more optimisations 20081102 21:45:17 Ah. So it was AI's commit. 20081102 21:47:49 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 21:51:26 shadowmaster * r30550 /trunk/changelog: * Mention r30548 20081102 21:52:04 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Client Quit] 20081102 21:52:12 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 21:52:50 ew 20081102 21:53:55 Shadow_Master, big thanks 20081102 21:54:06 no problem 20081102 21:54:38 -!- BenUrban_ is now known as BenUrban 20081102 21:55:39 (there's a slight problem with this bug fix--- I cannot access bugs.wesnoth.org to mark it as Fixed without having connection drops) 20081102 21:55:39 * Shadow_Master tries to recall the URL for accessing a bug directly 20081102 21:56:14 I can close it. 20081102 21:56:25 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Client Quit] 20081102 21:56:43 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 21:56:54 Shadow_Master, marked as fixed 20081102 22:01:51 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081102 22:02:18 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 22:06:11 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Client Quit] 20081102 22:06:14 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 22:06:59 i'd dare say I cannot update after that wesnoth-optipng run :) 20081102 22:09:06 ivanovic * r30551 /tags/1.4.6/: tag 1.4.6 (using r30549) 20081102 22:09:11 -!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.4.6 released, will announce soon | List 1.6 features here: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Wesnoth1.6Features | 55 bugs, 208 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://wesnoth.org/irclogs | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com, or for images: http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add 20081102 22:15:04 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081102 22:15:50 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 22:23:47 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20081102 22:24:04 ivanovic * r30552 /branches/1.4/ (5 files in 2 dirs): post release version bump (to 1.4.6+svn) 20081102 22:24:24 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 22:24:51 grzywacz if you are there, thaks 20081102 22:24:55 grzywacz if you are there, thaks 20081102 22:25:58 * Shadow_Master is not really here. This is a mirage. 20081102 22:26:26 cya later, have fun. 20081102 22:26:26 -!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-71-59-35-203.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20081102 22:27:09 Ivanovic: what would you personally prefer to do? revert the advdef patch or fix the mess? (lazy self says revert) 20081102 22:27:50 revert 20081102 22:28:02 k, good idea 20081102 22:28:07 :) 20081102 22:28:20 what's wrong with advdef? 20081102 22:28:30 what's WRONG!? 20081102 22:28:45 yes? 20081102 22:29:00 AI0867: look at the resulting xdelta 20081102 22:29:06 friggin huge? 20081102 22:29:13 AI0867: 25MB xdelta instead of 1.8MB 20081102 22:29:17 (that was for 1.4) 20081102 22:29:17 advdef isn't a problem. The problem is how the patch uses it 20081102 22:29:24 it will not look much different for trunk 20081102 22:29:35 xdeltas for dev releases doesn't make much sense to me anyway 20081102 22:29:36 It never crossed my mind that I'd have to run wesnoth-optipng twice or thrice over a three to test the patch properly 20081102 22:29:45 reverting the run in 1.4 makes sense 20081102 22:31:40 anyway, i am off to bed now, got to get up *by far too early* tomorrow (something like 5:30am) 20081102 22:31:42 n8 20081102 22:32:04 Ivanovic: I added my entry to the 1.6Features wiki page. 20081102 22:32:38 ok 20081102 22:35:25 i'm not gonna reply to the ml after all, i'll just add my stuff to the page too 20081102 22:35:27 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081102 22:35:44 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 22:36:23 AI0867: xdeltas for dev releases don't make sense? oh dear... 20081102 22:36:32 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Client Quit] 20081102 22:37:11 -!- YogiHH [i=YogiHH@c219031.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 22:37:18 -!- YogiHH [i=YogiHH@c219031.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20081102 22:37:30 it doesn't save *that* much space 20081102 22:37:59 and if you're download the first tarball and then xdeltas, you may as well get an svn checkout 20081102 22:38:04 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 22:38:12 Shadow_Master: 22:37 < AI0867> it doesn't save *that* much space 20081102 22:38:12 22:37 < AI0867> and if you're download the first tarball and then xdeltas, you may as well get an svn checkout 20081102 22:38:37 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Client Quit] 20081102 22:38:42 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 22:39:11 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Client Quit] 20081102 22:39:24 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 22:39:40 AI0867: xdeltas for dev releases don't make sense? oh dear... if it wasn't for them I'd never got into Wesnoth :P 20081102 22:40:13 -!- Espreon [n=Espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 22:40:59 I'll try to revert the patch as soon as I can.... well 20081102 22:41:07 Hello people. 20081102 22:41:14 esr: Here? 20081102 22:41:15 as soon as I can even download today's IRC log, damnit :( 20081102 22:45:41 Espreon: I'm here. 20081102 22:46:36 esr: I will be back in a min... I need to ask you something... so please stay tuned. 20081102 22:47:18 one can ignore the "error ai: $FOO is getting leadership 1.25" message too, eh? 20081102 22:47:20 -!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-71-59-35-203.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 22:47:34 esr: got my PM? 20081102 22:48:42 Sapient: Looking... 20081102 22:48:57 Hello Sapient. 20081102 22:49:02 hi Espreon 20081102 22:49:28 I found that #enddef at the end of a line will always be recognized as an enddef 20081102 22:49:46 even if it is in a comment or multi-line quoted string 20081102 22:49:54 esr: where did you make farnorth.png then? 20081102 22:50:05 esr: Yeah, I noticed that DM uses the outdated Wose Shaman graphics... I was wondering if you knew that newer ones existed. 20081102 22:50:07 esr: ... pling pling pling 20081102 22:50:35 Sapient: Got it. Anything I should do about it? 20081102 22:50:48 Shadow_Master: I used the XCF stack in the resources repo. 20081102 22:50:53 which file? 20081102 22:51:10 esr: no, the enddef thing might possibly be a preprocessor bug 20081102 22:51:22 but wmliterator is working correctly now 20081102 22:51:32 Shadow_Master: great_continent.xcf. I made a new set of layers, all you have to do is make them visible. 20081102 22:51:51 Sapient: Yup, thanks. I've been using it heavily recently. 20081102 22:51:58 cool 20081102 22:52:08 Espreon: Where are the new ones? 20081102 22:52:13 -!- boucman [n=rosen@50.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081102 22:52:26 -!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-71-59-35-203.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [] 20081102 22:52:26 esr: In the EE, TSL and so on and so forth. 20081102 22:53:13 Sapient: It's well designed. I stayed away from it before only because you hadn't really documented it, so I had to code by guess. 20081102 22:53:40 Espreon: It sounds like Wose Shaman should be mainlined, maybe. 20081102 22:54:07 (With the new graphics.) 20081102 22:54:13 esr: One problem. 20081102 22:54:18 Yes? 20081102 22:54:23 It needs a melee frame. 20081102 22:54:28 Otherwise it is awesome. 20081102 22:54:53 Do the graphics I'm using have a melee frame? 20081102 22:55:27 Yes. 20081102 22:55:59 Well... 20081102 22:56:30 Yeah. 20081102 22:57:01 But then again it would look a bit silly for a ranged frame unless the entangle projectile graphics are sliding from the shaman to the victim. 20081102 22:58:00 * loonycyborg wishes Dread Bat from IftU were mainlined 20081102 22:58:17 Me too. 20081102 23:00:08 esr: So... now what? 20081102 23:05:54 Espreon: Who did the sprites for the new Wose Shaman graphics? 20081102 23:06:15 esr: IDK. 20081102 23:06:41 esr: Did you look at them? 20081102 23:07:27 Can you get him to do a melee frame? If so...get that done, ship me the WML and frames, and I'll mainline it. Woses have too few unit types right now, and DM is going to need it. 20081102 23:07:56 (Assuming the Art Director doersn't object to the art, that is.) 20081102 23:08:00 esr: No, I meant I do not know who did it. 20081102 23:08:12 Oh. Foo. 20081102 23:08:15 In addition, what about the Dread Bat. 20081102 23:08:32 -!- ilor [n=a@unaffiliated/ilor] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 23:08:42 OK, here's how yo can help... 20081102 23:08:43 I could have my buddy Quietus do it once he is finished with the Minotaur revamp. 20081102 23:09:10 Is Deard Bat an entire unit type? 20081102 23:09:21 s/Deard/Dread/ 20081102 23:09:24 It is an advancement to the Blood Bat. 20081102 23:09:39 Ahhh. Good idea. 20081102 23:09:55 Fulll sprites? 20081102 23:10:00 Hellz yeah. 20081102 23:10:18 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081102 23:10:38 Oh, good. I'll mainline that, if none of the other senior devs objecys. 20081102 23:10:52 s/objecys/objects/ 20081102 23:11:00 I am sure Jetryl will accept the art... 20081102 23:11:10 It has all of the appropriate frames. 20081102 23:11:32 Who's in charge of MP balance these days? 20081102 23:12:24 * Espreon wonders why the old Ghost images are still in the 1.4 branch. 20081102 23:13:10 Well... as of 1.4.5... I did not check /branches/1.4 HEAD... 20081102 23:13:14 So yeah... 20081102 23:13:28 Soliton, zookeeper: is anyone's applecart going to be upset if we add an L3 Bat? 20081102 23:13:50 It is a LV2 bat actually. 20081102 23:13:57 Vampire Bats are LV0. 20081102 23:14:06 Blood Bats are LV2 20081102 23:14:21 Then I see even less of a potential problem. 20081102 23:14:33 esr: Noyga might know who made the new Wose Shaman graphics. 20081102 23:14:42 Especially since it is his avatar on the forums... 20081102 23:14:56 And I think he is the guy who manages the EE... 20081102 23:18:29 Espreon: Please see if you can track down the Wose Shaman artist. If you can't, havw Quietus do the missing frame. If you hand me the package, I'll take care of getting Jetryl-approval and mainlining it. 20081102 23:20:49 -!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 23:21:21 esr: The current Wose Shaman graphics > the old ones. 20081102 23:21:28 For more reasons than one. 20081102 23:21:35 It even has a nice halo effect. 20081102 23:21:48 I am sure Jetryl will approve once there is a melee frame. 20081102 23:22:16 I believe you. I'm satying track down the *new* artist and try to get him to do the frame, with Quietus as a fallback. 20081102 23:22:20 esr: I think a council of people handle MP balance. 20081102 23:22:23 OK. 20081102 23:22:25 -!- DDR [n=chatzill@209.90.176.88] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 23:22:30 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 23:23:10 Espreon: I'm asking because my only worry about the Dread Bat is that it might change faction balance in MP. 20081102 23:23:34 esr: I really do not think it will destroy the balance. 20081102 23:23:41 But we better ask anyway. 20081102 23:24:00 Espreon: Agreed on both counts. 20081102 23:26:36 -!- Shadow_Master_ [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20081102 23:27:07 svn st 20081102 23:27:12 oops 20081102 23:27:25 -!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@91.108.145.20] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20081102 23:27:27 -!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20081102 23:27:30 -!- Shadow_Master_ is now known as Shadow_Master 20081102 23:29:16 thanks grzywacz for marking that bug as fixed 20081102 23:29:26 Shadow_Master, you're welcome 20081102 23:29:56 * Shadow_Master goes hunt another bug 20081102 23:30:57 mainlining the wose shaman? err...IMO it's a pretty silly unit. not that i know the actual stats though. 20081102 23:31:16 who is mainlining it? There is no campaign that uses it 20081102 23:31:29 (in _mainline_) 20081102 23:31:50 Maybe esr wants DM to be mainlined. 20081102 23:32:03 Espreon: IIRWIIR 20081102 23:32:47 * Espreon seriously does not know the meaning of that acronym. 20081102 23:33:22 shikadibot: IIRWIIR? 20081102 23:33:22 IIRWIIR: It Is Ready When It Is Ready 20081102 23:33:47 I do want DM to be mainlined, but my principal reason is that Woses have few unit types and therefore few tactical options. 20081102 23:34:19 that is, when DM is mainlined, we'll see. For now, enjoy its UMC status 20081102 23:34:26 next I need to read is someone suggesting the Cookie-Eater Monster for mainline 20081102 23:34:27 Fire dragons also have few unit types :) 20081102 23:34:53 Then lets make more! 20081102 23:35:06 Unless there's a specific thematic reason to restrict a race, I like people composing sides to have as many colors in the paintbox as possible. 20081102 23:35:24 Fire Dragons are kind of a special case... 20081102 23:35:49 Woses aren't exactly a faction. 20081102 23:35:58 esr: I know... I was just being silly. 20081102 23:35:58 as for the dreat bat...well, i don't have much of an opinion. i'd go with what the MP devs suggest (although i doubt they'd object, since leveling a bat twice would be a rather rare occurrence in MP). 20081102 23:36:15 * Espreon has a 41 ounce bag of Skittles 20081102 23:36:47 zookeeper: Yeah, I don't think they'll have a problem. 20081102 23:37:29 a wose shaman, fine. i have a problem with the sprite though (since IMO it looks like a dog with horns and lots of moss on it), and i'd really rather have something more creative as its stats. 20081102 23:37:29 -!- Elvish_Pillage2 [n=eli@71-10-234-12.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20081102 23:37:40 weaker melee and ranged slow? boring 20081102 23:38:29 alternatively, you could make its melee attack slow 20081102 23:38:38 maybe remove ambush? 20081102 23:38:44 zookeeper: Maybe the Wose Shamans like to take upon a different form than most Woses. 20081102 23:38:50 ... mainlining it would mean that it would be available in MP Default Era? 20081102 23:39:03 or give it some other unique special/ability 20081102 23:39:14 wait. whaat am I asking... if it advances from the L1 Wose :) 20081102 23:39:22 No, I'd think Wose Shamans would be more stealthy than ordinary Woses, not less. 20081102 23:39:48 Does it have heal? 20081102 23:40:06 reformulating my question: would this mean that it would be availabe as recruit/leader on mainline MP eras? 20081102 23:40:44 heal doesn't fit, as all woses regenerate 20081102 23:40:49 Shadow_Master, yes 20081102 23:40:50 Shadow_Master: I don't know how that's gated. Will that happen by default if I put it in the main tree? 20081102 23:41:12 and i'd consider it rather silly to mainline it but not wire it into the main wose tree 20081102 23:41:36 the availability as recruitment in the Era of Heroes, I meant 20081102 23:41:39 you know, where you usually can recruit Elvish Druids 20081102 23:42:02 esr: Sorry... I dug through the EE's 59 page thread... yet I could not find the name of the artist. 20081102 23:42:07 the recruit/leader lists of MP eras are not tied to how you define unit trees 20081102 23:42:16 I think I will ask noyga. 20081102 23:42:24 Espreon: I think it was Shadow 20081102 23:42:32 (not sure) 20081102 23:42:39 i'm off to bed, bye 20081102 23:42:41 -!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe11fa00-51.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 20081102 23:43:07 Shadow_Master: I believe you since the sprite has the same style as the Aragwaithi and so on. 20081102 23:45:18 -!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.247.118] has quit ["Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"] 20081102 23:45:30 esr: still around? 20081102 23:45:47 Shadow_Master: Yes, what's up? 20081102 23:46:08 what is, more or less, what you have planned for Kalenz' family treE? 20081102 23:46:27 Here's what I think I know: 20081102 23:46:45 1. He is the son of someone named Kliada. 20081102 23:47:03 -!- Rh0nda changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.4.6 released, will announce soon | List 1.6 features here: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Wesnoth1.6Features | 54 bugs, 208 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://wesnoth.org/irclogs | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com, or for images: http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add 20081102 23:47:14 2. He married Cleodil, who later died after bearing him several children. 20081102 23:47:36 3. Chantal from HttT and DM is his granddaughter. 20081102 23:47:40 That's all. 20081102 23:47:48 wot. 20081102 23:47:54 s/wot/woot/ 20081102 23:47:59 ? 20081102 23:48:24 okay, dunno if you have got word of it, but I'm trying to expand some IftU characters back into the past 20081102 23:49:13 Reasonable. (I still need to finish my prose pass on IfTU.) I like the way you used Malin Keshar, BTW. 20081102 23:49:44 ah k. I'll pastebin what I'm talking about 20081102 23:49:50 thanks 20081102 23:50:34 * Espreon has a proposal for a new unit. 20081102 23:51:10 esr: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/d4c4c36fe 20081102 23:51:33 -!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@moinmoin/developer/karol] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20081102 23:51:48 I haven't proof-read it, but if it sounds like I was drunk, it was just me writing at 4 am 20081102 23:52:48 Who proofreads anything? 20081102 23:53:17 shikadibot 20081102 23:53:39 And English teachers. 20081102 23:54:08 right. shikadibot is one. It is so strict that it will refuse to parse broken sentences. 20081102 23:54:16 Interesting... 20081102 23:55:30 Does anyone wanna hear my unit proposal? 20081102 23:57:03 Ivanovic: so, do you want me to commit my optipng run on /trunk/data/campaigns when it's finished or should I hold off on that? 20081102 23:57:30 AI0867: revert anything 20081102 23:57:38 I'll revert the advdef patch shortly 20081102 23:57:49 Shadow_Master: Cool storyline, but I don't like that it starts in 750; that's much too soon. Push it nback to like, 950 and I'll be happy. 20081102 23:58:17 well, I'm based on the invasion stated on wiki/History_of_Wesnoth 20081102 23:58:35 Checking... 20081102 23:58:47 Wesnothian Skittles... taste the crossbow... 20081102 23:59:38 -!- You're now known as lobby --- Log closed Mon Nov 03 00:00:13 2008