--- Log opened Tue Jan 06 00:00:12 2009
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20090106 01:26:02< AI0867> shikadibot: log 31974
20090106 01:26:05< shikadibot> Revision 31974 (esr, 2009-01-05 19:01:13 +0000 (Mon, 05 Jan 2009)):
20090106 01:26:05< shikadibot> Prevent #undef from being indented.
20090106 01:26:05< shikadibot> Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=31974
20090106 01:26:10< AI0867>  [01:26] [AI0867(+i)] [3:Freenode/#wesnoth-dev(+n)] [Act: 1,2]
20090106 01:26:14< AI0867> ugh
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20090106 01:36:09< Turuk> is it ok to be in love with LordBob? I do love women though, I promise.
20090106 01:38:53< thespaceinvader> I think you could be forgiven
20090106 01:39:09< thespaceinvader> the Shock Trooper is about the best portrait so far IMHO
20090106 01:40:06< Rrenys> naah, royal guard still owns all
20090106 01:40:45< Rrenys> the peasant & spearman look kind of... less mature tho
20090106 01:41:17< Turuk> my favorite thing about his work
20090106 01:41:50< Turuk> is that even arguing over which is better.... his "worst" (not that word like that qualifies) work is better than most of the other portraits
20090106 01:42:20< Rrenys> no??
20090106 01:42:48< Rrenys> name me one kitty's potrait that is worse than his peasant
20090106 01:42:57< Turuk> key word was most
20090106 01:43:06< Rrenys> most are kitty's i believe
20090106 01:43:24< Turuk> kitty's work is very good, as is tsi's and girg's
20090106 01:43:33< Turuk> I am comparing it to all of the portraits he is replacing
20090106 01:43:39 * thespaceinvader blushes
20090106 01:44:05< thespaceinvader> i'd agree, though, that the armoured ones are better-looking than the unarmoured
20090106 01:44:10< thespaceinvader> but not by a lot
20090106 01:44:23< zookeeper> my least favourite is definitely the spearman. it's so...eh, i don't know, ugly or something.
20090106 01:44:30< zookeeper> the peasant i like though
20090106 01:44:32< Rrenys> & theres something about the face & hat of the spearman
20090106 01:44:34< thespaceinvader> and realistically, a badass huge dude in spiked armour will a.lways look better than a wuss with a pitchfork...
20090106 01:44:45< Turuk> agreed
20090106 01:44:52< zookeeper> i think the spearman reminds me of some groovy's portraits, actually ;) maybe that's it
20090106 01:44:56< Rrenys> naah
20090106 01:45:14< Rrenys> id do a better peasant, i could swear, if i knew how inking works
20090106 01:45:53< Turuk> either way, compared to what we have and the way he just dropped in and goes "Hey, I read the needed portrait list, here's what I can do..."
20090106 01:46:00< Turuk> it was like an early Christmas present to Wesnoth
20090106 01:46:10< AI0867> I'm updating lordbob's HI portrait with the new version, anyone oppose?
20090106 01:46:15< thespaceinvader> you can always ask someone else to ink for you, Rrenys
20090106 01:46:38< Rrenys> well
20090106 01:46:45 * thespaceinvader will not stop lugging away at this comics-workflow idea for the portraits
20090106 01:46:51< Rrenys> frankly an explanation would do too
20090106 01:47:01< Rrenys> probably not today tho
20090106 01:47:12< thespaceinvader> what program do you use is the first big question
20090106 01:47:16< Rrenys> gimp
20090106 01:47:18< Rrenys> 2.6.1
20090106 01:47:23< Rrenys> no tablet
20090106 01:47:39< thespaceinvader> ooh, that's a bit of a kicker
20090106 01:48:00< thespaceinvader> very very tough to replicate the current mainline style without, unfortunately
20090106 01:48:03< Rrenys> what, gimp or lack of tablet
20090106 01:48:08< thespaceinvader> lack of tablet
20090106 01:48:12< thespaceinvader> i use GIMP myself
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20090106 01:49:05< Rrenys> i know you do
20090106 01:49:13< thespaceinvader> there are ways and means to translate traditional inking to digital form, but it's not easy
20090106 01:49:52< thespaceinvader> and i don't know that much about it
20090106 01:50:06< CIA-52> ai0867 * r31979 /trunk/data/core/images/portraits/Emilien_Rotival/ (human-heavyinfantry.png transparent/human-heavyinfantry.png): Update LordBob's HI portrait.
20090106 01:51:34< thespaceinvader> anywho, must sleep
20090106 01:51:36< thespaceinvader> night all
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20090106 01:51:39< Rrenys> says someone
20090106 01:51:49< AI0867> shikadibot: log head
20090106 01:51:53< Rrenys> who lives in a timesome west of me...
20090106 01:51:59< shikadibot> Revision 31979 (ai0867, 2009-01-06 00:49:47 +0000 (Tue, 06 Jan 2009)):
20090106 01:51:59< shikadibot> Update LordBob's HI portrait.
20090106 01:51:59< shikadibot> Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=31979
20090106 01:58:01< Turuk> given you are all crazy Wesnoth lovers in here, is there any chance that someone in here has a copy of Elves and Woses on their computer somewhere?
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20090106 02:24:51< Rrenys> lack of response implies shame from being allegedly crazy lover of a game
20090106 02:27:48< Turuk> apparently
20090106 02:27:51< Turuk> worth a shot
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20090106 02:46:45< Sapient> good news, zookeeper; I've decided to make objects removable again
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20090106 03:10:19< Sapient> hmm... it seems that storing modifications isn't even useful anymore
20090106 03:10:37< Sapient> perhaps it would be better to store un-modifications
20090106 03:13:11< Sapient> this has some challenges, though... it might be too big of a change
20090106 03:16:06< Sapient> I think I'll aim for a simple "bug fix" approach for now
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20090106 03:25:38< AI0867> Sapient: wouldn't removing it just mean rebuilding the unit with the [object] removed from [modifications]?
20090106 03:25:56< AI0867> I believe that's how duration=level is handled
20090106 03:26:14< Sapient> AI0867: duration=level is currently not handled at all
20090106 03:26:22< AI0867> oh
20090106 03:26:26< Sapient> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/unit.cpp?r2=31604&rev=31604&r1=31596&dir_pagestart=250
20090106 03:26:27< AI0867> that has been recently broken?
20090106 03:27:00< Sapient> yes, cib made that commit to fix direct modifications from being erased
20090106 03:27:19< Sapient> the fundamental problem is that direct modifications and objects do not play well together
20090106 03:28:14< AI0867> yes, so why not say direct modifications have no guarantees to their permanency?
20090106 03:28:24< Sapient> so all objects should figure out how to undo themselves and store the minimum amount of information needed to undo the object-- into the unit
20090106 03:28:44< Sapient> AI0867: because direct modifications are too important to usermade content
20090106 03:28:56< Sapient> we can't just abandon them
20090106 03:29:24< Sapient> e.g. Wesband
20090106 03:29:40< Sapient> and a lot of stuff zookeeper has written I think
20090106 03:31:01< Sapient> so I'm using a compromise solution for 1.5/1.6
20090106 03:31:21< AI0867> k
20090106 03:31:49< Sapient> that is, if you use objects that do not have duration=forever, then there are no guarantees for direct modification permanency
20090106 03:32:12< Sapient> this allows both unit augmentation strategies
20090106 03:33:08< AI0867> then what if the unit levels? I'd say direct modifications are still lost in that case
20090106 03:33:25< Sapient> right, that is correct
20090106 03:34:18< Sapient> if by level you mean "level up"
20090106 03:34:27< AI0867> yeah
20090106 03:34:28< Sapient> and not "advance to next scenario"
20090106 03:34:58 * Sapient grumbles about unit::level method name
20090106 03:35:12< AI0867> what does it do?
20090106 03:35:29< Sapient> unit::new_level() is called when the next scenario is reached
20090106 03:35:52< Sapient> that really needs to be renamed
20090106 03:36:12< AI0867> agreed
20090106 03:36:28< Sapient> the preferred term is "scenario"
20090106 03:36:29< AI0867> anyone have a nice IDE for that or should I just use sed?
20090106 03:36:40< Sapient> wait until I finish my changes please
20090106 03:36:45< AI0867> k
20090106 03:36:48< Sapient> I am working on unit
20090106 03:37:21< AI0867> I'm still repacking my git clone
20090106 03:52:19< AI0867> Sapient: would you prefer 'next_scenario' or 'new_scenario'?
20090106 03:53:00< Sapient> new I suppose
20090106 03:53:55< Sapient> I'm going to commit my changes as soon as I finish testing here
20090106 03:54:02< Sapient> approx. 20 min
20090106 03:58:43< Sapient> or, heck, I'll just go ahead and commit it
20090106 03:59:27< Sapient> as soon as I update the changelog
20090106 04:02:02< Sapient> AI0867: done
20090106 04:02:03< CIA-52> sapient * r31980 /trunk/ (changelog src/unit.cpp): Fix a bug with temporary objects not being removed at next scenario
20090106 04:06:37< Turuk> quick question for those moderators around
20090106 04:06:54< Turuk> I am looking to post this, but am leery of inciting potential conflict
20090106 04:06:57< Turuk> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/d3391643c
20090106 04:07:03< Turuk> so if anyone could be bothered to scan/peruse it
20090106 04:07:09< Turuk> I'd be much obliged
20090106 04:07:44< Sapient> lol
20090106 04:07:54 * Sapient gives Turuk brownie points
20090106 04:08:01< Turuk> haha
20090106 04:08:02< Turuk> thanks
20090106 04:09:25< Sapient> well, there's really no point in posting that
20090106 04:10:00< Sapient> because now you are "one of us." so you can't defend us as a neutral position anymore ;)
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20090106 04:10:18< Turuk> fair enough, it was more to put up in off-topic to potentially hint to old and new members that this community is a privilege 
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20090106 04:10:22< Turuk> ahh yeah bugger
20090106 04:10:37< Turuk> well, I now have a lovely essay for myself haha
20090106 04:10:47< Sapient> lol
20090106 04:11:07 * Sapient gives Turuk another brownie point
20090106 04:11:34< Turuk> haha thanks again
20090106 04:11:59< Sapient> the main responsibility of a Forum Sith is to patrol the forum so the developers don't have to
20090106 04:12:13< Sapient> we appointed you because we trust your judgement
20090106 04:12:45< Sapient> so... we'll let you know if you are doing something too crazy; otherwise I wouldn't worry
20090106 04:13:17< Sapient> I'll also give you a good rule of thumb for moderating
20090106 04:13:34< Turuk> ah, so my neutrality has been compromised, I understand
20090106 04:13:41< Turuk> ok, sure, I'm always all ears for advice
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20090106 04:14:11< Sapient> 1) stupid stuff is ignored (preferably) or locked
20090106 04:15:03< Sapient> 2) spam or profane stuff is moved to mod forum, censored, or deleted
20090106 04:15:48< Sapient> (although be very sensitive about censorship concerns)
20090106 04:16:23< Turuk> can do on 1 and 2, I spent some time looking at how other Sith dealt with past problems
20090106 04:16:34< Turuk> sensitive as in do not make the players think we are being too controlling?
20090106 04:17:23< Sapient> right, if we are seen as too overbearing in silencing dissent or censoring art then it backfires with lots of junk
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20090106 04:17:53< Sapient> another good strategy for stupid stuff is move it to a lesser forum
20090106 04:18:06< Sapient> with Off Topic being the lowest
20090106 04:18:22< Turuk> fair enough
20090106 04:18:29< Sapient> Strat&Tip as well as Ideas are also useful junk bins
20090106 04:18:48< Sapient> have fun =)
20090106 04:19:07< Turuk> haha thank you
20090106 04:19:28< Turuk> this may be a question seemingly pointed at one member, but he has a unique brand of inciting issues at times
20090106 04:19:41< Turuk> how do you all handle JW? just on a case by case basis mostly?
20090106 04:20:05< Sapient> remember the rules of thumb
20090106 04:20:54< Sapient> unfortunately a lot of recent posts from him fall under "stupid stuff" but are also under the "dissent" category ;)
20090106 04:21:44< Sapient> so ignore and move are your only options
20090106 04:21:56< Turuk> yeah, that is why I ask, he seems to have a unique gift
20090106 04:22:01< Turuk> ok will do, thanks for the advice :)
20090106 04:22:04< Turuk> I am much obliged
20090106 04:23:37< Sapient> no problemo
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20090106 04:31:35< Sapient> cya later, have fun.
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20090106 04:47:18< CIA-52> sapient * r31981 /trunk/src/unit.cpp: fix a problem with "prev_type" storage
20090106 05:20:58< Espreon> ESR_: Here?
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20090106 05:40:34< cib0> hi
20090106 05:40:46< Espreon> Hello.
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20090106 06:36:53< Turuk> if anyone is on to notice, is the first part of his post user-era or an existing bug?
20090106 06:36:54< Turuk> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=330284#p330284
20090106 06:38:25< cib0> the dialog one?
20090106 06:39:22< cib0> i've noticed, in 1.5.7 dialogs will be skipped when old format follows after new, it occurs just anywhere and gets really annoying
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20090106 06:45:27< Turuk> hmm ok, thanks cib0
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20090106 07:12:20< cib0> i love it when i find some missing parts of what the engine is supposed to do and grasp a bit more of how something works in the source
20090106 07:14:00< Turuk> that feeling of discovery is always a good one
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20090106 09:06:18< Soliton> Turuk: http://www.wesnoth.org/files/addons/1.0/unpacked/
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20090106 11:04:49< kitty_> hi ESR_, i just read your froum comment on the arthian portrait. the colours are as dark as in th old version - i could barely see his outline against the black background. i didn't want to touch the original contributor's work too much, but if you want i can brighten him a bit.
20090106 11:08:35< CIA-52> baufo * r31982 /trunk/src/ (multiplayer_ui.cpp multiplayer_ui.hpp): removing redundant variable
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20090106 11:15:44< CIA-52> baufo * r31983 /trunk/src/multiplayer.cpp: removing redundant vector
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20090106 11:39:08< cib0> ESR_ - coder, WMLer, art reviewer?
20090106 11:44:25< CIA-52> baufo * r31984 /branches/1.4/src/ (4 files): backporting r31977 per Soliton's request
20090106 11:50:38< kitty_> thespaceinvader: hello! i just looked over the backgroundless THoT portraits - is there any chance you could mirror them so that they face to the right? (only those where you don't have to add additional bits because of that)
20090106 11:51:12< thespaceinvader> Sure.  A couple of them need to stay the way they are, though, notably Karrag's one.
20090106 11:52:07< thespaceinvader> and the masked dwarf's
20090106 11:52:46< kitty_> yeah, i noticed that, but do it where possible - it will look considerably better ith the new layout. otherwise they look out of the screen...
20090106 11:53:20< thespaceinvader> they could always appear on the right of the dialogue - that facility is available
20090106 11:54:05< kitty_> right! then just let whoever the maintainer is do that! :)
20090106 11:55:14< thespaceinvader> yah
20090106 11:55:19< thespaceinvader> ESR, i think
20090106 11:55:33< thespaceinvader> i'll upload the two fixed ones just now
20090106 11:56:11< kitty_> and you are sure that the right side feature already works and is not only planned?
20090106 11:56:24< thespaceinvader> i hope so...
20090106 11:56:57< thespaceinvader> but if not, then we'll just have to cope with two villains who look a bit more sneaky than usual...
20090106 11:57:15< thespaceinvader> done
20090106 11:57:38< thespaceinvader> once i have committing sorted, do you happen to know where these need to be uploaded?
20090106 11:58:18< thespaceinvader> and i really wish i had time now to revamp these >.<
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20090106 12:00:40< kitty_> you just replace the old ones... http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/images/portraits/
20090106 12:04:30< thespaceinvader> okie doke
20090106 12:04:42< thespaceinvader> wasn't sure whether these were going into resources or not
20090106 12:05:16< kitty_> good luck!
20090106 12:06:31< thespaceinvader> cheers =)
20090106 12:06:58< thespaceinvader> i still have a little waiting to do - i figured out that i'd made the wrong sort of ssh key (or somesuch) so i uploaded a new one this morning
20090106 12:07:07< thespaceinvader> here's hoping it all works once i get back from shopping
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20090106 12:33:57< cib0> is it only me or is the server client interaction code for creating multiplayer games very unexpressive?
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20090106 13:16:45< CIA-52> zookeeper * r31985 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/images/portraits/ (7 files): Flipped some TRoW portraits horizontally.
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20090106 13:35:14< Turuk> Soliton, thanks for the link, that was exactly what I needed
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20090106 13:42:03< Soliton> no problem. i just moved the files there when you asked. ;-)
20090106 13:43:24< Turuk> ah haha, then I am extra grateful
20090106 13:50:26< ESR_> kitty: try brightening him a bit, please; he's basically invisible now.
20090106 14:06:57-!- cib0 [n=cib@p4FD0FF1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090106 14:08:59< zookeeper> err, would anyone know of a free windows desktop manager which would allow me to actually have a different set of desktop shortcut icons on the different desktops? i've tried like three so far, and bloody none of them allow me to do that.
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20090106 14:15:48< kitty_> ESR_ done and uploaded to the thread
20090106 14:15:59< ESR_> Thanks.
20090106 14:20:37< ESR_> kitty: strange, nothing that looks right is showing in my thread view.  Can you give me a text string to search for to find the messages?
20090106 14:22:27< kitty_> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/download/file.php?id=26698&mode=view
20090106 14:24:50< thespaceinvader> kitty_ have you any priorities on stuff which needs committing?
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20090106 14:25:01< thespaceinvader> cos i should be good to go in a little while
20090106 14:25:19< thespaceinvader> just waiting for my checkout to download... well, everything in the SVN
20090106 14:25:36< kitty_> thespaceinvader: uhm no - if you put your tHoT stuff in would be fine
20090106 14:25:43< thespaceinvader> yep sure
20090106 14:25:50< thespaceinvader> i'll also fix up and commit the saurians
20090106 14:26:16< thespaceinvader> you wanted Inarix's portrait from SotBE to go in as mainline skirmisher, and the skirmisher one i just did as inarix, right?
20090106 14:26:55< kitty_> ah, good idea. they were missed in the last release. and yes, pease swap enarix and the skirmisher. and mirror them...
20090106 14:28:06< kitty_> *inarix
20090106 14:28:45< thespaceinvader> surely
20090106 14:28:55< kitty_> :)
20090106 14:29:47< CIA-53> esr * r31986 /trunk/data/campaigns/Northern_Rebirth/images/portraits/Arthian.png: A slightly more visible Arthian.
20090106 14:34:27< zookeeper> thespaceinvader, i've been intending on doing that, but i think i didn't yet because i was missing some transparent version, i think. or something.
20090106 14:34:42< thespaceinvader> okie doke
20090106 14:34:51< Turuk> cib0, is there a more detailed statistics site than http://www.wesnoth.org/cgi-bin/stats/stats.pl?
20090106 14:35:10< thespaceinvader> zookeeper: well, i have those, so as soon as the checkout's done, i'll make my first tentative forays into committing
20090106 14:35:21< cib0> Turuk: i dont think so
20090106 14:35:31< Turuk> hmm ok
20090106 14:35:34< cib0> i wasn't sure how detailed it was
20090106 14:35:48< Turuk> I do remember them covering all the info you mentioned and so I felt sort of like a dolt
20090106 14:36:02< Turuk> but I cannot find all of that old information, this just covers gold numbers and how far people reach
20090106 14:36:36< cib0> hm.. well, i have no idea, if you remember there being more info it might atleast be stored somewhere
20090106 14:37:20< Turuk> I'll go putz around, though if it's actually stored off site I will be incapable of finding it
20090106 14:40:20< kitty_> thespaceinvader: and if you are searching for some more commit work - all of the SotBE portraits haven't been replaced yet, too.
20090106 14:40:29< thespaceinvader> yep, will do
20090106 14:40:50< kitty_> thespaceinvader: and i still search for somebody commiting my troll whelp...
20090106 14:41:08< cib0> Sirp should know about it in any case, i think he is managing that stuff
20090106 14:42:12< thespaceinvader> kitty_ lol, i'll get to it =)
20090106 14:42:38< Turuk> ok, thanks cib0.  Sirp, are you around?
20090106 14:42:45< kitty_> thespaceinvader: he thanks - seems like you volunteered for quite a bit of work ;)
20090106 14:43:03< thespaceinvader> shouldn't take long
20090106 14:43:05< thespaceinvader> hopefully...
20090106 14:43:59< kitty_> and did you know that for generic mainline portraits you should commit a small black bg and a big transparent version?
20090106 14:46:23< thespaceinvader> ...i do now...
20090106 14:46:31< cib0> Turuk: he is around the American timezones i think so he is more likely to be online some time later
20090106 14:46:48< thespaceinvader> i'll take a look at the svn to work out what to do with them
20090106 14:46:57< Turuk> woohoo, finally someone who relates to a timezone like mine.  thanks for that
20090106 14:54:20< ESR_> Thanks, kitty.  Looks good.
20090106 14:55:06< ESR_> thespaceinvader: Are you done tweaking the THot portraits?
20090106 14:55:27< thespaceinvader> ESR_ for now, yeah, i am
20090106 14:56:19< ESR_> Would you please put them in a single zip somewhere so I'll know I have all the right versions?  I want to commit them.
20090106 15:03:05< CIA-53> baufo * r31987 /trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs): added a graphical front end to various mp commands, replacing the whisper dialog
20090106 15:13:50< thespaceinvader> sure
20090106 15:19:46< cib0> o.o funny how such nice and interesting features fly by without another word
20090106 15:21:54< thespaceinvader> ESR_: check the last post of the background removals thread
20090106 15:22:49< cib0> would embedded formatting characters cause any problems with translation?
20090106 15:27:59< zookeeper> i don't see why they would. translators can't be completely clueless anyway, so i don't see why they wouldn't be able to understand some [b]simple[/b] syntax like that.
20090106 15:30:04< ESR_> thespaceinvader: Will do.
20090106 15:32:08< cib0> hm, [b]simple[/b] syntax.. i would never expect wesnoth to use something like that :p
20090106 15:32:35< CIA-53> baufo * r31988 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/ (mp_cmd_wrapper.cpp mp_cmd_wrapper.hpp): setting svn properties
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20090106 15:35:19< zookeeper> cib0, well, what then?
20090106 15:36:51< cib0> i actually think it would be nice and good
20090106 15:37:54< cib0> im just too used to wesnoth going its own way and using stuff like ~ and * for formatting
20090106 15:39:28< zookeeper> well i don't see how those could work.
20090106 15:40:08< cib0> well, ~simple~? :p
20090106 15:40:36< zookeeper> meh.
20090106 15:40:42< cib0> of course you would have to escape any other usages of them then
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20090106 15:41:41< cib0> personally, i would much rather use [b] anyway, even for formatting the whole message
20090106 15:42:40< Rrenys> you mean, without end tag?
20090106 15:43:40< cib0> with end tag because it looks cooler, but i don't see a problem with allowing one to leave it out, either
20090106 15:50:32< cib0> hm, is wesnothd a mailserver at the same time?
20090106 15:55:49< Shadow_Master> hi
20090106 15:56:36< cib0> yo Shadow_Master
20090106 15:58:36< AI0867> ESR_: running wmlindent on the Brotherhood of Light (as found in wesnoth-umc-dev under /trunk) indents some multiline strings
20090106 15:59:03< ESR_> What file?
20090106 15:59:28< AI0867> the 12k+ line one
20090106 15:59:47< ESR_> No, I need the pathname.
20090106 16:00:15< AI0867> looking..
20090106 16:00:24< AI0867> _main.cfg
20090106 16:00:25< Shadow_Master> examining the diff after a wmlindent run shouldn't be too hard though..
20090106 16:01:42< ESR_> OK, I'll look into it.
20090106 16:08:38-!- kitty_ [n=kitty@e180192009.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit []
20090106 16:11:07< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: pling?
20090106 16:19:31< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: AFAIK we use the gd library for graphics work on the webpages, including the forum. There are some things that seem to be either native breakage of the library, of badly tuned parameters
20090106 16:19:52< Shadow_Master> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=317640#p317640  is a good example of how different the scaled down version of a graphic may look against the original
20090106 16:20:21< Shadow_Master> and this wouldn't happen with the GIMP, for instance. Even with no interpolation algorithm
20090106 16:20:44< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: this is a complain that I held in queue for too long "hoping" that cycholka would be back.
20090106 16:22:10< Shadow_Master> I don't know further details of how gd or php works so I don't know what may need to be done there
20090106 16:29:04< Shadow_Master> wesbot: seen boucman
20090106 16:29:04< wesbot> Shadow_Master: The person with the nick boucman last spoke 16h 52m ago.  16h 52m ago they left with the message: Remote closed the connection
20090106 16:29:06< CIA-53> ai0867 * r31989 /trunk/src/ (playsingle_controller.cpp unit.cpp unit.hpp): Rename unit::new_level() to unit::new_scenario()
20090106 16:29:50< Shadow_Master> I get the impression that the animations engine is trying to update units offscreen...
20090106 16:31:17< thespaceinvader> ESR_: done
20090106 16:31:39< Shadow_Master> thespaceinvader: does your commit access work now? :)
20090106 16:32:08< thespaceinvader> haven't tested it yet
20090106 16:32:19< thespaceinvader> i'm still downloading a full checkout of the SVN
20090106 16:32:45< thespaceinvader> but i'm assuming it will, since i'm doing said download using my gna! username and ssh key etc
20090106 16:33:50< ESR_> thespaceinvader: Thanks, I'll commit now.
20090106 16:34:00< thespaceinvader> cool cool =)
20090106 16:35:42< Shadow_Master> thespaceinvader: it took them more than 1 week to accept my SSH key
20090106 16:35:52< thespaceinvader> ouch
20090106 16:35:54< Shadow_Master> but that was an exceptional case of laziness from their operators
20090106 16:35:57< Shadow_Master> (I hope...)
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20090106 16:36:08< CIA-53> esr * r31990 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/images/portraits/ (13 files): Transparentized portraits for THoT.
20090106 16:36:18< thespaceinvader> i thought it was taking ages when i got up this am, but it turned out i'd had puttygen make the wrong sort of key
20090106 16:36:20< thespaceinvader> or something
20090106 16:36:25< Shadow_Master> yes, the service we use is crappy like hell, and it is something that really upsets me
20090106 16:36:35< ivan_i> Hi all
20090106 16:36:46< Shadow_Master> SF.net has never gave me big problems (well, but it did cause problems to AI0867 )
20090106 16:36:50< Shadow_Master> *give
20090106 16:36:53< Shadow_Master> n
20090106 16:36:57< Shadow_Master> hi Ivanovic 
20090106 16:37:04< Shadow_Master> er, Ivanovic 
20090106 16:37:16< Shadow_Master> I need more coffee
20090106 16:37:25< ivan_i> :) I am not Ivanovich, just Ivan
20090106 16:37:41< Shadow_Master> that's called tab completion dude
20090106 16:38:30 * loonycyborg wonders why he's called Ivanovic while being German :)
20090106 16:39:43< Shadow_Master> does it have a clear origin?
20090106 16:40:42< ivan_i> In Russian my son would be Ivanovich and my daughter is Ivanovna
20090106 16:41:56< loonycyborg> Ivanovic looks like some very widespread russian middle-name.
20090106 16:43:32< loonycyborg> Ivanovich is patronymic derived from Ivan
20090106 16:43:46< loonycyborg> (Wikipedia rocks :) )
20090106 16:45:18< ivan_i> Patronymics are usually dropped nowadays, but in official situations they are still used, I, for one can be called Ivan Nikolayevich
20090106 16:45:52< Shadow_Master> fortunately they aren't used in spanish
20090106 16:47:52< Shadow_Master> or at least not in latin-america.
20090106 17:00:23< cib0> uhm, am i overlooking something or does game_state::load_recall_list() do alot more than it is described to?
20090106 17:01:52< Shadow_Master> as I said in my email... ;)
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20090106 17:23:35< Shadow_Master> zookeeper: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?12819  should be marked as invalid, right?
20090106 17:28:14< Shadow_Master> cib0: um  couldn't you just pling me?
20090106 17:29:32< cib0> Shadow_Master: about what?
20090106 17:30:14< Shadow_Master> about what you posted directed to me in the Ideas subforum regarding replays
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20090106 17:31:10< cib0> well, i could, but i thought the answer might be interesting for the thread creator, too?
20090106 17:32:43< cib0> or just anyone to stumble upon that thread.. i don't find its purpose very obvious
20090106 17:33:30< Shadow_Master> rrrreplied
20090106 17:33:57< Shadow_Master> (extra R's not on purpose)
20090106 17:38:00< cib0> what exactly do those messages even say? that someone logged into the server or that someone logged into the game?
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20090106 17:38:39< Shadow_Master> lobby == server I think
20090106 17:38:42< zookeeper> Shadow_Master, yeah, looks invalid to me
20090106 17:40:01< Shadow_Master> done
20090106 17:40:07< cib0> what does people logging into the server have to do with the game itself? isn't that rather the job of a server log than a savegame?
20090106 17:40:31< Shadow_Master> good question
20090106 17:41:43< Shadow_Master> still you can count me as a person who likes to receive that info
20090106 17:42:56< cib0> oh well, hopefully we'll get some more feedback on that
20090106 17:43:13< cib0> away
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20090106 17:47:50< Shadow_Master> thespaceinvader: TBH your work on THoT pales in comparison to what you have done for SotBE, but that is of course explained by the fact you made them before Kitty appeared for the first time
20090106 17:48:08< Shadow_Master> it'd be nice to see them remade at some point (I particularly like Hamel's portrait in there)
20090106 17:48:09< thespaceinvader> 9
20090106 17:48:13< Shadow_Master> 9?
20090106 17:48:14< thespaceinvader> oop typo
20090106 17:48:31< thespaceinvader> must nbot type with tablet balanced on laptop
20090106 17:48:43< thespaceinvader> and i do plan on redoing them... sometime
20090106 17:49:17< thespaceinvader> i'd keep the majority of the basic sketches and shapes, and probably the black lines and heavy shading style, but update the godawful faces, anatomy and shading
20090106 17:49:38< Shadow_Master> yup
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20090106 17:51:49< Shadow_Master> hail goddess
20090106 17:52:00< thespaceinvader> evening kitty
20090106 17:52:17< Kitty1> hi
20090106 17:54:55< Kitty1> since i got no answer from west concerning the bg removal from the two brothers portraits he did - does anybody know if there are bigger versions of those portraits anywhere?
20090106 17:55:29< Shadow_Master> I guess he has them
20090106 17:55:46< Kitty1> but he doesn't answer to my pm...
20090106 17:56:18< Shadow_Master> he is a busy person ;)
20090106 17:56:57< Kitty1> you would recommend waiting and not doing the little ones myself?
20090106 17:56:58< Rrenys> he had his drawings on his website too iirc, maybe they are with larger res there
20090106 17:57:34< Rrenys> http://www.scriptorium.se/west/i/arne-final.png
20090106 17:57:34< Shadow_Master> Kitty1: I'd ask that question to Ivanovic  since it's his campaign
20090106 17:57:43< Shadow_Master> unless "
20090106 17:57:58< Kitty1> woha that's really big! 
20090106 17:58:01< Kitty1> :)
20090106 17:58:41< Shadow_Master> I read that it's very cold in Germany?
20090106 17:58:52< Kitty1> but it's only arne - din't he do an unshaded bjarn, too?
20090106 17:58:58< Shadow_Master> heard, actually. mom has the TV turned on.
20090106 17:59:02< Shadow_Master> Kitty1: no
20090106 17:59:14< Shadow_Master> Kitty1: bjarn is szopen's work
20090106 17:59:15< CIA-53> baufo * r31991 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fixing indentation to tabs in various places
20090106 17:59:54< Shadow_Master> eeek, Baufo was that really necessary?
20090106 18:00:15< Baufo> Shadow_Master, no
20090106 18:00:32< Kitty1> Shadow_Master: thanks - i never encountered that szopen guy
20090106 18:00:59< Shadow_Master> Kitty1: he's an ancient UMC maker and apparently an artwork proxy
20090106 18:01:00< Baufo> Shadow_Master, but Codeblocks annoys me not remembering my settings and I don't want to let it win
20090106 18:01:12< Shadow_Master> e.g. he seems to have provided artwork made by other person behind him
20090106 18:01:37< Kitty1> person behin him? he stole it?
20090106 18:01:44< Shadow_Master> Kitty1: no
20090106 18:02:10< Shadow_Master> otherwise nobody would have used it in the first place. we have a very strict policy
20090106 18:02:15< Kitty1> whatever, i'll just remove the background and ask no questions...
20090106 18:04:28< Shadow_Master> Kitty1: let me check
20090106 18:05:59< Shadow_Master> Kitty1: I'll search for the source of the portrait
20090106 18:06:59< Kitty1> Shadow_Master: don't worry, it's not that important. i just wondered what "person behind him" meant
20090106 18:08:04< Shadow_Master> I cannot leave you with the doubt :)
20090106 18:08:53< Shadow_Master> I may be mistaken: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=86301#p86301  This is what szopen said when publishing A New Order (UMC) for the first time
20090106 18:09:39< Rrenys> You can rest assures that it doesnt look professional enough that its owner would possibly ever want royalties
20090106 18:09:40< Shadow_Master> I don't know if the portraits used nowadays on ANO are of the same source, but they certainly have the same style as the portraits in A Tale of Two Brothers (until West replaced the Arne portraits)
20090106 18:09:44< Rrenys> d*
20090106 18:10:02< Shadow_Master> however it oculd be well that szopen learned to make them himself
20090106 18:10:30< Shadow_Master> and here is west's attempt at  bjarn:
20090106 18:10:31< Shadow_Master> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=195787#p195787
20090106 18:11:02< Kitty1> a pitty that west never finished that...
20090106 18:11:09< Shadow_Master> (it doesn't look bad; remove the beard, give him breasts and voila, a female mage portrait)
20090106 18:11:48< Shadow_Master> Kitty1: if he did, we might not have been blessed by his music
20090106 18:12:20< Shadow_Master> (there are some attachments broken in that thread; possible result of the multiple server migrations and crashes)
20090106 18:12:27< Kitty1> right, his music is better! i don't want to miss it!
20090106 18:12:49< Shadow_Master> :)
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20090106 18:16:32< Shadow_Master> oh no.
20090106 18:16:42< Shadow_Master> the KGB made it here. CIA is no more.
20090106 18:17:25< Baufo> heh
20090106 18:17:47< Baufo> apparently they also took down http://cia.vc/
20090106 18:20:56< Kitty1> zookeeper: Two Brothers Portraits are done and added to the forum thread and doofus did the missing southguard ones, they should be ok, too http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23553
20090106 18:21:50< Shadow_Master> Baufo: apparently it was killing their CPU
20090106 18:22:40< Shadow_Master> (was reading #cia 's backlog)
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20090106 18:44:32< zookeeper> Kitty1, you sure you want arne to be cropped like that :o?
20090106 18:45:19< Kitty1> zookeeper: i'm not sure - but that's what the arrtists created it like....
20090106 18:45:30< zookeeper> Kitty1, btw, i've always felt like arne's lower hand is somehow screwed up, in a wrong angle or something, but i find it a bit hard to figure out what it is exactly (and no one seemed to have agreed with me). what do you think?
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20090106 18:47:03< Kitty1> zookeeper: i think it's on the small side compared to the other and needs more flesh at the inside (but i don't intend to redraw it right now :P)
20090106 18:47:33< Kitty1> but i'll upload a recropped one in a minute, ok?
20090106 18:48:17< zookeeper> hmm, ok
20090106 18:49:10< Kitty1> done
20090106 18:52:02< zookeeper> committed both those and the remaining TSG ones
20090106 18:52:03< CIA-53> zookeeper * r31993 /trunk/data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/images/ (arne.png bjarn.png): Transparent portraits for TB.
20090106 18:52:11< zookeeper> oh, cia started working.
20090106 18:54:25< Kitty1> thanks :)
20090106 18:55:03< zookeeper> for UtBS i'm waiting until jetryl finishes eloh and grog
20090106 18:55:33< Kitty1> ok, those are the most tricky ones...
20090106 18:56:20< zookeeper> thespaceinvader, so were you going to commit the transparent SotBE portraits?
20090106 18:56:31< thespaceinvader> will do, eventually
20090106 18:56:48< thespaceinvader> i'm still waiting for my checkout to finish
20090106 18:56:50< thespaceinvader> slow process
20090106 18:56:53< thespaceinvader> apparently
20090106 18:56:57< zookeeper> i was just thinking that someone with more svn expertise could do it in a cleaner manner, by moving the ones from the resources branch
20090106 18:57:09< zookeeper> since the images already exist there
20090106 18:57:11< thespaceinvader> sure, you're welcome to do that
20090106 18:57:11< ESR_> Kitty1: This talk of wrong angles reminds me...I think there's something slighly off about the angle of Anita's head and neck in NR.  Did you notice any such thing?
20090106 18:57:19< zookeeper> (except for the one that'll replace inarix)
20090106 18:57:21< thespaceinvader> a couple off them could probably do with flipping though
20090106 18:57:37< thespaceinvader> specifically, the two kapou'e ones, flar'tar and lan'bech
20090106 18:57:43< zookeeper> yeah
20090106 18:57:55< ESR_> Is everything supposed to face rightwards now?
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20090106 18:58:16< Kitty1> ESR_: yeah, it's too lang and stiff (but i won't fix it ;) )
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20090106 18:59:14< ESR_> Kitty1: I guess that goes at the top of the queue for whenever those get redone, then.
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20090106 19:00:02< Kitty1> ESR_: no single portraits get on top of the queue - but the whole campaigns should be pretty high on the list!
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20090106 19:00:28< zookeeper> btw, i played through UtBS during the last week or so, and didn't encounter much notable problems (or at least ones that i didn't fix).
20090106 19:00:38< zookeeper> _except_ those kaleh's AMLAs.
20090106 19:00:40< ESR_> zookeeper: Good.
20090106 19:01:21< zookeeper> frankly the AMLA code is such a mess that i didn't even try to actually start fixing them. and i'm not perfectly sure how to go about removing the broken ones either.
20090106 19:01:58< ESR_> I know how to remove them.  Which ones are broken?
20090106 19:02:12< zookeeper> both the resistance upgrades and the stun attack seemed to do nothing.
20090106 19:02:26< ESR_> Checking.
20090106 19:02:44< zookeeper> i'm not completely sure about the resistance upgrades, at least the other one's description was misleading so maybe i just checked wrong.
20090106 19:03:41< zookeeper> anyway, if those are all removed then there's really not much left. then it's basically just the usual hero-or-captain decision with the only specialty being the ability to take the bolas (which any sane person would, IMO).
20090106 19:04:02< zookeeper> so the whole big AMLA thing becomes half pointless.
20090106 19:05:30-!- shikadibot_ [n=sh314001@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/bot/shikadibot] has quit ["Umpf."]
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20090106 19:07:49< JonW> hi is it possible to upgrade using xdelta or do I have to download the whole package?
20090106 19:07:51< JonW> I have 1.5.6 to goto 1.5.7!
20090106 19:08:18< Soliton> well, if there is an xdelta you can use it...
20090106 19:08:18< Shadow_Master> you can upgrade the source tarball with xdelta, yes
20090106 19:08:36< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: always publishes xdeltas for the source
20090106 19:09:19< Shadow_Master> shikadibot join #wesnoth-umc-dev
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20090106 19:09:38< JonW> So I would then have to compile?? I used the win binary orginally xdelta won't then update it?
20090106 19:09:51< Shadow_Master> no.
20090106 19:10:13< Shadow_Master> it's difficult to impossible to provide differences for compiled programs, and the Windows installer is one of those
20090106 19:10:24< Soliton> is the an xdelta for the win binary?
20090106 19:10:28< Soliton> there*
20090106 19:10:35< Shadow_Master> no.
20090106 19:10:41< JonW> ok then downloading full thing then....
20090106 19:11:23< Soliton> you could ask loonycyborg to provide xdeltas but it might not make much sense.
20090106 19:11:48< JonW> oh its not too bad soucre force is fast only going to take 20mins!
20090106 19:12:08< Shadow_Master> surely a installer xdelta would be close to as big as the download package
20090106 19:12:37< Shadow_Master> ... erm, nvm.
20090106 19:13:01< JonW> I just thought it might be nice as it smeems to be a 'patch' only 35mb instead 180+
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20090106 19:13:30< Soliton> thinking doesn't get things done though. :-)
20090106 19:13:42< JonW> lol I know!
20090106 19:13:55< JonW> ;)
20090106 19:14:17< Shadow_Master> there've been attempts at creating "upgrade" packages for windows but those have been made by users and it seems that they didn't make it too far
20090106 19:14:48< busfahrer> qjkt
20090106 19:14:52< busfahrer> Err
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20090106 19:17:46< JonW> the main problem is probably the incompatibility between the versions (on saves) 
20090106 19:18:18< Shadow_Master> 1.5.6 are fairly compatible AFACT
20090106 19:18:22< ESR_> zookeeper: I think I may just have fixed the resistance AMLA.  Its ID was wrong; it had a coolision with susyenance.
20090106 19:18:23< Shadow_Master> * 1.5.6 and 1.5.7
20090106 19:19:26< ESR_> Not sure what's going on with stun yet.
20090106 19:19:54< JonW> oh well unistalled 1.5.6 just waiting for 1.5.7 to finish downloading....
20090106 19:20:18-!- Kitty1 [n=kitty@e180192071.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit []
20090106 19:20:23< JonW> I am a neeb so I thought I would make a small sujestion
20090106 19:20:46< CIA-53> esr * r31994 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/Kaleh.cfg: Possible fix for Kaleh's armor AMLA.
20090106 19:20:49< JonW> I aplougise if this has been made before...
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20090106 19:23:10< Sirp> hi
20090106 19:24:57< JonW> In my Humble onion it would be better if the campaigns where listed in a slightly different order HttT was not the first one that you get or if at the end of the training sn to try one of the latter ones!
20090106 19:26:20< Soliton> sometimes it's better to use abbreviations. :-P
20090106 19:26:40< JonW> as I have just completed aToTB and EI on easy with out any problems but had huge problems with HttT!
20090106 19:27:05< JonW> I would if I knew them!
20090106 19:27:09< Soliton> HttT is the canonical campaign but indeed not necessarily the easiest.
20090106 19:27:10< JonW> :p
20090106 19:27:48< Soliton> the idea is that it's the best campaign to show off the game.
20090106 19:28:08< JonW> that is y I think ToTB should be 1st it is short only 4sn long and good for learning!!
20090106 19:28:12< Soliton> TB might be easier but it doesn't show much.
20090106 19:28:24< JonW> Oh I see ...
20090106 19:28:40< Turuk> Sirp, is there another statistics information page, or has there always just been the current one? I feel as if I remember something different in the past...
20090106 19:28:58< Soliton> the page changed.
20090106 19:29:07< Soliton> there is still old-stats.w.o, i think.
20090106 19:29:17< JonW> u mean I might not have gotten hooked if I had started off with ToTB :)
20090106 19:29:24< Shadow_Master> JonW: HttT is at the start for being the first campaign ever made for Wesnoth
20090106 19:29:37< Shadow_Master> after 1.2 and before 1.4 it spent a time at a lower rank
20090106 19:30:04< Soliton> well, looks like the old page is gone actually.
20090106 19:30:05< zookeeper> i'd never recommend TB for anyone's first campaign because it's a much much worse first impression than most other campaigns.
20090106 19:30:06< Turuk> hmm, ok, thanks Soliton
20090106 19:31:03< Shadow_Master> zookeeper: I find it rather poloished now adays
20090106 19:31:07< Shadow_Master> *polished nowadays
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20090106 19:31:31< Soliton> Turuk: http://ozlabs.org/~rusty/stats.wesnoth.org/query-wesnoth.cgi
20090106 19:31:59< Turuk> ah, so empty
20090106 19:32:04< Turuk> thanks though Soliton
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20090106 19:36:43< Sirp> Turuk: there was a different statistics page but it doesn't work very well, hence my developing a new one.
20090106 19:37:17< Turuk> I figured it was something like that, thanks Sirp.  I was just asking due to the curiosity raised on the forum
20090106 19:37:29 * Turuk goes to assuage forum members burning curiosity.
20090106 19:38:52< Shadow_Master> zookeeper: to the point I'd rather play it instead of HttT
20090106 19:39:17< Shadow_Master> but that might be because elves annoy me nowadays for some reason.
20090106 19:39:25< Shadow_Master> (kill pointy ears! kill!)
20090106 19:39:45< JonW> yay 1.5.7 downloaded and installed now lets have a go at the SG Camp! any advise other than don't kill or my good units which I think I may have finialy learnt kill the poor ones!!!
20090106 19:40:24< Shadow_Master> riiight.
20090106 19:41:06< JonW> I take Shadow_Master likes Eastern Invasion even less.....
20090106 19:41:10< JonW> :D
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20090106 19:42:21< Shadow_Master> uh? I cannot hear you. I am busy listening to how awesome I am...
20090106 19:42:27< Shadow_Master> (as if)
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20090106 19:43:58< Sirp> Turuk: what curiosity raised where on the forum?
20090106 19:44:49< Turuk> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=23571
20090106 19:45:31< Turuk> nothing major at all, but it became a matter of statistics which then branched into http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23573
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20090106 19:54:41< CIA-53> shadowmaster * r31995 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/10_Speaking_with_the_Fishes.cfg: 
20090106 19:54:41< CIA-53> Replace the_dangerous_symphony.ogg with revelation.ogg , since the
20090106 19:54:41< CIA-53> earlier isn't really suitable for a speech-only scenario.
20090106 19:55:00< Shadow_Master> anyone have a better idea for 31995?
20090106 19:55:29-!- Dragonking [n=dk@dedikerad/dragonking] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090106 19:58:09< zookeeper> Shadow_Master, you really would? you're weird.
20090106 19:58:35< Shadow_Master> um.
20090106 19:59:00< zookeeper> yeah, i suggest not changing the music abruptly there at all. without proper fading it'll be really cheesy.
20090106 20:00:08< zookeeper> a playlist is fine, but changing music suddenly tends to be very cheesy if it's a dramatic piece being switched to (frantic or vengeful for instance). maybe not such a problem revelation though.
20090106 20:00:31< Shadow_Master> do as you will. I am unhappy with traveling minstrels at the beginning, that's all
20090106 20:00:42< Shadow_Master> (and shouldn't have mentioned it to espreon in the first place..)
20090106 20:03:01< zookeeper> meh, i don't think i'll bother
20090106 20:05:21< Sirp> hi Dragonking 
20090106 20:05:35< Dragonking> hi Sirp, everyone
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20090106 20:07:58< boucman> hey all
20090106 20:08:03< boucman> Shadow_Master: looking for me ?
20090106 20:08:04< Dragonking> hi boucman 
20090106 20:08:36< Shadow_Master> boucman: yes
20090106 20:09:01< Shadow_Master> boucman: I get the impression that the animation engine tries to update stuff off-screen. Whenever I have many non-viisble units on the map, the rendering turns very slow
20090106 20:09:54< boucman> what is "non visible"
20090106 20:09:58< boucman> under fog ?
20090106 20:10:44< Shadow_Master> off-screen
20090106 20:11:01< Shadow_Master> the scenarios on which it turns really sluggish precisely don't have any fog or shroud
20090106 20:11:09< Shadow_Master> and aren't mainline 8)
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20090106 20:11:29< boucman> Shadow_Master: yeah, we do all calculation for all units
20090106 20:11:42< boucman> we need to do them in order to know that they are off screen :)
20090106 20:12:01< Shadow_Master> boucman: foo
20090106 20:12:24< Shadow_Master> dat not good. big calculations confuse shadow.
20090106 20:12:33< boucman> Shadow_Master: hard to avoid
20090106 20:12:42< Shadow_Master> can't you just check their X,Y coordinates?
20090106 20:12:48< boucman> knowing what unit is affecting what hex is pretty complicated
20090106 20:13:13< Shadow_Master> otherwise, what calculations are those? and AFAIK units can only affect each other (as far as animations are concerned) by standing one next to the other?
20090106 20:13:13< boucman> nope, we also need to check their size, if htey affect the neighbouring hex (recursively) and that for all their sub-frames
20090106 20:13:27< Shadow_Master> recursively? and what if the neighbour hexes are empty?
20090106 20:13:37< boucman> Shadow_Master: a unit can cover multiple hexes in many directions
20090106 20:13:48< boucman> Shadow_Master: that stops recursivity
20090106 20:14:01< boucman> trust me invalidating/drawing anims is waaay more complicated than it seems
20090106 20:14:13< Shadow_Master> uh, ccan't it be optimized somehow?
20090106 20:14:21< Shadow_Master> (na d yes, I've seen the code. Not understood it)
20090106 20:14:57< boucman> Shadow_Master: I'll have a look into it, but no promises
20090106 20:15:14< Shadow_Master> would be nice to... you know, have a faster 1.6 engine?
20090106 20:15:31< Shadow_Master> but I know I am basically asking for the impossible with software rendering
20090106 20:17:47< boucman> Shadow_Master: it would be nice if you could create a bug, assign to me and attach a savegame with the problem...
20090106 20:19:06< Shadow_Master> boucman: trhe add-on is too big. you won't like it
20090106 20:19:20< boucman> mkay
20090106 20:19:24< boucman> open th bug anyway...
20090106 20:19:39-!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has quit [Success]
20090106 20:19:53< Shadow_Master> and what should I say there "the animation engine  is too slow". That, I think you don't ened a bug report for that
20090106 20:19:57-!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-188-113.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090106 20:20:24< Shadow_Master> now if I said "in add-on X, scenario Y, the animation engine is too slow", I myself would o and mark the bug as invalid
20090106 20:20:29< Shadow_Master> :P
20090106 20:21:26< Shadow_Master> If someone else could find a mainline case... NR last scenario perhaps?
20090106 20:21:36< Shadow_Master> but I am certainly not gonna play that campaign
20090106 20:24:44< stikonas> Ivanovic: can you add src/gui/dialogs/mp_cmd_wrapper.cpp to src/CMakeLists.txt ?
20090106 20:25:42< stikonas> it was only added to scons buildsystem
20090106 20:26:12< Shadow_Master> it's very easy to do though
20090106 20:26:13< Ivanovic> was it added to autotools?
20090106 20:26:23< stikonas> no
20090106 20:26:24< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: can you read my messages earlier btw? and hi
20090106 20:28:17< boucman> Shadow_Master: just add the bug, it's more a reminder for me than a "bug description"
20090106 20:28:40< Shadow_Master> boucman: why not file an autobug?
20090106 20:28:59< boucman> cause you're around to do it for me :P
20090106 20:29:33< Shadow_Master> Otherwise, I'll post "Per discussion on IRC, Boucman forced me to drop this meaningless bug report that is supposed to mean that he should optimize the animation engine when there are many off-screen units."
20090106 20:30:37< boucman> sounds good
20090106 20:32:04< Ivanovic> Shadow_Master: sorry, rather busy atm
20090106 20:32:10< Shadow_Master> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?12821
20090106 20:32:13< Shadow_Master> boucman: ^
20090106 20:32:16< Ivanovic> have not read the backlog and no idea if i will be able to do so today
20090106 20:32:23< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: oh:( okay
20090106 20:32:39< Ivanovic> (just got my new 40" tv and now i got to set it up
20090106 20:32:41< Ivanovic> ;)
20090106 20:32:42< Ivanovic> )
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20090106 20:33:19< Shadow_Master> :|
20090106 20:33:26< Shadow_Master> that's why you are busy? pffff
20090106 20:34:29< boucman> Shadow_Master: thx
20090106 20:35:32< Shadow_Master> boucman: I now attached a saved game and some instructions
20090106 20:35:40< boucman> k, thx
20090106 20:36:03< Shadow_Master> oh, the upload broke
20090106 20:36:54< Shadow_Master> uploaded another attachment 
20090106 20:37:07< Shadow_Master> and nuked the other
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20090106 20:40:45< Shadow_Master> if I only knew before that attachments could be removed...
20090106 20:42:08< boucman> Shadow_Master: they can, when you're loged in...
20090106 20:42:37< Shadow_Master> it would have saved me lots of confusion when posting my stuff
20090106 20:42:47< Shadow_Master> e.g. that gender patch
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20090106 21:05:47< CIA-53> loonycyborg * r31996 /trunk/src/ (CMakeLists.txt Makefile.am): Updated autotools and cmake with sourcefile added in r31987
20090106 21:06:01< loonycyborg> stikonas: ^
20090106 21:06:28< Shadow_Master> examine the diffs and learn
20090106 21:06:41< Shadow_Master> oops,l that was for other channel, sorry
20090106 21:07:18< stikonas> loonycyborg: thanks
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20090106 21:20:32< Ivanovic> re for some mins
20090106 21:20:49< Ivanovic> Shadow_Master: uhm, no idea what is wrong about the image you linked me in the forum post
20090106 21:20:56< Ivanovic> that is: for me the image looks perfectly fine
20090106 21:21:09< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: compare the scaled down version with the real
20090106 21:21:13< Shadow_Master> i.e. click on it
20090106 21:21:30< Ivanovic> i see no scaled down version there
20090106 21:21:32< Shadow_Master> At least I and kitty notice big differences (colors)
20090106 21:21:42< Shadow_Master> what??
20090106 21:22:10< Ivanovic> ahh, okay, i see what you mean
20090106 21:22:16< Shadow_Master> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=317640#p317640
20090106 21:22:27< Shadow_Master> scaled down is what you see in the post; original is what oyus ee after clicking
20090106 21:22:39< Ivanovic> to be honest: in this specific image the green looks better in the scaled down version...
20090106 21:22:40< Ivanovic> ;)
20090106 21:22:49< Shadow_Master> that is true
20090106 21:23:04< Shadow_Master> still, it is a bad bug.
20090106 21:23:20< Ivanovic> Shadow_Master: okay, so what is the general size of images that should *not* be changed?
20090106 21:23:28< Ivanovic> as in: what is the size of the new portraits?
20090106 21:23:38< Ivanovic> i will set this as upper max of images not to scale down
20090106 21:23:57< Shadow_Master> no no.
20090106 21:24:06< Ivanovic> currently the max for thumbnail images is 400px width
20090106 21:24:09< Shadow_Master> I think sdcaling down is good as long as it doesn't mess up the colors
20090106 21:24:23< Ivanovic> and scaling down is done via imagemagick
20090106 21:24:24< Shadow_Master> ohterwise the maximum may need to be set up to 500px
20090106 21:24:32< Shadow_Master> imagemagick eh?
20090106 21:24:35< Ivanovic> jupp
20090106 21:24:48< Shadow_Master> the upgrade to lenny should have fixed it if it was a known bug
20090106 21:24:50< Ivanovic> and images are only scaled down, if they are >12000 Byte
20090106 21:25:02< Shadow_Master> ugh.
20090106 21:25:08< Ivanovic> there is no bug, resizing also means recompressing
20090106 21:25:21< Ivanovic> and recompressing *can* change colors
20090106 21:25:22< Shadow_Master> hey, I resize my graphics all the time and never get color issues
20090106 21:25:34< Shadow_Master> the thumbnails are JPEGs?
20090106 21:25:54< Ivanovic> no idea
20090106 21:26:01< Ivanovic> okay, setting to 500px max
20090106 21:26:09< Ivanovic> max before scaling down
20090106 21:26:10< Shadow_Master> otherwise I never have anything like that, honestly, when resizing PNGs
20090106 21:26:47< Shadow_Master> there are tiny color changes, sure,. But never anything *that* noticeable
20090106 21:26:58< Ivanovic> okay, changed the setting, i hope this helps
20090106 21:27:33< Ivanovic> okay, afk again
20090106 21:28:04< Shadow_Master> doesn't help the particular post ... I auppose it applies only to new posts?
20090106 21:28:31< Shadow_Master> or the bytecount limit gets in the way it seems
20090106 21:29:44 * Shadow_Master afk too
20090106 21:30:05< Ivanovic> jupp
20090106 21:30:24< Ivanovic> ehm, rescaling does *not* happen when an image does not at least have 12kb
20090106 21:30:34< Ivanovic> and those portraits should all have a lot more
20090106 21:30:35< Ivanovic> ;)
20090106 21:31:12< Ivanovic> that is: only new posts will be affected by my latest change
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20090106 21:44:20< boucman> Shadow_Master: fyi, I think I found how to do it, testing...
20090106 21:53:18< boucman> Shadow_Master: tell me when you're available...
20090106 21:55:10 * thespaceinvader takes first tentative steps into committing stuff
20090106 21:55:15< CIA-53> thespaceinvader * r31997 /trunk/data/core/ (12 files in 3 dirs):
20090106 21:55:32< thespaceinvader> and forgets to add a message >.<
20090106 21:57:01< boucman> good fist try :)
20090106 21:58:39< thespaceinvader> righty then, onwards
20090106 22:00:56< Ivanovic> and you are not on wesnoth-commits so far (the ml)
20090106 22:01:08< Ivanovic> added a filter for your commits, so that they get through anyway
20090106 22:03:32-!- YogiHH [i=YogiHH@d083165.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090106 22:03:50< thespaceinvader> Ivanovic: okie doke
20090106 22:04:01< thespaceinvader> not entirely sure what that means, but it sounds good =D
20090106 22:04:37< YogiHH> hi everybody
20090106 22:04:39< Ivanovic> thespaceinvader: there is a mailling list where all commits are sent to
20090106 22:04:45< Ivanovic> this list is named "wesnoth-commits"
20090106 22:04:46< thespaceinvader> ah right
20090106 22:05:04< YogiHH> Ivanovic: fosdem is booked now
20090106 22:05:27< Ivanovic> YogiHH: great
20090106 22:05:30< Ivanovic> where will you stay?
20090106 22:05:37< YogiHH> Ivanovic: do we have any idea already where or if to meet on friday
20090106 22:05:41< YogiHH> ?
20090106 22:05:43< boucman> thespaceinvader: you might want to add a "commit" message on the forum, it helps keep track of what has been done or not for art...
20090106 22:05:55< thespaceinvader> yep, will do
20090106 22:06:01< Ivanovic> YogiHH: no idea so far where to meet
20090106 22:06:08< YogiHH> Ivanovic: brussels belgium hotel
20090106 22:06:12< Ivanovic> though we will probably meet in town
20090106 22:06:18< Ivanovic> YogiHH: where is this one?
20090106 22:06:43< CIA-53> ivanovic * r31998 /trunk/po/wesnoth-did/de.po: updated German translation
20090106 22:06:50< YogiHH> avenue louise, like 1-2 km northwest of the university
20090106 22:07:35< Ivanovic> hey, so you are pretty close, basically in walking distance
20090106 22:07:46 * YogiHH is not so fond of walking 45 minutes again ;-)
20090106 22:07:46< Ivanovic> our hostel is in the northwest of the town center
20090106 22:09:36-!- Mordante [n=chatzill@roadie.xs4all.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090106 22:10:03< Mordante> hi
20090106 22:10:09< Ivanovic> hi Mordante
20090106 22:10:11< YogiHH> hi mordante
20090106 22:10:24< Mordante> hi Ivanovic and YogiHH 
20090106 22:11:19< thespaceinvader> zookeeper: there?
20090106 22:13:28-!- [Relic] [n=[Relic]@76.229.202.137] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090106 22:14:31< [Relic]> Hello :)
20090106 22:14:47< Mordante> hi [Relic] 
20090106 22:14:51< [Relic]> :)
20090106 22:16:20< YogiHH> ilor, are you there?
20090106 22:16:35< ilor> YogiHH: sort of
20090106 22:16:58< YogiHH> ilor: is current svn in a state that compiles with vc++?
20090106 22:17:23< ilor> YogiHH: the game should compile, link and run under VC9SP1
20090106 22:17:37< ilor> wesnothd I haven't tried
20090106 22:17:37< YogiHH> oh, cool
20090106 22:17:54< Mordante> thespaceinvader kitty the right side portrait hasn't been implemented yet, but I hope to do that before 1.6
20090106 22:18:27< Mordante> at the moment I'm thinking about how to modify the WML so the old and new portraits can be combined
20090106 22:18:55< Mordante> I assume the current trunk won't compile a file has been added ;-)
20090106 22:19:10< ilor> YogiHH: there are some quirks with it, like requiring boost debug libs and python debug dll to link in debug mode, which is horribly slow probably as a result
20090106 22:20:01< loonycyborg> ilor: Btw are you using boost compiled with mingw for msvc builds?
20090106 22:20:18< loonycyborg> Theoretically that shouldn't work..
20090106 22:20:21< YogiHH> ilor: well, but just for bugfixing i can compile without HAVE_PYTHON still, right?
20090106 22:20:25< ilor> loonycyborg: uh that would have little hope ow working wouldn't it?
20090106 22:21:14< loonycyborg> There's a possibility that both compilers follow industr standards for name mangling and rtti :)
20090106 22:21:19< ilor> bjam toolset=msvc and all this, builds reasonably and doesn't even take that much of space if you don't build everything ;)
20090106 22:21:57< YogiHH> loonycyborg: yes, and the world is flat ;-)
20090106 22:24:08-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090106 22:26:12-!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090106 22:26:37< zookeeper> thespaceinvader, in a while, i'll tell you then..
20090106 22:26:50< YogiHH> o-o 30 MB svn update, still rising...
20090106 22:26:52< thespaceinvader> okie doke
20090106 22:27:39< Baufo> Mordante, actually with scons it compiles just fine
20090106 22:27:50< Baufo> anyways, night
20090106 22:28:00< YogiHH> night Baufo
20090106 22:28:01< Mordante> night Baufo 
20090106 22:28:06< Ivanovic> YogiHH: wait a moment
20090106 22:28:10< Ivanovic> then it will be 40MB
20090106 22:28:13-!- Baufo [n=thomas@62-47-149-141.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090106 22:28:17< Ivanovic> (currently commiting a pot-update)
20090106 22:28:41< loonycyborg> Mordante: Baufo's file is already added to other build systems :)
20090106 22:28:46< YogiHH> still updating, 35 MB and rising
20090106 22:30:40< CIA-53> ivanovic * r31999 /trunk/ (686 files in 35 dirs): pot-update (just for the fun doing one ;) )
20090106 22:31:49< Mordante> loonycyborg yes I noticed things work again, but I meant the VC9 system is probably still broken
20090106 22:32:08< Mordante> Ivanovic I really love those pot updates as well :-/
20090106 22:32:39< zookeeper> thespaceinvader, ok, what's up?
20090106 22:33:16< thespaceinvader> was gonna ask some stuff about the requirement for portraits in campaigns, and about moving them from resources, but i think i've figured it out
20090106 22:33:24< thespaceinvader> i'll be committing in a little bit
20090106 22:33:44< zookeeper> all right
20090106 22:35:35< Mordante> YogiHH cool that you're comming to the FOSDEM :-)
20090106 22:35:48< YogiHH> yep :-)
20090106 22:36:28< Ivanovic> Rrenys: i *love* the higher res version of the portrait from arne
20090106 22:36:55< Ivanovic> Rrenys: talk to the artists (that is probably kitty and thespaceinvader) to make them get it in
20090106 22:37:39< Rrenys> k
20090106 22:39:39< Rrenys> but kitty already saw that
20090106 22:39:45< noy> So who wants to deal with this: 
20090106 22:39:45< noy> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23576
20090106 22:39:47< Rrenys> its not done by me ofc, if thats what you thought
20090106 22:40:11< noy> Personally I think we have no need for it
20090106 22:40:33< noy> We already have a ladder, we seem to have problems running tournaments for lack of interest
20090106 22:40:55< noy> and we sorta have a policy against stats collection on multiplayer
20090106 22:42:58< Turuk> fancy site
20090106 22:43:55< Rrenys> its not free, is it?
20090106 22:44:19< noy> No clue
20090106 22:44:47< Turuk> I looked at their corporate site
20090106 22:44:49< Rrenys> I mean, someone who apparently has hired some professional web designers would want some income
20090106 22:44:49< Turuk> I am going to say no
20090106 22:44:56< Turuk> as consulting is one of their main services
20090106 22:45:08< Turuk> they will consult you on how to build community
20090106 22:45:18< Turuk> design interfaces to improve your game
20090106 22:45:25< Mordante> night
20090106 22:45:27< Turuk> and integrate it all together
20090106 22:45:33-!- Mordante [n=chatzill@roadie.xs4all.nl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Iceweasel 3.0.4/2008112309]"]
20090106 22:48:49< noy> ...
20090106 22:48:53< noy> so no
20090106 22:49:17-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@adsl-67-38-23-53.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090106 22:54:07< boucman> noy did you create an account/log in ?
20090106 22:54:22< noy> hell no
20090106 22:59:16< CIA-53> thespaceinvader * r32000 /trunk/data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/images/portraits/ (20 files): Update SotBE portraits to transparent versions.
20090106 22:59:31< CIA-53> thespaceinvader * r32001 /branches/resources/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/:
20090106 23:01:28< ilor> thespaceinvader: I'd be more careful about the blank-commit-message thing if I were you, to avoid a possible close encounter with a fish :P
20090106 23:01:43< thespaceinvader> fish? and arg, yes i know
20090106 23:02:09< thespaceinvader> and avoid absent mindedness in future
20090106 23:09:20< zookeeper> thespaceinvader, err, what svn client do you use?
20090106 23:10:07< zookeeper> your commit was a bit weird, seemed to be removing and adding the same files instead of modifying them.
20090106 23:12:26< Shadow_Master> boucman: re
20090106 23:12:32< boucman> re
20090106 23:12:47< boucman> Shadow_Master: I have implemented something, but I couldn't test it with your scenario
20090106 23:12:54< boucman> regression testing seems to be ok
20090106 23:12:56< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: okay
20090106 23:13:04< boucman> I'll commit, could you please test and report ? thx
20090106 23:13:22< Shadow_Master> thespaceinvader: you aren't the first dev with such a first commit :p
20090106 23:13:33< Shadow_Master> boucman: what did you implement?
20090106 23:13:52< Shadow_Master> and why you couldn't test it wth my scenario? I'm confused.
20090106 23:14:01< boucman> I did a complete restudy of the invalidation algorithm to make sure it would have no bad effect (that was the long part)
20090106 23:14:34< boucman> then I made sure animations invalidated only if they actually were on screen (that took 5')
20090106 23:14:56< Shadow_Master> okay (I sure hope you take into account bigger-than-hex units?). anyway, I'm ready for testing
20090106 23:17:35< boucman> yes, I do
20090106 23:17:43< boucman> if not, it would have been trivial
20090106 23:18:17< CIA-53> zookeeper * r32002 /trunk/data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/images/portraits/inarix.png: Erased a white border and some stray pixels.
20090106 23:18:53< Shadow_Master> I'm just surprised that I went to have lunch and it took you so few time to do it
20090106 23:19:06< Shadow_Master> s/have//
20090106 23:20:07< boucman> Shadow_Master: nice way to avoid wesbot's reply :P
20090106 23:20:14-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit ["Power failu"]
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20090106 23:20:50< Shadow_Master> didn't notice, seriously.
20090106 23:20:59< boucman> Shadow_Master: your luck was that the terrain redraw already used that optim, so the work needed to check that it worked was greatly reduced
20090106 23:21:54< Shadow_Master> wtf and I've been blaming the terrain animations on a scenario where you have many units and windmills, for all my problems...
20090106 23:22:03-!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe9ff800-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit []
20090106 23:22:16< CIA-53> boucman * r32003 /trunk/src/ (display.cpp display.hpp unit_frame.cpp): avoid invalidating of-the-screen-hex from unit animations, unless the hex contains a unit that will redraw on-the-screen-hex
20090106 23:22:25< boucman> Shadow_Master: I hope it helps, but many units might cause heavy redraw anyway
20090106 23:23:16< thespaceinvader> zookeeper: tortoiseSVN
20090106 23:23:27< Shadow_Master> zookeeper died
20090106 23:23:31< Shadow_Master> RIP zookeeper
20090106 23:23:38< thespaceinvader> dang
20090106 23:23:44 * thespaceinvader should learn to read properly
20090106 23:24:05< loonycyborg> zookeeper never dies. He waits :)
20090106 23:24:12< thespaceinvader> and there probably was a more efficient way to do what i did, but the job got done
20090106 23:24:30< thespaceinvader> and somehow, it doesn't surprise me that i'm not the first to forget the commit messages
20090106 23:24:34< Shadow_Master> SVN is always more efficient if you use the vanilla client
20090106 23:24:43< thespaceinvader> there's a lot to remember for someone who's not used to it
20090106 23:24:51< thespaceinvader> which is...?
20090106 23:24:59< thespaceinvader> i got this one at Jetryl's suggestion
20090106 23:25:01< Shadow_Master> the command line client from subversion.tigris.org
20090106 23:25:19< ilor> Shadow_Master: tortoisesvn rocks and is really a lot nicer than the command line client
20090106 23:25:21< Shadow_Master> but usually command line stuff in Windows works in a godawful fashion
20090106 23:25:41< Shadow_Master> I mean... they don't even have tab completion in their command shell, who can work with thtat!
20090106 23:25:44 * loonycyborg has no idea how does one make svn work from command-line on windows.
20090106 23:26:06< ilor> Shadow_Master: actually there is tab completion but it works a bit differently than bash
20090106 23:26:17< thespaceinvader> the words 'command line client' scare me
20090106 23:26:25< ilor> loonycyborg: add the directory with svn binaries to $path ;)
20090106 23:26:29< Shadow_Master> um, I probably have been away from Windows for too long
20090106 23:26:36< Shadow_Master> ilor: %path%
20090106 23:26:39< Shadow_Master> that I haven't forgot
20090106 23:26:44< thespaceinvader> i have probably been using windows for too long >.<
20090106 23:27:00< loonycyborg> ilor: Does TortoiseSVN include it? :)
20090106 23:27:04< Shadow_Master> no
20090106 23:27:15< ilor> loonycyborg: sadly no
20090106 23:27:56< Shadow_Master> thespaceinvader: np
20090106 23:27:59< ilor> the windows svn binaries have a weird hosting on some company's servers where you have to register (!) or something. thank $deity for bugmenot
20090106 23:28:20< Shadow_Master> the WTF?
20090106 23:28:54< Shadow_Master> http://subversion.tigris.org/getting.html#windows
20090106 23:29:08< loonycyborg> Anyway, if you want to look at log message for particular revision, command-line is *much* better.
20090106 23:29:17 * YogiHH is with thespaceinvader and TortoiseSVN ;-)
20090106 23:29:23 * Shadow_Master too actually
20090106 23:29:37 * thespaceinvader too
20090106 23:29:47< thespaceinvader> or is that redundant =P
20090106 23:29:48< Shadow_Master> as I said, cmd.exe is a godawful attempt at a true command line shell
20090106 23:29:51< ilor> Shadow_Master: ah, they must have changed that. last time I checked only silksvn was available and it ahd a "enter your email" BS
20090106 23:30:19 * Shadow_Master . o O (and wtf must it look like a DOS command.com?)
20090106 23:30:39< Shadow_Master> ilor: that surely sucks
20090106 23:30:50< ilor> yeah
20090106 23:31:16< Shadow_Master> I mean that's how I obtained MSVC++ 2005 IIRC
20090106 23:31:48< ilor> my uni has signed a pact with the devil and I get msvc from MSDNAA
20090106 23:32:38< Shadow_Master> at least you get a more complete version for free I guess?
20090106 23:32:54< Shadow_Master> * free (as in, you don't pay for it separately)
20090106 23:33:20< ilor> correct
20090106 23:34:10< ilor> the only actually useful thing apart from that is access to legal installs of previous windows versions for testing, VM use etc
20090106 23:34:22< Shadow_Master> boucman: compiling, got distracted with something else, sorry :p
20090106 23:34:28< boucman> np
20090106 23:34:58< Shadow_Master> who did trigger a full recompile this time? -.-
20090106 23:35:11< boucman> I did :P
20090106 23:35:11< Shadow_Master> ... yoiu.
20090106 23:35:21< boucman> modifying display.hpp tends to do that...
20090106 23:35:35< Shadow_Master> even the                                                                 AI e
20090106 23:35:39< Shadow_Master> wtf?
20090106 23:36:34< ilor> Shadow_Master: I tried graphing the include dependencies of wesnoth once. the script crashed.
20090106 23:36:34< Shadow_Master> it seems SSH somehow "got stuck"
20090106 23:36:52< Shadow_Master> ilor: I remember reading that. yeah :)
20090106 23:37:05< Shadow_Master> what was it? too many recursion levels?
20090106 23:37:14< ilor> I think I managed to get a png finally
20090106 23:37:17< Shadow_Master> or circular dependencies?
20090106 23:37:30< ilor> no, just too many dependencies
20090106 23:37:56< ilor> if everything depends on ten headers the graphing software got confused
20090106 23:38:19< loonycyborg> Only poor graphing software does :)
20090106 23:38:22< ilor> the png became readable only at a ridicolous resoultion
20090106 23:38:47< ilor> because it had to make the nodes very small to accomodate the huge amount of connections
20090106 23:39:33< loonycyborg> ilor: What was that script? Did it use graphviz?
20090106 23:39:39< ilor> yes I think so
20090106 23:40:07< ilor> it was "dep_graph.pl" and it generated a graphvis input file
20090106 23:40:32-!- Dragonking [n=dk@dedikerad/dragonking] has quit []
20090106 23:40:33< YogiHH> ilor: you know that there is already a perl app doing exactly that?
20090106 23:40:43< Shadow_Master> pot update?
20090106 23:40:56< YogiHH> no, visualization of dependencies
20090106 23:41:07< Shadow_Master> oh well, I hope it won't create problems when I merge my fellow's translations
20090106 23:41:12-!- ilor_ [n=user@unaffiliated/ilor] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090106 23:41:20< Shadow_Master> YogiHH: wasn't directed to you :p
20090106 23:41:27< YogiHH> oops :-)
20090106 23:41:28< ilor_> ah, I remember now. I think there was a limit of the png size it could do, and it was still to small
20090106 23:41:29< loonycyborg> YogiHH: You mean graph_includes? :)
20090106 23:41:38< YogiHH> yes
20090106 23:41:45< Shadow_Master> boucman: testing
20090106 23:42:20< YogiHH> loonycyborg: yann helped me to make it run on windows
20090106 23:42:29< ilor_> it would be nice to have the ai code not depending on display code, but it's not easy :/
20090106 23:42:42< Shadow_Master> boucman: feels smoother indeed
20090106 23:42:59< Shadow_Master> ~ 25 fps
20090106 23:43:14< boucman> instead of ?
20090106 23:43:22< Shadow_Master> if I scroll to other area i get around 44 fps
20090106 23:43:32< Shadow_Master> I don't remember :(
20090106 23:43:33< loonycyborg> Shadow_Master: On your new laptop?
20090106 23:43:37< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: yes
20090106 23:44:03< YogiHH> ilor_: you can achieve that relatively easy if you install an event-driven mechanism (generic_event was made for that), but it makes following the code a lot harder, then
20090106 23:44:15< Shadow_Master> I could rollback with git but... :)
20090106 23:44:22< YogiHH> ilor_: that's why we agreed to use it with care
20090106 23:44:54< Shadow_Master> there's a much worse test case where I know that (at least on the broken laptop) I barely managed 5 FPS
20090106 23:45:05< Shadow_Master> testing
20090106 23:45:34< Shadow_Master> damnit, with only one unit on screen this feels smooth like icecream :)
20090106 23:46:43< Shadow_Master> soooft.
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20090106 23:48:03< Shadow_Master> boucman: looks like you succeeded
20090106 23:48:09< ilor_> YogiHH: but there's no logical reason why AI should depend on display
20090106 23:48:29< Shadow_Master> I am at ~40 FPS on a scenario were I barely managed ~ 4 FPS
20090106 23:48:44< ilor_> it only happened because something includes something which uses something else which is from the display part
20090106 23:48:48< Shadow_Master> ~ 12 I mean, on a -O3 build
20090106 23:49:29< YogiHH> ilor: that is correct. You might still get into trouble if you want to achieve display actions  in the middle of a logical chunk of AI code.
20090106 23:50:46< ilor_> iirc the dependancy goes ai -> menu handler -> display and happens because menu_handler does everything and includes the kitchen sink right after display.hpp
20090106 23:51:36< Shadow_Master> scrolling is smoother in that scenario too
20090106 23:52:15< YogiHH> ilor: yes, menu_handler and some other related stuff is not designed well
20090106 23:53:03< boucman> glad you like it
20090106 23:53:09< YogiHH> ilor: it's actually where i stopped when i created the play_controller stuff :/
20090106 23:53:19< boucman> ok, bed time here
20090106 23:53:21< boucman> bye all
20090106 23:53:24< Shadow_Master> boucman: it's your duty to add a changelog entryn oW!
20090106 23:53:24< ilor_> bye boucman
20090106 23:53:26-!- boucman [n=rosen@159.83.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090106 23:53:34< Shadow_Master> aaargh, i dieee
20090106 23:54:14< Shadow_Master> um,
20090106 23:54:33< ilor_> YogiHH: what I mean is, the dependency is most likely coincidal, and happens because the classes aren't separated properly, and not because there's some actual display code needed
20090106 23:54:51< Shadow_Master> when will people keep the changelog categories in alphabetical order, with "miscellaneous and bug fixes" as an exception left at the end? :(
20090106 23:55:25< YogiHH> ilor: without having looked into that deeper it is very likely that you are correct on that
20090106 23:55:43< YogiHH> ilor: maybe we can work out some strategy on fosdem how to overcome this?
20090106 23:56:04< ilor_> it might also be that some code may want to show a dialog and needs to pass a display object to do that, and requires display.hpp
20090106 23:56:21< ilor_> mordante's new widgets don't need a display object
20090106 23:57:09< YogiHH> ilor_: that should only be the case on the highest controller level
20090106 23:58:12< ilor_> YogiHH: the old gui classess often ask for a display&, when the code calling it has no business with the map-display code there
20090106 23:58:32< YogiHH> hmm, what's all this titlescreen background stuff people talk about in the forums? Mine is completely black...
20090106 23:58:43-!- ilor [n=user@unaffiliated/ilor] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090106 23:59:35< YogiHH> ilor_: i can't say much about that, since i always tried to stay as far away from the display code as i could ;-)
--- Log closed Wed Jan 07 00:00:16 2009