--- Log opened Wed Jan 07 00:00:16 2009
--- Day changed Wed Jan 07 2009
20090107 00:00:16< CIA-53> ilor * r32004 /trunk/src/language.cpp: make the win32-only _putenv declaration non-msvc-only to avoid a waning under msvc which declares it earlier anyway.
20090107 00:01:05< YogiHH> Shadow_Master, you got windows as well, right?
20090107 00:01:08< Shadow_Master> yes
20090107 00:01:10-!- ilor [n=user@unaffiliated/ilor] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090107 00:01:25< ilor> the wifi router at my place is really trying my patience...
20090107 00:01:28< Shadow_Master> but I have not used it dierctly on a real machine for a year or so
20090107 00:01:40< YogiHH> Shadow_Master: Is it normal that i see a black background on the title screen?
20090107 00:01:58< Shadow_Master> not in GNU/Linux, that's for sure :)
20090107 00:02:18< Shadow_Master> unless you meant the "loading" screen
20090107 00:02:22< ilor> YogiHH: I see the backgrounds allright
20090107 00:02:33< YogiHH> nope, the titlescreen
20090107 00:02:45< Shadow_Master> your svn checkout's data dir might be outdated?
20090107 00:02:56< YogiHH> and if i enter for example the mp lobby, it overlays with the titlescreen after returning
20090107 00:03:21< YogiHH> i did a complete a few hours ago
20090107 00:03:21< Shadow_Master> no idea what may be wrong :/ perhaps mordante does
20090107 00:03:29< YogiHH> complete update
20090107 00:03:53< Shadow_Master> or loonycyborg 
20090107 00:05:59< YogiHH> ilor: are you starting with windowed mode?
20090107 00:06:06< ilor> YogiHH: yes
20090107 00:06:11< YogiHH> hmm, weird
20090107 00:06:39< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: weren't some versions/builds of our dependencies causing grave problems in Windows?
20090107 00:06:58< YogiHH> no background updates, whatever is painted stays on the screen :/
20090107 00:06:59< loonycyborg> YogiHH: Probably SDL_image is compiled without jpg support.
20090107 00:07:24< loonycyborg> Or it can't load jpg's dll.
20090107 00:07:47< YogiHH> eeek, that doesn't sound good
20090107 00:08:11 * loonycyborg has no idea why SDL_image uses dlopen/LoadLibrary by default to open image libs
20090107 00:08:25< ilor> YogiHH: I'd reccomend building sdl and not using a prebuilt lib
20090107 00:08:45< loonycyborg> ilor: I'd recommend the other way around.
20090107 00:08:48< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: for the same reason SDL does so
20090107 00:08:55< Shadow_Master> which is... crap I forgot.
20090107 00:09:15< YogiHH> now guys, that was *really* helpful :-P
20090107 00:09:20< ilor> loonycyborg: the binaries I found had the stderr.txt botched and there was *no* output under msvc
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20090107 00:10:03< Shadow_Master> I think it's just to make dependenceis removable at will
20090107 00:10:08< loonycyborg> YogiHH: Try using SDL_image dll from 1.5.7 release.
20090107 00:10:15< ilor> ha, switching to/from fullscreen re-randomizes the titlescreen image
20090107 00:10:19< Shadow_Master> but that's not really helpful if you don't exactly know what are your lowler level dependencies
20090107 00:10:26< Shadow_Master> it should be libjpeg, libpng for us.
20090107 00:11:04< Shadow_Master> (libpng requires libzlib)
20090107 00:11:10< YogiHH> loonycyborg: ok, will try that
20090107 00:11:15< YogiHH> but not tonight
20090107 00:11:24< YogiHH> i am off, guys, good night
20090107 00:11:40< Shadow_Master> gnight Yogi
20090107 00:11:56< loonycyborg> gn
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20090107 00:15:17< JonW> Hi does anyone know of a bug on normal in proven by the sword?
20090107 00:16:09< JonW> ai trying to recuit archers I think getting error msg I just cls with :clear is this ok?
20090107 00:16:21< JonW> 1.5.7
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20090107 00:23:27< Soliton> JonW: report the exact message on the bug tracker or here.
20090107 00:24:30< JonW> ok...
20090107 00:24:32< Shadow_Master> you can get it from stderr.txt if you are on windows, and copy paste it
20090107 00:24:32< JonW> I've not used bug tracker ...
20090107 00:24:42< Shadow_Master> bugs.wesnoth.org
20090107 00:25:09< JonW> ok looking for stderr.txt
20090107 00:25:32< Shadow_Master> <wesnoth installation dir or the VirtualStore equivalent>/stderr.txt
20090107 00:27:09< JonW> ok found stderr do I need to create an accout?
20090107 00:27:42< Shadow_Master> IIRC no
20090107 00:27:56< Shadow_Master> IIRC you have to use your email in that case, or something
20090107 00:28:10< JonW> ok I've put it on paste bin http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m1c6844a2
20090107 00:28:25< Shadow_Master> IIRC Gna's documentation knows better than me. Also try the trial and error procedure. It knows better than us.
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20090107 00:31:44< JonW> Bug #12823 now filled out I hope this wot u wanted!
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20090107 00:40:44< Shadow_Master> whenever I start Wesnoth now that I'm using radeonhd, I see the screen shake just before the loading screena ppears
20090107 00:40:51< Shadow_Master> * shake vertically
20090107 00:41:16< Shadow_Master> "did the haxx0rs invade mah box!" :<
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20090107 01:40:20< Shadow_Master> aaah, for the first time in ages, my add-on turns into a SIGSEGV bomb for Wesnoth... :(
20090107 01:40:30 * Shadow_Master to the rescue ...
20090107 01:52:42< Shadow_Master> got a heisenbug apparently.
20090107 01:52:53< Shadow_Master> the release build causes SIGSEGV but the debug one does not..
20090107 01:53:14< Shadow_Master> Sapient I read that you found a problem in the vconfig code?
20090107 01:53:17< Shadow_Master> it may be related
20090107 01:54:20< Shadow_Master> all you may ever want to know about what I was doing: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m4f7a7a7c
20090107 01:54:50< Shadow_Master> (since you weren't happy that time with just the 'bt' command output... ^__^ )
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20090107 01:57:51< Sapient> Sirp, I thought you might appreciate this: 
20090107 01:57:52< Sapient> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57643/focus=57918
20090107 01:58:12< Shadow_Master> aaaah, just in time. Thanks Turuk for the summoning :)
20090107 01:58:27< Turuk> see told you.  I do what I can
20090107 01:58:33< Sapient> yo Turuk
20090107 01:58:35< Sapient> hello Shikadi
20090107 01:58:42< Turuk> hey hey Sapient
20090107 01:58:47< Sirp> Sapient: that's the same thing as what was posted on the mailing list, no?
20090107 01:58:48< Shadow_Master> Turuk: you're truly a Forum Sith ;)
20090107 01:58:59< Turuk> I just made a joke to Shadow_Master that I would draw a summoning circle and conjure you up and voila
20090107 01:59:01< Shadow_Master> now Sapient, what do you think  about my problem?
20090107 01:59:01< Turuk> you appeared
20090107 01:59:09< Sapient> Sirp, that's one of the responses to what ivan_i posted
20090107 01:59:21< Sapient> apparently he didn't bother to read the whole discussion
20090107 01:59:56< Sapient> oops, looks like my link was wrong
20090107 02:00:01< Sirp> Sapient: yes.... :)
20090107 02:00:35< Sapient> read 7 Sep 08:31 Andreas Ericsson  response
20090107 02:01:05< Sapient> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57986
20090107 02:01:21< Sapient> "They already have, but every now and then someone comes along and suggest
20090107 02:01:21< Sapient> a complete rewrite in some other language. So far we've had Java (there's
20090107 02:01:21< Sapient> always one...), Python and now C++.
20090107 02:01:35< Sapient> It happens to all projects, sooner or later. The funny thing is that all those
20090107 02:01:36< Sapient> people that want their favourite software to be rewritten in their favourite
20090107 02:01:36< Sapient> programming language always wants someone else to rewrite it for them.
20090107 02:01:54< Sapient> ironic, huh? ;)
20090107 02:02:09< Sirp> Sapient: ahhhh yes, brilliant! :)
20090107 02:02:23< Sirp> Sapient: feel free to send that quote to the mailing list! :)
20090107 02:02:27< Sapient> I can't
20090107 02:02:35< Sapient> the dev-ml blocks my address
20090107 02:02:35< Sirp> oh yeah your mail being blocked...
20090107 02:02:44< Sirp> Sapient: just give in and get a gmail account. :p
20090107 02:02:47< Sapient> also chrome won't allow me to compose emails
20090107 02:02:50< Sirp> you'll thank me if you do. :)
20090107 02:03:13< Sirp> anyway, I'm off now...bye everyone...
20090107 02:03:15< Sapient> I tried gmail; not impressed enough to switch
20090107 02:03:21< Sapient> bye, Sirp
20090107 02:03:30< Sirp> some people have multiple email accounts. ;)
20090107 02:03:49< Sapient> those people scare me :p
20090107 02:03:59 * Shadow_Master is busy waiting
20090107 02:04:18< Sapient> because if I send email from an address that implies that some people think I might respond to it
20090107 02:04:19< Shadow_Master> there is something really weird with myproblem now :/
20090107 02:04:37< Sapient> so I feel compelled to check it
20090107 02:04:45< Sapient> can't commit to that
20090107 02:05:30 * Sapient supposes he could add a custome signature stating he doesn't check that account
20090107 02:05:39< Shadow_Master> nothing occurs if I put a dialog int eh macro and I use ESC
20090107 02:06:03 * Sapient reading
20090107 02:06:06< Shadow_Master> this is really random...
20090107 02:06:45< Sapient> uh dang, yeah it looks like it might be my bug
20090107 02:07:19< Sapient> that's with current trunk?
20090107 02:07:21< Shadow_Master> okay, it doesn't trigger if I put dialogs in between variable WML usage and I just skip them
20090107 02:07:25< Shadow_Master> yes
20090107 02:07:53< Sapient> crud; post the offending WML in a bugreport please
20090107 02:08:05< Shadow_Master> it's too long :/
20090107 02:08:09< Sapient> preferrably a minimalistic version...
20090107 02:08:16< Shadow_Master> I can paste the saved game version
20090107 02:08:23< Shadow_Master> :]
20090107 02:08:24< Sapient> that works
20090107 02:10:11< Shadow_Master> Sapient: would you believe that the saved game version is 3198 lines long? :)
20090107 02:10:18< Sapient> I'm glad I left in most of my debug logging
20090107 02:10:34< Shadow_Master> I'll have to just give you the macros...
20090107 02:10:57< Sapient> BTW, I highly reccommend --log-info=engine when working on WML-related issues
20090107 02:11:54< Shadow_Master> if it wasn't so random
20090107 02:12:11< Shadow_Master> me recommends --log-debug=all
20090107 02:12:32< Sapient> that would be insanity
20090107 02:12:55< Shadow_Master> if you use stderr.txt, sure
20090107 02:13:30< Shadow_Master> would you now believe me that enabling logging makes the bug disappear?
20090107 02:13:41 * Shadow_Master scratches head
20090107 02:13:55< Sapient> I believe you but I don't like what that implies
20090107 02:14:10< Shadow_Master> :]
20090107 02:15:04< Shadow_Master> I don't either. This is a blocker for my administration.
20090107 02:17:13< Shadow_Master> there's also the possibility that I stumbled upon a g++ 4.3 bug since I'm using -O3
20090107 02:17:18< Shadow_Master> do you want me to file a bug still?
20090107 02:17:32< Sapient> don't debug with 03
20090107 02:17:39< Sapient> sure
20090107 02:17:59< Shadow_Master> I cannot debug with O0.. asa I said before, nothing happens there..
20090107 02:18:01< Sapient> the problem most likely is with spawning an event from a volatile config that was incorrectly flagged as a non-volatile config
20090107 02:18:34< Shadow_Master> I am precisely spawning lots of events
20090107 02:18:42< Sapient> I guess it's possible that this is an optimization issue for g++4.3 but I kinda doubt it
20090107 02:19:15< Sapient> if you look in your log output it will say when [event] is being handled and if it is a volatile config it would say so
20090107 02:19:34< Shadow_Master> what is a "volatile config"?
20090107 02:19:54< Shadow_Master> (   volatile config foo = bar.get_parsed_config() ?? )
20090107 02:20:16< Sapient> it means that the underlying data is subject to change, for example if you are executing wml from a variable
20090107 02:20:24< Shadow_Master> ahh
20090107 02:21:04< Shadow_Master> I'll get an -O2 build to see what happens...
20090107 02:21:40< Shadow_Master> though I may as well just forget it iand just work around :/
20090107 02:22:26< Shadow_Master> I at least know that my WML is not working (for reasons yet to be determined), but it shouldn't *crash* either
20090107 02:22:39< Sapient> or, to be accurate, the underlying wml *would* be subject to change, and therefore it had to be memory managed
20090107 02:23:12< Sapient> so that it won't be subject to change
20090107 02:23:31< Sapient> makes sense? ;)
20090107 02:23:58< Shadow_Master> sure
20090107 02:23:59 * Shadow_Master hates to stumble upon bugs that he can't fix himself... filing bugs is not his area of expertise
20090107 02:24:27< Shadow_Master> nor my area of patience
20090107 02:24:58< Shadow_Master> Sapient: do you really, really, really need a bug report?
20090107 02:25:19< Shadow_Master> or did you already know that a problem existed?
20090107 02:25:34< Sapient> yes I need a bug report silly
20090107 02:25:58< Shadow_Master> foo
20090107 02:26:07< Sapient> if I knew about it I would have already fixed it
20090107 02:26:27< Shadow_Master> unless you were busy with something else
20090107 02:27:36< Sapient> while you do that, I must go consume food
20090107 02:27:43< Sapient> thanks
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20090107 02:28:44< Shadow_Master> I just hope you don't end asking me to send you the whole campaign
20090107 02:29:46< Shadow_Master> who's the genous that though cmake defaulting the preferences dir to .wesnoth15 would help anything
20090107 02:31:17 * Shadow_Master 's half asleep and has to do this... how awful
20090107 02:37:04< Shadow_Master> Sapient: I'd say no bug since it doesn't occur with -O2...
20090107 02:38:03< Shadow_Master> that is, I think you could safely assume that it is either a gcc bug, or ... a Wesnoth bug triggered by a very specific optimization.
20090107 02:38:08< Shadow_Master> ugh.
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20090107 02:49:23< Shadow_Master> Sapient: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?12824
20090107 02:49:39< Shadow_Master> slap me with a fish if I did something wrong
20090107 02:51:40< Shadow_Master> i'll now go to rest
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20090107 05:38:15< Sapient> Shadow_Master: bad news, my boost/zlib stopped working... again
20090107 05:38:33< Sapient> I been trying to fix it for a couple of hours now
20090107 05:39:42< crimson_penguin> how do those things break?
20090107 05:39:54< Sapient> jeck if I know
20090107 05:40:07< Sapient> it started throwing exceptions from iostreams
20090107 05:40:16< crimson_penguin> huh
20090107 05:40:17< Sapient> and I can't connect to get add-ons anymore
20090107 05:40:25< crimson_penguin> very odd indeed
20090107 05:40:43< Sapient> I wish we never introduced that dependency
20090107 05:41:28< Sapient> so I tried to remove then add all my boost libs again
20090107 05:41:38< Sapient> now I can't get wesnoth to link
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20090107 05:41:50< Sapient> C:\projects\wesnoth\wesnothd\src\game.cpp|1690|undefined reference to `boost::iostreams::zlib::default_strategy'|
20090107 05:42:13< Sapient> so what am I missing here?
20090107 05:42:31< Sapient> iostreams, zlib, some define -D ?
20090107 05:42:40< Smar> path to boost/zlib?
20090107 05:43:02< Sapient> no... this is a linking error
20090107 05:43:10< Smar> even then.
20090107 05:43:31< Smar> don’t wesnoth have install file that tells needed flags?
20090107 05:43:48< Sapient> how is a path to boost/zlib relevant to linking?
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20090107 05:44:12< Smar> don’t ask me.
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20090107 05:45:49< crimson_penguin> wow, it gives you a line number when linking?
20090107 05:46:02< Sapient> yes
20090107 05:46:42< crimson_penguin> wesnothd\src\game.cpp? that seems odd
20090107 05:47:04< Sapient> in.push(boost::iostreams::gzip_compressor());
20090107 05:47:12< Sapient> not odd at all
20090107 05:47:25< Smar> missing/invalid include?
20090107 05:47:38< Smar> or some compiler parameter is missingg
20090107 05:48:13< Sapient> again, this is not compiler error
20090107 05:48:54< crimson_penguin> maybe if we have a look at where that should be defined
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20090107 05:49:29< crimson_penguin> Sapient: by the way, when building Frogatto on Windows, I just put the Boost sources right in the project and compiled them with it
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20090107 05:51:36< Sapient> hmm
20090107 05:51:54< Sapient> guess I need to rebuild boost
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20090107 05:52:41< Sapient> this could be a weekend project at this rate
20090107 05:52:50< Sapient> :(
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20090107 06:01:18< Sapient> why is it so hard to configure boost
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20090107 12:27:19< Soliton> ESR_: https://gna.org/bugs/?12819  sounds like there is a wmllint rule missing?
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20090107 13:00:49< CIA-53> thespaceinvader * r32005 /trunk/data/core/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Add the new Iron Mauler portrait by LordBob.
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20090107 13:02:36< JW1> Hey guys, the EoM is released on the 1.5 server ;)
20090107 13:02:39< JW1> thanks Sapient!!
20090107 13:03:10< JW1> (I'm sure he'll read the transcription later :p)
20090107 13:08:37< ESR_> Soliton: I'm going to attach a comment to that bug.
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20090107 13:54:31< zookeeper> Sapient, i'm glad to hear that objects will be easily removable again. so are you going to move back to how things were earlier entirely, or implement something smart that'll still allow me to get the actual modified values?
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20090107 14:12:07< Sapient> zookeeper: something smart of course
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20090107 14:13:21< Sapient> we would need to store unmodification information in the unit
20090107 14:13:48< Sapient> this information could be constructed when the modification is first applied
20090107 14:14:38< Sapient> unfortunately, it will make the unit.cpp code a lot more complex with respect to modifications
20090107 14:14:56< Sapient> so that's why it probably needs to wait for 1.7
20090107 14:16:09< zookeeper> well, what to do about stuff that's broken now, like duration=level objects?
20090107 14:31:23< Sapient> I already committed a fix for that
20090107 14:34:06< Sapient> duration=level objects will trigger a unit to be rebuilt from its type
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20090107 14:53:58< Ivanovic> hiho
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20090107 15:25:55 * Soliton wonders how http://gna.org/bugs/?12823 could have happened.
20090107 15:26:25< Soliton> the ai should be able to recruit poachers just fine.
20090107 15:26:48< Soliton> and neither the scenario nor the poacher's usage has changed recently.
20090107 15:28:02< Soliton> hmm, maybe there are recruit list modifications.
20090107 15:28:52< Soliton> ah, indeed.
20090107 15:29:10< zookeeper> right, i can take care of that
20090107 15:29:16< Soliton> zookeeper: can you modify the recruitment pattern as well?
20090107 15:29:23< zookeeper> yup
20090107 15:29:30< Soliton> ok, cool.
20090107 15:30:44< Soliton> probably also need to add scout to the pattern so the bats actually get used.
20090107 15:42:21< CIA-53> zookeeper * r32006 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_South_Guard/scenarios/02_Proven_By_The_Sword.cfg: Updated Urza Nalmath's recruitment pattern when his recruit list changes, probably fixes bug #12823.
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20090107 16:07:26< Shadow_Master> Sapient: bad news :(
20090107 16:07:36< Sapient> Shadow_Master: yes?
20090107 16:07:50< Shadow_Master> Sapient: I confirmed it's not a specific bug to my -O3 -march... set of flags. It happens with the regular -O2 build as well
20090107 16:08:04< Sapient> right, I didn't think it was
20090107 16:08:04< Shadow_Master> now I'm trying like mad to reproduce it with -O0 and debug ymbols
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20090107 16:08:23< Shadow_Master> it's just a darn random bug
20090107 16:08:43< Sapient> Shadow_Master: did you reproduce it with logging on?
20090107 16:08:58< Sapient> your logs could be useful in the bugreport
20090107 16:09:13< Shadow_Master> will try
20090107 16:09:34< Shadow_Master> \o/
20090107 16:10:18< Shadow_Master> I did something that makes it more reproduceable, it seems
20090107 16:11:18< Shadow_Master> --log-debug=all disipates the bug again...
20090107 16:12:26< Shadow_Master> me has core dump with symbols :)
20090107 16:12:45< Shadow_Master> but no logs
20090107 16:13:22< Sapient> logs will be more useful.. we already know where it is crashing
20090107 16:13:47< Sapient> but it is what happens before the crash that is evil
20090107 16:14:34< Sapient> (improper event spawning)
20090107 16:16:20< Shadow_Master> --log-info=engine ?
20090107 16:17:24< Shadow_Master> Sapient: does a log serve even if the crash does not occur?
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20090107 16:18:13< Shadow_Master> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/d57f94a4c
20090107 16:26:18< Sapient> possibly...
20090107 16:26:22 * Sapient checks
20090107 16:27:34< Sapient> yep. that's your problem... not a single [event] config was being recognized as volatile
20090107 16:28:15< Sapient> although some of them were being inserted from variables, IIRC
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20090107 16:33:18< Shadow_Master> no
20090107 16:33:29< Shadow_Master> all of the are inserted from macroified WML
20090107 16:33:35< Shadow_Master> e.g. simple WML.
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20090107 16:34:56< Sapient> but you were using insert_tag, were you not?
20090107 16:35:10< Shadow_Master> no
20090107 16:35:24< Shadow_Master> ah, wait, I do, sorry
20090107 16:39:05< Shadow_Master> Sapient: I'll be rewriting all that WML btw
20090107 16:39:27< Shadow_Master> but I'd like to make sure that invalid WNML does not cause crashes
20090107 16:40:01 * Shadow_Master waves a fish at ESR_ since Python *can* crash, and his tools certainly do with IftU from time to time
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20090107 16:41:10< ESR_> Python crashes, or crashes in my tools?  Most likely the latter. 
20090107 16:41:25< Shadow_Master> what I mean is that a Python program *can* crash
20090107 16:41:34< Shadow_Master> (if the interpreter doesn't crash)
20090107 16:41:57< loonycyborg> Shadow_Master: That's obvious. As if I've never seen python tracebacks :)
20090107 16:42:02< ESR_> Of course, I never said otherwise.
20090107 16:42:12< Shadow_Master> ESR_: you said "Python never core dumps"
20090107 16:42:28< loonycyborg> Traceback != core dump
20090107 16:42:31< ESR_> Shadow_Master: Correct.
20090107 16:42:38< Shadow_Master> it is still a crash
20090107 16:42:46< Shadow_Master> and I can make a C++ program never core dump if I use ulimit -c 0
20090107 16:42:49< ESR_> ...
20090107 16:43:05< Shadow_Master> what I mean is that your usage of "core dump" there is an overstatement, but nvm
20090107 16:43:23 * ESR_ think Shadow_Master must not have booted up his brain this morning.
20090107 16:43:43< Shadow_Master> I am very sure that it is working alright
20090107 16:44:03< loonycyborg> Shadow_Master: You can never be sure about that.
20090107 16:44:17< ESR_> ulimit 0c 0 does nothing about SIGSEGV.  
20090107 16:44:22< Shadow_Master> no
20090107 16:44:24< loonycyborg> What if it working alright is a hallucination? :)
20090107 16:44:33< Shadow_Master> but it prevents "core dumps"
20090107 16:44:50< Shadow_Master> you still don't understand what I said just above, but never mind..
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20090107 16:45:57< loonycyborg> Shadow_Master: Both python and C++ have features to prevent certain kinds of mistakes.
20090107 16:46:23< loonycyborg> Though they prevent different kinds of mistakes :)
20090107 16:48:52< loonycyborg> ESR_: Though I think preventing invalid memory access is overrated. There are some really vicious bugs that can hide in non-typesafe, dynamic python code.
20090107 16:49:32< loonycyborg> The larger the python project is, the nastier they become.
20090107 16:49:38< Shadow_Master> logic bugs
20090107 16:50:40< ESR_> loonycyborg: That's true in any language.  But at least in Python and similar languages you can intrrospect in the crash environment using the language itself, with full access to the data structures.
20090107 16:51:27< loonycyborg> ESR_: gdb was always enough for me to diagnose a C++ problem.
20090107 16:52:06< ESR_> loonycyborg: Sure, if you're a hairy aged-in-evil C hacker...
20090107 16:52:17< Shadow_Master> ESR_: what I certainly don't  like of most interpreted languages I know of (except Perl), is that if you wrote code for a very rare condition, you won't notice it is screwed up until you stumble upon that condition, even if those are simple syntax mistakes
20090107 16:52:41< ESR_> ...but I'm one of those and even I find the friction cost of gdb fairly high.
20090107 16:53:44< ESR_> Shadow_Master: Python will pick up syntax mistakes when it does its bytecode compilattion.  It's just like Perl that way.
20090107 16:54:13< loonycyborg> ESR_: Then why do you think about hunting a python exception that is caught by intermediate code and reraised so you can't find the place where it was raised?
20090107 16:54:16< Shadow_Master> ESR_: well, for it didn't catch some subtler errors for me while hacking trackplacer
20090107 16:54:54< Shadow_Master> of the kind "you are using an object of an incorrect 'type'"
20090107 16:55:21< ESR_> loonycyborg: Duh.  You temporarily disable the outer catch.  I've done this.
20090107 16:55:45< ESR_> Shadow_Master: No late-binding language can catch those errors.
20090107 16:55:52< Shadow_Master> ESR_: that's a pity.
20090107 16:56:11 * ESR_ is a language-design geek.
20090107 16:56:24< Shadow_Master> and we use many complex OO techniques around Wesnoth's code
20090107 16:56:36< Shadow_Master> (multiple inheritance, for starters)
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20090107 16:57:31< loonycyborg> ESR_: That's PITA imo. Especially if there's much code in the catch or there are multiple catches.
20090107 16:58:07< loonycyborg> gdb's catch throw is *so* much better.
20090107 16:58:19< ESR_> loonycyborg: Welll...it's a rare case and life is hard.
20090107 17:00:25< loonycyborg> Yes. Life is hard. But there's no point in creating unneeded problems for yourself.
20090107 17:01:00< loonycyborg> That's why it's better to use python for small scale projects, rapid prototyping and scripting.
20090107 17:02:19< Sapient> python does support private variables, but it seems more like an afterthought
20090107 17:02:46< loonycyborg> Python's really advantageous in those situations since it doesn't require recompilation and is remarkably clean.
20090107 17:03:01< Shadow_Master> "clean"?
20090107 17:03:35< ESR_> Er...the entirety of C and C++ is an unneeded problem for most applications.  And I say this as one of the most experienced C programmers alive!
20090107 17:03:36< loonycyborg> Shadow_Master: It doesn't have ugly {@# things. Ew!
20090107 17:03:56< Sapient> don't forget semi-colons
20090107 17:04:14< Sapient> whitespace is much prettier than semicolons ;)
20090107 17:04:29< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: C++ doesn't have such a thing AFAIHES
20090107 17:04:33< Shadow_Master> @ # ?!
20090107 17:04:37< Sapient> so you could say that whitespace language is the cleanest language :)
20090107 17:04:55< Shadow_Master> # is for directives, but it is not part of the 'language'
20090107 17:05:13< Shadow_Master> ESR_, loonycyborg : is this a clean Python program: http://wesnoth-umc-dev.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/wesnoth-umc-dev/branches/maintenance-toolchain/space2underscore.py?view=markup
20090107 17:05:56< ESR_> It looks pretty reasonable.
20090107 17:06:08< Shadow_Master> I don't understand a thing :/
20090107 17:06:42< Shadow_Master> I see it considers 'os' an object, and uses lowlevel commands that require you to specify argv[0] for some weird reason
20090107 17:07:38< loonycyborg> Shadow_Master: os is not an object. It's a module.
20090107 17:08:02 * zookeeper notes being one of the most experienced WML programmers alive!
20090107 17:08:12< Shadow_Master> I'm not saying that the POSIX execve() family of cuntions don't do the same, but you can get away with system() ost of the time
20090107 17:08:13< voris> Just don't 'import skynet' and you'll be fine.
20090107 17:08:24< loonycyborg> Modules are similar to C++ namespaces.
20090107 17:08:36< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: no.
20090107 17:08:50< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: namespaces aren't accessed using the . operator
20090107 17:09:00< loonycyborg> s/::/. :)
20090107 17:09:38< Shadow_Master> I have no idea what the script does, but I suspect it could have been easily written in sh or Perl and made shorter
20090107 17:10:38< Shadow_Master> something at the top suggest so... um wtf is doing a bare $Id$ line there?
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20090107 17:10:46< loonycyborg> os.spawnlp could be replaced with subprocess.call
20090107 17:11:03< Shadow_Master> viewvc is broken :/
20090107 17:11:26< Shadow_Master> e.g. not svn:keywords aware
20090107 17:12:55< ESR_> zookeeper: Yes, you are.  C as we know it goes back 30 years; I've been writing in it for 25 of those.
20090107 17:13:12< Soliton> ESR_: you missed his point completely.
20090107 17:13:28< Soliton> not that that is surprising.
20090107 17:14:01< Thrawnwesnoth> ouch, burn
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20090107 17:14:20< Shadow_Master> Thrawnwesnoth: helloo
20090107 17:14:33< ESR_> No, I chose to blithely ignore it :-)
20090107 17:15:10< Soliton> well, same thing.
20090107 17:18:33< loonycyborg> ESR_: “When you are hungry, eat; when you are thirsty, drink; when you are tired, sleep.” :)
20090107 17:19:02< loonycyborg> For now python cannot replace C++, so it's better to use them together.
20090107 17:19:35< zookeeper> what, did someone have a point?
20090107 17:19:35< loonycyborg> Untill Haskell will become widespread enough and replace all languages :)
20090107 17:20:12< Shadow_Master> If Python "supposedly is" the solution for attracting new programmers, how come it hasn't worked well for the AI ? :/ we do not have more than one alternate, full-featured (?) Python AI script
20090107 17:20:40< Shadow_Master> and I don't remember being able to make it work last time I tried it in a local MP game
20090107 17:20:42< zookeeper> uh, because writing an AI is just so hard to the language doesn't matter that much?
20090107 17:20:46< ESR_> The point is, when a C programmer with 25 years of experience and and his C code everywhere in the freakin' universe tells you that C has become a bad choice for most application development, that's an evaluation you should take pretty seriously.
20090107 17:20:59< loonycyborg> Shadow_Master: Only using python for the buildsystem attracted a new programmer :)
20090107 17:21:15< zookeeper> i think the people who'd be most interested in writing new AIs are regular contributors, not programmers. and you need to be a real experienced programmer to write a good python AI.
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20090107 17:21:52< loonycyborg> zookeeper: Especially considering that current python AI api is pretty low-level.
20090107 17:22:03< zookeeper> well, i guess there might be real experienced programmers out there who'd want to write an AI and wouldn't want to do that in C++, but...meh, not so many, i guess.
20090107 17:22:06< zookeeper> yeah
20090107 17:22:23< Soliton> when someone tells me that he is better because he says so and thus his arguments are better than mine then i'd probably rather ignore him.
20090107 17:22:52< ESR_> ....
20090107 17:23:24< Sapient> C is a bad choice for application development, I agree
20090107 17:23:39< ESR_> Well, if experience counts for nothing in your universe I guess there's nothing more I can say.
20090107 17:23:43< Sapient> c is an old byte processing language without templates, exceptions, namespaces, constructors/destructors (and therefore RAII), virtual function polymorphism, references, operator/function overloading, reusable standard generic containers, or explicitly named casts.
20090107 17:24:32< Sapient> If you meant to say C++ or C# however, I'd disagree
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20090107 17:25:19< Shadow_Master> thanks for ... well, it does not matter anyway
20090107 17:26:13< Soliton> experience != claims of experience
20090107 17:26:19< loonycyborg> I tried to learn C# long ago, but got annoyed by boxing/unboxing stuff
20090107 17:26:30< loonycyborg> I wasn't microsoft hater at that time.
20090107 17:26:32< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: first language I actually learned
20090107 17:26:41< Soliton> there is the question of credibility.
20090107 17:26:48< ESR_> Dude, my code is in your kernel and your X-Box and probably in your cellphone.
20090107 17:26:53< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: then I moved on to C and C++
20090107 17:27:32< loonycyborg> My first language was C :)
20090107 17:27:34< Thrawnwesnoth> people, let's not bash ESR's experience
20090107 17:27:50< zookeeper> Thrawnwesnoth, who's bashing?
20090107 17:27:56< ESR_> I don't have to "claim" -- I can jost point.
20090107 17:28:44< ESR_> s/jost/just/
20090107 17:28:55< Shadow_Master> riiight.
20090107 17:29:45< Shadow_Master> this is why I didn't choose to study politics :)
20090107 17:29:56< voris> My first language was fortran. I actually didn't get on the C bandwagon until pretty late.
20090107 17:30:31< loonycyborg> I remember I've learned some C by a book, but missed the compilation part. So I tried running it by renaming the sourcefile to .exe :)
20090107 17:30:39< ESR_> :-)
20090107 17:30:49< voris> ha
20090107 17:34:11< crimson_penguin> whhyy is ATSServer using lots of processor? isn't that the font server?
20090107 17:34:31< crimson_penguin> I guess it's indexing the fonts
20090107 17:37:49< Shadow_Master> ESR_: any recommendation for translating the  very exotic dwarvish dialect to spanish? :(
20090107 17:37:54< crimson_penguin> Stupid Spotlight
20090107 17:38:07 * crimson_penguin just realized he's in the wrong channel :-/
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20090107 17:38:38< crimson_penguin> sorry for the randomness
20090107 17:38:50< ESR_> Shadow_Master: Maybe give them a thick Navarrese accent and sprinkle in recognizable Basque words?
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20090107 17:39:24< ESR_> Hm, you're Chilean.  That might not work.
20090107 17:40:19< ESR_> Is there a mountain dialect in Chilean?  One with associations of toughness?
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20090107 17:41:29< loonycyborg> Dialect of Chilean dwarves :)
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20090107 17:43:52< ESR_> Do you understand the reasomn I gave them a a Scots accent? (And not just me, Peter Jsackson did the same thing in the Rings movies for the same reasons.)
20090107 17:48:00< Shadow_Master> ESR_: no, there's no dialect in C
20090107 17:48:06< Shadow_Master> hile
20090107 17:49:20< Shadow_Master> I need to stick to Spain's original language to keep with the tradition set by other maintainers. I'm not in a place to change that, now; even if I am the new maintainer, I'm not that experienced. Specially since I'm not Spanish.e
20090107 17:50:07< ESR_> Shadow_Master: That puts you in kind of a bind.
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20090107 17:51:35< ESR_> Shadow_Master: Are there any orthographic or usage differences between Chilean spanish and Castiliano that you're concerned about?
20090107 17:51:49< Ivanovic> Sirp: we got a chance to meet leslie at FOSDEM
20090107 17:51:55< Ivanovic> she will be holing some talk
20090107 17:52:33< elias> who is leslie?
20090107 17:52:56< Ivanovic> elias: leslie aka lh from google
20090107 17:53:07< Ivanovic> she is the "boss" of summer of code
20090107 17:53:14< Ivanovic> and she is *very* enthusiastic
20090107 17:53:21< elias> i see, nice
20090107 17:53:34< elias> will you talk about wesnoth's SoC experience at fosdem?
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20090107 17:54:15< Shadow_Master> I'm just trying to salvage a translation team that has been abandoned for very long due to the rdiculously big pile of work for mainline since 1.4
20090107 17:54:31< Shadow_Master> ESR_: um...
20090107 17:54:52< Shadow_Master> ESR_: the big problem is that Spanish-speaking countries, there are many (compared to English), bt the language differences are horrendously big
20090107 17:55:11< ESR_> I know.  I used to speak Spanish, you know.
20090107 17:55:22< ESR_> Venezuelan Spanish.
20090107 17:55:23< Shadow_Master> and we are not close enough to know of our differenences... I don0't think I can do the dialect-trick
20090107 17:55:52< Shadow_Master> Chilean and Argentine spanish are too different already
20090107 17:55:53< ESR_> Shadow_Master: Then don't try.  That sort of thing sounds awful if you get it wrong.
20090107 17:56:06< Shadow_Master> (and my only teammate is argentinean :)
20090107 17:56:54< ESR_> A lot of native English-speakers botch writing in our dialects, too.  I can do it, but it's an unusual skill.  
20090107 17:56:57< Shadow_Master> (there's a long established tradition in Chile and Argentina that we hate eeach other - you can see how weird the Latinamerican world it is)
20090107 17:57:30< Shadow_Master> anywayk, I appreciate that usage of scottish in the dwarves' dialogs, it's just a pity that at least in Spanish it can't be translated in a proper maner
20090107 17:57:48< Shadow_Master> I guess that for instance, in Czech or other single-country languages , it is perfectly possible though
20090107 17:58:00< ESR_> The Argentiinian accent sounds very odd to me -- flat, almost twangy.  I'm not sure I've ever heard Chilean Spanish.
20090107 17:58:45< Shadow_Master> I've read that the Argentinean spanish is mostly influened by Italian inmigrants early on their history
20090107 17:59:21< Shadow_Master> Chilean has always been closer to the original Spanish in that regard, but we dropped many grammatical formalities
20090107 17:59:24< ESR_> I might like it if I learned it, I suppose. I used to speak Italian, too.
20090107 17:59:59< Ivanovic> elias: most likely not
20090107 18:00:20< Ivanovic> just saw her mail to the mentor list, she was online, and i asked her if she would come to fosdem
20090107 18:00:29< ESR_> Venezualan is also a conservative dialect, I think.  Much more so than the Central American or Caribbean varieties, anyway.
20090107 18:00:41< elias> will there be any Wesnoth talks?
20090107 18:02:43< Ivanovic> elias: no official talks
20090107 18:02:50< Ivanovic> but lots of chatting among us wesnoth devs
20090107 18:02:57< elias> i see :)
20090107 18:04:00< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: sent you a translation update
20090107 18:04:26< Shadow_Master> I think I motivated that guy a lot by showing him g.w.o . That's why stringfreeze rocks :)f
20090107 18:05:21< elias> oh no, German is only on 3rd place
20090107 18:05:34< elias> Ivanovic and chrber being lazy it seems
20090107 18:06:07< CIA-53> ivanovic * r32007 /trunk/po/wesnoth-low/es.po: updated Spanish translation
20090107 18:06:58< Ivanovic> elias: hey, we can't do everything ourselves
20090107 18:07:12< Ivanovic> and currently crommy is busy with sotbe, so this should be done soon, too
20090107 18:07:35< elias> who is translating anl?
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20090107 18:11:46< Shadow_Master> ESR_: still around?
20090107 18:11:52< ESR_> Yes.
20090107 18:12:22< Shadow_Master> can you check #: data/campaigns/Liberty/scenarios/06_The_Gray_Woods.cfg:343 ?
20090107 18:12:37< Shadow_Master> we are confused about the use of "overestimate" in that sentence
20090107 18:13:33< Shadow_Master> gins suggests that it may have been meant "underestimate" instead
20090107 18:14:02< Shadow_Master> (gins == my only slave atm.)
20090107 18:14:57< Ivanovic> elias: chrber wanted to ask "the new one" to have a look at it, though it is not yet fixed
20090107 18:15:33< Ivanovic> elias: but, uhm, talk to him yourself in #wesnoth-de
20090107 18:15:35< Ivanovic> ;)
20090107 18:15:46< Shadow_Master> dasdano existe, 
20090107 18:17:10< Shadow_Master> stupid scrolling area. I should probably switch it tmy left hand
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20090107 18:17:48< Shadow_Master> the keyboard's design doesn't help either. ESR_ did you read above?
20090107 18:18:11< ESR_> Looking...
20090107 18:18:55< [Relic]> Hello :)
20090107 18:19:20< Shadow_Master> ESR_: we are also nitpicking #: data/campaigns/Liberty/scenarios/07_The_Hunters.cfg:158
20090107 18:19:39< Shadow_Master> for the usage of "enemies of Wesnoth" twice in consecutive sentences
20090107 18:21:12< ESR_> Shadow_Master: Uage of "overestimate" is correct there, but thast construction is negative in a way almost guaranteed to confuse non-native speakers.  If Ivanovic is OK with changing it, I'll fix it.
20090107 18:21:41< Ivanovic> if this makes the string clearer, do so!
20090107 18:21:57< Shadow_Master> and what about the latter?
20090107 18:22:17< Shadow_Master> (data/campaigns/Liberty/scenarios/07_The_Hunters.cfg:158)
20090107 18:22:38< ESR_> Also poor usage.  I can fix it.
20090107 18:23:10< ESR_> Ivanovic: Yes, it will make the string clearer.  Otherwise you are very likely to get translation errors there.
20090107 18:23:21< Ivanovic> hmm, then fix it
20090107 18:23:36< Shadow_Master> ESR_: data/campaigns/Liberty/scenarios/07_The_Hunters.cfg line 300
20090107 18:23:48< Shadow_Master> ESR_: gins complains that it sounds like a troll speaking :)
20090107 18:23:55< ESR_> I'm on it.
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20090107 18:27:01< Shadow_Master> what do you think?
20090107 18:27:16< CIA-53> esr * r32008 /trunk/data/campaigns/Liberty/scenarios/ (06_The_Gray_Woods.cfg 07_The_Hunters.cfg): Fix some poor usage that would probably have led to translation mistakes.
20090107 18:27:25< ESR_> Shadow_Master: You were right to bring those to my attention.  Both instances were technically correct but bad usage.
20090107 18:27:34< Shadow_Master> and what about the thrid?
20090107 18:27:40< Shadow_Master> third
20090107 18:27:50< ESR_> Sorry, point me at it again?
20090107 18:28:36< Shadow_Master> ESR_: data/campaigns/Liberty/scenarios/07_The_Hunters.cfg line 300
20090107 18:28:39< Shadow_Master> ESR_: gins complains that it sounds like a troll speaking :)
20090107 18:28:48< ESR_> On it.
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20090107 18:29:32< ESR_> Heh.  Yes it does.
20090107 18:29:48< Shadow_Master> what do you think?
20090107 18:30:07< ESR_> I'm nit certain that one justifies a string melt, though.  Ivanovic?
20090107 18:30:44< Ivanovic> pah, let him speak this way...
20090107 18:30:56< Shadow_Master> :(
20090107 18:31:08< Shadow_Master> puny humans
20090107 18:32:18< Shadow_Master> ESR_: #: data/campaigns/Liberty/scenarios/07_The_Hunters.cfg:176  ; the last sentence is an archaic form of English, right?
20090107 18:32:23< Shadow_Master> (just checkin')
20090107 18:33:15< ESR_> You mean "Quickly, approach."?
20090107 18:33:56< Shadow_Master> yup
20090107 18:34:40< ESR_> That's not archaic, that's just...bad.
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20090107 18:35:22< ESR_> I'll fix.
20090107 18:36:02< Shadow_Master> ahhh
20090107 18:37:25< ESR_> Any other iffy strings before I commit?
20090107 18:37:31< Shadow_Master> ESR_: #: data/campaigns/Liberty/scenarios/08_Glory.cfg:920  "Fighting by your side *is* the most honorable thing I *have done*"... this is correct English?
20090107 18:38:03< ESR_> Yes.
20090107 18:38:13< Shadow_Master> okay, that's the end of his PM
20090107 18:39:50< Shadow_Master> if I find something else while checking the .po, I'll tell you
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20090107 18:48:36< Shadow_Master> I 'll be on my bed digesting translations, so bye for now.
20090107 18:53:50< CIA-53> esr * r32009 /trunk/data/campaigns/Liberty/scenarios/07_The_Hunters.cfg: Another usage fix for better translation.
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20090107 19:17:13< Sirp> Hello.
20090107 19:20:05< boucman> hey
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20090107 20:20:16< CIA-53> ivanovic * r32010 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth-nr/de.po wesnoth-sotbe/de.po): updated German translation
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20090107 21:23:23< Patterner> hmmm... a brown spider knockback moved an assassin on an unwalkable chasm... don't worry, he can float...
20090107 21:23:59< Sirp> knockback?
20090107 21:25:18< Patterner> Special ability of brown spiders: "when a unit is hit with a knockback attack, it is pushed one hex away from the attacker"
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20090107 21:29:30< Sirp> well I'm guessing (hoping) this is some kind of WML fu. :)
20090107 21:29:39< Sirp> I mean that's not a core game ability, is it?
20090107 21:29:46< Sirp> and what happens if there's another unit behind them?
20090107 21:29:51< Sirp> or if they're at the border of the map?
20090107 21:30:03< Sirp> or (as in this case!) they can't move onto the hex they are knocked back onto
20090107 21:30:06< boucman> i'm pretty sure it's wml
20090107 21:31:02< zookeeper> yep
20090107 21:32:25< zookeeper> Sirp, the unit is supposed to not move if it normally couldn't (impassable or already has existing unit). or at least that was the idea in all versions i've ever intended or written, which might not be relevant.
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20090107 21:33:21< Patterner> "of memories past: timely arrival"
20090107 21:33:28< Patterner> (which is impossible to win...)
20090107 21:33:32 * Sirp thinks the unit shouldn't move if there's another unit behind, but it should be killed if it's knocked into immovable terrain. :)
20090107 21:33:56< Patterner> if there's a unit behind the knockbackee nothing happens.
20090107 21:33:57< Rrenys> the unit behind should be killed!
20090107 21:34:03 * Rrenys votes for more corpses
20090107 21:34:04< Patterner> that would be evil
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20090107 21:34:35< Patterner> well, a unit could die if knocked into a chasm...
20090107 21:34:45< Patterner> unless it can float like assassins :P
20090107 21:35:21< zookeeper> no, the unit should be left hanging from the ledge and one hit regardless of damage would then drop and kill it!
20090107 21:35:28< zookeeper> KISS!
20090107 21:36:11< Rrenys> the chasm should change to grassland.
20090107 21:36:13< zookeeper> and any unit attacking it has a 10% chance of falling down itself if it misses
20090107 21:36:24< Patterner> unless the unit's name is MacGyver and has chewing gum, a twig and three pebbles.
20090107 21:36:31< Rrenys> oh! the unit would quickly build a bridge over the chasm!
20090107 21:36:57 * zookeeper runs off to post on the ideas forum
20090107 21:39:08< Patterner> yCIA-53> patterner * r32011 /trunk/src/ (action.cpp): implemented chasm check, only less than 50% of a map can be chasm
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20090107 21:52:08< Kestenvarn> hello
20090107 22:27:19< Shadow_Master> ho
20090107 22:28:15< Kestenvarn> anybody seen this yet?    http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=23551
20090107 22:28:17< zookeeper> -.- http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=330722#p330722
20090107 22:28:27< zookeeper> you have 30 seconds, i'm pressing delete then
20090107 22:29:25< boucman> done :P
20090107 22:29:38< zookeeper> gone
20090107 22:29:40< boucman> Kestenvarn: that's news to me, and that's totally a job for me :P
20090107 22:29:53< Kestenvarn> ah, i was wondering how much of a problem it would be
20090107 22:30:08< Kestenvarn> from an outsiders view, itseems simple to have the game NOT do something
20090107 22:31:02< boucman> Kestenvarn: should be fairly easy, yes...
20090107 22:31:16< boucman> but after the bug I'm currently hunting :P
20090107 22:31:57< Kestenvarn> heh
20090107 22:32:34< thespaceinvader> kitty_: there?
20090107 22:32:49< kitty_> hello thespaceinvader 
20090107 22:32:56< thespaceinvader> hey kitty
20090107 22:33:08< thespaceinvader> did you say you wanted the troll whelp pic committed?
20090107 22:33:16< kitty_> yup
20090107 22:33:23< Kestenvarn> the one with the orange eyes?
20090107 22:33:23< kitty_> if you have time...
20090107 22:33:35< kitty_> the last one in the thread
20090107 22:33:45< thespaceinvader> if so, does the big version need it's whitespace extending to 400x on the right, or is it ok the size it is currently?
20090107 22:34:02< thespaceinvader> if the latter, i'll get it put up
20090107 22:34:25< kitty_> i think i gave mordante portraits under 400px and he din't complain - thus i think it should be ok
20090107 22:34:32< kitty_> i hope
20090107 22:35:02< Shadow_Master> kitty_: um.. some portraits don't look quite good.
20090107 22:35:09< Shadow_Master> e.g. scout's sizse against the Champion
20090107 22:35:14< Kestenvarn> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/download/file.php?id=26076&t=1
20090107 22:35:15< Kestenvarn> ?
20090107 22:35:35< kitty_> Shadow_Master: i know, i have some of them already resized
20090107 22:35:36< thespaceinvader> kestenvarn: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=328821#p328821
20090107 22:35:47< Kestenvarn> oh, i missed that one
20090107 22:35:52< Kestenvarn> nice
20090107 22:35:55< kitty_> :)
20090107 22:36:24< Kestenvarn> something i dont understand though
20090107 22:36:35< kitty_> what?
20090107 22:36:46< Kestenvarn> when people post the transparent large portraits, they're always drker than the normal portraits
20090107 22:36:55< Shadow_Master> (I am speaking about elves, and ideed this time I left my brain in the bathfroom)f
20090107 22:37:19< kitty_> Kestenvarn:  it's the evil forum - click them
20090107 22:37:26< Kestenvarn> oh
20090107 22:37:39< Kestenvarn> was gonna say, that was happening with all of the large ones
20090107 22:38:16< kitty_> Shadow_Master: i already started resizing them, but the guy on the horse will always be higher than the other ones...
20090107 22:39:18< Shadow_Master> kitty_: and wider?
20090107 22:40:08< kitty_> yes, if they have approx the same head size, the horse will be wider than the elf
20090107 22:40:41< Shadow_Master> I was thinking on the guy, not the whole portrait actually
20090107 22:41:00< kitty_> he will be smaller in the next release
20090107 22:41:40< kitty_> and thespaceinvader i saw you commited the iron mauler will he be used as iron mauler only or as shocktrooper, too?
20090107 22:43:27< thespaceinvader> o cock i wired it to the level 3 and not the level 2, didn't i?  
20090107 22:43:37< thespaceinvader> i'll fix that in this commit
20090107 22:44:21< kitty_> i don't know where i can see as what he will be used...
20090107 22:45:17< thespaceinvader> pardon?
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20090107 22:46:09< kitty_> can i see as what the portrait will be used if i view it in trunk?
20090107 22:46:24< kitty_> arg, excuse my poor english
20090107 22:46:26< thespaceinvader> i don't think so
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20090107 22:46:33< zookeeper> data/core/units/human-loyalists/ and the appropriate .cfg
20090107 22:46:45< thespaceinvader> I wired it in to the level 3 iron mauler but not the level 2
20090107 22:46:45< kitty_> oh.
20090107 22:47:00< zookeeper> should be wired to the shock trooper too
20090107 22:47:06< thespaceinvader> i'm gonna put it into the level 2 as well, and if another one gets done for the level 3, it can be fixed up
20090107 22:47:13< zookeeper> yep
20090107 22:51:59< CIA-53> loonycyborg * r32011 /trunk/projectfiles/ (5 files in 4 dirs): 
20090107 22:51:59< CIA-53> Committed McShark's projectfiles update.
20090107 22:51:59< CIA-53> VC9: removed all .hpp-files because they are included if needed.
20090107 22:52:41< CIA-53> thespaceinvader * r32012 /trunk/data/core/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Add Kitty's Troll Whelp portrait, and wire LordBob's Iron Mauler into the Shock Trooper.
20090107 22:52:57< CIA-53> boucman * r32013 /trunk/src/network_worker.cpp: (log message trimmed)
20090107 22:52:57< CIA-53> make the reading-loop in network_worker check to see if the socket has been
20090107 22:52:57< CIA-53> interrupted. A very long read could make the disconnect() time out before the
20090107 22:52:57< CIA-53> reading was done, forcing a disconnect(force=true) which cleans-up everything
20090107 22:52:58< CIA-53> with little consideration to what is actually going on. Now the reader thread
20090107 22:53:00< CIA-53> will leave before the time-out. Forced disconnect might still cause the crash,
20090107 22:53:02< CIA-53> but there is little reason for them to happen now. Sirp I would be gratefull for
20090107 22:53:24< ilor_> loonycyborg: why remove the header files?
20090107 22:53:49< loonycyborg> ilor_: No idea. Ask McShark :)
20090107 22:54:06< ilor_> loonycyborg: I'll be reverting that bit I guess
20090107 22:54:25< loonycyborg> Though I think that it has some functionality for sourcefile scanning.
20090107 22:54:31< loonycyborg> *may have
20090107 22:54:38< Kestenvarn> hmm, althurin actually looks good with the darkening
20090107 22:54:40< ilor_> loonycyborg: sure, it compiles without it. but yeah precisely, it will make life harder
20090107 22:55:09< loonycyborg> ilor_: I mean adding header files to the project automatically based on scanning.
20090107 22:55:11< ilor_> "find $text in solution" and "find all references to symbol $text" are two features that will stop work
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20090107 22:56:13< loonycyborg> Though I don't know much about visual studio. It was *long* time since I toyed around with it.
20090107 23:04:17< ilor_> loonycyborg: find references to symbol works, find in solution obviously doesn't. I'll wait for McShark to reply in the forums before reverting, though
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20090107 23:26:47< boucman> kitty_: that skelly is amazing
20090107 23:26:59< kitty_> :) thanks
20090107 23:27:17< boucman> i've replied with some nitpicks, but you are as amazing as usual...
20090107 23:27:29< CIA-53> jhinrichs * r32014 /trunk/ (changelog src/replay_controller.cpp): Fixes bug #11890 (replays can't be played if there are empty starting positions).
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20090107 23:29:04< Shadow_Master> what kelly?
20090107 23:29:07< Shadow_Master> *s
20090107 23:29:33< Shadow_Master> after some bad wifi disconnects, firefox doesn't want to allow me toload any www.wesnoth.org page
20090107 23:30:33-!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-24-126-133-155.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090107 23:31:48< kitty_> boucman: it was meant as an exaggerated pose and he will "carry" a magical effect something... but i'll correct the humerus' shape a bit.
20090107 23:32:16< Sapient> loonycyborg: ok, I rebuilt boost
20090107 23:32:22< Sapient> now I don't know which lib to use
20090107 23:32:30< boucman> kitty_: I expected that, but I wanted to point that whatever he hold will seem "material" and "heavy"
20090107 23:32:39< boucman> not sure what effect you had in mind
20090107 23:32:39< Sapient> 1)  gcc-mingw-3.4.5\release
20090107 23:32:51< Sapient> 2) gcc-mingw-3.4.5\release\link-static
20090107 23:32:53< kitty_> boucman: point taken 
20090107 23:33:04< Sapient> 3) gcc-mingw-3.4.5\release\link-static\runtime-link-static
20090107 23:33:17< Sapient> 4) gcc-mingw-3.4.5\release\link-static\runtime-link-static\threading-multi
20090107 23:33:33< Sapient> 5) gcc-mingw-3.4.5\release\link-static\threading-multi
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20090107 23:33:53< Sapient> 6) gcc-mingw-3.4.5\release\threading-multi
20090107 23:34:12< Sapient> so which one?
20090107 23:34:54< Sapient> Sirp: there?
20090107 23:35:36< Sapient> since I have six of them, I guess I could roll a die
20090107 23:35:57< Shadow_Master> can someone lend me their brain?
20090107 23:36:05< Sirp> Sapient: hmmm?
20090107 23:36:24< Sapient> Sirp: which boost library should I use for Wesnoth?
20090107 23:36:32< ilor_> Shadow_Master: I'd gladly swap with you. I have a Spanish test (basics) tomorrow ;)
20090107 23:36:33< Sapient> I built the six above
20090107 23:37:07< Sirp> Sapient: 6 sounds good
20090107 23:37:13< Sapient> ok, thanks
20090107 23:37:36< boucman> Shadow_Master: what for ?
20090107 23:38:14< Sirp> Sapient: this is merely a vague guess though. :)
20090107 23:38:39< Sapient> well, that's better than rolling dice
20090107 23:38:44< Sapient> usually ;)
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20090107 23:44:16< Sapient> now something really odd.... the dll I just built is dated 3/8/2008
20090107 23:46:01< Shadow_Master> boucman: doing things correctly
20090107 23:46:17< boucman> ok, mine won't help you
20090107 23:46:24< Shadow_Master> no?
20090107 23:47:58< Shadow_Master> Sapient: whjat is the problem?
20090107 23:48:04< Sapient> I guess bjam --clean didn't actually do anything
20090107 23:48:35< Sapient> Shadow_Master: my development environment is posessed by demons
20090107 23:48:56< Shadow_Master> play IftU and they will be gone
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20090107 23:49:08< boucman> Sapient: use white mages
20090107 23:49:32< Shadow_Master> :]
20090107 23:49:34< Sapient> I am feeling too chaotic to use holy damage right now :p
20090107 23:49:44< Shadow_Master> white mages could no nothing against demons, actually
20090107 23:49:55< Shadow_Master> they are only good at crushing undead, no more
20090107 23:50:52< CIA-53> ivanovic * r32015 /trunk/ (16 files in 15 dirs): updated Czech translation
20090107 23:51:22< Ivanovic> i am off to bed now, n8
20090107 23:52:05< boucman> night all
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20090107 23:52:18< Shadow_Master> wesbot seen mordante
20090107 23:52:18< wesbot> Shadow_Master: The person with the nick Mordante last spoke 1d 1h ago.  1d 1h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: "ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Iceweasel 3.0.4/2008112309]"
20090107 23:52:51< Shadow_Master> :/ anyone knows what is his plan to fix the portraits issue with WML?
20090107 23:53:10< Sapient> what portraits issue?
20090107 23:53:45< Shadow_Master> the fact that we no longer have per-unit (noy t per-unit-type) portraits
20090107 23:53:52< Shadow_Master> er, sorry noy
20090107 23:53:55< noy> thanks
20090107 23:54:02< Shadow_Master> *not per-unit-type
20090107 23:54:17< Sapient> man, I didn't even know we had noy portraits
20090107 23:54:30< noy> its a new feature
20090107 23:54:36< noy> by popular demand you know 
20090107 23:54:56< Sapient> lol, everytime you get banned ffrom the MP server it shows the noy portrait I guess
20090107 23:55:04< noy> heh
20090107 23:55:11< Appleman1234> noy: :)
20090107 23:55:21< Shadow_Master> oooh :S
20090107 23:55:58< Sapient> "I hereby banish thee!"
20090107 23:57:18< loonycyborg> Sapient: I'd say link-static\threading-multi
20090107 23:57:34< Sapient> ok, so I don't need the dll then
20090107 23:57:56< noy> I still like that portrait someone made of the heretic being burned at the stake saying "I only wish to protect wesnoth from itself"
20090107 23:58:01< Sapient> does that make it take longer to build, loon?
20090107 23:58:15< loonycyborg> dll is a bad idea for C++ libs imo.
20090107 23:58:32< Shadow_Master> I don't remember that portrait... probably while I was on vacation, or before my time... -.-
20090107 23:58:50< loonycyborg> Sapient: I don't think that static vs dll should matter.
20090107 23:58:51< Turuk> it showed up recently Shadow_Master, but I forget where
20090107 23:59:04< Sapient> ah, I missed it too
20090107 23:59:14< Shadow_Master> I don't pay enough attention to the forums nowadays
20090107 23:59:19< Shadow_Master> so I miss funny stuff
20090107 23:59:41< Turuk> I'll pass along good links to you then when they come up
--- Log closed Thu Jan 08 00:00:01 2009