--- Log opened Sun Jan 11 00:00:42 2009
--- Day changed Sun Jan 11 2009
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20090111 00:06:25< CIA-53> loonycyborg * r32047 /trunk/src/filesystem.cpp: 
20090111 00:06:25< CIA-53> Fixed path separators in path to My Documents.
20090111 00:06:25< CIA-53> Convert path to My Documents to use forward slashes as path
20090111 00:06:25< CIA-53> separators since backslashes have special meaning elsewhere
20090111 00:06:25< CIA-53> in code.
20090111 00:08:55< Sapient> Turuk: are you in favor of asking TrashMan to stop posting in  Art Contributions forum for the next month?
20090111 00:09:04< Turuk> yes, please
20090111 00:09:13< Turuk> his aww purdy comment about did it for me
20090111 00:09:17< Sapient> ok, I'll send him the PM
20090111 00:09:39< Turuk> ok, thanks, I was going to if he decided to continue his line of thought
20090111 00:13:42< loonycyborg> ilor: care to test whether r32047 doesn't break on native windows?
20090111 00:13:53 * loonycyborg tested using wine
20090111 00:14:10< ilor> loonycyborg: can't test atm
20090111 00:17:59< grzywacz> night
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20090111 00:21:53< loonycyborg> Anyway, currently location to prefsdir is set using native encoding on windows. File operation work splendidly since they appear to use native too.
20090111 00:22:31< loonycyborg> But once you try to display the path in error message you get an exception about invalid utf8 sequence.
20090111 00:22:40< CIA-53> zookeeper * r32048 /trunk/data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/07a.The_Crossing.cfg: Fixed dorky filtering bugs.
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20090111 00:24:37 * loonycyborg hopes that not many windows users have non-ascii chars in path to My Documents
20090111 00:25:07< Shadow_Master> I am sure many have.
20090111 00:27:30< loonycyborg> Then they'll have to live without error messages :P
20090111 00:28:48< Shadow_Master> at least in Windows XP, those directories ' n maes are all localized
20090111 00:28:52< Shadow_Master> in the file system
20090111 00:29:07< loonycyborg> They aren't for me.
20090111 00:29:20< Shadow_Master> in Windows  Vista they are in the  English language  and presented to the user localized via desktop.ini
20090111 00:29:38< Shadow_Master> I do not know anything about XP SP3.
20090111 00:29:58< Shadow_Master> it would not be the first time they introduce critical changes to a service pack
20090111 00:30:03< Shadow_Master> *enormous
20090111 00:30:07< loonycyborg> Yet another thing that Vista does right :)
20090111 00:30:53< Shadow_Master> it took them way too much time to learn.
20090111 00:32:18< loonycyborg> Most likely path to My Documents isn't localized for me because I use MUI ;)
20090111 00:39:33< Sapient> Turuk -- moved your split to the mod forum
20090111 00:39:44< Turuk> thanks, I wish I could do that, there's where I would have put it
20090111 00:40:12< Shadow_Master> split, move :P
20090111 00:40:19< Turuk> I do not have permissions
20090111 00:40:22< Turuk> only devs do
20090111 00:40:30< Shadow_Master> IIRC you can select the target topic for splitting
20090111 00:40:32< Turuk> the Sith are not on that forum
20090111 00:40:40< Shadow_Master> Turuk: you should have permission!
20090111 00:40:46< Shadow_Master> Iva	pling pling
20090111 00:40:53< Shadow_Master> ew.
20090111 00:41:13< Sapient> hmm... yeah, I guess Sith should be able to split and/or move to the mod forums
20090111 00:41:21< Turuk> well I appreciate the vote of confidence, but that is up to Ivanovic/other devs
20090111 00:41:23< Sapient> afterall, it's the best place for spams
20090111 00:41:32 * Ivanovic is off to bed now, so no request from eg Shadow_Master will be answered within the next hours (at least not by me)
20090111 00:41:50< Turuk> it would be a useful ability for us to have
20090111 00:41:56< Turuk> and it's not as if we will cause havoc
20090111 00:42:03< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic:  Turuk  says that he can't work on the mod forum
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20090111 00:42:24 * Shadow_Master raioses closed hand
20090111 00:42:26< Ivanovic> he can't moderate the mod forum, that is correct
20090111 00:42:38< Sapient> the dark side has made him hungry for more powers ;)
20090111 00:42:40< Shadow_Master> and he cannot move topics to there then?
20090111 00:42:41< Ivanovic> since i guess that we do not have to be moderated
20090111 00:42:47< Ivanovic> he can move stuff there
20090111 00:42:58< Shadow_Master> Turuk: um.
20090111 00:43:02< Turuk> it'd told me before that I cannot, but I will give it a try
20090111 00:43:07< Ivanovic> at least he should be able to do so
20090111 00:43:25< Ivanovic> anyway, i am off to bed now and will not have a look at it in the next 8 hours!
20090111 00:43:27< Ivanovic> ;)
20090111 00:43:40< Shadow_Master> we need to summon cycholka for that then?
20090111 00:43:45< Shadow_Master> pfff.
20090111 00:44:10< Turuk> ah ha
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20090111 00:44:14< Turuk> found the issue
20090111 00:44:20 * Shadow_Master hopes that the forum doesn't recieve a horde of spammy advertisements for the time being
20090111 00:45:27< Turuk> it was a matter of not moving out to the overall forum view and not the thread itself
20090111 00:45:40< Turuk> I cannot split posts into a new topic in the mod forum
20090111 00:45:49< Turuk> but I can split them into a new topic, and then move that new topic to the mod forum
20090111 00:46:05< Sapient> Turuk: if there's a spam advertizement for WOW gold or something like that, then feel free to move it in the mod forum and an admin will issue a ban
20090111 00:46:05< Shadow_Master> unless they are chocolate advertisements, that is
20090111 00:46:13< Shadow_Master> SSH lag...
20090111 00:46:33< Turuk> duly noted Sapient, thank you.... but not after first taking advantage of the offer right? ;)
20090111 00:46:51< Sapient> otherwise, don't move random idiotic stuff in there since it just clutters it up
20090111 00:47:01< Turuk> understood
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20090111 00:48:09< Shadow_Master> moving your probe back to its place
20090111 00:48:15< Sapient> ah, you play WOW?
20090111 00:48:16< Turuk> thank you, I just needed to test it out
20090111 00:48:23< Turuk> haha not anymore, though I used to
20090111 00:48:27 * Turuk is not ashamed of his past
20090111 00:49:33< Sapient> http://games.slashdot.org/games/06/10/18/1330201.shtml
20090111 00:49:58< Sapient> the comments on that article are great
20090111 00:51:21< Turuk> the article is self is very true
20090111 00:51:30< Turuk> it destroys anything else you would do with your life
20090111 00:51:51< Turuk> I stopped playing because I did not want to spend 6 hours running through an imaginary dungeon with random people only to have someone steal the whole point of me playing ;)
20090111 00:53:09< Shadow_Master> can't they write an article on the need of people nowadays to watch "funny" videos?
20090111 00:53:36< Turuk> the one that hits home with me the most are the family/friends/significant other comments
20090111 00:53:59< Turuk> we had a kid who admitted his girlfriend would break up with him if he skipped out on a date one more time to play.... and he did
20090111 00:55:06< Shadow_Master> the local  TV stations are imitiating YouTube and the whole Internet deadbrain syndrome
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20090111 00:57:25< Turuk> you would think some of these comments were people getting off of drugs
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20090111 01:17:08< Sapient> Shadow_Master: I am having trouble analyzing the crash still
20090111 01:17:28< shikadibot_> ha ha
20090111 01:17:30< Sapient> would appreciate it if someone who has valgrind could try it out
20090111 01:18:00< Sapient> the bt seems unrelated to the source of memory corruption
20090111 01:18:27< Sapient> so I'm trying to pare down your wml into smaller and smaller pieces until I get a minimalistic crash test
20090111 01:18:41< Sapient> unfortunately this takes a long time on my slow laptop
20090111 01:21:14 * Shadow_Master wishes he could figure out the contents  of valgrind(1)
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20090111 01:22:08< Turuk> ooo good a bug
20090111 01:22:26< Sapient> an evil bug
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20090111 01:22:42< Turuk> in THoT no less ;)
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20090111 01:25:20< Sapient> hmm
20090111 01:25:27< Sapient> this part looks suspicious
20090111 01:25:28< Sapient> 						[set_variable]
20090111 01:25:28< Sapient> 							name="hivespawn_gen.type"
20090111 01:25:28< Sapient> 							rand="E2 Shaxthal Drone"
20090111 01:25:28< Sapient> 						[/set_variable]
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20090111 01:47:14< Shadow_Master> Sapient: in other news... _:P 
20090111 01:47:25< Shadow_Master> I fixed the WML; now the respawns work
20090111 01:47:43< Shadow_Master> and I haven't been able to reproduce the crash since I took out the [command]s, thouh; before fixing the WML
20090111 01:48:09< Sapient> that is good for IftU, but I am still hunting the crash
20090111 01:48:16< Shadow_Master> okay :)
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20090111 01:51:38< Sapient> AttributeError: 'WmlIterator' object has no attribute 'printError'
20090111 01:51:47< Sapient> dang, now who broke it?
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20090111 01:52:53 * Shadow_Master didn't Shadow_Master doesn't touch sneaky snakes
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20090111 01:55:25< Shadow_Master> thespaceinvader: has this been a good day for you? :]
20090111 01:57:01< thespaceinvader> well, in terms of artwork, yes
20090111 01:57:05< thespaceinvader> revising, less so
20090111 01:59:18< Shadow_Master> :/
20090111 01:59:31< Shadow_Master> okay, my day was awful anyway.
20090111 01:59:49< CIA-53> sapient * r32049 /trunk/data/tools/wesnoth/wmliterator.py: 
20090111 01:59:49< CIA-53> fix wmliterator.py:
20090111 01:59:49< CIA-53> - AttributeError: 'WmlIterator' object has no attribute 'printError'
20090111 01:59:49< CIA-53> - Unwanted spam printed to the console
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20090111 02:03:34< CIA-53> sapient * r32050 /trunk/data/tools/wesnoth/wmliterator.py: remove unused code section
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20090111 02:09:06< Sapient> wow, it doesn't even show filename or linenumber anymore
20090111 02:09:16< Sapient> how gay
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20090111 02:13:11< CIA-53> loonycyborg * r32051 /trunk/scons/install.py: Fixed "scons install" with gui=tiny.
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20090111 02:15:38< Shadow_Master> shikadibot: log 30641
20090111 02:15:42< shikadibot> Revision 30641 (esr, 2008-11-07 14:07:24 +0000 (Fri, 07 Nov 2008)):
20090111 02:15:42< shikadibot> Greatly simplify quote scanning in WmlIterator.  The old code tended
20090111 02:15:42< shikadibot> to break on multiline strings ending with '"\n', and was too
20090111 02:15:42< shikadibot> (+4 discarded lines)
20090111 02:15:42< shikadibot> Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=30641
20090111 02:16:14< Shadow_Master> Sapient: that seems to be the last revision made to wmliterator.py
20090111 02:16:33< Sapient> yeah
20090111 02:16:41< Sapient> I'm looking through the history
20090111 02:16:57 * Shadow_Master has the history in his HDD :)
20090111 02:17:20< Shadow_Master> git svn is simply great
20090111 02:17:21 * loonycyborg suspects that Sapient is more than capable of tracking the offender even though he uses TortoiseSVN :)
20090111 02:17:44< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: right, he's a ninja ;)
20090111 02:18:16< loonycyborg> Sapient: Remind me: does Tortoise provide access to svn blame?
20090111 02:18:23< Sapient> yes
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20090111 02:21:39< Shadow_Master> and it seeems I am an Aragwaith Longbow 
20090111 02:22:03< Shadow_Master> * Strongbow.
20090111 02:22:27< Sapient> oh... my... goodness
20090111 02:22:41< Sapient> parseQuotes has been raped
20090111 02:22:53< Shadow_Master> oh :O
20090111 02:23:01< Shadow_Master> call the police
20090111 02:23:54< CIA-53> shadowmaster * r32052 /trunk/changelog: 
20090111 02:23:54< CIA-53> Recover a lost grammatical fix.
20090111 02:23:54< CIA-53> Thanks gins from the Spanish translation for pointing this out.
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20090111 02:31:30< CIA-53> sapient * r32053 /trunk/data/tools/wesnoth/wmliterator.py: 
20090111 02:31:30< CIA-53> fix more bugs which were introduced during an apparent refactoring attempt
20090111 02:31:30< CIA-53> - parseQuotes now handles quotes in comments correctly as it did originally
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20090111 03:37:02< Sapient> it does seem to be crashing at random memory allocation points
20090111 03:37:22< Sapient> so... corrupted heap
20090111 03:46:25< AI0867> ugh
20090111 03:46:44< Sapient> AI0867: wassup?
20090111 03:47:03< AI0867> trying to study for something, not succeeding too well
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20090111 03:54:23< Sapient> valgrind does not work on Windows apparently
20090111 03:54:36< Sapient> would any Linux user like to assist me in a simple exercise?
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20090111 04:19:14< Sapient> BTW, Shadow_Master, you can't fire_event on a spawned event in the same [event] where you spawned it
20090111 04:19:39< Sapient> because spawned events are "committed" after the current event ends
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20090111 04:20:37< Sapient> this was needed to prevent some border case issues
20090111 04:52:34< Sapient> ok, the [event] spawning code seems to be causing the heap corruption
20090111 05:01:18< Sapient> and you are spawning a ton of events
20090111 05:02:33< Patterner> assist how?
20090111 05:02:50< Sapient> by running trunk with valgrind
20090111 05:03:13< Sapient> I can give you a file to replace for your data/scenario-test.cfg
20090111 05:03:39< Patterner> hmmm... IftU just segfaulted...
20090111 05:03:51< Sapient> you have a trunk build?
20090111 05:04:12< Patterner> I think so.
20090111 05:04:22< Sapient> you have valgrind?
20090111 05:05:36< Patterner> bfw r32046, valgrind-3.4.0
20090111 05:06:21< Sapient> ok, let me paste the scenario-test.cfg, one moment
20090111 05:06:33< Patterner> /dcc?
20090111 05:06:46< Sapient> my firewall is blocking it
20090111 05:07:30< Patterner> do you feel safe now? :)
20090111 05:08:11< Sapient> the command is valgrind --leak-check=yes wesnoth -t --log-info=notifs,engine
20090111 05:08:31< Patterner> normal or debug build?
20090111 05:08:51< Sapient> doesn't matter
20090111 05:11:07< Sapient> here is the file: http://rafb.net/p/XVia6H41.html
20090111 05:15:29< Sapient> then when you get into the scenario, move the silver mage leader to 9,5
20090111 05:15:42< Sapient> that should trigger the crash
20090111 05:15:58< Sapient> the terminal will have valgrind output
20090111 05:16:11< Sapient> let me know what you find
20090111 05:17:29< Patterner> How do you cut'n'paste without the line numbers?
20090111 05:17:55< Sapient> umm... let me use a different pastebin
20090111 05:18:19< crimson_penguin> codepad.org
20090111 05:18:47< Patterner> "cut" for the win :)
20090111 05:18:50< crimson_penguin> I love that one, because it'll run your code too if you want - but it does also let you copy without line numbers (in a text box)
20090111 05:19:41< Sapient> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=m2f4b50d0
20090111 05:24:21< Patterner> it's running... slowly...
20090111 05:25:23< Sapient> yeah, things run 20-30% slower in valgrind
20090111 05:27:59< Patterner> o.k. moved the silver mage to 9,5. Hidden touchplate triggers...
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20090111 05:28:39< Patterner> stoned elves are not a pretty sight... must be the tree bark :)
20090111 05:28:42< Patterner> Now what?
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20090111 05:31:15< Sapient> does the console show output?
20090111 05:31:44< Patterner> stuff like "Address 0x5584dec is 4 bytes inside a block of size 24 free'd"?
20090111 05:31:53< Sapient> yeah
20090111 05:31:59< Sapient> that's the stuff, man
20090111 05:32:21< Patterner> yes, it shows stuff like that :)
20090111 05:32:29< Sapient> can you paste it somewhere?
20090111 05:32:47< Patterner> can I stop wesnoth?
20090111 05:32:54< Sapient> yes
20090111 05:33:21< Sapient> actually...
20090111 05:33:37< Sapient> I may need you to execute a valgrind command, depending on the output
20090111 05:33:45< Sapient> not sure how detailed it is
20090111 05:34:12< Patterner> too late, I'm a quitter...
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20090111 05:39:18< Sapient> aha!
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20090111 05:39:36< Patterner> http://dymer.de/valgrind.txt
20090111 05:39:38< Sapient> another bug from the ill-conceived fire_event
20090111 05:39:51< Sapient> I figured it out like a half second before you pasted that
20090111 05:39:55< Sapient> thanks though
20090111 05:42:36< Sapient> as I was just explaining to Shadow_Master, newly spawned events are not committed the event type that spawned them has been fully processed
20090111 05:42:46< Sapient> *committed until
20090111 05:43:12< Sapient> the reason for this is you don't want to modify the event_handlers container while iterating over it
20090111 05:43:29< Sapient> however, [fire_event] circumvents that safety check
20090111 05:44:07< Sapient> which causes events to be committed to event_handlers list in mid-iteration
20090111 05:46:57< Sapient> game_events::pump was never designed to be called recursively
20090111 05:48:52< Patterner> if you say so...
20090111 05:49:12< Sapient> I'm going to commit a fix in about 20 minutes
20090111 05:49:25< Sapient> I'd appreciate it if you try the same thing on it
20090111 05:49:44< Sapient> whenever you get a chance
20090111 05:53:31< Patterner> np
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20090111 06:16:09< Sapient> woah, found another fire_event bug
20090111 06:27:26< CIA-53> sapient * r32054 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: 
20090111 06:27:26< CIA-53> possible fix for bug #12824
20090111 06:27:26< CIA-53> - prevent fire_event from prematurely committing new event handlers
20090111 06:27:44< Sapient> Patterner: committed
20090111 06:28:25< Patterner> "possible"..? :)
20090111 06:28:37< Sapient> that's where you come in ;)
20090111 06:28:59< Sapient> I'll be testing it too
20090111 06:29:11< Sapient> without the benefit of valgrind, though
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20090111 06:32:04< Sapient> hmm.. looks like I accidentally committed a few test lines
20090111 06:45:27< CIA-53> sapient * r32055 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: revert a couple of lines of debugging code
20090111 06:47:42< Sapient> yeah, I am not getting the crash anymore
20090111 06:50:11< Patterner> "ERROR SUMMARY: 0 errors from 0 contexts" sounds good ;)
20090111 06:50:14< CIA-53> dave * r32056 /trunk/src/server/ (simple_wml.cpp simple_wml.hpp): made simple wml ordered properly
20090111 06:50:27< Sapient> \o/
20090111 06:50:55< Sapient> thanks, Patterner
20090111 06:52:06< Patterner> url updated.
20090111 06:52:41< Sapient> shikadibot: bug 12824
20090111 06:52:54< Sapient> wesbot: bug 12824
20090111 06:52:55< wesbot> Bug #12824  Assigned to: Patrick P <sapient>  Status: Need Info  Priority: 5 - Normal
20090111 06:52:58< wesbot> Summary: Random bug with WML variables
20090111 06:53:00< wesbot> Original submission: Some WML that is not working properly in any build of thi
20090111 06:53:03< wesbot> s SVN revision (that is, it does not have the desired effect) causes crashes on 
20090111 06:53:06< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?12824
20090111 06:53:09< wesbot> Attached file (1st): https://gna.org/bugs/download.php?file_id=5160
20090111 07:02:03< Sapient> cya later, have fun.
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20090111 10:15:46< Ivanovic> moin
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20090111 11:01:54< zookeeper> umm, regarding git vs svn, how accurate do you think this is? http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1087345&cid=26397529
20090111 11:06:52< boucman> no idea
20090111 11:07:13< boucman> as stated earlier, I have heard no real argument for or against git...
20090111 11:07:24< boucman> so I am totally neutral on the question
20090111 11:09:27< CIA-53> zookeeper * r32057 /trunk/data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/04b.The_Undead_Border_Patrol.cfg: Added a default next_scenario= to make :n not end the campaign.
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20090111 12:42:51< ilor> Ivanovic: around?
20090111 12:43:06< Ivanovic> yes
20090111 12:43:32< ilor> I'm booking my flight now, I take it everything's fine with our hostel bookings?
20090111 12:48:03< ilor> Ivanovic: when are you planning to arrive in Brussels on 6th?
20090111 12:48:17< Ivanovic> yes, the booking is fine
20090111 12:48:37< Ivanovic> current plan is to fetch dragonking at the airport in dortmund at about 1pm
20090111 12:48:51< Ivanovic> then i will need at least 3h to get over to brussels, if there are no traffic jams
20090111 12:49:12< Ivanovic> i will most likely park at the university, so it will take an aditional hour till i am in the town center
20090111 12:50:05< ilor> ok, my flight should arrive in brussels at half pas 3
20090111 12:50:18< Ivanovic> ilor: which airport?
20090111 12:50:27< Ivanovic> the one in the town center, or the one 50km outside
20090111 12:50:29< ilor> the brussels one
20090111 12:51:24< ilor> I'll most likely be returning via the 50km outside one
20090111 12:51:53< Ivanovic> okay, so you should make it into the town center till 5pm
20090111 12:52:23< Ivanovic> at the hostel i entered that we will arrive at about 5pm
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20090111 13:26:21< cib0> greetings
20090111 13:40:55< Soliton> zookeeper: sounds pretty convoluted how he updates.
20090111 13:41:40< Soliton> for one you don't need to have a work branch, you can just do everything in master similar to svn if you like.
20090111 13:42:29< Soliton> also you can *fetch* updates all the time but don't need to/shouldn't merge them all the time.
20090111 13:42:43< Soliton> (push means fetch + merge)
20090111 13:42:53< Soliton> (err, pull)
20090111 13:44:31< Soliton> also you only need to stash local uncommitted changes when merging and you simply shouldn't have those lying around. you commit them and can later amend them and whatnot before you push them out.
20090111 13:45:07< Soliton> or you just have them in your feature branch.
20090111 13:48:19< cib0> loading WML and expanding macros on demand only surely would be a nice feature
20090111 13:50:15< Soliton> so you get syntax errors in the middle of the game instead of at loading? :-P
20090111 13:51:47< cib0> well, it's the price you'd have to pay for better performance =) im sure that could be avoided, too, but it sounds like a lot of work
20090111 13:53:16< loonycyborg> Soliton: That's what wmllint is for :P
20090111 13:53:36< cib0> wmllint can't handle complex macros =(
20090111 13:53:42< cib0> atleast as far as i know
20090111 13:53:47< Soliton> yeah, you could preprocess on load anyway but then the performance win is gone.
20090111 13:54:51< cib0> Soliton: its no problem having macros expanded for syntax checks on startup, as long as only that WML is loaded that is used
20090111 13:55:05< cib0> the expansion of WML on demand is rather to save bandwith
20090111 13:55:47< Soliton> i doubt it matters much with compression.
20090111 13:57:42< cib0> well, the whole system would have to be changed.. right now it seems every single piece of WML is transfered when sending saves, new scenarios etc.
20090111 13:58:31< Soliton> sending saves?
20090111 13:58:43< CIA-53> thespaceinvader * r32058 /trunk/data/core/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Add LordBob's Human General and Marshal portraits.
20090111 13:58:59< cib0> multiplayer savegames
20090111 13:59:17< cib0> when you load a save its sent to all other players
20090111 13:59:36< Soliton> and how else would you do that?
20090111 14:01:52< cib0> well, im not really sure, but there ought to be better ways than just resending all and neglecting what the other players already have
20090111 14:03:40< Soliton> sounds like assuming a lot which might not hold true.
20090111 14:04:39< Soliton> reloading to fix OOS for example wouldn't work then.
20090111 14:07:29< cib0> indeed, but reloading isn't the best solution to that problem now, is it?
20090111 14:07:48< Soliton> there is no other.
20090111 14:08:39< cib0> the solution is rather a more stable core engine and a more intelligent system that avoids games with no unified WML
20090111 14:09:54< Soliton> that's the solution to preventing OOS which btw will surely cost you more bandwidth.
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20090111 14:11:19< cib0> that is, if the server has to manage it?
20090111 14:11:56< Soliton> no matter who manages it.
20090111 14:12:28< Shadow_Master_> Sapient: oh
20090111 14:12:39< Shadow_Master_> that explains a lot of things; but now I don't use that, fortunately
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20090111 14:13:29< cib0> what is so bandwith consuming about checking if certain WML exists, if it does, checking if it's correct with checksums, and resending on demand?
20090111 14:13:56< cib0> compared to sending the whole thing right away
20090111 14:15:20< cib0> well, i don't want to argue too much about it, it was rather a dream and i have no idea how it would be implemented in detail
20090111 14:15:29< CIA-53> loonycyborg * r32059 /trunk/scons/install.py: 
20090111 14:15:29< CIA-53> Rewritten InstallFiltered builder.
20090111 14:15:29< CIA-53> Made it have semantics similar to env.InstallAs and operate only on
20090111 14:15:29< CIA-53> directories.
20090111 14:15:44< CIA-53> loonycyborg * r32060 /trunk/ (SConstruct scons/install.py): 
20090111 14:15:44< CIA-53> Fixed installation of translations.
20090111 14:15:44< CIA-53> Made localedirname option actually affect the directory where
20090111 14:15:44< CIA-53> translations are installed.
20090111 14:15:47< Soliton> well, we do checksum checks now.
20090111 14:18:07< cib0> my idea is something along the lines of not expanding macros, but rather sending and storing them separately and only updating them on demand
20090111 14:19:34< Soliton> right but what do you save there? a bit less repetition in the WML which will then compres worse.
20090111 14:20:01< Soliton> if there is very heavy macro usage that might help, yeah.
20090111 14:21:30< cib0> im someone who rather plays multiplayer RPGs and campaigns and those saves can get pretty huge(i recently had a 77 KB save, though i have compression turned off, no idea whether that affects multiplayer)
20090111 14:22:08< Soliton> 77 KB without compression is huge? :-O
20090111 14:22:23< fendrin> hi
20090111 14:22:33< Soliton> hi fendrin
20090111 14:22:43< fendrin> Anybody an idea how to solve that save releod problem in LoW?
20090111 14:22:57< fendrin> hi Soliton
20090111 14:22:58< Soliton> yeah, don't make AI sides persistent.
20090111 14:23:06< Soliton> save them some other way.
20090111 14:23:10< fendrin> yes, I thought so.
20090111 14:23:14< fendrin> It was so much work
20090111 14:23:28< Soliton> making a side persistent that is not used in the next scenario is just asking for trouble IMO.
20090111 14:24:23< Soliton> alternatively fix C++ to not worry about recall lists of non-presistent players and keep them anyway.
20090111 14:24:51< fendrin> sorry my c++ knowledge isn't advanced enough to fix such things.
20090111 14:25:19< cib0> Soliton: oh, it was indeed compressed, uncompressed its 700 KB
20090111 14:25:52< cib0> Soliton: my point is, 70% of that load is already stored somewhere else on the players' computers
20090111 14:27:18< Soliton> cib0: well, checking whether the other player already has the scenario (and checksums match) might be a good idea but also checking that part of the savegame match sounds difficult.
20090111 14:27:53< Soliton> and with huge saves i guess the scenario itself is not a big part.
20090111 14:28:01< cib0> yes, as i said, i was only dreaming about cool features =)
20090111 14:28:49< cib0> that save basically includes the whole definition of a "building mod"
20090111 14:30:23< Soliton> actually we already check scenario checksums to verify that someone hosts a scenario exactly how we have it.
20090111 14:30:55< cib0> that is nice, i already read about it somewhere i think
20090111 14:31:25< Soliton> it's the "Remote Scenario" thing in the lobby.
20090111 14:31:55< cib0> do downloaded scenarios get saved somewhere?
20090111 14:32:11< Soliton> the question is though when we then find out that we have to send different data to different joining players.. that's probably not going to be better for the server.
20090111 14:32:43< Soliton> cib0: downloaded when you just participate in a game?
20090111 14:32:58< cib0> yeah
20090111 14:33:15< Soliton> i don't think so.
20090111 14:33:45< cib0> guess that would be another cool feature =)
20090111 14:34:07< Soliton> i think you don't get the genuine scenario anyway but it's already modified by the joined players faction choice and such.
20090111 14:35:09< cib0> yep
20090111 14:35:22< cib0> how does the checksum work then, even?
20090111 14:35:25< Soliton> might not be difficult to make it genuine though.
20090111 14:35:37< Soliton> the checksum is done before those modifications.
20090111 14:38:02< Soliton> which probably makes that feature somewhat mood; assuming a hacked client the host can send any modification to the scenario, i believe. ;-)
20090111 14:42:31< cib0> ungh.. i better compress my save, its too huge for gna
20090111 14:42:49< Soliton> might be nice to change it so you first get the pristine scenario and the modifications. then you could save/cache the scenario and also verify the changes.
20090111 14:43:36< Soliton> i think that shouldn't be too difficult to do.
20090111 14:46:27< Soliton> cib0: so were you looking for something to do..? :-P
20090111 14:46:55< cib0> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?12841 <- can someone please confirm this?
20090111 14:47:59< cib0> Soliton: i guess i could do it, i need to work with that part of the code anyway in order to fix MP campaigns, but the server-client interaction there is really confusing there..
20090111 14:48:05< cib0> s/there/me
20090111 14:48:17< Soliton> well, i can tell you what i know.
20090111 14:48:24< cib0> like messages being sent by the server which seem to be never caught by the client
20090111 14:48:32< Soliton> like?
20090111 14:48:55< cib0> or not by that name atleast *looks it up*
20090111 14:51:44< cib0> oh, it was this: network::send_raw_data(level_data.begin(), level_data.size(), player,"game_level");
20090111 14:52:18< cib0> i thougt the "game_level" would be sent, but it seems just to be an internal description
20090111 14:52:29< Soliton> indeed.
20090111 14:52:38< Soliton> it's to categorize badnwidth usage.
20090111 14:52:54< Soliton> the level is in no tag.
20090111 14:53:51< Soliton> usually it's indentified by looking for side tags or something.
20090111 14:54:49< Soliton> cib0: for said change you have to look for "scenario_diff". that's a diff made by the host. it's applied by the server to the scenario and also sent out to other players already in the game. you'd just have to not apply it and instead save it and send that to joining clients.
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20090111 14:58:10< Soliton> you could probably put those diffs in the history_ and send it whether the game started or not.
20090111 14:59:40< Soliton> hmm, though i guess they're applied differently.
20090111 15:00:08< Soliton> not sure if the client would understand.
20090111 15:00:40< cib0> now im confused =)
20090111 15:00:53< cib0> it seems the client already applies diffs in some cases
20090111 15:01:21< Soliton> yes, if you're in the game when the change is done you get the diff since you already have the scenario.
20090111 15:01:39< Soliton> so you shouldn't need to change anything on the client side.
20090111 15:01:48< cib0> i see
20090111 15:03:40< cib0> so the changes would be to store the diffs separately and send them to any new player plus having the client accept diffs right after the scenario itself
20090111 15:04:02< Soliton> yep.
20090111 15:04:34< Soliton> i think it already should do the later when the game started for example?
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20090111 15:12:42 * Shadow_Master is waiting for 64 bugs, 256 feature requests, 8 patches
20090111 15:14:34 * Shadow_Master ... and wonders how much battery he can savew  by disabling SMP
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20090111 15:19:41< Shadow_Master>  thespaceinvader did you commit both Marshal portraits?
20090111 15:20:01< thespaceinvader> one general and one marshal
20090111 15:20:18< Shadow_Master> didn't kitty say something about having both Marshals?
20090111 15:21:06< Shadow_Master> Sapient: um, spoke too soon. There is other code that may trigger the bug (WML code)
20090111 15:25:27< Shadow_Master> thespaceinvader: pling?
20090111 15:25:53< thespaceinvader> shadow_Master: what?
20090111 15:25:54-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit ["leaving"]
20090111 15:26:13< Shadow_Master> thespaceinvader: read above: "didn't kitty blahblah"
20090111 15:26:19< thespaceinvader> i think kitty said the more the better
20090111 15:26:37< thespaceinvader> but better to have one portrait for each level than 2 for one level
20090111 15:26:56< Shadow_Master> um? she compared with the orcs...
20090111 15:27:10< Shadow_Master> but it's your decission  i guess
20090111 15:27:46< thespaceinvader> i think LordBob is planning on doing at least one more marshal anyway
20090111 15:28:11< Turuk> I do not think the second marshal is complete yet to be committed SM?
20090111 15:28:55< Shadow_Master> um, I got confused with the  General
20090111 15:29:35< thespaceinvader> and if a UMC maker wants to use the General as a second marshal in a campaign, or vice versa, that shouldn't be an issue, correct?
20090111 15:30:24< Shadow_Master> thespaceinvader: wel, it'd be nice to keep as much high-quality material as possible in mainline ready for UMC auhtors :P
20090111 15:31:51< thespaceinvader> yep, that's always good
20090111 15:32:03< zookeeper> Soliton, ok, i was just wondering. i've just gotten the impression that git is considerably more complicated to understand and use than svn.
20090111 15:32:15 * Shadow_Master justs hopes mordante ever comes back to life?
20090111 15:33:58< cib0> or unlive, whichever it is
20090111 15:34:06< Soliton> zookeeper: it certainly is since it's more powerful too but you don't have to use all it's features.
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20090111 15:37:22< zookeeper> Soliton, yeah...some folks were wondering whether wesnoth should move to using git instead of svn, i was just trying to research the issue a bit before having an opinion (and no, i don't think i'll actually try using git to form my opinion ;)
20090111 15:37:50< zookeeper> (not that i think the suggestion has much chances at least in the near future anyway)
20090111 15:39:09< Soliton> yeah, i think there is no big reason to move away from svn for now and without a reasonable git client for windows it's not a good idea to move to git IMO.
20090111 15:41:46< Shadow_Master> yup. But it'd be good to move to other svn repository anyway... ;)
20090111 15:42:25< Soliton> if that'd be true it'd also be a good idea to switch the vcs.
20090111 15:42:51< cib0> what problems are there with svn?
20090111 15:43:03< boucman> Shadow_Master: can CIA-53 hand le git ?
20090111 15:43:15< Shadow_Master> hey, they kept me waiting for 2 weeks for my SSH key registration back then, and the recent service problems were really annoying...
20090111 15:43:20< Shadow_Master> boucman: CIA can.
20090111 15:43:37< Shadow_Master> ( #commits )
20090111 15:43:38-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit ["Power failu"]
20090111 15:44:36< Shadow_Master> and Sapient still cannot post to the ML (although he could perfectly create another email account...)
20090111 15:46:09< Shadow_Master> telling us to "remove inactive developers" to solve repository performance half a year ago wasn't very polite either
20090111 15:47:47 * boucman still has no opinion about git
20090111 15:48:11< boucman> it seems tohave everything we need, but nothing extra that would make it worth the change ...
20090111 15:48:29< loonycyborg> Shadow_Master: Huh? How can that solve repository performance?
20090111 15:48:37< Shadow_Master> nonetheless, I also think switching to git would only create unnecessary problems for our windows devs
20090111 15:48:52< boucman> Shadow_Master: do we have repository perf problems .
20090111 15:48:53< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: dunno, i remember they replied that to Ivanovic in a support request.
20090111 15:48:53< boucman> .
20090111 15:48:55< boucman> ?
20090111 15:49:14< loonycyborg> Windows is an unnecessary problem itself :)
20090111 15:49:20< boucman> Shadow_Master: that was not to solve perf problems
20090111 15:49:30< Shadow_Master> ah.. what was it then?
20090111 15:50:04< boucman> we were the first project to reach a limit (64 devs iirc) and they ofered that as an interim solution to get our new devs in until they solved the real problem
20090111 15:50:35< Shadow_Master> hah :/ what will be next?
20090111 15:50:58< Shadow_Master> another accidental distro switch? ;)
20090111 15:51:10< boucman> as the patch monkey I should have a strong opinion for changing to git
20090111 15:51:32< boucman> since it seems to be much better at getting external contributors to work easily
20090111 15:51:41< boucman> but nobody has "sold" git to me yet
20090111 15:51:58< boucman> anybody to point me to a good tutorial/feature comparison/walkthrough/whatever ?
20090111 15:52:19< Shadow_Master> okay, anyway I suppose you can happily assume I am only eternaly annoyed at gna for my (and people on other projects...) registration incident. I am not an authority on the matter either.
20090111 15:52:48< cib0> do you think git is generally a better choice than svn(e.g. when starting a new project)?
20090111 15:53:21< Soliton> depends on the contributors.
20090111 15:53:58< Soliton> what kind of infrastructure you have, etc.
20090111 15:54:03< loonycyborg> I thinks that git is better. That's why I'm using git-svn currently :)
20090111 15:54:08< Shadow_Master> um... I corrupted a local SVN repository I had and I only have the satellite git repos for restoring it, since otherwise I'd lose my most recent revisions by restoring from an older dump
20090111 15:54:17< Shadow_Master> so... uh... well.
20090111 15:54:37< Shadow_Master> (it was corrupted by a ext2 kaboom due to usb failure..)
20090111 15:55:28< Soliton> boucman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8
20090111 16:03:55< CIA-53> zookeeper * r32061 /trunk/data/core/macros/interface-utils.cfg: Removed the hideously bloaty HIGHLIGHT_UNIT macro. Might be added back in later if implemented in a more sane manner.
20090111 16:04:25< boucman> zookeeper: I found a anim bug in 1.5.6 TRoW
20090111 16:04:44< boucman> my hero didn't have any frame when attacking with the ruby of fire...
20090111 16:08:23< Soliton> cib0: if it's just one dev for example simply setting up a git repository is trivial (git init; done) for example while you need a webserver or something for svn, i believe.
20090111 16:08:46< boucman> zookeeper: that particular macro would probably be trivial to add with the animation engine
20090111 16:09:02< boucman> you actually killed and created the unit ???
20090111 16:09:19< zookeeper> ?
20090111 16:09:30< zookeeper> i see nothing wrong with the object that gives him the attack+anim
20090111 16:09:32< boucman> that's how I read the macro you just supressed
20090111 16:09:47< boucman> zookeeper: could you point me to it ? I didn't find it...
20090111 16:10:04< zookeeper> 12_A_Final_Spring.cfg:220
20090111 16:10:38< zookeeper> oh, you're talking of the hightlight macro. yeah, probably it would.
20090111 16:11:03< zookeeper> it was pretty old code, i don't know what i was thinking when i added it ;)
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20090111 16:11:57< zookeeper> boucman, what the heck does "[secondary_attack]: same for the second attack " in [animate_unit] do?
20090111 16:12:32< boucman> could you point me to the corresponding wiki page ?
20090111 16:13:10< zookeeper> http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/InterfaceActionsWML
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20090111 16:14:46< zookeeper> also the [animate] tag should probably be renamed to...uh, something like [animate_other_unit] or [simultaneous_animation] or something.
20090111 16:15:36< zookeeper> (btw, can i nest as many of those as i want? like [animate_unit] [animate] [animate] [animate] ...?
20090111 16:15:43< boucman> yes
20090111 16:15:47< zookeeper> oh. fancy.
20090111 16:15:53< boucman> ok, about the Ruby
20090111 16:16:08< boucman> you have a [frame] with no image= that's probably the problem
20090111 16:16:19< boucman> not sure if the engine should provide a default here or not
20090111 16:16:21< zookeeper> ah, yes. i've been meaning to mention that
20090111 16:16:37< boucman> you can rename the frame to [sound_frame] in the mean time
20090111 16:16:41< zookeeper> it should, and not doing that anymore breaks most animations given by objects, like the storm trident.
20090111 16:17:05< boucman> ok
20090111 16:17:14< boucman> about [secondary_attack]
20090111 16:18:01< boucman> when selecting an animation (like an attack animation) you can filter both on the weapon of the attacker and the weapon of the defender
20090111 16:18:12< boucman> the [secondary_attack] is used for that
20090111 16:18:32< zookeeper> ah, so if the attack anim filters on the defender's weapon, you can use that to affect it.
20090111 16:18:39< boucman> yes
20090111 16:18:55< boucman> as for the [animate] sub-tag I'd rather not rename it
20090111 16:19:00< zookeeper> but shouldn't you be able to also filter on the defending unit, since the attack anim can just as well filter on the opponent and not just his weapon?
20090111 16:19:04< zookeeper> ok
20090111 16:19:47< boucman> because the underlying code has been made very generic in order to be able to use the same WML syntax if we ever want to animate from wml in something else than an even-
20090111 16:19:50< boucman> event
20090111 16:20:01< boucman> (not sure where we would use that, but it's ready if we need it)
20090111 16:23:08< boucman> zookeeper: hmm, yes...
20090111 16:23:19< boucman> not sure how to do a clear suf+saf in WML though
20090111 16:25:06< zookeeper> there's a funny instance of [filter_second] team=Haldric [/filter_second] in TRoW. normally i'd assume that's just a mistake, but since allowing filtering by team in SUF would be such a handy feature, i wonder if someone might have implemented that silently.
20090111 16:25:19 * zookeeper leaves a note to sapient
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20090111 16:31:43< cib0> hm, im just watching that speech of Linus' and it seems git really has some nice advantages
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20090111 17:05:08< CIA-53> ivanovic * r32062 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth-anl/de.po wesnoth-tb/es.po): updated German and Spanish translation
20090111 17:07:47 * Shadow_Master wishes he could watch that speech
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20090111 17:13:35< CIA-53> ivanovic * r32063 /trunk/ (377 files in 9 dirs): 
20090111 17:13:35< CIA-53> pot-update
20090111 17:13:35< CIA-53> regenerate doc files
20090111 17:15:49-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@c-68-49-10-243.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090111 17:17:38< Shadow_Master> aaaaargh. pot-update wasfrg. The revenge of the internationalization manager for the daily Spanish translation updates :)
20090111 17:17:48< Ivanovic> jupp
20090111 17:18:16< Shadow_Master> (hey, as I said, I'm tired too..)
20090111 17:18:39< VladimirSlavik> hello, is there a way to check ai controller in working conditions?
20090111 17:19:31< zookeeper> i think someone was supposed to add it to the test scenario...but i don't think they did
20090111 17:19:49< VladimirSlavik> apart from 1.5.7Low #7 where it dies with some asserts...
20090111 17:20:16< zookeeper> just name the campaign scenario where you want to test it and i'll give you the line to insert to the scenario
20090111 17:20:33< VladimirSlavik> I have no preference
20090111 17:20:55< zookeeper> ok, {AI_CONTROLLER () 1 5,6 ()} inside [scenario] in the first HttT scenario
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20090111 17:23:22< VladimirSlavik> thanks!
20090111 17:23:50< zookeeper> so that means side 1 will get to order sides 5 and 6 around, so it's kinda trivial to port that to whatever scenario you want :)
20090111 17:25:26< VladimirSlavik> hm, does the .7 release work properly?
20090111 17:25:43< VladimirSlavik> i mean the controller...
20090111 17:27:35< VladimirSlavik> If I ad it there, it dies with some invalid wml when trying to enter the protecting menu
20090111 17:27:59< VladimirSlavik> But at least I can see the texts, so many thanks anyway!
20090111 17:28:50< zookeeper> i think sapient committed some workaround fix for the crash some time ago, maybe it was after 1.5.7
20090111 17:29:16< VladimirSlavik> in logs last commit is 1.1.
20090111 17:29:44< VladimirSlavik> Sorry - looking at the message, it is related to gui wml :)
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20090111 17:31:30< AI0867> fendrin: Take a look at LoW:14, the turn limit, objectives and end-of-scenario event don't work together properly
20090111 17:31:50< AI0867> in fact, it's broken on easy and normal
20090111 17:34:44< CIA-53> ai0867 * r32064 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/14_Human_Alliance.cfg: Change a "turn 21" event into "time over".
20090111 17:35:54-!- Shadow_Master_ [n=ignacior@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090111 17:36:14< Shadow_Master_> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23634 <- weird autotools screw-up on Debian, perhaps autogen.sh solves it?
20090111 17:36:37< AI0867> fendrin: I'll leave the string melting/turn limit changes to you, r32064 just allows the scenario to end properly
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20090111 17:42:13< AI0867> shikadibot: log 32064
20090111 17:42:25< shikadibot> Revision 32064 (ai0867, 2009-01-11 16:34:30 +0000 (Sun, 11 Jan 2009)):
20090111 17:42:25< shikadibot> Change a "turn 21" event into "time over".
20090111 17:42:25< shikadibot> Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=32064
20090111 17:47:10< Soliton> anyone seen BlindOracle around?
20090111 17:47:20< AI0867> not recently
20090111 17:47:26< AI0867> wesbot: seen blindoracle
20090111 17:47:26< wesbot> AI0867: Sorry, I don't know of blindoracle.
20090111 17:47:30< AI0867> shikadibot: seen blindoracle
20090111 17:47:33< shikadibot> AI0867: Sorry, I don't know anything about blindoracle
20090111 17:49:11< Soliton> *cough*python dev..*cough*
20090111 17:50:45< Soliton> there is some bug with the ai_manager which he seems to have introduced and i can't really understand how it happens.
20090111 17:56:58< Soliton> the thing is that the default ai is asked whether it wants to be managed and it doesn't yet it is found in the map of managed ais later.
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20090111 17:58:19< Soliton> and i don't see how it could have gotten in there but i guess i'll just exclude default completely.
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20090111 18:07:31< CIA-53> zookeeper * r32065 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/ (6 files): A bunch of little cleanups, mostly TC'ing of [move_unit_fake]s.
20090111 18:09:41< fendrin> AI0867: Thank you.
20090111 18:13:23< CIA-53> fendrin * r32066 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/14_Human_Alliance.cfg: LoW 14: Removed the different time limits per difficult level.
20090111 18:18:36< Soliton> cib0: can you get on the trunk server with a mp campaign to test reordering of WML in the next scenario is fixed?
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20090111 18:21:52< Soliton> cib0: we can also test that unique id bug.
20090111 18:31:00< cib0> Soliton: do i need to recompile?
20090111 18:31:08< cib0> my build is a few hours old
20090111 18:31:49< Soliton> cib0: nope that's fine.
20090111 18:34:02< cib0> it would be nice if it were fixed =)
20090111 18:34:27< cib0> that was one of the major bugs which i can hardly solve
20090111 18:34:36< cib0> Soliton: im on the server
20090111 18:35:04< Soliton> ok, start a campaign? or i can load that save.
20090111 18:36:53< cib0> uhm
20090111 18:36:58< cib0> BUGZOR :p
20090111 18:37:27< cib0> first, i heard someone join my game, but couldnt see anything..
20090111 18:37:34< cib0> second.. let me make a screenshot
20090111 18:38:55< Soliton> hmm, i can't observe your game although it seems to allow observers.
20090111 18:39:15< cib0> weird
20090111 18:42:25< Soliton> oh, probably because of unknown era.
20090111 18:44:25< cib0> weird
20090111 18:44:40< cib0> its not an era with special units
20090111 18:45:43< Soliton> well, i couldn't join.
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20090111 18:50:34< JonW> possiable bug?? playing 1.5.7 TSG sn vengeance Ethiliel dies but i do not get a failed endof sn! should I? seeing as to complete it she has to get to the tree!
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20090111 19:03:59< cib0> Soliton: im back
20090111 19:08:15 * Soliton too
20090111 19:09:17 * Soliton highlights cib0.
20090111 19:10:07< Soliton> JonW: yeah, sounds like a bug post it to bugs.wesnoth.org if you get no further response here.
20090111 19:11:04< JonW> ok... just checking that there was not a bug report for it allready ;)
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20090111 19:17:54< cib0> Soliton: who made the bug report about the order bug?
20090111 19:18:31< Soliton> TL i think.
20090111 19:18:41< Soliton> not sure if he has trunk.
20090111 19:19:20< Soliton> cib0: test your bug?
20090111 19:19:33< cib0> k
20090111 19:25:59< JonW> posted it as bug #12842
20090111 19:27:29< cib0> hm, im starting to think that there is absolutely no way to tell start of scenario saves from normal saves in MP
20090111 19:27:53< cib0> because start of scenario saves in MP even have snapshots
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20090111 19:28:34< cib0> do initial scenarios sent over the network have snapshots, too?
20090111 19:30:10< Soliton> no.
20090111 19:30:46< cib0> i suppose start-of-scenario saves shouldn't then, either
20090111 19:31:16< Soliton> it does sound weird.
20090111 19:32:17< Soliton> cib0: so do you have a mp campaign with some [if]s in them in the second scenario?
20090111 19:33:03< cib0> i reverted my change and the bug is still there
20090111 19:35:07< cib0> seems to be quite a nasty one
20090111 19:37:03< Soliton> cib0: what is the underlying_id that gets duplicated?
20090111 19:37:47< cib0> it does not tell
20090111 19:38:25< cib0> Soliton: what would have the second scenario have to look like? just multiple [if]s?
20090111 19:39:19< Soliton> [if] and [then] which would mess up the WML when ordered alphabetically.
20090111 19:39:52< cib0> how so?
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20090111 19:42:59< Soliton> ?
20090111 19:43:27< Soliton> if you reorder them it doesn't work anymore?
20090111 19:43:27< cib0> what would mess up if an [if][then] block were alphabetically ordered?
20090111 19:43:59< cib0> [if][then][/then][variable][/variable][/if] doesn't work?
20090111 19:45:01< Soliton> well, i really don't care what WML constructs you use the only important thing is that it works differently when reordered.
20090111 19:47:09< cib0> in the campaign we played i did and it never failed
20090111 19:47:20< Soliton> we never andvanced a scenario.
20090111 19:47:24< cib0> not even when the bug was said to be still there
20090111 19:47:32< cib0> we did, it was just the same map twice
20090111 19:47:46< cib0> but different WML
20090111 19:49:01< Soliton> does it have any WML that is order-dependent?
20090111 19:49:05< cib0> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m70d8cfb5
20090111 19:50:09< Soliton> yeah, that should work, i think.
20090111 19:50:31< cib0> it always worked at my side for some reason
20090111 19:51:12< cib0> or.. im not sure i tested with two clients back then )(
20090111 19:51:28< Soliton> the host doesn't care of course.
20090111 19:51:42< Soliton> can we test that again now?
20090111 19:51:51< cib0> yup
20090111 20:04:44< Soliton> cib0: btw, the unique id goes to stderr.
20090111 20:13:23< cib0> i just found the code where the snapshot is added to MP campaign start of scenario saves
20090111 20:13:24< Soliton> cib0: this the order bug description: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20713
20090111 20:13:54< cib0> and the snapshot seems to be just copied from the starting_pos
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20090111 20:14:01< cib0> i have no idea at all why
20090111 20:14:22< Soliton> svn blame and check the commit message.
20090111 20:14:42< Soliton> (git blame if you're lucky..)
20090111 20:17:47< cib0> i wonder whether my teacher would share the opinion that bug fixing is more important than homework :p
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20090111 20:18:37< Soliton> teacher for what?
20090111 20:18:53< cib0> English
20090111 20:19:10< Soliton> well, you're chatting in english here. :-)
20090111 20:20:34< cib0> it's a translation.. english to german.. maybe i can convince her that translating Wesnoth campaigns would be far more useful and fun at the same time? =)
20090111 20:22:01< Soliton> worth a shot.
20090111 20:22:19< CIA-53> zookeeper * r32067 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_South_Guard/scenarios/09a_Vengeance.cfg: Fixed bug #12842.
20090111 20:23:15-!- Sirp_ [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090111 20:23:47< cib0> i don't know why they always make school so boring.. i mean, lots of the things you learn at school could actually be made fun, but its like they think, learning and fun doesnt mix
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20090111 20:26:17< loonycyborg> cib0: Because that way it's easier for them :P
20090111 20:27:12< zookeeper> teaching is hard and it's easier to teach in a boring manner.
20090111 20:28:11< loonycyborg> Besides, teachers must be very bored by the subject themselves having taught it innumerable times already..
20090111 20:28:20< cib0> hm, true, some teachers actually do make it fun, but they are the minority
20090111 20:28:21< zookeeper> ask your average teacher to try to keep you interested and excited by talking or performing _anything_ of their choice. even good juggling would get boring pretty quickly.
20090111 20:29:04< cib0> it
20090111 20:29:30< cib0> *it's a matter of taste, too.. 20 people usually dont find the same things interesting
20090111 20:52:46< DDR> Excuse me, but if, when using the [debug_message] tag, logger="err" outputs text to the stderr.txt, what should I type to output text to stdout.txt?
20090111 20:57:16-!- Thrawnwesnoth [n=nick@pool-71-174-195-201.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090111 20:57:43 * loonycyborg wonders why would you need to output to stdout.txt
20090111 20:58:18< DDR> Where does logger="wrn" output text to? It seems to disappear completely.
20090111 20:59:34< DDR> I am trying to give the user some text, but you cannot copy from inside Wesnoth.
20090111 21:00:03< DDR> So, I was going to display it in wesnoth with instructions how to find stderr.txt and copy from there.
20090111 21:01:39< DDR> I wanted to use stdout.txt because there is never anything in it.
20090111 21:01:56< DDR> ... and the message is not really an error at all.
20090111 21:03:13< cib0> where is gamestate.starting_pos put in a save?
20090111 21:03:36< loonycyborg> Perhaps that's because all logging output goes to stderr :)
20090111 21:05:13< cib0> replay_start i suppose
20090111 21:05:14< DDR> that would 
20090111 21:06:27< DDR> That would make sense in the sort of dysfunctional sort of way I have come to expect from wesnoth.
20090111 21:06:57< AI0867> DDR: to output to stdout, use std::cout =P
20090111 21:07:37< Soliton> make a FR for a logger to stdout.
20090111 21:07:37< DDR> I can't distribute c++ via a WML add-on. ;)
20090111 21:07:59< DDR> Good idea, Soliton. I will...
20090111 21:08:00< loonycyborg> DDR: AFAIK you can copy/paste from some wesnoth's widgets.
20090111 21:08:21< DDR> Hm, I'll see what ones I can.
20090111 21:08:33< Soliton> also you have to turn up the log level if you want to see logs from anything but logger=err.
20090111 21:09:08< loonycyborg> You can definitely copy from text input fields with Ctrl-C
20090111 21:10:07-!- fendrin_ [n=fabi@f051107093.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090111 21:10:52< AI0867> however, you can't copy from the "help wesnoth" screen
20090111 21:11:39< AI0867> which makes getting the 15-digit number into your browser a rather annoying process
20090111 21:13:45-!- Noyga [n=lame-z@AVelizy-151-1-90-215.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090111 21:17:44< boucman> back
20090111 21:17:47< DDR> I'll make the feature request later, my limited internet will not load the gna bugs page...
20090111 21:19:04< Soliton> did you change your network setup recently?
20090111 21:19:52< loonycyborg> DDR: Seems you've caught a severe case of sucky internet from Shadow_Master :P
20090111 21:21:08< Soliton> sounds like you're not able to resolve any addresses but have wesnoth.org cached.
20090111 21:21:09< DDR> I sympathise more with him now.
20090111 21:21:29< DDR> I can do searches on the wiki for tags, and it works.
20090111 21:21:54< Soliton> (wesnoth.org cached)
20090111 21:22:59< DDR> Nah... I can see any wiki page, regardless of wether I've seen it before.
20090111 21:23:24< Sirp_> is it just me, or do other people think that having a dozen sticky threads at the top of a forum is a little excessive?
20090111 21:23:44< Soliton> DDR: still same thing...
20090111 21:23:51< Soliton> DDR: you use windows?
20090111 21:23:57< DDR> Are there "In total there are 33 users online" now?
20090111 21:24:01-!- fendrin [n=fabi@g227033175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090111 21:24:10< DDR> Yes, I am right now.
20090111 21:25:02< Thrawnwesnoth> which forum, sirp?
20090111 21:25:04-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has quit []
20090111 21:25:25< DDR> Bye, going to reboot the modem now.
20090111 21:25:26< boucman> Sirp_: agreed
20090111 21:26:10< Thrawnwesnoth> well, no one reads them anyways, so meh ^_^
20090111 21:27:19< Soliton> DDR: check in the network setting that you have a valid dns server address configured. if you get it automatically then verify it got something sane.
20090111 21:29:06-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090111 21:31:09-!- DDR_ [n=chatzill@66.183.125.196] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090111 21:31:25< DDR_> hi, again.
20090111 21:32:52< DDR_> Whatever the problem was, it was with our router.
20090111 21:34:51-!- DDR [n=chatzill@66.183.125.196] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
20090111 21:35:02-!- DDR_ is now known as DDR
20090111 21:40:17< Shadow_Master> DDR: so you know understand how painful it was at the beginning to manage your add-on's collossal files :)
20090111 21:40:20< Shadow_Master> good.
20090111 21:40:38 * boucman has been studying git a little
20090111 21:40:47< boucman> and I'm not convinced either way
20090111 21:45:01< Soliton> what did you think of the video? :-)
20090111 21:45:01< grzywacz> I failed at committing to SVN using git for some obscure reason. Didn't make me like it more. ;)
20090111 21:45:32< boucman> Soliton: as I said, i'm not convinced either way, but I would gladly discuss with someone with better knowledge than me
20090111 21:45:38< boucman> Soliton: are you such a person ?
20090111 21:45:52< Soliton> maybe.
20090111 21:45:54< loonycyborg> boucman: He is :)
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20090111 21:46:22< Soliton> i'm using git-svn anyway like some other devs.
20090111 21:46:23< boucman> let's do that interview-like then, I post long question, you post long detailed answers :)
20090111 21:46:33< Soliton> right...
20090111 21:47:16 * Soliton goes to hunt some food.
20090111 21:47:16-!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-24-126-133-155.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090111 21:47:28< Shadow_Master> Long question, or many questions? The first sounds really awkward
20090111 21:48:05< Shadow_Master> Sapient: forget what I said about IftU still firing recently spawned events
20090111 21:48:07< boucman> first question : why should I use git... I've used cvs and clearcase, and svn was a great improvement over these, but the CMS work on wesnoth is pretty simple for me (average dev) and I can't really see what distribution would bring me... so what killer feature do you have to convert me. What does git have that svn doesn't and that makes it worth changing
20090111 21:48:20< Sapient> yo
20090111 21:48:34< Sapient> Shadow_Master: no more crashes?
20090111 21:48:55< Shadow_Master> Sapient: haven't checked in detail, but I didn't experience more crashes since I removed the [command] tags.
20090111 21:48:58-!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090111 21:49:05< loonycyborg> boucman: You don't need network for git log, git blame, etc..
20090111 21:49:08< grzywacz> boucman, local commits, real merges with preserved history
20090111 21:49:10< Sapient> ok, the command tag wasn't the issue
20090111 21:49:12< Shadow_Master> neither after fixing the real WML bug, which was... a logic problem with my code
20090111 21:49:19< loonycyborg> This is a killer feature for me :)
20090111 21:49:35< grzywacz> Well, you have the whole repo+history on your HD...
20090111 21:49:38< Shadow_Master> grzywacz: the merging history is lost after sending to svn
20090111 21:49:42< grzywacz> So it's not only log.
20090111 21:49:55< Shadow_Master> or... it is lost as much as SVN doesn't care about
20090111 21:50:03< boucman> Shadow_Master: not sure what you mean, there is a commit history on svn
20090111 21:50:09< Soliton> boucman: killer feature for me is local history. no long waits when digging into older commits.
20090111 21:50:25 * boucman almost never digg into older commits
20090111 21:50:30< Shadow_Master> "Running git-merge or git-pull is NOT recommended on a branch you plan to dcommit from."
20090111 21:50:33< Shadow_Master> grzywacz: ^
20090111 21:50:48< grzywacz> Shadow_Master, I don't. Only fetch/rebase.
20090111 21:50:58< Shadow_Master> boucman: I often do... but why were you talking to me? :)
20090111 21:50:59< grzywacz> hm, merge
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20090111 21:51:03< Sapient> the thing triggering the problem was 1) spawning a ton of events 2) [fire_event] to trigger the premature commit of 3) event_handlers vector gets moved to a new place in the heap, but you are still iterating over it
20090111 21:51:12< boucman> I assume that when you speak of commit it's not the same concept as svn : svn commit <=> git push IIUC
20090111 21:51:30< grzywacz> Shadow_Master, so, um... Supposed I create a local branch to do some changes. The merge it to master. It's not recommended to do that?
20090111 21:51:43< boucman> Shadow_Master:  replying to grzywacz: the merging history is lost after sending to svn
20090111 21:52:06< Sapient> boucman: read my last line ^^^  ;)
20090111 21:52:09< Shadow_Master> grzywacz: that's what git-svn(1) suggests
20090111 21:52:18< Shadow_Master> boucman: I was talking to grzywacz about git branch merges...
20090111 21:52:29< boucman> ok
20090111 21:52:37< Soliton> boucman: well, i hope you realise that i'm not advocating to switch to git so i'll only tell you why i like to use git. i'm not trying to convince you...
20090111 21:52:39 * zookeeper wonders why svn presumably doesn't support having a full local history
20090111 21:53:03< boucman> Soliton: yes, I got that, nobody suggested to swith so far, but I'm still interested in the subject
20090111 21:53:08< Shadow_Master> zookeeper: it is not a "distributed" VCS in design and was never meant to be
20090111 21:53:12< Shadow_Master> that's why I guess.
20090111 21:53:25< grzywacz> Precisely. ;)
20090111 21:53:42< boucman> zookeeper: if you get off the net, you can't use some svn commands, including history... you can still diff or revert, though
20090111 21:53:55< boucman> ok, second question
20090111 21:53:55< Sapient> what about Mercurial?
20090111 21:54:02< Shadow_Master> boucman: not diff between older revisions
20090111 21:54:08< Soliton> boucman: ok, another thing i like is preparing commits when i want to and not when i have a network connection to actually push the commit out. makes it easier to make proper scoped commits IMO.
20090111 21:54:19< grzywacz> Sapient,  I like Mercurial. Works on windows with less problems. ;) Tortoise HG seems to be nice.
20090111 21:54:19< boucman> Shadow_Master: nope, only raw "svn diff" is local
20090111 21:54:38< Shadow_Master> I wasn't asking a question.
20090111 21:54:45< zookeeper> Shadow_Master, yeah, but local caching of history could just be bolted on my the svn client. i think tortoisesvn supports something like that, but i think it only caches history when you fetch it manually.
20090111 21:55:04< zookeeper> so yeah, i didn't really wonder why svn itself doesn't support it, just why apparently not much clients do
20090111 21:55:25< Shadow_Master> Sapient: so, the operation left a major breakage on the malloc space ?
20090111 21:55:56< Shadow_Master> *random and major
20090111 21:56:07< Soliton> zookeeper: space requirements probably. you'd have to have a good storage method like git so you can actually afford having all the history local.
20090111 21:56:07< grzywacz> zookeeper, probably because other clients are built on the official svn libraries. ;)
20090111 21:56:18< grzywacz> ^ that too
20090111 21:56:33< boucman> second question : I'm not a standard dev, I'm the patch monkey... me and Ivanovic handle a lot of external contributions, and it seems that git has a lot to offer to us, but I've seen lot of "git handles mail very well" and very few actual example. How would git make that easier both for me (the real dev) and for our users (patch makers and translation communities) Something tells me that git could be especially usefull for the translati
20090111 21:56:44< Shadow_Master> mangled.
20090111 21:56:51< Sapient> Shadow_Master: I don't know how to explain it better than I already did. vector iterators can become invalid when you add elements to the vector
20090111 21:57:11< Soliton> boucman: /script load splitlong.pl ;-)
20090111 21:57:21< zookeeper> Sapient, did you know that it'd be awesome if SUF supported team_name=?
20090111 21:57:37< Sapient> zookeeper: so I've read in the log ;)
20090111 21:57:43< boucman> Soliton: what does that do ?
20090111 21:58:09< grzywacz> Shadow_Master, looks like I did everything correctly regarding git-svn :S
20090111 21:58:13< Soliton> boucman: avoids your message getting cut off when they're over the limit.
20090111 21:58:33< Shadow_Master> grzywacz: working now? :)
20090111 21:58:49< boucman> it wasn't cut...
20090111 21:58:51< grzywacz> Shadow_Master, no :D
20090111 21:59:10< Soliton> boucman: you wouldn't see it on your side of course...
20090111 21:59:20< boucman> ok, where did it cut ?
20090111 21:59:23< Soliton> boucman: anyway, probably wasn't much.
20090111 21:59:23< Shadow_Master> "... ver few actual example". IIRC the Linux kernel devs use mails for patches?
20090111 21:59:31< Soliton> "usefull for the translati"
20090111 21:59:40< boucman> How would git make that easier both for me (the real dev) and for our users (patch makers and translation communities)
20090111 21:59:44< boucman> Something tells me that git could be especially usefull for the translation communities to work as a team....
20090111 21:59:54< Shadow_Master> grzywacz: consulted with Soliton? :)
20090111 22:00:01< boucman> Shadow_Master: as in "very few articles on the net gave actual examples"
20090111 22:00:34< grzywacz> Shadow_Master, nope, didn't want to bother him yet ;)
20090111 22:00:45< Soliton> boucman: for one it's easy to make patches with git that also include the commit message and are easy to import again into git. i've not done much with patches so far though.
20090111 22:00:54< Shadow_Master> well, try running the git fsck family just in case grzywacz 
20090111 22:01:06< Sapient> have you considered Bazaar version control system?
20090111 22:01:13< Sapient> it's written in python
20090111 22:01:31< zookeeper> Sapient, well, that'd be a "yes" then. that's all i wanted to know :P
20090111 22:01:34< grzywacz> Shadow_Master, worked...
20090111 22:01:42< CIA-53> grzywacz * r32068 /trunk/src/ (display.cpp display.hpp): Fixed naming of a private member to fit the naming convention.
20090111 22:01:46< grzywacz> Shadow_Master, silly ;)
20090111 22:01:47< Shadow_Master> :D
20090111 22:01:55< loonycyborg> Sapient: What can you say about Monotone? It's written in C++ :)
20090111 22:02:06< Sapient> never heard of that one
20090111 22:02:06< Soliton> boucman: and you can bundle several commits easily.
20090111 22:02:10< grzywacz> Shadow_Master, let's see if these are really the changes I intended to send ;)
20090111 22:02:37< boucman> interesting...
20090111 22:03:01< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: why did they give it such a name being written in C++? ;)
20090111 22:03:50< loonycyborg> Shadow_Master: Moreover, why do they have a mouse as their mascot? :P
20090111 22:03:53< Sapient> zookeeper: are you sure that a simple team_name= attribute would be enough, though?
20090111 22:03:53< cib0> omg, my "fix" introduced a segmentation fault? gee, i gotta do this some other time.. away
20090111 22:03:54< boucman> Soliton: and what about translation communities... would it help them, would they need to have a host somewhere, or could they pull from a translation branch or subtree... would they need a form of hosting to be able to share between each others ?
20090111 22:03:56< loonycyborg> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotone_(software)
20090111 22:03:58-!- cib0 [n=cib@p4FD0C652.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090111 22:04:18< Sapient> I think we may want to support more advanced team filtering
20090111 22:04:32< Sapient> [filter_team] [/filter_team]
20090111 22:04:43< zookeeper> Sapient, what could that contain?
20090111 22:04:49< Sapient> lots of stuff
20090111 22:04:53< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: because using the mouse is monotone!
20090111 22:04:56< zookeeper> uh...ok. like?
20090111 22:05:11< Sapient> like [ally_of]  {SUF}
20090111 22:05:13< boucman> we don't have a STF, but it might be an interesting addition to our collection
20090111 22:05:21< Sapient> or [enemy_of] {SUF}
20090111 22:05:31< Soliton> boucman: pulling only part of a project is not possible so far afaik. shallow copies are possible though (one level deep would be like an svn checkout).
20090111 22:05:55< Sapient> zookeeper: this is just brainstorming
20090111 22:06:03< zookeeper> Sapient, right, you're thinking of being able to figure out whether the arbitrary units are enemies or allies when you don't know either one's team_name.
20090111 22:06:08< Soliton> boucman: not sure how relevant it is what translators do between each other.. they can do pretty much anything they want right now?
20090111 22:06:09< zookeeper> s/the/two
20090111 22:06:12< Sapient> exactly
20090111 22:06:20< Sapient> like for a custom faction
20090111 22:06:49< boucman> Soliton: yes, but if we ofer them an easier way to merge their work and working as a team, it would probably be a great gain for everyone
20090111 22:06:54< Soliton> boucman: the more technical minded might use git there or just mail pos around like now, no idea.
20090111 22:06:59< zookeeper> i was more like thinking the usual case where you for example are writing some event-driven ability which should only affect allies/enemies, and you can pull the team name from the unit having/using the ability.
20090111 22:07:10< Shadow_Master> it sounds like a complication for my workflow :/ then again we are only two people translating
20090111 22:07:47< Sapient> zookeeper: right, but that would be difficult in AbilitiesWML
20090111 22:08:02< zookeeper> why?
20090111 22:08:05< Sapient> you could use $this_unit.team_name I guess
20090111 22:08:13< Shadow_Master> rm ~/.wesnoth/save_index && echo ':-('
20090111 22:08:14< Sapient> is that even stored?
20090111 22:08:18< zookeeper> no, it's not
20090111 22:08:19< Soliton> boucman: well, i think not so many translators are technical enough for that. also i think currently po merging is pretty impossable the way the po tools handle it. (rewriting the whole file usually.)
20090111 22:08:25< grzywacz> Shadow_Master, yeah, expecting translators to master git sounds rather bad. :)
20090111 22:08:45< zookeeper> in my secret project one of the most useful things i did was to make a couple of events which make sure that unit.team_name is always stored for all units :P
20090111 22:08:59< boucman> I don't see how the way tools work come into the problem
20090111 22:09:07< Sapient> ah. maybe that's where I got it from
20090111 22:09:22< zookeeper> anyway
20090111 22:09:26< Shadow_Master> grzywacz: did you commit the correct change ?
20090111 22:09:27< boucman> grzywacz: git for non-techies was my next question, let's not go too fast :)
20090111 22:09:28< Sapient> zookeeper: you think units should store team_name by default?
20090111 22:09:54< zookeeper> Sapient, no, i think it'd lead to unexpected situations. like if you unstore a unit which was stored before the side's team was changed, etc.
20090111 22:10:01< Sapient> I just don't want to write a team_name= filter if we really need a [filter_team] filter
20090111 22:10:14< Sapient> that's my concern
20090111 22:10:26< grzywacz> boucman, sorry. :-) git is hard enough for me. ;)
20090111 22:10:36< boucman> :P
20090111 22:10:40< Sapient> if you think team_name= will be enough then we can just use that
20090111 22:10:48< Soliton> boucman: you don't see how rewriting the whole file on a change makes merging a tad difficult?
20090111 22:11:06< grzywacz> Shadow_Master, seems ok, yes.
20090111 22:11:12< grzywacz> Shadow_Master, also, it built on my PC. ;)
20090111 22:11:44< zookeeper> well, anything that [filter_team] could be used for could probably be done using the simple team_name= filter, i think...or maybe not, but i haven't really ever stumbled across a situation where i'd have needed a [filter_team]. is_enemy= in [filter_adjacent] works just fine for me, since basically always you're comparing the ally/enemy status of adjacent units, not far-away units.
20090111 22:11:47< boucman> Soliton: well when you edit a po, you only change astring in the middle, or are you thinking of a different part of the translation process ?
20090111 22:12:03< Soliton> boucman: either way... the question about a good workflow of translators is a general one that probably hasn't been answer satisfactory yet. if we know what workflow exactly we'd like to support we can look into what infrastructure allows us to do that.
20090111 22:12:19< Soliton> boucman: not if you use poedit for example.
20090111 22:12:26< zookeeper> Sapient, of course the perfect solution might be to have some kind of a generic unit comparison thing in SUF...i'm not sure how that'd work or look like though.
20090111 22:12:45< Soliton> boucman: also a pot-update changes things around afaik.
20090111 22:12:55< grzywacz> boucman, .po management is a major pain. I once had to figure out diffs between two files. Ended up writing a simple "diff" in perl :P
20090111 22:13:11< boucman> Soliton: not sure what you mean with "rewrite the whole content"
20090111 22:13:41< boucman> even if poedit erase the file to rewrite it at save time, if you change just one string, only that string should be different in the result
20090111 22:14:10< Soliton> boucman: well my general statement stands i'm not going to try to explain the details to you, you better ask Ivanovic there.
20090111 22:14:21< boucman> ok
20090111 22:14:26< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: what should I do about the .po files' headers?
20090111 22:14:29< zookeeper> Sapient, [filter] [compare_to_other_unit] {SUF} compare=team_name,hitpoints [/compare_to_other_unit] [/filter] would match if there'd exist a unit matching {SUF} which'd have the same team_name and hitpoints as the primary unit being filtered for.
20090111 22:14:31< grzywacz> boucman, everything gets messed up and hashed around.
20090111 22:14:32< zookeeper> just an idea :)
20090111 22:14:40< boucman> so let's jump to question 3
20090111 22:15:13 * Sapient ponders this
20090111 22:15:20< Shadow_Master> I mean: the French translation team mangles them; the Spanish translation team keeps only the maintainers' names and emails; the Germans seem to keep all translators' names and emails in a custom format...
20090111 22:15:33< boucman> question 3 : what about windows 
20090111 22:15:33< boucman> we have lot of non-techies that have commit right, and they manage using tortoiseSVN and other guis... does git have what it takes to handle that sort of users ?
20090111 22:15:37< Shadow_Master> *Spansih translation team _used_to_ keep...
20090111 22:16:20< Soliton> boucman: not on windows afaik. otherwise there are guis but i have not much experience with those for svn or git...
20090111 22:16:38< grzywacz> Sirp, does boost have a library for option parsing (--like-this)?
20090111 22:16:55< Soliton> tortoiseGIT is probably in the works though.
20090111 22:17:02< boucman> Soliton: that would be a blocker for any transition. :(
20090111 22:17:03< Shadow_Master> grzywacz: it does
20090111 22:17:23< Soliton> boucman: yes, that's how i see it as well.
20090111 22:17:35< grzywacz> boucman, I tried to get it working with cygwin. Had to fight with corrupted repos because git would open it's index files in text mode. :S
20090111 22:17:42< grzywacz> *its
20090111 22:17:51< zookeeper> Sapient, take your time ;)
20090111 22:17:53< Shadow_Master> grzywacz: Boost program_options library
20090111 22:18:00< grzywacz> Shadow_Master, thanks
20090111 22:18:48< Shadow_Master> but I haven't used it (yet). I like to burn my head writing my own command line parsers... :p
20090111 22:18:49< zookeeper> Sapient, another thing which would probably solve the same kind of situations would be to allow the use of conditional WML in a SUF, and make $this_unit available there.
20090111 22:18:50< boucman> ok, thx for the talk, I understand all that a bit better now
20090111 22:19:14< loonycyborg> grzywacz: I've made use of boost::program_options in silvertree.
20090111 22:19:18< grzywacz> Shadow_Master, command line parsing is one of the thing's I'd like to see fixed in wesnoth
20090111 22:19:23< Shadow_Master> Sapient: is there any new shiny feature that makes the WML event type's name available to the inner WML?
20090111 22:19:25< grzywacz> loonycyborg, oh, nice. Any problems?
20090111 22:19:28< Sapient> zookeeper: well, there is formula= attribute 
20090111 22:19:34< boucman> I thought there was already a kind of $this_unit 
20090111 22:19:44< Shadow_Master> grzywacz: indeed. The lack of a proper --test=  parsing is annoying and confusing
20090111 22:19:49< loonycyborg> grzywacz: Nope.
20090111 22:19:53< Shadow_Master> --test is just an example
20090111 22:20:02< grzywacz> Shadow_Master, there are more subtle problems out there as well.
20090111 22:20:07< Sapient> Shadow_Master: no, the fired event name is not visible to the event handler
20090111 22:20:12< loonycyborg> It *does* fix arg=val vs arg val issue.
20090111 22:20:19< Shadow_Master> Sapient: would you fix that? ^_^
20090111 22:20:24< Sapient> no
20090111 22:20:30< Shadow_Master> that way, [event]name=foo,bar,baz would make more sense :(
20090111 22:21:02< Sapient> because if I fire "  attack end   " it will trigger "attack_end"
20090111 22:21:17< Sapient> so why would storing it be useful?
20090111 22:21:36< Shadow_Master> suppose that I wanted to execute slightly different code for the "baz" case?
20090111 22:22:07< Sapient> then I guess you need a different [event]
20090111 22:22:19< Shadow_Master> ah, to run before the triplet?
20090111 22:22:35< Sapient> well, yeah; you could do that
20090111 22:22:41< Shadow_Master> e.g. [event]name=baz {VARIABLE we_are_in_baz 1} [/event] [event]name=foo,bar,baz ... [/event]
20090111 22:22:50< Shadow_Master> alright..
20090111 22:23:58< Sapient> that way you won't have to worry about fudge factors with event name matching
20090111 22:24:03 * zookeeper has never understood how the heck gweddry and co are supposed to have managed to escape in "captured"
20090111 22:24:31 * Shadow_Master has never understood why the bunch of cowards escape from Wesnoth in the firs place
20090111 22:24:45< Shadow_Master> so much for loyalty to the Crown.
20090111 22:25:09< Turuk> I need developer input, is this one of the individuals trying to prove to you to switch to python? And if so, should it be left as is or moved to a new topic? His post is nothing but code and he popped in out of nowhere.
20090111 22:25:09< grzywacz> Ok. Any objections is I were to fix our command line parsing using boost::program_options?
20090111 22:25:20< Turuk> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=331681#p331681
20090111 22:26:19< Sapient> Turuk: I suggest asking them to clarify their intentions of posting that snippet or just ignore it
20090111 22:26:37< loonycyborg> grzywacz: Not from me.
20090111 22:26:41< boucman> Turuk: he's not known to me, but I don't see any reason not to let them discuss a python switch
20090111 22:26:55< loonycyborg> *no objections from me
20090111 22:27:00< boucman> as long as it's clear that no devs is supporting it atm
20090111 22:27:03< zookeeper> ilor, are you aware that the editor still seems to have problems with .. in the open file menu?
20090111 22:27:04< Turuk> got it, thanks all.  Just did not know if you wanted that thread brought up again or just have it in a new thread.
20090111 22:27:12< Shadow_Master> boucman: it's an old thread
20090111 22:27:18< boucman> oh
20090111 22:27:28< ilor> zookeeper: yes I haven't got round to fixing the damn filebrowser yet
20090111 22:27:33< Shadow_Master> not Pythonic, rather Rubific
20090111 22:27:35< loonycyborg> grzywacz: Though can you remind me what issue caused you to want to overhault program options?
20090111 22:27:38< zookeeper> ilor, ok, i was just wondering.
20090111 22:27:45< boucman> then you can add a warning at the end about thread res and point him to the other thread in OT I guess
20090111 22:27:49< loonycyborg> *overhaul
20090111 22:28:20< Turuk> can do
20090111 22:28:58< Shadow_Master> should I aabuse Ivanovic again for translation updates? :P
20090111 22:29:21< Sapient> it's sad that he didn't bother reading and understanding the thread before posting a mediocre/poor implementation suggestion; but it's not any violation of the Ideas forum rules
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20090111 22:29:49 * Shadow_Master may be safer asking torangan this time...
20090111 22:31:18-!- Sirp_ [n=me@c-76-102-104-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090111 22:31:43< Turuk> I was more impressed that his last post was in Sept, but he popped in just to share that tidbit
20090111 22:32:00< Shadow_Master> that's called "lurking" :)
20090111 22:33:18< Turuk> "lurking" would mean you read the actual thread ;)
20090111 22:33:22< Sapient> it seems everyone has an opinion about "why wml" and they like to express it, no matter how repetitive or poorly thought-out it may be
20090111 22:34:08< Shadow_Master> I have a very poorly thought-out opinion: "I love WML" ;)
20090111 22:35:02< Sapient> thanks for expressing that ^_^;
20090111 22:35:25< Soliton> grzywacz: sounds good to me.
20090111 22:35:42< Shadow_Master> (I love the WML ninja too!)
20090111 22:35:48< Sapient> ha ha
20090111 22:36:33 * AI0867 throws a pirate at Shadow_Master
20090111 22:37:04 * Shadow_Master likes them too, not sure what the intention is.
20090111 22:37:52< AI0867> pirate-ninja-WML-robot?
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20090111 22:38:05< Sapient> lol, you forgot the zombie part
20090111 22:38:15< governor_> where did all the trouts go?, anyway removed a dead-link to open-soft review from reviews page
20090111 22:38:50< [Relic]> Hello :)
20090111 22:39:32< Shadow_Master> governor_: ask ESR for them
20090111 22:39:53< Sapient> http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/Ninja_pirate_zombie_robot
20090111 22:40:03 * governor_ slaps you with a large trout
20090111 22:40:22< Shadow_Master> i was gonna give you a cookie :(
20090111 22:40:52< AI0867> freenode doesn't allow '/nick you'
20090111 22:41:59< governor_> you was short for Shadow_Master 
20090111 22:42:06-!- Shadow_Master_ [n=ignacior@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090111 22:42:27< Shadow_Master> governor_: exactly
20090111 22:42:36-!- Shadow_Master_ is now known as We
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20090111 22:42:42< AI0867> Shadow_Master: you were going to give yourself a cookie?
20090111 22:42:57< Shadow_Master> AI0867: no, to governor_ for fixing dead links.
20090111 22:44:30< Thrawnwesnoth> hey, KoL reference ^_^
20090111 22:48:02< Shadow_Master> you know, Ivanovic  has this "feature" that he reacts faster to translation updates.
20090111 22:48:08< Shadow_Master> Too bad he doesn't like me anymore ;)
20090111 22:48:56< Shadow_Master> AI0867: it's probably banned for the same reason anything similar to NickServ, ChanServ, Alis or MemoServ is.
20090111 22:49:36< Shadow_Master> or freenode-connect.
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20090111 23:14:18< grzywacz> nice library... program_options, that is
20090111 23:14:56< loonycyborg> It surely beats current wesnoth's manual code :)
20090111 23:15:25< Sapient> boost::program_options you mean?
20090111 23:16:24< grzywacz> yes
20090111 23:16:46< loonycyborg> Sapient: Probably you didn't notice using namespace boost; :P
20090111 23:17:15< grzywacz> loonycyborg, even aside from an obvious improvement, I like how simple to use it is.
20090111 23:17:31< Sapient> loonybot << BOOST_PROGRAM_OPTIONS_VERSION;
20090111 23:17:33< loonybot> error: 'BOOST_PROGRAM_OPTIONS_VERSION' was not declared in this scope
20090111 23:18:24< Sapient> well, looks like loonybot doesn't use it ;)
20090111 23:18:41< loonycyborg> Sapient: geordi doesn't provide most boost libraries IIRC due to silly gcc bug this precompiled headers.
20090111 23:18:52< loonycyborg> s/this/with
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20090111 23:20:16< Sapient> " The add_options method of that class returns a special proxy object that defines operator() "
20090111 23:20:25< Sapient> bizarre, but I kinda like it
20090111 23:21:35< loonycyborg> This is some kind of fluent interface :)
20090111 23:21:48< grzywacz> Yes, nicely done.
20090111 23:22:44< Sapient> this also looks cool "vm[option_name].as<int>()"
20090111 23:22:52< ilor> there are some gotchas about program_options and the documentation is a bit brief, but it's nice in general
20090111 23:23:23 * Shadow_Master :)
20090111 23:23:31< grzywacz> ilor, we don't really need any superb advanced features of it 
20090111 23:23:38< grzywacz> *rbly
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20090111 23:24:12< ilor> well, we might if we want to make the --log-LEVEL=domains stuff dynamic, but yeah
20090111 23:24:50< ilor> one of the gotchas is that the option name syntax is "long_name,l" where l is the single letter name, and if you say "long_name,another_name"
20090111 23:24:57< Shadow_Master> Sapient: how should I got about renaming the "notifs" logdomain?
20090111 23:25:02< ilor> it will assume you meant "a" as a short name
20090111 23:25:03< Shadow_Master> *go.  I hate that name
20090111 23:25:28< ilor> Shadow_Master: seek and destroy. Er. I mean, search and replace.
20090111 23:25:43< Shadow_Master> I'd also like to make it so the messages are printed in the game interface like lg::wml_error
20090111 23:25:54< Shadow_Master> ilor: that's a non-issue :o
20090111 23:26:21< grzywacz> ilor, I've already figured it out :-P
20090111 23:26:24< Sapient> Shadow_Master: --log-info=event(s)?
20090111 23:26:43< Shadow_Master> Sapient: and what will happen with people who worked assuming it was named "notifs"?
20090111 23:27:03< Sapient> Shadow_Master: backwards compatibility?
20090111 23:27:10< Shadow_Master> yes?
20090111 23:27:13< ilor> Shadow_Master: I'd go with "error: unknown log domain"
20090111 23:27:56< Sapient> or "warning: deprecated log domain 'notifs', use 'events'"
20090111 23:28:04< Shadow_Master> Sapient: wml_events ?
20090111 23:28:21< Sapient> I don't see the need to be verbose
20090111 23:28:23< Shadow_Master> or perhaps wml_debug
20090111 23:28:24< ilor> Shadow_Master: are there any other kind of events?
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20090111 23:28:35< Sapient> there are GUI events
20090111 23:28:38< Shadow_Master> Sapient: events sounds too engine-y (in the lg::engine sense)
20090111 23:29:04< Sapient> [event]s are pretty well understood by WML authors
20090111 23:29:21< Sapient> besides, *everything* in Wesnoth uses WML
20090111 23:29:57< Sapient> network, server, gui, unit, savegame, replay, themes, gameconfig, etc...
20090111 23:30:42< Shadow_Master> the macro TELEPORT_TILE is kind of redundant :/ but I guess ESR_  had a good reason for the syntactic sugar
20090111 23:30:48< grzywacz> Save me! I wrote "std::String" :S
20090111 23:30:55< ilor> Sapient has a point. I'd go with just "events".
20090111 23:31:24< Shadow_Master> {TELEPORT_TILE X1 Y1 X2 Y2} is equivalent to {TELEPORT_UNIT (x,y=X1,Y1) X2 Y2}
20090111 23:31:27< ESR_> Shadow_Master: Eh? I don't think I wrote that one.
20090111 23:31:35< Shadow_Master> ESR_: let me git svn blame...
20090111 23:31:59< Shadow_Master> it appears as yours, ESR_ 
20090111 23:32:16< ESR_> Odd.  I don't reacall it.
20090111 23:32:47< Shadow_Master> wesbot: log 16863
20090111 23:32:50< wesbot> esr * r16863 : Add documentation for all but two of the utility macros.
20090111 23:32:54< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=16863
20090111 23:33:12< Shadow_Master> um, wrong.
20090111 23:33:52< Shadow_Master> anyway, I suppose it should be let there...
20090111 23:34:08< ESR_> Oh, so I documented it but didn't write it?  That makes more sense.
20090111 23:34:16< zookeeper> assuming the stats are right, aren't these kind of depressing? http://www.wesnoth.org/cgi-bin/stats/stats.pl?campaign_id=CAMPAIGN_HEIR_TO_THE_THRONE&difficulty=EASY half of the players who started the campaign went on to the second scenario, and then less than half of those to the third.
20090111 23:35:01< Sapient> that doesn't surprise me
20090111 23:35:09< Sirp_> zookeeper: yes, but is it really surprising?
20090111 23:35:23< Sapient> I think it's pretty common to check out the first scenario just to take a look at it
20090111 23:35:24< Sirp_> might be nice to have another chart which shows the delta (i.e. the completion rate of each scenario)
20090111 23:35:25< Shadow_Master> ilor, Sapient okay, I'll go with events then
20090111 23:35:27< zookeeper> Sirp_, well, maybe not surprising..
20090111 23:37:02< Sapient> Shadow_Master: or you could create a "wml" logging domain, and then combine it with all the logging from variable.cpp
20090111 23:37:17< Sapient> I would actually prefer that
20090111 23:37:46< Shadow_Master> oooh. Chances that I get around to it are now < 1%
20090111 23:37:55< Shadow_Master> I may leave "notifs" in 1.6
20090111 23:38:02< Sapient> lol
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20090111 23:38:38< Sapient> also, it seems slightly lame that there is no way to make it go into the chat area
20090111 23:38:42< Shadow_Master> seriosly, I don't feel like doing a refactoring so close to 1.6. I'll just rename the log domain
20090111 23:38:56< Shadow_Master> yes, that was what I meant wiht "show it in theg ame interface"
20090111 23:39:27< Sapient> it's not a refactoring just s/LOG_ENG/LOG_WML and change the #define at the top of variable.cpp
20090111 23:39:50< Sapient> simple search+replace
20090111 23:40:15< Shadow_Master> ah, well...
20090111 23:40:42< grzywacz> Shadow_Master, how close 1.6 is? :)
20090111 23:41:03< Shadow_Master> as close as pizza is to my home..
20090111 23:41:10< Shadow_Master> (around 10 kilometers=
20090111 23:41:33< Sapient> is the pizza also evil? ^_^
20090111 23:41:35< Shadow_Master> but the definitive feature freeze is closer than that :)
20090111 23:41:40< Shadow_Master> Sapient: no.
20090111 23:42:05< Sapient> ah well
20090111 23:42:10< Sapient> cya later, have fun.
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20090111 23:42:34< zookeeper> feature freezes suck -.-
20090111 23:42:35< grzywacz> Evil Pizza. Ingredients: bats, ketchup, hair, cheese burned black
20090111 23:43:27< Shadow_Master> who said bats are evil?
20090111 23:43:35< Shadow_Master> they are cute, even.
20090111 23:43:42< grzywacz> But eating bats surely is evil.
20090111 23:43:53< Shadow_Master> well, yeah. Like eating cats.
20090111 23:44:36< zookeeper> nothing wrong with eating cats.
20090111 23:45:50< Shadow_Master> Sapient: um I have an idea: since the same logdomain will be shared with your code now, perhaps [debug_message] should prefix the notifications with something? e.g. "[debug_message]: <message goes here>"
20090111 23:47:19< Shadow_Master> um, if I add the logger (error, info, warn, debug), it may become too long.
20090111 23:47:31< Shadow_Master> um, perhaps I should rename the tag itself.
20090111 23:47:47< Shadow_Master> um, what about [wml_message]?
20090111 23:49:06-!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe9ff800-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit []
20090111 23:50:43< Shadow_Master> um, I wouldn't be better than Sirp_ as a spokesperson ;)
20090111 23:51:11 * Soliton thinks 'wml' is a good name for that domain.
20090111 23:57:54< CIA-53> shadowmaster * r32069 /trunk/src/ (game_events.cpp log.cpp log.hpp): Rename the lg::notifs log domain to lg::events .
20090111 23:59:14< grzywacz> Yay, there shall be conflicts!
20090111 23:59:15< grzywacz> ;-)
20090111 23:59:25< Shadow_Master> grzywacz: touched the same file?
--- Log closed Mon Jan 12 00:00:05 2009