--- Log opened Wed Jan 14 00:00:21 2009
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20090114 00:36:16< ESR_> Turuk: Which dwarves aren't animating in THoT::8?  Trying to pin it to a unit type.
20090114 00:36:39< Turuk> I believe it is all the masked dwarves defense animations
20090114 00:36:45< Turuk> let me go try and run it
20090114 00:36:57< Turuk> also, about the mage recruiting, that line is in mine as well
20090114 00:37:00< Turuk> but it just still lets me recruit mages
20090114 00:37:09< ESR_> Hm.
20090114 00:37:44< CIA-53> baufo * r32119 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): add option to prevent the password from being saved
20090114 00:37:57< CIA-53> baufo * r32117 /trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): 
20090114 00:37:57< CIA-53> somewhat clearing the multiplayer login dialog mess:
20090114 00:37:57< CIA-53> - added the possibility to provide a password in the mp method selection dialog
20090114 00:37:57< CIA-53> - merged all dialogs that displayed erros or allowed entering the username or password into one dialog.
20090114 00:37:58< CIA-53> - password is now saved in preferences (todo: add option to turn this off)
20090114 00:38:01< CIA-53> shadowmaster * r32118 /trunk/po/wesnoth-did/es.po: Fix my email address and name entries in the .po header of /po/wesnoth-did/es.po
20090114 00:38:21< CIA-53> shadowmaster * r32116 /trunk/data/core/units/dwarves/Runemaster.cfg: Wire-in Pekka's runic hammer attack icon.
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20090114 00:43:13< Turuk> ESR_ it is just the Masked Guardsmen that disappear on defense
20090114 00:43:25< ABCD> CIA-53 seems to have an odd idea of "chronological order" :)
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20090114 01:32:53< ESR_> Turuk: Thanks, that's useful.
20090114 01:34:31< Turuk> Sure, glad to help.  Figured narrowing it down is on me anyways, since I pointed the bug out.
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20090114 01:55:29< Shadow_Master> damn, I missed broodkiller...
20090114 01:56:02< JW1> is anyone in here familiar with the 1.5 pbl format?
20090114 01:56:51< Turuk> Yes
20090114 01:57:07< JW1> I am wondering how to define the EoM so it is recognized as an "MP Era" - how would I do that?
20090114 01:57:18< Shadow_Master> JW1: type=era_mp
20090114 01:57:24< Turuk> tada
20090114 01:57:42< JW1> ok, the image tag also seems to be different
20090114 01:57:49< JW1> or am I dreaming?
20090114 01:57:50< Shadow_Master> JW1: err... just type=era
20090114 01:57:52< Shadow_Master> no _mp
20090114 01:58:10< Shadow_Master> and I don't know what image tag ([image]) you are speaking about
20090114 01:58:10< JW1> ok
20090114 01:58:18< JW1> well, I mean I have the line:
20090114 01:58:27< JW1> icon="units/human-magi/great-mage+female-attack-magic-2"
20090114 01:58:31< JW1> but nothing shows up
20090114 01:58:38< Shadow_Master> JW1: ...
20090114 01:58:52< Shadow_Master> hint: dot png
20090114 01:58:56< JW1> D:
20090114 01:58:57< JW1> doh
20090114 01:59:00< JW1> so simple, ty
20090114 01:59:34< Shadow_Master> oh also: there was a misfeature up to 1.4.x that allowed you to use icon="human-magi/great-mage+female-attack-magic-2.png" instead.
20090114 01:59:57< JW1> what do you mean
20090114 01:59:59< Shadow_Master> that isn't supported any longer. Specify units/ in your image paths (if applicable) instead
20090114 02:00:18< Shadow_Master> I know a few UMC have abused that misfeature.
20090114 02:01:33< JW1> I see - was there any benefit to abusing it? or just laziness?
20090114 02:01:42< Shadow_Master> laziness.
20090114 02:02:01< Shadow_Master> it seemed to be a misfeature brought by some developer when all image paths changed in 1.1.x.
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20090114 02:30:59< Shadow_Master> 02:19 <+CIA-25> espreon * r3295 /trunk/The_Silver_Lands/sounds/cave-in.ogg: * Added cave-in.ogg for 1.5.7 users
20090114 02:31:03< Shadow_Master> WTF?!
20090114 02:31:18< Shadow_Master> err... Oops. this was for #wesnoth-umc-dev
20090114 02:31:27< [Relic]> :)
20090114 02:32:04< Shadow_Master> :O don't smile so much... it scares me
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20090114 02:49:15< Shadow_Master> (is him the Joker?)
20090114 02:50:07< [Relic]> wouldn't you like to know :)
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20090114 03:07:31< JW1> Shadow_Master: why do you keep quit/rejoining?
20090114 03:08:58< Shadow_Master> JW1: WLAN (wifi) drops
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20090114 03:09:12< Shadow_Master> and I no longer have a remote machine available for running irssi through SSH
20090114 03:09:39< Shadow_Master> also, people at home like to interrupt me, so I have to quit a lot...
20090114 03:09:45< JW1> odd - you don't quit umc-dev though
20090114 03:10:01< Shadow_Master> weird.
20090114 03:10:05< JW1> truly
20090114 03:10:15 * Shadow_Master nows goes to inject something to a cat
20090114 03:10:20< Shadow_Master> * now
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20090114 09:37:31< grzybacz> morning
20090114 09:38:33< grzybacz> wesbot: seen baufo
20090114 09:38:34< wesbot> grzybacz: The person with the nick Baufo 11h 40m ago was here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-de with the message: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
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20090114 11:12:53< maccampus> jo
20090114 11:13:31< maccampus> me had wesnod 1.4.5, me sees there is 1.4.7
20090114 11:13:47< maccampus> so me wanted to get 1.4.sieben
20090114 11:14:15< maccampus> but ( & maybe this is importante) i am a Mac
20090114 11:14:40< maccampus> Yett i cannot see any more server app in the new wesnoth
20090114 11:15:22< maccampus> is server app build into Wesnodh 1.4.7 or do i need the 1.4.5 Server 
20090114 11:16:49< maccampus> lot has changed from before
20090114 11:17:17< maccampus> 1.4.6 & below use installer.app to install the game & all it's files
20090114 11:17:30< maccampus> like the sdl part in the library
20090114 11:18:00< maccampus> 1.4.7 does not install but has to be copied to Application Folder
20090114 11:18:17< maccampus> & is only 1 file big , the WEsnoth.app
20090114 11:18:51< maccampus> how do i kno of i can remove sdl now ?
20090114 11:20:45< maccampus> ow yeah , & why can we install onlty one plugin at a time, we would like to select multiple/all plugins for immediatte install if possible
20090114 11:20:51< maccampus> anyone ??
20090114 11:24:28-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@91.108.132.175] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090114 11:25:00< maccampus> hi 2
20090114 11:29:39-!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-188-113.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090114 11:30:37< CIA-53> zookeeper * r32120 /branches/1.4/data/campaigns/Sceptre_of_Fire/scenarios/4_Gathering_Materials.cfg: Balancing for "Gathering Materials".
20090114 11:30:41< zookeeper> (and yes, i know there probably won't be another 1.4 release)
20090114 11:30:50< maccampus> hmm
20090114 11:31:07< maccampus> 1.4.7 is not anymore 1.4.6 alike on Mac
20090114 11:31:46< maccampus> i use 1.4.5 & wanna update
20090114 11:32:16< maccampus> logical i would update to 1.4.7 but that's a no go , but i can update to 1.4.6
20090114 11:36:20< maccampus> Nw if 1.4.7 is gonna be the new way to install onMacs , without any support files needsd. It would be nice to include a 1.4.6 & below uninstaller
20090114 11:36:49< maccampus> specially for those hidden support files
20090114 11:40:05< Soliton> unlikely to happen since the installer was done by a different packager.
20090114 11:40:33< maccampus> ???
20090114 11:41:19< maccampus> Packager = Application or Person ???
20090114 11:42:46< Soliton> a living person in all likelihood.
20090114 11:43:15< maccampus> okay
20090114 11:43:21< maccampus> i just found something out
20090114 11:43:52< maccampus> what belong in the library is now nested in the application
20090114 11:44:04< maccampus> not good this is
20090114 11:44:56< grzybacz> oh
20090114 11:46:02< maccampus> these sdl libraries ( sound , imaging , video) are used by many ported games & some apps
20090114 11:46:12< Soliton> afaik that's the usual way to package on a mac and how everyone wanted it again.
20090114 11:46:31< maccampus> if anyone is going to build them in their App
20090114 11:47:08< maccampus> you will end up with a lot of copies of the same files ( maybe even different versions of them)
20090114 11:47:45< maccampus> While if they got installed in library , they are available for any App that would look fer them theere
20090114 11:48:06< Soliton> exactly, so you need not worry about different versions of libraries.
20090114 11:48:48< maccampus> i thought i would just used the latest for all apps
20090114 11:49:17< maccampus> i remember i had to go get the sdl libs myself at the sdl site sometime
20090114 11:49:28< maccampus> & install them myself
20090114 11:49:44< maccampus> i think that was for Mrathon Aleph one
20090114 11:50:17< maccampus> they did not worry about the version, just get the latest & greatest was the motto
20090114 11:51:22< maccampus> besides , that's the point of the library, a place to piut common stuf in that can be used by many Applications
20090114 11:51:34< maccampus> So applications can be smaller
20090114 11:52:31< maccampus> So only app specific libs should be included in the main application.app
20090114 11:52:39< maccampus> OFcourse
20090114 11:52:48< Soliton> well, discuss that with the mac packager, crimson_penguin.
20090114 11:52:53< maccampus> This would require an installer
20090114 11:53:50< maccampus> So he is the new person ?
20090114 11:55:04< maccampus> What happened to the previous persons work, is that still available to the new packager
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20090114 11:56:46< maccampus> it should be somewhere in the versioning thing you developers use (svr or someting)
20090114 11:58:02< maccampus> I've been told Zookeeper or Ivanovic could help too
20090114 11:58:19< maccampus> So Zookeper care to comment ?
20090114 11:59:25< zookeeper> who told you that? i certainly can't help you with that.
20090114 12:00:20< maccampus> okays  , i was told you was a person i should talk too
20090114 12:00:53< maccampus> So who is Ivanovic ? the old Mac Packager ?
20090114 12:01:49< thespaceinvader> i guessed you might know more than i do in private chat, zookeeper, i guess i was wrong =)
20090114 12:02:35< maccampus> ah , & i was wondering to reveal your name or not :)
20090114 12:02:52< Soliton> Ivanovic has nothing to do with this either.
20090114 12:03:18< loonycyborg> Ivanovic is a former Mac user :)
20090114 12:03:30< maccampus> so i need the Crimson Penguin 
20090114 12:03:35< thespaceinvader> my bad again, sorry, i was looking for who compiled the latest mac version, but there weren't any names in the release annnouncement
20090114 12:03:47< maccampus> i reach him through irc only ?
20090114 12:04:07< maccampus> thx anyway space
20090114 12:04:14< thespaceinvader> no worries
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20090114 12:05:04< Soliton> anakayub is the previous mac packager.
20090114 12:05:39< maccampus> bt he has left the team , or just the Mac part ?
20090114 12:06:06< Soliton> go on the forum and search for mac packaging stuff.
20090114 12:06:08< loonycyborg> He is distracted by RL stuff.
20090114 12:06:46< thespaceinvader> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=287&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=90 this thread may be of use to you, maccampus
20090114 12:10:32< maccampus> So nice Philosofy's i read up there , unfortunally the newversion ain't folowwing them anymore
20090114 12:10:45< maccampus> My personal philosopy is I want Wesnoth to become a well behaved Mac application which looks as if it was intended for the Mac all along.
20090114 12:11:07< maccampus> I also don't want to alter Wesnoth itself, merely the polish so that prefs are in the expected places, data files are in the application bundle, there is an application icon, and standard behaviour is preserved.
20090114 12:12:43< maccampus> This would mean , that library's or frameworks that might be used by other (apps) should be placed in their directory within the library directory & not in the application.app 
20090114 12:13:10< maccampus> So other Applications can find them in the expected location
20090114 12:13:43< Soliton> you're preaching to the wrong crowd.
20090114 12:13:49< maccampus> i see
20090114 12:14:27< maccampus> so i should get a forum account & post my findings ?
20090114 12:14:56< Soliton> yes, or wait for crimson_penguin.
20090114 12:15:18< maccampus> would u advice me to wait 
20090114 12:15:35< maccampus> can we expect him soon ? today ?
20090114 12:15:52< Soliton> probably today but not soon i don't think.
20090114 12:16:40< maccampus> okay i have 12:16 noon here ? when do you think ?
20090114 12:17:12< Soliton> in the evening.
20090114 12:17:26< maccampus> 20:00 CET ?
20090114 12:17:33< grzybacz> ...
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20090114 13:25:39< Ivanovic> hi
20090114 13:25:46< Sapient> hi
20090114 13:40:08< grzybacz> hi
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20090114 14:57:13< CIA-53> ivanovic * r32121 /trunk/po/ (6 files in 5 dirs): updated Hungarian and Slovak translation
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20090114 15:54:18< ilor> hi all
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20090114 16:04:25< Ivanovic> hi ilor
20090114 16:08:53< ilor> Ivanovic: do you want me to remove the new event action I added yesterday?
20090114 16:10:33< Ivanovic> what exactly does it do?
20090114 16:10:56< ilor> it's an experimantal extension of the map mask action, it replaces the entire map
20090114 16:11:14< Ivanovic> experimental sounds really bad to me for a feature freeze
20090114 16:11:15< Ivanovic> ;)
20090114 16:11:28< Ivanovic> maybe export it to a patch and attach it at gna.org marked as "later"?
20090114 16:11:53< ilor> it doesn't affect anything apart from the test scenario at the moment
20090114 16:13:33< zookeeper> i guess the key question is whether the change can break anything in other parts of the game.
20090114 16:15:36< ilor> I'd agree with zookeper (obviously). This just gives scenario authors another tool to play with and can't really break anything unless it's used in mainline, and it isn't
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20090114 16:18:59< Ivanovic> the problem is: how stable is it for using it in extensions?
20090114 16:19:21 * zookeeper doesn't see a problem in that
20090114 16:19:48< Ivanovic> zookeeper: if it is unstable as hell and creates problems when used, it should definitely not be in a stable release
20090114 16:19:53< Ivanovic> ;)
20090114 16:20:12< zookeeper> if there's doubt, the wiki can state that it might not be stable.
20090114 16:21:37< CIA-53> baufo * r32122 /trunk/src/ (game_preferences.cpp game_preferences.hpp): small fix and an explanation of the password remembering function in the preferences
20090114 16:21:41< ilor> the potential problems that I can see is about units/items/soundsources that are no longer on the map. The scenario author would have to take care of them as of now.
20090114 16:22:26< zookeeper> well, that's a problem that i doubt could be solved sensibly with such a feature anyway, so that probably doesn't count
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20090114 16:25:07< ilor> btw, I'm not hell-bent on wedging it in a .0 release, I'm just a bit tired and getting my act together for a revert/make patch/submit etc seems so much work ;)
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20090114 16:53:11< Sapient> the release manager can handle the revert part well enough ;)
20090114 16:54:02< loonycyborg> Provided that he knows what should be reverted :)
20090114 16:54:49< crimson_penguin> so does the mp server rely on other parts of Wesnoth?
20090114 16:55:58< loonycyborg> crimson_penguin: User named maccampus had some questions about Mac packaging.
20090114 16:56:20< crimson_penguin> loonycyborg: yeah, I'm talking to him now
20090114 16:56:46< loonycyborg> kk
20090114 16:58:10< Soliton> what do you mean exactly with other parts of wesnoth?
20090114 16:58:29< Baufo> crimson_penguin, what do you mean "rely on"?
20090114 16:58:38< Baufo> heh
20090114 16:58:43< crimson_penguin> well, I answered my own question - it requires other sources than are in server/
20090114 16:58:52< Soliton> indeed.
20090114 16:58:57< Ivanovic> Baufo: uhm *TOPIC*!!!
20090114 16:59:38< Ivanovic> Baufo: as in: we are in a feature freeze, and you are adding new things all the times, things that got potential to badly break stuff
20090114 17:00:07< Soliton> it was quite important to polish the login procedure with account support though.
20090114 17:00:35< Soliton> it's going to drive people crazy for ages in the next stable otherwise.
20090114 17:01:03< Sapient> someone will need to volunteer for peer review and we'll need some testing then
20090114 17:01:25< Sapient> it's not sane otherwise
20090114 17:01:56< Sapient> you can be the tester, Soliton ;)
20090114 17:02:12< Baufo> Ivanovic, I agree with Soliton, however I have to admit that I wasn't aware of this
20090114 17:02:17< Baufo> well, sorry
20090114 17:03:34 * Soliton would call it a bug fix. ;-)
20090114 17:03:52< Soliton> Sapient: yeah, i've tested it today.
20090114 17:04:29< Sapient> on all the different resolutions?
20090114 17:05:19< Sapient> I'll be back later
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20090114 17:06:07< Baufo> well, I guess I won't commit my hack for a textbox that hides its input then... :)
20090114 17:06:09< Soliton> looks fine on 800x600.
20090114 17:07:30< Soliton> personally i don't care so much for the clear text but anyone using it in public probably does.
20090114 17:08:24< Baufo> yeah, me neither, it's just that is looks somehow... unprofessional
20090114 17:08:34< Soliton> yep.
20090114 17:08:49< Soliton> shall i file a bug for it? :-)
20090114 17:08:59< Baufo> heh
20090114 17:12:02< zookeeper> well, implementing anything which prevents people being particularly annoyed for the lifetime of the 1.6 branch should be classified as bugfixes ;)
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20090114 17:13:32< Soliton> yes, that's how i see it and why i don't mind those changes. i'm happy to file any bugs if necessary.
20090114 17:18:43< Soliton> Ivanovic: what Baufo did was improve the login dialog so you can now save the password for your account and reduce the number of dialogs. now it would also be nice to have the password not be displayed in the dialog so it's the same as in any other password dialog.
20090114 17:19:33< Soliton> Ivanovic: all these changes are limited to just the login procedure to the mp server so i don't see any reason to fear breakage somewhere else and logging in works fine for me.
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20090114 17:42:13-!- [Relic] [n=[Relic]@76.229.202.137] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090114 17:43:15< [Relic]> Hello :)
20090114 17:43:25< cib0> yo
20090114 17:43:40< [Relic]> :)
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20090114 18:19:49< cib0> where is the data folder in the standard install on debian?
20090114 18:21:33< Baufo> cib0, /usr/share/games/wesnoth
20090114 18:23:16< cib0> it doesn't include tools? or are they just elsewhere on 1.4?
20090114 18:23:21< cib0> thanks btw.
20090114 18:23:42< Soliton> wesnoth-tools
20090114 18:24:23< cib0> not there apparantly
20090114 18:24:48< Soliton> Rhonda: there is a typo in the wesnoth-tools package description: "including but not limted to" limited*
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20090114 18:28:35< Soliton> cib0: aptitude install wesnoth-tools
20090114 18:29:37< cib0> ah thanks
20090114 18:29:49< cib0> why so many packages for wesnoth? o.o
20090114 18:30:24< [Relic]> to support all those delivery guys during a recession?  :)
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20090114 18:58:03< Rhonda> cib0: Because they have quite some size and to allow people to install only the campaigns they like without having to pull in all the rest, too
20090114 19:01:32< loonycyborg> Rhonda: I suppose debian splits boost for similar reasons?
20090114 19:02:01< loonycyborg> Though I can't say boost's libs weighs much..
20090114 19:02:18< Rhonda> Not every application needs every part of boost, some things do also pull in additional other dependencies, so ... yes.
20090114 19:02:47< Rhonda> It's not the boost libs itself but the dependending libraries in the background
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20090114 19:03:36< Rhonda> hmm, they are mostly the same ....
20090114 19:03:45< Rhonda> loonycyborg: That split doesn't make too much sense to me, to be honest
20090114 19:04:08< loonycyborg> regex has optional dependency on icu.
20090114 19:04:19< Rhonda> ... other that part of it comes from different source packages. :)
20090114 19:04:51< loonycyborg> And boost::python depends on python.
20090114 19:04:52< Rhonda> boost vs. boost1.35, no, that's different versions only, one is rather transitional only, I guess
20090114 19:05:16< Rhonda> libboost-python1.34.1 doesn't have any python dependency over here, that puzzles me
20090114 19:06:22< loonycyborg> Because it's only needed when compiling boost and running apps using boost::python.
20090114 19:06:38-!- Sapient [n=patrickp@agentek.com] has quit ["Leaving."]
20090114 19:06:42< Rhonda> But would that require python in the end?
20090114 19:07:19< loonycyborg> Yes. But this will be reflected as the app itself depending on python :)
20090114 19:07:21< Rhonda> I never really understood library packaging anyway, that's why spl is such a mess.
20090114 19:07:48< Rhonda> But there I at least have a clear and noticeable reason for the splits through the direct dependencies.
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20090114 19:08:49< Rhonda> loonycyborg: Why would I need to have the dependency on python explicitly within the app itself just when I link in that library? Why doesn't the library pull it in implicitly, like it's done in other places?
20090114 19:11:10 * loonycyborg has no idea :?
20090114 19:12:08< loonycyborg> Though "ldd libboost_python.so" says that it doesn't depend on python :)
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20090114 19:13:43< loonycyborg> I'd say that lib itself doesn't depend on python because the functionality that actually calls python is in headers..
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20090114 19:26:59< Baufo> alright, so what did we decide, does a password box count as a bug fix? :)
20090114 19:27:04< zookeeper> yes
20090114 19:27:55< boucman> Baufo: no freaze break ?
20090114 19:28:36< Baufo> boucman, I don't quite understand
20090114 19:28:53< boucman> did you modify/introduce strings for translators ?
20090114 19:29:04< Baufo> no
20090114 19:30:51< boucman> ok you should be good, then
20090114 19:33:39< Baufo> wesbot, seen mordante
20090114 19:33:45< loonycyborg> boucman: There's also *feature* freeze since 1.5.7 :)
20090114 19:33:46< Baufo> wesbot: seen mordante
20090114 19:33:46< wesbot> Baufo: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 1d 21h ago.  1d 21h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: "ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"
20090114 19:34:58< Baufo> so basically 1.5.7 is the first beta of 1.6?
20090114 19:36:21-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090114 19:38:28< boucman> Baufo: yes, sort of
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20090114 20:43:25< boucman> http://lwn.net/Articles/314826/ how the heck did that arrive there...
20090114 20:44:41< ilor> boucman: subscription required
20090114 20:45:18< boucman> yeah, I'm not subscribed either, but the title itself proves we have more press exposure than we thought...
20090114 20:47:57< zookeeper> someone pastebin ;P?
20090114 20:49:06 * loonycyborg would prefer if LWN funded itself by highway robberies rather than withholding articles from general public :/
20090114 20:49:59< zookeeper> well, meh, making you wait 8 days isn't very evil.
20090114 20:50:00< loonycyborg> That way it would be much less destructive..
20090114 20:50:22< loonycyborg> 8 days? That's not much indeed..
20090114 20:50:43< zookeeper> but i agree it's silly, considering that registration is free and all that.
20090114 20:52:45< Baufo> they charge 5$/month which is not really a lot
20090114 20:54:18-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit ["Power failu"]
20090114 20:54:19< loonycyborg> Baufo: There's nothing wrong with charging 5$/month, but withholding articles from people who didn't pay for it is bogus.
20090114 20:58:19< zookeeper> oh. didn't notice that.
20090114 20:58:32< Sirp> boucman: gee, my goodness.....
20090114 20:59:08< boucman> nobody's subscribed ?
20090114 20:59:31< boucman> Sirp: the thing is I don't think there is much to say about that thread
20090114 20:59:53< boucman> I mean, nothing was concluded, and even the debate about python vs c++ wasn't very low level
20090114 21:00:06< boucman> it was more about how not to present an idea than anything
20090114 21:00:09 * zookeeper is guessing it's something amusing
20090114 21:00:13< boucman> must be low news dayf :P
20090114 21:03:35< Turuk_> it's a very...uh...interesting article
20090114 21:04:04< Turuk_> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/d311b2fe9
20090114 21:05:18< ettin> http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/314826/c01564a1b056b0cb/
20090114 21:07:14< Baufo> thanks :)
20090114 21:07:17 * Sirp goes to lunch and will return to read it later.
20090114 21:14:26< isaac> ettin: yeah
20090114 21:14:28< isaac> nice article
20090114 21:14:46< isaac> at least it portraits wesnoth developers as really civil :P
20090114 21:14:50< loonycyborg> It's not nearly as misleading as I feared :)
20090114 21:15:40< Turuk_> The writer does have the tone though that Python is the way to go and you developers will soon "see the light"
20090114 21:15:59< cib0> lol =)
20090114 21:16:07< Soliton> at first maybe but not so much in the end IMO.
20090114 21:16:24< ilor> yeah, but at least it's not "ANGRY C++ DEVS FLAME PYTHON CODER, FILM AT 11" ;)
20090114 21:17:13< isaac> ilor: :P
20090114 21:17:48< Ivanovic> hey, we all know that we are civilized
20090114 21:17:56< Turuk_> That is very true ilor :)
20090114 21:18:00< Ivanovic> UNLESS ONE OF YOU BREAKS THE STRING FREEZE!!!
20090114 21:18:01< Ivanovic> ;)
20090114 21:18:54 * Ivanovic currently thinks wether it will be better to bring the huge hammer or the big axe to fosdem...
20090114 21:18:59< ilor> Ivanovic: actually, I might break the string freeze a little bit in a few days :P
20090114 21:19:14< ilor> but the new string will appear when trunk currently hangs
20090114 21:19:18< Ivanovic> (just to be sure that problems with the string freeze will be easily solvable)
20090114 21:19:34< Ivanovic> ilor: so it is not needed at all since trunk will never hang
20090114 21:19:55< Ivanovic> unless you also introduced a new "feature" (*cough* feature freeze *cough*) that makes the game freeze...
20090114 21:19:57< Ivanovic> ;)
20090114 21:19:57< ilor> Ivanovic: try saving a game when your disk is full
20090114 21:20:13< Ivanovic> ilor: will be difficult
20090114 21:20:22< Ivanovic> i need lots of data to accomplish this...
20090114 21:20:25< Ivanovic> ;)
20090114 21:20:54< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: You can mount a file with loopback device :)
20090114 21:20:58< ilor> Ivanovic: I managed to setup a test enviroment in windows using a 1MB truecrypt partition. surely there are easier ways under linux :)
20090114 21:21:33< Ivanovic> ilor: nah, i would like to see those message in "normal usage" not just forcing them on...
20090114 21:22:02< ilor> I still need to fix the bug before I can go and put a error message there
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20090114 21:43:27< CIA-53> ivanovic * r32123 /trunk/data/ (_main.cfg multiplayer/_main.cfg): fix translations for ANL, now they even work ;)
20090114 21:45:58< Turuk> 30MB internet, here I come
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20090114 21:48:45< CIA-53> ivanovic * r32124 /trunk/po/ (9 files in 9 dirs): updated German translation
20090114 21:54:21-!- mordante [n=chatzill@roadie.xs4all.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090114 21:54:37< mordante> hi 
20090114 21:54:40< Baufo> hello mordante :)
20090114 21:54:42< Ivanovic> hi mordante
20090114 21:54:59< mordante> Baufo you were looking for me?
20090114 21:55:05< mordante> hi Baufo Ivanovic 
20090114 21:56:15< Baufo> mordante, I have written a simple password text box class and wondered whether you would like to review it
20090114 21:56:49< mordante> can you paste it somewhere?
20090114 21:58:28< Baufo> mordante, http://paste.debian.net/25996/
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20090114 22:04:43< mordante> I see a problem with functions which use get_value() in the automatic dialog fields and in general it feels a bit hacky
20090114 22:05:33< mordante> I'd rather see a clean rewrite and maybe a redesign of the text_box class to make it easier to write a clean interface for this class
20090114 22:05:55< mordante> but that should be postponed to 1.7.x
20090114 22:07:24< mordante> also I would like some more documentation on the functions
20090114 22:08:24< Baufo> I see, yeah it's definitely "hacky"
20090114 22:09:10< mordante> and it seems you found a bug in the text_box class ;-)
20090114 22:09:40-!- Turuk [n=JDiSab@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090114 22:09:53< Baufo> heh
20090114 22:11:06< Baufo> well, so we just go without any password box in 1.6?
20090114 22:11:30< mordante> no why?
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20090114 22:12:37< Baufo> why what? :)
20090114 22:13:02< mordante> [22:11]	<Baufo>	well, so we just go without any password box in 1.6?
20090114 22:15:00< Baufo> mordante, because if we postpone it to 1.7 it won't be in 1.6 :)
20090114 22:16:07< zookeeper> well, i have to say that a password box which shows your password to onlookers is pretty...well, how should i put it.
20090114 22:16:23< zookeeper> "wtf" might be the proper word
20090114 22:16:26< mordante> true, I like to do a clean version in 1.7 but have no problem with the hack for 1.6
20090114 22:16:37< mordante> seems I forgot to type a sentence ;-)
20090114 22:17:14< mordante> as long as it has a @todo so we won't forget about it (not that todo magically fixes it ;-) )
20090114 22:18:34< Sirp> the thing about that article is that I got the impression that if Python was used in Wesnoth and there was any opportunity to point out all the great features it delivered, we'd see another follow up article. If Python was introduced with disastrous results, I don't think we'd see another thing about it.
20090114 22:19:07< Sirp> or at least, it'd be "Wesnoth developers fail to accept Python" or similar.
20090114 22:20:04< Baufo> mordante, alright, then I'll add some more comments to explain what it does and commit it
20090114 22:20:16< Baufo> tomorrow :)
20090114 22:20:19< Baufo> night
20090114 22:20:33< mordante> night Baufo 
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20090114 22:21:03< loonycyborg> Sirp: Yes. That's because successes are more exciting than failures :P
20090114 22:22:07< mordante> not always a failure with a airplane landing is more exciting as a successful one :-P
20090114 22:22:58 * boucman takes a plane tomorow morning
20090114 22:23:09< mordante> I hope it won't be exciting
20090114 22:26:25< Sirp> loonycyborg: it really depends. If Python is a proven language with which success is virtually assured, then a success isn't very exciting. If on the other hand it's an immature language with which success is doubtful, well, .....
20090114 22:26:42< zookeeper> funny. if i'd have to choose whether i think that article was presenting the python thing in a good or a bad light, i'd say bad.
20090114 22:27:06< Sirp> zookeeper: really? I don't see how it says anything bad about Python at all.
20090114 22:27:16< Sirp> maybe bad about Python *supporters*, but not about Python.
20090114 22:27:38< Sirp> it also hints that in most cases C++ programmers wield pitchforks and go charging at Python users trying to lynch them.
20090114 22:28:31< mordante> yes it's nice that we're portaited as a nice community :-)
20090114 22:28:57< zookeeper> well, "First, Wesnoth developers will have to be familiar with both languages, which Raymond, at least, does not view as a problem: "Python is much easier to pick up than C++". Performance is another concern, one that he glosses over with a breezy "machines are still getting faster""
20090114 22:29:08< Sirp> yes it did actually portray the Wesnoth community as being nice, and me personally as nice for that matter, which I guess I should appreciate. :p
20090114 22:29:16< zookeeper> frankly that looked to me like they were saying those arguments were poor ;)
20090114 22:29:39< Sirp> zookeeper: actually yeah that's kinda true
20090114 22:30:31< zookeeper> and there wasn't much else said about the actual possible benefits of the shift, i think
20090114 22:31:51< zookeeper> and since the rest was basically explaining the mistakes done making the proposal..
20090114 22:31:59< Sirp> well they did include ESR's claims of "no more memory allocation screwups, *ever*." and "Python code is between 2 and 5 times more compact than C/C++" 
20090114 22:33:14< mordante> and they didn't include the claims about the fact that at least the first isn't true
20090114 22:33:40< zookeeper> i guess there are various reasons why you'd want to show what other people have claimed even if you don't agree with them :p
20090114 22:34:40< Sirp> zookeeper: sure, but just posting that without showing counterpoints makes it sound like there is general agreement. :)
20090114 22:34:57< zookeeper> maybe i'm just biased to begin with then ;)
20090114 22:35:30< Sirp> so I guess our conclusion was that the article was mixed, and on balance somewhat fair
20090114 22:35:43 * zookeeper agrees
20090114 22:36:47 * mordante too
20090114 22:37:07< mordante> but nice to know more people read our dev-ml
20090114 22:37:54< mordante> didn't really expect that it would show up at lwn, seems there's still hope to get on /. as well ;-)
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20090114 23:04:55< Sirp> does anyone here know much about phpbb?
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20090114 23:16:38< mordante> I'm off night
20090114 23:16:39< loonycyborg> I only know that it's often spammed by spambots :)
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20090114 23:20:27< BroodKiller> hi all
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20090114 23:21:08< BroodKiller> anyone feels like testing the animation editor for me? (crosses fingers)
20090114 23:21:35< BroodKiller> I'd post it directly on the forums, but I guess it's better to give it some testing beforehand
20090114 23:22:19< BroodKiller> here's the current (beta) design: http://i43.tinypic.com/2lsbl92.jpg
20090114 23:22:58< Sirp> BroodKiller: niceeeee :)
20090114 23:23:53< loonycyborg> BroodKiller: What GUI toolkit it uses?
20090114 23:23:56< BroodKiller> I have finalized a primitive, but working beta tonight, and I tested it on some simple data
20090114 23:24:01< BroodKiller> wxWidgets
20090114 23:25:08< BroodKiller> it is a very simple application so far, but it can do the basic stuff an animation editor should be capable of doing
20090114 23:25:28< BroodKiller> -Open an existing *.cfg file
20090114 23:25:28< BroodKiller> -Display the frame data in a grid form
20090114 23:25:28< BroodKiller> -Edit the frame data (duration and image file)
20090114 23:25:28< BroodKiller> -Play the selected animation (one-time or in a constant loop) with files from a custom directory
20090114 23:25:28< BroodKiller> -Display some in-game terrain backgrounds
20090114 23:25:29< BroodKiller> -Save back the edited data to the opened file.
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20090114 23:26:53< BroodKiller> I got the win32 build ready, and tested that it works fine with Wine
20090114 23:27:05< boucman> BroodKiller: I'm busy right now, but as the animation coder, I would be VERY interested in looking into it
20090114 23:27:24< boucman> please ping me another day, so we can look into the details
20090114 23:27:34< BroodKiller> boucman: looking forwards to your feedback then 
20090114 23:27:43< BroodKiller> hokay, will do
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20090114 23:29:27< BroodKiller> as for a *NIX build, I tried to get one on done on my home Ubuntu, but there are some path issues in the way
20090114 23:29:57< BroodKiller> probably something minor and can be easily solved, so I don't take it as a big issue
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20090114 23:32:25< loonycyborg> BroodKiller: I might be interested in making it build on unices.
20090114 23:33:00< Shadow_Master> damn.
20090114 23:33:04< BroodKiller> here's the savefile project link: http://www.savefile.com/projects/808730094
20090114 23:33:21< BroodKiller> it contains the win32 binary and the source (wxWidgets+Codeblocks)
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20090114 23:34:03< BroodKiller> like I said - the win32 build seems to work fine with Wine, at least to the basic extent that I've tested it
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20090114 23:35:18< BroodKiller> but since both Codeblocks and wxW are about x-platforming, it shouldn't be hard to get it to work properly
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20090114 23:36:23< BroodKiller> I have no experience in x-platform project maintenance though, so sorry if it's more of a pain than it should
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20090114 23:37:29< loonycyborg> When I open the project, I get a dialog requesting to provide variable 'wx'
20090114 23:37:58< loonycyborg> Why can't it just use wx-config? :)
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20090114 23:38:10< Shadow_Master> argh.
20090114 23:39:07< BroodKiller> loonycyborg: heh, that's the kind of questions that I have never thought about ;)
20090114 23:39:27< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: sent you a nother translation update.
20090114 23:39:29< BroodKiller> like I said, it's justfor  some preliminary testing
20090114 23:40:19< Ivanovic> Shadow_Master: and i won't commit it today, i am basically on my way off to bed already...
20090114 23:40:47< BroodKiller> loonycyborg: do anything what you want, and if you can get it to compile and run properly, you'll have my gratitude :-)
20090114 23:41:01< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: could you verify the MD5 sum thougH?
20090114 23:41:01< Shadow_Master> (oh yeah, I forgot to mention, *that*'s the MD5)
20090114 23:41:01< Shadow_Master> oh no, I'm speaking to a dead network connection again.
20090114 23:41:20< Ivanovic> no, you are not
20090114 23:41:31< Ivanovic> and: uhm, why should i check the md5?!?
20090114 23:41:52< Ivanovic> if the archive extracts it is fine, if it is not: there will be another update from you tomorrow anyway...
20090114 23:41:53< Ivanovic> ;)
20090114 23:44:13< loonycyborg> BroodKiller: Here's SConstruct file for it: http://rafb.net/p/9EloUF78.html
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20090114 23:45:28< loonycyborg> It builds though I get an error since it seems to be using a backslash to compose a path.
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20090114 23:46:43< BroodKiller> loonycyborg: bleh, I thought so...too much win32, not enough *NIX
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20090114 23:48:16< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: whatever-
20090114 23:48:25< loonycyborg> There might be wxWidgets functions to compose paths in cross-platform manner.
20090114 23:48:42< loonycyborg> Failing that forward slashes work on windows too.
20090114 23:48:45< BroodKiller> there are, wxFileName does it, I guess
20090114 23:49:22< BroodKiller> I use this project as an excersize in wxW, basically
20090114 23:49:49< BroodKiller> haven't coded much with it before, other than tutorials, so the code is quite likely to suck more often than not
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20090114 23:50:22< BroodKiller> I already know of a place that could use some optimization, but I left that out for now
20090114 23:50:57< BroodKiller> basically, just check whether it works more or less fine and I'd be happy. It's a fresh out-of-alpha-on-to-beta build, and my only serious concern right now is whether it really works or is it jus me thinking so
20090114 23:51:44< BroodKiller> I have some bad Borland C++ Builder habits too, what you might notice
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20090114 23:52:41< BroodKiller> but I'll fix those paths for a next build, of course
20090114 23:53:05< loonycyborg> Once I change \ to / it runs without errors.
20090114 23:53:29< loonycyborg> Though I have no idea what files I should open with it :)
20090114 23:53:38< BroodKiller> first set the root image dir
20090114 23:53:56< BroodKiller> being the one that the images should be loaded from
20090114 23:54:34< BroodKiller> wesnoth/data/core/images/units should work
20090114 23:55:00< BroodKiller> and then open a unit config file
20090114 23:55:13< BroodKiller> backup it first though, just in case
20090114 23:55:52< BroodKiller> select an animation, press play and enjoy :P
20090114 23:56:49< BroodKiller> btw, currently only the "duration=" format is supported
20090114 23:56:59< BroodKiller> no begin/end
20090114 23:58:21< BroodKiller> it doesn't do much more than editing the parameters and playing the animation. the WML code is there just for reference, it is not editable
20090114 23:58:34< loonycyborg> Playing wraith's animation works for me.
20090114 23:58:45< BroodKiller> good
20090114 23:59:23< loonycyborg> Standing and defend animations that is.
20090114 23:59:46< loonycyborg> Playing attack animation caused it to enter infinite loop.
20090114 23:59:46< BroodKiller> ah, one thing - the [if] blocks are ignored
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20090114 23:59:58< BroodKiller> scheisse
--- Log closed Thu Jan 15 00:00:27 2009