--- Log opened Mon Jan 19 00:00:04 2009
20090119 00:00:38< Jetrel> As for my stance on the nipple issue, "treat them with the same amount of visual attention that would be drawn to say, fingernails, or other features of similar size."
20090119 00:00:52< Jetrel> Like navels, or facial features.
20090119 00:01:11< kitty_> will you post something like that or should i edit my post?
20090119 00:01:18< Jetrel> I will. :)
20090119 00:01:37< kitty_> thanks
20090119 00:01:44< Jetrel> I've seen both "deviant" sides of the issue - people who avoid drawing them at all costs, and people who draw way too much attention to them.
20090119 00:01:54-!- Shadow_Master_ [n=ignacior@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 00:02:31-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacior@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
20090119 00:02:41-!- Shadow_Master_ is now known as Shadow_Mas
20090119 00:02:45< Jetrel> It's best if people just draw them as if they're any old part of the body, and not give them "special treatment". >_>
20090119 00:02:46-!- Shadow_Mas is now known as Shadow_Master
20090119 00:03:02< kitty_> yup, just normal body thingies....  but mostly it's not only the artist who pays too much attention to them...
20090119 00:04:06< Shadow_Master> some artists do pay attention, I am sure (looking at the hidden forum)
20090119 00:04:32< Shadow_Master> I even remember I once talked to Jet about it, but I my memory has been overwritten ever since.
20090119 00:04:45< kitty_> all i saw up to now was more than harmless
20090119 00:05:12-!- Zen_Clark [n=user@99-136-80-191.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 00:05:34 * Shadow_Master is taking note of whatever Jetryl says here to append it to the wesnoth-umc-dev policies
20090119 00:05:53< Jetrel> On sprites, the only reason we don't draw nipples is that we also don't draw mouths - it's just too small to do anything but suggest the larger part of the body they're a part of.  But again - it's not because they're nipples, it's just because they're "small".
20090119 00:06:30< Shadow_Master> mouth? exception to the rule: druid's ranged attack animation.
20090119 00:06:47< Shadow_Master> but that may be because of the pose.
20090119 00:09:51< kitty_> Ivanovic: i just started AOI and yes, it's a bit awkward. i like to alternate the sides for dialogue, feels more like speaking, but the first speaker should start to the left... and the text gets way to near to the left margin if the portrait is right aligned - what's the minimum distance? and boo - the mainscreen backgrounds are still my landscapes 
20090119 00:10:11< Shadow_Master> Sirp_ didn't get around to change that.
20090119 00:10:15< Jetrel> Remember, the mouth is an unusual part of the body that can change shape.  When it's wide open, it can get bigger than when it's closed.
20090119 00:10:47< kitty_> Shadow_Master: it's not that important, i'd just like to have it changed till the next stable release
20090119 00:11:00< Jetrel> And when it's big enough, and dark enough to be in strong contrast with the surrounding skin tone, it merits a pixel or two of "display".
20090119 00:11:15< Shadow_Master> that's what I meant with pose :)
20090119 00:11:19 * Jetrel nods
20090119 00:16:15< zookeeper> Jetrel, started on the new HttT portraits yet ;)?
20090119 00:16:41< Jetrel> Yeah, actually, and have a first draft of delfador done, but I need to revise it.
20090119 00:17:00< Jetrel> It's painfully slow going, since I'm trying to do it purely in photoshop.
20090119 00:17:03< zookeeper> oh, cool. i was thinking of giving you extra motivation :P
20090119 00:17:04< kitty_> but he's really looking good :D
20090119 00:17:18< Shadow_Master> the artists' secret action squad.
20090119 00:17:35< Jetrel> And I haven't worked on it in several days now (busy with other things, including some code work).
20090119 00:17:36-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit ["leaving"]
20090119 00:19:06-!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@moinmoin/developer/karol] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090119 00:19:11-!- kitty_ [n=kitty@e180219187.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090119 00:19:31-!- kitty_ [n=kitty@e180219187.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 00:19:37< fabi_> There is a hidden forum in which only artists can look?
20090119 00:19:59< kitty_> haha! if you knew! 
20090119 00:20:01< thespaceinvader> hi Jetrel
20090119 00:20:02< kitty_> no.
20090119 00:20:11< Jetrel> It was just a PM.
20090119 00:20:36< Jetrel> I wanted to bounce it off her before embarrassing myself in front of the forum.
20090119 00:20:52< Shadow_Master> fabi_: no, we should just happily live with the idea that there IS  a secret artists forum
20090119 00:21:39< Shadow_Master> (probably controlled by LordBob and his eight-arms minions)
20090119 00:21:57 * fabi_ lols
20090119 00:22:05< thespaceinvader> kitty_ (and Jetrel, if you're interested) i've uploaded a new Thunderer, what do you think?
20090119 00:22:15< Shadow_Master> fabi_: nope. "lol" is not a verb.
20090119 00:22:23< Shadow_Master> "laughing out louds" = no-no
20090119 00:23:09 * fabi_ is loling
20090119 00:23:41-!- Dragonking [n=dk@chello084010045237.chello.pl] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090119 00:24:22< kitty_> thespaceinvader: good base. now don't use black and white for shadows and highlights that easy and set *accents* with them conciously. then you'll have metal. 
20090119 00:24:55< kitty_> LsOL?
20090119 00:25:04< Shadow_Master> good.
20090119 00:25:23< Turuk> thespaceinvader that is a big change, nice
20090119 00:25:28 * zookeeper lolzors
20090119 00:25:39< thespaceinvader> it definitely loks a lot beer, Turuk
20090119 00:25:48< thespaceinvader> final finessing is necessary i think
20090119 00:25:50 * Shadow_Master gives zookeeper the cookie of deception
20090119 00:26:32< Turuk> Indeed, but still, nice rings now ;)
20090119 00:31:14-!- shikadibot_ [n=sh314001@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 00:31:23-!- shikadibot_ is now known as shikadibot
20090119 00:31:52-!- shikadibot [n=sh314001@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Client Quit]
20090119 00:34:34-!- kitty_ [n=kitty@e180219187.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["off to bed"]
20090119 00:38:35 * crimson_penguin disappears for a while
20090119 00:38:40-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.214] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090119 00:39:27< CIA-6> loonycyborg * r32226 /trunk/SConstruct: Generated NSIS script wasn't installing translations since r32060. Fixed.
20090119 00:40:00< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: you told me they were working fine :?
20090119 00:40:32< loonycyborg> Shadow_Master: They did after I fixed it :)
20090119 00:40:49< Shadow_Master> k
20090119 00:42:10< loonycyborg> Since both wine and winxp use Russian by default for me, I've spotted that before release..
20090119 00:43:03-!- Shadow_Master_ [n=ignacior@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 00:45:07-!- Shadow_M1ster_ [n=ignacior@190.22.118.30] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 00:45:28< loonycyborg> With UMC translations bug I only tested the absense of "not adding textdomain" message on windows.
20090119 00:45:31-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacior@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
20090119 00:45:35-!- Shadow_Master_ [n=ignacior@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit [Client Quit]
20090119 00:45:42-!- Shadow_M1ster_ is now known as Shadow_Master
20090119 00:45:50 * loonycyborg is too lazy to checkout TDH on windows too.
20090119 00:46:27< Shadow_Master> svn export
20090119 00:46:28< loonycyborg> Though I can confirm that TDH translations work on linux now :)
20090119 00:46:32< Shadow_Master> then copy to a usb drive
20090119 00:46:33< zookeeper> thespaceinvader, that latest thunderer chainmail looks pretty good indeed
20090119 00:46:41< thespaceinvader> thanks, zookeeper
20090119 00:46:56< thespaceinvader> tomorrow's task, applying the same technique to the D'guard
20090119 00:47:46< zookeeper> what i'd attempt on that (not being a portrait artist and all) would be to try to shade what's underneath a bit. that's currently entirely black
20090119 00:48:08< thespaceinvader> it's not entirely, actually
20090119 00:48:16< thespaceinvader> i'll upload a close shot, hold on
20090119 00:48:23< zookeeper> well, it appears like that anyway
20090119 00:49:54< thespaceinvader> possibly i pitched the base colour a little dark
20090119 00:50:12< thespaceinvader> but i'm not about to redo it, so meh
20090119 00:50:26-!- Zen_Clar` [n=user@99-136-80-191.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 00:50:58< zookeeper> don't you have it layered so that you could paint only on the background?
20090119 00:51:02< thespaceinvader> zookeeper: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/download/file.php?id=27193
20090119 00:51:39< thespaceinvader> i should have done, but i muffed up the layering right at the start >.<
20090119 00:52:21< thespaceinvader> I was working from a method kitty suggested, and I didn't think about splitting the background colour up from the 'holes' colour in separate layers
20090119 00:52:31< thespaceinvader> i will do for the d'guard thoguh
20090119 00:53:30< zookeeper> ok
20090119 00:54:05< zookeeper> (although i think it can be done still using some magic wanding)
20090119 00:54:34< thespaceinvader> i just gave it a quick go, and it would probably be vaguely doable
20090119 00:54:42< thespaceinvader> i'll see how i feel about it tomorrow
20090119 00:55:33< zookeeper> cool, then i won't imagebin my 2-minute paintover ;)
20090119 00:57:05< thespaceinvader> lol ok
20090119 01:03:08-!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe9ff800-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit []
20090119 01:08:01-!- Zen_Clark [n=user@99-136-80-191.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090119 01:13:37-!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-24-126-133-155.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 01:14:07< Sapient> released 1.5.8? cool
20090119 01:14:18< Shadow_Master> fabi_: around?
20090119 01:15:18< Shadow_Master> fabi_: when you are... you may have changed the [wml_message] logger to "debug"
20090119 01:15:40< Shadow_Master> then the messages would display only if you set the debug level to the wml logdomain e.g. --log-debug=wml
20090119 01:15:50< Shadow_Master> or :log debug wml   in the game command interface
20090119 01:16:51< Sapient> what is the default logger= ?
20090119 01:17:02< Shadow_Master> Sapient: the same as for the rest of the game, that is 'error'
20090119 01:17:14< Shadow_Master> unless somebody changed that whilst I was asleep.
20090119 01:17:36< Sapient> ok, makes sense
20090119 01:18:12< Shadow_Master> I am not sure if anybody wants :debug (or the -d/--debug cmdline switch) to change that for selected log domains. IMO it is not necessary.
20090119 01:21:29< Shadow_Master> Sapient: when 1.5.8 is annoucned, am I supposed to post somewhere in the Workshop about the deprecation of [debug_message] ?
20090119 01:22:15< Sapient> you should do it now
20090119 01:22:42< Sapient> oh, wait... is debug_message still supported?
20090119 01:23:00< Shadow_Master> deprecated but supported until 1.5.10 or something
20090119 01:23:16< Sapient> ok, then I wouldn't worry about posting any messages
20090119 01:23:32< Sapient> it's enough to mark it as deprecated in the WML Workshop
20090119 01:23:43< Sapient> and the changelog
20090119 01:24:31< Shadow_Master> 21:25 <Sapient> it's enough to mark it as deprecated in the WML Workshop
20090119 01:24:40< Shadow_Master> that is what I am asking about. Where in the workshop?
20090119 01:24:48< Sapient> I meant to say WML Reference, sorry :P
20090119 01:25:09< Sapient> there's no need to post a sticky or announcement about it
20090119 01:25:37< Shadow_Master> okay, yes the wiki is updated already.
20090119 01:28:03 * loonycyborg confirms that UMC translations actually work on windows(with wine, cross-compiled binary and TDH)
20090119 01:29:56-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.214] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 01:30:05-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@91.108.183.198] has quit ["night all"]
20090119 01:30:38< Shadow_Master> \o/
20090119 01:31:09< Shadow_Master> see? wesnoth-umc-dev can not only deliver bug reports, but also close them with good fixes ;)
20090119 01:32:57< Sapient> good
20090119 01:33:30< CIA-6> jetryl * r32227 /trunk/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/images/portraits/asheviere.png: Transparent version of pickslide's asheviere portrait.
20090119 01:34:14-!- Espreon [n=espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090119 01:36:32-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.247.74] has quit ["Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"]
20090119 01:36:37-!- Shadow_Master_ [n=ignacior@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 01:37:10-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacior@190.22.118.30] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
20090119 01:37:17-!- Shadow_Master_ is now known as Shadow_Master
20090119 01:40:55< Shadow_Master> Jetrel: good job.
20090119 01:41:14< Shadow_Master> but I don't like the pickslidesque "WTF?" look of Asheviere in it :P
20090119 01:43:26< Shadow_Master> (I know they all have to be remade, etc etc, just a comment)
20090119 01:45:08< Jetrel> God I hate these portraits, now - especially lisar.  What stupid cheesecake bullcrap.
20090119 01:45:35< Jetrel> I'd ask "What was I thinking", but then ... it's pretty obvious. :/
20090119 01:46:04 * Shadow_Master , it isn't obvious for Shadow_Master.
20090119 01:46:56< Jetrel> Cheesecake happens when I male artist has the sudden revelation that "hey, the girls I'm drawing don't look like they would bark anymore".
20090119 01:47:16< Jetrel> The novelty wears off after a while, I assure you.
20090119 01:48:58< Jetrel> Also - the other thing I just find tiresome is the "overly cutesy anime" style.  Again, it's something that the honeymoon is over on, for me.  When my visual perception of facial features was a lot more primitive, it looked charming, but it now looks gaudy.
20090119 01:49:32< Jetrel> I did it in that style partly to "stay the course" with francisco's original style, but I wouldn't have done it if I didn't like it myself at the time.
20090119 01:51:29< Shadow_Master> um, what was "francisco's original style"? The animeish portraits used in 0.7.x?
20090119 01:52:56< Shadow_Master> wesbot: log  2001
20090119 01:53:08< Jetrel> uh. these...
20090119 01:53:09< Shadow_Master> wesbot: log 2001
20090119 01:53:12< wesbot> fmunoz * r2001 : Added upadtes portraits for Lisar (I had this for ages in my hd.. forgot about them :-)
20090119 01:53:15< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=2001
20090119 01:53:32< Jetrel> http://www.allacrost.org/staff/user/jetryl/Wesnoth/Portraits/oldPortraits/httt-portraits-old.png
20090119 01:54:39< Shadow_Master> :D
20090119 01:55:18< Shadow_Master> in that regard, do you plan to do anything else with Li'sar (L2) Princess sprites?
20090119 01:55:19< Sapient> also available at his cafepress site
20090119 01:55:43< Jetrel> Shadow_Master: after I finish her new portrait, yes.
20090119 01:56:01< Shadow_Master> they still look unfitting, specially after the new L3 Battle Princess spriteset
20090119 01:56:43< Shadow_Master> besides the original 'scantily clad lady' scheme ;|
20090119 01:56:45< Jetrel> I'm shooting to go for more of a "joan of arc" look; the new lisar is going to be wearing some actual armor.
20090119 01:57:38< Jetrel> Full plate, actually, although we'll make the one "RPG character" concession of having the helmet off for dialogue.
20090119 01:57:51< Shadow_Master> aha
20090119 01:59:35< CIA-6> jetryl * r32228 /trunk/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/images/portraits/ (delfador.png konrad.png lisar.png): Transparent version of several portraits.
20090119 02:01:04< Shadow_Master> of course, can't wait to see all that happen, but there are still some TC-less units in mainline that need some care for 1.6 ;)
20090119 02:01:11< Shadow_Master> * mainline era
20090119 02:01:31-!- ilor [n=user@unaffiliated/ilor] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
20090119 02:02:04 * Jetrel nods
20090119 02:02:28< Jetrel> Anyways, I have a sorta-kinda-mostly transparent version of the konrad-angry portrait.
20090119 02:02:28< CIA-6> shadowmaster * r32229 /trunk/changelog: Remove some garbage whitespace from changelog.
20090119 02:02:46< Jetrel> I'll do the additional work to fix that after I eat dinner here.
20090119 02:03:13< Jetrel> Hopefully later tonight I'll be able to FINALLY commit the sylph and enchantress.
20090119 02:03:27< Shadow_Master> Jetrel: that...
20090119 02:03:37< Jetrel> ?
20090119 02:03:41< CIA-6> shadowmaster * r32230 /trunk/changelog: Update changelog for Jetryl's removal of black backgrounds in HttT.
20090119 02:03:45< Shadow_Master> Jetrel: the procedure for the sylph's wings is well defined now, right?
20090119 02:03:54< Jetrel> Not quite.
20090119 02:04:15< Jetrel> Wait till I'm done doing the standing animation, and looking at it in-game to see if I'm pleased with it.
20090119 02:04:30< Jetrel> Plus, then you'll be able to use my standing animation.
20090119 02:04:31< Shadow_Master> okay, you know why I'm interested on the wings.
20090119 02:04:41< Shadow_Master> :)
20090119 02:04:50 * Jetrel nods - the lady of light for iftu?
20090119 02:04:55< Shadow_Master> yup.
20090119 02:04:59< Jetrel> Yeah
20090119 02:05:13< Jetrel> these'll look so, so much better when they're actually flapping their wings.
20090119 02:05:14< Shadow_Master> If it is possible for me to animate the wings without messing with the alpha channel or blinky effects, that'd be gret.
20090119 02:05:23< Shadow_Master> heh.
20090119 02:05:33< Jetrel> And I think we can get away with a mere 4 frames, though the jury's still out on that.
20090119 02:05:40< Jetrel> bbl
20090119 02:05:47 * Shadow_Master goes to watch a movie
20090119 02:08:37< Shadow_Master> I might as well grab a bag of obvious bugs to fix.
20090119 02:09:55< Shadow_Master> oh... "change difficulty mid-campaign"....
20090119 02:10:06< Shadow_Master> :-/
20090119 02:17:49< Shadow_Master> wow, someone should reassign this: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?11156
20090119 02:18:38< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg is the man perhaps?
20090119 02:18:55-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacior@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit ["We are the Borg. Your code will be rewritten in Python. Resistance is futile."]
20090119 02:51:18-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@66-189-14-42.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Hi! I'm a quit message virus vaccine. If you see a quit message virus, don't replace your quit message with it!"]
20090119 02:52:32-!- dfranke [i=dfranke@2001:470:1f04:53e:0:0:0:2] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 02:53:36-!- Zen_Clar` [n=user@99-136-80-191.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090119 03:07:04-!- Canageek [n=Canageek@d141-107-224.home.cgocable.net] has quit ["Tell me why are we/so blind to see/that the ones we hurt/are you and me"]
20090119 03:23:17< CIA-6> jetryl * r32231 /trunk/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/images/portraits/konrad-angry.png: Transparent vresion of konrad-angry. Slightly awkward crop, but it's all I've got drawn and the effort to make stuff anew would be better spent on a complete remake.
20090119 04:02:25-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has quit []
20090119 04:07:33-!- Jetrel [n=Jetrel@mn-10k-dhcp1-151.dsl.hickorytech.net] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090119 04:10:09-!- Ivanovic_ [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db2b998.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 04:18:35-!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-24-126-133-155.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit []
20090119 04:26:42-!- Ivanovic [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db26de7.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090119 04:28:08-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic
20090119 04:45:03-!- Kest|Fraith [i=ie@adsl-68-73-192-234.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 04:51:44-!- Canageek [n=Canageek@vlan360-044-116.maconline.McMaster.CA] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 05:04:27-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 05:10:34-!- Canageek [n=Canageek@vlan360-044-116.maconline.McMaster.CA] has quit ["Tell me why are we/so blind to see/that the ones we hurt/are you and me"]
20090119 05:24:21-!- fabi__ [n=fabi@e179056045.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 05:29:32-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.214] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090119 05:32:22-!- fabi_ [n=fabi@g228070043.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090119 06:21:29< CIA-6> dave * r32232 /trunk/src/server/simple_wml.cpp: fixed bug in ordering children in simple_wml
20090119 07:17:59-!- ABCD [n=abcd@wikipedia/ABCD] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090119 08:08:48-!- ilor [n=user@unaffiliated/ilor] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 08:48:48-!- ilor [n=user@unaffiliated/ilor] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
20090119 08:55:45-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@79.139.247.74] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 08:56:24-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.247.74] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 09:29:48-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has quit []
20090119 09:37:08-!- Appleman1234 [n=Appleman@CPE-124-177-151-84.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 09:44:16-!- Sirp_ [n=me@c-71-198-3-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"]
20090119 09:48:45-!- Appleman1234 [n=Appleman@CPE-124-177-151-84.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090119 10:13:29-!- grzybacz [i=grzywacz@kolos.math.uni.lodz.pl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 10:13:40< grzybacz> g'morning
20090119 10:44:11-!- Dragonking [n=dk@dedikerad/dragonking] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 10:44:49< grzybacz> ah, rescue. Didn't know about this tool: http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_37_0/tools/bcp/bcp.html
20090119 10:44:52< grzybacz> Dragonking: ;-)
20090119 10:45:31< Dragonking> hi everyone
20090119 10:46:45-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 10:51:05-!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe9ff800-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 10:54:31< grzybacz> http://gna.org/bugs/?12874 - oops?
20090119 10:57:17< zookeeper> oops, fixed already.
20090119 10:57:50< grzybacz> oops, cool.
20090119 11:05:06-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@91.108.184.215] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 11:17:12-!- fabi__ [n=fabi@e179056045.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090119 12:13:09< zookeeper> this terrain graphics WML is pissing me off again.
20090119 12:13:17< zookeeper> but i think there might be an engine bug involved
20090119 12:15:09< zookeeper> namely, transitions defined later are drawn on top of transitions defined earlier, whereas it should be the opposite.
20090119 12:15:35< zookeeper> for example, if i have {TRANSITION_BASE Rd (!,Rd) desert-road} and then {TRANSITION_BASE Ds (!,Ds) sand}, the sand transition gets drawn on top of the desert road transition
20090119 12:15:55< zookeeper> even though desert road transitions onto sand
20090119 12:16:12< zookeeper> which results in a lot of glitches at 3-way transition junctions
20090119 12:18:55< zookeeper> well, of course i can't really tell if it's a bug in the engine or somewhere within that mess of macros.
20090119 12:22:24-!- Turuk [n=JDiSab@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
20090119 12:22:54-!- Turuk [n=JDiSab@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 12:31:58< grzybacz> zookeeper: I'm going to mark that bug as fixed
20090119 12:33:35< zookeeper> sure
20090119 13:37:34-!- mjs-de [n=mjs-de@vpw.wh.Uni-Dortmund.DE] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 13:58:37-!- Voy [n=voy@89.100.146.237] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 13:59:22< Voy> hey guys, i'd like to help edit the czech translation of the tutorial, do you have a repository so i can download just the relevant gettext files and not the whole source?
20090119 14:03:09< loonycyborg> You can checkout only relevant dirs with svn..
20090119 14:04:09< loonycyborg> svn co svn://svn.gna.org/svn/wesnoth/trunk/po
20090119 14:05:28-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacior@146.155.209.156] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 14:06:04< Shadow_Master> hi
20090119 14:06:20< loonycyborg> hello
20090119 14:14:05-!- shikadibot_ [n=sh314001@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 14:14:14-!- shikadibot_ is now known as shikadibot
20090119 14:16:26< zookeeper> about the summary uploads: what was the problem with having them off by default? that people didn't notice the envelope or just otherwise didn't want to toggle them on?
20090119 14:17:04< Shadow_Master> probably the latter.
20090119 14:17:19< Shadow_Master> but only out of laziness I guess.
20090119 14:33:48-!- Voy [n=voy@89.100.146.237] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090119 14:38:16< Shadow_Master> argh... word wrapping in the old GUI makes the <R,G,B> markup useless for not-so-short strings
20090119 14:47:00< zookeeper> yep.
20090119 15:27:31-!- Turuk_ [n=JDiSab@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 15:35:01-!- Turuk [n=JDiSab@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090119 15:35:23-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.214] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 15:44:13< Shadow_Master> "Undefined subroutine &main::raw2postring called at /home/shadowm/bin/wmlxgettext line 69, <FILE> line 29."
20090119 15:44:16< Shadow_Master> um.
20090119 15:45:30< Shadow_Master> overriding the PATH fixes it.
20090119 15:48:10< Shadow_Master> what was the agreement about "tree-shagger" again?
20090119 15:48:26< Shadow_Master> I'm seeing it in SotBE in the gettext catalogue.
20090119 15:56:26< Ivanovic> hi
20090119 15:56:49< Shadow_Master> ho
20090119 16:12:16< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: shouldn't thespaceinvader have "Developers" as his primary group now that he has "developer" in his title?
20090119 16:12:28< Shadow_Master> it should be red
20090119 16:12:52< Shadow_Master> s/have/be switched to/
20090119 16:14:28< loonycyborg> That would be misleading. People would consider him C++ developer :)
20090119 16:15:36< Shadow_Master> hey, noy, zookeeper, wintermute, kesternvarn et al aren't programmers and they have red titles still. I don't see a problem with it.
20090119 16:16:42< loonycyborg> Ah. Then making him a developer wouldn't be *so* misleading.
20090119 16:17:13< Shadow_Master> Rain and West are also red
20090119 16:17:27< loonycyborg> Indeed.
20090119 16:17:39< Shadow_Master> you are red too.
20090119 16:18:08-!- Turuk [n=JDiSab@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 16:19:05< loonycyborg> But Jertyl isn't red.
20090119 16:19:11< loonycyborg> *Jetryl
20090119 16:19:27< Shadow_Master> He used to be until the "Olive People" hidden group was created.
20090119 16:20:04< loonycyborg> Maybe put thespaceinvader in "Olive People" too? :)
20090119 16:20:45< Shadow_Master> he is in that group, kind of. But since the is not Director of anything, it isn't his primary group.
20090119 16:20:49-!- elias_ [n=elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 16:20:50< zookeeper> loonycyborg, i've never understood where that developer == programmer interpretation comes from.
20090119 16:21:37-!- elias_ is now known as elias
20090119 16:21:42 * Shadow_Master neither. Specially if loonycyborg is talking about C++; there is one Python-only developer already.
20090119 16:21:58< thespaceinvader> If i might: I'd say that my preference would be the current colour - it's a clear association with the art side, and I know next to nothing about just about anything else...
20090119 16:22:06-!- suokko [n=suokko@vipunen.hut.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090119 16:22:25< Shadow_Master> hey, kesternvarn and fmunoz are also red as I sad ;)
20090119 16:22:50< Shadow_Master> and at least kesternvarn is very much like you; just art commits
20090119 16:23:10< loonycyborg> Shadow_Master: What Python-only developer you're talking about? ESR? :)
20090119 16:23:22< Shadow_Master> no silly. you.
20090119 16:24:21< loonycyborg> Shadow_Master: I commit C++ too. You didn't notice?
20090119 16:24:40< Shadow_Master> ah, but only rarely.
20090119 16:24:53< Shadow_Master> zookeeper also commits C++ from time to time
20090119 16:24:57< loonycyborg> ESR does so rarely too AFAICT.
20090119 16:25:43< Shadow_Master> no comment.
20090119 16:25:46-!- Turuk_ [n=JDiSab@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090119 16:27:19< thespaceinvader> if the general consensus is that red is preferable, I'm happy to follow that, however =)
20090119 16:27:35< thespaceinvader> (apologies for time between replies, absorbed in chain mail at present)
20090119 16:27:50< Turuk> I know, I hate those spam letter too thespaceinvader
20090119 16:27:52< Shadow_Master> I'll let Ivanovic decide for himself.
20090119 16:27:56< Turuk> If you donate 10 cents a day... ;)
20090119 16:28:22< Shadow_Master> haha
20090119 16:28:27< thespaceinvader> Turuk: if ten cents a day paid for someone to do the drudgy bit of the artwork, that would be awesome +D
20090119 16:28:56< Turuk> Haha very true.  We could raise a fund to hire an art slave
20090119 16:36:32 * Shadow_Master can't wait for the 1.5.8 announcement.
20090119 16:39:11< Shadow_Master> ;)
20090119 16:40:29< Shadow_Master> thespaceinvader: I get the impression that the light source is right above the dwarf, from most of the elements of the portrait
20090119 16:40:45< thespaceinvader> pretty much
20090119 16:40:52< Shadow_Master> but the right edge of the lower portion of chainmail confuses me :/
20090119 16:41:39< thespaceinvader> how so?
20090119 16:42:46< Shadow_Master> It might be just me, but I'd expect, given the above assumption, that it was in the shadows, not under light.
20090119 16:43:47< Shadow_Master> unless the light source was a little behind the dwarf, which is not what the stick's lighting suggests to me. Again, it might be just me...
20090119 16:44:04< Shadow_Master> * dragonstick
20090119 16:44:35< thespaceinvader> The light is above and slightly in front
20090119 16:44:59< thespaceinvader> the shadow of the stick probably should hit the leg, you're quite right
20090119 16:45:02 * thespaceinvader edits
20090119 16:46:41< Shadow_Master> awesome, this is the first time an artist tells me that I'm right. It means so much for me D:
20090119 16:47:02-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit ["leaving"]
20090119 16:53:28 * Shadow_Master updates valgrind
20090119 16:55:24 * thespaceinvader finishes editing and uploads
20090119 16:56:03 * Shadow_Master thanks crimson_penguin for his great responsiveness on releases
20090119 16:56:17< crimson_penguin> :)
20090119 16:56:32< Shadow_Master> (translations work this time, right??)
20090119 16:56:49< crimson_penguin> yes, unless I've gone insane, they do :P
20090119 16:57:11< crimson_penguin> I saw it translated in Swedish, so everything should be good
20090119 16:57:35< Shadow_Master> okay, great
20090119 16:58:26< crimson_penguin> I'm planning on packaging your TC thing btw
20090119 16:58:36< Shadow_Master> yes, Espreon told me about it :)
20090119 16:59:16< Shadow_Master> crimson_penguin: but what use does it have if it has no GUI?
20090119 16:59:19< crimson_penguin> but I might not be too quick with it, because I wanna use it as a project to learn to Objective-C/Cocoa - the upside being, that it should be really nice to use when I do use it
20090119 16:59:19< crimson_penguin> err, do it*
20090119 17:01:47< Shadow_Master> ahh
20090119 17:02:23-!- Turuk [n=JDiSab@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090119 17:03:37-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@66-189-14-42.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 17:05:36< crimson_penguin> Shadow_Master: what do you mean?
20090119 17:06:12< crimson_penguin> I think Mac artists probably wouldn't like to use the command line so much, so I was thinking to make a Mac GUI for it
20090119 17:07:01< Shadow_Master> yeah, that was my question. I didn't realize you were making a GUI
20090119 17:07:17< Shadow_Master> but you answered it just a few minutes ago ^^
20090119 17:07:55-!- Turuk [n=JDiSab@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 17:15:33 * loonycyborg is investigating addon removal errors on windows.
20090119 17:15:54< loonycyborg> It successfully removes files but fails to remove directories.
20090119 17:16:19< loonycyborg> And the error is: "Permission denied" :?
20090119 17:17:09< loonycyborg> Though that may be wine-specific issue and something else is happening on native windows..
20090119 17:20:05< Shadow_Master> try wine winefile and remove the files using it
20090119 17:20:27< Shadow_Master> that should tell you whether it is wine or wesnoth.
20090119 17:21:08< Shadow_Master> it seems wine hates my country too.
20090119 17:21:08-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 17:23:15< loonycyborg> Moving it to recycle bin with winefile worked.
20090119 17:23:34< loonycyborg> Though this is totally different thing than delete on windows.
20090119 17:23:56< loonycyborg> And deleting with shift doesn't work with winefile.
20090119 17:24:36< Shadow_Master> "recycle bin"?
20090119 17:24:41< Shadow_Master> couldn't you just delete?
20090119 17:25:09< Shadow_Master> ... since when wine has a recycle bin?
20090119 17:25:25-!- cib0 [n=cib@p4FD0C203.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 17:25:29< loonycyborg> It told that it will move to recycle bin :)
20090119 17:25:39< Shadow_Master> wa... :| not good.
20090119 17:25:46< loonycyborg> Perhaps bad Russian translation? :)
20090119 17:26:05< Shadow_Master> well, unless the stupid windows applications are capable of expecting and assuming the existence of a r. bin?
20090119 17:26:17< Shadow_Master> * windows application programmers
20090119 17:26:29< loonycyborg> I fail to find that recyclebin btw, so it could have actually deleted it.
20090119 17:27:12< loonycyborg> Wait.. I've found it in KDE's trashcan.
20090119 17:27:16< Shadow_Master> lol
20090119 17:27:27< loonycyborg> So it was moved, not deleted.
20090119 17:27:52< Shadow_Master> "deleted" in the Windows sense I guess
20090119 17:27:52< loonycyborg> And I often can move files that I can't delete on windows.
20090119 17:28:06< Shadow_Master> such as?
20090119 17:28:25< Shadow_Master> if you are speaking of DLLs or .so's, it might be just because the filesystem behaves differently in Windows and  Linux.
20090119 17:28:25< loonycyborg> dlls that for some reason become 'protected'
20090119 17:28:30-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit ["leaving"]
20090119 17:28:39< Shadow_Master> also, wine does not implement System File Protection.
20090119 17:30:19< loonycyborg> It doesn't have to, because Unix filesystem is not braindead and doesn't cause apps that use the deleted files to fail :)
20090119 17:31:27< Shadow_Master> SFP in Windows has a different primary purpose: protect users from malicious apps (oh noes) infesting their systemroot with malicious files (viruzors)
20090119 17:31:58< Shadow_Master> of course you don't need that in Wine. You don't care about ~/.wine so much and the real .dll.so files cannot be affected by non-root users
20090119 17:32:36< loonycyborg> Well.. If it can be bypassed by moving the protected files, then it's an epic FAIL
20090119 17:34:01< Shadow_Master> that wouldn't work. winlogon.exe "detects" those operations somehow and restores the files as soon as possible... unless someone edits a key in HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Session Manager  that disables SFP
20090119 17:34:41 * Shadow_Master wonders if that "detect" is the cause of slower filesystem operations on windows than in Linux.
20090119 17:34:56-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 17:35:24< loonycyborg> Then why does it block deletions outright?
20090119 17:35:30< Shadow_Master> Turuk: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=333514#p333514 ?
20090119 17:35:44< loonycyborg> Instead of using the same approach of delayed restore..
20090119 17:36:04< Shadow_Master> interestingly, I have never found Windows to stop me from deleting anything except for the Win9x family.
20090119 17:36:18< elias> ext3 is quite slow in deleting files here as well
20090119 17:36:18< Turuk> I'll just delete it, thanks SM
20090119 17:36:39< Shadow_Master> those would do a loose protection of some essential files , but not all of them (they simply forgot about some of the most important ones :P)
20090119 17:36:51< Shadow_Master> Turuk: np
20090119 17:37:15< Turuk> He has been trying to slip through the radar lately
20090119 17:37:34< Shadow_Master> Turuk: that guy doesn't know a single thing about art, so PM him and tell him not to mess with true artists ;)
20090119 17:37:59< Turuk> He was already told not to post in Art Contributions by Soliton I believe, I will have to ask Soliton how long he told him not to post there, or if it was indefinite
20090119 17:38:44< Shadow_Master> I guess it would've been "until you learn better"
20090119 17:39:14< Shadow_Master> unless he did something really bad, that is.
20090119 17:39:48 * Soliton has not ever posted anything in an art forum.
20090119 17:40:00< Turuk> His comments consisted of one-liners such as "Awww purdy." Trashman that is
20090119 17:40:00< zookeeper> ever?
20090119 17:40:09< Turuk> Solition, what did you tell him? I did not realize you were on
20090119 17:40:22< Shadow_Master> tab completion is your friend
20090119 17:41:41< cib0> does Wesnoth actually use TCP?
20090119 17:41:58< Shadow_Master> you should also recall that you merged like 5 consecutive (in less than 2 hours) posts of him in Scen. and Camp. Dev. a week ago. Perhaps that confused you :p
20090119 17:42:14< Shadow_Master> cib0: yes, why not!
20090119 17:42:36< cib0> Shadow_Master: does it now?
20090119 17:42:44< grzybacz> ?!
20090119 17:42:48< elias> it always did only use TCP
20090119 17:42:51 * Shadow_Master can definitively see it opening TCP ports, according to netstat
20090119 17:43:03< cib0> i thought TCP would ensure for data to be sent?
20090119 17:43:30< grzybacz> It does, why?
20090119 17:43:59< Turuk> Hmm
20090119 17:44:08< cib0> because i just realized i couldnt play with a friend of mine because he often encounters short internet disconnects and that leads to data being lost
20090119 17:44:23< cib0> or atleast it seems so
20090119 17:44:32< Soliton> Turuk: you're mistaking me for someone else.
20090119 17:44:40< Turuk> That's what I realized
20090119 17:44:47< Turuk> Apologies
20090119 17:44:47< Shadow_Master> cib0: of course you cannot avoid sent data to get lost if you disconnect suddenly before the transfer finishes
20090119 17:45:03< Shadow_Master> unless, well, you had godlike powers.
20090119 17:45:10< Soliton> cib0: then you disconnect. i don't think it's possible to just lose data.
20090119 17:45:16< grzybacz> loonycyborg: you can remove the protection from a files which is in use with some tool from sysinternals
20090119 17:45:20< cib0> but wont it tell you the data got lost?
20090119 17:45:22< elias> TCP is connection oriented - so if you disconnect, the connection is gone and you need to reconnect
20090119 17:45:24< grzybacz> *file
20090119 17:45:51< Turuk> It was Sapient.  Well Sapient, when you get on, can you let me know how long you told TrashMan to stop posting in Art Contribs? Thanks.
20090119 17:45:52< Shadow_Master> well, it should tell you a transfer was cancelled, e.g. connection timed out.
20090119 17:46:19< cib0> so the problem is on Wesnoth's side not handling such events properly?
20090119 17:46:47< Soliton> the problem is you imagining things. :->
20090119 17:46:49< Shadow_Master> Wesnoth definitively handles connection timeouts for me.
20090119 17:47:36< cib0> unlike you, i believe my eyes more than other people's opinion
20090119 17:48:06< Shadow_Master> I don't believe you or Soliton. I believe the source. ;)
20090119 17:48:07< cib0> what i know is that this problem only occurs with that person and the only difference there i see is the disconnects
20090119 17:48:33< Shadow_Master> it could be a lower level issue too.
20090119 17:48:49< cib0> hm, possibly
20090119 17:49:19< Shadow_Master> it's like, Wesnoth cannot handle kernel panics either ;)
20090119 17:49:48< elias> what problem exactly occurs?
20090119 17:50:05< Shadow_Master> and what is the exact error message if any...
20090119 17:50:13< cib0> well, Wesnoth gives bad problems with downloading, too, so i really suspected it being due to cheap network code
20090119 17:50:31< cib0> most frequent problem is him ending his turn and me not noticing it
20090119 17:52:11< Soliton> and he can chat to you still?
20090119 17:52:23< Soliton> in wesnoth i mean.
20090119 17:52:54< cib0> hm, no idea, we always used instant messengers.. i can try that
20090119 17:53:12< Soliton> well, then you have no idea whether he lost connection or not.
20090119 17:53:17< cib0> whats the default port for wesnothd again?
20090119 17:53:24< Soliton> 15000
20090119 17:53:56< Shadow_Master> btw, if you get disconnected during a download, Wesnoth closes the socket and discards all downloaded content. This is because campaign downloads are atomic operations of single objects.
20090119 17:54:20< Shadow_Master> they are not "directory" downloads.
20090119 17:54:36< cib0> yet the python script handles it better somehow
20090119 17:54:53< Shadow_Master> not ime.
20090119 17:55:09-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 17:55:30< Shadow_Master> hi noy 
20090119 17:55:38< noy> hey SM
20090119 17:55:40< noy> anything new?
20090119 17:56:03< Shadow_Master> not much, just a very controversial topic in art contribs.
20090119 17:56:30< noy> The mermaid issue?
20090119 17:56:40< Shadow_Master> yup
20090119 17:56:44< noy> hm
20090119 17:57:05< cib0> *wonders what could be controversial about mermaids*
20090119 18:01:55< grzybacz> "
20090119 18:01:57< grzybacz> Some terrains use best movement, others use worst. The best defense is always used."
20090119 18:02:00< grzybacz> um, no?
20090119 18:02:50< Soliton> where is it not?
20090119 18:03:09< grzybacz> Water village?
20090119 18:04:08< Shadow_Master> Wiki may be outdated. The source speaks the truth.
20090119 18:05:56< Soliton> well, is village a base terrain?
20090119 18:06:10< grzybacz> right, it's not
20090119 18:06:17< Soliton> i mean villages don't have a defense per se.
20090119 18:06:52< grzybacz> Well... But they alter defense for sure.
20090119 18:08:01< Soliton> yeah..
20090119 18:09:36< Soliton> the thing is that there is no special def_alias specified though.. not sure how it works exactly.
20090119 18:12:54< grzybacz> confusing
20090119 18:15:24-!- Dragonking [n=dk@dedikerad/dragonking] has quit []
20090119 18:16:51-!- shikadibot [n=sh314001@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/bot/shikadibot] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
20090119 18:18:19-!- shikadibot_ [n=sh314001@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 18:18:30< Shadow_Master> apparently shikadibot does not have permissions to run a screen
20090119 18:18:34< Shadow_Master> oops, wrong channel...
20090119 18:18:46-!- shikadibot_ is now known as shikadibot
20090119 18:19:00< Soliton> grzybacz: looks like water villages are not an alias of village.
20090119 18:19:09-!- cib0 [n=cib@p4FD0C203.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090119 18:27:36< Shadow_Master> 120 MB for updating my python libraries... great.
20090119 18:28:38-!- Noyga [n=lame-z@AVelizy-151-1-46-204.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 18:30:07< zookeeper> Soliton, that's kinda odd IMO. i'm not sure what it could be made to change if it was, but..
20090119 18:31:29 * zookeeper doesn't like the inconsistency of how some villages are aliases of their base terrain and some aren't, like how the basic human snow village isn't also an alias of frozen
20090119 18:32:08< zookeeper> but the desert, hill etc villages are aliases of their base terrains
20090119 18:32:20< Soliton> well, we can change that easily?
20090119 18:33:02< zookeeper> yes
20090119 18:33:16< Soliton> for the water village we'd have to add some def_alias though.
20090119 18:33:24< zookeeper> shouldn't be a problem
20090119 18:34:01< Soliton> make it so!
20090119 18:34:26< zookeeper> aren't we in balancing freeze now ;)?
20090119 18:34:28< Soliton> ..or maybe leave it for 1.7.
20090119 18:34:34< Soliton> maybe.
20090119 18:39:25-!- VladimirSlavik [n=chatzill@136.219.broadband6.iol.cz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 18:41:25-!- EdB [n=EdB@208.117.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 18:42:32-!- Turuk_ [n=JDiSab@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 18:50:01-!- Turuk [n=JDiSab@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090119 19:03:22-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has quit []
20090119 19:10:20-!- Dragonking [n=dk@chello084010045237.chello.pl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 19:10:54-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 19:15:19-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20090119 19:18:31 * zookeeper would have imagined that the "enable scroll tracking of unit actions" option would go to the advanced tab, not to display
20090119 19:18:40< zookeeper> besides, who got the bright idea of putting a period there?
20090119 19:19:35< zookeeper> like, you know, obviously different from all the other options there are
20090119 19:21:49< Shadow_Master> boucman perhaps
20090119 19:22:30< Soliton> display seems a good place to me or is it too crowded?
20090119 19:23:01< Soliton> it's not that much of an obscure option, i'd say.
20090119 19:23:31< zookeeper> Soliton, i think the advanced tab is better because actually i think it's quite an obscure option, since the only utility is in MP for some players
20090119 19:24:12< Soliton> maybe i don't want to see what the AI does in single player either!
20090119 19:24:19< zookeeper> you lie!
20090119 19:24:33< Soliton> it is certainly worded obscure though.
20090119 19:24:48< Ivanovic> okay, so the mp server is updated for 1.5.8?
20090119 19:24:53< Ivanovic> can i write the announcement?
20090119 19:24:57< Soliton> well, i don't care much either way anyway.
20090119 19:25:09< Ivanovic> Rhonda: debian binaries ready, too?
20090119 19:25:27< Soliton> Ivanovic: not quite but 1.5.8 works on it and i think there weren't even incompatible changes.
20090119 19:25:59< Soliton> Ivanovic: please mention that wesnothd is unstable in 1.5.8 and if people have issues they should use the one from 1.5.7.
20090119 19:26:08< zookeeper> i'd say that makes it an "advanced option", since it's the kind of an option which isn't very intuitive (like, what reason could an average player possibly think of for turning that off?)
20090119 19:26:39< Ivanovic> Soliton: uhm, sure about the "no incompatibilities"-part?
20090119 19:26:44< Ivanovic> from the (complete) changelog:
20090119 19:26:46< Ivanovic>  * Unit changes and balancing:
20090119 19:26:47< Ivanovic>    * Updated most units' defense and movement values on coastal reef
20090119 19:27:02< Soliton> and on that note the 1.5 server crashes...
20090119 19:27:29< zookeeper> (also it should definitely be reversed IMO, the option is for some rare people to be able to specifically disable it after all)
20090119 19:27:39< Soliton> Ivanovic: ok, not compatible then. i'm going to update in a bit anyway.
20090119 19:27:51< Ivanovic> okay, writing the announcement now
20090119 19:28:21< Soliton> zookeeper: oh, yes it should be on by default.
20090119 19:28:28< zookeeper> (oh well, that's not such a big deal after all i guess, but the periods should be fixed if possible and probably moved to the advanced tab)
20090119 19:28:34-!- Dragonking [n=dk@chello084010045237.chello.pl] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090119 19:28:59< zookeeper> Soliton, it's on by default now, i just think the option should be "disable move tracking" instead of "enable move tracking" (and off by default, of course)
20090119 19:29:51< zookeeper> it'd be a kind of an extra cue that the option is there so you can disable something you find annoying
20090119 19:30:01< zookeeper> instead of allowing you to toggle some extra functionality on
20090119 19:30:46< Soliton> ah, yeah.
20090119 19:34:20-!- boucman [n=rosen@140.117.71-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 19:38:05< loonycyborg> Interesting.. I wrote a test program that removes the dir using remove() and it fails if cross-compiled and run with wine.
20090119 19:38:19< loonycyborg> While rmdir() works fine.
20090119 19:39:26-!- EdB [n=EdB@208.117.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
20090119 19:40:09< Soliton> maybe you have to set some flags for recursive remove?
20090119 19:40:11< loonycyborg> If compiled natively, then remove() succeeds.
20090119 19:40:30< loonycyborg> So remove() in wine is definitely broken.
20090119 19:41:13< Soliton> does a native compile work in wine?
20090119 19:41:29< Soliton> sounds like cross-compiling breaks it?
20090119 19:41:33< loonycyborg> natively on linux that is.
20090119 19:42:01< Soliton> oh.
20090119 19:45:28-!- Psyche^ [n=Psyche@g224106230.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 19:49:17< Ivanovic> ESR_: need you for a little proofreading...
20090119 19:49:25< Shadow_Master> the reef changes were by Doc Paterson anyway-
20090119 19:49:46< ESR_> Ivanovic: What needs to be proofread?
20090119 19:49:49< Ivanovic> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23746
20090119 19:49:55< Ivanovic> 1.5.8 announcement
20090119 19:50:01-!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-188-113.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 19:50:22< ESR_> "nclude a bigger amount of bugs" -> "include more bugs"
20090119 19:51:00< ESR_> "since we do change quite a lot" - there's that German excess "do" again, remove it.
20090119 19:51:59 * Ivanovic whistles the "this was in the last 5 dev release announcements"-song...
20090119 19:52:01< Ivanovic> ;)
20090119 19:52:21< ESR_> "free to check" Slightly odd usage there "free to try out"
20090119 19:52:39 * ESR_ whistles the "Yes, and I correect it every time" song.
20090119 19:52:52< Ivanovic> nope, if you corrected it every time, it would be in by now
20090119 19:53:13< Ivanovic> since i always use an exact copy of the last announcement before editing (and this is one of the really fixed blocks)
20090119 19:53:40< ESR_> "This is still work in progress, but we are getting closer to a working state." Awkward repetition - I suggest "clean state" instead.
20090119 19:54:43< ESR_> Otherwise OK.
20090119 19:55:03 * shikadibot deals with repetition in translations every day
20090119 19:55:11< Shadow_Master> ehm, ignore that, wrong terminal.
20090119 19:55:18-!- shikadibot [n=sh314001@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/bot/shikadibot] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
20090119 19:55:33< Shadow_Master> ... the worst part is that those repetitions come from the english strings.
20090119 19:55:34< Ivanovic> ESR_: will you have a look at writing a nice 1.6 series annoucement comparable to the 1.4 announcement?
20090119 19:56:02< ESR_> Yes.  What Sorts of things do you want in it?
20090119 19:56:35-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacior@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has quit ["leaving"]
20090119 19:56:57< Ivanovic> i'd guess something comparable to this: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/website/start/1.4/template.html?rev=24419&view=markup
20090119 19:57:18< Ivanovic> listing the most important changes (like the great new portaits and the new way of displaying dialog)
20090119 19:58:36< ESR_> Right.  I'll do it.  
20090119 20:00:52< ESR_> I don't think we're all that close to having 1.6 shippable yet, though.  The buglist is not looking good.  We need at least three weeks of serious bug-stomping by Mordante and Dave and myself and anyone else we can round up - there are still crash bugs in the AI, numerous graphics problems and a lot of general messiness.
20090119 20:01:32< Ivanovic> ESR_: yes, the bug list is too long and those stuff has to be fixed
20090119 20:01:36< boucman> ESR_: agreed, but we need to get more advanturous people to play 1.5 to get reports, and we need to have content dev starting to port their stuff
20090119 20:01:41< boucman> it's all about advertisement
20090119 20:01:50< Ivanovic> but the *features* are complete, so the announcement can be written so that translators got some time to work on it, too
20090119 20:02:00< Ivanovic> i don't think there will be 1.6 before end of febuary
20090119 20:02:02< ESR_> That's a point.
20090119 20:02:27-!- Patterner [n=Psyche@g224019198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090119 20:02:28-!- Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
20090119 20:03:03< Ivanovic> updated the frontpage, too
20090119 20:03:10< Ivanovic> please check
20090119 20:03:19< ESR_> End of February seems realistic if we can get that three weeks of bug stomping into the next month.
20090119 20:07:00< ESR_> Ivanovic: If you want to release in February, I think it's time to preannounce a feature freeze after 1.5.9
20090119 20:07:42< Ivanovic> uhm, that we *are* in feature freeze already should be well known to devs
20090119 20:08:06< VladimirSlavik> Is the string freeze soft or hard anyway?
20090119 20:08:15< Ivanovic> soft
20090119 20:08:35< Ivanovic> but we are talking about the *feature* freeze
20090119 20:08:44< ESR_> I don't think it is as well known is perhaps it should be -- I believe I've seen a commit announcing a fulfilled FR recently.
20090119 20:17:59-!- VladimirSlavik_ [n=chatzill@136.219.broadband6.iol.cz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 20:21:45 * zookeeper reminds that the portrait system still needs some "features"
20090119 20:21:49< zookeeper> but i guess that's a known exception.
20090119 20:26:53-!- Kest|Fraith [i=ie@adsl-68-73-192-234.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has quit ["What a horrible night to have a curse..."]
20090119 20:44:29-!- Mordante [n=chatzill@roadie.xs4all.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 20:44:48-!- VladimirSlavik [n=chatzill@136.219.broadband6.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090119 20:45:05< Mordante> hi
20090119 20:52:18-!- YogiHH [i=YogiHH@d085140.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 20:52:53-!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@moinmoin/developer/karol] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 20:53:14< zookeeper> yo mordante
20090119 20:53:25< Mordante> hi zookeeper 
20090119 20:55:48-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.247.74] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net/"]
20090119 20:56:24-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@79.139.247.74] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090119 20:58:18-!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-188-113.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090119 21:03:46< zookeeper> Mordante, for simulating the new portraits with speaker=narrator, i presume adding a profile= to [message] would be enough?
20090119 21:04:02< zookeeper> that seems like the easiest way to me
20090119 21:04:42< zookeeper> hmh...
20090119 21:04:55< Mordante> I don't think that will work, I think it uses the profile of the speaker
20090119 21:05:16< zookeeper> yes, i was just a suggestion
20090119 21:05:23< zookeeper> s/i/it
20090119 21:05:45< Mordante> well I want to make it work without any wml changes
20090119 21:06:02< zookeeper> not possible
20090119 21:06:14< Mordante> why not?
20090119 21:06:34< zookeeper> because not all message images can be displayed the same way
20090119 21:06:48< zookeeper> if you have a 72x72 image it'll look silly in the very bottom left corner
20090119 21:06:53< zookeeper> whereas a portrait needs to be there
20090119 21:07:06< zookeeper> so [message] needs both the old image= and some new profile=
20090119 21:07:22< zookeeper> the former placing the image in...some nice way, the latter placing it like a portrait
20090119 21:07:48< Mordante> I can filter on the size
20090119 21:07:59< zookeeper> hmm...that might work
20090119 21:08:38< zookeeper> but i'm not sure if that'd work well in all cases
20090119 21:08:42-!- ABCD [n=abcd@wikipedia/ABCD] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 21:08:43< zookeeper> it might, or it might not
20090119 21:09:17-!- grzybacz [i=grzywacz@kolos.math.uni.lodz.pl] has quit ["owww!"]
20090119 21:10:49< zookeeper> at least one case i think an automatic size-filter would need to handle is when you use ~CROP()
20090119 21:10:55< zookeeper> (crop a small section of a big image)
20090119 21:12:30-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@66-189-14-42.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090119 21:12:42-!- Elvish_Pillage2 [n=eli@66-189-14-42.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 21:13:09< zookeeper> also if we're now going to have any right-side portraiting in 1.6, we also need one extra key for specifying the side
20090119 21:13:43< zookeeper> so that's one or two new [message] keys to handle everything (i think), not too bad i guess
20090119 21:14:08< Mordante> you mean that the user can select it?
20090119 21:14:37< zookeeper> err, the scenario author
20090119 21:15:01< Mordante> uhm yes they are the user in this case ;-)
20090119 21:16:58< zookeeper> well, i think that either we stick to left-side portraits only (which probably won't happen because of the artists ;) or allow people to actually use the right-side functionality so that things don't end up looking silly with only 1 dialog out of 100 being right-side
20090119 21:18:51< zookeeper> IMO the worst option would be to keep some unit type portraits right-side only, but prevent the user from specifying the side in cases where the portrait hasn't been limited to right-side only
20090119 21:21:21< Mordante> well I can add the option for the user to specify the side, which gets ignored when it clashes with the wishes of the artits
20090119 21:21:41< Mordante> I think we have 5 one-side only portraits at the moment
20090119 21:21:54< Mordante> (not counting the old portraits)
20090119 21:22:02< zookeeper> maybe a secret option to override the wish of the artist :>?
20090119 21:22:54< Mordante> that's always possible, just override the profile :-P
20090119 21:23:23< zookeeper> true enough
20090119 21:24:09 * zookeeper wonders what the key should be called
20090119 21:24:12< zookeeper> side= won't do..
20090119 21:25:09< Mordante> portrait_side
20090119 21:25:20< zookeeper> facing=left|right ?
20090119 21:25:21< boucman> border=
20090119 21:25:28< VladimirSlavik_> align?
20090119 21:25:48< boucman> hmm
20090119 21:25:52< boucman> align sounds good
20090119 21:26:03< zookeeper> it's not just aligning, it's also mirroring
20090119 21:27:00< Mordante> facing sounds bad IMO, just like the nothern wind, does it go north or does it come from the north
20090119 21:27:25< zookeeper> right
20090119 21:27:47< zookeeper> well, i guess align= is still pretty good
20090119 21:28:44< Mordante> I'm not too fond of it, but it seems three people like it ;-)
20090119 21:29:49< boucman> Mordante: I understand why you don't really like it but that's the best we have
20090119 21:30:19< zookeeper> ok, then there's that image placement issue. i'd say that small images (like the unit image of portraitless units, and item images, etc) should be centered on the available space, instead of being in the bottom left corner.
20090119 21:30:21< isaac> leftbound
20090119 21:30:23< isaac> rightbound
20090119 21:30:39< isaac> isn't facing good?
20090119 21:30:56< zookeeper> Mordante, the dialog has a reasonable minimum height, right?
20090119 21:31:06< zookeeper> which doesn't depend on any of the portrait/image dimensions?
20090119 21:32:05< Mordante> the size for the image is aways reserved and we have a minimum height, but that's rather low IIRC, but can be changed
20090119 21:32:21< zookeeper> ok
20090119 21:33:07< Mordante> isaac what key would you give it if we use the values leftbound and rightbound
20090119 21:33:31< isaac> uhm, i don't know, i'd think the 'facing=left|right' is good enough
20090119 21:33:41< isaac> i think 'facing' avoids the 'northern wind' problem
20090119 21:34:15< Mordante> for me it's not clear with facing, because you look at the person
20090119 21:34:20< zookeeper> so what do you think, would it be reasonable to center small 72x72 images both vertically and horizontally on the available empty space so it looks...nice?
20090119 21:35:01< Mordante> tell somebody they have some dirt on their left cheek, how many people instinctively scratch their right side? 
20090119 21:35:23< Mordante> well I want to find a way to make it nice
20090119 21:35:28< Mordante> :-)
20090119 21:35:36< isaac> Mordante: i instinctively scratch my left one
20090119 21:35:50< isaac> Mordante: but sometimes I think the other person might mean my right one
20090119 21:35:59< isaac> Mordante: so i scratch that one
20090119 21:36:09< boucman> facing=viewer_left|viewer_right :)
20090119 21:36:21< isaac> facing=my_left|my_right
20090119 21:36:26< zookeeper> urgh :P
20090119 21:36:32< isaac> yeah, it's getting ugly
20090119 21:36:39< Mordante> I agree with isaac 
20090119 21:36:56< Mordante> that was with the my_left
20090119 21:37:30-!- loonycyborgw32 [i=kvirc@79.139.247.74] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 21:37:40< Mordante> we can do facing viewer_left|viewer_right|my_left|my_right :-P
20090119 21:38:00< loonycyborgw32> remove() fails on directories on native windows too.
20090119 21:38:36< loonycyborgw32> This is either mingw bug, or mingw emulates MS C runtime bug.
20090119 21:39:33< zookeeper> Mordante, if you start UtBS and move to the southwest to trigger the first encounters, it looks like the minimum height (at least the minimum height when there's both a caption and a one-line message to display) is somewhat higher than 72, so it could be centered there. but the dialog perhaps should stretch to accommodate a slightly larger image inside it, like if the user gave a 120x120 image (which probably shouldn't be render
20090119 21:40:04< zookeeper> anyways, i'll go afk for a while.. ->
20090119 21:44:07< Mordante> The minimum height is about 75 pixels excluding the borders
20090119 21:48:13-!- elias [n=elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090119 21:56:50< loonycyborgw32> Lovely! http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/2da4hk1d.aspx <- it doesn't say anything about deleting directories.
20090119 21:57:25< VladimirSlavik_> you need something from shell to delete "anything"
20090119 21:58:23< loonycyborgw32> On unix systems remove() also deletes empty directories.
20090119 21:58:49< VladimirSlavik_> eh, a system which seems cleverly designed
20090119 21:59:20< loonycyborgw32> And code which deletes addons relies on this behavior.
20090119 21:59:41< VladimirSlavik_> shame there isn't some higher level standard C(++) lib for file operations
20090119 21:59:53< VladimirSlavik_> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb762164(VS.85).aspx
20090119 22:00:08< VladimirSlavik_> this one should work
20090119 22:00:15< loonycyborgw32> Therefore when deleting an addon on windows, you get a lovely error message and lot of emty directories where addon was installed.
20090119 22:00:16< Mordante> I'm off night
20090119 22:00:28-!- Mordante [n=chatzill@roadie.xs4all.nl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Iceweasel 3.0.5/2008122011]"]
20090119 22:00:29< loonycyborgw32> *empty
20090119 22:01:30< VladimirSlavik_> well, I should go, too - bye!
20090119 22:01:33-!- VladimirSlavik_ [n=chatzill@136.219.broadband6.iol.cz] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090119 22:10:19-!- fnaek [n=fnaek@athedsl-4507612.home.otenet.gr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 22:10:46-!- loonycyborgw32 [i=kvirc@79.139.247.74] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"]
20090119 22:12:42-!- fabi [n=fabi@e179056045.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 22:12:43< grzywacz> No filesystem operations in boost? ;-p
20090119 22:12:51< fabi> hi
20090119 22:12:59< fabi> hi fnaek
20090119 22:13:06-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@79.139.247.74] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 22:13:43-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.247.74] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 22:14:08< Soliton> hmm, the history of the mp nick and addon server address behave weirdly. you first have to do down, up, up to get to the previous entry at first.
20090119 22:14:43< Soliton> unlikely many figure that out by accident...
20090119 22:15:57< loonycyborg> grzywacz: He was referring to a *standard* library.
20090119 22:16:09< loonycyborg> And boost::filesystem isn't one. Yet.
20090119 22:17:29-!- Noyga [n=lame-z@AVelizy-151-1-46-204.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"]
20090119 22:20:26< fnaek> hi fabi
20090119 22:21:42< fnaek> fabi, with the new heal is there any default telling the AI to do a full heal or does one nee dto compute how many heal points are needed first?
20090119 22:22:49< fabi> fnaek: I thought not assigning anything to amount would do a full heal. But this is false use amount=999. That is ugly but give you a full heal. I would prefer a heal=yes attribute to the unstore_unit tag.
20090119 22:25:50< fnaek> Yes, I think a default should be  added to the heal functionality.  So something like {FOREACH {VAR} i}
20090119 22:25:52< fnaek>         [unstore_unit]
20090119 22:25:52< fnaek>             variable={VAR}[$i]
20090119 22:25:52< fnaek>             find_vacant=yes
20090119 22:25:52< fnaek>         [/unstore_unit]
20090119 22:25:53< fnaek>     {NEXT i}
20090119 22:26:18< fnaek> I meant heal instead of unstore and amount=999 should do
20090119 22:27:48< fabi> yes, you don't need the find_vacant in a heal tag.
20090119 22:28:19< fnaek> of course    {FOREACH {VAR} i}
20090119 22:28:21< fnaek>         [heal_unit]
20090119 22:28:21< fnaek>             variable={VAR}[$i]
20090119 22:28:21< fnaek>             amount=999
20090119 22:28:21< fnaek>         [/heal_unit]
20090119 22:28:44< fabi> looks fine
20090119 22:29:56-!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe9ff800-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
20090119 22:29:57< fnaek> That ought to take care of the unstore.  Except it should not  do find_vacant=yes, but get these units to appear near a specified location; the way it is it seems to tell AI "put them any vaant hex you can find"
20090119 22:33:15< grzywacz> loonycyborg, I wasn't referring to what he had been referring to. Just mentioning boost. ;p
20090119 22:33:26-!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-188-113.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 22:33:32< fabi> fnaek: give the unstore_unit a x= and a y= and find_vacant_yes, without that they are played to the location they had in the situation you stored them.
20090119 22:34:12< fabi> fnaek: did you code the switch of the protagonists or was that ESR_ ?
20090119 22:36:39< fabi> s/played/placed
20090119 22:36:56< fabi> s/find_vacant_yes/find_vacant=yes
20090119 22:42:38< Rhonda> Ivanovic: http://packages.debian.org/experimental/source/wesnoth - yes. :)
20090119 22:42:53< fabi> fnaek: I found a bug. In scenario 16, the wesnoth_recall can't work. This is a story only scenario without side definitions.
20090119 22:43:45-!- kitty_ [n=kitty@e180223178.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 22:50:06-!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe9ff800-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 22:51:42< CIA-6> loonycyborg * r32233 /trunk/src/filesystem.cpp: 
20090119 22:51:42< CIA-6> Fixed Add-ons -> Remove Add-ons failing on windows.
20090119 22:51:42< CIA-6> This was caused by using remove() to delete directories which
20090119 22:51:42< CIA-6> removes only files on windows. Used rmdir() for that purpose instead.
20090119 22:54:55-!- fnaek [n=fnaek@athedsl-4507612.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090119 22:55:03-!- fnaek [n=fnaek@athedsl-4496853.home.otenet.gr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 22:55:55< fabi> fnaek: have you read the message about the bug in scenario 16?
20090119 22:56:09< fnaek> no, I was disconnected
20090119 22:56:56-!- norbert_ [n=norbert_@82-171-70-54.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 22:57:07< fabi> in scenario16 you try to unstore units with that macro. The variable is called wesnoth_store. This can't work there. The scenario is a story only one with no side definitions.
20090119 22:57:23< loonycyborg> fnaek:  http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ :)
20090119 22:57:49< loonycyborg> Of course if that was irc message..
20090119 22:58:28< norbert_> hi all; for your information: campaign Coming of the Storm by Trashman has version 1.11, but it failes when going from "The Raid" to "Silent Night"
20090119 22:58:59< Turuk_> All well and good Norbert, but we are strictly concerned with mainline campaigns
20090119 22:59:02< fnaek> Yes, I thought I had fixed that!
20090119 22:59:10< Turuk_> That is a problem you will have to take up with him ;)
20090119 22:59:19< norbert_> Turuk_: ok
20090119 22:59:53< Turuk_> If the developers were to account for all of the User-Made Content as well, they would have no free time to work on the game.  Has he made any attempt to correct the problem?
20090119 23:00:07< fabi> fnaek: Not in svn.
20090119 23:04:33< fnaek> Well, not in the version I was using either!
20090119 23:07:38< thespaceinvader> hey kitty_
20090119 23:07:59< fabi> fnaek: I have that delfador being lvl one again at scenario 15.
20090119 23:08:02< kitty_> hey thespaceinvader  too much c&c? 
20090119 23:08:14< thespaceinvader> no, looks fine
20090119 23:08:31< thespaceinvader> i've fixed the thinderer, if you could take one last look before i commit?
20090119 23:08:37< thespaceinvader> thunderer
20090119 23:08:50< thespaceinvader> why do I keep making that typo?
20090119 23:09:31< CIA-6> soliton * r32234 /trunk/changelog: current version is 1.5.8+svn
20090119 23:09:35< kitty_> ok, then commit the thunderer  :)
20090119 23:09:46< thespaceinvader> will do =)
20090119 23:10:04< fnaek> fabi, I still have the problem with  Delfador being a journeyman mage in scenario 18, nothing is recallable and  elves are recruitable. Delf is ok in scenario 15
20090119 23:10:31-!- Canageek [n=Canageek@vlan360-044-116.maconline.McMaster.CA] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 23:10:38< kitty_> thespaceinvader: and the lord's pose looks good, too! classic! 
20090119 23:10:50< thespaceinvader> thanks kitty_ =)
20090119 23:16:40-!- boucman [n=rosen@140.117.71-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090119 23:16:47-!- Canageek [n=Canageek@vlan360-044-116.maconline.McMaster.CA] has quit ["Tell me why are we/so blind to see/that the ones we hurt/are you and me"]
20090119 23:17:41-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit ["leaving"]
20090119 23:17:48-!- ABCD_ [n=abcd@pool-173-71-204-106.clppva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 23:18:15< fabi> fnaek: I did a commit, please do a update.
20090119 23:20:15< fnaek> All I got from the update is scenario 12
20090119 23:20:36< CIA-6> thespaceinvader * r32235 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Add my portrait for the Dwarf Thunderer, update changelog
20090119 23:22:36< fabi> fnaek: yes, that is right. Only changes to 12.
20090119 23:23:09< fnaek> So we still have no explanation of why delf reverts to level 1
20090119 23:23:15< Ivanovic> i am off to bed, n8
20090119 23:26:18-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.214] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090119 23:34:30< fabi> fnaek: Yes, I have no idea.
20090119 23:36:26< fnaek> ok,  I'll take another look. Meanwhile I need to try 1.5.8 to see if the bug where the generic pictures are used instead of the campaign ones is fixed
20090119 23:36:33< fabi> fnaek: I used the debug mode and the n command to skip to scenario 15 where I loose him.
20090119 23:36:45< fabi> fnaek: That is fixed in the 1.5.8.
20090119 23:36:51< fnaek> No, scenario 15 works fine with me
20090119 23:37:00< fnaek> Ok, great about 1.5.8
20090119 23:37:07< fabi> did you use the skip command?
20090119 23:37:08-!- norbert_ [n=norbert_@82-171-70-54.ip.telfort.nl] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090119 23:37:18< fnaek> No, I played the whole campaign
20090119 23:37:37< fabi> That must be It.
20090119 23:37:47< fnaek> Let's hope so
20090119 23:37:52< fabi> can you try to reproduce with the skip on?`
20090119 23:38:30< fabi> We need to get the skip and the choose scenario cl command as soon as possible. They are the key for easy testing.
20090119 23:38:45< fnaek> Well, I need to start from some scenario, else Delf will be a journeyman mage, right?
20090119 23:38:48< grzywacz> thespaceinvader, \o/
20090119 23:39:10< thespaceinvader> grzywcz =) what's that for?
20090119 23:39:20< thespaceinvader> gryzwacz even
20090119 23:39:37< thespaceinvader> nope grzywacz
20090119 23:39:42< thespaceinvader> gah, your name is hard to type
20090119 23:39:42< grzywacz> thespaceinvader, just expressing that I like your art ;) :D
20090119 23:39:44< fabi> fnaek: No idea from which you need to start.
20090119 23:39:48< grzywacz> thespaceinvader, use tab? ;)
20090119 23:39:51< thespaceinvader> thanks =)
20090119 23:40:07< thespaceinvader> grzywacz: why did i not know that?
20090119 23:40:08< fabi> zookeeper: ping
20090119 23:40:14< thespaceinvader> well, learn something new every day
20090119 23:40:14< grzywacz> thespaceinvader, no clue ;)
20090119 23:40:40< zookeeper> fabi, pong?
20090119 23:41:03< fabi> zookeeper: Do you have time to help fnaek and me with DM?
20090119 23:41:35-!- kitty_ [n=kitty@e180223178.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["good night"]
20090119 23:41:55< fabi> We loose persistence at scenario 15 when skipped to with :n .
20090119 23:42:01< zookeeper> not much, but maybe a bit
20090119 23:42:27< fnaek> zookeeper, when playing through, we lose persistence 3 scenarios later
20090119 23:42:43< fabi> When skipped with n the victory event is called, isn't it?
20090119 23:42:56< zookeeper> yes
20090119 23:43:07< zookeeper> but no others
20090119 23:43:24< fabi> Does [fire_event] work?
20090119 23:43:54< fabi> And is a unit restored in such a fired event from a victory event added to the recall list?
20090119 23:43:59< zookeeper> what do you mean? of course it works
20090119 23:44:41< fnaek> fire event works in scenario 14
20090119 23:45:00-!- YogiHH [i=YogiHH@d085140.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit ["Verlassend"]
20090119 23:45:08< fabi> yeah, but why is delfador not recallable in 15 if the event works in 14?
20090119 23:45:23-!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@moinmoin/developer/karol] has quit [":wq"]
20090119 23:45:29< fnaek> In my version he is
20090119 23:47:21< zookeeper> i don't see why that wouldn't work
20090119 23:48:16< fabi> zookeeper: save_id?
20090119 23:48:20< fnaek> What I have is scenario 18 not working.
20090119 23:49:00< fabi> save_id is default to the leader_name.
20090119 23:49:09< fabi> maybe it switched to kalenz somehow.
20090119 23:49:47< fnaek> in scenario 15, Kalenz and Delf are both in the initial keep; I move Kalenz and Delf still recruits
20090119 23:50:14< fabi> fnaek: can you reproduce the scenario 15 bug from beginning with the skip scenario command?
20090119 23:50:54< fnaek> Let me try. remind me how to start with debug?
20090119 23:51:02< fabi> wesnoth --debug
20090119 23:51:42< zookeeper> well, at least you can always do it the old fashioned way and switch recall lists and leaders around manually
20090119 23:51:45< zookeeper> i'm off now, bye
20090119 23:51:47-!- zookeeper [n=l@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe9ff800-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit []
20090119 23:51:50< fnaek> btw I get a message 01:01:18 error engine: could not de-serialize unit: 'load_game_failed: Attempt to de-serialize a unit with no 'type' field (probably empty)'
20090119 23:53:09-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.214] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 23:53:41-!- Sirp_ [n=me@c-71-198-3-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 23:53:45-!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-188-113.vinita.lt] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090119 23:54:43< fnaek> fabi, now how do I go to scenario 15?
20090119 23:54:57< fabi> press shift+n
20090119 23:55:06< fabi> sorry, shift + :
20090119 23:55:45< Soliton> (not everyone has to press shift for ':'.)
20090119 23:55:53< fabi> oh
20090119 23:56:00< fabi> yes
20090119 23:57:04< fabi> the command is n to skip and cl to choose a scenario. You need to fight with delfador once to give him some little exp to see if it is reseted to 0.
20090119 23:58:04-!- Turuk_ [n=JDiSab@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090119 23:58:19-!- Turuk [n=JDiSab@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090119 23:58:51< fnaek> from scenario 2 (before delf fights) if I go to scenario 15, Kalenz is the leader and Delfador is nowhere
20090119 23:59:10< fabi> Zookeeper is right, I don't know exactly how the old fashioned way would be implemented. But that side persistent system is very fragile. I had a serious bug in wml as well after messing with it.
20090119 23:59:34< fabi> fnaek: That is no surprise. you need to target the level in which the delfador_variable is set.
20090119 23:59:44< fabi> should be 12
20090119 23:59:51< fnaek> Yes, that's right
--- Log closed Tue Jan 20 00:00:13 2009