--- Log opened Thu Jan 22 00:00:03 2009
--- Day changed Thu Jan 22 2009
20090122 00:00:03< thespaceinvader> i'm actually waiting on LordBob to see how he colours his work
20090122 00:00:16< thespaceinvader> normally my overlays run to no more complexthan messing with opacity
20090122 00:00:25< thespaceinvader> i really should work out what all those layer modes do...
20090122 00:01:21< kitty_> really painting is always better imho, layers are just quick and dirty (but good enough for our little portraits most of the time)
20090122 00:01:31< thespaceinvader> yeah, indeed
20090122 00:01:47< kitty_> if you get lordbob to write a metal shading tut would be awesome!
20090122 00:02:21< thespaceinvader> and they certainly do make it easier to do certain things, such as (for instance) the embroidery on the D'guard's cloak
20090122 00:02:42< thespaceinvader> i sent lordbob a PM the other day, he said he's working on something
20090122 00:02:54< thespaceinvader> hopefully in parallel with the pikeman's shading
20090122 00:04:09< kitty_> woho!
20090122 00:05:21< Turuk> What is with the artists lately?
20090122 00:05:41< Turuk> Are there billboards throughout stores saying Wesnoth.org needs artists? People keep flocking here :P
20090122 00:05:49< kitty_> :D
20090122 00:05:58< Turuk> Did you see the new guy kitty?
20090122 00:06:04< kitty_> which?
20090122 00:06:07< Turuk> It's not just artists either, but artists with potential ;)
20090122 00:06:12< Turuk> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23778
20090122 00:06:24< Turuk> (or at least potential to be shaped into Wesnoth style)
20090122 00:06:27< kitty_> i just posted there...
20090122 00:06:56< thespaceinvader> unfortunately, he doesn't do digital
20090122 00:07:05 * Turuk 's browser is 4 minutes behind kitty then. ;)
20090122 00:07:15< thespaceinvader> but i think he could be a great addition to our sketcher base, along with Girgistan
20090122 00:07:25< Turuk> Ah, he could help with your comic book style then, no?
20090122 00:07:38< kitty_> yeah, we seem to get line/sketch artists more easily than painters/shaders....
20090122 00:08:17< Turuk> Given the level of complexity needed to do that latter?
20090122 00:08:57< kitty_> and that's why i don't believe in the comicbook workflow in the long run. who is able to paint well enough can sketch, too. why should he just finish up the fun others had design. (i'd do that only for money)
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20090122 00:09:29< thespaceinvader> Turuk: that's the idea, yeah
20090122 00:09:54< thespaceinvader> kitty_: I actually find that my inking, with a basic sketch, is up to scratch
20090122 00:10:07< thespaceinvader> but i find it difficult to come up with unique costuming and dynamic poses
20090122 00:10:19< Turuk> thanks thespaceinvader, I have a rough idea of what it would take but my knowledge of how to create art is limited
20090122 00:10:19< Sirp_> kitty_: I think in a project like Wesnoth we have a very different approach to commercial projects. Namely, it must be fun.
20090122 00:10:25< thespaceinvader> i'm looking forward to working on Girgistan's drake sketches, for instance
20090122 00:10:49< thespaceinvader> and i could not come up with something like that in my current stage od artistic development
20090122 00:10:56< kitty_> thespaceinvader really? your dwarves come out much more dynamical - you are improving...
20090122 00:11:06< thespaceinvader> similarly, I'd never have gotten the SotBE stuff alone
20090122 00:11:06< Sirp_> kitty_: and that is the ultimate excuse any developer can use at any time. Often a developer might be told "no! You shouldn't work on X, A, B, and C are SO much more important" to which the developer can simply answer, "X is more fun for me right now."
20090122 00:11:15< thespaceinvader> kitty_: thanks
20090122 00:11:36< thespaceinvader> I like dwarves, I have a reasonable idea of their costuming quite well - chain mail and armour
20090122 00:11:44< thespaceinvader> big axes, celtic knots
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20090122 00:12:20< thespaceinvader> but i think Girgistan in particular has come up with some interesting concepts i never would have
20090122 00:12:30< thespaceinvader> particularly on stuff like the death knight
20090122 00:12:42< thespaceinvader> which, incidentally, was awesome to see in-game for the first time the other day
20090122 00:13:16< kitty_> Sirp_:  of course, i just said that i can't imagine that it is really fun to be just a colourist in the long run. art is about inventing, designing etc. too and all that happens in the stage the other person does... if somebody, like tsi, likes that's great! i just can't imagine that this model attracts many artists
20090122 00:13:47< kitty_> thespaceinvader: yeah, really seeing one's stuff in game is a great motivator! :)
20090122 00:13:53< thespaceinvader> yup
20090122 00:14:20< thespaceinvader> i think the thing that's making my dwarves better this time is relying heavily on photo reference for posing
20090122 00:15:03< kitty_> and that's a perfectly valid method
20090122 00:15:15< thespaceinvader> i think that might be my biggest lesson from my current project actually - i tended in the past to try to work out my poses out of my head, and they tended to come out...wrong, really
20090122 00:16:20< kitty_> it's like jetryl says all the time: the pictures in your head are all wrong. you'll spend years correcting them. (but photos lie, too ;) )
20090122 00:16:32< thespaceinvader> i know
20090122 00:16:42< thespaceinvader> it's a reason why i enjoyed the saurians
20090122 00:16:49< Sirp_> kitty_: I agree completely. :) I would find just coloring rather boring.
20090122 00:16:58< thespaceinvader> difficult to have a wrong picture in your head when the creature doesn't exist
20090122 00:17:15< kitty_> thespaceinvader:  haha
20090122 00:17:17< thespaceinvader> though some reference on the legs was still useful
20090122 00:17:39< kitty_> which one are you talking about?
20090122 00:18:08< thespaceinvader> both of them - i looked a bit on dinosaurs to work out how the joints work
20090122 00:19:31< kitty_> Sirp_:  not really, colouring and texturizing is pretty challenging in it's own way! we don't use simple cell shading...  it's simply more satisfying (for me) to create something on my own, i think.
20090122 00:20:12< thespaceinvader> Sirp_: on the contrary, I find colouring quite interesting - as kitty says, it can be a fun challenge
20090122 00:20:14< Turuk> etuwiklo809p;-[]
20090122 00:20:36< Turuk> Ignore that please, I dropped something on my computer.
20090122 00:21:00< thespaceinvader> and when a sketch is reasonably open to interpretation, as with girgistan's for SotBE, there can be some interesting creative excercises as well
20090122 00:21:13< Sirp_> oh I'm just it's challenging. I would find *just* coloring boring. :p
20090122 00:21:31< thespaceinvader> lol, to each his own
20090122 00:21:32< Sirp_> just like I would find only programming super-optimized WML boring. :)
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20090122 01:10:04< JordiGH> Ooh, the music.
20090122 01:10:06< JordiGH> It's gotten so good.
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20090122 08:41:14< Sirp_> mordocai: did you ever get an answer on the list of things you need to know about C++ to contribute to Wesnoth?
20090122 08:42:12< Sirp_> mordocai: there is a "C++ Quiz" to test your knowledge on this page: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/HackingWesnoth
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20090122 09:47:27< CIA-6> ivanovic * r32253 /trunk/ (7 files in 6 dirs): updated Czech translation (now (almost) at 100% (just the -test domain missing...)
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20090122 11:57:21< CIA-6> ivanovic * r32254 /trunk/po/wesnoth-test/cs.po: updated Czech translation (now really complete)
20090122 11:58:10< VladimirSlavik> thanks
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20090122 15:19:38< Rhonda> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/?rev=32245&view=rev - is there a way in the svn web interface to get the diff for the _whole_ commit and not seperated by file?
20090122 15:20:14 * Rhonda . o O ( and noone says svn diff -c32245 http://svn.gna.org/svn/wesnoth/ )
20090122 15:20:43< Rhonda> I think that commit might be a good candidate for the 1.4 branch, too.
20090122 15:21:27< loonycyborg> I just wanted to say that :P
20090122 15:21:51< Rhonda> Which? The 1.4 branch thing or the svn client thing?
20090122 15:22:01< Soliton> there are a couple more commits this one is based on.
20090122 15:22:05< loonycyborg> svn diff thing
20090122 15:22:34< Rhonda> Soliton: You sure about that? It looks pretty straight forward, or do I read it wrong?
20090122 15:24:09< loonycyborg> Actally, git cherry-pick would work best with merging to 1.4 :)
20090122 15:24:10< Soliton> you can't possible see in a single commit whether it's based on previous commits and would not cleanly apply to 1.4.
20090122 15:24:45< loonycyborg> Maybe it even takes care of dependent patches..
20090122 15:24:50< Soliton> check out previous 3 or 4 commits and you'll see.
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20090122 15:52:50< Rhonda> Soliton: There's nothing that looks similar related the the commits before?
20090122 15:53:06< Rhonda> Like, indentation change, documentation change, image :)
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20090122 15:58:13 * Soliton shrugs. try and backport it then.
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20090122 16:39:15< Rhonda> Soliton: Will, keep you updated. :)
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20090122 18:20:30< Sirp_> hi
20090122 18:20:52< fabi> hi Sirp_
20090122 18:36:08< Ivanovic> hi
20090122 18:44:49< Ivanovic> okay, does anyone know this dude named "Greg Copeland"?
20090122 18:45:16< Ivanovic> i don't, so i don't understand this part of his mail: "I've been tied up for a while and have not had time to participate in Wesnoth development for some time."
20090122 18:45:21< loonycyborg> AFAIK Greg Copeland == BilndOracle
20090122 18:45:26< Ivanovic> ahhhhh
20090122 18:45:38< loonycyborg> *BlindOracle
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20090122 18:57:58< Ivanovic> Sirp_: good that you are around
20090122 18:58:00< Ivanovic> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m23d99ec
20090122 18:58:17< Ivanovic> your latest changes in simple_wml on my box (64bit gentoo with gcc 4.3.x)
20090122 19:00:20< Soliton> those are just warnings.
20090122 19:00:36< Ivanovic> jey, and warnings are to be treated as errors, so fix the warnings
20090122 19:00:38< Ivanovic> ;)
20090122 19:00:56< loonycyborg> loonybot << TYPE(size_t)
20090122 19:00:57< loonybot> unsigned int
20090122 19:01:23< loonycyborg> int != unsigned int
20090122 19:01:52< loonycyborg> Use %u instead of %d :)
20090122 19:06:23< Ivanovic> and yeah, on my 32bit system there is no such warning...
20090122 19:07:32< loonycyborg> On mine either. That's why I don't commit %u fix.
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20090122 19:11:04< Ivanovic> beside this: why does Sirp_ use fprint there and not std::cerr ?
20090122 19:11:18< Ivanovic> by just piping it in, it should work nicely...
20090122 19:12:18< loonycyborg> The right question is: why he doesn't use wesnoth's own logging facilities instead if printf :)
20090122 19:12:24< Ivanovic> :)
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20090122 19:14:19< Ivanovic> Sirp_: so, uhm, around?
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20090122 19:20:56< Shadow_Master> um... why the  "armour tutorial" is in art dev.?
20090122 19:21:07< Shadow_Master> for new contributors, it should be in art contribs. instead..
20090122 19:21:42< Turuk_> People can still read those, they just cannot post in them
20090122 19:21:56< Turuk_> And because LordBob asked my nicely? ;)
20090122 19:22:01< Turuk_> *my->me
20090122 19:22:40< Shadow_Master> um... you can always post a sticky and lock it so only moderators and devs can modify or post stuff
20090122 19:23:17< Turuk_> Right, but I was working per request
20090122 19:23:25< Turuk_> I know how the system works.
20090122 19:25:20< Turuk_> I believe his logic went along the lines of those who have the skill to adequately learn and apply those effects would be the men (and women) in blue anyways
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20090122 19:27:04< Shadow_Master> who don't always pay attention to the closed forums (hey, they don't need to be smart and responsible, if not, think Synerr)
20090122 19:27:52< Turuk_> probably your best point was made with those last few words
20090122 19:27:59< Turuk_> I'll PM him about it, see what he would like to do
20090122 19:28:21< Sirp_> Ivanovic: I'm kind of around
20090122 19:28:26< Sirp_> Ivanovic: what's up?
20090122 19:30:01< Shadow_Master> Sirp_: on 64-bit systems (only?) simple_wml.cpp is causing some compiler warnings
20090122 19:30:15< Shadow_Master> <Ivanovic> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m23d99ec
20090122 19:30:48-!- [Relic] [n=[Relic]@76.229.202.137] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090122 19:30:59< Shadow_Master> it should probably be %u instead of %d, but why use printf() or fprintf() instead of std::cerr or our logging facilities?
20090122 19:31:07< Ivanovic> Shadow_Master: on my 32bit laptop with the same version of the gcc it is not creating warnings
20090122 19:31:22< Ivanovic> Sirp_: in general: why not use std::cerr or the wesnoth logging facilities?
20090122 19:31:27< Sirp_> ahhh
20090122 19:31:34< Ivanovic> and just replacing with %u is not working either
20090122 19:31:47< [Relic]> Hello :)
20090122 19:31:47< Ivanovic> server/simple_wml.cpp:352: error: format '%u' expects type 'unsigned int', but argument 4 has type 'size_t'
20090122 19:31:50< Sirp_> that's just temporary code that was used for Soliton and I to debug a problem in the server
20090122 19:31:52< Ivanovic> hi [Relic]
20090122 19:31:58< Sirp_> it's ready to be removed now; I will remove it.
20090122 19:32:16< [Relic]> :)
20090122 19:32:44< Ivanovic> if it is still needed, at least make it std::cerr instead of fprintf and the problems would be gone
20090122 19:35:17< CIA-6> dave * r32255 /trunk/src/server/simple_wml.cpp: removed debugging statements
20090122 19:36:05< Sirp_> Ivanovic: should be fixed.
20090122 19:38:10< Ivanovic> okay, works
20090122 19:38:26< Ivanovic> (obvious since the statements were the problem and with them gone...)
20090122 19:38:56< Sirp_> :)
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20090122 20:49:15< Shadow_Master> fabi: next time you see santi around and discuss DM, please do it in #wesnoth-umc-dev or in private
20090122 20:49:21< Shadow_Master> erh, hi fnaek 
20090122 20:49:45-!- Mordante [n=chatzill@roadie.xs4all.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090122 20:49:56< Mordante> hi
20090122 20:50:05< Shadow_Master> ho
20090122 20:50:23< Mordante> hi Shadow_Master 
20090122 20:50:37< Mordante> good to see the portait bug is an old engine bug :-)
20090122 20:51:09< fabi> hi fnaek, do you want to join #wesnoth-umc-dev ?
20090122 20:51:11< Shadow_Master> yeah, I guess it's always been there. We just didn't have two identically named portraits in different mainline paths before
20090122 20:51:21< fnaek> Hi   Shadow Master, Mordante
20090122 20:51:31< Mordante> hi fnaek 
20090122 20:51:38< fnaek> Mordante, I have an issue for you with the new portrait code
20090122 20:51:39< Shadow_Master> or noone had the brilliant idea of switching to LoW while playing HttT before
20090122 20:51:53< Mordante> what kind of issue?
20090122 20:52:23< fnaek> Namely Delfador has the campaign portrait as long as he is journeyman mage, but when he levels it reverts to the generic red mage portrait
20090122 20:52:29< fnaek> happens in 1.5.8 trunk
20090122 20:53:02< Mordante> and what happened in 1.5.6?
20090122 20:53:02< fnaek> I can pm you(Skeleton Crew) a savegame
20090122 20:53:44 * Shadow_Master has 1.5.6 installed
20090122 20:53:49< Shadow_Master> * not-installed, just built
20090122 20:54:08< fnaek> 1.5.6 was working fine as I recall. Then 1.5.7 the generic portraits were  being used, and 1.5.8 uses the campaign portraits except when the unit levels when it reverts to generic
20090122 20:54:34< Shadow_Master> 1.5.7: known issue, no need to name it.
20090122 20:54:58 * Shadow_Master testing DM with 1.5.6
20090122 20:55:12< fnaek> right. 1.5.8 is a partial fix though. I think 1.5.6 was fine
20090122 20:55:26< Shadow_Master> it is just so sweet that nowadays I have 100 GB in my /home to spare...
20090122 20:55:55< fnaek> Mordante, should I pm you a savegame?
20090122 20:56:05< Shadow_Master> fnaek, Mordante: the portrait problem occurs in 1.5.6
20090122 20:56:11< Shadow_Master> so it is not specific to the new dialogs
20090122 20:56:38< Shadow_Master> it must be a [base_unit] WML inheritance screw up in the engine.
20090122 20:57:20< fnaek> In 1.5.8 it is partially fixed though
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20090122 21:15:58< Sirp_> hi noy
20090122 21:16:00< Mordante> sorry was on the phone
20090122 21:16:07< noy> hey Sirp_ 
20090122 21:16:15< noy> whats going on today?
20090122 21:16:30< Shadow_Master> Mordante: nah, it turns out to be a ... "misused feature"
20090122 21:16:34< Mordante> but no need to PM me if the bug is present in 1.5.6
20090122 21:16:40< Sirp_> oh not a lot
20090122 21:16:42< Mordante> I won't have time to look at it
20090122 21:16:55< Shadow_Master> I'd say the bug is in DM only
20090122 21:17:18< Shadow_Master> (considering that I once fixed some portrait carry-over stufF)
20090122 21:18:14< CIA-6> mordante * r32256 /trunk/src/multiplayer_connect.cpp: Removed an unused variable.
20090122 21:18:31< Shadow_Master> sorry, lag
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20090122 21:41:06< Mordante> I'm off bye
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20090122 21:49:24< Shadow_Master> Turuk_: semicolon?!
20090122 21:49:33< fabi> Is it possible to get coordinates produced by the games shortest_path_between to a wml variable with formula_ai? I don't want to implement a shortest path between in eml.
20090122 21:49:33< Shadow_Master> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=334261#p334261
20090122 21:50:00< Shadow_Master> Turuk_: are you aware that not all of us use US layouts?
20090122 21:50:11< Shadow_Master> in mine it'd be shift+period
20090122 21:50:51< Turuk_> I was repeating what was already posted
20090122 21:51:19< Turuk_> Well ok then, what would it be in Belgium?
20090122 21:52:23< Shadow_Master> no idea. just say "whatever is needed to get a colon"
20090122 21:52:41< Turuk_> :\ 
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20090122 21:52:58< Shadow_Master> it is much less misleading for a newbie.
20090122 21:53:56< Turuk_> Right.
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20090122 22:36:53< Shadow_Master> ew.
20090122 22:37:02< Shadow_Master> That Ghast sprite is awful..
20090122 22:37:38< Shadow_Master> (and I don't mean the one in DiD)
20090122 22:38:41< Turuk_> Why's that
20090122 22:39:20< Shadow_Master> the concept. It does not seem to be any improvement over the Necrophage
20090122 22:39:33< Shadow_Master> specially now that the Necrophage has a feeding ability.
20090122 22:51:30< Ivanovic> oaky, this one is an interesting question: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=334118#p334118
20090122 22:51:34< Ivanovic> anyone who could know this?
20090122 22:51:47-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has quit []
20090122 22:52:22< Shadow_Master> probably Baufo
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20090122 22:56:30< Ivanovic> ugh
20090122 22:56:46 * Ivanovic just saw that leslies talk at fosdem will be on sunday from 17:15 onwards
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20090122 23:10:22< Thrawnwesnoth> re: the ghast...it's making me want to draw one, their attempts are so...>_<
20090122 23:10:43< Shadow_Master> aha, I'm not alone :)
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20090122 23:34:43< Ivanovic> n8
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--- Log closed Fri Jan 23 00:00:39 2009