--- Log opened Fri Jan 23 00:00:39 2009
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20090123 00:07:56< CIA-6> loonycyborg * r32257 /trunk/projectfiles/CodeBlocks/: Adjusted svn props on projectfiles/CodeBlocks as requested by McShark.
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20090123 00:08:22< CIA-6> dave * r32258 /trunk/src/server/ (simple_wml.cpp simple_wml.hpp): report error messages with simple_wml
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20090123 00:44:51< Shadow_Master> shikadibot_: file /trunk//data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/HISTORY
20090123 00:44:52< shikadibot_> Web interface URL to file /trunk//data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/HISTORY: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk//data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/HISTORY?view=log
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20090123 01:28:27< CIA-6> soliton * r32259 /trunk/src/server/server.cpp: * send a server message to the client when invalid WML is received
20090123 01:30:39< fabi> Why are there that many portrait artists working like crazy at the moment? There must be some galactical radiation around.
20090123 01:31:25< Thrawnwesnoth> Lord Bob is infectous, it seems
20090123 01:31:43< Thrawnwesnoth> a symbiotic parasite XD
20090123 01:31:52< Soliton> galactic radiation is all around us all the time!
20090123 01:31:57< Shadow_Master> fabi: besides LordBob and TSI?
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20090123 01:32:13< Thrawnwesnoth> the tile art is really being worked on again
20090123 01:32:14< Shadow_Master> is some new creature I didn't notice?
20090123 01:32:25< Shadow_Master> oh, that
20090123 01:32:40< Thrawnwesnoth> in general, a lot a talented people are being busy suddenly
20090123 01:32:49< Thrawnwesnoth> mefisto, captain_swing, etc
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20090123 01:32:55< Shadow_Master> this was the time Kitty appeared on  2007.
20090123 01:33:04< Shadow_Master> I guess it has to do with working times
20090123 01:33:19< Shadow_Master> (RL)
20090123 01:35:41< fabi> Is someone coding the terrain and graphic wml for Cernunnos Desert work?
20090123 01:36:02< Shadow_Master> that'd be zookeeper I guess. Those usually work with simple enough macros
20090123 01:36:16< Shadow_Master> (thanks to mgoe it tends to be way easier nowadays)
20090123 01:37:07< fabi> would someone mind if I do it?
20090123 01:37:43< Shadow_Master> I'd recommend you to consult wiht zookeeper first.
20090123 01:39:04< Shadow_Master> really. why people think that berserk "owns"? I consider it the most tactically awful weapon special
20090123 01:39:19< Thrawnwesnoth> because it kills stuff
20090123 01:39:39< Shadow_Master> I wonder if those people also use drugs, have ever murdered little animals, etc.
20090123 01:39:48< fabi> It makes the map less crowded. Whatever happens a unit disappears.
20090123 01:40:07< Thrawnwesnoth> well, in a game where luck has a huge role, having a more gaurenteed chance to get a kill is useful
20090123 01:40:47< Shadow_Master> Even if I put a full HP Berserker on rockbound hills, I get him killed on 90 of 100 attempts
20090123 01:41:06< Shadow_Master> unless the oponent is a DA, I always have bad luck
20090123 01:45:11< Shadow_Master> ... and having a Berserk Potion or custom Berserk units in my campaign was the most awful idea I have had
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20090123 01:46:30< Shadow_Master> Turuk: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=334319#p334319 s/Development/Contributions/
20090123 01:46:58< Turuk> ;) Thanks
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20090123 01:53:58 * Shadow_Master off for dinner
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20090123 02:41:01< CIA-6> soliton * r32260 /trunk/src/server/simple_wml.cpp: * increase allowed nesting level to what the client allows (1000)
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20090123 03:00:16< Shadow_Master> Mordante: do you know anyone else than alink who understands well how image caching is done?
20090123 03:00:40< Shadow_Master> It seems that the LoW-HttT portraits clash in a single Wesnoth session is because the revelant image cache entries are not dropped
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20090123 03:02:57< Shadow_Master> but I don't really understand how the locator thingies work
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20090123 03:10:27< Shadow_Master> dmesg | tail
20090123 03:10:27 * Shadow_Master . O o
20090123 03:14:47< Shadow_Master> at least the binary_path_manager objects seem to be destroyed properly
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20090123 03:53:12< Soliton> i wonder whether the default severity on the bug tracker changed to important or something... people report translation mistakes and i'm-not-sure-if-this-is-a-bug bugs as important...
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20090123 06:42:18< Sirp_> hi noy
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20090123 07:07:39< noy> hey dave
20090123 08:24:48< Kest|Fraith> where did you guys say the starlight chasm tile was located? it doesnt show up in map editor
20090123 08:47:01< noy> no clue...
20090123 08:47:03< noy> sorry kest
20090123 08:47:27< noy> Kest|Fraith: void terrain was its name, wasn't it?
20090123 08:47:33< Kest|Fraith> no
20090123 08:47:42< Kest|Fraith> void is just black and impasssable
20090123 08:47:58< Kest|Fraith> this was like chasm, but with small stars at the bottom
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20090123 10:36:58< Ivanovic> moin
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20090123 11:12:06< Ivanovic> uhm, wesnoth-optipng is currently broken for me:
20090123 11:12:07< Ivanovic> ./utils/wesnoth-optipng
20090123 11:12:09< Ivanovic> convert is not present in PATH. wesnoth-optipng requires it in order to work properly.
20090123 11:12:10< Ivanovic> You can obtain convert at <http://www.imagemagick.org>.
20090123 11:12:14< Ivanovic> since 'convert' 
20090123 11:12:18< Ivanovic> *is* in my path
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20090123 11:14:33< Ivanovic> running wesnoth-optipng now (without those checks that break it for me...)
20090123 11:14:49< Ivanovic> let's see if i can get the space required down a little...
20090123 11:17:18< loonycyborg> Does it fail if you run convert --help 2> /dev/null 1> /dev/null ? :)
20090123 11:18:24< Ivanovic> no, i can run the command
20090123 11:19:39-!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-188-113.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 11:26:58< stikonas> Ivanovic: I've spotted a bug in cmake buildsystem. Can you apply a patch?
20090123 11:27:04< stikonas> Ivanovic: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m3542487c
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20090123 11:28:57< Ivanovic> stikonas: and what exactly is the bug that this will fix?
20090123 11:29:08< stikonas> dummy locales are always built
20090123 11:29:29< stikonas> even if they are turned off during configuration
20090123 11:29:36< Ivanovic> ah, okay
20090123 11:29:39< stikonas> so I moved endif down
20090123 11:30:01< Ivanovic> will have a look at applying when back
20090123 11:30:11< stikonas> thanks
20090123 11:30:24< Ivanovic> now i am off to take a shower, drink some tea, and shop for the stuff i need to get some breakfast/lunch prepared...
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20090123 11:34:30< loonycyborg> Nothing's wrong with building dummy locales unless they're actually used..
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20090123 11:43:42< loonycyborg> In fact, if there's an option to turn off dummy locales in the configuration, then it's a bug.
20090123 11:43:55< loonycyborg> There should be no such option.
20090123 11:44:12< loonycyborg> suokko made dummy locales a runtime option.
20090123 11:44:35< loonycyborg> So they should be built on any platform that requires it.
20090123 12:12:20< stikonas> loonycyborg: like this: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/ma235cc4 
20090123 12:17:48< loonycyborg> USE_DUMMYLOCALES macros isn't used anywhere anymore, so you don't need to add it to definitions.
20090123 12:20:30< loonycyborg> Basically, if nls is enabled and localedef tool is available, you build dummy locales. Otherwise you don't.
20090123 12:21:16< stikonas> loonycyborg: BTW what happened to soukko, has he left wesnoth?
20090123 12:22:00< loonycyborg> Dunno. Maybe he's distracted by work/education and will return during summer..
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20090123 12:59:08< CIA-6> loonycyborg * r32261 /trunk/src/ (malloc.c poolalloc.c): 
20090123 12:59:08< CIA-6> Wrap malloc.c and poolalloc.c in #ifndef DISABLE_POOL_ALLOC
20090123 12:59:08< CIA-6> so they could be included in project files even when poolalloc is disabled.
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20090123 13:04:54< Ivanovic> okay, for your next svn up you will need a while...
20090123 13:05:04 * Ivanovic is just commiting the wesnoth-optipng results...
20090123 13:05:15< markm> hmm sound... sonata for 56k modem... hmm
20090123 13:06:36< markm> hmm... sound... sonata for soundcard.. a program instructing a device to perform output operations... hmm
20090123 13:07:21< markm> (device being lopudspeaker, soundcard is input device for submitting program to loudspeaker...)
20090123 13:08:29< CIA-6> ivanovic * r32262 /trunk/ (353 files in 43 dirs): 
20090123 13:08:29< CIA-6> running utils/wesnoth-optipng
20090123 13:08:29< CIA-6> Overall statistics (only for files with a smaller recompressed size):
20090123 13:08:29< CIA-6> Original size: 24311 KiB on 353 files
20090123 13:08:29< CIA-6> Optimized size: 22803 KiB
20090123 13:08:30< CIA-6> Total saving: 1507 KiB = 6% decrease
20090123 13:09:03< loonycyborg> And sonata being sound waves emitted by the device :P
20090123 13:09:05< Ivanovic> with other words: with your next svn up you will have to fetch at least 22.8MB
20090123 13:16:37< stikonas> loonycyborg: Please apply: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m55a955a1
20090123 13:17:16< stikonas> I've also added check for localedef as you have told
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20090123 13:20:06< loonycyborg> stikonas: That patch is broken because @@ have a meaning for that pastebin. Though I can restore @@ in this particular case since there aren't many of them.
20090123 13:27:11< grzybacz> erm
20090123 13:27:13< grzybacz> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=23799
20090123 13:27:18< grzybacz> :#
20090123 13:38:21 * loonycyborg wonders what :# means
20090123 13:44:57< loonycyborg> stikonas: Done.
20090123 13:45:07 * loonycyborg kicks CIA-6
20090123 13:45:45< stikonas> loonycyborg: thanks
20090123 13:53:10< Rhonda> hmm
20090123 13:53:18< Rhonda> If CIA-6 doesn't even say ouch anymore, that's bad
20090123 13:53:50< loonycyborg> It means that it's pining for the fyords :)
20090123 14:00:51< stikonas> It seems that http://cia.vc is down
20090123 14:01:31< stikonas> so CIA-6 is down too
20090123 14:02:08< fabi_> grzybacz: are you going to answer?
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20090123 14:08:53< grzybacz> fabi_: noooo ;s
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20090123 14:32:59< grzybacz> http://www.viemu.com/ ;-)))
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20090123 16:25:18< markm> modem has time/will to decypher X, soundcard has time/will to decypher Y, loadspeaker has time/will to decypher A(nanlog output from saoundcard?), H(uman) / O(raganic (peripheral or central?) does not?
20090123 16:27:04< markm> (organics, whether central or peripheral, have less time/will - part of 'general unreliability' of 'organic' (leading to assiation of term 'organic' with indeterminism?))
20090123 16:27:57< zookeeper> wtf.
20090123 16:28:03< zookeeper> spambot, please kick
20090123 16:31:45< boucman> zookeeper: not sure, he's also on the forum http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=334425#p334425
20090123 16:36:03< loonycyborg> I've seen *lots* of spambots posting on forums.
20090123 16:36:42< loonycyborg> But the same spambots invading IRC channels is something new :P
20090123 16:37:35< fabi_> and that spambot did write a campaign that is on the add on server. It's ... well, strange.
20090123 16:38:11< fabi_> but funny
20090123 16:38:38< boucman> if spambots can write campaigns, we might hire them to replace the wesnoth map generator :P
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20090123 18:12:18-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacior@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 18:12:40< Shadow_Master> hi
20090123 18:13:28< boucman> hey Shadow_Master
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20090123 18:27:41< Shadow_Master> wesnoth-optipng was run in trunk, eh?
20090123 18:29:33-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.214] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 18:30:17< boucman> IIRC yes, very recently
20090123 18:30:21< loonycyborg> You have no hope of svn up finishing today :P
20090123 18:30:47< Shadow_Master> git svn rebase
20090123 18:31:29-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@66-189-14-42.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 18:32:06< loonycyborg> "git svn rebase" runs "svn up" as a child AFAIK.
20090123 18:32:16< Shadow_Master> nope
20090123 18:32:19< Shadow_Master> it uses libsvn AFAICT
20090123 18:35:14< Shadow_Master> boucman: <Shadow_Master> Mordante: do you know anyone else than alink who understands well how image caching is done?
20090123 18:35:24< Shadow_Master> do you think you know an answer as well? :)
20090123 18:35:42< boucman> is hould, but honnestly I don't remember well
20090123 18:36:38< Shadow_Master> there's a problem with the image cache: it does not drop the entry for "portraits/kalenz.png" if I was playing LoW or HttT and switch to the another unless I issue the :refresh command
20090123 18:37:09< boucman> I thought the cache was completely cleared at each change of ToD
20090123 18:37:15< boucman> no idea how portraits are cached
20090123 18:37:32< Shadow_Master> ideally the relevant entries should be dropped when the relevant binary_path_manager object is destroyed (which it is, btw)
20090123 18:37:59< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: ha, I just finished rebase!
20090123 18:38:31< Shadow_Master> :D
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20090123 18:45:04< zookeeper> uh oh. http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=334529#p334529
20090123 18:45:55< boucman> yeah, we noticed
20090123 18:49:30< thespaceinvader> zookeeper: yeah, I'm just considering a response to that
20090123 18:52:54-!- JW1 [n=X@c-71-57-85-168.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 18:53:52< boucman> thespaceinvader: please wait a little, Sirp is apparently away, and I would like to have his opinion first
20090123 18:53:58< Shadow_Master> so, kitty left us :(
20090123 18:54:01-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@66-189-14-42.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 18:54:15< thespaceinvader> boucman: sure, i'll draft a response and wait
20090123 18:54:37< Shadow_Master> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&p=334529#p334529
20090123 18:54:53< JW1> so like
20090123 18:55:16< JW1> kitty....
20090123 18:56:49< JW1> just another Wesnoth artist scared away?
20090123 18:57:04< Shadow_Master> "scared" is not the word.
20090123 18:57:21< Soliton> bird is the word!
20090123 18:57:22< JW1> pushed?
20090123 18:57:57< Soliton> haven't you heard?
20090123 18:59:45< freim> to bad to see a gifted artist leave, but I fully understand her point of view
20090123 19:00:48 * Turuk seconds.
20090123 19:00:51< thespaceinvader> freim: I agree, but I hope that we can persuade her to be flexible
20090123 19:01:19 * Shadow_Master would be in the same situation if Wesnoth's mainline engine was rewritten in Python for real
20090123 19:01:45< zookeeper> well, sirp's quote is quite old IIRC, maybe he'd just have happened to change his mind since ;)
20090123 19:01:47< freim> well, there is not much flexibility from the other side is there?
20090123 19:01:47< Shadow_Master> not that I really control any territory
20090123 19:02:02< zookeeper> (hint, hint)
20090123 19:02:21< loonycyborg> Shadow_Master: You compare full Python rewrite  and prudish treatment of nuditiy LOL
20090123 19:02:21< thespaceinvader> freim: true
20090123 19:02:24-!- isaac_ [n=isaac@14.Red-88-26-177.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 19:02:27< JW1> it is hard to remove a sour taste from your mouth
20090123 19:02:44< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: it'd be handicapping as well. I'd not be able to write more code until I learned Python
20090123 19:03:01< Shadow_Master> and then I'd think "why did I spend so much %$#%&#$ time learning C++".
20090123 19:03:06< freim> it's the usual attitude that the "liberals" need to relent to the delicate conservatives or some nonsense like that
20090123 19:03:43< loonycyborg> Shadow_Master: There's no way such decision would be made. The very idea of that is silly.
20090123 19:03:44< thespaceinvader> freim: but there are external factors outside those she's raised - nudity is a large part of videogame ratings legislature, and AFAIK, we aim to be PG at most
20090123 19:04:10< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: yes, but I still have my fears. That's for another ML debate session though. :p
20090123 19:05:14< Turuk> For what it's worth, you can have brief nudity in PG movies.
20090123 19:05:50< loonycyborg> thespaceinvader: I'm not even sure whether ESRB etc apply to FLOSS games that aren't sold in stores.
20090123 19:06:18< thespaceinvader> indeed - but even if it doesn't, keeping to it couldn't hurt
20090123 19:06:25< thespaceinvader> or so it thought before...
20090123 19:06:46< freim> thespaceinvader: personally I find most legislature like that to be bollocks, since I can't comprehend why natural nudity is worse than violence, but I see your point
20090123 19:07:13< Turuk> Most rating schemes differentiate between nudity and sexual nudity as well.
20090123 19:07:34< Shadow_Master> perhaps ESR_ can find someone that knows well about that stuff ?
20090123 19:07:40< thespaceinvader> freim: i agree, but the majority of the western world does not
20090123 19:08:12< boucman> thespaceinvader: be carefull, in us nudity has more influence on rating than violence
20090123 19:08:13 * Soliton . o O (because legislature is decided by the majority?)
20090123 19:08:25< boucman> in france (and I gues most of europe) it's the other way round
20090123 19:08:33< boucman> so even that is very dependant on culture
20090123 19:08:45< loonycyborg> thespaceinvader: Majority of western doesn't play wesnoth too :P
20090123 19:08:46< thespaceinvader> boucman: i know
20090123 19:09:18< thespaceinvader> boucman: uk resident - i think they fall at about the same levels here from what i can tell
20090123 19:09:29< freim> thespaceinvader: yeah. Apparently many think violence have ever hurt anyone, but a glimpse of a tit and a whole nation is traumatized for years ;)
20090123 19:09:35< thespaceinvader> i wonder if this is the reason i seem to see both sides of this so much
20090123 19:09:51< thespaceinvader> freim: i know, it's an odd double standard
20090123 19:09:59< boucman> no, this is a real cultural clash, in France (and germany if I am to trus kitty's reaction) the fact that it's considered correct to have women topless is considered a feminist victory
20090123 19:10:14< boucman> in the US, it's a sign of decandance...
20090123 19:10:23< thespaceinvader> boucman: ok
20090123 19:11:07< JW1> so how are you going to get kitty back?
20090123 19:11:22< Shadow_Master> boucman: yeah, I know more or less the French culture's background
20090123 19:11:37< JW1> or are we going to let her just walk away?
20090123 19:12:10< thespaceinvader> JW1: I certainly don't plan to - but I'm waiting to deliver my response to her until after dave's had a say, as requested
20090123 19:12:12< boucman> JW1: dunno yet, we can't force her to stay anyway, so it's pretty delicate
20090123 19:12:42< boucman> the first thing is to make sure we know where each of us stand, and I'm not completely sure where jetryl and sirp stand (jetryl is fine with topless IIRC)
20090123 19:12:45< JW1> it's just like any relationship
20090123 19:13:04< JW1> I'm sure she just wants to feel heard and respected
20090123 19:13:10< Turuk> Jetryl's original post in that thread I would say show that he shared similar views to kitty's
20090123 19:13:18< Shadow_Master> yup
20090123 19:13:43< boucman> ok
20090123 19:13:55< freim> we do have quite a lot of european devs, so if the core devs should have any say I think we should consider if the "american norm" should relent for the "european norm" and not just be the default without any discussion
20090123 19:14:37< freim> Turuk: quite a lot of the artist share that view, and we have had arguments over this before also
20090123 19:14:48< Shadow_Master> shouldn't http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=334508#p334508 be backed out until we have a definitive answer from Sirp ?
20090123 19:15:05< Turuk> I know, when I made Sith I read through all the old Moderator's Forum threads
20090123 19:15:25 * Shadow_Master too, but he wasn't made Sith :p
20090123 19:16:19 * boucman was made dev before there was a moderator forum :)
20090123 19:16:49< JW1> JW is just a user :p
20090123 19:17:00< Shadow_Master> and that is good.
20090123 19:17:03< JW1> and I forget to use /me :p
20090123 19:17:45< Shadow_Master> anybody? (6 lines above)
20090123 19:18:08< Soliton> it's a quote there's nothing new in there.
20090123 19:18:29< Soliton> if Sirp changes his mind he'll surely post there.
20090123 19:18:34-!- isaac [n=isaac@debian/developer/isaac] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090123 19:18:35< boucman> Shadow_Master: ok, but make it clear why you removed it so eleazar doesn't wonder what happened
20090123 19:19:05< Soliton> what's the point?
20090123 19:19:31< boucman> try to freeze the depate and avoid people heating up until we have a sort of consensus between devs
20090123 19:19:48< Soliton> and the quote prevents that?
20090123 19:20:46< Shadow_Master> boucman: yes, splitted to the hidden forum
20090123 19:21:02< fabi_> The quote looks like all devs have come to an agrement and that is not true. I feel that quote being to early.
20090123 19:21:25< Shadow_Master> exactly
20090123 19:21:27< Soliton> uh, it's a quote it's not early it's from way back....
20090123 19:21:37< Soliton> you can not change history.
20090123 19:22:00< Soliton> if you want to hide it fine... that's just adding confusion afaict.
20090123 19:22:13< Soliton> obviously kitty for example read it already.
20090123 19:22:38< Shadow_Master> because it was posted in the hidden forum thread
20090123 19:22:48< JW1> so...I'm still wondering what the plan is to get kitty back on the project?
20090123 19:22:49< Shadow_Master> probably most users don't even know Dave ever said that
20090123 19:23:00-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 19:23:03< Shadow_Master> JW1: there's no plan for now.
20090123 19:23:18< JW1> :(
20090123 19:24:44< Soliton> well alright, if you think moving things back and forth so that noone who didn't read the forum at the right time understands what's going on is a good thing.
20090123 19:24:56< Soliton> i don't understand it but i care too little about the forum.
20090123 19:26:03< loonycyborg> Better edit it instead of moving :)
20090123 19:27:30< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: if you have a better idea, go ahead, speak!
20090123 19:27:32< Shadow_Master> you are also moderator
20090123 19:28:15< boucman> JW1: there will be a plan, or at least a common reaction, but it's to early, leave us some time to think about it
20090123 19:28:33< loonycyborg> I'm not sure whether I have better idea, also I'm not very proficient with phpBB's interface.
20090123 19:28:49< JW1> well my reaction is shock and disgust at losing another artist....and this time the portrait director
20090123 19:28:53< Shadow_Master> then again, you are admin in ST forums?
20090123 19:29:11< loonycyborg> It has an earlier version of phpBB
20090123 19:29:12< Shadow_Master> no need to make up a support for your first statement loonycyborg 
20090123 19:29:28< Shadow_Master> AFAICT not much has changed in the existing phpBB 2 functionality
20090123 19:29:50< loonycyborg> And I never moved indiviaual posts.
20090123 19:30:07< Shadow_Master> ah well, that's a good excuse :)
20090123 19:30:32-!- cib0 [n=cib@p4FD0D16C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 19:30:33< loonycyborg> Since you've already moved it away, moving it once more would cause even *more* confusion.
20090123 19:32:38< boucman> Tournamet of champion game going on on MP server
20090123 19:32:46< boucman> (mentionning a lighter subject...)
20090123 19:32:53 * Shadow_Master cannot play MP
20090123 19:32:55< CIA-53> shadowmaster * r32264 /trunk/data/core/about.cfg: Add a comment for me as the Spanish translation maintainer..
20090123 19:36:14-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@c-68-49-10-243.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 19:36:37< CIA-53> shadowmaster * r32265 /trunk/RELEASE_NOTES: 
20090123 19:36:37< CIA-53> Clean RELEASE_NOTES. Ivanovic forgot to do this, apparently. If it was
20090123 19:36:37< CIA-53> intended, feel free to revert...
20090123 19:37:36< Sirp> hi
20090123 19:37:43< Soliton> hi Sirp
20090123 19:37:49< freim> JW1: I don't see any point in trying to convince her to come back unless we change the rules. It wouldn't be decent to try to persuade here to go against what she believe is right imo
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20090123 19:40:23< JW1> freim: if she is so stubborn then perhaps it is unavoidable, but if it only that she feels disrespected then I feel it would be a waste
20090123 19:40:37< noy> You know, while I personally don't mind nudity, I really think we need to consider the viewpoints of others. 
20090123 19:40:51< Shadow_Master> all artists are stubborn in some way or another it seems
20090123 19:41:04< noy> This project has been built on debate and accepting the views of others....
20090123 19:41:25-!- Psyche^ [n=Psyche@f054003176.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 19:41:44< Shadow_Master> otherwise they'd probably not learn to draw either :P
20090123 19:41:50< noy> I hate to say it, but her argument in the moderators forum was sickening... its in some way as close minded as the people she rails against.  
20090123 19:42:31< JW1> well, what has happened in the mod forums I am obviously not privy to....so I can only guess :(
20090123 19:42:57< JW1> if it is as bad as Shadow_Master implies then she may be gone for good
20090123 19:43:11< Shadow_Master> JW1: what happened in the mod forums: we have declared the third World War!
20090123 19:43:37< Shadow_Master> (it was started by the Antartic Penguin country though)
20090123 19:43:55< noy> JW1: she basically called some of us as close minded the fundamentalist islamic leaders covering people up with burqas
20090123 19:43:59 * crimson_penguin is innocent
20090123 19:44:06< freim> JW1, noy: comments like that make me feel like mine and kittys point of view are not even considered. It's like we are always gratious, while only the point of view on nudity as indecent is allowed. I think that point of view is discriminating, unecessary censorship, demonising of something that is natural and damaging to peoples sexuality. You have no moral upper ground here
20090123 19:44:43< JW1> freim: I am not privy to what exacctly has been discussed
20090123 19:44:52< Shadow_Master> JW1: yes we know.
20090123 19:44:55< noy> freim: no, you don't get it, I personally don't mind nudity, but going and saying other people's viewpoints are stupid like she did, is unacceptable, particularly when you're trying to claim moral highground.
20090123 19:45:27< Shadow_Master> I understood as she was saying that the whole <insert country here>'s PoV was stupid
20090123 19:45:28< freim> noy: or she was just angry and didn't consider her words very carefully
20090123 19:45:30< noy> freim: I've lived with people who have fundamentalist viewpoints, her argument was in terrible taste.
20090123 19:46:43< Shadow_Master> it is understandable that an artist can go angry when you tell them "don't do this because of this and that, do that instead". It's, well, as if the GPL policy wasn't enough pressure for them already
20090123 19:46:48< noy> freim: really? to be honest, this is somewhat consistent with her. Look at the summary uploads thread... where she was telling us she couldn't believe that we don't have upload protection. 
20090123 19:46:58< JW1> people lash out when they feel insulted, it is true....for which side/s this is applicable IDK
20090123 19:47:06< freim> noy: I haven't seen that
20090123 19:47:48< freim> noy: I just notice which side of these kind of arguments always has to relent to the other...
20090123 19:47:49< Shadow_Master> they already have to cope with the fact that their work can be copied and modified at free will; more of that in the GPL P. thread.
20090123 19:48:15< noy> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=330497#p330497
20090123 19:48:41< noy> freim: there was no relenting, we're still talking about it. 
20090123 19:49:12< Shadow_Master> the uploads: it seems she misunderstood what data is transferred
20090123 19:49:27< noy> Shadow_Master: thats not really the point I'm making here.
20090123 19:49:28< freim> noy: there was the last times this was discussed
20090123 19:49:40< Shadow_Master> then what is it?
20090123 19:49:54< noy> umm we have a ML conversation going, don't we?
20090123 19:50:21< Shadow_Master> pretty silent right now.
20090123 19:50:26< freim> or, I don't feel it really was discussed at all, just decided
20090123 19:51:09< noy> We also had alot of conversations over this months ago when we first brought up the issue. 
20090123 19:51:38< noy> My reading of the ML is that we are looking at other ways of doing it. 
20090123 19:51:52< Shadow_Master> and that ideally should be solved before 1.5.9
20090123 19:52:09< Shadow_Master> of course it is not an ideal world in which we work.
20090123 19:54:02-!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@moinmoin/developer/karol] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 19:54:14 * Shadow_Master assumes Sirp is aware that locking threads there only helps against Forum Sith.
20090123 19:54:40-!- loonycyborg_ [n=sergey@79.139.246.223] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 19:54:46< boucman> Shadow_Master: he is, this is purely symbolic
20090123 19:55:03< Shadow_Master> well, I have done that too actually :)
20090123 19:55:06-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.246.30] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
20090123 19:55:09-!- loonycyborg_ is now known as loonycyborg
20090123 19:55:10 * Turuk is not particularly offended to be kept out of it ;)
20090123 19:55:27< Shadow_Master> Turuk: submit patches. You know the secret plan :>
20090123 19:55:40< Turuk> Ha, this is true.
20090123 19:56:44-!- markm_ [n=markm@hlfxns01bbg-142177234079.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20090123 19:59:19-!- Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
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20090123 20:06:38< grzywacz> argh
20090123 20:11:37< Soliton> stubbed your toe?
20090123 20:11:45-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@79.139.246.30] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090123 20:12:01< Shadow_Master> he probably found a bug in his soup
20090123 20:12:14< boucman> soup ?
20090123 20:12:18-!- markm [n=markm@hlfxns01bbg-142177234209.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090123 20:12:18< boucman> is that a UMC ?
20090123 20:12:44< Shadow_Master> it may be, it may not be.
20090123 20:12:55< Shadow_Master> it may be mainline's soup.
20090123 20:13:01-!- YogiHH [n=YogiHH@d028230.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 20:13:23< Shadow_Master> OK. Bad pun. Soup == code.
20090123 20:13:59< Shadow_Master> there's a spanish phrase "hay un bicho en mi sopa". it translates to English roughly as "there's a bug in my soup"
20090123 20:15:45-!- Gallifax [n=Gallifax@pD9EA4D7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Pull the pin and count to what?"]
20090123 20:15:50< Shadow_Master> and some thousand lines of code can be seen as a soup. You have to cook them (compile) to consume them (run the program)
20090123 20:16:21< YogiHH> The day i find  bugs in my soup is the day i have to rethink a lot of things ;-)
20090123 20:16:27< YogiHH> hi btw
20090123 20:16:32< Shadow_Master> hi YogiHH 
20090123 20:16:33-!- Thrawnwesnoth [n=nick@pool-71-126-227-240.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 20:16:40< boucman> french people have a similar expression, but with a hair instead of a bug
20090123 20:16:40< Shadow_Master> hi Thrawnwesnoth
20090123 20:16:48< Shadow_Master> aha :)
20090123 20:16:49< YogiHH> hey Thrawn
20090123 20:17:00< Thrawnwesnoth> so the mod forum went to hell while I wasn't watching it seems >_<
20090123 20:17:00< Sirp> hi YogiHH 
20090123 20:17:05-!- Thrawnwesnoth is now known as Thrawn
20090123 20:17:07< YogiHH> germans have that hair stuff, too :-)
20090123 20:17:13< Sirp> hi Thrawn 
20090123 20:17:22< YogiHH> hi Sirp
20090123 20:17:24< Thrawn> Sirp: Hi
20090123 20:17:48< Thrawn> YogiHH: hi
20090123 20:17:56< Turuk> hi Thrawn
20090123 20:18:00-!- Mordante [n=chatzill@80.126.43.246] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 20:18:02 * Turuk did not want to be left out.
20090123 20:18:04< Shadow_Master> hi Mordante 
20090123 20:18:12< Mordante> hi 
20090123 20:18:15-!- Gallifax [n=Gallifax@pD9EA4D7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 20:18:17-!- shikadibot_ [n=sh314001@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 20:18:18< Mordante> hi Shadow_Master 
20090123 20:18:26-!- shikadibot_ is now known as shikadibot
20090123 20:18:35< Shadow_Master> hi shiadibot (damn, people keep coming in. I won't continue greeting them)
20090123 20:18:49< Shadow_Master> mispelled even. hi shikadibot 
20090123 20:19:32< Mordante> looks nice how you greet bots :-P
20090123 20:19:44< Shadow_Master> is it a bot? believe me, I couldn't tell.
20090123 20:20:22< Mordante> well it has bot in it's name ;-)
20090123 20:20:50< cib0> now, these morale discussions start striking me as a bit weird
20090123 20:21:08< Thrawn> morale or moral?
20090123 20:21:23< Thrawn> or both XD
20090123 20:21:24< Shadow_Master> hey, there was an artist named "scibot" and it wasn't a bot...
20090123 20:21:30 * YogiHH didn't know there is a difference...
20090123 20:21:45< Shadow_Master> so you can't really tell nowadays who is a bot simply by their nicknames
20090123 20:21:53< cib0> discussions about morale?
20090123 20:22:18< cib0> neither did i, but i'm not a native english speaker, either
20090123 20:22:20-!- shikadibot [n=sh314001@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Client Quit]
20090123 20:22:26< YogiHH> as a non native i couldn't tell about the difference between moral and morale
20090123 20:22:30-!- shikadibot [n=sh314001@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 20:22:40< YogiHH> and i am too lazy to look it up ;-)
20090123 20:22:43 * Shadow_Master researches, he didn't know there was a difference either
20090123 20:23:03< cib0> moral appears to be an adjective and morale a noun, but i could tell that much before
20090123 20:23:13< Sirp> morale is how happy/confident a group of people are. 
20090123 20:23:20< Sirp> usually with regards to soldiers
20090123 20:23:33< cib0> ah right
20090123 20:23:35< Shadow_Master> indeed. Now I know how to fix my campaign's story text. Thank you :)
20090123 20:23:47< boucman> that weird, in french it's the same word, but with different gender :)
20090123 20:23:59< cib0> what do you say in english then?
20090123 20:24:10< Shadow_Master> in spanish it is the same word, same gender
20090123 20:24:19< cib0> moral discussion sounds like a discussion that is moral itself.. and not about it
20090123 20:24:19< YogiHH> boucman, that's because french is a weird language ;-)
20090123 20:24:32< Shadow_Master> "moral" (adj.), "moral" (noun)
20090123 20:24:41< boucman> YogiHH: trust me, I know...
20090123 20:24:46< YogiHH> :-)
20090123 20:24:51 * boucman had to learn it
20090123 20:24:53< cib0> hm, right
20090123 20:24:54< thespaceinvader> moral is a word to do with people's beliefs about stuff, morale is peoples' happiness/confidence
20090123 20:24:59< boucman> talk about a kid trauma :P
20090123 20:25:14< thespaceinvader> moral can be used as an adjective - something  is a moral thing to do, short for morally correct
20090123 20:25:20< cib0> so, it's moral discussions i guess?
20090123 20:25:25< thespaceinvader> or a noun, though usually pluralised
20090123 20:25:35< Turuk> The issue is that it should not say moral discussions, but a discussion on morals
20090123 20:25:37< thespaceinvader> someones morals are their beliefs
20090123 20:25:50< cib0> i see, thanks
20090123 20:25:59< thespaceinvader> turuk: both are grammatically correct, i believe, but the latter is clearer
20090123 20:26:02 * cib0 is yet to master the English language.
20090123 20:26:02< Turuk> because while you could say a discussion on food or food discussion, moral discussion (as you noted) implies that it has a moral nature
20090123 20:26:15< Turuk> Thespaceinvader, yup, I was just trying to point that out ;)
20090123 20:26:21< thespaceinvader> okie doke
20090123 20:26:37< Turuk> I have similar problems with my Italian, so I understand
20090123 20:27:50< thespaceinvader> languages are confusing >.<
20090123 20:27:59< thespaceinvader> i have no idea how i manage to even speak english =D
20090123 20:28:13< Turuk> We should all just speak in something simple and universal
20090123 20:28:17< thespaceinvader> let alone know most of the rules
20090123 20:28:24< Turuk> Grunts and howls come to mind
20090123 20:28:31< cib0> anyway, this is the third time this week i found a discussion of that sort in Wesnoth, and only one of those three did make any sense to me
20090123 20:28:41< thespaceinvader> Turuk: people have tried that in the past - esperanto springs instantly to mind
20090123 20:28:56< Turuk> Ooo, good point.
20090123 20:29:03< thespaceinvader> but english seems to be falling out to BE that universal language, worryingly enough
20090123 20:29:11< thespaceinvader> it's t'internet's fault
20090123 20:29:24-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has quit []
20090123 20:29:43< YogiHH> parents ins germany start to search for schools teaching their children chinese...
20090123 20:29:44< Shadow_Master> how can I summon alink?
20090123 20:29:55< boucman> same thing in france
20090123 20:30:14< Shadow_Master> um, same thing here
20090123 20:30:21< Mordante> Shadow_Master maybe boucman knows more about the image cache
20090123 20:30:22< Shadow_Master> also japanese
20090123 20:30:29< Shadow_Master> Mordante: I already asked him.
20090123 20:30:50< Mordante> didn't read that part of the log yet ;-)
20090123 20:32:21< Shadow_Master> looks like I have only two options: a) Take the entire week for learning how image caching works, or b) Kill Espreon for not taking care of UtBS and use his blood as a sacrifice to summon Alink.
20090123 20:33:01< cib0> when i think of China growing enough for chinese to be spoken worldwide, it also reminds me of the fact that we are running out of resources and all the other problems we are going to have in a bit
20090123 20:33:24< Ivanovic> Shadow_Master: have you read the log?
20090123 20:33:32< Ivanovic> i am having problems with wesnoth-optipng
20090123 20:33:45< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: I searched for "shadow" and hit nothing
20090123 20:33:54< Ivanovic> that is: the check for convert ain't working for my box as in it says "not available" though it is there in path
20090123 20:34:03< Ivanovic> and the script works nicely when commenting out the checks
20090123 20:34:39< Mordante> Shadow_Master try to email alink
20090123 20:35:02< YogiHH> anyone: Do i need to have a working mysql database to have wesnothd running?
20090123 20:35:14< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: someone may have changed the behavior of convert in recent versions
20090123 20:35:20< Sirp> YogiHH: I *think* there are options to make it so you don't need one.
20090123 20:35:21< Shadow_Master> e.g. the return value of convert --help
20090123 20:35:24< Sirp> at least there should be.
20090123 20:35:46< Shadow_Master> or your bash config is excluding the path to the convert binary somehow
20090123 20:36:12< Ivanovic> Shadow_Master: like i said: when commenting out all those check lines, i can run the script without a single problem
20090123 20:36:18< Shadow_Master> I'm using ImageMagick from Debian lenny and I experience no problems
20090123 20:36:19< Ivanovic> so bash does have access to convert
20090123 20:36:35< Shadow_Master> then it may be the behavior of convert what changed. what version are you using?
20090123 20:37:27< Ivanovic> $ convert --help
20090123 20:37:28< Ivanovic> Version: ImageMagick 6.4.8 2009-01-08 Q16 OpenMP http://www.imagemagick.org
20090123 20:37:34< Soliton> YogiHH: nope.
20090123 20:37:45< Shadow_Master> I have 6.3.7
20090123 20:37:49-!- Thrawn [n=nick@pool-71-126-227-240.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090123 20:38:03< Ivanovic> with other words: screw this check!
20090123 20:38:13< Shadow_Master> and the others too?
20090123 20:38:25-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit ["Power failu"]
20090123 20:38:30< YogiHH> Soliton: i downloaded mysql++ and tried to compile, but it searches for some headers that are not there (like mysql.h and mysql_version.h). So i need the source for mysql as well?
20090123 20:39:10< Sirp> YogiHH: isn't mysql++ just a C++ API for MySQL?
20090123 20:39:17< YogiHH> Sirp: yes
20090123 20:39:20< Sirp> YogiHH: and I think it's based on the MySQL API, yes.
20090123 20:39:37< Sirp> do we use mysql++ though, or are we just using the C API?
20090123 20:39:46< Soliton> afaik Baufo changed it to the plain C API.
20090123 20:40:02< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: and the others too?
20090123 20:40:20< Ivanovic> Shadow_Master: i commented out all checks just to be sure
20090123 20:40:38< Ivanovic> the checks (when commented in) failed with the convert check
20090123 20:40:54< Ivanovic> so the optipng check went through, no idea about the advcmp check
20090123 20:40:58< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: if I were you, I'd submit a bug for ImageMagic though
20090123 20:41:18< Shadow_Master> program-name --help should success, not fail
20090123 20:41:44< YogiHH> to be honest i have no idea, but it demanded headers like mysql++.h so i figured it uses that
20090123 20:42:06< Soliton> where did it demand that?
20090123 20:42:08< YogiHH> i never worked with mysql on a source code level, so i am pretty clueless about this
20090123 20:42:26< YogiHH> forum_auth.cpp
20090123 20:42:27< Soliton> the build system did maybe? it possibly wasn't updated.
20090123 20:42:47< CIA-53> shadowmaster * r32266 /trunk/utils/wesnoth-optipng: Disable the advdef, convert and optipng existance checks for Ivanovic.
20090123 20:42:52< Soliton> wesbot: log 31294
20090123 20:42:54< loonycyborg> Soliton: I updated the build system to not to require it.
20090123 20:42:55< wesbot> baufo * r31294 : Making the forum user handler use the mysql C API rather than the C++ wrappers
20090123 20:42:58< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=31294
20090123 20:43:03< Soliton> ^
20090123 20:43:27-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@c-68-49-10-243.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 20:43:35< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: what does "convert --help 2> /dev/null 1> /dev/null ; echo $?" does for you?
20090123 20:43:54< Ivanovic> $ convert --help 2> /dev/null 1> /dev/null ; echo $?
20090123 20:43:56< Ivanovic> 1
20090123 20:43:59< Shadow_Master> for me it's 0
20090123 20:44:06< Shadow_Master> the way it should be in any reasonable program.
20090123 20:44:16< Soliton> YogiHH: i'd try to just remove that include if it causes trouble.
20090123 20:44:27< YogiHH> ok, will do so
20090123 20:44:43< Shadow_Master> unless, um, convert is itself failing for some reason/bug?
20090123 20:47:47< Soliton> YogiHH: you don't need to compile with the forum user handler anyway unless you actually want to test that?
20090123 20:48:32< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: anyway, I worked around your problems.
20090123 20:48:38< Shadow_Master> so humble I am.
20090123 20:49:31< Shadow_Master> now commit the translation update and I'll stop bothering you about "why being in the bleeding edge is not always good"
20090123 20:50:48< YogiHH> Soliton: oh, nice, i didn't know that. I just included everything in the server directory
20090123 20:51:47-!- Baufo [n=thomas@62-47-128-195.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 20:52:44< Soliton> Baufo: is the mysql++ include in forum_auth still needed?
20090123 20:53:04< Baufo> Soliton, I don't think so
20090123 20:53:17< Baufo> at least it should not
20090123 20:54:43< Baufo> Soliton, umm, forum_auth is a single document, it's not used anywhere
20090123 20:55:20< Soliton> can it be completely removed then or is it still useful?
20090123 20:56:24< Baufo> no, I don't think we need it anymore
20090123 20:56:30-!- Gallifax [n=Gallifax@pD9EA4D7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["IceChat - Its what Cool People use"]
20090123 21:02:27< Soliton> Shadow_Master: you could use 'which' for an actual existence check instead of hoping you get the right exit status.
20090123 21:03:20< Shadow_Master> um, "which commandthatdoesnotexist" and "which which" gives me the output in stderr, both
20090123 21:03:35< Shadow_Master> for differentating which command failed, I'd have to use sed or something.
20090123 21:03:45< boucman> Shadow_Master: same return status ?
20090123 21:04:03< Shadow_Master> wait, what the hell...
20090123 21:04:33< Shadow_Master> I have spent two years believing &> was equivalent to 2>
20090123 21:04:46< Shadow_Master> it's awful to realize that you suck :P
20090123 21:05:01-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@66-189-14-42.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090123 21:05:27-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@66-189-14-42.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 21:07:04< Shadow_Master> in other words, the whole set of maintenance tools of wesnoth-umc-dev is broken. great
20090123 21:09:31-!- Baufo [n=thomas@62-47-128-195.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090123 21:10:25< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: can you test again but with r32267 ?
20090123 21:10:28< CIA-53> shadowmaster * r32267 /trunk/utils/wesnoth-optipng: 
20090123 21:10:28< CIA-53> Brought back and changed the testing mechanism for the different tools.
20090123 21:10:28< CIA-53> Now it just depends on the 'which' command's return value.
20090123 21:10:37< Shadow_Master> (and commit that translation...)
20090123 21:10:45-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@66-189-14-42.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090123 21:11:05< Ivanovic> 1) i can test
20090123 21:11:10< Ivanovic> 2) we will see...
20090123 21:11:54< Shadow_Master> boucman: should http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=23777&start=45 be moved to Contribs then?
20090123 21:12:02-!- ilor [n=user@unaffiliated/ilor] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090123 21:12:10< Ivanovic> yes, it does run
20090123 21:14:16< boucman> Shadow_Master: no big deal, but I think yes, it's a (temptative) upgrade for a mainline unit, after all
20090123 21:15:02< Shadow_Master> boucman: I say because you want Jet's opinion, yet Jet does not care much about the Art Workshop nowadays
20090123 21:15:06< Shadow_Master> (from his own words)
20090123 21:15:16< boucman> ok, makes sense
20090123 21:16:30< boucman> Shadow_Master: will you do the honor ?
20090123 21:16:59-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.246.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090123 21:17:18< CIA-53> ivanovic * r32268 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog po/wesnoth-sotbe/es.po): updated Spanish translation
20090123 21:17:31< Shadow_Master> boucman: I alraedy did
20090123 21:17:35< Shadow_Master> thanks Ivanovic  :]
20090123 21:18:33< boucman> thx Shadow_Master
20090123 21:18:48-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.246.223] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 21:28:46-!- Dragonking [n=dk@chello084010045237.chello.pl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 21:29:18< Turuk> Woohoo, new forum members online high
20090123 21:30:07< Soliton> how do you know they're high?
20090123 21:30:26 * Turuk has poorly worded sentences.
20090123 21:30:38< Turuk> A new high number reached in forum members online at one time.
20090123 21:31:00< Shadow_Master> "not as bad as the me, cannot speak really well for languages"
20090123 21:31:23< Shadow_Master> Turuk: you mean the "most users ever online" statistic
20090123 21:31:36< Turuk> Yup.
20090123 21:31:41< Shadow_Master> which is reset at random times, including crashes etc.
20090123 21:32:34< Turuk> No I know
20090123 21:32:48< Turuk> Just hadn't changed in a month.
20090123 21:34:05< CIA-53> mordante * r32269 /trunk/ (changelog src/game_events.cpp): Potraits with an icon are TC'ed again.
20090123 21:35:29 * Shadow_Master hands Mordante a glassed cookie
20090123 21:36:06< Shadow_Master> oops, I made up that word
20090123 21:36:29< Shadow_Master> s/glassed/glaze/
20090123 21:36:43< Mordante> jummy :-)
20090123 21:55:35-!- shikadibot [n=sh314001@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/bot/shikadibot] has quit ["Help me, they have stolen my chips!"]
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20090123 22:04:07-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.214] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090123 22:17:01-!- Torangan [n=Torangan@mue-88-130-45-212.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 22:17:15< Torangan> hi
20090123 22:17:35< Shadow_Master> hail Torangan 
20090123 22:17:43< Shadow_Master> long time no see
20090123 22:18:12< Torangan> Yeah, I had to reorganize free time and staying here often took away quite an amount... :-)
20090123 22:18:56< Shadow_Master> you never commited a the last translation update (wesnoth-tutorial) I sent you it seems - I resent it to Ivanovic with a larger batch some days later anyway
20090123 22:19:28< Torangan> But reading the forum those days isn't nice at all. A thread about how rude the tone got and now kitty probably leaving due to the nudity as art question...
20090123 22:19:42< Shadow_Master> :(
20090123 22:20:25< Torangan> Don't know about that update. Either it got lost somehow or I was occupied. If Ivanovic already uploaded it nothing happens anymore when I try.
20090123 22:21:11 * loonycyborg wonders why kitty considers Sapient and Eleazar to represent Wesnoth community instead of Shadow_Master and Jetryl :(
20090123 22:21:15< Torangan> The art topic is something I kept out intentionally so far. But at this point my personal stance is: if we loose either religious people or artists, I want to keep the artists.
20090123 22:21:18< Shadow_Master> yes, he has uplodaded all my translations timely
20090123 22:21:56< Torangan> Well, we all have a private life aside from Wesnoth and sometimes I'm even away from the internet for a few days. :-)
20090123 22:22:12< Shadow_Master> true :) but Ivanovic is a bot and does not have to deal with those
20090123 22:22:45< Shadow_Master> and yeah, my persona stance is to keep the artists as well. Specially this artist in particular
20090123 22:22:55< Shadow_Master> she started the "art style revolution"
20090123 22:23:15< Torangan> Another point about translations: unless a release is approaching I don't consider them time critical to commit.
20090123 22:23:19< Shadow_Master> without her, LordBob would probably not be here
20090123 22:23:30< Shadow_Master> Torangan: aha.
20090123 22:23:53< Torangan> Sure, well done art attracts more contributors. Amazing how many new portrait threads appeared in the last days.
20090123 22:24:10< Shadow_Master> Um, I never found the "official" announcement of when 1.5.8 was _going to be_ released in the ML.
20090123 22:24:21< Torangan> If I'm rather occupied a translation update might stay for a day or two.
20090123 22:24:50< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: I am assuming we have already switched completely to the 1-release-per-2-weeks schema for the upcoming stable?
20090123 22:24:53< loonycyborg> Did anyone close fixed 1.5.7 bugs btw?
20090123 22:25:01< Shadow_Master> no
20090123 22:25:15< Ivanovic> we have switched to "one release when Ivanovic has time for it" scheme
20090123 22:25:16< Shadow_Master> I don't even remember what the policy was so I haven't closed mine
20090123 22:25:28 * loonycyborg slaps ESR with a fish :P
20090123 22:25:44< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: hey, he's without his working computer.
20090123 22:26:05 * loonycyborg forgot about that
20090123 22:26:08< Shadow_Master> Torangan: well done art also attracts new translators ;)
20090123 22:26:34< Torangan> Yes, it makes the game more popular.
20090123 22:30:03< Torangan> What impresses me most is just how much more campaigns are coming to WesCamp those days.
20090123 22:31:01< Shadow_Master> probably thanks to Mordante 
20090123 22:31:05< Torangan> Translators trying to get everything done face a very hard challenge.
20090123 22:32:36< Shadow_Master> indeed. :-/ And the out-of-team translations are not so good IME.
20090123 22:32:48< Shadow_Master> the LoW translation to Spanish from Wescamp was basically unusable.
20090123 22:33:33< Shadow_Master> in that regard, it'd be good if stand-alone translators submitted their work to the mainline translation teams for review, before it is commited to Wescamp
20090123 22:34:27< Torangan> I guess we should try to get the teams more obvious so contributors find them easily.
20090123 22:36:18 * boucman considers that a switch to git would be mainly beeficial for translators, more than mainline devs
20090123 22:36:50< Shadow_Master> they can always make git-svn repository copies of Wescamp
20090123 22:37:07< Shadow_Master> (of course, given how Berlios performs, that'd take as long as the original git-svn tarball that we have)
20090123 22:39:03< zookeeper> wait, wasn't this solved ages ago? http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23809
20090123 22:39:22< Torangan> I guess most translators would have quite a lot of trouble with git.
20090123 22:39:28< zookeeper> or actually...i think i remember that i couldn't even reproduce that
20090123 22:39:34 * Shadow_Master runs like hell to check the help screen
20090123 22:40:11< Shadow_Master> zookeeper: no problems in latest 1.4.7 and 1.5.8 (no svn)
20090123 22:41:24< Soliton> it's still there when you have EE installed or so.
20090123 22:42:23< Shadow_Master> Noyga: do you still maintain EE?
20090123 22:42:42-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 22:42:44< zookeeper> there's no EE for 1.5 it seems, you mean if you have the 1.4 EE installed on 1.5?
20090123 22:42:52-!- ilor [n=user@unaffiliated/ilor] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 22:43:03< Noyga> well there is no EE for 1.5.x
20090123 22:43:43< Noyga> Shadow_Master, no i'm currently +/- inactive
20090123 22:44:10< Soliton> then it's probably EoM or i've only seen it on 1.4.
20090123 22:44:45< Shadow_Master> well, there's a trunk EoM version in wesnoth-umc-dev
20090123 22:45:24 * Shadow_Master is fetching that tree to test
20090123 22:46:10< Shadow_Master> um, I am also supposed to do the lowest level maintenance there now that AI0867 is gone. Oops.
20090123 22:48:05< JW1> EoM is on 1.5
20090123 22:48:18< JW1> only recently (as in the last few weeks or so)
20090123 22:48:28< Shadow_Master> or ou have gigantic WML files, or SF.net is being really slow atm
20090123 22:50:59-!- Thrawnwesnoth [n=nick@pool-71-126-227-240.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
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20090123 22:54:10< Shadow_Master> Mordante: do you think in 1.7 we will be able to have the password box (of the MP menu) automatically selected for input?
20090123 22:55:10< boucman> Shadow_Master: even in 1.6 IIRC
20090123 22:55:26< boucman> that's the first thing I suggested, and I think it's already in SVN
20090123 22:55:26< Shadow_Master> that would be awesome
20090123 22:55:40< Shadow_Master> boucman: no, it isn't
20090123 22:55:46< boucman> ok
20090123 22:55:48< Shadow_Master> the input focus is in the name box even when it is already filled in
20090123 22:55:57< Soliton> it is when you're asked for the password.
20090123 22:56:09< Shadow_Master> ah, but not in the *menu* :)
20090123 22:56:44< Shadow_Master> I prefer not to save my password to preferences for obvious reasons 
20090123 23:02:24-!- Espreon [n=espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20090123 23:15:03< CIA-53> loonycyborg * r32270 /trunk/projectfiles/ (5 files in 4 dirs): 
20090123 23:15:03< CIA-53> Committed McShark's projectfiles update.
20090123 23:15:03< CIA-53> It also adds Debug & Release targets to Code::Blocks and VC9 projects.
20090123 23:17:54< Mordante> Shadow_Master if it's not in ask Baufo he added the widget
20090123 23:18:17< Shadow_Master> okay, will do.
20090123 23:19:06< Mordante> but I know he already changed something and IIRC it was post 1.5.8 ;-)
20090123 23:20:02< Shadow_Master> I still get the name box as the initial focus in latest trunk revision.
20090123 23:20:14< Shadow_Master> which almost made me login as "ShikadiLordPassword"
20090123 23:20:36< Soliton> that's a pretty good password you have there!
20090123 23:20:46< boucman> :)
20090123 23:20:51< Shadow_Master> :)
20090123 23:21:11< Soliton> wesbot: log 32223
20090123 23:21:12< wesbot> baufo * r32223 : made the login dialog smarter: if the server asks for a password automatically select the password box
20090123 23:21:15< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=32223
20090123 23:21:37< Shadow_Master> ideally I'd like to see that happen by default when the "join official server" entry is selected.
20090123 23:21:43< Soliton> i don't think generally selecting the password box makes sense.
20090123 23:21:52< zookeeper> the orcs/ogres thing seems to just be a bug in the en-GB translation
20090123 23:21:57< zookeeper> anyone who can fix that?
20090123 23:22:03< Soliton> oh, that makes sense.
20090123 23:22:10< Shadow_Master> a maintainer.
20090123 23:23:21< Mordante> hi Torangan long time no see
20090123 23:23:26< Shadow_Master> a certain "pjr"
20090123 23:23:26< Soliton> hmm, looks right to me.
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20090123 23:24:22< Torangan> hi Mordante
20090123 23:25:02< Soliton> zookeeper: where do you see that the translation is wrong?
20090123 23:25:26< zookeeper> Soliton, i fired up 1.5.8, switched to en-GB and looked in the help and the bug instantly reproduced 
20090123 23:25:35< zookeeper> i don't have any add-ons installed
20090123 23:26:04< CIA-53> mordante * r32271 /trunk/data/gui/default/window/message.cfg: Remove some unused code.
20090123 23:26:07< Shadow_Master> argh, I wish there could be a way a software could access SF.net's audit section and automatically update a wiki page adding new members of a project
20090123 23:26:10< zookeeper> wait..
20090123 23:26:20< Shadow_Master> but that section is only accessible by project admins.
20090123 23:26:21< zookeeper> i tried again now, it worked
20090123 23:26:46< Ivanovic> en_GB is basically long dead
20090123 23:27:06< Soliton> i don't see anything wrong in the po though.
20090123 23:27:13< Ivanovic> the problem with it is that gettext assumes that en_US strings are close enough, so that it can easily take over some stuff, not always really successfull though...
20090123 23:27:38< zookeeper> err, actually to see any orcs in the help i had to start up a local game first...maybe that had something to do with it
20090123 23:29:12< Ivanovic> and in the po file the translation for 'Orcs' is set to 'Ogres'
20090123 23:29:18< Ivanovic> so this is no wonder at all...
20090123 23:29:38< Soliton> guess i was looking in the wrong one. where is that?
20090123 23:29:42< Mordante> doesn't it get fuzzy by default?
20090123 23:30:51< Soliton> ok, i see it now.
20090123 23:31:03< zookeeper> i don't know why, but it only reproduces for me with an empty encountered_units= (or presumably one without any orcs..)
20090123 23:31:27< Soliton> it's not fuzzy but there were some similar strange bugs with en_GB before.
20090123 23:31:35< Soliton> probably a bad commit sometime.
20090123 23:31:52< zookeeper> when i start the game again and look in the help, it's "Orcs", but when starting the game with an empty encountered_units= and after getting an orc unit, it shows up as "Ogres"
20090123 23:32:46< Soliton> there are a couple of Orcs strings and one is fuzzy and one is wrongly translated.
20090123 23:32:49 * Ivanovic will fix it
20090123 23:32:52< Ivanovic> give me some mins
20090123 23:32:58< Soliton> i'm already doing it.
20090123 23:33:04< Ivanovic> no, please do not
20090123 23:33:08< Soliton> ok.
20090123 23:33:13< Ivanovic> i will also unfuzzy some other strings in this go
20090123 23:33:27< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic is the new maintainer of en_GB?
20090123 23:35:01< CIA-53> mordante * r32272 /trunk/data/gui/default/window/message.cfg: Rename a badly ided widget.
20090123 23:39:23< YogiHH> good night everyone
20090123 23:39:31< Shadow_Master> nacht YogiHH 
20090123 23:39:39-!- YogiHH [n=YogiHH@d028230.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit ["Verlassend"]
20090123 23:40:37< CIA-53> ivanovic * r32273 /trunk/po/wesnoth/en_GB.po: updated British English translation (no, I am not the new maintainer of it, just to fix this strange race Orcs -> Ogres problem reported in the forums and copy&paste some more dead simple strings)
20090123 23:40:56< Ivanovic> hmmm, after this commit, should i add myself to the british english translation credits?
20090123 23:40:58< Ivanovic> ^^
20090123 23:41:22< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: yes!
20090123 23:41:29< Shadow_Master> also to each translation team's credits!
20090123 23:41:42< Ivanovic> nah, there i have not really edited strings
20090123 23:41:53< Mordante> in that case I should add myself to the German translation as well ;-)
20090123 23:41:54< Ivanovic> but in en_GB i have done some...
20090123 23:42:03< Ivanovic> Mordante: you really should do so
20090123 23:42:10< Ivanovic> your proofreading was a great help
20090123 23:42:15< Ivanovic> (not joking here!)
20090123 23:42:23< Mordante> thanks 
20090123 23:42:39< Mordante> well I learned a lot from it :-)
20090123 23:42:47 * Shadow_Master is confused... which is Mordante's native language, German or Dutch?
20090123 23:42:52< Ivanovic> dutch
20090123 23:43:05< Shadow_Master> is it similar to German unless I'm mistaken?
20090123 23:43:11< Ivanovic> but he hangs out in the german chan all the time and he prefers playing in german instead of dutch
20090123 23:43:16< Ivanovic> hmm, it is similar
20090123 23:43:23< Mordante> I'm learning German and do quite some proofreading to improve my German
20090123 23:43:35< Ivanovic> to me, as someone knowing german and english, it looks like some "obscure mixture" between the two
20090123 23:43:39< Shadow_Master> that's an interesting approach.
20090123 23:43:48< Shadow_Master> perhaps I could do the same with French in the future...
20090123 23:44:02< Mordante> it's similar but different enough to make a lot of huge errors
20090123 23:44:04< Ivanovic> that is: i can basically understand a lot of written dutch (though i might get some details wrong, really wrong...)
20090123 23:45:13< Ivanovic> that is: i would not try to correct the dutch translation with my knowledge, but i should be able to understand the game when setting it to dutch (even if it was completely translated and not this much english as it is now)
20090123 23:45:14< Ivanovic> ;)
20090123 23:45:40< Mordante> :-)
20090123 23:45:58< Shadow_Master> :)
20090123 23:46:13 * shikadibot doesn't know what is going on, but... :)
20090123 23:46:56< Shadow_Master> do we have any kind of wiki-editing bots?
20090123 23:47:06< Noyga> to me (i've worked 3 months in the netherlands) dutch looks like some obsucre mixture of english and german with a bit of spanish prononciation
20090123 23:47:46< Ivanovic> Shadow_Master: once upon the time grabberbot was doing such stuff
20090123 23:47:55< Shadow_Master> wesbot: seen elias
20090123 23:47:55< wesbot> Shadow_Master: The person with the nick elias last spoke 4d 5h ago.  7h 41m ago was here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-de with the message: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
20090123 23:47:57< Ivanovic> though it seems to be dead atm
20090123 23:48:05-!- AI0867 [n=ai@van-gessel.demon.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090123 23:48:06< Ivanovic> okay, i got to head off to bed now, n8
20090123 23:48:16< Noyga> n8 Ivanovic 
20090123 23:48:16< Shadow_Master> I could use it as base to write something that at least automated a part of the /wiki/Wesnoth_UMC_Dev management
20090123 23:48:26< Mordante> night Ivanovic 
20090123 23:48:47< Shadow_Master> wb AI0867 !
20090123 23:49:01< Shadow_Master> n8 Ivanovic 
20090123 23:49:27< boucman> we should really get grabberbot working again...
20090123 23:49:44< boucman> now that we have our own server, it can be made much more reliable than it used to be
20090123 23:49:56< Shadow_Master> email elias?
20090123 23:50:15< Shadow_Master> *send an email to
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20090123 23:53:40< Torangan> n8
20090123 23:53:47-!- Torangan [n=Torangan@mue-88-130-45-212.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090123 23:55:05< CIA-53> mordante * r32274 /trunk/data/gui/default/ (widget/panel_wml_message.cfg window/message.cfg): Move the panel definition to its own file.
--- Log closed Sat Jan 24 00:00:48 2009