--- Log opened Sat Jan 24 00:00:48 2009
20090124 00:00:55< Mordante> night
20090124 00:01:01< Shadow_Master> nacht
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20090124 00:05:35< boucman> night all
20090124 00:05:45< Shadow_Master> night boucman 
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20090124 00:26:43< Turuk> Does anyone know anything about this new add-on "Kill the Virgins"
20090124 00:27:19< Shadow_Master> no :(
20090124 00:27:59< Turuk> .....
20090124 00:28:00< Sirp> oh boy
20090124 00:28:09< Turuk> Only by sacrificing two virgins will you be freed is the tagline
20090124 00:28:19< Shadow_Master> which server?
20090124 00:28:21< cib0> reading that made me laugh.. o.o *smells more discussion*
20090124 00:28:26< Turuk> Created by Leisure Suit Larry and Skele
20090124 00:28:37< Turuk> Leisure Suit Larry was an Adult rated video game....
20090124 00:28:47< Shadow_Master> yeah, read about it
20090124 00:30:03< Turuk> Would it be safe to say this one should probably be pulled down?
20090124 00:30:08< Turuk> 1.4x server SM
20090124 00:30:57< Sirp> Turuk: yes.
20090124 00:31:19< Shadow_Master> Sirp and Soliton have the power :>
20090124 00:31:23 * Turuk leaves it in the hands of those with that power.
20090124 00:31:39 * Sirp has forgotten how to kill it
20090124 00:32:00< Noyga> n8
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20090124 00:32:38< Shadow_Master> then only Soliton can save the virgins!
20090124 00:34:13< cib0> other than it probably being pretty lame, what exactly is the problem with it?
20090124 00:34:42< Turuk> Well the whole point of the scenario is that you have to survive long enough to complete the blood sacrifice of the virgin women
20090124 00:35:08< Shadow_Master> so it is in the borderline of "bad taste"
20090124 00:35:11< Turuk> I just figured human sacrifice in cold blood might be a no-no :P
20090124 00:35:41< Shadow_Master> even though Ivanovic likes to perform those sacrifices from time to time ;)
20090124 00:36:38< cib0> uhm..
20090124 00:37:55< Ivanovic> thouh shall not awake Ivanovic!
20090124 00:38:24< Shadow_Master> haha
20090124 00:38:30< Soliton> Add-on deleted.
20090124 00:38:30< Shadow_Master> insomnia eh?
20090124 00:38:33< cib0> human sacrifices in cold-blood have appeared to be a substantial part of Wesnoth to me.. especially when it comes to leveling your guys
20090124 00:39:00< Ivanovic> is it just removed because talking about "virgin sacrifises"?
20090124 00:39:12< Ivanovic> so eg some "villain sacrifice" would be fine?
20090124 00:39:25< Ivanovic> (since, uhm, i would expect something like this when playing the really bad dude)
20090124 00:40:21< Turuk> That is why I posed the question here about removal. :P
20090124 00:40:35< Turuk> I was not saying It must go!
20090124 00:41:06< Turuk> But I just thought the whole killing in combat to level is different from the whole point being to sacrifice humans.
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20090124 00:41:36< Shadow_Master> specially virgins
20090124 00:41:52< Sapient> what kind of a world is it when a guy can't sacrifice a few virgins :P
20090124 00:42:03 * Shadow_Master hands Ivanovic some sleep pills
20090124 00:42:19 * Ivanovic refuses to take pills for this
20090124 00:42:35< Ivanovic> better sacrifie some virgins to spend me sleep, this will work better!
20090124 00:42:48< Turuk> Sapient, everyone knows you just have to be a bit more subtle about your sacrifices. ;)
20090124 00:42:55< Sapient> you know, even the bible contains a tale of virgin sacrifice
20090124 00:42:58< Shadow_Master> technically, we just sacrificed some (in the form of WML)
20090124 00:43:24< Shadow_Master> anyway, I never said "offensive OMG nuke it" either :->
20090124 00:43:39< Ivanovic> okay, really heading off to bed now, n8
20090124 00:43:43 * Soliton wonders if the bible contains nudity.
20090124 00:43:49< Ivanovic> Soliton: sure it does
20090124 00:43:52< Shadow_Master> sure it does
20090124 00:43:58< Ivanovic> adam and eve were not created with cloth...
20090124 00:44:26< Sapient> In the book of Judges chapter 11 verse 31 we are told that the Israelite judge, Jephthah, made a rash vow to God before going into battle. He vowed that he would sacrifice the first thing that comes out of his door if he came back from battle with victory. He specifically says that he would sacrifice it as a 'burnt offering.' When he returned, the first 'thing' that came out of his house was his daughter.
20090124 00:44:29< Soliton> looks like we have our guiding principles layed out then.
20090124 00:44:38< Ivanovic> there even is some sex stuff in the bible (whores and all this stuff included)
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20090124 00:45:21< Ivanovic> so if we just allow stuff that is also done/mentioned in the bible, we can basically do whatever we want
20090124 00:45:24< Sirp> Ivanovic: actually there is quite a lot.
20090124 00:45:35< cib0> i'd like to see some really bad-taste anti-scenario, just to break the boredom of those unoriginal add-ons up a little
20090124 00:45:36< Ivanovic> there are genocides and all this stuff
20090124 00:45:37< zookeeper> what the heck did the guy expect to "come out of his door"? his bookshelf? a goat?
20090124 00:45:41< Sapient> Soliton: well, the Bible doesn't contain nude *pictures*, not my version at least :P
20090124 00:45:51< Sirp> zookeeper: yeah I've never understood that. It's bizarre.
20090124 00:46:06< Ivanovic> Sapient: uhm, you know that in the old days it was common to "ease books up" by illustrations?
20090124 00:46:08< zookeeper> the guy sounds like a complete idiot to me ;)
20090124 00:46:22 * Shadow_Master threatens Ivanovic with a hasty translation update of all textdomains
20090124 00:46:23< Sirp> though there is debate about whether 'sacrifice' meant 'kill' or more like make her some kind of temple servant.
20090124 00:46:26 * Ivanovic would not be suprised by such illustrations showing naked people
20090124 00:46:40< markm_> would sacrificing any old virgins work though or did it mean scantily-clad virgins in particular ;)
20090124 00:46:41< Sapient> if you want to know the Biblical opinion on looking upon people's nakedness, I could give you a lot of references
20090124 00:46:41 * Ivanovic threatens Shadow_Master with just ignoring the updates for hours
20090124 00:47:03 * Shadow_Master does not care about that threat, that happens very often
20090124 00:47:08< Ivanovic> :)
20090124 00:47:17< Shadow_Master> when did this turn into ##religion, btw?
20090124 00:47:28< markm_> for a fun one maybe one where you have to sacrifice versions instead
20090124 00:47:31< Shadow_Master> (if that even exists)
20090124 00:47:36< Sapient> Shadow_Master: it's more like ##jokes
20090124 00:47:42< Ivanovic> Sapient: the bible is "interesting" as in basically everything you can imagine is mentioned there, stuff that goes a lot further than we will go in wesnoth
20090124 00:47:52< Shadow_Master> Sapient: nah, ##politics
20090124 00:48:10< markm_> scantily-spec'd versions with lots of naked code
20090124 00:48:27< Ivanovic> and since it is the base for most people complaining about "uhhh, so much nudity is bad!!!", why not reference those parts of the bible where the "bad stuff" is explicilty done as "not really bad"
20090124 00:48:31< Ivanovic> ;)
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20090124 00:48:46< Shadow_Master> just in time for the cookies, Jetrel !
20090124 00:48:53< Jetrel> yey
20090124 00:48:59< Sapient> look, I'm the one who asked to leave religion out of the nudity discussion
20090124 00:49:06< Ivanovic> (and if we would use some really strict moral codec we would probably follow the coran and not display any females at all (unless they are completely covered in "whatever")
20090124 00:49:07< Sapient> you were the guys who brought it in
20090124 00:49:24< zookeeper> yay Jetrel
20090124 00:49:24< Jetrel> whoa, whoa - I'm not getting involved in any discussion here.
20090124 00:49:38< zookeeper> Jetrel, also check the dragon thread in art contrib, i see you haven't chimed in there yet
20090124 00:49:58< Sapient> Jetrel: what is your opinion on sacrificing virgins? :p
20090124 00:50:05 * Soliton watches his plan in motion... and goes to sacrifice some virgins.
20090124 00:50:06< Shadow_Master> Jetrel, also I hope you have that awesome Sylph ready for commit :P
20090124 00:50:09< Ivanovic> has to be done every now and then
20090124 00:50:43< Ivanovic> okay, now i will again try to find the way to my bed even though no virgins were offered to make me sleep better
20090124 00:50:44< Ivanovic> :(
20090124 00:50:47< Ivanovic> n8
20090124 00:50:49< Shadow_Master> haha :p
20090124 00:51:07< thespaceinvader> crikey, Jetrel's popular today
20090124 00:51:29< Shadow_Master> he's always been popular!
20090124 00:52:06< Shadow_Master> pretty much like Ivanovic 
20090124 00:52:29< Sapient> while I am *willing* to discuss the biblical position on looking at naked chicks, I am *deliberately* refraining from doing so as part of any argument about our policies
20090124 00:53:29< Sapient> so I don't care what the heck Torrangan thinks
20090124 00:53:31< loonycyborg> Sapient: Yes. That's because our policies aren't based on bible :P
20090124 00:53:36< Shadow_Master> Torangan?
20090124 00:53:47< Shadow_Master> he didn't say anything AFAIK, at least not directed to you...
20090124 00:55:06< Sapient> loonycyborg: did I say that they are or should be?
20090124 00:55:40< loonycyborg> Sapient: IIRC you didn't. And that's good!
20090124 00:56:37< Sapient> ok, thanks ;)
20090124 00:58:35< Sapient> I wonder if Skele was deliberately testing the limits of our censorship policies? In any case, I didn't play it but sounded harmless joke
20090124 01:00:38< Shadow_Master> read the WML! ;)
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20090124 01:40:03< Shadow_Master> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23813
20090124 01:40:36< Shadow_Master> that is a really detailed problem report
20090124 01:41:38< Turuk> He got a hug.
20090124 01:41:45-!- cib0 [n=cib@p4FD0D16C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
20090124 01:41:59< Sapient> wow, someone finally researched, summarized, and posted link to a previous thread about their topic
20090124 01:42:17< Sapient> the end of the world is nigh
20090124 01:42:27< Shadow_Master> he must be added as Forum Regular now! :P
20090124 01:43:56< AI0867> wasn't that an issue fixed in 1.4.6 or 1.4.7?
20090124 01:44:44< AI0867> or not, was thinking of something else with similar symptoms
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20090124 02:44:18< [Relic]> Hello :)
20090124 02:56:55< Turuk> Ah, and Kill the Virgins returns
20090124 02:59:49< Soliton> well, it seems quite fine to me.
20090124 03:01:09< Soliton> though hardly balanced when you play it with empty slots!
20090124 03:01:46< Turuk> I think that's true of all survivals ;)
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20090124 03:02:58< Turuk> So human sacrifice is +?
20090124 03:03:17< Turuk> I always thought of that as a term to describe some people's MP playing styles
20090124 03:03:58< Soliton> hmm?
20090124 03:04:25< Turuk> I meant put ok instead of +
20090124 03:04:30< Turuk> And then made a poor joke
20090124 03:05:07 * Sirp_ looks really really confused.
20090124 03:05:23< Soliton> well, it's silly flavor text? not sure if you can take much offense to that.
20090124 03:05:51< Turuk> True, I was just saying the concept might be a bit much.
20090124 03:06:01 * Turuk does not really care either way if it stays or goes.
20090124 03:06:19< Turuk> I just did not know the policy
20090124 03:06:49 * Soliton shrugs.
20090124 03:07:39< Soliton> i don't think we have any hard and fast rules except copyright stuff.
20090124 03:08:05< Turuk> Fair enough.
20090124 03:08:45< Sirp_> so an idea: how about we have a flag to set a campaign as "mature". Then we ask creators to flag their campaign as "mature" if it contains mature themes. Then make a check box for people to check if they want to see the mature content on the campaign server.
20090124 03:10:13< Soliton> sounds good. people have put explicit warnings on their content before but of course you only see those once you have the addon downloaded and installed.
20090124 03:11:12< Sirp_> I mean if someone wants to have sexual themes and blood and gore and virgin sacrifies in their campaign but is happy to mark it as mature, I don't really have a problem with it.
20090124 03:13:41< Turuk> I like that idea as well, I know that A New Order used that kind of idea
20090124 03:13:45< Turuk> due to the sex scene
20090124 03:18:35< Sirp_> mordocai: ping.
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20090124 03:26:02< Shadow_Master> Turuk: it wasn't a explicit enough scene! (jk)
20090124 03:26:14< Turuk> Ha maybe
20090124 03:26:35< Shadow_Master> but ANO doesn't have exactly what Sirp_ was talking about because there's no campaignd or engine support for it
20090124 03:27:22< Turuk> No, I know, I was saying it had the warning listed in the description when you went to play it, but like Soliton pointed out, it's a bit late by then
20090124 03:27:35< Shadow_Master> yup.
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20090124 03:34:06< Shadow_Master> https://gna.org/bugs/?12894 sounds like a job for Sapient ? 
20090124 03:34:33< Shadow_Master> same for https://gna.org/bugs/?12885
20090124 03:35:05< Shadow_Master> and https://gna.org/bugs/?12875 ... oh sheep, where's alink when you need him.
20090124 03:35:24< Shadow_Master> 12875 will probably end up taken care of by me :-/
20090124 03:35:48< Shadow_Master> so Sapient, save a life, check if #12894 and #12885 belong to you.
20090124 03:37:23< Soliton> the problem is duplicating a unit without changing its underlying_id granted maybe wesnoth could do that automatically.
20090124 03:38:06< Soliton> but otherwise that's mostly a "so don't do that" kind of thing IMO.
20090124 03:39:04< Shadow_Master> yep. Like modifying a unit's stats while it is attacking using :unit
20090124 03:41:29< Soliton> though an assert is indeed not nice when wesnoth does not (try to) automatically take care of the underlying_id.
20090124 03:56:33< Shadow_Master> ESR_, Sapient one of you may want to check this one too: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?12897
20090124 03:56:39< Shadow_Master> a bug in wmliterator.py or wmllint.
20090124 03:57:43< Shadow_Master> If I post all bugs with wmllint I'll probably flood the bugtracker btw.
20090124 04:00:42 * Shadow_Master closes a bunch of "Fixed" bugs assigned to himself
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20090124 04:06:12< Shadow_Master> boucman : (do you read the logs?) should https://gna.org/bugs/?12835 be assigned to you?
20090124 04:06:21< Shadow_Master> it's about that no-camera-tracking feature
20090124 04:08:09< Shadow_Master> Soliton: should https://gna.org/bugs/?12819 be closed now, or should I wait for ESR_ to decide?
20090124 04:12:57< Soliton> closing should be fine.
20090124 04:17:20< Shadow_Master> done
20090124 04:19:17< Shadow_Master> Jetrel: around?
20090124 04:19:36< Jetrel> yeah
20090124 04:19:37< Shadow_Master> what is https://gna.org/bugs/?11041 actually about?
20090124 04:19:42< Shadow_Master> it is assigned to you.
20090124 04:20:07< Jetrel> oh, yeah.  We need to redo the dragon sooner or later.
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20090124 04:20:22< Jetrel> Fortunately someone on the forums is attempting to do just that.
20090124 04:20:29< Turuk> Or replace it with the worked on one? ahhh
20090124 04:20:36< Turuk> 10 seconds too slow
20090124 04:20:36< Shadow_Master> ah... it does not make much sense to me that art issues are in the bug tracker
20090124 04:20:46< Shadow_Master> only because they never get into it
20090124 04:21:53-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic
20090124 04:22:23< Jetrel> Yeah, IMO, they shouldn't be in there, but I don't really care either way.
20090124 04:24:05 * Shadow_Master off
20090124 04:24:12< Jetrel> likewise
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20090124 04:38:09< CIA-53> ai0867 * r32275 /trunk/data/campaigns/tutorial/scenarios/2_Tutorial.cfg: Fix a moveto filter for the tutorial. (http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=331682#p331682)
20090124 04:39:40< AI0867> wesbot: log 32275
20090124 04:39:43< wesbot> ai0867 * r32275 : Fix a moveto filter for the tutorial. (http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=331682#p331682)
20090124 04:39:46< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=32275
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20090124 06:58:21< Sapient> unit_map should probably be using exceptions instead of asserts...
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20090124 09:55:39< Sapient> hmmm... if I stream to error wml log, it doesn't appear in the chat
20090124 10:09:44< Ivanovic> moin
20090124 10:09:49< Sirp_> hi Ivanovic 
20090124 10:09:57-!- YogiHH [i=YogiHH@c146195.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090124 10:10:02< Sirp_> hi YogiHH 
20090124 10:10:17< YogiHH> hi Sirp_
20090124 10:11:58< Sapient> hi Yogi
20090124 10:12:17< YogiHH> hi Sapient, still awake?
20090124 10:12:25< Sapient> yup
20090124 10:12:29< Sapient> bug stomping
20090124 10:13:11< Sapient> there are apparently a lot of ways to cause assertion failures with WML by vilating the unique id rules
20090124 10:13:20< Sapient> *violating
20090124 10:13:33< YogiHH> yeah, i bet :/
20090124 10:17:40< Sapient> I might have to add a string for this fix
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20090124 10:34:34< Sapient> hi zookeeper
20090124 10:35:23< zookeeper> hello
20090124 10:35:41< Sapient> so if I duplicate a unit with the id=Delfador, and then unstore it in multiple location(s), which one should be able to keep the id of Delfador?
20090124 10:35:52< Sapient> the first one or the last one?
20090124 10:37:55< Sapient> or maybe... all of them?
20090124 10:38:34< Sapient> I think the engine now allows all of them to be id=Delfador
20090124 10:38:51< zookeeper> err, hard to say
20090124 10:38:52< Sapient> the underlying_id, which is a number, must be unique
20090124 10:40:32< Sapient> so we will have to pick which one keeps the underlying_id
20090124 10:41:20< Sapient> I guess the original Delfador will have the rights to his underlying_id
20090124 10:41:25< Sapient> first come, first serve
20090124 10:42:51< zookeeper> i guess
20090124 10:42:59< zookeeper> i consider WML like that to be broken anyway
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20090124 10:47:36< zookeeper> but whatever you do, i suggest printing a user-visible warning
20090124 10:48:50< Sapient> really?
20090124 10:49:02< Sapient> I was going to do that
20090124 10:49:10< Sapient> but now I am starting to change my mind
20090124 10:49:24< Sapient> maybe copying Delfador is a valid use of WML
20090124 10:52:19 * zookeeper shrugs
20090124 10:52:22< zookeeper> i don't mind that
20090124 10:52:45< Sapient> I'll definitely print to stderr, though
20090124 10:52:54< Sapient> ERR_NG
20090124 10:53:14< Sapient> or possibly lg::warn(lg::engine)
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20090124 11:11:55< zookeeper> urgh, i'm an idiot, i broke gathering materials again -.-
20090124 11:16:19-!- ilor [n=user@unaffiliated/ilor] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090124 11:19:38< CIA-53> zookeeper * r32276 /trunk/data/campaigns/Sceptre_of_Fire/scenarios/4_Gathering_Materials.cfg: Don't erase the player's keep.
20090124 11:40:23< Sapient> ha, I was wondering about that
20090124 11:40:46< Sapient> when I read the original commit
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20090124 11:56:04< Mordante> morning
20090124 11:59:07< Sapient> hi Mordante
20090124 11:59:14< Mordante> hi Sapient 
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20090124 12:21:33< CIA-53> mordante * r32277 /trunk/data/gui/default/window/ (message.cfg wml_message.cfg): Split message.cfg.
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20090124 12:46:57< Mordante> hi Kest|Fraith afaik the black terrain with stars was never committed
20090124 12:47:42< CIA-53> mordante * r32278 /trunk/data/gui/default/window/wml_message.cfg: Added some macros to keep the code clean.
20090124 12:55:21-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@91.108.172.60] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090124 13:44:15< CIA-53> sapient * r32279 /trunk/ (changelog src/unit.cpp src/unit.hpp src/unit_map.cpp): 
20090124 13:44:15< CIA-53> WML Engine:
20090124 13:44:15< CIA-53> * Prevent duplicate id conflicts when cloning units with WML (bug #12894)
20090124 13:48:00-!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-24-126-133-155.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit []
20090124 13:52:17< CIA-53> mordante * r32280 /trunk/data/gui/default/window/wml_message.cfg: 
20090124 13:52:17< CIA-53> Centre the portraits if smaller as 100 x 100.
20090124 13:52:17< CIA-53> Note the vertical centring doesn't work entirely since the text height is
20090124 13:52:17< CIA-53> unknown. This might be tuned later by exporting the height of the panel part.
20090124 13:56:26-!- tother [n=tother@nrbg-4dbf9808.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090124 13:56:36< tother> hi
20090124 13:56:52< loonycyborg> hello
20090124 13:57:41< tother> can anyone explain me what the a*-algorithm does in the battle for wesnoth?
20090124 14:00:22< ilor> tother: pathfinding I'd guess
20090124 14:01:02< tother> yes I know but only for the artificial intelligence or also for moving your units
20090124 14:01:31< boucman> both, I think
20090124 14:10:43< boucman> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=334785#p334785
20090124 14:30:10< grzywacz> tother, both
20090124 14:32:58< CIA-53> thespaceinvader * r32281 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Add LordBob's Human Pikeman portrait, update changelog.
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20090124 14:35:54< tother> ok thank you 
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20090124 17:05:48< Cernunnos> hi, does anyone knows the WML to apply a probability to a terrain transition?
20090124 17:06:27< Cernunnos> (for the same effet as terrain_base_prob for tiles)
20090124 17:07:35< Mordante> zookeeper might know
20090124 17:08:17< Cernunnos> fabi told me the same thing on #wesnoth
20090124 17:08:21< Cernunnos> :)
20090124 17:08:45< Cernunnos> but i think he doesn't like terrain WML
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20090124 17:11:32< Mordante> good luck finding somebody who likes terrain WML :-P
20090124 17:12:52< cib0> hi
20090124 17:12:56< Cernunnos> thanks a lot
20090124 17:14:30-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090124 17:15:59< CIA-53> mordante * r32282 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: 
20090124 17:15:59< CIA-53> Add more test cases for the dialogs.
20090124 17:15:59< CIA-53> In order to better test the dialogs and changes to it more test cases were
20090124 17:15:59< CIA-53> needed.
20090124 17:16:48-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacior@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090124 17:17:57< markm_> cernunnos i saw some way of doing random in 1.5.x not sure if 1.4.x has it
20090124 17:18:22< Shadow_Master> hi
20090124 17:18:27< Cernunnos> markm this is intended for 1.5
20090124 17:18:29< Cernunnos> hi
20090124 17:18:59< Shadow_Master> Cernunnos: ask zookeeper 
20090124 17:19:36< Shadow_Master> he knows all about terrain graphics WML, and if he doesn't know, he knows how to force Wesnoth to give him the knowledge
20090124 17:19:46< Cernunnos> third person to tell me that...
20090124 17:20:16< Shadow_Master> Sapient: I told you you can't just stream errors to the wml logdomain
20090124 17:20:31< Shadow_Master> Only [wml_message] knows the trick to echo them to the in-game chat
20090124 17:20:32< Cernunnos> zookeeper, do you know the WML to apply a probability to a terrain transition?
20090124 17:21:07< Shadow_Master> Sapient: feel free to change that, but I'm not going to introduce features now. We are in feature freeze, remember.
20090124 17:22:32< cib0> it's annoying when a project has no irc channel.. you cant just storm in and ask questions, you actually need to read the documentation first :p
20090124 17:22:45< YogiHH> lol
20090124 17:24:36< Shadow_Master> sapient: and you are wrong in bug #12897
20090124 17:24:40< Shadow_Master> My code does load...
20090124 17:24:49< cib0> and the only viable documentation seems to be a .pdf.. harder to get the info you need out of that if you ask me
20090124 17:25:27< Shadow_Master> Sapient: can you tell me why now?
20090124 17:25:44< zookeeper> Cernunnos, well, sure...i don't know if any existing macros allow you to do that though
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20090124 17:26:54< zookeeper> i don't think there's any macros for that
20090124 17:27:06< zookeeper> you think you really need to be able to do that?
20090124 17:27:23< Cernunnos> zookeeper, well, for a tip, i haven't make it using transition_base_prob... :/
20090124 17:27:57< zookeeper> i have never seen any "transition_base_prob"
20090124 17:28:01< zookeeper> what's that supposed to be?
20090124 17:28:08< Cernunnos> actually i tried to improve the dirt transition, so i made two complete set of transition (for 1 adjacent only so far..)
20090124 17:28:38< Cernunnos> nothing, i though that if it was terrain_base_prob, there could be transition_base_prob
20090124 17:29:20< Cernunnos> so a probability in transition would alternatively use 1 trans of each set and improve the result notabily imo
20090124 17:29:41< Cernunnos> *notably?
20090124 17:33:08-!- cib0 [n=cib@p4FD0F9F1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
20090124 17:33:42< zookeeper> you mean TERRAIN_BASE_PROB, which conveniently immediately tells you're talking of a macro
20090124 17:33:59< zookeeper> anyways
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20090124 17:34:51< zookeeper> i guess the answer to your question is yes. the terrain graphics engine can do anything.
20090124 17:36:09< Cernunnos> ok, it can do it, but so far the function or macro for doing it as never been used maybe not even created
20090124 17:36:12< zookeeper> after i've finished making dinner, pancake and stuff i might look into it
20090124 17:36:14< zookeeper> correct
20090124 17:36:27< Cernunnos> don't bother with this for now
20090124 17:36:35< zookeeper> i'm guessing it'd be somewhat trivial to make
20090124 17:37:05< Cernunnos> i asked because i wanted to test if the tiles were matching one with another, but i'll do that later :)
20090124 17:38:03< Cernunnos> i'll make a post on the forum, this way you'll know what i did, thanks a lot, have good pancakes
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20090124 17:38:16< zookeeper> was it dirt that you were working on?
20090124 17:38:38< zookeeper> there's a bunch of some old other tiles which might be useful if you'd want to make new base tiles for it
20090124 17:39:13< zookeeper> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8467 and http://wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18155
20090124 17:40:23-!- YogiHH [i=YogiHH@d082004.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit ["Verlassend"]
20090124 17:48:51< Cernunnos> nice =)
20090124 17:53:00< Patterner> r32282 still segfaults.
20090124 18:03:31< cib0> has Kill the Virgins been removed yesterday? because it's up there again, lol
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20090124 18:18:56< Mordante> cib0 Soliton said he removed it
20090124 18:19:15< boucman> was it inapropriate ?
20090124 18:20:47< Mordante> no idea, I never looked at it
20090124 18:22:28< CIA-53> mordante * r32283 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: 
20090124 18:22:28< CIA-53> Move the speaker handling of the message.
20090124 18:22:28< CIA-53> Refactor a bit so the code looks cleaner and make it easier to rewrite the old
20090124 18:22:28< CIA-53> dialogs to the new code.
20090124 18:25:49< CIA-53> mordante * r32284 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: Fix a minor problem with my last commit.
20090124 18:36:50< CIA-53> mordante * r32285 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: 
20090124 18:36:50< CIA-53> More refactoring for message.
20090124 18:36:50< CIA-53> Also split get_image() and get_caption, get_image() needs more work later.
20090124 18:38:58< CIA-53> mordante * r32286 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: Add documentation for my last commit.
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20090124 19:04:32< boucman> loonycyborg: around ?
20090124 19:05:04< loonycyborg> Yes.
20090124 19:06:13< boucman> I can't compile with scons
20090124 19:06:22< boucman> scons: *** Found dependency cycle(s):
20090124 19:06:22< boucman>   locales -> locales
20090124 19:06:22< boucman>   translations -> translations
20090124 19:06:46< boucman> I interupted mid-build last time, but I don't know if it changed anything/how to fix it
20090124 19:07:03< loonycyborg> Perhaps prefix points to your working copy?
20090124 19:07:17< boucman> ?
20090124 19:07:22< boucman> not sure what you mean
20090124 19:07:32< boucman>  prefsdir = '.wesnoth-dev'
20090124 19:07:37< boucman> atadir = '/home/rosen/wesnoth/trunk'
20090124 19:07:37< loonycyborg> If it's some breakage caused by interrupt you can delete build dir.
20090124 19:07:52< boucman> ok, trying that
20090124 19:08:31< loonycyborg> This dependency cycle can be caused by installing translations in the same place where they're located, in your working copy.
20090124 19:10:05< loonycyborg> So if your working copy is in /home/rosen/wesnoth/trunk, datadir shouldn't be set to it.
20090124 19:10:29< boucman> loonycyborg: why not ?
20090124 19:10:45< boucman> that's actually what I want to do, since that's where svn will update the data
20090124 19:11:23< loonycyborg> because it'll cause scons install will try to install translations into themselves.
20090124 19:11:48< boucman> I never run scons install
20090124 19:12:01< loonycyborg> Though nls=false will solve this.
20090124 19:15:37< loonycyborg> Also, using destdir=/tmp/wesnoth
20090124 19:19:14< Mordante> I'm off bye
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20090124 19:22:07< loonycyborg> Actually, you don't need to set datadir. The binary can automatically find data if you run it from trunk root.
20090124 19:22:26< loonycyborg> *When it's located in trunk root.
20090124 19:29:45< boucman> loonycyborg: same error (the error is weird, though, it happens after building)
20090124 19:29:55< boucman> Hardlinking build/debug/wesnothd to wesnothd-debug
20090124 19:29:55< boucman> scons: done building targets.
20090124 19:29:55< boucman> scons: *** Found dependency cycle(s):
20090124 19:29:55< boucman>   locales -> locales
20090124 19:29:55< boucman>   translations -> translations
20090124 19:29:55< boucman> File "/usr/lib/scons/SCons/Taskmaster.py", line 800, in cleanup
20090124 19:30:41< loonycyborg> Did you upgradee scons recently?
20090124 19:30:48< loonycyborg> *upgrade
20090124 19:31:44< loonycyborg> Perhaps they've added some new checks for dependency cycles..
20090124 19:33:00< boucman> not that I know of, but since I'm using ubuntu it's possible
20090124 19:33:05< loonycyborg> The simplest way is to run scons destdir=/tmp/wesnoth. This won't make a difference since you don't install anyway..
20090124 19:33:24< boucman> ok, will try now
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20090124 19:41:24< loonycyborg> boucman: That error doesn't prevent the build from finishing, only causes scons to exit with an error. Are you running it in some kind of script?
20090124 19:41:39< boucman> nope
20090124 19:41:43< boucman> "nice scons"
20090124 19:44:19< loonycyborg> I personally don't set datadir to location of trunk, since I've made it search for data using /proc/self/exe :)
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20090124 19:47:00< boucman> loonycyborg: that fixed it, thx
20090124 19:47:11< loonycyborg> np
20090124 19:56:18-!- Sirp_ [n=me@c-71-198-3-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090124 19:56:23< Sirp_> hi
20090124 19:56:30< loonycyborg> hello
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20090124 19:58:44< grzywacz> hey Sirp_ 
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20090124 20:09:48< CIA-53> zookeeper * r32287 /trunk/data/campaigns/Descent_Into_Darkness/scenarios/08_A_Small_Favor2.cfg: {TREMOR} -> {QUAKE}
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20090124 20:30:07-!- [Relic] [n=[Relic]@76.229.202.137] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090124 20:31:02< [Relic]> Hello :)
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20090124 21:40:40< zookeeper> Ivanovic, i'm going to need a fix a bug with the quick leaders (like steelclad) not getting the HP reduction they should. any problem with that (since it leads to version incompatibility)?
20090124 21:41:15< Ivanovic> version incompatibility is no problem so far
20090124 21:41:21< zookeeper> good
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20090124 21:49:02< CIA-53> zookeeper * r32288 /trunk/data/multiplayer/eras.cfg: Fixed quick leaders not getting the -5% HP reduction.
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20090124 21:54:03-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacior@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090124 21:54:20< Shadow_Master> hi
20090124 21:59:20< thespaceinvader> Shadow_Master: evening
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20090124 22:08:06< Shadow_Master> shat.
20090124 22:08:22< Shadow_Master> I said "string of pearls" as a placeholder and it turns out to be the correct term according to my dictionary
20090124 22:08:44< boucman> Shadow_Master: have you never seen a perl collar ?
20090124 22:09:49< Shadow_Master> no :)
20090124 22:09:59 * Shadow_Master never stops in front of a jewelry store.
20090124 22:11:14 * Shadow_Master searches for references
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20090124 22:27:04< Shadow_Master> boucman: what do you mean with your latest comment in the dragon sprite thread? what "commit"?
20090124 22:27:13< Shadow_Master> is it, as in the display class "commit" procedure?
20090124 22:27:34< boucman> I mean that we would do custom ellipse only once the dragon is commited to svn 
20090124 22:27:58< Shadow_Master> ah
20090124 22:31:14-!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-24-126-133-155.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090124 22:34:16< Sapient> yo Shikadi
20090124 22:35:15< Sapient> still passing wmliterator that bad WML? :p
20090124 22:36:15< Shadow_Master> zookeeper: you double posted after me.
20090124 22:36:18< Shadow_Master> bad example.
20090124 22:36:46< Shadow_Master> and no, [time_area] changes ToD but not lightning levels. That's an ancient FR that even has a discussion in the dev. discussions forum
20090124 22:37:10< Shadow_Master> Sapient: well... why the WML doesn't cause a preprocessor warning?
20090124 22:37:34< Sapient> because you got lucky
20090124 22:37:35< Shadow_Master> and what would be the best way to see if all the macros are well defined from Wesnoth?
20090124 22:38:11< Sapient> #  comment does not stop  #enddef
20090124 22:38:39< Sapient> so if you had been inside a #define, that would have ended it
20090124 22:38:45< Shadow_Master> that is surprising though. I read the tokenizer and understood that anything from # to \n is discarded
20090124 22:39:05< Sapient> are you claiming to actually understand preprocessor.cpp?
20090124 22:39:08< Shadow_Master> or perhaps I'm confused by my own tokenizer implementation
20090124 22:39:52< Shadow_Master> um, I am not sure whose's tokenizer implements what I said :P I cloned Wesnoth's tokenizer for my own inane purposes some time ago
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20090124 22:40:35< Sapient> oh? well I've been saying we need a replacement for some time
20090124 22:40:38< zookeeper> Shadow_Master, "[time_area] changes ToD but not lightning levels"?
20090124 22:40:44< Shadow_Master> zookeeper: yep.
20090124 22:40:53< zookeeper> that's a bug, because lighting level is part of a ToD.
20090124 22:41:26< Shadow_Master> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9122
20090124 22:41:27< zookeeper> ah, hmm.
20090124 22:42:29< zookeeper> yeah, makes sense that way. maybe a SLFless [time_area] should just change the "global" schedule of the scenario?
20090124 22:42:39< zookeeper> since it effectively does that anyway.
20090124 22:43:00< Shadow_Master> not time for features...
20090124 22:43:34< zookeeper> it's a bugfix :|
20090124 22:43:51< Shadow_Master> I'd prefer to create a completely new tag for that purpose, e.g. [modify_time_of_day] (just as we have a [store_time_of_day]
20090124 22:43:51< Shadow_Master> argh, lagging.
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20090124 22:46:36 * Sapient agrees with zookeeper
20090124 22:47:30< Shadow_Master> changing the behavior of a tag depending on what SLF is used, if any at all is... :|
20090124 22:47:36< Sapient> it's intuitive; settings time_area with no filter seems like it should affect the global schedule
20090124 22:48:15< Shadow_Master> and is a feature.
20090124 22:48:37< Sapient> maybe ;)
20090124 22:48:38< Shadow_Master> how many other features do you want me to implement so that Ivanovic can blame me and not you :|
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20090124 22:49:21< Sapient> it's borderline; I'd consider it an enhancement to an existing feature
20090124 22:49:44< Sapient> not a "bug" or a "new feature"
20090124 22:50:08-!- Cernunnos [n=Cernunno@85.69.131.129] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
20090124 22:50:10< zookeeper> it doesn't give any real new functionality IMO, it just makes it do what you'd expect it to do (and which happens to be impossible to do any other way)
20090124 22:50:29< Shadow_Master> I think it'll be a very intrusive change.
20090124 22:50:49< zookeeper> err, in what way?
20090124 22:51:01< Shadow_Master> gamestatus and game_state classes are not really stuff I like to modify.
20090124 22:52:05< Shadow_Master> I'll probably need to backup the original ToD somewhere
20090124 22:52:14< Shadow_Master> because, you know, [time_areas] _can be removed_ nowadays
20090124 22:52:26< zookeeper> wot?
20090124 22:52:36< Shadow_Master> didn't I document that?
20090124 22:52:39< zookeeper> no
20090124 22:53:11< Shadow_Master> they can also be assigned ids
20090124 22:53:29< Shadow_Master> (of course, otherwise removing them would be mayhem)
20090124 22:54:25< zookeeper> sounds complicated.
20090124 22:54:42< Shadow_Master> right, I remember now. I postponed documenting it for the next day after the commit, and I was left without Internet for two months
20090124 22:56:40< Shadow_Master> and [time_area] remove=yes [/time_area] wipes out all time_areas
20090124 22:58:11< Shadow_Master> I should probably make [time_area] id= a comma-separated list to go with the trend
20090124 22:58:19< Shadow_Master> that counts as a bugfix ;)
20090124 22:59:07< zookeeper> what happens when i give a schedule in [time_area], will the first ToD in the schedule always be used this turn, or will it calculate which ToD of the schedule would be used for this turn if the schedule had been active from turn 1?
20090124 22:59:36< Shadow_Master> depends at what time you insert the [time_area] I bet.
20090124 22:59:55< zookeeper> at a time when the question would make some sense? -.-
20090124 23:00:11< Shadow_Master> prestart, start ? then the second is what will happen IIUC
20090124 23:00:12< zookeeper> urgh, bad wording but you get the idea anyway.
20090124 23:00:46< Shadow_Master> the ToD modifiers are commited immediately on [time_area]
20090124 23:01:17< zookeeper> turn 3
20090124 23:01:23< zookeeper> what happens?
20090124 23:02:09< Shadow_Master> the time_area has effect as soon as it is applied I said.
20090124 23:02:19< Shadow_Master> even during an event
20090124 23:02:42< zookeeper> of course it has effect immediately...nevermind, i'll test it
20090124 23:03:51< Shadow_Master> I forgot to write in the wiki that it uses a true SLF even.
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20090124 23:05:28< zookeeper> yeah, looks like it just starts from the first given ToD immediately
20090124 23:05:38< zookeeper> otherwise i'd have deemed the removal feature unnecessary ;)
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20090124 23:07:23< Sirp__> hi YogiHH 
20090124 23:07:34< YogiHH> hi Sirp__
20090124 23:09:04< Shadow_Master> ah, you were speaking of the [time_area]'s own schedule...
20090124 23:16:33< Shadow_Master> Sapient: perhaps the preprocessor is just ignoring "orphan" #enddef s
20090124 23:16:58< Sapient> right
20090124 23:17:13< Shadow_Master> or perhaps the macro MAP_HEIGHT_TO_VARIABLE is defined and I didn't even notice it :p
20090124 23:17:19< Sapient> but it's still a bad idea to leave it laying around
20090124 23:17:32< Sapient> so I think it deserves a warning
20090124 23:17:48< Sapient> besides, wmliterator has no way of knowing where any file might get included
20090124 23:17:50< Shadow_Master> what is the best way to "comment" a preprocessor directive then'
20090124 23:18:01< Sapient> #!define
20090124 23:18:13< Sapient> or # #!define
20090124 23:18:27< Sapient> this is what we use on macros.cfg
20090124 23:18:28< Shadow_Master> oh yeah, the commented macros *are* defined
20090124 23:19:17< Sapient> better yet, we should probably get a multiline comment syntax
20090124 23:19:18< Shadow_Master> Mordante: unit sprites are drawing out of the message boxes for me in the new dialogs
20090124 23:19:35< Sapient> ### multiline comment ###
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20090124 23:22:17< Shadow_Master_> Sapient: ehm, it isn't really taking the commented macros into account...
20090124 23:22:44< Shadow_Master_> {MAP_HEIGHT_TO_VARIABLE foo} -> error config: Could not open file data/MAP_HEIGHT_TO_VARIABLE
20090124 23:22:54< Shadow_Master_> and that's one of the "commented" macros
20090124 23:22:56< Sapient> *sigh*
20090124 23:22:59< Shadow_Master> #*    *#
20090124 23:22:59< Shadow_Master> argh, disconnected again
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20090124 23:23:14< Sapient> was my test not conclusive enough for you?
20090124 23:23:38< Shadow_Master_> what?
20090124 23:23:49< Shadow_Master_> I was talking about the in-game preprocessor
20090124 23:23:56< Sapient> me too
20090124 23:24:05< Sapient> read my comment on gna
20090124 23:24:12< Shadow_Master_> so... the ##define is ignored, but the #             #enddef is?
20090124 23:24:26< Shadow_Master_> and do you think I wouldn't have spoken about it on IRC without reading your comment in Gna?
20090124 23:24:39< Shadow_Master_> it's the first thing I saw when viewing my email inbox...
20090124 23:25:03< Sapient> I believe the ##define is ignored yes
20090124 23:25:20< Shadow_Master_> then it is a bug :|
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20090124 23:25:25< Sapient> but my test shows coclusively that the # ... #enddef caused a problem
20090124 23:25:33< Sapient> so wmliterator is CORRECT
20090124 23:25:43< Shadow_Master> yes, but it is a bug in the preprocessor.
20090124 23:25:45< Sapient> it should issue a warning
20090124 23:25:47< Shadow_Master> and must be fixed, therefore.
20090124 23:26:01< Shadow_Master> argh, have it your way then.
20090124 23:26:12< Sapient> the behavior of the preprocessor has a number of problems
20090124 23:26:32< Shadow_Master> yes, "undocumented", "undocumented" and "undocumented"
20090124 23:26:53< Sapient> right, why don't you replace it with your implementation then?
20090124 23:27:06< Shadow_Master> because it isn't completed?
20090124 23:27:15< Shadow_Master> I abandoned it long time ago, and I only finished the tokenizer.
20090124 23:27:27< Sapient> ok
20090124 23:30:41 * crimson_penguin has a mere 36 messages to read on the wesnoth-ml
20090124 23:30:49< crimson_penguin> err, wesnoth-dev ml
20090124 23:32:34< Shadow_Master> Sapient: have you read my comment in the mid-campaign difficulty switch FR?
20090124 23:32:44< Sapient> yeah, I read it
20090124 23:33:02< Sapient> I don't really have any comment at this point
20090124 23:33:12< Shadow_Master> ah, okay.
20090124 23:33:32< Sapient> seems like one of those "would be nice" things but nobody cares enough about it to adopt it
20090124 23:38:24< crimson_penguin> http://codepad.org/oC0nDd51 <- this "fixes" the problem of Wesnoth defaulting to 16-bit color, but only in certain situations
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20090124 23:38:54< crimson_penguin> that is, it doesn't fix it for when you change resolution from the menu in preferences, or resize the window
20090124 23:39:00< crimson_penguin> I couldn't find where that's handled
20090124 23:39:09< grzywacz> crimson_penguin, video mode setting code is a mess
20090124 23:39:32< grzywacz> crimson_penguin, I'll try to clean it up after I'm done with commandline :(
20090124 23:39:32< crimson_penguin> well, this patch does make it better at least
20090124 23:39:38< crimson_penguin> yay!
20090124 23:39:55< crimson_penguin> better as in, it behaves better - not less of a mess ;)
20090124 23:40:15< grzywacz> looks reasonable for a quick hack
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20090124 23:41:52< crimson_penguin> I was reading that "review by a professional game designer", and I bet he was hit by the 16-bit color
20090124 23:42:02-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacior@unaffiliated/shadowmaster/x-275924] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090124 23:42:10< crimson_penguin> if you have a decent screen, it really makes things look a whole lot worse
20090124 23:42:40< crimson_penguin> anyway, I have to go eat dinner
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20090124 23:43:17< crimson_penguin> hejdå
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20090124 23:45:30< CIA-53> shadowmaster * r32289 /trunk/ (changelog src/game_events.cpp): 
20090124 23:45:30< CIA-53> [time_area], in EventWML, can now accept comma-separated lists of area
20090124 23:45:30< CIA-53> ids for removing, but not for inserting; in the latter case, only the
20090124 23:45:30< CIA-53> first id is considered to avoid stacking time_areas over a single location
20090124 23:45:30< CIA-53> by accident.
20090124 23:55:58< Shadow_Master> put the [time_area] documentation in order.
20090124 23:58:33< Shadow_Master> and linkified wml_message in the WML tags bar
20090124 23:59:17< Shadow_Master> who removed the --compress and --decompress switches?
20090124 23:59:29< Shadow_Master> they are still useful for things like the save_index ...
--- Log closed Sun Jan 25 00:00:56 2009