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20090123 10:36:54< Ivanovic> moin
20090123 10:39:11< Cernunnos> hello
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20090123 12:15:58< malicor> hi
20090123 12:16:24< malicor> with what [filter] can i find out (in an [event]) if a new turn for a player who still got his king occured
20090123 12:16:46< malicor> [filter] side=1,2,3 [/filter] strangely never triggers my event :( anyone knows whats wrong with that one ?
20090123 12:17:24< zookeeper> read EventWML more closely.
20090123 12:17:46< malicor> i did
20090123 12:18:30< zookeeper> then you'd know that you can't filter an event which doesn't involve a unit.
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20090123 12:19:42< malicor> oh
20090123 12:19:47< malicor> hmm
20090123 12:19:53< zookeeper> what you probably want is a side turn event which triggers every turn. then just use an [if] to figure out if the current side has a leader.
20090123 12:20:13< malicor> i do use a side turn event, yes
20090123 12:21:14< malicor> [event] name=side turn firs_time_only=no [gold] side=1 amount=+8 [/gold] [/event]
20090123 12:21:31< malicor> but i want it to only happen if it's a sides-turn who is (a) a pc, not ai and (b) still got a king
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20090123 12:26:23< Ken_Oh> malicor, you just need to make some [if] [then] statements
20090123 12:27:31< Ken_Oh> if side_number = the side and if have_unit canrecruit=yes then [gold] etc.
20090123 12:28:35< malicor> have_unit canrecruit=yes sounds nice
20090123 12:28:37< malicor> i will try that
20090123 12:29:16< malicor> is it [if] side_number=1,2,3 have_unit canrecruit=yes [then]
20090123 12:29:17< malicor> or
20090123 12:29:28< malicor> [if] side_number=1,2,3 [and] have_unit...
20090123 12:30:53< zookeeper> Ken_Oh, you see why i never try to give people pseudocode?
20090123 12:31:28< Ken_Oh> haha, yeah, i should have figured
20090123 12:31:53< Ken_Oh> malicor, look at examples of [if] statements in campaigns (any campaign really, it's everywhere)
20090123 12:32:27< zookeeper> and don't write a single tag or key without first looking at the wiki to see if it really exists or not.
20090123 12:32:27< malicor> ok :)
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20090123 12:45:35< malicor> i wrote this as event now: http://sekati.pastebin.com/m22641ead but it still seems to trigger side4
20090123 12:47:16< malicor> (maybe someone could have a look, please?:)
20090123 12:48:49< zookeeper> <zookeeper> and don't write a single tag or key without first looking at the wiki to see if it really exists or not. <--- i'll correct myself: ...without first looking at the wiki to see whether it's really valid inside the tag you'd be putting it inside of.
20090123 12:49:14< zookeeper> (side_number= in [if] sure isn't)
20090123 12:49:50< zookeeper> not to mention that a single standard unit filter can of course contain as many keys as you want for filtering on different things simultaneously
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20090123 12:56:14< malicor> ah
20090123 12:57:30< malicor> i cant find side_number at the wiki at all
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20090123 12:59:29< malicor> ah, found it, it's a variable so i put it in [variable] :)
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20090123 16:20:47< Cernunnos> hi again
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20090123 16:57:59< Cernunnos> 1.5 server is down?
20090123 16:58:21< Soliton> nope.
20090123 16:58:56< Cernunnos> well, i can't connect to host...
20090123 16:59:50< Cernunnos> using: server.wesnoth.org:15000
20090123 17:00:45< Cernunnos> while i can to server2.wesnoth.org:15000
20090123 17:01:46< Soliton> go with the program and use 1.5.8.
20090123 17:02:50< Cernunnos> oh, ok, sorry
20090123 17:06:02< Cernunnos> won't work with 1.5.7 that's what you're telling me right?
20090123 17:06:30< Soliton> yes, the 1.5.7 server is shut down.
20090123 17:06:38< Cernunnos> thanks a lot
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20090123 18:18:36< Cernunnos> thespaceinvader: for the shadows on the trees, yes, but that's not the point (unless i missed something)
20090123 18:19:05< thespaceinvader> Cernunnos: yeah
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20090123 18:19:39< Cernunnos> lol, ok, i said nothing then :)
20090123 18:21:22< Soliton> thespaceinvader: btw, tree-shagger has not been removed. it's just not in the campaign description anymore.
20090123 18:21:43< Cernunnos> thespaceinvader, is that a light saber i see btw? :)
20090123 18:21:48< thespaceinvader> has it not?  I thought i took it out from all the scenarios in which it appeared
20090123 18:21:52< thespaceinvader> Cernunnos: yes
20090123 18:22:27< thespaceinvader> Soliton: i definitely did a fairly major edit of the campaign dialogue, and removed a lot fo the instances
20090123 18:22:36< thespaceinvader> it may not be in the stable version though
20090123 18:23:04< Shadow_Master> thespaceinvader: it appears in the dev. version's .po files
20090123 18:23:10< thespaceinvader> Cernunnos: one of these to be precise http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/lightsaber-replicas/index.html
20090123 18:23:11< Soliton> i wouldn't have mentioned it if i hadn't checked...
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20090123 18:23:23< Shadow_Master> in other words, please don't change it now >.<
20090123 18:23:43< thespaceinvader> no, don't worry about it - i must have missed a few, or left them in for variety or something
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20090123 18:23:50< thespaceinvader> or zookeeper didn't apply the full edit
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20090123 18:24:18< Shadow_Master> or ESR
20090123 18:24:34< Shadow_Master> he told me that the resolution was not to use it in the campaign description, just that
20090123 18:24:43< thespaceinvader> possibly - i'm pretty sure I sent it to zookeeper...
20090123 18:24:45< Shadow_Master> not to avoid its usage in other places
20090123 18:25:52< thespaceinvader> ok
20090123 18:26:34< thespaceinvader> i definitely did have some discussion about this with zookeeper, but that was nearly 4 months back - a lot has changed since then I guess
20090123 18:26:49< Shadow_Master> I'm not happy with the decission anyway :/
20090123 18:27:02< Shadow_Master> (from a translator's PoV)
20090123 18:27:26< Cernunnos> thespaceinvader: wow, i never knew your hands were truly lazer proof... ;) (nice work so far with the dwarf, good luck for the rest of them)
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20090123 18:37:01< zookeeper> thespaceinvader, yeah, i think i mentioned at the time that i didn't apply every single one of your edits, there was a handful i left out
20090123 18:37:33< thespaceinvader> zookeeper: you did, yeah - i wasn't sure how many instances of 'tree-shaggers' made it in
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20090123 19:24:40< Cernunnos> zookeeper, i just read what you said there: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=334487#p334487
20090123 19:25:11< Cernunnos> i understand the "no" part, but could you explain what happens?
20090123 19:25:57< Shadow_Master> campaign-specific terrains should not be available for MP maps
20090123 19:26:02< Shadow_Master> I am sure you can figure out why...
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20090123 19:26:34< zookeeper> Cernunnos, the campaign-specific terrains are in the editor so that the campaign maps using them can be edited in the editor
20090123 19:26:36< Cernunnos> you mean the ones under the star icons?
20090123 19:26:53< zookeeper> they don't otherwise work outside that campaign, because the terrains are defined only in those campaigns
20090123 19:27:08< Cernunnos> ok, understood, then if u wanna use them, make the appropriate terrain-grahics change
20090123 19:27:21< zookeeper> so yeah, newbies will use those on maps and think they'll work elsewhere, which is why i wanted to include some kind of a note or warning about that
20090123 19:27:37< zookeeper> but it's a small price to pay for being able to just open the campaign maps directly in the editor, still..
20090123 19:27:50< Cernunnos> Would be better if you don't want the forum to be spammed with that kind of topic maybe...
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20090123 19:28:09< Cernunnos> the notes, i totally understand the editor point
20090123 19:28:11< Shadow_Master> zookeeper: newbies have used those on maps and thought they'd work elsewhere
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20090123 19:29:07< Cernunnos> or a sticky...
20090123 19:31:01< Cernunnos> well, thanks, won't make this newbie mistake then... =)
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20090123 19:38:17< Cernunnos> zookeeper, sorry to go on that again, but why are you not modifying one's editor, instead of "all-users" editor? 
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20090123 19:38:47< Shadow_Master> ¡
20090123 19:38:52< Shadow_Master> s/¡/?/
20090123 19:39:16< Shadow_Master> Cernunnos: what is "one's" editor and what is "all-users'" editor?
20090123 19:39:39< Cernunnos> well, sorry i'm no good at english, following
20090123 19:40:01< Shadow_Master> you don't speak spanish? :p
20090123 19:40:10< Cernunnos> lol, un poquito
20090123 19:40:30< Shadow_Master> ah, nvm then
20090123 19:40:35< Cernunnos> french too if you want, but you're  german  no?
20090123 19:41:38< Cernunnos> on 1.4 i used to modify my own editor groups, to have access to tiles i was making, estaba demasiado facil, no es posible en 1.5 version?
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20090123 19:41:58< Shadow_Master> I am chilean, not german...
20090123 19:42:17< Cernunnos> ok, i'll know that now, sorry
20090123 19:42:22< Cernunnos> lo siento
20090123 19:44:29< Cernunnos> Shdow_Master: "one's" editor is the editor your using while "all users'" editor is the one you get from a package
20090123 19:45:03< Cernunnos> and i can't spell a name correctly......... sorry
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20090123 19:53:48< Cernunnos> zookeeper: sorry, forget it it's just because 1.5 is a dev version so i assume they won't appear in the next stable release, sorry again
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20090123 19:54:24< Cernunnos> Shadow_Master: same
20090123 19:54:53< Shadow_Master> sorry, I still don't understand your editor mess.
20090123 19:56:24< Cernunnos> lol... should i bother you with an explanation?
20090123 19:56:36< Soliton> Cernunnos: they will still be there. it's a trade-off between convenience of being able to edit custom maps and confusion for others.
20090123 19:57:11< Soliton> or similar confusion when you can not edit custom maps.
20090123 19:59:24< Cernunnos> well since all what appears in the editor relies on the terrain.cfg, while the effect on a terrain in game was (at least in 1.4) in a specific file in the appropiate folder, then my point was one could edit his terrain config file
20090123 19:59:44< Cernunnos> *appropriate campaign folder
20090123 19:59:58< Shadow_Master> it is possible to make MP addons with specific terrains, but the usability has not been really tested.
20090123 20:00:01< Shadow_Master> if that is what you mean.
20090123 20:00:35< Soliton> cfgs are arbitrary portions of WML. there is no "all what appears in the editor relies on the terrain.cfg".
20090123 20:01:04< Soliton> i mean it might be the case but any other cfg can change that.
20090123 20:02:29< Cernunnos> i would like to say that i don't want to argue, i just want to understand, you're the developers, i'm not
20090123 20:03:07< Cernunnos> editor_group and editor_image are the tags that make the tile available in the editor?
20090123 20:03:58< Cernunnos> of course all what is between [terrain] and [/terrain] is necessary
20090123 20:04:06< Soliton> probably, the point is they can be included from pretty much anywhere.
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20090123 20:04:38< Soliton> and as it happens some campaigns add such statements.
20090123 20:04:58< Shadow_Master> editor_image is optional
20090123 20:05:25< Shadow_Master> it is used to replace symbol_image on the editor
20090123 20:07:20< Cernunnos> yep, what i don't just get is why current maintainers are making their own editor file (in some sort) it's to say adding the [terrain] they wants
20090123 20:07:34< Cernunnos> *are not making...
20090123 20:08:02< Shadow_Master> terrain.cfg doesn't need to be the one containing [terrain] tags.
20090123 20:08:24< Cernunnos> and that the terrain cfg, or whatever file those [terrain] are in are published for all users
20090123 20:08:26< Shadow_Master> any [terrain] tag at the root of the WML hiearchy serves.
20090123 20:08:50< Cernunnos> *gets published for..
20090123 20:09:43< Cernunnos> instead of being only available for the maintainer himself, and no newbie user who would ask every 30 posts why is map isn't functionning.
20090123 20:09:56< Shadow_Master> newbies don't even know about [terrain]
20090123 20:10:01< Cernunnos> lol
20090123 20:10:38< Cernunnos> that was the point, nevermind, once my english gets better i'll ask again =)
20090123 20:10:42< Shadow_Master> recommendation: I don't like people who use "lol" as a verb, or as a mandatory end-of-sentence marker
20090123 20:11:09< Shadow_Master> it makes me think "ahh.... lower-class internet being"
20090123 20:11:21< Cernunnos> this was not used as one nor the other... (and i don't think it's a verb)
20090123 20:11:41< Shadow_Master> it is an acronym.
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20090123 20:15:55< Soliton> Cernunnos: maintainers are lazy... ;-)
20090123 20:16:09< Cernunnos> lol
20090123 20:16:21< Cernunnos> Shadow_Master: used as the name of a river
20090123 20:16:22< Shadow_Master> developers are lazy too.
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20090123 20:16:54< Soliton> it might be better to not include them though, i don't know...
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20090123 21:44:12< Shadow_Master> wesbot: seen Glorfindel
20090123 21:44:12< wesbot> Shadow_Master: Sorry, I don't know of Glorfindel.
20090123 21:44:32< Shadow_Master> wesbot: seen Glorfindel_
20090123 21:44:32< wesbot> Shadow_Master: The person with the nick Glorfindel_ last spoke 2d 16h ago.  2d 16h ago they left with the message: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"
20090123 21:44:53< Shadow_Master> "oh gosh, scenario 4 unplayable!
20090123 21:45:03< Shadow_Master> how is that supposed to help me debug my campaign . :(
20090123 21:47:11< Shadow_Master> anyway, anyone knows a 1.5 add-on that I should definitively play?
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20090123 22:03:58< Cernunnos> Shadow_Master, Jequ's add-on seems quite good (3p survival, in development)
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20090123 22:04:43< zookeeper> Cernunnos, pretty much as soliton said. it's a trade-off between convenience for anyone who wants to be able to open and edit the maps and confusion for newbies
20090123 22:05:00< Shadow_Master> zookeeper: I remind you of the sound sources:
20090123 22:05:11< Shadow_Master> ah, nvm
20090123 22:05:15< zookeeper> yep
20090123 22:05:19< Cernunnos> and Fiery Menace seems to use some good ideas at the beginning, even if the history speech is definitely too long, there's only 1 scenario and... well... maybe you'll see
20090123 22:05:29< Cernunnos> thanks zookeeper
20090123 22:05:30< Shadow_Master> (writing at the same time not good)
20090123 22:05:52< Cernunnos> Shadow_Master, sorry
20090123 22:06:09< Shadow_Master> sorry what? I was not talking to you.
20090123 22:06:41< Cernunnos> oh i thought you was saying we were all talking at the same time
20090123 22:06:48< Cernunnos> *you were
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20090123 22:09:18< Cernunnos> zookeeper, + i just noticed the tiles he talked about appear in red, which in some way invite the mapmaker not to use them...
20090123 22:11:28< zookeeper> yeah, that's a new one. i wouldn't mind a textual warning in the tooltip either, though.
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20090123 22:57:20< JW1> any artists in here?
20090123 22:57:33< Shadow_Master> Cernunnos is one.
20090123 22:57:41< Shadow_Master> zookeeper is another one. So I'd say, yes.
20090123 22:57:57< JW1> any currently at their computers? :p
20090123 22:58:02< Cernunnos> yup
20090123 22:58:20< JW1> sending a PM
20090123 22:58:33< Cernunnos> ok 
20090123 22:58:48< Shadow_Master> trying to hire Cernunnos ?
20090123 22:58:56< Cernunnos> it seems...
20090123 22:59:04< Shadow_Master> you'd better invest that money in hiring him for mainline art development
20090123 22:59:51< Turuk> Nope, he just needs some advice
20090123 22:59:54< Cernunnos> (i take this as a compliment)
20090123 22:59:57 * Turuk is privy to JW's secret thoughts.
20090123 23:00:49< Shadow_Master> Cernunnos: well, your art is good, but I recommend you to learn more English before you fall into a pit of misunderstandings sooner or later :P
20090123 23:01:10< Shadow_Master> of course, this is just a recommendation. Recommendation != command.
20090123 23:01:44< JW1> Shadow_Master: that is what happens to all artists
20090123 23:01:55< JW1> either they develop for mainline or they leave Wesnoth
20090123 23:01:56< JW1> or both
20090123 23:02:21< JW1> and implying that the EoM is not worthy of good artists is a little offensive
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20090123 23:05:26< Shadow_Master> JW1: I didn't imply that  O o
20090123 23:05:49< JW1> bah, so be it :p
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20090123 23:06:54< Turuk> Well I think that EoM is not worthy of good artists
20090123 23:07:00< Turuk> How's that for an implication? :P
20090123 23:07:07< JW1> it's okay though, because you have no soul
20090123 23:07:16< JW1> your opinions don't count :p
20090123 23:07:16< Turuk> Hey now, we promised we wouldn't talk about that
20090123 23:07:19< Shadow_Master> No UMC is worthy of food artists.
20090123 23:07:27< Shadow_Master> they do not need cooks anyway.
20090123 23:07:39< Shadow_Master> (how is that for an accidental pun? ^^)
20090123 23:07:54< Turuk> haha
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20090123 23:51:20< Cernunnos> Shadow_Master: just read your comment, and must have been sooner than i thought...
20090123 23:51:29< Shadow_Master> what?
20090123 23:51:58< Cernunnos> " well, your art is good, but I recommend you to learn more English before you fall into a pit of misunderstandings sooner or later :P"
20090123 23:52:07< Shadow_Master> ah, k
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20090123 23:52:17< Shadow_Master> don't worry, it has happened me at least a thousand times
20090123 23:52:24< Shadow_Master> * to me
20090123 23:52:31< Cernunnos> but i understood the first part anyway, thanks!! :)
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20090123 23:54:01 * Shadow_Master -> phone
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20090123 23:57:03< Turuk> thespaceinvader, hopefully what I said made sense.  I hate to pick at a piece on it's way to being finished, but I felt you might at least want to know.
20090123 23:58:00< thespaceinvader> not, not to worry - i'm not twerribly satisfied with the face anway, but i wanted to get something posted
20090123 23:58:06< thespaceinvader> the rest is about there, i think
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--- Log closed Sat Jan 24 00:00:48 2009