--- Log opened Tue Feb 03 00:00:15 2009
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20090203 00:08:40< AI0867> anyone know a math-heavy scenario?
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20090203 00:42:10< JonW> hi ya all seeing as 1.6 is almost here don't you it would be nice if someone told GNU that wesnoth is still active?? seeing as they have the lastest version as 1.0.1 
20090203 00:42:32< JonW> look at http://directory.fsf.org/project/wesnoth/ if don't belive me.....
20090203 00:43:12< JonW> I just think it would advertise a bit thats all...
20090203 00:43:57< grzywacz> JonW, why don't you do that, then? :)
20090203 00:44:09< JonW> how ?
20090203 00:44:20< Sirp> JonW: how is a good question.....
20090203 00:44:32< Sirp> I doubt anyone here has any real idea.
20090203 00:44:51< JonW> I figured as much!!! :)
20090203 00:45:01< grzywacz> Please send comments on these web pages to bug-directory@fsf.org, send other questions to info@fsf.org.
20090203 00:45:03< Sirp> I think Wesnoth just appeared there....I don't think anyone here put it up there or talked anyone into having it done.
20090203 00:45:16< grzywacz> (that should have been quoted)
20090203 00:45:21< CIA-70> torangan * r32559 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth/nl.po wesnoth-anl/nl.po wesnoth-httt/nl.po): dutch translation update
20090203 00:46:46< grzywacz> Sirp, do you have a minute?
20090203 00:46:57< Sirp> grzywacz: sure, what's up?
20090203 00:47:00< Soliton>  maybe they stopped tracking when we moved away from savannah.
20090203 00:47:20< grzywacz> Maybe. There's a number of @nongnu.org addresses mentioned there.
20090203 00:47:31< grzywacz> Sirp, how about a patch review? ;-)
20090203 00:49:41< Sirp> grzywacz: of what patch?
20090203 00:50:22< grzywacz> Sirp, performance fix for gamelist_updated() in multiplayer ui
20090203 00:50:33< grzywacz> Sirp, http://kolos.math.uni.lodz.pl/~grzywacz/soliton.patch
20090203 00:51:31< grzywacz> Sirp, basically utils::split was called for each update and some players have over 1.5k friends
20090203 00:51:33< Sirp> grzywacz: I don't really know anything about this friends and ignores code.
20090203 00:51:42< Sirp> ahhh
20090203 00:52:04< Sirp> so you're storing them as members?
20090203 00:52:19< grzywacz> Sirp, yes. And updating when the list of ignores changes.
20090203 00:52:44< grzywacz> Sirp, alternatively maybe it would be 10 times simpler to just keep the vector in preferences, instead of a string :P
20090203 00:54:05< Sirp> grzywacz: looks reasonable. Only suggestion is to consider either making the vectors sorted, and using binary search, or using a set<string> instead of vector<string>
20090203 00:55:14< grzywacz> Sirp, oh yeah, set would be the most straightforward solution...
20090203 00:56:28< Soliton> grzywacz: there are other places where the friends and ignore list is requested so just giving out a vector/set there might already help a lot.
20090203 00:57:15< grzywacz> Soliton, maybe, but profile showed split() being the worst offender. Having to wait 0.1s when you manipulate them manually is not much of a problem
20090203 00:58:38< grzywacz> Soliton, I'll give that approach a try and see how it turns out :P
20090203 00:59:37< Soliton> grzywacz: my point is there are other places that do preferences::get("friends") and then split.
20090203 00:59:54< grzywacz> Soliton, I know. That may be the way to go.
20090203 01:00:02< Soliton> k
20090203 01:00:05< grzywacz> I just got that idea after I started coding that patch. ;)
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20090203 01:03:04< AI0867> er, who here can recover pbl passphrases?
20090203 01:03:28 * Soliton 
20090203 01:04:30< AI0867> Soliton: can you recover the Era of Strife's one for me on the trunk add-on server?
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20090203 01:13:56< grzywacz> Sirp, utils::join() is asking to convert it to a template...
20090203 01:16:50< Sirp> grzywacz: well do so then. :)
20090203 01:18:01< grzywacz> Sirp, can I somehow specify that iterators of the type used for it return std::strings?
20090203 01:18:09< grzywacz> Or is it enough to rely on compiler errors? ;)
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20090203 01:21:20< Sirp> grzywacz: rely on compiler errors.
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20090203 01:21:33< Sirp> http://dave.wesnoth.org <--- blog post of mine on planned WML refactoring
20090203 01:24:16 * grzywacz confused
20090203 01:28:06< Sirp> grzywacz: ?
20090203 01:35:10< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32560 /trunk/ (data/scenario-test.cfg src/game_events.cpp): 
20090203 01:35:10< CIA-70> Changed [set_variable] to work with floats properly. (bug #12546)
20090203 01:35:10< CIA-70> Specification at http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=336743#p336743
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20090203 01:38:21< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32561 /trunk/changelog: Document r32560 in the changelog.
20090203 01:40:07< Soliton> in case that was intentional.. there is no need to have separate changelog commits.
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20090203 01:49:00< AI0867> I had already written the commit and everything when I remembered that someone might want to know about it
20090203 01:51:30< CIA-70> grzywacz * r32562 /trunk/changelog: Mentioned the fix for bug #12923 in the changelog.
20090203 01:56:08< Soliton> AI0867: i updated the addons for units.w.o now.
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20090203 01:58:01< Sapient> hello Sirp
20090203 02:05:10< Sapient> I read your blog post and liked your ideas for refactoring the config class
20090203 02:07:06< Sapient> although, I think eliminating the meta data is not a total solution
20090203 02:07:38< grzywacz> Anyone? http://rafb.net/p/0rsO6R25.html 
20090203 02:08:33< Sapient> Sirp: there still remains the question of why scenarios 2-10 of a campaign should be in memory while you are playing senario 1, as well as every unit_type you may encounter before encountering it
20090203 02:09:11< Soliton> isn't the latter lazy loaded now?
20090203 02:09:18< Sapient> not to mention, even the global information of game_config is mostly used to initialize structures once then never consulted again
20090203 02:09:21< grzywacz> Soliton, :(
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20090203 02:10:49< Sapient> Soliton: is it true that the configs are not in memory until the unit_type is loaded? I haven't checked the code that thoroughly
20090203 02:11:22< Soliton> no idea.
20090203 02:12:07< Soliton> grzywacz: whose adding to what?
20090203 02:12:25< Sapient> I suspect that they are loaded into memory even if they are not parsed
20090203 02:12:35< Sapient> err.. processed
20090203 02:13:20< grzywacz> Sapient, to the best of my knowledge it should be std::set<std::string>::const_iterator + 1
20090203 02:13:28< grzywacz> Sapient, no clue where did that t_string come from O_o;
20090203 02:13:51< Sapient> I was talking to Sirp
20090203 02:13:57< grzywacz> s/Sapient/Soliton/
20090203 02:14:07< Soliton> grzywacz: is still confused.
20090203 02:14:17< Soliton> s/://
20090203 02:14:41< grzywacz> Soliton, rephrase your question
20090203 02:15:13< Soliton> wha?
20090203 02:15:23< Soliton> :-P
20090203 02:15:45< grzywacz> …
20090203 02:15:54< Sapient> grzywacz: what is the code that triggers that error?
20090203 02:16:08< Sapient> and why are there two of you grzybacz and grzywacz?
20090203 02:16:35< grzywacz> Sapient, grzybacz is my session I sometimes connect to from work
20090203 02:16:37< Soliton> grzywacz and his ebil twin.
20090203 02:16:37< AI0867> Soliton: can you add strife to trunk units.w.o too?
20090203 02:17:01< Soliton> AI0867: already done.
20090203 02:17:10< grzywacz> Sapient, http://rafb.net/p/0M6LyZ86.html
20090203 02:17:19< grzywacz> Line 7 in the pasted fragment.
20090203 02:18:19< AI0867> really? I don't see it there?
20090203 02:18:37< Soliton> patience.
20090203 02:18:45< AI0867> still regenerating?
20090203 02:19:20< Soliton> grzywacz: so how does menu_events.cpp:2014 look?
20090203 02:20:28< Sapient> that loop is inefficient anyways
20090203 02:20:47< Sapient> you are doubling the amount of comparisons and additions which are strictly necessary
20090203 02:21:15< grzywacz> Soliton, http://rafb.net/p/GJ9Puz65.html
20090203 02:21:19< grzywacz> line 5
20090203 02:25:05< Sapient> did you remember to #include <sstream> ?
20090203 02:27:57< Sapient> http://codepad.org/soaCIa7o
20090203 02:28:14< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32563 /trunk/po/wesnoth-units/nl.po: Fix a translation error.
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20090203 02:28:58< grzywacz> Sapient, heh, good one.
20090203 02:29:46< grzywacz> Sapient, why would it behave like that without sstream?
20090203 02:30:00< Sapient> because you can never trust template error messages
20090203 02:30:09< grzywacz> Fair enough.
20090203 02:30:12< grzywacz> Thanks :)
20090203 02:30:30< Sapient> and fix your inefficient loop :p
20090203 02:30:47< grzywacz> Sapient, that's Sirp's :P
20090203 02:31:20< Sapient> ah, but svn blame will say grzywacz if you touch it last ;)
20090203 02:31:40< grzywacz> Sapient, like I care ;)
20090203 02:32:54< grzywacz> Sapient, lol, broken again...
20090203 02:33:15< grzywacz> I thought the compiler didn't choke, but it was recompiling some other files first ;)
20090203 02:33:16< grzywacz> Same error.
20090203 02:33:29< Sapient> here, I fixed it for you: http://codepad.org/GzDia8wN
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20090203 02:36:53< Sapient> now it calls end() 1 time instead of n times, and performs n additions instead of 2n additions, and n+1 comparisons instead of 2n-1 comparisons
20090203 02:37:22< Sapient> or something like that
20090203 02:38:57< Sapient> still, nobody wants to hire me as a programmer. amazing huh?
20090203 02:41:33< grzywacz> Premature optimization. ;)
20090203 02:43:41< Sapient> it's never too premature for beautification. ;)
20090203 02:44:17< grzywacz> I prefer the idiomatic approach.
20090203 02:44:37< Sapient> wow, I am gonna pass out if you commit that hideous version
20090203 02:45:44 * AI0867 readies a matress
20090203 02:46:04 * Sapient s/idiomatic/idiotic
20090203 02:46:13< Sapient> fixed
20090203 02:51:06< grzywacz> Probably that's why they don't want to hire you. ;)
20090203 02:53:21< Sapient> touch`e
20090203 02:55:19< grzywacz> http://rafb.net/p/2BLMCf34.html
20090203 02:59:42< grzywacz> 0.01% speedup on 10000000 runs with short vectors. And it actually performed worse on longer (1000+ element) ones
20090203 03:00:14< grzywacz> Not to mentioned butchered readability.
20090203 03:00:26< Sapient> no kidding? weird
20090203 03:00:46< Sapient> templates are barely readable anyways
20090203 03:02:04< grzywacz> Ok, it was slightly faster on the 2nd run. Maybe my system interfered.
20090203 03:02:45< Sapient> yeah, I was wondering if you compiled with quantum computing optimizations or something
20090203 03:04:10< grzywacz> 4% faster on 100000 runs with 1000-element vectors
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20090203 03:05:17< Sapient> my point of view is, if you are writing something which is essentially a util/library call, which may come to be relied upon in many places such as tight loops, and furthermore in a template and part of the header file, then you should at least attempt to make it efficient
20090203 03:05:43< Sapient> regardless of where it may currently be used
20090203 03:06:49< grzywacz> The answer is: depends.
20090203 03:07:27< Sirp_> well I think it's important to design the interface so that it *can* be efficient.
20090203 03:07:34< Sirp_> making it efficient yourself is less important.
20090203 03:08:30< Sapient> well, creating a fundamentally inefficient design seems like a worse crime and not really what we were discussion
20090203 03:08:37< Sapient> but I agree
20090203 03:09:55< Sapient> Sirp: which do you prefer? http://codepad.org/soaCIa7o OR http://codepad.org/GzDia8wN 
20090203 03:13:18< Sapient> BTW, I posted some comments about your blog posting earlier here in the irclog
20090203 03:14:11< Sirp_> Sapient: the first one. The second one is much more confusing and I doubt it'd be any more efficient.
20090203 03:16:31< Sapient> seriously? keep in mind this is for a string util, not some random code in a .cpp
20090203 03:17:40< Sirp_> Sapient: if it was going to be more efficient I might agree, but I doubt it'll be any more efficient.
20090203 03:18:16< Sapient> you reckon that the extra additions, comparisons, and calls to end() would all be optimized away?
20090203 03:18:35< Sapient> or just that they are insignificant in comparison to the stringstream operations?
20090203 03:18:47< Sirp_> the calls to end() will probably be optimized away by the compiler. The other differences are probably trivial.
20090203 03:19:07< Sirp_> on typical implementations of STL containers, end() is just a return of a member. That's almost certainly going to be optimized away.
20090203 03:20:08< Sirp_> I have never cached the result of end(), and have never seen any reason to think it has ever hurt any of my code as far as performance goes.
20090203 03:20:52< Sirp_> maybe it does hurt in some cases (by making the compiler read from L1 cache rather than a register, most probably).....but I doubt it makes much difference.
20090203 03:21:29< Sirp_> the second version does have a significant advantage in that it allows operation on forward iterators, while the first version requires random access iterators.
20090203 03:26:51< Sapient> well anyways, did you see the comments I wrote for your blog post?
20090203 03:27:14< Sapient> I liked your ideas for refactoring the config class
20090203 03:27:55< Sapient> but I suspect that a lot of config data is mostly used to initialize structures once then never consulted again
20090203 03:28:27< Sapient> as well as config data while is loaded from files long before it is needed, if ever (scenarios, units, etc)
20090203 03:30:44< Sirp_> just reading now....
20090203 03:30:58< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32564 /trunk/po/wesnoth-httt/nl.po: Fix broken translation.
20090203 03:31:09< Sirp_> Sapient: and I ran a test on the two versions of the code......unfortunately my system doesn't seem to run the code reliably enough to tell which is faster
20090203 03:31:14< Sirp_> (i.e. it's within the margin of error)
20090203 03:31:45< Sirp_> the big thing about join though is its interface isn't that efficient. If you want a more efficient version of join(), you can probably get one about 10x faster than that one if you try hard enough.
20090203 03:32:18< Sapient> ultra-join
20090203 03:32:56< Sapient> right, but it would probably take 10x as many lines of code, right? :0
20090203 03:33:05< Sirp_> Sapient: and basically I agree with your concerns about not loading all scenarios etc, but they are disjoint issues.
20090203 03:33:11< Sirp_> I prefer to tackle one issue at a time. :)
20090203 03:35:53< Sirp_> (though they are joint in that if one is solved it makes the others less relevant)
20090203 03:36:14< Sirp_> Sapient: also I think that making scenarios 2-10 not get loaded when you are playing scenario 1 is much harder....
20090203 03:38:32< Sapient> as it stands now a .cfg file might contain anything, not just [scenario] or [unit]
20090203 03:39:00< Sapient> it would require adding a few (reasonable, IMO) assumptions
20090203 03:41:17 * Sirp_ nods
20090203 03:41:54< Sirp_> basically this idea of making everything one huge WML document is terrible in retrospect.
20090203 03:42:05< Sirp_> every unit, every scenario, etc should be a seperate document.
20090203 03:46:45< Sapient> unit animations in particular have become quite elaborate compared with older wesnoth versions
20090203 03:47:16< Sapient> terrain transitions also
20090203 03:48:00< Sapient> probably, terrain transition rules could be rewritten and expressed more concisely in LUA
20090203 03:48:13< Sapient> might be a good exercise for silene
20090203 03:49:34< Sirp_> still though, in terms of memory usage, all of our WML is still 'only' 7.5MB
20090203 03:50:11< Sapient> wow
20090203 03:50:19< Sirp_> don't know how much bigger it grows after expansion of macros
20090203 03:50:25< Sapient> oh, lol
20090203 03:50:44< Sirp_> could probably tell without too much trouble.
20090203 03:50:48< Sapient> macros are used *extensively* for unit animations and terrain transitions
20090203 03:51:26< Sirp_> but then, a good efficient format for loading them should be able to compress it below expanded size by sharing strings
20090203 03:52:11< Sapient> possibly
20090203 03:54:05< Sapient> yes, I think that would save quite a lot
20090203 03:55:31< Sapient> units have become heavyweight objects and that would turn them into more lightweights
20090203 03:56:53< Sapient> I suggested a flyweight pattern for units a long time ago but none of us was really interested in it
20090203 03:57:36< Sapient> too much work I guess
20090203 04:05:24< Sapient> cya later, have fun.
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20090203 05:25:32< [Relic]> Hello :)
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20090203 07:49:05< silene> Sirp: I read your blog entry, the non-const operator[] is not an issue, just make it return a proxy class, that way you don't change the interface
20090203 07:56:03< silene> as a side note, using a huge buffer containing all the strings is not necessarily needed; first of all, you don't need to store strings that are shorter than a pointer; on a 64bit system, almost all the strings are 7 chars or less; and note that the ones that are laonger are more than often translatable text, hence rather unique
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20090203 08:40:42< Sirp_> silene1: using a proxy class is really annoying and ugly
20090203 08:40:48< Sirp_> and has all kinds of weird issues that can crop up
20090203 08:40:54< Sirp_> cf vector<bool> and its proxy
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20090203 08:50:38< grzywacz> morning
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20090203 11:10:56< CIA-70> zookeeper * r32565 /trunk/data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/ (6 files): Upped the player starting gold a bit on the hardest difficulty, added a few recruitment_patterns and fixed some village bandit messages from appearing when they shouldn't.
20090203 11:13:02< CIA-70> zookeeper * r32566 /trunk/data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/05.Northern_Outpost.cfg: Fixed Owaec missing his portrait.
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20090203 14:35:46< Ivanovic_ontour> wesbot: seen CIB
20090203 14:35:46< wesbot> Ivanovic_ontour: Person, who 3d 16h ago used nick cib, 3d 13h ago as cib_ they left with the message: Remote closed the connection
20090203 14:35:48< Ivanovic_ontour> wesbot: seen CIB0
20090203 14:35:49< wesbot> Ivanovic_ontour: The person with the nick cib0 last spoke 2d 18h ago.  2d 14h ago they left with the message: Remote closed the connection
20090203 14:36:00< Ivanovic_ontour> wesbot: seen CIB1
20090203 14:36:01< wesbot> Ivanovic_ontour: The person with the nick cib1 last spoke 8d 22h ago.  8d 16h ago they left with the message: Remote closed the connection
20090203 14:36:07< Ivanovic_ontour> wesbot: seen CIB_
20090203 14:36:07< wesbot> Ivanovic_ontour: The person with the nick cib_ 3d 13h ago they left with the message: Remote closed the connection
20090203 14:37:28< Ivanovic_ontour> AI0867: don't forget to talk to mordante when he joins this evening or to plan getting to brussels yourself
20090203 14:37:52< Ivanovic_ontour> if you plan to drive by var yourself: consider that you won't fand a place to park close to the hotel
20090203 14:39:42< Ivanovic_ontour> ilor_: i just checked if 2go4.be still has rooms for the night from sunday to monday, and there are some beds still free
20090203 14:39:52< Ivanovic_ontour> so it should not be a problem to get you an extension nicht
20090203 14:40:55< AI0867> Ivanovic_ontour: I don't have a car, if i come alone it'll be by train
20090203 14:41:21< Ivanovic_ontour> AI0867: okay
20090203 14:41:41< Ivanovic_ontour> i am rather sure that mordante will join in the evening, so then you should be able to talk to him
20090203 14:41:44< AI0867> k
20090203 14:42:00< Ivanovic_ontour> and i am confident that he will be reading the logs and see me highlighting him ~500 times...
20090203 14:42:01< Ivanovic_ontour> ;)
20090203 14:57:15< ESR_> Ivanovic: Oh, good, you're here.  There's a translation process issue we need to discuss.
20090203 14:59:31< ESR_> I now have 8 instances of bad translation key strings that I will fix in mainline and .po/.pot files.  These don't require any changes in translated text, but they should be applied to .po files as you get thenm back in.  How can we fit this into your work flow?
20090203 15:01:12< ESR_> To see the list, look at http://rafb.net/p/Mpdlos78.html
20090203 15:01:34< ESR_> First column is the bad string, second is the fix, third is the domain
20090203 15:03:24< Ivanovic_ontour> ESR_: the best way is: send a mail to the translators, that you do change the po files they use by hand and that they should apply the changes by hand, too
20090203 15:03:30< Ivanovic_ontour> sending then a diff of the files
20090203 15:03:57< Ivanovic_ontour> since in my process there is *NO* way of dealing with changes we put onto strings which get "overwritten" by incoming files
20090203 15:04:08< ESR_> You have a translations mailing list, then?
20090203 15:04:43< Ivanovic_ontour> jupp
20090203 15:04:50< Ivanovic_ontour> wesnoth-i18n AT gna.org
20090203 15:05:07< Ivanovic_ontour> since you are now the maintainer of the en_GB translation, you should maybe subscribe, too
20090203 15:05:08< Ivanovic_ontour> ;)
20090203 15:05:44< ESR_> OK.  What I'll do, then, is compose an email describing the needed changes, and ship it when I have finished en_GB.
20090203 15:05:48< Ivanovic_ontour> https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-i18n/
20090203 15:06:16< Ivanovic_ontour> it would already be a good start to just have a list of stringchanges which are no change in the meaning
20090203 15:06:25< Ivanovic_ontour> then translator can just quickly unfuzzy
20090203 15:06:31< Ivanovic_ontour> (but sort the list by textdomain)
20090203 15:08:56< Ivanovic_ontour> and please update http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesnothTranslations (list yourself as maintainer), http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/EnglishGBTranslation (do as you think fits) and add yourself in the credits for the translation
20090203 15:09:34< ESR_> That's the list I have now.  Well...one could be taken as a meaning change.  In the manual, where it says "Weapons with a cutting edge, used to chop pieces of meat from
20090203 15:09:36< ESR_>    a foe.".  In English, "meat" is a very bad word to use here, because it implies that you intend to eat what you cut off.  It would be much better to use the word "flesh" here.
20090203 15:10:28< Ivanovic_ontour> i don't think that any translators will understand it the "wrong" way
20090203 15:10:29< Ivanovic_ontour> ;)
20090203 15:10:46< ESR_> I don't really think so either.
20090203 15:12:27< Ivanovic_ontour> hmm, should i add myself in the en_GB translators list after r32273 ?
20090203 15:12:43< Ivanovic_ontour> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?rev=32273&view=rev
20090203 15:13:38< Ivanovic_ontour> since a considerable amount of strings was affected (>50, IIRC)...
20090203 15:13:39< Ivanovic_ontour> ^^
20090203 15:14:27< ESR_> Up to you.
20090203 15:15:42< ESR_> I'm working on the NR domain now.  In an hour or so I'll have a bug commit with NR and the pending bunch of string fixes in it.  I'll list them in the change comment,
20090203 15:17:05< Ivanovic_ontour> change commit is good, too
20090203 15:17:32< Ivanovic_ontour> but please do not forget to write a mail to the translation teams pointing those out, too, just to be sure that they do not miss it
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20090203 15:25:29< Ivanovic_ontour> off again, lectur eis almost over, cu
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20090203 15:35:04< AI0867> for some reason, wmllint doesn't complain about the spelling 'equiped'
20090203 15:38:39< AI0867> nor does it complain about 'knowlage'
20090203 15:38:47< AI0867> this is strange...
20090203 15:44:17< ESR_> AI0867: That is odd.
20090203 15:48:03-!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-188-113.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20090203 15:54:56< AI0867> especially since it *does* complain about the spelling of 'dwarvish' (I'm running it incorrectly, not including the core global speling declarations)
20090203 16:32:38< AI0867> how recently has the wesnoth-git tarball been updated? (and what is its exact path?)
20090203 16:36:11< CIA-70> esr * r32567 /trunk/ (145 files in 6 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20090203 16:36:11< CIA-70> NR eng_GB translation and some meaning-preserving string fixes.
20090203 16:36:11< CIA-70> Here is the cumulative list:
20090203 16:36:11< CIA-70> "get of her high horse", "get off her high horse", "wesnoth-nr",
20090203 16:36:11< CIA-70> "Edition", "Editing", "wesnoth"
20090203 16:36:12< CIA-70> "the godly city of Tath", "the goodly city of Tath", "wesnoth-did"
20090203 16:36:16< CIA-70> "2 000 gold", "2,000 gold", "wesnoth-nr"
20090203 16:53:03< stikonas> AI0867 ~r29000 http://wesnoth.org/files/hidden/wesnoth-git.tar.bz2
20090203 16:53:51< stikonas> though bzip2'ing git repository probably doesn't save any space
20090203 16:56:36< Ivanovic> hi
20090203 17:05:24< Ivanovic> and it looks like we will be getting the first indian translation soon
20090203 17:05:43< Ivanovic> today someone mailed me asking if we are fine with him working on a marathi translation
20090203 17:28:50-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@91.108.168.180] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090203 17:29:14< Ivanovic> Dragonking: don't forget your photo...
20090203 17:29:23< Dragonking> Ivanovic: I know I know
20090203 17:29:25< Dragonking> No worries
20090203 17:29:27< Dragonking> :)
20090203 17:29:28< Ivanovic> Dragonking: that is ilor_ posted a link to a photo by now
20090203 17:29:29< Ivanovic> ;)
20090203 17:29:34< Dragonking> I have just damn busy weeks lately
20090203 17:29:42< Ivanovic> Dragonking: sounds familiar to me...
20090203 17:30:02< Dragonking> Hopefully it will end soon...
20090203 17:30:08< Dragonking> Just one last test left :)
20090203 17:30:23< Ivanovic> lucky one
20090203 17:30:31< Ivanovic> my lectures go till thursday (incl)
20090203 17:30:45< Dragonking> My lectures finished week ago
20090203 17:30:46< Ivanovic> and i got some "seminar" next week (at least all of monday, tuesday and friday)
20090203 17:30:58< Dragonking> Since then I have tests test tests, exams exams exams....
20090203 17:31:13< Ivanovic> sounds normal to me...
20090203 17:31:14< Ivanovic> ;)
20090203 17:31:20< Dragonking> Yup, it is! :)
20090203 17:31:21-!- fabi [n=fabi@f051072249.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090203 17:31:27< Dragonking> But it's a chance to complain too!
20090203 17:31:27< Dragonking> ;p
20090203 17:31:42< Ivanovic> okay, i "only" got 4 (aural) exams left before i write my thesis
20090203 17:31:51< Ivanovic> but of those 4, 2 are *really* hell
20090203 17:32:21< zookeeper> Text doesn't start on canvas.
20090203 17:32:21< zookeeper> Condition 'static_cast<int>(x) < canvas->w && static_cast<int>(y) < canvas->h' failed at src/gui/widgets/canvas.cpp:863 in function 'draw'.
20090203 17:32:26< Ivanovic> one of them is "efficent algorythms / complexity theory"
20090203 17:32:28< Dragonking> ONly problem is that I had a flue 2 weeks ago... and I missed some test and I had to take these along with other ones... so I had less time than usual :/
20090203 17:32:31< zookeeper> (on some of BoL's char generation menus)
20090203 17:32:37< Ivanovic> the other is "theoretical physics for minors"
20090203 17:32:46< Ivanovic> both are real theory hell...
20090203 17:32:54< Dragonking> I hate physics :)
20090203 17:33:03< Dragonking> And I dislike theory.. sort of
20090203 17:33:11< Ivanovic> Dragonking: it is my minor and in general rather nice
20090203 17:33:16< Dragonking> I prefer practical tests like write something that does X etc
20090203 17:33:22< Ivanovic> just those "100% theory lectures" are *ugh*
20090203 17:33:28-!- anakayub [n=anakayub@148.191.50.60.cbj04-home.tm.net.my] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090203 17:33:34< Dragonking> I can believe :)
20090203 17:33:52< Ivanovic> (that is why those two exams are outstanding for >1 year by now...)
20090203 17:34:09< Ivanovic> okay, off for some hours to do some sports
20090203 17:34:10< Ivanovic> cu
20090203 17:34:12< Dragonking> What's left for me is "multithreaded programming" but we use Ada and i have no clue how to program in it ;p
20090203 17:34:20< Dragonking> Have fun, bye
20090203 17:34:59< Ivanovic> the "nice" exams i got left are "operating system technics" (basically about aspect oriented programming and techinics behind it)
20090203 17:35:06< Ivanovic> as well as "computer vision"
20090203 17:35:11< Ivanovic> http://ls12-www.cs.tu-dortmund.de/patrec/teaching/WS08/computervision/index.html
20090203 17:35:54< Ivanovic> in the OS centric lecture we work on programming some "weather station" thingie
20090203 17:36:02< Ivanovic> those lovely little bt nodes
20090203 17:36:39< Dragonking> Computer vision looks interesting
20090203 17:36:42< Ivanovic> okay, off now, cu
20090203 17:36:45< Dragonking> bye
20090203 17:36:47< Ivanovic> Dragonking: it is okay
20090203 17:44:28< AI0867> stikonas: the git tarball was at r32331
20090203 17:46:39< stikonas> so it has just been updated, probably yesterday.
20090203 17:48:36< AI0867> I'm at the HEAD already =)
20090203 17:55:45< Soliton> stikonas: re bzip2'ing: 1.2GB vs 850MB
20090203 18:01:24< CIA-70> esr * r32568 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth-sof/en_GB.po wesnoth-sotbe/en_GB.po): More en_GB updates.
20090203 18:02:05< ESR_> Ivanovic: I'll be gone for about 90 minutes.  Could you run a pop update while I'm gone?
20090203 18:02:26< ESR_> s/pop/po/
20090203 18:05:17< stikonas> ESR_: you may also want to add yourself to en_GB translators credits.
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20090203 19:26:43< Tigge> So.. about these abilities: ambush, backstab, charge, concealment, cures, drains, feeding, heals, illuminates, leadership, marksman, nightstalk, plauge, poison, regenerate, slows, skirmisher, submerge, steadfast, stones, swarm, teleport - I notice some are of the form slows (do slow to other) while some are in the form poison (just poison.. not poisons as in do to other). Is there a reasoning for this?
20090203 19:27:04< Tigge> I believe those are all the abilities, heh
20090203 19:28:56< Sirp> Tigge: ummm....huh? What do you mean?
20090203 19:30:08< Tigge> Perhaps this is just me being bad at english
20090203 19:30:48< noy> there is only slow
20090203 19:30:53< noy> and there is only poison
20090203 19:31:02< Tigge> but.. Poison is just the base form.. poisonus = "full of poison.. perhaps in the blood" and poisons = "poisons other"
20090203 19:31:34< Tigge> *
20090203 19:31:38< Tigge> poisonous
20090203 19:32:06< Tigge> so to me.. slow and poison dot fit the general *s-scheme
20090203 19:32:27< Tigge> the 'inflict on others' theme
20090203 19:32:40< noy> ...
20090203 19:32:55< Tigge> So.. I guess I'm way off? =)
20090203 19:33:01< Sirp> ... is my comment too
20090203 19:33:37-!- Mordante [n=chatzill@roadie.xs4all.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090203 19:33:49< Mordante> hi
20090203 19:34:02< Tigge> Um ah, so a unit with slow and poison does not inflict these on other but.. somehow got it themself..
20090203 19:34:07< noy> I think you're just splitting hairs
20090203 19:34:14< Tigge> I guess..
20090203 19:37:01< noy> and whats the point of all of this?
20090203 19:37:25< noy> even if there was an alleged inconsistency, do you really think we'd remove slow and poison?
20090203 19:37:47< Soliton> presumably he wants them renamed if anytihng.
20090203 19:37:57< Tigge> mmm, yes.. no removing them
20090203 19:38:14< noy> Soliton: maybe he can speak for himself...
20090203 19:38:24< Soliton> and so he did.
20090203 19:38:44< Soliton> btw, you're mixing weapon specials with abilities.
20090203 19:38:53< Tigge> Oh hm, I am?
20090203 19:38:58< noy> heh, true enough
20090203 19:39:20< Tigge> I'm trying to find a list of all these different abilities, traits, etc to have as a reference
20090203 19:39:32< Soliton> ambush is an ability of the unit. marksman is a weapon special of an attack.
20090203 19:39:48< Tigge> Translation stuff.. ensure consitency across the translation
20090203 19:39:57< Tigge> Mm, I see
20090203 19:40:44< Soliton> data/core/macros/abilities.cfg
20090203 19:40:52< noy> so is Skirmisher. 
20090203 19:40:58< noy> (an ability)
20090203 19:41:54-!- silene [n=plouf@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-96-127.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090203 19:41:58< Tigge> Mm, this skrimisher is kind of har to translate.. there is some word for it but.. closly related to guns
20090203 19:42:00< silene> hi
20090203 19:42:13< Tigge> right now stigfinnare (path finder) is used instead
20090203 19:42:19< Soliton> i suppose drains, slows and stones could be called drain, slow and stone.
20090203 19:42:35< Soliton> though stone sounds a bit odd.
20090203 19:43:16< Turuk_> Pathfinder and skirmisher share the same concept.  Skirmishers were light troops who would engage the enemy units at a distance, and were often used to scout out the advance to the battle line for the main army.  A pathfinder (even in current military terminology) often shares the same role.
20090203 19:43:18< Sirp> I think having the s on the end makes sense.
20090203 19:43:19< Sirp> hi silene 
20090203 19:45:16< silene> Sirp: the thing broken about std::vector<bool> is not the proxy (actually it works quite well and they will just give a new name to the class), what was broken is that the invariants of vector<bool> were different from the invariants of all the other vector<T>: so generic could not be used with T=bool, which was really dumb
20090203 19:46:25< Tigge> Turuk_: Ah.. so the swedish word is skärmytslare (can see the similiarities there). But.. I'm not sure exactly what word is better. 
20090203 19:46:51< Tigge> what kind of image should one see when seeing the skirmisher ability on a unit?
20090203 19:47:11< Turuk_> I would say either or is interchangeable.  Skirmisher can be found in the Saurian line.
20090203 19:47:20< Tigge> Small lightly armed troop in front or more the lone wolf tracking ahead?
20090203 19:47:36< Turuk_> Eh, a bit of both
20090203 19:47:50< Turuk_> Fencers have it because they are the lightly armed troops
20090203 19:47:54< Sirp> silene: I think the proxy works okay as long as you are not expecting it to behave exactly like a bool&. :-)
20090203 19:48:10< Turuk_> The rogues/assassins get it because of the nature of their work
20090203 19:48:30< Turuk_> The Saurian Skirmisher/Ambusher/Flanker has it more of the lightly armed troop as well
20090203 19:48:34< Sirp> silene: we could probably solve this okay with a proxy (though I'm sure there would still be at least some call sites which would need changing) however I think it'd be better for us to do a little more work and just change the client code.
20090203 19:49:15< Tigge> Mm... I think stigfinnare fits fits more into the theme of the game.. skärmytsling (skirmish) is nowdays most used for political/media battles
20090203 19:49:18< Sirp> and I agree that vector<bool> is quite a nice class -- it just shouldn't be called vector<bool>
20090203 19:50:05< Turuk_> That will have to be your judgement call Tigge, as you are more aware of what fits properly in your language
20090203 19:50:17< Tigge> Thank you :). Well enough of that.. What about this new costal reef thing?
20090203 19:50:24< silene> Sirp: speaking about config, do you know (i did not check who did it) what the cache thing does in vconfig? by looking at the code, i have no clue what it does (if it does anything), this is a pattern that does not make much sense to me
20090203 19:50:25< Turuk_> Best I can do is convey to you the intention it was used towards in English
20090203 19:50:41< Sirp> silene: I don't know. I think Sapient implemented it, so you can ask him.
20090203 19:50:58< Sirp> I haven't looked at/understood this vconfig thing much at all.
20090203 19:51:15< Tigge> Turuk_: yeah, and its very helpful. Often it is kind of hard as a non english speaker to get the deeper/proper use of the word.
20090203 19:51:32< silene> Sirp: that's because vconfig is a proxy :-)
20090203 19:52:36< Sirp> :)
20090203 19:53:02< Sirp> that much I did actually know. :) Just not the details of how it works.
20090203 19:53:24< silene> more seriously, it actually is a proxy, it transparently do variable substitution on config objects; it leads me to one of the dumbest bug i have seen while implementing the lua code
20090203 19:53:52< silene> i didn't expect it to actually change the lua scripts without me noticing it
20090203 19:54:24< silene> i was wondering if i was becoming crazy
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20090203 19:56:13< silene> anyway, there is a thing called "cache" in it, but the results of variable substitution are not stored into it, so i'm not sure what it be caching
20090203 19:58:29< Sirp> silene: I am now looking at this code, and find it rather confusing too
20090203 19:59:58 * Sirp is concerned that it seems to have its own reference counting and memory management scheme in variable.cpp
20090203 20:00:22< loonycyborg> Sapient said that it's necessary.
20090203 20:00:52< Sirp> some of us would argue that some high level documentation on this file is necessary. ;)
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20090203 20:16:47< Mordante> Ivanovic the logs are broken I miss about 490 pings :-P
20090203 20:17:07< Mordante> I'm off on Friday so I probably leave early
20090203 20:17:31< Mordante> the 2go4 website said there would be public parking places nearby...
20090203 20:37:22< Mordante> you're doing a nice job with the translation ESR_ :-)
20090203 20:37:49< ESR_> Mordante: Um, no offense, but how can *you* tell?
20090203 20:38:15< Mordante> well I mean you make a lot of progress
20090203 20:38:23< Mordante> at least in the statistics
20090203 20:39:00< ESR_> Ah.
20090203 20:39:11< AI0867> Mordante: about friday, could you make a stop in Delft?
20090203 20:39:28< Mordante> AI0867 at what time?
20090203 20:39:45< AI0867> I've got all afternoon
20090203 20:39:48< Sirp> we are about to break through 3 million downloads on sf.net
20090203 20:40:13< Ivanovic> re
20090203 20:40:22< ESR_> Well, it's about the easiest translation to do quickly.  All I'm doing is converting to Britisgh spelling, though I might make a scond pass to try to substiture British idioms for American ones.
20090203 20:40:32< Ivanovic> Mordante: i don't trust them since i know the center of brussels...
20090203 20:40:39< Ivanovic> at least they will charge a fee for parking
20090203 20:43:26< Mordante> true maybe parking at the fosdem might be wise
20090203 20:43:44< Ivanovic> i will park there since it will most likely work out nicely this way
20090203 20:44:18< Mordante> nice Sirp :-)
20090203 20:44:45< Ivanovic> if they had not screwed their stats we would long have broken 3millions...
20090203 20:44:46< Ivanovic> ;)
20090203 20:44:57< Mordante> true
20090203 20:45:21-!- Behl [n=tobizaz@3510ds4-od.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["So long suckers"]
20090203 20:45:34< Sirp> Ivanovic: oh well, 3 million is still nice....
20090203 20:46:16< Sirp> Ivanovic: though did you want me to try to put an opt-out on collecting download stats so users don't have to participate? :p
20090203 20:46:32< zookeeper> what i'd like to know is how many people actually play the game.
20090203 20:46:49< zookeeper> of course there's no way to really get a number of that, but still.
20090203 20:47:00< Sirp> zookeeper: well with 1.6 we will get to know how many people play the game and are happy to tell us about it.
20090203 20:47:22< Sirp> slightly self-selecting, but hopefully won't be *too* bad.
20090203 20:50:06< Ivanovic> Sirp: and please implement the "may we sent data" dialog
20090203 20:50:10< zookeeper> Sirp, yeah. maybe it should have had one extra option for "i don't want the game to send any data, but send them a one-time assertion that here's one player who doesn't want to send any actual data" :p
20090203 20:50:16< Ivanovic> would be nice to have this in before the next release...
20090203 20:52:24< Sirp> zookeeper: I doubt that would change stats much.
20090203 20:52:40< Sirp> Ivanovic: yes....yes. It would help if you found a programmer who believed in the feature a little more to do your dirty work. :p
20090203 20:53:03< Sirp> and, interestingly, sf.net records almost 11k downloads for 1.5.8, but I only have statistics arrived for 3076 distinct users.
20090203 20:53:20< Sirp> I wonder if many still get blocked by firewalls, or if lots of people download it and then never complete a scenario....
20090203 20:53:33< Sirp> I guess with the dev version it's more likely people just download and look at a little eye candy
20090203 20:54:22< Sirp> and then go back to their stable version.
20090203 20:56:21 * Ivanovic thinks that several users just "block by hand" as in "hey, why does this prog want to send data, it has not asked, so i will block it in my software firewall"
20090203 20:56:26< Sirp> see, we should design Wesnoth so that content gets streamed to you off a server, and you only download the content you need. Then we would have a good excuse for tracking statistics and no-one could complain. :p
20090203 20:56:36< Ivanovic> so if there was such a dialog asking at the first time, *then* you would probably get more data
20090203 20:57:07< Sirp> Ivanovic: oh come now, you're not seriously telling me that this dialog will result in us getting *more* data instead of less, are you?
20090203 20:57:31< Ivanovic> yes, i am
20090203 20:58:20< Sirp> the users in that category will be a few percent. The users who don't care either way and have no idea what is being asked and just want to get on with their damn lives and so just click something randomly will be far greater.
20090203 20:58:50< Ivanovic> then put there 10 times okay and only once cancel
20090203 20:58:59< Ivanovic> then you will get by far more okay then not okay
20090203 20:59:00< Ivanovic> ;)
20090203 20:59:26< zookeeper> Sirp, are you sure? don't the majority of windows users have a software firewall with alerts?
20090203 21:00:14-!- lizard_r [n=rolf@Wbdb6.w.pppool.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090203 21:01:29< Sirp> zookeeper: I don't think it complains on a HTTP POST to port 80
20090203 21:01:38< lizard_r> Hi, I just followed a link to the Maintenance tools and a fond a odd line:
20090203 21:01:45< lizard_r> strings that need a translation mark and should not have them
20090203 21:01:58< lizard_r> shouldn't it be:
20090203 21:02:05< lizard_r> strings that have a translation mark and should not have them
20090203 21:02:07< zookeeper> Sirp, well, depends. i have no idea how common that would be though.
20090203 21:03:17< Sirp> zookeeper: well, in any case, Windows users make up about 70% of our stats uploads for version 1.5.8
20090203 21:03:32< lizard_r> or rather: strings that need a translation mark and «do» not have them
20090203 21:04:53< CIA-70> ivanovic * r32569 /trunk/ (53 files in 28 dirs): add Marathi translation
20090203 21:05:01< lizard_r> could anyone confirm this? I don't want to mess with that wikipage unless I know what I do
20090203 21:06:08< CIA-70> ivanovic * r32570 /trunk/po/ (2 files in 2 dirs): forgot two entries when adding Marathi translation
20090203 21:06:24< Soliton> Sirp: it's process based so you get an alert the first time an unknown process sends anything.
20090203 21:06:32< Ivanovic> lizard_r: this is clearly ESR_ who should know
20090203 21:06:54< ESR_> What's up?
20090203 21:07:19< lizard_r> http://www.wesnoth.org/mw/index.php?title=Maintenance_tools has a strange line:
20090203 21:07:29< lizard_r> * strings that need a translation mark and do not have them
20090203 21:08:10< lizard_r> oubs, tat would be the new line, the old one is: * strings that need a translation mark and should not have them
20090203 21:08:30< lizard_r> the difference is should/do near the end
20090203 21:09:13< lizard_r> ESR_, still reading/here?
20090203 21:09:36< CIA-70> ivanovic * r32571 /trunk/po/wesnoth/mr.po: fix header so that the file does compile...
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20090203 21:11:14< ESR_> lizard_r: Yes.
20090203 21:11:26< lizard_r> should I change that?
20090203 21:11:58< ESR_> The new line is correct.
20090203 21:12:23< lizard_r> ok, I changed the page
20090203 21:14:34< CIA-70> ivanovic * r32572 /branches/resources/gettext.wesnoth.org/public_html/wesnoth-gettext/westats/langs.php: add marathi to g.w.o
20090203 21:17:34< CIA-70> esr * r32573 /trunk/po/ (48 files in 2 dirs): 
20090203 21:17:34< CIA-70> Another en_GB update and two string fixes.
20090203 21:17:34< CIA-70> "It sees that guard". "It seems that guard", "wesnoth-thot",
20090203 21:17:34< CIA-70> "Go thorough that rubble", "Go through that rubble", "wesnoth-thot",
20090203 21:22:22< CIA-70> mordante * r32574 /trunk/ (changelog src/gui/widgets/control.cpp): 
20090203 21:22:22< CIA-70> Fixed an exception in the new dialog.
20090203 21:22:22< CIA-70> AI0867 and soliton discovered that the new dialogs sometimes failed with
20090203 21:22:22< CIA-70> an exception. The pango markup requires some characters to be escaped so
20090203 21:22:22< CIA-70> added the code to do that.
20090203 21:23:04< Ivanovic> ESR_: running a pot update now
20090203 21:23:23-!- EdB [n=EdB@79.88.117.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090203 21:24:59< ESR_> Thanks.
20090203 21:26:16< Ivanovic> Mordante: what beside when/where we meet do we still have to plan before fosdem?
20090203 21:27:00< Mordante> I think not much except you is going to take cables for electricity with them
20090203 21:27:49< Mordante> I have a nice unit here only not sure whether it can be used in Belgium
20090203 21:27:53< Ivanovic> yes, i plan to take an extension cable as well as a multi outlet power strip
20090203 21:27:59< Ivanovic> should be possible
20090203 21:28:02< Mordante> and since I don't use a laptop now, I can't check ;-)
20090203 21:28:20< Ivanovic> since they got the "normal" european plug, too
20090203 21:28:39< Mordante> with an extra pin for the earth
20090203 21:29:01< Mordante> so you need a connector with a hole for their earth pin
20090203 21:34:00< Ivanovic> i got some multi outlets with a connector with such a hole
20090203 21:34:13< Ivanovic> so you can attach your cord to this one and everything is fine...
20090203 21:34:29< CIA-70> ivanovic * r32575 /trunk/ (295 files in 12 dirs): 
20090203 21:34:29< CIA-70> pot-update
20090203 21:34:29< CIA-70> regenerate doc files
20090203 21:34:41< Ivanovic> ESR_: there you go
20090203 21:34:48< Mordante> I'm quite sure mine also has it, but can't check
20090203 21:35:12< Mordante> and you don't want to know how many people I've seen cursing because of that pin ;-)
20090203 21:36:08< ilor_> amusingly, Poland has the same type of sockets so I don't have that problem ;)
20090203 21:36:35< Ivanovic> ilor_: my laptop had the fitting hole, so i won't have a problem either...
20090203 21:37:19< ilor_> yeah quite a lot of electronic equipment, especially laptop chargers, have a universal plug that'll work with the extra pin or the German-style grounding
20090203 21:37:38< Mordante> I think nowadays most connectors have that hole, but I've some old ones as well
20090203 21:38:18< Mordante> my 20 meter extension also has it, but that is a bit overkill to take with me
20090203 21:39:02< ilor_> Mordante: when you're talking cables, there's no overkill, only extensive redundancy ;)
20090203 21:39:25< Ivanovic> if you take this one, then we can use every place in the room and can plug any european multi outlet into it
20090203 21:39:32< ESR_> Ivanovic: Grrr...now that I'm auditing a full translation, a number of string problems that a spellchecker can't catch and are also difficult to notice by eyeball are becoming apparent. 15 of them now. 
20090203 21:39:34< Ivanovic> so it *might* be wise to put it into your car
20090203 21:39:44< Ivanovic> ESR_: :)
20090203 21:40:05< Ivanovic> ESR_: see it this way: those are fixed before 1.6
20090203 21:40:26< ESR_> Yes, I know. It's a good thing.  Sigh. 
20090203 21:40:35< Mordante> I'll think about it, but if might force to take two bags...
20090203 21:40:43< Ivanovic> Mordante: why bags?
20090203 21:40:56< Ivanovic> no need for a bag for the extension when leaving your car at the campus
20090203 21:41:04< Ivanovic> we can just go to the car and fetch it...
20090203 21:41:05< Mordante> good point
20090203 21:41:38< Ivanovic> there i will leave the extensions i bring, too
20090203 21:43:13< Ivanovic> currently i am just thinking about which bag(s) i should take with me
20090203 21:44:04< Mordante> well I want to get away with one bag and I fear my eeepc won't arrive in time so need my old laptop
20090203 21:44:29< Ivanovic> since i don't want to be carrying around two backpacks (my normal one (the one with the laptop and all this stuff) and one for the cloths) since i don't want to carry the cloths around with me, i want to leave them at the hostel on saturday
20090203 21:44:30< ilor_> Ivanovic: I have it easy. I'm taking my backpack, and I'm aiming for the cabin luggage weight limit ;)
20090203 21:44:50< Ivanovic> ilor_: my guess is that Dragonking will basically do the same
20090203 21:46:02< grzywacz> Sirp, btw. std::set iterator doesn't support arithmetic ;)
20090203 21:46:23< Mordante> well I also aim for that and put my clothes in a plastic bag so I can also leave them at the hostel
20090203 21:48:08< Ivanovic> currently i consider taking my old laptop bag with me
20090203 21:49:11< Ivanovic> that is my normal backpack for all the cloths and stuff and the laptop bag (maybe it fits on top of the normal stuff?) for the "technical stuff" like my laptop, my usb "stick", ...
20090203 21:50:09< CIA-70> zookeeper * r32576 /trunk/data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/04c.Mal-Ravanals_Capital.cfg: Lower the turn limit to decrease the early finish bonus.
20090203 21:50:10< Mordante> where do we want to meet, the hostel I assume?
20090203 21:50:18< Ivanovic> Mordante: not sure yet
20090203 21:50:24< Ivanovic> also depends on when you will be in brussels
20090203 21:50:38< Ivanovic> if it is late enough, we can meet at ULB (that is at least DK, you and I)
20090203 21:50:53< Ivanovic> if not i'd say we should meet at centraal station
20090203 21:51:07< Ivanovic> though yeah, we can aim for the hostel, too
20090203 21:52:26< Mordante> when will you at ULB?
20090203 21:52:33< Sirp> grzywacz: you mean it's not a random access iterator? Yes, I know. :) What of it?
20090203 21:52:44< Ivanovic> Mordante: around 17:00
20090203 21:52:53< Ivanovic> that is: if traffic permits and i really just need 3h
20090203 21:52:57< Sirp> grzywacz: I pointed out that join() of Sapient's is a little better because it works with forward iterators. 
20090203 21:53:08< Ivanovic> since the plane Dragonking uses arrives in dortmund at 13:45
20090203 21:54:01< grzywacz> Sirp, the error gcc was reporting yesterday was totally confusing. I'm going to try feeding that code to Comeau and see what happens
20090203 21:54:19< grzywacz> Sirp, it was trying to use t_string's operator+ for that iterator. Some template madness. ;)
20090203 21:54:49< Mordante> I expect to be there earlier, but otherwise we call you when we're at ULB also not sure how bad the traffic will be
20090203 21:54:53< Soliton> no, it was proposing that operator as one you might have meant.
20090203 21:55:18< grzywacz> Soliton, yes, t_string's operator+ for std::set<std::string>::const_iterator
20090203 21:55:19< grzywacz> :P
20090203 21:56:28< Soliton> is the compiler supposed to know that that's really not what you meant?
20090203 21:56:43< grzywacz> yes
20090203 21:57:08< Soliton> make it sentient?
20090203 21:57:40< grzywacz> Soliton, you're forcing a pun on me ;)
20090203 21:57:57< Soliton> i like puns.
20090203 21:58:53< grzywacz> I'll pass on this one. ;)
20090203 22:01:04 * Sirp is completely confused as to what is being talked about.
20090203 22:01:33< Sirp> do you mean you were trying to add a t_string to a set<string>::const_iterator ??
20090203 22:01:52< Sirp> because otherwise there is no reason it'd use t_string's operator+
20090203 22:02:31< Soliton> it was just a candidate gcc proposed.
20090203 22:02:47< Soliton> http://rafb.net/p/0rsO6R25.html
20090203 22:02:49< grzywacz> Sirp, no, I was adding 1 to the iterator.
20090203 22:03:54< silene> grzywacz: ++iter(i) ?
20090203 22:04:04< grzywacz> silene, iter + 1
20090203 22:04:17< grzywacz> See the paste link from Soliton.
20090203 22:04:41< silene> grzywacz: i'm proposing something that works; that was not really a question
20090203 22:05:17< grzywacz> silene, that copies it, doesn't it?
20090203 22:05:24< Sirp> grzywacz: if you add one to the iterator, you will get a weird compile error, but it shouldn't have anything to do with operator+
20090203 22:05:39< Sirp> grzywacz: anyhow, I suggest boost::next()
20090203 22:05:54< grzywacz> Sirp, I'm just saying that the message from gcc is confusing. :)
20090203 22:06:42< Sirp> grzywacz: okay. :)
20090203 22:06:55< silene> grzywacz: yes, then the incrementation no longer modifies it
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20090203 22:06:59< CIA-70> ivanovic * r32577 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth/de.po wesnoth-thot/de.po): updated German translation (almost only unfuzzying)
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20090203 22:07:33< CIA-70> mordante * r32578 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: Add some more tests for the dialogs.
20090203 22:07:46< Mordante> I'm off now, night
20090203 22:07:51< Ivanovic> n8 Mordante
20090203 22:08:02-!- Mordante [n=chatzill@roadie.xs4all.nl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Iceweasel 3.0.5/2008122011]"]
20090203 22:08:57< grzywacz> Sirp, boost::next?
20090203 22:12:34< grzywacz> utils::split still needs some love ;)
20090203 22:14:09< Soliton> isn't the template working now?
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20090203 22:14:57< grzywacz> Soliton, it does, but it still takes quite a nice percent of time on my new profile. I must have messed something up.
20090203 22:15:00< Sirp> grzywacz: http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_37_0/libs/utility/utility.htm#functions_next_prior
20090203 22:15:24< Soliton> grzywacz: well, caching is still needed?
20090203 22:15:34< grzywacz> Soliton, it caches
20090203 22:15:50< grzywacz> Soliton, there seems to be an another busy caller
20090203 22:16:05< Sirp> grzywacz: basically boost::next(i) is the same as (i+1) except it also works on forward iterators
20090203 22:16:30< grzywacz> gui::menu::style::item_size looks evil
20090203 22:16:37< grzywacz> Sirp, ok :)
20090203 22:16:41< Sirp> it's recommended that you use boost::next instead of (i+1) in any generic algorithms.
20090203 22:16:55< Sirp> grzywacz: it's also trivial enough to just define yourself if you don't want to #include a new boost library
20090203 22:16:56< loonycyborg> I saw more confusing messages from gcc than http://rafb.net/p/0rsO6R25.html :P
20090203 22:16:56< Soliton> grzywacz: there are some utils::split(preferences::get("friends")); calls, did you eliminate those?
20090203 22:17:15< grzywacz> Soliton, sure
20090203 22:17:40< silene> Sirp, grzywacz: for the record, there is std::advance(i,1) too
20090203 22:17:40< Soliton> ok, not in the patch i have.
20090203 22:17:48< Sirp> grzywacz: so are you going to make split() generic next?
20090203 22:18:20< Sirp> silene: sure, but it's more annoying to use. boost::next is just a convenience
20090203 22:18:32< grzywacz> Sirp, I don't really *intend* to go changing stuff there without an overarching reason ;)
20090203 22:18:35< Sirp> I mean, if you only want to go forward one space, you can just use ++ easily enough. :)
20090203 22:19:37< silene> that being said, i just looked and i see std::next; i should check whether it's supported by g++
20090203 22:19:38< grzywacz> Soliton, on the other hand looking at gui profiles in 1.4 is completely redundant, so I'm going to leave it as is for a moment :P
20090203 22:21:54< silene> hmm no, it isn't yet
20090203 22:23:36< Soliton> grzywacz: well, what you had so far certainly fixed it for me so that's fine.
20090203 22:23:47< Turuk> Ivanovic, thanks for fixing Flamma's registration issues for me.
20090203 22:24:04< Ivanovic> Turuk: no problem
20090203 22:24:34< grzywacz> Soliton, I know. I'm just trying to make it prettier for trunk...
20090203 22:24:43< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32579 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: Remove workaround for engine bug.
20090203 22:25:40< zookeeper> sigh, there's so much outdated stuff in the art tutorial wiki pages.
20090203 22:26:04< zookeeper> i'm just tempted to slap a big "assume that anything on any of these pages might be obsolete" label on it
20090203 22:26:18< grzywacz> Soliton, the version you have still exhibits slow manipulation of ignores/friends list :)
20090203 22:27:08< Soliton> my friends list manipulations are done by sed so no problem for me. :-P
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20090203 22:27:48< grzywacz> Soliton, %)
20090203 22:28:00< Sirp> what does it do when someone is a friend? notify you when they are online?
20090203 22:28:21< grzywacz> When they are online.
20090203 22:28:26< Ivanovic> Sirp: shown at the top of the list
20090203 22:28:30< Ivanovic> in the mp lobby
20090203 22:28:33< Sirp> ahhh
20090203 22:28:46< Soliton> it also plays a different sound when they chat.
20090203 22:28:49< grzywacz> Sirp, and ladder players have 1.5k friends, hence the need to speed this path up :P
20090203 22:29:20< Sirp> uh-huh
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20090203 23:17:43< Shadow_Master> A       po/wesnoth-manual/mr.po
20090203 23:17:54< Shadow_Master> am I the only one who finds this slightly hilarious?
20090203 23:18:51< CIA-70> shadowmaster * r32580 /trunk/data/core/about.cfg: 
20090203 23:18:51< CIA-70> Sleepwalker's art contributor entry was not put in alphabetical order by
20090203 23:18:51< CIA-70> thespaceinvader. Fixing that.
20090203 23:19:04< CIA-70> shadowmaster * r32581 /trunk/data/core/about.cfg: Updated my credits entry.
20090203 23:19:20< CIA-70> shadowmaster * r32582 /trunk/src/widgets/progressbar.cpp: 
20090203 23:19:20< CIA-70> Highlight the text in the filled area of a progressbar with a light-gray
20090203 23:19:20< CIA-70> color.
20090203 23:19:31< Shadow_Master> thespaceinvader: ^ (r32580)
20090203 23:19:58< thespaceinvader> Shadow_Master: sorry about that - what alphabetical order is it?  By user name or real?
20090203 23:20:22< Shadow_Master> thespaceinvader: real name
20090203 23:20:29< thespaceinvader> ok
20090203 23:20:45< Shadow_Master> of course you fall back to username if the real name isn't available.
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20090203 23:36:43< Ivanovic> time for me to head off to bed, n8
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20090203 23:40:29< Shadow_Master> boucman: unit-gets-hit sounds are not working in 1.5.9 (the release) and in trunk. The unit-has-been-killed sounds work, but not the non-critical hit sounds
20090203 23:40:43< Shadow_Master> should be obvious how to reproduce: test scenario, attack something.
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20090203 23:55:01-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20090203 23:56:39< Sapient> yo
20090203 23:57:05< Shadow_Master> oy
20090203 23:57:11< noy> yoy
--- Log closed Wed Feb 04 00:00:04 2009