--- Log opened Wed Feb 04 00:00:04 2009
--- Day changed Wed Feb 04 2009
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20090204 00:24:21< CIA-70> shadowmaster * r32583 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth/es.po wesnoth-thot/es.po): Spanish translation update.
20090204 00:28:47< fabi> Sapient: Do you believe {VARIABLE_OP random_string format "0..$($random_placement_locations.length - 1)"} works?
20090204 00:30:02< Shadow_Master> I don't see why not, but the usage of "format" is archaic
20090204 00:30:06< Sapient> why use format?
20090204 00:30:17< Shadow_Master> you could just {RANDOM "0..$(formula)"}
20090204 00:30:54< Sapient> and you should really define "works"
20090204 00:31:31< Sapient> if you are trying to generate a random number you should be using rand= or random=
20090204 00:31:55 * Shadow_Master is of the opinion that support for the 'format' operator should be marked for removal in Wesnoth 1.7.0
20090204 00:32:43 * Sapient agrees
20090204 00:32:59< Shadow_Master> * deprecated in 1.7.0 and removed in 1.7.2
20090204 00:33:27< fabi> Okay, thank you. I am just going to rewrite the whole code segment. This is about https://gna.org/bugs/?12912
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20090204 00:37:38< Sapient> Sirp / silene : the cache in variable.cpp is primarily to store config content inserted via [insert_tag]
20090204 00:38:44< Sapient> the file has grown a lot but I was too lazy to split it apart
20090204 00:39:33< Sirp> oh.....
20090204 00:39:43 * Sirp still doesn't really understand.
20090204 00:39:57< Sapient> you know what [insert_tag] does right?
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20090204 00:40:25< Shadow_Master> vconfig just needs to be taught to make coffee now.
20090204 00:40:55< Sapient> nah, pizza and dr. pepper
20090204 00:45:46< Sapient> Sirp: in short, whenever WML from a volatile source (such as a WML variable) is treated as executable WML (i.e. ActionWML), it becomes necessary to copy and garuntee persistance for that WML for a period of time, duration of which varies depending on what actions are performed
20090204 00:47:04< Sirp> ahhhh
20090204 00:47:12< Sapient> consider for example, the case of a spawned [event] which is created from an inserted tag
20090204 00:47:24< Sirp> Sapient: so is there any way you could use boost::shared_ptr or boost::intrusive_ptr to do the reference counting?
20090204 00:47:45< Sapient> why the heck would I do that?
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20090204 00:48:25< Sirp> just because having your own reference counting code with calls to delete is a maintenance overhead and possible source of present or future bugs
20090204 00:48:45< Sapient> I have thoroughly tested and commented it
20090204 00:48:53< Sirp> I mean it's cool if you can't or don't think it's the best solution......just wondered if you considered it.
20090204 00:48:58 * Sirp nods
20090204 00:49:46< Sapient> for one thing, a generic boost pointer wouldn't be able to recognize equivalent configs and would store duplicates in memory
20090204 00:49:47< AI0867> Soliton: any reason why transfer_ai_sides() is called *after* transferring the ownership?
20090204 00:50:01< AI0867> this being from src/server/game.cpp
20090204 00:50:05< Soliton> AI0867: i'm on it. :-)
20090204 00:50:14< Sapient> also, it wouldn't be aware of looking up the right configs based on config::hash
20090204 00:52:14< grzywacz> night
20090204 00:53:59< AI0867> moving it around seems to work, but I'd like to know if there's a reason for it
20090204 00:54:32< Soliton> i don't think there is. check history if you like.
20090204 00:54:57< AI0867> I did, which brought me to you refactoring the code
20090204 00:55:18< Soliton> well, then it was likely just a mistake there.
20090204 00:55:46< Soliton> AI0867: did you also test moving send_change_controller() before so the right server message is displayed?
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20090204 00:58:11< Sapient> also, it wouldn't memorize the hash to avoid recalculation
20090204 01:00:29< Sapient> and those three things are all it does, really
20090204 01:03:06< Sapient> 1) avoid storing duplicate configs in memory 2) use config::hash to quickly find duplicates, and 3) memorize the hash of configs when safe to do so, thus avoiding unnecessary recalculation
20090204 01:03:10< AI0867> Soliton: what do you mean exactly?
20090204 01:03:17< AI0867> oh, right
20090204 01:03:34< AI0867> indeed, no transfer messages are shown for the AI
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20090204 01:14:30< Kest|Fraith> What does Create/Apply Mask do in the Map Editor?
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20090204 01:18:23< ilor_> Kest|Fraith: apply does what the mask tag in WML would do, pastes one map on top on the other. Create mask creates a 'diff' between two maps
20090204 01:18:43< Kest|Fraith> Oh.
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20090204 01:18:56< Kest|Fraith> What would that be used for?
20090204 01:19:09< ilor_> There are scenarios that use masks extensively
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20090204 01:19:26< ilor_> it helps if the editor can be used to "see" the final map
20090204 01:19:49< ilor_> see, for instance, Sceptre of Fire final scenario
20090204 01:20:28< AI0867> but it *does* show "AI sides transferred to new host"
20090204 01:21:04< ilor_> truth be told, just replacing the entire map would work just as well in my opinion, but I only wrote the editor ;)
20090204 01:22:20< Soliton> AI0867: i meant it only says "side changes controller to human" for the human side and not the nick.
20090204 01:22:45< AI0867> oh, that
20090204 01:22:56< Soliton> AI0867: same thing there. because it happens after the actual transfer it thinks the side ownership didn#t change.
20090204 01:24:46< AI0867> I'll commit this first
20090204 01:25:15< Soliton> it's moving one line...
20090204 01:25:39 * AI0867 checks the code
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20090204 01:28:17< Soliton> well, actually it's a bit more complicated, i think.
20090204 01:30:50< Kest|Fraith> Blegh
20090204 01:31:28< Kest|Fraith> Someone gave me a blank campaign to work with, but the map is messed up
20090204 01:31:45< Kest|Fraith> says its missing a header and wont load
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20090204 01:35:37< Soliton> though actually recompiling before testing helps...
20090204 01:42:28< AI0867> why is my git-svn dcommit eating all my CPU?
20090204 01:45:28< AI0867> ah, a rebase that is taking ages...
20090204 01:45:37< AI0867> for no apparent reason
20090204 01:52:02< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32584 /trunk/src/server/game.cpp: Transfer AI sides to new host transparently. (bug #12935)
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20090204 02:03:44< Soliton> that doesn't fix the transfer side case.
20090204 02:05:19< Soliton> also the point there was to first list the human sides and then the ai sides at once.
20090204 02:05:43< Soliton> if you had specified what transfer_ai_sides() call you were talking about... ;-)
20090204 02:06:39< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32585 /trunk/src/server/game.cpp: When replacing the host, show his nick if he takes control of a side.
20090204 02:08:15< Soliton> well, guess i'll check that another day. night.
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20090204 02:38:03< CIA-70> esr * r32586 /trunk/ (104 files in 6 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20090204 02:38:03< CIA-70> en_GB updates for TROW, TSG, and tutorial. Also, more string fixes. Here
20090204 02:38:03< CIA-70> is the cumulative list:
20090204 02:38:03< CIA-70> "get of her high horse", "get off her high horse", "wesnoth-nr",
20090204 02:38:03< CIA-70> "Edition", "Editing", "wesnoth",
20090204 02:38:04< CIA-70> "the godly city of Tath", "the goodly city of Tath", "wesnoth-did",
20090204 02:38:06< CIA-70> "2 000 gold", "2,000 gold", "wesnoth-nr",
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20090204 03:28:20< Shadow_Master> nice. the test scenario causes a SIGSEGV on startup.
20090204 03:31:24< Shadow_Master> not nice. it somehow stopped doing it even though I didn't recompile.
20090204 03:32:37< CIA-70> shadowmaster * r32587 /trunk/src/image_function.cpp: 
20090204 03:32:37< CIA-70> Made image_function.cpp belong to the wesnoth-lib textdomain even though
20090204 03:32:37< CIA-70> it still doesn't contain any tstrings.
20090204 03:36:17< Shadow_Master> Turuk: w00t, we have a new one http://wesnoth.debian.net/%23wesnoth-dev-2009-01-31.log
20090204 03:36:25< Shadow_Master> wrong link. http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=23941
20090204 03:36:56< Turuk> Charming, a new naga
20090204 03:36:59< Shadow_Master> not having eaten anything for the last three days is really bad for my sanity. This is the correct link. http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=23932
20090204 03:37:01< Turuk> with a merman head
20090204 03:37:37< Turuk> Ah, but you have to like him.  He took criticism and advice, and, as of the moment, is interested in finding what he needs to practice
20090204 03:39:17< Shadow_Master> well, I could avoid having a (painful) laugh at the "P.S. if you haven't noticed, His name is george"
20090204 03:40:05< Turuk> Haha fair enough.
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20090204 04:40:27< [Relic]> Hello :)
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20090204 07:24:27< CIA-70> esr * r32588 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth-units/en_GB.po wesnoth-utbs/en_GB.po): en_GB updates for UtBS and units.
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20090204 09:51:08< CIA-70> ivanovic * r32589 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog po/wesnoth-aoi/ru.po): updated Russian translation
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20090204 10:15:08< CIA-70> esr * r32590 /trunk/po/wesnoth-anl/en_GB.po: Fix and unfuzzy a string.
20090204 10:17:34< zookeeper> i wonder if we should establish some kind of a crude convention on where the pine and deciduous forests would be used.
20090204 10:36:34< CIA-70> esr * r32591 /trunk/po/ (144 files in 5 dirs): Apply cumulated string fixes.
20090204 10:39:50< ESR_> Ivanovic: You there?
20090204 10:42:09< CIA-70> esr * r32592 /trunk/utils/pofix.py: 
20090204 10:42:09< CIA-70> Add the pofix.py utility for applying .po string fixes to incoming
20090204 10:42:09< CIA-70> translations. This will be deleted when 1.6 translations are done.
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20090204 11:03:32< AI0867> ESR_: your tool is lacking a feature
20090204 11:03:39< AI0867> it doesn't remove duplicates
20090204 11:03:46< ESR_> ?
20090204 11:03:50< AI0867> the result is that compiling the pos fails
20090204 11:03:55< AI0867> po/wesnoth-nr/af.po:7209: duplicate message definition...
20090204 11:03:55< AI0867> po/wesnoth-nr/af.po:7144: ...this is the location of the first definition
20090204 11:03:55< AI0867> po/wesnoth-nr/af.po:8410: duplicate message definition...
20090204 11:03:55< AI0867> po/wesnoth-nr/af.po:1917: ...this is the location of the first definition
20090204 11:04:34< AI0867> probably a result of your string fixing
20090204 11:05:20< ESR_> Hm.  Can you fix that individual duplicate?  I'd do it, but I'm in the process of wtriting the dev-ML post to explain things.
20090204 11:05:51< AI0867> as it's in af.po, I think it's in *every* po file of that textdomain, so automation is needed
20090204 11:06:22< AI0867> I'll see if I can add that feature to pofix.py if you don't mind
20090204 11:06:50< ESR_> Go ahead.
20090204 11:07:21< AI0867> okay, pofix is a bit shorter than I thought
20090204 11:07:39< ESR_> That's a problem?
20090204 11:09:11< AI0867> well, I'll have to write the functionality myself =P
20090204 11:09:22< AI0867> rather than use an extensive existing framework
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20090204 11:10:35< Ivanovic_ontour> with pofix being too simple there actually *IS* a problem
20090204 11:10:48< Ivanovic_ontour> you *musn't* edit the existing strings in the translations
20090204 11:10:49< ESR_> ?
20090204 11:11:15< Ivanovic_ontour> you are only allowed to edit the msgid part, not the msgstr part
20090204 11:11:22< Ivanovic_ontour> have you already made sure that this is the case?
20090204 11:11:43< Ivanovic_ontour> since some translations may have terms that are completely valid and are then overwritten by your changes
20090204 11:12:10< ESR_> Ah, well, I wrote the strings so that's not going to happen..  The only place it's even imaginable would be in en_GB, and I checked that.
20090204 11:12:47< ESR_> That's why each change has as much context as it does.
20090204 11:12:55< Ivanovic_ontour> hehe, are you sure about this?
20090204 11:13:01< ESR_> Yes.
20090204 11:13:05< Ivanovic_ontour> afrikaans might have the problem as well as dutch
20090204 11:13:16< Ivanovic_ontour> since both got terms that are "rather" similar to the english ones
20090204 11:13:34< Ivanovic_ontour> so make sure to *only* edit msgids and everything is fine
20090204 11:13:58< ESR_> Looking at the list of strings, I'd still say it's *wildly* unlikelu.
20090204 11:14:05< Ivanovic_ontour> beside this: do not automatically change stuff in #~ lines
20090204 11:14:17< Ivanovic_ontour> since those are commented out (for fuzzy matching)
20090204 11:14:23< AI0867> actually, I handfixed af.po to test, then ar.po balked
20090204 11:14:43< AI0867> the problem is that a typoed msgid was changed to a msgid that already existed
20090204 11:15:00< Ivanovic_ontour> ESR_: in general such a script is *really* helpfull for the future to easily fix typos in the original
20090204 11:15:02< AI0867> resulting in duplicate msgids which causes msgfmt to balk
20090204 11:15:13< ESR_> Yep, that would fuck things up all right.
20090204 11:15:16< Ivanovic_ontour> so it would be great to have a "well working" one for general purpose
20090204 11:15:52< ESR_> IvanovicI know.  I'm your toolsmith, remember?  I *always* automate away stuff like this :-)
20090204 11:16:28< ESR_> Well, what's the fastest way to recover from this duplicate?
20090204 11:16:34 * ESR_ thinks...
20090204 11:17:00< ESR_> Aha.  Got it.
20090204 11:19:01< ESR_> Time to strip out the duplicates.
20090204 11:22:11< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32593 /trunk/utils/pofix.py: Build in safeguard for pofix to prevent duplicate msgids.
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20090204 11:30:07< Ivanovic_ontour> then it will start to become difficult: which version to use when the translations differ?
20090204 11:30:08< Ivanovic_ontour> ;)
20090204 11:38:14< AI0867> yes, that's the main issue =/
20090204 11:40:39< ESR_> I'm removing the duplicates. that will get the build working again.
20090204 11:41:14< ESR_> A more permanent solutiin will require pofix to be more clever, but I need to sleep soon.
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20090204 11:45:08< Ivanovic_ontour> and i got to head off and get some food into my belly...
20090204 11:45:09< Ivanovic_ontour> cu
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20090204 11:52:50< CIA-70> esr * r32594 /trunk/po/wesnoth-nr/ (47 files): 
20090204 11:52:50< CIA-70> Hand-remove some msgids that collided when a typo in NR was fixed so the
20090204 11:52:50< CIA-70> build will work again. A real fix for this problem will require pofix.py to
20090204 11:52:50< CIA-70> be smarter.
20090204 11:56:06< AI0867> ESR_: there were several cases where old == new, is there a reason for this or is this a mistake?
20090204 11:56:35< ESR_> That's an error, probably. I'll look.
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20090204 11:57:05< AI0867> ("Rest assured, sir", "Rest assured, sir"),
20090204 11:57:08< CIA-70> esr * r32595 /trunk/data/campaigns/Northern_Rebirth/ (9 files in 2 dirs): NR string fixes to match the .po ones.
20090204 11:59:24< ESR_> I think the old copy shouldn't have a comma.
20090204 12:00:50< ESR_> But I need to sleep now.  Build is working and the pofix.py concept is proved; I'll polish tomorrow, if you  haven't jumped in and fixed everything first :)
20090204 12:01:11< ESR_> Good night.
20090204 12:03:07-!- ivan_i [n=chatzill@ppp91-76-200-5.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008121621]"]
20090204 12:03:39< AI0867> fg
20090204 12:03:41< AI0867> er
20090204 12:08:33< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32596 /trunk/utils/pofix.py: Add a sanity check to pofix, fix a string pair triggering it.
20090204 12:10:24< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32597 /trunk/po/wesnoth-nr/ (46 files): Run fixed pofix.
20090204 12:21:23< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32598 /trunk/ (49 files in 3 dirs): Fix a spelling error in NR, including pofix and po updates.
20090204 12:24:51< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32599 /trunk/utils/pofix.py: Update timestamp in pofix.
20090204 12:54:58-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@91.108.156.74] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090204 13:09:44< CIA-70> zookeeper * r32600 /trunk/data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/ (6 files): Changed the player's starting gold back to 200/150/100 in the early scenarios, and compensated mostly by lowering enemy gold and tweaking their recruits.
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20090204 14:15:11< Ivanovic> re
20090204 14:23:01< Ivanovic> ESR_: allowed your mail to the i18n list
20090204 14:23:17< Ivanovic> running a pot-update now to check if the files really are fine...
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20090204 14:35:37< CIA-70> ivanovic * r32601 /trunk/po/ (290 files in 10 dirs): 
20090204 14:35:37< CIA-70> pot-update ("really" fix the files changed by esr)
20090204 14:35:37< CIA-70> updated German translation
20090204 14:42:07< AI0867> Ivanovic: that seems to have reverted some fixes, should pofix touch .pot files too?
20090204 14:45:54< Ivanovic> of course
20090204 14:46:14< Ivanovic> *but* the changes to the files has a simple reason: the .cfg files changed
20090204 14:46:27< Ivanovic> the .pot file is regenerated before every single po file is merged
20090204 14:46:46< Ivanovic> and at that time, the pot file is *only* depending on the "real" strings in mainline
20090204 14:47:00< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32602 /trunk/utils/pofix.py: Make pofix touch .pot files too, so changes don't get reverted by pot-update.
20090204 14:47:54< Ivanovic> AI0867: wrong conclusion
20090204 14:48:11< Ivanovic> now the changes do not get lost by "updating po files against pot files"
20090204 14:48:18< Ivanovic> (without a pot update)
20090204 14:48:31< Ivanovic> the update i ran is basically this:
20090204 14:48:49< Ivanovic> 1) generate a fresh .pot file from the strings that are all over trunk
20090204 14:49:02< Ivanovic> 2) merge the po files from trunk against this newly created pot file
20090204 14:50:37< Ivanovic> so for a pot-update the only thing relevant are these:
20090204 14:50:49< Ivanovic> all the files with english strings that are marked translateable
20090204 14:50:54< AI0867> right, so esr included changes in pofix without fixing the origin?
20090204 14:50:55< Ivanovic> and the status of the po files in turnk
20090204 14:50:59< Ivanovic> jupp
20090204 14:51:04< AI0867> great
20090204 14:51:08< Ivanovic> jupp
20090204 14:57:18< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32603 /trunk/utils/pofix.py: Modify pofix so it can work on .cfg files too.
20090204 14:58:14< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32604 /trunk/ (49 files in 2 dirs): Run pofix on Northern Rebirth and its po files.
20090204 15:02:06< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32605 /trunk/ (49 files in 2 dirs): Run pofix on THoT and its pofiles.
20090204 15:05:32< CIA-70> ai0867 * r32606 /trunk/ (50 files in 2 dirs): Run pofix on TRoW and its pofiles.
20090204 15:06:07< AI0867> Ivanovic: I'm done, can you run pot-update?
20090204 15:06:51< Ivanovic> already doing so
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20090204 15:09:59< Ivanovic> done
20090204 15:10:21< Ivanovic> since this time it worked as expected, none of the files from wesnoth-nr, wesnoth-thot and wesnoth-trow was touched
20090204 15:10:38< CIA-70> ivanovic * r32607 /trunk/po/wesnoth/ (48 files): just another pot-update making sure that the last edits to pofix.py really work as expected...
20090204 15:12:24< AI0867> okay, so this is the current way pofix works:
20090204 15:12:50< AI0867> 1. Add a pair (oldstring, newstring) to its list of the things
20090204 15:13:06< AI0867> 2. Run it on both the original file and the po(t)files generated from it
20090204 15:15:30< Ivanovic> how is pofix to be run?
20090204 15:15:39< Ivanovic> (because of adding it to my normal script stuff)
20090204 15:17:22< Ivanovic> is it (eg when in po/wesnoth/ and want to update de.po) this command: ../../utils/pofix.py de.po
20090204 15:17:26< Ivanovic> ?
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20090204 15:19:16< AI0867> yeah
20090204 15:20:03< AI0867> though for NR I used find data/campaigns/Northern_Rebirth po/wesnoth-nr|xargs utils/pofix.py
20090204 15:24:31< Ivanovic> i am *only* talking about how to update the po files before commiting
20090204 15:24:42< Ivanovic> i don't care about edits to the cfg files atm...
20090204 15:24:58< Ivanovic> (since i now added pofix.py in my normal update procedure)
20090204 15:27:51< AI0867> k
20090204 15:28:05< AI0867> just run it directly on the po and it'll replace the msgids
20090204 15:28:39< AI0867> it will complain and exit if it detects possible duplication
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20090204 16:35:32< Ivanovic> wesbot: seen cib
20090204 16:35:33< wesbot> Ivanovic: Person, who 4d 18h ago used nick cib, 4d 15h ago as cib_ they left with the message: Remote closed the connection
20090204 16:35:36< Ivanovic> wesbot: seen cib0
20090204 16:35:36< wesbot> Ivanovic: The person with the nick cib0 last spoke 3d 20h ago.  3d 16h ago they left with the message: Remote closed the connection
20090204 16:35:42< Ivanovic> wesbot: seen cib1
20090204 16:35:42< wesbot> Ivanovic: The person with the nick cib1 last spoke 10d ago.  9d 18h ago they left with the message: Remote closed the connection
20090204 16:35:48< Ivanovic> wesbot: seen cib_
20090204 16:35:48< wesbot> Ivanovic: The person with the nick cib_ 4d 15h ago they left with the message: Remote closed the connection
20090204 16:40:20-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090204 16:42:44< Ivanovic> okay, completed my phone book with the numbers of the fosdem participants list
20090204 16:42:56< Ivanovic> (and also got a "analog" copy of it on plain paper, just to be sure...)
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20090204 20:18:06< silene> hi
20090204 20:33:58< Ivanovic> hi silene
20090204 20:34:05< Ivanovic> silene: will you be coming over to fosdem?
20090204 20:35:23< silene> unfortunately no, i won't be able to attend it
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20090204 20:42:45< grzywacz> evening
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20090204 21:35:51 * boucman updates his laptop for FOSDEM
20090204 21:37:10< grzywacz> :-)
20090204 21:37:29< boucman> I almost never use it
20090204 21:37:50< boucman> I even had to regenerate a key because gna refused the one I had (debian ssh vulnerability
20090204 21:39:47< grzywacz> Obligatory picture: http://www.metasploit.com/users/hdm/tools/debian-openssl/tcv80ipepkza7.jpg
20090204 21:39:58-!- thespaceinvader_ [n=chatzill@91.108.128.67] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090204 21:40:01< boucman> hehe
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20090204 21:40:12< boucman> I already saw taht one but it's still funny
20090204 21:42:31< grzywacz> Huh, another good idea for Wesnoth April 1st edition. :P
20090204 21:43:53< Noyga> mine is 1 week old, so i'm making sure i have everything i need for fosdem :)
20090204 21:49:14 * Noyga will have the choice between vista & Fedora
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20090204 21:55:30< Ivanovic> hmm, so cib was still not around?!?
20090204 21:56:03< Ivanovic> Noyga: take fedora...
20090204 21:56:10< Ivanovic> this is more likely to work as expected
20090204 21:56:11< Ivanovic> ;)
20090204 21:56:27< Noyga> Ivanovic, yeah it's my default boot :)
20090204 21:56:36-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090204 21:57:02< Noyga> btw i'm trying to install a compile env on both :)
20090204 22:01:02< Ivanovic> ugh, good luck...
20090204 22:01:08< Ivanovic> oaky, i sent CIB a mail
20090204 22:01:33< Ivanovic> Noyga: so you will wait at 2go4 for us when we arrive there probably around 6pm
20090204 22:01:39< Ivanovic> (or a little later...)
20090204 22:01:52< Ivanovic> boucman: when will we meet you, at fosdem on saturday?
20090204 22:02:01< boucman> yes, most likely
20090204 22:02:19< Ivanovic> boucman: when do you plan to be there?
20090204 22:02:24< boucman> though I will be at the beer party with the Ada people, so we might bump into each other there
20090204 22:02:27< boucman> not sure
20090204 22:02:33< Ivanovic> if you are there early: conquer one of the hacking rooms for us
20090204 22:02:34< boucman> just after dinner, I guess
20090204 22:02:34< Ivanovic> ;)
20090204 22:02:41< Sirp> boucman: Ada? That's so 80's.... :)
20090204 22:02:44< boucman> oh, you mean on saturday...
20090204 22:02:49< Ivanovic> jupp, saturday
20090204 22:02:58< Ivanovic> i'd say we go for the same room as last year
20090204 22:03:12< boucman> Sirp: you obviously don't work in a world where programs have to be proven before they are run ;)
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20090204 22:03:17< grzywacz> Sirp, not really, there's a new standard ;)
20090204 22:03:29< Sirp> grzywacz: there's a new Fortran standard too. :p
20090204 22:03:40< grzywacz> Sirp, define new
20090204 22:03:50< boucman> Ivanovic: i will be at 2go4 too, sharing the room with Noyga, so we will probably go together in the morning if you set a wake-up time
20090204 22:04:00< Ivanovic> boucman: okay
20090204 22:04:08< Ivanovic> noyga should know the "departure at the hostel" time
20090204 22:04:10< Sirp> boucman: nope, I live in a world where we mark the entire Internet as being malicious. ;)
20090204 22:04:41< boucman> I live in a world where an invalid pointer can mean a dozen plane crash...
20090204 22:04:46< boucman> :P
20090204 22:04:49< Ivanovic> we will then just head over to "de brockere"
20090204 22:05:03< boucman> (or a nuclear breakdown, just mentionning the most common usages of Ada)
20090204 22:05:06< Ivanovic> and take the bus to fosdem
20090204 22:05:22< Sirp> boucman: yes yes, fair enough; I understand that Ada is still used heavily for highly reliable systems. :)
20090204 22:05:25< Sirp> (and is a good language for that)
20090204 22:05:35< boucman> ok, let's stop the flame there ;)
20090204 22:06:20< grzywacz> I wrote a Snake in Ada and SDL.
20090204 22:06:21< grzywacz> ;-)
20090204 22:06:30< grzywacz> Very reliable little game.
20090204 22:07:05< boucman> my most advanced ada program read Ada source code, extracted type definitions, and provided a set of data of that type to do automated unit testing
20090204 22:07:22< boucman> my dev friends hated me for that ;p
20090204 22:09:38< silene> Sirp: not exactly (or at least not in my line of work), the avionics are simply developed in C, Scade, or other languages like that; however the compilers/code generators are written in ada, since you can't afford that what is running is different from what was coded
20090204 22:11:13< boucman> silene: who do you work for ??
20090204 22:11:36 * boucman is also french and also works in avionics
20090204 22:12:37< Sirp> silene: I think that C is a good language for it too, if you know what you're doing :)
20090204 22:13:07< boucman> Sirp: the second condition is more constraining than most people think :P
20090204 22:13:09< silene> boucman: i'm from inria, but i currently have a contract running with airbus, dassault, and sagem, to help them with code certiification
20090204 22:13:17< boucman> ok
20090204 22:13:29< boucman> coding rules, or formal review
20090204 22:13:36 * boucman works for Thales
20090204 22:13:42 * loonycyborg wonders whether Haskell can replace Ada for such jobs..
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20090204 22:16:12< silene> loonycyborg: probably not, i don't think there are sufficiently wealthy people behind haskell to have it certified
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20090204 22:18:59< loonycyborg> I mean technically :)
20090204 22:21:26< thespaceinvader> ESR_: there?
20090204 22:24:01-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090204 22:24:54< Ivanovic> okay, regarding the bus schedule we are lucky for saturday and sunday
20090204 22:25:20< Ivanovic> the bus will leave from "de brockere" every ten mins on saturday and every 20mins on sunday and needs ~30mins to ulb
20090204 22:28:31< Sirp> Ada is a language designed, imo, not to be too 'powerful', but rather to be very clear and readable. It uses only the simplest of symbols, preferring words for most things.
20090204 22:28:38< Sirp> Haskell on the other hand....is rather different. :)
20090204 22:29:50< boucman> Sirp: I would add that it was designed to catch as much mistakes as possible at compile time, the price being a more verbous and constraining language at development time
20090204 22:31:10< Ivanovic> haskell was clearly designed to torture poor students!
20090204 22:31:16< boucman> :P
20090204 22:31:35< Ivanovic> (combined with a really bad prof in that class...)
20090204 22:32:34< Sirp> Haskell is a nice language, but it's a "clever" one.
20090204 22:32:53< loonycyborg> Haskell works very well for obfuscated programs, since you can overload symbols like $ to be operators :P
20090204 22:33:27< grzywacz> lol
20090204 22:33:37< grzywacz> this is sad
20090204 22:34:54< Ivanovic> let's say it this way: it is easy to write completely unreadable haskell code
20090204 22:35:10< Ivanovic> easier to do so than to write unreadable code in c++
20090204 22:35:29< Ivanovic> (just use tabs for indention instead of spaces every now and then and it can get hell...)
20090204 22:36:03< silene> haskell was created on a misunderstanding: they thought people were interested in pure data structures while they are only interested in (semi-) persistent data structures; this makes the language more complicated than actually needed
20090204 22:46:17< grzywacz> Hrmpf. `git svn rebase` warned me about some added white spaces. I wonder if it will butcher my commit when pushed to svn. ;)
20090204 22:46:54< loonycyborg> No. It won't.
20090204 22:47:20< grzywacz> Ok. 
20090204 22:47:25< loonycyborg> I'm getting those too. No breakage so far AFAICT
20090204 22:47:38< grzywacz> It was the first time I saw it.
20090204 22:48:47< CIA-70> grzywacz * r32608 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 3 dirs): 
20090204 22:48:47< CIA-70> Optimized handling of friends/ignores lists.
20090204 22:48:47< CIA-70> These are now backed by a set, instead of doing string operations on
20090204 22:48:47< CIA-70> preferences. This resolves the problem of very high CPU usage
20090204 22:48:47< CIA-70> in multiplayer lobby when friend/ignore lists are long.
20090204 22:48:50< CIA-70> grzywacz * r32609 /trunk/changelog: Updated changelog.
20090204 22:49:21-!- Espreon [n=espreon@c-76-117-239-33.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090204 22:50:18< Ivanovic> neat
20090204 22:50:36< Ivanovic> so now Soliton should see no more "man, is load high in the lobby" situations for the moment?
20090204 22:51:01< grzywacz> Well, in general. Not for the moment.
20090204 22:51:16< grzywacz> And he has a patch for 1.4, which I'm not going to commit for obvious reasons.
20090204 22:51:22-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@66-189-14-42.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090204 22:51:45< grzywacz> Ivanovic, a side effect is that there can now be no duplicated on those lists.
20090204 22:51:50< grzywacz> *duplicates
20090204 23:04:24-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has quit ["GO, GET TO THE CHOPPAH!!!"]
20090204 23:08:25< Ivanovic> okay, time to head off to bed
20090204 23:08:37< Ivanovic> when CIB joins, please tell him to check his mails and to reply to my mail
20090204 23:09:02< Ivanovic> when DK joins, remind him to upload a photo of himself, so that i got a chance to recognize him in dortmund when picking him up
20090204 23:10:47< silene> grzywacz: it doesn't really matter for wesnoth; but if you really wanted to write a generic join function, it should have taken iterators as arguments, not a container
20090204 23:11:35< grzywacz> silene, sure.
20090204 23:11:55< silene> for instance, it would allow to join strings that verify a given criteria
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20090204 23:18:54< Shadow_Master> hi boucman 
20090204 23:19:01< boucman> hey 
20090204 23:19:32< Shadow_Master> boucman: any luck with the hit-sounds not working bug?
20090204 23:19:52< Shadow_Master> I just realized that it's not just the sounds. The entire defense animations are not playing in 1.5.9 and trunk (as of last night, now updating my tree)
20090204 23:19:52< boucman> bug number ?
20090204 23:20:03< boucman> hmm
20090204 23:20:04< Shadow_Master> no bug yet, I wanted to check with you if the cause was trivial
20090204 23:20:24< Shadow_Master> I suspect it has to do with the changes since you fixed the red-tint issue
20090204 23:20:36< Shadow_Master> since in 1.5.8 they work
20090204 23:20:48< boucman> well, I tested before commiting that one
20090204 23:21:20< boucman> ok, to answer your original question, I hadn't heared before right now, and will probably won't have time to fix before FOSDEM
20090204 23:21:33-!- ikarius [n=ross@71-6-95-123.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090204 23:21:34< Shadow_Master> noticed. though I left you a message in yesterday's logs
20090204 23:21:38< boucman> does it work for the "wolf" monster unit ?
20090204 23:21:50< boucman> Shadow_Master: I don't read the log, usually
20090204 23:22:00< Shadow_Master> ow.
20090204 23:22:30< Shadow_Master> boucman: I'd try with a more elaborate unit
20090204 23:22:45< Shadow_Master> e.g. Death Knight, it has a well noticeable defense animation (if it worked in 1.5.9+ that is)
20090204 23:23:16< boucman> ok, if it doesn't work with units with "real anims" but does work for simple anims that's a big clue
20090204 23:23:37< Shadow_Master> em it doesn't work with the wolf either - assuming it has a defense anim
20090204 23:23:38< boucman> i'm sumprised it "never works" 
20090204 23:24:16< Shadow_Master> wesbot: 32414
20090204 23:24:19< Shadow_Master> wesbot: log 32414
20090204 23:24:25< wesbot> boucman * r32414 : sevral fixes to defend anims
20090204 23:24:25< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=32414
20090204 23:25:14< Shadow_Master> I suspect that particular commit is the guilty one, will test after recompiling
20090204 23:25:14< boucman> Shadow_Master: yeah, I tested before commiting, that's why I'm suprised it doesn't work at all
20090204 23:25:16< boucman> ok, thx
20090204 23:25:39< boucman> please open a bug with all your observations/conclusions so I get as much clues as possible when I look into it
20090204 23:26:08< Shadow_Master> k
20090204 23:26:16< boucman> I might have missed some cases when testing but "doesn't work at all" seems weird
20090204 23:26:47< Shadow_Master> this is why git-svn is so useful for me; I don't need the internet to bisect :)
20090204 23:35:06< Shadow_Master> the best example would be the Elvish Shyde now that I think of it, since she should display that spherical aura
20090204 23:36:46< Shadow_Master> boucman: confirmed; r32414 is the one to blame
20090204 23:36:52< boucman> k
20090204 23:36:58< Shadow_Master> I'll file a bug later
20090204 23:40:09< Shadow_Master> assuming I don't fix it before :P
20090204 23:41:51< boucman> hehe
20090204 23:42:00< boucman> good luck, knowing the area it's in :P
20090204 23:43:13< CIA-70> fendrin * r32610 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/utils/macros.cfg: fixed bug #12912
20090204 23:45:06< CIA-70> torangan * r32611 /trunk/ (5 files in 5 dirs): swedish translation update
20090204 23:45:11-!- Dragonking [n=dk@dedikerad/dragonking] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090204 23:46:04-!- thespaceinvader_ [n=chatzill@91.108.148.190] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090204 23:46:22< Shadow_Master> it would be nice if g.w.o could tell show me a single translation's per-domain statistics
20090204 23:46:23-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@91.108.128.67] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
20090204 23:46:26< Shadow_Master> s/tell//
20090204 23:46:29-!- thespaceinvader_ is now known as thespaceinvader
20090204 23:47:28< Shadow_Master> it would be nice if I could have figured it out without asking.
20090204 23:51:56< boucman> night all
20090204 23:51:59-!- boucman [n=rosen@140.117.71-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090204 23:54:56< CIA-70> shadowmaster * r32612 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth-nr/es.po wesnoth-thot/es.po wesnoth-trow/es.po): Spanish translation update.
--- Log closed Thu Feb 05 00:00:31 2009