--- Log opened Fri Feb 27 00:00:45 2009
20090227 00:02:38-!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@wesnoth/developer/sapient] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090227 00:08:09< Sapient> forums being worked on currently?
20090227 00:08:32< Turuk_> sure
20090227 00:08:35-!- nital is now known as nital_away
20090227 00:09:26< Sapient> you know who is?
20090227 00:09:50< Turuk_> Shadow_Master is updating the boards from 3.0.3 to 3.0.4
20090227 00:11:04-!- Dragonking [n=dk@wesnoth/developer/dragonking] has quit []
20090227 00:11:55< Sapient> I see...
20090227 00:12:03< Sapient> can anyone here answer a GPL question?
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20090227 00:19:17< AI0867> Sapient: maybe I can
20090227 00:19:39< Sapient> uh.. nevermind. I found my answer in #fsf
20090227 00:19:45< Sapient> thanks, though ;)
20090227 00:19:45< AI0867> k
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20090227 01:09:26< Soliton> Shadow_Master: so what's the problem?
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--- Log opened Fri Feb 27 01:48:28 2009
20090227 01:48:28-!- lobby [n=wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090227 01:48:36< alink> not sure why someone added that, but probably not a bad thing
20090227 01:49:10< alink> because of the dialog, the cancel/undo etc, we don't want to allow to start other actions
20090227 01:49:32< alink> i am just not happy that it works differently that normal move
20090227 01:49:35< Soliton> well, lobby's back
20090227 01:49:54< Soliton> and the mp server seems back up as well.
20090227 01:50:05< alink> otoh normal move is more casual, it make sense to allow the user to multi-tasking more there
20090227 01:50:42< Soliton> looks like the server rebooted for some reason.
20090227 01:50:43< Turuk> all the top links are back on the website as well
20090227 01:50:43< alink> Soliton: mainpage and wiki too
20090227 01:54:24< Soliton> nothing interesting in the logs.
20090227 01:55:14< alink> ilor: i think we will need to simplify the drag&drop code a little, i suspect that false release click are sometimes triggered and only blocked by other control flags (most of the times but that's a door for bug)
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20090227 01:57:17 * alink is a bit worried that each time he hunts a bug for the RC he find other bugs on his way :-/
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20090227 03:37:13< Shadow_Master_> Ivanovic: things aren't good here.
20090227 03:37:24< Shadow_Master_> I had to cut the energy from most of the house
20090227 03:45:17< noy> Shadow_Master: what does that mean?
20090227 03:45:40< noy> brownouts?
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20090227 03:57:28< Turuk> Hm
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20090227 04:13:23< Shadow_Master> why do you say the server is completely down now? um..
20090227 04:13:35< Shadow_Master> wiki fworks fine.
20090227 04:13:40< Turuk> Read the rest of the logs
20090227 04:13:44< Turuk> It was earlier, it came back
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20090227 05:25:52< happygrue> Sirp_ second game starting
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20090227 05:56:32< Shadow_Master> Rhonda: re "pling": never mind
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20090227 06:14:23< Shadow_Master> uhm,  I see sleepless people.
20090227 06:17:55-!- Shadow_Master_ [n=imorelle@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit ["int main(int,char**){return EWUDBNICE;}"]
20090227 06:18:57< Shadow_Master> and nobody has yet determined with is that pesky IRSeekBot here? Those are known to have joined channels without prior request in the past.
20090227 06:20:01< Shadow_Master> s/with/why/
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20090227 06:32:32< zookeeper> so what's the deal with missing forum posts?
20090227 06:33:06< zookeeper> should i expect there to be any?
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20090227 06:33:36< Shadow_Master> no.
20090227 06:34:27< zookeeper> ok, great
20090227 06:41:26< CIA-70> esr * r33120 /trunk/data/tools/wmlflip: This version can full transform .cfg files.
20090227 06:43:58< esr> zookeeper: I'm aboyrt tp put into production a tool that can do X,Y coordinate transforms on all macros that use them.  The immediate application is to address bug #13026, but the logic may have other applications down the road -- resizing maps, that sort of thing.
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20090227 06:50:18< zookeeper> esr, eh, good luck with that then.
20090227 06:52:19 * Shadow_Master should be gone to sleep 3 hours ago, bye.
20090227 06:52:51< Shadow_Master> * have.
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20090227 07:14:41< zookeeper> i'm gonna unsticky this, any objections? http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=10518
20090227 07:16:06< Soliton> sounds good. not something that is going to happen often anyway.
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20090227 08:36:05< dfranke> I'm slightly confused by this part of the description of CampaignServerWML:
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20090227 08:36:07< dfranke> contents: the content of the file (binary data). This data should have no zero bytes. A byte with the code of 1 is an escape byte. The next byte will be data, but its value should be reduced by 1. Normally only byte codes of 0 and 1 are escaped.
20090227 08:36:16< dfranke> So is it null-terminated then?
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20090227 08:45:46< halifix> I wish I had the stamina to argue with Noy for 4 hours
20090227 08:45:54< noy> ?
20090227 08:46:13< halifix> Reading a log from 2/17
20090227 08:46:17< halifix> arguing with zensei
20090227 08:46:23< dfranke> heh
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20090227 08:49:35< halifix> Dice provide luck. All games with dice should be banned!
20090227 08:51:35< zookeeper> looks like that piece of log is gaining in popularity.
20090227 08:52:17< halifix> I love logs. They're great timewasters.
20090227 08:52:36< halifix> And apparently, people idle less here than on #wesnoth?
20090227 08:56:01< zookeeper> usually
20090227 09:04:46< dfranke> is there any command-line utility available to convert textual WML into binary network format?
20090227 09:05:52< noy> ... meh I tire of the arguing too alot. 
20090227 09:06:13< noy> like the need for a response to Darker Dreams' pointless post 
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20090227 09:28:58< Rhonda> Ivanovic: Works for me[tm]
20090227 09:29:32< zookeeper> posted my suggestion for an updated add-on server policy: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24278
20090227 09:30:12< Rhonda> Seem to work for zookeeper, too :)
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20090227 10:22:29< noy> zookeeper: can you look at my post in this thread and tell whether I'm off base?
20090227 10:22:30< noy> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24260
20090227 10:27:23< loonycyborg> What is the proper way to mark one bug to be duplicate of other on gna?
20090227 10:28:32< nital> no line numbers in WML error messages was intentional or just nobody had time to code it?
20090227 10:30:58< nital> there is not much information given in such error, for example: "20090227 10:25:16 error config: Error: invalid string:"
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20090227 10:36:36< ilor> loonycyborg: set status to duplicate, put original bug# as a comment?
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20090227 10:38:14< loonycyborg> I thought as much..
20090227 10:40:42< loonycyborg> https://gna.org/bugs/?13076 <- I'm thinking what to do with this bug.
20090227 10:41:08< loonycyborg> Perhaps it has the same cause as https://gna.org/bugs/?12683
20090227 10:41:19< AI0867> boost looping again?
20090227 10:42:00< AI0867> but it seems that's already fixed in trunk
20090227 10:42:22< loonycyborg> Those bugs refer to 1.4 branch
20090227 10:43:10< loonycyborg> If that was fixed in trunk should I mark it as fixed or as wontfix?
20090227 10:43:47< AI0867> not sure
20090227 10:43:59< AI0867> either way makes sense
20090227 10:44:14< zookeeper> noy, well, i didn't read every line of the first half of his post, but i don't see why you try to pick a fight with him in the first paragraph...i'm sure your description of the balancing is right
20090227 10:44:40< noy> more like I'm curious if I've missed any of his points to refute
20090227 10:44:50< noy> because he's being annoying
20090227 10:46:30< zookeeper> i don't see that.
20090227 10:49:18< voris> I found it tedious.
20090227 10:49:32< voris> I can see calling that annoying I guess. :)
20090227 10:51:08< voris> And I can see his excessive use of scare quotes being a snarky jab.
20090227 10:53:06< Ivanovic> moin
20090227 10:54:54< noy> that it was
20090227 10:57:16< noy> I'm off
20090227 10:57:18< noy> night people
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20090227 11:06:15< CIA-70> ivanovic * r33121 /trunk/ (9 files in 8 dirs): updated Chinese (Simplified) translation
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20090227 11:25:34< voris> From what I can tell, if you eliminate the name key from the [event] tag it will never fire. Is that correct?
20090227 11:26:30< voris> I figured I'd get an error or it would fire as soon as the scenario loaded but so far it looks like it will just never trigger.
20090227 11:28:23< AI0867> yes, it probably won't fire
20090227 11:28:32< AI0867> it's similar to a misnamed tag: it does nothing
20090227 11:28:43< voris> So it would be fair to say it's a mandatory key? :)
20090227 11:29:23< voris> It looks like the rest listed on the reference page are optional but name seems mandatory (assuming your goal is for it to work).
20090227 11:29:59< AI0867> yes
20090227 11:32:17< voris> Cool. Thanks.
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20090227 12:23:42< Ivanovic> zookeeper: this one was not a "won't fix", right? https://gna.org/bugs/?13068
20090227 12:23:47< Ivanovic> regarding the chat yesterday
20090227 12:24:28< zookeeper> Ivanovic, i guess it's won't fix until i fix it ;)
20090227 12:24:44< zookeeper> but meh, i'll change it
20090227 12:24:50< Ivanovic> :)
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20090227 12:50:35< CIA-70> ai0867 * r33122 /trunk/data/tools/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Fix some issues pychecker caught.
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20090227 13:45:02 * voris notes with surprise that the "new turn" event name value doesn't have to be quoted
20090227 13:53:18< zookeeper> key values never need to be quoted.
20090227 13:53:34< voris> Yeah, I see that now. 
20090227 13:53:42< zookeeper> untranslatable ones anyway
20090227 13:53:47< voris> I guess it's safe enough to just read to EOL. :)
20090227 13:54:19< voris> I am often impressed by how forgiving you've made the syntax.
20090227 14:53:01< AI0867__> it has some downsides though
20090227 14:53:54< AI0867__> like with HTML, plenty of people write WML that has meaningless code or code that only works by accident
20090227 14:58:26< voris> heh
20090227 14:58:27< voris> sure.
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20090227 16:03:45< Ivanovic> zookeeper: any idea what the problem could be? https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13077
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20090227 16:13:45< Soliton> dfranke: binaryWML is gone it's all gzip now.
20090227 16:16:01< zookeeper> Ivanovic, sounds like a job for soliton
20090227 16:17:08< zookeeper> proper fix requires a string change though
20090227 16:17:43< zookeeper> around help.cfg:350 and 34
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20090227 16:20:16< CIA-70> esr * r33123 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/07_Elves_last_stand.cfg: Address bug #13026 by fixing the labels (with the new wmlflip tool).
20090227 16:20:31-!- happygrue [n=Wintermu@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090227 16:23:03< esr> Ivanovic: If the string change is OK, I can write the new help text and close the bug.
20090227 16:24:06 * voris just noticed the unconsider attack event trigger.
20090227 16:24:09< voris> Are you telling me I can now taunt people with "Chicken!" messages when they cancel an attack?
20090227 16:24:24< voris> Because that's just funny as hell. :)
20090227 16:27:34< Ivanovic> esr: this stuff should really be listed in the ingame help, so please go on
20090227 16:27:43< esr> Will do.
20090227 16:30:21< esr> I'm gonna mark dfranke's bug about case-sensitive filesystems Wont Fix, basically because if you run a campaign server on one of those (a) you deserve to lose, and (b) we can't fix it anyway.  Question is, where should I document this limitation?  Is there a campaign server manual or wiki page?
20090227 16:31:48< Ivanovic> i don't think there is
20090227 16:33:40< zookeeper> err, how could we not fix it anyway (the case sensitivity case at least)? just check whether the name case/etc-insensitively matches any existing one and don't allow the upload if it does?
20090227 16:34:57< esr> zookeeper: The real can't fix is the DOS aliasing.
20090227 16:35:36< voris> Which way is he complaining? That a server is or is not case sensitive?
20090227 16:35:44< voris> I assume this is running on a windows box?
20090227 16:36:13< voris> Ah you said DOS so must be. :)
20090227 16:36:21< esr> voris: if the FS is case-senstive, or has DOS aliasing, under some circumstances uploaders can clobber each others' files.  
20090227 16:36:50< esr> I don't thank dfranke is on Windows, he's just being a good security auditor.
20090227 16:37:12< esr> But the correct answer is "Don't do that!".
20090227 16:38:16< esr> Using Windows for servers is generically a crappy idea.  This bug ain't Wesnoth-specific.
20090227 16:39:22< voris> I seem to remember the issue being the reverse of what you seem to be indicating when I went through Perforce training. Namely, people would have submissions like 'hello' and 'Hello' and be fine until the windows guys came online at which point they couldn't tell the difference. So it was the case *in*sensitive people that were the problem.
20090227 16:39:40< voris> But yeah, totally not a wesnoth issue, regardless.
20090227 16:40:14< zookeeper> esr, doesn't the dos aliasing only occur with really old windows versions, whereas the case sensitivity thing occurs still with at least xp?
20090227 16:40:15-!- stikonas [n=stikonas@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090227 16:40:55< esr> voris: In both cases it's Windows that's brain-danmaged, e.g. throwing away information about the user's intentions.
20090227 16:41:01< voris> Oh, and the DOS aliasing. I see how that would totally clobber left and right.
20090227 16:41:13< voris> And yeah, that shouldn't be an issue very much.
20090227 16:41:34< esr> zookeeper: I don't keep tack.  Any Windows looks like the pitt of Hell to me.
20090227 16:41:34< voris> I can't remember the last time I was on a windows box that wanted to do that.
20090227 16:42:00< voris> I think even win2k was free of that.
20090227 16:42:07< voris> so probably 95 or earlier to find that.
20090227 16:42:27< Soliton> do applications have to care for that at all?
20090227 16:42:41< Soliton> that seems very unlikely to me.
20090227 16:42:55< Soliton> it's got to be transparent or it breaks everything.
20090227 16:43:52< esr> zookeeper: Where the heck are the new Goblin traits defined?  
20090227 16:44:03< zookeeper> esr, traits.cfg?
20090227 16:44:27< esr> Hm, grep didn't find it.  Looking...
20090227 16:46:21-!- shadowmaster [n=imorelle@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090227 16:47:07< Shadow_Master> hi
20090227 16:52:52< Shadow_Master> out of curiosity: who is Cameron Morland and what are his contributions?
20090227 16:55:01< voris> Soliton: I seem to remember it being possible to poorly design file listings to make it matter. But no, properly coded stuff doesn't care about it in anything from this millenia.
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20090227 16:59:57< Shadow_Master> esr: is it clearly stated anywhere that campaignd on Windows is an unsupported combination?
20090227 17:00:27< stikonas> Ivanovic: I will try to fix bug #13051. It is assigned to you now.
20090227 17:00:45< esr> Shadow_Master: I dunno.  Ivanovic sais the doesn't know where campaignd is documented at all.
20090227 17:00:58< esr> s/sais the/says he/
20090227 17:01:05< Shadow_Master> I mean, it's probably obvious to you and me, but I'm not so sure about others. I remember to have read someone asking on othe forums how ot run it in Windows
20090227 17:01:29< Ivanovic> stikonas: feel free to do so
20090227 17:01:33< Shadow_Master> campaignd's WML protocol is documented in some wiki pages but yeah, I don't know of any documentation of the program itself.
20090227 17:02:01< voris> Well we definitely had an issue with it being unintuitive to perforce users that running it on unix would be better for all. :)
20090227 17:02:10< Shadow_Master> that is, of all the programs we have only wesnoth and wesnothd have man pages
20090227 17:02:19< voris> For that very clobber reason.
20090227 17:03:33< Ivanovic> Shadow_Master: correct
20090227 17:03:54< Ivanovic> since those are the only progs we ever bothered to create documentation for
20090227 17:04:03< Ivanovic> that is: the "external" editor had a manpage, too
20090227 17:04:11< esr> Maybe I sho=uld write a campaignd man page, then.
20090227 17:04:36< Ivanovic> esr: i think there is not even an official package of campaignd in debian
20090227 17:04:47< Ivanovic> there is almost noone who has it, so there is no real demand for it
20090227 17:05:06< Ivanovic> (and the manpage would not solve the "uhm, non case sensitive file systems are problematic"
20090227 17:05:29< Ivanovic> beside this i don't think it can be compiled on windows anyway, not 100% sure though
20090227 17:05:56< Shadow_Master> and introducing man pages at this point breaks the string freeze.
20090227 17:06:13< esr> Still, we probably ought to have a man page in the distro.  If only for completenesses's sake.  After string freeze, if that's an issue.
20090227 17:06:33< Ivanovic> delay it since it is of no real importance at alll
20090227 17:06:55< voris> Or someone could just make a wiki stub saying "don't run this on windows, mkay?"
20090227 17:06:59< Shadow_Master> there are also cutter (?), exploder (?) and test (the regression test suite)
20090227 17:07:15< Soliton> what distro packages campaignd?
20090227 17:07:22< Ivanovic> Soliton: *none*
20090227 17:07:31< Soliton> that's what i thought.
20090227 17:07:31< Ivanovic> he means distribution of our own tarball
20090227 17:07:43< Shadow_Master> I think anyone running test would read the Boost::test documentation for commandline reference anyway. And I still have to find anyone who knows what cuttern and exploder do and how
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20090227 17:11:59< CIA-70> esr * r33124 /trunk/data/ (core/help.cfg tools/wesnoth/wmltools.py): Documentation tweaks and fixes. Addresses bug #13077.
20090227 17:13:19< esr> Shadow_Master: cutter and exploder were barely remembered by anyone even when I joined two years ago.
20090227 17:13:37< Ivanovic> *maybe* freim has an idea about this stuff
20090227 17:13:54< Ivanovic> since i think it is something for "terrain stuff" but probably by now really deprecated
20090227 17:14:11< Shadow_Master> esr: I know I have asked about a thousand times what they do/how to use them since 2007.
20090227 17:14:29< Shadow_Master> s/know/know./
20090227 17:14:55< esr> Have you tried searching the wiki? I have dim memories of seeing some page about that. 
20090227 17:16:02< stikonas> Ivanovic: I have attached a patch: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13051
20090227 17:17:10< Shadow_Master> uhm, the [map] code is outdated again.
20090227 17:17:13< Ivanovic> stikonas: looks sane to me
20090227 17:17:29< Ivanovic> Shadow_Master: so you had to rollback the update?
20090227 17:17:34< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: yes
20090227 17:17:59< Shadow_Master> completely unrelated: the [map] PHP code is outdated again and won't recognize two hexes in the Isar's cross map
20090227 17:18:23< esr> Ivanovic: I can roll in that patch if you like.
20090227 17:18:38< Ivanovic> esr: feel free to do so
20090227 17:18:43< Ivanovic> looks good to me
20090227 17:20:04< esr> Patch appluied cleanly, committing...
20090227 17:20:50< CIA-70> esr * r33125 /trunk/CMakeLists.txt: stikonas's fix for bug #13051.
20090227 17:21:14< esr> Yay!  bug list is down to 50!
20090227 17:21:31< Shadow_Master> damn WesnothMap.php is ugly :-D
20090227 17:22:15< Shadow_Master> in particular it will not work properly now that we have arbitrary overlay terrains in the game
20090227 17:22:21< esr> zookeeper: I see 4 UtBS bugs, and fendrin isn't around much.  Are therse on your list?
20090227 17:22:42-!- fabi [n=fabi@g230225077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090227 17:22:56< esr> Aha. speak of the devil...
20090227 17:23:01< Shadow_Master> case '0': $image = 'keep-tile-p0.png'; $terrain = 'Player 10 - '.$terrain;break; // Player start positions.
20090227 17:23:06< Shadow_Master> wow?
20090227 17:23:25< esr> fabi: I fixed the LoW bug with reversed tlabels.  Wrote a new wmlflip to do it.
20090227 17:23:28< Shadow_Master> does the game even support such a thing?
20090227 17:23:36< esr> wmlflip tool, I mean.
20090227 17:24:01< fabi> esr: cool, I have a patch pending from santi which did it manual.
20090227 17:24:36< fabi> esr: it screamed for a scripted solution.
20090227 17:24:53< Shadow_Master> esr: can your tool resize maps already?
20090227 17:25:14< Shadow_Master> *help resize
20090227 17:26:07< esr> It's got one now.  Actually, the wmlflip framework could be used to do arbitary matrix transformations on (X, Y) macro arguments - it builds a cross-refernce for it knows foer certain which ones those are by looking at formals.
20090227 17:26:18< esr> s/for it/so it/
20090227 17:26:23< fabi> I friend of mine is disabled with his eyes. He was able to play the game after zooming into the map but I failed to find a config for increase the font size.
20090227 17:26:48< esr> Shadow_Master: Tell me what the matrix transform is - seriously.
20090227 17:27:05< Shadow_Master> I don't handle that area :-/
20090227 17:27:07< zookeeper> Shadow_Master, maybe the new forests?
20090227 17:27:22< zookeeper> ah, right.
20090227 17:27:29< Shadow_Master> zookeeper: propably, I don't bother to see the actual map. 
20090227 17:27:41< Shadow_Master> All I know is that it has a pretty outdated, hardcoded list of terrain codes.
20090227 17:28:27< zookeeper> urgh :|
20090227 17:28:28< Shadow_Master> it should probably be replaced with regular expressions to support the 1.5.x arbitrary overlays, but then it'd have to mess with generating the overlaid hex icons at runtime
20090227 17:28:31< esr> fabi: Has #12912 	(UtBS: Error while placing unit) gotten a test yet?  It would be nice to be able to move that to Fixed.
20090227 17:28:51< zookeeper> Shadow_Master, or just use the icon of the overlay terrain?
20090227 17:29:10< zookeeper> that's usually what counts gameplay-wise anyway
20090227 17:29:35< Shadow_Master> right, in mainline.
20090227 17:29:42< fabi> esr: I have time now. Let's see.
20090227 17:32:02< Shadow_Master> wesbot: seen sib0
20090227 17:32:02< wesbot> Shadow_Master: Sorry, I don't know of sib0.
20090227 17:32:04< Shadow_Master> wesbot: seen cib0
20090227 17:32:04< wesbot> Shadow_Master: The person with the nick cib0 last spoke 4d 4h ago.  3d 21h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth with the message: Remote closed the connection
20090227 17:32:06< stikonas> esr: can you also apply file #5356 from https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13051
20090227 17:32:10< Shadow_Master> wesbot: seen cib0_
20090227 17:32:10< wesbot> Shadow_Master: Sorry, I don't know of cib0_.
20090227 17:32:34< CIA-70> soliton * r33126 /trunk/ (10 files in 4 dirs): * Removed last binaryWML references by making the save_index gzip compressed. (We can still receive binaryWML via the network.)
20090227 17:32:59< Shadow_Master> at least I know cib0 was the last maintainer (sort of) of WesnothMap.php (http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=266429#p266429). Perhaps I can convince him to update it again ;-)
20090227 17:33:55< zookeeper> Shadow_Master, yes, in mainline. is there a need for more than that? not really.
20090227 17:35:04< Soliton> (save_index went from 9MB to 5KB for me with the last commit.)
20090227 17:45:04< esr> stikonas: Wha does that actually do?  I don't see a difference.
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20090227 17:46:21< esr> stikonas: Second patch failed.
20090227 17:46:55< stikonas> esr: it should do the same to doc/manual as the first patch was to data/
20090227 17:47:49< stikonas> esr: are you sure that you are not applying the same file
20090227 17:48:06< esr> Checking...
20090227 17:48:54< esr> cmake_manual_source_permissions.diff?
20090227 17:49:01< stikonas> esr: yes
20090227 17:49:08< esr> That failed
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20090227 17:50:58< stikonas> esr: strange, it applies to me, and I have the latest trunk
20090227 17:51:22< esr> I'm thinking maybe it got damages it transmission.
20090227 17:53:08< stikonas> esr: patch only adds USE_SOURCE_PERMISSIONS to doc/manual/CMakeLists.txt:58
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20090227 17:58:59< esr> Ah, I see the problem.
20090227 18:01:10< esr> Or maybe not.  Looks like that second patch is already applied.
20090227 18:02:33< stikonas> It is not applied in trunk, maybe it is applied in your local copy.
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20090227 18:03:11< fabi> Shadow_Master: Was it you who suggested to remove the format attribute in [set_variable] in the near future?
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20090227 18:06:04< CIA-70> soliton * r33127 /trunk/ (changelog src/campaign_server/campaign_server.cpp): ignore case on add-on (file)names; fixed bug #13080
20090227 18:07:36< Soliton> zookeeper: so are author and version fields mandatory and addons should be rejected without them?
20090227 18:08:26< Soliton> oh and title and description.
20090227 18:09:49< Soliton> Ivanovic: with my last commit we need to take care on the next campaignd update to wipe the addon server or do some conversion on existing addons.
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20090227 18:17:38< CIA-70> fendrin * r33128 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/ (scenarios/02_Across_the_Harsh_Sands.cfg utils/macros.cfg): 
20090227 18:17:38< CIA-70> UtbS 2: Made the Ogre Ambush placing the ogres at random locations.
20090227 18:17:38< CIA-70> This is part of bug #12912
20090227 18:18:53< fabi> esr: 12912 is fixed and closed.
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20090227 18:43:23< freim> esr: I've used cutter and exploder a long time ago
20090227 18:44:07< freim> esr: if I remember correctly it was used for drawing fx castles into a template and then cut into the correct tiles
20090227 18:45:57< freim> as gimp plugins that is
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20090227 18:55:11< freim> I guess it was Shadow_Master who wonder about them
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20090227 19:23:25< Mordante> hi
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20090227 19:31:27< Mordante> Shadow_Master I asked you about the addon bug since you made some changes in that area, but does it ring a bell?
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20090227 19:48:25< CIA-70> mordante * r33129 /trunk/src/ (menu_events.cpp replay.cpp replay.hpp): 
20090227 19:48:25< CIA-70> Remove an unused parameter in add_chat_log_entry.
20090227 19:48:25< CIA-70> Added parameter names in the header and cleaned the fallout of the removed
20090227 19:48:25< CIA-70> parameter.
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20090227 20:22:01< zookeeper> Soliton, well, IMO yes. it's not like there's any reason not to provide them, and it's annoying when people don't.
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20090227 20:31:41< CIA-70> fendrin * r33130 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/03_Stirring_in_the_Night.cfg: UtbS 3: Fixed bug #13057 by not removing a variable that is still needed.
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20090227 20:42:44< fabi> zookeeper: I can't reproduce bug #13068 .Did you already fix it?
20090227 20:43:51< Mordante> esr around?
20090227 20:55:31< zookeeper> fabi, no, but i haven't tested it myself either
20090227 20:56:20< fabi> I don't see it being a bug anyway. Would leave it "Wont fix" as esr suggested.
20090227 21:05:11< esr> Mordante: I'm here, what's up?
20090227 21:06:06< Mordante> esr I had a look at wmlflip and was wondering whether it would be useful to also use it to do movement transformations
20090227 21:06:25< Mordante> eg adding 3 rows at row 12
20090227 21:06:32< esr> Mordante: Possibly.  What's "movement transformation"?
20090227 21:06:46< Mordante> eg adding 3 rows at row 12
20090227 21:06:56< esr> Oh, I see.  Splicing stuff into the middle of a map?
20090227 21:07:19< Mordante> yes (or at the top)
20090227 21:08:14< esr> At the top would be easy.  I could add a "translation" option to displace all coordinates by fixed offsets easily enough.
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20090227 21:09:58< Mordante> splicing also shouldn't be to hard: if (y > start_row) y += inserted_rows
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20090227 21:10:53< esr> Mordante: Agreed.  Do you actually neec these things or are you speculating?
20090227 21:11:35< Mordante> speculating, I just see a highly specific tool for one map transformation and start to wonder about other map transformations
20090227 21:12:50-!- fendrin is now known as fabi
20090227 21:13:14< esr> Mordante: Well, thw ay I've written it, only one smnall and isolated piece of the code depends on the transform. The rest just sees a given source-locatio n to target-location trabsform and doesn't care how it's computed or specified.
20090227 21:14:04< esr> fabi: Should I assign you https://gna.org/bugs/?12983 ?
20090227 21:16:22< fabi> esr: no, I believe it's an engine bug that needs more advanced c++ skill than mine.
20090227 21:23:44-!- Baufo [n=thomas@wesnoth/developer/baufo] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090227 21:25:58< esr> Baufo: Any plans to fix  #12391?
20090227 21:26:41-!- fabi is now known as fendrin
20090227 21:27:26< Mordante> esr a nice, well I think my idea might help some campaign creators/maintainers, but of course it
20090227 21:27:37< Mordante> 's  easy for me to say that ;-)
20090227 21:28:54< fendrin> zookeeper: With your permission I am going to take over bug bug #13068.
20090227 21:28:58< esr> Mordante: Spread the word arount that I'll add capabilities to it for anybody who can describe a function mapping (X, Y) pairs to new (X, Y) pairs.
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20090227 21:30:02< esr> fendrin: I think I assigned him that one.  I'm pretty sure he won't mind if you fix it.
20090227 21:30:43< fendrin> okay
20090227 21:33:05< Ivanovic> boucman: you already applied https://gna.org/patch/?1124 correct?
20090227 21:33:23< Ivanovic> you just forgot to mention the patch # in the message and to mark it done
20090227 21:33:31< Ivanovic> or is anything about this one still open?
20090227 21:34:02< zookeeper> fendrin, sure, feel free to.
20090227 21:35:12< Mordante> esr :-)
20090227 21:36:55< Baufo> esr, I just checked the server logs and it seems like all exceptions are now caught correctly. I suppose I can mark  bug 12391 fixed and remove the code to catch uncaught user_handler exceptions.
20090227 21:37:09< esr> Baufo: Please do.
20090227 21:37:30 * esr is still trying to get the bug list down to 30.
20090227 21:38:30 * voris sees what bugs he can file quickly
20090227 21:38:51 * esr notes that after the last two weeks this goal no longer looks insane.
20090227 21:39:07 * esr growls at voris
20090227 21:39:15< voris> tee hee
20090227 21:39:17< Ivanovic> esr: you should not growl
20090227 21:39:37< Ivanovic> you should be thankfull, since only found bugs can be smashed easily
20090227 21:39:38< esr> He knows I didn't meab it.
20090227 21:39:41< Ivanovic> making the game better
20090227 21:39:55< Ivanovic> uhm, with your teeth already at his throat?!?
20090227 21:39:57< Ivanovic> ;)
20090227 21:39:59< voris> Yeah mine all seemed easy. You even got to ignore one of them. :)
20090227 21:40:09< voris> And yeah, I knew. :)
20090227 21:41:35 * esr doesn't catch Ivanovic being German very often any more.
20090227 21:42:25< esr> Ivanovic: How comes it you have a Russian patronymic as handle, anyway?
20090227 21:45:56< dfranke> esr: your blog server is drunk today.
20090227 21:46:27< esr> dfranke: I know.  Some fool pushed the big red button at the ibiblio datacenter.
20090227 21:46:54< esr> The guy that runs the place is a friend; heard it straight from him.
20090227 21:53:31< fendrin> anyone knows how the filter_vision works? There is no wiki entry for it.
20090227 21:53:52< zookeeper> there is
20090227 21:54:00< zookeeper> SUF
20090227 21:54:03< fendrin> zookeeper: please point me to it.
20090227 21:54:15< fendrin> SUF?
20090227 21:54:22-!- stikonas [n=stikonas@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090227 21:54:29< zookeeper> http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/StandardUnitFilter
20090227 21:55:06< fendrin> ah okay, the menu isn't uptodate
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20090227 21:55:37< esr> If there's anyone her who knows MP well, it would be good to test  #11114 and  #11105 so we can (hopefully) move them to Fixed.
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20090227 22:08:53< Soliton> Rhuvaen made a test campaign for that stuff. not sure where it is though.
20090227 22:09:39< Soliton> zookeeper: ok, i'll enforce that then.
20090227 22:11:44< zookeeper> cool
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20090227 22:23:11< Sirp> gee, we used to get around 5000 visits/day to wesnoth.org, but now we've had two straight weeks of over 6000 visits every day. I wonder if this is a temporary thing, or a sign of growth 
20090227 22:23:24< Ivanovic> no idea
20090227 22:23:25< Sirp> hopefully we'll also experience a pretty big spike after 1.6 is released.
20090227 22:23:35< Mordante> I hope so too
20090227 22:24:21< Sirp> we certainly *need* the growth. Our rate of return on ads has continued to dwindle.
20090227 22:25:25< Mordante> how bad is it?
20090227 22:27:22< voris> Oh shit, who do you use for ads?
20090227 22:27:38< voris> I should unblock that for wesnoth.org :)
20090227 22:27:55< dfranke> heh, I should whitelist it as well.
20090227 22:28:02< dfranke> I didn't even know we *had* ads.
20090227 22:28:09< voris> Me either.
20090227 22:29:35< dfranke> do they pay per click or per exposure?
20090227 22:29:53< Sirp> dfranke: per click
20090227 22:30:02< voris> oh
20090227 22:30:09< Sirp> Mordante: we're now at about $130/month, and our server costs are about $160/month
20090227 22:30:33< voris> Well I've got adblock turned off for awhile so I'll click through when I notice it. :)
20090227 22:30:34< loonycyborg> Sirp: Why does rate of return dwindle? Are ads worth less now?
20090227 22:30:39< Mordante> that's indeed bad
20090227 22:31:06< Sirp> loonycyborg: appreciation of US$ + global recession
20090227 22:31:30< Mordante> of course we have a nice buffer due to gsoc...
20090227 22:31:30< Sirp> many advertisers are in Europe, I think, and the US$ has gone up a lot compared to the Euro
20090227 22:31:53< Sirp> Mordante: oh certainly, we still have plenty of cash in hand, and if worst came to worst, I'd float Wesnoth for a while.
20090227 22:32:21-!- noy [n=Noy@70.70.128.133] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090227 22:32:35< Mordante> but it would be great if we could live on the ads again
20090227 22:32:38< Sirp> hi noy
20090227 22:32:40< Sirp> Mordante: yes. :)
20090227 22:32:44< noy> hey Sirp 
20090227 22:32:48< zookeeper> we need in-game ads!
20090227 22:32:55< Mordante> getting in gsoc 2009 would also help ;-)
20090227 22:32:57< zookeeper> konrad could have a coke as an idle anim
20090227 22:32:58< Sirp> Mordante: and it could be worse. I mean, ads are covering 75% of our server costs still.
20090227 22:33:16< noy> another great day in the market isn't it?
20090227 22:33:19< Ivanovic> that is not too bad
20090227 22:33:40< Mordante> of course it could be worse, but I would like to have the ads cover 100+%
20090227 22:34:23< voris> Huh, no ads in the forums.
20090227 22:34:39< voris> So all that revenue is from people clicking through off the main page?
20090227 22:34:46< voris> That's far better than I'd have thought.
20090227 22:35:14< fendrin> Is it easy to make the pathfinding algo accesable through wml?
20090227 22:35:43< Sirp> voris: we had ads on the forum for a while but they had a very low click through rate
20090227 22:35:48< Sirp> so they didn't make very much
20090227 22:35:56< voris> Makes sense.
20090227 22:35:59< Sirp> if we want more ads, I'd go for putting two ads on the main page instead of one
20090227 22:36:06< Sirp> but I'd prefer not to do that if we can avoid it
20090227 22:36:30< voris> Google adsense could be humorous on the forums...
20090227 22:36:49< Sirp> voris: it was mildly humorous
20090227 22:37:12< voris> But yeah, I can see clickthrough not really being high there.
20090227 22:37:28< Mordante> I'm off night
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20090227 22:39:33< voris> Ah but it is up at top of wiki
20090227 22:39:50< voris> That's where I spend the other 50% of my time so I'll make sure to click stuff now that I see it. 
20090227 22:41:12< stikonas> wesbot: topic
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20090227 23:08:18< noy> Ivanovic: around?
20090227 23:08:24< Ivanovic> somehow
20090227 23:08:28< Ivanovic> what can i do you for?
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20090227 23:13:42< zookeeper> esr, someone screwed up the wesnoth link in http://www.ibiblio.org/collection/collection.php?primary=9 :p
20090227 23:14:07< zookeeper> (no, i don't really care to find out where i should really report that)
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--- Log closed Sat Feb 28 00:00:19 2009