--- Log opened Fri Mar 06 00:00:49 2009
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20090306 00:14:23< Ivanovic> looks like the old time people are returning
20090306 00:14:39< Ivanovic> silene back, darth fool posting again on the ml, who will be next?
20090306 00:14:52< boucman> :)
20090306 00:14:56< Turuk> scott? :P
20090306 00:14:59< boucman> miya ?
20090306 00:15:01< Dragonking> Hope someone interested in AI ;p
20090306 00:15:06< Ivanovic> cedric?
20090306 00:15:12< CIA-70> dragonking * r33362 /trunk/src/formula_ai.cpp: Bugfix, new formula function: simplest_path, improved shortest_path function
20090306 00:15:38< Dragonking> boucman: I know, wiki ;p
20090306 00:16:25< Dragonking> Elvish_Pillage2: You have your 'simplest_path' function now, and you can now specify unit location as 3rd parameter to check any path ;)
20090306 00:16:54< Ivanovic> simplest is a new word, Dragonking
20090306 00:17:06< Dragonking> Not translatable.
20090306 00:17:08< Ivanovic> it would be "most simple" or somrthing like this
20090306 00:17:46< Dragonking> Ivanovic: Seriouslt, can't it be 'simplest' ?
20090306 00:17:50< Dragonking> Seriously even
20090306 00:18:32< Dragonking> I could make it "simple_path" too
20090306 00:20:58< Dragonking> Ivanovic: So? :)
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20090306 00:23:46< Ivanovic> hmm, i have not really found the rules and if "simplest" is really correct english or not (just feels wrong somehow)
20090306 00:24:11< Ivanovic> though "simple_path" does probably describe the situation good
20090306 00:24:15< Dragonking> ok, if you think so, I'll change it to simple_path
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20090306 00:25:36< Ivanovic> okay, simplest really seems to be a valid word in english
20090306 00:25:50< Sirp> Ivanovic: yes it is a word.
20090306 00:26:05< Ivanovic> it sounds so wrong to me...
20090306 00:26:09< Sirp> "the simplest possible solution"
20090306 00:26:25< alink> of course it's a word, it's even the simplest word <:o)
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20090306 00:27:18< Dragonking> Ok, then I'll leave it as it is.
20090306 00:27:53< alink> Dragonking: what is its equivalent in c++ code ?
20090306 00:28:06< alink> emergency_path ?
20090306 00:28:11< Dragonking> Yes
20090306 00:28:21< Dragonking> A bit modified
20090306 00:28:26< alink> ok, then simplest is better
20090306 00:28:36< Dragonking> To take into account if unit can move through the hex.
20090306 00:29:29< alink> si mainly ignore_unit_path
20090306 00:29:34< alink> s/si/so
20090306 00:29:49< alink> s/unit/units
20090306 00:30:55< Dragonking> Well, I did not see that one. :)
20090306 00:31:33< alink> sorry, it's not a c++ path, it's just a flag to some path function
20090306 00:31:42< Dragonking> Ah ok 
20090306 00:33:12< alink> too much of these flags anyways : ignore_zocs, ignore_unit, ignore_defense ...
20090306 00:33:42< Dragonking> I sometimes feel also this way :)
20090306 00:34:29< alink> yeah proably need some pathfinding_parameter type or similar c++ trick to group parameters
20090306 00:34:49< CIA-70> dragonking * r33363 /trunk/src/formula_ai.cpp: Made shortest_path formula function return empty array if destination is unreachable, use simplest_path if you want to get some result no matter what
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20090306 00:46:43< Dragonking> Good night everyone
20090306 00:46:51< alink> gn Dragonking
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20090306 00:47:14< Ivanovic> time for me to head off to bed, too
20090306 00:47:16< Ivanovic> n8
20090306 00:47:24< alink> then gn too Ivanovic
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20090306 01:08:46< alink> loonybot << pair<int,int>(0,0)
20090306 01:08:48< loonybot> {0, 0}
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20090306 01:09:35< alink> loonybot << pair<char,char>(',',',')
20090306 01:09:36< loonybot> {,, ,}
20090306 01:12:35< AI0867> loonybot: replace (',' with (', '
20090306 01:12:37< loonybot> warning: overflow in implicit constant conversion
20090306 01:12:50< AI0867> loonybot << pair<char,char>(', ',',')
20090306 01:12:50< loonybot> Same warning.
20090306 01:12:59< alink> it's a char
20090306 01:13:00< AI0867> right, not a string 
20090306 01:13:41< alink> this more_ostreaming.hpp seems usefull for debugging
20090306 01:16:11< alink> note that our own utils::join() is good too
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20090306 01:18:59< AI0867> loonybot: replace <char, with <char*,
20090306 01:18:59< loonybot> error: no matching function for call to 'pair<char*, char>::pair(int, char)'
20090306 01:19:11< AI0867> eh?
20090306 01:19:43< alink> maybe try with ", "
20090306 01:20:07< alink> (the string)
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20090306 01:20:29< alink> loonybot << pair<char*,char>(", ",',')
20090306 01:20:30< loonybot> warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to 'char*'
20090306 01:21:02< loonycyborg> loonybot << pair<const char*,char>(", ",',')
20090306 01:21:03< loonybot> {, , ,}
20090306 01:21:27< alink> aah, a lot of work, but it's worth it :-)
20090306 01:22:05< alink> but my first  smiley was better
20090306 01:22:08< alink> loonybot << pair<int,int>(0,0)
20090306 01:22:13< loonybot> {0, 0}
20090306 01:27:13< AI0867> loonybot: { char a[] = { 94, 95, 94, 0 }; cout << a; }
20090306 01:27:14< loonybot> ^_^
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20090306 01:31:47< alink> loonybot: { char a[4]; int i(); a[i++]=94;++a[i++]; a[i++]=a[0];a[i]=0; cout << a; }
20090306 01:31:47< loonybot> error: ISO C++ forbids incrementing a pointer of type 'int (*)()'
20090306 01:32:05< alink> meuh, bad ISO C++
20090306 01:32:19< AI0867> loonybot -h
20090306 01:32:20< loonybot> Mini-manual:  http://www.eelis.net/geordi/
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20090306 01:32:27< alink> { char a[4]; int i(); a[i++]=94;a[i++]+=1; a[i++]=a[0];a[i]=0; cout << a; }
20090306 01:32:57< alink>  loonybot:{ char a[4]; int i(); a[i++]=94;a[i++]+=1; a[i++]=a[0];a[i]=0; cout << a; }
20090306 01:32:58< loonybot> error: ISO C++ forbids incrementing a pointer of type 'int (*)()'
20090306 01:33:24< loonycyborg> loonybot: << TYPE_DESC(int (*)())
20090306 01:33:25< loonybot> pointer to a nullary function returning an integer
20090306 01:33:43< alink>  loonybot:{ char a[4]; int i=0; a[i++]=94;a[i++]+=1; a[i++]=a[0];a[i]=0; cout << a; }
20090306 01:33:44< loonybot> ^�^
20090306 01:34:20< alink>  loonybot:{ char a[4]; int i(); a[i++]=94;a[i++]++=a[i]; a[i++]=a[0];a[i]=0; cout << a; }
20090306 01:34:20< loonybot> error: ISO C++ forbids incrementing a pointer of type 'int (*)()'
20090306 01:34:27< AI0867> loonybot: int main(){ goto main; }
20090306 01:34:28< loonybot> error: label 'main' used but not defined
20090306 01:34:34< alink>  loonybot:{ char a[4]; int i=0; a[i++]=94;a[i++]++=a[i]; a[i++]=a[0];a[i]=0; cout << a; }
20090306 01:34:34< loonybot> error: lvalue required as left operand of assignment
20090306 01:34:54< AI0867> loonybot: int main(){ __asm__("jmp main"); }
20090306 01:34:55< loonybot> Undefined behavior detected.
20090306 01:35:00< alink> loonybot:{ char a[4]; int i=0; a[i++]=94;a[i++]=a[i]+1; a[i++]=a[0];a[i]=0; cout << a; }
20090306 01:35:01< loonybot> warning: operation on 'i' may be undefined
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20090306 01:35:42< AI0867> loonybot: -w
20090306 01:35:43< loonybot> error: undefined reference to `main'
20090306 01:35:51< AI0867> loonybot: -w { char a[4]; int i=0; a[i++]=94;a[i++]=a[i]+1; a[i++]=a[0];a[i]=0; cout << a; }
20090306 01:35:52< loonybot> ^w^
20090306 01:36:35< alink> :-(
20090306 01:37:19< AI0867> loonybot: -w { char a[4]; int i=0; a[i++]=94;a[i++]=a[--i]+1; a[(++i)++]=a[0];a[i]=0; cout << a; }
20090306 01:37:20< loonybot> _)_
20090306 01:37:23< AI0867> er
20090306 01:37:31< alink> loonybot: -w { char a[4]; int i=0; a[i++]=94;a[i]=a[i++]+1; a[i++]=a[0];a[i]=0; cout << a; }
20090306 01:37:32< loonybot> ^2^
20090306 01:37:41< alink> lol, it's random
20090306 01:39:06< alink> ok, was fun but my long compilation is ready now
20090306 01:48:33< loonycyborg> Hm.. Regression tests currently produce tons of failed assert.
20090306 01:48:38< loonycyborg> *asserts
20090306 01:48:57< alink> what kind of assert ?
20090306 01:49:37< AI0867> loonybot: -w { char a[4]; char i(0); while(++i<'_')memset(a,i,4);i=sizeof(a)+1;while(i--)a[i]=i!=sizeof(a)*i+(a[i]==a[i+1]; }
20090306 01:49:37< loonybot> error: Unexpected "}" after "[i+1]; ".
20090306 01:49:53< AI0867> loonybot: -w { char a[4]; char i(0); while(++i<'_')memset(a,i,4);i=sizeof(a)+1;while(i--)a[i]=i!=sizeof(a)*i+a[i]==a[i+1]; }
20090306 01:49:54< loonybot>  
20090306 01:50:01< loonycyborg> There's a Boost.Test based regression tests for wesnoth. They're currently failing.
20090306 01:50:11< AI0867> loonybot: -w { char a[4]; char i(0); while(++i<'_')memset(a,i,4);i=sizeof(a)+1;while(i--)a[i]=i!=sizeof(a)*i+a[i]==a[i+1]; cout<<a; }
20090306 01:50:11< loonybot>  
20090306 01:50:15< AI0867> =(
20090306 01:50:41< alink> loonycyborg: any area of wesnoth code in specific ?
20090306 01:51:06< loonycyborg> There seems to be some errors about filesystem.
20090306 01:51:39< AI0867> loonybot: -w { char a[4]; char i(0); while(++i<'_')memset(a,i,4);i=sizeof(a)+1;while(i--)a[i]=(i!=sizeof(a))*i+a[i]==a[i+1]; cout<<a; }
20090306 01:51:39< loonybot> *** stack smashing detected ***: /t terminated [+ 1 discarded line]
20090306 01:51:57< loonycyborg> Which is kinda fitting considering that silene recently made a lot of changes to it.
20090306 01:52:16< AI0867> loonybot: -w { char a[4]; char i(0); while(++i<'_')memset(a,i,4);i=sizeof(a)+1;while(i--)a[i]=(i!=sizeof(a))*i+(a[i]==a[i+1]); cout<<a; }
20090306 01:52:18< loonybot> No change in output.
20090306 01:52:49< alink> depend if these tests worked fine before ;)
20090306 01:53:29< loonycyborg> They were all passing last time I checked. Though it was rather long time ago.
20090306 01:54:35< alink> loonybot << "^_^ <- AI0867, it works" /*use KISS code ;-) */
20090306 01:54:37< loonybot> ^_^ <- AI0867, it works
20090306 01:56:51< alink> loonycyborg: maybe we need some new rule, like all tests must pass before releasing
20090306 01:57:32< alink> Ivanovic seems like a task for the release manager ^
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20090306 02:35:11< Shadow_Master> hi
20090306 02:35:19< alink> hello Shadow_Master
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20090306 03:39:39< Shadow_Master> wesbot: seen silene
20090306 03:39:40< wesbot> Shadow_Master: The person with the nick silene last spoke 20h 48m ago.  20h 48m ago person left:
20090306 03:39:43< Shadow_Master> silene: k, good to know.
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20090306 03:56:43< [Relic]> Hello :)
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20090306 05:43:14< CIA-70> dave * r33364 /trunk/src/ai_move.cpp: make AI 'supporting' other units disabled by default, since it seems to mess up a lot
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20090306 07:22:14< CIA-70> soliton * r33365 /trunk/src/ai_move.cpp: allow the usual truth values
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20090306 08:08:05< YogiHH> anyone: if i mention a bug number in a mail to the mailing list, will it show up on gna?
20090306 08:09:05< Soliton> no.
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20090306 08:44:06< YogiHH> off to work
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20090306 09:42:50< Soliton> spam? http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=343672#p343672
20090306 09:45:06< noy> Soliton: delete but I'm not sure if it is spam
20090306 09:51:18< Soliton> well, if it's spam it should be moved to the mod forum.
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20090306 10:10:46< Ivanovic> moin
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20090306 11:58:57< zancdar> Is there any link to see the buglist or feature request, I want to help wesnoth for some little patches again :)
20090306 11:59:27< Soliton> bugs.wesnoth.org
20090306 12:00:44< zancdar> Sorry I would like to say, something not so difficult :)
20090306 12:02:48< loonycyborg> What's so difficult about bugs.wesnoth.org?
20090306 12:03:59< zancdar> Nothing sorry !
20090306 12:05:03< loonycyborg> But I really wanted to know :)
20090306 12:06:32< loonycyborg> My intention was *not* to chastise you with rhetorical questions..
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20090306 12:11:57< zancdar> My question will be better like that "Is there any task (bug or feature request) not so difficult to do I can do for wesnoth ?"
20090306 12:12:20< zancdar> Last time I submit a patch, they was a page in the wiki called "Easy coding things"
20090306 12:12:23< zookeeper> well, you can take a look at http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/EasyCoding too
20090306 12:12:46< zancdar> Hum Ah it's EasyCoding without things :-'
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20090306 12:13:25< zancdar> But I think I have found something not so difficult https://gna.org/bugs/?13123
20090306 12:14:45< Soliton> the easiest might be to bisect and see when that feature broke.
20090306 12:17:06 * Shadow_Master suggests something between 1.5.10 nd 1.5.11 bu doesn't have time to check
20090306 12:18:02< zancdar> I think I will try to do this "Generic yes/no ok/cancel dialog "
20090306 12:18:24< zancdar> But idk if someone is working on it
20090306 12:19:29 * Ivanovic suggest some change from suokko ages ago (he did some caching stuff changes)
20090306 12:19:50< Soliton> those implemented the feature.
20090306 12:19:52< Ivanovic> other option is silene causing it with the fixes for translations broken due to caching changes by suokko
20090306 12:20:23< Shadow_Master> I fixed the UMC translations.
20090306 12:20:45< Ivanovic> Shadow_Master: not the umc translations
20090306 12:20:47< Shadow_Master> or was there anything else broken about them ?
20090306 12:20:49< Shadow_Master> ah, okay.
20090306 12:21:02< zookeeper> zancdar, better to not work on any GUI-related features.
20090306 12:21:55< Ivanovic> cf https://gna.org/bugs/?12568
20090306 12:22:11< Ivanovic> zookeeper: why not?
20090306 12:22:21< Ivanovic> those are the easy tasks mordante *wants* done
20090306 12:22:35< Ivanovic> he edited the list to specifically list some easier tasks that "anybody could do"
20090306 12:22:49< Shadow_Master> so 13123 may be related to why the loadscreen isn't appearing after instaling/updating add-ons
20090306 12:23:14< Shadow_Master> the game is reloading the cache, but not refreshing it, I take it.
20090306 12:23:27< Ivanovic> might be
20090306 12:23:36< Ivanovic> if silene was here, i would have given this one to him
20090306 12:24:24< zancdar> So I have to listen zookeeper or Ivanovic :D
20090306 12:24:33< zookeeper> Ivanovic, ah, ok. nevermind then.
20090306 12:24:45< zookeeper> sorry ;)
20090306 12:24:54< zancdar> Then I don't think my patch will be released for the 1.6 :-'
20090306 12:25:09< Soliton> that may be indeed.
20090306 12:25:17< zancdar> compiling wesnoth since my last checkout will takes 1 day :-'
20090306 12:25:50< Soliton> uh, then a bisection search is nothing for you i guess.
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20090306 12:25:57< Ivanovic> zancdar: in general it is unlikely that patches adding "new features" (like such a new dialog) will be applied before 1.6
20090306 12:26:18< Ivanovic> so it will be a trunk feature (though most likely checked before and marked "ready to go, once 1.6 is branched off"
20090306 12:26:49< zancdar> Yep I know
20090306 12:27:20< zancdar> I have listen an interview in french of one of wesnoth's dev :-'
20090306 12:27:33< zancdar> I don't remember who he was
20090306 12:27:40< Soliton> probably boucman.
20090306 12:27:51< zancdar> Maybe !
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20090306 15:08:14< boucman> zookeeper: around ?
20090306 15:19:17< zookeeper> boucman, yes
20090306 15:21:34< boucman> I wanted to discuss a potential GSOC on FAI, but we might want DK to be around so let's wait a little
20090306 15:24:05< zookeeper> hmm, ok
20090306 15:37:53< Ivanovic> fendrin: ah, okay, you are around
20090306 15:38:14< Ivanovic> fendrin: have you checked if the problem with "shuffling in the keep" is really not fixed by the change Sirp submitted this night?
20090306 15:38:26< zookeeper> i checked, and it didn't help much if at all, i think.
20090306 15:38:33< Ivanovic> that is: i don't see anything like this in the first httt scenario on normal (but i don't have it in 1.5.12 either...)
20090306 15:45:45< fendrin> Ivanovic, zookeeper: 13105 seems to be fixed.
20090306 15:46:23< fendrin> My attached savefile isn't stuck anymore. The leader returns, recruits and every unit is heading to intercept elves.
20090306 15:47:44< fendrin> But the fix didn't enhance the behaviour in scenario3.
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20090306 15:49:04< fendrin> And I have some massive delays in the advancement to the north of blue in first scenario of httt. It's doing two moves forward and one backwart.
20090306 15:49:12< Ivanovic> fendrin: then attach a save for this, too
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20090306 15:54:52< fendrin> Ivanovic: A savefile for the first scenario of a campaign at turn one?
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20090306 15:55:48< Ivanovic> [15:47:43] <fendrin> But the fix didn't enhance the behaviour in scenario3.
20090306 15:56:03< Ivanovic> or is this only about the scouting stuff?
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20090306 15:56:24< Ivanovic> or is this "only" the stuff in bug #13120 ?
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20090306 15:58:25< Ivanovic> in your last comment in this report the last paragraph is something "problematic"
20090306 15:58:38< Ivanovic> that is: you as human know that the AI is doing nothing brilliant
20090306 15:59:13< Ivanovic> but the ai algorithms might tell it that this is just the best to do in that specific setup
20090306 15:59:32< Ivanovic> like i already wrote before: the AI is (compared to what makes sense for a human) damn stupic
20090306 16:00:06< Ivanovic> and you are perfectly right with "we should try to do better" though this is clearly a non trival task
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20090306 16:02:59< zookeeper> the problem is that the AI can be stupid as long as it even remotely does what you tell it to do via the parameters
20090306 16:03:25< zookeeper> currently it's both being stupid and not doing what you tell it to do (like target villages)
20090306 16:03:47< Ivanovic> zookeeper: was it following those parameters before?
20090306 16:04:15< fendrin> Simple tasks like scouting worked without tuning the ai.
20090306 16:04:31< Ivanovic> as in: if you played the scenario 3 of LoW in wesnoth 1.4.x, would it do the "grab those villages in the south" job?
20090306 16:05:04< fendrin> Ivanovic: I may backport the scenario.
20090306 16:05:27< fendrin> Let's see what the ai is doing in httt.
20090306 16:05:33< fendrin> That is easier.
20090306 16:07:46< Ivanovic> sure, have a look at what it does there
20090306 16:07:56< zookeeper> yeah, sounds like a good idea to do a direct comparison
20090306 16:08:27< Ivanovic> somehow i think that the ai parameters (at least some of them) were not always working the way it was documented/expected (if they work(ed) at all)
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20090306 16:14:04< fendrin> I can't see much of the shuffling in 1.4.
20090306 16:18:14< fendrin> The blue player spreads to the north. The ai is much more straight forward in 1.4. It does seem to have a plan. 1.5 ai is a scared chicken.
20090306 16:31:18< Ivanovic> and i don't see this "shuffling in place" no more in trunk
20090306 16:31:45< Ivanovic> but yeah, the 1.5 ai is more defensive and does block units in groups instead of storming to the front as fast as possible
20090306 16:34:03< fendrin> Okay, I will try to find a workaround for the scenarios in LoW that don't work with the new ai.
20090306 16:34:06< zookeeper> the problem is that it's defensive when it's still completely out of reach of the enemy. it's ok to be defensive when you're in range of attack, but it's overly stupid to be defensive when no one is in range yet.
20090306 16:34:49< fendrin> Ivanovic: Please remove all the wml that doesn't do anything so that campaign developers don't waste time with it before the release of 1.6.
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20090306 16:35:06< alink> hi
20090306 16:35:06< Ivanovic> in general it is good that the ai is more defensive, since with defensive tactics your chance to win is better, *BUT* you are right, the ai is too stupid since it in general is too defensive in the wrong situations
20090306 16:35:15< Ivanovic> fendrin: i got no idea which work and which don't
20090306 16:35:38< Ivanovic> and i especially have no idea about the WML stuff, that is: i am able to write *very basic* stuff with WML but nothing advanced
20090306 16:44:30< fendrin> Ivanovic: You don't need to do it yourself. Just don't release 1.6 with wml enabled and presented in the wiki that is not working.
20090306 16:45:06< Ivanovic> fendrin: i am not sure, if it is "not working" or "not working as strong as expected"
20090306 16:45:30< fendrin> Not working is with my experience so far: caution, aggression, grouping, scout related attributes.
20090306 16:45:47< Ivanovic> fendrin: create a bugreport explicitly listing this stuff
20090306 16:46:03< Soliton> indeed otherwise your experience is pretty useless.
20090306 16:46:13< Ivanovic> something like broken "(?)[ai]-tags"
20090306 16:46:39< Ivanovic> s/broken "/"broken /
20090306 16:46:45< fendrin> Shall I ask for fix or for removal?
20090306 16:47:21< zookeeper> fix of course
20090306 16:48:00< fendrin> zookeeper: Please fill the bug report about the ai being to passive far away from the front.
20090306 16:48:39< zookeeper> err, i wonder if i'm thinking of slight overengineering...should i make a scenario where you can set those attributes for the AI side and then re-run the same turn over and over again with different settings easily?
20090306 16:48:59< fendrin> zookeeper: yes, do that.
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20090306 16:49:12< fendrin> a ai testsuite
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20090306 16:49:59< fendrin> I have already started making a map for such a testcase.
20090306 16:50:30< zookeeper> all right then
20090306 16:50:45< zookeeper> it shouldn't be too complicated to do, actually, i'll see how it works out
20090306 16:51:52< zookeeper> i'd expect that to be ready sometime tonight
20090306 16:52:00< Ivanovic> great!
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20090306 17:22:02< CIA-70> thespaceinvader * r33366 /trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Add and wire LordBob's Woodsman portrait, update changelogs, portrait credits.
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20090306 17:27:53< CIA-70> thespaceinvader * r33367 /trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Add and wire LordBob's Bowman portrait, update changelogs, portrait credits.
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20090306 17:56:36< Ivanovic> off for some hours, cu
20090306 18:01:27< boucman> fendrin: zookeeper: if you have special maps to test stuff in AI it might be an idea to commit them somewhere...
20090306 18:01:51< fendrin> boucman: I am on it.
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20090306 19:27:21< alink_> I am about to commit my patch to change how we store and send [move] in replay and network
20090306 19:28:04< alink_> but i hesitate a little about the WML structure used to store such path
20090306 19:28:32< alink_> my current implementation, even if simple and efficient, is not very readable
20090306 19:29:02< alink_> that is path=x1,y1,x2,y2,...,xn,yn
20090306 19:30:23< boucman> alink_: if the WML is only used over the network, you don't care about readability, robustness is the primary factor
20090306 19:30:29< alink_> mainly comes from the little trick :   std::string path = utils::join(steps)   where steps is a std::vector<map_location>
20090306 19:30:37< boucman> (compacity after compression being a distant second)
20090306 19:31:11< alink_> boucman: yes indeed, i was thinking to devs debugging replay OOS :-)
20090306 19:31:31< boucman> alink_: afk
20090306 19:32:29< alink_> also maybe somewhere we already store path in WML, or will do later in 1.7
20090306 19:33:05< boucman> back
20090306 19:33:23< boucman> alink, how about x1,y1;x2,y2
20090306 19:33:50< boucman> slightly more readable, but not sure it's worth it, debugging should be rare enough and usually doone after the parsing stage...
20090306 19:34:17< alink_> boucman: yes that one looks good too, just need slithly more code to write and parse
20090306 19:35:12< happygrue> could whitespace be used to make it more readable?
20090306 19:35:19< alink_> It's also because i saw other vector of location in WML stored like [area]x=x1,x2...xn   y=x1,x2...xn [/area]
20090306 19:35:42< alink_> * y=y1,y2..yn 
20090306 19:36:27< alink_> happygrue: I suppose, but my main goal is to make source and destination easy to identify
20090306 19:36:43< happygrue> I see
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20090306 19:37:44< alink_> That's not very important, just a possibililty to uniformize WML stuff and related functions
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20090306 19:38:42< alink_> but not sure if it's worth it for this spefific internal thing and at this point of developement
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20090306 19:43:44< grzywacz> evening
20090306 19:44:00< alink_> hi grzywacz
20090306 19:44:23< grzywacz> hey alink_!
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20090306 19:47:02< cjhopman> for paths, i'd say, (x1,y1),(x2,y2),...
20090306 19:47:29< alink> that's indeed very clear
20090306 19:47:36< cjhopman> theres a paranthetical_split that can parse it
20090306 19:47:42< cjhopman> but no paranthetical_join
20090306 19:48:13< alink> But i just found that [move_unit_fake] code its path with x=x1,x2,x3 y=y1,y2,y3
20090306 19:48:43< alink> seems to make sense to copy that for [move] (which do real move)
20090306 19:48:50< cjhopman> true
20090306 19:48:57< alink> mmh maybe i can even recycle/combine the code
20090306 19:49:40< alink> also a 1-step [path] will then look like we store one location
20090306 19:52:03< alink> lol   this [move_unit_fake] seems to have the same bug that i try to fix for replay/MP
20090306 19:52:12< cjhopman> lol
20090306 19:52:37< alink> that is ignore the path and just do a pathfinding between source and destination
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20090306 19:55:42< zookeeper> you don't have to specify every in-between hex with [move_unit_fake], you can give it any list of coords you want and it'll do pathfinding between them as necessary (in case this is at all relevant, which it might not be)
20090306 19:56:51< alink> zookeeper: yes thanks, i also just saw that you commited code sometimes using it like that (and sometimes not)
20090306 19:57:27< alink> wesbot: log 33249
20090306 19:57:28< wesbot> zookeeper * r33249 : Removed a silly gender hack. Reglok is now male and Gamlel female.
20090306 19:57:31< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=33249
20090306 19:57:56< alink> in that case (y=38,39,40) the 39 is ignored
20090306 19:59:04< alink> mmh or maybe not, I need to check if it try to pathfind bewteen adjacent hexes
20090306 20:00:51< alink> ah yes sorry, my bad, it pathfind between each step that you provide
20090306 20:02:09< alink> as zookeeper said earlier, i fully understand him now :-)
20090306 20:02:36< alink> seems that i need a break, bbl
20090306 20:03:12< Ivanovic> alink: question about your code:
20090306 20:03:23< Ivanovic> will replays without the steps in between still work (somehow)?
20090306 20:03:26< alink> quick i am really hungry
20090306 20:03:36< Ivanovic> and, even more important: how do savegames work, are they changed, too?
20090306 20:03:46< Ivanovic> (since those are also usable as replays)
20090306 20:03:57< alink> i think i replied to that in the bugreport recently
20090306 20:04:07< Ivanovic> so do we need some new variable to say "minimum replay version" or stuff like that?
20090306 20:04:14< Ivanovic> ah, okay, will read it up
20090306 20:04:21< Ivanovic> now go and find some food!!!
20090306 20:04:24< Ivanovic> ;)
20090306 20:04:48< alink> but really need to go now, and nothing commited for the moment anyways
20090306 20:04:52< alink> afk
20090306 20:10:28 * Dragonking prepares to break some formulas...
20090306 20:10:40< boucman> hehe
20090306 20:10:52< Dragonking> boucman: Literally.
20090306 20:10:53< Dragonking> :)
20090306 20:11:02< boucman> yeah, I had understood
20090306 20:11:11< boucman> I expected some stuff to be non reversible
20090306 20:11:27< boucman> formulas won't be very usable in 1.6 but they are a new fature, so...
20090306 20:11:36< Dragonking> I need to change members of unit formula type to reflect these from SingleUnitWML
20090306 20:11:39< boucman> we might stabilize them in early 1.6.x
20090306 20:12:09< Dragonking> Yup
20090306 20:13:10< Sirp> ...I think we put too many features in the AI too fast by too many people who didn't know what they were doing. Now most of the features don't work very nicely. :(
20090306 20:13:12< Dragonking> But well, we need to keep 1.6.x compatibility so I doubt we can really 'improve' formula AI in stable
20090306 20:14:23< boucman> Sirp: yeah, we need to have a discussion, the three of us on where we are going with FAI
20090306 20:14:32< boucman> in particular wrt the next GSOC
20090306 20:14:41< Dragonking> Sirp: Do we have a map of locations that units can 'see', not only 'reach' like srcdst/dstsrc?
20090306 20:14:54< boucman> do we try to do a (much more) modest SoC on it ?
20090306 20:15:06< Dragonking> boucman: Testing, stability, improving, building library
20090306 20:15:43< boucman> building libraries would probably be my favorite, but we need function ideas, and that's not easy right now
20090306 20:15:45< Dragonking> Awesome would be some kind of debugger... but it will be difficult
20090306 20:16:45< Dragonking> boucman: Key thing needed to develop formula AI are people using it.
20090306 20:16:47< Sirp> Dragonking: IIRC we do, though I forget what it is...would have to look....
20090306 20:16:53< boucman> Dragonking: indeed
20090306 20:17:00< Sirp> boucman: I am still rather dubious about allowing AI projects for GSoC
20090306 20:17:07< boucman> btw, any news of our poison formula ,
20090306 20:17:09< boucman> ?
20090306 20:17:12< Dragonking> Key thing to have people using it is to make formula usable.
20090306 20:17:23< Dragonking> boucman: No, I'm fixing bugs
20090306 20:17:39< boucman> Sirp: so am I, but I don't know what else to mentor, and I really would like to push the subject
20090306 20:17:46< Dragonking> boucman: Then I'll fix formulas that I'm going to brake within this hour...
20090306 20:17:48< Sirp> boucman: okay.
20090306 20:18:08< Ivanovic> hmm, in general some "debug facilities" in formulas would be great to have
20090306 20:18:17< Sirp> boucman: of course, with GSoC what matters more than careful planning I think is seeing what students we get who are talented and what they want to do for us.
20090306 20:18:28< Ivanovic> beside this some "formula library" is the only smaller thing you can go for, everything else is "too big"
20090306 20:18:40< Dragonking> Exactly.
20090306 20:18:47< boucman> Ivanovic: some special single unit AIS
20090306 20:18:48< boucman> afk
20090306 20:19:31< Dragonking> boucman: These are actually too easy IMHO (or will be, once formula language will be mostly bug-free)
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20090306 20:21:50< Dragonking> Sirp: I'd like to add it, besides 'enemy_moves' it would be nice to have 'enemy_range' or something like that
20090306 20:22:34< Sirp> Dragonking: okay. Sure.
20090306 20:23:18< Dragonking> Sirp: So you will look at it to find how it was called, or you have no time and I should do that myself? :)
20090306 20:26:43< boucman> Dragonking: do you think it would be a good idea to do a simple formula that would handle all units in attack range, so we do a big step in replacing C++ AI by FAI ?
20090306 20:27:10< Dragonking> boucman: Now before stable? Really bad idea. 
20090306 20:27:18< boucman> naaah
20090306 20:27:22< boucman> past 1.6 of course
20090306 20:28:06< Dragonking> I think it is worth a try.
20090306 20:28:35< boucman> ok, a simple formul that take into account chance to kill, damage dealt, chance to be killed
20090306 20:29:01< boucman> with well balanced score, we could have something quite efficiant easily
20090306 20:29:25< Dragonking> That reminds me what I still would like to implement...
20090306 20:30:05< boucman> which is ?
20090306 20:30:16< Dragonking> Well, regarding AI I would be cautious of putting 'easily' and 'efficent' in one sentence. ;p
20090306 20:30:37< boucman> :P
20090306 20:30:48< Dragonking> Attack calculation could be improved.
20090306 20:31:08< Dragonking> But to begin with it is a bit buggy...
20090306 20:31:24< boucman> you mean the calculation rusty did ?
20090306 20:32:10< Dragonking> I mean AI's attack_analysis 
20090306 20:32:36< boucman> isn't it the same calculation ?
20090306 20:33:03< Sirp> Dragonking: it'd be ideal if you were to do that. :)
20090306 20:33:13< Dragonking> I don't know what rusty did. It may be the same. :)
20090306 20:33:26< Dragonking> Sirp: Ok, I'll look for it, tho not sure if today. ;p
20090306 20:34:11 * Dragonking got enlighted..
20090306 20:34:41< Dragonking> Not.
20090306 20:34:42< Dragonking> :)
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20090306 21:26:13< Ivanovic> Dragonking, Sirp: can you have a look at https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13131 and comment on how those single items should work an/or if they really are broken and should thus be removed from the WML reference?
20090306 21:29:32< zookeeper> well, duh, if you'd remove those then there'd be pretty much nothing left.
20090306 21:29:46-!- fabi is now known as fendrin
20090306 21:31:23< zookeeper> so to me removing anything sounds like a really bad idea.
20090306 21:34:26< fendrin> zookeeper: all instances of targeting instead of targetting are misspellings, right?
20090306 21:34:36< zookeeper> probably
20090306 21:35:05< fendrin> grep -r "targeting" * does list some.
20090306 21:37:39< zookeeper> well there's your answer then
20090306 21:42:03< ilor> uh, the *proper* key is "targeTTing"?
20090306 21:43:03< fendrin> tergetting is used more often
20090306 21:43:14< fendrin> s/tergetting/targetting
20090306 21:50:05< alink> Ivanovic: I think that we could add the backward compatibility support for RC1 replays, but if such replay had the RC1 OOS, it will be there too when playing it with the compatibility code of RC2
20090306 21:50:49< alink> so the message for users would be like, if you RC1 replay worked without bug, it will work on RC2
20090306 21:52:40< alink> mmh I said that but i didn't implement it yet
20090306 21:53:14< alink> easy for the main replay, just need to check something about undoing a rename
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20090306 22:37:56< CIA-70> dragonking * r33368 /trunk/src/callable_objects.cpp: Made formula AI unit members correspond to these in SingleUnitWML
20090306 22:38:39< Dragonking> fendrin: Around?
20090306 22:38:42< CIA-70> dragonking * r33369 /trunk/data/ai/formula/recruitment.fai: Update after recent formula change
20090306 22:39:11< fendrin> Dragonking: hi
20090306 22:39:15< Dragonking> hi
20090306 22:39:41< Dragonking> Can you point me to all usaged of formula AI you're aware of?
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20090306 22:40:01< Dragonking> Elvish_Pillager: Fixed id/type issue in trunk.
20090306 22:41:42< fendrin> Dragonking: I only know about LoW scenario 16.
20090306 22:41:51< Dragonking> fendrin: ok, thanks
20090306 22:47:31-!- nital_ is now known as nital
20090306 22:48:20< Elvish_Pillager> Dragonking: cool. Any progress on the bugs?
20090306 22:48:38< Dragonking> Elvish_Pillager: move should work properly
20090306 22:48:47< Dragonking> Elvish_Pillager: Added simplest_path function
20090306 22:49:05< Dragonking> And you have your 3rd parameter for unit if needed in both bath calculators
20090306 22:49:12< Elvish_Pillager> :)
20090306 22:49:21< Elvish_Pillager> How about the attack bug?
20090306 22:49:29< Dragonking> Which one?
20090306 22:49:39< Elvish_Pillager> unable to attack from the same location
20090306 22:49:43< Dragonking> Fixed.
20090306 22:49:57< Elvish_Pillager> _speedy_ development
20090306 22:50:00 * Elvish_Pillager enjoys
20090306 22:50:20< Elvish_Pillager> (simplest_path is like shortest_path but ignoring units, right?)
20090306 22:50:26< Dragonking> Yes
20090306 22:50:59< Dragonking> shortest path now returns [] if no path is found
20090306 22:51:20< Dragonking> simplest path returns path that unit can go till first hex that is unpassable
20090306 22:52:04< Dragonking> If you spot any new bugs, just tell me.
20090306 22:52:20< zookeeper> fendrin, well, i've finished the thing that allows you to change the params mid-scenario via a menu item, but not the part which would allow you to rollback the previous turn. but just loading an autosave is probably pretty good too.
20090306 22:52:32< Elvish_Pillager> Dragonking: unpassable?
20090306 22:52:50< Dragonking> Like mountains for heavy infantry
20090306 22:53:14< Dragonking> Anything with 99 movement cost for a unit
20090306 22:53:16< Elvish_Pillager> how does it find a path through impassible terrain?
20090306 22:53:25< Dragonking> It does.
20090306 22:53:36< Elvish_Pillager> Treating it as if it had movecost 99?
20090306 22:53:40< cjhopman> and why?
20090306 22:53:51< fendrin> zookeeper: do you import it to umc-dev?
20090306 22:53:57< Dragonking> emergency_path_calculator does that
20090306 22:54:01< Dragonking> And i use it.
20090306 22:54:26< Elvish_Pillager> That seems wrong - it would favor walking through a wall over a legitimate path that goes a long way around.
20090306 22:54:38< Dragonking> Elvish_Pillager: shortest_path
20090306 22:54:56< Elvish_Pillager> but that considers units
20090306 22:55:17< Dragonking> Elvish_Pillager: legimate path *will* be calculated
20090306 22:55:46< Dragonking> Cause movement cost of 99 won't win against other hexes with 1 2 or 3 moevment cost in calculateor
20090306 22:56:03< Elvish_Pillager> It only makes a path through cavewall if it can't find _any_ real path?
20090306 22:56:18< Dragonking> yup
20090306 22:56:31< Dragonking> And still, it won't return a cavewall in result
20090306 22:56:56< Dragonking> Like I mentioned, it will then return only hexes up to first cavewal excluding cavewalll
20090306 22:57:36< cjhopman> seems odd. what good is that path?
20090306 22:57:44< zookeeper> fendrin, not yet
20090306 22:57:53< Dragonking> TO move toward destination no matter what?
20090306 22:58:08< cjhopman> i guess
20090306 22:58:31< Dragonking> What good for is ignoring ZoC anyway?
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20090306 23:00:35< Elvish_Pillager> Right now I'm just using it to find the real distance to the target.
20090306 23:00:40< Elvish_Pillager> no wait wait
20090306 23:00:52< Elvish_Pillager> yeah that's what I'm using it for
20090306 23:01:23< Dragonking> 'real' as ignoring ZoC and only "land distance" ?
20090306 23:01:36< Elvish_Pillager> yeah - I mean, more real than distance_between
20090306 23:01:41< alink> wesbot: log 30508
20090306 23:01:42< wesbot> shadowmaster * r30508 : * Fix an assertion failure caused by doing [move_unit_fake] with
20090306 23:01:46< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=30508
20090306 23:01:59< Elvish_Pillager> and the path can be used to calculate terrain movecost total, anyway
20090306 23:02:12< Dragonking> Elvish_Pillager: You could say that to begin with, I would add something that just returns number
20090306 23:02:13< alink> Shadow_Master: ^ probably better to use a cost value of 1.0 there
20090306 23:02:36< Dragonking> it can
20090306 23:02:44< Dragonking> Elvish_Pillager: What do you use that cost for?
20090306 23:03:00< Elvish_Pillager> I don't use it! I'm just giving examples of how else it can be used.
20090306 23:03:02< alink> Shadow_Master: IIRC some pathfinding stuff assume a minimum of 1.0 and that seems to be still ok for your bugfix
20090306 23:03:20< Elvish_Pillager> Another use would be to find the nearest enemies blocking your path to a given destination
20090306 23:03:32< Dragonking> Yup
20090306 23:07:37< CIA-70> dragonking * r33370 /trunk/src/formula_ai.cpp: Made unit loop formulas work even when no unit formula is specified
20090306 23:08:39< fendrin> Dragonking: is the formula ai aware of the wml ai parameters?
20090306 23:08:48< Dragonking> No.
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20090306 23:41:14< CIA-70> alink * r33371 /trunk/src/ (7 files): 
20090306 23:41:14< CIA-70> Fix bug #13118 (OOS with hidden units, mainly with AI)
20090306 23:41:14< CIA-70> Now store and send the path used (using x=x1,x2,.. and y=y1,y2.. in [move])
20090306 23:41:14< CIA-70> This currently break compatibility with replay done with RC1 (if they worked)
20090306 23:41:14< CIA-70> I will try to restore backward compatibility in next commit.
20090306 23:41:17< CIA-70> PS: This commit is a small variation of the patch posted in the bugreport
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--- Log closed Sat Mar 07 00:00:13 2009