--- Log opened Sat Mar 14 00:00:40 2009
--- Day changed Sat Mar 14 2009
20090314 00:00:40< alink> to whoever maintain WML animation stuff, bats still don't have a cyclic moving animation
20090314 00:00:57< alink> or the animation is too short
20090314 00:01:16< alink> anyways i go now, afk
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20090314 00:10:57< Ivanovic> YogiHH: i trust in your page about the savegame stuff being fine
20090314 00:10:58< Ivanovic> ;)
20090314 00:11:22< YogiHH> Ivanovic: ok :-)
20090314 00:11:48< YogiHH> Ivanovic: which revision was the AI fix you committed?
20090314 00:12:08< Ivanovic> that is noted in the bugreport
20090314 00:12:29< Ivanovic> and it was no intended fix, just a cleanup that seems to have at least improved something
20090314 00:12:55< Ivanovic> ;)
20090314 00:14:37< nital> Voodoovanovic ;)
20090314 00:15:17< zookeeper> YogiHH, well, at least i can continue dreaming about it
20090314 00:15:31< YogiHH> :-)
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20090314 00:18:08< YogiHH> Ivanovic: bug #13165 seems to be fixed as well, i will try to check with an older release to make sure...
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20090314 00:27:50< Dragonking> YogiHH: I think we should treat SoC as a full-time work.
20090314 00:29:08< YogiHH> Dragonking: yes, i agree, i was asking about the time frame. Was it 3 months?
20090314 00:30:39< Dragonking> Accepted students list is available from 20th April...
20090314 00:31:14< Dragonking> Oficially coding starts at 23th May (so 20 April - 23 May is "community bounding pariod)
20090314 00:31:19< Dragonking> period even
20090314 00:31:50< Dragonking> And end is at August 24th
20090314 00:32:14-!- Sirp [n=me@wesnoth/developer/dave] has quit ["leaving"]
20090314 00:32:29< Dragonking> So it is 3 months + this community bounding period.
20090314 00:33:20< Soliton> anybody know how config merging works exactly?
20090314 00:34:03< Soliton> especially considering many tags of the same name.
20090314 00:34:30< zookeeper> if you're still wondering about that variation stuff, then i guess looking at the savefile gives you the most reliable answer
20090314 00:34:42< zookeeper> maybe
20090314 00:34:51< YogiHH> Soliton: I used to deal with that but it has been a while :(
20090314 00:35:16< zookeeper> or maybe that's not applicable here. i'm too tired to think straight
20090314 00:35:21< Soliton> zookeeper: i've looked at the savegame it all doesn't make sense.
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20090314 00:42:47< zookeeper> Soliton, ok, so what exactly doesn't make sense?
20090314 00:43:32< zookeeper> just in case i'd spot something
20090314 00:45:59< zookeeper> oh and actually i think you were onto something originally about those two [effect]s
20090314 00:46:16< Soliton> zookeeper: try this http://nopaste.com/p/aF4Z81GB1
20090314 00:46:30< zookeeper> since if the ENABLE_AMLA stuff merging overwrites the [advancement]s, then the [effect]s inside them will still mismatch
20090314 00:46:34< Soliton> as Kaleh.cfg
20090314 00:46:56< Soliton> zookeeper: yeah, i got confused in between.
20090314 00:47:16< Soliton> but the thing is if i put the custom effect first it somewhat works right.
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20090314 00:49:12< fendrin> Dragonking: ping
20090314 00:49:46< Dragonking> fendrin: pong
20090314 00:50:14< fendrin> Dragonking: I am working on an ai testsuite, do you have any whishes for it?
20090314 00:51:07< zookeeper> Soliton, advanced twice (swordsman and then bolas i think), seemed to work, but i'm not sure what i should be looking for...but i gotta be going to bed now
20090314 00:51:38< zookeeper> maybe tomorrow i can have some ideas about that since i finally understand how the whole thing works
20090314 00:51:40< Soliton> zookeeper: so the stat increases seemed right?
20090314 00:52:33< zookeeper> Soliton, i guess
20090314 00:52:46< Soliton> ok, cool.. i guess.
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20090314 00:54:19< Soliton> somehow i can't see how the config merging can work right with tags of the same name at all though. the config that is merged from looks for tags with a simple map::find() and that will just return the same tag all the time afaict...
20090314 00:54:39< Soliton> i always thought it would go by index.
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20090314 00:54:50< YogiHH> night everyone
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20090314 01:06:30< ilor> gnight
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20090314 01:59:49< CIA-70> dragonking * r33612 /trunk/src/formula_ai.cpp: Made [function] WML tag for formula actually work, not only waste space in sources...
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20090314 02:06:06< CIA-70> torangan * r33613 /trunk/ (changelog data/core/about.cfg po/wesnoth/he.po): hebrew translation update
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20090314 02:13:58-!- [Relic] [n=[Relic]@76.229.202.137] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090314 02:15:24< [Relic]> Hello :)
20090314 02:17:24-!- AndreLuiz [n=AndreLui@unaffiliated/andreluiz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090314 02:18:23< Dragonking> hi
20090314 02:19:48< [Relic]> :)
20090314 02:32:11< Shadow_Master> ho
20090314 02:32:18< shikadibot> :)
20090314 02:35:28< sylecn> I find some texts with a surrounding <ref> tag after translated shows a line break after the text, I have post screenshot on the forum here http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24471&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a. Anyone has idea why?
20090314 02:37:13< Shadow_Master> I can't find the translated link to magi in the screenshot
20090314 02:38:07< sylecn> I'm sorry, I should circle it. It is at the end of the first line, first para
20090314 02:38:28< Shadow_Master> nvm, I was looking for the wrong link
20090314 02:39:30< Shadow_Master> is it necessary to have no spaces between the text and the angle brackets?
20090314 02:40:00< alink> sylecn: maybe i know why
20090314 02:40:28< sylecn> Alesis-Novik, so why?
20090314 02:40:47< alink> there is no space in the next line (as often in asian language), so the text rendering cut only when forced
20090314 02:41:40< alink> the hyperlink cut the sentence in 3 words, a big one + link + other big one
20090314 02:41:49< alink> so; he cut after the link
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20090314 02:42:31< alink> ah word wrap, that is the word that i searched
20090314 02:42:51 * Shadow_Master was about to suggest the same thing actually.
20090314 02:43:32< sylecn> Is it like setting textwidth in vim, so it auto cut when you reach certain width?
20090314 02:44:04< alink> yes, but in other language there is spaces, so more option to cut nicely
20090314 02:44:30< alink> i suspect that if you remove all the space between the words in the english version, you will the same bug
20090314 02:44:52< alink> *you will have 
20090314 02:45:28< alink> mmh easy to test, trying it now
20090314 02:45:38< sylecn> so can I use some control character to disable a wordwrap?
20090314 02:45:58< sylecn> or is there any control character?
20090314 02:46:10< alink> I don't know any
20090314 02:46:28< alink> but you could add a space at the right place
20090314 02:46:33< Shadow_Master> let's search the 2^32 characters of the Unicode (UTF-32) charset ! ;-)
20090314 02:46:42< alink> ah no it depends of screen resolution
20090314 02:46:51< Shadow_Master> I think there are some control characters like that actually, though.
20090314 02:47:24< Soliton> i doubt wesnoth's code cares.
20090314 02:47:30< Shadow_Master> something like "invisible space"
20090314 02:48:11< alink> Soliton: there is asian character in wesnoth's code, in marked-up_text.cpp
20090314 02:48:20< alink>  * * the following characters cannot begin a line (so we will never break before them):
20090314 02:48:22< alink>  * 、。，．）〕］｝〉》」』】’”ゝゞヽヾ々？！：；ぁぃぅぇぉゃゅょゎァィゥェォャュョヮっヵッヶ・…ー
20090314 02:48:38< Shadow_Master> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Width_Space
20090314 02:48:41< alink> but not sure if it works
20090314 02:48:58< Soliton> i was responding to the special characters.
20090314 02:49:41< sylecn> I see 。 begins a line.
20090314 02:49:44< sylecn> in wesnoth
20090314 02:50:33< alink> Actually we already encouter this problem in the past, the solution that i proposed was to add a key for asian languages like we do for right-to-left, and then consider each character as a word, and this correctlt word wrapping them
20090314 02:50:49< alink> unfortunaly, i forgot about this
20090314 02:52:09< alink> now it's too late for 1.6, but the zero width space idea of Shadow_Master may do the trick
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20090314 02:52:50< alink> (assuming it works, if not maybe it's easy to add support for it)
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20090314 02:53:46< sylecn> where should I add zero width space? 
20090314 02:53:56< alink> mmh no, wesnoth only look spaces
20090314 02:54:02< Shadow_Master> before <ref and after /ref> (if it worked
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20090314 02:55:44< alink> ah there is mention of CKJ characters on breaf_after and break_before
20090314 02:56:05< alink> (ch >= 0x3000 && ch < 0xa000) || (ch >= 0xf900 && ch < 0xfb00) || (ch >= 0xff00 && ch < 0xfff0);
20090314 03:00:19< alink> I think I see the related code for word wraping in help, maybe we could just change it there
20090314 03:00:55< alink> I will check that later, bbl
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20090314 03:38:02< CIA-70> soliton * r33614 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): * Increased the experience requirement for the Ancient Lich from 150 to 250 in DiD
20090314 03:38:08< CIA-70> soliton * r33615 /trunk/INSTALL: mention that the server gets built by default
20090314 03:38:18< CIA-70> soliton * r33616 /trunk/data/core/about.cfg: added missing opening tag
20090314 03:38:20< CIA-70> soliton * r33617 /trunk/utils/mp-server/run_server: added support for 1.6
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20090314 03:52:16< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: there are some problems with the release announcement template:
20090314 03:53:05< Shadow_Master> 1) In the paragraph where I mentioned Wesnoth-UMC-Dev, I accidentally used a raw ampersand (&) in the href attribute of the <a> tag. XHTML doesn't allow this (it may be interpreted as an invalid XML entity).
20090314 03:53:54< Shadow_Master> 2) for some reason, in the po files there's an space after the closing angle bracket of the <a href="..."> opening tag.
20090314 03:54:38< Shadow_Master> 3) I advice running it through the W3C validator if you want to have valid XHTML 1.1 as the DOCTYPE declaration cliams.
20090314 03:54:55< Shadow_Master> 4) how can these issues be fixed without bothering the translators?
20090314 03:55:42< Shadow_Master> that's it for now.
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20090314 03:58:16< sylecn> Ivanovic, I have tested zenhei font and the fonts.cfg file on my computer, they are working very well. I tried remove all other fonts, leaving only wqy-zenhei.ttc, all characters are correctly displayed. You can safely add that font now.
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20090314 04:19:09< alink> Aha!
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20090314 04:20:28 * alink was swamped in the world wrapping of help when he had a simple idea to implement zero width space in WML
20090314 04:21:15< alink> well it's a hack, but it work. And the funny thing is that it exploit the bug to make it work
20090314 04:22:33< alink> basicaly add <ref>dst='zero width space' text=''</ref> where you want to allow the word wrap to cut
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20090314 04:22:59< alink> or <ref>dst='.' text=''</ref> but empty dst doesn't work
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20090314 04:26:29< alink> sylecn: that's not really a solution, but adding few of these <ref>dst='.' text=''</ref> between the characters following the hyperlink when you want word wrap will fix it
20090314 04:27:14< sylecn> i will try it now
20090314 04:27:39< alink> i am looking at the clean solution, that is allow to stick hyperlink to text, as HTML does (i think)
20090314 04:28:46< alink> but i fear that if another translation was not careful about the space around the link, then it may cause word wrap problem for that one
20090314 04:29:59< alink> sylecn: so, just to be clear, that's an ugly hack, use it only if we don't manage to fix it before 1.6
20090314 04:30:13< sylecn> ok
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20090314 04:31:37< sylecn> In fact, I don't get the idea why a link affects the texts, I thought it was something like html <a href> tag
20090314 04:33:51< alink> as i explained, the lack of spaces in Chinese confuses the wesnoth word wrap, it think that it's all long words and think it must not cut them
20090314 04:34:22< alink> the hyperlink add places where it is allowed to cut the text
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20090314 04:35:12< sylecn> But in the hyperlink text="foo" field, there is only Chinese inside
20090314 04:35:30< sylecn> does the link itself becomes part of the text?
20090314 04:36:02< alink> the text in the link is not relevant for this, even the image tag could work
20090314 04:36:43< alink> the point is that the <tag>something</tag> is considered a safe place to word wrap
20090314 04:37:34< alink> my trick with <ref>dst='dummy text' text=''</ref> just add an invisible object
20090314 04:37:34< sylecn> what if <tag> is not considered a safe place to word wrap?
20090314 04:38:08< sylecn> i mean does removing that check work?
20090314 04:38:48< alink> that's what i want to implement, but that's a bit more complex to do ;-)
20090314 04:38:56< sylecn> ok
20090314 04:39:44< sylecn> and I use the dummy text method, add one before <ref> and one after </ref> it not working, how many should I add ?
20090314 04:40:06< alink> ah no, you must not use it like that
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20090314 04:40:48< alink> you must add several after the link, idealy one after each character, to indicate that we can word wrap there
20090314 04:41:07< alink> yeah that's why it's an ugly hack ;-p
20090314 04:41:23< sylecn> oh, I see 
20090314 04:41:42< sylecn> yeah, that will be a lot of work if the following sentence is long
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20090314 04:42:24< alink> well just add one every 5 characters, or even just one at the right place, may make the bug less visible
20090314 04:42:55< alink> the only thing that i am not sure is if the size of the help window change with the screen resolution
20090314 04:44:51< sylecn> yes, I'm trying to do that. That's kind of manual wrapping. Oh there is option to set a resolution, if help window change with that, that's too bad...
20090314 04:45:00< alink> if the help window and fonts are relatively the same on all system, you may predict the exact place where to add one zero width space
20090314 04:46:01< alink> mmh good the help window seems to have always the same width
20090314 04:46:16< sylecn> i'm glad to hear that
20090314 04:46:51< alink> grr except when screen width is below 1024 :-(
20090314 04:46:55< sylecn> then I will just be job to add dummy word at where I think it should be break after <tag> is used
20090314 04:48:34< sylecn> your trick is working 
20090314 04:48:51< alink> ah good
20090314 04:49:12< alink> anyway, that was the hackish way. I will try to look the clean way, but i fear that it will be too short for 1.6
20090314 04:49:13< sylecn> even netbook has 1024x600, don't worry about width
20090314 04:49:57< alink> this word wrap code always make my head hurt
20090314 04:51:23< alink> ok, I will go take some fresh air, and try again later, afk
20090314 04:52:10< sylecn> have you just read that code, what's the filename? I wonder if I can understand how it do that
20090314 04:52:46< alink> help.cpp
20090314 04:52:53< sylecn> ok
20090314 04:53:15< alink> which is one of the biggest file and has some quite complex stuff, so good luck   :-D
20090314 04:53:49< alink> the place where I try to fix it is in  help_text_area::add_text_item
20090314 04:54:31< alink> espically where it says :  // The first word does not fit, and we are not at the start of the line. Move down.
20090314 04:54:47< alink> anyway, really afk now
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20090314 05:46:01< vivri> Hello
20090314 05:46:10< Blueblaze> Hello vivri
20090314 05:46:41< vivri> hi Blueblaze, i remember we talked a couple of days ago
20090314 05:47:05< vivri> Blueblaze: i still have the same question :)
20090314 05:47:52< Blueblaze> Heh, well that's not up my alley :P
20090314 05:49:20< vivri> Blueblaze: no worries :)
20090314 05:50:55< vivri> Blueblaze: i mentioned this project to a friend today, he said that he played the game before and that he liked it.. haven't had a chance myself, since i just heard about you when i was revisiting the 08 gsoc projects
20090314 05:51:32< Blueblaze> vivri, did you paritcipate last year in GSoC?
20090314 05:51:46< vivri> Blueblaze: yep, did an AI client for thousand-parsec
20090314 05:52:13< Blueblaze> And did everything work out well for the project and what you were trying to accomplish?
20090314 05:53:19< vivri> Blueblaze: yes, but i'm not satisfied :) only had about a week and a half to write the actual ai, since i had to build a working client before that :)
20090314 05:54:14< vivri> they had a working python client, but as i didnt know python i decided it would be easier to make a java client instead
20090314 05:54:32< vivri> gotta say, that took some time..
20090314 05:55:15< Blueblaze> I see, so do you still help out the thousand-parsec project?
20090314 05:55:51< vivri> i don't; i have a pretty busy course load, plus i work as a developer p/t
20090314 05:57:34< vivri> i'd really like to work on my bot there, but it occurs to me that it's a dead end, since probably no-one would support my java client in later versions, and porting the logic to python is not worth it
20090314 05:58:22< vivri> would be less time consuming to write a new one for the python client
20090314 05:58:54< vivri> and they already have one. 
20090314 06:00:16< vivri> Blueblaze: i would really be interested in trying something different, such as an ai for wesnoth
20090314 06:01:01< vivri> is there anyone actively involved in it right now?
20090314 06:02:23< Blueblaze> vivri, I don't know who specifically is currently working on the ai, I know Sirp has done/does quite a bit
20090314 06:02:53< Blueblaze> This may give you some insight on our ai from the WML perspective, http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/AiWML
20090314 06:03:44< Blueblaze> vivri, and the Formula AI, which I don't know much about, but is in progress, http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/FormulaAI_Functions
20090314 06:04:18< Blueblaze> and a nice article on FormulaAI, http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/FormulaAI
20090314 06:05:47< vivri> cool, i haven't seen the wml article, and i skimmed some document concerning the formula-script
20090314 06:07:09< vivri> i'll read them later on, thanks for sharing the links
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20090314 06:13:00< vivri> Sirp: hi, Blueblaze said you're the main ai dev here. i'm really interested in working on your project for the upcoming gsoc, do you have a few minutes to chat?
20090314 06:15:41< Sirp> vivri: sure.....
20090314 06:16:10< Sirp> vivri: to begin with, I'd like to say that an AI is *hard*. We will only accept a student's AI proposal if it is REALLY strong.
20090314 06:17:38< vivri> Sirp: i understand that you want the best person for the job. at this stage i can only say that this field immensely interests me, and that i've done similar work in the past.
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20090314 06:19:06< vivri> Sirp: i'm new to your project, and right now i just want to get the big picture of where it stands right now, what are the challenges, and in what direction do you want to develop it
20090314 06:20:01< vivri> Sirp: i skimmed through some of the docs on wml and ai-formula
20090314 06:20:33< Sirp> vivri: okay. Actually what I'm saying is that it's quite likely that we won't select an AI project at all, in favor of other projects.
20090314 06:20:43< Sirp> I'm not trying to discourage you, just being realistic, and welcome -- we love to have new people around. :)
20090314 06:21:19< vivri> Sirp: ok, fair enough. and thanks :) 
20090314 06:22:05< vivri> i wish i had some time to play the game before i came crashing in here, but i barely got time for 3 pitchers a week :(
20090314 06:22:10< vivri> :)
20090314 06:24:43< Sirp> vivri: playing the game would probably be a VERY good idea. :)
20090314 06:24:51< Sirp> vivri: and starting by trying to make some small changes and patches
20090314 06:25:58< vivri> Sirp: ok. is there anything that's close to the ai engine that needs a small fix?
20090314 06:26:45< vivri> Sirp: ps- what's the language of choice for wesnoth dev?
20090314 06:28:07< Sirp> vivri: C++
20090314 06:28:29< Sirp> vivri: and ummm I'm going to be frank, if you want AI to be your project in Wesnoth you better be GOOD with C++
20090314 06:29:20< Sirp> as for a 'small' fix..ummm....I'd recommend that you try to write a simple AI of your own that has some specific specialized goal.
20090314 06:30:07< vivri> Sirp: cool. i'm working p/t as a c++ junior dev at the moment. i don't have very deep knowledge of it right now, but this would be enough of a motivation to master templates and such before summer starts
20090314 06:32:45< vivri> Sirp: basically, i consider myself a good java programmer, i know c pretty well, and i'm familiar with many c++ features, but there is still much for me to learn. if i know that my proposal will be accepted though, i'll be up to par by june
20090314 06:36:18 * Sirp nods....
20090314 06:36:44< Sirp> vivri: so yeah I think it'd be great if you tried to develop a specialized AI
20090314 06:37:06< Sirp> so then we could get an idea of your skills and ideas.
20090314 06:37:17< Sirp> vivri: what is it you wanted to do in an AI project exactly? Did you have some specific ideas?
20090314 06:37:40< vivri> great, this sounds doable. i wonder at what level do i communicate with the game-engine as an ai-engine developer?
20090314 06:38:17< Sirp> vivri: well there is this AI interface in ai_interface.hpp
20090314 06:38:56< Sirp> you derive a class from ai_interface to make a new AI
20090314 06:39:11< Sirp> it has all the functions you need to find information about the game state and then call functions to make moves etc
20090314 06:39:57< vivri> Sirp: right now i don't have a particular course of action i'd like to pursue, but in the top level i guess this would be an automaton that uses different modules in a sequence of steps.
20090314 06:40:16< vivri> this is very generic though. the real answer is, i don't have a game-plan yet.
20090314 06:40:23 * Sirp nods...
20090314 06:40:50< Blueblaze> vivri, just curious, how much of Wesnoth gameplay have you played?
20090314 06:41:03< Sirp> vivri: once again, not to discourage you, but to give you some background I have a dozen years of experience as a C++ programmer and am a senior developer at Google. I think developing an AI is hard.
20090314 06:41:52< vivri> Sirp: This is great! last summer i devoted 9/10 of my time to developing a working client and ai-friendly game-library...
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20090314 06:44:26< vivri> Blueblaze: i just heard of wesnoth a few days back by looking through an old gsoc page.. i haven't had a chance to play yet. which isn't good i suppose, but i watched a few trailers on youtube, and i've played many games in the genre
20090314 06:44:43< Sirp> vivri: oh really? What game library?
20090314 06:45:05< Sirp> vivri: and I recommend a FIRST step to be to try playing Wesnoth and decide you like it!!
20090314 06:46:18< vivri> Sirp: ok. i don't have an illusion that it'll be easy, but i think i can do a quality product given some time. 
20090314 06:46:44< vivri> Sirp: i participated in gsoc last year, for the thousand-parsec project, doing an ai for a Risk clone
20090314 06:46:46< Sirp> okay. :)
20090314 06:46:49< Sirp> ahhhhh cool.
20090314 06:46:58< Sirp> we will have to talk to them about how you did on that. :)
20090314 06:47:03< vivri> Sirp: ok
20090314 06:47:23< happygrue> vivri: seriously though, it is a really fun game, and you should try playing a bit
20090314 06:48:19< Sirp> vivri: yeah, try playing it......decide you like it.
20090314 06:48:36< Sirp> I mean I'd hope you wouldn't want to develop for a game you don't like, and we don't want a developer who doesn't like our game....
20090314 06:48:38< happygrue> I am a usually pretty good at picking up games, but the Wesnoth AI beat me up pretty badly when I first started playing - there is 'a bit' of a learning curve to Wesnoth
20090314 06:49:33< vivri> Sirp, happygrue: :) i will. 
20090314 06:51:56< vivri> um, i didn't just come here because "it was there". i really like the genre ( meet with friends once a week for a HMM3 session ), and this seems like a mature project, which in a way speaks of itself in terms of gameplay quality.
20090314 06:53:04 * happygrue nods
20090314 06:53:10< happygrue> well, play some, and see what you think :)
20090314 06:53:20 * vivri checking to see whether there's a 'buntu package...
20090314 06:54:45 * vivri found it!
20090314 06:57:24< vivri> i guess i'll see you later. it's getting pretty late here (in Toronto). thanks for the welcome.
20090314 06:57:29< happygrue> goodnight
20090314 06:57:34< vivri> gnite
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20090314 08:29:25< mordante> hi
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20090314 08:41:17< mordante> alink regarding the Chinese wrapping problem, I hope to finish my widget stuff in 1.7 which should take care of it
20090314 08:41:30< mordante> I let Pango do the wrapping and other smart stuff
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20090314 09:47:27< boucman> morning all
20090314 09:47:45< mordante> hi boucman 
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20090314 10:01:04< Dragonking> hi everyone
20090314 10:01:43< Dragonking> boucman: I heavyli debugged barbarianhero's candidate moves yestedray to see if they work properly, seems like they do. :)
20090314 10:01:53< boucman> :)
20090314 10:02:04< boucman> we might still smarten the poison in 1.6 :P
20090314 10:02:28< Dragonking> I still need to implement some things
20090314 10:02:40< mordante> :-)
20090314 10:02:56< Dragonking> one moderete and one really big one... it will take some time
20090314 10:03:27< boucman> Dragonking: which are ?
20090314 10:03:54< Dragonking> Priorities for unit  formulas, and error reporting with error flags and on_fail= formulas
20090314 10:05:30< Dragonking> And knowing how it went so far testing if these new features will bring out some new unknown bugs. ;p
20090314 10:05:43< boucman> priorities ?
20090314 10:06:17< Dragonking> Yes, like formulas that determines order in which unit formulas are executed
20090314 10:06:52< Dragonking> Like we have few units with individual formulas, but some has to move first, some latter.
20090314 10:07:01< Dragonking> later even
20090314 10:07:28< boucman> oh, that's priorities for unit formulas, Ithought it was for scored formulas
20090314 10:07:39< Dragonking> Yes. :)
20090314 10:08:02< Dragonking> Scored has score as their priorities. :)
20090314 10:08:44< Dragonking> But let's start with making global side formula and candidate moves work along 
20090314 10:20:19< CIA-70> dragonking * r33618 /trunk/src/formula_ai.cpp: Candidate moves and general side formula now work besides each other, not instead
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20090314 11:16:19< Ivanovic> moin
20090314 11:21:36< nital> why were the new backgrounds (I saw them around 1.5.9 last time) removed from the main menu?
20090314 11:22:19< mordante> Kitty was not happy how they looked so we reverted the change
20090314 11:22:19< CIA-70> ivanovic * r33619 /website/start/1.6/ (languages.conf po/pl.po po/pol.po): move polish po files for announcement to three letter code to get around browser detection for perl files...
20090314 11:23:22< mordante> Ivanovic, what's the current release plan 1.6 tomorrow?
20090314 11:27:15< CIA-70> ivanovic * r33620 /trunk/ (39 files in 25 dirs): updated Chinese (Simplified), German, Norwegian and Polish translation
20090314 11:27:17< Ivanovic> mordante: plan is to delay a little to give sirp a chance to have a look at improving the ai movement
20090314 11:28:01< CIA-70> ivanovic * r33621 /website/start/1.6/ (index.html.en index.html.pol index.html.zho po/pol.po): updated Polish announcement
20090314 11:28:35< mordante> ok
20090314 11:30:53< Ivanovic> shadow_master: regarding the fixes: i think there is no way around the & in the url
20090314 11:31:23< Ivanovic> and doing the fixes without bothering the translators is not this easy, though in theory it could probably be done with pofix.py
20090314 11:31:48< Ivanovic> some more changes will be required anyway, that is adding the real date and stuff like this
20090314 11:35:24< CIA-70> ivanovic * r33622 /website/start/1.6/ (51 files in 2 dirs): tiny typo fix in url text
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20090314 11:44:46< Ivanovic> mordante: that is i especially want this one be gone: https://gna.org/bugs/?13166
20090314 11:45:16< Ivanovic> maybe the fix will also help a little with https://gna.org/bugs/?13131
20090314 11:46:47< Ivanovic> and who knows, maybe it will also help improve https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13165
20090314 11:47:18< Ivanovic> (though strangely my code unification already helped a lot with the ai default behaviour
20090314 11:47:41< mordante> IMO not that strangely ;-)
20090314 11:47:56< mordante> don't fiddle with AI parameters without extensive testing 
20090314 11:48:58< mordante> are you planning on an extra RC or want to do 1.6 directly?
20090314 11:55:28< Ivanovic> i am not 100% sure yet
20090314 11:55:59< Ivanovic> that is: it might be a good idea to have another RC since some noteworthy fixes have already gone in
20090314 11:56:29< Ivanovic> if i hammer out 1.6 on wednesday though, this would be "too shortly" after the rc to really warrant it...
20090314 11:56:29< mordante> I've an idea how to fix https://gna.org/bugs/?13180 but it will be intrusive :-(
20090314 11:56:39< Ivanovic> oh
20090314 11:56:51< Ivanovic> what is the cause of the problem?
20090314 11:57:02< mordante> I can make sure it is only triggered when the problem occurs
20090314 11:57:11< mordante> the title of the dialog is too long
20090314 11:57:32< mordante> the old engine didn't crash but turned it into something ugly
20090314 11:57:53< mordante> so I want to rewrite a part of the layout code, which only gets executed if the assert would occur
20090314 11:58:34< CIA-70> ivanovic * r33623 /trunk/po/wesnoth-utbs/pl.po: updated Polish translation
20090314 12:00:11< Ivanovic> IMO this bug is important enough to warrant a (small) delay, since such a crash should *not* occur in 1.6
20090314 12:01:06< mordante> I agree, the bug is rather nasty
20090314 12:01:27< mordante> I have some ideas how to rewrite the layout code and it seems I need to do it for 1.6 :-(
20090314 12:02:55< Soliton> why do all these asserts trigger on user supplied data anyway? seems like that's not really what asserts are for..
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20090314 12:04:24< mordante> since the engine can't handle it, which is a bug in the engine
20090314 12:04:52< mordante> the old engine just gave up and made a mess, this engine dies
20090314 12:06:42< Soliton> would it be difficult to do something simple if wrong instead of just dying?
20090314 12:07:26< mordante> not really since the engine would not show certain widgets 
20090314 12:08:07< mordante> and then we get bug reports about them and Murphy says the most important widgets are not drawn
20090314 12:09:41< CIA-70> mordante * r33624 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/label.hpp: Remove an extra space.
20090314 12:10:28< Soliton> instead we don't even ask murphy but just die. i'm not sure that's a better solution but i guess it doesn't matter much.
20090314 12:10:36< CIA-70> mordante * r33625 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/label.hpp: Remove an unneeded semicolon.
20090314 12:10:49< CIA-70> mordante * r33626 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/control.cpp: Improve debug output.
20090314 12:11:00< mordante> well crashes get reported some missing widget might not be reported
20090314 12:11:36< mordante> if I see how many errors the old widgets can make and the number of reports I rather make sure something goes bad
20090314 12:12:01< Soliton> yeah, i suppose that makes sense.
20090314 12:12:34< mordante> but I have some more ideas to improve this issue, but that's postponed until 1.7
20090314 12:14:00< nital> Ivanovic: there's a problem with translating the announcement, look:
20090314 12:14:11< nital> http://www.wesnoth.org/start/1.6/index.html.zho
20090314 12:14:33< nital> it's the same with Polish language, the "Campaigns" part has one paragraph untranslated
20090314 12:14:45< nital> though it's translated in pol.po
20090314 12:18:34< nital> Ivanovic, sorry, I didn't know that fuzzy strings doesn't show on webpage :)
20090314 12:39:26< Ivanovic> of course they don't
20090314 12:39:32< Ivanovic> they also don't show in the normal game
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20090314 12:56:06< Ivanovic> okay, my next commit will be *HUGE*
20090314 12:56:23< Ivanovic> that is i will be removing the two fonts for japanese and chinese and replace it with one font for both
20090314 12:56:57< mordante> you mean huge again ;-)
20090314 12:59:08< Dragonking> Anyone here fammiliar with MP games and how control of the side is set to AI while creating a game?
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20090314 13:06:16< Ivanovic> mordante: this is a 7MB large new font
20090314 13:06:25< Ivanovic> and afterwards i will run a pot-update, too...
20090314 13:07:35< mordante> why am I not surprised about the pot-update
20090314 13:07:58< mordante> it's release time, which means you pump out big commits all the time ;-)
20090314 13:08:01< CIA-70> ivanovic * r33627 /trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): 
20090314 13:08:01< CIA-70> use the full version of wqy-zenhei (http://sourceforge.net/projects/wqy/) as font for all asian translations
20090314 13:08:01< CIA-70> removed sazanami-gothic.ttf and wqy-zenhei-gb2312.ttf since they are now obsolete
20090314 13:08:01< CIA-70> more information about this (inluding a list of covered languages by wqy-zenhai) in this thread on the wesnoth-i18n mailling list: http://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-i18n/2009-03/msg00018.html
20090314 13:08:26< mordante> the good thing is I'll have some commits which force to recompile everything ;-)
20090314 13:10:18< Ivanovic> :)
20090314 13:13:28 * Dragonking ran out of space for new units in formula test scenario o.O
20090314 13:21:49< CIA-70> ivanovic * r33628 /trunk/ (434 files in 10 dirs): 
20090314 13:21:49< CIA-70> pot-update (changed string for the fonts entry)
20090314 13:21:49< CIA-70> regenerated doc files
20090314 13:29:40< CIA-70> ivanovic * r33629 /website/start/1.6/ (5 files in 2 dirs): updated Russian translation of announcement
20090314 13:30:00< Ivanovic> nital: the polish announcement site should now work as expected
20090314 13:30:04< Ivanovic> http://wesnoth.org/start/1.6/index.html.pol
20090314 13:36:09< Dragonking> I think that units of a side, for which "hidden=yes" is specified should not be considered as enemies for a "normal" sides. For example when you make side consist of statues only, you want to have this side "hidden" but not treat statues as an enemies.
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20090314 14:19:05< Soliton> Dragonking: that's not a question of control but how teams are formed.
20090314 14:19:21< Soliton> Dragonking: wesnoth doesn't support what you want right now.
20090314 14:20:06< nital> Dragonking: please note that "hidden=yes" is not just for statues, it can be as well used for making two friendly red AIs look like one in status table, etc.
20090314 14:20:39< Dragonking> Soliton: ok, but then we should have something like that possible.
20090314 14:20:51< Soliton> maybe.
20090314 14:21:17< Soliton> but as nital points out the hidden attribute should have nothing to do with it.
20090314 14:21:33< Dragonking> ok, got the nital's point. :)
20090314 14:22:17< Soliton> there actually is the enemy key for side, i think which can do what you want but i doubt it works right anymore.
20090314 14:23:00< Dragonking> ok, I'll look at it later
20090314 14:23:04< Dragonking> Thanks
20090314 14:27:08< stikonas> Ivanovic: since you are delaying 1.6, maybe it is worth to mention 'Siege of Laurelmor' in the announcement. This backgroud track was added after announcement was written. Only 4 tracks are mentioned now.
20090314 14:27:37< Ivanovic> grml, has shadow_master forgotten to mention this one in the announcement text?!?
20090314 14:27:42< Ivanovic> stikonas: will add it
20090314 14:30:18< Ivanovic> and of course he has not mentioned this addition in the changelog
20090314 14:30:28 * Ivanovic slaps Shadow_Master with a huge trout
20090314 14:30:39< Ivanovic> s/huge/gigantic
20090314 14:31:25 * happygrue hopes it will never be his turn to be hit with the trout of smacking
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20090314 14:43:06< CIA-70> ivanovic * r33630 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): changelog update adding the new music piece and the "downloaded campaigns don't need a restart anymore" in the changelog(s)
20090314 14:44:05< CIA-70> ivanovic * r33631 /website/start/1.6/ (52 files in 2 dirs): there are *five* new music pieces, make sure all are listed...
20090314 14:46:36< mordante> this slowly feels like a slapstick... /me waits for piece six to pop up
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20090314 14:56:09< YogiHH> Ivanovic, you there?
20090314 14:56:37< Ivanovic> jupp
20090314 14:57:29< YogiHH> Ivanovic: i found a fix for bug #13165 but i need to go now. Can you tell Sirp that he doesn't have to look into this one anymore?
20090314 14:57:48< CIA-70> ivanovic * r33632 /trunk/po/wesnoth/ru.po: updated Russian translation
20090314 14:57:55< Ivanovic> YogiHH: post a short note
20090314 14:58:04< Ivanovic> when will you be able to upload the fix?
20090314 14:58:12< YogiHH> sunday, probably
20090314 14:58:16< Ivanovic> that is: i can poste the note in the message
20090314 14:58:20< Ivanovic> oaky, sounds great to me
20090314 14:58:34< YogiHH> nice, thanks
20090314 14:58:40< YogiHH> see you
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20090314 14:59:04< CIA-70> ivanovic * r33633 /website/start/1.6/index.html.en: also update the english html version, that one was not updated with the last commit...
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20090314 15:05:56< CIA-70> ai0867 * r33634 /trunk/po/wesnoth/nl.po: Set dutch translation fonts to new default.
20090314 15:12:34< nital> dragonking: your request has already been proposed here, anyway: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?12776
20090314 15:13:13< Dragonking> Great. :)
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20090314 15:28:58< Ivanovic> AI0867: good idea to just fix the font string
20090314 15:29:03< Ivanovic> have done so for most langs now...
20090314 15:29:16< CIA-70> ivanovic * r33635 /trunk/po/wesnoth/ (48 files): fixed the font string for most translations (left out all non chinese "asian" translations)
20090314 15:43:19< CIA-70> dragonking * r33636 /trunk/src/ (formula_ai.cpp formula_ai.hpp unit.cpp unit.hpp): Added support for prorities for unit formulas, fixed candidate moves bug that made it execute first moves with *lowest* score, initial unit modification to prepare it for on_fail formula support.
20090314 15:43:48< Dragonking> ok... one more bug spotted during recent testing...
20090314 15:44:09-!- ilor [n=user@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090314 15:44:44< Ivanovic> :)
20090314 15:46:51-!- elias [n=elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090314 15:46:57< Dragonking> Plus it would be prolly good time to introduce [ai] or [formula] tag for unit WML and keep formula-releated stuff there...
20090314 15:47:54< Ivanovic> Dragonking: then do so
20090314 15:48:02< Ivanovic> that is: i will try to get rc3 out tomorrow
20090314 15:48:19< Ivanovic> and, if the ai is in a usable state then, 1.6 on wednesday
20090314 15:48:28< Dragonking> Awesome.
20090314 15:48:30< Ivanovic> (as in "delayed 1.6 by some days")
20090314 15:48:49< Ivanovic> and yeah, i would like to see formula ai usable in 1.6
20090314 15:48:54< Dragonking> Me too
20090314 15:49:03< Dragonking> That's why I'm messing with it a lot today
20090314 15:49:06< Dragonking> And will be tomorrow
20090314 15:49:10< Ivanovic> good
20090314 15:49:23< Ivanovic> please ping me once you think you are in a state that i can tag rc3
20090314 15:49:43< Ivanovic> this bug is not fixed yet, right? https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13175
20090314 15:49:51< Dragonking> Sure, I'd say around tomorrow evening
20090314 15:49:53< Ivanovic> will you also handle it with the changes or not?
20090314 15:49:54-!- stikonas [n=stikonas@ctv-213-164-100-13.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090314 15:50:35< Dragonking> It is not fixed, actually I don't know the reason and it is code that Sirp wrote initially
20090314 15:50:50< Dragonking> Hence I assigned it to him.
20090314 15:50:59< Ivanovic> okay, thought that it was not fixed, just wanted to be 100% sure
20090314 15:51:11< Dragonking> Yup.
20090314 15:54:13-!- Shadow_Master [n=imorelle@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090314 15:55:08< Shadow_Master> is any of you using the 'prosilver' forum theme?
20090314 15:56:36< ilor> what's the url of the wesnoth gitsvn tarball?
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20090314 15:56:56< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: regarding the invalid entity, perhaps I should just edit the generated pages at the end?
20090314 15:57:32< Shadow_Master> I forgot to mention that & should be the &amp; entity in case you didn't know.
20090314 15:57:56< AI0867> wesbot: topic
20090314 15:58:03< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: regarrding Siege of Laurelmor, I added it yesterday and forgot to talk with you about changing the msgid
20090314 15:58:57< Ivanovic> and you have not listed it in the changelog
20090314 15:59:03< Shadow_Master> I was going to do it later.
20090314 15:59:31< Ivanovic> please do this directly with the commit of "something new"
20090314 15:59:35< Ivanovic> then it does not get lots
20090314 15:59:40< Ivanovic> s/lots/lost
20090314 15:59:47< Soliton> ilor: files/hidden/git/
20090314 16:00:06< Shadow_Master> eh, if I didn't forgot that when doing the commit :-)
20090314 16:00:21< Shadow_Master> anyway.  http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r176/shadowm2006/prosilver_plus_glamdrol.png
20090314 16:01:22-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.222] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090314 16:02:03< ilor> Soliton: thanks
20090314 16:02:18< Soliton> ilor: i'll update it now. if you wait a bit there'll be a new version there.
20090314 16:03:18< ilor> Soliton: oh okay, I'll wait
20090314 16:03:40 * ilor is determited to try git this weekend ;)
20090314 16:03:47< ilor> *determined -_-;
20090314 16:14:13< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: can you suggest a more or less appropriate (preferably private) place for collecting all the forum modifications and hacks we use ?
20090314 16:15:02< crimson_penguin> 1.6 still planned for tomorrow?
20090314 16:17:45< Soliton> ilor: tarball is updated.
20090314 16:20:40< Shadow_Master> huh. the subsilver2 hack is using absolute (http://www.wesnoth.org/...) paths.
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20090314 16:27:50< happygrue> crimson_penguin:  "rc3 out tomorrow and, if the ai is in a usable state then, 1.6 on wednesday"
20090314 16:28:14< crimson_penguin> oh ok
20090314 16:28:25 * crimson_penguin is flying to Vancouver on Tuesday
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20090314 16:52:32< Shadow_Master> the 1.6 announcement probably won't be done until the Debian, Windows and Mac OS X packages are ready anyway
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20090314 17:52:01< zookeeper> Shadow_Master, did you get what i suggested about the dirt trans?
20090314 17:52:20< Shadow_Master> yes. Didn't work.
20090314 17:52:54< Shadow_Master> I guess I'll just stick to my UMC-side hack
20090314 17:53:39< zookeeper> oh, right. do you also get the same problem with for example flowers?
20090314 17:53:53< zookeeper> or cave floor
20090314 17:55:08< Shadow_Master> well, I intentionally let Ryd transitions disabled for G* and U*, since that's the way Rr is done in mainline too
20090314 17:55:13< Shadow_Master> {TRANSITION_BASE          Ryd (!,Ryd,Aa,G*,U*,X*,H*,M*,Q*,C*,K*) dark-tile}
20090314 17:56:37< Shadow_Master> except that it isn't really how it is done in mainline, it just has the same effect.
20090314 17:57:25< Shadow_Master> {TRANSITION_BASE_L     Rr               (!,Rr)                      -300               flat/road}
20090314 17:57:38< Shadow_Master> the grassland transitions are declared first it seems
20090314 17:58:52< zookeeper> if you have a workaround hack then better use that for now
20090314 17:59:47< Shadow_Master> okay, if I remove the !,G* filter, I get the same problem with Ggf
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20090314 18:22:54< CIA-70> ai0867 * r33637 /trunk/data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/12.Captured.cfg: Fix EI:20 to allow enemy recruitment of units at turn 20. (possible fix for bug #13197?)
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20090314 18:30:59< Baufo> Ivanovic, can I update the man pages now or are they in string freeze too?
20090314 18:33:10-!- vivri [n=chatzill@CPE001839c50068-CM00080d747884.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090314 18:33:58< CIA-70> baufo * r33638 /trunk/src/server/sample_user_handler.hpp: remove obsolete todo
20090314 18:41:33< CIA-70> dragonking * r33639 /trunk/src/ (callable_objects.cpp formula_ai.cpp): Moved adjacent_locs form location object to separate function and fixed it. Fixed attack() function.
20090314 18:52:58< CIA-70> jorda * r33640 /website/start/1.6/ (Makefile languages.conf): (log message trimmed)
20090314 18:52:58< CIA-70> Use `.ll.html' and Apache's type map
20090314 18:52:58< CIA-70> `.ll.html' is now used instead of `.html.ll' (where ll is the language
20090314 18:52:58< CIA-70> code), since the latter causes problems with some extensions (.pl, .tr).
20090314 18:52:58< CIA-70> Additionally, the Makefile has been updated to generate a new "type map"
20090314 18:53:01< CIA-70> file, which makes it possible to keep locale names for .po files and still
20090314 18:53:03< CIA-70> use language negotiation. The list of language codes and names has been
20090314 18:55:51< CIA-70> jorda * r33641 /website/start/1.6/po/ (pl.po pol.po tr.po tur.po zh_CN.po zho.po): Move .po files to use the same name as other domains
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20090314 18:56:17< CIA-70> thespaceinvader * r33642 /trunk/data/core/images/portraits/humans/transparent/pikeman.png: Update LordBob's pikeman portrait.
20090314 18:56:49< CIA-70> baufo * r33643 /trunk/src/server/server.cpp: add query command to en/disallow login of unregistered users
20090314 18:57:14< Dragonking> fendrin: Around?
20090314 18:58:07< CIA-70> jorda * r33644 /website/start/1.6/ (9 files): Regenerate release notes
20090314 18:58:12< CIA-70> baufo * r33645 /trunk/src/server/server.cpp: typo fix...
20090314 19:04:52< CIA-70> jorda * r33646 /website/start/1.6/.htaccess: Add .htaccess file to enable the type map handler
20090314 19:07:18-!- Baufo [n=thomas@wesnoth/developer/baufo] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090314 19:09:19< CIA-70> dragonking * r33647 /trunk/data/ai/formula/ (patrol.fai scouting_eval.fai): New faifile and some fixes to current one.
20090314 19:11:26< CIA-70> dragonking * r33648 /trunk/data/scenario-formula.cfg: Improved test formula acenario by adding new units, formulas, labels
20090314 19:15:56< CIA-70> baufo * r33649 /trunk/src/server/forum_user_handler.cpp: bug fix: consider the possibilty that an unregistered nick might also authenticate as a moderator
20090314 19:17:36< CIA-70> baufo * r33650 /trunk/src/server/sample_user_handler.cpp: same fix as in r33649 for the sampel user handler
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20090314 19:26:10< CIA-70> ai0867 * r33651 /trunk/src/mouse_events.cpp: Stop an [end_turn] in a moveto event triggered by an attackmove from disabling the GUI. (bug #12714)
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20090314 19:49:03< cjhopman> is there any wml somewhere that makes an attack move a unit it hits?
20090314 19:49:56< Soliton> there is a knockback special somewhere on the forum or in ken oh's abilities era i think.
20090314 19:50:18< cjhopman> thanks, ill look for it
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20090314 20:01:37< fendrin> Dragonking: hi
20090314 20:02:16< Dragonking> fendrin: Partol unit formula is ready.
20090314 20:02:28< Dragonking> fendrin: Check the test scenario.
20090314 20:02:58< fendrin> Dragonking: thank you, I will do that this night, I have to leave home soon.
20090314 20:03:31< Dragonking> ok
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20090314 20:21:38< boucman> hey all
20090314 20:22:02-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090314 20:22:11< thespaceinvader> evening boucman 
20090314 20:23:16-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090314 20:26:09< Dragonking> hey boucman 
20090314 20:26:24< boucman> Dragonking: I see you've added a formula :)
20090314 20:26:30< Dragonking> Found nice bug in candidate moves today ;]
20090314 20:27:29< Dragonking> It chosed candidate moves with *lowest* eval, instead of the one with the highest. ;)
20090314 20:27:42< boucman> :P
20090314 20:27:46< Dragonking> boucman: Yeach, I did quite a bit of work today
20090314 20:28:19< Dragonking> Still some things to do, thinking of how to put together all these formula-things that you can define for unit
20090314 20:28:34< Dragonking> Preferable keep all under some tag like [ai] or [formula]
20090314 20:29:42< Dragonking> Also I added these priorities for unit formula, all to check in test scenario.
20090314 20:30:06< boucman> ok, I'll read all that
20090314 20:30:35< boucman> the scoring part of FAI is badly documented, but we might as well wait for it to stabilize some more before documenting it
20090314 20:31:08-!- Shadow_Master [n=imorelle@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090314 20:31:31< Dragonking> boucman: I'll improve the wiki, *after* 1.6 :)
20090314 20:31:45< boucman> yup, sounds good
20090314 20:32:26-!- Shadow_Master is now known as shadowm_outdoors
20090314 20:32:28< Dragonking> And btw
20090314 20:32:45< Dragonking> I was thinking about using this poison-thing to evaluate possible SoC candidates
20090314 20:32:57< boucman> hmm
20090314 20:33:18< boucman> Dragonking: I was thinking of having them do a "about to level" formula inspired on your poison thing...
20090314 20:33:20< Dragonking> Just asking them about "how to imptove poisoners" etc to see how 'deep' is their game sense
20090314 20:33:31< boucman> but that could work too, or be a second patch for a candidate
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20090314 20:33:40< Dragonking> Sure, sounds good
20090314 20:33:45< Dragonking> The more the better
20090314 20:34:01< boucman> Dragonking: if your formula is ready, I'd like to have it in 1.6
20090314 20:34:23< boucman> if it's not, we might want to wait post SoC candidate period and evaluate on it...
20090314 20:34:30< shadowm_outdoors> Ivanovic: can I fix the s/&/&amp;/ in the release notes or not?
20090314 20:34:48< boucman> Dragonking: if you have FAI things for EasyCoding, that would be cool
20090314 20:34:50< Dragonking> boucman: I could try to make it, but I would prefer to have it for evaluation
20090314 20:34:59< boucman> ok, you decide
20090314 20:35:23< Dragonking> It is reasonably simple imho
20090314 20:36:04< Dragonking> And I think we look for people that 1) Know C++ well 2) know wesnoth gameplay well
20090314 20:36:23< Dragonking> If the has no clue about what to do with task like "improve poisoners" then um..
20090314 20:38:10< Dragonking> I looked at barbarianhero's formulas and this scouting thing was a bit broken.
20090314 20:39:44< boucman> Dragonking: yeah, I know :(
20090314 20:40:44< Dragonking> I think that such tasks like: poison fomrula, lvlup formula, maybe healer's formula
20090314 20:40:57< Dragonking> Could be part of evaluation for candidates
20090314 20:41:39< boucman> yeah, there could even be some simple leadership case, since forumlas can return multiple moves
20090314 20:41:47< Dragonking> Yup
20090314 20:42:40< Dragonking> boucman: oh one thing, quite important
20090314 20:42:52< Dragonking> I'd like to have something like that in 1.6
20090314 20:43:05< boucman> like what ?
20090314 20:43:24< Dragonking> To be able to choose in MP game from 2 available ais - default one, and formula_ai
20090314 20:43:36< Dragonking> Latter would use my recruitment formula
20090314 20:43:54< Dragonking> But I don't know much about setting an MP game
20090314 20:43:58< CIA-70> cjhopman * r33652 /trunk/src/ (actions.cpp actions.hpp): - fix for bug with KNOCKBACK and other wml that moves units involved in an attack
20090314 20:44:23< Dragonking> There is a problem with ai_manager that has to be set to formula_ai to make fomrula_ai be used
20090314 20:44:25< boucman> Dragonking: hmm
20090314 20:44:46< boucman> I'm not sure how that could be done (esp since 1.6 should be released very soon)
20090314 20:45:12< boucman> but having a way to select different formula AI sounds VERY usefull (if not mandatory)
20090314 20:45:27< Dragonking> There is only one problem - this ai_manager thing that is easily defined
20090314 20:45:40< Dragonking> easily defined for scenarios 
20090314 20:46:15< Dragonking> Right now I tryed to ass formula_ai to ai list, but that did nothing without ai_manager set to formula_ai
20090314 20:46:45< Dragonking> And just hardcoding formula_ai manager into factions config files diesables default ai
20090314 20:47:16< Dragonking> I had no time to look deeper into it
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20090314 20:48:53< Dragonking> boucman: err sry, it is not ai_manager, it is ai_algorithm
20090314 20:48:54< boucman> Dragonking: http://wesnoth.org/wiki/EasyCoding#Improvements_to_FormulaAI
20090314 20:49:11< boucman> added a few ideas we just discussed
20090314 20:49:49< Dragonking> Great!
20090314 20:50:38< Dragonking> I wonder how many people willing to do poison thing will came with idea to prioritize poisoning of leaders or other important units like lvl2s
20090314 20:51:15< Dragonking> Healer thing is quite difficult now since healers should move last..
20090314 20:51:28< boucman> Dragonking: could you mail me your current poison formula ?
20090314 20:52:06< Dragonking> Hm, sec, maybe I'll check it's state first
20090314 20:52:50< Dragonking> boucman: bah, it got deleted 
20090314 20:53:00< Dragonking> But I can write something if you want.
20090314 20:53:25< boucman> Dragonking: if you have the time, but time is sparse right now...
20090314 20:53:26< Dragonking> Should be reasonable simple now once most of bugs are spotted
20090314 20:54:17< Dragonking> Let's see what I can do
20090314 20:54:38< Dragonking> boucman: And speaking of that MP game control thing - do you have any ideas?
20090314 20:54:51< boucman> it's an area I absolutely don't know
20090314 20:55:05< boucman> however someone recently did some cleanups in that area
20090314 20:55:13< boucman> mainly removing the darthfool ai and stuff
20090314 20:55:21< Dragonking> It was Soliton 
20090314 20:55:22< boucman> so somebody must have some clues somewhere...
20090314 20:55:39< Dragonking> He commened out 2 lines from ai's list
20090314 20:55:54< Dragonking> But adding there formula ai does not make it work unfortunately :)
20090314 20:56:25< boucman> :(
20090314 20:56:39< boucman> especially if we want to be able to "register" new AI easily
20090314 20:56:56< Dragonking> There is only one thing that needs to be done
20090314 20:57:13-!- Sirp [n=me@wesnoth/developer/dave] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090314 20:57:23< Dragonking> If "formula_ai" algorithm is set, make ai_manager=formula_ai
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20090314 20:57:32< Dragonking> Otherwise keep everything like it is noe
20090314 20:57:34< Dragonking> now'
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20090314 20:58:02< Dragonking> Just I don't know this code and had no time to look at it yet :)
20090314 20:58:18< Dragonking> And again, not ai_manager but ai_algorithm....
20090314 20:58:24< Dragonking> I'm messing these all the time :/
20090314 20:58:29< Dragonking> hi Sirp 
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20090314 21:01:34< shadowm_outdoors> Dragonking: why there's a [side]ai_algorithm=formula_ai and a [side][ai]ai_algorithm=idle_ai  ?
20090314 21:01:44< shadowm_outdoors> shouldn't both of them use the same syntax ?
20090314 21:02:31< Dragonking> Prolly should, I have no clue.
20090314 21:02:47< shadowm_outdoors> they should.
20090314 21:02:53< shadowm_outdoors> I'm trying to convince you to fix it.
20090314 21:03:14-!- [Relic] [n=[Relic]@76.229.202.137] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090314 21:03:15 * Dragonking enqueues this issue
20090314 21:03:52< shadowm_outdoors> I think we should fix it silently for 1.6.
20090314 21:04:11< shadowm_outdoors> that is: [side]ai_algorithm=formula_ai and [side][ai]ai_algorithm=formula_ai should do the same for now IMHO
20090314 21:04:13< [Relic]> Hello :)
20090314 21:05:41-!- Lord_Aether [n=castle@207.212.136.10] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090314 21:08:06< Dragonking> Another bug. :(
20090314 21:12:39 * boucman just got another FAI Easycoding idea
20090314 21:16:50< happygrue_> wesbot: seen ping
20090314 21:16:50< wesbot> happygrue_: Sorry, I don't know of ping.
20090314 21:16:57< happygrue_> what is ping's handle anyone?
20090314 21:17:24< Dragonking> boucman: Good.. I'd say in log-info mode they could print all info
20090314 21:17:24< Soliton> wesbot: seen _ping_
20090314 21:17:24< wesbot> Soliton: The person with the nick _ping_ 7d 17h ago they were seen quitting on the channel #wesnoth with the message: "Leaving"
20090314 21:18:01< happygrue_> ha, thanks
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20090314 21:46:03< CIA-70> dragonking * r33653 /trunk/src/callable_objects.cpp: Fix formula attacks member bug
20090314 21:46:30< Dragonking> ok, definiately time for a break
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20090314 22:00:55< CIA-70> fendrin * r33654 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/03_Kalian.cfg: LoW 03: Added more tracks to the music playlist.
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20090314 22:04:22< fabi> esr: ping
20090314 22:04:36< esr> ?
20090314 22:04:48< fabi> wmlflip, how is it used?
20090314 22:05:22< esr> Run it with a .cfg as command-line argument.
20090314 22:05:42< fabi> That config doesn't contain a reference to a map.
20090314 22:05:58< fabi> Without the mapsize the tool can't do what id wants do, can it?
20090314 22:06:19< esr> You give the map as the value of a switch, -m I think.  Look at the header comment.
20090314 22:07:32< fabi> esr: There is no useful header comment.
20090314 22:07:42< esr> Looking...
20090314 22:09:04< esr> You're right, I failed to document that option. I'll do so now.
20090314 22:09:18< fabi> Thank you
20090314 22:10:47< esr> Writing...
20090314 22:12:48< CIA-70> esr * r33655 /trunk/data/tools/wmlflip: Actually document a command-line switch wmlflip needs, shame on me.
20090314 22:15:48< CIA-70> fendrin * r33656 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/02_Hostile_mountains.cfg: LoW 02: Renamed a variable. That should preserve olurf's party for scenario 06.
20090314 22:16:51< CIA-70> fendrin * r33657 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/06_Acquaintance_in_Need.cfg: LoW 6: code cleanups
20090314 22:19:03< fabi> esr: wmlflip is not installed with scons install-pytools?
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20090314 22:21:03< fabi> esr: There is still no usage line, should the cfg file be the last arguement without a switch?
20090314 22:25:16< fabi> esr: wmlflip is in an endless loop.
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20090314 23:21:49< Shadow_Master> re
20090314 23:30:41< Ivanovic> Shadow_Master: i'd say "leave it be"
20090314 23:30:52< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: I'd say nope. :-/
20090314 23:31:15 * Shadow_Master grabs a XHTML validator
20090314 23:32:11< Shadow_Master> " Line 84 column 56: general entity "t" not defined and no default entity."
20090314 23:32:36< Shadow_Master> it all goes boom afterwards. Why claim that your document is truly XML if it isn't?
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20090314 23:34:27< mordante> night
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20090314 23:38:45< CIA-70> mordante * r33658 /trunk/data/tools/wmlflip: Fix a typo.
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--- Log closed Sun Mar 15 00:00:08 2009