--- Log opened Mon Mar 23 00:00:16 2009
20090323 00:00:32< Velory> u mean  -1 ? :)
20090323 00:00:43< Velory> or if command ?
20090323 00:01:52< Crab_> Velory, I mean that you should see the formula_ai.cpp - there is only one "IMPOSSIBLE MOVE ORDER - MOVE FAILED" message there. there you will be able to see what conditions lead to it.
20090323 00:02:20< Velory> Ok
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20090323 00:10:19< Eternal> Great Troll with some bling: http://imagebin.org/42338
20090323 00:10:53< Eternal> How is it? Hammer, bling and the troll itself?
20090323 00:11:07< Sapient> reminds me of King DeeDeeDee's rocket-mallet 0_o
20090323 00:12:31< Eternal> :D
20090323 00:13:32< Sapient> http://media.wii.gamespy.com/media/748/748545/img_5112770.html
20090323 00:15:43< Jetrel> eternal:  looking much nicer, but I might suggest removing the spike.
20090323 00:16:03< Jetrel> and possibly putting a pommel on the handle end.
20090323 00:16:33< Eternal> I thought of putting a pommel as well.
20090323 00:16:51< Jetrel> Eternal:  once you're done with the next revision, I want to try something with the belt.
20090323 00:17:06< Jetrel> So I'll wait till you're done with that.
20090323 00:17:34< Eternal> But I'm not sure what to do with the spike. Since the unit AFAIK is going to have a piercing attack.
20090323 00:17:46< Jetrel> What?
20090323 00:17:58< Jetrel> No, this is the regular "great troll".
20090323 00:18:41< Jetrel> I mean, unless we decided we're gonna "add" a piercing attack for varieties' sake.
20090323 00:19:22< Jetrel> Which might be good.  If so, I have an idea of how to do the spike..
20090323 00:19:33< Eternal> The pommel?
20090323 00:20:01< Jetrel> well, that was one, but another is to make the spike on the hammer look like one of those WWI german helmet spikes.
20090323 00:20:37< Jetrel> Gets skinny and then widens out.
20090323 00:21:37< Sapient> just like Oprah
20090323 00:23:03< Jetrel> Sapient wins.  xD
20090323 00:24:00-!- mhilmi [n=mhilmi@70.82.77.138] has quit []
20090323 00:26:26< PK> you could also make the ballast a spike.
20090323 00:26:59< Sapient> or make him shoot spikes out of his belly like Kraid
20090323 00:27:22< PK> or he could have harpoons shoot out of his palms, like scorpion
20090323 00:28:08< Sapient> that would be... awesome ^_^
20090323 00:28:20< PK> it would be, although I'm not sure where he'd get that ability.
20090323 00:28:34< CIA-70> alink * r34059 /trunk/data/core/units/gryphons/Gryphon.cfg: Fix another small typo in r33959. Must be added to patch #1134 for 1.6.1
20090323 00:28:35< PK> have his idle animation him pulling his face off and showing a skull.
20090323 00:28:43< PK> pretty pimp~
20090323 00:30:54< Velory> Dragonking: are you here?
20090323 00:31:21< Dragonking> sort of
20090323 00:31:54< alink> oh, so our commits show up in #commits too
20090323 00:32:17-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@66-189-40-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Hi! I'm a quit message virus vaccine. If you see a quit message virus, don't replace your quit message with it!"]
20090323 00:32:56< alink> i paste a commit about wesnoth not done by wesnoth-dev :
20090323 00:32:58< alink> [22:40:57] <CIA-41> SFE: sobi * r1778 /spec-files-extra/trunk/ (14 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20090323 00:33:00< alink> [22:40:57] <CIA-41> SFE: 2009-03-22 Petr Sobotka <sobotkap@gmail.com>
20090323 00:33:01< alink> [22:40:57] <CIA-41> SFE:  * SFEwesnoth-dev.spec: Bump to 1.6a version, which is new stable release.
20090323 00:33:03< alink> [22:40:57] <CIA-41> SFE:  But because there were several bug sunCC problems,
20090323 00:33:04< alink> [22:40:58] <CIA-41> SFE:  I'll keep it in dev spec file, until it will show
20090323 00:33:06< alink> [22:40:59] <CIA-41> SFE:  as stable enough. Also from this release autotools
20090323 00:33:08< alink> [22:41:01] <CIA-41> SFE:  should not be used at all, which is not the case for
20090323 00:34:16< alink> i still use autotools :-S
20090323 00:35:18< PK> so when's 2.0 coming out, yanno the one where trolls shoot lasers out of their eyes and mages have homing missiles.
20090323 00:37:02< Velory> Dragonking:i think the errors which im taking is not my code problem cause my code just returning -1 from conditionals problem is starting after -1 returned i think
20090323 00:37:29< Eternal> Great Troll with a normal hammer. Pommeled and all. Show me your belt magic, Jet: http://imagebin.org/42340
20090323 00:38:02< Velory> because im taking IMPOSSIBLE MOVE ORDER - MOVE FAILED if unit is undead and no other units around
20090323 00:39:02< Jetrel> Eternal:  I see.
20090323 00:39:25< Velory> Dragonking:if 2 unit im not taking this problem or if unit is not immune to poison so my code is working but there is something if my code returns -1 
20090323 00:39:32< Crab_> Velory, see the values of move->src() and move->dst() and see what unit is standing on them, if any.
20090323 00:39:39< loonycyborg> alink: silene uses autotools too.
20090323 00:39:47< Dragonking> Velory: Remove other formulas from scenario and test it again.
20090323 00:39:54< thespaceinvader> Eternal: that hammer still looks vast
20090323 00:39:56< Sapient> Eternal: that looks good... does it fit in hex?
20090323 00:39:58< Dragonking> Just keep your poison thing.
20090323 00:40:03< Velory> Dragonking:Ok
20090323 00:40:13< thespaceinvader> and still lacks the back spike
20090323 00:40:18< Eternal> Sapient: Nope. No chance.
20090323 00:40:34< alink> loonycyborg: yes and Mordante too
20090323 00:41:09< Sapient> thespaceinvader: back spike was removed on purpose, as per Jet
20090323 00:41:43< alink> loonycyborg: I suppose that sobotkap guy was scared by the 'warning obsolete' message displayed there
20090323 00:41:46< Sapient> also, "vast" is one of Eternal's specialties ;)
20090323 00:42:13< thespaceinvader> oop, missed that
20090323 00:42:35< thespaceinvader> yeah, the spike -for-an-additional pierce attack wasn't completely certain
20090323 00:42:39< thespaceinvader> but it's still a nice idea
20090323 00:42:59< Velory> Dragonking:Yes worked
20090323 00:43:06< thespaceinvader> i really like the bling though - it almost looks like it might be tattooed on
20090323 00:43:26< thespaceinvader> which would be cool - i can imagine trolls doing somethign akin to tattoos using molten metal
20090323 00:43:36< Dragonking> btw, Velory, Crab_, today I decided that I'll also try to apply for wesnoth SoC AI-releated project. So I won't be good person to talk to in terms what to improve etc, tho I can still help you regarding questions of already implemented things and how stuff should work considering wesnoth gameplay - like what kind of scenarios consider while looking for bugs or something.
20090323 00:43:40< alink> loonycyborg: ah no sorry, it has be tuned down. Now it's just : "Due to this, autotools might be become deprecated."
20090323 00:44:13< loonycyborg> alink: To which repo was that commit?
20090323 00:44:24< Crab_> Dragonking: good. thanks for informing. good luck to  you :)
20090323 00:44:34< Dragonking> Thanks, you too. :)
20090323 00:44:38< alink> loonycyborg: you have as much info as me, but i am googling
20090323 00:44:52< Velory> Dragonking:Same wishes :)
20090323 00:45:06< Dragonking> :)
20090323 00:45:12< Velory> Dragonking:But its worked when i delete :)
20090323 00:45:25< Dragonking> Velory: Then there is error in other formula
20090323 00:45:46< Velory> Dragonking:Oh i see i think it can be move={....}
20090323 00:46:02< Dragonking> It has to be move somewhere.
20090323 00:46:09< Dragonking> Or move partial if it's used.
20090323 00:46:22< Velory> yes its move in there
20090323 00:46:32< Velory> in scenario_formula
20090323 00:47:08< Velory> Dragonking:btw may wesnoth apply 2,3 student to Ai idea? or just 1 ?
20090323 00:47:21< Velory> i mean Ai-relation idea
20090323 00:47:26< Crab_> Velory: or 0 :) 
20090323 00:47:36< Dragonking> Depends how many good proposals we have how many slots etc
20090323 00:47:46< alink> ah that commit was from Pietro
20090323 00:47:50< Dragonking> Last year there were 2 slots for AI
20090323 00:47:57< loonycyborg> alink: http://pkgbuild.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pkgbuild?view=rev&revision=1778
20090323 00:48:07< Dragonking> But I doubt that it will be the case this year too.
20090323 00:48:14< Velory> Dragonking:I see because if 1 slot to ai i dont have any chance i think :)
20090323 00:48:31< Velory> Dragonking: So if its 2 i think you and Crab_ :D
20090323 00:48:34< alink> loonycyborg: thanks
20090323 00:48:48< Sirp> I would be very very hesitant to apply 2 slots to the AI. We did that last year and I don't think our experience with that was all that great.
20090323 00:49:10< Sirp> but it really ultimately depends on how many slots we get in total, and the quality of applications in each slot.
20090323 00:49:18< Dragonking> Yes... outcome was not something that we expected unfortunately..
20090323 00:49:33< alink> cmake specialist, from previous link ^ (testing Scons, if there is any cmake specialist I would welcome help to get cmake working;-)
20090323 00:49:41< Crab_> Dragonking: what happened ?
20090323 00:50:06< Dragonking> Crab_: It was supposed to be like that: After SoC we have 2 students working on a fai.
20090323 00:50:20< Dragonking> But since one student failed, he disapeared immidiately.
20090323 00:50:44< Sirp> the big thing is that AI is VERY hard work, and even worse, it's very hard to measure progress well.
20090323 00:50:45< Dragonking> So most of work since SoC I did by myself.
20090323 00:51:09< Sirp> so I think Dragonking did well last year, but what he ended up with was, I think, quite different in many ways from what we originally planned.
20090323 00:51:26-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has quit ["night all"]
20090323 00:51:42< Sirp> I really do not like this kind of thing for something like Summer of Code, since it's so hard to keep track of students and make a pass/fail decision. Managing two or more students on doing AI is really hard work and hard to keep track of and to monitor collaboration between them.
20090323 00:52:14< Crab_> Sirp: yes, writing AI is hard. btw, is there any database of good mp replays ? I'm thinking about the possibility of testing AI position evaluation using them.
20090323 00:53:09-!- happygrue [n=George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit ["http://xkcd.com/91/"]
20090323 00:53:47< Velory> Sirp:I see u are right
20090323 00:54:20< Sirp> Crab_: no I'm afraid there is no database like that
20090323 00:54:23< Tesafilmchen> Crab_: you could try the ladder database
20090323 00:55:21< Sirp> oh yes, Tesafilmchen is right in that regard.
20090323 00:55:21< Crab_> Tesafilmchen. thanks. found it.
20090323 00:55:44-!- PK [n=pk@r74-192-44-206.vctrcmta01.vctatx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit ["Java user signed off"]
20090323 00:55:45< alink> wesbot bug 13242
20090323 00:55:46< wesbot> Bug #13242  Assigned to: None  Status: None  Priority: 5 - Normal
20090323 00:55:46< wesbot> Summary: graphics bug with shaman/forest/orc scout
20090323 00:55:46< wesbot> Original submission: After the scout was slowed by an elven shaman, his face w
20090323 00:55:49< wesbot> as obscured behind a forest tile. Screen shot provided shows the end result. The
20090323 00:55:52< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?13242
20090323 00:56:03-!- PK [n=pk@r74-192-44-206.vctrcmta01.vctatx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 00:56:08< alink> ^submitter forgot to post the screenshot   :-/
20090323 00:57:30< Velory> Sirp:so it seems i dont have too much chance to get acception but i want to stay as ai developer if i can,and i dont have any time to look other gsoc applications unfortunately :( anyway i will upload my patch :)
20090323 00:57:55-!- happygrue [n=George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 00:58:30< Sirp> Velory: well we always love people who have an attitude that they want to stay with our project whether they are accepted into SoC or not. Ideally anyone applying for SoC is really really interested in the project they are applying to and really want to develop on it. Hopefully they see SoC just as a way to enable that.
20090323 01:00:05< Sirp> btw for anyone interested in the stats system, this is something I hacked up today...
20090323 01:00:07< Sirp> http://www.wesnoth.org/cgi-bin/stats/usage-1.6.pl
20090323 01:00:17< Sirp> it shows a graph, a bar for every hour, showing how many scenarios have been completed using newly released 1.6
20090323 01:00:40< Sirp> we are hoping the stats system will allow all sorts of interesting graphs like this to be easily created.
20090323 01:00:40< Velory> wow
20090323 01:00:49< AI0867> 22:57 < Sapient> AI0867: um... why did you remove the name of the event from line 720? <-- I don't believe I removed anything?
20090323 01:01:17< Sapient> AI0867: yeah, I got confused due to my diff program
20090323 01:02:29< alink> Sirp: the last line is lower, is it the current hour or the previous (complete) one ?
20090323 01:02:32< chains> Sirp have you considered graphing things from multiplayer games?
20090323 01:04:21< alink> oh and i wonder, maybe it's a super good player who end all these scenarios at very high speed  ;-p
20090323 01:04:33< Jetrel> Eternal:  sorry I got distracted.
20090323 01:04:47-!- noy [n=Noy@70.70.128.133] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 01:05:19< voris> Now that 1.6 is released as stable, is it correct to say autotools is deprecated, period, rather than saying "in the development branch" it is deprecated?
20090323 01:05:55< alink> AFAIK autotools is not deprecated
20090323 01:06:06 * Blueblaze used it to compile 1.6a
20090323 01:06:36 * voris notes that "deprecated" and "it works" are not necessarily incompatible phrases...
20090323 01:06:40< voris> But ok. :)
20090323 01:06:54< Blueblaze> That is true :P
20090323 01:07:55< Velory> How can i detacg files in https://gna.org/patch/?1138
20090323 01:07:56< alink> yes but just today, i managed to figure an old problem with wesnoth autotools + kdevelop, so let me enjoy it a little more :)
20090323 01:08:03< Velory> s/detacg/detach
20090323 01:08:09< voris> heh
20090323 01:08:28< PK> voris: deprecated military equipment is often used in war, such as the russians who had spears to fight tanks in WWI.
20090323 01:08:44< alink> Velory: you must hack the gna site
20090323 01:08:52< Velory> haha :D
20090323 01:09:27< alink> Velory: more seriously, even normal dev can't do that
20090323 01:09:29< Eternal> Jetrel: No problem. I'm getting really tired so I'm off for some sleep.
20090323 01:09:37-!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090323 01:09:38< Jetrel> Eternal:  wait
20090323 01:09:39< Velory> Ok
20090323 01:09:40< voris> I'm just looking at the wiki compile page which has been saying it's deprecated "in development version" throughout the 1.5 march to 1.6.
20090323 01:09:46< Eternal> Jetrel: Ok...
20090323 01:09:53< alink> Velory: wait i see a button that i never see before
20090323 01:09:57< Jetrel> Eternal:  I'm halfways done - will be done in 5min
20090323 01:10:12< alink> Velory: which file do you want to remove ?
20090323 01:10:23< Velory> ok 
20090323 01:10:28< Eternal> Jetrel: Ok, good. I'll dance disco for 5m.
20090323 01:10:54< Velory> i added .patch files so poisoner_attack.fai poisoner_eval.fai scenario-formula.cfgisnt necesarry
20090323 01:11:03< Velory> i want to delete them
20090323 01:11:26< alink> I wonder if this trashbin icon there is to delete it or flag it as spam (like in comment)
20090323 01:11:45< Blueblaze> Eternal: Disco? So that's the secret to good artistic talent -_-
20090323 01:11:49< alink> ah it's for delete
20090323 01:12:12< alink> Velory: I try, sure that you want to delete it ?
20090323 01:13:01< Eternal> Blueblaze: That, and doing hours of creative working on a daily basis.
20090323 01:13:02< alink> wait the 3 of them ? but then there is no patch anymore
20090323 01:14:19< Velory> no
20090323 01:14:26< Velory> im trying 
20090323 01:14:39< Velory> to delete just .fai files
20090323 01:14:41< Velory> and .cfg
20090323 01:14:51< alink> Velory: after some thinking, I prefer don't delete anything, even if i just dicover that I can. "With great power, come great responsability"
20090323 01:15:16< Velory> ok you know
20090323 01:15:21< alink> + these files don't bother, just post a comment to clarify if needed
20090323 01:15:24< Blueblaze> Eternal: I doubt that last one works, I'll stick to my theory of disco
20090323 01:15:34< Eternal> :D
20090323 01:15:38< Jetrel> Eternal:  here we go
20090323 01:15:48< turin> Eternal: uh, the size of that hammer-head on the last image you linked to is a joke, right...?
20090323 01:15:50< Velory> and there is clicked Post a comment but i cant post it :D
20090323 01:16:05< Velory> s/there is/ i 
20090323 01:16:31-!- ilor [n=user@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has quit []
20090323 01:17:05< Velory> ok posted
20090323 01:17:40< Jetrel> Eternal:  http://www.allacrost.org/staff/user/jetryl/Great-Troll_normal.png
20090323 01:17:52< Eternal> turin: Nope. That's as small as I'm willing to make it.
20090323 01:17:54< Jetrel> turin:  no, it's not a joke. this is the level 3 great troll.
20090323 01:18:12< Jetrel> This is a troll *hero*, and the biggest it gets.
20090323 01:18:12< Eternal> awesome belt Jetrel
20090323 01:18:16< alink> hehe and preventing people to delete their patch incitate them to polish it well before posting it :-p
20090323 01:18:32< turin> uh... right. you've seen this thread right? :P http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24567&start=0
20090323 01:18:57< Tesafilmchen> anyone here who have a gna account and can file a bug?
20090323 01:19:07< Jetrel> turin:  this troll should look like he can lift a house off its foundation.  This is *NOT* a human.
20090323 01:19:20< turin> fair enough
20090323 01:19:43< Jetrel> I mean, it's the level-3 troll warrior exaggerated into hero form.
20090323 01:19:46< Crab_> Tesafilmchen: I can. but it is easy to create a gna account.
20090323 01:20:09< turin> a hunk of solid metal that big would weight... what? a few hundred pounds?
20090323 01:20:11< Tesafilmchen> mmmh :)
20090323 01:20:11< Blueblaze> Tesafilmchen: You can create one easily :P
20090323 01:20:18< Blueblaze> And Crab_ beat me to it :(
20090323 01:20:26< Tesafilmchen> hehe
20090323 01:20:27< alink> Tesafilmchen: + we may assume that you will find more than 1 bug ;)
20090323 01:20:42< cjhopman> cpu profiling of 2 ais fighting http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~hopman/pprof-wesnoth-cp.pdf
20090323 01:20:42< Tesafilmchen> mmh just found an unfair one
20090323 01:20:46< Blueblaze> As well, the most important aspect is that if you have an account, you can follow up on the bug
20090323 01:20:59< cjhopman> not as interesting as the heap profiling as almost all the time is spent in displaying stuff
20090323 01:21:03< Blueblaze> Since, some bugs require more information, etc..
20090323 01:21:06< Tesafilmchen> but im not an programmer  :)
20090323 01:21:15< Eternal> turin: enough to squish a spearman by just dropping it on him
20090323 01:21:16< Tesafilmchen> ok ill give gna a try ^^
20090323 01:21:33< Eternal> I guess the handle is some really tough wood.
20090323 01:21:34< alink> an "unfair" bug ? What is a fair bug ?
20090323 01:21:37< Blueblaze> lol
20090323 01:21:44< Blueblaze> One that messes up everyone's computer alink
20090323 01:21:50 * voris has his suspicions but keeps them to himself
20090323 01:21:51< Blueblaze> Unfair bugs only mess up one players :(
20090323 01:22:07< cjhopman> except for one thing, almost 7% of the time is spent in image::locator::value::operator<
20090323 01:22:13< turin> you could make it more realistic by having the handle be metal as well... well, actually I'm not sure that would be more realistic. no real way to have a hammer that big be realistic.
20090323 01:22:31< Blueblaze> turin: You saw my frying pan I posted?
20090323 01:22:36< Blueblaze> I'm quite sure someone can make a hammer that big :P
20090323 01:22:40< alink> Blueblaze: ah for MP indeed. I was thinking only as coder, sorry
20090323 01:23:03< turin> Blueblaze, the question is whether the wood handle would break when he picked it up due to too much torque, and I think it probably would.
20090323 01:23:43< Blueblaze> turin: It's magic troll wood that only trolls can carve and hold :P
20090323 01:23:59< Eternal> :D
20090323 01:24:40< turin> maybe it's made of wose corpses
20090323 01:24:57< Blueblaze> Ahh, that's an even better idea
20090323 01:25:03< Eternal> perhaps; the best of the best
20090323 01:25:13< Blueblaze> It has to be ancient wose corpses too
20090323 01:25:28< Eternal> or a troll like that could just swing an ancient wose
20090323 01:25:37 * Blueblaze remembers an image of that
20090323 01:25:39< Eternal> which, if willing, would swing his arms
20090323 01:26:17< Blueblaze> That reminds me of an image someone made of a wose holding a wooden club :P
20090323 01:26:28< Blueblaze> And I think it had a wooden shield too
20090323 01:26:48< Crab_> Blueblaze: maybe it grew a shield and a club :) ?
20090323 01:28:11< Eternal> A wose with wooden weapons is quite absurd.
20090323 01:28:32< Sapient> lol
20090323 01:28:39< Eternal> Them being guardians of nature and all.
20090323 01:29:08< Tesafilmchen> could someone point me into the direction where the "REPORT BUG"-button on gna is? im a bit lost there :P
20090323 01:29:26< Crab_> Tesafilmchen, bugs -> submit
20090323 01:29:37< voris> In the menu at the top is a "Bugs" menu item.
20090323 01:29:38< alink> Tesafilmchen: https://gna.org/bugs/?func=additem&group=wesnoth
20090323 01:29:38< Crab_> Tesafilmchen, https://gna.org/bugs/?func=additem&group=wesnoth
20090323 01:29:48< Crab_> and now alink beat me to it :) hehe
20090323 01:29:57< voris> heh
20090323 01:29:57< Tesafilmchen> ah thx alot
20090323 01:30:19< alink> Dont click on his link, it's a trap, use mine 
20090323 01:30:34< Eternal> I'm off. 2:30 is nighty night time.
20090323 01:30:37< Blueblaze> alink: Only a person whose link was a trap would say that
20090323 01:30:43< Eternal> Bye.
20090323 01:30:49-!- Eternal [i=HEterno@dsl-jnsbrasgw2-ff64c000-11.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["zzz"]
20090323 01:34:06< Zen_Clark> Would it be possible to rewrite the game engine in something like perl or java? Though C#.net would also be a pretty nice setup too...
20090323 01:34:36< alink> everything is possible...
20090323 01:34:53< alink> but we must not do everything
20090323 01:34:55< Sapient> Zen_Clark: why not python?
20090323 01:35:09< voris> lisp
20090323 01:35:13< alink> WML
20090323 01:35:18< Zen_Clark> I was making a joke.
20090323 01:35:19< Sapient> alink wins
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20090323 01:36:33< alink> Sorry, people sometimes said that seriously
20090323 01:36:40< Sapient> now we just need something that compiles WML to machine code
20090323 01:36:45< voris> Absurdly often.
20090323 01:36:55< Zen_Clark> boom chicka wah wah
20090323 01:37:38< alink> Sapient : more seriously I was thinking to provide a WML interface to SDL stuff for the story animations. If advanced enough, someone could code a mini wesnoth there purely in WML
20090323 01:37:47< alink> (someone crazy)
20090323 01:37:50< voris> Machine code? But *I* want to play the game!
20090323 01:37:53< Crab_> alink, imagine a javascript frontend to wesnoth :) a web-based version (with a server being based on current wesnoth code)
20090323 01:38:20< Zen_Clark> Does the dev team include anyone with compiler experience?
20090323 01:38:36< Sapient> I specialized in Compilers&interpreters
20090323 01:38:48< Zen_Clark> O.k.
20090323 01:39:30< Sapient> and wrote a compiler for the "Tiger" language using SML
20090323 01:39:45< Sapient> (Tiger was a language invented for purposes of the class)
20090323 01:40:09< Zen_Clark> Could you write a compiler for lolcode?
20090323 01:41:55< Sapient> according to wikipedia, "several functioning interpreters and compilers already exist"
20090323 01:42:18< Sapient> so yeah'
20090323 01:42:18< alink> and how much softwares ?
20090323 01:42:19< Zen_Clark> Really? I thought they were just in a very proto/alpha stage.
20090323 01:43:40< Crab_> Zen_Clark, http://lolcode.com/implementations/implementations
20090323 01:44:59< Zen_Clark> Don't see any real compilers, mostly just translaters and a couple simple interpreters...
20090323 01:46:11< voris> There is also a LOLCODE compiler included with the Parrot virtual machine as one of the languages demonstrating the use of Parrot's compiler tools.
20090323 01:46:21< voris> (from wikipedia)
20090323 01:47:21< alink> Tesafilmchen: thanks for reporting the bug on gna :)
20090323 01:47:40< Tesafilmchen> alink: thx too :)
20090323 01:47:51< Sirp> chains: stats from multiplayer games are not recorded.
20090323 01:48:05< Tesafilmchen> alink: i hope i did all fine
20090323 01:48:09< chains> I know they aren't 
20090323 01:48:16< chains> thats why I asked if you were interested in doing it ;) 
20090323 01:48:31< Sirp> alink: the last line is typically the current hour, which will end on the hour. However, things have now started to go down from their peak, since Europeans have started to go to bed.
20090323 01:49:18< chains> multiplayer stats would allow for the game to be balanced more easily. 
20090323 01:49:52< alink> Sirp: or start to win less because they are tired ;)
20090323 01:50:30< Sapient> chains: are you sure about that?
20090323 01:50:38< happygrue> chains: yes and no, I think that it is a real problem to do balancing when changes are made all the time
20090323 01:50:49< alink> and US must peak around now, no ?
20090323 01:50:50< happygrue> based on stats like 'wins on map X"
20090323 01:51:08< happygrue> perhaps it would be somewhat useful though
20090323 01:51:16< Sapient> since the players would all be anonymous, it would be difficult to account for disparities in skill
20090323 01:51:33< alink> Tesafilmchen: I see what you mean with unfair, indeed, it is unfair
20090323 01:51:45< happygrue> Sapient: that also.
20090323 01:52:06< chains> For example. 
20090323 01:52:07< Blueblaze> Sapient: Can you look at this and tell me what's wrong? http://pastebin.com/m7a5955a I'm trying to make a unit create on a random terrain that isn't deep water or cave wall, the create macro I'm using is: {CREATE_UNIT TYPE SIDE X Y}
20090323 01:52:21< chains> If you count the number of times x unit was recruited
20090323 01:52:28< chains> and it turns out its almost never recruited in multi player games
20090323 01:52:42< chains> you would have reason to suspect that the unit might be underpowered 
20090323 01:52:46< chains> or visa versa. 
20090323 01:52:47< chains> Also 
20090323 01:52:52< chains> if you tracked the winner of a game
20090323 01:52:58< chains> you could compare unit choices from winner to loser. 
20090323 01:53:05< chains> lets say 10,000 games are played drake vs undead
20090323 01:53:17< chains> and the drake won 6000 of the games while undead only takes 4000 
20090323 01:53:29< happygrue> chains: that is interesting... but sapient still makes a good point
20090323 01:53:31< chains> you have proof that undead needed a little something in that matchup (and you could compare it across maps) 
20090323 01:53:42< Sapient> Blueblaze: I don't see anything wrong with it. Is it storing any locations?
20090323 01:53:45< chains> Its how warcraft was balanced. 
20090323 01:53:56< chains> At the least we should give ourselves a chance to look at the numbers
20090323 01:54:05< chains> if the devs want to ignore the numbers once they have them, thats cool. 
20090323 01:54:19< Crab_> chains: it's hard to balance based on those stats. but, IMO, it is interesting to get those stats, even if you aren't sure what to do with them.
20090323 01:54:31< happygrue> chains: looking at the numbers would be interesting at the very least, I agree
20090323 01:54:43< chains> maybe all the stats let you know is "map xyz" tends to favor drakes. 
20090323 01:54:45< chains> let doc know that 
20090323 01:54:46< happygrue> I just have doubts that it will be really useful.  I could be wrong
20090323 01:54:58< chains> and sure enough he finds something that drakes were exploiting that he hadn't had time to look at .
20090323 01:55:09< happygrue> but the number of players who are 'good' is far fewer than the players who have no clue what they are doing... 
20090323 01:55:19< chains> well 
20090323 01:55:24< chains> you can track that too happy; )
20090323 01:55:28< happygrue> hehe
20090323 01:55:30< chains> thats what blizzard did. 
20090323 01:55:32< happygrue> well, perhaps so.
20090323 01:55:35< chains> track the players who always win
20090323 01:55:38< chains> then see what they do. 
20090323 01:55:45< happygrue> then it might be useful, if it was detailed enough that you could control for that
20090323 01:56:05< happygrue> that might be quite useful actually.
20090323 01:56:07< Crab_> chains, maybe its worth to add this idea to http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SoC_Ideas_Stats_Server ? 
20090323 01:56:08< chains> I heard dauntless commenting today that doc took away some of his favorite exploits on den of onis ;) 
20090323 01:56:32< happygrue> chains: I have been complaining about onis for years ;)
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20090323 01:56:52< chains> I avoid the problem by never playing it :P 
20090323 01:57:25< Sirp> chains: you can discuss the idea of recording multiplayer stats with noy
20090323 01:57:28< happygrue> heh
20090323 01:58:07< chains> Yes sir. 
20090323 02:00:16 * voris is happy to note that "unfair bug" did not mean "the game is too random". ;)
20090323 02:00:28< Blueblaze> Sapient: It stores all the locatons fine, and it selects one from the stored list, it's just it's not creating the unit
20090323 02:01:01< alink> Tesafilmchen: ok, i confirm your bug, and will now show you an advantage to the gna's registration: mail about update for your bug
20090323 02:01:43< Sapient> Blueblaze: aha...  use $unitplacement[$random].x
20090323 02:01:54< Sapient> you are missing the leading $
20090323 02:02:02 * voris *knew* he shouldn't have used fake-address@example.com for his gna registration...
20090323 02:02:34< alink> Tesafilmchen: Do you think that add a faction column for all clients would be a good idea (showing random when it's the case) ?
20090323 02:03:36< Tesafilmchen> alink: ah got mails  :D
20090323 02:04:03< Blueblaze> Sapient: Better :) thanks
20090323 02:05:02< Tesafilmchen> alink: yea, but i dont know anymore how it was solved under 1.4, never looked at this feature explicitly
20090323 02:05:27< alink> well, i just changed the status to "confirmed", but if you were not on IRC, i could posting a question in comment, you will get the mail and possibly reply
20090323 02:05:36< alink> s/posting/post
20090323 02:05:50-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 02:05:52< alink> that is why anonymous bugreport are annoying
20090323 02:06:02< Shadow_Master> Jetrel: there?
20090323 02:06:22< alink> like the previous one : https://gna.org/bugs/?13242
20090323 02:07:10-!- res|laptop [n=res@pdpc/supporter/student/res2k] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090323 02:07:11< Shadow_Master> btw, some people still don't get used to the new shadow color :p
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20090323 02:09:50< alink> Tesafilmchen: mmh there is a faction column in 1.4, maybe someone removed it for a reason, but not sure
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20090323 02:10:39< Tesafilmchen> alink: would be nice to have it back :)
20090323 02:12:08< alink> Tesafilmchen: I agree, i can't think of a reason.
20090323 02:12:10< Tesafilmchen> alink: or a picture of the race+dice in it, something that points the player that he is not playing random
20090323 02:14:11< alink> yes maybe, but we don't have nice picture for race (at least, if we don't want confusion with leader image)
20090323 02:15:15< alink> but indeed just put a dice on the leader's face is maybe enough :)
20090323 02:17:25< alink> No, i take back. We need the faction column. You can play a white mage leader in two factions, if we just show the leader, the faction will be hidden.
20090323 02:17:44< alink> Or do we consider that a MP feature ?
20090323 02:18:11< voris> What did it do in 1.4.7? Just show the text name of the faction in a column?
20090323 02:18:24< alink> yes seems so
20090323 02:18:33< Shadow_Master> um?
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20090323 02:22:16< Crab_> good night
20090323 02:22:22< Sapient> gn, Crab
20090323 02:22:25< alink> gn Crab_
20090323 02:22:26-!- Crab_ [n=crab_@62.80.175.218] has quit ["Leaving."]
20090323 02:22:43< Shadow_Master> Sapient: I fixed the wiki lank
20090323 02:22:49< Shadow_Master> er. article.
20090323 02:23:40< Shadow_Master> this time with Accurate Info(tm)
20090323 02:24:47< happygrue> Sapient: how hard would it be to make changes to timer settings persistent?  
20090323 02:24:51< Sapient> thanks, Shikadi
20090323 02:24:52 * happygrue runs and hides
20090323 02:25:11< Sapient> happygrue: there is a very easy way for that
20090323 02:25:27< Sapient> remember_timer_settings=yes  in your preferences.ini file
20090323 02:25:47< happygrue> currently, it remembers if you use a timer last game, but not what settings you used, which is not ideal behavior I think
20090323 02:25:52< happygrue> ah
20090323 02:25:53< Sapient> it really deserves an advances setting, though
20090323 02:26:07< Sapient> the default is to reset it every time you restart Wesnoth
20090323 02:26:10< happygrue> so you can change it manually, but not via menu?
20090323 02:26:14< Sapient> right
20090323 02:26:18< happygrue> I see
20090323 02:26:26< happygrue> yeah, it deserves an option I think
20090323 02:26:35< Sapient> there is a good reason why it resets by default
20090323 02:26:47< Sapient> it has been discussed in MP Dev
20090323 02:27:07< happygrue> hmmm, I don't recall
20090323 02:27:09< CIA-70> loonycyborg * r34060 /trunk/ (SConstruct scons/lua.py): Added a custom check for lua.
20090323 02:27:33< Shadow_Master> Sapient: what do you think about http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24591 ?
20090323 02:27:34< Sapient> eventually it needs its own pop-up dialog, including a "Reset Defaults" button
20090323 02:27:51< Sapient> until then, we need to auto reset it to protect people from their own changes
20090323 02:28:00< happygrue> Sapient: what about a checkbox with the timer settings that says "remember these settings next time"  ?
20090323 02:28:02< voris> he
20090323 02:28:10< happygrue> and then if not checked it will default back
20090323 02:28:18< Dragonking> night everyone
20090323 02:28:21< Sapient> happygrue: no
20090323 02:28:22< happygrue> night
20090323 02:28:37< Sapient> we do not need any more clutter in the MP Create screen
20090323 02:28:44< happygrue> very well
20090323 02:28:54< Sapient> like I sais, eventually timer needs its own pop-up dialog
20090323 02:28:58< happygrue> as long as I can set it in my own preferences I am happy ;)
20090323 02:29:03 * happygrue nods
20090323 02:31:08< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: have you sent a notification to Torangan to fix the layout of  WesCamp-i18n for the 1.6 release?
20090323 02:31:27< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: e.g. look at this: http://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/?package=allun&order=trans&version=branch
20090323 02:31:39< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: compare: http://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/?version=trunk&package=allun
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20090323 02:44:11 * PK wonders why 1.4x hasn't been shut down now that 1.6 is available.
20090323 02:46:38< Shadow_Master> PK: it will not be until *1.8* is available
20090323 02:47:03< Shadow_Master> there are many 1.4 users out there, including the Debian stable ('lenny') users
20090323 02:48:03< PK> I know there are users
20090323 02:48:07< PK> thats why I was wondering.
20090323 02:48:18< Shadow_Master> while there are users, it won't be shutdown
20090323 02:48:31< PK> but if you shut it down, wouldn't they update >>
20090323 02:48:38< Shadow_Master> not necessarily.
20090323 02:49:10< Shadow_Master> they'd most likely come en masse to the forums wielding pitchforks and torches
20090323 02:49:41< PK> wasn't 1.2 shut off when 1.4 became open? >>
20090323 02:51:00< Shadow_Master> I don't think so. IIRC it was shutdown when Wesnoth.org died on July 2008
20090323 02:51:18< Shadow_Master> when the site was recovered the 1.2 server wasn't brought up again, that's what I remember
20090323 02:51:26< Shadow_Master> </probably_inaccurate_info>
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20090323 02:56:14< Sapient> crud... I do not look forward to building yet another dependency for wesnoth
20090323 02:56:33< Sapient> this junk is getting old
20090323 02:56:39< Shadow_Master> *really evil laughter*
20090323 02:56:57< Sapient> I'm downloading the LUA sources now
20090323 02:56:59< alink> LUAHAHA
20090323 02:57:33< Sapient> I guess there is no option to disable it? --DHAVE_LUA ?
20090323 02:57:47< Sapient> I think that may be easier for me to code
20090323 02:57:54< Shadow_Master> we'll make sure it turns into an essential dependency then
20090323 02:57:54< Shadow_Master> ;)
20090323 02:58:10< Sapient> I think it should be optional, personally
20090323 02:58:14< Sapient> just like python was
20090323 02:58:49< Shadow_Master> tbh I'm not a supporter of introducing foreign scripting languages to wesnoth.
20090323 02:59:24< Sapient> TBH, I only support LUA as an AI programming language, not a WML Replacement
20090323 03:01:09< Sapient> I would have rejected that patch if it didn't include a HAVE_LUA flag, personally
20090323 03:01:42< Blueblaze> PK: 1.4x won't be shut down probably until it's not used anymore
20090323 03:02:11< Shadow_Master> the grand crash must've been a nice opportunity. None of the official (not alternative) servers were used back then :)
20090323 03:02:29-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit []
20090323 03:02:49 * Shadow_Master pokes Jetrel again
20090323 03:03:03< Blueblaze> As long as we're able, there's no need to force people off 1.4 servers, as not everyone can upgrade for various reasons (not able to compile thus it's not availiable on their OS, they have dialup thus downloading takes them too long, etc..)
20090323 03:03:06 * Shadow_Master also pokes ettin, he may be helpful too.
20090323 03:03:10< Jetrel> Shadow_Master:  be fast, I have a friend over and need to go back to being social
20090323 03:03:16< Blueblaze> Jetrel: liar
20090323 03:03:27< Shadow_Master> Jetrel: the site's navbar has an old version of the wesnoth logo.
20090323 03:03:28< Shadow_Master> http://www.wesnoth.org/mw/skins/glamdrol/wesnoth-logo.jpg
20090323 03:03:42< Shadow_Master> can it be replaced with the crossed-swords version or is there any objection at your side?
20090323 03:04:07< Jetrel> it can, but I'm indifferent.  I figure I'll deal with it when groovy does the better shield.
20090323 03:04:09< Shadow_Master> or, was it on purpose? I don't know how I didn't notice it before.
20090323 03:04:14< Shadow_Master> ah, okay...
20090323 03:04:16< Jetrel> Since I want to do a better job on the shield.
20090323 03:04:33< Jetrel> s/shield/text
20090323 03:04:39< Shadow_Master> Jetrel: you are free now.
20090323 03:04:44< Jetrel> As you just demonstrated, it's not very noticeable, and is thus Not A Big Deal
20090323 03:05:02< Jetrel> Shadow_Master:  thanks for pointing it out, though.  :)  Be seeing you.
20090323 03:05:09< Shadow_Master> go, go little Jetrel! be free to the world!
20090323 03:05:27 * Shadow_Master un-pokes ettin 
20090323 03:05:43 * Jetrel spreads his horrible leathery wings
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20090323 03:12:02< Blueblaze> voris: Did you happy to remove the big list of variables that can be modified through [store_unit]?
20090323 03:14:16< Blueblaze> well, not through [store_unit] but you know what I mean :P
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20090323 03:15:08< voris> Did I happy?
20090323 03:15:28< Shadow_Master> I happied them while badding!
20090323 03:15:42< voris> You mean did it make me happy? Or is that a typo and you're asking if I had to.
20090323 03:15:46< Blueblaze> happen*
20090323 03:15:51< voris> I did.
20090323 03:16:07< Blueblaze> Did you store that list somewhere? :|
20090323 03:16:13< voris> I even wrote so explicitly in the history comments so you can identify the point where it happened.
20090323 03:16:34< Blueblaze> I see, but it wasn't outdated, and it is quite useful
20090323 03:17:00< voris> There were only two items that do not routinely show up in your [unit] tag in a saves file.
20090323 03:17:04< Shadow_Master> Dragonking: have you upadtied the wioko?
20090323 03:17:10< voris> And it was very cluttery.
20090323 03:17:13< Shadow_Master> upadted. wiki.
20090323 03:17:16< Shadow_Master> updated.
20090323 03:18:09< voris> I'd be happy to put back in a link to a separate page with the list if you'd like it easily referencable on the wiki though.
20090323 03:19:04< voris> Just give me a sec for my computer to stop lagging while the latest build compiles.
20090323 03:23:39< Blueblaze> voris: I would as, "code a [store_unit] event, save the game, and examine what keys are in the file (or just examine the [unit] tag(s) in any save file). " takes up way too much time
20090323 03:25:11 * voris notes that no pre-coding is necessary for the "look for a [unit] tag in any given save file" part. But I'm doing it already. :)
20090323 03:25:57< Blueblaze> Right, but it's also the reason why we don't say on the wiki, go examine X scenario and see how to use [side] tags
20090323 03:32:40< voris> done
20090323 03:34:27< Blueblaze> voris: Thanks :)
20090323 03:34:31< voris> np
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20090323 03:49:01< Blueblaze> Sapient: Is there a way to select all villages using [filter_location] terrain= without having to type up every single village?
20090323 03:49:42-!- fabi [n=fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090323 03:49:59< Sapient> Blueblaze: yes
20090323 03:50:09< Sapient> in fact, it's very easy
20090323 03:50:25< Blueblaze> How to?
20090323 03:50:37< Sapient> isn't there a store_villages tag?
20090323 03:50:56< Sapient> or you can use terrain wildcards
20090323 03:51:23< Sapient> terrain=*^V*
20090323 03:51:28< Blueblaze> oh right, forgot they can go in front
20090323 03:51:28< Sapient> if I remember correctly
20090323 03:52:01< Blueblaze> and, yay for store_villages :)
20090323 03:52:41< Blueblaze> I actually need to use both methods, so glad you brought up the wildcard thing too
20090323 03:53:37< Sapient> owner_side= may also prove useful
20090323 03:56:08< Blueblaze> Yeah, already using it :P
20090323 03:59:38< Blueblaze> voris: As you've been doing a lot of work in the wiki, if you're looking to do some more work on it, you might invest in making the WML tags not only go to the corresponding page but also actual section they're at on the page
20090323 04:00:18< Blueblaze> Something that's on my list todo if not done before I get around to it though
20090323 04:01:00< voris> Well the ones I've been doing I've been updating them to do that a bit.
20090323 04:01:11< voris> Though I did notice that breaks what may be considered a feature.
20090323 04:01:28< Blueblaze> Hmm?
20090323 04:01:32< voris> Unless the link is linking to the main page, it won't "gold out".
20090323 04:01:43< voris> If you are on the page that the link links to.
20090323 04:03:38< voris> So, for instance, on the InternalActionsWML page where I haven't updated most of those links that now have direct target anchors... you can see all the "store" stuff is not links which clues you in that they are to be found on the page you're on.
20090323 04:03:41< Blueblaze> Ah, well the gold_out links instead take you to the direct place the wml tag is located then I think it's an upgrade to that feature
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20090323 04:03:55< Blueblaze> if it does^
20090323 04:04:04< voris> Me too. Just thought I'd mention it in case my view wasn't shared. :)
20090323 04:04:20< voris> Ok, I'm off to eat dinner.
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20090323 04:24:47< Sapient> dang... who added code to test scenario that pops a message for every moveto?
20090323 04:24:58< Sapient> that's a bit excessive
20090323 04:25:46< cjhopman> lol
20090323 04:26:37< CIA-70> sapient * r34061 /trunk/ (SConstruct src/scripting/lua.cpp): add a DISABLE_LUA compile option
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20090323 04:28:05< cjhopman> so i get to play with profiling tools now... http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Cjhopman_profiling
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20090323 04:28:28< [Relic]> Hello :)
20090323 04:28:31< Sapient> thank goodness, I really wish someone would speed Wesnoth up a bit
20090323 04:28:55< Sapient> maxy did help us a lot with that previously
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20090323 04:30:30< Sapient> looks like you "located" a nice improvement
20090323 04:31:12< Sapient> good catch on that
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20090323 04:32:32< Sirp> cjhopman: cool...did you check in or submit a patch for your change to image::locator to use a hash?
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20090323 04:33:04< CIA-70> sapient * r34062 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: removed an annoying event
20090323 04:35:17< cjhopman> Sirp: right now its just thrown together. All the fields for the struct were public, I will have to change that so that they can't be changed without updating the hash value.
20090323 04:35:48< AI0867> scons just cached the lua5.1 not found thing, dispite me passing --config=force
20090323 04:37:18< sylecn> I'm trying to fix the Chinese line break problem, now it is almost done, but still two questions: 1.how to get the first CJK character in a std::string type? 2.I can't call a function in marked-up_text.cpp.  Code pasted at http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m5c51d4fa
20090323 04:40:32< sylecn> for q1, I have tested str.at(0), str[0] which doesn't work when the string contains CJK character. I can use substr(0, 3) get the first char on my laptop, but that's certainly not portable.
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20090323 04:42:53< Sapient> isn't there like a w_string class for that?
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20090323 04:44:09< sylecn> you mean first convert string to w_string?
20090323 04:44:57< Sapient> there is a string_to_wstring method in string_utils.hpp
20090323 04:45:25< Sapient> I'm not sure if that would help or not
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20090323 04:50:52< Sapient> cya later, have fun.
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20090323 05:06:15< Sirp> wesnoth.org has broken new ground with over 10,000 visits today -- and there are still three hours left to go
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20090323 05:27:16< chains> Pretty impressive Sirp ;) 
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20090323 06:08:54< esr> Yeah, I installed lua5.1  but scons doesn't see it.
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20090323 06:18:05< dfranke> ooh yeah, I need to check out lua.
20090323 06:18:07< AI0867> it needs liblua5.1-0-dev
20090323 06:18:09< ryochan7> @esr: do you have liblua5.1-dev installed? i used both apt-get lines to grab the build dependencies for wesnoth but liblua5.1-dev did not get installed. After installing it, wesnoth was able to compile.
20090323 06:18:38< dfranke> heh, three of us respond to esr within a few seconds of each other, 10 minutes after his statement.
20090323 06:18:54< ryochan7> lol
20090323 06:19:22< AI0867> maybe the scons output should be rephrased...
20090323 06:19:22< esr> Trying that.
20090323 06:21:17< esr> Looks like that;ll work.
20090323 06:28:35< dfranke> esr: I have a feature idea that I want to run by a linguistics geek.  That means you.
20090323 06:29:10< dfranke> It happens all the time that I'm playing MP, and nobody else speaks any language that I speak...
20090323 06:29:40< dfranke> I've been thinking about putting together a menu system for constructing simple game-related sentences, that automatically get translated into other players' native language.
20090323 06:30:10< dfranke> among other advantages, it's an excuse to learn Lojban and use it as an intermediate language :-)
20090323 06:30:48< esr> dfranke: Ambitious...you'sd in effect hacve to definse a translator for a constrained Wesnothspweak sublanguage.
20090323 06:31:25< dfranke> esr: yes, but MP players have already effectively evolved a fairly constrained language.
20090323 06:32:00< esr> Interesting...
20090323 06:32:45< esr> But I just got back from a weekend trip to an SF con and must sleep.
20090323 06:32:56< dfranke> gah, you should have told me you were in town.
20090323 06:33:10< dfranke> oh, SF = science fiction
20090323 06:33:15< dfranke> was thinking San Francisco.
20090323 06:33:22< esr> I was in Rye New York.
20090323 06:35:56< cjhopman> dfranke: that's an interesting idea... a lot of multiplayer games have like a quick chat feature with like 10-20+ or so strings
20090323 06:38:33< ryochan7> i haven't seen that type of feature used since back in my PSO playing days. it is an interesting idea.
20090323 06:38:45< dfranke> what is PSO?
20090323 06:39:07< ryochan7> Phantasy Star Online
20090323 06:39:27< dfranke> never heard of it
20090323 06:40:38< ryochan7> It was big on the Dreamcast. There are a couple of PC versions with Blue Burst being the most current.
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20090323 08:11:47< zookeeper> esr, [show_objectives] is a devfeature
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20090323 09:55:20< loonycyborg> http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/23/042215 <- I wonder whether one of devs submitted that :P
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20090323 10:18:52< corn> hi gents, I am interested in working on wesnoth for GSOC and I am going to be a part of this channel now :)
20090323 10:19:08< dfranke> hi corn
20090323 10:19:38< corn> can an admin put me in the GSoC student group on the forums when they get the chance?
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20090323 10:20:02< corn> I'll do a svn checkout at a more sane hour and try to tackle one of the easycoding tasks
20090323 10:20:20< dfranke> gah, wesnoth.org is slashdotted.
20090323 10:20:24< corn> yeah
20090323 10:20:29< corn> that's actually where I came from :)
20090323 10:20:41< corn> I played an earlier version of wesnoth last year but I forgot about it until now
20090323 10:21:03< corn> forgot to mention, my gna.org and forum account name is cornmander
20090323 10:22:31< dfranke> corn: when the server is usable again you should start by creating a proposal page on the wiki.
20090323 10:22:42< corn> right
20090323 10:23:01< corn> thanks
20090323 10:24:11< dfranke> corn: for the meantime, what's your background and what project(s) are you interested in working on?
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20090323 10:25:44< corn> I am a HS senior who will (hopefully) meet gsoc's eligibility requirements. I want to work on creating a campaign stats page but optimizing WML for memory usage sounds interesting
20090323 10:26:08< corn> I think I am more qualified than the average HS student, I had an internship at morgan stanley last year where I made a web interface for monitoring their load balancers
20090323 10:26:23< dfranke> what languages/tools do you like to use?
20090323 10:26:38< corn> python, C, php
20090323 10:26:48< corn> java
20090323 10:27:18< dfranke> have you done any C++?
20090323 10:27:36< corn> no, but I don't think it would be a problem for me to learn
20090323 10:27:55< dfranke> if you know C and know Java, then it should be no problem
20090323 10:28:59< loonycyborg> C and C++ are two totally different things :P
20090323 10:29:07< dfranke> nonetheless, we'll want to shoo you in the direction of the campaign stats page rather than the memory usage.
20090323 10:29:19< corn> alright
20090323 10:29:23< dfranke> and you can use pretty much whatever language you want for that.
20090323 10:29:51< corn> I have a lot of experience with stats gathering and making pages for it from my internship, so it's pretty natural for me
20090323 10:31:34< corn> what do you work on for the project?
20090323 10:33:14< dfranke> Until yesterday (I think) I was the newest committer so nothing much yet, but mostly security auditing and some random bug fixes.
20090323 10:33:49< noy> corn: I might be wrong but I think the students group for the forum will only be applied when we are sure of your addition. 
20090323 10:33:50< dfranke> you can blame me for not having Python AI any more :-)
20090323 10:34:04< noy> ie acceptance into the program
20090323 10:34:08< dfranke> noy: We have an applicants group I think.
20090323 10:34:11< corn> noy: ok, wiki page wasn't so clear
20090323 10:34:43< noy> dfranke: I'm not sure if that is the case, but Ivanovic will be up in a little bit to clarify
20090323 10:35:05< corn> I have school from 8 to around 5, but I'll be around somewhere between when I can get access
20090323 10:35:21< corn> I run irc on my serv so I'll be on 24/7
20090323 10:35:45< noy> access to svn?
20090323 10:35:53< corn> do I have?
20090323 10:36:02< noy> is that what you're asking for?
20090323 10:36:19< corn> I can't do a checkout straight away?
20090323 10:36:32< dfranke> corn: yeah, read-only access is public
20090323 10:36:38< corn> that should be fine for now
20090323 10:36:41< dfranke> svn://svn.gna.org/svn/wesnoth/trunk
20090323 10:37:06< dfranke> For commit access, the policy is send us two non-trivial patches that get accepted and you're in.
20090323 10:37:26< corn> ok
20090323 10:37:34< noy> exactly. 
20090323 10:38:49< Rhonda> Ivanovic: You mean 1.6? I don't plan to do so. I plan to add it to lenny-backports though, and that's when it moved over to testing, earliest.
20090323 10:39:31< CIA-70> loonycyborg * r34063 /trunk/SConstruct: Check for lua only if it's enabled.
20090323 10:40:03< Rhonda> Ivanovic: And currently it's having build problems on sparc and alpha so it will take a while until it moves over to testing, I fear.
20090323 10:40:25< corn> is anyone working on this now? https://gna.org/bugs/?7470
20090323 10:40:31< loonycyborg> Rhonda: What kind of build problems?
20090323 10:40:56< Rhonda> loonycyborg: libboost isn't built for some libicu transition yet and thus uninstallable.
20090323 10:41:08< dfranke> corn: I doubt it
20090323 10:41:12< Rhonda> Sorry to have worded it like the problems might be wesnoth related - they aren't. :)
20090323 10:41:29< corn> dfranke: is an acceptable change to add a dropdown to select between fonts in an option menu, and change the default font?
20090323 10:42:13< dfranke> corn: we have a general philosophy of "options are bad", but that seems like a sane one.
20090323 10:42:32< noy> dfranke: I'd disagree
20090323 10:42:40< dfranke> corn: in any case, if you can do that it'll be a good demonstration of your ability even if we decide not to use it.
20090323 10:42:59< noy> corn: maybe try something else, this is a gui feature which runs into alot of complicated areas 
20090323 10:43:25< corn> noy: not such an EasyCoding task eh
20090323 10:44:05< dfranke> noy: I don't think any sillier an option than colored cursors or reversed time graphics.
20090323 10:44:13< corn> are there any that either of you would recommend, for someone without knowledge of the codebase?
20090323 10:44:35< corn> something that would more or less be a patch to a single file
20090323 10:44:39< noy> I mean I don't want to discourage you, but its less a coding task than an art task, which means its not as clear cut if something is better, as the discussion in that FR makes clear. 
20090323 10:44:40< dfranke> we're probably the wrong ones to advise you on that
20090323 10:45:11< dfranke> I only know small pieces of the codebase and Noy works on game balancing.
20090323 10:45:21< corn> ok
20090323 10:45:38< noy> with a few recent discussions on MP gui, so thats why I'm a bit concerned about this FR
20090323 10:46:51< noy> Here, if you want you may create a fix, and it probably will count for your two patches, but it might not be implemented. 
20090323 10:47:11< noy> ugh, I'm tired and my communication skills are flagging.
20090323 10:47:49< corn> noy: that sounds fine. it _seems_ like a simple thing to chane so it won't be a big deal if the patch gets rejected
20090323 10:50:34< dfranke> corn: ooh.  Actually, I have a good task for you.
20090323 10:50:45< corn> dfranke: shoot
20090323 10:51:00< dfranke> corn: https://gna.org/bugs/?13094
20090323 10:51:39< corn> ok
20090323 10:51:46< corn> Assigned to: Daniel Franke <dfranke> :p
20090323 10:52:00< dfranke> what did you say your gna id was?
20090323 10:52:04< corn> cornmander
20090323 10:53:00< dfranke> hmm, looks like I can't change it to you until you're a committer.  I just marked it unassigned.
20090323 10:54:08< corn> this is client side, where should I be looking in the repo?
20090323 10:54:38< corn> I would grep for connect but it's still checking out the code
20090323 10:55:04< dfranke> upload code is in src/upload_log.cpp
20090323 10:56:13< corn> ah
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20090323 10:57:12< corn> would an acceptable solution be to fork and exec?
20090323 10:57:48< dfranke> On UNIX yes.  Not sure how that stuff works on Windows.
20090323 10:58:01< corn> me neither
20090323 10:58:16< corn> what tools do you need to compile on windows
20090323 10:58:27< corn> msvc??
20090323 10:58:50< dfranke> garlic and a crucifix.
20090323 10:58:55< corn> haha
20090323 10:59:02< corn> I am a pretty backwards/hardcore dev
20090323 10:59:07< corn> vi + terminal window
20090323 10:59:15< corn> and maybe gdb if things get hairy
20090323 10:59:16< loonycyborg> This is one of supported tools. scons also works.
20090323 10:59:58< loonycyborg> msvc that is.
20090323 11:00:00< corn> is msvc the compiler of choice though, or is mingw supported
20090323 11:00:30< loonycyborg> mingw is compiler of choice since windows releases are made with it :P
20090323 11:00:44< corn> ok
20090323 11:01:07< corn> not sure what the equivalent of fork+exec is on windows, I guess I'll have to research on the internet
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20090323 11:03:02< voris> CreateProcess
20090323 11:03:32< corn> voris: thanks - reading the page on it now
20090323 11:03:41< voris> cool
20090323 11:03:49< corn> is this place usually this alive at 6 am or is it just because you got a new release out? :p
20090323 11:04:06< dfranke> a lot of devs are in Europe.
20090323 11:04:13< voris> I have insomnia and we have Europeans.
20090323 11:04:17< dfranke> I'm on PST.
20090323 11:04:27< voris> Me too.
20090323 11:04:43< corn> I am on EST. I screwed up my sleep schedule by going to sleep incrementally later by an hour for the past week
20090323 11:04:54< corn> I went to bed at 4 am yesterday and woke up at 4pm today
20090323 11:05:10< voris> The best plan is to keep doing that until you push it forward to a "normal" schedule.
20090323 11:05:22< voris> Doesn't work so well if you have to keep getting up for school though. :)
20090323 11:05:27< corn> true :)
20090323 11:05:29< dfranke> http://xkcd.com/320/
20090323 11:05:49< voris> heh
20090323 11:05:59< voris> You found that quicker than I could.
20090323 11:07:19< dfranke> alright, I'm off to bed.
20090323 11:07:22< corn> cya
20090323 11:07:30< corn> I'll be going as well, gotta get ready for school
20090323 11:07:44< voris> Later.
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20090323 11:09:35< corn> voris: people arne't kidding when they say winapi is a piece of crap
20090323 11:10:02< Tigge> http://xkcd.com/320/
20090323 11:10:05< Tigge> doh
20090323 11:10:07< corn> this function takes in 10 params, compare with fork() or vfork() on posix that takes in 0
20090323 11:11:24< voris> No, they really aren't.
20090323 11:11:32< voris> I'm so glad to not be working with it anymore.
20090323 11:11:41< corn> lol
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20090323 13:18:44< Shadow_Master> hi
20090323 13:22:17< Shadow_Master> esr: there at last?
20090323 13:23:16< esr> Yup, back from my road trip.  What's up?
20090323 13:23:31< Shadow_Master> esr: have you bothered to read my ML thread about renaming the add-ons dir?
20090323 13:24:05< esr> Yes, it's not an issue either way for me.
20090323 13:24:14< Shadow_Master> esr: you haven't read the IRC logs then?
20090323 13:24:22< Shadow_Master> I need your help with the Python WML tools.
20090323 13:24:44< Shadow_Master> they make references to a "data/campaigns" dir that aren't explicitly stated to be mainline or pref. directory AFAICT
20090323 13:24:45< esr> I came home late last night and crashed.  What should I be looking for?
20090323 13:24:58< Shadow_Master> the generic protocol here is grepping for one's username btw.
20090323 13:25:52< esr> data/campaigns uis where the mainline campaigns live.  Are you proposing to change that?
20090323 13:26:07< Shadow_Master> no...
20090323 13:26:49< Shadow_Master> the references in the python code sound like they expect the mainline and UMC conterparts to be named the same
20090323 13:27:53< Shadow_Master> I need to know if that's true, and what I need to change (assume that I know nothing of coding in Python) before doing the C++ commit
20090323 13:30:13< esr> It varies by tool.  Remind me of what change you're planning?
20090323 13:30:37< Shadow_Master> ehm... the same in the ML
20090323 13:30:40-!- glvgfz [n=dimitri@ppp121-44-164-197.lns10.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 13:30:46< Shadow_Master> UMC dir: data/campaigns -> data/add-ons
20090323 13:30:57< Shadow_Master> mianline dir: data/campaigns -> <intact>
20090323 13:31:11-!- white_eagle [n=miladino@unaffiliated/whiteeagle/x-172864] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 13:31:18< white_eagle> congrats on 1.6 everyone! :)
20090323 13:31:50-!- West_ [n=West@hd5e2754c.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 13:33:43< esr> Shadow_Master: Let me think.
20090323 13:34:44 * Shadow_Master says "nay" and turns on his brainwave interference inductor
20090323 13:35:41 * esr cackles madly and boosts the gain on his cerebral enhancer
20090323 13:36:22< esr> wmlscope won't care; it expects a list of campain root directories and doesn't care how they're named.
20090323 13:36:33< esr> Looking at wmllint...
20090323 13:37:13< esr> wmllint, same.
20090323 13:37:21-!- white_eagle [n=miladino@unaffiliated/whiteeagle/x-172864] has quit []
20090323 13:37:49< esr> wmlmove might care, but we're not going to be moving stuff between addons and mainline anyway.
20090323 13:38:19< Shadow_Master> esr: what about wesnoth/wmltools.py?
20090323 13:38:29< esr> I'm looking at that now.
20090323 13:38:45< Shadow_Master> elias: do you know anything about addon_manager/html.py?
20090323 13:38:57< Shadow_Master> elias: line 76: src = glob.glob("./data/campaigns/*/images/" + icon)
20090323 13:38:59< elias> it makes addons.wesnoth.org
20090323 13:39:09< Shadow_Master> elias: ^ is that the mainline campaigns dir or not?
20090323 13:39:54< Shadow_Master> it seems to be, but I'd prefer to ask a Python coder in case there's obfuscated code in there
20090323 13:40:36< Shadow_Master> (the try-except syntax used above is ugly, for instance - very easy to miss) ^^
20090323 13:41:12< elias> hm, can the icon for an add-on come from the addon directory?
20090323 13:41:17< esr> Shadow_Master: There are some dependencies on data/campaigns, but onnly wmlmove and wmlflip[ use them.
20090323 13:41:45< esr> Those dependencies can be fixed if this becomes an issue, which I think is unlikely.
20090323 13:42:13< elias> Shadow_Master: i would not care about html.py for now, it prints out an error message to Soliton if it won't find an icon
20090323 13:42:20< Shadow_Master> okay then. C++ commit going after I get to university, connect this thing to a power source, rebase my copy, etc.
20090323 13:42:29< Shadow_Master> ;)
20090323 13:45:19< Shadow_Master> esr: I'll need some wmllint rules for this and an earlier commit of mine though
20090323 13:45:32< esr> Yes>
20090323 13:45:43< esr> ?
20090323 13:46:37< Shadow_Master> r34008: the image functor ~RC() in its special version  ~RC(palette1=palette2)  (with palette1 and palette2 being either a comma separated list of values or simple palette identifiers like 'magenta') is deprecated and replaced with ~PAL(palette1>palette2)  . Notice the change of the = into >
20090323 13:47:25< Shadow_Master> r?????: {~campaigns*} turns into {~add-ons*}, {@campaigns*} into {@add-ons*}  ; * is the obvious wildcard match
20090323 13:47:29< esr> Not hard to do.  Hold on...
20090323 13:47:50< Shadow_Master> also wmllint should warn about the campaigns->add-ons renaming on [textdomain] and [binary_path] declarations
20090323 13:47:54< Shadow_Master> warn, not fail, since those are also used in mainline
20090323 13:49:03< esr> Hm.  File an FR with full details and assign it to me.  First item I can do very quickly; second might be a little trickier.
20090323 13:49:25< Shadow_Master> okay
20090323 13:51:21< Ivanovic> moin
20090323 13:52:31< grzybacz> hi Ivanovic 
20090323 13:52:50< Shadow_Master> hail Ivanovic 
20090323 13:53:17< West_> still hacking away at ideas for a ui facelift; all feedback is welcome -- http://www.scriptorium.se/west/i/ui-mockup2.png
20090323 13:54:10< Smar> taht button somehow feels too large
20090323 13:54:29< Smar> that*
20090323 13:54:36 * Shadow_Master fights scons' stupid caching ideas
20090323 13:54:59< Shadow_Master> aaaaaargh.
20090323 13:55:07< Shadow_Master> it's lua what doesn't let me rebuild wesnoth?!
20090323 13:55:09< Smar> I like cmake.
20090323 13:55:19< grzybacz> Yeah, the button is large, but its texture looks better.
20090323 13:55:37< West_> everyone comments on the button :)
20090323 13:55:49< Smar> it’š most visible thing on that
20090323 13:55:55< Smar> too different color :P
20090323 13:55:55< grzybacz> Wood though... doesn't look good. It has a plastic feel to it and is, of course, stretched...
20090323 13:56:17< Smar> yah, that feels like smudged, that UI
20090323 13:56:29< Shadow_Master> installing liblua5.1-0-dev, hopefully this is it.
20090323 13:56:31< West_> you're right, the wood isn't good
20090323 13:56:39< Shadow_Master> I had liblua50-dev installed already
20090323 13:56:53< West_> I'm just trying to come up with a different material in addition to the dark bg
20090323 13:56:53< Shadow_Master> see you
20090323 13:57:12-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit ["."]
20090323 14:01:48< voris> I had only liblua5.1-0, liblua50, and liblualib50 (none of the -dev ones) installed and scons compiled just fine for me.
20090323 14:02:19-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit ["Power failu"]
20090323 14:05:35< loonycyborg> Smar: I do not like cmake since it just is autotools remake. Besides I prefer to script my buildsystems in a real scripting language :)
20090323 14:06:49< Smar> it’š enough simple for me :)
20090323 14:06:54< Smar> atleast on basic level
20090323 14:07:28< loonycyborg> Yes. It's so simple that it makes simple tasks easy and complex tasks impossible.
20090323 14:07:37< Smar> ya.
20090323 14:08:11< voris> I wonder if the reason I never have a caching issue with scons recompiles is because I am paranoid and always run scons -c all first.
20090323 14:08:40< Smar> I don’t really think the building script should anyway do half of a program itself
20090323 14:08:54< isaac> zocky: wel
20090323 14:09:08< Smar> what I want is ”make” command to work
20090323 14:09:13< Smar> or something.
20090323 14:09:20 * loonycyborg would like to eventually have a scons-based framework that satisies 'make simple task easy, make complex tasks possible'
20090323 14:09:20< Smar> just want...it..work.
20090323 14:09:41< Smar> well, waiting that day.
20090323 14:09:55< loonycyborg> Smar: Well.. scons already works for me :)
20090323 14:10:03< Smar> and cmake for me :P
20090323 14:10:10-!- Andrai [n=Andrai@150.165.63.86] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 14:10:32< loonycyborg> Smar: Only until it reaches critical mass :P
20090323 14:10:42< Smar> not really
20090323 14:10:54< Smar> as far as you don’t make it overly complex
20090323 14:11:38< loonycyborg> It already is overly complex because it generates makefiles.
20090323 14:12:10< Smar> well.
20090323 14:12:38< loonycyborg> Besides, maintaining your own language isn't a piece of cake either.
20090323 14:13:17< grzybacz> Smar: alias make=scons
20090323 14:13:18< grzybacz> :P
20090323 14:13:35< Smar> mee.
20090323 14:14:36< voris> Mmm... passing autotools options to scons...
20090323 14:15:52-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 14:16:24< voris> Shadow_Master: what caching issues were you getting?
20090323 14:16:43< Shadow_Master> Checking for lua >= 5.1... (cached) no
20090323 14:16:48< Shadow_Master> Checking for lua5.1 >= 5.1... (cached) yes
20090323 14:16:51< Shadow_Master> voris: none.
20090323 14:17:01< Shadow_Master> voris: I didn't notice I didn't have lua5.1 installed, so scons was refusing to rebuild wesnoth
20090323 14:17:09< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: tell me what the hell the above tests mean?
20090323 14:17:12< voris> ah
20090323 14:18:20< loonycyborg> Shadow_Master: They mean that lua must be referred to as  lua or lua5.1 depending on the distro when calling pkg-config.
20090323 14:19:15< loonycyborg> Gentoo has lua.pc while debian derivatives have lua5.1.pc
20090323 14:20:34< Smar> I have... no lua at all.
20090323 14:23:01< voris> So lua is a scons need, not a wesnoth one?
20090323 14:23:17< loonycyborg> No.
20090323 14:23:28< loonycyborg> I was getting linker errors without lua.
20090323 14:23:44< voris> So how's Smar compiling? :)
20090323 14:23:57< loonycyborg> Perhaps he compiles 1.6?
20090323 14:24:00< Smar> I have no Wesnoth here :P
20090323 14:24:07< voris> ahh
20090323 14:24:18< voris> Oh and this is only trunk?
20090323 14:24:34< loonycyborg> Lua is trunk-only dependency.
20090323 14:24:37< Smar> well, I’m not really going to do anything with trunk for a year,  I suppose
20090323 14:24:58< loonycyborg> There's no plans of backporting it AFAIK.
20090323 14:25:21< voris> I did compile trunk a few days ago.
20090323 14:25:54< voris> It did not require the -dev versions of lua.
20090323 14:26:35< loonycyborg> It was added yesterday.
20090323 14:26:40< voris> aha!
20090323 14:26:41< Shadow_Master> bye, campaigns.
20090323 14:26:45< voris> Well that clears that up.
20090323 14:27:37< CIA-70> shadowmaster * r34064 /trunk/ (RELEASE_NOTES changelog players_changelog src/filesystem.cpp): 
20090323 14:27:37< CIA-70> The add-ons directory, <preferences>/data/campaigns, has been renamed
20090323 14:27:37< CIA-70> to <preferences>/data/add-ons in order to better reflect its current
20090323 14:27:37< CIA-70> purpose: holding not only singleplayer campaigns, but also any other
20090323 14:27:37< CIA-70> kinds of single or multiplayer add-ons.
20090323 14:27:41< CIA-70> (Per mailing list thread,
20090323 14:27:43< CIA-70> https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-dev/2009-03/msg00068.html).
20090323 14:29:30-!- Crab_ [n=crab_@c.218.175.a530.sta.adsl.cyfra.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 14:29:47< Crab_> hi
20090323 14:29:48< voris> I always found it more confusing that it was not the multiplayer directory I was adding stuff to when I first started out.
20090323 14:30:14< voris> But this will certainly be more intuitive than even that.
20090323 14:30:53< iyonius> who will be mentor(s) of addon server on Google Summer of Code?
20090323 14:30:57< zookeeper> Shadow_Master, don't forget the WML changes...
20090323 14:31:32< zookeeper> hmh
20090323 14:31:43< Shadow_Master> zookeeper: ¡
20090323 14:31:49< Shadow_Master> s/¡/?/
20090323 14:31:59-!- AndreLuiz [n=AndreLui@unaffiliated/andreluiz] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090323 14:32:15< zookeeper> i was pretty sure there used to be an explicit {~campaigns/} include there, but i guess not.
20090323 14:32:42< Shadow_Master> zookeeper: but there are a lot of {@campaigns} includes used instead of {campaigns} in mainline campaigns
20090323 14:32:47< Shadow_Master> take SoF as example.
20090323 14:32:55< Shadow_Master> that doesn't make sense to me.
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20090323 14:33:06< zookeeper> yeah, they should all be converted
20090323 14:33:17< Shadow_Master> can you do that?
20090323 14:33:20< zookeeper> btw i don't think i've yet seen any useful uses of @
20090323 14:33:35< zookeeper> i guess
20090323 14:34:04< Shadow_Master> well, when I replaced {@campaigns} with {~campaigns} in IftU, I started receiving lots of bug reports from people who had the habit of installing it into the mainline campaigns dir
20090323 14:34:10< zookeeper> i'll put that on my list of things to do today..
20090323 14:34:10< Shadow_Master> go figure.
20090323 14:34:44< voris> They were installing manually?
20090323 14:35:16< voris> And into a root level access directory?
20090323 14:36:27< Shadow_Master> windows users I guess
20090323 14:38:17< voris> Oh that would make sene.
20090323 14:38:24< voris> I mean except for the manual install part.
20090323 14:38:24< voris> :)
20090323 14:39:27-!- alink [n=alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 14:40:16< Shadow_Master> does it make sense to use Windows to play Wesnoth in the first place? ;)
20090323 14:41:15< voris> heh
20090323 14:41:28< Shadow_Master> esr: you've got a filthy priority:7 FR in your box
20090323 14:41:45< Shadow_Master> zookeeper: I'm thinking that perhaps we should drop support for @ too..
20090323 14:42:53< Shadow_Master> apparently I'll have to change its current fallback schema ( <prefdir>/data/add-ons ? <prefdir>/data/add-ons : <coredir>/data/add-ons ) to a less symmetric one ( ... : <coredir>/data/campaigns )
20090323 14:43:22< Shadow_Master> and @ is currently  making a loooot of sense with the many MP add-ons that use it...
20090323 14:43:32< zookeeper> it is?
20090323 14:43:58< voris> That sounds like sarcasm to me.
20090323 14:44:03 * voris checks the sarcasm detector
20090323 14:44:14-!- Shadow_Master is now known as Sarcasm_Master
20090323 14:44:24< Sarcasm_Master> cookie for voris 
20090323 14:44:46-!- Sarcasm_Master is now known as Shadow_Master
20090323 14:44:58< zookeeper> you don't really have to worry about compatibility in trunk, though
20090323 14:45:32< voris> You could just alias @ to ~
20090323 14:45:52< zookeeper> @ seems pretty useless to me, really
20090323 14:45:54< Shadow_Master> voris: that'd be more evil than just dropping it
20090323 14:46:01< voris> heh
20090323 14:50:48< zookeeper> the wesnoth news disappeared from ./?
20090323 14:51:14< Shadow_Master> slashdot? wesnoth news?
20090323 14:52:08< voris> This? http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/23/042215
20090323 14:52:23< zookeeper> yeah, i found the link again with google but not otherwise
20090323 14:53:05< loonycyborg> zookeeper: I do see it.
20090323 14:53:55< loonycyborg> zookeeper: http://imagebin.org/42456
20090323 14:54:10< Shadow_Master> adding the @ weirdness compatibility will be a bit more tricky than I initially thought
20090323 14:54:12< Shadow_Master> cya later.
20090323 14:54:16-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit []
20090323 14:56:21< zookeeper> nope, it's not there for me..
20090323 14:59:37-!- happygrue [n=George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 14:59:49< voris> Weird. I see the two articles he sees that between and it's not there for me either.
20090323 15:00:16< loonycyborg> voris: Are you logged in?
20090323 15:00:22< voris> Nope.
20090323 15:02:23< loonycyborg> I don't see it either if I open slashdot in konqueror where I'm not logged in.
20090323 15:04:21< voris> huh
20090323 15:04:27< voris> Logging in, it's visible.
20090323 15:04:32< voris> Must be a threshold thing.
20090323 15:06:31-!- res|laptop [n=res@pdpc/supporter/student/res2k] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 15:08:38< happygrue> since it is a 'games' entry it probably only shows up if you have configured your account to show such entries
20090323 15:09:06< happygrue> zookeeper: if you click on the games tab, you should be able to see it there?
20090323 15:11:09< voris> No.
20090323 15:11:14< voris> Not if not logged in.
20090323 15:13:34< voris> What about when you're using the mainline elves race plus some of your own to make an expanded race? 
20090323 15:13:44 * voris thinks of possibly a good reason for @
20090323 15:14:06< voris> Not that you can't just use the long form though. :)
20090323 15:14:29< happygrue> huh, you are right
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20090323 15:19:13< Ivanovic> dfranke: uhm, wesnoth was most likely not /.'ed
20090323 15:19:21< Ivanovic> that is: i at least don't see an article there...
20090323 15:19:37< voris> It was visible without logging in for awhile.
20090323 15:20:40< Ivanovic> raelly?
20090323 15:20:44< Ivanovic> nice...
20090323 15:20:59< Ivanovic> lets see in one week where most visitors came from...
20090323 15:22:00-!- ryochan7 [n=ryochan7@173.9.238.161] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20090323 15:33:50< happygrue> for people who's IP is blacklisted on GNA is there a way for them to get an account?
20090323 15:34:09< Crab_> happygrue: use a cgiproxy ?
20090323 15:34:56< Crab_> or any other kind of free anonymous proxy
20090323 15:35:59< happygrue> Crab_: thanks
20090323 15:44:09< Eternal> how does one get his IP blacklisted on GNA?
20090323 15:45:49< happygrue> "happygrue, while registering or submitting a bug anonimously i get an error because my ip is blacklisted (probably because my ISP uses a NAT)"
20090323 15:47:12< grzybacz> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24600
20090323 15:47:12< grzybacz> lol
20090323 15:47:15< voris> GNA will likely block a range when they block.
20090323 15:47:41< voris> So probably just unlucky enough to share a range with a spammer or something.
20090323 15:47:56< voris> For instance, having an AOL account. ;)
20090323 15:49:28-!- elias__ [n=elias@62-47-186-48.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20090323 15:50:46< voris> Clearly they did not see the form letter (that disgruntled user).
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20090323 15:53:52< CIA-70> wintermute * r34065 /trunk/data/multiplayer/ (4 files in 2 dirs): bug #13247: fixed typo where MP map "Wilderlands" was listed as 4 player rather than 5.
20090323 15:57:01< happygrue> Ivanovic: is it best to close simple bugs like that when fixed, or to let you or esr or someone do that?
20090323 16:00:11-!- ilor [n=user@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 16:02:06< Ivanovic> closing *after* a release only
20090323 16:02:25< happygrue> so short answer is that I should not close things
20090323 16:02:30< Ivanovic> unless the bug is svn only
20090323 16:02:35< Ivanovic> correct
20090323 16:02:36< happygrue> I see
20090323 16:02:46 * happygrue notes the protocol
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20090323 16:12:14< Always-Godlike> hi
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20090323 16:48:40< chains> is 1.6 going to be announced in the server motd? 
20090323 16:48:47< chains> everyone is still playing 1.4 ;) 
20090323 16:49:56< Always-Godlike> because there are still no packages for the popular distributions ;) after compiling 1.4 i dont want to compile 1.6 again for my pc :D
20090323 16:53:34< Blueblaze> chains: Yeah we can do that
20090323 16:54:18< Rhonda> Always-Godlike: Who says that there are no packages for the popular distributions?
20090323 16:54:50< Rhonda> Alright, I have to admit ... yes, there aren't. Well, not really.
20090323 16:54:52< Always-Godlike> i searched for opensuse, i couldn't find one (and ubuntu too)
20090323 16:55:06< elias> is there one for slackware?
20090323 16:55:10< Rhonda> opensuse isn't a popular distribution</blindfold-nitpick>
20090323 16:55:15< Always-Godlike> :P
20090323 16:55:33< Rhonda> elias: sheesh, slackware still is alive?!
20090323 16:55:49< Rhonda> That's so last millenium. :)
20090323 16:56:26< Rhonda> Always-Godlike: About ubuntu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/346990
20090323 16:57:11< Always-Godlike> :)
20090323 16:57:24< Rhonda> Given their current jaunty freeze state it might take a few days until the sync gets through though.
20090323 16:57:31< Always-Godlike> But i do not have Ubuntu, a friend does ;) (really!)
20090323 16:57:39-!- alink [n=alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20090323 17:22:10< Velory> hi
20090323 17:22:16< Crab_> hi, Velory
20090323 17:26:03-!- leprasmurf1 [n=forbtim@adsl-243-4-211.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 17:27:34< Blueblaze> chains: There you go
20090323 17:27:49< chains> sweet!
20090323 17:28:51< Blueblaze> It can be cleaned up a bit, but I don't know how to move to a new line, so that'll hold for now
20090323 17:30:44-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20090323 17:42:36< chains> error filesystem: Trying to open file with empty name.
20090323 17:42:46< chains> I assume this is a known bug?
20090323 17:43:31-!- lizard_r [n=MirandaM@W9c8d.w.pppool.de] has quit ["I'm gone, but the Saurians will last."]
20090323 17:43:49-!- carlestyle [n=carlesty@62.Red-80-39-76.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 17:47:23< carlestyle> hi everyone and good afternoon ^^
20090323 17:47:32< grzybacz> hi
20090323 17:48:09< Velory> hi
20090323 17:48:16< cjhopman> hi
20090323 17:48:28< carlestyle> my name is Carles and I would like to participate with you as a gsoc student
20090323 17:48:57-!- turin [n=turin@168.215.249.253] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 17:49:37< ettin> carlestyle: hmm, your name looks suspiciously Catalan?
20090323 17:49:52< carlestyle> yes it is :D
20090323 17:50:00< carlestyle> i'm from barcelona
20090323 17:50:14< ettin> heh
20090323 17:50:15< ettin> carlestyle: benvingut
20090323 17:50:24< Velory> :)
20090323 17:50:31< carlestyle> thanks/gracies
20090323 17:50:34< ettin> carlestyle: what area of wesnoth are you interested in?
20090323 17:51:21< carlestyle> i'd like to contribute with the stats project
20090323 17:51:51-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
20090323 17:53:50< carlestyle> ^^
20090323 17:56:26-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 17:57:02< iyonius> carlestyle: hi :-)
20090323 17:57:10< Shadow_Master> hi
20090323 17:57:30< carlestyle> hi hi :D
20090323 17:57:50< chains> Speaking of the stats project I'd also like to contribute to it. :) 
20090323 17:58:03< Sapient> whew, I was worried ou wanted to contribute to the Valencian translation
20090323 17:58:17 * Sapient winks
20090323 17:58:20< ettin> Sapient: haha
20090323 17:58:22< chains> come now we really need a valencian translation... ? :P 
20090323 17:58:51< carlestyle> xD
20090323 18:02:41< ettin> I have to go now, bye
20090323 18:02:51< carlestyle> bye ettin!
20090323 18:04:20-!- stikonas [n=stikonas@ctv-79-132-187-171.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 18:04:42 * Shadow_Master hails ettin the Lord of Glamdrol
20090323 18:05:27< stikonas> last svn commit has Windows line endings instead of UNIX
20090323 18:05:41< stikonas> can anyone with svn access fix it
20090323 18:05:56< Shadow_Master> checking
20090323 18:06:18< stikonas> data/multiplayer/maps/5p_The_Wilderlands.map
20090323 18:07:50< CIA-70> shadowmaster * r34066 /trunk/data/multiplayer/maps/5p_The_Wilderlands.map: Convert DOS (CRLF) line endings into Unix ones (LF) using wmllint.
20090323 18:07:59< Shadow_Master> stikonas: is it okay now?
20090323 18:08:05< Always-Godlike> Has anyone compiled an rpm for openSuSE 11.0 x86? :)
20090323 18:08:32< Shadow_Master> Always-Godlike: you can always make your own ;)
20090323 18:08:45< stikonas> Shadow_Master: yes, thanks
20090323 18:08:57 * Shadow_Master hits happygrue with Notepad++
20090323 18:09:22< Always-Godlike> Shadow_Master: i know, but it's easier to use an exisiting rpm ;)
20090323 18:09:26< Shadow_Master> happygrue: try to use a real text editor (e.g. Notepad++) if you don't already, and make sure you use the correct line endings until someone fixes the svn properties
20090323 18:09:39 * Shadow_Master looks at AI0867 
20090323 18:10:00< Always-Godlike> as i compiled 1.4 for my eee some graphics got lost, so i can't see the damage when i'm attacking someone
20090323 18:10:30< Shadow_Master> Always-Godlike: damage floating labels? those are adjusted in Preferences
20090323 18:10:57< Always-Godlike> mh... k, i'll compile my own :)
20090323 18:11:05< Shadow_Master> display -> "show floating labels"
20090323 18:11:41< Shadow_Master> you could also check in opensuse.org if there's a repository tracking upstream Wesnoth releases
20090323 18:11:50< Shadow_Master> upstream == we.
20090323 18:13:44< stikonas> Shadow_Master: it still offers 1.4.7: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/games/openSUSE_11.1/
20090323 18:14:13< Always-Godlike> yeah, and i do have 11.0 :(
20090323 18:16:30< Sapient> "correct" line endings depends on your perspective ;)
20090323 18:17:32< Sapient> so it will be wrong for windows users now
20090323 18:17:39< Shadow_Master> Sapient: right, and that's because I encourage AI0867 to go and fix the svn properties
20090323 18:17:42< Shadow_Master> svn:eol-style = native
20090323 18:19:00 * Shadow_Master goes to torture a poor windows xp installation
20090323 18:20:36< Shadow_Master> by the way, someone who can bear reading Mabuse's LudicrousUsageOfACRAndMixedCase may want to check http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24596 to see if it's a bug or not.
20090323 18:22:31-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Client Quit]
20090323 18:22:34< happygrue> Shadow_Master: Ah, of course
20090323 18:22:38< happygrue> I wasn't thinking about it, sorry
20090323 18:24:42-!- Crab_ [n=crab_@c.218.175.a530.sta.adsl.cyfra.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 18:25:28 * happygrue always waits until people leave to apologize
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20090323 19:10:42< iyonius> Ivanovic: are you there? ping :-)
20090323 19:12:28< thespaceinvader> who's maintaining Northern Rebirth at the moment?
20090323 19:13:06-!- sam_sjohns67 [n=sam@c-24-1-113-69.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 19:13:24-!- Rohita [n=Rohita@202.69.192.81] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 19:13:59< iyonius> thespaceinvader: I don`t know, but I find there wrong translated string
20090323 19:14:08-!- boucman [n=rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 19:14:12< iyonius> in slovak language
20090323 19:14:32< boucman> hey all
20090323 19:14:42< iyonius> boucman: hey
20090323 19:14:42< Crab_> hi boucman
20090323 19:14:53< sam_sjohns67> Hi. My name is Sam, and I am applying for Google Summer of Code. I just thought I'd come introduce myself.
20090323 19:15:05< iyonius> sam_sjohns67: hi, which project?
20090323 19:15:09< happygrue> thespaceinvader: zookeeper is atm I think, but he is looking to pawn it off on someone (maybe me)
20090323 19:15:13< boucman> sam_sjohns67: hello 
20090323 19:15:23< thespaceinvader> happygrue: cool
20090323 19:15:23< zookeeper> thespaceinvader, well, mostly no one...esr is the closest thing i guess, i don't think he works on it much
20090323 19:15:24< sam_sjohns67> The AI project
20090323 19:15:27< boucman> please have a look at  http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeIdeas to see how to apply
20090323 19:15:29< zookeeper> and no, definitely not me
20090323 19:15:33< happygrue> hehe
20090323 19:15:39< happygrue> I said it so, it must be true now!
20090323 19:15:45 * happygrue runs away
20090323 19:15:46< boucman> esr: around ?
20090323 19:15:54< thespaceinvader> i was just wondering why Tallin! seems to have acquired an exclamation mark on his name
20090323 19:15:58< zookeeper> i haven't played even halfway across the second scenario and am not planning on either
20090323 19:15:58< thespaceinvader> it looks kind of odd
20090323 19:16:18< zookeeper> say what.. O.o
20090323 19:16:21< happygrue> thespaceinvader: I haven't played more than a few scenarios either, I need to go through it
20090323 19:16:38< thespaceinvader> Tallin is no longer Tallin, but Tallin!
20090323 19:16:51< thespaceinvader> or so it appears in 1.6a as i downloaded, anyway o_O
20090323 19:16:53< sam_sjohns67> thanks, i am looking at the page now. I know i need to tell an admin i'm applying so they can mark my account as a Google SoC
20090323 19:17:11< sam_sjohns67> my wesnoth account is sjohns67
20090323 19:18:09-!- ryochan7 [n=ryochan7@173.9.238.161] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090323 19:18:20< boucman> ok, will do
20090323 19:18:28< zookeeper> thespaceinvader, not for me in my 1.6+svn..
20090323 19:18:44< thespaceinvader> no indeed, i just checked SVN and it seems not to be that way there
20090323 19:18:51< thespaceinvader> how odd
20090323 19:18:52< boucman> sam_sjohns67: done
20090323 19:19:53< iyonius> boucman: can you modify my account too? my account is iyonius
20090323 19:19:58-!- yuri_ [n=yuri@80.74.127.235] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 19:20:05< zookeeper> thespaceinvader, but yeah, it does happen in 1.6 (i don't have 1.6a)
20090323 19:20:20< boucman> iyonius: done
20090323 19:20:23< boucman> anybody else ?
20090323 19:20:29< sam_sjohns67> thanks
20090323 19:20:47< iyonius> boucman: thanks
20090323 19:20:49< sam_sjohns67> i'll be in touch
20090323 19:20:50< thespaceinvader> zookeeper: just as long as i;m not imagining things =)
20090323 19:20:52-!- alink_ [n=alink@78.129.18.215] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 19:21:28-!- yuri_ [n=yuri@80.74.127.235] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090323 19:22:51< zookeeper> wow. it didn't go away even when i retyped that.
20090323 19:25:43< zookeeper> i'm guessing a translation issue of some kind.
20090323 19:26:35< zookeeper> changed to name= _ "Joe", didn't get a ! anymore, changed back to _ "Tallin" and got it again. then i changed the language from system def lang to eng us, and the ! disappeared.
20090323 19:27:10-!- windrunnerYeah [n=toth@105.19-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 19:27:13< zookeeper> and back to system def lang, and the ! appears again.
20090323 19:27:19< thespaceinvader> how bizzarre
20090323 19:27:41< thespaceinvader> anyway, i gotta go make dinner
20090323 19:27:43< thespaceinvader> biab
20090323 19:28:10< windrunnerYeah> hey. How can you put your user-made stuff to the official add-on server ?
20090323 19:28:30< zookeeper> by reading the instructions in the wiki.
20090323 19:28:46< zookeeper> what is your user-made stuff anyway?
20090323 19:29:08-!- alink_ [n=alink@78.129.18.215] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090323 19:29:25< windrunnerYeah> a survival...where is the wiki?
20090323 19:29:30< Velory> boucman: i uploaded my patch yesterday so u can delete other 3 files when u have time
20090323 19:29:55< boucman> i'll leave them, it's no big deal, but ok, I'll review when I have time
20090323 19:30:18-!- alink [n=alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090323 19:31:28< Velory> Crab_: are you going to apply project from GsOc when student apply period opened-tonight-? Or will you wait some time ?
20090323 19:32:47< boucman> esr: ping me when you're around...
20090323 19:32:49< Crab_> Velory, I'm going to see the application form - then I'll know - can it be filled immediately or not.
20090323 19:33:42< Velory> boucman: what do you think about which unit is more need heal than other 51hp-180 max.hp(1th) 20hp-50max hp(2nd)
20090323 19:34:09< boucman> Velory: I'm not a good player, I'd rather not answer
20090323 19:34:23< boucman> you might have better answers on #wesnoth-mp
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20090323 19:34:32< Velory> Hmm ok
20090323 19:34:34< Velory> thanks
20090323 19:35:17< Velory> everyone in wesnoth-mp is also here :)
20090323 19:35:34< Crab_> boucman, I've completed a major overhaul of my SoC proposition (based on the knowledge I've got hacking through the code and some paper\pencil thinking). Please read it when you have time - it's around a page of text and it is important for me to get feedback.
20090323 19:35:36< Velory> anybody have any idea? about which unit is more need heal than other 51hp-180 max.hp(1th) 20hp-50max hp(2nd)
20090323 19:36:08< happygrue> Velory: I don't understand the question
20090323 19:36:18< Velory> which unit is need healing more
20090323 19:36:24< happygrue> which is healing more important for?  units with low hp or high hp?
20090323 19:36:26< boucman> Crab_: will do
20090323 19:36:50< Crab_> boucman, http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeProposal_AI_Improvement_Crab
20090323 19:36:55< happygrue> well, it depends.
20090323 19:36:59< boucman> got it already :)
20090323 19:37:01< Sirp> sam_sjohns67: before going further, I would like to let you know the working on the AI for Wesnoth is by far the most competitive area people are applying for. And we will likely only have (at most) one slot for it.
20090323 19:37:05< Crab_> thanks
20090323 19:37:20< happygrue> healing is also affected by things like resists
20090323 19:37:22< boucman> sam_sjohns67: and it's probably the hardest area too
20090323 19:37:33< Sirp> not that I would want to discourage anyone, but I like to keep people's expectations realistic. :)
20090323 19:38:29< boucman> another note to everybody...
20090323 19:38:32< Crab_> Sirp. I want to ask you, when you have time, to look at what I've written at , http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeProposal_AI_Improvement_Crab too. It is important for me to know what do you think about it.
20090323 19:38:58< Velory> And Dragonking will join GSoC:)
20090323 19:39:05< Velory> too
20090323 19:39:14< boucman> Wesnoth doesn't have a huge capacity mentor-wise, so there will be only a handfull of slots.... I would advise everybody to consider a second project and not bet everything on wesnoth...
20090323 19:40:35< Crab_> boucman: I'll bet everything on Wesnoth :) I knew it since when I've first looked at a list of accepted organizations )
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20090323 19:42:18< boucman> Crab_: apparently you have not understood the philosophy of the "register candidate moves" approch, 
20090323 19:42:38< boucman> (you might still not like it after that, but I think it's worth understanding it anyway)
20090323 19:42:46< Crab_> boucman: 'the move which returns best value is executed' ?
20090323 19:42:51< boucman> yes
20090323 19:43:15< Crab_> boucman: so you know that I've seen it :) and I think there are some problems with that approach.
20090323 19:43:30< boucman> it has a huge benefit compared to other
20090323 19:43:34< boucman> it's incremental
20090323 19:43:52< boucman> at that point having an AI that prioritize non-poisoned unit is better most of the time
20090323 19:44:20-!- Andrai [n=Andrai@150.165.63.86] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090323 19:44:25< boucman> if we have another algorithm that prioritize differently (say, based on chance to kill) it will also evaluate and we compare how "good the resulting move is"
20090323 19:44:32< boucman> and execute the best
20090323 19:44:44< Crab_> boucman: yes, I've seen that logic.
20090323 19:45:10< boucman> so the argument that teaching the ai to attack non-poisoned is bad because there is some case where it's not true is a misunderstanding of the rgm approchh
20090323 19:45:44< boucman> moreover, pushing away all approch by saying that we don't cover every cases has made us not touch the AI for the whole 1.5 period
20090323 19:46:07< Crab_> boucman, my main argument is another: 'if that poisoning move is so good, why hasn't the ai figured it out for itself ?'
20090323 19:46:09< boucman> so we need to have a very progressive approch rather that something that try directly to do a "better AI"
20090323 19:46:31< boucman> Crab_: because RCM is here to make it figure out
20090323 19:46:40< boucman> the whole point of RCM is to help figuring it out
20090323 19:46:46< boucman> RCM is the AI
20090323 19:47:03< boucman> scenario  special casing shouldn't really be done through RCM
20090323 19:47:17< Sirp> Crab_: I'm afraid that I find your proposal far too vague to understand how you're going to do it. I would want to see either a much more detailed design or the start of an actual implementation.
20090323 19:47:18-!- fendrin [n=fabi@f051233037.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 19:47:53< Sirp> everyone who talks about AI's talks in these really high level ways about how the AI should work and what it should 'know' about and behave, etc........but I've never seen someone actually able to implement something like that. :)
20090323 19:47:58 * fendrin celebrates wesnoth being on slashdot.
20090323 19:48:02< Crab_> Sirp: As I've written there, I've already started to make a specialized implementation, because I see that as the best way to convince you.
20090323 19:48:34< Sirp> Crab_: sure, I agree. :) I would love to see the implementation.
20090323 19:49:22< fendrin> Crab_: Most things that should improve the ai ( for example scouting for village clusters ) made things worse. Removing that intelligent features makes the ai behave better.
20090323 19:49:37< fendrin> s/makes/made
20090323 19:49:50< Crab_> Sirp: I'll try to get it in around 10 days. I am thinking and working to create something quite devious and fun  ) but, if I wouldn't be able to complete it in time (10 days), i'll do something simpler.
20090323 19:50:13< Sirp> Crab_: okay, cool.
20090323 19:50:14< Crab_> Sirp: I understand quite well that working prototype is the best expression of the idea ;)
20090323 19:50:15< boucman> Crab_: in other word, RCM is an  AI philosophy, that's where the AI should think (when you take the RCM philosophy, that is) so saying that the thinking should be done somewhere else doesn't make sense when considering an RCM based AI, if you want to implement the AI differently, it's another matter)
20090323 19:50:33< Sirp> Crab_: I really don't mean to sound super cynical or doubtful. I just want you to understand that we need to see something quite solid. :)
20090323 19:51:51< Crab_> Sirp: and I think that you are right. I just wanted to get some feedback in case I've was reimplementing the wheel or missed something important or something like that :)
20090323 19:52:14< zookeeper> surely designing how things should work on a higher level requires the most work and skill (that's why it's called higher level). programmers just mechanically implement stuff, anyone could do that if they wouldn't rather dedicate themselves to the more demanding tasks!
20090323 19:52:34< cjhopman> zookeeper: no kidding!
20090323 19:52:43< Sirp> Crab_: also, I think the hardest part -- by a long way -- is comparing what you 'expect' to see vs what you do see.
20090323 19:53:09< Sirp> I'm not even sure how one would really do that
20090323 19:53:24< Crab_> fendrin: I am thinking about making core ai better, and less reliant on those 'intelligent' features.
20090323 19:53:34< Sirp> Crab_: btw, I noticed that you're in high school, is that right?
20090323 19:53:46< Crab_> Sirp: 6th year student
20090323 19:54:10< Sirp> Crab_: okay....how old are you? (Or, if you don't want to tell an exact age, will you be over 18 on April 14 this year?)
20090323 19:54:24< YogiHH> zookeeper: there is a real good saying why implementing early is so important: It goes "Bubbles don't crash!"
20090323 19:54:25< Crab_> Sirp: I am 23
20090323 19:55:06< zookeeper> i see that i wasn't quite convincing enough since no one choked on their drink
20090323 19:55:07< Crab_> Sirp: I am from an ex-USSR country where designations are different. 
20090323 19:55:20< Sirp> Crab_: ahhhh okay. Okay got it. Just wanted to make sure you are eligible for SoC. :)
20090323 19:55:26< Sirp> but yes, that's no problem then.
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20090323 19:56:16< boucman> Crab_: do you have a test case for patch 1136 (segfault in the parser) so i can test ?
20090323 19:56:47< fendrin> Sirp: Does the current ai implementation have any idea about zoc?
20090323 19:57:15< Crab_> fendrin: in the movement code, yes. it doesn't cheat it )
20090323 19:58:32< fendrin> What I wanted to know is: Does the ai try to position it's units in some kind of a frontline.
20090323 19:59:00< happygrue> Crab_: have you played online much?
20090323 19:59:13< fendrin> I would try to base an ai on a very simple understanding of the zoc.
20090323 19:59:42< boucman> Crab_: so, do you have a test case, or is it preventive ?
20090323 19:59:43< happygrue> fendrin: that sounds mind bendingly hard to me, but it would be great.
20090323 19:59:57< Crab_> boucman: I can make it up. I've run into it when I was creating run_file. You see, to parse a function definition without defines (def ), no function table is required. so that function can be called ok with that symbol table parameter set to null. But, as soon as there any def's, you'll need a symbol table, or you won't be able to store those defined functions. and so it segfaults. I can make up a test case (but it requires a C++ file
20090323 20:00:15< Sirp> fendrin: it only has very little idea about zoc
20090323 20:00:21< Crab_> boucman: so, I've got it to segfault, it's not preventive
20090323 20:00:28< boucman> ok
20090323 20:00:46< boucman> Crab_: no need then, I'll commit as is
20090323 20:02:43< Crab_> boucman: that is the reason I've added a new function to formula_ai.?pp -  I've needed to get my hands on that symbol table. and since it's private, and I don't like exposing non-const pointers to private members (violates encapsulation), I've created a new method which delegates the creation of a formula from file to the ai (which has access to that symbol table). That was also the reason for run_file being in formula_ai.cpp -> it req
20090323 20:03:32< boucman> ok, makes sense
20090323 20:04:30< Crab_> happygrue: no. Regarding multiplayer, I've only played hotseat with friends, and got my hands on some MP replays a few days ago (thanks to hint from Tesafilmchen)
20090323 20:04:39< CIA-70> boucman * r34067 /trunk/src/formula.cpp: preemptive handling of null pointers in FAI, patch by Crab (patch 1136)
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20090323 20:07:02< happygrue> Crab_: I ask, because I thought I was 'pretty great' at Wesnoth until I started playing online.  It wasn't until I watched some _very_ good people playing that I realized how complicated Wesnoth really is.  I wonder if watching some high quality games would help when thinking about the AI.
20090323 20:07:14< YogiHH> hi kitty_
20090323 20:07:32< kitty_> hi
20090323 20:07:41< happygrue> granted it is apples and oranges, but a good understanding of the game can only help, right?  ;)
20090323 20:08:05< Crab_> happygrue: yes, you are right ) that was one of the reasons I've asked about the replays a few days ago. I was thinking about trying ai position evaluator on them too ))
20090323 20:08:35< Velory> boucman: i also removed other formulas from Scenario_formula.cfg because i noticed there is error in other formula not mine formula(with help of Dragonking).After i removed this formulas,my patch is working well. I think there is a problem with some move formula.In scenario_formula.cfg 
20090323 20:08:47< fendrin> YogiHH: I thought about the ai going for village clusters thing again. I have come to the conclusion that it is better disabled completely for now.
20090323 20:08:55< boucman> Velory: ok, noted
20090323 20:09:08< YogiHH> fendrin: what made you think so in the first place?
20090323 20:10:51< Dragonking> boucman: Will look into it.
20090323 20:10:52< fendrin> YogiHH: going for village clusters does only make sense if there is no line of villages that garantees the capture of a village per turn. I don't see the need to go for a cluster that is 5 turns away to collect 5 villages per turn after reaching it if the can collect 10 villages in the same time. And the current implementation does make that mistake.
20090323 20:11:04< boucman> Dragonking: ??
20090323 20:11:57< YogiHH> fendrin: yes, i see. Are you going to do that change by yourself or do you want me to do it?
20090323 20:12:34< fendrin> YogiHH: If you point me to the c++ region I can try it myself.
20090323 20:13:06< Crab_> boucman: I'm also thinking about extending run_file to allow running fai scripts with additional 'me' or ['me' and 'target'] set as parameters. This is to allow writing candidate moves and such in the .fai and testing them from console. What do you think ?
20090323 20:13:19< boucman> afk, tel
20090323 20:13:33< Dragonking> boucman:  scenario-fromula.cfg thing mentioned by Velory 
20090323 20:15:00< Always-Godlike> I want to compile 1.6a on my eee, but ./configure wants SDL >= 1.2.7, i've installed 1.2.13 :(
20090323 20:16:45< YogiHH> fendrin: ai_move.cpp, line 203-225 (basically everything about "new_values"
20090323 20:16:58< fendrin> YogiHH: Thanks.
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20090323 20:17:42< fendrin> Always-Godlike: Maybe you miss the -dev packages of sdl?
20090323 20:18:13< fendrin> Always-Godlike: On what operating system are you on?
20090323 20:18:31-!- res|laptop [n=res@pdpc/supporter/student/res2k] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 20:18:33< Always-Godlike> mh... i think i upgraded all packages, but wait [opensuse 11.0]
20090323 20:19:02< Always-Godlike> SDL-devel iss 1.2.13 too
20090323 20:19:06< fendrin> Always-Godlike: the -dev packages are not installed per default.
20090323 20:19:18< fendrin> Always-Godlike: So they don't get updated.
20090323 20:19:40< Always-Godlike> i know, but i already compiled 1.4 a few days ago
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20090323 20:22:18< res|laptop> boucman, Sirp: I submitted the proxy_string to the patch tracker, as you asked
20090323 20:22:59< res|laptop> boucman, Sirp: but consider that it would make most sense only with later changes to config string storage; on it's own it's prolly more a slowdown than any benefit
20090323 20:23:13< fendrin> Always-Godlike: My sdl is 1.2.13 as well, can you pastebin the scons output?
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20090323 20:24:14< Always-Godlike> scon ? i think i should read the INSTALL -.-
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20090323 20:25:54< fendrin> Always-Godlike: scons is a substitude for the autobuild system (configure/make).
20090323 20:25:58< boucman> res|laptop: I was about to test/commit, but if you consider it not ready, I'll wait for commit
20090323 20:26:16< boucman> (I'll comment anyway, it will avoid doing it later)
20090323 20:27:48< Always-Godlike> but it also should work with autobuild? 
20090323 20:29:19< boucman> Crab_: the question is : would run_ai only be to debug candidate moves, or would it also be usefull for other purpose ?
20090323 20:29:45< Crab_> boucman: I want this as an optional possibility that extends the utility of run_file
20090323 20:30:05< boucman> I think you can set global var, and having a global var called "me" would allow to test too in an easier way
20090323 20:30:18< Crab_> boucman: Of course, I want it to be useful for other purposes.
20090323 20:30:42< boucman> on the other hand a "give me a hex" which would return the coordinate of the selected hex could be usefull 
20090323 20:30:44< Crab_> boucman: the ai is recreated for each console command. will the global vars survive that ?
20090323 20:30:59< boucman> Crab_: not sure, worth testing, though 
20090323 20:31:22< boucman> we need a way to "load libraries" for when we have standar FAI libraries of functions
20090323 20:31:55< fendrin> Always-Godlike: As far as I know both systems are supported.
20090323 20:32:16< Crab_> boucman: btw, run_file can act as a 'load library' already - it asks the ai to add all 'def'-s in the file to the ai symbol table
20090323 20:32:34< Always-Godlike> yeah, so it is said in the INSTALL. but why ./configure thinks my SDL is lower than 1.2.7?
20090323 20:32:35< Crab_> boucman: but, with may .fai files, we'll run into polluted namespace problems.
20090323 20:32:35< boucman> ok
20090323 20:32:53< boucman> we're not there yet :P
20090323 20:33:02< Crab_> boucman: sooner or later we'll be there )
20090323 20:33:16< boucman> more seriously, you should focus on doing your proof of concept AI, only implement that sort of stuff if you need it
20090323 20:33:59< Crab_> boucman: I need a way to relax from all those 'thinking about and contemplating approaches and writing notes', from time to time :)
20090323 20:34:11< boucman> :)
20090323 20:34:39< fendrin> Always-Godlike: can you try using scons? If that works you have discovered a problem with the autobuild system of wesnoth.
20090323 20:34:51< boucman> tbh having "me" and "target" be special cases in run_fai seems not generic to me, so I wonder if there is a more generic way to do that...
20090323 20:35:00< Crab_> boucman: and, I've got ~16 hours of free time per day - for my lectures are already over and exams are already over (in february) - only a few things to do left before  I graduate
20090323 20:35:15< boucman> sounds good :)
20090323 20:35:16< Always-Godlike> i discovered that i haven't installed automake and autoconf :) maybe that helps
20090323 20:36:01< Crab_> boucman: generic way such as ' run_file('foo', me = bar) ?
20090323 20:36:08< boucman> Sirp: http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/23/042215 :)
20090323 20:36:11< Always-Godlike> hmmm... doesnt helps, i'll try scons
20090323 20:36:20< Crab_> boucman: we can 'evaluate' all args 
20090323 20:36:38< boucman> Crab_: I'll let you think about it,
20090323 20:36:41< Crab_> ok
20090323 20:36:52< Velory> Dragonking:i think there is no problem in scenario cfg. But its some  coincidance between units that i added to scenario-formula.cfg and  opening.fai moves
20090323 20:36:53< fendrin> Always-Godlike: I believe you only need automake and autoconf are needed to generate the configure script, which is included in a release and so you don't need the packages.
20090323 20:37:06< Velory> s/scenario.cfg/scenario-formula.cfg
20090323 20:37:28< Dragonking> Velory: Maybe in path of the walking corpse?
20090323 20:37:55< Dragonking> Velory: Please investigate that and submit a patch once you find out the problem.
20090323 20:38:43< Velory> Yes i think and maybe with this lines http://pastebin.com/d4caecb93
20090323 20:40:45< Velory> Dragonking:Ok will do
20090323 20:40:57< Dragonking> Great. :)
20090323 20:41:07-!- silene [n=plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 20:41:19< silene> hi
20090323 20:41:54< Velory> Dragonking: Can you explain me this line i dont know how to use *move* move="{ai/formula/opening.fai}" 
20090323 20:42:14< Velory> Dragonking:or any documentation or cpp,hpp files that i can look?
20090323 20:42:33< Crab_> hi silene
20090323 20:42:38< Dragonking> move= defines formula for AI side
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20090323 20:43:19< Dragonking> It is executed in loop as long as formula on the right side of the = returns a valid move.
20090323 20:44:02< Dragonking> In code it is in formula_ai.cpp, around constructor.
20090323 20:44:10< Dragonking> It is base of AI movement.
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20090323 20:51:05< Velory> Dragonking:ok thank you
20090323 20:51:47< boucman> alink: around ?
20090323 20:52:06< alink> boucman: yes but not for long
20090323 20:52:33< boucman> alink: with the whole conversion we did, do you see a huge improvement cpu-wise ?
20090323 20:54:35< alink> boucman: sorry, i didn't focused on that when testing the patch on 1.6,  but when I used the default in_hex=yes, the improvement was important on view with big pack of units
20090323 20:55:00< boucman> ok, I'm still investigating if porting to 1.6 is worth it...
20090323 20:55:09< boucman> since I don't see any pb in the first place here...
20090323 20:55:17< alink> I expect to be the same for 1.6, only few units use in_hex=no
20090323 20:55:39< boucman> alink: you didn't backport the whole set of in_hex changes yet ?
20090323 20:55:48< boucman> (on your local copy, I mean)
20090323 20:56:09< alink> no but i have a nice patch ready and i applied it on my local 1.6
20090323 20:56:42< alink> i will post it in the patch-report
20090323 20:57:00< boucman> ok, so you didn't see any improvement in your local copy ? :P
20090323 20:57:31< alink> yes i saw improvement when focusing on it
20090323 20:58:22< alink> (with my initial patch, not the current one, but should be the same)
20090323 20:58:28< Velory> Dragonking:I think this formulas are created for just test scenario spesificaly so if i create new monster with adding [unit] line in scenario-formula some units attack units that i added and this formulas cant execute so we take errors.So should i  remove my monsters (i added monsters for test poisonin improvement formula) or should i change other formulas ?
20090323 20:58:49< Velory> s/spesificaly/specificly
20090323 20:59:23< alink> and that is watching fps and cpu and usage. I could create case where the difference was 20% cpu instead of 100% and 45fps instead of 20, and things like that
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20090323 21:00:23< alink> but i will test again on a patched 1.6 and check these numbers exactly on a heavy savegame, so we will have a point of comparaison
20090323 21:00:31< Dragonking> Velory: YOu may create whole new scenario for poison testing purposes.
20090323 21:00:54< fabi> Always-Godlike: did scons do the job?
20090323 21:00:56< Velory> Velory:Ok good idea :)
20090323 21:01:03< boucman> maybe by playing a replay and using the "time" utility with and without the patch
20090323 21:02:32< cjhopman> boucman, i can profile it for you
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20090323 21:03:17< Always-Godlike> fabi: it stopped and i got a wesnothd, but it doesnt start. but wait, i'm trying to do it again, then i'll pastebin the output 
20090323 21:03:30< cjhopman> see here for some profiling i've done already http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Cjhopman_profiling
20090323 21:03:37< boucman> cjhopman: well, if alink doesn't manage to convince me, we'll ask, but the patch is quite large (touches most unit cfg files)
20090323 21:03:49< boucman> cjhopman: yeah, I saw that, pretty interesting
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20090323 21:03:55< cjhopman> ok
20090323 21:04:09< boucman> and I think all the "<" call are the lookups in the image cache table, but I'm not sure
20090323 21:04:33< alink> boucman: well in introduce a new key unused by the old code, so I think it's safe
20090323 21:04:56< boucman> alink: in that case, pastebing your patch for cjhopman
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20090323 21:06:06< alink> posted in patch #1134
20090323 21:06:13< boucman> ok, thx
20090323 21:06:21< alink> testing cpu usage and fps now
20090323 21:17:03< Always-Godlike> fendrin: wait a bit, i see SDL_ttf-devel wasn't installed... maybe i get it :)
20090323 21:18:25< Always-Godlike> k, now configure doesnt ends at SDL :)
20090323 21:19:27< fendrin> Always-Godlike: Let's see, you discovered the bug that the autoconf/autoboild system didn't call for a missing sdl_ttf but only for a outdated sdl?
20090323 21:19:49< Always-Godlike> is that a bug? :)
20090323 21:20:18< Always-Godlike> k, it seems to be so, because now configure just did it
20090323 21:20:56-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit []
20090323 21:21:21< fendrin> Always-Godlike: I call it a bug. Please fill a bug report at bugs.wesnoth.org . That will ensure it being fixed.
20090323 21:21:45< Always-Godlike> i also got a problem compiling 1.4, with building the rpm: he wanted to create /usr/local/share/man/<language>  but couldnt do it. i created them manually and it worked :P
20090323 21:22:15< Always-Godlike> my first bug report :>
20090323 21:22:30< fendrin> Always-Godlike: 1.4 is now obsolete/depricated. No need to fill a bug report if this is fixed for 1.6.
20090323 21:22:54< Always-Godlike> k
20090323 21:23:18< fendrin> Always-Godlike: Thank you for the report.
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20090323 21:30:44< Ivan_Popov> Hello
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20090323 21:31:38< Always-Godlike> Release is the Version of wesnoth? 
20090323 21:31:43< Always-Godlike> hi Ivan_Popov
20090323 21:33:19< CIA-70> zookeeper * r34069 /trunk/data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/02_The_Human_Army.cfg: Fixed the scenario not ending when stepping on the signpost.
20090323 21:33:25< CIA-70> zookeeper * r34068 /trunk/data/campaigns/Liberty/units/Villagers.cfg: Removed the custom XP limits from the villager units, since otherwise they can end up with more than max XP after the outlaw transformation (and triggering advancements in that situation would be somewhat strange).
20090323 21:35:16< alink> boucman: for example the standing anim of these 2 ghosts  make my fps drop below 30fps and cpu go up to 75% (just for rendering), with the patch it's a strong 50fps (the max) and below 50% cpu   http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5127/2ghost.png
20090323 21:37:09< alink> flags have less impact here, but I think that if i mix flags from diffenrent side in the middle of a battle, I could create a clear case where the patch helps too
20090323 21:38:07< boucman> alink: ok, I'm convinced :)
20090323 21:38:25< alink> but i really need to go, I upload a proper savegame later
20090323 21:38:36< alink> boucman: the sunset function is clear too
20090323 21:38:49< fendrin> Always-Godlike: yes, you should fill 1.6a in.
20090323 21:39:33< CIA-70> zookeeper * r34070 /branches/1.6/data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/02_The_Human_Army.cfg: Ported r34069 to 1.6.
20090323 21:39:47< alink> as in "we referesh only few hexes instead of half of the screen "
20090323 21:40:38< alink> bbl
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20090323 21:41:30< silene> alink: currently, the game refreshes the entire (!) screen each frame, even if there is nothing; will your patch help?
20090323 21:42:49< alink> silene:  "the game refreshes the entire screen" when there is a lot of connected units, and yes the patch will help that
20090323 21:43:33< silene> alink: ok, so the patch won't help; as i said, it refreshes the whole screen even if there are no units
20090323 21:43:34< alink> (connected even by one emtpy hex)
20090323 21:44:05< alink> silene: well here it doens't refresh the whole screen
20090323 21:44:33< alink> if nothing move, it refresh nothing
20090323 21:44:36< silene> alink: what do you use for checking that? i'm using xephyr, and it clearly shows that x receives the whole screen each frame
20090323 21:44:54< boucman> silene: we use the "sunset" command
20090323 21:44:56< CIA-70> zookeeper * r34071 /branches/1.6/data/campaigns/Liberty/units/Villagers.cfg: Ported r34068 to trunk.
20090323 21:45:13< boucman> silene: we have a buffer switch every redraw, but buffer switches shouldn't be costy
20090323 21:45:29< boucman> and that's probably what X receives
20090323 21:45:45< alink> silene: what i mean is that SDL don't redraw each little tile every time
20090323 21:46:16< alink> and yse we do a SDL_Flip every 20ms, but when nothing was changed between frame, it's cheap
20090323 21:46:22< alink> s/yse/yes
20090323 21:46:46< silene> cheap?
20090323 21:46:55< alink> "cpu cheap"
20090323 21:47:45< cjhopman> should be very cheap
20090323 21:48:27< Always-Godlike> bug reported ;)
20090323 21:48:43< alink> silene:   try  :benchmark to see what happen if the engine redraw everything each frame, that is cpu expensive
20090323 21:49:46< alink> I drop to 8fps here with  :benchmark, but sreen size is a factor
20090323 21:49:55< alink> s/sreen/screen
20090323 21:50:26< silene> alink: oh, i'm quite sure wesnoth can be a lot slower, you don't have to convince me; but the fact that a screen is completely sent to X every 20ms worries me a bit, it's alot of memory bandwidth (even if it's cheap from a cpu point of view)
20090323 21:51:04< alink> ah i think i remember something about that with SDL_Flip and X, checking
20090323 21:52:07< cjhopman> 3.6% of time spent in CVideo::flip().
20090323 21:52:49< cjhopman> 3.3% from that in Xsync
20090323 21:52:57< Sirp> boucman: cool! :)
20090323 21:53:11< boucman> Sirp: the slashdot thing ?
20090323 21:53:17< Sirp> boucman: yes.
20090323 21:53:24< boucman> indeed :)
20090323 21:53:35< silene> cjhopman: does this measure account for wesnoth only, or does it also count the X side?
20090323 21:53:39< Sirp> boucman: do we even know who submitted the story?
20090323 21:54:27< boucman> I don't...
20090323 21:54:41< boucman> but it seem they did slashdot our server
20090323 21:54:58< Sirp> boucman: well doubtless, it made the front page!
20090323 21:55:12< Velory> Dragon,boucman:I finished my test scenario i wil upload
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20090323 21:56:40< alink> silene: I don't find the link now, but anyways, it's how double-buffered SDL work, I don't think there is another way.
20090323 21:57:37< cjhopman> silene: ya got me... but i think at worst while it waits for x to do stuff wesnoth waits
20090323 21:57:56< alink> really must go now, afk
20090323 21:58:20< cjhopman> in fact there is a xcb_wait_for_reply() that is at 3.2%
20090323 21:59:55< silene> that's strange they appear as using cputime, both xsync and xcb_wait_for_reply are supposed to do what their names imply, that is wait :-)
20090323 22:00:35< silene> i guess the time must be spent in the kernel instead possible moving between the memory mappings of wesnoth and x
20090323 22:00:51< silene> possibly moving pages*
20090323 22:01:20< cjhopman> the profiling i'm doing just takes samples like ~100 times a second... probably just something like a backtrace
20090323 22:01:34< Sirp> boucman: interesting is that almost all comments actually seem really positive too
20090323 22:01:46< boucman> indeed
20090323 22:01:53< silene> cjhopman: ok, that makes sense then
20090323 22:01:58< cjhopman> but i thought it was 100 times per cpu second
20090323 22:02:01< boucman> that's pretty rare on slashdot
20090323 22:03:26< ilor> Sirp, boucman, ah, browse at -1 to see those lovely "omg graphics sux! oss games suck!" ones ;)
20090323 22:03:37< boucman> :P
20090323 22:03:48< Sirp> ilor: ahhhh. :)
20090323 22:04:01< Sirp> well good to know that slashdot likes us enough to moderate such comments away. :)
20090323 22:04:27< boucman> Sirp: we have both keywords
20090323 22:04:33< boucman> "open source" "games"
20090323 22:04:42< boucman> slashdot could not not like us :P
20090323 22:04:44< ilor> nice quote in one of the comments regarding graphics
20090323 22:04:47< ilor> While NetHack's graphics may seem primitive by today's standards, today's gameplay seems primitive by NetHack standards
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20090323 22:14:18< Velory> boucman:check https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1138 if u have a time i added my test scenario too. :)
20090323 22:14:32< boucman> I will have a look a bit later
20090323 22:14:46< boucman> are you happy with it, no more bug, no other checks to do ?
20090323 22:15:32< Velory> yes
20090323 22:15:35< Velory> working well
20090323 22:15:38< Velory> now
20090323 22:17:57< Velory> poisoner look range to unpoisoned members if he can find any attack with his poisoned weapon.If no unpoisoned members there-or unpoisoned member with 5 hp or all units immune to poison,have ability to regeneraiont- eval code returns -1...
20090323 22:18:09< Velory> s/to/to find
20090323 22:21:39< Velory> boucman: i added 1 line to main.cfg should i add main.cfg as .patch file too?
20090323 22:21:52< boucman> Velory: ??
20090323 22:21:58-!- newt [n=newt@c-98-212-201-198.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #wesnoth-dev ["Leaving..."]
20090323 22:22:10< Velory> i added 1 line to main.cfg -> {scenario-poisoning.cfg}
20090323 22:22:13< boucman> there should be only one patch for all modified files (the output of svn diff)
20090323 22:22:22< Velory> hmm
20090323 22:22:24< Velory> ok
20090323 22:22:31< boucman> but why did you need your own scenario ?
20090323 22:24:52< cjhopman> i was actually thinking that we could have an ai-test scenario where we can test to see if an ai uses things smartly... i.e. poison, leadership, zoc, etc..
20090323 22:25:06< cjhopman> basically just set up a bunch of situations and see how smartly or dumbly the ai handles it
20090323 22:25:48< YogiHH> cjhopman: as far as i know, fendrin is working on that already
20090323 22:26:22< YogiHH> not sure how far he got, though, but he has made up test-scenarios
20090323 22:27:57-!- Ivan_Popov [n=killer@78-83-64-179.spectrumnet.bg] has quit ["Respect all..."]
20090323 22:28:00< Velory> boucman:because if i werent write my scenario i must remove scenario-formula.cfg.Because scenario-formula.cfg has some specific moves like (formula="move(me.loc, nearest_loc(nearest_loc(me.loc,map(filter(map.terrain,id='castle'),loc)),unit_moves(me.loc)))") and code lines like(move="{ai/formula/opening.fai}" ) and when i create new unit with poisoning ability in scenario-formula.cfg it creates coinsidence with my patch.Thats not a bug it just specific 
20090323 22:28:32< Velory> s/i must remove scenario-formula.cfg/i must remove candidate_moves in scenario formula.cfg
20090323 22:28:37< boucman> can't you create your units in such a way that it doesn't colide ?
20090323 22:28:42< boucman> in what way does it colide ?
20090323 22:29:49< Ivanovic> Sirp: what do you think, will add revenue be better this month?
20090323 22:30:07< Ivanovic> (thanks to /. and many other places mentioning our 1.6 release)
20090323 22:30:12< Velory> yes i can create but after i created some formula units attacking my own created units but after that for example move="{ai/formula/opening.fai}" line wants to move unit that attacked my units to some location that he cant reach
20090323 22:30:35< Velory> s/after i created/After i created units.Some
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20090323 22:31:44< boucman> Velory: I'm not sure I understand
20090323 22:33:20-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20090323 22:35:15< Velory> Velory:ok. Yes i could. But in-game formulaunits-other units created by Dragonking- can attack my new units. If this units do attack it means they changed his location or maybe they can die.However after turn other candidate moves or lines like -> move="{ai/formula/opening.fai}" want to move formulaunits
20090323 22:35:21< Sirp> Ivanovic: depends on the sustained traffic increase. I'm also trying a different ads provider than Google this month to see if they can give us a better return.
20090323 22:35:34< Velory> s/Velory:/boucman:
20090323 22:35:45 * Shadow_Master pokes AI0867 again
20090323 22:36:02< Ivanovic> at least this month is over soon, so that we won't end with too many problems due to the sudden increase in bandwidth usage
20090323 22:36:18< Velory> formulaunits= other units which created by Dragon king to test other formulas
20090323 22:36:25 * Shadow_Master ignores wintermute in the mod forum
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20090323 22:36:46< boucman> Velory: and there is no way for your units to be created with out interfering with the others ?
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20090323 22:38:55< Velory> Yes there may some ways but i dont know what creatures will do after 6 turns for example i can create 2 units in empty area with no unit in range but after 5 turns my units might move to near of other units and create some coinsidence
20090323 22:39:49< Crab_> Velory: and what if you 'ward off' some section of a map with impassable terrain ? creating an arena of sorts ;)
20090323 22:40:12< Velory> hmm :D
20090323 22:40:58< Velory> yes it can be but why? i can reduce all coinsidence poisbilities to 0 with new scenario and i can test my poisoning improvement whole map :)
20090323 22:41:15< Velory> s/it/i
20090323 22:41:22< Velory> no swap:D
20090323 22:41:52< boucman> Velory: yes but it adds a file for very little purpose and it doesn't solve the problem you discoverd with the FAI test map
20090323 22:42:23< Velory> problem u mean in scenario_formula.fai ?
20090323 22:43:29-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 22:43:59< boucman>  scenario-formula.cfg
20090323 22:44:07< Velory> and btw i hadnt any idea about creating my own scenario :) Dragonking give me idea about that he said Velory: You may create whole new scenario for poison testing purposes.
20090323 22:44:10< boucman> if I understand correctly your problem
20090323 22:44:24< Velory> ok
20090323 22:44:25< boucman> Velory: yes, I was there
20090323 22:44:34< Velory> i will try to explain with codes
20090323 22:44:42< boucman> ok
20090323 22:45:22< Dragonking> boucman: There is no problem with scenario-formula.cfg
20090323 22:45:44< boucman> Dragonking: I must admit the problem is not very clear to me, could you explain ?
20090323 22:45:45< Dragonking> Thing is we can't test everytihng in such small test scenario, we need new ones from time to time too.
20090323 22:46:12< boucman> couldn't we test with a bigger map, or do we have to have one map per test-case ?
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20090323 22:46:37< Dragonking> We could make biger one, true.
20090323 22:46:52< boucman> but ?
20090323 22:46:55< Dragonking> But still I'd make this big one besides current one
20090323 22:47:14< boucman> why ?
20090323 22:47:40< Dragonking> I'd like ot use one with formulas for units tests, and bigger one for some bigger formula usages.
20090323 22:48:12< Dragonking> I was about to add new scenario when I started working on poison thing myself some time ago.
20090323 22:48:24< boucman> you lost that one too ?
20090323 22:48:42< Dragonking> Yea, but adding scenario is reasonably simple
20090323 22:49:32< Velory> boucman:and there is scenario-formula-recruitment.cfg its small test too i think
20090323 22:49:52< Crab_> Dragonking: can we just make one 'big enough' map with two sections and have 'smaller left' section with 'steppable tiles for different AI formulas' and another 'bigger right' section (inreachable from the first) that is empty. and make nothing happen in the right part unless you trigger the "units appearing and actions from specific formula file considered" by stepping on some tile in the left part ?
20090323 22:50:11< Dragonking> We can.
20090323 22:50:21< Crab_> this will allow one map to be used with may different tests, and the tests will not interfere with each other.
20090323 22:50:37< Dragonking> But still it won't work with recruitment testing.
20090323 22:50:40< Velory> Crab_:but working on small map with specific tests are gives good results i think
20090323 22:50:52< Dragonking> Since different units on a map -> different unit strenght evaluation.
20090323 22:51:21< Crab_> Dragonking: can't the script create units for self and delete them afterwards ?
20090323 22:51:55< Dragonking> DO you want to write such complicated script just to prevent adding one or two new files?
20090323 22:51:59< Dragonking> I would not bother, really.
20090323 22:53:00< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: more or less, how much time will it take to have 1.6.1?
20090323 22:53:03< Velory> and when new people want to test something in scenario it will so difficult part
20090323 22:53:07< Dragonking> Anyway, do whatever you want with scenario-formula.cfg, just please don't touch scenario-recruitment. :)
20090323 22:53:11< Crab_> Dragonking: ok
20090323 22:53:20< Velory> hehe :)
20090323 22:53:35-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 22:54:30 * Velory will remove all scenario-recruitment.cfg s in the world ni-ha-ha-ha :p
20090323 22:55:51< boucman> Velory: ok, I will add your new scenario, we will remove them when we clean up all those scenario and have a new smarter test one
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20090323 22:56:38< Velory> boucman:ok 
20090323 22:56:47< Dragonking> So far scenario-formula.cfg is test to simple and quickly show people some basig formula usages.
20090323 22:57:01< Dragonking> And there is one unit test for that I think too.
20090323 23:01:17< Crab_> Dragonking, and regarding the complexity of the script.. can't it be solved with just adding two functions to 'set up everything for the test' and 'tear down after testing' to each .fai that wants to be 'unit-testable' ? functions such as 'def setup(  )' and 'def teardown(  )' . the first will be called on beginning of the test, and the second will be called at the end.  Then it would be possible to load an arena-type map, open the con
20090323 23:01:45-!- Sapient [n=sapien-x@c-71-204-10-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 23:02:27< Crab_> so - it can be made even no avoid need to change .cfg for that map for testing new .fai functions
20090323 23:02:28< Velory> boucman:i attached poisoning_improve_final.patch all changes in one file ok ?
20090323 23:03:11< boucman> Velory: I won't have time today, I'll review your patch (probably on wensday evening unless another dev reviews it first)
20090323 23:03:21< Crab_> or extract some common setups to a separate .fai
20090323 23:04:03< Velory> pff im not logged in when i was attaching.So attacher seems None.Will it create any problem ?
20090323 23:04:05< Crab_> so testing will be two commands like "run_file('setup.fai') " plus " unit_test('my.fai')"
20090323 23:04:51< zookeeper> cool, trying to put invalid tracks on a playlist seems to freeze wesnoth..
20090323 23:05:36< Sapient> zookeeper: not cool ~_~
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20090323 23:06:07< Sapient> well, thanks to the new "stable" release, it looks like we will finally get some bug reports
20090323 23:06:13< zookeeper> yeah
20090323 23:06:18< zookeeper> those seem to be flowing in
20090323 23:06:30< Sapient> hopefully in the tracker, not just the forums
20090323 23:06:44< zookeeper> of there's plenty in the tracker too, i think
20090323 23:12:42-!- Pclaudiu [n=popaclau@213.233.90.135] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 23:12:52< Pclaudiu> Huh, finally!
20090323 23:13:09< Pclaudiu> Ok, hello peeps, first. My name is Popa Claudiu.
20090323 23:13:16< Sapient> yo Pclaudiu
20090323 23:13:23< Pclaudiu> Now, second, I am here for some google summer of code issue.
20090323 23:13:36< Pclaudiu> To whom I must speak?
20090323 23:13:43< Sapient> speak and be heard
20090323 23:13:48< Sapient> this is the channel
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20090323 23:14:34< Dragonking> Crab_: I was thinking rather about this problem: we have scenario for unit tests, one of the test is a test that moves unit A from some location to another and checks if move() works correctly. But now if someone wants to extend this scenario, he has to be aware of that and for example not block path for a unit, not put other units at destination, not remove A unit... etc
20090323 23:15:02< Pclaudiu> Ok, ok. I am so excited. Because I never used this software. :p
20090323 23:15:26< Pclaudiu> I think the next point is to start a wiki page about my idea, right? 
20090323 23:15:52< Crab_> Dragonking: maybe execution of a unit test should be made conditional or 'on-demand' ?
20090323 23:15:54< Sapient> that would be a good idea, yes; have you joined the forums also?
20090323 23:16:01< Pclaudiu> Yes.
20090323 23:16:13< Sapient> Pclaudiu: what is your forum name?
20090323 23:16:18< Pclaudiu> Pclaudiu
20090323 23:16:22< Dragonking> Crab_: I don't follow.
20090323 23:16:24< Pclaudiu> Or PClaudiu.
20090323 23:16:25< Crab_> Dragonking: so all units stand still, and only specific test(s) do their work
20090323 23:16:42< Dragonking> Crab_: Do you know how we can setup unit tests for wesnoth?
20090323 23:17:21< Dragonking> We have file that defines some moves and checks outcomes, if we want to perform test, we build wesnoth with option to build tests too.
20090323 23:17:38< Pclaudiu> Well, to be honest, I want to work on Ai project.
20090323 23:17:58< Dragonking> Then we execute ./tests and defined test is "messing" with scenario.
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20090323 23:18:26< Pclaudiu> My bachelor will kinda be in this, so will be interesting.
20090323 23:18:55< Crab_> Dragonking:  yes, I've seen that code.
20090323 23:19:13< Crab_> Dragonking: I was thinking about a way to start a test from fai in-game console.
20090323 23:19:20< Sapient> Pclaudiu: we get a lot of people interested in the AI but they often underestimate its difficulty
20090323 23:19:41< boucman> Crab_, DragonkingI think we have two problems that are mixed here
20090323 23:19:49< boucman> 1) test the formula language and formulas
20090323 23:19:53< boucman> 2) test the AI
20090323 23:19:54< Pclaudiu> Ow, yes, I understand it's difficulty. 
20090323 23:20:04< Crab_> boucman: you are right.
20090323 23:20:06< Dragonking> Crab_: Wouldn't it just be simpler to keep one scenario for testing purposes, and one for showing off formula possibilities?
20090323 23:20:12< Sapient> Pclaudiu: I am sending you a link
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20090323 23:20:29< Crab_> Dragonking: two is ok.
20090323 23:20:31< Dragonking> I'm talking about unit tests - so simple tests for bugs.
20090323 23:20:39 * zookeeper notes that he thinks that all the people who have underestimated its difficulty have stated that they understand its difficulty ;)
20090323 23:20:42< zookeeper> (just saying)
20090323 23:21:09< Crab_> Dragonking: ok
20090323 23:21:24< Dragonking> I agree that having dozen of files just to test some things is bad idea.
20090323 23:21:58< YogiHH> hmm, we got a savegame information that is solely used for nunit?
20090323 23:22:09< Dragonking> But having 2-3 files should not be a problem (3rd file is my recruitment, I pla on removing it anyway after I make better way of testing it)
20090323 23:22:26 * YogiHH wonders what that one will be doing
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20090323 23:24:09< Always-Godlike> fendrin: I created the rpm now, but Yast makes problems now ;) I will solve this tomorrow
20090323 23:24:10< Always-Godlike> n8
20090323 23:25:07< Sapient> I am trying to search the wiki for that page Sirp wrote about WhyCodingAnAIisNotEasy
20090323 23:25:14< Sapient> does anyone have the link?
20090323 23:25:21< boucman> Sapient: gimme a sec
20090323 23:25:31< Crab_> Sapient, http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WhyWritingAWesnothAIIsHard
20090323 23:25:34< boucman> http://wesnoth.org/wiki/WhyWritingAWesnothAIIsHard
20090323 23:25:39< boucman> darn, too slow
20090323 23:25:51< Crab_> :-P
20090323 23:25:51< Sapient> why does the wiki search suck so bad?
20090323 23:26:10< Sapient> you would think "Hard" would turn up a title match, but no
20090323 23:27:17< Crab_> Sapient, maybe because the word is too common and it doesn't put title matches first ?
20090323 23:27:43< Velory> D,B,C:) : So i think we can create one medium or large general_test-scenario map with some arenas for general tests like my formula(no specific movements will include in this scenario).  And for specific tests users will create their scenarios and we can remove scenarios after we tested maybe ? 
20090323 23:27:46< Sapient> Hard is pretty uncommon in wiki page titles
20090323 23:28:03< Sapient> there is a separate section for page title matches
20090323 23:29:00< Sapient> we need a page explaining WhySearchingWikiIsHard
20090323 23:29:01-!- zookeeper [n=l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20090323 23:29:29< Dragonking> More like WhySearchingWikiIsNotEasy ;p
20090323 23:29:41< Dragonking> So it won't be easy to find either.
20090323 23:29:49 * boucman starts a NotSoEasySearching page
20090323 23:29:54-!- Always-Godlike [n=Always-G@Yccc7.y.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090323 23:29:59< Velory> haha:)
20090323 23:30:00< Sapient> lol ;p
20090323 23:30:01-!- ilor [n=user@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090323 23:30:09-!- silene [n=plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090323 23:31:16< Crab_> boucman: with the instruction 'if you searched for something and were unable to find it quickly, please add it to NotSoEasySearching page for the future reference" )
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20090323 23:31:39< Sapient> or bug Blueblaze to fix it
20090323 23:31:51< Sapient> (our wiki maintainer)
20090323 23:32:33< Ivanovic> shadow_master: a guess for 1.6.1 is: maybe in two weeks...
20090323 23:32:43< Crab_> Velory: just to clarify, in "So i think we can create...", you are talking about boucman's point (1) or (2) ?
20090323 23:33:55-!- ivan_i [n=chatzill@ppp91-76-32-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090323 23:35:03< Velory> 2 is includes tests like poisoning right?
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20090323 23:35:13< Crab_> Velory, i think yes.
20090323 23:35:22< Velory> i point 2
20090323 23:35:36< Velory> for general tests like my formula
20090323 23:35:50< Velory> i said
20090323 23:35:56< Crab_> Velory. ok. and you want to have it as a unit test (can be executed automatically during compilation and you see just the pass/fail results) or as a 'interactive test' (where you sit and watch the ai to do someting) ?
20090323 23:36:04< ilor_> who'd be the person to ask about the wml validation gsoc project?
20090323 23:37:16< Velory> not sure i understand you but i think 2:S
20090323 23:38:06< Crab_> "2 is" : you launch the scenario in wesnoth, (do some black magic) run the command, and the AI starts to do as you told it in the files.
20090323 23:39:09< Velory> and 1 is i add some lines to scenario.test then compile and see _?
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20090323 23:40:10< Crab_> Velory: 1 means you do some black magic, then compile and see the numbers - which tests where 'ok' and which tests 'failed' (or maybe some more detailed results)
20090323 23:40:24< boucman> ilor_: Sirp probably
20090323 23:41:11< ilor_> Sirp around? ;)
20090323 23:41:30< boucman> slashdot quote about UTBS : "but when they say its aimed at "Expert" players, they weren't kidding."
20090323 23:41:32< boucman> :)
20090323 23:41:34< Velory> Crab_: 2 i think 
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20090323 23:42:50< Velory> Crab_:i think test system is good now,simple and enough
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20090323 23:44:32< Crab_> Velory: ok. so, I look at your patch and I see that you've got: scenario-poisoning.cfg with [ (1) a map; and (2) a map config ], (3) several .fai files;   (4) a small change in main.cfg. Am I right ?
20090323 23:45:03< Velory> Yes
20090323 23:46:25< Dragonking> If you want to aim for general purpose formula AI playfield that shows some formula capabilities, then formula-poison isn't best name IMHO.
20090323 23:46:32< Crab_> Velory, And the problem you have encountered earlier is that "If you would tried to add a second test to the same scenario-poisoning.cfg, it's instructions would conflict with those already in the file"  Am I right ?
20090323 23:46:40< Crab_> Dragonking: thinking about 'arena'
20090323 23:46:48< Homunculi> Hello everyone! I just spent my weekend reading up on/playing Battle for Wesnoth in anticipation of applying to be a Google summer of code student, so I just thought I'd pop into your IRC channel and say hello :-)
20090323 23:46:54< Velory> No
20090323 23:47:02< Velory> you are not right
20090323 23:47:05< boucman> well, hello :)
20090323 23:47:09< Crab_> Velory: then tell me what is right )
20090323 23:47:20< YogiHH> hello Homunculi 
20090323 23:47:31< Dragonking> Avtually that was a problem...
20090323 23:47:36< Dragonking> Actually'
20090323 23:47:58< Dragonking> If Crab_ Meant scenario-test
20090323 23:48:05< Velory> The problem is if i want to add scenario-formula
20090323 23:48:08< Homunculi> Oh, boucman, your an Admin, right?
20090323 23:48:20< Velory> because scenario-formula includes some specific movements
20090323 23:48:21< boucman> depends, but if you mean a forum admin, then yes
20090323 23:48:44< Dragonking> Homunculi: Hi. Tell us a bit about you. :)
20090323 23:49:06< Velory> So scenario-poisoning includes no instruction which is specific but it is a small map
20090323 23:49:23< Homunculi> The wiki is telling me to tell you to mark me as a GSOC Student account, so yeah... could you ark me as a GSCOC Student account plz O:-)
20090323 23:49:24< Velory> so we can create one medium or large map to test general formulas like me
20090323 23:49:34-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090323 23:49:51< Velory> because my formula need not to add some specific instructions 
20090323 23:50:12< boucman> Homunculi: your forum nick is also Homunculi ?
20090323 23:50:32-!- cjhopman_ [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
20090323 23:50:44< Homunculi> Indeed, it is
20090323 23:51:13< Velory> scenario-poisoning.cfg name may looking bad but i dont thought my scenario as a general one it can be but i think too small.
20090323 23:51:17< boucman> Homunculi: done
20090323 23:51:32< Homunculi> yay, thanks bouncman!
20090323 23:51:40< Homunculi> But yeah, I shall formally introduce myself before scolling back up to read everything I've already missed...
20090323 23:51:58-!- ivan_i [n=chatzill@ppp91-76-32-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009030422]"]
20090323 23:52:39< Crab_> Velory: let's pretend that such a map (1) is created and added into main.cfg.       Adding  a formula also needs modifying (2)- a specific map config (which, for example, uses [register_candidate_move] ), and  (3)- several .fai files.                 And  (2) is in the same file as (1). Am I right ?
20090323 23:52:43< ryochan7> I also need to have my forum account marked as a GSOC account. My account is Ryochan7.
20090323 23:52:46< Dragonking> Velory: Thenk make patch with bigger one.
20090323 23:52:50< boucman> Homunculi: good luck with that, the chan has been rather busy recently, between GSoC and the 1.6 release :P
20090323 23:53:09< boucman> ryochan7: ok
20090323 23:53:34< Homunculi> yeah, perhaps I should introduce myself on the forums instead lol
20090323 23:54:10< boucman> Homunculi: are you sure of that forum account name, I can't find it
20090323 23:54:16< Velory> Crab_: hmm yeS?
20090323 23:54:19< boucman> (I thought I had added you but actually I didn't)
20090323 23:54:42< boucman> ryochan7: done 
20090323 23:54:46< CIA-70> ilor * r34072 /trunk/src/unit_animation.cpp: 
20090323 23:54:46< CIA-70> Avoid a use of foreach where the container is a rvalue (from utils::split) by
20090323 23:54:46< CIA-70> using a local var to hold the value, since apparently it can break on some
20090323 23:54:46< CIA-70> compilers (sunpro) and such constructs seem to not be used elsewhere in the
20090323 23:54:46< CIA-70> code.
20090323 23:54:48< Homunculi> Oops, I think I might only created a GNA account and not a forum account :-/
20090323 23:55:02< ryochan7> boucman: cool. thank you.
20090323 23:55:08< boucman> ok, tell me once you're done
20090323 23:55:11< boucman> ryochan7: np
20090323 23:55:19< Homunculi> Sorry, I'll go do that now then
20090323 23:55:22< CIA-70> ilor * r34073 /branches/1.6/src/unit_animation.cpp: backport r34072 to 1.6 (avoid foreach where the container is a rvalue)
20090323 23:55:43< Crab_> Velory: so, if there is ONE shared 'big arena map' there will be problems because each formula needs it's own  (2), and they may conflict. 
20090323 23:56:10< Crab_> Velory: for example, each formula may need it's own 'units already on the map'
20090323 23:56:44< Dragonking> That's why we need to have 'big' map to be able to add new things to it.
20090323 23:57:08< Homunculi> Okay boucman, all done registering; sry about the hassle
20090323 23:57:13< Crab_> Dragonking: can we instead add the ability to load (2) from separate file ?
20090323 23:57:19< boucman> no problem
20090323 23:57:24< Dragonking> With candidate moves that should be easy, we could even specify up to 8 sides with different formulas.
20090323 23:57:37< boucman> Homunculi: done, this time*
20090323 23:57:42< Crab_> Dragonking: then there will be ONE map, and each function will be a set of files - one .cfg (without the map) and several .fai
20090323 23:58:15< Crab_> Dragonking: the map will be shared, and there will be an ability to reload the rest of the 'map info'  and 'ai info' on the fly.
20090323 23:58:20< Velory> [candidate moves take 4 lines
20090323 23:58:22< Homunculi> Yay, thanks again boucman
20090323 23:58:32< Dragonking> Crab_: I don't really see your problem.
20090323 23:58:48< Dragonking> What for reaload (2), and even what you expecially mean by (2)
20090323 23:59:45< Dragonking> Problem lies with units on a map and limited possible scope of modifications (as: adding new nice stuff) when we have small map.
--- Log closed Tue Mar 24 00:00:08 2009