--- Log opened Fri Mar 27 00:00:26 2009
--- Day changed Fri Mar 27 2009
20090327 00:00:26< CIA-30> thespaceinvader * r34165 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/ (_main.cfg images/portraits/aiglondur.png): Add the first of the new tHoT portraits by DUHH, update campaign credits.
20090327 00:01:49< CIA-30> thespaceinvader * r34166 /branches/1.6/data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/ (_main.cfg images/portraits/aiglondur.png): Add the first of the new tHoT portraits by DUHH, update campaign credits.
20090327 00:05:22< Shadow_Master> shikadibot: log 34162
20090327 00:05:29< shikadibot> Revision 34162 (ai0867, 2009-03-26 22:44:11 +0000 (Thu, 26 Mar 2009)):
20090327 00:05:29< shikadibot> Add ayona's name to the credits.
20090327 00:05:29< shikadibot> Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=34162
20090327 00:06:48-!- silene [n=plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090327 00:09:08< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34168 /trunk/po/ (4 files in 4 dirs): updated Icelandic translation
20090327 00:09:18< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34167 /branches/1.6/po/ (4 files in 4 dirs): updated Icelandic translation
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20090327 00:11:57< Ivanovic> Polarina: and now just download the new files and continue working
20090327 00:12:07< Polarina> Ivanovic: Ok. Thank you.
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20090327 00:12:52< Ivanovic> okay, i am basically off now, watching a movie and then sleeping...
20090327 00:13:05< Shadow_Master> AI0867: btw, normally we ask for their credits entry by PM.
20090327 00:13:13< Shadow_Master> or so Noyga and I do. duh.
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20090327 00:19:47< Shadow_Master> how nice.
20090327 00:20:02< CIA-30> jhinrichs * r34169 /trunk/src/ (4 files): Some little savegame refactoring: Remove function parameter from deprecated write_game function, as this parameter is always the same for all calls.
20090327 00:20:08< Shadow_Master> I sat at the only place where I can connect to the internet at home and I'm already being insulted.
20090327 00:20:25< thespaceinvader> o_O in what manner Shadow_Master 
20090327 00:20:55< Shadow_Master> in a manner that doesn't let me concentrate on my task at hand, grr.
20090327 00:21:35< Shadow_Master> Soliton: I'll get rid of that stupid forward declaration in game_config.hpp (class version_info) and include "version.hpp" there
20090327 00:22:07< Shadow_Master> no idea why I decided to insert that useless forward declaration. umm...
20090327 00:23:01< Shadow_Master> YogiHH: doing refactoring?
20090327 00:23:41< YogiHH> Shadow_Master: just a little bit, i want to leave something for the GSoC students to do ;-)
20090327 00:23:53< Shadow_Master> are you testing your changes? :-P
20090327 00:24:32< YogiHH> sure. Did you find an error already? ;-)
20090327 00:25:37< Shadow_Master> no, this frytop is busy building 1.6 :-)
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20090327 00:27:55< CIA-30> shadowmaster * r34170 /branches/1.6/src/ (game.cpp game_config.hpp): 
20090327 00:27:55< CIA-30> Get rid of a silly forward declaration of class version_info and drag
20090327 00:27:55< CIA-30> version.hpp with game_config.hpp instead.
20090327 00:28:44< CIA-30> shadowmaster * r34171 /trunk/src/ (sound_music_track.cpp sound_music_track.hpp): Fix SVN properties on a couple of new source code files.
20090327 00:32:27< CIA-30> shadowmaster * r34172 /branches/1.6/src/game_config.cpp: We no longer need version.hpp re-included in game_config.cpp
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20090327 00:34:34< Soliton> YogiHH: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13268
20090327 00:35:22< Shadow_Master> hallo fendrin 
20090327 00:36:18< YogiHH> Soliton: thanks, looks like a good candidate for an EasyCoding task to me :-)
20090327 00:38:25< Soliton> YogiHH: with a way to reproduce probably. i hope with a bit of trial and error it should be possible to get one though.
20090327 00:38:35< Shadow_Master> Soliton: thanks for noticing the version problem
20090327 00:38:48< CIA-30> shadowmaster * r34173 /trunk/src/ (game_config.cpp game_config.hpp): Port only r34170 and r34172 from 1.6 branch for now.
20090327 00:38:57< Soliton> no problem, still too late for 1.6 though.
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20090327 00:39:21< Shadow_Master> I don't think it's a problem there. It'd only affet 1.6<->1.6a saved games
20090327 00:39:40< Shadow_Master> and considering that most download links point to 1.6a...
20090327 00:40:19< Soliton> the problem is newer savegames opened with 1.6 or 1.6a.
20090327 00:40:38< fendrin> Shadow_Master: hi
20090327 00:41:56-!- Polarina [n=polarina@wesnoth/translator/Polarina] has quit ["Leaving."]
20090327 00:42:14< Shadow_Master> ah yes. Another "weird" bug for the first/first-and-a-half stable releases :/
20090327 00:50:25< Dragonking> night everyone
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20090327 00:54:10< CIA-30> jhinrichs * r34174 /trunk/src/ (4 files): Some little savegame refactoring: Rename write_game to write_snapshot and move it into the game_state class.
20090327 00:56:34< Shadow_Master> esr: you have fendrin here now.
20090327 01:00:11< YogiHH> good night everyone
20090327 01:01:05-!- YogiHH [n=chatzill@c173219.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910]"]
20090327 01:02:08< esr> fendrin: ping?
20090327 01:02:45< fendrin> esr: pong
20090327 01:02:49< Shadow_Master> \o/
20090327 01:03:19< esr> fendrin: We need to plan the next steps for DM.  What still needs to be done?
20090327 01:04:19< fendrin> esr: User feedback is all positive. Importing to trunk to gather more of it would be my prefered next step.
20090327 01:05:48< Shadow_Master> mainline trunk.
20090327 01:06:29< fendrin> yes, I had to few time for polishing low to the end before the string freeze kicked in.
20090327 01:06:59< fendrin> With the new release shedule of only 6 month it is even more important to get the campaign to mainline early.
20090327 01:07:11< fendrin> s/to/too
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20090327 01:12:06< esr> fendrin: OK.  What I'll do, then, is eask the other member of the semi-offoicial mainlining team to review it - that would be zookeeper.  If he ys "go", or all the issuies he raises are small fixable ones, I'll mainline it.
20090327 01:12:34< Shadow_Master> esr: and I'll handle the operation this time.
20090327 01:12:44< esr> OK.
20090327 01:12:56< Shadow_Master> at least at the wesnoth-umc-dev side. I don't want any mess ups or mistakes there
20090327 01:13:23< fendrin> esr: Did you review the new campaign storyline after santi added many new scenarios?
20090327 01:13:32< Shadow_Master> I have a draft of the "official mainlining procedure" in my HDD already, but I won't publish it until I try it myself
20090327 01:14:03< esr> No.  I'll schedule time to read the WML and play through it within the next week.
20090327 01:14:39< fendrin> Maps need work. Language is still a problem.
20090327 01:14:42< esr> I'll probably to a prose polish before we mainline, as well.
20090327 01:15:15< esr> Tinkering maps is no great problem, either.
20090327 01:15:17< fendrin> The new storyline seems to please the players.
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20090327 01:15:34< esr> I'll read the forum thread.
20090327 01:16:36< fendrin> There are still some minor problems with persistence (I believe the campaign is the only wich such heavy recall list manipulation)
20090327 01:17:01< fendrin> That will be one of my tasks.
20090327 01:17:33< Shadow_Master> tinkering map is brain-dead easy.
20090327 01:17:48< Shadow_Master> *s .
20090327 01:18:18< fendrin> I would like to have some special terrain for the land of the death.
20090327 01:18:45< fendrin> At least some colour changing tricks are a must have.
20090327 01:18:56< Shadow_Master> fendrin: nothing the Zw terrain in IftU can't do?
20090327 01:19:14< Shadow_Master> Zw = wasteland . It's some sort of frankenstein from Wesnoth 0.7's Uu
20090327 01:19:25< Shadow_Master> (which was just u back then)
20090327 01:20:15< fendrin> Shadow_Master: where can I see it in action?
20090327 01:21:02< Shadow_Master> fendrin: install IftU's trunk for wesnoth 1.6, launch the map editor, open map for scenario 19_Legend_of_Wesmere
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20090327 01:21:08< Shadow_Master> I *love* that pun :)
20090327 01:21:54< fendrin> Shadow_Master: do I need trunk? I have 1.1.1.1.111.1.11.1 around.
20090327 01:22:52< Shadow_Master> it's just 1.11.1.1, you silly :) and yes, it's enough
20090327 01:23:14< noy> Shadow_Master: do you get my private messages?
20090327 01:23:29< Shadow_Master> I just replied
20090327 01:23:56< Shadow_Master> I was talking with three different people by pm atm:/
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20090327 01:27:53< fendrin> Shadow_Master: the map is nice, but I am not sure about it being the land of the death. Why is the map called legend of wesmere?
20090327 01:28:11< Shadow_Master> fendrin: weren't you asking me for the _terrain_ ?
20090327 01:28:43< Shadow_Master> of course I am not suggesting that you use the map, but you asked me for a demonstration of the terrain and there you have it
20090327 01:29:25< fendrin> Shadow_Master: I tried to make a satisfying land of the death with your terrain already. But I failed.
20090327 01:29:50< Shadow_Master> then why didn't you mention it in the first place?
20090327 01:29:53< fendrin> The land of the death is some sort of other dimension. There have to be chasms with stars to be seen.
20090327 01:30:07< Shadow_Master> fendrin: there *are* chasm with stars in IftU too!
20090327 01:30:18< fendrin> cool
20090327 01:30:33< Shadow_Master> I kinda made them disappear. Check the "Dark Hive" map's southern half of the map
20090327 01:30:46< Shadow_Master> code is Qxs
20090327 01:32:21-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has quit ["night all"]
20090327 01:32:32< fendrin> great, that is what I need. Do you have more terrain that could fit?
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20090327 01:34:04< Shadow_Master> fendrin: dunno. In the editor's "Invasion from the Unknown" palette, take some terrains and paint into a map to experiment
20090327 01:34:13< Shadow_Master> fendrin: Ryd is a dark-tile road taken from UtBS
20090327 01:34:40< Sapient> I think naming boolean variables with "not" tends to be confusing
20090327 01:34:53< Sapient> leads to double-negatives
20090327 01:35:25< Shadow_Master> I think it's the only one that could fit in DM for aesthetical purposes though. All the other terrains except for the dark hive surface (Y*) ones are more like WML tricks
20090327 01:40:07< Sapient> Shadow_Master: yes, that is one correct way of using all_children_iteration
20090327 01:40:22 * Sapient referring to r34083
20090327 01:41:10< Shadow_Master> okay Sapient, but silene isn't happy with  the config counterpart of it according to his ML post
20090327 01:41:32< Shadow_Master> he was suggesting to use config::ordered_children_iterator (for config)
20090327 01:42:28< Sapient> nah...
20090327 01:43:06< Sapient> I think he was suggesting the foreach( ... all_children_range()) idiom
20090327 01:43:40< Sapient> vconfig probably has a lot less room for optimizations than config
20090327 01:44:17< Shadow_Master> "As you can guess, the next offender on my kill list is config::all_children. If you are about to use it, please wonder if config::ordered_... wouldn't do the same job just fine. This will reduce the amount of changes later when I get to it."
20090327 01:45:08< Shadow_Master> ahhh, the all_choldren( method
20090327 01:45:11< Sapient> that means using 	const child_map& all_children() const; 
20090327 01:45:16< Shadow_Master> yup
20090327 01:45:53< Sapient> there is no such thing for vconfig
20090327 01:46:38< Shadow_Master> yup
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20090327 01:53:22< CIA-30> shadowmaster * r34175 /trunk/src/game.cpp: 
20090327 01:53:22< CIA-30> Port 34149 from trunk (make saved games of stable releases be always
20090327 01:53:22< CIA-30> compatible among different releases of the same stable series).
20090327 01:54:13< Shadow_Master> s/from/to/  >.<
20090327 02:00:49< Shadow_Master> n8
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20090327 02:22:54< orian_> i was trying compile wesnoth according to http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/CompilingWesnoth but I get error "Could not find Lua51",
20090327 02:23:17< orian_> it is missing requirements of Lua
20090327 02:23:21< orian_> can I add it?
20090327 02:23:56< Crab_>  orian_, something like "aptitude install liblua5.1-0-dev"
20090327 02:24:02< orian_> ;D
20090327 02:25:28< orian_> has it be 'dev'?
20090327 02:25:38< Crab_> you need the development headers
20090327 02:25:45< orian_> aha
20090327 02:26:29< Crab_> orian_, see src/scripting/lua.cpp 
20090327 02:26:59< Crab_> it uses those headers
20090327 02:27:21< orian_> I understand
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20090327 02:55:15< cjhopman> anyone here willing to take some time and test my patch a bit? preferably someone with a lower-end system
20090327 02:55:19< cjhopman> https://gna.org/patch/?1141
20090327 02:57:20< Crab_> cjhopman: what qualifies as lower-end ?
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20090327 03:06:50< Sapient> I'm low end here ;)
20090327 03:07:20< cjhopman> Crab_: try ./wesnoth -t --max-fps 1000 --no-delay --fps
20090327 03:07:26< cjhopman> and tell me what fps you get
20090327 03:09:48< Crab_> done "./wesnoth-debug -t --max-fps 1000 --no-delay --fps" . fps highly depends upon map location and what I'm doing. around 300 on the initial screen.
20090327 03:10:11< Crab_> drops to 45-60 when I'm scrolling
20090327 03:12:26< orian_> night all :)
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20090327 03:12:45< cjhopman> you get 45-60 fps when scrolling? i drop from 500 to 15 when scrolling
20090327 03:13:01< Crab_> cjhopman: yes, 45-60 fps
20090327 03:17:06< Crab_> cjhopman, that's in 1400x971x16, in a window, on 2GHz PentiumM CPU, xorg-server 2:1.4.2-9, nvidia driver (GeForce FX Go5200), Debian GNU/Linux 2.6.25
20090327 03:18:44< dfranke> r34174 dun broke mah build.
20090327 03:19:05< cjhopman> ah, that's right. i forgot that I'm on integrated graphics in linux
20090327 03:20:35-!- Sirp [n=me@wesnoth/developer/dave] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 03:28:00< CIA-30> dfranke * r34176 /trunk/src/gamestatus.cpp: r34174 by jhinrichs dun broke mah build. Fix it by reordering some function definitions.
20090327 03:29:48< Sapient> cya later, have fun.
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20090327 03:38:17< Crab_> night
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20090327 03:38:39< JW1> has anyone noticed that after updating your friends list in preferences it takes a long time to rejoin the lobby? (Windows)
20090327 03:38:43< JW1> (Vista)
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20090327 03:42:20< Soliton> fendrin: re FR 12776: try the enemy key in [side]. (note: make sure not to define team_name.)  if that doesn't do what you want or is buggy (very likely since no one uses it) then put some actual information into that FR...
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20090327 03:48:48< chains> Are assassins supposed to select melee as the default option vs melee openents like trolls or mermen?
20090327 03:49:45< Blueblaze> chains: In regards to the AI controlling the assassin on offense?
20090327 03:50:09< chains> no 
20090327 03:50:18< chains> in reguards to the default option selected for you as a player.
20090327 03:50:18< Blueblaze> In what situation then?
20090327 03:50:26< Blueblaze> oh
20090327 03:50:35< chains> for example, when you attack with an archer it selects bow by default 
20090327 03:50:57< Sirp> I think the reason is that the algorithm doesn't take special abilities into account.
20090327 03:51:19< Sirp> it's intentionally a very simple algorithm so that it can easily be understood by anyone.
20090327 03:51:22< chains> that doesn't account for why I would melee a merman though does it?
20090327 03:51:37< Sirp> I don't think it takes counter-attack ability into account either
20090327 03:51:46< Blueblaze> No it doesn't 
20090327 03:51:46< Sirp> it just does it by how much damage you will do
20090327 03:51:54< Blueblaze> Because assassins do more damage in range
20090327 03:51:59< Blueblaze> 3-3 ranged vs. 7-1 melee
20090327 03:52:09< chains> maybe its just because my assassin is strong?
20090327 03:52:17< chains> no hes not strong
20090327 03:52:21< chains> he should be selecting melee 
20090327 03:52:31< chains> because 7<9 
20090327 03:52:38< Blueblaze> you mean he should be selecting ranged :P
20090327 03:52:43< chains> er 
20090327 03:52:44< chains> YES :P 
20090327 03:52:47< chains> sorry I'm sleepy. 
20090327 03:52:55< chains> I'll check again maybe It was my misclicking 
20090327 03:53:24< chains> must have been a time of day thing. 
20090327 03:53:50< Blueblaze> Possibly, since I don't think a 25% bonus on 3 damage won't change
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20090327 03:54:41< chains> maybe i just misclicked 
20090327 03:54:54< Sirp> for me it selects the ranged weapon by default...
20090327 03:55:01< chains> me too 
20090327 03:55:07< chains> I must have clicked it or something 
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20090327 03:55:35< Blueblaze> Ehh, same with me Sirp
20090327 03:55:48< Soliton> it does either at times.
20090327 03:55:59< Soliton> looks like a bug.
20090327 03:56:14< chains> I could have sworn it selected melee when it wasn't supposed to though. 
20090327 03:56:25< chains> I will watch more carefully 
20090327 03:56:28< chains> and try to take a screen shot 
20090327 03:56:38< Blueblaze> Soliton: Can the attack's weight just be modified to always pick ranged?
20090327 03:56:54< Soliton> probably.
20090327 03:57:26< Blueblaze> Or will that have a negative impact on the AI possibly?
20090327 03:57:52< Soliton> the current behaviour doesn't make sense though and should be fixed regardless of WML workarounds.
20090327 03:59:12< chains> meleed a ghoul with my shaman yesterday, but i think that only happens with Strong shaman
20090327 04:00:48< Soliton> yeah, that's fine though could maybe be adjusted with an attack_weight.
20090327 04:02:20< Blueblaze> That'd be a good way to adjust units with high dependence on specials since the attack selection is very simplistic
20090327 04:02:41< Soliton> well, it isn't that simplistic.
20090327 04:03:28< Blueblaze> Well, doesn't it just pick highest damage it can deal?
20090327 04:03:55< Soliton> no, it takes ctk and ctd into account as well.
20090327 04:04:56< Blueblaze> So just damage, ctk, and ctd? If that's the case, then it still has very little impact on units with high percentage of health
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20090327 04:05:54< Soliton> ctk means the HP of the opponent is important.
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20090327 04:06:37< Soliton> but sure weight adjustment should be fine.
20090327 04:07:10< [Relic]> Hello :)
20090327 04:07:15< chains> There is a simplier forumla than ctk 
20090327 04:07:23< chains> My damage - your damage = best attack to choose :P 
20090327 04:07:35< chains> the max between the two attack types 
20090327 04:08:26< chains> sure every once in a while a fighter will use a blade instead of a hammer, but that isn't as game ending as using a shaman's melee on a grunt. 
20090327 04:08:37< chains> er a dwarf fighter I mean.
20090327 04:08:45< Blueblaze> Actually, that type of formula could cause serious issues with finishing off units
20090327 04:09:31< Blueblaze> Because let's say a unit has a high attack with low strikes, and a low attack with high strikes (but total damage is less than high attack with low strikes) then if it is attacking a unit with low hps, it will choose the attack with the high damage/low strikes
20090327 04:09:36< Blueblaze> Which can be a very game changing move
20090327 04:10:38< Blueblaze> We don't want the AI to pass up a 90% ctk attack for a 60% ctk just because it has a better chance to inflict more damage than receive
20090327 04:13:07< Soliton> it also completely ignores things like slow.
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20090327 04:15:54< chains> Yes blue blaze you do ;) 
20090327 04:16:28< chains> its more important for players selections than for AI 
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20090327 04:18:04< chains> if the AI passes on a 20 increase on a CTK no one will notice. 
20090327 04:18:08< Soliton> it's more important to suggest players a bad attack than for the AI to make good choices?
20090327 04:18:17< chains> if the Default weapon selector ruins someone's game by killing one of their units
20090327 04:18:30< chains> the player will throw the game down in a screaming fit. 
20090327 04:19:19< chains> Its more important to select the correct attack for players than to worry about making the already terrible AI unnoticeably(sp?) worse.
20090327 04:19:53< Soliton> both are the same thing.
20090327 04:20:35< chains> You'll work it out in the end, wesnoth has bigger problems right now I'm sure. 
20090327 04:23:45< Blueblaze> chains: Maybe I could agree with you there if I knew that the majority of players let the game picked their attacks for them, but I don't think that many people rely completely on Wesnoth to pick the attack for them
20090327 04:23:52< Blueblaze> anyway, goodnight
20090327 04:24:23< chains> Good night Blueblaze ;) 
20090327 04:25:07< chains> Its not about what the majority of players select, however, since the AI selects the correct attack 95%+ I'd argue that players use the AI's choice at least 95% of the time.... but thats something I'd love some hard numbers on from multiplayer stats
20090327 04:25:29< chains> I bet its more like 98% of the time, and I'd love to test it and find out just for fun. 
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20090327 04:27:55< chains> ok 
20090327 04:28:06< Soliton> it's pretty irrelevant how many players use the same choice as the AI when you're arguing that people blindly use the default choice. you're not going to get any statistics on that.
20090327 04:28:07< chains> the assassin Certainly selected melee over range
20090327 04:28:23< chains> melee does 7 damage range 9 
20090327 04:28:26< chains> yet its taking melee 
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20090327 07:23:03< KingofCamelot> Anyone around who knows about building with VC9 on Windows?
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20090327 07:34:44< viggy_prabhu> hi everybody
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20090327 08:05:19< noy> hello viggy_prabhu 
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20090327 08:07:29-!- mordante [i=57d7c91a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f7561fbc5ce91d17] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 08:07:43< mordante> hi
20090327 08:08:05< mordante> ilor I might mentor the MP lobby thing since it also involves a lot of the gui
20090327 08:08:24< mordante> but we haven't determined yet who mentors what
20090327 08:08:58< noy> mordante: I'd like to have a strong hand in that actually
20090327 08:09:42< mordante> noy in the looks of course 
20090327 08:10:19< noy> well obviously...  also in its behavior
20090327 08:10:43< mordante> but yes, but the mentor needs to be able to help to explain how to implement it
20090327 08:11:36< mordante> and if no student does that project I'll do it at some point at which I start to ask the MP devs as well ;-)
20090327 08:12:31< noy> Can't ask me to do it. 
20090327 08:13:23< dfranke> I have a feature request wrt to the MP lobby.
20090327 08:13:36< noy> and whats that dfranke ?
20090327 08:13:51< dfranke> I'd like a better way to keep track of fools.  The ignore list doesn't really do what I want.
20090327 08:13:51< mordante> but the first task for the student will be to investigate with the MP community what features are wanted and what other changes etc
20090327 08:14:22< noy> Id say not the mp community
20090327 08:14:23< noy> but the devs
20090327 08:14:23< dfranke> I want to be alerted before I join a game that contains someone else in my fool file.
20090327 08:14:37< dfranke> and if I'm hosting the game, be alerted if anyone is in anyone else's file.
20090327 08:14:48< noy> that I wouldn't support
20090327 08:15:07< mordante> noy I'd like feedback out the community and agreement with the devs
20090327 08:16:21< noy> mordante: which people in the community? is he going to make a forum thread?
20090327 08:16:37< silene> dfranke: the first one is a good idea; the second is not imo (for a lot of reasons, e.g. privacy)
20090327 08:16:55< dfranke> silene: fair enough, that part isn't really needed
20090327 08:16:57< noy> silene: 
20090327 08:17:00< noy> I agree
20090327 08:17:34< mordante> no sure yet noy
20090327 08:17:36< dfranke> but I never want to ignore people unless they're spamming me via whisper.
20090327 08:17:49< mordante> but I'd also like to go through the FR's at bugs.wesnoth.org
20090327 08:17:49< dfranke> I want to be alerted to them.
20090327 08:18:38< noy> mordante: its a waste of time to go to the community, where he's probably going to get a bunch of bad ideas, and a few decent ones, which if had just asked the developers first probably would have saved a lot of time and effort
20090327 08:18:53< noy> (he or she)
20090327 08:19:23< mordante> ok noted, what would be the best way to ask the MP-devs?
20090327 08:19:55< noy> We've already discussed the mp lobby design for ages, the level of discussion goes way way beyond what most casual mp players can comprehend
20090327 08:20:44< noy> At last we were talking about message filters vs channels, 
20090327 08:20:51< noy> and their relative benefits. 
20090327 08:21:41< mordante> we also talked about that part with dave at the FOSDEM 2008
20090327 08:22:46< noy> We had a few discussions after this. 
20090327 08:23:20< noy> but yeah
20090327 08:23:28< mordante> is it already written out somewhere?
20090327 08:23:35< noy> hmmm
20090327 08:25:02< noy> it might be in the logs, if they reach back that far
20090327 08:25:46< mordante> which logs wesnoth-dev or wesnoth-mp?
20090327 08:25:50< noy> dev
20090327 08:25:59< noy> maybe not though
20090327 08:26:32< noy> Personally at the time I was very much against rooms or channels.
20090327 08:27:04< noy> which was why I suggested filters for the main chat. 
20090327 08:32:04< noy> I'd say that I've somewhat tempered my view since then, I'm still not entirely convinced its a critical issue. The number of players on the server has remained somewhat constant. 
20090327 08:32:24< noy> (people playing, not lobby joins)
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20090327 08:34:42< mordante> well Sirp hoped the number of people on the server would increase...
20090327 08:34:48< mordante> but I'm off again
20090327 08:35:00< noy> mordante
20090327 08:35:05< mordante> yes
20090327 08:35:24< noy> there has been an increase in short term joins (under 5 minutes), but not long term joins
20090327 08:35:39< noy> and I think this is a function of the type of game product we put out
20090327 08:35:47< noy> (its never going to be that popular)
20090327 08:35:53< noy> anyway I'm off too
20090327 08:36:10< mordante> or do the 5 minute joiners think the UI is bad and leave because of that?
20090327 08:36:18< noy> its pretty constant
20090327 08:36:24< noy> so I don't think so. 
20090327 08:36:35< noy> maybe its someone looking for a game, or who is on. 
20090327 08:36:52< dfranke> I think that as the game gets more publicity, the median attention span of the people who just learned about it tends to drop.
20090327 08:37:06< noy> maybe
20090327 08:37:46< noy> but its a turn based strategy; it tends to attract more cerebral minded people
20090327 08:37:47< mordante> but we'll need to discuss it later, got to go now
20090327 08:37:58< dfranke> it's just the flip side of sophisticated early adopters.
20090327 08:38:04< mordante> or leave something in the logs
20090327 08:38:07< noy> I'd say we've been pretty constant with the moderation 
20090327 08:38:24< noy> or the number of problems we deal with
20090327 08:38:24< mordante> I'll be back tonight (European time)
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20090327 08:38:31< noy> I'm going to bed 
20090327 08:38:49< noy> night
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20090327 09:30:02< viggy_prabhu> hi everybody
20090327 09:30:29< viggy_prabhu> i just installed battle of wesnoth on my computer running opensuse11.1
20090327 09:30:37-!- KoC [n=davidsan@ip98-182-16-78.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 09:31:11< viggy_prabhu> when i started the game, the video screen is exceeding the size of my monitor and i am not able to see the menu list at all
20090327 09:31:12-!- zookeeper [n=l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 09:31:54< viggy_prabhu> i think it is some problem with resolution but then how do i change it without being able to see the menu
20090327 09:33:00< viggy_prabhu> here is the console output that was generated http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m2fafdf1e
20090327 09:42:50< ilor> viggy_prabhu: can't you resize the game window like any other?
20090327 09:44:14< viggy_prabhu> ilor: no, even when i minimize the screen is just the quarter of the actual screen
20090327 09:44:42< ilor> but resize. grab an edge of the window and drag
20090327 09:44:56< ilor> what screen have you got?
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20090327 09:47:58< viggy_prabhu> ilor: can u suggest me any site where i can upload the pic of the print screen result of the game 
20090327 09:48:13< viggy_prabhu> ilor: it will give u a good idea about my problem
20090327 09:48:27< ilor> imagebin
20090327 09:48:45< viggy_prabhu> ilor: ok thanks, just a min
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20090327 09:53:16< fendrin> Soliton: ping
20090327 09:53:34-!- euschn [n=chatzill@tmp9.logic.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 09:53:43< euschn> good morning
20090327 09:54:27< viggy_prabhu> ilor: http://imagebin.ca/view/SeBLWhH.html
20090327 09:55:52< fendrin> viggy_prabhu: you can start wesnoth with a given resolution from the commandline. wesnoth -r 1024x768 for example
20090327 09:56:14< ilor> viggy_prabhu: you can also make the window not-maximized and then shink it
20090327 09:56:42< ilor> *shrink
20090327 09:56:46< fendrin> If your resolution is below 1024 use wesnoth --smallgui
20090327 09:58:07< ilor> I thought 800*600 fullscreen was enough to run normal gui
20090327 09:58:08< zookeeper> "Creating a campaign that takes place during WW2 should evoke a yell of horror among the German users of this forum!"
20090327 09:58:16< zookeeper> i'm gonna split both of SireHenri's posts to offtopic
20090327 09:59:48< zookeeper> unless our german mods and devs want to do it instead ;)
20090327 09:59:49< fendrin> zookeeper: why would a ww2 campaign evoke yell of horror among germans?
20090327 10:00:01< zookeeper> fendrin, http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=347594#p347594 ?
20090327 10:00:10< zookeeper> it's bad karma or something, i guess.
20090327 10:01:18< fendrin> I like ww2 games.
20090327 10:01:50< viggy_prabhu> ilor: are u were talking about this, http://imagebin.ca/view/xM_ALc.html
20090327 10:02:15< zookeeper> fendrin, then surely you're a bad german
20090327 10:02:26< fendrin> indeed
20090327 10:03:16< fendrin> viggy_prabhu: did you try the --smallgui commandline option?
20090327 10:03:42< viggy_prabhu> fendrin: i tried the --smallgui option, but i am getting it as an unknown option
20090327 10:04:13< fendrin> ilor: on my eee pc (1024x600) the --smallgui is needed.
20090327 10:04:23< fendrin> viggy_prabhu: which version are you playing with?
20090327 10:04:33< viggy_prabhu> i had installed battle for wesnoth through one click install in opensuse11.1
20090327 10:04:39< viggy_prabhu> fendrin: version 1.4
20090327 10:05:14< fendrin> viggy_prabhu: that version is outdated, could you install version 1.6 and try the --smallgui with it?
20090327 10:05:46< viggy_prabhu> i just installed battle for wesnoth by one click install, thought it gives me the latest version
20090327 10:06:48< fendrin> maybe suse isn't that fast this time.
20090327 10:07:34< viggy_prabhu> fendrin: so should i uninstall this version and try to build through source now?
20090327 10:08:32< fendrin> viggy_prabhu: Yes, It looks like it. I wasn't able to find a rpm package for wesnoth 1.6 that fits into suse.
20090327 10:08:46< viggy_prabhu> fendrin: couldnt find any battle for wesnoth rpm's for opensuse11.1?
20090327 10:09:01< viggy_prabhu> fendrin: ya same here. ok will do it.
20090327 10:09:15< viggy_prabhu> fendrin and ilor: thanks
20090327 10:09:27< fendrin> viggy_prabhu: What is your screen resolution?
20090327 10:11:25< zookeeper> fendrin, how common is that kind of attitude in germany nowadays, that even a WW2 game where you get to play germany is something evil?
20090327 10:12:56< zookeeper> i once read a long thread on some civ4 forum i think where someone had made a mod which allowed you to have hitler as a leader, and there seemed to be people who thought it was...well, completely evil and hideously dangerous for such a thing to exist
20090327 10:13:00< fendrin> zookeeper: that depends on what jobs you have to do. Must people doesn't mind wolfenstein: enemy territory because it's quite abstract.
20090327 10:13:26< viggy_prabhu> fendrin: 800*600(svga)
20090327 10:13:27-!- Rh0nda is now known as Rhonda
20090327 10:13:44< zookeeper> yeah, i wouldn't expect people to mind E.T. much since you play as "axis" and there's no nazi insignia or anything in there
20090327 10:14:19< zookeeper> and axis is defending in almost every map ;)
20090327 10:14:26< fendrin> zookeeper: You get pretty for to the point. Having Hitler as a leader turned out wrong once, it's a bad sign in a game anyway.
20090327 10:15:19< fendrin> *close
20090327 10:15:27-!- YogiHH [i=c3f5f398@wesnoth/developer/yogihh] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 10:15:46< YogiHH> hello everyone
20090327 10:16:06< zookeeper> but it pretty much makes it impossible to have any historical accuracy in a WW2 game
20090327 10:16:22< ilor> fendrin: civ4 has stalin as a leader in the official game
20090327 10:16:47< zookeeper> and yeah, if you get stalin and no one complains...
20090327 10:18:53< euschn> hi  YogiHH
20090327 10:19:08< YogiHH> hey :-)
20090327 10:19:38< zookeeper> well, it's just so strange to me, especially when people get riled up about a _game_. i could understand it if it was a concentration camp simulator, but when it comes to reasonably abstract strategy games...
20090327 10:19:52< dfranke> can anyone using Windows reproduce https://gna.org/bugs/?13267 ?
20090327 10:20:05< fendrin> It's difficult to get the balance between not trivializing the history and not creating a game that maks genozid make fun.
20090327 10:20:59< ilor> dfranke: what campaign is that?
20090327 10:21:09< zookeeper> SotBE
20090327 10:21:36< zookeeper> i'll try, but i doubt it reproduces..
20090327 10:21:40< fendrin> zookeeper: But I wouldn't be so fast with complaining. Let's the the finished campaign, maybe the author gets it right.
20090327 10:21:48< fendrin> s/the/see
20090327 10:24:19< YogiHH> I did some subtle changes to the savegame code yesterday. However i did a couple of saves (including replay and start-of-scenario at the end of a campaign scenario) without problems
20090327 10:25:16< YogiHH> Oh, and it seems to be 1.6, i only changed trunk
20090327 10:30:35< euschn> YogiHH: does this affect the tasks/questions you put on the wiki?
20090327 10:30:47< euschn> im currently looking at savegames of 1.6 stable
20090327 10:32:15< zookeeper> dfranke, worked just fine for me
20090327 10:33:46< YogiHH> euschn: no, that shouldn't have any impact on those, although for solving the tasks you should take trunk as a basis
20090327 10:33:50< dfranke> alright, I'll mark it WFM and have him try again with a fresh user directory.
20090327 10:34:22< euschn> ok, will do
20090327 10:35:54< dfranke> zookeeper: what's the path to the wesnoth user directory on Windows?
20090327 10:37:31< dfranke> nm, found it
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20090327 10:44:38< Ivanovic> moin
20090327 10:46:05< YogiHH> moin Ivanovic
20090327 10:46:17< fendrin> zookeeper: did esr ask you about reviewing DM for mainline?
20090327 10:47:20< fendrin> zookeeper: I would like to bring it in very soon. The short release cycle of 6 months makes it hard to finish polishing before the stringfreeze.
20090327 10:47:21< zookeeper> fendrin, no, but he doesn't need to since i read about it in the logs ;)
20090327 10:49:18< fendrin> zookeeper: do you maintain aoi?
20090327 10:49:23< zookeeper> i'll get it from umc-dev/trunk/ and try to play through it
20090327 10:49:30< zookeeper> not really, why?
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20090327 10:50:13< fendrin> There is much talking from dead leaders in there. The last breath event isn't used in that campaign.
20090327 10:50:50-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.246.190] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 10:53:11< zookeeper> well, i can fix those
20090327 10:56:15-!- Rizokuri [n=kikoolol@109.88.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 10:56:16< Rizokuri> hi
20090327 10:58:27< YogiHH> hi Rizokuri
20090327 10:58:29< CIA-30> zookeeper * r34177 /trunk/data/campaigns/An_Orcish_Incursion/scenarios/ (4 files): Used last breath events for dying enemy leader speech.
20090327 11:10:47-!- orian_ [n=orian@abto229.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 11:11:27< orian_> hi all
20090327 11:13:08< YogiHH> hi orian_
20090327 11:15:20< Ivanovic> fendrin: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24662&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
20090327 11:18:41< YogiHH> he's back O-O *cough*
20090327 11:21:07 * YogiHH hopes someone blocked him from the strategies forum...
20090327 11:22:37< orian_> which version of source should I checkout if I would like to write some patch? the http://svn.gna.org/svn/wesnoth/trunk is uncompilable
20090327 11:23:03< Ivanovic> orian_: depends on what the patch is for
20090327 11:23:03< fendrin> Ivanovic: do you understand what higher game talks about?
20090327 11:23:12< Ivanovic> if it is for a bugfix: branches/1.6
20090327 11:23:15< loonycyborg> orian_: trunk compiles for me.
20090327 11:23:22< Ivanovic> if it is for a new feature: trunk
20090327 11:23:43< YogiHH> orian_: what operating system are you on?
20090327 11:23:45< Ivanovic> fendrin: no
20090327 11:23:59< orian_> linux (slackware 12.2)
20090327 11:23:59< Ivanovic> that is why i am glad that i am not responsible for this campaign
20090327 11:24:00< Ivanovic> ;)
20090327 11:24:10< Ivanovic> which build system?
20090327 11:24:14< orian_> cmake
20090327 11:24:29< loonycyborg> Try scons :P
20090327 11:24:41< Ivanovic> what is the error / where does it occur?
20090327 11:24:47< orian_> moment:)
20090327 11:26:07< Ivanovic> lovely, looks like morandte broke the recipe...
20090327 11:26:07< YogiHH> Ivanovic, fendrin: He talks about the scenario where Kalenz helps the elves get rid of a whole bunch of orcs. Before that you can decide to give the dwarves you learned to know some money to help you. If you do that, they appear somewhere at the start but not on turn 1.
20090327 11:27:42< fendrin> YogiHH: He misses them at scenario start? Maybe some talk is missing.
20090327 11:28:57< YogiHH> I am not sure if the scenario start tells you that they will appear later on. It's been a while since i played that campaign (and i am too lazy to look it up, now ;-)
20090327 11:29:39< fendrin> YogiHH: I know every single line of the campaign, rewrote it some month ago. I just don't understand the poster.
20090327 11:29:53< loonycyborg> orian_: Does slackware have development and runtime packages like debian/ubuntu?
20090327 11:30:28< YogiHH> fendrin: sorry, i won't be of much help, then :(
20090327 11:31:05< fendrin> YogiHH: I must improve my english with a course on university.
20090327 11:31:29< orian_> loonycyborg: I'm not sure, but if you mind libraries and headers, then yes, i installed everything yesterday
20090327 11:32:06< loonycyborg> People often end up without lua headers lately :P
20090327 11:32:33< orian_> loonycyborg: yes, because there was not writen in requirements :P
20090327 11:32:35< YogiHH> fendrin: in my himble opinion, talking here every day will help you improve your english more than a university course. But that's just me
20090327 11:32:43< YogiHH> *humble*
20090327 11:33:18< loonycyborg> lua is listed in INSTALL
20090327 11:34:43< orian_> loonycyborg: if you compiling, you probably will look for requirements in /wiki/CompilingWesnoth#Installing ;)
20090327 11:35:34< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34178 /trunk/po/CMakeLists.txt: remove manual and manpages from the list of packages for the moment, the update-po4a target makes some problems...
20090327 11:36:02< orian_> Ivanovic: error throw by compilation: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m53e00c64
20090327 11:36:03< loonycyborg> orian_: lua is listed on that page too now.
20090327 11:36:19< orian_> loonycyborg: yes, because I added it yestarday :)
20090327 11:37:03< loonycyborg> Thanks! :)
20090327 11:37:53< loonycyborg> orian_: It looks like silly cmake's caching stuff again.
20090327 11:38:13< loonycyborg> It should've generated that config.h file.
20090327 11:38:25< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: the file is generated
20090327 11:38:30< Ivanovic> get the error now, too
20090327 11:38:42< Ivanovic> currently i am a little puzzled since the paths are in the include
20090327 11:38:54< orian_> hm but is this config.h the config.hpp?
20090327 11:39:01< loonycyborg> No.
20090327 11:39:05< orian_> aha:)
20090327 11:39:08< Ivanovic> no, it is a little different
20090327 11:39:19< orian_> what is the difference?
20090327 11:39:47< Ivanovic> this one is for the platform check stuff
20090327 11:39:59< loonycyborg> They have different extensions :P
20090327 11:40:14< orian_> I was thinking that *.h are for class declarations :)
20090327 11:41:46< loonycyborg> Some C++ projects use .h for headers, some use .hpp
20090327 11:43:08< Smar> I’ve been thinking of using .smarc and .smarh
20090327 11:47:08< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34179 /trunk/src/CMakeLists.txt: fix the cmake recipe...
20090327 11:47:35< Ivanovic> orian_: please retry, should work now
20090327 11:47:36< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34180 /branches/1.6/src/CMakeLists.txt: fix the cmake recipe (generated config.h not found)
20090327 11:48:56< CIA-30> dfranke * r34181 /branches/1.6/src/unit_id.cpp: Add an explicit cast to shut up warnings from g++ 3.4, addressing bug #13269
20090327 11:50:50< Ivanovic> time for a shower, maybe i wake up then...
20090327 11:58:45< orian_> Ivanovic: thx:) it's ok:)
20090327 12:00:10< loonycyborg> orian_: I'd like to also know whether scons works on slackware.
20090327 12:04:04< YogiHH> off for lunch
20090327 12:04:37-!- Netsplit verne.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: cjhopman, corn, yann, crimson_penguin, AI0867
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20090327 12:09:16< orian_> loonycyborg: ok, I can try :)
20090327 12:11:51< orian_> loonycyborg: have scons "out of tree"
20090327 12:11:56< orian_> ?
20090327 12:12:34< loonycyborg> It places most of its stuff, including object files in build/ by default.
20090327 12:13:18< orian_> ok :)
20090327 12:13:34< loonycyborg> So it's already "out of tree" without requiring you to bother with making that dir :)
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20090327 12:16:55< orian_> loonycyborg: scons works:)
20090327 12:17:08< loonycyborg> Great :)
20090327 12:17:39< orian_> but where it puts binaries?
20090327 12:17:51< loonycyborg> In working copy root.
20090327 12:19:23< orian_> hm so something is wrong I think, it only created wesnothd, there's no wesnoth,
20090327 12:19:30< orian_> cmake create them both
20090327 12:20:10< loonycyborg> Could you paste build output and build/config.log somewhere?
20090327 12:20:12< ilor> loonycyborg: this seems to happen to people often, I guess scons should abort when prereqs for one of the targets aren't found
20090327 12:20:40< ilor> right now it starts building _something_ (ie wesnothd) and that makes people think it works
20090327 12:21:47< loonycyborg> ilor: I think that it should abort only if building of that target is requested.
20090327 12:23:03< ilor> I disagree given that "I used scons but only got this lousy wesnothd" tend to happen somewhat often for people
20090327 12:23:42< loonycyborg> Though we could treat default targets as a request..
20090327 12:23:46< ilor> the error message saying there are dependencies missing gets lost in the compile messages and the user doesn't know what's wrong
20090327 12:23:47< orian_> loonycyborg: here http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m489b3f6a I paste my build/config.log
20090327 12:25:01< loonycyborg> orian_: It looks like it fails to find lua with pkg-config.
20090327 12:25:37< loonycyborg> What packages for lua are you using?
20090327 12:26:16< orian_> loonycyborg: i've downloaded the latest stable source
20090327 12:26:52< orian_> how scons is looking for lua?
20090327 12:27:13< loonycyborg> pkg-config --libs --cflags lua
20090327 12:27:19< loonycyborg> pkg-config --libs --cflags lua5.1
20090327 12:28:22< loonycyborg> Perhaps its .pc file is not in PKG_CONFIG_PATH?
20090327 12:29:45< orian_> it's possible, I will fix it ;)
20090327 12:30:30< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: finding lua seems to be a problem for scons, too
20090327 12:30:35< Ivanovic> at least atm
20090327 12:35:03< loonycyborg> Hm.. Lua's own package doesn't seem to provide .pc file.
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20090327 12:41:24< orian_> loonycyborg: ok, i deal it with this;) I found slackware package;)
20090327 12:41:31< orian_> with lua ;)
20090327 12:43:29< YogiHH> euschn: sorry, missed your messages before
20090327 12:43:58< YogiHH> euschn: both types of redundancy are important, actually
20090327 12:44:50< euschn> YogiHH: ok thanks for the clarification
20090327 12:45:00< YogiHH> euschn: [snapshot] and [replay_start] describe the same information, and therefore belong to the same C++ objects as well
20090327 12:45:37< YogiHH> euschn: It is just that [replay_start] describes that information at the start of the game and [snapshot] somewhere in the middle (or at the end)
20090327 12:46:12< euschn> yea thats what i meant: certain parts of [player] and [snapshot.side] share information too, but have different c++ objects
20090327 12:46:27< YogiHH> euschn: Because a replay does need less information, some things might be missing in [replay_start] in comparison to [snapshot]
20090327 12:46:56< YogiHH> euschn: [player] and [snapshot.side] is another type of redundancy
20090327 12:47:05< euschn> YogiHH: exactly
20090327 12:47:41< YogiHH> i think they can be combined (in the savegame config as well as C++ objects) but i haven't investigated deeper into that, yet
20090327 12:47:42< euschn> YogiHH: i had the same conclusion on replay information, but i guess that can be reduced even more?
20090327 12:48:04< euschn> ok thats what im going to have a look at next
20090327 12:48:58< YogiHH> euschn: i think the differentiation of [player] and [side] has historical roots, but that was before i joined the project
20090327 12:49:15< euschn> i see
20090327 12:49:49< YogiHH> euschn: "replay information" means [replay] or [replay_start]?
20090327 12:49:49< elias> loonycyborg: here pkg-config lua5.1 works but scons still doesn't find lua
20090327 12:50:11< Ivanovic> elias: use cmake, there it just works
20090327 12:50:12< Ivanovic> ;)
20090327 12:50:17< elias> :)
20090327 12:51:13< euschn> YogiHH: I meant replay_start: I shares a lot of info with snashot.side, and I think some of the data cannot be with WML events
20090327 12:51:53< YogiHH> euschn: that is quite possible, although i have become very careful about that ;-)
20090327 12:51:54< euschn> so that would be redundant - or should replays not access snapshot information at all?
20090327 12:52:22< YogiHH> euschn: that is correct, replays will never deal with [snapshot] only with [replay_start]
20090327 12:52:23< loonycyborg> elias: What's in config.log?
20090327 12:52:53< euschn> YogiHH: of course, I will make up a list with my thoughts about what might be redundant
20090327 12:53:05< YogiHH> euschn: what you can do, though, is put common information that is not changed in a central place, like root level for example
20090327 12:53:08< loonycyborg> Besides, pkg-config --libs --cflags lua5.1 should be used.
20090327 12:53:40< euschn> YogiHH: i see
20090327 12:54:07< elias> this looks relevant in config.log: http://paste.debian.net/31643/
20090327 12:54:17< elias> but scons writes this to stdout:
20090327 12:54:27< elias> Package lua was not found in the pkg-config search path.
20090327 12:54:36< loonycyborg> elias: Ignore those.
20090327 12:54:53< elias> ah, ok, so i guess it actually compiled with Lua already :)
20090327 12:55:06< loonycyborg> They actually don't indicate a failure.
20090327 12:55:17< loonycyborg> Yes.
20090327 12:55:39< euschn> concerning lua build problems: I get the "lua missing" error aswell, but everything builds fine
20090327 12:56:31< loonycyborg> Everyone who uses debian based distros will get one bogus error message from pkg-config.
20090327 12:56:35< elias> yeah, the error spans 4 lines with instructions what to do... so hard to miss :P
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20090327 13:04:16< YogiHH> euschn: McShark posted the lua files on the forum if you need them http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18877&p=347117#p347117
20090327 13:04:42< euschn> YogiHH: great, thanks
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20090327 13:21:17< Velory> Hi everyone
20090327 13:22:33< Shadow_Master> ho
20090327 13:24:02-!- Crab_ [n=crab_@c.218.175.a530.sta.adsl.cyfra.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 13:24:09< Crab_> hi
20090327 13:26:27< CIA-30> loonycyborg * r34182 /trunk/scons/lua.py: Added support for finding lua without pkg-config.
20090327 13:26:33< CIA-30> loonycyborg * r34183 /trunk/scons/pkgconfig.py: Silence pkg-config errors.
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20090327 13:36:19< Ivanovic> for all Summer of Code students: please do *not* forget to also submit your application to google
20090327 13:36:36< Ivanovic> we can only take people, that have stuff submitted in the google system
20090327 13:36:40< orian_> Ivanovic: of course:)
20090327 13:36:58< Ivanovic> (you can just write a very short version in the google stuff page and then link to your page in the wiki
20090327 13:37:06< Ivanovic> or copy&paste over what you have in the wiki)
20090327 13:37:21< euschn> Ivanovic: so its just a formality, the wiki page is what counts?
20090327 13:38:01< Ivanovic> euschn: what counts is our impression of you
20090327 13:38:07-!- YogiHH [i=c3f5f398@wesnoth/developer/yogihh] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 13:38:21< Ivanovic> that is if we think you are the best for the task, your proposal is well thought and you are able to implement it
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20090327 13:38:40< euschn> i see
20090327 13:39:00< orian_> Ivanovic: I'd like to discuss with someone WML schema, who I should talk ;>
20090327 13:39:16< Ivanovic> in general we are the ones deciding one who to take, google only decides how many we get overall (will probably be something between 2 (the min google hands out) and 4 (the max we can probably manage))
20090327 13:39:35< Ivanovic> orian_: you should write about it in here when some people are around and wait for a reply
20090327 13:39:54< euschn> Ivanovic: thanks for the clarification
20090327 13:39:56< Ivanovic> due to the logs many people might read it later on and answer though they were not around when you initially said stuff
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20090327 13:41:18< Ivanovic> the main reason for me posting this reminder is that there are many proposals linked in the wiki and not as many submitted so far
20090327 13:41:36< Ivanovic> and i would like to make sure that such a formal problem does not stop a good student with a well done proposal
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20090327 13:52:27< Ivanovic> YogiHH: you should set the mentor chan as autojoin, too
20090327 13:54:05< YogiHH> Ivanovic: hmm, yeah, this is a web chat application i am using at one of my customers. It has an autojoin function but it doesn't seem to work correct :/
20090327 13:54:10< euschn> Ivanovic: I have not yet done the google submission because the wiki suggest you should do it last, after submitting patches and finishing the wiki page
20090327 13:54:15< Ivanovic> YogiHH: ah, okay
20090327 13:54:48< Ivanovic> euschn: if you submit "early" you should at least update after some changes to the wiki page
20090327 13:55:04< Ivanovic> but if you commit now, your application won't be lost
20090327 13:55:43< euschn> Ivanovic: good point, thanks. I was not aware that you could update the application after submitting
20090327 13:56:00< Ivanovic> i think until the deadline you can always update it
20090327 13:56:04< euschn> ok
20090327 13:56:09< Ivanovic> after the deadline you can only update it after a comment was posted
20090327 13:56:14< Ivanovic> (or something like this)
20090327 13:58:06< Ivanovic> orian_: i am currently looking at your application, would be nice to have the answers a little more verbose
20090327 13:58:36< Ivanovic> especially the "project" section needs *many* more details
20090327 13:59:01< Crab_> what is the desired scheme for ai parameters override ? is it "take global AI parameters (hardcoded into cpp at the moment), modify them with side AI parameters (data/multiplayer/factions/foo.cfg), modify them with scenario AI parameters for that side (those are inside the [ai] WML tag in scenario.foo"  ?
20090327 13:59:23< Ivanovic> Crab_: good question...
20090327 13:59:33< Ivanovic> i think in those regards we have no fixed plan as of yet
20090327 13:59:54< Ivanovic> that is: we will do what is first implemented, works *and* makes sense
20090327 13:59:55< Ivanovic> ;)
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20090327 14:02:10< YogiHH> Crab_: welcome to the wesnoth anarchy ;-)
20090327 14:02:28< Crab_> YogiHH: Yes, I am writing code for managing and hot-redeploying of AIs, and there is quite a mess in team.cpp regarding AI parameters ))
20090327 14:02:58 * YogiHH tells you a scecret: That's not the only mess...
20090327 14:03:20< Ivanovic> Crab_: this file is really hell
20090327 14:03:29< Crab_> YogiHH, I  started digging from ai.cpp, so I found that first :) 
20090327 14:03:30< Ivanovic> though there are areas worse...
20090327 14:03:46< Crab_> Ok, tell me, then, is team::write(config& cfg) supposed to serialize the entire team state into WML ? 
20090327 14:04:04 * YogiHH checks
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20090327 14:04:52< orian_> Ivanovic: I know, I will improve them:)
20090327 14:06:36< orian_> I am trying to look into current wml implementation :)
20090327 14:07:05< Ivanovic> hmm, for engine stuff in general sapient probably knows most
20090327 14:07:22< Ivanovic> though when it goes over into the area of saving and replaying things, it is YogiHHs domain
20090327 14:07:59< YogiHH> Crab_: I'd say yes, at least the entire state that needs to be persisted into a savegame
20090327 14:08:10< Crab_> thanks
20090327 14:09:04< YogiHH> Crab_: the main stuff is in info_.write() as you have probably seen already
20090327 14:09:27< Ivanovic> Crab_: regarding your proposal: it sounds really difficult to achive this in the given time, especially the block "April 21 - June 10" sounds really optimistic...
20090327 14:09:42< Ivanovic> after reading a little more of our code you might want to change the timetable a little
20090327 14:09:44< Ivanovic> ;)
20090327 14:09:59< Crab_> Ivanovic: have you read the section about my free time as well ?
20090327 14:10:25< Ivanovic> Crab_: yes, i have
20090327 14:10:37< Ivanovic> it is still really difficult since i know what a mess it currently is
20090327 14:10:59< Crab_> so, I will try to write a basic proof-of-concept implementation till the beginning of april
20090327 14:11:02< Ivanovic> ask ilor about his experiences and swearing with the editor when it comes down to finding out what functionality really was needed
20090327 14:12:09< Ivanovic> Crab_: and this part sounds really, hmm, not saying anything: "Improve the AI and make sure it is better that current AI. "
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20090327 14:12:33< YogiHH> Crab_: Have you ever programmed 48 hours a week for more than 4 weeks?
20090327 14:12:36< Crab_> Ivanovic: and, if it goes not so well, i'll update my plans in the wiki to be less ambitious. if it goes ok, I'll stay confident :)
20090327 14:12:40< Crab_> YogiHH: yes
20090327 14:12:47< boucman> hey all
20090327 14:12:50< Ivanovic> hi boucman
20090327 14:12:54< YogiHH> hi boucman
20090327 14:12:59< Crab_>  hi boucman
20090327 14:14:14< YogiHH> Crab_: i have done that as well and i know how exhausting it can become. I appreciate your devotion, but i'd rather try to plan on a 40 hour/week basis and have some buffer if things become difficult.
20090327 14:14:24< Crab_> Ivanovic: regarding 'better then current AI' - well, one of the reasons I'm writing the hot-deployable system for AIs is the ability to test the AIs easier.
20090327 14:15:09< Ivanovic> Crab_: okay, then don't forget to mention that this is also an important part
20090327 14:15:19< Ivanovic> since yeah, the current AI is not easily testable
20090327 14:15:47< orian_> bi boucman 
20090327 14:18:27< Crab_> YogiHH: ok, thanks for the hint. I a few days, I'll calculate 'how much time I've spent so far' and see how it turns out.
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20090327 14:19:14< Ivanovic> Crab_: you are in general really doing an excellent job already
20090327 14:19:44< Ivanovic> it would just be sad to see in the end (if we take you that is) that the project fails because it was too ambitions from the start
20090327 14:19:51< Crab_> Ivanovic: beware, i'll jump in with a "1000 line"-patch in a day or two :)
20090327 14:20:07< boucman> ouch
20090327 14:20:12< Ivanovic> so personally i would prefer it if you could restrain a little yourself and keep the time that would fee up for possible later additions
20090327 14:20:29< Crab_> Ivanovic: well, i intend to stay (devoting less time, of course) after the GSoC ends.
20090327 14:20:37 * Ivanovic congrats boucman to be the one reviewing it
20090327 14:20:38< Ivanovic> ^^
20090327 14:20:49< boucman> :)
20090327 14:21:20< Ivanovic> Crab_: you know, i would just like to see the level of frustration reduced a little
20090327 14:21:41< YogiHH> Crab_: Will that patch touch the functionality of the default AI?
20090327 14:21:52< Ivanovic> since it is really good to see "hey, i reached the target even in less time!"
20090327 14:22:51< Crab_> YogiHH: it is the AI manager. so, it will affect ai lookup code. no changes to functionality of underlying AIs.
20090327 14:23:30< Crab_> YogiHH, something like "ai_interface& ai_obj = ai_manager::instance().get_active_ai_for_team(player_number_ , ai_info ) ; ... ; ai_obj.play_turn();"
20090327 14:23:55< Crab_> Ivanovic: yes, I understand )
20090327 14:25:03< Crab_> YogiHH, plus, if I manage to clean up team.cpp's ai parameters mess with 'little-or-no-casualties", then the ai's wont have to change it ai parameter and ai memory lookup codes.
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20090327 14:26:19< YogiHH> Crab_: Sounds good. I am just asking because we had to spent weeks on cleaning up a carelessly broken default AI.
20090327 14:26:33< Ivanovic> oh yeah, this was really bad...
20090327 14:27:34< YogiHH> Crab_: If you clean up team.cpp with regard to ai params, can you keep me updated with short summaries of that? It might be affecting savegames as well.
20090327 14:28:13< YogiHH> Crab_: I don't need details, just an overview
20090327 14:28:14< Crab_> Ivanovic,YogiHH: I don't want to touch default AI in any way before I've got up some 'regression testing framework' up and going. because it is really easy to break one part by improving another.
20090327 14:28:28< Shadow_Master> that's happened in the past indeed
20090327 14:28:38< Ivanovic> yeah, this is another problematic aspect of the current ai
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20090327 14:29:00< Crab_> YogiHH: ok, I will tell you about it. it will (most probably) happen today.
20090327 14:29:24 * boucman thinks doing an AI framework+ acouple FAI library functions could be a GSOC project by itself
20090327 14:34:29< Crab_> boucman: "AI framework and FAI library" is a *lot* easier to do that the "make a good AI" project. Since the framework is just a engineering problem, and making the good AI is (partly) an art.
20090327 14:35:29< boucman> Crab_: indeed, we know that, we had "do a good AI" as a project for two people last year, and if we got some good code out of it, we didn't build a good AI
20090327 14:35:43< Ivanovic> boucman: exactly, this is why i think that the current proposal is probably too "large scale"
20090327 14:35:59< boucman> so we are more cautious this year, and warned multiple time that we would be very doubtful with any proposal that was solely about improving the AI
20090327 14:36:18< boucman> improving the AI framework and/or some jeys areas is realistic
20090327 14:36:23< boucman> doing a better AI is not
20090327 14:37:23< Ivanovic> sure, the "doing a better AI"-part can always be done later on, too
20090327 14:37:45< Ivanovic> (that is we really hope that our SoC students stay with us after they are completely paid)
20090327 14:39:01< Crab_> yes, I can refocus my proposal on "improving the AI framework and related areas". It is a 'a lot easier' project compared to the former. So, I estimate that this project can be completed in the beginning of summer. so, after that, there will be still time to go for 'a better AI'.
20090327 14:39:21< boucman> Crab_: that would be much better, yes
20090327 14:39:49< Crab_> boucman: ok, I do that. But I still intend to go 'for a better AI' after that first part is finished )
20090327 14:40:01< boucman> heh :)
20090327 14:40:09< boucman> fair enough
20090327 14:40:16< Ivanovic> Crab_: you are free to add a "once stuff is done (and even if this is after summer of code): improve the AI
20090327 14:41:10< Velory> boucman:hi
20090327 14:41:16< boucman> hey Velory
20090327 14:41:28< boucman> Velory: reviewing your patch is on my todo list for today
20090327 14:41:36< Crab_> Ivanovic: its already there :)
20090327 14:41:40< Velory> boucman: btw i've implemented new function
20090327 14:41:47< Ivanovic> Crab_: :)
20090327 14:41:48< Velory> boucman:named encapsulate
20090327 14:42:04< Velory> boucman:its take 2 lise as parameters
20090327 14:42:11< Velory> s/lise/list
20090327 14:42:39< Velory> boucman:and returning true if 2 list contains 1 list
20090327 14:43:01< Velory> boucman: with this function you can compare 2 list
20090327 14:43:02< boucman> you mean if list1 contains all elements of list 2 ?
20090327 14:43:10< Velory> boucman:yes
20090327 14:43:15< Velory> no no
20090327 14:43:20< Velory> for example
20090327 14:43:36< Velory> [15,30]    [40,15,30,25]
20090327 14:43:40< Velory> here is 2 list
20090327 14:43:53< Velory> when u write encapsulate[1*,2*]
20090327 14:43:56< Velory> returning true
20090327 14:44:02< Velory> if not returning flase
20090327 14:44:12< YogiHH> afk, short meeting
20090327 14:44:13< Velory> i've implemented because formula doesnt have loop structure
20090327 14:44:22< boucman> how about [30,15] and  [40,15,30,25] ?
20090327 14:44:29< Velory> same
20090327 14:44:36< Velory> returning true
20090327 14:44:45< Ivanovic> res|laptop: just had a look at your application and wiki page
20090327 14:44:54< boucman> so it it is the "contains" relationship of sets ?
20090327 14:44:54< Shadow_Master> wesbot: seen silene
20090327 14:44:54< wesbot> Shadow_Master: The person with the nick silene 5h 24m ago they left with the message: "Leaving."
20090327 14:45:03< Ivanovic> would be nice for us to have mentioned in the wiki page that the rest of info is in the google form
20090327 14:45:09< Velory> boucman: some kind of
20090327 14:45:10< Shadow_Master> silene: please do not forget to add stuff like the preload WML event to the changelog
20090327 14:45:15< res|laptop> Ivanovic: and?
20090327 14:45:18< Shadow_Master> (assuming you didn't revert that commit)
20090327 14:45:26< Ivanovic> that is all comment i have so far
20090327 14:45:45< boucman> Velory: seems interesting, I don't have enough FAI perspective to juge how usefull it would be, but feel free to submit the code once you consider it ready
20090327 14:45:50< res|laptop> Ivanovic: okay
20090327 14:46:02< Velory> boucman:its usefull because sometimes
20090327 14:46:19< Velory> boucman:you can learn size of lists
20090327 14:46:33< Ivanovic> res|laptop: currently the project part in the google form and in the wiki somehow "differ"
20090327 14:46:33< Velory> but u cant compare like for(i=0;i < size;i++)
20090327 14:46:45< Velory> and u dont really now size its variable
20090327 14:47:03< Velory> so its requiring infinite if conditionals without a loop
20090327 14:47:08< Velory> and also
20090327 14:47:13< Ivanovic> that is, yeah, the wiki page is about your current patch(es) where the "real info" is in the google form
20090327 14:47:17< Ivanovic> which is a fine split
20090327 14:47:20< Velory> you may try to compare all abilities
20090327 14:47:33< Velory> and one unit can encapsulate other unit
20090327 14:48:36< Velory> for example ['healing','curing'] and ['healing','curing','hidden'] you can write encapsulate(find(my_units...),find(my_otherunit)) 
20090327 14:48:50< Velory> and you can learn true or false
20090327 14:48:53< boucman> Velory: wouldn't find(list1,'elt1',find(list2,'elt2',elt1=elt2)=undef) be equivlaent to your formual ?
20090327 14:48:54< Velory> also there is same in attacks
20090327 14:48:57< Ivanovic> it is only problematic if you only read ocer the wiki pages without the google form, then the wiki page seems to lack all info, so a simple sentence should solve this
20090327 14:48:58< CIA-30> loonycyborg * r34184 /trunk/scons/ (lua.py pkgconfig.py): 
20090327 14:48:58< CIA-30> Added some diagnostic output to lua and pkg-config checks.
20090327 14:48:58< CIA-30> (written to build/config.log)
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20090327 14:49:50< Velory> u may not now all abilities of one unit
20090327 14:50:03< boucman> Velory: I agree it's something "basic enough" to deserve coding in c++, but I think my implementation would work...
20090327 14:51:29< Velory> boucman: i think it might not work some conditions because your formula is so static
20090327 14:51:44< boucman> Velory: not sure what you mean...
20090327 14:53:15< res|laptop> Ivanovic: the google form is more recent. I should probably copy some stuff back. but for information that is intended for mentors/admins noting that there's an application now is a good idea, thanks.
20090327 14:53:27< Velory> find(list1,'elt1',find(list2,'elt2',elt1=elt2)=undef) for example what if u want to compare 4 elements of list1 to list 2
20090327 14:53:42< Velory> or if u don know how many element in list 1 that u want to compare
20090327 14:54:00< Ivanovic> res|laptop: in general there is no need to have exactly the same stuff at two places, so it is fine not to copy things around
20090327 14:54:06< Velory> u write also =
20090327 14:54:13< Velory> but this is not just equal
20090327 14:54:13< boucman> Velory: I compare all of list1 to all of list2
20090327 14:54:17< Velory> but
20090327 14:54:22< Velory> this is not looking just equal
20090327 14:54:31< Velory> this is looking for encapsulating
20090327 14:54:37< Velory> so if u compare all of list 1 and list 2
20090327 14:54:47< Velory> if list 2 is bigger than list 1 it is not return true
20090327 14:54:58< boucman> nope, my test would work
20090327 14:55:31< Velory> hmm
20090327 14:55:40< boucman> look at it that way
20090327 14:56:02< boucman> find(list2,'elt2',elt1=elt2) returns elt1 if elt1 is in list2 or undef if not
20090327 14:56:29< boucman> find(list2,'elt2',elt1=elt2)=undef returns true if elt1 is not in list2
20090327 14:56:42< Velory> what is 'elt1' and 'elt2' are they elements like 'curing' or variables
20090327 14:56:55< boucman> find(list1,'elt1',find(list2,'elt2',elt1=elt2)=undef) will return the first elt of list1 which is not in list2 or undef if list1 is contained in list2
20090327 14:57:33< boucman> Velory: they are a member of list1/list2 so yes, they would be typically a memeber of unit.abilities like 'curing'
20090327 14:57:48< res|laptop> Ivanovic: well I was thinking about the "Next Steps"; but the wiki page basically contains the same info as the proposal, just in a more sketchy form, but I think I'll leave that as is.
20090327 14:58:02-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090327 14:58:07< Ivanovic> ah, okay
20090327 14:58:26< boucman> res|laptop: if the proposal in the google page is reduced to "refer to <wiki URL>" and nothing else, that's perfectly fine with us
20090327 14:59:01< res|laptop> so many options ;p
20090327 14:59:08< boucman> :)
20090327 14:59:13< Ivanovic> boucman: currently it is the other way around, everything is in the google form and the link missing in the wiki
20090327 14:59:14< Ivanovic> ;)
20090327 14:59:33< res|laptop> the problem with a link is, it's not useful
20090327 14:59:48< res|laptop> unless you're a wesnoth mentor you can't read it
20090327 14:59:53< boucman> res|laptop: you can also do the link the other way round, as long as we find the info :P
20090327 15:00:11< Ivanovic> res|laptop: as "link" it is already enough to just say "the info is all available in the SoC form"
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20090327 15:00:21< res|laptop> Ivanovic: yeah I added that now ;)
20090327 15:00:23< Velory> boucman: so u will write for example find(me.abilities,'elt1',find(filter(my_units,abilities),'elt2',elt1=elt2)=undef) ?
20090327 15:00:47< boucman> something like that, yes
20090327 15:00:52< Ivanovic> res|laptop: ah, okay
20090327 15:00:56-!- happygrue [n=George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 15:01:02< Ivanovic> sorry, it is too early for me
20090327 15:01:03< Ivanovic> ;)
20090327 15:01:06< Velory> i think encapsulate is really simplfying this line and easier to debug
20090327 15:01:42< boucman> Velory: yes, but you could simply write "def encapsulate" at the top of your file, same readability, aoids a C++ function
20090327 15:02:20< res|laptop> boucman: I put the wiki page in as "additional info". tho that seems to be not very visible on the proposal view page
20090327 15:02:38< boucman> res|laptop: that's fine
20090327 15:03:01< boucman> last year we spent some time matching the google proposal with wiki page, and I'm trying to avoid having the same problem again
20090327 15:03:20< Ivanovic> jupp
20090327 15:03:49< Ivanovic> (and i would prefer to see the irc nick shown in the google list view instead of the real name...)
20090327 15:04:53< boucman> Ivanovic: not sure if the student form allow them to do that
20090327 15:05:01< boucman> could be in the proposal titile though...
20090327 15:05:15< Ivanovic> boucman: no, this is something the google listview does not feature
20090327 15:05:26< Velory> i think this one is could be global function because its improvement and general thing also takes 6,7 lines in c++ so we have like simple path and short path like this i think...Or if we want to write global function should we write just, the function that can do something that you couldnt do before ? i think improvement like this also handy i dont know
20090327 15:05:33< boucman> interesting idea to submit as a feature request, though :)
20090327 15:06:06< boucman> Velory: do it as a "def" if you need it for your healing, so I am not forced to include it
20090327 15:06:24< boucman> we will need a generic FAI library for that kind of functions at some point, though
20090327 15:06:27< Velory> boucman: i'm not need for my healing
20090327 15:06:37< boucman> ok, fine then
20090327 15:09:21< Velory> i wrote it because in easycoding page there is something like "Add new formula functions, or minor improvements to the formula language. "
20090327 15:10:01< boucman> Velory: yes, as I said, you can submit the function as a patch, that will give us more of your code to see, and we might include it later, 
20090327 15:10:14< boucman> but at that point I don't have the perspective to juge how needed it is
20090327 15:10:21< Velory> i didnt see this message
20090327 15:10:28< Velory> :)
20090327 15:11:11< Velory> boucman:ok so no problem about that
20090327 15:11:57< Ivanovic> okay, i am afk for some hours
20090327 15:13:29< Velory> boucman: i have another questions i need a variable like selected_unit for my healing improvement
20090327 15:13:40< Velory> s/questions/question
20090327 15:14:01< boucman> what would be "selected unit" ?
20090327 15:14:41-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 15:14:43< boucman> the unit that the player has selected ? I don't really like the idea, it wouldn't work well with multiplayer, where multiple units are selected simultaneously
20090327 15:14:56< Velory> boucman: wait a sec phone
20090327 15:17:03< Velory> boucman: its variable like which units is selected now it is for when formula playing
20090327 15:17:33< Velory> boucman:for example if(index_of('curing',selected_unit.abilities)
20090327 15:18:01< Velory> boucman:because indexof('curing',me.abilities) always returning true if we have a unit that have healing power in army
20090327 15:18:06< boucman> Velory: well, in multiplayer, that doesn't really make sense, and what would it do if no unit is selected ?
20090327 15:18:25< boucman> no, it returns true only if 'me' has the ability
20090327 15:18:32< boucman> which is one unit of your army
20090327 15:18:48< Velory> hmm but in my function its always returning 1 and looking for other if :S
20090327 15:19:23< Velory> boucman :     if(index_of('healing', me.abilities) != -1,
20090327 15:19:48< Crab_> Velory, if you want this just for testing from console, you may try to use " find(my_units,loc(x,y)) " instead of "me" to get to any of your units
20090327 15:21:43< Velory> Crab_:i know that but i may not know location of healer unit in every turn
20090327 15:22:17< Velory> Crab_:im looking if the selected unit is healer
20090327 15:22:41< Velory> then i'm controlling other units for if they need heal
20090327 15:22:44< Crab_> Velory, you mean "selected unit for human player" ?
20090327 15:22:48< Velory> no
20090327 15:22:50< Velory> formula
20090327 15:22:55< Crab_> Verory, then "me" will go
20090327 15:23:00< Velory> yes i think so
20090327 15:23:01< boucman> debug_print(index_of('healing',head(filter(my_units,loc.x=17 and loc.y=10)).abilities))
20090327 15:23:04< boucman> returns 1
20090327 15:23:04< Crab_> s/Verory/Velory/, sorry
20090327 15:23:43< Velory> boucman:yes but i want locations are not static
20090327 15:23:44< boucman> remember that filter() returns a list, not a unit
20090327 15:24:12< Velory> boucman: cause there is no certain that healer will start in x = 17 and y = 10
20090327 15:24:16< boucman> well, just replace head(filter(my_units,loc.x=17 and loc.y=10)) with 'me' and it should work
20090327 15:24:40< boucman> Velory: of course not, I tested with the unit ad 17,10 which happens to be a healer
20090327 15:24:52< boucman> but you don't have to find any unit, you're running evaluation code
20090327 15:25:17< boucman> so 'me' will successively be each unit, you just have to test if it's a healer
20090327 15:25:19< Velory> boucman: yes im just looking for if he has healing ability
20090327 15:25:23< Crab_> Velory, then you must do additional actions in the same formula you used to check for healing. 
20090327 15:25:50< Crab_> Velory, see the end of recruitment.fai - there's some if's there
20090327 15:25:58< boucman> if(index_of('healing',me.abilities) != -1,1,-1) should work
20090327 15:26:37< Velory> yes
20090327 15:26:45< Velory> i already wrote that
20090327 15:26:45< Velory> http://pastebin.com/d69af30cd
20090327 15:26:49< Velory> there is my code
20090327 15:26:55< Velory> but something wrong with that
20090327 15:27:52< Velory> im trying debug but i think every unit is taking 1 if any healer in our army and look other function
20090327 15:29:57< Crab_> question 1: you are trying to make a candidate move evaluation for the healer ?
20090327 15:30:14< Velory> yes
20090327 15:30:24< Crab_> Velory, then why if(index_of('healing', check.abilities) ? why not me.abilities ?
20090327 15:30:30< Velory> oh
20090327 15:30:30< Velory> :S
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20090327 15:30:43< Velory> no
20090327 15:30:44< Velory> in that line
20090327 15:30:49< Velory> im looking other unit has ability
20090327 15:31:03< Velory> because if unit that need healing is have healing ability
20090327 15:31:13< Velory> there is no need to go to heal him
20090327 15:31:18< Crab_> why ?
20090327 15:31:27< Velory> ?
20090327 15:31:36< Velory> hmm
20090327 15:31:46< Velory> units cant heal themselves?
20090327 15:31:55< Velory> like curing ?
20090327 15:32:17< Crab_> no, they don't heal themselves
20090327 15:32:21< boucman> Velory: units can't heal themselves, and units can't cure themselves,
20090327 15:32:22< Velory> hmm
20090327 15:32:30< Velory> i know cant cure themself
20090327 15:32:37< boucman> healing yourself is a different ability called regenerate
20090327 15:32:39< Velory> but i dont know that cant heal themself
20090327 15:32:42< Velory> yes
20090327 15:32:46< Velory> i looked regenerates
20090327 15:32:50< boucman> (that you could test too, but start with something simple, then improve)
20090327 15:32:56< Velory> but i missed that units cant heal themself
20090327 15:33:12< Velory> i tested that
20090327 15:33:28< Velory> if(index_of('regenerates', check.abilities)
20090327 15:33:30< Crab_> velory, drop that checks for now :) make something simpler work at first, then improve.
20090327 15:33:45< Velory> hmm
20090327 15:33:53< Velory> ok
20090327 15:34:23< Velory> i think my get_free_loc ability has some problem anyway i will start with something simple Ok :)
20090327 15:35:34< Crab_> Velory: you can even extract 'units near me that need healing and can't heal themselves' into separate 'def', and play with it later.
20090327 15:35:41 * boucman just loves debug_float for testing :)
20090327 15:36:39< Crab_> )
20090327 15:37:17< Velory> :)
20090327 15:41:26< Velory> ok i agree starting work with simple things is easier :):)
20090327 15:41:38< Velory> now i can move 1 hex my healer :D:D
20090327 15:41:41-!- ettin [n=jorda@wesnoth/developer/ettin] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090327 15:41:46< Velory> :o
20090327 15:42:02< Crab_> :-D
20090327 15:43:36< YogiHH> back
20090327 15:44:16< Crab_> Velory, btw, (distance_between(unit.loc,me.loc) <= me.total_movement )  is wrong - healer has to move to adjacent_loc to another unit to heal it. so, If you have 3 moves left, you can, zoc and terrain permitting, move to heal a unit which is 4 tiles from healer. (distance_between(unit.loc,me.loc) <= me.total_movement+1 )  is better.
20090327 15:45:56< Velory> hmm i see thanks
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20090327 15:46:00< Velory> but
20090327 15:46:07< Velory> i used adjacent_locs already?
20090327 15:46:14< Crab_> yes, and that was good.
20090327 15:46:29< Crab_> but, your "where" clause will miss some potential units
20090327 15:46:35< Velory> hmm
20090327 15:46:36< Velory> i see
20090327 15:46:41< Velory> thanks about that :)
20090327 15:47:49< Crab_> Velory, that is from the fact that " distance_between(loc(10,10) , loc(10,9)) "  is 1, not null.
20090327 15:48:02< Crab_> s/null/0
20090327 15:48:37< Velory> hmm you are right
20090327 15:49:05< boucman> hehe http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtophttp://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=347628#p347628
20090327 15:49:49< Crab_> boucman, )))))))
20090327 15:50:08< Velory> hahahaaa :):)
20090327 15:54:05< Velory> well i learned my function also working good :) with do_simple_first  approach haha :D
20090327 15:54:46< Crab_> thats good :) time to save the working variant somewhere (just in case), and start to make it more interesting :)
20090327 15:54:59< boucman> Velory: about the poisoner patch, 
20090327 15:55:05< Velory> boucman: yes
20090327 15:55:59< boucman> there are probably lots of stuff that can be added to make it smarter, but I'll add it "as is" other people will probably come and improve it later
20090327 15:56:23< Velory> yes i can improve too
20090327 15:56:42< boucman> sure, 
20090327 15:57:19< Velory> but now units that have poison spreding poison good
20090327 15:57:27< boucman> Velory: you didn't add a changelog entry nor an about.cfg entry, though
20090327 15:57:48< Velory> about.cfg ?
20090327 15:57:53< boucman> could you do that, please ?
20090327 15:58:08< Velory> yes but im not sure i understand you quiet
20090327 15:58:15< boucman> data/core/about.cfg
20090327 15:58:21< Velory> oh
20090327 15:58:48< Velory> and i think i missed main_.cfg didnt i ?
20090327 15:58:57< boucman> it lists all wesnoth contributors, you can add your name there (under misc contributors
20090327 15:59:08< boucman> Velory: nope, you added that one
20090327 15:59:26< boucman> please post an new patch with all that and we're good to go
20090327 15:59:28< Velory> Ok so i must write change log to about.cfg righht?
20090327 15:59:37< Velory> ok :)
20090327 15:59:45< boucman> yes,
20090327 16:00:44< Velory> i should add below programming righrt?
20090327 16:00:52< boucman> no
20090327 16:00:57< boucman> misceleanous contributors
20090327 16:01:13< Velory> ok
20090327 16:03:23< Velory> i should add underste_?
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20090327 16:03:43< Velory> of misceleanous cont.
20090327 16:03:45< Velory> ?
20090327 16:03:58< boucman> i don't understand
20090327 16:08:10< Velory> nearly done just i missed other things :)
20090327 16:09:24< Velory> done im attaching
20090327 16:09:44< boucman> Crab_: a possible improvement to your file would be to also check the campaign directories
20090327 16:10:10< boucman> no emergency, though, since it's a dev only feature and can easily be added in a backward compatible way
20090327 16:10:16< Crab_> boucman, isn't it a job for get_wml_location ?
20090327 16:10:42< boucman> Crab_: I was only looking at the comment in your file actually, i havn't checked the code of get_wml_location
20090327 16:11:43< Velory> here ->https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1138
20090327 16:12:04< boucman> Velory: will look later, I'm proofreading Crab_'s stuff right now
20090327 16:12:14< Crab_> boucman, I've written that comment only to make it obvious that security checks are made. Feel free to rewrite that comment if you want it to mention the fact that get_wml_location looks in a number of places (depending on the 1st symbol of file path)...
20090327 16:13:02< Velory> ok u know
20090327 16:13:10< boucman> Crab_: that's fine, you'll have to precised it when documenting the function in wiki though (which might be as simple as stating that the path follows the usual wml convention)
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20090327 16:13:21< Crab_> ok
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20090327 16:18:04< Velory> boucman: can i use or is there any way to use my eval function in move code or i should also write in move too?
20090327 16:18:26< boucman> Velory: right now it's easier to copy it
20090327 16:18:58< Velory> boucman:ok
20090327 16:19:42< chains> Yeah, my assassin just meleed a clasher, definitely something wrong with weapon selections
20090327 16:22:04< Crab_> chains, got a save which reproduces this ?
20090327 16:22:53< chains> It happens a lot. 
20090327 16:23:12< chains> I will see if I can make an attack with an assassin without it happening before I make you a replay. 
20090327 16:23:30< Crab_> ok
20090327 16:23:43< chains> You should be able to reproduce it simply by recruiting an assassin and attacking something 
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20090327 16:26:04< Crab_> chains: yes, reproduced
20090327 16:26:38< chains> Morning Bb ;) 
20090327 16:26:49< chains> Hows texas?
20090327 16:32:05< Velory> boucman: now my healing improvement working correct but there is something that need to be improve are there any variable for which unit is next ?
20090327 16:32:21< boucman> I don't understand
20090327 16:32:22< Velory> after me?
20090327 16:32:23< Blueblaze> chains: Hey, good :P
20090327 16:32:24< Velory> hmm
20090327 16:32:33< Velory> which unit will be selected after me
20090327 16:32:40< Velory> who is next unit
20090327 16:32:53< Velory> are there any variable for that
20090327 16:33:06< boucman> Velory: no, and I don't understand why you would need that
20090327 16:33:16< Crab_> Velory, see formula_ai::make_candidate_moves()
20090327 16:34:02< Velory> im asking because for example my healer went near of my unit but in other turn my unit that need heal might move other hex
20090327 16:34:18< Crab_> and see ai::build_move_list() 
20090327 16:34:34< Velory> crab_:ok
20090327 16:34:48< Crab_> s/ai::build_move_list()/formula_ai::build_move_list() 
20090327 16:35:11< boucman> Crab_: testing your patch, I have a little problem
20090327 16:35:32< boucman> I created a simple WML file called data/test.fai
20090327 16:35:49< YogiHH> Velory: Because healing takes place at the beginning of a turn, it doesn't make much sense to move the healer to the units that need healing. Rather units that need healing must move to the healer.
20090327 16:35:55< boucman> when i type "run_file('test.fai')" my formula runs normally
20090327 16:36:17< Crab_> and what is the problem ?
20090327 16:36:27< YogiHH> Velory: What you can do of course is move the healer near to those units, so they can move to him afterwards
20090327 16:36:28< boucman> but when I type "run_file('test')" it fails, apparently in creaate_optional_formula 
20090327 16:36:55< boucman> aha
20090327 16:37:00< boucman> propble in read_file
20090327 16:37:07< boucman> you don't add the extension :)
20090327 16:37:10< Velory> yoggihh: i see but :D i wrote like that because in easy code page Handle units with healing power, moving them at places where they can provide the most healing  :D so ok i will change
20090327 16:37:20< boucman> I'll let you fix that and submit a new patch
20090327 16:38:03< boucman> back to poisoning :)
20090327 16:38:11< Velory> boucman: ok 
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20090327 16:38:20< Velory> boucman: what u think about that ?
20090327 16:38:27< Velory> boucman: cause i will change whole code :)
20090327 16:38:34< Velory> boucman:about healing
20090327 16:39:31< Wearfe> morning, gentlemen
20090327 16:39:43< YogiHH> hi Wearfe 
20090327 16:39:52< Velory> hi Wearfe
20090327 16:40:14< Wearfe> so what can you guys tell me about the google summer of code project?
20090327 16:40:17< boucman> Velory: remember that in the move formula, you can return a list of moves, thus moving both units in one go
20090327 16:40:26< boucman> Velory: if you feel you can do it, give it a try
20090327 16:41:09< YogiHH> Wearfe: Maybe you can be a little bit more specific?
20090327 16:41:32< Wearfe> well, i was interested in the AI portion of it, but my buddy said that there was already a few people working on it
20090327 16:41:37< Crab_> boucman, what about "I don't add the extension" ?I use "read_file(path)", where path is always a return value of "get_wml_location", which, AFAIK, guarantees a non-empty result if the file exists and can be opened by read_file. Tell me how to reproduce,and I'll check it out.
20090327 16:41:57< Wearfe> the majority of the work would be translating the C++ AI to the formulaAI version?
20090327 16:42:25< boucman> Crab_: I just told you how to reproduce my problem
20090327 16:42:28< Velory> boucman: yes looking moves list is gooder
20090327 16:42:41< boucman> however, I agree that adding the ".fai" part is an unneeded feature..
20090327 16:42:50< nital> exit
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20090327 16:43:59< Crab_> ok, i'll check (this would take some time, as it will require another full checkout of the source, as svn hasn't got local branches)
20090327 16:44:24< YogiHH> Wearfe: did you read the wiki page about SoC Ideas?
20090327 16:44:46< Velory> boucman: before that i will submit my encapsulate func.-> should i submit my other function distance_list_between too?maybe it might be worthy too ?
20090327 16:45:21< boucman> Crab_: a "cp" of your whole build tree works, though, that's faster than network download
20090327 16:45:47< Crab_> thanks, you are right ) 
20090327 16:45:57< boucman> Velory: you can submit, I'm not sure I will commit, though
20090327 16:46:08< Velory> boucman:Ok thanks :)
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20090327 16:49:35< CIA-30> boucman * r34185 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): added a very basic poison handling. This is a proof of concept to be improved on. Patch by Velory
20090327 16:50:10< Crab_> boucman: interesting bug :) rename 'test' to 'foo'  and try again :) both run_file('foo') and run_file('foo.fai') will work.
20090327 16:50:20< boucman> ???
20090327 16:50:22< boucman> weird
20090327 16:50:44< Crab_> aa, i understood
20090327 16:51:01< boucman> yes ?
20090327 16:51:05-!- elias__ [n=elias@62-47-181-183.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 16:51:50< Crab_> sorry, let me check something beforehand )
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20090327 16:53:31< Velory> boucman:very very basic poison handling(for *-18 years* ) : D:D
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20090327 16:53:44< boucman> :)
20090327 16:56:17< zookeeper> hey, what's gonna be our april 1st ploy?
20090327 16:56:39< boucman> zookeeper: please discuss in #wesnoth-dev-nonpublic :P
20090327 16:56:41-!- molgrum [n=molgrum@c83-249-53-163.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Lämnar"]
20090327 16:56:46< Polarina> zookeeper: Wesnoth is all in l33t speak.
20090327 16:56:51< Polarina> zookeeper: Or the website.
20090327 16:57:09< boucman> hey actually, a l33t translation would be pretty funny to do
20090327 16:57:40< Polarina> Who's going to be the maintainer?
20090327 16:57:45< loonycyborg> Maybe have CIA bot to transmit fake humorous commit messages? :P
20090327 16:57:56< Polarina> loonycyborg: Not so funny...
20090327 16:58:02< boucman> let's submit wesnoth as a kernel patch
20090327 16:58:08< Polarina> boucman: lol
20090327 16:58:35< Crab_> or make a web interface to wesnoth :)
20090327 16:58:42< Crab_> ajax-based )
20090327 16:58:42< zookeeper> a kernel patch to reduce RNG randomness for wesnoth :x
20090327 16:58:42< elias> hehe, the Linux-kernel finally gains an edge in integrated gaming
20090327 16:59:35< boucman> zookeeper: patch new boot-screen, play wesnoth dunring long boot (1 out of 32768)
20090327 16:59:47< boucman> finaly solved the long fsck problem :P
20090327 17:00:45< voris> Upside-down-ternet for website.
20090327 17:00:58< voris> http://www.ex-parrot.com/~pete/upside-down-ternet.html
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20090327 17:05:28< Velory> boucman: can i edit my comment :D
20090327 17:05:44< Velory> in patches.gna.org
20090327 17:05:51< Velory> sorry patches.wesnoth.org
20090327 17:06:24< boucman> Velory: I'm not sure what you mean
20090327 17:06:25-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 17:06:46< Crab_> boucman, see http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m110c7ab9
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20090327 17:08:01< Velory> can i edit my original submission in my patch?
20090327 17:08:30< ettin> hmm, just curious, has wesnoth received more or less gsoc applications so far?
20090327 17:08:59< boucman> Crab_: indeed there is...
20090327 17:09:01< boucman> interesting
20090327 17:09:23< boucman> ok, I have to run now, if you remove the .fai auto-extension, it's good for commit
20090327 17:09:30< boucman> se you all later
20090327 17:09:34< Crab_> boucman, so get_wml_location doesn't know that we are interested only in *file*, not a dir )
20090327 17:10:02< Crab_> boucman: ok, i'll do that. see you later.
20090327 17:10:08< Velory> boucman: ok goodbye
20090327 17:24:14< Crab_> boucman: new version of run_file patch submitted
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20090327 17:56:55< Velory> im afk about 2 hour
20090327 17:59:36< Polarina> Good to know. :)
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20090327 18:26:19< CIA-30> boucman * r34186 /trunk/src/ (formula_ai.cpp formula_ai.hpp): add the run_file FAI command, mainly to ease debugging, patch by Crab
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20090327 18:26:56< Crab_> thanks, boucman
20090327 18:27:30< boucman> Crab_: you still have to document it in the wiki, and you're done :)
20090327 18:27:43< Crab_> boucman: ok, I'll do so today.
20090327 18:28:15< Crab_> after the next context switch :)
20090327 18:33:41-!- alink [n=alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 18:33:50< alink> hi
20090327 18:34:08-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 18:34:15< boucman> hey alink
20090327 18:34:23< alink> 'lo boucman
20090327 18:34:40< boucman> alink: I'm ready to backport your idea to 1.6, I'm convinced we won't have regression
20090327 18:35:52< alink> i didn't have the time to read your last change, but ok
20090327 18:36:20< alink> i am mainly happy to avoid the introduction of the in_hex key
20090327 18:36:56< alink> updating the wiki is soooo boring ;)
20090327 18:37:39 * zookeeper is happy too ;)
20090327 18:37:56< alink> plus the fact to avoid touching the WML of all units and avoid the same work for UMC is a good thing
20090327 18:37:56< zookeeper> so what's the alternative idea?
20090327 18:38:19< alink> zookeeper: le t the engine do the work and scan the image
20090327 18:38:31< alink> s/le t/let
20090327 18:39:21< boucman> it would be good if we could have jetryl look at the image with just a couple extra pixels, though
20090327 18:39:34< zookeeper> alink, sounds sensible indeed
20090327 18:39:50< zookeeper> i can poke him about that
20090327 18:40:10< zookeeper> boucman, any idea what's the deal with people complaining that submerging doesn't work? it works for me
20090327 18:40:14< boucman> alink: you should point zookeeperto your list
20090327 18:40:31< boucman> zookeeper: it's news to me...
20090327 18:40:42< boucman> any pattern (os, version unit ) ?
20090327 18:41:08< alink> zookeeper: yes works for me too, but glad to hear that it work for some other windows
20090327 18:41:50< zookeeper> boucman, IIRC not... here's one, and of course there's no details: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24670
20090327 18:42:13< alink> zookeeper: list of pixels out-of-hex for base frame https://gna.org/patch/?1134#comment11
20090327 18:42:16< boucman> will look at later, i'm busy right now
20090327 18:42:42< boucman> alink: you might as well build the list for all unit images, since the optimisation works for everything now
20090327 18:43:06< zookeeper> alink, ok, i'll direct jetryl to that...there's no point in optimizing animation frames though, right?
20090327 18:43:08< zookeeper> just the base frames?
20090327 18:43:37< boucman> zookeeper: optimizing animation frames would help too, but they are drawn much less often so it's less important
20090327 18:43:44< alink> yes indeed, but that create a huge list with a lot of occurense where it's normal that we go out of the hex
20090327 18:45:36< boucman> alink: filter for the ones with only a couple of hex out, maybe
20090327 18:45:54< alink> you mean pixel, i guess
20090327 18:46:01< boucman> yes :P
20090327 18:48:22< alink> but that's a good idea, i add it to my script. It's also easy to sort them by pixel number, but then the directory locations will be mixed
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20090327 18:52:23< cjhopman_> anyone around willing to test a patch quick?
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20090327 18:56:22< alink> boucman: or maybe not, some units have a lot of low-alpha pixels out of the hex, like this marshall who have  ~1000 pixels with alpha=1 out
20090327 18:56:44< boucman> alink: that is definitely a bug
20090327 18:58:17< alink> (the maximum possible of pixels out of hex is ~1200)
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20090327 19:00:38< boucman> well, seem we have some work to do...
20090327 19:01:52< alink> boucman, zookeeper, the list without filter (except skipping images not 72x72) : https://gna.org/patch/?1134#comment12   about ~610 images
20090327 19:02:55< turin>  any reason not to erase every single pixel with alpha<10 or so? that would probably clear up a lot of stuff (from the artist's POV, easiest way to leave stray pixels around is when they're almost transparent, and pixels with those alphas are pretty much never intentional)
20090327 19:03:36< boucman> turin: the main reason is we don't know where to put the cursor :P
20090327 19:04:44< alink> turin: maybe but it's sometimes progressive shadow and halo, so need to check if it stay smooth near the area where you remove such pixels
20090327 19:07:55< Ivanovic> Crab_: just heard from boucman that you met all requirements for getting svn access
20090327 19:08:15< Crab_> thats nice to know :) 
20090327 19:08:40< Ivanovic> Crab_: so if you want to, i can add you
20090327 19:08:42< Ivanovic> ;)
20090327 19:09:36< Crab_> Ivanovic: well, I want to. But, of course, I will use patches.wesnoth.org for some more time, before actually using that svn access :)
20090327 19:09:39< Ivanovic> so say 'aye' or 'ney'
20090327 19:09:41< Ivanovic> ah, okay
20090327 19:09:51< Ivanovic> added you
20090327 19:10:05< Ivanovic> yes, this is probably a good idea, especially for this "big ones"
20090327 19:10:08< Crab_> Ivanovic: i need to give you a ssh pubkey ?
20090327 19:10:19< Ivanovic> you have to add it in your own gna profile
20090327 19:10:24< Crab_> ok
20090327 19:10:39< Ivanovic> basically you have all the access to our repository and the tracker as every other wesnoth dev
20090327 19:11:13< alink> I just found Gimp > Colors > Levels   then use channel alpha and move the first little white triangle to 0, it boost all alpha
20090327 19:11:42< Crab_> Ivanovic, by the way, does anyone of the devs use git-svn instead of svn for tracking changes?
20090327 19:11:46< Ivanovic> once your key is at gna for long enough (their update stuff can take a while, for me it was several hours), you can switch your checkout to svn+ssh://crab@
20090327 19:12:01< Ivanovic> several do IIRC
20090327 19:12:14< Ivanovic> that is at least Soliton, silene and Mordante
20090327 19:13:00< Crab_> Soliton, how many HDD space is required for tracking Wesnoth using git (git-svn) ?
20090327 19:13:04< alink> the bad background around the marshall : http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3749/marshal.png
20090327 19:13:37< alink> mmh sorry, maybe you need a black background (like i use for my browser) to see it
20090327 19:14:13< Crab_> Ivanovic: (I'm thinking of git mainly because of local branches)
20090327 19:14:46-!- YogiHH [n=chatzill@d085188.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 19:14:49< Ivanovic> Crab_: in general you should now at least subscribe to wesnoth-dev (if you have not done so so far)
20090327 19:14:49< Crab_> Ivanovic: and thanks :)
20090327 19:14:56< Crab_> Ivanovic: subscribed
20090327 19:14:58< Soliton> Crab_: 1.1G    .git/  + however much you need per checkout.
20090327 19:15:01< Ivanovic> personally i can also recommend subscribing to the commits ml
20090327 19:15:11< Crab_> Soliton: thanks.
20090327 19:15:30-!- mordante [n=mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 19:15:41< Ivanovic> hi mordante
20090327 19:15:45< alink> hello mordante
20090327 19:15:47< mordante> hi
20090327 19:15:49< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
20090327 19:15:57< mordante> hi alink 
20090327 19:15:57< Crab_> hi mordante
20090327 19:15:59< YogiHH> hi mordante, you got a few minutes?
20090327 19:16:05< mordante> hi Crab_ 
20090327 19:16:15< mordante> hi YogiHH yes a few
20090327 19:16:16< Soliton> Crab_: you can get a tarball with the repository at files.wesnoth.org/hidden/git/
20090327 19:16:23< alink> Ah Gimp > layer > transparency > threshold alpha is simpler for that
20090327 19:16:45< mordante> YogiHH,  and I'm not sure I added that second wave function, IIRC it was already there when I started to work on it
20090327 19:17:19< YogiHH> mordante: you didn't do that config_writer thingy?
20090327 19:17:43< mordante> I can look at it, but I'm quite sure I didn't
20090327 19:18:02< YogiHH> well - then - never mind :-)
20090327 19:18:35< Crab_> Soliton: thans
20090327 19:18:46-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@79.139.246.190] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 19:18:52< Crab_> s/thans/thanks )
20090327 19:19:38-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.246.190] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 19:20:09< CIA-30> alink * r34187 /trunk/data/tools/hexometer/ (. alphamask.png hexometer): A basic shell script to find the number of pixels out of the hex in unit images
20090327 19:21:05< orian_> hi mordante,
20090327 19:21:17< mordante> hi orian_ 
20090327 19:21:32< mordante> orian_, you had some questions regarding the schemes?
20090327 19:21:42< orian_> mordante: yes ;)
20090327 19:21:45< YogiHH> mordante: ah, i see, it looks like you only wrote the function comment :-)
20090327 19:21:58< mordante> YogiHH, http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=15085 :-P
20090327 19:22:55< mordante> was already deprecated there I only changed the comment to a todo
20090327 19:23:21< mordante> orian_, I'm off for dinner will be back in about half an hour then we can talk
20090327 19:23:34< orian_> mordante: ok, nice
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20090327 19:29:19< boucman> of for the evening, see you all later
20090327 19:29:23< boucman> and congratulations Crab_
20090327 19:29:32< Crab_> thanks :)
20090327 19:30:58< alink_>  oh a new dev, cool :) 
20090327 19:31:06< YogiHH> Crab_: welcome on board :-)
20090327 19:31:07< alink_> Crab_: welcome
20090327 19:31:48< Crab_> thanks, YogiHH and alink )) I'll do my best :)
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20090327 19:35:45< Soliton> Crab_: i've just updated the tarball so if you restart the download don't resume.
20090327 19:36:12< Soliton> i should setup a cron job to autoupdate it...
20090327 19:36:45< Crab_> Soliton: ok. my wget at 21% now.
20090327 19:39:50< alink_> wesbot: bug 13240
20090327 19:39:51< wesbot> Bug #13240  Assigned to: None  Status: None  Priority: 5 - Normal
20090327 19:39:51< wesbot> Summary: No Transparenty on Units that stands into the water
20090327 19:39:51< wesbot> Original submission: (Sorry about my bad english^^)
20090327 19:39:54< wesbot> r, theres no transparenty. See http://tinyurl.com/d24mtw
20090327 19:39:57< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?13240
20090327 19:40:00< alink_> boucman: ^
20090327 19:40:09-!- alink [n=alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090327 19:40:58< alink_> mmh you are away, assiging it to you
20090327 19:41:38< happygrue> esr: zookeeper, whomever else:  Are there any particular places where we could direct people like this guy: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24673  , who are interested in bettering our wordage?
20090327 19:42:00< happygrue> I am thinking a campaign that could do with some better writing to look at or something
20090327 19:42:46< esr> happygrue: I'll reply.
20090327 19:42:55< happygrue> esr: thanks
20090327 19:43:34< happygrue> in light of all the great new artwork it would be nice to have more work put into story writing for some places too IMHO.
20090327 19:44:02-!- mjs-de [n=mjs-de@vpw.wh.uni-dortmund.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20090327 19:51:18< mordante> ah boucman I see you committed the patch, also cleaned up the doxygen comment a bit?
20090327 19:51:26< mordante> welcome aboard Crab_ 
20090327 19:51:47< mordante> orian_, I'm around now
20090327 19:51:55< orian_> i see ;)
20090327 19:52:04< Crab_> mordante. welcome. I've added @param and @retval to that comment
20090327 19:52:04-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
20090327 19:52:19< mordante> Crab_, a great thanks
20090327 19:53:16< mordante> Shadow_Master, what's the idea behind r34170 you increase the header dependencies without any reason why
20090327 19:54:32< mordante> with this change in version.hpp a lot gets recompiled since game_config.hpp is included (indirectly) in a lot of places
20090327 19:56:05< orian_> mordante: I am looking in the place in code where the .cfg is loading, if i'm right some of object like canvas are initialised by .cfg, some for example unit are more "general" type
20090327 19:56:39< orian_> I would like to understand the mechanism how WML works
20090327 19:57:07< orian_> I read WML reference, and some others wiki pages
20090327 19:57:19< orian_> and try to look into the source
20090327 19:58:01< orian_> at beggining I decide to try create some patch from easycoding
20090327 19:58:32< mordante> the configs for the widgets are loaded separately since this code is fully serialized and is no longer needed after loading
20090327 19:58:47< orian_> aha
20090327 19:59:05< mordante> the code is in gui2::load_settings() in gui/widgets/settings.cpp
20090327 19:59:12< orian_> if I want to do this: https://gna.org/bugs/?6301 where should I look?
20090327 20:00:16< orian_> I found that villages are remember in map.cpp
20090327 20:03:36< orian_> can you give me a clue when/where is recalculated the amount of money that have player?
20090327 20:03:57< mordante> I was already looking ;-)
20090327 20:04:27< mordante> village_income is used to define it so grep for its usage and you should be able to find where to change it
20090327 20:04:35< orian_> ok ;)
20090327 20:04:40< mordante> zookeeper, is https://gna.org/bugs/?6301 still wanted
20090327 20:04:54< mordante> just to make sure it's valid on the easy coding list
20090327 20:05:20< mordante> (IIRC some people just added their FR there without approval of the developers)
20090327 20:05:45< orian_> what is FR?
20090327 20:06:07< orian_> FR = feature request?:>
20090327 20:06:10< happygrue> yes
20090327 20:06:22 * orian_ is lucky
20090327 20:06:43< happygrue> orian_: then you must be good at this game ;)
20090327 20:08:10< mordante> ilor, around?
20090327 20:08:17< ilor> mordante: yes
20090327 20:08:23< orian_> happygrue: You know, yesterday, 2 my friends was playing short wesnoth scenario in the break between lecture, and we was wondering how is made the randon in wesnoth:)
20090327 20:08:33< mordante> ilor, you had some questions regarding the MP stuff?
20090327 20:09:31< Soliton> fendrin: pong
20090327 20:10:43< happygrue> orian_: hehe, it's rigged of course!  That way the developers can always win ;)
20090327 20:10:47< ilor> mordante: I had a chat with Soliton on #wesnoth-mp and that helped me clarify my ideas, so right now I'll be doing my wiki page so there's a base for further discussion
20090327 20:11:08< CIA-30> mordante * r34188 /trunk/po/CMakeLists.txt: 
20090327 20:11:08< CIA-30> Made the update-po4a target unconditionally again.
20090327 20:11:08< CIA-30> Stikonas reported problems with this change, can't reproduce it here but
20090327 20:11:08< CIA-30> reverted, since it doesn't break for me.
20090327 20:11:09< mordante> a good
20090327 20:11:22< ilor> mordante: meanwhile we can try fixing that lobby whisper textbox message crash if you can point me in the right direction
20090327 20:12:09-!- Dragonking [n=dk@wesnoth/developer/dragonking] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 20:12:22< Dragonking> hi everyone
20090327 20:12:31< mordante> hi Dragonking 
20090327 20:12:33< Crab_> hi Dragonking
20090327 20:12:34< Dragonking> Thanks God it's weekend already :S
20090327 20:12:43 * mordante fully agrees
20090327 20:14:21< Polarina> And I also have more time to work on Wesnoth. :D
20090327 20:14:24< mordante> ilor, when it crashes the can you print the sizes of the canvas?
20090327 20:14:37< mordante> s/crashes/throws the exception/
20090327 20:14:45-!- elias [n=elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090327 20:15:57< ilor> mordante: on it, need to rebuild after svn up
20090327 20:16:05< mordante> ok
20090327 20:17:20-!- fendrin [n=fabi@f050250230.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 20:17:53< fendrin> Soliton: ping
20090327 20:18:40 * Soliton is not going to answer that.
20090327 20:19:05< fendrin> ?
20090327 20:19:09< Soliton> if you have a question ask it. i'm not here to play ping pong.
20090327 20:20:12< fendrin> Soliton: the attribute you suggested to use, was it enemy= ? How is it used? I can't find it in the wiki.
20090327 20:21:15< Soliton> it takes a list of sides.
20090327 20:23:43< Polarina> zookeeper: I need a "female^" tag for the string "Immune·to·drain,·poison·and·plague" in 'wesnoth'.
20090327 20:24:21< fendrin> Soliton: thank you :-)
20090327 20:26:15< fendrin> Soliton: wait, that won't work. How can I define a neutral side with that attribute? enemy=none ?
20090327 20:26:21< fendrin> enemy=nil
20090327 20:26:25< fendrin> enemy=[]
20090327 20:26:57-!- silene [n=plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 20:27:15< esr> happygrue: Reply posted at http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24673&p=347715#p347715
20090327 20:27:26< silene> hi
20090327 20:28:31< happygrue> esr: great, I thought that maybe you could best handle that.  :)
20090327 20:28:44< happygrue> does anyone have time to verify that the turn bell is working/not working?
20090327 20:28:58< happygrue> so far only working reports are from Vista
20090327 20:29:16< happygrue> there are several reports of it not working on linux and XP
20090327 20:30:07< mordante> hi silene 
20090327 20:30:26-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 20:30:41< Soliton> fendrin: enemy=0 would work, i guess.
20090327 20:31:34< ilor> mordante: I got to an assert in canvas.cpp:1006, the canvas has w=250 and h=25
20090327 20:34:15< esr> happygrue: Works for me under Linux trunk.
20090327 20:34:43< happygrue> esr: thanks
20090327 20:34:45< fendrin> Soliton: If not I will suggest it in the FR.
20090327 20:34:59< mordante> ilor, and what are x1,y1 and x2,y2
20090327 20:35:20< ilor> x1 and x2 are 253
20090327 20:35:39< ilor> y1 is 4, y2 is 21
20090327 20:35:44< mordante> ok that's probably the cursor
20090327 20:36:33< mordante> can you paste a backtrace only need a short part to see which frame you need to move to
20090327 20:37:15< esr> Does anyone know how to team-color the image in a move_unit_fake?
20090327 20:37:21< Polarina> zookeeper: I also need a "female^" tag for the string "I'm·Ready" in 'wesnoth'.
20090327 20:37:46< ilor> Polarina: are you sure these strings are used in both male and female contexts?
20090327 20:38:09< Polarina> ilor: What do you mean?
20090327 20:38:43< ilor> if this is a "I'm ready" button just shown to the player, there's no point in having a female version if it's just a general one
20090327 20:39:00< Polarina> ilor: It cannot be translated to address both genders.
20090327 20:39:35< Polarina> Unless I make it plural.
20090327 20:39:35< Soliton> if the prgram doesn't know the gender that is how it is...
20090327 20:39:43< ilor> Polarina: I get that. but it could be the case that there's no information which gender it is (ie it's not related to an unit)
20090327 20:40:02< mordante> you talk to the user behind the screen at that point
20090327 20:40:08< Polarina> I could just make it write "Tilbúin(n)" instead of "Tilbúinn" and "Tilbúin"...
20090327 20:40:53< mordante> but don't you have a 'polite' you in your language which is genderless?
20090327 20:41:01< ilor> Polarina: the game will always display one of the strings as there's no way of choosing the "right" one and hence no point in having both
20090327 20:41:10< Polarina> ilor: Ok.
20090327 20:41:43< Polarina> mordante: Not that many words are genderless.
20090327 20:41:45< silene> Polarina: you don't have to translate it straight; it just means "let's go", so if you have a genderless expression for it, it's fine
20090327 20:42:10< Polarina> silene: Ok.
20090327 20:42:26< esr> Never mind, I found it...
20090327 20:42:38< Crab_> chains, around ?
20090327 20:42:48< silene> Polarina: for instance, how has microsoft translated the "start" menu? did they bother with the gender of the user?
20090327 20:43:08< Polarina> silene: Start = Ræsa
20090327 20:43:31< Polarina> silene: It's a verb. Verbs don't usually have gender specific variation.
20090327 20:43:42< mordante> and how "press any key to continue."?
20090327 20:43:53< esr> fendrin: Does what I added to the DM TODO meet your requirements?
20090327 20:44:01< Polarina> mordante: "Þrýstu (verb) á eitthvern takka til að halda áfram."
20090327 20:44:09< Polarina> mordante: Verbs are usually genderless.
20090327 20:44:39 * esr is a linguistics geek and thinks Icelandic is a truly nifty language.
20090327 20:45:23< Polarina> It's also trivial to make errors in it.
20090327 20:45:35< Polarina> accidentally, that is.
20090327 20:45:40< mordante> but there's no genderless polite form to address a person?
20090327 20:45:47< ilor> mordante: http://rafb.net/p/qMPO1E99.html
20090327 20:45:54< esr> Polarina: Well, yeah, with an inflectional grammar that complex it always is.
20090327 20:46:09< Polarina> mordante: Polite is a verb.
20090327 20:46:32 * mordante is confused
20090327 20:47:16 * ilor is hoping it's the "polite" thing and not the backtrace ;)
20090327 20:47:45< mordante> yes it would be bad if my own code confuses me ;-)
20090327 20:48:49< thespaceinvader> Polarina: polite is an adjective
20090327 20:48:56< thespaceinvader> to be polite is a verb
20090327 20:49:15< Polarina> thespaceinvader: Ok.
20090327 20:49:24< thespaceinvader> english is evil
20090327 20:49:44< cjhopman> anyone here willing to test a patch? just need to know how it affects fps for different people...
20090327 20:49:59< ilor> mordante: I have it paused in a debigger so if you need more info about vars on the stack just ask
20090327 20:50:05< Polarina> mordante: Polite, as an addjective, is the same for both genders ("Kurteis").
20090327 20:50:43< mordante> Polarina, wondering whether you have some other ways to address persons in Icelandic
20090327 20:50:57< Polarina> mordante: None I'm aware of.
20090327 20:51:20< Polarina> mordante: There's a way to address neither gender, but usually not both.
20090327 20:52:24< mordante> ilor, frame 3 the tcontrol can you see whether you can access text_ member (the control should be a ttext_ class)
20090327 20:52:43< mordante> Polarina, I think we misunderstand eachother, which other languages do you speak?
20090327 20:52:50< Polarina> mordante: Icelandic.
20090327 20:52:50-!- IneQuation [i=1286@2001:470:1f09:409:0:0:0:1286] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 20:53:29< mordante> :-(
20090327 20:54:17< Polarina> I also speak Esperanto.
20090327 20:55:42-!- fabi [n=fabi@f051064067.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 20:55:47-!- Mad_Troll [n=madtroll@77-97-206-48.cable.ubr15.sgyl.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20090327 20:55:58< mordante> that doesn't help me as well :-(
20090327 20:56:07-!- Velory [n=GProcess@81.213.68.17] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 20:56:10< Mad_Troll> hello
20090327 20:56:14< Velory> Hi everyone
20090327 20:56:20< mordante> cjhopman, where's your patch
20090327 20:56:20< ilor> mordante: ugh, having difficulty accessing the member
20090327 20:56:24< mordante> hi mordante Velory 
20090327 20:56:28< Polarina> mordante: And English too.
20090327 20:57:03< mordante> but in English there's no difference between the normal you and the polite one :-(
20090327 20:57:35< mordante> ilor, what kind of trouble?
20090327 20:58:02< ilor> debugger trouble, obviously ;) wait a sec
20090327 20:59:29< Crab_> btw, chains was right the fact that the handling of attacks with [poison] in the user interface is wrong. Wesnoth actually discouraged people from using poisoned attacks - it thought that poisoned attack is worse than non-poisoned :)
20090327 21:00:11< mordante> did chains post a bug report?
20090327 21:00:23< silene> Crab_: did you or he find where the bug comes from?
20090327 21:00:25< Crab_> no. I have a patch
20090327 21:01:22< Crab_> https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1144
20090327 21:02:05-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@66.189.40.122] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 21:02:43< silene> Crab_: how come the text of your report is so ugly?
20090327 21:02:55< Crab_> sorry, refresh the page
20090327 21:03:15< Crab_> silene, copypasted from pastebin
20090327 21:03:24< Crab_> i've added a 'normal' version )
20090327 21:03:27< cjhopman> mordante: https://gna.org/patch/?1141
20090327 21:05:52< cjhopman> its sweep2.patch
20090327 21:06:04< CIA-30> mordante * r34189 /trunk/ (cmake/update_pot_source_dependencies.cmake po/CMakeLists.txt): Add new experimental version of the pot-update.
20090327 21:06:36< Soliton> Crab_: good catch. feel free to commit, i'd say. :-)
20090327 21:06:45< silene> haha, the poison failure is again a suokko's thing; i guess some patches were not reverted...
20090327 21:07:07< Soliton> ugh
20090327 21:07:21< Crab_> Soliton, ok, i'll do that today.
20090327 21:08:09< IneQuation> hi everyone
20090327 21:08:38< mordante> hi IneQuation 
20090327 21:08:50< IneQuation> I have a question regarding the gsoc proposals, are students expected to follow the application template strictly?
20090327 21:09:01< IneQuation> or is it just a loose set of guidelines?
20090327 21:09:33-!- fendrin [n=fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090327 21:10:47< silene> Crab_: please commit it to the 1.6 branch too
20090327 21:10:59< Crab_> ok
20090327 21:11:08< Soliton> hmm.
20090327 21:11:17< mordante> IneQuation, depends on which parts you want to divert
20090327 21:12:33< IneQuation> mordante: well, can I use another student's application to illustrate my question?
20090327 21:12:45< mordante> yes of course
20090327 21:12:53< Soliton> maybe we should remove the poison weight completely again or make it more complicated to also account for units immune to poison or with the 'healthy' trait (take less damage from poison)...
20090327 21:13:22< Crab_> Soliton: the poison weight is now set to 1. It takes into account "1 turn" of poison damage.
20090327 21:13:43< Crab_> Soliton: it doesn't take traits or immunities into account
20090327 21:13:55< Soliton> yeah, that's my point. :-)
20090327 21:14:03< mordante> cjhopman, I normally run -O0 I can test with -O2 but will take a while to rebuild
20090327 21:14:11< Soliton> so it can lead to worse decisions.
20090327 21:14:29< IneQuation> mordante: do you expect applications in this form: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeProposal_rubend or rather written from scratch, answering the questions but in with freedom as to its form left up to the student?
20090327 21:14:43< IneQuation> -in
20090327 21:16:05< Soliton> Crab_: if it's easy i think it'd be important to at least account for poison immune units.
20090327 21:16:17< ilor> IneQuation: last year quite a few people followe the general idea but wrote normal text instead of one sentecne per point
20090327 21:16:46< Crab_> Soliton: that is in another piece of code (this piece of code just takes 'chance to the enemy to get poisoned' from combat and uses it)
20090327 21:16:55< mordante> IneQuation, both for example one of last year http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Map_Editor_Ilor
20090327 21:16:59< silene> Crab_, Soliton: it does take into account immunity
20090327 21:17:13< Soliton> ah, alright then.
20090327 21:17:26< Crab_> silene: ok then. thanks for clarifying.
20090327 21:17:39< mordante> seems ilor was faster ;-)
20090327 21:17:39< wesbot> mordante: Sometimes we are fast
20090327 21:17:58< mordante> thanks wesbot :-|
20090327 21:18:05< cjhopman> mordante:  If you can find time to test it sometime I'd appreciate it, but there's no real hurry.
20090327 21:18:22< IneQuation> ilor, mordante: thanks, that makes it clear :)
20090327 21:18:36< cjhopman>  Just leave a message in the patch thread (or here) with some results and system info if you do 
20090327 21:19:19< ilor> mordante: sigh, msvc's debugger was not helpful. here goes gdb...
20090327 21:21:15-!- difenil [n=chatzill@mih059a.halls.manchester.ac.uk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 21:21:49< difenil> is the addons server working?
20090327 21:22:04< difenil> I tried uploading an era and it says network communication error
20090327 21:27:17< ilor> mordante: how do I access the actual class of an object in gdb?
20090327 21:28:25< mordante> IIRC you can do cstyle cast on objects in gdb
20090327 21:29:42-!- cjhopman_ [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 21:30:03< ilor> mordante: ah, it didn't like extra parens around the variable
20090327 21:30:15< ilor> so (foo*)(bar) didn'r fly, but (foo*)bar did
20090327 21:30:31-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090327 21:30:43< ilor> mordante: http://rafb.net/p/bIXUF412.html
20090327 21:31:20< ilor> it's what's in the textbox, I did press 'a' until it threw
20090327 21:31:30< ilor> so the 31 a's bit is accurate
20090327 21:31:36-!- kitty_ [n=kitty@wesnoth/artist/kitty] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 21:32:36< loonycyborg> ilor: I wonder whether gdb works on debug binaries produced by msvc and vice versa?
20090327 21:32:43-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 21:32:47< ilor> loonycyborg: never tried
20090327 21:33:40< ilor> loonycyborg: not surprisingly, gdb says "(no debugging symbols found)"
20090327 21:34:14< Soliton> difenil: yes, works fine.
20090327 21:34:48< loonycyborg> And naturally msvc's debugger doesn't find debug symbols in msvc binaries?
20090327 21:34:49< difenil> k, thx
20090327 21:35:42< loonycyborg> mingw's binaries that is
20090327 21:35:53< mordante> ilor, and this version crashes as well I assume?
20090327 21:36:23< ilor> mordante: yes this is from a throw catchpoint
20090327 21:36:57< mordante> the problem I see is maximum_width_ = 240 rect_ = {x = 0, y = 0, width = 248, height = 16}
20090327 21:37:09< mordante> so the maximum size is not honoured
20090327 21:38:21< fabi> Soliton: Does not work, are you sure that this attribute is still recognized by the engine?
20090327 21:38:53< Soliton> fabi: yes, but as i said no one uses it.
20090327 21:40:22< zookeeper> mordante, i have no particular opinion on the village income FR. sounds a bit unnecessary for anything but more elaborate mods.
20090327 21:40:34< fabi> Soliton: Even if it would work, the dwarve is not put to that teams and that would confuse the player. And I don't know how I can switch the dwarves team in an event. The original FR is more likely to be usefull.
20090327 21:41:18< Soliton> fabi: if it contains some useful information about how it should work and doesn't ask to abuse team_name, yes.
20090327 21:43:38< fabi> Soliton: what do you mean by "abuse team_name" ?
20090327 21:43:55< zookeeper> fabi, what problem are you having?
20090327 21:44:11< fabi> https://gna.org/bugs/?12776
20090327 21:44:16 * zookeeper almost asked "what's your problem?" first, but figured it'd not be taken in a good manner
20090327 21:44:48< fabi> That feature could be used to define neutral sides for example.
20090327 21:45:13< orian_> how can I found some string in all files in directory?
20090327 21:45:39< zookeeper> fabi, sure, i think engine support for multiple team names would be good, but in the meantime there's a NEUTRAL_SIDE macro in utils.cfg
20090327 21:45:41< fabi> zookeeper: soliton suggested to move a undocumented attribute [side]enemy=side_list 
20090327 21:46:09< fabi> s/move/use
20090327 21:46:32< zookeeper> sure, if it works. i don't know if it will.
20090327 21:46:43< fabi> no it doesn't 
20090327 21:47:05< fabi> even if it would it's not what I am looking for.
20090327 21:48:05< zookeeper> well, feel free to write an FR for team_name= being able to contain a comma-separated list of teams the side belongs to. that's quite a long-standing little FR no one has ever properly filed, i think.
20090327 21:49:11< mordante> ok zookeeper 
20090327 21:49:30< mordante> ilor, I can't see something wrong in the code, can you test this patch? http://paste.debian.net/31705/
20090327 21:51:20< zookeeper> sigh, i really hope flameslash/waterslash would do something really obnoxious on the forums so we could just ban them and not endure all those lame era ideas.
20090327 21:51:34< zookeeper> "Story: Men, Elves, Orcs, Dwarves and Monsters share a world, but they are weak. They must upgrade."
20090327 21:51:45< zookeeper> "The Men start to build one great Empire, but many don't join. The Elves start to form another great Empire, but not all join. The Orcs and Dwarves form into many Clans, but some don't join any. The ones who don't join anything form Outlaw gangs."
20090327 21:51:47< zookeeper> -.-
20090327 21:52:56< Soliton> i don't think overloading team_name with a list of allies is a good idea.
20090327 21:53:30< zookeeper> really, why?
20090327 21:53:51< zookeeper> not that i doubt that there might be a good reason
20090327 21:54:16< Blueblaze> zookeeper: That sounds like a fantastic idea *gets busy on making a fun version of it*
20090327 21:54:24< Soliton> well, for starters what team do you chat to? do you set labels for?
20090327 21:55:15< Soliton> maybe using the first team in the list as default could work though.
20090327 21:55:23< zookeeper> i guess all of them
20090327 21:56:09< zookeeper> but yeah, it could get rather unintuitive since people of different teams who'd reply via team chat couldn't see each other's messages
20090327 21:56:35< ilor> mordante: got the assert when clicking on "multiplayer"
20090327 21:56:39< ilor> mordante: Width 0 maximum -1 maximum set in pango -1 ellipse 3.
20090327 21:58:17-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit ["leaving"]
20090327 21:58:18< mordante> maximum -1 shouldn't be trapped :-/
20090327 21:58:38< mordante> can you test with if(maximum_width != -1 && rect_.width > maximum_width_) {
20090327 21:58:52< mordante> s/maximum_width/maximum_width_/
20090327 22:00:09< Soliton> looks like team_name is always set so enemy can not take effect.
20090327 22:00:38< ilor> mordante: on it
20090327 22:01:25< ilor> mordante: assert fired before the exception, Width 248 maximum 240 maximum set in pango 245760 ellipse 1.
20090327 22:01:34< zookeeper> an exemplary forum post: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=347733#p347733
20090327 22:01:50< fabi> zookeeper, Soliton: I can imagine a solution that should work in multiplayer. But it's more a feature for campaign play and should work well there.
20090327 22:03:00< mordante> I expected the assert before the exception ;-)
20090327 22:03:36< mordante> I didn't expect "pango 245760" but "pango 240"
20090327 22:03:57< grzywacz> So... I've been playing TSG yesterday and won the first 4 scenarios without recruiting a single unit. ;-)
20090327 22:04:05-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 22:04:09< grzywacz> I wonder if this will continue today. :D
20090327 22:04:26< zookeeper> grzywacz, whoever named the easiest difficulty "easy" wasn't kidding ;)
20090327 22:04:38< Soliton> fabi: then don't overload keys that are used in multiplayer or explain your solution.
20090327 22:04:39< zookeeper> i hope that's what you play on :p
20090327 22:04:51< mordante> ilor, what's PANGO_SCALE for you?
20090327 22:04:58< grzywacz> zookeeper, yes ;)
20090327 22:05:05< zookeeper> uh oh, it's civilian/beginner, not easy.
20090327 22:05:07< mordante> that explains the different number of course
20090327 22:05:09< ilor> mordante: where do I check it?
20090327 22:05:17< grzywacz> zookeeper, either way it is the easiest difficulty
20090327 22:05:26< mordante> does gdb know it?
20090327 22:05:37< grzywacz> zookeeper, it's like "get to enemy leader and hammer him to death with your heroes" ;-)
20090327 22:05:37< zookeeper> grzywacz, wasn't the second scenario pretty tough without recruiting? or do you mean that you still recalled everyone?
20090327 22:05:46< grzywacz> zookeeper, no, trivial
20090327 22:05:55< grzywacz> zookeeper, I recalled 1 unit in 4th
20090327 22:06:06< zookeeper> huh.
20090327 22:06:15< grzywacz> zookeeper, undead are not a problem. mage + water.
20090327 22:06:20< grzywacz> zookeeper, and I rushed the keep with Deoran
20090327 22:06:23-!- Baufo [n=thomas@wesnoth/developer/baufo] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090327 22:06:26< grzywacz> so I got him in like 3rd turn
20090327 22:06:55< zookeeper> right
20090327 22:06:58< grzywacz> 3rd scenario... again, Deoran rushed the keep, won.
20090327 22:07:18 * fabi imagines that communicating per default with a neutral side that is also neutral to your enemy is a security risk. So chating should always default to those allies that are not on several teams. If you want to chat to a neutral side you have to name the player explicitely. There could also be an chat channel that includes neutral sides.
20090327 22:07:31< grzywacz> Actually, the best idea would be to save 1 peasant in 2nd scenario, so that he can get killed in 4th and cause the guards to appear
20090327 22:07:34< grzywacz> ;-)
20090327 22:07:52< mordante> ilor, never mind I found the factor and the 240 * 1024 == 245760
20090327 22:07:59< ilor> :)
20090327 22:08:01< Shadow_Master>  <mordante> Shadow_Master, what's the idea behind r34170 you increase the
20090327 22:08:08< Shadow_Master> header dependencies without any reason why" <- ???
20090327 22:08:15< ilor> gdb didn't know it btw, must be in some namespace or sth
20090327 22:08:24< Shadow_Master> shikadibot: log 34170
20090327 22:08:26< shikadibot> Revision 34170 (shadowmaster, 2009-03-26 23:27:25 +0000 (Thu, 26 Mar 2009)):
20090327 22:08:30< shikadibot> Get rid of a silly forward declaration of class version_info and drag
20090327 22:08:32< shikadibot> version.hpp with game_config.hpp instead.
20090327 22:08:35< shikadibot> Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=34170
20090327 22:09:07< mordante> Shadow_Master, I read that, but what's silly on forward declarations?
20090327 22:09:22< grzywacz> I've been wondering as well...
20090327 22:09:24< Shadow_Master> mordante: ah yeah. It's stupid IMO to request users of header A.hpp to include header B.hpp so it A.hpp doesn't break, and I used it only for reducing full rebuilds while testing that stuff back then
20090327 22:09:47< mordante> which is good in general
20090327 22:09:51< Shadow_Master> and it doesn't matter anyway. The extra dependency isn't a heavy one.
20090327 22:10:05< mordante> I've been working quite a bit to reduce the dependency
20090327 22:10:34< mordante> Shadow_Master, it _does_ matter if you now change version,hpp most of wesnoth gets recompiled for no good reason
20090327 22:11:23< Shadow_Master> mordante: yeah, but it won't change :)
20090327 22:11:38< Shadow_Master> at least not in 1.6 at all.
20090327 22:11:51< mordante> sorry but that's the most stupid remark I ever heard :-|
20090327 22:12:08< Shadow_Master> okay. do what you please wiht it.
20090327 22:12:26< mordante> you only did it for 1.6?
20090327 22:12:32< Polarina> Why have the option "Compressed Saves" instead of just compressing all saves? (And why not use LZMA instead of zlib?)
20090327 22:12:43< Shadow_Master> mordante: what makes you think that?
20090327 22:12:55< mordante> what?
20090327 22:13:09< Shadow_Master> 22:12 <mordante> you only did it for 1.6?
20090327 22:13:09-!- KnightR [n=anonymou@bb219-74-177-1.singnet.com.sg] has quit []
20090327 22:13:38< mordante> Shadow_Master> at least not in 1.6 at all.
20090327 22:13:58< Shadow_Master> "it won't change" + "at least not in 1.6 at all."
20090327 22:14:18< loonycyborg> Polarina: Because Boost.Iostreams doesn't support lzma AFAIK
20090327 22:14:36< Polarina> loonycyborg: Ok. But what about simply removing the "Compressed Saves" option?
20090327 22:15:04-!- West_ [n=West@hd5e2754c.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 22:15:08< Shadow_Master> mordante: I am not modifying version.hpp again unless I introduce a feature. Which, of course,cannot be done in 1.6
20090327 22:15:28-!- ryochan7 [n=ryochan7@173.9.238.161] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 22:15:37< mordante> there might be a bug that forces a change :-|
20090327 22:15:45< loonycyborg> Polarina: And what? Have them always compressed or always uncompressed?
20090327 22:15:51< Shadow_Master> mordante: in the interface? :O
20090327 22:15:58< Polarina> loonycyborg: Always compressed, of course.
20090327 22:16:07< mordante> unlikely but might happen
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20090327 22:16:19< Shadow_Master> and, again, what's the problem with that?
20090327 22:16:20< mordante> ilor, it seems like a pango bug
20090327 22:17:00< mordante> Shadow_Master, that if forces to recompile half of Wesnoth without good reason
20090327 22:17:15< loonycyborg> Polarina: Maybe that's for windows users who need to hack on saved games?
20090327 22:17:27< Shadow_Master> mordante: and that would be highly unlikely to happen
20090327 22:17:32< ilor> Shadow_Master: wesnoth is plagued by peculiar header dependencies, like how modyfing hotkeys forces a rebuild of the AI or something. Having less of those is better.
20090327 22:17:39< mordante> I would have expected you, who always complains about recompilations, to not try to add more places which could cause a recompilation :-/
20090327 22:17:54< Polarina> loonycyborg: If a user has enough knowledge to hack saved games, he probably also possess the knowledge required to uncompress the saved game.
20090327 22:18:16< mordante> loonycyborg, would it be possible to compile Wesnoth for Windows with a newer pango version
20090327 22:18:47< loonycyborg> mordante: Yes. If there is one :)
20090327 22:19:18< mordante> "<Shadow_Master> okay. do what you please wiht it. " I'll revert it
20090327 22:19:39< Shadow_Master> no need to notify me. I won't object unless you start changing the interface without a good reason.
20090327 22:20:07-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
20090327 22:20:08< mordante> I don't plan to but I want to avoid header dependencies for no good reason
20090327 22:20:14< Soliton> Polarina: we used to have a custom compression format. now that we use gzip i guess we can indeed reasonably expect people to uncompress saves on their own.
20090327 22:20:35< mordante> I don't understand why forward declarations are ugly but pulling in the universe isn't 
20090327 22:20:47< Polarina> Soliton: That's my point.
20090327 22:21:04< Shadow_Master> mordante: version.hpp == universe??
20090327 22:21:23< Shadow_Master> I had no idea it carried so many dependencies of its own, really 
20090327 22:21:50< ilor> Shadow_Master: if a header gets indirectly included in everything and doesn't need to, it's better to use a fwd decl
20090327 22:21:52< Soliton> Polarina: i didn't mean to take it away from you.
20090327 22:22:04< Polarina> Soliton: No problem. :)
20090327 22:22:07< mordante> instead of one .cpp file depending on it now a header depends on it
20090327 22:22:31< mordante> and this header is pulled in by team.hpp and thus by a lot of .cpp files
20090327 22:22:36< mordante> I see that as the universe
20090327 22:23:07< Polarina> Soliton: So, what does it take to get it removed?
20090327 22:23:09< Shadow_Master> ah, a different direction.
20090327 22:23:15< mordante> so instead of recompiling a few files if the header changes, most of Wesnoth gets recompiled
20090327 22:23:17< CIA-30> esr * r34190 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/images/story/ (Thoria.jpeg Thoria0.jpeg hostmountains.jpeg snow.jpeg): Remove unused and not house-style-compatibe photos.
20090327 22:23:39< Polarina> Eww! JPEG.
20090327 22:23:45< Polarina> Someone replace these with PNGs.
20090327 22:23:58< Shadow_Master> Polarina: read again. they were removed.
20090327 22:24:12< Shadow_Master> and no, you really don't want to use > 3 MB PNGs a lot :P
20090327 22:24:14< Polarina> Shadow_Master: Oh...
20090327 22:24:24< Polarina> Shadow_Master: Heard of optipng?
20090327 22:24:34< Shadow_Master> Polarina: I maintain a script for it
20090327 22:24:39< Polarina> o.O
20090327 22:24:52< Shadow_Master> therefore I am aware that it doesn't optimize complex images well. :/
20090327 22:25:08< loonycyborg> Polarina: On compressed saves: I have no idea why there's such option. Ask Sirp perhaps?
20090327 22:25:09< Polarina> PNG just doesn't handle complex images well...
20090327 22:25:20< Polarina> loonycyborg: Ok.
20090327 22:25:24< mordante> loonycyborg, does that mean there's no newer version for Windows?
20090327 22:26:07< loonycyborg> mordante: I've checked on gtk.org. There is a newer 'bundle' than I'm ysing currently.
20090327 22:26:15< loonycyborg> *using
20090327 22:26:19< Polarina> I have a 1024x768 sized screenshot of Wesnoth and it's size is 1,4 MiB after going through "optipng -o7 -zm1-9"
20090327 22:27:42< loonycyborg> mordante: To which compilation you're referring? Windows releases or on the server?
20090327 22:28:27< mordante> Windows release I suspect a problem in Wesnoth to be caused by a buggy pango
20090327 22:28:52< Shadow_Master> Polarina: multiply that by the amount of story jpegs we have.
20090327 22:29:18 * Polarina still thinks JPEG is evil, no matter the size advantage.
20090327 22:29:25< Polarina> I've even seen PNGs smaller than JPEGs.
20090327 22:30:00< loonycyborg> In some situation even RLE is better than JPEG :P
20090327 22:30:07 * esr likes PNG, too.
20090327 22:30:07< Smar> jpeg is release format, when you need to release something that has small size(website graphics, for one)
20090327 22:30:17< loonycyborg> *situations
20090327 22:30:22< Smar> if you store something, jpeg is no go...
20090327 22:30:23 * esr used to be a pnglib maintainer
20090327 22:30:29< Shadow_Master> we know! :D
20090327 22:30:34< Smar> we don’t.
20090327 22:30:38< Shadow_Master> and the official name is libpng btw :p
20090327 22:30:49< esr> I always forget...
20090327 22:30:57< Smar> good maintainer.
20090327 22:30:59< Smar> ->
20090327 22:31:16< Polarina> xD
20090327 22:31:19< Shadow_Master> I'll go to fix a bug in the weston markup language engine
20090327 22:31:31< Polarina> XML is good too. :)
20090327 22:31:40< Shadow_Master> eh. no.
20090327 22:31:49< Polarina> Shadow_Master: Please explain.
20090327 22:31:53< mordante> XML is great just not for Wesnoth :-P
20090327 22:32:45< Shadow_Master> Polarina: put it this way. C++ is good, but the Linux kernel won't be rewritten in C++ by its mainline develoeprs
20090327 22:33:47< loonycyborg> Because it's just easier to rewrite it from scratch in C++ :P
20090327 22:34:03< Shadow_Master> thanks for the über insightful comment, loony :)
20090327 22:36:09< Polarina> Google tells me nothing...
20090327 22:36:16< loonycyborg> There already are OSes written in C++: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L4_microkernel_family
20090327 22:37:17< Polarina> Shadow_Master: Since when did C++ become good?
20090327 22:37:27< Shadow_Master> it's good for me.
20090327 22:37:34< loonycyborg> And for me.
20090327 22:37:40< Shadow_Master> The point is, that if you chose a language as the foundation of your program, and this program is now multi-hundreds-of-thousands lines, you don't want to rewrite it all of a sudden.
20090327 22:37:50< Polarina> Ok, I understand.
20090327 22:38:02< Shadow_Master> more over, when you and your devs feel comfortable with the current conventions, you don't want ot break them either.
20090327 22:38:04< Polarina> But what was the reason behind designing a special markup language instead of using XML?
20090327 22:38:12< Polarina> In the beginning, that is.
20090327 22:38:15< Shadow_Master> yes. Sirp hated XML :P
20090327 22:38:25< Polarina> Shadow_Master: That's it?
20090327 22:38:29< loonycyborg> Sirp was fed up with XML hype.
20090327 22:38:35< ilor> Polarina: macros, better attribute syntax I'd say off the top of my head
20090327 22:38:56< Polarina> I can understand macros, but what do you mean with better attribute syntax?
20090327 22:39:22< Shadow_Master> <foo blah="ddd"> random text that doesn't make sense the way Wesnoth works </foo>
20090327 22:39:32< ilor> xml: <foo bar="baz" baz="bar">
20090327 22:39:38< Shadow_Master> [foo] blah=$($ddd+4*5) [/foo]
20090327 22:39:45< Polarina> o.O
20090327 22:39:50< ilor> wml: [foo]bar=baz baz=bar[/foo]
20090327 22:40:00< Shadow_Master> you can do actually powerful things with WML that vanilla XML doesn't provide
20090327 22:40:12< ilor> Polarina: with many attributes the xml version is very unwieldy
20090327 22:40:36< Polarina> I see.
20090327 22:40:51< Polarina> But for other things than Wesnoth, XML is superior, right? :P
20090327 22:41:15< silene> Shadow_Master: formulas are a bad example; nothing prevents you from having them in xml too
20090327 22:41:27< ilor> Polarina: not really, no, at least imo
20090327 22:41:36< Polarina> ilor: o.O
20090327 22:41:37< Shadow_Master> silene: I know. But in WML they are a bit more nautrally handled due to the vconfig class
20090327 22:41:52< Shadow_Master> silene: I guess you'd be able to do it in XML by using a non-vanilla parser
20090327 22:42:17< silene> Shadow_Master: that's irrelevant; and the vconfig class is not linked to the parser, you could it with xml too
20090327 22:42:22< silene> +use
20090327 22:42:50< Shadow_Master> true. how about gettext?
20090327 22:45:38< loonycyborg> mordante: What's the way to repro the suspected pango bug you've told me about?
20090327 22:45:54< silene> Shadow_Master: that's a better example; but again, it could have been achieved with xml
20090327 22:46:44< mordante> loonycyborg, http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24583
20090327 22:47:00< silene> (note that wml was not deisgned with gettext in mind, it was a pain for me to add later on)
20090327 22:50:08< CIA-30> esr * r34191 /trunk/data/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Bad art removal, requested by kitty.
20090327 22:51:08< Shadow_Master> silene: :)
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20090327 22:58:37< Shadow_Master> bye.
20090327 23:03:24< esr> Oh, *FUCK* that's hilarious. There's a Google project aiming at a 5x speedup of Python...called (drum roll, please) "Unladen Swallow"
20090327 23:04:11 * loonycyborg yawns
20090327 23:04:16< loonycyborg> old news :P
20090327 23:04:29< dfranke> esr: yeah I saw that
20090327 23:04:43< dfranke> I didn't see a link to any actual code though.
20090327 23:04:49< esr> Best laugh I've had in weeks.
20090327 23:05:20< dfranke> a 5x speedup seems pretty ambitious, given that PyPy already does native code compilation without nearly that much benefit.
20090327 23:05:21< Ivanovic> for all SoC students: do not forget to submit your proposal into the google tracker
20090327 23:05:54< Ivanovic> if your proposals are not in this database, you can not become an SoC student for wesnoth, even if you got a (beside this) perfect project proposal
20090327 23:06:37< ilor> Ivanovic: there's a week left, right?
20090327 23:06:56< Ivanovic> ilor: yes
20090327 23:07:07< Ivanovic> ilor: i just want to make sure that noone misses it
20090327 23:08:35< CIA-30> thespaceinvader * r34192 /trunk/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Add and wire Kitty's Trapper portrait, update changelogs, portrait credits.
20090327 23:08:57< loonycyborg> dfranke: In addition they want to get rid of GIL :)
20090327 23:09:25< dfranke> loonycyborg: GIL = Giant Interpreter Lock?
20090327 23:09:38< esr> dfranke: Yes.
20090327 23:09:52-!- YogiHH [n=chatzill@c174201.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090327 23:10:20< dfranke> eh.  There's already Stackless for that.
20090327 23:11:50-!- fabi is now known as fendrin
20090327 23:11:52< CIA-30> thespaceinvader * r34193 /branches/1.6/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Add and wire Kitty's Trapper portrait, update changelogs, portrait credits.
20090327 23:13:57< CIA-30> mordante * r34194 /branches/1.6/src/ (game.cpp game_config.cpp game_config.hpp): 
20090327 23:13:57< CIA-30> Revert r34170 and r34172.
20090327 23:13:57< CIA-30> There's no use to increase the header dependency.
20090327 23:14:03< CIA-30> mordante * r34195 /trunk/src/ (game.cpp game_config.cpp game_config.hpp): 
20090327 23:14:03< CIA-30> Revert r34173.
20090327 23:14:03< CIA-30> There's no use to increase the header dependency.
20090327 23:22:46< loonycyborg> mordante: I've managed to reproduce that crash under wine.
20090327 23:23:22< mordante> with which version of pango?
20090327 23:23:54< loonycyborg> With the same as I'm using for release.
20090327 23:24:54< mordante> wine windows reproduced bug for bug ;-)
20090327 23:25:08< loonycyborg> Recompiling agains pango 1.24.0 now.
20090327 23:25:15< loonycyborg> *against
20090327 23:25:22< mordante> great, I'll wait for that result
20090327 23:25:41< loonycyborg> mordante: And the binary was cross-compiled too :)
20090327 23:26:15-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20090327 23:31:38< CIA-30> mordante * r34196 /trunk/CMakeLists.txt: Update the cmake todo list.
20090327 23:31:42< mordante> Ivanovic, ^
20090327 23:32:16< Ivanovic> nice
20090327 23:32:47< Ivanovic> will have a look at some of this stuff "once i got time for it" (tm)
20090327 23:33:15< Ivanovic> that is: the translation files should just be generated in cmake_current_binary_dir or something like this instead of source_dir
20090327 23:33:43< mordante> yes it shouldn't be hard just want to make sure I don't forget it
20090327 23:33:50< Ivanovic> :)
20090327 23:34:08< mordante> I 'fixed' it for me by copying the files from an autotools processed directory
20090327 23:34:22< Ivanovic> :)
20090327 23:35:58< Polarina> :)
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20090327 23:42:11< loonycyborg> mordante: Still getting "wine: Unhandled privileged instruction at address 0xe7f0ae (thread 0009)"
20090327 23:44:19< mordante> which is the exception being thrown?
20090327 23:45:17< loonycyborg> There's no exception thrown. Perhaps its a wine bug.
20090327 23:45:32< loonycyborg> I'll need to try it natively.
20090327 23:45:34< CIA-30> mordante * r34197 /trunk/CMakeLists.txt: Make pkg-config optionally, depending on the game.
20090327 23:45:51< mordante> might be, there's an exception under Windows that causes the dialog to be shown
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20090327 23:51:20 * YogiHH finally understood that n_unit != nunit :-)
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20090327 23:57:42-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
--- Log closed Sat Mar 28 00:00:01 2009