--- Log opened Fri Mar 20 00:07:22 2009
20090320 00:07:22-!- lobby [n=wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 00:18:25< happygrue> _jbx_: ok, on my way
20090320 00:19:23< happygrue> noy: ready
20090320 00:19:48< noy> 1.4/?
20090320 00:20:21< _jbx_> ok, what is the plan?
20090320 00:21:27< noy> 1.4
20090320 00:21:34< happygrue> I had thoguht to finsih, was there another?
20090320 00:22:17-!- Sirp [n=me@wesnoth/developer/dave] has quit ["leaving"]
20090320 00:53:34-!- _jbx_ [i=_jbx_@c-67-173-71-233.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit []
20090320 00:56:19-!- vjoe [n=vjoe@hh088c.halls.manchester.ac.uk] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
20090320 01:15:38-!- tesa [n=tesa__@p5B275E27.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Verlassend"]
20090320 01:31:09-!- Thrawn [n=chatzill@pool-71-126-232-234.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 01:31:13-!- Dragonking [n=dk@wesnoth/developer/dragonking] has quit []
20090320 01:32:10-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit ["To err is human.. but to really foul things up requires a computer"]
20090320 01:32:24-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 02:14:08-!- Sirp [n=me@wesnoth/developer/dave] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 02:16:43-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090320 02:17:46-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 02:18:12-!- Shadow_Master_ [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 02:18:43-!- Shadow_Master_ [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Client Quit]
20090320 02:19:10-!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 02:24:14-!- voris [n=voris@c-24-16-107-149.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 02:28:23-!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit []
20090320 02:29:09-!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 02:38:48-!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit []
20090320 02:39:00-!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 02:43:53-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit []
20090320 02:45:15-!- Shadow_Master [n=shadowm@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit []
20090320 02:46:51-!- shadowmaster [n=1001@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 02:48:19< shadowmaster> this channel is logged now? :( there it goes, the only channel where Turuk and I could talk about forumers without getting discovered by them
20090320 02:50:21-!- shadowmaster [n=1001@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit ["Reconnecting"]
20090320 02:50:26-!- shadowmaster [n=1001@190.22.120.230] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 02:52:49-!- shadowmaster [n=1001@190.22.120.230] has quit [Client Quit]
20090320 02:54:52-!- shadowmaster [n=1001@190.22.120.230] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 02:56:09-!- shadowmaster [n=1001@190.22.120.230] has quit [Client Quit]
20090320 03:06:56-!- shadowmaster [n=1001@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 03:37:10-!- shadowmaster [n=1001@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090320 04:15:16-!- happygrue [n=George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit ["http://xkcd.com/91/"]
20090320 04:44:23-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 04:45:55-!- Blueblaze_ [n=Blueblaz@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 04:52:37-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090320 05:27:33-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090320 05:34:10-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 06:23:42-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090320 06:23:57-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 07:01:26-!- Thrawn [n=chatzill@pool-71-126-232-234.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090320 07:01:46-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 07:24:04-!- Sirp [n=me@wesnoth/developer/dave] has quit ["leaving"]
20090320 07:33:23-!- wildpenguin [n=chpln@ppp121-45-47-44.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 08:04:34-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 08:11:38-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090320 08:29:11-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 08:31:28-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090320 08:36:40-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090320 08:44:21-!- Blueblaze_ [n=Blueblaz@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit []
20090320 09:03:52-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit []
20090320 10:23:41-!- zookeeper [n=l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 11:49:48-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 11:59:53-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090320 12:00:03-!- wildpenguin [n=chpln@ppp121-45-47-44.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090320 12:58:26-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 13:49:47-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090320 14:03:14-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 14:33:26-!- happygrue [n=George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 14:51:03-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit ["class"]
20090320 17:26:42-!- Blueblaze_ [n=Blueblaz@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 17:31:41-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 17:32:58-!- _jbx_ [i=_jbx_@c-67-173-71-233.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 17:57:09-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090320 17:58:56-!- Blueblaze__ [n=Blueblaz@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 17:59:22-!- Blueblaze_ [n=Blueblaz@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090320 18:05:35-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 18:07:52-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 18:11:19-!- Blueblaze_ [n=Blueblaz@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 18:11:48-!- Blueblaze__ [n=Blueblaz@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090320 18:17:26-!- Noyga [n=lame-z@wesnoth/developer/noyga] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 18:17:37-!- Noyga [n=lame-z@wesnoth/developer/noyga] has quit [Client Quit]
20090320 18:22:39-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit ["3"]
20090320 18:40:16-!- Baufo [n=thomas@wesnoth/developer/baufo] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 18:50:27-!- Sirp [n=me@wesnoth/developer/dave] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 18:56:17< Baufo> what do you think about this for a start? http://imagebin.org/42110 
20090320 18:56:32< Baufo> (especially the way the buttons are arranged in the gui)
20090320 18:57:58-!- vjoe [n=vjoe@hh088c.halls.manchester.ac.uk] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 19:16:30< Baufo> Soliton, is the 1.6 server deliberately running without nick registration?
20090320 19:19:33-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
20090320 19:20:13-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 19:20:23-!- mordante [n=mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 19:41:34< zookeeper> since i don't know how those checkboxes in that picture are supposed to work, it might be worth noting that i don't find it very intuitive.
20090320 19:42:02< zookeeper> my guess is that you check whatever boxes on the right you want, and then if you check the left box the filtering gets applied to the list
20090320 19:44:50-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 19:47:16< Baufo> zookeeper, that's correct
20090320 19:47:50< Baufo> what system would you find more intuitive?
20090320 19:52:17-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090320 19:56:07< zookeeper> Baufo, maybe a "display only:" dropdown menu
20090320 19:56:27< zookeeper> or just removing the "apply filter" checkbox
20090320 19:57:33< zookeeper> actually the latter would be just fine. i don't see why you'd need a separate checkbox for applying or unapplying the others.
20090320 19:58:19< zookeeper> you just need to clearly group those checkboxes under some "only show games with:" label
20090320 19:59:58< Baufo> hmm, this label would eat up a lot of valueable space
20090320 20:00:13-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 20:00:25< Baufo> aren't tooltips enough?
20090320 20:00:55< zookeeper> yes, but not as good
20090320 20:01:01< Baufo> I agree
20090320 20:01:06< zookeeper> besides there's all that horizontal space to use
20090320 20:01:41< Baufo> I actually plan to use this space on more filter options
20090320 20:01:44< zookeeper> and there's enough vertical space in your mockup to put the boxes on top of each other too
20090320 20:01:46< zookeeper> oh, right
20090320 20:02:31< happygrue> Baufo: it looks like a good start
20090320 20:02:36< Baufo> btw, that's no mockup :)
20090320 20:02:42< happygrue> I noticed that ;)
20090320 20:02:42< Baufo> it's working already, actually
20090320 20:02:55< happygrue> I wonder if it should just filter when checking the boxes?
20090320 20:03:06< happygrue> or is a separate step needed?
20090320 20:03:17< Baufo> I don't quite understand
20090320 20:03:19< zookeeper> no separate steps
20090320 20:03:33< happygrue> what the 'apply filter' box is?
20090320 20:03:44< zookeeper> the separate step
20090320 20:03:57< happygrue> or that is a different filter?
20090320 20:04:15< Baufo> no, currently filters only get applied if this box is checked too
20090320 20:04:21< happygrue> ah, I see
20090320 20:04:31< happygrue> right, that is what I was thinking
20090320 20:04:43< Baufo> I thought that would be useful once there are a few more filters available
20090320 20:04:48< happygrue> but I think it would be better to just filter as they are checked
20090320 20:04:54< zookeeper> well, how many are you thinking of having?
20090320 20:05:02< happygrue> and then maybe have a 'clear all' button on the right, or something
20090320 20:05:09< happygrue> perhaps so
20090320 20:05:29< zookeeper> unless it goes >6 which i very much doubt, no reason to have a separate apply thing IMO
20090320 20:05:33< happygrue> but if you are hunting, perhaps you just do one filter first, then another, then another
20090320 20:05:53< happygrue> so seeing the filters being applied might be useful functionality
20090320 20:05:55< happygrue> or not...
20090320 20:06:27< happygrue> but then having a 'clear' button, rather than 'apply filter' would be good.
20090320 20:07:03< Baufo> the apply filter box actually more or less is a clear button, just with the option to restore your settings
20090320 20:07:29< happygrue> that is true
20090320 20:07:46< happygrue> so if checked, then you could check filters and see them applied in the manner I was thinking anyway then?
20090320 20:07:56< Baufo> yes
20090320 20:08:09< happygrue> perhaps it should be checked by default then, but that seems ok.
20090320 20:08:30< happygrue> it seems that a drop down menu is not a good idea?
20090320 20:09:08< Baufo> you mean like, say, the right click menu in-game?
20090320 20:09:18< Baufo> where you can set things like delayed shroud updates
20090320 20:09:28< happygrue> I was thinking like the preferences menu, at the top of the screen
20090320 20:09:38< happygrue> drops down a list of filters which could be checked maybe
20090320 20:09:50< happygrue> not as nice maybe, but uses less space
20090320 20:10:03< happygrue> not sure if I like that idea or not anyway, just wondering
20090320 20:10:55-!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 20:11:12< Sirp> hi grzywacz 
20090320 20:11:19< Baufo> I discussed that with soliton yesterday and we basically agreed that that would probably be too cumbersome
20090320 20:11:37< Baufo> it was my original idea though
20090320 20:12:09< Baufo> one problem would be that you could easily forget that a filter is set
20090320 20:12:26< happygrue> Baufo: very true, I agree
20090320 20:13:23< happygrue> well, I think it looks good
20090320 20:13:54< happygrue> perhaps some testing will provide some alternative ideas, but it is a good start :)
20090320 20:14:42< grzywacz> hey Sirp!
20090320 20:14:57< Baufo> hmm, one more thing: what do you think about graying out the other boxes if 'apply filter' is not checked?
20090320 20:15:39< zookeeper> well, that or some other way to show that they're not doing anything atm.
20090320 20:16:49-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 20:17:28< happygrue> sure, graying out the boxes seems like a good idea to me.
20090320 20:24:04< happygrue> Baufo: two more thoughts:  1) perhaps a 'complement' filter would be useful?  So that when checked, the opposite of the filter is shown.  2) after the application of a string-match filter, perhaps coloring the matched text yellow (or something)?
20090320 20:24:20< happygrue> not sure if either of those things would really be useful, but maybe...
20090320 20:25:23< Baufo> hmm, I'll think about it
20090320 20:26:10< happygrue> most people would not use 1 I would imagine, but some users might use it a lot.  
20090320 20:26:53-!- Blueblaze_ [n=Blueblaz@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090320 20:27:03< Baufo> could you give me an example of a situation when 1) would be useful?
20090320 20:27:36< happygrue> games that do not contain a certian string
20090320 20:27:47< happygrue> looking for games without default era
20090320 20:27:51< happygrue> games that are not isars
20090320 20:28:01< Baufo> I see, that might be useful indeed
20090320 20:28:02< happygrue> it's not wildly useful perhaps
20090320 20:28:09< happygrue> for most users
20090320 20:28:19< happygrue> but I think some people might use it often... hard to say I guess
20090320 20:28:22< happygrue> it is an idea :)
20090320 20:30:22-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
20090320 20:30:36-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 20:33:56-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit []
20090320 20:51:48< happygrue> Baufo: are you a good person to bug about getting a checkbox to reduce the probability of 1v1 mirror matches?
20090320 20:51:56< happygrue> or who would be?
20090320 21:08:04< happygrue> Baufo: FR is here, if you get bored working on the game filtering... ;)      https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13228
20090320 21:17:13< Baufo> happygrue, I'm a semi-good person I suppose :)
20090320 21:17:35< Baufo> I'll have a look later
20090320 21:23:16< happygrue> Baufo: great, thanks
20090320 21:29:06-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit ["SIGPIPE"]
20090320 21:29:34-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 21:30:15-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Client Quit]
20090320 21:38:33-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 22:14:56-!- Baufo [n=thomas@wesnoth/developer/baufo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090320 22:15:59-!- Baufo [n=thomas@wesnoth/developer/baufo] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 22:35:31-!- Baufo [n=thomas@wesnoth/developer/baufo] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090320 22:48:41-!- Blueblaze_ [n=Blueblaz@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 22:53:13< zookeeper> so what happens if one player picks his faction and the other one takes random? still less prob of getting a mirror or not?
20090320 23:01:31< happygrue> ah, I forgot to mention my suggestion for that
20090320 23:01:53< happygrue> I think that this should only work in both-random situations
20090320 23:02:02< happygrue> if a player wants to pick, then all bets are off
20090320 23:02:14< happygrue> but a case could be made for the other way too
20090320 23:02:53< happygrue> I guess it partly depends on the code, and if that makes it much harder ;)
20090320 23:03:50< happygrue> I think that one player choosing a faction should not mean that the other player can't get it as random I guess, since that has the potential for (minor) abuse
20090320 23:07:36-!- Blueblaze_ [n=Blueblaz@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Success]
20090320 23:17:44-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090320 23:18:50-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 23:21:31-!- Sirp [n=me@wesnoth/developer/dave] has quit ["leaving"]
20090320 23:32:54-!- Blueblaze_ [n=Blueblaz@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 23:43:33-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090320 23:49:42-!- noy [n=Noy@70.70.128.133] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090320 23:50:37-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-mp
--- Log closed Sat Mar 21 00:00:58 2009