--- Log opened Wed Mar 25 00:00:34 2009
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20090325 00:46:14< happygrue> Soliton: probably becasue I screwed it up
20090325 00:46:25< happygrue> er, maybe not
20090325 00:47:45< Soliton> well, it had controller=human from the start but side 5 was still added on later.. i don't really know how it's supposed to work. maybe ask paterson about it.
20090325 00:48:42< happygrue> well, I 'fixed' a bug where it was called a 4p map - I had no idea that it was 4 players and a computer, because when I loaded it to test it, it had all 5 players local...
20090325 00:48:46< happygrue> I didn't know it had an AI
20090325 00:49:03< happygrue> I guess I should
20090325 00:49:05< happygrue> ?
20090325 00:49:09< happygrue> that makes no sense to me...
20090325 00:50:34< happygrue> what a bizarre map 
20090325 00:51:44< happygrue> Soliton: I'm not really sure what to do about it, since it seems broken in 1.6 anyway
20090325 00:52:26< happygrue> since there is nothing in the description about side 5, unsuspecting players would probably fill all 5 sides ... and then what I am not sure
20090325 00:52:43< Soliton> well, ask paterson.
20090325 00:52:44< happygrue> I'll PM doc and see what he says I guess.
20090325 00:52:46< happygrue> ok
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20090325 11:55:44< zookeeper> Soliton, are you up to fixing some more weapon special filtering problems?
20090325 11:56:17< zookeeper> (i'll file a report when i get a clear test case working..)
20090325 12:24:49< zookeeper> it looks like active_on= is ignored when deciding whether the special is active or not for display purposes in the attack dialog. the actual effects of the special seem to work right.
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20090325 15:15:08< Soliton> zookeeper: i'm guessing you want to change src/unit_abilities.cpp:679 and 704. no idea what else that'll effect though.
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20090325 20:06:42< zookeeper> Soliton, what does if (!report) mean?
20090325 20:06:51< zookeeper> damage calculations?
20090325 20:09:05< Soliton> report is a parameter for that function. probably set to true if it's used only for reporting like in some dialog.
20090325 20:11:36< zookeeper> well, i'm not gonna touch that myself, i think :P
20090325 20:12:34< zookeeper> but yeah, looks like logical spots to change..
20090325 20:18:18< Soliton> well, it's only going to change display of some strings. i can make you a binary with those ifs disabled if you want.
20090325 20:22:20< zookeeper> oh, that'd be great
20090325 20:22:56< zookeeper> i'm hoping of finally getting the noluck eras working right for 1.6.1 :|
20090325 20:27:31< zookeeper> hmm, but wouldn't report be true when that's called for the attack dialog?
20090325 20:28:50< Soliton> yes.
20090325 20:29:09< Soliton> so active_on is not checked then.
20090325 20:29:53< happygrue> zookeeper: that will be interesting.
20090325 20:32:32< zookeeper> Soliton, oh, duh, right.
20090325 20:32:48< zookeeper> happygrue, having such eras?
20090325 20:37:59< Soliton> zookeeper: binary built. tell me when you got it and i'll revert back to normal.
20090325 20:40:37< zookeeper> sure...well, i guess you don't need to if it fixes the bug
20090325 20:44:16< zookeeper> done, testing now
20090325 20:45:16< happygrue> zookeeper: yes
20090325 20:45:40< happygrue> I am interested in the reaction to them, and also in seeing what they are like
20090325 20:48:41< zookeeper> Soliton, based on a brief test it looks like it's working exactly as it should, now
20090325 20:49:10< zookeeper> i'll get back to work on the era to see if i can eliminate the rest of the bugs now
20090325 20:50:05< zookeeper> happygrue, yeah...at least people can stop whining about not having a noluck mod and instead focus on whining about how the noluck mod should work exactly ;)
20090325 20:50:05< Soliton> zookeeper: checked something else that uses active_on?
20090325 20:51:08 * happygrue nods
20090325 20:51:20< zookeeper> Soliton, charge, backstab etc work fine due to the previous fix, since they don't use any fancier filtering
20090325 20:51:47< Soliton> k
20090325 20:52:21< zookeeper> that is, they show up in the right panel but not in the attack dialog when defending
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20090325 21:02:41< zookeeper> yesss, the noluck era seems to work perfectly with that fix.
20090325 21:03:22< zookeeper> getting marksman to work was the last problem spot
20090325 21:08:55< zookeeper> Soliton, so could you commit that to trunk for now?
20090325 21:09:49< zookeeper> backporting to 1.6 can be done after i've fiddled with these long enough to be sure it doesn't break anything
20090325 21:15:46< Sirp> there is actually a mod at all which has no luck at all?
20090325 21:15:48< Sirp> not loluck?
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20090325 21:16:44< zookeeper> Sirp, erm, i'm making one with no luck at all and attempting one with "less" luck
20090325 21:17:32< Sirp> the thing is as far as I can see, if you go with no luck, then basically defense = resistance, and number of strikes matters little.
20090325 21:17:46< zookeeper> the former was actually easier to do, i'm still not sure if i can make the lessluck era work at all, we'll see.
20090325 21:22:38< zookeeper> Sirp, yes, that's how it works
20090325 21:22:49< zookeeper> 30% defense == 30% damage received
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20090325 22:45:46< ilor> would anyone here like to talk about the new lobby gsoc project?
20090325 22:46:39< Soliton> o/
20090325 22:47:37< ilor> ok. so far I had a look at the insides of server code and it looks like it could use some, uh, treatment
20090325 22:48:18< ilor> I understand the motivation behind making the lobby a special game everyone joins but it looks like a hack magnet and not a proper solution
20090325 22:48:44< Soliton> sure. as mentioned in the code. :-)
20090325 22:49:11< Soliton> if you want to extend the server to more rooms that needs to be changed.
20090325 22:49:12< ilor> the way I see it the project would have two separate parts
20090325 22:49:36< ilor> one would be to refactor the server to allow multiple rooms and a more reasonable structure for them
20090325 22:49:53< ilor> and the second to rewrite the client-side lobby gui and related stuff
20090325 22:50:01< Soliton> sounds good.
20090325 22:50:27< ilor> this has the advantage that I can always hack the server code while waiting for some feature from Mordante :)
20090325 22:51:24< ilor> there are some design decisions that I can already see, like whether a player should be allowed to be in multiple rooms at the same time
20090325 22:52:14< ilor> my take is "yes, unless it clutters the interface too much, and definitely allow it server-side even if we decide to disable it in the client"
20090325 22:52:47< Soliton> sounds good. we might want one global room were everyone is in by default or so.
20090325 22:53:08< Soliton> or allow moderators to observe all rooms or such.
20090325 22:53:25< ilor> yeah I was thinking moderators could use being in more than one room
20090325 22:53:47< ilor> also there's the question whether we allow user-made rooms, and what are the policies there
20090325 22:54:32< Soliton> yeah, we might not want to do it as liberal as irc.
20090325 22:55:10< Soliton> well, that's more a policy question for later anyway, i'd say.
20090325 22:55:25< ilor> ideally this should be a configurable setting
20090325 22:55:27< Soliton> the possibility should be ther.
20090325 22:57:28< ilor> so far some good... I have some ideas for the client-side gui but I'll put them on the wiki once I have a sketch or mockup or whatever
20090325 22:57:39< Soliton> more important than room support is nice sorting/filtering in the client IMO, btw.
20090325 22:57:56< Soliton> ilor: did you see what Baufo did recently.
20090325 22:58:02< Soliton> s/\./?/
20090325 22:58:20< Soliton> it's old gui i believe but interface wise a nice start, i think.
20090325 22:58:37< ilor> the filter thing? I saw the screenshot, yeah, good idea
20090325 22:59:18< ilor> I think one important improvement would be to have the option to 'collapse' the games list
20090325 22:59:18< Soliton> yep.
20090325 22:59:35< ilor> so they don't show minimaps but a lot more fit onscreen
20090325 23:00:05< Soliton> yeah, we had an option for that at some point... though it was more because of performance problems.
20090325 23:00:17< ilor> in my resolution only 4 or 5 games fit, that's a very low number imo
20090325 23:00:47< Soliton> having a nice one line display would be cool, indeed.
20090325 23:00:55< ilor> also after joining the lobby for 20 seconds I think there should be a "disable lobby sounds" button somewhere visible :D
20090325 23:01:05< Soliton> :-P
20090325 23:01:22< Soliton> i disabled chat sounds for everyone in time for 1.6.
20090325 23:01:33< Soliton> but the join sounds should also go.
20090325 23:02:01< ilor> also, moderators and generally people who'd rather chat than play should have the option of hiding most of the game list altogether to make room for a larger chat window
20090325 23:02:02< Soliton> i think i already tried at some point but it was tricky to keep them in the game lobby.
20090325 23:03:03< Soliton> well, looks like you already know quite well what all would be nice to have. :-)
20090325 23:03:15< ilor> shouldn't there be a context menu when I right click on a player name in the lobby?
20090325 23:03:39< ilor> Soliton: I had a boring lecture today and I decided to do something useful i.e. think about the project ;)(
20090325 23:03:40< Soliton> currently there is just a dialog on double click but sure.
20090325 23:04:44< ilor> also, from an usability standpoint, there are some issues with the current lobby
20090325 23:04:54< ilor> like what's the difference between red and blue usernames
20090325 23:05:26< Soliton> not that hard to figure out though? how would you make it more obvious?
20090325 23:05:39< ilor> icons would be better I think
20090325 23:05:45< ilor> icons in addition to the colors
20090325 23:05:55< Soliton> we already use icons for friends/ignores.
20090325 23:06:07< ilor> I assume blue means observing, but it's not immediately obvious
20090325 23:06:10< Soliton> but there could be more of course...
20090325 23:06:28< Soliton> blue means in the currently selected game.
20090325 23:06:37< ilor> I think we could use more icons to signify mods, devs or whatnot
20090325 23:06:40< ilor> Soliton: ahhhh
20090325 23:06:43< Soliton> the client doesn't know who is observing or not.
20090325 23:06:52< Soliton> (would be nice if it did though.)
20090325 23:07:18< Soliton> ilor: yes, at least a way to recognise mods is wanted.
20090325 23:07:44< ilor> I guess a battlenet-style banhammer icon would be good :D
20090325 23:08:00< Soliton> ilor: oh, also integrate the lobby with irc!
20090325 23:08:14< ilor> integrate how?
20090325 23:08:30< Soliton> so people can join with an irc client if they just want to chat/moderate.
20090325 23:08:59< ilor> that's a bit of a different thing
20090325 23:09:29< ilor> mind you it makes sense but it could be more difficult
20090325 23:09:29< Soliton> yeah. if you wanted to do that it'd need to be decided early on.
20090325 23:10:12< ilor> we'd most likely have to run our own irc server, and that's not always the best idea
20090325 23:10:38< Soliton> yes, it'd have to be a custom server.
20090325 23:11:12< ilor> coding/adjusting an irc server for wesnoth kinda explodes the scope of the project, imo
20090325 23:11:44< Soliton> well, it's really just a nice to have but i know it's probably not easy and might make some current features we have now infeasable. though it might also make things like rooms easier.
20090325 23:12:14< Soliton> yes, probably too much for gsoc.
20090325 23:12:17< ilor> the thing about irc is that it's not always appreciated
20090325 23:12:31< ilor> there are some oversensitive ISPs that could cause trouble
20090325 23:12:36< Soliton> on hosting services? true.
20090325 23:12:38< ilor> and I'm not being paranoid
20090325 23:13:15< ilor> half of Poland can't access gimp.org because the main ISP here decided that there is a botnet being run from an irc server there
20090325 23:13:47< Soliton> right, because you can't just run the botnet from a different irc server... :-P
20090325 23:14:10< Soliton> it's not like the irc server is the problem with a botnet.
20090325 23:14:24< ilor> they claim it reduces spam levels
20090325 23:14:41< ilor> but they never do anything about infested windows machines in their network
20090325 23:14:43< Soliton> anyhow i guess we're too far into our own solution to have integrating IRC as a feasable option.
20090325 23:15:15< Soliton> just something i remembered was discussed before.
20090325 23:15:15< ilor> I think IRC brings a whole new level of complexity into all this
20090325 23:16:04< Soliton> the thing is that some people (mostly mods) would like a simpler way than a wesnoth client to connect to the lobby.
20090325 23:16:16< ilor> one option would be to have a smart irc bot
20090325 23:16:29< Soliton> for me personally the irc echo plus shell access is actually ok. ;-)
20090325 23:16:41< Soliton> yeah.
20090325 23:16:45< ilor> we could make the irc echo bot accept mod commands
20090325 23:18:17< ilor> and, uh, the lobby join sounds are getting axed, period :P
20090325 23:18:18< Soliton> hmm.. chatting could work via making irc nicks into special nicks that you couldn't have on the server.
20090325 23:18:38< Soliton> ilor: well, it's useful when you open a game and wait for people to join.
20090325 23:18:57< Soliton> ilor: you can bug zookeeper with ideas for nicer sounds though. :-)
20090325 23:19:12< ilor> it's a options-are-good example
20090325 23:19:26< Soliton> well, you can turn interface sounds off.
20090325 23:19:33< Soliton> it could be more granular though.
20090325 23:20:28< ilor> yeah, I don't mind the clickety clicks on menus, but the lobby blings are getting annoying ;)
20090325 23:21:21< Soliton> patches welcome. :-)
20090325 23:28:24< ilor> bold usernames are registered users?
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20090325 23:30:47< Soliton> yes.
20090325 23:32:15< ilor> again, not immediately obvious. I'd say much less than the players-in-selected-game ;)
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--- Log closed Thu Mar 26 00:00:43 2009