--- Log opened Sun Mar 08 00:00:07 2009
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20090308 01:23:22< Ivanovic> n8
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20090308 01:51:33< martin3z> why units have only 3 number of levels? can it be more? (some add-on or something)?
20090308 01:53:40< Blueblaze> Yeah, you can modify the game to have as many levels as you want
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20090308 01:54:12< Blueblaze> It's just the standard is 3-5 for Wesnoth campaigns, as it's really unnecessary to level beyond that because it takes so long you'd never see the levels
20090308 01:54:21< Shadow_Master> Wesnoth (core) is not an RPG.
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20090308 08:59:37< dfranke> Every player makes the same damned strategic mistake on Fallenstar Lake.
20090308 09:00:08< dfranke> They commit way too much force to trying to break through my lines on the north half of the map, and barely anything to holding the south.
20090308 09:00:52< dfranke> When at least four factions (all but drake and undead) can easily hold their ground against considerably greater force in the north.
20090308 09:01:28< dfranke> leaving plenty more troops available to slip by in the south and steal most of their villages.
20090308 09:03:09< dfranke> or, as in my last game, assassinate their leader on turn 9 :-)
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20090308 10:59:39< Ivanovic> moin
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20090308 15:40:52< pnordico[xi]> anybody there?
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20090308 17:19:16< [Relic]> Hello :)
20090308 17:21:20< Elvish_Pillager> Ha ha ha! X-Com wesnoth!
20090308 17:21:35< Elvish_Pillager> How is that not a totally obvious and awesome idea?
20090308 17:21:58< Elvish_Pillager> Damn, now I just have to code it.
20090308 17:23:22< Tomsik> It'll suck
20090308 17:23:45< Tomsik> One, it won't be like x-com at all
20090308 17:23:48< Elvish_Pillager> Duh
20090308 17:23:51< Tomsik> two, it'll be written by YOU! :-p
20090308 17:23:54< Elvish_Pillager> ah
20090308 17:23:57< Elvish_Pillager> how terrible
20090308 17:24:01< Tomsik> yeah, totally
20090308 17:24:16< Tomsik> more seriously, I don't think you can make it be like x-com at all
20090308 17:24:18< Elvish_Pillager> in conclusion, it will be totally awesome.
20090308 17:24:26< Elvish_Pillager> Well, not like X-Com tactical mode
20090308 17:24:35< Elvish_Pillager> just the strategic mode
20090308 17:24:39< Tomsik> Uh huh
20090308 17:24:49< Tomsik> strategic mode?
20090308 17:24:56< Elvish_Pillager> the tactical battles would be done with Wesnoth battles
20090308 17:24:58< Tomsik> without tactical?
20090308 17:24:58< Elvish_Pillager> I mean, geoscape
20090308 17:25:23< Tomsik> but, the squads were modifiable
20090308 17:25:27< Elvish_Pillager> So?
20090308 17:25:44< Tomsik> what are you going to do, a thousand kinds of units, dynamically-generated units?
20090308 17:25:54< Elvish_Pillager> o_O
20090308 17:26:04< Elvish_Pillager> You mean for units with the different weapons and armor?
20090308 17:26:09< Tomsik> yeah
20090308 17:26:17< Elvish_Pillager> I'm not going to do _that_
20090308 17:26:21< Tomsik> and experience, it's not same for every soldier
20090308 17:26:35< Tomsik> Well, it's more like shoot-enemy-ufos than x-com then :-p
20090308 17:26:44< Elvish_Pillager> wow
20090308 17:27:04 * Elvish_Pillager gives up on trying to explain the idea, since Tomsik doesn't appear to be interested in trying to understand
20090308 17:27:34< Tomsik> Elvish_Pillager: yeah "let's take 2/3 of the game away and still call it the same"
20090308 17:28:16< Elvish_Pillager> Tomsik: yeah "let's insult someone's idea because we jumped to conclusions"
20090308 17:28:45< Tomsik> it's not someone, it's YOU :-p
20090308 17:28:51< Tomsik> also, I was kidding, you silly person
20090308 17:29:12< Elvish_Pillager> next time you're kidding, do it in a way that's funny instead of disgusting
20090308 17:30:04 * Elvish_Pillager goes to take a test
20090308 17:30:10< Turuk> wow
20090308 17:30:15< Elvish_Pillager> ?
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20090308 17:46:27 * Elvish_Pillager returns from getting a perfect score on the test
20090308 17:46:54 * Elvish_Pillager 's fate hangs in the balance!
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20090308 18:18:36< su2> hi
20090308 18:19:08< su2> is someone familar with "the eastern invasion" campaign? i have a question regarding a strange error.
20090308 18:19:31< Shadow_Master> speak
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20090308 18:19:47< Blueblaze> Speak now or forever hold your peace 
20090308 18:20:08< Blueblaze> Otherwise you will be bonded to Shadow_Master forever
20090308 18:20:27< su2> i lost a mage between the levels "lake vrug" and "evacuation"
20090308 18:20:34< su2> in lake vrug i still had it
20090308 18:20:49< su2> then in evacuation i couldn't recall him
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20090308 18:21:21< zookeeper> he appeared nowhere in captured?
20090308 18:21:23< su2> i guess it is because in the level in between ("captured") he was not in the prison
20090308 18:21:35< zookeeper> right
20090308 18:22:06< su2> i guess because there was not enough space for all of them
20090308 18:22:17< su2> i have abount 20 in my army
20090308 18:22:34< su2> didn't know that this would be a problem
20090308 18:22:58< su2> there are a lot of shock troopers i don't really need
20090308 18:23:47< su2> so when i go back to lake vrug and let them go, i'll avoid losing troops in captuted/evacuation?
20090308 18:28:10< su2> or is it normal that not all my troops are in the prison of "captured" and then lost?
20090308 18:29:17< zookeeper> i'm not sure how it was originally intended.
20090308 18:29:26< zookeeper> i'm kinda busy now, i'll take a look at it in a while.
20090308 18:30:17< su2> ok, thank you. :)
20090308 18:30:35< su2> otherwise great campaign so far
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20090308 18:51:19< su2> zookeeper: i now started replaying "captured" with some units dismissed. upon entering the throne room (when the prisoners are revealed) wesnoth crashes with a segfault.
20090308 18:51:38< su2> last errors are:
20090308 18:51:39< su2> error display: could not open image ''
20090308 18:51:39< su2> error engine: player not found!
20090308 18:51:39< su2> error engine: player not found!
20090308 18:51:40< su2> error engine: could not de-serialize unit: 'load_game_failed: Attempt to de-serialize an empty unit'
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20090308 19:15:21< zookeeper> su2, so what wesnoth version are you using?
20090308 19:16:04< su2> zookeeper: 1.1.12 i'm already downloading the latest version and will try to compile it
20090308 19:16:22< zookeeper> err...you really mean 1.1.12 and not 1.5.12?
20090308 19:18:28< su2> zookeeper: yes, 1.1.12. i still use an older version which came with my distro (which i know i should have updated long ago ;)
20090308 19:19:00< Unnheulu> su2: maybe thats why it doesnt work xD
20090308 19:19:24< zookeeper> well, in that case sorry, no one cares about bugs you might find there.
20090308 19:19:28< su2> Unnheulu: well if it is/was a known bug it's probably fixed
20090308 19:20:08< su2> zookeeper: sure, i understand. i'll try the latest release and if it's still crashing i'll report.
20090308 19:20:15< Blueblaze> su2, you can download the bug fix here: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Download#Stable_.281.4_branch.29
20090308 19:20:25< su2> the save games are compatible?
20090308 19:20:28< zookeeper> no, don't download 1.4.
20090308 19:20:29< zookeeper> no
20090308 19:20:45< zookeeper> not at all compatible, you'll need to start campaigns from the beginning.
20090308 19:20:59< Blueblaze> Yeah, why not download 1.4 though? :x
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20090308 19:21:20< zookeeper> but considering how much new stuff there is, especially in terms of new campaigns, i doubt you'll mind not being able to continue 1.1 EI :x
20090308 19:22:14< zookeeper> su2, anyway, you should get 1.5.12, and then move to 1.6 once it comes out, probably in a couple of weeks or so.
20090308 19:22:29< su2> uh, hmm that's sad. i'm halfway through. it would be boring to play all the levels again.
20090308 19:22:33< Blueblaze> Well, if he's into playing online multiplayer, that's a different case :P
20090308 19:22:34< zookeeper> saves from 1.5.12 will be compatible with that
20090308 19:22:47< Unnheulu> su2: debug the first few scenarios? :P
20090308 19:22:50< Blueblaze> su2, the levels are most likely dramatically different
20090308 19:22:56< Unnheulu> not as rewarding but w/e
20090308 19:23:02< zookeeper> su2, just play some other campaign? or if you really want to test that particular bug, just use the debug mode to skip through the levels..
20090308 19:24:20< su2> i whish i wouldn't have deleted my save game which didn't crash. i would rather level up another mage to make up for the lost one.
20090308 19:26:03< su2> i'll think about it. probably i'll give it some tries to find out how i need to end "lake vrug" so that "cpatured" does not crash and i still have my precious units in "evacuation"
20090308 19:26:44< su2> otherwise i'll just wait for 1.6 and replay the campaign
20090308 19:27:27< su2> anyway, thanks for your help!
20090308 19:27:39< su2> wesnoth is really great
20090308 19:29:42< zookeeper> well, i think you'll be even more happy with 1.5/1.6 then ;)
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20090308 19:32:41< su2> zookeeper: yeah, i guess so :)
20090308 19:32:57< su2> the ChangeLog is impressive
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20090308 19:35:21< zookeeper> 1.5 is still a kind of a development release so it has a few bugs left, that's why i said you should upgrade to 1.6 when it's released
20090308 19:37:37< su2> zookeeper: i'll see. if it compiles on my old distro, i'll give it a try and use the boring replay of the first levels as bugfixing and getting used to the changes of the new version(s)
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20090308 19:40:47< su2> thanks again and keep up your good work
20090308 19:40:49< su2> bye!
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20090308 20:21:16< Woodmouse> ?
20090308 20:21:19< Blueblaze> hey wood
20090308 20:21:19< Blueblaze> hey Woodmouse
20090308 20:21:19< Blueblaze> :o
20090308 20:21:19< Woodmouse> hello Blueblaze
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20090308 20:21:42< Blueblaze> Woodmouse, I like your sprites :o
20090308 20:21:53< Woodmouse> thanks, Blueblaze
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20090308 20:23:09< Blueblaze> Woodmouse, are you working on a specific project, or are you just making random sprites basically
20090308 20:23:25< Woodmouse> I plan on making lots of monsters
20090308 20:23:38< Blueblaze> ah
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20090308 20:27:15 * Woodmouse goes afk for a while
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20090308 20:39:22 * Elvish_Pillage2 is putting some thought into making multi-unit monsters
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20090308 20:40:55< Blueblaze> how would it work
20090308 20:40:56< Blueblaze> ?
20090308 20:41:04< Elvish_Pillage2> here's my current idea:
20090308 20:41:19< Elvish_Pillage2> you have a core unit and a bunch of arms that are attached to it and have to remain in hexes adjacent to the core
20090308 20:41:37< zookeeper> i started writing that once
20090308 20:41:39< zookeeper> never finished
20090308 20:41:41< Elvish_Pillage2> The core moves by itself, and when it does, the arms teleport to new locations.
20090308 20:41:56< Elvish_Pillage2> Only catch: How is it determined which places the arms land?
20090308 20:42:11< zookeeper> they always land in the same place relative to the body
20090308 20:42:22< Elvish_Pillage2> I thought of doing that, but it seems really weird
20090308 20:43:17< Elvish_Pillage2> I want them to be repositioned manually, but that requires AI-to-WML and human-to-WML communication that I don't have
20090308 20:43:32< zookeeper> depends on the type of monster. i was making a giant turtle, so if the body landed next to an enemy or a wall so that there's no space for a leg to come out, it'd just stay inside the shell.
20090308 20:43:59< Turuk> I think a user did something similar in his campaign
20090308 20:44:00< zookeeper> of course i guess you can just make a FAI or use gotos cleverly to ensure the body only moves to places where there's space for the limbs
20090308 20:44:32< Turuk> Using tentacles or something like that, just had them fill in a certain radius around the core if they could
20090308 20:44:38< zookeeper> kraken?
20090308 20:44:53< Turuk> MIght be what I'm thinking of, but I think it was also in Velensk's campaign
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20090308 20:45:12< zookeeper> meh, a real multi-hex unit would have to have seamless graphics too
20090308 20:45:18< zookeeper> tentacles are cheap ;)
20090308 20:45:27< Elvish_Pillage2> I can make it work if it's AI controlled, since the WML can act as an extension of the AI
20090308 20:45:37< Elvish_Pillage2> actually there are multiple problems with making it human controlled
20090308 20:47:43< Elvish_Pillage2> zookeeper, can unit attributes inside tags be SUF'd on?
20090308 20:48:00< Shadow_Master> [filter][filter_wml] ?
20090308 20:48:20< Shadow_Master> perhaps defining what you mean with "unit attributes inside tags" would be better
20090308 20:48:40< zookeeper> [filter][filter_wml][status]poisoned=yes
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20090308 20:48:49< Elvish_Pillage2> thanks
20090308 20:49:39< Elvish_Pillage2> I'm giving the units in question [ai_vars] values so that the AI can recognize them as well as WML
20090308 20:50:50< zookeeper> better put it inside [variables] too in case the unit ever AMLAs or something.
20090308 20:51:01< Elvish_Pillage2> what?
20090308 20:51:21< Elvish_Pillage2> [ai_vars] are wiped when the unit levels up? o_O
20090308 20:53:19< zookeeper> maybe
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20090308 20:58:54< Elvish_Pillage2> moveto events still don't store where the unit moved from? :/
20090308 20:59:14< zookeeper> correct
20090308 20:59:36< Elvish_Pillage2> of course, I could keep track of that myself :/
20090308 20:59:59< Shadow_Master> FR ?
20090308 21:00:18< Elvish_Pillage2> I'll be quite surprised if there isn't one already
20090308 21:00:56< Woodmouse> hmm, btw, is it possible to make stuff happen when an unit sees something?
20090308 21:01:08< Woodmouse> I mean, like when the fog isn't there
20090308 21:01:12< Woodmouse> and reveals something
20090308 21:01:18< Elvish_Pillage2> sighted event
20090308 21:01:27< Shadow_Master> http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Create
20090308 21:01:32< Elvish_Pillage2> if it's "sees a non-unit", you put an invisible unit there to trigger sighted events
20090308 21:01:35< Shadow_Master> http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/EventWML
20090308 21:01:52< Woodmouse> thanks
20090308 21:02:12< Shadow_Master> Elvish_Pillage2: I think some people have already suggested that the full path used to get to a moveto destination should be stored in a WML variable
20090308 21:02:16< Shadow_Master> note full path.
20090308 21:03:13< Elvish_Pillage2> my search on bugs.wesnoth.org finds nothing
20090308 21:03:30< Shadow_Master> then it was on the forums only
20090308 21:12:41< Elvish_Pillage2> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13140
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20090308 21:30:27< Elvish_Pillage2> I wish WML could disallow ending turn
20090308 21:33:36< Woodmouse> lol, that would be weird
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20090308 21:58:07< ilor> Elvish_Pillage2: make it a FR
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20090308 22:01:29< Elvish_Pillage2> Looks like it's EP FR season again!
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20090308 22:07:27< Elvish_Pillage2> Submitted.
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20090308 23:53:08< Elvish_Pillage2> okay, this should work.
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20090308 23:53:24< Elvish_Pillage2> The fact that I didn't test any of it yet means that it definitely won't.
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20090308 23:54:13< Elvish_Pillage2> I'll probably have to fix at least a dozen mistakes before the units will move.
20090308 23:54:15< Elvish_Pillage2> Six before it loads.
20090308 23:56:43< Blueblaze> Elvish_Pillage2, what are you testing?
20090308 23:56:55< Elvish_Pillage2> my multi-unit-monsters thing :)
20090308 23:58:00< Blueblaze> ahh, you really went with it :p
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--- Log closed Mon Mar 09 00:00:16 2009