--- Log opened Mon Mar 23 00:00:16 2009
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20090323 00:44:09< nihil-01> what is the funktion for the USE lite in the config of wesnoth source?
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20090323 01:27:41< Auree> hi all
20090323 01:29:43< Auree> I'm running Ubuntu 8.10, Wesnoth version 1.4.5 and I cannot switch to russian (actually I cannot switch to any language), could you help me please?
20090323 01:31:37< happygrue> Auree: 1.4.5 is very old
20090323 01:31:49< happygrue> you should think about getting 1.6a
20090323 01:32:17< Auree> I guess Ubuntu rep doesn't contain a newer version.. are there packages for 1.6a?
20090323 01:33:47< happygrue> Auree: you can check here: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesnothBinariesLinux
20090323 01:33:51< happygrue> looks like not yet
20090323 01:34:06< happygrue> can you compile yourself?
20090323 01:34:38< Auree> I'd prefer to use a package, but thank you, I will try to compile :) 
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20090323 01:44:52< Auree> I upgraded to 1.4.7 for now, problem fixed :)
20090323 01:46:44< noy> Auree: you'll need to upgrade to 1.6 in a matter of days
20090323 01:46:47< noy> if not now
20090323 01:47:26< happygrue> if you want to play online that is
20090323 01:47:39< happygrue> (and you do ;) )
20090323 01:47:48< Auree> ah, ok :) I will
20090323 01:49:28< Blueblaze> Auree: Just let us know if you have problems compiling, I just switched from Windows XP to Ubuntu 8.10 and someone helped me compile, so I should be able to tell you what was done :P
20090323 01:51:39< Auree> thanks, Blueblaze :)
20090323 01:52:22< Blueblaze> If not me, I'm quite sure there are several other people here who know how to do it too 
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20090323 02:12:20< happygrue> Blueblaze: I just downloaded ubuntu actually, but I haven't decided if I want to start off duel-boot or not yet
20090323 02:12:30< happygrue> did you try that, or go straight ubuntu?
20090323 02:12:57< Blueblaze> Straight to Ubuntu, was forced into it due to Windows XP committing suicide and I didn't have a backup cd
20090323 02:13:07< Blueblaze> Thus, I'd have to repurchase it :|
20090323 02:13:22< Blueblaze> Afaik, if you want to switch to dual-boot you'll have to reformat your entire harddrive
20090323 02:13:23< happygrue> ah
20090323 02:13:47< happygrue> mmm, I think you should be able to partition it
20090323 02:13:53< Blueblaze> And, it works pretty well from what I can tell, since I have part of my harddrive set aside for some dell boot program that's used to control some system files
20090323 02:13:55< Blueblaze> Yeah
20090323 02:14:06< Blueblaze> But doesn't partitioning require a reformat, if you don't have empty space?
20090323 02:14:12< happygrue> so you reformated and installed clean then?
20090323 02:14:36< Blueblaze> Yeah, that's what I did, used Ubuntu to access my Windows files, recovered them, then reformatted and installed
20090323 02:14:41< Blueblaze> Ubuntu was very easy to install :P
20090323 02:14:44< happygrue> well, I would make empty space :P
20090323 02:14:45< happygrue> good
20090323 02:14:56< happygrue> ah, I see
20090323 02:15:22< happygrue> and that worked ok?
20090323 02:15:37< Blueblaze> Of course, but I didn't think you could break up a current parition on a harddrive
20090323 02:16:00< happygrue> it is a bit risky I think, but IIRC you can do it
20090323 02:16:06< Blueblaze> ah okay
20090323 02:16:25< happygrue> I am by no means an expert, but I had a duel boot system years ago, and I think I did that to set it up
20090323 02:16:39< happygrue> or at least I tried ;)
20090323 02:17:10< Blueblaze> Well, anyway, Ubuntu itself works great, the hard part is setting up everything, Windows pretty much has everything you need to get your wifi started, etc..
20090323 02:17:32< Blueblaze> I had a lot of trouble setting up the wifi, and my microphone output jack doesn't work either
20090323 02:17:51< Blueblaze> I haven't bothered fixing that, and probably won't get to it since I don't have a need for it
20090323 02:18:08< happygrue> yeah, I imagine some problems with that sort of thing, since I have an old hodge-podge of hardware with some new stuff as well
20090323 02:18:58< happygrue> I have needed windows because my wife does graphic design sometimes, and needed adobe stuff
20090323 02:19:05< happygrue> but she has a new computer now...  ;)
20090323 02:19:09< Blueblaze> Heh
20090323 02:19:18< happygrue> so I can switch over at last!
20090323 02:19:21< isaac> o
20090323 02:19:31< Blueblaze> Well, if you still have your windows cds, then by all means I say back it up and go for it since you don't have anything to lose
20090323 02:19:57< Shadow_Master> isaac: p?
20090323 02:20:21< isaac> q
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20090323 02:20:54< elynia> r!
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20090323 02:21:07< Blueblaze> happygrue:  Installation of Ubuntu itself is quick so that's not going to consume much time, and if you don't like it/have too much problems with it, then you can reinstall Windows. Plus having a second computer will ensure you have access to the internet and so forth for tech support
20090323 02:21:56< Blueblaze> Me having a second laptop made life 100x easier than it would have been for sure if I was just using Ubuntu without another side computer
20090323 02:22:03 * happygrue nods
20090323 02:22:57< happygrue> well, I'll back up some things and try the installing over the weekend if not before.
20090323 02:23:02< happygrue> and let you know how it goes ;)
20090323 02:23:19< Blueblaze> Heh, well don't come to me for tech support :P
20090323 02:23:34< Blueblaze> So, I only want to hear if it went well lol
20090323 02:24:04< Blueblaze> Nah, I'll help as best as I can, at least point you to someone who can help :)
20090323 02:24:37< Shadow_Master> the first thing you want to do there is compile wesnoth from sources. I can help with that ;)
20090323 02:25:09< Shadow_Master> later you'll find yourself building wesnoth from svn HEAD every 50 minutes
20090323 02:26:30< Shadow_Master> *evil grin*
20090323 02:27:10 * Blueblaze fears he'll be doing it too
20090323 02:27:22< Blueblaze> Okay, maybe not every 50 minutes
20090323 02:36:48< Shadow_Master> sometimes I do it every 5 minutes.
20090323 02:37:01< Shadow_Master> depends on what stuff the other guys with commit access are smoking at that moment
20090323 02:37:09< happygrue> ha
20090323 02:42:54< happygrue> Shadow_Master: can I send a memo to more than one person?
20090323 02:43:41< Shadow_Master> happygrue: define memo
20090323 02:43:52< Shadow_Master> is this for IRC, or the forum?
20090323 02:44:19< happygrue> IRC
20090323 02:44:54< happygrue> hmm
20090323 02:45:15< Shadow_Master>  /msg memoserv help send
20090323 02:45:21< Shadow_Master> only one person at a time.
20090323 02:45:35< Shadow_Master>  /msg memoserv help sendops
20090323 02:45:37< Shadow_Master> channel ops
20090323 02:45:52< Shadow_Master> I assume you meant MemoServ's memos.
20090323 02:46:08< happygrue> ah, yes thanks
20090323 02:46:35< happygrue> I wasn't finding 'send' because I forgot to whisper to memoserv...
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20090323 03:14:25< semitones> hey, how do I dl the new mainline campaign
20090323 03:14:33< semitones> I don't see it in the user campaign addons
20090323 03:14:52< Shadow_Master> semitones: it's not available for 1.4
20090323 03:15:04< Shadow_Master> we recommend that you upgrade to wesnoth 1.6.0 to try it
20090323 03:15:07< Shadow_Master> *1.6a
20090323 03:17:16< semitones> hmm I thought I had... checking
20090323 03:17:23< semitones> I used synaptic to update wesnoth
20090323 03:17:51< Shadow_Master> your distribution may not be offering 1.6 in its main repo (considering 1.6 was released just "today"/"wednesday")
20090323 03:18:05< Shadow_Master> you may need to use a backports repository later, even.
20090323 03:18:13< Shadow_Master> alternatively you can build wesnoth from sources.
20090323 03:18:43< semitones> alright, I'll give it a shot
20090323 03:18:53< semitones> or wait for it to trickle down through the repos :P
20090323 03:19:27< Shadow_Master> apt-get build-dep wesnoth   should get you all the dependencies to build the tarball from the downloads page
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20090323 04:27:51< Blueblaze> [Relic]: Hi!
20090323 04:27:54< Blueblaze> oh wait, forgot the smilie
20090323 04:28:24< [Relic]> Hello :)
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20090323 08:23:27< Unnheulu|Laptop> hi
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20090323 08:45:52< MaximB> hi
20090323 08:46:15< MaximB> the ubuntu release of 1.6 out yet ?
20090323 08:47:32< Unnheulu|Laptop> why?
20090323 08:47:37< Unnheulu|Laptop> download it
20090323 08:47:39< Unnheulu|Laptop> unzip
20090323 08:47:46< Unnheulu|Laptop> cd ~/wesnoth-1.6
20090323 08:47:50< Unnheulu|Laptop> ./configure
20090323 08:47:54< Unnheulu|Laptop> no
20090323 08:48:04< Unnheulu|Laptop> sudo apt-get install-dep wesnoth
20090323 08:48:08< Unnheulu|Laptop> ./configure
20090323 08:48:11< Unnheulu|Laptop> make
20090323 08:48:15< Unnheulu|Laptop> sudo make install
20090323 08:49:30< hagabaka> because debs are easier to update and uninstall, and keep track of
20090323 08:50:10< Unnheulu|Laptop> ...
20090323 08:50:19< Unnheulu|Laptop> sudo make uninstall
20090323 08:50:25< Unnheulu|Laptop> easy :D
20090323 08:52:14< MaximB> yep , I got it installed (1.47) so I just need to update
20090323 08:52:40< hagabaka> that requires you to save the Makefile, and if you install a lot of programs this way by the time you want to uninstall them, you might have removed their sources or forgotten where you left them. it also depends on the Makefile to have uninstall target, maybe autoconf always does it, but not all programs
20090323 08:52:58< Unnheulu|Laptop> ...
20090323 08:53:07< Unnheulu|Laptop> its easier than waiting for the deb
20090323 08:53:33< hagabaka> easier at the moment, creates trouble later on
20090323 08:53:46< Unnheulu|Laptop> although, if its as easy to make a deb from C++ as it is from python I'll try building debs someday^^
20090323 08:54:01< Unnheulu|Laptop> thats why I do a clean reinstall ever 6 months, jsut incase :)
20090323 08:55:37< hagabaka> fortunately wesnoth doesn't need to be installed to be run, I just keep svn directories for the stable and unstable builds, and update them to the most recent tag, compile and run from there
20090323 08:57:20< MaximB> when I update from .deb to 1.6 - all the addons/maps will stay and work with the new version - right ?
20090323 08:57:41< Unnheulu|Laptop> what version?
20090323 08:57:47< Unnheulu|Laptop> (are you on atm
20090323 08:59:08< hagabaka> if the old deb uses the same user data directory as the new one, they should stay, but addons often stop working after a few versions of WML changes
20090323 08:59:43< Unnheulu|Laptop> ye
20090323 08:59:50< Unnheulu|Laptop> or if you change stable release
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20090323 09:05:24< MaximB> ouch
20090323 09:05:50< MaximB> then I guess I'll have to download them again ? or they won't be compatible ? 
20090323 09:06:59< Ivanovic> addons for older versions like 1.4.x or 1.5.x till 1.5.12 are *not* compatible with 1.6
20090323 09:07:12< Ivanovic> everything from 1.5.12 onwards should be working together
20090323 09:11:04< voris> Synaptic is only gonna show 1.4.5 anyway. May as well compile it yourself. ;)
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20090323 09:21:56< MaximB> Ivanovic:  but do those add-on's appear at the addons section ?
20090323 09:22:31< voris> The addons list you will see when you are running 1.6 is not the same as what you'll see when you're running 1.4.7.
20090323 09:22:46< voris> And not everything from 1.4.7 has been ported over yet.
20090323 09:22:55< MaximB> good, so all the addons I see are working ?
20090323 09:23:07< voris> That you see on 1.6?
20090323 09:23:11< MaximB> yep
20090323 09:23:12< voris> Yes.
20090323 09:23:17< voris> Mostly.
20090323 09:23:33< voris> I noticed clonkinator missed a tiny WML change in one of his SX things.
20090323 09:23:37< voris> but it's not a breaking change.
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20090323 09:23:55< MaximB> ok, I guess I'll wait several weeks till most older addons will work on 1.6
20090323 09:25:03< MaximB> the problem with the addons in general is when you install say...20 addons, they still appear at the addons menu - and you can't remember if you got them already or not - that something that needs to be fixed imo.
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20090323 10:09:43< MaximB> never tried it, but can I recall units that died ?
20090323 10:11:46< zookeeper> no
20090323 10:11:49< voris> no
20090323 10:11:52< zookeeper> they're dead after all
20090323 10:12:10< voris> Unless you're a necromancer. Then... you still can't.
20090323 10:12:13< voris> ;)
20090323 10:18:33< MaximB> any plans for new factions ?
20090323 10:24:19< zookeeper> people plan silly new factions all the time.
20090323 10:25:05< zookeeper> no plans for anything mainline of course, besides maybe the kalifa, but that'd be pretty far in the future in any case.
20090323 10:28:28< MaximB> kalifa ?
20090323 10:34:33< zookeeper> yes.
20090323 10:37:30< MaximB> zookeeper:  I mean, what is this faction .. units ?
20090323 10:41:34< zookeeper> search and find out
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20090323 11:34:39< Taliesin_> Hello.
20090323 11:34:46< grzybacz> hi
20090323 11:34:47< SynrG> morning
20090323 11:35:22< Taliesin_> Anybody know why there's no campaigns for the drakes?
20090323 11:36:25< grzybacz> Taliesin_: you mean in mainline?
20090323 11:36:48< grzybacz> Taliesin_: the most likely reason would be that nobody came up with a drake campaign that was good enough for inclusion
20090323 11:37:11< Taliesin_> In anything, really. I think there were a couple of attempts by users, but those look to have been abandoned at best a third of the way through.
20090323 11:37:30< grzybacz> Then the answer is that noone tried hard enough. :)
20090323 11:38:08< Taliesin_> I guess so.
20090323 11:38:12< grzybacz> *You* can fill this gap ;-)
20090323 11:38:43< Taliesin_> Not likely. I can write a damn good story, and I could probably get my head around the map editor with time... But I'm no coder or artist.
20090323 11:38:59< grzybacz> Taliesin_: the damn good story part is usually the hardest
20090323 11:39:06< Taliesin_> Seriously?
20090323 11:39:10< Taliesin_> Huh. Maybe there is hope.
20090323 11:39:10< grzybacz> I would think so.
20090323 11:39:44< Taliesin_> I actually have a concept for a Drake story worked out already. Would you like to hear?
20090323 11:39:52< grzybacz> If you can come up with a good story, dialogue, scenario ideas... I'm fairly sure you'd get help with the rest
20090323 11:39:59< grzybacz> Taliesin_: how about you write on the forum?
20090323 11:40:23< Taliesin_> I've been looking for a writing forum, there isn't one.
20090323 11:40:26< grzybacz> under "Scenario & Campaign Development"
20090323 11:40:53< Taliesin_> I come from a background where asking for help with your own creation without having anything substantial to start it up to begin with, is VERY bad form.
20090323 11:41:34< grzybacz> That is true. You won't find help like that. But if you *do* share a good and fairly complete story, you don't come with nothing. :)
20090323 11:42:49< grzybacz> Taliesin_: you may want to join #wesnoth-umc-dev as well
20090323 11:42:52< Taliesin_> I guess so. But from my view, it basically amounts to asking people to tell my story which... Well, the biggest modding community I'm involved in is the Relicnews forums, and they have a pretty hardline "no requests" policy, so I guess I'm biased.
20090323 11:42:56< Taliesin_> I'll think about it.
20090323 11:43:21< Taliesin_> Anyway, would YOU like to hear? I'm not very up on Wesnoth lore, so it's always good to bounce ideas off somebody.
20090323 11:43:28< grzybacz> well, sure
20090323 11:43:32< zookeeper> Taliesin_, you might find coders if you can come up with a story which is really interesting and you'll also design the actual scenarios in detail
20090323 11:43:48< Taliesin_> Define "design"
20090323 11:44:21< zookeeper> write pretty much all dialogue, draw the maps, specify objectives and what happens where, etc etc
20090323 11:44:26< grzybacz> Taliesin_: and you can trust zookeeper, he's one of the campaign wizards ;)
20090323 11:44:52< Taliesin_> Hm. So I'm definitely gonna have to get my head around the map editor.
20090323 11:44:54< zookeeper> it's really quick to write the actual scenario code if you know how it's supposed to work
20090323 11:45:04< Taliesin_> Which I don't.
20090323 11:45:06< Taliesin_> ...
20090323 11:45:08< Taliesin_> Code scares me.
20090323 11:45:15< zookeeper> no, i meant how the scenario is supposed to work.
20090323 11:45:38< zookeeper> if you have a story and more or less complete scenario design for a drake campaign then i'll write the code for you ;)
20090323 11:45:50< zookeeper> (for a drake campaign which i think would be cool, anyway)
20090323 11:46:45< Taliesin_> I have a story concept, at the moment. Although, my concepts tend to accrue details and quirks by the hour.
20090323 11:48:05< zookeeper> well, you can post it on the forums. just don't phrase it so that you're asking for anyone to do it for you
20090323 11:48:11< zookeeper> that's always asking for trouble ;)
20090323 11:48:49< Taliesin_> Ahh... Tact. That ugly old thing- I kid, we get along fine.
20090323 11:49:21< Taliesin_> At any rate. Would you like to hear the concept? I could use somebody who knows Wesnoth lore to point out where I'm horribly screwing it up beforehand at any rate.
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20090323 11:50:53< grzybacz> Taliesin_: come on, don't be afraid to post ;-)
20090323 11:51:13< zookeeper> sure
20090323 11:51:23< Taliesin_> Kinda busy to write an in-depth forum post right now. I will, just... Later.
20090323 11:52:24< Taliesin_> Okay then. The basic concept is a pair of Drakes who were not actually born siblings, but have become something pretty close. I'm toying with a concept like "battle brothers" which I'll probably flesh out later.
20090323 11:53:49< Taliesin_> The first is Bellemor, a pretty traditional Flare only remarkable for the other guys... Abnormalities. So, charismatic, strong, quick, skilled warrior, all the standards for a meritocratic, martially-inclined society.
20090323 11:54:49< Taliesin_> Firin, however, is NOT the standard. He's about as close to a scholar as a drake can be, and as such is generally treated like dirt by other Drakes, because he's pretty much deadweight in a fight.
20090323 11:56:39< Taliesin_> To clarify; Firin is not a mage, nor one of those kooky people who know a lot about fighting without being a fighter themselves. He's more of a historian and a student of myths. Later on, he might start studying anatomy so he can be useful to the other Drakes by providing advice as a subplot.
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20090323 11:57:04< Taliesin_> The main plot, though, is Firin's obsessive desire to bring back true dragons.
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20090323 11:58:48< Taliesin_> That requires knowledge the Drake's don't have though, so Firin enlists Bellemor's help in leading an expedition to claim the necessary knowledge- likely by force. That provides a nice hook to allow battles against other factions with a clear goal.
20090323 11:59:34< Taliesin_> Undead, for example, tend to be old and given to study life and death, so they might know something. The Elves probably would too, and depending how much of the land Loyalists control, they might have something buried away.
20090323 11:59:56< zookeeper> all right
20090323 12:00:22< zookeeper> i'm not too clear about what "bring back true dragons" would mean exactly
20090323 12:01:21< Taliesin_> There are hints that the Drake's are a kind of infant form of dragons who have forgotten how to move on.
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20090323 12:02:30< Taliesin_> Firin hopes to rediscover that, and has roped Bellemor in with the prospect of turning him into a true dragon, likely including arguments about how he is a paragon of the Drake's fundemental nature, and thus a perfect 'test subject'.
20090323 12:03:00< Taliesin_> Hence a hunt for old knowledge.
20090323 12:04:43< zookeeper> well, sounds fine as a premise for a campaign, but the story would need to shift to some more concrete goals pretty soon i guess
20090323 12:05:00< zookeeper> hunting for knowledge doesn't make for very many interesting battles
20090323 12:05:19< Taliesin_> Depends on the consequences.
20090323 12:05:48< Taliesin_> So far, I'm thinking a series of smash & grab raids on targets likely to have that kind of knowledge, which of course creates a lot of people who are royally ticked off with you.
20090323 12:07:55< grzybacz> How would Firin convince his "brothers at arms" to take part in these raids?
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20090323 12:08:05< voris> Raiding the local House of Ancient Lore for your Tome of Dragon Awesomeness is a concrete goal.
20090323 12:08:21< Taliesin_> The prospect of becoming a true dragon, of course.
20090323 12:08:58< Taliesin_> In actuality, mind, Firin intends to use Bellemor as little more than bodyguards for his quest so HE can become a dragon to show them all! (The fools!) He's got a lot of unexpressed resentment about the whole "being treated like dirt for daring to be smart" thing going on, so while he DOES intend to share the knowledge of how to become a dragon, he wants time to gain his own glory as the...
20090323 12:08:59< Taliesin_> ..."first dragon since the old times" before he brings anybody else up to his level.
20090323 12:09:00< grzybacz> So Drakes actually feel inferior and would love to get back to their True forms?
20090323 12:09:36< Taliesin_> I'm not sure if it's a matter of actually feeling inferior, so much as a sense of lost glories.
20090323 12:09:50< Taliesin_> Like "we're still way better than everybody else, but we are not what we once were"
20090323 12:10:03< zookeeper> voris, yeah, but you can't have many consecutive raid-to-get-a-tome scenarios, it gets pretty repetitive
20090323 12:10:10< voris> Sure.
20090323 12:10:24< voris> If it's nothing but that, yawn.
20090323 12:10:26< zookeeper> a couple of them, sure
20090323 12:10:27< Taliesin_> Aye. Three, tops. And by the third, you've got your previous victims hunting you.
20090323 12:11:02< Taliesin_> Then it's less about GETTING the knowledge as running away from the screaming hordes who want your head on a plate in vengeance, while trying to find somewhere defensible you can study it.
20090323 12:11:36< voris> So these drakes are Aryans.
20090323 12:12:18< Taliesin_> That culminates in a defense mission with Firin setting up a supposedly quick-to-perform ritual that takes a while to prepare. Of course, he's actually performing the ritual on himself, because of the above reasons.
20090323 12:12:33< grzybacz> Raids sound ok to begin with. What if the most valuable pieces of knowledge are actually guarded by some badass enemies that can't be easily raided? How can one convince the Elven Lords to share that knowledge if they still remember the terror of the dragons?
20090323 12:12:47< voris> You could have Firin invade Poland. That'll cause plenty of conflict. ;)
20090323 12:12:52< zookeeper> uh oh.
20090323 12:13:28< Taliesin_> Precisely. Doubtless you can smash up the Undead without reprisal, and probably attack the Loyalists with impunity. But raiding Elves? On their own territory? Not so easy.
20090323 12:13:55< grzybacz> Taliesin_: an ancient lich might want to trick Ferin into something, seeing how much he wants that knowledge
20090323 12:14:19< grzybacz> Those undead are devious. ;-)
20090323 12:15:00< Taliesin_> Possible, that. Raid an undead stronghold while the Lich is away, kill the apprentice due to him being in the way, the Lich tracks you down and pulls the "you killed my apprentice, so you're obviously better than he was" number...
20090323 12:15:31< grzybacz> Taliesin_: well, being drakes, they could set fires to the forests. ;-)
20090323 12:16:42< Taliesin_> Heh, there is that. Best to give the Elves an incentive for accepting as well though, instead of just a reason not to refuse.
20090323 12:16:48< zookeeper> Taliesin_, btw, have you read the drake racial description?
20090323 12:16:49< grzybacz> I'm sure expanding fires could be scripted to make it more dramatic.
20090323 12:16:56< zookeeper> (the one in-game and in the wiki etc)
20090323 12:17:07< Taliesin_> I read the wiki, sure.
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20090323 12:17:57< zookeeper> Taliesin_, ok. i was just thinking that drakes going around invading and raiding other folks would maybe best suite some kind of a renegade band of drakes
20090323 12:19:49< Taliesin_> I figured as much. I was thinking they'd start out as part of a major clan (tribe? Clan? Wing? Eh.), but Firin would... Misrepresent what his quest would involve to the higher-ups in order to get troops and funding, then hare off to do his own thing.
20090323 12:19:50< voris> Yeah, that was the thought I had which led to my tongue-in-cheek master race comments.
20090323 12:20:27< zookeeper> sounds good to me. that way you could even have them fight their actual clan at some point
20090323 12:20:46< Taliesin_> So, you'd start out loyalist, but you'd definitely be going VERY rogue.
20090323 12:21:11< zookeeper> so, how would it end then?
20090323 12:21:35< zookeeper> do you get to be a lvl5 dragon-drake or not ;)?
20090323 12:23:31< Taliesin_> Hang on, multitasking.
20090323 12:24:05< grzybacz> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/Ludwig_der_Squig/pixelart/dragon_fire_attack_ne_wip3.jpg
20090323 12:24:08< grzybacz> ;-)
20090323 12:24:21< Taliesin_> I figure the campaign would culminate in a defense mission with Bellemor holding off the enraged Elves, Loyalists Undead (probably coming from a different direction- otherwise they'd pummel each other too) and maybe your own clan too.
20090323 12:25:34< Taliesin_> He's doing it under the impression that he'll become a dragon, but after about a day, he believes it's been long enough and heads inside and finds a very large egg. Then the attacks heat up, and assuming you can hold them off for say, a week, out emerges Firin in full draconic glory. Cue asskicking.
20090323 12:26:26< zookeeper> http://www.pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF231-Baby.jpg
20090323 12:26:31< Taliesin_> So yes, you do get to be a full dragon.
20090323 12:27:00< Taliesin_> Wouldn't be much of a climax if the entire point of the quest didn't come to pass, after all!
20090323 12:27:05< grzybacz> zookeeper: +1
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20090323 12:28:06< MaximB> yeah, we do need more campaigns for drakes and undead ... we got so much of the other races.
20090323 12:28:06< voris> Nice, zookeeper.
20090323 12:29:43< zookeeper> Taliesin_, ok..
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20090323 12:31:17< Taliesin_> I figure it creates a nice issue of tension that Firin is so willing to employ deception to get what he wants- especially among Drakes, who usually hate that sort of thing. ESPECIALLY with something as massive as a true dragon. You could get talk of "we should smash the egg, and remove his stain from our people's honour!" countered by the point that whatever else Firin is, he's still...
20090323 12:31:19< Taliesin_> ...becoming a dragon. I figure the idea of a real dragon coming back would be a nigh-religious experience for Drake's.
20090323 12:32:44< zookeeper> i'm not sure about the egg thing though :)
20090323 12:33:04< Taliesin_> Oh? Why not? It certainly makes a good centrepiece to defend.
20090323 12:33:20< grzybacz> So he transforms into an eggo?
20090323 12:33:25< grzybacz> *egg
20090323 12:34:10< Taliesin_> No, the ritual builds a cocoon around him that hardens until it's pretty much an egg.
20090323 12:34:23< Taliesin_> A really, really big one.
20090323 12:35:51< grzybacz> That sounds better. :-)
20090323 12:35:56< zookeeper> i guess that might work
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20090323 12:37:04< Taliesin_> And yes, I know it's absurd that something like a drake can grow that huge to be a dragon in a single week...
20090323 12:37:16< Taliesin_> But... Well... Magic damn you!
20090323 12:37:56< grzybacz> I think it's ok. WINR.
20090323 12:38:23< Taliesin_> Yay me then.
20090323 12:38:36< grzybacz> Do you plan to involve Saurians?
20090323 12:39:40< Taliesin_> I'm not sure, actually. Probably, yeah. They'd make good allies for Firin, and everybody needs scouts.
20090323 12:40:36< grzybacz> Gliders are good scouts.
20090323 12:40:48< Taliesin_> True that. Just remembered those after I said that.
20090323 12:41:25< Taliesin_> It might be worth doing without them actually. Giving Firin a bunch of people he can relate to might ruin the atmosphere. Of course, that removes the Drake's only healer.
20090323 12:41:53< grzybacz> It's a matter of balancing, but that can be done in campaigns.
20090323 12:41:56< voris> They don't really have a buy in motivation.
20090323 12:42:09< Taliesin_> Very true, on both counts.
20090323 12:43:13< zookeeper> well, i guess you could make something special to make them more attractive to have
20090323 12:43:53< zookeeper> like, have a scenario where you only get to use a saurian detachment or something
20090323 12:44:11< Taliesin_> I don't know. I like the idea of it being a Drake's-only matter. Besides, with all the fleeing they'd be doing, you can't really expect a bunch of ground-pounders to keep up.
20090323 12:44:37< Taliesin_> Although, early on, a saurian-only mission acting as scouts for the oncoming force of drakes could work out well.
20090323 12:44:58< Taliesin_> Say, finding out how well-defended the Undead are; whether the Lich is at home, for example.
20090323 12:46:07< zookeeper> well, i guess the thing you should come up with next is a clear scenario plan. how many scenarios, what happens in each one, and so on.
20090323 12:46:41< zookeeper> and where they actually take place geographically
20090323 12:46:45< Taliesin_> Already on it.
20090323 12:47:08< Taliesin_> It'd help if there was a map with territories marked out. Like, do the Undead have any clearly-defined lands?
20090323 12:47:38< Taliesin_> Or the Drakes, for that matter. Although that's less important; wings makes for a very wide area of influence.
20090323 12:48:19< zookeeper> well, territories depend on the particular time, too
20090323 12:49:09< zookeeper> all the mainline references to drakes on the great continent are somewhere on the north mountains
20090323 12:49:42< grzybacz> That's weird. I'd expect them to live closer to deserts...
20090323 12:50:23< grzybacz> Esp. given the defense values.
20090323 12:50:26< Taliesin_> Elves are pretty much in any large forest, aren't they?
20090323 12:50:33< zookeeper> Taliesin_, yes
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20090323 12:50:52< zookeeper> grzybacz, well you can always put a volcano somewhere in there
20090323 12:51:02< zookeeper> i bet they'd like to live there
20090323 12:51:18< grzybacz> yeah
20090323 12:51:56< zookeeper> and i don't think their cold vulnerability means that they'll care if the temperature drops below zero
20090323 12:52:35< zookeeper> it'd be kinda silly for those big fire-breathing half-dragons to get a cold IMO
20090323 12:52:39< Taliesin_> Nah. Who cares if it's chilly when you've gto firein your belly- literally!
20090323 12:53:13< zookeeper> besides there aren't much deserts on the great continent, except in the far east
20090323 12:54:03< voris> With some exceptions, deserts tend to have a dearth of high spots anyway.
20090323 12:54:21< voris> Don't they like hanging out in high spots?
20090323 12:54:40< Taliesin_> I'd assume so.
20090323 12:54:58< voris> I seem to remember that from the back story.
20090323 12:55:08< Taliesin_> Okay, so the Loyalists seem to be down the southeast, right?
20090323 12:55:20< grzybacz> yes
20090323 12:55:26< zookeeper> that's where wesnoth is
20090323 12:55:29< grzybacz> at least in the httt times
20090323 12:55:49< Taliesin_> Do the Undead have any central location, or are they just scattered around hither and thither?
20090323 12:55:53< zookeeper> scattered
20090323 12:56:22< Taliesin_> Hmm... And Orcs pretty much get everywhere.
20090323 12:56:40< Taliesin_> One of those constants of fantasy: There are orcs everywhere. Damn things are like roaches.
20090323 12:56:52< zookeeper> Taliesin_, so how would that transformation work story-wise? is it a spell (how do drakes manage that?)? some special location?
20090323 12:57:16< Taliesin_> I figure it's a matter of MAKING a special location.
20090323 12:57:42< zookeeper> (maybe they'd need spellcasters like oracles for that)
20090323 12:57:58< Taliesin_> Magic gets involved too. As for how Drakes can manage that... Firin isn't your average drake. He's no mage, but he definitely knows enough to get a ritual going.
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20090323 13:04:12< zookeeper> how many scenarios roughly are you aiming for?
20090323 13:04:55< zookeeper> since it's drakes only, i don't think it should be too long. only 4 lvl1 units with only two having any branching can get boring if the campaign is too long.
20090323 13:05:21< zookeeper> (unless you create more units)
20090323 13:05:52< Taliesin_> Might be problematic, that. I have concrete ideas for 5 or 6, depending on how they're made, with ideas for one, MAYBE two more.
20090323 13:06:25< zookeeper> well, i think anything <10 is surely fine
20090323 13:09:27< zookeeper> but firin sounds like he could well use a custom unit line
20090323 13:10:45< zookeeper> anyways, i gotta be going, whenever you get more planned i can take a look at them
20090323 13:11:25< Taliesin_> Yeah, I was thinking the same thing for Firin.
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20090323 13:43:46< nihil-01> could it be that the new 1.6 version is a little bit faster then the version 1.4
20090323 13:45:12< Rhonda> could well be
20090323 13:46:29< nihil-01> if i logon the new 1.6 server an account is asked. my forum account work fine, ut if i choose the option save the password to a txt, where is this file located?
20090323 13:46:49< Rhonda> In ~/.wesnoth1.6/
20090323 13:47:16< Rhonda> In the preferences file, key password
20090323 13:47:41< Rhonda> And gladly the file is set to mode 600 :)
20090323 13:47:57< Rhonda> But it still means other people with root permission are able to read it.
20090323 13:48:23< nihil-01> Rhonda: ah thanks
20090323 13:50:03< elias> how does authentication to the server work? i hope the password is never sent to it
20090323 13:50:14< nihil-01> there are deadline when the version 1.4x and it server is going to nonsupperted anymore?
20090323 13:50:50< nihil-01> elias: the account is the same like the wesnoth forum account
20090323 13:51:24< Ivanovic> moin
20090323 13:51:27< nihil-01> elias: but u can also use a nonregistrated account
20090323 13:53:02< nihil-01> i hope the most addon of the 1.4x will be ported to 1.6x as soon as
20090323 13:53:21< Shadow_Master> elias: I think it is, better ask Baufo
20090323 13:55:33 * voris curses his folly for having linked his bank account with his wesnoth forum account
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20090323 17:36:36< grzybacz> Blueblaze: :)
20090323 17:37:28< Blueblaze> hey
20090323 17:37:49 * Blueblaze had something in particular to mention but he forgot what it was :/
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20090323 17:54:31< Narugawa> hi
20090323 17:55:24< grzybacz> hi
20090323 17:56:26-!- Shadow_Master [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth
20090323 17:57:17< Shadow_Master> hi
20090323 17:58:51-!- Polarina [n=polarina@freecode-project/mentor/polarina] has joined #wesnoth
20090323 17:59:03< Polarina> http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/23/042215
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20090323 18:14:46< Shadow_Master> heh
20090323 18:15:58< Shadow_Master> hah.
20090323 18:16:45< Shadow_Master> hah - he, heh.
20090323 18:22:25< Shadow_Master> nice to see how it slowly turns into an every-week w.o forum newbies discussion
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20090323 18:50:16< grzywacz> Blueblaze, and back :p
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20090323 20:23:43< Polarina> How should I install wesnoth 1.6 on Debian Stable?
20090323 20:31:10-!- vargavind [n=kess@90-231-233-50-no109.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #wesnoth
20090323 20:33:31< fendrin> Polarina: wait for it appearing in the http://backports.org/dokuwiki/doku.php repository or compile it from source.
20090323 20:34:44< Polarina> fendrin: Thanks. I found Wesnoth 1.6 in sid.
20090323 20:35:38< fendrin> Polarina: installing packages from sid does taint some system libraries of your stable installation. Are you sure you want that?
20090323 20:36:36< Polarina> fendrin: It was just few stuff I never use. :)
20090323 20:37:51< fendrin> Polarina: it should fetch a new glibc version and you do use that all the time. 
20090323 20:38:32< Polarina> It didn't pull in any system critical updates here.
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20090323 20:39:09< fendrin> Polarina: Okay, enjoy the game :-)
20090323 20:39:17< Polarina> fendrin: You too! :D
20090323 20:39:23< fendrin> Thanks
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20090323 20:43:59< Thoradin> hi
20090323 20:44:17< Thoradin> just downloaded and "scons"ed the latest release
20090323 20:44:38< Thoradin> but I cannot play the latest campagne "wesmere"
20090323 20:45:14< Thoradin> wesnoth-1.6a/data/core/units/trolls/Troll.cfg reports parsing errors
20090323 20:45:24< Thoradin> but i cannot find the problem
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20090323 20:48:58< Thoradin> heres the console output http://pastebin.ca/1369452
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20090323 20:51:29< fabi> Thoradin: It seems you don't have installed wesnoth global.
20090323 20:51:40< fabi> Thoradin: can you try this with sudo scons install?
20090323 20:53:08< Thoradin> @fabi does it matter that i have the old stable already installed via the distributions binaries?
20090323 20:54:34< fabi> Thoradin: use scons version_suffix="_1.6" to build a version that uses different config dirs.
20090323 20:55:09< Thoradin> ok, i sweep the old one first ;)
20090323 20:55:35< fabi> Thoradin: I don't see the need for that but if you prefer ...
20090323 20:56:29< Thoradin> well, i only play once at a time and already played the latest release candidate...did not seem to fail, so the old one is out of mind soon ;)
20090323 20:58:01< Thoradin> hmm, this seems not to fix the problem....
20090323 20:58:24< Thoradin> i could start wesnoth 1.6 without the buildpath, so it should be the global version
20090323 20:59:12< Thoradin> http://pastebin.ca/1369467
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20090323 21:02:25< fabi> Thoradin: did you wipe out you old /usr/local/share/wesnoth ?
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20090323 21:05:22< Thoradin> @fabi hmm, maybe the rpm-remove did not work...i will clean it by hand now...
20090323 21:06:24< fendrin> Thoradin: you also need to remove .wesnoth/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere
20090323 21:06:33< fendrin> in your home
20090323 21:06:39< Thoradin> @fendrin aah, i see
20090323 21:07:03< fendrin> That should have done the trick.
20090323 21:07:44< Thoradin> yeah, i already played the campain before in an old release
20090323 21:08:04< Thoradin> but i read it would be a new campaing in 1.6 so i did not check the name
20090323 21:10:41< Thoradin> It works, thanks @fendrin & @fabi ... I'm off for a few hours now.... :-D
20090323 21:11:22< fendrin> Thoradin: bye
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20090323 21:12:07< SynrG> sure love wesnoth on my eeepc on the bus :)
20090323 21:12:32< SynrG> campaigns, naturally
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20090323 21:44:31< Polarina> The music in Wesnoth is GPLv2+, right?
20090323 21:44:48< Blueblaze> yeah
20090323 21:45:24< Polarina> I want the source code for the music (the preferred form of editing).
20090323 21:46:07< Polarina> Where do I get that?
20090323 21:46:30< zookeeper> nowhere
20090323 21:46:55< Polarina> If you don't provide it to users who request it, it's a breach of the GPLv2.
20090323 21:47:43< zookeeper> so i've been told
20090323 21:48:41< zookeeper> i think the official stance would be that GPL doesn't apply well to music files so the .ogg's are actually to be considered the source
20090323 21:49:05< zookeeper> just like the sprites and portraits themselves don't have any other sources than the images themselves
20090323 21:49:06< Polarina> zookeeper: Let me quote the GPL for you.
20090323 21:49:09< Polarina>   The "source code" for a work means the preferred form of the work
20090323 21:49:09< Polarina> for making modifications to it.  "Object code" means any non-source
20090323 21:49:09< Polarina> form of a work.
20090323 21:49:51< zookeeper> i'm well aware of the wording
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20090323 21:57:47< zookeeper> Polarina, just out of curiosity, what were you planning on doing with the sources of which track(s)?
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20090323 21:58:25< Polarina> Studying.
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20090323 22:00:56< lizard_r> Polarina, http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=21082
20090323 22:00:56< lizard_r> here is a discusion of the iusse, you may have luck asking the artist friendly, like s.o. did in the thead. (LeGrande, page 3)
20090323 22:01:52< lizard_r> but don't revive the therad ;-)
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20090323 22:15:40 * Polarina revives the thread. :P
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20090323 22:54:57< nihil-01> the 2nd server for version 1.6 is offline? (server2.wesnoth.org:15000)
20090323 22:55:06< nihil-01> the 2nd server for version 1.6 is offline? (server2.wesnoth.org:15000)
20090323 22:55:58< Shadow_Master> one question is enough :)
20090323 22:57:16< Shadow_Master> looks like it is. Perhaps it's just temporar.
20090323 22:57:18< Shadow_Master> *y
20090323 23:00:29< Polarina> Why didn't Wesnoth use port 1337?
20090323 23:00:54< Shadow_Master> I have no idea, but I bet it is already in use for WoW...
20090323 23:01:07< Polarina> WoW doesn't use 1337þ
20090323 23:01:11< Polarina> s/þ/./
20090323 23:01:39< Shadow_Master> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_TCP_and_UDP_port_numbers
20090323 23:01:49< Shadow_Master> p2p and encryption stuff
20090323 23:02:18< Polarina> Oh.
20090323 23:02:28< Shadow_Master> niniiice, we share ports with an IRC bouncer :P
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20090323 23:08:17< Polarina> Oh no. Port 666 is used up. :(
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--- Log closed Tue Mar 24 00:00:25 2009