--- Log opened Thu Apr 02 00:00:30 2009
--- Day changed Thu Apr 02 2009
20090402 00:00:30< aeonphyxius> Sparks_: hi
20090402 00:00:33-!- res|laptop [n=res@pdpc/supporter/student/res2k] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090402 00:01:33< aeonphyxius> I don't know exactly how to start....
20090402 00:03:04< Sparks_> aeonphyxius: what do you mean?
20090402 00:03:16< aeonphyxius> I has been looking in your web, project web
20090402 00:03:18< aeonphyxius> svn
20090402 00:03:18< aeonphyxius> stc
20090402 00:03:20< aeonphyxius> ect
20090402 00:03:23< aeonphyxius> etc
20090402 00:03:32< aeonphyxius> (sorry for that)
20090402 00:03:44-!- IneQuation [i=1286@2001:470:1f09:409:0:0:0:1286] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
20090402 00:03:48< aeonphyxius> I was trying to apply for the google summer code
20090402 00:04:03-!- _deleter [n=_deleter@adamsrj-1.dhcp.rose-hulman.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 00:04:26< Crab_> aeonphyxius: so set up a wiki page about yourself, pick up a project (or propose one), and ask questions here )
20090402 00:04:57< Ivanovic> aeonphyxius: read the wiki, create a proposal, submit it to google, talk to us about it
20090402 00:05:16< aeonphyxius> thanks
20090402 00:05:21< aeonphyxius> I am reading the wiki
20090402 00:05:25< aeonphyxius> and preparing the proposal
20090402 00:05:28< Ivanovic> that is a good start
20090402 00:05:49-!- JW1 [n=X@c-71-57-85-168.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit []
20090402 00:06:48< aeonphyxius> everyone here is it a developer?
20090402 00:07:10< Sparks_> some more xperienced than others :)  but yes...
20090402 00:07:24< aeonphyxius> wow, it is a big grup
20090402 00:07:31-!- YogiHH [n=chatzill@c187082.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 00:07:40< aeonphyxius> or team
20090402 00:08:03< YogiHH> hello everyone
20090402 00:09:12< Ivanovic> hi YogiHH
20090402 00:09:19< aeonphyxius> I mean from wesnoth project
20090402 00:09:19< Crab_> hi YogiHH
20090402 00:09:22< Ivanovic> aeonphyxius: not everyone is a developer
20090402 00:09:25< aeonphyxius> hi YogiHH
20090402 00:09:32< Ivanovic> aeonphyxius: that is we got some bots in here and such
20090402 00:09:40< Turuk> And some random users
20090402 00:09:44< Ivanovic> some people are just lurkers
20090402 00:09:48< Ivanovic> stuff like this
20090402 00:10:09< Turuk> Some of us have tasks that aren't suited to development but deal with other areas as well ;)
20090402 00:10:09< Ivanovic> though those in here with a cloack that includes a @wesnoth/SOMETHING are definitely related to wesnoth
20090402 00:10:26< Ivanovic> (though some people did not want to have a cloak so far or might have different cloaks)
20090402 00:10:40< Sparks_> YogiHH:  hello...
20090402 00:10:54< YogiHH> hi Sparks_ :-)
20090402 00:11:06-!- _deleter [n=_deleter@adamsrj-1.dhcp.rose-hulman.edu] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
20090402 00:11:10< Ivanovic> and not every dev logs in at nickserv, so the cloak is not always active
20090402 00:11:13 * Ivanovic looks at YogiHH...
20090402 00:11:14< Ivanovic> ;)
20090402 00:11:19-!- _deleter [n=_deleter@adamsrj-1.dhcp.rose-hulman.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 00:11:52< Sparks_> you ready for another round.... :)  (just kidding....)
20090402 00:12:06< YogiHH> :-)
20090402 00:12:26-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 00:12:58< YogiHH> Ivanovic: hmm, that's probably because my internet connection wasn't active when i first tried to join...
20090402 00:13:11< Ivanovic> might be
20090402 00:13:32-!- YogiHH [n=chatzill@c187082.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]"]
20090402 00:13:50-!- YogiHH [n=chatzill@c187082.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 00:17:37< Sparks_> YogiHH:  ummm....  I took your advice...  and wrote a fairly detailed run-through o fthe kind of ides I was talking about....  if you have a little time... it'll be great if you wouldn't mind looking at my proposal  (new section at beginning of section 2).  Also I uploaded a nice little java program I made last summer to forum in support of my coding skills :P  ...
20090402 00:18:02< Sparks_> if you're too busy thats fine too :)
20090402 00:18:32< YogiHH> i'll take a short look
20090402 00:19:36< Ivanovic> and i will now have a longer and more detailed look at my pillow
20090402 00:19:38< Ivanovic> n8
20090402 00:19:44< Sparks_> YogiHH:  the new bits are mainly 2.1 and 2.2 ... rest are fairly same... also the link to my progrma is at top of page...
20090402 00:20:06< Sparks_> Ivanovic:  lol  I always seem to come when people are heading off to bed.. :P
20090402 00:20:36< Ivanovic> hey, it is post midnight over here
20090402 00:20:57< Sparks_> how much though... :)
20090402 00:21:06< Sparks_> +1hr or 5 :P
20090402 00:21:59< YogiHH> Sparks_: 2.1 is "what the proof-of-concept should include" ?
20090402 00:22:27-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has quit ["night all"]
20090402 00:23:55< Sparks_> yup...  just some general descriptions of aims of some of the 'features' whichshould be demonstrate dint he proof of concept (at end of 3 months)..
20090402 00:25:40< aeonphyxius> Ivanovic: I am following the the instructions of the wiki
20090402 00:26:01< aeonphyxius> I am not yet a GSoC student, but I have all of the accounts
20090402 00:26:22< aeonphyxius> should I ask you (or other admin) to mark it as GSoC
20090402 00:26:33-!- Lord_Aether [n=castle@206.170.190.49] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 00:26:47< Sparks_> aeonphyxius:  have you submitted an app via google?  cos I didn't knwo about that till a  few days ago and had a bit of a panic about it :)
20090402 00:27:52< aeonphyxius> not yet, I am a bit lost, about the timing
20090402 00:28:06< Ivanovic> aeonphyxius: Turuk can add you in the forum group
20090402 00:28:08< aeonphyxius> should I follow the steps and then send the app
20090402 00:28:12< aeonphyxius> or in the other way
20090402 00:28:18< Turuk> Will do
20090402 00:28:19< Ivanovic> and submit your proposal ASAP to google, so that it is not lost!
20090402 00:28:20< CIA-30> crab * r34378 /trunk/ (changelog src/formula_ai.cpp): 
20090402 00:28:20< CIA-30> Fixed bug #13295. enemy_units formula now ignores incapacitated units,
20090402 00:28:20< CIA-30> such as statues in the 'Caves of The Basilisk'
20090402 00:28:31< Sparks_>  aeonphyxius:  submit the google app... you can still edit ater...
20090402 00:28:46< Sparks_> april 3rd is the deadline :)
20090402 00:28:52< Turuk> aeonphyxius: Done.  You are added to the Summer of Code group.
20090402 00:29:21< Sparks_> btw Ivanovic: quick question... is the deadline end of april 3rd or beginning?  and can we still edit wiki after?
20090402 00:29:45< aeonphyxius> Turuk: thanks
20090402 00:30:03< Crab_> Dragonking, benetnash - enemy_units formula now (in trunk, that is) ignores incapacitated units, such as statues.
20090402 00:30:15< Crab_> Dragonking: should I backport it to 1.6 ?
20090402 00:30:20< Dragonking> Crab_: Great
20090402 00:30:48< Dragonking> I wonder
20090402 00:31:10< Dragonking> I think you can.
20090402 00:31:15< Crab_> ok
20090402 00:32:39< Ivanovic> Sparks_: it is the deadline to get the stuff to google
20090402 00:32:59< Ivanovic> Sparks_: you can still alter your application in the wiki and we will go through the applications then to give comments
20090402 00:33:21-!- Zen_Clark [n=user@99-136-80-191.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 00:33:32< Ivanovic> and yes, you should take all those comments serious and react upon them (and also add a message that you have altered things to reflect our comments)
20090402 00:33:36< Sparks_> Ivanovic:  cool...  o and did your team win in the football?  :)
20090402 00:33:46< Ivanovic> of course!
20090402 00:33:50< Ivanovic> ;)
20090402 00:34:02< Sparks_> Wales..... ?
20090402 00:34:43< Ivanovic> what makes you think that wales is my team?
20090402 00:35:03< Sparks_> just guessing... bad guess...?   ... ... ;P
20090402 00:35:56< YogiHH> Crab_: I can't start wesnoth, the program stops at a log message in ai_configuration::create_default_ai_parameters()
20090402 00:36:37< Crab_> YogiHH; it segfaults ?
20090402 00:37:31-!- wildpenguin [n=chpln@ppp121-45-157-74.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 00:37:52< YogiHH> Crab_: sort of, it tells me about a "severe error in visual studio C runtime library"
20090402 00:38:31< Crab_> he-he ) the purpose of ai_configuration::create_default_ai_parameters() is  just to initialize a static class member ai_configuration::default_ai_parameters_
20090402 00:39:09< Crab_> YogiHH: is it with unmodified trunk ?
20090402 00:39:40< YogiHH> Crab_: Weird, it seems like the log_domains vector is empty
20090402 00:39:48< Crab_> weird
20090402 00:39:49< YogiHH> Crab_: yes, unmodified trunk
20090402 00:40:15< loonycyborg> YogiHH: You're compiling with msvc, right?
20090402 00:40:22< YogiHH> yes
20090402 00:41:00< loonycyborg> Trunk starts successfully for me..
20090402 00:42:31< loonycyborg> So this is something either win32-specific or msvc-specific :P
20090402 00:42:37< Crab_> YogiHH, I'd try a "clean recompile" first...
20090402 00:42:52 * YogiHH did that already :(
20090402 00:43:32< Crab_> YogiHH: ( then another stupid question "when it worked last time" ?
20090402 00:43:50-!- crimson_p [n=irchon@204.239.250.1] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 00:43:54< YogiHH> Crab_: before i updated from svn a couple of minutes ago
20090402 00:44:32-!- crimson_p [n=irchon@204.239.250.1] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 00:44:44 * Crab_ goes to see the list of recent commits...
20090402 00:45:37-!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 00:46:40< Ivanovic> okay, really off to bed now, n8 (again)
20090402 00:46:49-!- stikonas [n=stikonas@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 00:47:23< aeonphyxius> gnight
20090402 00:47:29< Velory> n8 Ivanovic
20090402 00:47:40< Sparks_> Ivanovic: gnight, hope you have a very comfy pillow .... :P
20090402 00:47:46< Velory> :P
20090402 00:47:48< YogiHH> Crab_: ah, i think the project file is messed up
20090402 00:47:51< Velory> and sweet dreams
20090402 00:48:10< Crab_> YogiHH: ah ) so it's msvc )
20090402 00:48:48< aeonphyxius> hheheeh, hey guys everyone it is so sweet here :-)
20090402 00:48:55-!- ikarius [n=ross@smtp.gridironsystems.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 00:48:56< aeonphyxius> is it always like this?
20090402 00:49:25-!- ikarius [n=ross@smtp.gridironsystems.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 00:49:29< Turuk> well, it is april fools day....
20090402 00:49:38< aeonphyxius> rigth
20090402 00:49:45< aeonphyxius> I completly forget... again... 
20090402 00:49:55< aeonphyxius> well, not for me anymore...hehehee
20090402 00:50:19< Velory> aeonphyxius:  what time is it there 
20090402 00:50:25< aeonphyxius> 0:50
20090402 00:50:32< Velory> hmm so gmt +!
20090402 00:50:35< Sparks_> aeonphyxius:  I haven't done anythign particularlyl interesting for April fools this year....  the things we use to do as kids .. :P
20090402 00:50:38< Velory> 01.50 here :)
20090402 00:50:59< aeonphyxius> :P
20090402 00:51:48< aeonphyxius> I just realise this coz someone told me, I am busy this days preparing everything for GSoC lot of work
20090402 00:52:56< Sparks_> aeonphyxius:  which project are you on?
20090402 00:54:02-!- Lord_Aether [n=castle@206.170.190.49] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 00:54:30< aeonphyxius> I would like the AI and u?
20090402 01:02:58< Sparks_> same :)
20090402 01:03:10< Sparks_> sorry... I was busy browing stuff..
20090402 01:03:16< Sparks_> browsing
20090402 01:06:08< aeonphyxius> me too hehe
20090402 01:06:55< aeonphyxius> there is a lot to do
20090402 01:06:59-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@c-68-49-10-243.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 01:09:30-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has quit ["Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"]
20090402 01:09:54< Sparks_> ok good night everyone.... :)  time to hit the pillows...
20090402 01:10:03< Velory> Sparks_:  good nites :) 
20090402 01:10:17< Sparks_> :)
20090402 01:10:18-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@wesnoth/bot/loonybot] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 01:10:22-!- Sparks_ [n=Sparkste@78-105-212-150.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090402 01:10:27< aeonphyxius> gnigth
20090402 01:19:09< CIA-30> alink * r34379 /trunk/src/ (multiplayer_connect.cpp multiplayer_wait.cpp): 
20090402 01:19:09< CIA-30> Fix bug #13243, missing column and wrong order of info in some multiplayer UI.
20090402 01:19:09< CIA-30> This mainly revert r29879 except the change in playcampaign.cpp which seems to
20090402 01:19:09< CIA-30> have changed too much to need it. Not sure yet how to backport it to 1.6.
20090402 01:19:09< CIA-30> It also resurrect a (internal, I think) user_description key but any name works
20090402 01:20:59< alink> ^yes, it will probably be tricky to fix it in 1.6 :-(
20090402 01:21:47< alink> I don't really tried though, so maybe it's more easy than I think
20090402 01:22:49-!- crimson_p [n=irchon@204.239.250.1] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 01:24:03< alink> But funny how mixing and removing columns there was never noticed :-)
20090402 01:24:33-!- _deleter [n=_deleter@adamsrj-1.dhcp.rose-hulman.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090402 01:24:53< alink> (that is where you see other players factions and wait that the host launches the game)
20090402 01:25:07< Dragonking> Ivanovic: Proposal submitted.
20090402 01:25:55< CIA-30> soliton * r34380 /branches/1.6/src/server/game.cpp: observers don't end games; lobbies don't need replays saved
20090402 01:26:18< CIA-30> soliton * r34381 /trunk/src/server/game.cpp: observers don't end games; lobbies don't need replays saved
20090402 01:27:41-!- niadh [n=niadh@78-86-134-181.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
20090402 01:28:12-!- voris [n=voris@c-24-16-107-149.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 01:29:25-!- YogiHH [n=chatzill@wesnoth/developer/yogihh] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]"]
20090402 01:29:51-!- voris [n=voris@c-24-16-107-149.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 01:33:03< CIA-30> alink * r34382 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): update changelogs
20090402 01:40:51-!- Polarina [n=polarina@wesnoth/translator/Polarina] has quit ["Leaving."]
20090402 01:41:53-!- _deleter [n=_deleter@137.112.104.37] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 01:43:05< CIA-30> crab * r34383 /branches/1.6/ (changelog src/formula_ai.cpp): 
20090402 01:43:05< CIA-30> backported r34378 from trunk - fixed bug #13295 - enemy_units formula now
20090402 01:43:05< CIA-30> ignores incapacitated units such as statues in the 'Caves of The Basilisk'
20090402 01:46:53-!- YogiHH [n=chatzill@c187082.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 01:49:31-!- crimson_p [n=irchon@204.239.250.1] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 01:49:39< CIA-30> jhinrichs * r34384 /trunk/src/play_controller.cpp: Fix engine problem (loading a savegame from turn 1 will give all subsequent teams income where it should not do so).
20090402 01:50:59< YogiHH> Crab_: commenting the Log message within create_default_ai_parameters makes wesnoth start again over here. It seems, that the static initializer is executed before the log_domains vector is filled.
20090402 01:51:35< Crab_> comment it out then.
20090402 01:55:28< Crab_> it is interesting that it works fine on g++ ( 4.3 )
20090402 01:56:33< YogiHH> yeah...
20090402 01:57:32< Crab_> YogiHH, and, create_default_ai_paramenters uses config class a bit. so, if someone adds some more logging into config class, this situation may repeat itself, isn't it ?
20090402 01:58:14< YogiHH> Crab_: most likely, yes
20090402 01:58:31-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090402 01:59:23< Crab_> YogiHH, so, to root out the cause, we need to fix logging to make log_domains be filled rather early.
20090402 02:00:27< YogiHH> Crab_: either that or ai_configuration initializing later, but that would probably only delay the problem
20090402 02:00:45< Crab_> YogiHH: this will fix this particular usage only.
20090402 02:01:28< YogiHH> Crab_: yes, i know, that's why it will probably pop up some other time again
20090402 02:01:52 * Crab_ even knows when that *some other time* will be...
20090402 02:05:24-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 02:05:26< Crab_> YogiHH, ok, while thinking what to do, I'll avoid logging code in static initializers
20090402 02:07:12-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 02:07:35< YogiHH> Crab_: good, thanks :-)
20090402 02:14:30-!- Elvish_Pillage2 [n=eli@66-189-40-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 02:16:58-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@66-189-40-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090402 02:27:30< CIA-30> crab * r34385 /trunk/src/ (ai_configuration.cpp ai_configuration.hpp): Delay default AI parameter initialization. This fixes a MSVC runtime error.
20090402 02:27:32< Crab_> YogiHH, ^^^^
20090402 02:28:11< YogiHH> Crab_: the permanent solution is more difficult?
20090402 02:28:47< Crab_> YogiHH: I am still thinking about it.
20090402 02:29:02< YogiHH> ok
20090402 02:31:24< Soliton> there were problems before with static initialization order. i think it's undefined behaviour?
20090402 02:31:29< Velory> gn8 everyone :)
20090402 02:31:33-!- Velory [n=GProcess@88.227.115.213] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090402 02:31:35< CIA-30> jhinrichs * r34386 /trunk/src/ (4 files): 
20090402 02:31:35< CIA-30> Savegame reorganization Step 1: Providing a simpler interface to saving and loading.
20090402 02:31:35< CIA-30> Remove savegame stuff from the replay-class.
20090402 02:32:02< Crab_> Soliton, yes, that's what I see while reading c++ specs ...
20090402 02:33:56-!- oak_ [i=oakus@c02--112b.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 02:34:48< YogiHH> night everyone
20090402 02:34:59< Crab_> night, YogiHH
20090402 02:35:12-!- YogiHH [n=chatzill@c187082.adsl.hansenet.de] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090402 02:36:19-!- Sirp [n=me@wesnoth/developer/dave] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 02:36:22-!- ikarius [n=ross@smtp.gridironsystems.com] has quit []
20090402 02:41:58-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 02:45:22-!- cyber_11 [n=muratcan@78.165.109.250] has quit []
20090402 02:47:19< Crab_> Soliton, something like that - http://tinyurl.com/dll3ta - can be used to allow usage of LOG_* in static initializers
20090402 02:52:01-!- ABCD [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has quit ["No Ping reply in 30 seconds."]
20090402 02:52:29-!- ABCD [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 03:02:16-!- alink_ [n=alink@78.129.18.215] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 03:10:39-!- alink_ [n=alink@78.129.18.215] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 03:13:44-!- KingofCamelot [n=davidsan@ip98-182-16-78.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 03:14:18-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 03:18:25-!- alink [n=alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 03:19:20-!- Crab_ [n=crab_@c.218.175.a530.sta.adsl.cyfra.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
20090402 03:19:29-!- nagbot [n=root@smtp.terraninfo.net] has quit ["leaving"]
20090402 03:40:51-!- chains [n=Rylar@adsl-69-209-64-246.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 03:41:12-!- Elvish_Pillage2 [n=eli@66-189-40-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Hi! I'm a quit message virus vaccine. If you see a quit message virus, don't replace your quit message with it!"]
20090402 04:01:44-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 04:05:35-!- kasala [n=jkasala@142.151.182.233] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 04:06:54< kasala> hey, I only have a couple years experience with c/c++.  should i bother applying to GSoC?
20090402 04:08:48< Sirp> kasala: well gee you overwhelm us with your confidence. ;)
20090402 04:10:50< kasala> Well...  I just wanted to know if i would be denied straight away due to inexperience
20090402 04:11:28< kasala> before I went typing up an application and all... speaking of which I should get on that, what with the deadline on friday
20090402 04:12:11< kasala> My professor just told the class about Summer of Code a few days ago, which is why I'm so late to the scene
20090402 04:13:24< grantwu> i only have a couple of years too but i stared at the code long enough to get whats going on
20090402 04:13:29< grantwu> bring advil though
20090402 04:13:35< voris> "The answer is always no until you ask." Which is to say, the act of applying is never wasted.
20090402 04:14:13< kasala> alright voris you've inspired me
20090402 04:14:30< grantwu> voris is apparently a much better motivational speaker than i
20090402 04:14:40-!- Ivanovic_ [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db2dbad.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 04:14:40< kasala> sorry grant, forgot to credit you
20090402 04:14:46< grantwu> LOL i was kidding
20090402 04:15:34< Sirp> kasala: we actually don't go much at all by 'credentials'. We go by what you show us you can do. If you start working on your proposal and have it partly implemented and ready to show to us....
20090402 04:15:44< Sirp> then we'll be pretty convinced.
20090402 04:16:38< kasala> ok.  i really wish i could say that my proposal is partly implemented and ready to show you
20090402 04:17:14< kasala> but again i kind of just found out about this whole SoC
20090402 04:17:47< grantwu> kasala, that should be motivation to work harder right now
20090402 04:17:58< grantwu> you're not in the best position so work to improve it
20090402 04:18:36-!- Zen_Clark [n=user@99-136-80-191.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["I'm busy trying to imporove my position relative to your mom."]
20090402 04:18:37< grantwu> applications are due friday, nobody is chosen, nothing is set, stop counting yourself out already
20090402 04:19:04< kasala> alright
20090402 04:21:18< kasala> so grant you're an applying student as well i take it?
20090402 04:21:22-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 04:22:43< grantwu> yeah
20090402 04:25:00< kasala> waht code were you staring at?
20090402 04:28:56< kasala> i should probably begin staring at it as well
20090402 04:29:21-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 04:29:53-!- Blueblaze [n=nick@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 04:31:04-!- Ivanovic [n=ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
20090402 04:32:38-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic
20090402 04:33:45< grantwu> sorry, trying to clean my keyboard.  depends on what project you're looking to do
20090402 04:38:03< CIA-30> soliton * r34387 /trunk/utils/mp-server/update_server: use 1.6 sources to build 1.6; default to scons
20090402 04:38:40< kasala> ok.  how did you get the game code?
20090402 04:39:14< grantwu> i use svn
20090402 04:39:31< grantwu> i'm running linux, if you're using windows look for tortoise svn
20090402 04:40:17< Soliton> http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesnothSVN
20090402 04:41:04< kasala> thanks
20090402 04:41:47< kasala> just out of curiosity, how many students will be accepted for wesnoth?
20090402 04:42:08< kasala> sorry if thats blatantly answered on the info page
20090402 04:42:37< Sirp> kasala: we don't know yet.
20090402 04:42:44< Sirp> though I would bet on 3 or 4
20090402 04:43:32< Sirp> I think there will be some fairly intense competition for the available spaces, and I hope that people want to do it because they want to join Wesnoth development more than wanting to get paid from being in SoC
20090402 04:53:12< kasala> yeah im looking over the competition now and it looks like ill be throwing in the towel this year.  there's no way i can generate a contending profile in such limited time
20090402 04:53:49< kasala> anyway this was easily the most interesting mentor organization on the list, i hope you guys are taking part in GoC next year as well
20090402 04:56:24< kasala> now that im aware of the program i will be prepared come the next round
20090402 04:56:25< Soliton> btw, you know you can also take part in wesnoth's development outside of gsoc, right? ;-)
20090402 04:57:11< Turuk_> If you are still truly interested and spend the time delving into the code, working on one of the ideas even outside the gsoc is never a bad thing. We just don't pay ;)
20090402 04:57:43< kasala> i didnt know that, but that is extremely intriguing
20090402 04:57:50-!- grantwu [n=zenneth@westquad-149018.reshall.umich.edu] has quit ["Leaving."]
20090402 04:58:36-!- grantwu [n=UserXP@westquad-150060.reshall.umich.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 04:58:42< grantwu> sorry had to get on my laptop
20090402 04:58:50< grantwu> kasala, i don't think my chances are so hot either
20090402 04:58:56< grantwu> but i want to get into game development
20090402 04:59:02< Soliton> basically anyone's welcome to participate. that's open source.
20090402 04:59:17< grantwu> and the people here are nice
20090402 04:59:29< grantwu> when i first applied one of the more veteran devs actually came to me
20090402 04:59:34< grantwu> i didn't have to seek anybody out
20090402 05:00:03< grantwu> and from what i can tell nobody is going to flame you for not knowing something...well not flame you too much
20090402 05:00:15< grantwu> juuuust kidding
20090402 05:02:15< kasala> i would wholly expect some flaming
20090402 05:02:37< kasala> theres only so much noobish questioning you can take from me
20090402 05:03:08< kasala> anyway im going to have to up my programming game before i can actually participate in open source projects sans the mentor
20090402 05:03:21< kasala> which i plan to do
20090402 05:05:25< grantwu> community helps each other out
20090402 05:05:29< grantwu> we can be gsoc rejects together
20090402 05:06:49< Blueblaze> That's a new one :p
20090402 05:07:09< grantwu> lol
20090402 05:08:41< kasala> lol ok
20090402 05:11:33< kasala> thanks for the info everyone
20090402 05:11:46-!- kasala [n=jkasala@142.151.182.233] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090402 05:14:07< grantwu> uuuggh, cleaning a keyboard is the most tedious process
20090402 05:14:52< grantwu> any tips, pro wesnoth devs on dealing with sticky keys?
20090402 05:17:23< Soliton> play with the mouse!
20090402 05:21:44-!- nerwa [n=nerwa@59.78.26.75] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 05:23:07< voris> 99% alcohol
20090402 05:27:59< Blueblaze> The good thing is that when you're done cleaning with it, you can have a party with it afterwards
20090402 05:28:39 * voris makes a note to never accept a drink from Blueblaze 
20090402 05:29:04< Blueblaze> Yeah, I only drink lethal amounts :p
20090402 05:29:39< Blueblaze> Or maybe that's what I serve my guests
20090402 05:30:30< voris> Lethal types, you mean.
20090402 05:32:06< voris> Or, at least, I am assuming you generally find isopropanol where you are. I guess if you get actual ethanol you could drink that. :)
20090402 05:32:18< Blueblaze> No, I mean lethal percentages of alcohol :p
20090402 05:32:36-!- grantwu [n=UserXP@westquad-150060.reshall.umich.edu] has quit ["Leaving."]
20090402 05:33:41< Blueblaze> I've never seen 99%+ alcohol in stores, only online like from Amazon
20090402 05:33:57< voris> I can usually find it in the drug stores here.
20090402 05:34:27< voris> It's almost always isopropanol though and so completely undrinkable.
20090402 05:35:21< Blueblaze> Yeah, but everything I see around here is 50-70%
20090402 05:35:29< Blueblaze> Granted, I don't go looking for anything stronger
20090402 05:35:32< voris> Good lord 50%?
20090402 05:35:42< voris> That's hardly useful at all.
20090402 05:35:57< voris> I've never seen less than 70%
20090402 05:36:20< Blueblaze> 50% is quite useful :P
20090402 05:36:25< voris> But I can always find 99% iso. Saved my butt when I dropped my phone in the lake once.
20090402 05:37:09< Blueblaze> Uhh, what's the relation?
20090402 05:37:17< voris> Pop out the battery, displace all that water with 99%, let it dry, Good as new.
20090402 05:37:42< Blueblaze> I see
20090402 05:37:56< voris> It's a very effective drying agent.
20090402 05:38:12< Blueblaze> Yeah, I knew that it had dehydration properties, just never thought of using it in such way
20090402 05:38:21< voris> Also why I use it to clean keyboards. No crap left behind.
20090402 05:38:49< Blueblaze> And same reason why I don't drink alcohol on airplanes :p
20090402 05:39:22< voris> Yeah, you're dehydrated enough there.
20090402 05:40:17< Blueblaze> Right, I'm particularly concerned about the increased risk of getting colds
20090402 05:42:05< Blueblaze> Well, time for sleep, goodnight
20090402 05:43:34-!- Blueblaze [n=nick@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 05:43:38< voris> Goodnight.
20090402 05:56:21-!- Netsplit verne.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: viggy_prabhu, Cathrak, Sirp
20090402 05:56:55-!- Netsplit verne.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: erl, KingofCamelot, reggna, wildpenguin, dfranke, Mellar
20090402 05:57:24< Soliton> the WML parser doubles all " inside "". anyone know where that is reversed again for displaying?
20090402 05:57:36-!- Netsplit over, joins: KingofCamelot, wildpenguin, Mellar, reggna, dfranke, erl
20090402 05:57:55-!- Netsplit over, joins: Sirp, viggy_prabhu, Cathrak
20090402 06:03:36-!- JW1 [n=X@rrcs-70-62-38-194.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 06:13:13< cjhopman> Soliton: do you mean in tokenizer?
20090402 06:13:40< Soliton> cjhopman: looks like it. can't really see the big picture there though.
20090402 06:14:32< cjhopman> it doesn't, the next_char_fast() call will skip the first " and then the += adds the second
20090402 06:14:56< Soliton> ah, thanks.
20090402 06:15:40< Soliton> the thing is that simple_wml doesn't know about the "" convention and it's annoying me a bit.
20090402 06:16:27< Soliton> cjhopman: do you know by chance why that is done to begin with? we do have backslash escaping as well, i think.
20090402 06:18:00< cjhopman> no, i don't know why
20090402 06:27:01-!- rohita [n=Kasun@202.69.192.81] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 06:27:04< Soliton> looks like it was introduced in a parser rewrite. no explanation in the commit message.
20090402 06:27:58-!- chains [n=Rylar@adsl-69-209-64-246.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 06:30:47< Soliton> ah no, r2143 introduced it to fix savegames.
20090402 06:31:49< Soliton> doesn't really say why though. i guess it might be a problem to find the right closing quote in multiline strings.
20090402 06:32:52< rohita> where can i create a wiki page on wesnoth for gsoc student
20090402 06:33:10< Soliton> wiki.wesnoth.org
20090402 06:36:02-!- Sirp [n=me@wesnoth/developer/dave] has quit ["leaving"]
20090402 06:42:24-!- KingofCamelot [n=davidsan@ip98-182-16-78.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit []
20090402 06:48:45-!- JW1 [n=X@rrcs-70-62-38-194.central.biz.rr.com] has quit []
20090402 06:57:21-!- Alesis-Novik [n=alesis@78.60.188.59] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 06:58:40-!- Jetrel [n=Jetrel@wesnoth/artist/jetrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 06:59:21-!- Alesis-Novik [n=alesis@78.60.188.59] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 07:03:22< CIA-30> cjhopman * r34388 /trunk/src/ (image.cpp image.hpp): - convert image::locator to do a hash-based lookup
20090402 07:19:43-!- _deleter [n=_deleter@137.112.104.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 07:23:21-!- rohita [n=Kasun@202.69.192.81] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090402 07:32:48-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@CPE001c10a691f3-CM0012c99ea120.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 07:52:39-!- Yexo [i=Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 08:09:09-!- Yexo_ [i=Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 08:38:38-!- stevenj [i=4bba7fd7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ced42caec806f303] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 08:49:53-!- oak_ [i=oakus@c02--112b.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 08:52:46-!- aeonphyxius [n=alejandr@p5791C35F.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090402 09:00:43-!- fendrin [n=fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 09:06:10-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 09:07:36-!- YogiHH [i=d4ca9d15@wesnoth/developer/yogihh] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 09:10:04-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 09:13:12-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit [Client Quit]
20090402 09:16:06-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 09:16:11-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 09:21:20-!- fendrin [n=fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 09:26:49-!- nagbot [n=root@smtp.terraninfo.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 09:26:55< nagbot> Time for a small public service announcement
20090402 09:26:55< nagbot> Everyone who wants to participate in GSoC with Wesnoth:
20090402 09:26:55< nagbot> Tell Google about your application!
20090402 09:26:55< nagbot> The deadline for the application is friday, april 3rd, at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST)
20090402 09:26:58< nagbot> Everyone not enlisted in the google tracker at that time will have *no* chance to participate with Wesnoth as part of summer of code 2009, no matter how good you communicated with us or *whatever* 
20090402 09:27:02< nagbot> Only people listed there can be selected!
20090402 09:27:04< nagbot> Submit patches for review, so we'll see how you work.
20090402 09:27:07< nagbot> Discuss your ideas here - get important feedback from developers
20090402 09:27:22-!- nagbot [n=root@smtp.terraninfo.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20090402 09:36:15-!- jmunro[a] is now known as jmunro
20090402 09:46:26-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit []
20090402 09:46:55-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit ["leaving"]
20090402 09:58:20-!- iyonius [n=iyo@a02-0829c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 10:10:49-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@79.139.246.190] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 10:11:27-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.246.190] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 10:13:52-!- zookeeper [n=l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 10:31:51-!- euschn [n=chatzill@85-127-111-184.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 10:31:59< euschn> good morning
20090402 10:35:16< YogiHH> hi eushcn
20090402 10:35:22< YogiHH> oops, euschn
20090402 10:36:12-!- ilor [n=user@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has quit []
20090402 10:51:50< Ivanovic> moin
20090402 11:00:25-!- turin [n=turin@168.215.250.1] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 11:16:38-!- KnightR [n=anonymou@bb121-7-175-14.singnet.com.sg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 11:16:47-!- henning__ [n=jp0186@77-56-56-38.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 11:17:33-!- Yexo [i=Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090402 11:17:37-!- Yexo [i=Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 11:26:47-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 11:33:52-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 11:54:43-!- KingofCamelot [n=davidsan@ip98-182-16-78.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 11:54:47-!- KingofCamelot [n=davidsan@ip98-182-16-78.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 12:05:48-!- velory [n=gprocess@212.175.117.147] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 12:07:34< velory> Hi
20090402 12:07:44< YogiHH> off for lunch
20090402 12:07:48< euschn> hi
20090402 12:08:06-!- Jetrel is now known as the_winslow
20090402 12:08:11< the_winslow> hi
20090402 12:09:04< KnightR> hey folks
20090402 12:10:39< velory> hi
20090402 12:10:46< the_winslow> hi hi
20090402 12:10:55< the_winslow> howdy
20090402 12:12:57-!- the_winslow is now known as Jetrel
20090402 12:31:46< AI0867_> Jetrel: have you looked at the snowed version of the log cabin?
20090402 12:31:57< Jetrel> no
20090402 12:32:12< Jetrel> link?
20090402 12:32:45< AI0867_> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=348047#p348047
20090402 12:32:58-!- cib0 [n=cib@p4FD0CDC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 12:33:41< Jetrel> AI0867_: looks commitworthy
20090402 12:34:06-!- cib0 [n=cib@p4FD0CDC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 12:37:22-!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 12:37:48< AI0867_> I'll do it when I get home
20090402 12:38:44< Jetrel> danke
20090402 12:39:32< Jetrel> AI0867_: post on the forum to that effect if you do so
20090402 12:39:48 * zookeeper still doesn't know what those are then supposed to be used for
20090402 12:40:27< Jetrel> zookeeper: dwellings of humans.
20090402 12:40:31< zookeeper> just casually as villages in...the north? where?
20090402 12:40:47< Jetrel> In rural areas.
20090402 12:41:02< zookeeper> roger
20090402 12:41:17< zookeeper> (that's like...95% of all villages :p)
20090402 12:42:30< Jetrel> depending on your definition of rural.  :)
20090402 12:44:42< zookeeper> i suppose
20090402 12:45:03 * Jetrel -> sleep
20090402 12:48:57-!- res|laptop [n=res@pdpc/supporter/student/res2k] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 13:07:19< YogiHH> back
20090402 13:07:30< YogiHH> off for meeting :-)
20090402 13:29:49-!- nerwa [n=nerwa@59.78.26.75] has quit []
20090402 13:44:25-!- iyonius [n=iyo@a02-0829c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit ["Leaving."]
20090402 13:45:51< velory> bye!
20090402 13:45:54-!- velory [n=gprocess@212.175.117.147] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090402 13:46:59-!- ishesh [n=ishesh@117.192.224.79] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 13:56:04-!- ishesh [n=ishesh@117.192.224.79] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090402 13:57:22< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34389 /trunk/ (13 files in 8 dirs): updated Chinese (Simplified), Finnish and Polish translation
20090402 13:59:03< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34390 /branches/1.6/ (13 files in 8 dirs): updated Chinese (Simplified), Finnish and Polish translation
20090402 14:22:01< Turuk_> Corn: are you cornmander?
20090402 14:22:26-!- elias [n=allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 14:31:48-!- molgrum [n=molgrum@c83-249-53-163.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 14:41:29-!- Crab_ [n=crab_@c.218.175.a530.sta.adsl.cyfra.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 14:41:35< Crab_> hi
20090402 14:55:16< molgrum> ello
20090402 15:02:07< Turuk_> Are there any GSoC applicants in here who are not in the appropriate forum group?
20090402 15:02:46< henning__> me, i think
20090402 15:03:27< euschn> I have a question for WML experts: on my proposal page, I listed some WML tags in savegames that might be redundant depending on whether they can be changed in the course of a scenario by WML events
20090402 15:03:43< euschn> would be great if someone could tell me if my guesses are correct: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeProposal_Euschn#WML_Mapping_Redundancies
20090402 15:04:37< Turuk_> henning__:  what is your forum name?
20090402 15:04:42< henning__> henning
20090402 15:05:36< Turuk_> Hmm, did you create a wiki account or a wiki and forum account?
20090402 15:05:45< Turuk_> The databases are separate 
20090402 15:05:51< Turuk_> Because no henning shows up on the forum
20090402 15:06:15< henning__> if i remember correctly, both. should i try again with the forum account?
20090402 15:06:27< Turuk_> Never mind, it was my search
20090402 15:06:28< Turuk_> Gotcha
20090402 15:06:50< Turuk_> You're now in the group.
20090402 15:06:56< henning__> thxs
20090402 15:07:18< Turuk_> Anyone other GSoC applicants who need to be in the Summer of Code forum group?  If you come back and read this, ping me and I'll take care of it today.
20090402 15:08:36< Shadow_Master> Turuk_: thanks!
20090402 15:08:49< Turuk_> Hmm?
20090402 15:08:57< Shadow_Master> for taking care of that for us.
20090402 15:09:26< Turuk_> Ah, not a problem, I've been doing it when I catch them.
20090402 15:11:27< molgrum> Turuk_: the reverse for me, could you remove me please?
20090402 15:11:33< Turuk_> Can do.
20090402 15:12:16< Ivanovic> euschn: you should ask zookeeper
20090402 15:12:20< Ivanovic> he probably knows wml best
20090402 15:12:25< Turuk_> Done molgrum.
20090402 15:12:27< zookeeper> Ivanovic, euschn, i'm already looking at it
20090402 15:12:32< Ivanovic> ah, okay
20090402 15:12:40< euschn> zookeeper, Ivanovic: thanks!
20090402 15:14:47-!- jmunro is now known as jmunro[a]
20090402 15:15:17< zookeeper> euschn, ok...well, i don't think there's all that much for me to say. i don't think there are major redundancies in the savefile format, assuming that regular saves will continue to work as replays too. i'll try to list some details..
20090402 15:15:52< zookeeper> usually 95% of savefiles consists of units and events
20090402 15:16:05< euschn> zookeeper: I see
20090402 15:16:51< Shadow_Master> who is cornmander?
20090402 15:16:57< Shadow_Master> corn: ?
20090402 15:17:53< zookeeper> there's not much room for improvement there, except maybe you could condense the replay_start/snapshot event storage so that the snapshot part wouldn't have a full copy of all the normal scenario events, but just info on what has changed since scenario start (event removed, event added, etc)
20090402 15:19:35< zookeeper> and note that i just know WML and next to nothing about C++
20090402 15:20:41< euschn> zookeeper: ok, thanks for the tip - what about the tags I listed like version, campaign_type, difficulty, etc - is it not redundant to store them at root and in snapshot?
20090402 15:20:58< euschn> I do understand that this makes a really small percentage of the whole file
20090402 15:21:21< euschn> I guess its more for clarity than to reduce the size
20090402 15:21:38< zookeeper> yes, those are mostly redundant
20090402 15:21:55< zookeeper> however you should perhaps note that some side attributes are actually leader unit attributes
20090402 15:22:11< zookeeper> such as canrecruit, id, unrenamable, type, name, etc
20090402 15:22:49< euschn> zookeeper: in the C++ code, those are associated with teams rather than leader units
20090402 15:23:13< euschn> can leader units change through events?
20090402 15:23:31< zookeeper> well, the leader unit is created based on the contents of [scenario] [side], i don't know how the engine does it exactly
20090402 15:23:33< zookeeper> yes
20090402 15:24:01 * zookeeper opens up a savefile to check how all that stuff goes..
20090402 15:25:15< Crab_> Dragonking, as I've promised before, https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13286 is now easily reproducible in unmodified trunk.
20090402 15:25:31< euschn> zookeeper: I see - according to YogiHH snapshot.side is mapped to a team object in C++
20090402 15:25:59< zookeeper> [snapshot] [side] doesn't really need to contain any of those unit keys like id, unrenamable, type etc
20090402 15:26:20< euschn> zookeeper: ah good
20090402 15:26:22< zookeeper> since in the snapshot, all the current units are already stored in those [unit]s
20090402 15:26:29< Crab_> euschn, not only team, but team + team_info + various ai parameters
20090402 15:27:51< euschn> Crab_: true, there is more in snapshot.side - I just meant that there was no actual leader object in C++, only players and teams
20090402 15:27:55< zookeeper> the standard way of specifying the leader units is somewhat clumsy indeed. i'm not sure if it'd be out of scope of your project to change that..
20090402 15:28:21< euschn> zookeeper: I see - so I might have to live with it
20090402 15:28:39< Crab_> euschn: ok
20090402 15:29:07-!- wildpenguin [n=chpln@ppp121-45-157-74.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090402 15:29:12< zookeeper> i mean, when you write your scenario and have [scenario] [side] id=Konrad type=Fighter side=1 etc etc, both the side information and the leader unit information is derived from that same [side] block, so the side info ends up with redundant leader attributes and the leader unit ends up with redundant side parameters.
20090402 15:29:46< zookeeper> although it's sometimes handy for cunning hacks when you have read access to side parameters you normally wouldn't, through the leader unit ;)
20090402 15:30:08< euschn> zookeeper: interesting :)
20090402 15:33:33-!- jmunro[a] is now known as jmunro
20090402 15:35:22-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit ["Power failu"]
20090402 15:36:28< zookeeper> so i'm just saying that it _might_ be a good time to try to separate the leader and side definitions some way to clean up the code a bit. but you'd have to talk with yogi and sapient about that (personally i wouldn't have anything against the idea).
20090402 15:38:06< Crab_> euschn: and if you decide to do that, think about separating the AI definition from the side definition as well.
20090402 15:38:40< euschn> Crab_: that would imply that AI cannot change through wml events?
20090402 15:39:06< Crab_> euschn: AI can change through WML events
20090402 15:39:22-!- happygrue [n=George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 15:39:52< Crab_> euschn: but now, there are some problems with 'how' the AI definition is located in the config
20090402 15:40:44< zookeeper> Crab_, where else could it be than in the side def?
20090402 15:42:01< Crab_> euschn: it is *ok* to place this in the side def, but as a separate element. now, there are some parameters that can be placed directly in [side], and some parameters which can be placed in [ai] tags inside [side].
20090402 15:42:35< euschn> euschn: i see
20090402 15:42:46< euschn> s/euschn/Crab_
20090402 15:43:01< Crab_> euschn: this is because of historical reasons - there were several parameters which were to tune the ai behavior, and they were placed in [side]
20090402 15:43:42< zookeeper> hmh, what parameters?
20090402 15:44:21< euschn> Crab_: the thing is that side occurs twice in savegames, in snapshot and a subset of it in replay_start
20090402 15:44:31< Crab_> euschn, then, someone thought that it would be better to have a 'generic' ai parameter code to allow an arbitrary list of ai config parameters... but the old parameters were not removed
20090402 15:44:51< euschn> I was wondering if there are more tags in snapshot.side that can be removed from there as they do not change
20090402 15:44:58< Crab_> zookeeper, http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/AiWML
20090402 15:45:18< zookeeper> Crab_, well, those are in the side def as separate [ai] elements
20090402 15:45:38< Crab_> zookeeper, the current code also allows to place them directly in [side]
20090402 15:45:40< zookeeper> [side] side=1 controller=human [ai] aggression=1 [/ai] [/side]
20090402 15:45:52< zookeeper> ah, that's unsupported behaviour then as far as i'm concerned
20090402 15:46:02< zookeeper> i don't see what the use of that would be, really
20090402 15:46:49< zookeeper> but talking about it gives me a deja vu, so maybe there is some kind of a point to it.
20090402 15:46:59< Crab_> zookeeper, one of them is documented  " but must be given either in an [ai] tag without the aforementioned keys or outside [ai] tags inside the [side] tag. " (c) wiki
20090402 15:47:16< euschn> Crab_: you mean you could do [side] side=1 controller=human aggression=1 [/side] (no ai tag)
20090402 15:47:48< zookeeper> Crab_, ai_algorithm, right..
20090402 15:48:51< Crab_> euschn: in the code - yes. number_of_possible_recruits_to_force_recruit, villages_per_scout, leader_value, village_value, aggression, caution are treated differently from all other ai parameters
20090402 15:49:02-!- Yexo_ [i=Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 15:49:11-!- Yexo is now known as Guest4723
20090402 15:49:15< zookeeper> well, assuming that you can always just use a simple [side] [ai] ai_algorithm=foo [/ai] to accomplish the same thing as [side] ai_algorithm=foo would, it's ok to remove such a special case IMO.
20090402 15:49:34-!- Yexo_ is now known as Yexo
20090402 15:50:48< zookeeper> sounds like a mess to me. if the point is to allow easier mixing of "global" ai params of the side and [ai] blocks with turns= or time_of_day= filters (which is the only point i can think of), then surely a better and more clear way should be created instead.
20090402 15:51:01< Crab_> zookeeper: current AI parameter handling *is* a mess)
20090402 15:51:32< Ivanovic> Crab_: and in trunk we can clean up messes
20090402 15:51:33< zookeeper> ah, hmm. also one point might be that it allows faction-specific params to be inserted more easily into the sides in MP games.
20090402 15:51:51< Crab_> zookeeper: IMO, it will be better to create some kind of sub-tag inside [side] which will hold all those [ai] parameters.
20090402 15:52:05< zookeeper> yes, agreed.
20090402 15:52:32< euschn> euschn: that sounds good
20090402 15:52:45< Ivanovic> euschn: you like to talk to yourself, don't you?
20090402 15:52:47< Ivanovic> ;)
20090402 15:52:52< euschn> euschn: yes :P
20090402 15:53:17< euschn> im confused by looking at the code, save games, editing the wiki and trying to follow the conversation
20090402 15:57:53< euschn> thanks for the input anyways, I am starting to get a better feeling on what is redundant and what now
20090402 15:57:59< euschn> s/now/not
20090402 16:06:48-!- Guest4723 [i=Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 16:08:13-!- IneQuation [i=1286@2001:470:1f09:409:0:0:0:1286] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 16:18:48< Crab_> zookeeper, is there any tool to query the WMLs ? for example, find all usages of 'aggression' outside [ai] ?
20090402 16:19:23< Crab_> there are some usages, even in mainline campaigns  (for example, in The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/scenarios/08_Clearwater_Port.cfg )
20090402 16:20:21< zookeeper> well, there are some tools like wmliterator (of which i know nothing about) which might help you in finding that kind of stuff
20090402 16:20:44< Crab_> zookeeper: ok, I'll look for it. And, after all, there is awk )
20090402 16:21:00< zookeeper> but if you find any cases like that which are not trivial to fix (such as multiple [ai] tags involved), you can just give me a list and i can sort them out
20090402 16:21:49< Crab_> these would be pretty trivial to fix - just move it from [side] to new empty [ai][/ai] tag inside that [side]
20090402 16:22:47< zookeeper> ok
20090402 16:22:57< Crab_> let ai_algorithm stay in [side] for the time being... but "number_of_possible_recruits_to_force_recruit, villages_per_scout, leader_value, village_value, aggression, caution" are (even) undocumented and so must be moved into [ai][/ai]
20090402 16:23:45< zookeeper> yep
20090402 16:28:26-!- IneQuati1n [i=1286@2001:470:1f09:409:0:0:0:1286] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 16:28:43-!- IneQuati1n [i=1286@2001:470:1f09:409:0:0:0:1286] has quit [Client Quit]
20090402 16:29:05-!- IneQuation [i=1286@2001:470:1f09:409:0:0:0:1286] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
20090402 16:29:46-!- nagbot [n=root@smtp.terraninfo.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 16:29:51< nagbot> Time for a small public service announcement
20090402 16:29:51< nagbot> An announcement for ALL Google Summer of Code Students
20090402 16:29:51< nagbot> Tell Google about your application!
20090402 16:29:51< nagbot> The deadline is coming - application period closes at Apr 3rd, 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) 
20090402 16:29:54< nagbot> Everyone not enlisted in the google tracker at that time will have *no* chance to participate with Wesnoth as part of summer of code 2009, no matter how good your proposal in the wiki is or *whatever
20090402 16:29:58< nagbot> You have been warned.
20090402 16:30:01< nagbot> Please submit patches so we can see your ideas in action. 
20090402 16:30:03< nagbot> Discuss your ideas here - get important feedback from developers
20090402 16:30:15-!- nagbot [n=root@smtp.terraninfo.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20090402 16:30:30-!- IneQuation [i=1286@2001:470:1f09:409:0:0:0:1286] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 16:30:46-!- IneQuation [i=1286@2001:470:1f09:409:0:0:0:1286] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090402 16:31:17-!- Velory [n=GProcess@85.99.35.216] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 16:31:48< Velory> hi everyone
20090402 16:31:56< Crab_> hi Velory
20090402 16:33:18< euschn> hi Velory
20090402 16:33:40< Velory> Hi euschn
20090402 16:36:04-!- euschn [n=chatzill@85-127-111-184.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 16:37:22-!- YogiHH [i=d4ca9d15@wesnoth/developer/yogihh] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"]
20090402 16:38:39-!- elias [n=allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 16:39:00-!- elias [n=allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 16:46:00-!- euschn [n=chatzill@85-127-111-184.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 16:55:01-!- henning__ [n=jp0186@77-56-56-38.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit []
20090402 16:58:05-!- niadh [n=niadh@78-86-134-181.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 16:58:27-!- Polarina [n=polarina@wesnoth/translator/Polarina] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 16:58:51< niadh> Hey am one of the gsoc students am looking to perhaps submit a patch, how do I get started?
20090402 16:59:23< Ivanovic> search for something you want to code
20090402 16:59:27< Ivanovic> and just do so
20090402 16:59:52< Ivanovic> that is it can either be one of the listed "EasyCoding" tasks or a bug/feature listed at bugs.wesnoth.org
20090402 17:00:09< Ivanovic> though with the ones at bugs.wesnoth.org you should ask us if it is easy enough for a beginner or not
20090402 17:01:09< niadh> Well looking at the changing font easy task how would I get started on it? What svn branch do I need to check out?
20090402 17:01:16< niadh> Where in the code should I start looking?
20090402 17:01:25< Ivanovic> you would checkout trunk/
20090402 17:02:18< niadh> ok
20090402 17:03:02< Ivanovic> regarding where to start for this task: i don't know
20090402 17:03:17< niadh> fair enough
20090402 17:04:39< Polarina> niadh: And welcome to Wesnoth. :)
20090402 17:04:59< niadh> Thanks, I was online for a while yesterday writing a posposal
20090402 17:05:03< niadh> proposal
20090402 17:05:29-!- iyonius [n=iyo@a02-0829c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 17:05:49-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 17:08:07< Crab_> zookeeper: ok, I've hacked wmllint a bit, to check for those misplaced ai parameter tags. 
20090402 17:08:16< CIA-30> crab * r34391 /trunk/data/tools/wmllint: Added check for ai parameters outside [ai] to wmllint
20090402 17:09:08-!- fendrin [n=fabi@f050207101.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 17:09:33< Crab_> zookeeper: found 14 usages so far ( http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m3387c3a2 ). will fix them.
20090402 17:09:37< fendrin> Dragonking: thank you for fixing the low ai bug.
20090402 17:10:00< zookeeper> Crab_, sounds good to me
20090402 17:12:17-!- Yexo [i=Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 17:16:34-!- stevenj [i=4bba7fd7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ced42caec806f303] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"]
20090402 17:26:36 * fendrin can't deceide which of slashdot's news are april first jokes. They are all rediculous.
20090402 17:28:01< happygrue> slashdot is worthless on April 1st -  If it isn't an outright joke then it is reporting someone else's joke as news.
20090402 17:32:51-!- Blueblaze [n=nick@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 17:35:14-!- ikarius [n=ross@smtp.gridironsystems.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 17:35:22< Ivanovic> fendrin: you will have to wait at least three or four more days to be rather sure not to read another sites april fools joke
20090402 17:38:46-!- happygrue [n=George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit ["http://xkcd.com/91/"]
20090402 17:42:08< molgrum> who uses mingw+windows to build wesnoth here?
20090402 17:43:06-!- IneQuation [i=1286@2001:470:1f09:409:0:0:0:1286] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 17:44:16< CIA-30> crab * r34392 /trunk/data/campaigns/ (5 files in 4 dirs): 
20090402 17:44:16< CIA-30> Cleaned up the locations of AI parameter attributes to conform to documentation.
20090402 17:44:16< CIA-30> ( put them inside [ai], not directly in [side] )
20090402 17:44:53< CIA-30> crab * r34393 /trunk/data/tools/wmllint: Added some more checks for bad ai parameter placement
20090402 17:46:11< loonycyborg> molgrum: I do :P
20090402 17:46:59< molgrum> loonycyborg: i have some problems, the first is that msys sometimes when it starts exits immediately, the other is that i don't have cmake
20090402 17:47:14-!- busfahrer is now known as busfahrer|TI
20090402 17:48:33 * loonycyborg doesn't use msys because it sucks even more than cmd.exe.
20090402 17:49:20< loonycyborg> Though it didn't exit immediately for me.
20090402 17:49:28< molgrum> ok
20090402 17:50:11< molgrum> so you can compile wesnoth in "my documents"?
20090402 17:50:22< molgrum> or do you have to move it to mingw /home
20090402 17:51:50< loonycyborg> I do compile it in a subdirectory of my documents.
20090402 17:52:23-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
20090402 17:55:20< loonycyborg> molgrum: IIRC you tried using cygwin before. ./configure; make might work in that environment.
20090402 17:55:44< molgrum> yes i'm more used to cygwin, i can try that
20090402 17:56:25< loonycyborg> Actually, ./autogen.sh; ./configure; make
20090402 18:00:01< niadh> I'm looking at attempting to patch this: https://gna.org/bugs/?7470 since I'm under the impression gsoc students are asked to submit patches even before acceptance, but I'm not sure where in the code to even begin looking
20090402 18:03:21-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 18:06:18-!- fendrin [n=fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 18:11:34-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090402 18:15:14-!- turin [n=turin@168.215.250.1] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 18:24:21-!- euschn [n=chatzill@85-127-111-184.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 18:26:33-!- Blueblaze [n=nick@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 18:44:50< corn> niadh: I was considering solving that bug as well, but several devs told me that it was better to leave it alone
20090402 18:45:16< niadh> it's listed in the easy things to patch for gsoc :S
20090402 18:45:23< corn> yeah, that's where I saw it too :)
20090402 18:46:14< corn> I could be wrong though but you may be better off staying in this channel for a while and asking more devs about things worth working on right now
20090402 18:47:07< niadh> There was some gui stuff but the guy to ask ain't on yet 
20090402 19:04:23< voris> The issue is that it's as much a graphic design/typography/artistic call issue. :)
20090402 19:04:25< voris> iirc
20090402 19:04:43-!- Blueblaze [n=nick@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 19:06:54< zookeeper> anyone looking for ideas for patches to write?
20090402 19:07:14< Polarina> Not me.
20090402 19:08:21< Polarina> About any code that isn't mine, I have difficulties understanding.
20090402 19:17:24-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit ["GO, GET TO THE CHOPPAH!!!"]
20090402 19:25:21-!- euschn [n=chatzill@85-127-111-184.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 19:26:14< Crab_> zookeeper: what do you want to propose ?
20090402 19:28:04-!- YogiHH [n=chatzill@d096025.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 19:28:58< CIA-30> ai0867 * r34394 /trunk/data/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Add and wire in snowed version of log cabin village.
20090402 19:29:08< CIA-30> ai0867 * r34395 /trunk/data/core/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Create editor tiles for the log cabin villages.
20090402 19:29:46< AI0867> wesbot: log 34394
20090402 19:29:47< wesbot> ai0867 * r34394 : Add and wire in snowed version of log cabin village.
20090402 19:29:50< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=34394
20090402 19:33:24< Crab_> hi YogiHH. regarding that yesterday's discussion about logs - something like this - http://tinyurl.com/dll3ta can be done with logs, to allow logging from static initializers.
20090402 19:35:02< zookeeper> Crab_, oh, i can come up with small mostly WML-related feature requests. i don't have all that much written down though...
20090402 19:36:11< Crab_> then write it down somewhere in the wiki and put a link. Or just explain what is to be done... )
20090402 19:37:04< zookeeper> sure, just give me a moment, i guess i'll mostly scourge the bug tracker for good ones
20090402 19:38:40< YogiHH> Crab_: It is called an idiom, is that identical to a pattern? Anyway, that looks promising indeed
20090402 19:38:58< Crab_> YogiHH: yes, it's identical.
20090402 19:39:31-!- salty-horse [n=ori@bzq-79-176-40-88.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 19:40:57< salty-horse> hi. found a small typo in a campaign. should I report it in the wiki page (have to create account) or can I just pastebin a patch? http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m674030e0
20090402 19:41:17< Ivanovic> wikipage would be better
20090402 19:41:24< salty-horse> ooookay :)
20090402 19:41:25< Ivanovic> since then esr could just add it to pofix, too
20090402 19:42:28-!- ilor [n=user@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 19:42:54< Ivanovic> hi ilor
20090402 19:43:00< Ivanovic> ilor: assigned an FR by dfranke to you
20090402 19:43:06< ilor> hi Ivanovic
20090402 19:43:31< Soliton> i'd think it should be sent and not sends.
20090402 19:44:59< ilor> Ivanovic: yes I see the mail, thanks
20090402 19:45:02< Soliton> that whole sentence is odd tohugh because it references things that will happen in the campaign not what happend before.
20090402 19:46:57< salty-horse> Ivanovic, done :)
20090402 19:49:47-!- noy [n=Noy@70.70.128.133] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 19:52:19-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090402 19:52:34-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 19:57:31-!- stikonas [n=stikonas@ctv-79-132-187-171.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 19:57:34< esr> crab: you were asking about detectiion of misplaced AI parameters,   wwmllint already does some of that, and it is not hard to write more checks.  
20090402 19:57:38-!- heineckm [n=heineckm@139.147.36.94] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 19:58:59< ilor> esr: a while ago you mentioned you didn't like something about the filebrowser dialog, can you elaborate?
20090402 19:59:12< Crab_> esr: yes, I've already patched wmllint to check for them. 
20090402 20:00:48< zookeeper> Crab_ and anyone else looking for things to patch, here's my assorted feature requests :) http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m26ff7849
20090402 20:01:32< esr> ilor: I'd like to be able to open a map directory with wesnoth in map mode, edit a map, leave and be in the directory again.  At the moment the waty that editor mode holds on to multiple simultaneous maps is confusing -- I haven't been able tio form a mental model of the interface.
20090402 20:01:33< zookeeper> the scenario locking idea might not be that easy to make, i'm not sure.
20090402 20:01:45< zookeeper> but the rest look reasonably simple to me.
20090402 20:02:38< Crab_> zookeeper: ok, thanks
20090402 20:03:03< ilor> esr: it should always open the dialog in the directory the currently active map is, and somewhere (I think default dir) when the current map is "new map"
20090402 20:09:24-!- mordante [n=mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 20:09:37< mordante> hi
20090402 20:09:50< Crab_> hi mordante
20090402 20:09:54< mordante> hi Crab_ 
20090402 20:10:12< esr> ilor: but there dooes not seem to be any way I can say "Edit this specified (campaign) map directory" when I launch it. 
20090402 20:11:03< Ivanovic> hi mordante
20090402 20:11:14< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
20090402 20:11:34< ilor> esr: ok I think I get it. wesnoth -e -f /dir/name/ can be changed to change the dialog's default dir if the name ends with a slash, would that work?
20090402 20:11:45< ilor> hi mordante
20090402 20:11:51< mordante> hi ilor 
20090402 20:12:01< esr> That would help, yes.
20090402 20:12:40< mordante> niadh, do you still have questions about the gui?
20090402 20:14:08< esr> ilor: alsom, I'm confused about the support for editing multiple maps simultaneously.  It;s not an intrinsivcally bad feature, burt (a) I don't see an actual use case for it, and (b) I have trouble kreeping track of what I have open.
20090402 20:14:15< niadh> Yes, I do, the Generic yes/no ok/cancel dialog thing, I'd be intersted at giving that a go as a small patch to wesnoth prior to gsoc code going in
20090402 20:14:39< mordante> what questions do you have?
20090402 20:14:51< ilor> esr: a use case is editing two maps that are supposed to have something in common
20090402 20:15:05-!- Sapient [n=patrickp@wesnoth/developer/sapient] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 20:15:24< niadh> mordante: Well would you require help and how would I get involved?
20090402 20:17:15< esr> ilor: PeMy mental model for the way such interfaces should work is Emacs directtory browsing. Perhaps tthere needs to be an equicalind of Ctl-X Ctl-B, e.g "list names of open maps"?
20090402 20:17:17< Velory> hi mordante
20090402 20:17:19< mordante> niadh, did you already look at src/gui/dialogs/message.[h|c]pp and data/gui/default/window/message.cfg 
20090402 20:17:21< mordante> hi Velory 
20090402 20:18:05< niadh> mordante: Yeah but I don't know what I am looking for
20090402 20:18:11< ilor> esr: yes, a "list maps" dialog I had already in mind as the first or last option to be in the "window" menu
20090402 20:18:35< esr> ilor: Good idea.
20090402 20:19:39< mordante> niadh, that implements a generic dialog with one ok button
20090402 20:19:54< niadh> cool, so I shall have a look at this see what I can make of it
20090402 20:19:59< esr> ilor: Abour -f dir, is there any reason to require the slash?  Why noyt have it do the right thing when it detects that the argument is a directory?  
20090402 20:20:11< mordante> niadh,  it would be nice to add three more buttons to the data/gui/default/window/message.cfg and hide them when not needed
20090402 20:20:43< niadh> mordante: cool, but i've not used C++ for a while, you'll have to let me familiarise myself 
20090402 20:21:02< mordante> niadh, then you can add some generic functions to set show a dialog with 1-4 buttons and set the label of the buttons in the function call
20090402 20:21:15< ilor> esr: true no need to be lazy
20090402 20:21:27< mordante> niadh, ok, just ask if you have questions, when I'm not around I still read the log
20090402 20:21:53< niadh> mordante: Ok, I will bear that in mind, but what else other than C++ are we using?
20090402 20:22:01< esr> ilor: That would eliminate a pointless error path.  I'm in fovor of such changes :-)
20090402 20:22:40< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34397 /branches/1.6/po/ (7 files in 7 dirs): updated German translation
20090402 20:22:41< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34396 /trunk/po/ (7 files in 7 dirs): updated German translation
20090402 20:22:42< CIA-30> mordante * r34398 /trunk/src/mouse_handler_base.cpp: Converted the old style casts to c++ style casts.
20090402 20:22:47< mordante> niadh, the main code is c++, the data WML and for tools it differs, but they are all heading all towards python
20090402 20:23:02< CIA-30> mordante * r34399 /trunk/src/campaign_server/campaign_server.cpp: Converted the old style casts to c++ style casts.
20090402 20:23:08< CIA-30> mordante * r34400 /trunk/src/server/user_handler.cpp: Converted the old style casts to c++ style casts.
20090402 20:23:12< CIA-30> mordante * r34401 /trunk/src/tools/exploder_utils.cpp: Converted the old style casts to c++ style casts.
20090402 20:23:34< CIA-30> mordante * r34402 /trunk/src/serialization/parser.cpp: Converted the old style casts to c++ style casts.
20090402 20:23:39< CIA-30> mordante * r34403 /trunk/src/server/jwsmtp/compat.cpp: Converted the old style casts to c++ style casts.
20090402 20:23:44< CIA-30> mordante * r34404 /trunk/src/server/jwsmtp/compat.h: Converted the old style casts to c++ style casts.
20090402 20:23:47< CIA-30> mordante * r34405 /trunk/src/server/jwsmtp/mailer.cpp: Converted the old style casts to c++ style casts.
20090402 20:23:56< niadh> mordante: Well I know python but what's the graphical thing sdl?
20090402 20:24:27< mordante> niadh, sdl is a library http://www.libsdl.org
20090402 20:24:42< mordante> Crab_, nice to see nagbot :-)
20090402 20:24:53< Crab_> mordante ))
20090402 20:26:52-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 20:27:16< Crab_> wesbot: log 34384
20090402 20:27:17< wesbot> jhinrichs * r34384 : Fix engine problem (loading a savegame from turn 1 will give all subsequent teams income where it should not do so).
20090402 20:27:20< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=34384
20090402 20:28:15< Crab_> there's a bug in there :) it is not present in r34383 and is present in r34384.  If you start a MP game, your units won't regain any moves at the start of the turn
20090402 20:29:02< Crab_> YogiHH ^^^^
20090402 20:29:44< YogiHH> ah, shoot :/
20090402 20:30:14< YogiHH> will care for that
20090402 20:30:19< Crab_> ok
20090402 20:31:50-!- heineckm [n=heineckm@139.147.36.94] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
20090402 20:34:47-!- KnightR [n=anonymou@bb121-7-175-14.singnet.com.sg] has quit []
20090402 20:37:01< euschn> YogiHH: I have updated my wiki site with some thoughts to the questions you posted - any comments are welcome, whether if its like what you had in mind, not enough details, too many details, etc.
20090402 20:37:13< esr> zookeeper: Is there an incantation I can mutter to remove a unit's canrecruit crown? 
20090402 20:37:41< YogiHH> euschn: ok, i will have a look at it some time tonight, probably
20090402 20:37:48< euschn> thanks
20090402 20:39:42-!- fendrin [n=fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 20:40:00< fendrin> Hello
20090402 20:41:20< esr> fendrin: hey!  Weneed to talk about DM.
20090402 20:42:09< esr> I've been working on it *intensively* the last few days. I've mostly cleated the to-do list.
20090402 20:42:23< esr> s/cleated/cleared/
20090402 20:44:29-!- heineckm [n=heineckm@139.147.20.89] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 20:48:29-!- Sapient [n=patrickp@wesnoth/developer/sapient] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090402 20:51:02< Turuk> Are there any SoC applicants who can confirm they just received a PM?
20090402 20:51:21< Crab_> yes
20090402 20:51:50-!- elias [n=allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 20:53:53< euschn> Turuk: i got the PM, thanks 
20090402 20:55:05< YogiHH> Soliton: any idea how to use the console_handler ingame? Or is that not possible?
20090402 20:55:32< Soliton> :command?
20090402 20:57:16< fendrin> esr: I have an last exam on the 18th of this month. After that I can dedicate time to wesnoth.
20090402 20:57:25< CIA-30> jhinrichs * r34406 /trunk/src/play_controller.cpp: hopefully correct fix now for the turn 1 income problem
20090402 20:58:09< YogiHH> Crab_: can you try and check with the latest revision if mp works fine now? I am in the middle of doing stuff so i can't do it myself with a half broken system :-)
20090402 20:58:12< esr> fendrin: OK.  It mayy be mainlined by then :-).  At the moment there is only one thing I want  to check with you.
20090402 20:58:27< fendrin> esr: zookeeper hasn't seen any showstoppers. He still needs to play the last part of it but it looks okay so far.
20090402 20:58:53< esr> Right. Here's what I wanted to check...
20090402 20:59:00 * Crab_ is compiling r34406 ...
20090402 20:59:11< fendrin> esr: I do have some time, at the moment. Nobódy is able to learn all day. It's just that I can't work on it like I did with low during the holidays at the moment.
20090402 20:59:21< niadh> mordante: If it possible to go through the code in message.cpp?
20090402 20:59:23< niadh> is
20090402 21:00:07< mordante> niadh, of course, where do you want to start?
20090402 21:00:20< zookeeper> esr, sure, just don't give it canrecruit=yes to begin with, or use {MODIFY_UNIT id=Joe canrecruit no}
20090402 21:00:20< niadh> mordante: The beginning?
20090402 21:01:49< cjhopman> Turuk: i did not get a pm
20090402 21:02:12< fendrin> esr: I am listening.
20090402 21:02:20< esr> I am strongly opposed to throwing away recall lists as a rule - players like building armies and feel let down when they lose their veterans.  So I changed the way Delf's veterans are handled; he keeps separate elvish and human recall lists continuously through the campaign and switches i n the right one for which group he's running with.  Except, not duing the 26-year gap before scenario 21.
20090402 21:02:55< mordante> niadh, it's the easiest if you ask concrete questions about what you don't understand
20090402 21:03:02< esr> Also he doesn't jkeep the special, rather obverpowered strike force he assembles before Save The Prince.
20090402 21:03:05< fendrin> esr: yes, the old comrades should return at some point.
20090402 21:03:32< niadh> mordante: Well title? I presume that's inherited from another header somewhere?
20090402 21:03:44< esr> fendrin: You probably want to look at the new sides.cfg and see if you agree with the comments abourt storyline.
20090402 21:04:06< mordante> niadh, title or title_ ?
20090402 21:04:20< niadh> title_ sorry
20090402 21:05:13< mordante> title_ is a member variable of the gui2::tmessage class
20090402 21:05:19< esr> Also, that machinery is fairly complicated and still needs testing - it would be good if you playested with an eye on whether it's doiing what sises.cfg says it shouyld.  (I'm doing this, too.)
20090402 21:05:19< niadh> ah cool
20090402 21:05:35< mordante> in wesnoth all member variables (should) have a trailing underscore
20090402 21:05:50< mordante> sorry all private members*
20090402 21:05:56< fendrin> esr: I will ask santi to stop testing LoW and swith back to DM. 
20090402 21:06:08< esr> OK.
20090402 21:06:24< Turuk> cjhopman, that is because you are not in the SoC group ;) Forwarding it to you
20090402 21:06:54< fendrin> esr: I will try to make the campaign debug save. That means support for "n" and "cl". That is something that eased the debugging of LoW very much.
20090402 21:07:13< cjhopman> Turuk: thanks.
20090402 21:07:36< esr> fendrin: Good idea.  
20090402 21:07:57< ilor> Turuk: I'm not in the group as well
20090402 21:08:09< cjhopman> and dragonking
20090402 21:08:37< fendrin> esr: Do you have a changelog which tells me the difference in the side switching mechanism?
20090402 21:08:51< Turuk> Ilor, got you as well.
20090402 21:08:56< Crab_> YogiHH: thanks. now it works ok in MP.
20090402 21:09:06< YogiHH> great
20090402 21:09:38< Turuk> Ilor, Dragonking, cjhopman: ding, you've all got mail
20090402 21:09:45-!- grantwu [n=UserXP@141-211-4-082.vpn.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 21:09:45< euschn> Ivanovic: I am currently updating my timeline with your comments in mind - do you think it is more realistic now? http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeProposal_Euschn#Timeline
20090402 21:10:11< euschn> I admit there are not much more details, but I am still ahving trouble adding concrete goals, as the design is not fixed 
20090402 21:10:42< Turuk> It's nothing major, just a few general reminders
20090402 21:10:44< grantwu> hey everyone
20090402 21:11:04< euschn> hey grantwu
20090402 21:11:47< grantwu> just here for some last minute proposal advice :)
20090402 21:11:53< esr> fendrin: Read the comments in sides.cfg, that should be better than a changelog.
20090402 21:12:00-!- heineckm [n=heineckm@139.147.20.89] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
20090402 21:12:19< fendrin> /me lols: 
20090402 21:12:21< fendrin> During the plot of this campaign Delfador changes recall lists more
20090402 21:12:22< fendrin> # often than most Wesnoth characters change their underwear.
20090402 21:12:47< esr> Well, it's probably true.
20090402 21:13:04 * mordante wonders how often they change their underwear :-P
20090402 21:13:57< esr> mordante: Pre-insdustrial culture :-)
20090402 21:14:20< mordante> so the question is do they wear underwear ;-)
20090402 21:14:29< fendrin> esr: The SUMSUME_SIDE_AND_VILLAGES could also handle the canrecuit switching and the silver hero crown handling.
20090402 21:14:39< voris> As you think of it? Not so much.
20090402 21:14:42< CIA-30> crab * r34407 /trunk/src/ (ai_manager.cpp ai_manager.hpp playsingle_controller.cpp): 
20090402 21:14:42< CIA-30> Encapsulated AI inside ai_manager to prevent the need to get
20090402 21:14:42< CIA-30> a non-const reference to private member when asking the AI
20090402 21:14:42< CIA-30> to play its turn.
20090402 21:14:48-!- IneQuation is now known as IneQuation|Away
20090402 21:15:19< esr> mordante: Do yo want a serious historical analysis?  My wife is a costume historian, so I actually know quitte a lot about the history of underwear :-)
20090402 21:15:39< esr> fendrin: Good point.
20090402 21:16:05< mordante> esr, well now I get curious, so yes please
20090402 21:17:49< esr> Going by analogy to earth cultures and how their clothing evolved, the answer is yes, the wesnothiands probably do wear underwear.  It's a cold-climate custom - Vikings had it, which was part of their technology package for over-ocean navigation.  Warmer climates around the Mediteranean, not so much.
20090402 21:18:11< fendrin> esr: I am not sure about having all the scenario specific stuff in sides.cfg.
20090402 21:18:16< CIA-30> soliton * r34408 /branches/1.6/ (changelog src/server/game.cpp src/server/server.cpp): * Implemented the adminmsg command to allow players to send messages to currently available admins; fixes bug #9218: Wish: /adminmsg
20090402 21:18:49< esr> fendrin: It's the only way to keep track of it all, IMO.  I'm aware of the downside.
20090402 21:20:40< fendrin> esr: sure? I may need to splitt this stuff depending on the player won by playing or the player switched on with n, or even worse skipped the whole scenario. Things are quite complicated.
20090402 21:20:54< mordante> esr, so it mainly depends on the warmth of the climate?
20090402 21:20:56< esr> mordante: Like medieval and modern European clothing, Wesnothian dress is clearly adapted for a relatively cool, wet climate.  So, I think they wear underwear, yes.
20090402 21:21:03< Dragonking> Hello everyone
20090402 21:21:09< mordante> hi Dragonking 
20090402 21:21:32< fendrin> Dragonking: hi, thank you for fixing the ai bug in LoW. Did you backport the fix to stable as well?
20090402 21:21:40< Dragonking> fendrin: Yup.
20090402 21:21:55< fendrin> Dragonking: superp.
20090402 21:22:12< esr> mordante: Mainly. There are some other factors; ready availability of linen is one, cultures wity that are more likely to use it for underwear as it has better properties than wool for that purpose.
20090402 21:23:05< esr> fendrin: I knpow,  But I fea we'll break throse macros in subtle ways if we can't audit them together.
20090402 21:24:22< CIA-30> soliton * r34409 /trunk/ (changelog src/server/game.cpp src/server/server.cpp): * Implemented the adminmsg command to allow players to send messages to currently available admins; fixes bug #9218: Wish: /adminmsg
20090402 21:24:35< esr> fendrin: It's, um, actually pretty impressive gathered all in one place, isn't it?  Also a little frightening...
20090402 21:24:50< fendrin> esr: Agreed. So I will start with making DM debug ready. 
20090402 21:25:22< fendrin> esr: It will be much more frightend after the debug running stuff...
20090402 21:25:59< esr> Good.  Hold off about 10 minutes, though, I'm doing a bunch of scenario renames (partly requested by zookeeper).  Just cosmetic stuff.
20090402 21:26:03-!- VladimirSlavik [n=chatzill@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 21:26:49< fendrin> esr: okay
20090402 21:27:11-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 21:28:08< mordante> esr, thanks
20090402 21:29:45< VladimirSlavik> Any info on g.w.o status? It seems stuck before 1.6.
20090402 21:29:55-!- jmunro is now known as jmunro[a]
20090402 21:30:08< grantwu> hey ivanovic, are you there?
20090402 21:31:45-!- Skizzaltix [n=chatzill@66.92.79.71] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 21:33:09-!- Chusslove [n=caslav@brsg-d9bee762.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 21:34:23< euschn> mordante: my proposal is mostly done now - basically I am missing more details for the timeline, but as you said you wanted to have a look at it, it would be great to get some comments, so I can give it a finishing touch tommorow
20090402 21:34:57< mordante> euschn, ok, reading ilor's proposal atm, will look at yours afterwards
20090402 21:35:17< euschn> mordante: thanks
20090402 21:35:47-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090402 21:35:48< Velory> mordante:  if you have any empty moment can u look at my proposal also ? comments are really important for me ?
20090402 21:35:58< Velory> After these proposals
20090402 21:35:58< zookeeper> anyone have an idea what might be up with this? http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=349406#p349406
20090402 21:36:22< grantwu> mordante: Like everyone else, if you could take a look at my proposal I'd be thankful.  I have to go to class though so if you could e-mail me your comments :)
20090402 21:36:50< mordante> Velory, "empty" moment have disappeared since gsoc started ;-) but I'll try to read it afterwards
20090402 21:36:57< mordante> same for you grantwu 
20090402 21:37:06< grantwu> all righty
20090402 21:37:08< grantwu> thanks!
20090402 21:37:14< grantwu> sigh, class.  talk to you all later
20090402 21:37:18-!- grantwu [n=UserXP@141-211-4-082.vpn.umnet.umich.edu] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090402 21:38:29-!- heineckm_ [n=heineckm@216-164-157-6.c3-0.eas-ubr5.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 21:40:19< Velory> mordante:  Same for me :) my midterms starting saturday :) but i dont have a time :)
20090402 21:40:38< Velory> mordante:  i'm trying to study about 2 days :)
20090402 21:41:16< esr> fendrin: you can start hacking after my big renames commit in a couple minutes - I'm sanity-checking it now.
20090402 21:41:19< mordante> I try start a new coding project since 1.6 was released :-/
20090402 21:42:16< mordante> ilor, I just finished reading your review and I think it looks good now
20090402 21:42:46< mordante> the timeline and milestones are fine for me now, I assume they will change during the summer
20090402 21:42:54< mordante> but there are some more goals
20090402 21:42:55-!- heineckm_ is now known as heineckm
20090402 21:43:21< ilor> mordante: such as?
20090402 21:43:44< Soliton> zookeeper: well, it's exactly as you explained there.
20090402 21:44:13< zookeeper> Soliton, the last guy to post said he did a fresh install
20090402 21:44:40< mordante> ilor, working out the design considerations and cast a dice on what to do an what not
20090402 21:44:59< Soliton> well, so he is lying.
20090402 21:44:59< zookeeper> of course it's possible he actually didn't, but..
20090402 21:45:02< zookeeper> ok :)
20090402 21:45:11< mordante> but I think that can't be determined at the moment
20090402 21:45:19< zookeeper> i'm fine with that unless more people claim the same
20090402 21:45:36< ilor> mordante: yeah my timeline assumes a room system will be agreed upon eventually, for instance
20090402 21:46:53-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090402 21:47:00< mordante> and the what to do with the "Wesnoth-less wesnothd chat / moderation" will also need some more thinking
20090402 21:47:20< ilor> mordante: true
20090402 21:47:27< mordante> I think it will be easier to decide that after you studied the protocol
20090402 21:47:51< heineckm> Hi all... is there anyone around who I can discuss my GSoC idea with?  It's regarding AI
20090402 21:48:36< mordante> heineckm, Sirp would be the best person to discuss it with, but he's not around
20090402 21:49:16< heineckm> mordante: do you happen to know when he'll be around?
20090402 21:49:32< mordante> heineckm, no, most of the time he's already around
20090402 21:50:04< mordante> ilor, but thanks for managing to fleshing it out a bit more 
20090402 21:50:09< cjhopman> 60% of the time, he's here all the time
20090402 21:50:30< heineckm> mordante: ok, thanks, I'll just grab him when he shows up then
20090402 21:50:43< ilor> mordante: no problem, I did it the way I did at first because the idea page kinda suggested that :)
20090402 21:50:45< mordante> cjhopman, that sentence looks confusing
20090402 21:50:45 * cjhopman doesn't normally bust out the movie references
20090402 21:51:04-!- faktor4u [n=faktor@chello089077167144.chello.pl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 21:51:04< mordante> :-)
20090402 21:51:05< cjhopman> i guess it shouldnt have a comma
20090402 21:51:10-!- Skizzaltix [n=chatzill@66.92.79.71] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 21:51:38< cjhopman> im not sure if it should have the comma or not... actually
20090402 21:52:13< cjhopman> ok, back to work
20090402 21:55:20-!- Blueblaze [n=nick@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 21:55:30< mordante> euschn, patch #1148 does if fix a bug and add a new feature?
20090402 21:56:02-!- Skizzaltix [n=chatzill@66.92.79.71] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 21:57:28-!- Skizzaltix [n=chatzill@66.92.79.71] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 22:00:01-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@66-189-40-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 22:04:43-!- fabi [n=fabi@g230227026.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 22:08:10< euschn> mordante: yes. two bugs actually, if you count the random naming algorithm only check for 1 out of 5 types of forests
20090402 22:08:22< euschn> s/check/checking
20090402 22:08:50< mordante> euschn, is it easy to separate them is different patches?
20090402 22:09:05< mordante> in general I prefer one commit/patch to do one thing
20090402 22:09:26< mordante> makes testing for which commit introduced a bug and if needed revert it easier
20090402 22:10:03< euschn> mordante: for the first bug it is easy, its just one line
20090402 22:10:07-!- stevenj [i=4bba7fd7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-fdac09eea22ff18e] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 22:10:43< euschn> at mapgen_dialog.cpp:384
20090402 22:11:09-!- stevenj [i=4bba7fd7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-fdac09eea22ff18e] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090402 22:16:06-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 22:20:09-!- fendrin [n=fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 22:22:41< euschn> mordante: so to get a patch for that bug only, can I just  svn diff mapgen_dialog.cpp ?
20090402 22:22:51< mordante> yes
20090402 22:22:59< euschn> ok
20090402 22:23:20< mordante> I just finished reading your idea and no remarks
20090402 22:23:40< mordante> it has a lot of details about the project itself
20090402 22:24:06< mordante> and you also discussed it a lot with YogiHH
20090402 22:24:24< euschn> mordante: indeed, hence the lot of ideas
20090402 22:24:50< mordante> which is good
20090402 22:25:48< euschn> mordante: ah great. I was afraid I would have to deliver a more detailed design for now
20090402 22:26:05< mordante> well of course we would love that ;-)
20090402 22:26:37< mordante> but kidding aside, we can't expect you to redesign that mess in a few days
20090402 22:26:40< euschn> mordante: I would not mind it either, but thats the thing I am having problems with currently
20090402 22:26:42< euschn> hehe
20090402 22:27:57-!- happygrue [n=George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 22:30:13< euschn> mordante: I now attached the patch for the bug fix only to patch #1148
20090402 22:30:45< mordante> thanks
20090402 22:30:51< euschn> the other would need some code tinkering to get out alone
20090402 22:31:00< YogiHH> ha! Finally beat that evil reference/destructor combination in my code. Duh, i am out of practice, obviously, have played too much multiplayer ;-)
20090402 22:31:46< mordante> getting things out in git is so easy :-)
20090402 22:33:19< mordante> Velory, when you want to add a debugging GUI in Wesnoth (inside the Wesnoth code) you'd better use the gui toolkit we have
20090402 22:33:56< mordante> Velory, for the details of the AI proposal you should talk to Sirp
20090402 22:36:08< Velory> mordante:  Ok so your toolkit is sdl right? or 
20090402 22:36:36< mordante> Velory, this is the new toolkit I'm working on http://wesnoth.org/wiki/GUIToolkit
20090402 22:36:50< mordante> it's uses SDL, but has an API around it
20090402 22:37:27< Velory> mordante: i see then i will use this toolkit :)
20090402 22:37:47< Velory> mordante:  i couldnt saw Sirp about 4 or 5 days :S 
20090402 22:37:48-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 22:38:08< mordante> Velory, just wait until he shows up
20090402 22:38:36< mordante> the applications needs to be submitted on tomorrow at google after that you can still change the wiki
20090402 22:38:46< Velory> mordante:  i see
20090402 22:38:58< mordante> so there's no real hurry 
20090402 22:39:46-!- faktor4u [n=faktor@chello089077167144.chello.pl] has quit ["..."]
20090402 22:40:20< Velory> mordante:  ok thanks for comments :)
20090402 22:40:26< Velory> mordante:  any other thing ?
20090402 22:40:34< mordante> still reading
20090402 22:41:05-!- zookeeper [n=l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20090402 22:41:16< mordante> is Turkey still GMT+2 no DST?
20090402 22:42:03-!- VladimirSlavik [n=chatzill@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090402 22:42:14< Velory> we using gmt +2
20090402 22:42:19< Velory> i dont know what is dst ? :S
20090402 22:42:27< mordante> daylight saving time
20090402 22:42:46< Velory> hmm yes i saw that
20090402 22:42:53< Velory> yes we using dst
20090402 22:42:56< Velory> i think
20090402 22:43:02-!- Dragonking [n=dk@wesnoth/developer/dragonking] has quit []
20090402 22:43:03< Velory> but now time is 23.43 here
20090402 22:43:15< mordante> that's gtm+3 ;-)
20090402 22:43:20< Velory> wow :D
20090402 22:43:27< Velory> so we using gmt +2 winter
20090402 22:43:35< Velory> gmt +3 sumer
20090402 22:44:01< mordante> not too important, I was just curious
20090402 22:44:32< mordante> over here it's GTM+1 in winter and +2 in the summer
20090402 22:44:56-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 22:44:57< Velory> hmm
20090402 22:45:04< Velory> where are you from poland ? 
20090402 22:45:13< mordante> no the Netherlands
20090402 22:45:17< Velory> hmm i see :)
20090402 22:45:33< Velory> i have a friend from poland they are using same time 
20090402 22:46:03< mordante> yes we have quite some people in that timezone here
20090402 22:46:38< YogiHH> euschn: that's a good proposal, nothing to add from my side here :-D
20090402 22:47:11< corn> does wesnoth have any builtin functions for handling commandline args?
20090402 22:47:18< corn> just so I don't have to reinvent the wheel
20090402 22:47:20 * Velory everyone loves euschn :p
20090402 22:47:37< mordante> corn, no but the code is in game.cpp
20090402 22:48:13< corn> wow that looks messy
20090402 22:48:26< corn> does it work on windows as well?
20090402 22:48:27< mordante> Velory, nice proposal with a lot of details, but as I said before discuss those details with Sirp
20090402 22:48:35-!- Sparks [n=Sparkste@78-105-212-150.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 22:48:36< mordante> corn, it should
20090402 22:48:39< corn> ok
20090402 22:48:44< corn> thanks
20090402 22:48:51< Sparks> hi everyone :)
20090402 22:48:52-!- Sparks is now known as Guest10113
20090402 22:48:57< mordante> I can't see why it won't work
20090402 22:48:57< Velory> mordante:  Ok thanks :)
20090402 22:49:05< mordante> hi Guest10113 
20090402 22:49:14< Guest10113> lolo 1 sec...
20090402 22:49:16-!- Guest10113 [n=Sparkste@78-105-212-150.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has left #wesnoth-dev ["Leaving"]
20090402 22:49:25< Velory> haha
20090402 22:49:26< Velory> :D
20090402 22:49:28-!- Guest10113 [n=Sparkste@78-105-212-150.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 22:49:34-!- Guest10113 [n=Sparkste@78-105-212-150.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit]
20090402 22:50:02-!- Sparks_ [n=Sparkste@78-105-212-150.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 22:50:10< Sparks_> hi everyone again :)
20090402 22:50:14< mordante> hi Sparks_ 
20090402 22:50:18< mordante> ;-)
20090402 22:50:28< Velory> hi Guest10113  :P
20090402 22:50:33< Sparks_> ....
20090402 22:50:34< Velory> i love Guest10113 :D
20090402 22:50:40< Sparks_> ....
20090402 22:50:45< Sparks_> :P
20090402 22:50:46< Velory> much gooder than sparks :x
20090402 22:50:49< Velory> :P
20090402 22:51:00< Sparks_> i agree.. :)
20090402 22:51:20< Velory> Matrix_Hacker_Hack_Hack_Hack10113223
20090402 22:51:33< euschn> YogiHH: thanks, the level of detial on the timeline is ok aswell?
20090402 22:51:46< Sparks_>  Velory:   how things ...  all ready for tomorrow? :)
20090402 22:53:04< Velory> Sparks_:  hmm yes i think :) but i need to discuss more with Sirp,Boucman
20090402 22:53:14< YogiHH> euschn: yes, that's alright. I shortly thought about your testing period at the end, as i think the project should have continous testing in between. But it is also good to have a period where you stop coding features and clean up what's there.
20090402 22:53:35< Velory> Sparks_:  my midterms starting at saturday so these days i may not write a patch but im improving my proposal
20090402 22:53:48< Sparks_> This Saturday?
20090402 22:53:50< YogiHH> euschn: and the time frames seem very reasonable to me
20090402 22:54:04< euschn> YogiHH: ok great
20090402 22:54:41< Velory> Sparks_:  Yes why ?
20090402 22:54:58< Sparks_> Velory: What about Easter?
20090402 22:55:11< Velory> Sparks_:  whats easter ?
20090402 22:55:34< Sparks_> Easter holidays?
20090402 22:55:55< Velory> Sparks_: yes saturday is holiday
20090402 22:56:05< Velory> Sparks_:  But our exams can be in Saturday also
20090402 22:56:25< Velory> Sparks_:  But cant in sundays
20090402 22:56:30< Sparks_> Why?
20090402 22:56:34< Velory> Sparks_:  Dunno
20090402 22:56:56< CIA-30> esr * r34410 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
20090402 22:56:56< CIA-30> Remove two keeps from the map, rather than hacking them away in WML
20090402 22:56:56< CIA-30> (which is no longer necssary).
20090402 22:57:00< Sparks_> o :)
20090402 22:57:20< Velory> Sparks_:  :) but yes :D our weekends are saturday and sunday if you mean that
20090402 22:59:55< Sparks_> YogiHH:  Hello,  were you by any chance able to have another look at my more detailed example yesterday? :)
20090402 23:00:05< mordante> I'm off night
20090402 23:00:25-!- mordante [n=mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090402 23:01:08-!- nagbot [n=root@smtp.terraninfo.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 23:01:11< nagbot> Hello!
20090402 23:01:14< nagbot> Attention all potential GSoC students:
20090402 23:01:17< nagbot> Please do not forget to submit your application to Google!
20090402 23:01:19< nagbot> The deadline for the application is friday, april 3rd, at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST)
20090402 23:01:22< nagbot> Everyone not enlisted in the google tracker at that time will have *no* chance to participate with Wesnoth as part of summer of code 2009, no matter how good your proposal in the wiki is or *whatever
20090402 23:01:26< nagbot> We can select ONLY people listed there!
20090402 23:01:29< nagbot> Submit patches for review, so we'll see how you work.
20090402 23:01:31< nagbot> Discuss your ideas here - get important feedback from developers
20090402 23:01:37-!- nagbot [n=root@smtp.terraninfo.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20090402 23:02:25-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 23:02:50< Sparks_> Hi Turok:)
20090402 23:09:34< Sparks_> is anyone around?
20090402 23:09:37-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090402 23:10:09< euschn> im off for today, good night
20090402 23:10:13-!- euschn [n=chatzill@85-127-111-184.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009030423]"]
20090402 23:10:44-!- Jetrel [n=Jetrel@wesnoth/artist/jetrel] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090402 23:10:52-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 23:11:08< Sparks_> good night :)
20090402 23:11:39-!- AndreLuiz [n=AndreLui@unaffiliated/andreluiz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 23:11:58< YogiHH> ho Sparks_ :-)
20090402 23:12:09< Sparks_>  hello :)
20090402 23:12:22< Sparks_> I though everyone was really busy.... 
20090402 23:12:33< YogiHH> we are :-)
20090402 23:12:46< Sparks_> I can imagine....  :P
20090402 23:12:56< Sparks_> lots of requests maybe... :)
20090402 23:13:07 * YogiHH has to prepare some stuff for his customer tomorrow
20090402 23:14:46< Sparks_> YogiHH: Which customers?...
20090402 23:15:13< Sparks_> YogiHH: an dhow do you do the little star actions on here... :)
20090402 23:16:05< YogiHH> It's a customer of mine that i do some database stuff for. They build huge machines for plastic bottles.
20090402 23:16:47< YogiHH> they don't show up as little stars here, but i suppose you mean "/me" in front of your message ;-)
20090402 23:18:10 * Sparks_ I'm busy :)
20090402 23:18:16< YogiHH> They are actually doing the machines for Coca-Cola
20090402 23:18:17< Sparks_> ahhhhh... cool
20090402 23:18:31< Sparks_> liek a global-wide sorta thing... ?
20090402 23:18:42< Sparks_> 'like'  ... sry
20090402 23:18:57< Polarina> I had a hard disk drive die today. :(
20090402 23:18:57< YogiHH> yes, they deliver most of their machines into other countries
20090402 23:19:18< Polarina> For now, the cause of death is unknown.
20090402 23:19:55< YogiHH> Polarina: doesn't sound good...
20090402 23:20:04< Sparks_> YogiHH: lots of SQl then... ?
20090402 23:21:05< YogiHH> Sparks_: well, it depends, but often times yes. I mainly work around that standard SAP system they didn't want to customize too much :-)
20090402 23:22:12< Sparks_> funny...  our project at university involves quite a bit of databse work.... :P
20090402 23:22:35< Sparks_> pity it wasn't AI work... or I'd be really warmed up for this ... :)
20090402 23:22:46< YogiHH> :-)
20090402 23:23:09< Sparks_> Do you like designing Database tables .... :)
20090402 23:23:12< Sparks_> ?
20090402 23:23:22< Polarina> I know how it's done, and I am good at it, but I don't do it much.
20090402 23:23:46< Velory> Me too :)
20090402 23:23:50< YogiHH> Sparks_: yes, i do
20090402 23:24:17< Polarina> I prefer programming and researching potentially useless stuff.
20090402 23:24:48-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 23:25:15-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 23:25:17< Sparks_> :) cool....  I though I was just a bit weird...  I am finding designing a good set of tables quite satisfying... :)
20090402 23:25:29< Polarina> MyISAM or InnoDB?
20090402 23:26:11-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
20090402 23:26:16< Sparks_> Well...  funnyly enough...  in our particular project it hasn't really mattered much.... as we deal with most of the data-validation at the php level...
20090402 23:26:39< Sparks_> but InnoDB seems more 'secure'... :)
20090402 23:27:04 * YogiHH is a great supporter of getting business logic out of the database...
20090402 23:27:05< Polarina> Pick the one that suits each and every table best.
20090402 23:28:08< YogiHH> Sparks_: however, i am ok with constraints and field level validation in the database
20090402 23:30:17< YogiHH> Sparks_: It's just that in another project i have to use a database that has a dumb gui and does each and every business rule inside of stored procedures. *Shiver*
20090402 23:30:48< Sparks_> Polarina:   YogiHH:   We have been talking about where to put the validations actually....  the problem is that the DB cannot properly cover even all of the fairly standard validations such as validating a name, email field etc.   so we have ended up with the validation spread across 3 ares of the code... one bit in the DB, one in the so called 'data-models' (they have a nice little OO php framework we are supposed to use) and 
20090402 23:30:48< Sparks_> one in another part of the php code... quite unsatisfactory... :(
20090402 23:31:19< Sparks_> YogiHH:  is that a MYSQL one?
20090402 23:31:29< YogiHH> no, microsoft sql server
20090402 23:32:19< Polarina> I'm not much of a fan of databases.
20090402 23:33:24-!- molgrum [n=molgrum@c83-249-53-163.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Lämnar"]
20090402 23:33:37< YogiHH> I recently built a web application, that has 3 areas of validation, and i found that pretty good, actually. One is on GUI level (formatting, required values and ranges where applicable), another in the business layer (cross field validation, sum checks and stuff) and the rest inside the database (field level validation)
20090402 23:34:05< Sparks_> Polarina:  lol  I would agree in a way... but most major business have one now...  and very complicated to re-store data into a different database (like a more OO one).. :)
20090402 23:34:21 * Polarina prefers validating things before inserting them into the database in the first place...
20090402 23:35:16< YogiHH> Polarina: Of course, you should do that. On the other hand, during development we often had the database tell us that we missed a check, still :-)
20090402 23:35:27< Sparks_> YogiHH:  funny...  that seems to fit pretty closely with what we have now..  sorta.. :P  it ok after you get used to it I guess...  but then the question is ... why both having field level validation in MYSQL at all.... ?  :)
20090402 23:36:08< YogiHH> Sparks_: It is a help for development and a must if the database is open for out-of-application access
20090402 23:36:40< Crab_> it is even better if those levels of validation (gui, business layer, persistence layer) are defined in one place...
20090402 23:36:47< Sparks_> Yogi: as in out-of-application access for developers you mean?
20090402 23:37:16< Polarina> Sparks_: Evil person bit-rotating all data by 3.
20090402 23:37:33< Sparks_> lol :)
20090402 23:38:24< YogiHH> Sparks_: not only devs. On windows there is this evil ODBC that makes you access each and every database. You can open up microsoft excel, set up a database connection, call a stored procedure and push the results into a sheet. All you need is an account that is allowed to access the DB.
20090402 23:39:06< Sparks_> ....  I see... :)
20090402 23:39:09< YogiHH> Also, if the database is open, with time there tend to grow "tools" around it :-)
20090402 23:39:58-!- karl_m [n=karlm@210.11.197.219] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090402 23:40:14< Sparks_> ....  sound like a nice metaphor for OO programming in general lol :)
20090402 23:40:14-!- iyonius [n=iyo@a02-0829c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 23:40:48< YogiHH> I have seen this at Talkine, a telephone provider over here. They had to switch their system and the biggest problem by far was adapting a dozen undocumented applications that have developed over 10 years.
20090402 23:40:55< YogiHH> Talkline
20090402 23:41:15-!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090402 23:41:20< Sparks_> YogiHH:  don't talk about undocumented applications to me right now!    :(
20090402 23:41:24< YogiHH> since the old system had an open database and the new one didn't
20090402 23:41:41< Sparks_> The framework we're using is the epitome of undocumented... :)
20090402 23:41:57< Sparks_> a lovely api consisting of.......
20090402 23:42:04 * Polarina likes undocumented stuff.
20090402 23:42:14< Sparks_> just the member names and method names.. :)
20090402 23:42:20< YogiHH> welcome to the club. Guess what's dismissed first if a project found itself on a mission impossible ;-)
20090402 23:42:24< Sparks_> no explantion what so ever... :)
20090402 23:42:38< Polarina> Sparks_: Good APIs don't need documentations.
20090402 23:42:52< Sparks_> Polarina:  why?
20090402 23:43:06< Polarina> Sparks_: Because they are good, and straightforward. :)
20090402 23:43:07 * YogiHH hasn't seen a good API in 20 years :-)
20090402 23:43:34< Crab_> YogiHH: good api is empty api. when *it just works* (tm) )
20090402 23:43:53< Sparks_> Polarina:  well....  hmm.... if they are perfectely designed ... maybe...  but naming for a start can be very very misleading if you don't have any explanations...
20090402 23:45:58< Sparks_> YogiHH:  btw... any thoughts about my updates in the GSoC proposal... :)
20090402 23:46:48-!- busfahrer|TI [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)]
20090402 23:47:02< Sparks_> o ...  sounds like everyone's dissappeared again lol.... 
20090402 23:47:14 * Polarina appears.
20090402 23:47:33< Sparks_> \m thanks :)
20090402 23:47:41< YogiHH> Sparks_: I took a short look yesterday, but by that time a detailed timeline was still missing. Did you add that meanwhile?
20090402 23:47:42< Sparks_> 1 sec..
20090402 23:48:30< Sparks_> YogiHH:  I've now filled in some more stuff for the timeline...  its in 4 small sections...  (is it detailed enough?..) :)
20090402 23:49:10< Sparks_> http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeProposal_Sparksteel
20090402 23:49:29< Turuk_> Sometimes people do have to disappear for a while ;)
20090402 23:49:51< YogiHH> Sparks_: I'd really break it down to the 2-3 days chunks that we talked about. That will make the judgement of feasibility a lot easier - for both you and us
20090402 23:50:43< Sparks_> YogiHH: I'll try to make it more detailed now...  :)  thanks..
20090402 23:51:25< Sparks_> YogiHH: probably a week by week sorta thing.. 
20090402 23:52:00< Velory> YogiHH:  do u have any time for look at my proposal ?
20090402 23:52:06< Velory> too
20090402 23:52:14< Sparks_> YogiHH: it just I'm not too sure about what I can put for each 2 days ...  it'll be like continue to do this... :)
20090402 23:52:14< Velory> comments are realy improtant at this time :)
20090402 23:53:03< Sparks_> :) I agree.. 
20090402 23:53:24< YogiHH> Sparks_: In my experience a week for an experienced coder is a good timeframe to work with. But for a beginner it is hard to estimate right (beginner in terms of doing real life code projects).
20090402 23:54:03< YogiHH> what the...
20090402 23:54:19 * YogiHH 's firewall just died
20090402 23:54:51 * Polarina hates firewalls.
20090402 23:55:34< Sparks_> YogiHH: I'll have another go.. :)
20090402 23:55:37< YogiHH> Sparks_: The most important thing is to be honest to yourself. If you are unsure about what you can achieve in 2 days, it won't be easier if you enlarge the timeframe.
20090402 23:56:13< YogiHH> Sparks_: Give it a try and we can comment on it and help you make it realistic
20090402 23:56:28< Sparks_> YogiHH: ok.... :)
20090402 23:56:36< Sparks_> I'll be back...
20090402 23:56:45< Sparks_> ;)
20090402 23:56:47 * Polarina has a 500 GB hard disk drive with nothing to fill it with.
20090402 23:57:02< YogiHH> Velory: I will, but it probably won't be tonight
20090402 23:57:16 * Velory has 1tb :)
20090402 23:57:24< Velory> YogiHH:  Ok thanks
20090402 23:57:29< Velory> anyway
20090402 23:57:35< YogiHH> ok, i am kinda off now, i really have to prepare that stuff for tomorrow and it is midnight meanwhile ;-)
20090402 23:57:42< Polarina> Velory: In total, I got more than twice that amount...
20090402 23:57:44< Sparks_> bye :)
20090402 23:57:55< Sparks_> good luck :P
20090402 23:59:18< Polarina> Velory: What do you have on your disk?
--- Log closed Fri Apr 03 00:00:19 2009