--- Log opened Fri Apr 03 00:00:19 2009
--- Day changed Fri Apr 03 2009
20090403 00:00:19< Polarina> I was thinking of writing tons of code snippets, but I would never be able to fill a disk anytime soon...
20090403 00:02:38-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.222] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 00:06:37-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@66-189-40-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Hi! I'm a quit message virus vaccine. If you see a quit message virus, don't replace your quit message with it!"]
20090403 00:06:38< Turuk_> corn: around?
20090403 00:07:25< corn> Turuk_: yes
20090403 00:07:43< Turuk_> You are cornmander in the forums, correct?
20090403 00:07:55< CIA-30> espreon * r34411 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/TODO: Updated the TODO list.
20090403 00:08:09< Turuk_> Would you like to be added to the SoC group given that you are aiming at participating?
20090403 00:08:10< corn> Turuk_: yes
20090403 00:08:14< corn> yes
20090403 00:08:23< Turuk_> Ok.
20090403 00:09:46< Velory> Polarina:  not much
20090403 00:10:17-!- Dragonking [n=dk@wesnoth/developer/dragonking] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 00:11:09< CIA-30> dragonking * r34412 /trunk/src/formula_ai.cpp: Fix for bug #13286
20090403 00:11:15< Dragonking> Crab_: Fixed
20090403 00:11:26< Crab_> good
20090403 00:11:30< Crab_> thanks
20090403 00:11:42< Dragonking> Tho I think I found something more... but I'll look into it later
20090403 00:11:48< Crab_> ))
20090403 00:16:55< CIA-30> dragonking * r34413 /branches/1.6/src/formula_ai.cpp: Ported r34412 to 1.6
20090403 00:17:15-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@p5B176606.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 00:17:33-!- busfahrer is now known as busfahrer|TI
20090403 00:19:03< Ivanovic> off to bed i go, n8
20090403 00:19:07-!- salty-horse [n=ori@bzq-79-176-40-88.red.bezeqint.net] has left #wesnoth-dev ["Leaving"]
20090403 00:19:12< Crab_> night, Ivanovic
20090403 00:19:30< Dragonking> n8 Ivanovic 
20090403 00:19:53-!- alink [n=alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 00:20:08< Ivanovic> (and for tomorrow in the evening, when the deadline is done and "real" reviews can start, i think i will get me some extra beer, might be required when reading this much...)
20090403 00:21:15< Dragonking> Ivanovic: I'll make sure my application is complete tomorrow. :)
20090403 00:21:40< Ivanovic> Dragonking: great
20090403 00:22:44< Ivanovic> ugh, 12 currently uncommented applications in the google tracker
20090403 00:22:54< Ivanovic> why are so many submitting stuff in the last minuite?!?
20090403 00:23:31< Dragonking> Ivanovic: And total number of applications is...?
20090403 00:24:00< Ivanovic> currently the total number of (valid) applications is at 27 for wesnoth
20090403 00:24:18< Ivanovic> (that is two retreated with their proposal and i marked one as spam)
20090403 00:24:30< Dragonking> I see.
20090403 00:25:06< Ivanovic> but there are still almost 20h left so some people might still submit some proposals
20090403 00:25:07< Dragonking> ok, no more questions, you need to sleep now ;)
20090403 00:25:22< Ivanovic> so it will probably be something like 30 at the end that we will have to really review, comment on and so on
20090403 00:25:30< Ivanovic> yes, i really do
20090403 00:25:33< Ivanovic> n8 (again)
20090403 00:25:36< Dragonking> Bye bye
20090403 00:26:23< CIA-30> rhuvaen * r34414 /branches/1.6/data/multiplayer/scenarios/2p_Dark_Forecast.cfg: fixed bug where spawns would recover all hp lost in initial attacks in their spawning turn while transferring between AI sides.
20090403 00:27:12-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 00:29:05< Velory> n8 ivanovic :D
20090403 00:34:42-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090403 00:34:54-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has quit ["Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"]
20090403 00:35:36-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@wesnoth/bot/loonybot] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 00:39:25-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 00:49:12-!- stikonas [n=stikonas@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 00:59:29< CIA-30> soliton * r34415 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
20090403 00:59:29< CIA-30> * Added the camouflage AMLA back.
20090403 00:59:29< CIA-30> * Gave the Hero variation more HP.
20090403 01:00:02< Sparks_> hight guys :)
20090403 01:00:07< Sparks_> night i mean :)
20090403 01:00:27-!- Sparks_ [n=Sparkste@78-105-212-150.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090403 01:00:28< Polarina> Hight night, Sparks_. :)
20090403 01:02:05-!- niadh [n=niadh@78-86-134-181.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
20090403 01:05:11-!- Chusslove [n=caslav@brsg-d9bee762.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #wesnoth-dev ["Kopete 0.12.7 : http://kopete.kde.org"]
20090403 01:11:48-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@c-68-49-10-243.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 01:14:31-!- Crab_ [n=crab_@c.218.175.a530.sta.adsl.cyfra.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090403 01:14:34< CIA-30> rhuvaen * r34416 /trunk/data/multiplayer/scenarios/2p_Dark_Forecast.cfg: fixed bug where spawns would recover all hp lost in initial attacks in their spawning turn while transferring between AI sides.
20090403 01:14:49-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 01:16:09< CIA-30> rhuvaen * r34417 /branches/1.6/data/multiplayer/scenarios/2p_Dark_Forecast.cfg: reworked: fixed bug where spawns would recover all hp lost in initial attacks in their spawning turn while transferring between AI sides.
20090403 01:29:35-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has quit ["night all"]
20090403 01:37:05-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 01:38:28-!- happygrue [n=George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit ["http://xkcd.com/91/"]
20090403 01:54:47< CIA-30> soliton * r34418 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
20090403 01:54:47< CIA-30> * Reduced XP requirements for the Captain variation.
20090403 01:54:47< CIA-30> * Disabled the sword2 (and thus armor) AMLA for the Captain variation.
20090403 01:54:47< CIA-30> * Enabled the bolas AMLA for all variations.
20090403 01:55:12-!- ikarius [n=ross@smtp.gridironsystems.com] has quit []
20090403 01:55:42< YogiHH> Soliton: You got any idea, if the console_handler can be used ingame?
20090403 01:56:26< Soliton> it can only be used ingame.
20090403 01:56:44< YogiHH> from the command line?
20090403 01:57:08< Soliton> yes.
20090403 01:57:44< YogiHH> Soliton: What's the goal of this, if there is a nice gui?
20090403 01:59:04< Soliton> i'm missing something here.
20090403 01:59:34< Soliton> we're talking about the console_handler class, yes?
20090403 01:59:50< Soliton> which handles :commands?
20090403 01:59:58< YogiHH> Soliton: Yes. Well, i can save a game from the command line, then, but it doesn't seem to be of much use.
20090403 02:01:27< Soliton> maybe someone rather likes to type :save than ctrl+s? *shrug*
20090403 02:02:33< Soliton> why didn't you just ask what use the :save command is? or is there more?
20090403 02:03:02< YogiHH> Soliton: it seems to provide the whole menu, more or less
20090403 02:03:21< Soliton> and a lot more...
20090403 02:04:56< Soliton> it also allows you to define aliases so if you always want to ":save test" you can alias that and probably bind to a key.
20090403 02:05:39< YogiHH> hmm, ok
20090403 02:06:46< YogiHH> good night everyone
20090403 02:06:56< Soliton> a more useful example might be to alias ":unit hitpoints=1" for testing or something.
20090403 02:07:04< Soliton> night.
20090403 02:07:11-!- YogiHH [n=chatzill@wesnoth/developer/yogihh] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 02:08:58-!- Sirp [n=me@wesnoth/developer/dave] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 02:09:46-!- Polarina [n=polarina@wesnoth/translator/Polarina] has quit ["Leaving."]
20090403 02:25:11-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 02:30:03-!- Morian [i=romain@bezut.info] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 02:30:05-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 02:32:35-!- Skizzaltix [n=chatzill@66.92.79.71] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 02:45:02-!- Skizzaltix [n=chatzill@66.92.79.71] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 02:53:12-!- oak_ [i=oakus@c02--112b.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090403 02:58:57-!- Skizzaltix [n=chatzill@66.92.79.71] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 03:02:56-!- busfahrer|TI is now known as busfahrer
20090403 03:03:03-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit ["leaving"]
20090403 03:05:50-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 03:17:03< CIA-30> soliton * r34419 /branches/1.6/src/server/server.cpp: do not send the adminmsg back if an admin sent it
20090403 03:17:48< CIA-30> soliton * r34420 /trunk/src/server/server.cpp: do not send the adminmsg back if an admin sent it
20090403 03:21:55-!- ikarius [n=ross@216.27.182.3] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 03:24:23-!- happygrue [n=George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 03:27:38< Velory> good nite everyone
20090403 03:27:39-!- Velory [n=GProcess@85.99.35.216] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 03:33:37-!- alink [n=alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 03:34:55-!- res|laptop [n=res@pdpc/supporter/student/res2k] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090403 03:35:29-!- res|laptop [n=res@erft-4d07d7fd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 03:39:43< CIA-30> soliton * r34421 /branches/1.6/src/server/server.cpp: 
20090403 03:39:43< CIA-30> Revert "do not send the adminmsg back if an admin sent it"
20090403 03:39:43< CIA-30> it was actually helpful since there is no local echo..
20090403 03:40:30< CIA-30> soliton * r34422 /trunk/src/server/server.cpp: 
20090403 03:40:30< CIA-30> Revert "do not send the adminmsg back if an admin sent it"
20090403 03:40:30< CIA-30> it was actually helpful since there is no local echo..
20090403 03:42:34-!- Skizzaltix [n=chatzill@66.92.79.71] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 03:49:29-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 03:50:32-!- Blueblaze [n=nick@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 04:07:52-!- grantwu [n=grant@westquad-150060.reshall.umich.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 04:09:35-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit ["leaving"]
20090403 04:09:36-!- csaunders [n=chris@ip216-239-82-147.vif.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 04:13:49-!- Ivanovic_ [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db2d055.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 04:15:46-!- KingofCamelot [n=davidsan@ip98-182-16-78.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 04:17:45< CIA-30> dfranke * r34423 /branches/1.6/src/playsingle_controller.cpp: Revert addition of input_blocker, which introduced bug #13298, from 1.6. esr only reverted it from trunk.
20090403 04:18:13< esr> dfranke: Ah, good catch.
20090403 04:22:52-!- [Relic] [n=[Relic]@76.229.202.137] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 04:23:49< [Relic]> Hello :)
20090403 04:27:58< grantwu> Hey guys, when I submit my proposal to google I should just write up a short abstract and link to my wiki in the contents section, right?
20090403 04:28:23< dfranke> esr: I've been using svn's new sparse trees feature to commit to 1.6 and trunk with a single revision.  Convenient for me but might be a tad confusing for others, sorry.
20090403 04:30:03-!- Ivanovic [n=ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090403 04:31:47-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic
20090403 04:37:11< esr> Ivanovic: I think I'm going to add another feature to wnlxgettext - notes for translators, which can occur near a translatable string and get put in the .po file as comments near it.  (I'll use them, for example, to explain the dialect words and archaisms I like to use.) Do you have a preference about the source syntax for these?
20090403 04:37:45< Soliton> grantwu: yes.
20090403 04:38:17< grantwu> Soltin: all righty, thanks
20090403 04:38:28 * Shadow_Master suggests tab completion
20090403 04:41:34-!- stevenj [i=cdda447d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4050655ae1d0742d] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 04:41:53-!- stevenj [i=cdda447d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4050655ae1d0742d] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 04:42:39-!- JW1 [n=X@rrcs-24-106-114-210.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 04:57:59-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 05:32:51-!- Ivanovic [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db2d055.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 05:32:51-!- Ivanovic [n=ivanovic@dtmd-4db2d055.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 05:35:01-!- martyfuhry [n=marty@ip-131-123-95-3.housing.res.kent.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 05:46:04-!- Tigge [n=tigge@bacchus.olf.sgsnet.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090403 05:47:07-!- Tigge [n=tigge@bacchus.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 05:48:29-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090403 05:50:21-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 06:07:28-!- aledias [n=IceChat7@189.27.227.93.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 06:20:02-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090403 06:23:10-!- elminse [n=elminsei@netblock-208-127-84-182.dslextreme.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 06:24:28-!- elminse [n=elminsei@netblock-208-127-84-182.dslextreme.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 06:27:08-!- [Relic] [n=[Relic]@76.229.202.137] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090403 06:27:38-!- csaunders [n=chris@ip216-239-82-147.vif.net] has quit ["csaunders has no reason"]
20090403 06:28:33-!- JW1 [n=X@rrcs-24-106-114-210.central.biz.rr.com] has quit []
20090403 06:30:05-!- iyonius [n=iyo@a02-0829c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 06:30:55-!- aledias [n=IceChat7@189.27.227.93.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit ["If your not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space"]
20090403 06:36:25-!- rohita [n=Kasun@125.214.176.160] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 06:37:26-!- rohita [n=Kasun@125.214.176.160] has quit [Client Quit]
20090403 06:39:35-!- Sirp [n=me@wesnoth/developer/dave] has quit ["leaving"]
20090403 06:43:01-!- grantwu [n=grant@westquad-150060.reshall.umich.edu] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 07:13:27-!- karl_m [n=karlm@210.11.197.219] has quit ["leaving"]
20090403 07:14:10-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@79.139.246.190] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 07:30:03-!- KingofCamelot [n=davidsan@ip98-182-16-78.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090403 07:35:13-!- KingofCamelot [n=davidsan@ip98-182-16-78.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 07:39:20< CIA-30> soliton * r34424 /branches/1.6/src/server/server.cpp: allow faking the sender for messages from the socket and correctly process /me for log messages
20090403 07:39:49< CIA-30> soliton * r34425 /trunk/src/server/server.cpp: allow faking the sender for messages from the socket and correctly process /me for log messages
20090403 07:52:32-!- happygrue [n=George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit ["http://xkcd.com/91/"]
20090403 07:58:48-!- zookeeper [n=l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 07:59:19< zookeeper> Soliton, rhuvaen: those changes to DF would cause OOS between the 1.6 versions...is that really necessary?
20090403 07:59:31-!- freim [n=hogne@wesnoth/artist/freim] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 07:59:33< zookeeper> oh, wait. would they? i guess not, after all.
20090403 07:59:53< Soliton> i haven't looked at the changes.
20090403 07:59:53 * zookeeper concludes he should think first
20090403 08:00:33< Soliton> zookeeper: can you check if the terrain strings in camouflage are uptodate?
20090403 08:02:33< zookeeper> i suppose it's intended that it doesn't include normal sand?
20090403 08:02:54< Soliton> yeah, i think so.
20090403 08:03:56-!- Blueblaze [n=nick@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 08:04:01< zookeeper> looks ok. it won't work in rubble-on-desert or oasis, though.
20090403 08:04:37< Soliton> i noticed it doesn't work on a desert mountain overlayd with forest either but not sure if anyone cares..
20090403 08:04:59< Soliton> hmm, oasis might be nice?
20090403 08:05:15-!- Morian_ [i=romain@bezut.info] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 08:05:47< Soliton> i don't know if there is a differnce between rubble and craters.
20090403 08:05:47< zookeeper> sure, just add Dd^Do
20090403 08:06:02< zookeeper> yeah, craters are just a simple alias of desert/sand
20090403 08:06:14< Soliton> oh, i know. ok.
20090403 08:08:49< CIA-30> soliton * r34426 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/Kaleh.cfg: made camouflage work on oasis
20090403 08:08:52< Soliton> if you have any other ideas for kaleh's amlas..
20090403 08:13:18< zookeeper> well, not much besides adding that new rogue line for him. backstab, skirmisher and such.
20090403 08:14:54< Soliton> ah yes, that is not bad.
20090403 08:19:27-!- Morian__ [i=romain@bezut.info] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 08:19:52< zookeeper> or you could allow him to become a shaman :P
20090403 08:20:06< zookeeper> ultimately with rainbow-coloured wings, of course
20090403 08:20:28< zookeeper> and a giggling sound whenever you click on him
20090403 08:21:04-!- Morian [i=romain@bezut.info] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090403 08:29:57 * Soliton clicks on zookeeper.
20090403 08:34:10< zookeeper> doesn't seem to work.
20090403 08:34:33< Soliton> just let it out! you know you want to.
20090403 08:34:34-!- Morian_ [i=romain@bezut.info] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090403 08:34:53< Soliton> pfff.. https://gna.org/bugs/?13308
20090403 08:35:02-!- KingofCamelot [n=davidsan@ip98-182-16-78.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090403 08:35:43< Soliton> any objections to closing with a hint on the dialog?
20090403 08:37:51< dfranke> How about a hint on not really needing to kill off all the orcs in order to win that scenario :-)
20090403 08:38:04< zookeeper> i'm not sure. of course he apparently ignored the dialogue, but regardless of that it might still be nice to increase the turns at that point, maybe.
20090403 08:39:06< Soliton> maybe give another message if you haven't check X turns before end?
20090403 08:39:21< zookeeper> yeah, i was just thinking that there probably should be a reminder
20090403 08:42:10-!- voris [n=voris@c-24-16-107-149.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 08:44:12-!- KingofCamelot [n=davidsan@ip98-182-16-78.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 08:48:49< cjhopman> hah, that is funny.
20090403 08:52:46-!- Crab_ [n=crab_@c.218.175.a530.sta.adsl.cyfra.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 08:53:22< cjhopman> I'd almost say to change the objective to something that gives a hint
20090403 08:54:05< cjhopman> maybe like, "Find a way underground to the Dwarven Kingdom"
20090403 08:54:31< cjhopman> kind of mirroring delfador's last line at the start
20090403 08:55:22-!- fabi [n=fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 09:08:20-!- zookeeper [n=l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20090403 09:13:23-!- Crab_ [n=crab_@c.218.175.a530.sta.adsl.cyfra.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
20090403 09:13:25-!- euschn [n=chatzill@turing.logic.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 09:13:33< euschn> good morning
20090403 09:14:12-!- nagbot [n=root@smtp.terraninfo.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 09:14:15< nagbot> Hi!
20090403 09:14:15< nagbot> Everyone who wants to participate in GSoC with Wesnoth:
20090403 09:14:18< nagbot> Register your proposal with Google
20090403 09:14:20< nagbot> The deadline is coming - application period closes at Apr 3rd, 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) 
20090403 09:14:23< nagbot> Everyone not enlisted in the google tracker at that time will have *no* chance to participate with Wesnoth as part of summer of code 2009, no matter how good your proposal in the wiki is or *whatever
20090403 09:14:27< nagbot> Only people listed there can be selected!
20090403 09:14:30< nagbot> Please submit patches so we can see your ideas in action. 
20090403 09:14:32< nagbot> Talk about your ideas on the IRC
20090403 09:14:52-!- nagbot [n=root@smtp.terraninfo.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20090403 09:22:23< corn> dfranke: did you check out my first patch?
20090403 09:22:42< corn> I should have the rest of the patch done tonight, and then for windows tomorrow or the day after
20090403 09:22:49< corn> still need to get a dev environment set up for it
20090403 09:26:21< dfranke> corn: yes.  I haven't tested it yet, but I read the patch and it looks solid.
20090403 09:26:54-!- euschn [n=chatzill@turing.logic.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Iceweasel 3.0.6/2009032803]"]
20090403 09:27:29-!- euschn [n=chatzill@tmp9.logic.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 09:35:21-!- martyfuhry [n=marty@ip-131-123-95-3.housing.res.kent.edu] has left #wesnoth-dev ["Ex-Chat"]
20090403 09:38:22-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 09:41:58< Espreon> Hello busfahrer.
20090403 09:48:08< CIA-30> soliton * r34427 /branches/1.6/src/multiplayer_ui.cpp: patch #1153: fix for bug #13302 - truncate chatlog to 256 messages instead of 1024 from cornmander (Gregory Shikhman)
20090403 09:48:30< CIA-30> soliton * r34428 /trunk/src/multiplayer_ui.cpp: patch #1153: fix for bug #13302 - truncate chatlog to 256 messages instead of 1024 from cornmander (Gregory Shikhman)
20090403 09:49:04< corn> woo
20090403 09:49:12< Espreon> Yay.
20090403 10:05:43-!- nerwa [n=nerwa@59.78.26.75] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 10:11:41-!- iyonius [n=iyo@a02-0829c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 10:15:34-!- oak_ [i=oakus@c02--112b.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 10:15:59< ilor> Soliton: I think it'd be better if the lobby didn't hang on large chatlogs, probably a good silent todo for the new lobby ;)
20090403 10:17:01< Soliton> ilor: certainly.
20090403 10:17:33< Soliton> i think 256 messages is quite reasonable but more would be nice.
20090403 10:18:44< Soliton> ilor: i've implemented /query adminmsg to send a message to all admins. can you make a nice client side alias for it? (/adminmsg or whatever)
20090403 10:19:12< Soliton> ilor: should also be done for 1.6.
20090403 10:19:37< ilor> Soliton: sure
20090403 10:21:30< ilor> Soliton: later today though, need to go to classes now
20090403 10:23:04-!- turin [n=turin@168.215.250.1] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090403 10:23:05< Soliton> anytime before 1.6.1 is ok. :-)
20090403 10:33:50-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit []
20090403 10:33:54< Ivanovic> esr: great, i really would love to see this stuff in
20090403 10:34:04< Ivanovic> esr: please also have a look at SoF
20090403 10:34:24< Ivanovic> in this campaign there are some comments regarding the "real" meaning of what the gryphon unit is saying
20090403 10:34:41< Ivanovic> those should also appear in the comment blocks (they don't appear there atm)
20090403 10:34:53< esr> Ivanovic: What "stuff", the wmlxgettext feature?  And what's up with SoF?
20090403 10:35:28< Ivanovic> [10:30:44] <esr> [04:37:11] Ivanovic: I think I'm going to add another feature to wnlxgettext - notes for translators, which can occur near a translatable string and get put in the .po file as comments near it.  (I'll use them, for example, to explain the dialect words and archaisms I like to use.) Do you have a preference about the source syntax for these?
20090403 10:35:36< Ivanovic> yes, i do read my backlog...
20090403 10:37:33< esr> So, d you have a preference about the source syntax for translators' notes?
20090403 10:37:47< Ivanovic> no
20090403 10:37:52< esr> OK.
20090403 10:37:59< esr> I'll design something.
20090403 10:38:10< Ivanovic> personally i would even be fine if everything in the [message] block would appear in the comment field
20090403 10:38:23< Ivanovic> as in: plain comments as they are used in wml, too
20090403 10:38:26< esr> Hmmm.
20090403 10:39:06< esr> That might be doable.  I'lll look into it.
20090403 10:40:00< esr> Of course my real goal here is to give the poor battered translators some hinyts about how to translate all the weird stuff I put in *my* prose...
20090403 10:40:26-!- ilor [n=user@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has quit []
20090403 10:40:57< esr> (I pity anyone who has to translate my writing; no joke.)
20090403 10:43:41< Ivanovic> and i think in a broader range
20090403 10:43:56< Ivanovic> since some content creators put some "why this here" into the message blocks
20090403 10:44:04-!- henning__ [n=jp0186@77-56-56-38.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 10:44:08< Ivanovic> this info might be valuable for translators, too
20090403 10:44:18< esr> Yes.
20090403 10:44:58-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.246.190] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 10:45:01< esr> Note, however, that I'm giving highrest priority to getting DM ready for mainlining just now.  You saw my mail on this?
20090403 10:45:19< Ivanovic> i saw the mail
20090403 10:45:25< Ivanovic> and sure: go on, get it ready
20090403 10:46:07< Ivanovic> though i will wait till some days after it is imported before i import the translation files
20090403 10:46:52< esr> fendrin did  good work on it while I was preoccupied with the 1.6 release prep and bug triage.  It's his doing that there was rather less work post-1,6 than I expected.
20090403 10:47:59< esr> He's a useful guy - won't lead a design, but an *invaluable* assistant.
20090403 10:49:40< esr> AnWe've made a good team through three campaigns now.
20090403 10:53:07-!- armando87 [n=dracula2@189.242.45.43] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 10:54:32< dfranke> esr.generateName('http://dfranke.us/needsaname.map')
20090403 10:54:53-!- YogiHH [i=c3f5f398@wesnoth/developer/yogihh] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 10:58:01< esr> dfranke: Looking...
20090403 10:58:25< dfranke> esr: It's an MP map, so no story context.
20090403 11:00:44< esr> dfranke: Oh, that one's *easy*.  It is : "Fire and Ice".
20090403 11:01:03< dfranke> so it shall be then :-)
20090403 11:01:28< dfranke> I couldn't decide what season I wanted it to be, so I went with all of them.
20090403 11:04:09< dfranke> but your title is nice and it will suffice.
20090403 11:04:45< dfranke> ...and I'm off to bed.
20090403 11:05:10< esr> You weren't around yet when my name-generator rep really got established.  Someone was wondering on IRC what to call the little mountain kingdom where TROW starts; I opened ny mouth and said (well, typed) "Stormvale" and everyone reacted like they'd gotten a jolt to the pleasure center.  It was entertaining.
20090403 11:06:45< esr> I didn't actually know what I was going to come out with before I said it.
20090403 11:06:47< dfranke> esr: I've made a game of playing through campaigns and picking out which dialogue is yours.
20090403 11:07:25< esr> If you think you can do it reliably I wwould be fascinated to know what your recognition rules are.
20090403 11:08:13< esr> (And yes, I recognized the quote.)
20090403 11:08:38-!- stikonas [n=stikonas@ctv-79-132-187-171.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 11:08:42< dfranke> esr: well, the deadest giveaway was the confrontation with the nemesis (was he named Iliah-Malal?) in DM, when I got to "name-gift".
20090403 11:09:09< armando87> hello Ivanovic, could you mark my account as a GSoC Student account, please?
20090403 11:09:44< Ivanovic> armando87: what is your forum account, i need the nickname
20090403 11:10:15< esr> dfranke: Yeah, that scene was me.  I was thinking Norse saga at the time.
20090403 11:10:21< dfranke> esr: my best heuristic is probably high density of Anglo-Saxon words versus Latinate ones.
20090403 11:10:47< esr> Youru mean I use more Anglo-Saxon?  Interesting.
20090403 11:11:01< armando87> armandonieto
20090403 11:12:15< Ivanovic> done
20090403 11:12:38< armando87> ok, thank you
20090403 11:14:03< dfranke> esr: for humans and dwarves, at least, yes.
20090403 11:14:14< dfranke> esr: your elvish prose might be more Latinate.
20090403 11:14:30< Dragonking> Hm... I think that making a acronym out of "Formula AI Library" is not really good idea.... ;)
20090403 11:14:39< dfranke> heh
20090403 11:14:40 * Dragonking is finising his application
20090403 11:14:41< euschn> haha
20090403 11:15:17< esr> That makes sense, yeah.  I made a cxonscious decvision a while back to give the dwarves Scottish accentsm, but actually *archaic* Scots, with words that are no longer in commo n use.
20090403 11:15:46< esr> I've been gradually editing mainline to do that.
20090403 11:16:11< dfranke> esr: yeah, it's another dead giveaway when the Scots is obviously authentic.
20090403 11:16:22< dfranke> esr: (and I've read enough Burns to be able to tell)
20090403 11:16:55< esr> Also, I tend to regress Elvish language almost back to Elizabethan English, especially when they[re being formal.
20090403 11:17:02 * cjhopman is also finishing his application
20090403 11:17:28-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 11:18:16< esr> I don't push human characters' usage back that far.
20090403 11:19:36< dfranke> anyway...
20090403 11:19:43< thespaceinvader> esr: i;m sorry if there was some miscommunication WRT the tHoT portraits - I did let you know they were getting reworked
20090403 11:19:48< dfranke> mv /proc/self ~/bed && sleep
20090403 11:20:21< esr> thespaceinvader: I thought you were doing that -- "DUHH" came as a surprise.
20090403 11:20:34< esr> dfranke: Sleep well.
20090403 11:20:51< thespaceinvader> esr: I was planning on it, but I'm so busy with universitty at the moment I wasn't gonna have the time for months
20090403 11:21:04< thespaceinvader> and DUHH has a brilliant style that I couldn't think how else to direct
20090403 11:21:32< thespaceinvader> I really didn't wanna lose such a good artist, and tHoT seemed like a great place for someone who liked drawing dwavres
20090403 11:21:43< esr> thespaceinvader: Did my comments seem unreasonable or hostile tpo you? I was a bit surprised at Kitty's reaction - I was trying to be helpful.
20090403 11:22:55< thespaceinvader> not really, no
20090403 11:23:02-!- zookeeper [n=l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 11:23:26< thespaceinvader> though many of them would have been better said a little earlier in the process
20090403 11:24:08< esr> Noted.  I guess I need to watch the forums more closely.
20090403 11:24:33< thespaceinvader> yeah, perhaps.
20090403 11:25:11< thespaceinvader> there's some stuff in there I agree with, particularly about Aiglondur - but it got to the stage where it was artist opinion vs critiquer opinion, and artist generally wins
20090403 11:25:19< thespaceinvader> you might get a better result, being the writer
20090403 11:26:18< thespaceinvader> the artist was initially just re-shading the pictures i'd done and reworking the horrible anatomy of the faces
20090403 11:26:42< thespaceinvader> but that limited him far too much to the dire design work I;d done on the armour and some terrible anatomy too
20090403 11:26:48< thespaceinvader> so it's better to add more freedom
20090403 11:27:29< thespaceinvader> oh, and regarding aiglondur's shield - I think the heraldry came about as Northern Alliance heraldry rather than specifically Dwarf heraldry...
20090403 11:30:12< zookeeper> urgh. how many times have you been in a "can copying be theft?" debate with the other person actually saying that they couldn't care less whether someone'd illegally copy something from them or whether someone'd actually steal the whole and all of the work?
20090403 11:30:45< thespaceinvader> often, apparently =P
20090403 11:31:36< zookeeper> nah, the first time for me
20090403 11:34:09< Dragonking> zookeeper: Hi, do you have some time?
20090403 11:34:30< zookeeper> Dragonking, depends how much ;) go ahead
20090403 11:34:41< Dragonking> May I query you? :)
20090403 11:34:47< zookeeper> of course
20090403 11:35:51-!- YogiHH [i=c3f5f398@wesnoth/developer/yogihh] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"]
20090403 11:37:25< corn> http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeProposal_corn#Timeline
20090403 11:37:34< corn> how does that timeline look guys?
20090403 11:37:44< corn> I need suggestions for what to do during june and july
20090403 11:50:13-!- nerwa [n=nerwa@59.78.26.75] has quit []
--- Log closed Fri Apr 03 11:53:13 2009
--- Log opened Fri Apr 03 11:55:57 2009
20090403 11:59:27-!- esr [n=chatzill@wesnoth/developer/esr] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 12:00:55-!- esr [n=chatzill@static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 12:03:01-!- armando87 [n=dracula2@189.242.45.43] has quit []
20090403 12:04:59-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit ["leaving"]
20090403 12:07:01-!- KnightR [n=anonymou@bb121-7-175-14.singnet.com.sg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 12:07:06< KnightR> hey folks
20090403 12:09:12-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.6.1 planned for Sunday | Summer of Code info: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 51 bugs, 231 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090403 12:12:13< Espreon> Hello KnightR.
20090403 12:13:21< Soliton> Rhonda: we've created a new mp server moderation channel so #wesnoth-mp can get logged. please join wesbot again.
20090403 12:13:49< Ivanovic> Soliton: Rhonda is on holidays till after eastern
20090403 12:16:02< Soliton> i know. i'm sure the highlights will be read whenever there is time.
20090403 12:16:21-!- xonev [n=chatzill@59.92.92.244] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 12:16:52-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 12:18:49-!- torghul [n=chatzill@78.189.21.148] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 12:41:07-!- euschn [n=chatzill@tmp9.logic.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090403 12:43:29-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 12:48:01-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
20090403 12:48:25-!- Turuk_ is now known as Turuk
20090403 12:56:51-!- euschn [n=chatzill@turing.logic.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 13:03:16-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 13:05:10-!- euschn_ [n=chatzill@tmp9.logic.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 13:05:47-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 13:07:04-!- euschn [n=chatzill@turing.logic.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Iceweasel 3.0.6/2009032803]"]
20090403 13:07:07-!- euschn_ is now known as euschn
20090403 13:08:06< Soliton> anyone know how to generate file descriptions in the default file listing from apache?
20090403 13:08:22< Soliton> or if there is a nice mod for that.
20090403 13:10:20< Soliton> ideally i guess i want to run a script or something on each file to generate the description.
20090403 13:10:33-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090403 13:17:07-!- didi [n=user@189-68-59-112.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 13:18:58< didi> loonycyborg: Hi. I've just asked a question at the #wesnoth and Ivanovic told me to ask it here to you. Hope you can help me. :-)
20090403 13:19:07< didi> I will reproduce it.
20090403 13:19:32< didi> Could you help me out, guys? I know you are using "scons" (and cmake and autotools, if that matters) to build your software. How do you make scons do some sort of magic, like autotools does, for a local compiled binary locate a local compiled shared library without the need to add manually a specific directory to the LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
20090403 13:21:16-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 13:26:19< esr> didi: I wrote the original scons recipe but loonycyborg has maintained it for a while now; you'd best ask him.
20090403 13:27:15-!- loonybot_ [n=loonybot@79.139.246.137] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 13:27:53-!- loonycyborg_ [n=sergey@79.139.246.137] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 13:28:18< didi> esr: Thank you.
20090403 13:28:23-!- Rhuvaen [n=chatzill@dslb-088-072-203-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 13:28:31-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
20090403 13:28:36-!- loonycyborg_ is now known as loonycyborg
20090403 13:28:41< Rhuvaen> hi
20090403 13:29:20< Rhuvaen> zookeeper: good thinking about OOS between 1.6 branch versions in DF, I think it could be an issue
20090403 13:29:58< didi> loonycyborg: Hi loonycyborg. Could you help me out?
20090403 13:31:12< Rhuvaen> zookeeper: hm, in MP all players use the host's version of the scenario, even if mainline, correct?
20090403 13:31:13< loonycyborg> didi: Your question was already answered on #scons
20090403 13:31:33< Rhuvaen> in that case there wouldn't be a problem
20090403 13:31:38< didi> loonycyborg: Oh. I did not see that. Going there. Thanks.
20090403 13:32:57< loonycyborg> Basically use RPATH.
20090403 13:33:26-!- molgrum [n=molgrum@c83-249-53-163.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 13:33:51-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@wesnoth/bot/loonybot] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090403 13:33:51-!- loonybot_ is now known as loonybot
20090403 13:34:56-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 13:35:02< Dragonking> Ivanovic: FInished application
20090403 13:36:11< Dragonking> I disappear now, bye
20090403 13:38:44-!- iyonius [n=iyo@a02-0829c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 13:39:21< Rhuvaen> Soliton: you suggested to add the Kaleh stun special to his normal attack
20090403 13:39:39< Rhuvaen> Soliton: what would you do about the slow repercussion?
20090403 13:40:01< Rhuvaen> if applied to his main attack, it would be a severe weakness overall
20090403 13:40:11< Soliton> remove it, it's useless.
20090403 13:40:23< Rhuvaen> that's what I wanted to hear
20090403 13:41:02-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090403 13:43:43< zookeeper> Rhuvaen, yes, correct
20090403 13:43:52< zookeeper> (about the OOS)
20090403 13:46:31< Rhuvaen> hm, the 1.7 branch demands a higher scons and lua version than available for my distro :(
20090403 13:46:39-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 13:47:17< loonycyborg> Rhuvaen: Which distro is that?
20090403 13:47:26< Rhuvaen> ubuntu 8.04
20090403 13:48:03-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 13:48:13< loonycyborg> Why not you upgrade to 8.10?
20090403 13:48:34< Rhuvaen> mostly because of the ruby version used in 8.10 per default
20090403 13:50:06< Rhuvaen> 8.10 uses ruby 1.8.7, which is breaking compatibility with the 1.8.6 version
20090403 13:50:50< Rhuvaen> I have too many projects depending on that
20090403 13:50:57< loonycyborg> Both scons and lua are easy to install locally.
20090403 13:51:26< Rhuvaen> yes, I think I'd rather do that
20090403 13:52:54-!- Rhuvaen [n=chatzill@dslb-088-072-203-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["later"]
20090403 13:57:22< zookeeper> Soliton, btw, one probably a good alternative for the dwarven doors' turn limit would be to remove the turn limit and just make sure the orc leaders can't all be beaten or run out of gold
20090403 13:57:44< zookeeper> (would require some map changes most likely, too)
20090403 13:58:24-!- Rhuvaen [n=chatzill@dslb-088-072-203-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 13:58:28< Soliton> would make it more realistic.
20090403 14:01:43< Turuk> Ivanovic, around?
20090403 14:01:48< Ivanovic> jupp
20090403 14:02:09< Turuk> I responded to carlestyle's PM, unless you did as well? I BCCed you
20090403 14:02:42-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 14:06:09< Ivanovic> i responded, too
20090403 14:09:32< Turuk> Ah ok
20090403 14:09:33< Rhuvaen> Soliton: should I remove the damage bonus from the stun AMLA? it's just as good as sword2 now, with an added special on top :/
20090403 14:09:53< Rhuvaen> I think it was there only so that the secondary attack would improve over time
20090403 14:10:46< Soliton> yes, no need for a damage bonus.
20090403 14:10:47-!- boucman [n=rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 14:11:16< boucman> hey all
20090403 14:11:18< Rhuvaen> I also think that sword2 should only be available once you reach level 2
20090403 14:11:25< Ivanovic> hi boucman
20090403 14:11:46< Rhuvaen> 11-4 melee is a bit strong for having *just* reached level 2
20090403 14:12:24 * Soliton shrugs. do as you wish.
20090403 14:16:11-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)]
20090403 14:18:41-!- didi [n=user@189-68-59-112.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"]
20090403 14:31:42-!- Morian__ is now known as Morian
20090403 14:33:30< Shadow_Master> boucman: what about avoiding to quote complete messages unless strictly necessary in the ML? :P
20090403 14:34:13< Shadow_Master> I thought: "ah, boucman must have lots of stuff to say", so I scrolled down and got disappointed when I stumbled upon the end of the message
20090403 14:34:34-!- torghul [n=chatzill@78.189.21.148] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]"]
20090403 14:35:58< boucman> Shadow_Master: sorry, I won't do it again :P
20090403 14:41:41-!- KingofCamelot [n=davidsan@ip98-182-16-78.sb.sd.cox.net] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 14:43:51-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has quit ["lectures"]
20090403 14:50:03< Turuk> Anyone like to engage in idle chatter?
20090403 14:50:20< Soliton> no.
20090403 14:53:00< Turuk> Always a fun one, always fun. Just a minor joke for those on # gsoc
20090403 14:56:11< CIA-30> rhuvaen * r34429 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/ (units/Kaleh.cfg utils/kaleh-abilities.cfg): 
20090403 14:56:11< CIA-30> 1. applying Kaleh stun ability to his normal attack instead of an additional melee attack for simplicity's sake. Removed slow repercussion in the process.
20090403 14:56:11< CIA-30> 2. postponing sword2 AMLA until level 2.
20090403 15:01:28-!- Crab_ [n=crab_@c.218.175.a530.sta.adsl.cyfra.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 15:01:32< Crab_> hi
20090403 15:02:47< boucman> hey
20090403 15:02:48-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit ["To err is human.. but to really foul things up requires a computer"]
20090403 15:05:10-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 15:05:46-!- grantwu [n=grant@westquad-150060.reshall.umich.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 15:06:24< grantwu> Hey guys, I'm still looking for feedback on my proposal
20090403 15:07:28< boucman> grantwu: the "last day swarm" has arived and we are a bit less reactive than we would like to...
20090403 15:07:34< boucman> but we're working on it :)
20090403 15:07:44< grantwu> okay, cool thanks
20090403 15:08:20-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit ["Power failu"]
20090403 15:08:31-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@c-68-49-10-243.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 15:09:25 * zookeeper wonders why all GSoC students make their wiki edits in a dozen tiny parts
20090403 15:09:51< grantwu> huh?  what do you mean
20090403 15:10:32-!- xonev [n=chatzill@59.92.92.244] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]"]
20090403 15:11:02-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit [Client Quit]
20090403 15:11:19< Crab_> zookeeper, maybe because pressing the "save page" button (when you have made something in the proposal better) is so pleasant :)
20090403 15:11:40< Shadow_Master> general wiki ettiquete: if you are going to make changes, use Show Preview if you can, before saving the changes
20090403 15:11:53< Shadow_Master> and also mark them as minor or not, as it applies
20090403 15:12:36< loonycyborg> How does one determine whether an edit is minor?
20090403 15:13:13< Shadow_Master> because it is minor.
20090403 15:13:25-!- alink [n=alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 15:13:26< Crab_> Shadow_Master: yes, I'm using *minor*, if it applies... I personally mark as minor when the changed part is "not worth reading anew"
20090403 15:13:27< grantwu> Hahaha, masterfully put
20090403 15:13:36< alink> hi
20090403 15:14:08< Shadow_Master> grantwu: master is my second name
20090403 15:14:09< Ivanovic> grantwu: expect us to have a pass over things this night
20090403 15:14:13< Shadow_Master> but that was obvious
20090403 15:14:15 * loonycyborg is confused even more
20090403 15:14:38< Ivanovic> atm there are 15 completely uncommented proposals in the tracker, this will take some significant time to look at
20090403 15:14:49< Ivanovic> so, just relax and wait for some comments
20090403 15:14:57< grantwu> all righty
20090403 15:15:03< Ivanovic> the comments will at least be made in the google tracker, so that they are not lost
20090403 15:15:22< loonycyborg> Maybe 'minor' is obvious, but all people have different notions of it :P
20090403 15:16:00< Shadow_Master> loonycyborg: is wesnoth.exe in files.w.o/hidden/win a debug build?
20090403 15:16:32< Shadow_Master> oh no. Wait, that's impossible. It'd be around 3 GB knowing the amount of implicit DLL dependencies :p
20090403 15:17:28-!- jmunro[a] is now known as jmunro
20090403 15:17:46< loonycyborg> Shadow_Master: Right.
20090403 15:18:03< Shadow_Master> is it -O1 ?
20090403 15:18:11< loonycyborg> -O2
20090403 15:19:08-!- torghul [n=chatzill@78.175.209.77] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 15:21:04-!- Rhuvaen [n=chatzill@dslb-088-072-203-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 15:23:07< boucman> loonycyborg: around ?
20090403 15:23:23< CIA-30> alink * r34430 /trunk/src/ (ai_move.cpp astarsearch.cpp pathfind.cpp pathfind.hpp): 
20090403 15:23:23< CIA-30> Fix a possibly serious breakage of the AI:
20090403 15:23:23< CIA-30> The pathfinding 'distance' used by the AI was changed to 'moves left at
20090403 15:23:23< CIA-30> destination or 0 if unreachable in 1 turn', thus breaking some target's rating.
20090403 15:23:23< CIA-30> This commit revert r32318 and r32310 which are not needed anymore.
20090403 15:23:24< CIA-30> I plan to clean this abuse of the name 'move_left' later, but first need to
20090403 15:23:28< CIA-30> test this simple fix for possible back-port to 1.6
20090403 15:23:52< alink> to all devs who worked on 1.6 AI bugs, maybe check if this ^ could explains some of them 
20090403 15:24:03< loonycyborg> boucman: yes
20090403 15:24:37< boucman> scons has stoped working for me :(
20090403 15:24:49< boucman> it doesn't find sdlNet anymore
20090403 15:24:59< alink> and to all users knowing well the behavior of the AI, check if how it changed ^, to see if we could safely back-port it to 1.6
20090403 15:25:06< boucman> (and I've just checked, I have the package installed dev version and all)
20090403 15:25:11< Soliton> --config=force
20090403 15:25:14< loonycyborg> boucman: Did you try --config=force?
20090403 15:25:19< boucman> not yet, will do
20090403 15:25:20< alink> s/if how/how/
20090403 15:25:52< boucman> fixed, thx a lot :)
20090403 15:31:38< CIA-30> soliton * r34431 /branches/1.6/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/01_The_Uprooting.cfg: fixed bug #13310: Misleading objective in The Uprooting (first Legend of Wesmere map)
20090403 15:32:02< CIA-30> soliton * r34432 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/01_The_Uprooting.cfg: fixed bug #13310: Misleading objective in The Uprooting (first Legend of Wesmere map)
20090403 15:33:25-!- anakayub [n=anakayub@115.132.47.198] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 15:38:30-!- elias [n=allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 15:41:30-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090403 15:42:32< Shadow_Master> boucman: 1 patch, and a forumer should be added to the Code&WMLContribs group immediately? (no particular ofrumer for this example)
20090403 15:42:47< Shadow_Master> (applied patch, of course...)
20090403 15:43:21< boucman> Shadow_Master: yes, but I tend to forget to do that :(
20090403 15:43:30< Shadow_Master> no worries.
20090403 15:44:09 * alink was even not aware of that :-/
20090403 15:44:30< CIA-30> boucman * r34433 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): advanced map feature naming in random-maps, patch by eushn
20090403 15:44:46< Shadow_Master> alink: yeah.
20090403 15:45:03< Shadow_Master> alink: I noticed because I handled adding sylecn to that group myself :)
20090403 15:45:11 * alink has applied a patch recently, checking if ....
20090403 15:45:19< alink> ok thanks :)
20090403 15:45:35< Shadow_Master> his default group willl be Translators still, however.
20090403 15:46:19< alink> I suppose he will contribute more as translator than as coder
20090403 15:46:29< Shadow_Master> yup.
20090403 15:48:57-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 15:49:02< boucman> Soliton: is patch 1153 (length of chatlog) done, or did you leave it opened on purpose ?
20090403 15:50:16< Soliton> done.
20090403 15:50:40< boucman> k, thx
20090403 15:51:03< alink> mmh we don't wait release (as for bug) for closing patch? then i l close 
20090403 15:51:11< alink> * need to close one too
20090403 15:51:17< Shadow_Master> I guess he's talking about marking it as "fixed"?
20090403 15:51:40< boucman> alink: we close at release
20090403 15:51:47< alink> Shadow_Master: indeed
20090403 15:51:48< boucman> but we mark as done whenever the patch is commited
20090403 15:51:59< boucman> Shadow_Master: fixed is only for bugs
20090403 15:52:04< boucman> patches are marked as done :P
20090403 15:52:08< alink> boucman: ok, that was done
20090403 15:52:15< Shadow_Master> fixed == done
20090403 15:52:39< Shadow_Master> done == fixed , since most patches fix lcks / bugs
20090403 15:52:59< alink> (the good thing of receiving the bugs-ml is that you can easily check recent activity )
20090403 15:58:35-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 16:00:22-!- grantwu [n=grant@westquad-150060.reshall.umich.edu] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 16:03:26-!- csaunders [n=chris@216.239.82.147] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 16:04:11< Shadow_Master> alink: and receive 1 email every 2 hours? :P
20090403 16:04:33< Shadow_Master> or what about a release, and all bugs going Fixed-Closed Fixed-Closed Fixed-Closed..
20090403 16:04:49< alink> Shadow_Master: all directly archived, only new bugs go in my inbox
20090403 16:05:11< alink> (or bug that i personally follow)
20090403 16:06:23< alink> but these days there is more new bugs indeed, the 1.6 release i guess
20090403 16:07:35< euschn> boucman: thanks for your comment on the patch - it should be doable to add the features you suggested, I probably just wont make it today or tommorow - I have to catch up on some non-wesnoth stuff I neglected in the past week
20090403 16:08:32< boucman> euschn: no pressure...
20090403 16:08:41< alink> Shadow_Master: only 2231 bug-ml mails since i joined :)
20090403 16:09:09< alink> and 17147 commits mail
20090403 16:09:44< Crab_> alink: yes, you abused that move_left name ... so, it is now 'the total cost to get to the destination or getNoPathValue() if it is impossible to get there' ?
20090403 16:09:51< alink> ah correction 2231 "conversations" in gmail, not sure how it count individual mail 
20090403 16:10:18< boucman> zookeeper: around ?
20090403 16:10:29< alink> Crab_: note that i didn't abused it myself, I just restored the old abuse ;)
20090403 16:10:36< alink> Crab_: and yes
20090403 16:11:01< alink> Crab_: the AI always assumed that
20090403 16:12:20< alink> when using the A* pathfinding algorithm. The DFS pathfinding 'paths' use move_left correctly I think
20090403 16:15:28< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34434 /website/start/1.6/ (19 files in 2 dirs): added Indonesian announcement translation
20090403 16:16:07-!- ilor [n=user@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 16:16:49< alink> I was always annoyed by that abuse, but even if i often improved the pathfinding, i was always careful to avoid touching the AI, thus preventing me to fully clean this mess
20090403 16:17:18< zookeeper> boucman, yes
20090403 16:17:21< Crab_> alink: but AI sometimes tries to do things 'u_it->second.set_movement(rt->second.move_left);'  , thus, assuming that move_left is 'moves left'
20090403 16:17:48< zookeeper> boucman, btw, leaders still change facing when recruiting due to the recruiting anims, which makes them flip around in a glitchy-looking manner
20090403 16:17:57< Crab_> and sometimes it uses it as a 'cost to get there', yes )
20090403 16:18:33-!- Velory [n=GProcess@85.104.145.121] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 16:18:38< Ivanovic> Crab_: have i mentioned that this sounds like an ugly mess to me?
20090403 16:18:39< Ivanovic> ;)
20090403 16:18:45< Velory> Hi everyone
20090403 16:18:49< alink> Crab_: I saw that, but I checked it uses the 'paths' for the first cases, which has correct move_left
20090403 16:19:03< alink> or at least is not affected by my change :)
20090403 16:19:07< boucman> zookeeper: could you have a lookat patch 1151 and related bug 13301 ? I think it's simpler for you to fix than refining the patch to commit level quality...
20090403 16:19:19< euschn> hey Velory
20090403 16:19:24< Velory> gey euschn
20090403 16:19:29< Velory> s/gey/hey
20090403 16:19:39< boucman> zookeeper: about leaders, yes, but if we want to have the leader going into the hex wher recruiting takes place, we need the leader to go around
20090403 16:19:40< Crab_> alink: yes, it double-checks in a few places :) for example, formula ai likes to set moves left to 0 after moving a unit, just in case.
20090403 16:20:28 * boucman smells a mess crying for a cleanup
20090403 16:20:28-!- oak_ [i=oakus@c02--112b.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090403 16:20:30< alink> Crab_: I think i even see the AI set it to -1 to indicate special move somewhere
20090403 16:20:45< zookeeper> boucman, sure, i'll apply that..
20090403 16:20:58< Ivanovic> boucman: just hold your nose closed and it might work a little longer
20090403 16:21:00< Ivanovic> ;)
20090403 16:21:13< Crab_> alink, so, this looks like a case of 'it is already  broken too much, to notice such subtle changes' )
20090403 16:21:49< boucman> Crab_: hehe
20090403 16:22:07< alink> Crab_: not really, even the use of move_left is messy, it worked fine in 1.4
20090403 16:22:28< ilor> boucman: hi, I saw your comment on my gsoc application, do you want my reply somewhere in particular or can I just fire away here?
20090403 16:22:44< boucman> depends :)
20090403 16:23:01< boucman> if you just want to discuss to "pick my brain" that's perfectly fine
20090403 16:23:02< alink> but the lack of doc, caused some bad change in 1.5, and possibly introduced one the AI bugs we have in 1.6
20090403 16:23:18< boucman> if you think your comment would be worth reading for all mentors, you should comment on google application
20090403 16:23:34< ilor> well I plan to update my proposal in the wiki anyway
20090403 16:24:05-!- gabm [n=gabriel@modemcable188.10-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 16:24:22< Crab_> alink: well, IMO, it's better to rename move_left to something more representative... 'start fixing from the roots', sort of.
20090403 16:24:54< boucman> keep the old one around, move all users to the new one after checking, remove the old one
20090403 16:24:59< alink> Crab_: fully agree, but this change is for testing before porting it to 1.6
20090403 16:25:40< alink> (as i mentioned in my commit message)
20090403 16:25:53< ilor> so, regarding the optional rooms, I got the idea tha it might be useful to disallow user-made rooms if we decide we don't want it, and only keep a predefined list of rooms (or only allow mods to create rooms or something)
20090403 16:25:53< Crab_> alink: ok ) better to play-test, then. Renaming (if done by hand) would allow to double-check all usages, though.
20090403 16:25:54< boucman> ilor: ok, I'm ready if you want
20090403 16:26:05< CIA-30> zookeeper * r34435 /trunk/data/campaigns/tutorial/scenarios/2_Tutorial.cfg: Applied patch #1151. There might be other similar long strings to split left.
20090403 16:26:05< boucman> ok
20090403 16:26:35< gabm> Hello guys, I'm a late candidate for your Summer of Code
20090403 16:26:45< ilor> also my take on the lobby rooms system is that we should have rooms because I don't see another way of managing a situation when people are talking on the lobby in several languages at once
20090403 16:26:48< alink> Crab_: are you up to the task ? Need some knowledge of the AI code
20090403 16:26:51< boucman> hello gabm, see link in topic
20090403 16:27:13< gabm> I think I read those pages already
20090403 16:27:24< boucman> ok, did you submit a proposal to google yet ?
20090403 16:27:44< boucman> you want me to add you to the SoC group on our forum ? (what's your forum name ?)
20090403 16:27:50< gabm> Not yet. But the deadline is in a few hours, I know
20090403 16:27:51< Crab_> alink: yes
20090403 16:28:04< gabm> My forum and gna nick: gabba
20090403 16:28:10< ilor> making lobby be mandatory (so a player can join and quit other rooms but is always in the lobby) might help slleviate the community fragmening some people are afraid of
20090403 16:28:10< boucman> adding you
20090403 16:28:18< boucman> anybody else, while I'm at it ?
20090403 16:28:46< gabm> Thanks. I know you want to get to know people, but is it ok if I first submit the proposal, then hang around in the following days?
20090403 16:28:50< Crab_> alink: it correlates nicely with my GSoC plans to cleanup everything in there.
20090403 16:29:09< boucman> gabm: sure, no problem
20090403 16:29:27< alink> Crab_: ok good, indeed that's a nice little project for cleaning the 1.7 AI code
20090403 16:29:45< gabm> good. I'll finalize the proposal then - I'd like to work on the savegame reorganisation
20090403 16:30:06< alink> Crab_: btw, i also think to remove move_left from route and recalculate it when needed
20090403 16:31:10< alink> Crab_: I am currently cleaning move_left in route_turns_to_complete() for a possible use like that
20090403 16:31:20-!- gabm [n=gabriel@modemcable188.10-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 16:32:06< Crab_> alink: 'recalculate as needed' to avoid 'stale cache' issues ?
20090403 16:32:17< alink> but this will be slightly less efficient if some info like zoc are already known, i need to check that
20090403 16:32:26< alink> 'stale cache' ?
20090403 16:32:51< alink> ah ok
20090403 16:33:23< Crab_> (if units A gets the route, then a unit B moves, then the previous route of A may be stale and need recalculating)
20090403 16:33:34-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 16:33:55< alink> well didn't thought about thatn, but indeed it may also help that ;)
20090403 16:34:42< Ivanovic> ilor: you know what, this "you are always in the main lobby" was part of what i suggested at fosdem 2008
20090403 16:34:50< Ivanovic> we talked about a possible mp lobby reorg there, too
20090403 16:35:01< Ivanovic> some stuff is on the ML in the fosdem followup
20090403 16:35:19< ilor> Ivanovic: you must have psychically engraved that thought at the fosdem grounds
20090403 16:35:23< ilor> ;)
20090403 16:35:49< alink> Crab_: mmh i wonder, I bet it can already happen with teleport ability which need empty village to work, thus need a correct order for moves
20090403 16:36:57-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
20090403 16:37:06-!- Turuk_ is now known as Turuk
20090403 16:37:15< Crab_> alink: formula_ai deals with that by working on a "move map" level, caching that move map, and invalidating it after a move
20090403 16:38:10< Crab_> alink: default_ai, on the other hand, works more low-level...
20090403 16:38:28< alink> Crab_: ah good, in fact the c++ AI maybe also do that, as I said i am not very familiar with the details of the AI
20090403 16:39:52< zookeeper> refresh my memory, what was the cause of those annoying "Sorry but you cannot use search at this time. Please try again in a few minutes." pages when attempting to forum search? it's really annoying even if it goes away after a couple of tries.
20090403 16:45:12-!- euschn [n=chatzill@tmp9.logic.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090403 16:45:14< Crab_> alink: default AI explicitly recalculates possbile moves before moving a unit.
20090403 16:46:09< alink> Crab_: good, thanks to have checked that. And indeed make sense
20090403 16:46:21< Turuk> zookeeper: the server running forum database is just overloaded by too many requests at same time(probably too many user).
20090403 16:46:31< Turuk> Also, the flood interval is set at 5 seconds I believe
20090403 16:47:25-!- ikarius [n=ross@216.27.182.3] has quit []
20090403 16:47:36< Turuk> Er, 10 seconds
20090403 16:50:22< Crab_> alink:  but still, interaction between AI and game is error-prone. If AI tries to do something stupid, it may mess things up (infinite loop or segfault). i've recently fixed a few bugs of that kind and there's probably many more. The Ai shouldn't be allowed to set unit remaining movement, for example. The player, for instance, cannot do that, why should AI ? The AI should *delegate* any game-changing requests to the engine and get some
20090403 16:50:29-!- voris [n=voris@c-24-16-107-149.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 16:50:59< alink> to the engine and get some ...
20090403 16:50:59-!- iyonius [n=iyo@a02-0829c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit ["Leaving."]
20090403 16:51:18< Crab_> )
20090403 16:51:22< alink> but I agree, and WML authors will probably agree too
20090403 16:52:41< Crab_> and when doing formula_ai scripting, it is even easier to order the ai to make an impossible move (into an occupied square, for example) - especially if you are an scenario editor, not a dev.
20090403 16:52:59< alink> Crab_: a possible change could be to use 'status' and let the AI store his custom move_left there. IIRC the AI already use a trick like that for 'guardian' or something
20090403 16:53:23< alink> Crab_: impossible move are also bad for network validation
20090403 16:55:13< alink> correction : it uses   set_state("not_moved","yes");
20090403 16:55:27< Crab_> alink:yes, i've seen it.
20090403 16:56:04< alink> which is also bad, because the engine use "not_moved" for the rest rule
20090403 16:57:07-!- stikonas [n=stikonas@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 16:57:10< alink> but i suppose the AI could use set_state("AI_move_left", "-1") or something
20090403 16:58:12< Crab_> alink: yes, or we could allow the AI to attach separate notes to units (not using set_state), because there's a huge possibility for bugs without the proper separation of authority regarding the game state
20090403 16:58:49< alink> Crab_: indeed that's cleaner
20090403 17:00:09< alink> but maybe also need to add a way to manipulate it with WML, which the 'state' trick already allow
20090403 17:00:50< alink> anyways, that start to be AI feature, better discuss that with AI experts ;-)
20090403 17:01:05< Crab_> :)
20090403 17:02:24-!- nagbot [n=root@62.149.16.48] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 17:02:27< nagbot> Hi!
20090403 17:02:29< nagbot> Attention all potential GSoC students:
20090403 17:02:32< nagbot> Register your proposal with Google
20090403 17:02:34< nagbot> The deadline for the application is friday, april 3rd, at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST)
20090403 17:02:37< nagbot> Everyone not enlisted in the google tracker at that time will have *no* chance to participate with Wesnoth as part of summer of code 2009, no matter how good your proposal in the wiki is or *whatever*
20090403 17:02:41< nagbot> You have been warned.
20090403 17:02:44< nagbot> Submit patches for review, so we'll see how you work.
20090403 17:02:46< nagbot> Talk about your ideas on the IRC
20090403 17:02:53-!- nagbot [n=root@62.149.16.48] has quit [Client Quit]
20090403 17:02:55< boucman> Crab_: we can already add variables to units in AI, couldn't we generalize the mechanism (via read-only variables, engine set variables, combination of both) ?
20090403 17:04:55< Crab_> boucman: 'setting ai vars on units'  is related to a bigger problem of ai_parameters (ai parameters, ai memory, global ai parameters, effective ai parameters, etc). We just need to discuss "how that all should look like" and develop a general solution.
20090403 17:05:57< boucman> agreed
20090403 17:06:10< boucman> cool subject for a GSoC wik page, btw :P
20090403 17:06:25< Crab_> boucman: it's mostly there... and there'll be more )
20090403 17:06:29< boucman> :)
20090403 17:07:24< Crab_> boucman; there's the AI, there's the game state (which the AI shouldn't be able to modify except by explicit calls to the game interface API), and there's some state which the Ai can modify - ai parameters, ai memory, ai notes, and such. there's distinct set of requirements for them (for example, AI may need *very fast but transient* notes, and it may need *slower but persistent (between saves)* notes)
20090403 17:08:40< Crab_> boucman: current implementation doesn't separate game state and ai state cleanly, this is one of the things that I intend to change.
20090403 17:14:09< CIA-30> alink * r34436 /trunk/src/ (pathfind.cpp pathfind.hpp): 
20090403 17:14:09< CIA-30> Small cleaning of a function for possible future use.
20090403 17:14:09< CIA-30> No effect, fixed value is not used.
20090403 17:15:35< alink> ^ probably only for UI or move validation, currently do too much for heavy AI thinking
20090403 17:18:11-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@FUSE-WS1-208-102-202-188.fuse.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 17:18:18-!- chains [n=Rylar@adsl-69-209-77-5.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 17:18:38 * alink is afk
20090403 17:22:39-!- ikarius [n=ross@smtp.gridironsystems.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 17:24:51-!- Blueblaze [n=nick@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 17:26:20-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Success]
20090403 17:32:06-!- turin [n=turin@168.215.250.1] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 17:32:20-!- YogiHH [i=c3f5f398@wesnoth/developer/yogihh] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 17:36:55-!- grantwu [n=zenneth@westquad-150061.reshall.umich.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 17:39:55-!- Polarina [n=polarina@wesnoth/translator/Polarina] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 17:40:09< KnightR> hey guys
20090403 17:40:21< Polarina> Hello.
20090403 17:40:31< KnightR> i'd like to ask if has anyone done any proper benchmarking to see how much overhead std::map really takes up?
20090403 17:40:48< Polarina> std::map has the running time of O(n log n).
20090403 17:41:11< KnightR> sorry, should be a bit clearer... i meant the memory overhead
20090403 17:41:36< Polarina> std::map has the memory usage of O(n)
20090403 17:42:15< Crab_> KnightR: Sirp has written on his blog about that. have you read that ?
20090403 17:42:31< Crab_> ( http://dave.wesnoth.org/?p=7 )
20090403 17:42:34< KnightR> thanks Polarina.
20090403 17:42:42< KnightR> Crab_: yes I have.
20090403 17:43:09< Polarina> If the order of elements are not important, use std::unordered_map, which has the average running time of O(1) and worst case time O(n)
20090403 17:43:43-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Success]
20090403 17:43:58-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 17:44:49< Crab_> KnightR: you may also want to read about various implementation of text storage in databases. for example, about TOAST in postgresql
20090403 17:44:50< KnightR> Crab_: but i don't think Sirp gave a breakdown on the exact overhead that's taken up by WML
20090403 17:45:12< chains> you know, when the AI is put in a situation where all out attack is the best strategy, it plays remarkably well. 
20090403 17:45:16< KnightR> Crab_: ah I'll check that out. thanks :)
20090403 17:45:38< KnightR> Polarina: i think the order is important because it reduces on query time
20090403 17:45:41< Crab_> KnightR: they essentialy have the same problem - store a large number of unknown-size strings..
20090403 17:46:00< Polarina> KnightR: No, it does not cause an overhead not having them ordered.
20090403 17:46:12< KnightR> Crab_: but is std::map more efficient if we were to just use an integer value for the key instead of using an std::string?
20090403 17:46:36< Crab_> KnightR: preallocating a bunch of fixed-size buffers is even more efficient :)
20090403 17:46:38< KnightR> at the moment, i believe a significant overhead is used as all the keys are stored as std::strings
20090403 17:46:43< YogiHH> Velory: ping
20090403 17:46:57< Polarina> KnightR: std::map calls the comparison overload of std::string for each iteration.
20090403 17:47:13< KnightR> Crab_: hmm how would that help?
20090403 17:47:36< Polarina> KnightR: So, yes, it's slower. But for std::unordered, it's the same.
20090403 17:48:26< Crab_> KnightR: because when you have a big map with string keys, it requires to allocate a lot of small memory areas to store those strings. if you store them in "one large table", you win on memory usage
20090403 17:48:28< ilor> the usual hashmaps are quite a bit too memory hungry to use as a replacement for maps inslide configs
20090403 17:49:48< Velory> YogiHH: 
20090403 17:50:00< Velory> YogiHH:  yes?
20090403 17:50:00< KnightR> Polarina: I see... so in what cases would you use, say std::set over the unordered version?
20090403 17:50:21< YogiHH> Velory: A few comments on your GSoC proposal
20090403 17:50:25< Polarina> KnightR: I would use std::unordered_set where the order of elements don't matter.
20090403 17:50:45< Velory> ok im looking
20090403 17:51:00< Crab_> KnightR: that is the reason for fixed-length text fields in some of the early SQL databases - the developer had to select 'how much space I need in that table" - as in "name VARCHAR(40)", to make it possible for the DB to preallocate efficiently
20090403 17:51:05< YogiHH> Velory: I'd revise the timeline and start with the Debugger: You should gain profit from that tool as early as possible
20090403 17:51:19< Velory> hmm
20090403 17:51:21< KnightR> Polarina: unordered are still placed in binary trees and guarantees the same query time as the ordered version correct?
20090403 17:51:35< Polarina> KnightR: No, unordered versions use a hash table.
20090403 17:51:51< Polarina> KnightR: Thus have an average running time of O(1).
20090403 17:52:00< Velory> YogiHH:  hmm yes maybe will good
20090403 17:52:01< KnightR> Crab_: I see... If you saw my forum post, silene brought up the idea of using the address value as the key but I'm thinking that might cause problems if the addresses happen to change
20090403 17:52:19< YogiHH> Velory: Trust me, if you do that at the end, as soon as you start working with it you will curse yourself for not having it used earlier :-)
20090403 17:52:43< Velory> YogiHH:  hehe :) yes it seems i understand what u mean :)
20090403 17:52:46< KnightR> Polarina: ahhh I see... so it is highly possible to use something like std::unordered_set< pair< hash_key, t_string > > right?
20090403 17:52:48< Crab_> KnightR, you can add a lookup table into the mix
20090403 17:53:02< Velory> YogiHH:  if u will code a tool why u not work with that tool u saying right?
20090403 17:53:06< Velory>  YogiHH :)
20090403 17:53:15< YogiHH> yes
20090403 17:53:17< Polarina> KnightR: Yes, but I would use a std::unordered_map instead.
20090403 17:53:31< Crab_> KnightR: std::string key  -> get corresponding row number(s) from this key -> get corresponding row(s) from storage table.
20090403 17:53:43< Velory> YogiHH:  ok i will revise my timeline :)
20090403 17:53:44< Polarina> KnightR: But all the unordered versions behave in similar manner.
20090403 17:53:47< Crab_> KnightR: but you should really see how-they-do-it in SQL db's.
20090403 17:53:56< Velory> YogiHH:  thanks about that and mordante offered me wesnoth tool for GUI
20090403 17:54:08< Velory> YogiHH:  any other comments ? i must go out about 2,5 hour
20090403 17:54:21< KnightR> Polarina: ok so if the unordered version is used, how is the hash computed?
20090403 17:54:26< YogiHH> Velory: The second is about your squad ideas. I wouldn't make squads of a fixed size. Squads are mainly location bound, and it might be reasonable to have a squad of 10 units
20090403 17:54:44< Polarina> KnightR: All std containers provide a default hash function.
20090403 17:54:52< YogiHH> Velory: Where somewhere else a squad of 3 units might be better
20090403 17:55:10< Velory> YogiHH:  i see
20090403 17:55:42< Velory> YogiHH: yes i knew this problem i thought about that earlier
20090403 17:55:42< YogiHH> Velory: Another idea would be to make the size of the squad dependent on the enemy forces you are facing at that specific location
20090403 17:55:43< KnightR> Crab_: ok i'll check it out. :)
20090403 17:56:02< Velory> YogiHH:  hmm
20090403 17:56:15< YogiHH> Velory: Although that is more for 1v1 with equal starting conditions, probably
20090403 17:56:16< Velory> YogiHH:  maybe division in-game will good ?
20090403 17:56:34< YogiHH> Velory: division in-game?
20090403 17:56:48< Velory> YogiHH:  we can divide some number maybe
20090403 17:56:59< Velory> YogiHH:  take sum and divide dunno
20090403 17:57:18< YogiHH> of course we can, but why would we want to do that? What is the purpose?
20090403 17:58:18< Velory> YogiHH:  for finding squad number but it will problematic too
20090403 17:58:29< Velory> YogiHH:  i took back my offer :)
20090403 17:58:36< YogiHH> Velory: ah, ok :-)
20090403 17:58:55< Polarina> KnightR: However, to use the unordered containers, you will have to pass -std=c++0x to g++.
20090403 17:58:59< YogiHH> Velory: That's mainly it for the moment. I have to go now, just wanted to let you know this
20090403 17:59:15< Velory> YogiHH:  starting conditions may problematic right but ai can decide division squads at near locations 
20090403 17:59:18< Velory> YogiHH:  ok me too
20090403 17:59:35< Velory> YogiHH:  we can talk later,Really thanks for comments good butew
20090403 17:59:41< Velory> s/butew/bye
20090403 18:00:05 * Velory afk about 2 hour
20090403 18:03:46-!- noy [n=Noy@75.157.52.251] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 18:08:36-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 18:09:01-!- YogiHH [i=c3f5f398@wesnoth/developer/yogihh] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 18:09:12-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.6.1 planned for Sunday | Summer of Code info: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 51 bugs, 231 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090403 18:10:53< KnightR> Polarina: yup i'm familiar with tr1 :) thanks!
20090403 18:11:41< Polarina> KnightR: My pleasure.
20090403 18:16:36-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090403 18:16:41-!- grantwu [n=zenneth@westquad-150061.reshall.umich.edu] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 18:17:56-!- oak_ [i=oakus@c02--112b.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 18:20:45-!- grantwu [n=zenneth@westquad-150061.reshall.umich.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 18:20:58-!- torghul [n=chatzill@78.175.209.77] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]"]
20090403 18:37:23-!- fendrin [n=fabi@g230227026.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 18:43:57 * Polarina resumes working.
20090403 18:44:18-!- grantwu [n=zenneth@westquad-150061.reshall.umich.edu] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 18:52:19-!- torghul [n=chatzill@78.175.15.171] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 18:52:43< corn> hey guys
20090403 18:52:52< boucman> hey corn
20090403 18:53:04< corn> as part of my gsoc proposal I want to collect data on what tiles the most kills take place in on a map
20090403 18:53:08< corn> does that sound cool?
20090403 18:53:19< boucman> hmm
20090403 18:53:32< corn> so a content designer can see what the 'hottest' part of the map is
20090403 18:53:41< corn> and it may not necessarily be where they expected
20090403 18:53:42< boucman> that's a question nobody asked before, 
20090403 18:53:55< boucman> is that a stat server proposal ?
20090403 18:53:58< corn> yes
20090403 18:54:06< boucman> that's an interesting and novel idea
20090403 18:54:14< corn> cool
20090403 18:54:21< boucman> (which is good, so far I have seen few novel ideas for the stat server)
20090403 18:54:43< corn> well if you saw many novel ideas then perhaps they wouldn't be so novel :p
20090403 18:54:48< Crab_> corn: yes, that sounds cool )
20090403 18:55:21< corn> also I want to extend stat collection to MP
20090403 18:55:38< corn> shouldn't be that hard but you need to worry about sending duplicate data
20090403 18:55:45< boucman> that might be a bit... controversial
20090403 18:55:49< corn> why?
20090403 18:56:06< boucman> people tend to react stongly to anything that touch anonimity...
20090403 18:56:21< boucman> and making sure everybody "opted in" in an MP map is a bit tricky
20090403 18:57:03< corn> hm. what kind of identifying information is being collected
20090403 18:57:18< corn> aside from the IP of the sender
20090403 18:57:41< ilor> corn: if you intend to store that then it's already very controversial
20090403 18:57:53< boucman> corn: I'm not worried about it myself, but I warn you it will be controversial ;)
20090403 18:58:15-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 18:58:16< corn> no, I don't intend to store the IP
20090403 18:58:18-!- anakayub [n=anakayub@115.132.47.198] has quit ["Later"]
20090403 18:58:24< ilor> I'd stay with only collecting agregate data just to be sure nobody will rage
20090403 18:58:27< corn> but that is the only _potential_ source of identifying information
20090403 18:58:28< corn> ok
20090403 18:58:44< csaunders> corn: there are other ways of identifying people
20090403 18:58:46< ilor> and also I like the idea of killmaps a lot ;D
20090403 18:59:01< corn> ok
20090403 18:59:04< csaunders> corn: also, killmaps sound kinda neat :P
20090403 18:59:13< corn> does anyone play tf2?
20090403 18:59:26< csaunders> used to... don't have time anymore :(
20090403 18:59:28< corn> they were the first to implement that idea, I thought it was pretty cool when I saw it :p
20090403 19:00:16< corn> another idea I had in mind was to allow users to subscribe to reports
20090403 19:00:26< corn> so they would get emails showing a graph every day
20090403 19:00:28< csaunders> does the game report where on a map a unit died?
20090403 19:00:39< corn> don't think so at the moment
20090403 19:00:49< alink> about finding the 'hottest' part of the map, maybe the AI could use that. The AI currently evaluate frequency of terrain (with more weight for center of map). With such map, she could use smarter weight for that 
20090403 19:01:02-!- stikonas [n=stikonas@ctv-79-132-187-171.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 19:01:03< corn> that's a very interesting idea
20090403 19:01:09< alink> (frequency of terrain for recruit decision)
20090403 19:01:17< Crab_> alink: yes, it can use that, you are right.
20090403 19:01:22< corn> so the AI would move to capture the hotter areas?
20090403 19:01:23< csaunders> if anything, it could be much more useful for the AI.  Which would be nice
20090403 19:01:29< boucman> we could export that data from the stat server and then reimport it into the AI
20090403 19:02:00< alink> corn: i was more thinking about recruit units good in these hot areas
20090403 19:02:06< corn> ah
20090403 19:02:13< Crab_> alink: and the AI is 'she' :) ?
20090403 19:02:46< Polarina> Crab_: In Icelandic, she is.
20090403 19:02:52< alink> Crab_: hum yes, i often see 'she' for AI, not sure why
20090403 19:02:59< Crab_> alink: cool )
20090403 19:03:14< alink> Crab_: plus, in french, AI is a female word
20090403 19:03:23< alink> as intelligence 
20090403 19:03:25< corn> nothing like a little anthropomorphism
20090403 19:04:10-!- crimson_p [n=irchon@64.201.60.216] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 19:04:19< Crab_> and the 'units that humans recruit vs a specific faction' is also interesting info for the AI
20090403 19:06:08< corn> so this is probably a feature worth implementing first
20090403 19:06:21-!- crimson_p [n=irchon@64.201.60.216] has quit [Client Quit]
20090403 19:08:07-!- happygrue [n=chatzill@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 19:15:48-!- mordante [n=mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 19:16:05< mordante> hi
20090403 19:16:16< alink> hi mordante
20090403 19:16:33< Crab_> hi mordante
20090403 19:16:36< mordante> hi alink 
20090403 19:16:38< mordante> hi Crab_ 
20090403 19:17:09< csaunders> hey corn, how much of your implementation do you have done so far?
20090403 19:18:40< noy> corn: I'd suggest not including MP in stats collection areas, at least at first
20090403 19:18:42< alink> Crab_: mmh i don't find any links about using 'she' for an AI, so let's say that I was speaking about the case where the leader unit of the AI is a female unit ;-)
20090403 19:19:07-!- nerwa [n=nerwa@59.78.26.75] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 19:19:32< Crab_> alink: all ok. Maybe, if we someday create a brand new AI for wesnoth, we'll give her a female name ) 
20090403 19:22:04< csaunders> Crab_: please don't call her cortana :P
20090403 19:22:41-!- nerwa [n=nerwa@59.78.26.75] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 19:22:53< Crab_> csaunders, no, I haven't played Halo )
20090403 19:23:20-!- thaer89 [n=thaer89@77.245.11.161] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 19:23:25< thaer89> hi
20090403 19:23:29 * alink is reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_computers
20090403 19:23:29< thaer89> how r u
20090403 19:23:40< thaer89> hi
20090403 19:23:46< csaunders> you could call it HAL
20090403 19:23:54< alink> hi thaer89
20090403 19:23:58< csaunders> or how about... femputor?
20090403 19:24:32< thaer89> so this irc for Soc for wensoth
20090403 19:24:44< thaer89> there is alot of people 
20090403 19:25:10< alink> maybe write the AI first, and then ask him/her what gender he/she prefer ? 
20090403 19:25:16< csaunders> thaer89: its the gsoc deadline :P
20090403 19:25:57< csaunders> alink: AI in Wesnoth that would passing the Turing test?  That would be great :P
20090403 19:27:08< mordante> thaer89, it's the wesnoth development channel, which includes gsoc discussions
20090403 19:27:23< alink> csaunders: yeah, I wonder if the current AI interface allow it to speak
20090403 19:28:04< mordante> Polarina, I've never heard of std::unordered_map :-P
20090403 19:30:02< thaer89> i know is today deadline
20090403 19:30:15< thaer89> but not proplem 
20090403 19:31:29< Crab_> alink: well, AI can cause animations to appear, so I'd guess 'speaking' can be done ) for example, it can be, with some hacking, made to laugh when all attacks of some human unit with 4+ attacks miss  )
20090403 19:32:17< alink> Crab_: lol that's nice too, by i was just thinking about simple chat ;)
20090403 19:32:24< alink> s/by/but
20090403 19:34:40< Crab_> alink, well, we can, for example, connect it with some chatbot (kind of ingame irc support, or with a offline python chatscript). there is already formula console to evaluate formulas, so nothing new to invent.
20090403 19:37:42< alink> Crab_: yeah nothing new, except that to be nice, it must react to how the current game is going, not just isolated action
20090403 19:38:32-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.216] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 19:39:18< Crab_> alink: yes, this will be trickier to get right. for that it would need to filter out exceptional situations from the ordinary and react to these..
20090403 19:39:38< Crab_> alink: for a too-chatty ai would not be fun )
20090403 19:40:00< alink> "HAL: Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this."
20090403 19:40:58< Crab_> yes, something like this ))
20090403 19:41:07< Blueblaze> Anyone else notice the border where the introduction/download links are on www.wesnoth.org doesn't go around the picture anymore?
20090403 19:41:09< alink> Crab_: i think we have a "ignore" command (never used)
20090403 19:42:46< alink> hehe these quotes are funny to read and make me want to see that movie again http://www.sciflicks.com/2001/quotes.html
20090403 19:46:04< alink> ah the full quote is 'Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over. '
20090403 19:46:08< csaunders> Blueblaze: what do you mean?  It looks fine to me
20090403 19:46:39< alink> wesbot bug 0
20090403 19:46:39< wesbot> alink: Are you sure with that number?  Please check again...
20090403 19:47:04< Blueblaze> csaunders: Might be my browser specific (Firefox 3) or just something wrong with the way my computer is displaying it in general :P
20090403 19:47:31< csaunders> I am using FF3 on Linux... and it seems fine :S
20090403 19:47:54< Blueblaze> same ;p
20090403 19:47:59< Blueblaze> Let me ss and show you how it looks on mine
20090403 19:50:54< Blueblaze> csaunders: http://imagebin.org/44187
20090403 19:51:24< csaunders> ok... yeah.. definitely not what I am seeing :P
20090403 19:51:47< Blueblaze> heh
20090403 19:54:06< csaunders> Blueblaze: are you pretty much on a vanilla install?
20090403 19:54:11< Blueblaze> yeah
20090403 19:54:14< csaunders> ahh
20090403 19:54:22< Blueblaze> I installed Ubuntu about 2 or so weeks ago
20090403 19:54:29< csaunders> gnome-look.org
20090403 19:54:32< Blueblaze> I haven't had really much need/desire to change it :p
20090403 19:54:35< csaunders> the default theme is so blah
20090403 19:55:07< Blueblaze> heh
20090403 19:55:28< Blueblaze> I like it
20090403 19:55:36< Blueblaze> I still have the background the same as default :p
20090403 19:56:07< csaunders> ah :P
20090403 19:56:49< CIA-30> mordante * r34437 /trunk/src/mapgen.cpp: Fix a compiler warning and code cleanup.
20090403 19:56:55< Blueblaze> csaunders: My biggest concern for not changing the layout though is because I fear that if I install a new one it'll require more from my computer
20090403 19:57:25< csaunders> you already have Compiz running right?
20090403 19:57:38< csaunders> cause the themes really don't have any 'more' requirements
20090403 19:58:20< Blueblaze> ah
20090403 19:58:39< csaunders> yeah, maybe if you were to use emerald it might need more, but emerald is nice :P
20090403 20:03:30< Dragonking> Good evening everyone
20090403 20:03:37< Crab_> evening, Dragonking
20090403 20:07:37< crimson_penguin> so I have a problem on Mac: what should happen when you press cmd+q? (that's normally quit)
20090403 20:07:53< crimson_penguin> currently, it's the same as pressing the close button on the main window
20090403 20:08:32< crimson_penguin> but the problem is, the quit menu item inside Wesnoth also gets the cmd+q event, and it throws up a dialog "are you sure you want to quit?"
20090403 20:11:20-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 20:15:34-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit []
20090403 20:19:09-!- YogiHH [n=chatzill@d097201.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 20:20:29-!- viggy_prabhu [i=d2d40558@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d4e9c4a549c646af] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"]
20090403 20:33:59< heineckm> Mentors: Hi all, I just submitted an application (Evolutionary Algorithm-Based AI).  If you could let me know when you get a chance to take a look at it, I'd very much appreciate it.  Thanks!
20090403 20:34:55< mordante> heineckm, is it finished or WIP?
20090403 20:36:04< csaunders> mordante: do we need to flag our application as finished?
20090403 20:36:42< mordante> csaunders, as Turuk PM'ed you we consider them finished in 25 minutes
20090403 20:36:47< csaunders> I completed mine a few days ago... I just figured you will see all of them
20090403 20:36:52< csaunders> ahh... well, it's done :P
20090403 20:37:08< mordante> yes, but I already started to review some of them ;-)
20090403 20:37:16< csaunders> ahh right on
20090403 20:37:38< csaunders> are the able to see any comments on them yet?
20090403 20:37:50-!- KingofCamelot [n=davidsan@ip98-182-16-78.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 20:38:08< mordante> you can already see the public reviews after they're posted
20090403 20:38:21< mordante> the private ones remain private ;-)
20090403 20:38:33-!- KingofCamelot [n=davidsan@ip98-182-16-78.sb.sd.cox.net] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 20:40:00< csaunders> who is jeremy rosen?
20090403 20:40:06< mordante> boucman, 
20090403 20:40:11< csaunders> ahh
20090403 20:40:31< csaunders> boucman: I have a mockup working... sort of
20090403 20:41:20< heineckm> mordante: i could elaborate on some parts if necessary, but it's essentially done
20090403 20:42:30< heineckm> mordante: that is, i won't edit it any more, but if you feel some parts need elaboration, let me know
20090403 20:43:17< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34438 /trunk/ (9 files in 7 dirs): updated Hungarian and Indonesian translation
20090403 20:43:19< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34439 /branches/1.6/ (9 files in 7 dirs): updated Hungarian and Indonesian translation
20090403 20:44:03< mordante> heineckm, it seems you applied twice in melange
20090403 20:44:13-!- viggy_prabhu [i=d2d40558@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-081b7886945d279b] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 20:45:38< cjhopman> does that raise your chances?
20090403 20:45:58< mordante> heineckm, can you withdraw one of them
20090403 20:46:30< mordante> cjhopman, depends :-P
20090403 20:49:11< heineckm> mordante: i thought i already fixed that...
20090403 20:49:36< heineckm> mordante: it is fixed now, or is google slow in updating on your end?
20090403 20:49:45-!- alink [n=alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090403 20:49:48< Ivanovic> it is fixed
20090403 20:49:53< heineckm> thanks
20090403 20:50:04< mordante> for me too, but melange seems a bit slow
20090403 20:50:18< heineckm> not surprisngly, it is crunch time
20090403 20:50:22-!- alink [n=alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 20:50:26< Ivanovic> there might be several thousand currently trying to submit their proposal
20090403 20:50:38< mordante> the webapp of last year seemed to be faster
20090403 20:50:40< Ivanovic> i will wait 10 more mins before starting with some more reviewing
20090403 20:51:07< heineckm> sweet, that gives me enough time to grab some lunch
20090403 20:51:13< mordante> heineckm, how much did you play wesnoth?
20090403 20:51:45< heineckm> mordante: i downloaded it and played through a couple of scenarios
20090403 20:52:26< Ivanovic> this is not too much for an ai project
20090403 20:52:29< mordante> the problem I see is that you need quite a bit of experience with Wesnoth to understand it's gameplay and tactics
20090403 20:52:42< mordante> and that's hard needed to develop an AI
20090403 20:53:20< heineckm> i feel like i don't really need to with an evolutionary ai, though
20090403 20:53:29< csaunders> to anyone who will be reviewing my profile, I will have a demo running in about 5 minutes
20090403 20:53:53< mordante> csaunders, how long will the demo be there?
20090403 20:54:00< heineckm> the only part that would need it is the evaluation function, but sirp said that that could be a argument passed in by whoever wants to use the ai
20090403 20:54:02< csaunders> for a while I guess
20090403 20:54:09< csaunders> I can leave it run...
20090403 20:54:23< mordante> I prefer to finish reviewing heineckm's application first
20090403 20:54:33< csaunders> though, when you are done could you PM me on the message board
20090403 20:54:38< csaunders> oh it's not big deal
20090403 20:54:46< heineckm> for getting an original test evaluation function it doesn't need to be that in-depth, and i figured i could get help with it anyway if necessary
20090403 20:55:22< csaunders> alright, it's up
20090403 20:55:32< csaunders> csaunders322.servegame.org:3000/games/get/pie
20090403 20:55:49< mordante> heineckm, it's less important for an evolutionary ai, but having a good grasp of Wesnoth is a big advantage for this project
20090403 20:56:06< csaunders> I have some unstable stuff on my dev machine, once I have it running all nicely and such I will load that up on the server as well.
20090403 20:56:53-!- thaer89 [n=thaer89@77.245.11.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090403 20:56:59-!- thaer89 [n=thaer89@87.238.134.64] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 20:57:39< heineckm> mordante: i definitely have a good grasp of all the basics... all the finer intricacies and strategies would come from playing the game more, which i certainly wouldn't complain about
20090403 20:58:07-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090403 20:58:22-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 20:59:29-!- elias [n=allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090403 21:00:45< Ivanovic> okay, times up
20090403 21:00:55< Ivanovic> every not submitted application: good luck next year!
20090403 21:00:56< Ivanovic> ^^
20090403 21:03:00< chains>  The mute command should work with people playing in a game as well observers ;) 
20090403 21:03:11< mordante> heineckm, you explained the ideas and how an evolutionary AI should work
20090403 21:03:21< Blueblaze> chains: You can mute observers seperately
20090403 21:03:29< mordante> heineckm, I only miss how you want to integrate the results back in Wesnoth
20090403 21:03:31< chains> I want to mute the guy who is playing against me. 
20090403 21:03:38< chains> I know I can use my ignore list ;) 
20090403 21:03:44< mordante> and how you want to keep it evolving 
20090403 21:04:17< csaunders> alright, there is a bit more info displaying things about that chart.
20090403 21:04:21< csaunders> anyway... gotta get off to class :P
20090403 21:08:01-!- oak_ [i=oakus@c02--112b.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Connection timed out]
20090403 21:08:06-!- csaunders [n=chris@216.239.82.147] has quit ["csaunders has no reason"]
20090403 21:08:49< Velory> Ivanovic or other mentors :): How is going how many proposals ? 
20090403 21:08:58< Ivanovic> 35 proposals
20090403 21:09:04< Velory> O.o
20090403 21:09:11< Velory> Reall !!
20090403 21:09:14< Velory> really
20090403 21:09:14< Ivanovic> with other words: lots of stuff for us to read
20090403 21:09:18< Ivanovic> and comment on
20090403 21:09:22< Velory> yes :)
20090403 21:09:25< Velory> really hard work
20090403 21:09:35< Velory> for you :)
20090403 21:09:40-!- viggy_prabhu [i=d2d40558@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-081b7886945d279b] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"]
20090403 21:09:47< Velory> wow
20090403 21:14:22-!- torghul [n=chatzill@78.175.15.171] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]"]
20090403 21:15:06-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@66-189-40-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 21:16:20-!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 21:18:20-!- silene [n=plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 21:18:34< silene> hi
20090403 21:18:49< Crab_> hi silene
20090403 21:21:18< Velory> hi silene
20090403 21:22:19< Velory> mordante: around ?
20090403 21:22:29< mordante> hi silene 
20090403 21:22:35< mordante> Velory, yes
20090403 21:23:02< Velory> mordante: i missed the gui tool link u sent me yesterday is it true ? > http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesnothGL
20090403 21:23:04< grzywacz> evening
20090403 21:23:14< Velory> grzywacz:  evening
20090403 21:23:36< mordante> Velory, no http://wesnoth.org/wiki/GUIToolkit and the chan is logged, have a look at the topic
20090403 21:23:51-!- Skizzaltix [n=chatzill@66.92.79.71] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 21:23:54-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Success]
20090403 21:24:01< Velory> mordante:  ok
20090403 21:24:08-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 21:24:56< stikonas> Ivanovic: Do you know if there is any reason why only outlaws and undead have female^ description for units that have both male and female variations?
20090403 21:25:09< Ivanovic> silene: no idea
20090403 21:26:18< Ivanovic> argh, ment stikonas, not silene
20090403 21:29:49< stikonas> Ivanovic: Would it be a good idea to add it everywhere? Translators of gender-irrelevant languages would be able to copy the same string.
20090403 21:30:01< stikonas> so it wouldn't add a lot of work
20090403 21:30:10< Ivanovic> stikonas: the matter is that i have no idea where the female string is shown
20090403 21:30:18< Ivanovic> since i guess that the mail string is shown in the ingame help
20090403 21:30:24< Ivanovic> but where is the female one used?
20090403 21:30:36< stikonas> Ivanovic: in popup tips
20090403 21:31:33< stikonas> during the game if you move the mouse to status panel, female^ description will be used for female units
20090403 21:31:45-!- alink [n=alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 21:32:24-!- armando87 [n=armando@189.242.45.43] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 21:32:39< Ivanovic> stikonas: remind me in some days/weeks
20090403 21:32:47< Ivanovic> clearly not a fix that will be done before 1.6.1
20090403 21:32:48< silene> yes, all the attributes of the "female" variation overwrite the "male" ones
20090403 21:33:05< Ivanovic> especially since i am busy now with wading through *many* applications...
20090403 21:33:20< silene> and i agree that the female descriptions could be removed
20090403 21:33:21< stikonas> Ivanovic: I can do the patch and it is clearly for 1.7 branch
20090403 21:33:44< Ivanovic> stikonas: great, please do so
20090403 21:34:07< Ivanovic> silene: if they are used as mouse over (why do we show complete descriptions there?!?) they make sense
20090403 21:34:20< Ivanovic> though in general i'd say: remove this part of the mouse over
20090403 21:34:48-!- armando87 [n=armando@189.242.45.43] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 21:35:28< silene> Ivanovic: no, they don't make sense; if you look at the actual description, nothing depends on the unit gender, so the male one could be used instead; that would make one less string to translate, and less memory used
20090403 21:35:57< Ivanovic> hmm, right
20090403 21:36:24< Ivanovic> though in some languages it *might* make a difference regarding which verbs are to be used if you are talking about a male or a female being
20090403 21:36:46< Ivanovic> so it *can* make a difference, though i think that our lengthy desciprtions are nothing to be shown in a mouse over
20090403 21:38:05< silene> Ivanovic: i wasn't talking in general; i was talking about the particular strings stikonas mentionned
20090403 21:40:53< silene> if someone ever decides to write a unit description that is actually talking about the unit itself, then the female description will be useful
20090403 21:40:58< Ivanovic> silene: i just looked at the the DA description
20090403 21:41:13< Ivanovic> and i could think of languages forcing you to use a specific form for females
20090403 21:41:56< mordante> cjhopman, the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo_hashing| should be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo_hashing
20090403 21:42:00< Ivanovic> though all i can say is: screw the description part being split into genders
20090403 21:43:03< stikonas> Ivanovic: so female^ descriptions can be removed?
20090403 21:43:17< stikonas> in 2 gender variation units
20090403 21:43:21< Ivanovic> stikonas: short guess: yeah
20090403 21:44:24-!- fendrin [n=fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 21:44:42< Crab_> stikonas: for example, russian translation of DA description is different for female/male
20090403 21:46:44< cjhopman> mordante: thanks, fixed
20090403 21:46:48-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
20090403 21:46:51-!- Skizzaltix [n=chatzill@66.92.79.71] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 21:47:52< silene> Crab_: how so? i can't see from the english text where the gender matters
20090403 21:48:07-!- YogiHH [n=chatzill@d097201.adsl.hansenet.de] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 21:48:46-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 21:48:46< stikonas> silene: the biggest difference is probably in the translation of Necromancer itself.
20090403 21:49:50< stikonas> silene: and words like their can be translated differently when describing males and females
20090403 21:49:58< silene> stikonas: sure, but neither necromancer or dark adept or whatever appears in the description
20090403 21:50:34< silene> it only talks about the practioners (plural) of the dark arts
20090403 21:50:53< silene> practitioners*
20090403 21:51:02< Crab_> silene,  in "the training which these fanatics must endure" author reworded the sentence to use "fanatics" in different gender forms.
20090403 21:52:36< stikonas> Crab_: but as Ivanovic said is it worth having split descriptions?
20090403 21:54:41< Crab_> stikonas: well, two different versions allow a translator to write more passionate descriptions, if he wants to. but if he doesn't want to and writes in a gender-neutral form, that's another matter...
20090403 21:54:42< stikonas> Crab_: especially when they are used only in mouse over descriptions
20090403 21:55:18< stikonas> Crab_: then talk to silene and Ivanovic, as it it not me who decides
20090403 21:55:40 * Ivanovic says get rid of the unrequired work that noone will really notice anyway
20090403 21:55:54< Ivanovic> and also get rid of the unit descriptions shown as mouse over!!!
20090403 21:55:59-!- YogiHH [n=chatzill@c219085.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 21:56:13< Crab_> stikonas: yes, if it is not used much that it is better to don't waste translator's time on writing them. I'll re-read russian units translation now, to see if there's anything interesting (gender-specific, that is) in descriptions there.
20090403 21:56:33< mordante> I'm off bye
20090403 21:56:43-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090403 21:56:53-!- mordante [n=mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090403 21:57:35< zookeeper> showing the unit descriptions on mouse over is used and is a useful feature. don't remove that.
20090403 21:58:19< Crab_> stikonas: and there's some units who only have the female version :))
20090403 21:59:21< stikonas> Crab_: those will obviosly remain and none of them have female^ in their description.
20090403 21:59:29< silene> Crab_: these ones are fine, since they aren't hidden by the male ones in the dialog boxes
20090403 22:00:25-!- thaer89 [n=thaer89@87.238.134.64] has quit []
20090403 22:05:21< Crab_> stikonas, silene: ok, I've read through the russian unit translation - there is no specific female-highly-different-from-male descriptions other than minor changes in word endings to account for profession. no serious stuff.
20090403 22:05:50< stikonas> silene: I'll send you a patch
20090403 22:06:10< stikonas> I've already removed them
20090403 22:09:36< CIA-30> zookeeper * r34440 /trunk/data/multiplayer/scenarios/ANL_utils/ANL_research_options.cfg: Fixed bug #13312 (untranslated unit names in ANL).
20090403 22:11:18-!- Skizzaltix [n=chatzill@66.92.79.71] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 22:11:23-!- csaunders [n=christop@137.122.206.229] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 22:12:42< CIA-30> zookeeper * r34441 /branches/1.6/data/multiplayer/scenarios/ANL_utils/ANL_research_options.cfg: Ported r34440 to 1.6.
20090403 22:15:38< zookeeper> Ivanovic, that makes a couple of strings translatable and puts them into the wesnoth-units textdomain (the same strings already exist there). am i right in that it doesn't require you to even run a pot-update or anything for those to start working properly in-game?
20090403 22:16:00-!- Skizzaltix [n=chatzill@66.92.79.71] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090403 22:16:13< Ivanovic> wesnoth-units?
20090403 22:16:29< Ivanovic> those are not searched for in the anl folder
20090403 22:16:47< Ivanovic> you will have to alter the expression in po/wesnoth-units/FINDCFG to have it in
20090403 22:17:14< Ivanovic> but yeah, in general something like this should work
20090403 22:18:15< zookeeper> uh, ok. so do i actually need to do anything or will you handle that?
20090403 22:19:54< zookeeper> i didn't realize the lookup worked differently for different textdomains, i figured the process would just scan all appropriate files everywhere instead of doing it by textdomain.
20090403 22:20:37< Ivanovic> yeah, the lookup works only on files it is told to lookup
20090403 22:21:02-!- JW1 [n=X@cpe-71-72-142-89.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 22:21:02< zookeeper> looks like that's done simply to make it faster, right?
20090403 22:21:03< Ivanovic> and since the script chokes on "unbalanced terms" like some macros in the main file, only folders that "make sense" are searched
20090403 22:21:17< zookeeper> i see
20090403 22:21:25< Ivanovic> it is mainly done to have things work with the "provide some context"
20090403 22:21:48< Ivanovic> because of this displaying of context barely works in the main and lib file where it does work in all the others
20090403 22:24:08< Ivanovic> though since this is just about the unit types, it should not make a problem if it is not listed a 2nd time
20090403 22:24:55< zookeeper> ok, anyway: so if i have a #textdomain wesnoth-units and then a {DEBUG_MSG _"Spearman"} somewhere in the ANL files, it won't work even though the lookup script doesn't need to find that string to begin with (since it's just a copy of a string already in wesnoth-units)?
20090403 22:25:09< Ivanovic> it *should* work, just check it yourself
20090403 22:25:11< zookeeper> well, that's what i wanted to know
20090403 22:25:19-!- YogiHH [n=chatzill@c219085.adsl.hansenet.de] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090403 22:26:29< silene> zookeeper: it will work
20090403 22:27:16< zookeeper> ok, cool. testing for translations is icky since they won't work on my checkouts and it's annoying to fiddle with the actual installations...
20090403 22:29:24-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 22:29:25< Dragonking> Crab_: Around?
20090403 22:29:29< Crab_> yes
20090403 22:30:20-!- alink [n=alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 22:30:21< stikonas> silene: will you commit description removing patch?
20090403 22:30:42< silene> stikonas: yes, i'm doing it right now
20090403 22:32:37< Dragonking> Crab_: I have some problems with test scenario for formula AI
20090403 22:32:47< Crab_> tell me, then )
20090403 22:32:54< Dragonking> formula AI is object created, but not "executed"
20090403 22:32:59< Dragonking> Default AI moves everything
20090403 22:33:06< Dragonking> latest rev, no changes
20090403 22:33:40< Crab_> how-to-reproduce ? which scenario should I load ?
20090403 22:33:58< Dragonking> wesnoth -t formula -d
20090403 22:34:21< Dragonking> Goblins should move first, not archer that kills another archer
20090403 22:35:37< CIA-30> silene * r34442 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Removed female descriptions from units without specific gender, as these descriptions are seldom displayed. (patch from stikonas)
20090403 22:38:16-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090403 22:38:31-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 22:39:48< Crab_> Dragonking: ok, I'll start debugging it now. it doesn't pick formula_ai as an algorithm for side 2 during team creation. meanwhile, you can exec "!replace_ai 2 ai/ais/formula_ai.cfg" (without the quotes) from the formula console to get formula ai to load for side 2
20090403 22:40:22< Dragonking> Crab_: ok, I don't need to use it now, I just spotted this bug :)
20090403 22:42:08< crimson_penguin> an ideal solution to the Mac quitting inconsistency, would be to make Wesnoth's quit menu option behave the same as clicking the close button, and then remove the key command for that on Mac, and let the Mac menu handle it (by sending an SDL_QUIT event)
20090403 22:44:08< esr> Sapient! Oh Sapient! From the vasty deep I summon thee! From the void between worlds I call thee up!
20090403 22:45:54< silene> crimson_penguin: which inconsistency are you trying to fix?
20090403 22:46:12< crimson_penguin> silene: https://gna.org/bugs/?13245
20090403 22:46:57< crimson_penguin> basically, cmd+q on Mac has the same effect as clicking the close button on the window; but it gets handled by the in-game menu as well, which asks if you really want to quit
20090403 22:47:21< crimson_penguin> so if you press cmd+q, it asks if you want to quit, and then it quits regardless what you say
20090403 22:47:45< silene> indeed, that's dumb
20090403 22:48:08< crimson_penguin> I could just remove the Mac key command, but I don't think that's the best way to fix this
20090403 22:48:29< silene> but i don't understand why you need to modify the menu; just removing the key seems like the way to do it, no?
20090403 22:48:31< crimson_penguin> I think it would probably be best on all platforms for the quit menu option to behave the same as clicking close
20090403 22:48:35-!- KingofCamelot [n=davidsan@ip98-182-16-78.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 22:49:55< crimson_penguin> I think it would be more "correct" for the Mac menu to handle it than the Wesnoth menu, because then you'll get the little highlight in the menu, like a proper Mac app - I know it's a tiny thing, but it's the little things that matter with stuff like this
20090403 22:50:01 * esr agress with crimson_penguin
20090403 22:50:38-!- zookeeper [n=l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20090403 22:52:44< silene> crimson_penguin: that i agree with; but what the mac menu provides is orthogonal to what the wesnoth menu provides; or am i missing something?
20090403 22:54:08< crimson_penguin> I'm not sure what you mean, but... currently the Mac menu option mimics clicking the close button (quit immediately), while the Wesnoth menu option asks whether you want to quit
20090403 22:54:41< Ivanovic> Dragonking: just wanted to review your application
20090403 22:54:57< silene> so isn't the mac menu already working like you want it to work? i'm confused
20090403 22:55:00< Ivanovic> after opening your page i can only say: man, you are *INSANE* giving me this much to read...
20090403 22:55:08< crimson_penguin> so I propose: clicking the close button mimics the Wesnoth menu option, and then we can remove the key command for the Wesnoth menu option (if we don't, it'll ask you about quitting twice)
20090403 22:55:11< Dragonking> Ivanovic: Sorry. :)
20090403 22:55:44< Dragonking> Ivanovic: YOu cna start from http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/FormulaAISoC2009Dragonking#Straight_to_the_point ;p
20090403 22:55:48-!- KoC [n=davidsan@ip98-182-16-78.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 22:56:01< crimson_penguin> silene: well, it would be if the close button worked the same as the Wesnoth quit menu option
20090403 22:56:39< silene> i understand now; i didn't get that you wanted to change the behavior of the close button
20090403 22:56:52< crimson_penguin> good :)
20090403 22:59:09-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090403 23:05:53-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Success]
20090403 23:08:10< CIA-30> crab * r34443 /trunk/src/team.cpp: fixed bug with ai_algorithm not taking effect if it is put directly into [side], not in [ai]. thanks to Dragonking for spotting the buggy behavior
20090403 23:08:14< Crab_> Dragonking: ^^^^ thanks. an error on my part - accepted ai_algorithm_type only in [ai], not in [side]
20090403 23:11:13< Dragonking> :)
20090403 23:12:16-!- heineckm [n=heineckm@216-164-157-6.c3-0.eas-ubr5.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090403 23:13:56-!- KingofCamelot [n=davidsan@ip98-182-16-78.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090403 23:15:26< silene> crimson_penguin: after trying to fix it, i'm still a bit confused; wesnoth menu doesn't make you leave the program, only the current game; so it doesn't really make sense for the close button to behave the same, does it?
20090403 23:18:32-!- csaunders [n=christop@137.122.206.229] has quit ["BitchX: to the rescue!"]
20090403 23:34:33< Ivanovic> Dragonking: well done application
20090403 23:34:42< Dragonking> Ivanovic: Thank you :)
20090403 23:35:00< Ivanovic> though why do you make me read this much?!?
20090403 23:35:21< Dragonking> I wanted to make you sure that I know exactly what I want to do :)
20090403 23:36:09< cjhopman> hah, my goal was to not be longer than dragonking's
20090403 23:36:32< Ivanovic> cjhopman: this is a trival goal to reach!
20090403 23:36:33< Ivanovic> ^^
20090403 23:37:24< Velory> :)
20090403 23:40:34< cjhopman> Ivanovic: yeah, but i tend to go on and on when talking (or writing) about something that interests me
20090403 23:41:32 * Ivanovic fears the amount to read that he will have to face...
20090403 23:42:10-!- KnightR [n=anonymou@bb121-7-175-14.singnet.com.sg] has quit []
20090403 23:42:40< cjhopman> yeah, reviewing them all would be a bit of work
20090403 23:43:48< Ivanovic> cjhopman: and all applications *have* to be reviewd
20090403 23:43:58< Ivanovic> and most basically twice since we will often ask for changes
20090403 23:47:19< boucman> Ivanovic: I think that the biggest will be Crab_ :)
20090403 23:47:28< boucman> his proposal is a whole wiki section :P
20090403 23:47:44< Ivanovic> boucman: i am currently wading through those without any comment in the google tracker
20090403 23:47:59< Ivanovic> crabs proposal already has a comment, so getting to his again will take a while...
20090403 23:48:29< Crab_> boucman: I've got ~16 pages, Dragonking has got ~17 (but that is without counting additional pages for those who are interested in *more details* )
20090403 23:48:51< boucman> :)
20090403 23:50:15-!- stikonas [n=stikonas@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090403 23:50:24< Crab_> boucman: but, if there's anything not covered, I'll be happy to explain in more detail )
20090403 23:53:22< boucman> Crab_: we are currently trying to catch up on all the new proposals, so the ones that have already be reviewed will have to wait a little
20090403 23:53:31< boucman> but from what I saw so far, it sounds good
20090403 23:53:32< Crab_> boucman: np
--- Log closed Sat Apr 04 00:00:02 2009