--- Log opened Tue Apr 07 00:00:29 2009
20090407 00:00:48< silene> anyway, it's getting late, i better get to bed now in order not to look too much like a zombie during my three meetings tomorrow
20090407 00:00:52< zookeeper> silene, would there be any point to a system where the modifier is only applied if the result (hit or miss) is the same as on the previous swing?
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20090407 00:00:56< zookeeper> uh oh, ok.
20090407 00:01:05< zookeeper> (if you have 50% and miss, you get +10%, if you miss again, you get +10%, then if you hit, you don't get -10% but instead drop straight back to 50%)
20090407 00:01:55< Polarina> zookeeper: Just keep it at 50%. It just confuses everyone doing it like that...
20090407 00:04:28< Reisiger> Good Night everyone.
20090407 00:04:37< Espreon> Goodnight.
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20090407 00:04:44< Polarina> Good night.
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20090407 00:09:12-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.6.1 planned for Sunday, April 12th, stringfreeze for branches/1.6 ! | Summer of Code info: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 52 bugs, 230 feature requests, 11 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090407 00:17:30< Crab_> YogiHH: and if we add campaign info to the [snapshot] section, warnings, such as (could not open image 'units/konrad-fighter.png') about images disappear...
20090407 00:18:14< YogiHH> Crab_: ah, interesting
20090407 00:19:37< Crab_> YogiHH:  http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m2d6e9669
20090407 00:20:49< YogiHH> Crab_: nice, that should get me a step forward indeed, thanks
20090407 00:20:52< Crab_> YogiHH: sorry, some old stuff there. It should be http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m774632e8
20090407 00:21:50< Crab_> so, I'd guess that "20090407 01:18:43 error display: Tile at -999,-999 isn't on the map, can't scroll to the tile." is where it start to break becasue of your save format changes. But, if we add [snapshot],  we don't get the errors about images...
20090407 00:22:10< YogiHH> yes
20090407 00:23:06< Crab_> so, maybe that "earlier" define of the campaign in [snapshot] causes that changed behavior..
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20090407 00:24:21< Ivanovic> time for me to head off to bed, n8
20090407 00:26:21< Polarina> Good night, Ivanovic.
20090407 00:26:25< Polarina> I'm going to bed too.
20090407 00:26:49< Polarina> Góða nótt og sofið rótt vinir mínir. :)
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20090407 00:29:29< Espreon> No comprendo islandés.
20090407 00:30:30< Ivanovic> i understand the beginning, but thats it...
20090407 00:30:39< Ivanovic> (Good night and...)
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20090407 00:32:02< Polarina> Ivanovic: It translates to "Good night and sleep tight, my friends".
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20090407 00:32:19< Ivanovic> ah
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20090407 00:33:34< Polarina> Espreon: Mi ankaŭ ne komprenas hispana.
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20090407 00:35:58< Polarina> Espreon: A w języku polskim: Ja nie rozumiem ciebie.
20090407 00:36:18< Espreon> Polarina: Although I have an idea what the first sentence was, what does it exactly mean?
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20090407 00:36:27< Polarina> Espreon: Which one?
20090407 00:36:40< Espreon> "Mi ankaŭ ne komprenas hispana."
20090407 00:36:44< dfranke> Having dabbled with Old English allows me to pick out a few isolated words from Icelandic.
20090407 00:36:53< Polarina> Espreon: It's Esperanto. Everyone is supposed to understand that.
20090407 00:37:03< dfranke> but right now it's not helping that PuTTY is munging my unicode :-)
20090407 00:37:26< Espreon> Polarina: Supposedly.
20090407 00:37:32< Polarina> Espreon: It translates to "I also do not understand Spanish"
20090407 00:37:55< Crab_> YogiHH: yes, in both cases data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne gets added to the binary search path. but in case A, it comes later, after the images were not found...
20090407 00:38:07< Espreon> But, my sentence said "I do not comprehend Icelandic."
20090407 00:38:39< Espreon> No comprendo esperanto.
20090407 00:39:53< Polarina> Espreon: s/komprenas/ampleksas/ then
20090407 00:40:21< Espreon> Polarina: Nonetheless, I was almost right when guessing the meaning of your sentence.
20090407 00:41:30< Polarina> Espreon: En sniðugt. :)
20090407 00:41:51< Espreon> Hmmmm?
20090407 00:42:01< Crab_> YogiHH, or, to be more strict,  'data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne' is added to binary search path at the same time (backtraces are the same in both cases), but when snapshot is empty, error messages about images are already present...
20090407 00:42:02< Polarina> Espreon: Það er svo margt ég gæti sagt þér, en hví fyrirhöfnin, þú munn hvort eð ei skilja mig.
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20090407 00:42:10< Polarina> s/munn/munt/
20090407 00:42:38< Espreon> Although I am quite fond of thorns and eths, I do not understand Icelandic.
20090407 00:43:11< dfranke> yay, fixed my unicode rendering.
20090407 00:43:21< Polarina> Espreon: Ég myndi ekki mæla með að læra íslensku. Málfræðin í henni er alveg afskaplega flókin.
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20090407 00:43:57< dfranke> I'm guessing "þú" is "you"?
20090407 00:44:02< Polarina> dfranke: Rétt.
20090407 00:44:18< Espreon> ¡Ay, Dios mío!
20090407 00:44:43< Espreon> ¡No comprendo islandés.
20090407 00:44:45< Espreon> *!
20090407 00:44:47< Polarina> Espreon: Oh, my good, too!
20090407 00:45:28< dfranke> I still haven't figured out the etymology of "ampleksas" though.
20090407 00:45:44< Espreon> I didn't say "Oh my good!" I said "Oh my God!"
20090407 00:45:56< Polarina> Espreon: Eins og ég sagði, þá myndir þú hvort eð ei skilja mig. En ég vildi svo til að hunsa sjálfan mig þegar ég sagði að ég ætti ekki að hafa fyrir þessu.
20090407 00:46:07< Polarina> Espreon: Spelling error...
20090407 00:46:19< Espreon> Very well.
20090407 00:46:31 * Espreon runs away from Polarina.
20090407 00:46:37< Polarina> Espreon: Komdu aftur!
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20090407 00:47:03< Espreon> ¡Tengo que correr!
20090407 00:47:29< Polarina> o.O
20090407 00:48:00< Espreon> But, it's true. I have to run...
20090407 00:48:02< Polarina> Espreon: Þótt spænskan sé ansi lík Esperanto, á ég samt erfitt með að skilja hana...
20090407 00:48:09< dfranke> is "ég" a copula?
20090407 00:48:15< Polarina> Espreon: Allt í lagi. Sjáumst síðar.
20090407 00:48:20< Polarina> dfranke: Ég = I
20090407 00:48:49< dfranke> what is "eð"?
20090407 00:48:57< Polarina> dfranke: Depends on the context.
20090407 00:49:14< Espreon> Polarina: What about Esperanto?
20090407 00:49:21< Polarina> Espreon: What about it?
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20090407 00:49:41< dfranke> ah... "ég" <-> "ego"
20090407 00:49:56< Polarina> Espreon: I said "Even if Spanish is similar to Esperanto, I still have difficulties understanding it..."
20090407 00:50:06< Polarina> Ego?
20090407 00:50:15< dfranke> Polarina: "self" in Latin.
20090407 00:50:19< Polarina> I see.
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20090407 00:52:30< dfranke> Does "sjálfan" mean "rural" or something along those lines?
20090407 00:52:30< Polarina> Þið trúið ei hvað það er gamann að tala við hóp af fólki en skilur mig ei. Ég gæti auðveldlega sagt hvað sem er, en enginn gæti gert eitthvað í því. :P
20090407 00:52:51< Polarina> dfranke: "Sjálfan mig" = myself
20090407 00:52:59< dfranke> meh, ok, way off :-)
20090407 00:53:09< Polarina> Sjálfan þig = yourself
20090407 00:53:16< CIA-30> jhinrichs * r34594 /trunk/src/game.cpp: Fixes missing unit images for start-of-scenario savegames. Special thanks to Crab_ for helping a great deal on this.
20090407 00:54:33< YogiHH> Crab_: Wow, that was a long journey (and i definitely learned some new parts of the code) :-)
20090407 00:54:47< Crab_> YogiHH: congratulations :)
20090407 00:54:49 * Polarina is tempted to translate her last sentence into English.
20090407 00:55:02< dfranke> Is "fyrir" something like "man" or "person"?
20090407 00:55:19< YogiHH> good night, everyone
20090407 00:55:21< dfranke> (Thinking OE "fir", Latin "vir")
20090407 00:55:21< Polarina> dfranke: fyrir mig = for me.  Þú ert fyrir = You are in my way.
20090407 00:55:28< Crab_> night, YogiHH
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20090407 00:58:24< Polarina> dfranke: Farðu frá == far þú frá (rarely used) == Go away from me
20090407 00:59:56< Polarina> dfranke: When adding a 2nd person reference ("þú", "þig", "þér", "þín"), it is often merged with the verb (more commonly the common verbs).
20090407 01:01:10< Polarina> dfranke: far þú = farðu.   gá þú = gáðu.   sjáðu = sjá þú.   klæddu þig = klædd þú þig.
20090407 01:02:55< dfranke> Polarina: yeah, Spanish does that with pronouns too.
20090407 01:03:25< Polarina> The grammar in Icelandic is massive.
20090407 01:03:57< Polarina> If you go over one grammar rule per hour, it'll still take you years to learn them all.
20090407 01:03:57< dfranke> Considering its linguistic proximity to OE, this is not a surprise.
20090407 01:06:20< Polarina> OE?
20090407 01:06:26< dfranke> Old English.
20090407 01:06:34< Polarina> Ah.
20090407 01:09:06< Espreon> dfranke: http://ang.wikipedia.org/
20090407 01:09:39< dfranke> Espreon: heh.
20090407 01:09:53< Espreon> For some reason, it is easier for me to read OE when presented in Anglo-Saxon runes...
20090407 01:10:50< Polarina> Vaðlaheiðavegavinnuhólarskúrslyklakyppuhringurinn is an example of a completely valid Icelandic word. :)
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20090407 01:11:13< Espreon> Heh...
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20090407 01:11:52< Polarina> Yes, crazy?
20090407 01:11:53< Polarina> :P
20090407 01:12:22< Espreon> If there are a lot of words of that length in Icelandic, then yes.
20090407 01:13:27< dfranke> Espreon: Somehow I suspect that was deliberately pathological.
20090407 01:13:36< Espreon> Huh?
20090407 01:14:05< grzywacz> Long words without visual break (whitespace...) are hard to read...
20090407 01:14:24< Polarina> Espreon: It's actually just many words put together. But grammar requires spaces to be dropped out there.
20090407 01:14:38< dfranke> Espreon: the Welsh like to scare people with that sort of thing too, but if you look at random Welsh text the word length is mostly pretty reasonable.
20090407 01:14:52< Espreon> Ah.
20090407 01:14:53< Polarina> Segl is one word. Skúta is another.  Saying "segl skúta" is wrong, when the correct is "seglskúta".
20090407 01:15:08< Espreon> Thanks for the clarification.
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20090407 01:18:45< Polarina> dfranke: What about translating Wesnoth into Old English?
20090407 01:18:58< Espreon> Ivanovic has nothing against it.
20090407 01:19:11< Espreon> ... when I talked to him about it.
20090407 01:19:45< Polarina> If I knew Old English, I would translate it into it. :)
20090407 01:20:23< Espreon> He also has nothing against a Middle English, or Old Norse translation.
20090407 01:20:29< Polarina> :)
20090407 01:20:56< Espreon> I think he said the same thing about a Proto-Norse translation, but I do not remember.
20090407 01:21:10< Polarina> I don't see why he should have anything against it.
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20090407 01:21:24< Espreon> dfranke: If you were to translate Wesnoth into Old English, would you use the Latin alphabet or good ol' Anglo-Saxon Runes.
20090407 01:21:28< Espreon> *runes?
20090407 01:21:43< dfranke> Espreon: I don't know nearly enough OE for such a task.
20090407 01:21:48< Polarina> Espreon: Both?
20090407 01:22:07< Espreon> Honestly, I would make both flavors available.
20090407 01:22:21< dfranke> Espreon: but if I did it, surely I'd go all the way and use the Fuþorc.
20090407 01:22:45< Espreon> But, I would make the Anglo-Saxon runic flavor first.
20090407 01:22:50 * Polarina should've gone to bed a long time ago.
20090407 01:22:56< Espreon> dfranke: Good.
20090407 01:23:08< dfranke> I think an Irish translation would be more fun than OE though.
20090407 01:23:19< Polarina> Espreon: Isn't it just the letters, no change in grammar, spelling or something like that?
20090407 01:23:30< Espreon> It's just the letters I think.
20090407 01:23:45< Polarina> Then it's just a matter of a mass Search & Replace. :)
20090407 01:23:53< Espreon> Yeah.
20090407 01:24:33< Espreon> dfranke: Meh... Irish... meh...
20090407 01:24:56< Espreon> Although I am Irish, I'd rather create an OE translation. But... yeah...
20090407 01:25:02< Espreon> *a quarter Irish
20090407 01:26:28< Polarina> I am off to bed.
20090407 01:26:31< Polarina> Good night.
20090407 01:26:38< Espreon> Goodnight.
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20090407 01:32:00< dfranke> Now, if you wanted to drive everyone completely mad: loyalists speak Old English; elves speak Irish; dwarves speak Scots Gaelic; orcs speak Gothic.
20090407 01:32:15< Espreon> Heh...
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20090407 01:33:50 * Turuk_ just misread Goth and had a picture of an orc going, "Everything sucks man, life is like so dark and gloomy.  What even really matters, death comes for us all, why even bother?" and dressing in all black.
20090407 01:34:26< dfranke> heh
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20090407 01:43:49< Sapient> more like a dark adept
20090407 01:44:34< dfranke> undead wouldn't really have their own language.
20090407 01:44:47< dfranke> they either speak whatever they spoke in life, or they're mute.
20090407 01:47:01< dfranke> Drakes' language should be something totally distant from the others.
20090407 01:47:26< Espreon> Due to all of this, the Elemental Monarchs (featured in my campaign) would speak Japanese...
20090407 01:47:41< dfranke> something from the Pacific islands or maybe the Middle East?
20090407 01:49:07< dfranke> Maybe Sumerian.
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20090407 01:58:17< dfranke> I like imagining the drakes' homeland as the pre-colonial Pacific islands, but that language family just doesn't seem phonetically suitable for a dragon.
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20090407 02:07:48< [Relic]> Hello :)
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20090407 03:07:44< Shadow_Master> freim: :D (though, when will w see those "polished transparent buttons" for mordante's dialogs? those pics were supposed to go in 1.6...)
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20090407 03:47:04< CIA-30> esr * r34595 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): Changelog update to reflect new features.
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20090407 04:58:28< dfranke> Soliton: around?
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20090407 06:09:12-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.6.1 planned for Sunday, April 12th, stringfreeze for branches/1.6 ! | Summer of Code info: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 54 bugs, 232 feature requests, 11 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090407 09:11:29< freim> Shadow_Master: haven't worked on the buttons yet, maybe we could involve West
20090407 09:17:12-!- euschn [n=chatzill@turing.logic.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 09:17:26< euschn> morning
20090407 09:20:30-!- zookeeper [n=l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 09:20:39< Espreon> Hola zookeeper.
20090407 09:21:01< Espreon> zookeeper: Will the new snow mountains images be backported to 1.6?
20090407 09:25:04-!- ryochan7 [n=ryochan7@173.9.238.161] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 09:34:45-!- YogiHH [i=d4ca9d15@wesnoth/developer/yogihh] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 09:35:18< YogiHH> hello everyone
20090407 09:35:29< Espreon> Hello YogiHH.
20090407 09:35:34< YogiHH> ilor: can you compile trunk atm?
20090407 09:35:59< zookeeper> Espreon, yes
20090407 09:36:02< YogiHH> ilor: config.cpp is giving me a hard time here
20090407 09:37:25< Espreon> zookeeper: OK, thanks.
20090407 09:37:39< Espreon> Now I do not have to backport. :)
20090407 09:37:50< dfranke> compiles fine for me.
20090407 09:39:47< Espreon> dfranke: I think he meant on Windows.
20090407 09:40:14< YogiHH> yes, windows :-)
20090407 09:40:20< euschn> hi ZogiHH
20090407 09:40:30< euschn> s/Z/Y
20090407 09:40:52< YogiHH> hey euschn
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20090407 09:45:02< ilor> YogiHH: checking
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20090407 09:51:47< Espreon> zookeeper: Sorry for asking, but, do you plan to get the new snow mountains in by 1.6.1?
20090407 09:51:56< Espreon> *snow mountains images
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20090407 09:55:19< ilor> YogiHH: so far config.cpp inself compiled, no link yet
20090407 09:55:26< ilor> *itself
20090407 09:55:50< Espreon> Hello elias.
20090407 09:56:14< elias> hello
20090407 09:57:13< YogiHH> ilor: hmm. Over here, it chokes on "config config::invalid;". Btw, what is that, actually? A variable with a namespace?
20090407 09:58:20< elias> or a class
20090407 09:59:40< ilor> YogiHH: no idea, recently added by silene
20090407 09:59:51< ilor> YogiHH: which version of MSVC have you got?
20090407 10:00:10< YogiHH> ilor: i mean what is that technically? I can't even tell if it is a variable or not.
20090407 10:00:21 * dfranke is glad he didn't break the build.
20090407 10:00:22< YogiHH> ilor: I got VC++ 2008 Express
20090407 10:00:32< zookeeper> Espreon, yes, i do
20090407 10:00:37< ilor> YogiHH: it's a static member of the config class
20090407 10:00:39< dfranke> I made a couple commits with a bunch of #ifdef _WIN32 yesterday.
20090407 10:00:50< Espreon> zookeeper: OK, thanks for the information.
20090407 10:01:44< ilor> YogiHH: I've got 2008Pro (shouldn't make a difference) SP1 (might)
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20090407 10:14:56< Baufo> morning
20090407 10:15:06< Reisiger> Good morning :)
20090407 10:15:41< ilor> Reisiger, regarding your readme
20090407 10:16:01< ilor> you write to do a C:\> path = %PATH%;C:\projects\_lib in order to set the path
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20090407 10:16:41< ilor> it's probably why you required a reboot, if you set it in system settings->advanced->env vars it works instanlty I think
20090407 10:16:56< Reisiger> Not with win7 x64...
20090407 10:17:02< Reisiger> cause I did set it there ^
20090407 10:17:48< Reisiger> I chose to write it that way, since between XP, vista and win7, the way to reach the settings varies slightly
20090407 10:17:56< ilor> okay
20090407 10:20:17< Reisiger> Might be one of those undocumented 'features' that come with a new Windows version... (or rather Win 6.1 aka Vista 1.1 as the build info notes :P )
20090407 10:20:44< CIA-30> ilor * r34596 /trunk/projectfiles/VC9/ (5 files): apply patch #1155: Maintenance Patch and HowTo for the VC9 project files by Reisiger
20090407 10:22:16 * Reisiger marvels as TortoiseSVN throws 3 conflicts at him :D
20090407 10:23:46< ilor> I may have had a local change that got rolled up
20090407 10:24:14< Reisiger> I think it's Tortoise not liking me having unversioned versions of those files in my folders :)
20090407 10:25:22< Reisiger> Thanks for reviewing the patch ilor.
20090407 10:27:27-!- johani [n=johani@c83-250-162-206.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 10:28:12< ilor> Reisiger: maybe post in the forum in the howtocompileonwindows thread about the readme?
20090407 10:28:29< Reisiger> Good idea, will do so.
20090407 10:29:37< johani> where would I look to see the status of a given translation/need of more contribution? playing through some campaigns in 1.6 and the translations are fine, where they're done, but somewhat incomplete :) (every other row swedish & english)
20090407 10:31:03< YogiHH> johani: http://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/
20090407 10:31:08< johani> hmm, only campaign authors are able to include translations of the respective campaign?
20090407 10:31:14< johani> YogiHH: thanks
20090407 10:31:49< ilor> YogiHH: trunk works for me. Can you try SP1 for vs?
20090407 10:33:47< YogiHH> ilor: not yet, i have to some paid work here ;-)
20090407 10:33:47< YogiHH> to do
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20090407 10:35:44< Reisiger> ilor: I better start a new thread. The one present is for Dev-Cpp
20090407 10:42:36< Reisiger> done
20090407 10:43:11-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 10:43:33< Espreon> Hello busfahrer.
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20090407 10:48:25< busfahrer> Hi.
20090407 10:51:36< Ivanovic> moin
20090407 10:53:21< ilor> off to uni, cu
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20090407 10:53:38< Ivanovic> johani: for mainline campaigns you should have a look at http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesnothTranslations and contact the maintainer of your language of choice
20090407 10:54:00< Ivanovic> the maintainer will tell you how you can help best and how to handle things
20090407 10:54:15< Ivanovic> basically it ends with "get the po files, translate them, send them to me"
20090407 10:54:30< Espreon> Hello Ivanovic.
20090407 10:55:05< Ivanovic> it only is a little more difficult to have translations for usermade content in (the stuff you get from the addon server), but that is possible, too
20090407 10:55:28< johani> Ivanovic: ah, sweet, thanks
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20090407 10:57:01< Ivanovic> you're welcome
20090407 10:57:28< Espreon> Hello loonycyborg.
20090407 10:57:32< Ivanovic> that is, as you can see here, swedish really can use a helping hand: http://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/index.lang.php?lang=sv&version=branch
20090407 10:57:51< Ivanovic> only the stuff marke as "translated" is shown ingame in swedish, the rest ist not
20090407 10:59:12-!- Crab_ [n=Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 10:59:16< Crab_> hi
20090407 10:59:34< Ivanovic> hi Crab_
20090407 10:59:42< Espreon> Hello Crab_.
20090407 11:00:56< johani> Ivanovic: yeah, saw that :) mailing maintainer
20090407 11:02:38< Ivanovic> i think tigge will react (as in: he is still active)
20090407 11:02:44< Ivanovic> though this might take some days
20090407 11:03:02< Tigge> hm?
20090407 11:03:13< Ivanovic> johani: even better, he reacts in here
20090407 11:03:24< Ivanovic> Tigge: looks like johani wants to help with the sweditsh translation
20090407 11:03:32< Tigge> oh, excellent!
20090407 11:04:16< johani> Tigge: ah, quite :) was writing email to you
20090407 11:05:07< johani> Tigge: found some oddities when playing through some campaigns, suppose they match up with http://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/index.lang.php?lang=sv&version=branch
20090407 11:05:20< Tigge> johani: ah, we can tallk in PM if that is easier for you
20090407 11:05:33< Tigge> johani: There are a quite few things left to do yes
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20090407 11:42:23< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34597 /trunk/po/ (3 files in 3 dirs): updated Chinese (Simplified) and Russian translation
20090407 11:43:22< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34598 /branches/1.6/po/ (3 files in 3 dirs): updated Chinese (Simplified) and Russian translation
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20090407 12:09:12-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.6.1 planned for Sunday, April 12th, stringfreeze for branches/1.6 ! | Summer of Code info: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 54 bugs, 232 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090407 12:23:02< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: short comment regarding the icondir/desktopdir stuff in scons: you can most likely remove the part about darwin
20090407 12:23:21< Ivanovic> since mac itself is not using the .desktop entry
20090407 12:24:50< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34599 /trunk/CMakeLists.txt: add installation of .desktop files (and corresponding icons) to cmake recipe
20090407 12:25:01< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34600 /branches/1.6/CMakeLists.txt: add installation of .desktop files (and corresponding icons) to cmake recipe
20090407 12:25:15< Ivanovic> beside this i just had a look at where other progs install the icons to: that is not icons/ but pixmaps/
20090407 12:30:27-!- Polarina [n=polarina@wesnoth/translator/Polarina] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 12:30:40< Espreon> Hola, Polarina.
20090407 12:32:21< Polarina> Hello.
20090407 12:33:55< Polarina> Did I miss anything of interest?
20090407 12:36:12< Espreon> Not really.
20090407 12:36:21< Espreon> Polarina: You could always check the logs.
20090407 12:38:26-!- mjs-de [n=mjs-de@vpw.wh.uni-dortmund.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 12:38:48< Ivanovic> Polarina: irclogs.wesnoth.org
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20090407 12:41:33< Espreon> Hello ilor.
20090407 12:41:38< ilor> hi
20090407 12:44:44< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: It's esr who originally set the default location of icondir. Desktop entry work as it should showing the icon. So probably the location scons uses is the correct too.
20090407 12:45:13< Ivanovic> okay, might be that xorg is rather liberal regarding the dirs
20090407 12:45:31< Ivanovic> i changed it to the "normal" one for the cmake recipe since all the other progs are putting it into pixmaps by now
20090407 12:46:28< Ivanovic> currently i am thinking about a good way to alter the .desktop files at install time, so that the *real* binary names are used
20090407 12:47:30< Ivanovic> (atm it is a hardcoded "exec=wesnoth" line (or wesnoth -e for the editor) which is suboptimal when a binary prefix or suffix is used
20090407 12:49:54< loonycyborg> Weird.. KDE 4.1 seems to confuse Name and GenericName in the desktop file.
20090407 12:50:15< Ivanovic> lovely
20090407 12:51:02 * Espreon hardly remembers KDE 4.1.
20090407 12:52:49< CIA-30> zookeeper * r34601 /trunk/data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/05_To_The_Harbour_Of_Tirigaz.cfg: Use the potion sound when drinking the holy water.
20090407 12:58:27 * Espreon wishes that there was a snowy variant of the great tree...
20090407 12:58:43< CIA-30> zookeeper * r34602 /trunk/data/campaigns/tutorial/scenarios/1_Tutorial.cfg: Removed gold carryover between the tutorial scenarios and disabled the carryover report.
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20090407 13:11:02< CIA-30> zookeeper * r34603 /branches/1.6/data/campaigns/tutorial/scenarios/1_Tutorial.cfg: Ported r34602 to 1.6.
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20090407 13:44:40< Polarina> Espreon: I am aware of the logs, just not interested in reading it all if nothing occurred here.
20090407 13:49:39< Espreon> Polarina: Oh, OK.
20090407 13:50:09< Polarina> :)
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20090407 13:59:02< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34604 /trunk/CMakeLists.txt: 
20090407 13:59:02< CIA-30> more changes for installation of desktop files:
20090407 13:59:02< CIA-30> * desktop file installation not needed on apple and cygwin
20090407 13:59:02< CIA-30> * use the correct Exec= entry and not the default for the .desktop files (since this can be changed via prefix/suffix)
20090407 13:59:13< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34605 /branches/1.6/CMakeLists.txt: 
20090407 13:59:13< CIA-30> more changes for installation of desktop files:
20090407 13:59:13< CIA-30> * desktop file installation not needed on apple and cygwin
20090407 13:59:13< CIA-30> * use the correct Exec= entry and not the default for the .desktop files (since this can be changed via prefix/suffix)
20090407 14:01:14< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: what do you think, should the name of the .desktop file depend on the prefix/suffix, too?
20090407 14:02:20< Shadow_Master> freim: souunds like a plan, if you can catch him :-)
20090407 14:02:23< Crab_> Ivanovic: IMO, yes, if the person installs two copies of wesnoth, one of them with a suffix, he'd probably want two different .desktop files, not one.
20090407 14:02:45< Ivanovic> Crab_: the problem is that the "name" string will be identical for both
20090407 14:02:58< Ivanovic> since there is no easy way to update all the languages
20090407 14:04:12< Crab_> Ivanovic: can't it be solved ?
20090407 14:04:22< Crab_> Ivanovic: to make "name" different, too
20090407 14:04:46< Ivanovic> Crab_: open icons/wesnoth.desktop in a text editor
20090407 14:05:01< Ivanovic> you will see name localised into many languages, too
20090407 14:05:20< Crab_> Ivanovic: can't we put a template there ?
20090407 14:05:28< Ivanovic> it is not this easy to "correctly" update the string for all langs, doing so for the original would be dead eqasy
20090407 14:05:53< Crab_> something like: Battle for Wesnoth $suffix
20090407 14:06:02< Ivanovic> there is no easy way to do so
20090407 14:06:15< Ivanovic> since these files are not only used in the cmake recipe but also for autotools and scons
20090407 14:06:18< Crab_> sed ?
20090407 14:06:33< Ivanovic> and at least autotools are *not* touching the file(s) at all, just copying it over
20090407 14:08:43< Ivanovic> in general it should be no problem to add the prefix and suffix to all Name*= entries
20090407 14:08:54< Ivanovic> it might just end in a really strange way for some files
20090407 14:09:03< Ivanovic> s/files/languages
20090407 14:09:36< Crab_> Ivanovic: why 'strange way' ?
20090407 14:09:41< Ivanovic> (especially for nonsense or "technical" prefixes/suffixes)
20090407 14:09:51< Ivanovic> imagine someone using the prefix 'test'
20090407 14:10:04< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: I don't know whether the name of .desktop file matters much. It would be logical to add the same suffix to it as to executable IMO.
20090407 14:10:23< Ivanovic> the result for eg czech would be: Name[cs]=test Bitva o Wesnoth
20090407 14:10:58< Ivanovic> sure, a version suffix will most likely work, it will get really strange for prefixes
20090407 14:11:20< Crab_> Ivanovic: can't we use a prefix as a suffix ?
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20090407 14:11:33< Crab_> Ivanovic:   Bitva o Wesnoth (test,1.7)
20090407 14:11:43< Ivanovic> hmm, yeah, this could work
20090407 14:11:44< Crab_> Ivanovic: and make them show up *only* if they differ from default value...
20090407 14:12:16< Ivanovic> bbs
20090407 14:18:30< Crab_> Ivanovic: so, for example, someone will get either  "Bitva o Wesnoth" or    "Bitva o Wesnoth 1.7"  or "Bitva o Wesnoth 1.7 (test)" - depending on prefix/suffix he used.
20090407 14:25:20< Ivanovic> currently i am thinking more along the lines of "Bitva o Wesnoth", "Bitva o Wesnoth (1.7)", "Bitva o Wesnoth (test)" or "Bitva o Wesnoth (test, 1.7)"
20090407 14:25:39< Crab_> Ivanovic: yes, something like this. Whatever is better )
20090407 14:26:33< Crab_> It will be a good thing to make it just 'Bitva o Wesnoth' for default-settings users. And those who play with suffixes/prefixes will get what they deserve :)
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20090407 14:30:04< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: Are there many people who both use suffixes and want working shortcuts, anyway? :)
20090407 14:31:22< loonycyborg> s/shortcuts/desktop entries
20090407 14:31:23< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: most likely not, but why not have it in ;)
20090407 14:31:35< Crab_> loonycyborg: a packager for some specific OS may set a suffix, and the person using that OS may be unaware of that and just want working desktop entry :)
20090407 14:32:16< loonycyborg> Crab_: Then the packager probably will adjust his desktop file accordingly.
20090407 14:32:26< Ivanovic> i think the suffix is rather commonly used, the prefix most likely not
20090407 14:32:31< Crab_> loonycyborg: probably.
20090407 14:32:37< Ivanovic> but having several versions work ain't a bad thing
20090407 14:33:37< loonycyborg> My concern is that those regexes may cause annoying problems once more complex stuff is added to the desktop file.
20090407 14:34:51< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: did you get my /msg btw?
20090407 14:35:01< Shadow_Master> (hours ago, while I was sleeping, you should've seen it)
20090407 14:35:11< Ivanovic> yes
20090407 14:36:00< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: that is why i would like to use a regexp that only matches the Name*= lines and "just" adds something at the end of them
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20090407 15:11:59< freim> zookeeper: tried to make them a bit less blue and add some barren patches so the mountains don't look like they are made of ice :)
20090407 15:12:11< freim> zookeeper: what do you think? http://feathers.os-tr.net/~hogne/snowtest3.png
20090407 15:12:22< freim> don't think I will add more grey/brownish now
20090407 15:13:30< Polarina> Wow!
20090407 15:13:32< Polarina> Awesome!
20090407 15:14:14 * Polarina would suggest a few more variations.
20090407 15:14:36< Espreon> freim: You are doing a great job with the snow mountains. :)
20090407 15:15:51< freim> thanks
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20090407 15:16:05< freim> Polarina: I will make a snow variant of all the normal mountain variants
20090407 15:16:23< Polarina> Cool.
20090407 15:16:47< Polarina> freim: Keep up the <strike>good</strike> awesome work! :D
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20090407 15:17:39< YogiHH> Polarina: he did that for a couple of years now ;-)
20090407 15:18:13< freim> I'm slow, but steady ;)
20090407 15:18:41< freim> blame WoW
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20090407 15:20:06< Polarina> Haha...
20090407 15:26:35< CIA-30> hogne * r34606 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/ (6 files): Color tweaks
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20090407 16:25:51< CIA-30> esr * r34607 /trunk/data/tools/wmllint: 
20090407 16:25:51< CIA-30> Feature for ShadowMaster and Espreon: "#wmllint: notecheck off"
20090407 16:25:51< CIA-30> suppresses error from traits wilth no matching notes. "#wmllint: notecheck off"
20090407 16:25:51< CIA-30> re-enables this check.
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20090407 16:39:08 * fendrin wonders if the stacking of healing was disabled intentionaly.
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20090407 16:54:54< fendrin> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13342
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20090407 17:04:23< Reisiger> fendrin: Just wondering, couldn't that be preferred behaviour? (As in 'healing takes it's time')
20090407 17:04:50< loonycyborg> fendrin: Healing 4 points would be most logical there.
20090407 17:05:55< loonycyborg> If stacking of healing from two shamans were allowed then why not allow stacking of 3,4,5 or 6 shamans?
20090407 17:06:20< fendrin> But healing stacked to a maximum of 8 since I can remember.
20090407 17:06:40< loonycyborg> It got fixed apparently :)
20090407 17:07:15< fendrin> But it's not mentioned in the changelog. And there was no discussion about it, was there?
20090407 17:07:38-!- ikarius [n=ross@216.27.182.3] has quit []
20090407 17:07:48< fendrin> At least all the multiplayer devs should have been informed.
20090407 17:09:02< fendrin> This breaks balancing in my campaigns for example.
20090407 17:10:49-!- henning__ [n=henning@ini-firewall.unizh.ch] has quit []
20090407 17:10:57< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34608 /trunk/CMakeLists.txt: 
20090407 17:10:57< CIA-30> add a prefix and suffix to installed .desktop files
20090407 17:10:57< CIA-30> some experiments for adding the prefix/suffix behind the Name.*=.* expression, so far not successfull and thus commented out
20090407 17:11:13< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34609 /branches/1.6/CMakeLists.txt: 
20090407 17:11:13< CIA-30> add a prefix and suffix to installed .desktop files
20090407 17:11:13< CIA-30> some experiments for adding the prefix/suffix behind the Name.*=.* expression, so far not successfull and thus commented out
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20090407 17:19:00< Reisiger> fendrin: isn't it that some units can heal 8 HP?
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20090407 17:31:52< fendrin> Reisiger: Yes, some units can heal 8 HP.
20090407 17:32:49< fendrin> zookeeper2: healing used to stach up to 8hp, didn't it?
20090407 17:32:59< fendrin> s/stach/stack
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20090407 17:58:19< Reisiger> From what I see when taking a look at the healing calculation (actions.cpp 1679), it seems only one healing is applied.
20090407 18:02:21< Reisiger> fendrin: Have you tried healing a unit with each a healer next to it giving 4 and 8 HP?
20090407 18:04:13< fendrin> Reisiger: no
20090407 18:04:56< Reisiger> I'm still getting used to C++, but I am not sure if in that case always 8 HP would get healed.
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20090407 18:09:12-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.6.1 planned for Sunday, April 12th, stringfreeze for branches/1.6 ! | Summer of Code info: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 55 bugs, 232 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090407 18:09:58< Crab_> Reisiger: that healing calculation is quite evil :) 
20090407 18:10:33< Reisiger> Yep... is get_composite_value() reading the highest value out of a list?
20090407 18:12:16< Gauteamus> What is the easiest way to unlock all units/descriptions?
20090407 18:13:12< Crab_> Reisiger: see ./src/unit_abilities.cpp +903 
20090407 18:15:12< Reisiger> Thanks :) I'll have a look-see
20090407 18:15:25< Crab_> Reisiger: basically, for non-stacking values,  it is "get highest of base values, add all additional values, multiply by all %-multiplier's"
20090407 18:17:43< Reisiger> Thanks :) So it does read out the highest healer next to the unit.
20090407 18:19:47< Reisiger> So as only one healer gets a go at a woundet unit... is this now a bug or an undocumented feature? o_O
20090407 18:21:22< Crab_> Reisiger:  http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/wesnoth/branches/1.6/doc/manual/manual.en.html#_healing
20090407 18:22:38< Crab_> Reisiger:  so, it is not documented explicitly
20090407 18:23:09< Reisiger> Well in this case it's a feature :)
20090407 18:23:21< Crab_> Reisiger: then document it :)
20090407 18:23:23< Reisiger> but I can't find it in the changelog
20090407 18:23:43< Crab_> Reisiger: svn blame actions.cpp :)
20090407 18:23:45< fendrin> zookeeper2: Is there a way to store all units that can see a certain unit through fog of war into an array?
20090407 18:24:42 * Reisiger sets the turtle lose to find the change
20090407 18:28:45< Reisiger> Found it: Revision 10817  27.Mar.2006
20090407 18:33:28< fendrin> Reisiger: Oh, that old.
20090407 18:33:38< fendrin> Reisiger: I am right behind the time.
20090407 18:33:53< Crab_> wesbot: log 10817
20090407 18:33:56< wesbot> rusty * r10817 : Simplify healing as per multiple discussions: no limit of hitpoints per cure/heal, heal at start of healer turn.
20090407 18:34:03< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=10817
20090407 18:34:46< fendrin> no limit? what limit?
20090407 18:35:45< Crab_> it seems that before that healer was only able to heal 1 unit per turn...
20090407 18:36:04< Crab_> or something like that.. see the diff for actions.cpp
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20090407 18:39:05< benetnash> hi! how value null is treated in fai in arithmetic expressions? it seems, that in "asd + 1" asd = 0 but in "asd < 3" asd = -infinity. Am I right?
20090407 18:39:39< benetnash> because null is smaller than anything but null + 1 = 1
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20090407 18:45:44< zookeeper2> freim, a bit late, but...looks good to me. i'd almost wish for a bit more of those bare patches since they're now very few, but i'm not sure how hard that'd be to do or whether it'd be worth the trouble.
20090407 18:46:15< Crab_> benetnash: I'll check now
20090407 18:46:17< zookeeper2> fendrin, no, that's how healing has always worked IIRC
20090407 18:46:53-!- zookeeper2 is now known as zookeeper
20090407 18:47:34< zookeeper> fendrin, and no, no way to store all units that can see a certain unit through fog of war. you can only filter for units which are visible to a certain side.
20090407 18:49:59 * fendrin feels stupid.
20090407 18:50:29< fendrin> zookeeper: That is a very annoying thing.
20090407 18:50:35< zookeeper> urgh, that log message reminds me of healing used to work, with a silly limit on how many HP a healer could heal in total during one turn and the game distributing those "evenly" amongst adjacent wounded units :x horror.
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20090407 18:52:23< loonycyborg> Yes. I remember that too,
20090407 18:53:25< loonycyborg> I don't know for sure how exactly healing HPs were distributed.
20090407 18:54:08< loonycyborg> Current system adheres to KISS much better.
20090407 18:54:34< zookeeper> oh yes
20090407 18:55:26< Crab_> benetnash: ok, I've looked at it
20090407 18:55:56< Crab_> benetnash: firstly, formula functions use a special type called variant, to store arguments values
20090407 18:56:25< Crab_> benetnash: that type,  in src/variant.cpp , defines all operations, such as + - *  > < >= <=, etc..
20090407 18:59:21< Crab_> benetnash: <= is defined on ad-hoc basic
20090407 18:59:44< Crab_> benetnash: and the rest of comparison operations derive from it
20090407 19:00:18< Crab_> benetnash: '+' and '-' work by casting variant as int, so NULL is 0 in this operations
20090407 19:04:37< Crab_> benetnash: and in boolean context, NULL is false.
20090407 19:04:50< Crab_> benetnash: anything else you would like to know ?
20090407 19:06:26< fendrin> wesnoth_trunk: src/unit_map.hpp:113: typename iter_types::pointer_type unit_map::iterator_base<iter_policy, iter_types>::operator->() const [with iter_policy = unit_map::unit_policy, iter_types = unit_map::const_iter_types]: Assertion `policy_.valid(i_, map_) && "Attempt to dereference invalid iterator"' failed.
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20090407 19:09:40< benetnash> Crab_: thank you. It's exactly as I thought but i want to be sure
20090407 19:13:46< Crab_> benetnash: and, if you do not agree with current NULL handling (there are reasons to say that it is wrong - for example, NULL<-1, but NULL+1>-1+1  ), feel free to submit a bugreport :)
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20090407 19:18:01< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: do new campaigns for mainline need to be in WesCamp-i18n already before merging?
20090407 19:19:09-!- mordante [n=mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 19:20:02< mordante> hi
20090407 19:20:23< benetnash> Crab_: IMO it's all right - It's much better then strongly typed languages. All in all formula AI is the first declarative language I ever met that is useful ;)
20090407 19:20:48< Crab_> ))
20090407 19:21:01< Shadow_Master> hallo mordante 
20090407 19:21:06< mordante> hi Shadow_Master 
20090407 19:21:08< Crab_> hello mordante
20090407 19:21:11< mordante> hi Crab_ 
20090407 19:21:34< shikadibot> hi mordante 
20090407 19:21:54< mordante> hi shikadibot 
20090407 19:22:15 * mordante wonders why he's greeted by a bot ;-)
20090407 19:22:49 * Shadow_Master shall let mordante die with the question at the top of his head ;-)
20090407 19:23:55 * mordante won't wonder about it too long :-P
20090407 19:25:31< crimson_penguin> http://codepad.org/vL0YqiRW - this doesn't seem to work
20090407 19:25:43< crimson_penguin> in data/core/hotkeys.cfg
20090407 19:26:41< crimson_penguin> it seems to always be cmd+p anyway
20090407 19:27:16< crimson_penguin> I wanna change it because cmd+, is the standard preferences command on Mac, and cmd+p is print, so it's rather confusing
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20090407 19:48:16< Soliton> dfranke: there is not much useful info in that report. the server does not emit the quoted error message so it's either a client side error or i need to know the actual error message.
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20090407 19:51:51< Ivanovic> Shadow_Master: this would make my life a whole lot easier
20090407 19:51:59< Ivanovic> (the campaign being in wescamp)
20090407 19:52:35< Ivanovic> and IIRC DM is/was already in wescamo
20090407 19:52:41< Ivanovic> s/wescamo/wescamp
20090407 19:52:52< Ivanovic> so at least some strings can probably be converted
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20090407 20:11:58< mordante> esr, regarding r34575 why is Chantal not allowed to die, isn't DM before Httt?
20090407 20:13:30< benetnash> Crab_: is there any check is_null in formula AI, or some function like coalesce in sql?
20090407 20:14:12< benetnash> the second option would be better ;)
20090407 20:14:42< esr> mordante: Storyline.  In the new version of history Delfador is too attached to her to just run off and leave her to be hacked to death by orcs.
20090407 20:15:45< mordante> esr, IMO it's a bad idea to make a unit death a defeat if you can't protect that unit
20090407 20:16:45< mordante> especially since it's the first scenario in Httt, which is an introduction campaign
20090407 20:16:56< Shadow_Master> Ivanovic: was, long ago.
20090407 20:17:13< esr> mordante: Ordinarily, I agree.  But the location of he keep and the way the battle ususually flows in that scenario means the orcs are highly unlikely to do her in in 12 turns - she has her own troops.
20090407 20:17:27< Shadow_Master> I'm guessing that less than the 5% of its strings are possible to convert
20090407 20:18:06< Crab_> benetnash: I'll take a look...
20090407 20:18:15< mordante> esr, I know it's highly unlikely, but really frustrating if it happens. Does the unit in Httt really need to be chantal, can't it be some other elf?
20090407 20:18:32< loonycyborg> esr: mordante: Why not make her disappear in a puff of smoke instead of death? :P
20090407 20:19:21< esr> mordante: It could be.  We'd lose a couple of nice bits of story continuity that way, though.
20090407 20:19:23< Shadow_Master> esr: I have seen orcs kill her in HttT 1 at least a dozen times
20090407 20:19:26< Shadow_Master> :p
20090407 20:19:42< esr> I've never seen it happen at all.
20090407 20:19:53< Shadow_Master> because you suck a bit less than me, only a bit less
20090407 20:19:58< Shadow_Master> :p
20090407 20:20:30< Shadow_Master> (note for self: challenge esr, loonycyborg and mordante in a 2vs2)
20090407 20:20:37< esr> We cpuld do zookeeper's thing atnd FOCE_CHANCE_TO_HIT, I suppose.
20090407 20:20:55< fendrin> esr: give her passive_leader=yes and every enemy ai an [avoid] around her keep. That will prevent her from die. remove the extra scenario objective.
20090407 20:21:11< mordante> in that case I feel more for loonycyborg's idea and make her retreat when facing death and take her units with her
20090407 20:21:22< mordante> and of course add some storyline around it
20090407 20:21:36< esr> Storyline's already theree.
20090407 20:21:56< esr> fendrin's idea would be pretty easy.
20090407 20:22:04< mordante> storyline around the retreat ;-)
20090407 20:22:07< zookeeper> and yes, as i said before, please don't put a loss condition there which will seem completely arbitrary to the player.
20090407 20:22:18< mordante> but fendrin's idea also work for me
20090407 20:22:29< esr> I'll do it.
20090407 20:22:30< Shadow_Master> IIRC AI units will attack an [avoid] hex in order to defeat an enemy leader
20090407 20:22:33< mordante> thanks
20090407 20:22:38< Shadow_Master> *NOT* sure IRC
20090407 20:22:55< mordante> that would be a bug 
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20090407 20:23:47< mordante> fendrin, I love the commit message of r34590 :-P
20090407 20:24:42< fendrin> wesbot: log 34590
20090407 20:24:43< wesbot> fendrin * r34590 : LoW 7: Added useless eye candy.
20090407 20:24:43< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=34590
20090407 20:24:46< esr> Hm, will a passive leader step aside tp let player use its keep?
20090407 20:24:54< Shadow_Master> there was a better one from him some time ago.
20090407 20:25:06< Shadow_Master> r33390 :)
20090407 20:25:10< fendrin> esr: I think so.
20090407 20:25:43< fendrin> wesbot: log 33390
20090407 20:25:43< wesbot> fendrin * r33390 : LoW 3,7: Did a degree on polishing this fucking map.
20090407 20:25:46< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=33390
20090407 20:25:56< Shadow_Master> fendrin, esr . No idea, but it doesn't sound like the AI could ever guess a player needs their keep...
20090407 20:27:32< fendrin> Shadow_Master: The does move to let the player use the keep.
20090407 20:27:37< fendrin> *ai
20090407 20:27:58< Shadow_Master> an astonishing discovery
20090407 20:28:03< Crab_> esr: passive leader will not move to let the player use the keep.
20090407 20:28:21 * Shadow_Master has faith in Crab_ 
20090407 20:28:43< Shadow_Master> Crab_: can you possibly fix that ? :-P (jk of course, what we need is probably a formula)
20090407 20:28:47 * Crab_ has faith in src/ai.cpp:1119
20090407 20:28:57< Crab_> a formula will be better
20090407 20:29:07-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
20090407 20:29:19< Crab_> and what's needed ?
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20090407 20:31:59< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34610 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth/id.po wesnoth-editor/id.po): updated Indonesian translation
20090407 20:32:07< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34611 /branches/1.6/po/ (wesnoth/id.po wesnoth-editor/id.po): updated Indonesian translation
20090407 20:34:30< Ivanovic> Shadow_Master: generating new files is nto this difficult either, but i prefer to reuse existing files that already include strings
20090407 20:34:49< esr> Crab_: We need passive-leader allies to shift whe player is adjacent to the keep.
20090407 20:34:54< YogiHH> dfranke: ping
20090407 20:35:28< dfranke> YogiHH: pong
20090407 20:35:48< YogiHH> dfranke: you were doing that save_blocker code, right?
20090407 20:35:54< dfranke> YogiHH: yes
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20090407 20:36:41< Reisiger> Good evening :)
20090407 20:36:52< YogiHH> dfranke: i am not very happy with including play_controller.hpp in the savegame code. I feel it does not belong into there at all and introduces more unneeded dependencies.
20090407 20:37:15< YogiHH> dfranke: do you have an idea how to avoid that?
20090407 20:37:35< Crab_> esr: and you would also like the leader to return to the keep on the next turn, if the keep is free ?
20090407 20:37:56< dfranke> YogiHH: sure, I could replace the method pointer with a generic function pointer, I suppose, and just create a wraper function.
20090407 20:38:16< dfranke> YogiHH: it would end up slightly Rube Goldbergy that way, though.
20090407 20:38:55< YogiHH> dfranke: i think putting it into the play_controller code might fit better
20090407 20:38:57< dfranke> or I could just move the whole thing into its own module.
20090407 20:39:04< YogiHH> or that, yes
20090407 20:39:28< esr> Crab_: Yes.
20090407 20:39:35< YogiHH> dfranke: but please wait until my next commit, before you start doing that
20090407 20:39:46< dfranke> YogiHH: I'm at work now anyway
20090407 20:39:50< dfranke> YogiHH: I'll move it this evening.
20090407 20:39:55< YogiHH> i see
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20090407 20:46:29< CIA-30> jhinrichs * r34612 /trunk/src/ (11 files): 
20090407 20:46:29< CIA-30> Savegame code goes OO...
20090407 20:46:29< CIA-30> Further optimizing the save_game functionality. I gave this quite some testing
20090407 20:46:29< CIA-30> and i'd like to give it a little more, but i fear i am going to drown deeply
20090407 20:46:29< CIA-30> into update conflicts, then (it's already getting hairy atm). Still not polished
20090407 20:46:29< CIA-30> but should be working quite nicely already. Documentation will come soon.
20090407 20:48:38< Shadow_Master> OOhhh! :-)
20090407 20:48:55 * Shadow_Master restrains from playtesting trunk for a few days
20090407 20:50:07< Crab_> esr: a proposed 'quick' solution A: introduce a new [ai] config variable which will make leader do this (at start of turn - move to keep if it is free, recruit, and give way to allied leaders, but no other moves/desperate attacks/retreats/etc), and hack C++ code a bit to make it work. a proposed 'quick' solution B: add formula_ai to the mix and write a few formula ai functions  to do those two things (move to keep if free, give way to allied lead
20090407 20:50:10-!- isaac_ is now known as isaac
20090407 20:50:24< Ivanovic> Crab_: which irc client are you using?
20090407 20:50:36< Ivanovic> that is: you tend to write really long lines and often something is left out
20090407 20:50:52< esr> Crab_: Reasonable.
20090407 20:51:03-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@66-189-40-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 20:51:06< Ivanovic> some clients have an option to automatically split messages that are too long for a single line (eg konversation is able to do so, others, too)
20090407 20:51:35< Crab_> Ivanovic: (pidgin) yes, but in this case it doesn't matter much ( only 4 symbols lost )
20090407 20:52:00< Ivanovic> short term solution: split your messages more often
20090407 20:52:00< CIA-30> esr * r34613 /trunk/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/ (scenarios/01_The_Elves_Besieged.cfg utils/deaths.cfg): 
20090407 20:52:00< CIA-30> Revert Chantal's death to no longer being a loss condition, but try to
20090407 20:52:00< CIA-30> prevent it in a sneaky way.
20090407 20:52:02< Ivanovic> ;)
20090407 20:52:50< CIA-30> fendrin * r34614 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/03_Stirring_in_the_Night.cfg: Fixed a misspelled shroud attribute.
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20090407 20:54:06< Crab_> esr: what of those 'quick' solutions - (A) or (B) do you prefer ? I prefer (A), since in it there is no need to rewrite something, there's only need to alter flow control a bit.
20090407 20:56:22< Gauteamus> esr: are there large rewrites of HTTT ahead, or only minor corrections? (false dichotomy)
20090407 20:56:51< Gauteamus> asking as a long sleeping translator, wondering where to begin :-)
20090407 20:58:31< Ivanovic> Gauteamus: just work on branches/1.6
20090407 20:58:42< Ivanovic> there are no string changes beside "tiny fixes" planned there
20090407 20:59:10< Gauteamus> ok, hehe, thanks for diplomatic advice
20090407 20:59:14< Ivanovic> completing this is the best thing to do as short term solution
20090407 20:59:32< Ivanovic> and, of course, update to 1.6 will be ported to trunk
20090407 20:59:35< Gauteamus> yes, agreed
20090407 20:59:43-!- Sapient [n=patrickp@wesnoth/developer/sapient] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 20:59:55< Ivanovic> those relying on trunk are insane anyway
20090407 20:59:56< Ivanovic> ;)
20090407 21:00:28< Sapient> Reisiger / Crab_ : there is a NotSoEasy coding task related to a further simplification of allied healing
20090407 21:01:48< Sapient> wesnoth.org/wiki/NotSoEasyCoding
20090407 21:03:12< Sapient> most of the users seemed pretty content with the current algorithm, though
20090407 21:03:24< Sapient> so it has been a low priority
20090407 21:06:53< Reisiger> Sapient: I'm still getting into coding (and more importantly reading) C++. I'll give it a look-see :)
20090407 21:12:04< Ivanovic> Reisiger: better start with an easy coding task then
20090407 21:12:21< Crab_> Reisiger: it would be nice if someone'd actually rewritten that 170-line mess with healing calculations in a sane way)
20090407 21:12:26< Ivanovic> those are by far better suited to get into the code base if you are not too firm with c++
20090407 21:13:29< Reisiger> I don't mind giving it a go. Had some fun a while ago coding a 'mess' in nwscript for a nwn2 server about resting and healing :)
20090407 21:14:32< Ivanovic> you know, parts of the wesnoth code are close to the definition of a mess
20090407 21:14:44< Crab_> Reisiger: IMO,  it would be good thing to split that calculations into two separate parts: 1) get the situation    2) do the hp/state changes
20090407 21:15:40< Reisiger> Was my thought aswell. I'll dig into the code a bit.
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20090407 21:28:21< Reisiger> Sapient: Do you have time to PM about your simplification proposal?
20090407 21:28:32-!- zookeeper [n=l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
20090407 21:28:42< Sapient> I am partially here
20090407 21:28:49< Sapient> no promises
20090407 21:28:56< Reisiger> Ok :)
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20090407 21:29:41< fendrin> wesnoth_trunk: src/unit_map.hpp:113: typename iter_types::pointer_type unit_map::iterator_base<iter_policy, iter_types>::operator->() const [with iter_policy = unit_map::unit_policy, iter_types = unit_map::const_iter_types]: Assertion `policy_.valid(i_, map_) && "Attempt to dereference invalid iterator"' failed. This is bad.
20090407 21:33:10< Crab_> fendrin: can you give a 'how-to-reproduce' ?
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20090407 21:35:13< silene> hi
20090407 21:35:20< Crab_> hi silene
20090407 21:37:13< CIA-30> jhinrichs * r34615 /trunk/src/ (5 files): 
20090407 21:37:13< CIA-30> Savegame reorganization Step 1: Providing a simpler interface to saving and loading.
20090407 21:37:13< CIA-30> Move start-of-scenario save into the new savegame architecture.
20090407 21:37:17< YogiHH> hello silene
20090407 21:37:37< dfranke> fendrin: that looks familiar...
20090407 21:38:09< YogiHH> silene: I have seen that you are removing all the pointer stuff from the config class (which i very much appreciate). Can you tell me what the high-level goal of this is?
20090407 21:38:20< dfranke> fendrin: I fixed a bug in the formula AI along those lines... there are probably others similar.  Check the bug tracker for a bug reported by seahen and assigned to me.
20090407 21:38:48< fendrin> dfranke: please make it go away. It prevents me from starting low scenario 19.
20090407 21:39:13< dfranke> fendrin: ok, on my list for after work.
20090407 21:39:31< fendrin> Crab_: start low and cl to scenario 19. It crashes after the story.
20090407 21:39:37< dfranke> fendrin: file it and assign it to me.
20090407 21:40:17< fendrin> dfranke: okay
20090407 21:41:40< silene> YogiHH: not sure what you mean by high level; there is a long term goal, which is to have a better config system, for instance a garbage-collected one; but the patch was mostly there to get rid of some segfaulting constructs like "*cfg.child" or ugly constructs like "(*ptr)[]"
20090407 21:42:09< YogiHH> ah, i see, that is what i wanted to know
20090407 21:45:47< dfranke> fendrin: I bet I can guess what's happening...
20090407 21:46:14< fendrin> dfranke: In that scenario is some map mask wml magic.
20090407 21:46:32< dfranke> fendrin: there's probably a FAI expression referring to an NPC who doesn't exist because you CLed.
20090407 21:46:57< Crab_> dfranke: yes, it is attempting to recall something...
20090407 21:47:53< Crab_> dfranke: a backtrace of it: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m210cbc0c
20090407 21:48:02< fendrin> dfranke: right, I cled.
20090407 21:48:34< fendrin> dfranke: and that scenario has some hack with no_leader=yes
20090407 21:48:37-!- JW1 [n=X@c-71-57-85-168.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 21:49:45< dfranke> all of that code seems very naive wrt to erroneous WML / formulas.
20090407 21:50:09< dfranke> one of our SoC students working on the FAI should probably clean it up.
20090407 21:52:28< dfranke> anyway, done with lunch, need to get back to work.  bbl.
20090407 21:52:36< Crab_> dfranke: it is not erroneus formulas. it's mostly C++ code that assumes that something (eg, pointers to unit) will not change after an event fires
20090407 21:53:17< gabm> YogiHH: Sapient's healing simplification proposal interests me. It might be listed in the "notSoEasyCoding", but it sounds more interesting to me than hunting a bug all over the source code - as you suggested I do as a patch the other day
20090407 21:53:52< YogiHH> gabm: sure, np, pick whatever you like to do
20090407 21:54:34< gabm> YogiHH: alright - in any case I'll evaluate each task's difficulty before diving in
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20090407 21:55:43 * YogiHH has found that on first sight things looked pretty easy and the problems arose when he was too deep into stuff to find an easy way out ;-)
20090407 21:56:17< Sapient> yes, it may be harder (or easier) than it looks
20090407 21:56:40< Sapient> understanding what really needs to occur is the hard part I guess
20090407 21:57:19< Sapient> probably the worst part is when you factor poison into the mix
20090407 21:58:04< Sapient> if I cure you of poison then I shouldn't heal you for the rest of that round... according to the current laws of gameplay
20090407 22:00:25< Sapient> but preserving that mechanic could complicate the simplification significantly
20090407 22:00:32< Sapient> therein lies the challenge
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20090407 22:03:04< CIA-30> mordante * r34616 /trunk/src/gamestatus.cpp: Remove an unused function.
20090407 22:03:06< CIA-30> mordante * r34617 /trunk/src/savegame.cpp: Initialize all members in the proper order.
20090407 22:03:08< CIA-30> mordante * r34618 /trunk/src/savegame.hpp: Comment out an unused parameter.
20090407 22:03:10< CIA-30> mordante * r34619 /trunk/src/savegame.hpp: Add a virtual destructor.
20090407 22:03:32< mordante> YogiHH, FYI just did some changes to savegame.[c|h]pp
20090407 22:03:49< Reisiger> Sapient: Would it be possible to keep track of healing/curing by using two variable assigned to the woundet unit (counter for healing and the string for the poison status) and have them reset at the start of each turn? (healing counter=0, poison if cured = null)
20090407 22:04:10< Reisiger> *variables **wounded
20090407 22:04:40 * YogiHH checks
20090407 22:07:58< Crab_> Reisiger: you'll have a problem: Imagine a heal+8 , unit of side1 , and heal+4 unit of side2 which can cure poison. And imagine them standing near a wounded poisoned unit of side3 (side1,side2,side3=allies) What you'll do ?
20090407 22:09:29-!- cjhopman [n=chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 22:10:12< Reisiger> So at the start of any of the allies turn, cycle through the wounded/poisoned units and check for nearby healers... prioritise curing over healing.
20090407 22:11:00< Reisiger> in that case unit3 would be cured the first turn, and healed +8 the next turn
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20090407 22:12:07< Reisiger> You could omit any tracking variables that way... given it's possible to determine if a healer can also cure
20090407 22:12:32< Crab_> Reisiger: yes, that's another ability.
20090407 22:12:51< Crab_> Reisiger: heal+N (4,8) -  cure that number of hp OR stop poison for 1 turn.
20090407 22:13:10-!- fabi [n=fabi@f051106194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 22:13:43< Crab_> Reisiger: "curing" ability - heal poison (although no hp will be restored by healer on the turn that a unit will be cured of poison)
20090407 22:13:46< Reisiger> if poison is slowed, I assume no curing?
20090407 22:13:58< Crab_> Reisiger: no healing.
20090407 22:14:03< Crab_> from healer
20090407 22:14:05< Reisiger> ok.
20090407 22:15:26-!- Crab_ [n=Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20090407 22:15:39< YogiHH> mordante: thanks
20090407 22:16:24< mordante> no problem, just in case you do more changes you'd better svn up before it
20090407 22:16:45< CIA-30> jhinrichs * r34620 /trunk/src/ (6 files): 
20090407 22:16:45< CIA-30> Savegame reorganization Step 1: Providing a simpler interface to saving and loading.
20090407 22:16:45< CIA-30> Removing commented code.
20090407 22:16:54-!- ilor [n=user@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 22:17:16< Reisiger> Ok. The logic behind that is pretty straightforward... now to figure out how to implement it :) And Crab_ crashes o_O
20090407 22:17:39< mordante> I'm off night
20090407 22:17:53-!- mordante [n=mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit ["Leaving"]
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20090407 22:20:09< Reisiger> Crab_: " Ok. The logic behind that is pretty straightforward... now to figure out how to implement it :) And Crab_ crashes o_O"
20090407 22:20:44< Crab_> Reisiger: yes, i'd had to kill -9 some thingies in order to return here :)
20090407 22:20:52< Reisiger> ^^
20090407 22:21:00< JW1> could someone explain to me how the 'update addons' button works with respect to version umbering?
20090407 22:24:40< Reisiger> Crab_: I'll go write some pseudo-code :)
20090407 22:25:05< Crab_> Reisiger: good luck )
20090407 22:25:37< Crab_> Reisiger: and this change will alter game balance in regards to poison...
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20090407 22:40:47< CIA-30> crab * r34621 /trunk/src/actions.cpp: 
20090407 22:40:47< CIA-30> fixed bug #13345 - recruitment code assumed that the leader is present and still
20090407 22:40:47< CIA-30> in the same place after WML events firing. Fix is not perfect (may skip
20090407 22:40:47< CIA-30> recruitment animation in some edge cases, where it would fail assert before),
20090407 22:40:47< CIA-30> but to make it better would require significally more code changes.
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20090407 22:49:19< CIA-30> jhinrichs * r34622 /trunk/src/ (savegame.cpp savegame.hpp): 
20090407 22:49:19< CIA-30> Savegame reorganization Step 1: Providing a simpler interface to saving and loading.
20090407 22:49:19< CIA-30> Adding comments for savegame.hpp.
20090407 22:52:50-!- Elvish_Pillage2 [n=eli@66-189-40-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 22:55:44< zookeeper> esr, maybe you want to have a look at this: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24659
20090407 22:56:16< CIA-30> jhinrichs * r34623 /trunk/src/savegame.hpp: 
20090407 22:56:16< CIA-30> Savegame reorganization Step 1: Providing a simpler interface to saving and loading.
20090407 22:56:16< CIA-30> Move write_game_snapshot to a better place.
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20090407 23:00:24< Polarina> Yay! Simpler. :)
20090407 23:04:01-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@c-68-49-10-243.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20090407 23:07:27< YogiHH> anyone: do i have to place the doc-tool comments ( /** ) right in front of the corresponding member of can i place the into the same line afterwards as well?
20090407 23:07:47< YogiHH> s/place the/place them
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20090407 23:12:29< Reisiger> Crab_: Looking at what i've got so far in Pseudocode... the healing algorithm won't change 'much' in layout... (meaning the parts of the code)
20090407 23:12:50< CIA-30> jhinrichs * r34624 /trunk/src/savegame.hpp: 
20090407 23:12:50< CIA-30> Savegame reorganization Step 1: Providing a simpler interface to saving and loading.
20090407 23:12:50< CIA-30> Minor cleaning of the savegame interface.
20090407 23:14:30< Crab_> Reisiger: thats ok. just remember that there are interesting things in current code :)
20090407 23:15:28< Reisiger> Well, I consider it a great learning experience nontheless :)
20090407 23:15:45 * Reisiger goes for some food/drink
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20090407 23:21:16 * Reisiger is back and nibbles on his carrot
20090407 23:21:52< silene> YogiHH: /**< or //<
20090407 23:22:41< YogiHH> silene: so i can do that in the same line after the declaration?
20090407 23:22:49< silene> yes
20090407 23:23:02-!- boucman [n=rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090407 23:24:21< Ivanovic> time for me to head off to bed, n8
20090407 23:24:29< YogiHH> night Ivanovic 
20090407 23:25:11< boucman> hey all
20090407 23:25:50< Reisiger> Night.
20090407 23:26:09< Crab_> boucman: hi. you may want to review r34621 - i've fixed a small bug with recruiting, which caused a crash, it is related to recruiting animation you've added about a tenday ago. 
20090407 23:26:13< Crab_> Reisiger: night
20090407 23:26:31< boucman> will do, thx for pointing
20090407 23:26:39 * boucman is still catching up on the commit log
20090407 23:27:00< Reisiger> I'll make a reply in Sapient's post with what I have so far in pseudocode (as txt-attachment)
20090407 23:28:27-!- Reisiger [n=Reisiger@adsl-84-226-153-201.adslplus.ch] has quit ["Verlassend"]
20090407 23:31:05< boucman> Crab_: looks good, the better fix would be to "refresh" leader position, but that will do for the moment
20090407 23:33:19-!- zookeeper [n=l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20090407 23:33:19< Crab_> boucman: "refresh" leader position has its problems too - it would require repeating a 20-line chunk of the code - since there's 1) WML event in there which can teleport leader around,  2) a set of options to this function which will do the recruitment even without a leader
20090407 23:34:09< boucman> well, we can call recruit animation without leader too, by providing a null_location as the location IIRC
20090407 23:34:10< Crab_> boucman: so, it would require an extraction of an auxiliary function to find the leader, if he's needed
20090407 23:34:17< boucman> you might want to add that in the else branch
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20090407 23:34:58< Crab_> boucman: yes, it can be done, by converting into a nested if ...
20090407 23:35:20< Crab_> boucman: so, thats I've wanted to ask: is recruit animation useful without the leader ?
20090407 23:35:33< boucman> yes it is 
20090407 23:35:41< boucman> it will animate the recruited unit
20090407 23:35:53< boucman> (i.e the fade in or skeleton rising)
20090407 23:36:27< Crab_> good. i'll change a bit to do that
20090407 23:37:39< boucman> k, thx
20090407 23:37:49< Crab_> thanks to you )
20090407 23:38:26< boucman> (we have already a case were whe have leader less recruitements : WML caused recruitements
20090407 23:38:51< Crab_> boucman: this one was caused by wml :)
20090407 23:39:08< Crab_> it crashed LoW-19 on start :)
20090407 23:39:37< boucman> yes, but I meant that we already have the case of "no leader" when a recruit is caused by wml
20090407 23:40:38< Crab_> boucman: ok )
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20090407 23:44:47< CIA-30> jhinrichs * r34625 /trunk/src/ (gamestatus.cpp gamestatus.hpp savegame.cpp savegame.hpp): 
20090407 23:44:47< CIA-30> Savegame reorganization Step 1: Providing a simpler interface to saving and loading.
20090407 23:44:47< CIA-30> Move finish_save_game and extract_summary_data_from_save to savegame.cpp.
20090407 23:47:19< YogiHH> night everyone
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20090407 23:59:44< CIA-30> crab * r34626 /trunk/src/actions.cpp: slightly reworked r34621, after consultation with boucman, to play recruitment animation without the leader, if there is no good ptr to leader.
--- Log closed Wed Apr 08 00:00:39 2009