--- Log opened Thu Apr 16 00:00:06 2009
20090416 00:00:32< esr> Sure.  What's the status of the sve-popup patch?  Have you cleared a complete fix with YogiHH yet?
20090416 00:01:18< corn> we're working on it right now. reverting to the previous version seems to have worked without the original bug showing up (mysteriously)
20090416 00:04:20< YogiHH> corn: shoot, i fixed it over here and comitted by mistake with some other stuff yesterday :-)
20090416 00:04:42< corn> heh
20090416 00:04:42< YogiHH> corn: can you see what i changed in save_game_interactive?
20090416 00:06:52< corn> heh
20090416 00:06:53< corn> one line fix
20090416 00:06:59< YogiHH> yup
20090416 00:07:36< corn> YogiHH: ok, you can revert my change the
20090416 00:07:37< corn> n
20090416 00:08:03< YogiHH> it's a pretty counter-intuitive one, though, as you wouldn't expect to set interactive_ to false within a method called save_game_interactive :-P
20090416 00:09:12-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Summer of Code info: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 50 bugs, 234 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090416 00:09:15< corn> true
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20090416 00:10:35< corn> esr: ok, bug fixed
20090416 00:12:15< esr> corn: Has the fix been committed?
20090416 00:12:38< corn> no
20090416 00:13:10< esr> So, where is the patch?  Or is there a commit coming shortly?
20090416 00:13:47< corn> commit is coming shortly. yogihh actually patched the problem yesterday and commited but it requires reverting back the commit with my patch to work
20090416 00:14:11< esr> Ah, OK.  I'll look at the buglist.
20090416 00:15:35< YogiHH> corn, esr: commit will be there in a minute
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20090416 00:18:42< CIA-30> jhinrichs * r34954 /trunk/src/ (8 files): 
20090416 00:18:46< CIA-30> Savegame reorganization Step 1: Providing a simpler interface to saving and loading.
20090416 00:18:48< CIA-30> Move save_game_exists, open_save_game, delete_game, and get_saves_list from gamestatus.cpp to savegame.cpp. Setup a savegame_manager class to collect all those homeless functions. Fix bug #13364.
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20090416 00:19:55< corn> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13088
20090416 00:20:26< corn> not really sure what that refers to. there is no stop or play option in the games menu
20090416 00:20:46< esr> OK, marking Fixed.
20090416 00:20:56< esr> 13364., I mean.
20090416 00:21:08< esr> KLooking at 13088 now...
20090416 00:21:16< CIA-30> elias * r34955 /branches/1.6/data/tools/ (unit_tree/helpers.py wesnoth/wmlparser.py wmlunits): Added --ignore-fatal-errors option to wmlunits.
20090416 00:21:34< elias> Soliton: I advice against using this option
20090416 00:21:52< Soliton> ok.
20090416 00:21:52< elias> Soliton: so if you use it and everything blows up, it's not my fault :P
20090416 00:22:04< Crab_> YogiHH: did VC9 compile it ok ? were any changes required ?
20090416 00:22:11< YogiHH> corn: it only shows up for multiplayer
20090416 00:22:17< corn> YogiHH: ah, ok
20090416 00:22:45< YogiHH> Crab_: yup, it didn't create a folder to put the ai files into, but it compiles fine :-)
20090416 00:23:16< Crab_> YogiHH: good to know )
20090416 00:23:20< elias> Soliton: in path of summoners, there are things like this: "race=elemental_construct{TRAIT_CONSTRUCT}" which also the C++ parser doesn't handle
20090416 00:23:31< YogiHH> corn: i did this as a last minute fix. The reason the names are so short was simply that due to the string fix for 1.6 i couldn't come up with something better :-)
20090416 00:23:33< elias> so i saw no other way of "fixing" the problem...
20090416 00:23:38< esr> corn: You're right, no such animal.  Could he mean the stop/play button on replays?
20090416 00:23:43< YogiHH> corn: so feel free to change that if you want
20090416 00:23:51< corn> esr: yogi says it only happens in multiplayer
20090416 00:24:01< esr> Ah.
20090416 00:24:03< corn> still not sure how to replicate though
20090416 00:24:04< Soliton> elias: sure, that's fine.
20090416 00:24:11< corn> I created an mp game on the dev lobby and put in an AI computer
20090416 00:24:23< corn> an AI opponent*
20090416 00:24:24< YogiHH> corn: oh, i forgot, it is only for observers :-)
20090416 00:24:31< corn> lol
20090416 00:24:37< corn> what a headache to reproduce
20090416 00:25:16< corn> can you create a game in the mp lobby and I will observe?
20090416 00:25:27< YogiHH> sure
20090416 00:25:31< Soliton> i guess you didn't try to fix bugs where at least 3 clients are involved yet.
20090416 00:25:42< esr> corn: Have look at bug #13238: Menu to select control of a side after someone leaves results in failure.  Perhaps your chance to learen the MP code.
20090416 00:25:46< corn> nope, thankfully
20090416 00:26:35< corn> esr: ok
20090416 00:26:52< corn> Soliton: looks like I just got my first bug involving at least 3 clients
20090416 00:27:31< Soliton> :-)
20090416 00:28:37< corn> YogiHH: give me a minute, currently recompiling with latest revision
20090416 00:29:08 * YogiHH took that minute just before ;-)
20090416 00:30:30< YogiHH> Soliton: i seem to hang when connecting to the official server...
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20090416 00:32:13< YogiHH> Soliton: which is the address and port of the official dev server?
20090416 00:32:42< Soliton> there is none.
20090416 00:32:51< Soliton> trunk is wesnoth.org:15000
20090416 00:33:01< YogiHH> hmm, i am in now, seemed to be a problem with the username
20090416 00:33:16< YogiHH> Soliton: can you check the logs for that?
20090416 00:34:06< Soliton> you logged on to your account and left again.
20090416 00:34:17< corn> ok, I see a play and a stop option
20090416 00:35:58< teaser> Soliton: I'm working oon the save-game parser...
20090416 00:36:10< Soliton> cool.
20090416 00:36:20< teaser> ...question: is the order of the save-game always the same?
20090416 00:36:44< Soliton> yes.
20090416 00:36:52< teaser> ok, great! :D
20090416 00:37:11< Soliton> of course i can't be sure what you mean.
20090416 00:37:32< Soliton> and i would advise using a real WML parser.
20090416 00:38:51< teaser> ooh, are there real wml-parser out there? Where?
20090416 00:40:32< Soliton> there is one in perl under utils/ and one in python under data/tools/wesnoth/.
20090416 00:40:49< teaser> ok, thanks, I'll check them out
20090416 00:41:28< Soliton> tools are prefered in python nowadays but take your pick.
20090416 00:41:47< teaser> ah, right!
20090416 00:43:58< teaser> hm, maybe I should bug esr to write the parse-and-retrieve-info-bit I'm not really into python :)
20090416 00:44:17< teaser> esr, awake?
20090416 00:44:28< esr> Yes.
20090416 00:44:50< teaser> I'm trying to create a useful replay-archive, care to help?
20090416 00:45:57< teaser> basicly you'd have to use the python wml-parser to retrieve some info from a replay and store it into a db
20090416 00:46:10< teaser> (if you want to aid, ofc)
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20090416 00:46:53< alink> back, feel better (I had strangely completely forget to eat today)
20090416 00:47:03< karl_m> Crab_: Hi, you free?
20090416 00:47:49< Crab_> yes
20090416 00:48:54< karl_m> I dont know if you remember me, we talked a week or so ago about an --ai_config command line patch
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20090416 00:49:02< Crab_> yes, I remember
20090416 00:49:26< karl_m> Crab_: I put something on the patch manager recently
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20090416 00:49:41< karl_m> Crab_: Do you think you could look at it?
20090416 00:50:07 * Crab_ found it...
20090416 00:50:12< Crab_> yes, I'll look at it now
20090416 00:50:32< karl_m> Crab_: Thanks
20090416 00:51:11< karl_m> Crab_: I have to go to a class in about 10 mins so I'll be back online in about 2hrs or so. 9am for me :)
20090416 00:51:37< Crab_> ok. I'll leave a comment at the patch tracker
20090416 00:51:51< Crab_> 2am for me )
20090416 00:52:27< karl_m> Crab_: yowsa! thanks for checking it out
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20090416 00:56:23< corn> YogiHH: I think I've completed the FR. do you mind testing with me again?
20090416 00:56:35< YogiHH> corn: np
20090416 00:56:46< boucman> night all
20090416 00:56:50< corn> cya
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20090416 00:58:51< YogiHH> corn: uh, i segfaulted :/
20090416 00:58:59< YogiHH> corn: was that enough already?
20090416 00:59:02< corn> yes
20090416 00:59:15< corn> do you think the segfault was because of me?
20090416 01:01:05< YogiHH> corn: no, definitely not :-)
20090416 01:01:38< YogiHH> Crab_: are you familiar with ai_move::choose_move?
20090416 01:02:26< Crab_> YogiHH: sorts of.
20090416 01:02:56< YogiHH> Crab_: that one just segfaulted on me, line 705
20090416 01:02:58< Crab_> YogiHH: got a backtrace for that segfault ?
20090416 01:03:49< YogiHH> Crab_: because "best_route.steps" is of length 1, so best_route.steps.end() - 2 is not a vaild position
20090416 01:04:27< Crab_> YogiHH: pathfinding code was changed recently...
20090416 01:05:17< YogiHH> mmm, that might have to do with it. So do you think steps.length should always be bigger than 1?
20090416 01:05:30< Crab_> wait a sec...
20090416 01:05:52< corn> YogiHH: just to make sure, the stuff I am changing is in hotkeys.cpp . I am changing the value of the hidden_ parameter and it is not changing whether or not it appears on the menu
20090416 01:06:35< Crab_> YogiHH: well, IMO, that code *shouldn't* depend on steps.length 
20090416 01:06:47< YogiHH> corn: sorry, i didn't get that, can you rephrase?
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20090416 01:07:13< Crab_> YogiHH: I'll take a look at that piece of code and try to patch it to not do that "-2" when it is impossible.
20090416 01:07:17< corn> YogiHH: where is the code that controls the placement of Play and Stop in the menu? I assumed it was in hotkeys.cpp but I am doing changes in it and nothing is happening
20090416 01:07:43< YogiHH> corn: hehe, it's not code, it's WML config ;-)
20090416 01:08:13< corn> argh
20090416 01:08:14< corn> where is that
20090416 01:08:27< YogiHH> corn: i spend quite some time the first time i was looking for that :-). It's in data/themes/
20090416 01:09:27< corn> hm. I wonder what I was changing
20090416 01:09:41< YogiHH> Crab_: I have been dealing with that code before. I am not completely sure, but i *think*, this is the path for the best unit to attack the target, and the -2 is to not move it to the very end of it's path so other units can group around it to protect.
20090416 01:10:23< Crab_> YogiHH: imo, it's movement, not attacking
20090416 01:10:39< corn> YogiHH: macros.cfg:74 is around the right area?
20090416 01:11:14< YogiHH> Crab_: yes, it is, this code is dealing with the best route to get to the target
20090416 01:11:31 * YogiHH checks
20090416 01:11:41< alink> use  i+1 >= best_route.steps.end()-1 ?
20090416 01:12:27< Polarina> alink: That's the same as i + 2 >= best_route.steps.end()
20090416 01:12:42< alink> (instead of  i >= best_route.steps.end()-2)
20090416 01:12:51< YogiHH> corn, no, that's the replay buttons
20090416 01:12:59< alink> Polarina: yeah but without the segfault
20090416 01:13:02< YogiHH> corn: should be in default.cfg, i guess
20090416 01:13:35< Polarina> alink: How would that segfault?
20090416 01:13:52< alink> Polarina: i+2 will also segfault when i=steps.end()-1
20090416 01:14:00< Polarina> ....
20090416 01:14:11 * Polarina detects software bloat.
20090416 01:14:50< alink> Polarina: its a simple for-loop where i < steps.end()
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20090416 01:18:27< Crab_> alink: yes, that's probably the best way to go...
20090416 01:19:10< alink> at least, it allow to fix it without understanding this obscure code ;-p
20090416 01:19:27< Crab_> alink: there's nothing too obscure there ..
20090416 01:19:45< YogiHH> i'll leave this up to you and go to bed instead :-)
20090416 01:19:50< Crab_> it tries to find whether the route is dangerous..
20090416 01:19:56< YogiHH> good night everyone
20090416 01:20:05< alink> gn YogiHH
20090416 01:20:13< Crab_> and it does two checks, the second of that only on the last two steps of a move
20090416 01:20:17< Crab_> night YogiHH
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20090416 01:20:37< Crab_> the first check is basically "who is stronger at attacking this tile?"
20090416 01:20:41< alink> Crab_: which make this special case where route's length = 1 even more stupid :)
20090416 01:20:59< Crab_> alink: we can extract this special case out of the loop
20090416 01:21:48 * alink must check this power_projection thing to understand this part
20090416 01:22:25< Crab_> "power projection" is basically "how much firepower can be concentrated on attacking that specified tile"?
20090416 01:22:52< Crab_> so, " const double threat = power_projection(*i,enemy_dstsrc);" is *their* power projection
20090416 01:23:05< Crab_> power_projection(*i,fullmove_dstsrc) is our power projection
20090416 01:25:18< alink> that's always my problem with the AI code, I always check it bottom-up. I must one day try to follow a top-down way to have the big picture of what's going on at each point
20090416 01:25:51< Crab_> alink: basically, c++ AI is a big tail-recursive function
20090416 01:26:44< Crab_> alink:  ai::do_move() in src/ai/ai.cpp
20090416 01:28:11< alink> Crab_: that's seems indeed the best place to start, I can see all the different phases there
20090416 01:28:18< Crab_> it checks "can I do something?" in a number of phases (gotos, combat, villages, healing, leader/recruitment,...), and when it does something, it calls itself and returns after that
20090416 01:28:43< Crab_> so, it's a tail-recursion that is basically equivalent to a while loop
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20090416 01:31:35< alink> that doesn't seems very efficient, but probably complex enough to not add optimization there
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20090416 01:31:48< Crab_> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m56b2953a
20090416 01:32:21< Crab_> (that's that tail recursion rewritten as a loop)
20090416 01:32:33< Crab_>  it just need modularization. to make it possible to replace only a part of it. for example, replace recruitment
20090416 01:32:34< alink> yes indeed, it's equivalent 
20090416 01:33:40< Crab_> formula_ai uses another approach
20090416 01:34:17< alink> I am even more noobish with formula AI than with c++ AI  :-/ 
20090416 01:34:41< Crab_> alink: formula ai is two things - "candidate action evaluator" and "formula language"
20090416 01:35:31< Crab_> "candidate action evaluator" is, basically, "while (found_best_thing_to_do) { do_it(); find_another_best_thing_to_do_by_evaluating_formulas()}"
20090416 01:36:05< Crab_> so, it is a 'generalization' of default_ai, of sorts
20090416 01:36:42< Crab_> and "formula language" is just a small script domain specific language
20090416 01:36:53< alink> Crab_: You need to add these one-line explanations somewhere, they are useful :-)
20090416 01:37:34< Crab_> alink: yes, it's a good idea to document things...
20090416 01:37:39< alink> (for lazy people like me)
20090416 01:38:24< Crab_> alink: there's some stuff in the wiki, of course.
20090416 01:40:27< Crab_> alink: it would be all a lot easier and simpler, but there's a large collection of hacks therein....
20090416 01:43:31< alink> I suppose that at some point i will check the pathfinding part of formula AI, since it's one of my areas of expertise
20090416 01:44:40< Crab_> alink: you'll find lots of duplication there, i think )
20090416 01:45:23< Crab_> src/ai/formula_ai.cpp:1877 ( formula_ai::shortest_path_calculator )
20090416 01:46:02< Crab_> that's when it needs explicit shortest path
20090416 01:46:25< Crab_> and when it just moves units around, it delegates that to default ai (since formula_ai extends default ai)
20090416 01:47:15< alink> yes I will definitively need to check there too
20090416 01:47:46< corn> hey all, I am trying modify the display of items under the menu in game. where do I change whether or not an item is displayed?
20090416 01:48:01< corn> I know that it's listed in the WML
20090416 01:48:06< corn> but I want to do it dynamically in game
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20090416 01:50:21< alink> corn: maybe check how the context menu do it, because it add or not recruit item depending where you click
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20090416 01:51:06< alink> the menu button also display various load savegameX item
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20090416 01:52:33< corn> mm
20090416 01:52:50< CIA-30> crab * r34956 /trunk/src/ai/ai_move.cpp: Fixed segfault in ai grouping in the case that path length was <2
20090416 01:53:02< alink> just wild guess, but at least that seems possible to do
20090416 01:54:32< Crab_> alink: here's another comparison between default_ai and formula ai - http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m215bd69c
20090416 01:54:54< corn> alink: I think I got it, the relevant area was playmp_controller:598
20090416 01:54:55< corn> of all palces
20090416 01:56:11< alink> Crab_: it seems to show well why formula-AI is more flexible
20090416 01:56:36< Crab_> alink: yes. but its flexibility is not used well at the moment 
20090416 01:57:36< Crab_> alink: because there are some things that default ai can do well, but they cannot be used from formula ai at the moment.
20090416 01:58:08< Crab_> alink: because default ai is *monolitic* at the moment, and we cannot take 'one part' of it and reuse it from formula ai 
20090416 01:58:25< Crab_> alink: we can just 'fallback' from formula ai to default ai
20090416 01:58:42< corn> esr: just got down https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13088 , going to post patch now
20090416 01:58:49< alink> corn playmp_controller:597 is the last line. A joke ?
20090416 01:58:49< corn> I'll check out your bug now
20090416 01:59:05< corn> no, I editted the file somewhat so relative position might have changed
20090416 01:59:12< esr> corn: OK.
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20090416 01:59:43< corn> alink: you'll see in the patch I submit :D
20090416 01:59:44< alink> Crab_: I see
20090416 02:01:42< alink> corn: np, I found a new feature of my IDE, it doesn't let me type 498 in the "go to line" dialog, but 497 worked. I thought that my key 8 was broken :)
20090416 02:02:09< corn> weird
20090416 02:02:48< alink> well usually I type line number actually present in the file ;)
20090416 02:03:12< Crab_> alink: I'm trying at the moment to make ai code const-correct in regard to game state (no more set_movement(-1) calls, that is). and this will also allow (by virtue of chosen method of implementation) to make it possible (if it so desired) to make an ai which respects fog/invisible units/etc. 
20090416 02:04:45< alink> i also often worked on fog/invisible things, feel free to ask questions or report bug to me there
20090416 02:05:10< alink> and the AI part of fog is really messy :-/
20090416 02:06:10< Crab_> alink: i will make it in a more devious way ) AI code will not *know* about fog - it will just "see" only a part of all units
20090416 02:06:50< Crab_> alink: so, basically, it will see *not-quite-real* state of the game
20090416 02:07:46< alink> a bit like we do when rendering for player
20090416 02:08:15< Crab_> alink: yes, something like this. it gets interesting when ai moves it's units - since then it has to deal with interrupted moves, just like a player
20090416 02:08:16< alink> *human player
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20090416 02:10:08< alink> Crab_: about that there is a bold change which must be done: make local AI use action::move_unit() like we now do for replay, network-human and network-AI
20090416 02:10:18< alink> but I didn't look the details yet
20090416 02:10:49< alink> just noticed the (source of) problem
20090416 02:11:08< Crab_> alink: I've "done and testing" 'recruit' so far, either 'move' or 'attack' will be next in my list
20090416 02:11:59< Crab_> alink: the problem with move_unit is that I need more exact cause of failure from it
20090416 02:12:48< corn> alink: https://gna.org/patch/?1167 that's how I changed the menu items dynamically, if you're interested
20090416 02:12:49< Crab_> alink: for example, if the move *discovers* unit, I need to know, which unit was discovered (to tell this to ai)
20090416 02:12:51< corn> 2 line fix
20090416 02:13:53< alink> the AI part is move_unit_partial, there is redundancy with action::move_unit but also specific thing like this very ugly variant of sighted event specific to AI move and side 1
20090416 02:14:35< Crab_> alink: yes, it is 1) buggy 2) has incomplete error-checking 3) ugly 4) duplicates action::move_unit partly.
20090416 02:15:30< alink> corn: seems to only deal with hotkey. Does it affect the look of the menu too ?
20090416 02:15:47< corn> alink: yes, it does
20090416 02:15:51< Crab_> alink: but action::move_unit will be hard to reuse
20090416 02:15:56< corn> the menu item disappears from the menu 
20090416 02:16:27< alink> Crab_: maybe add a ai flag there is there is not not much difference
20090416 02:16:36< alink> corn: intersting ..
20090416 02:16:59< alink> corn: I will maybe use that for another feature that i wanted to try
20090416 02:17:01< Crab_> alink: I need to add an additional parameter, not a flag, but a "gatherer of information for the ai"
20090416 02:17:28< Crab_> alink: for example, when human receives a message ("Enemy unit sighted!"), I have to tell this to ai.
20090416 02:17:30< alink> Crab_: ah yes i see
20090416 02:18:04< corn> alink: I think there is similar logic for SP as well, that is for MP
20090416 02:18:30< Crab_> alink: the current ai move code does very ugly things. basically "we try to move, then we check if we got to destination or not"
20090416 02:18:42< JW1> more sex spam on forums
20090416 02:19:42< Turuk> got it
20090416 02:19:44< alink> Crab_: maybe make it return more than size_t, even for human move, could be useful for other stuff too
20090416 02:19:55< JW1> ty Turuk
20090416 02:20:56< Crab_> alink: I'm thinking about using a pointer-to-something as additional optional parameter.
20090416 02:21:16< Crab_> alink: and lots of    if (ai_info_collector!=NULL) {...}
20090416 02:21:51< Crab_> at least the AI is not allowed to undo :))
20090416 02:22:01< alink> Crab_: for example the replay code doesn't seems to control the result of move_unit, change that would allow to detect OOS earlier 
20090416 02:23:06< Crab_> alink: will it help the replay code ? the replay basically supposes "i'm in sync with the game, so if it was ok to do in game, then it will be ok to do in the replay"    or this is not so ?
20090416 02:24:29< alink> Crab_: yes it works like that when all works well, i was speaking about cases when it doesn't work well and goes OOS 
20090416 02:24:32< corn> dfranke: does cornmander.com still resolve to an incorrect IP for you?
20090416 02:25:30< alink> Crab_: but it's already doable, we could just check the returned size_t with steps.size(), so my point was not very good
20090416 02:26:17< Crab_> alink: ok, i'll try to reuse action::move_unit from the ai, by adding ' additional parameter ' to collect the info i need
20090416 02:28:10< alink> Crab_: this will also lower the risk of OOS, because the fact that AI moves are not done by the same code on local host and remote client is a current potential source of error
20090416 02:28:43< Crab_> alink: remote client is synced by sending a replay ?
20090416 02:29:05< alink> yes, replay orders
20090416 02:29:24< Crab_> understood. yes, then it's really better to try to reuse that code.
20090416 02:29:44< alink> I think this mainly why YogiHH started to use ::move_unit in replay code, so local human moves and remote human moves use the same code
20090416 02:29:48< CIA-30> esr * r34957 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix some recall machinery and tune up a map.
20090416 02:31:02< alink> This also lower the maintenance cost of WML feature like move_to event etc 
20090416 02:31:57< Crab_> yes, those events are a source of bugs (especially those who change the game state, for example - kill and recreate units) ...
20090416 02:32:14< Crab_> so it's better to have one code path than several..
20090416 02:34:22< Crab_> alink: btw, what do you think about src/actions.cpp:164 ?
20090416 02:34:55< Crab_> ( http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m4147c18b )
20090416 02:35:30< Crab_> why it is searching for VACANT_ANY tile ?
20090416 02:35:55< Crab_> why it doesn't check  need_castle ?
20090416 02:36:38< alink> checking in game//
20090416 02:40:00< alink> Crab_: i don't see how you can reach this code
20090416 02:40:14< alink> ah yes, sorry
20090416 02:41:05< Crab_> basically, you can either specify a specific map location to recruit, or not specify. if you specify a location which is occupied (by a hidden unit, for example), you can get there.
20090416 02:43:56< alink> this seems indeed a bit weird, have you reproduced a bug?
20090416 02:44:26< Crab_> alink: trying at the moment...
20090416 02:44:55< alink> just filling the castle works fine
20090416 02:46:49< Crab_> alink: 'with enemy invisible units' also works fine
20090416 02:47:21< Crab_> ah, got it
20090416 02:47:34< Crab_> it is undeed unreachable with need_castle=false
20090416 02:47:42< Crab_> oops, "it is undeed unreachable with need_castle=true"
20090416 02:48:10< Crab_> see line 152-153
20090416 02:48:26< alink> yes i see it now
20090416 02:48:26< alink> (or again)
20090416 02:48:43< Crab_> so, it is just weirdly written 
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20090416 02:51:02< alink> there is also an hardcoded max distance of 50 in find_vacant_tile. Seems not nice
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20090416 02:53:03< voris> Say, there isn't a command switch to target a different prefs file is there?
20090416 02:53:12< voris> Rather than having to recompile a whole second copy...
20090416 02:53:26< voris> er, prefs directory
20090416 02:53:50< alink> voris: at least, i know that there is ./configure switch
20090416 02:54:06< voris> Sure but that's to set a different target when compiling
20090416 02:54:07< alink> Rather than having to recompile a whole second copy...  <---oops
20090416 02:55:18< alink> voris: a shell script switching the two directories when needed ?
20090416 02:55:34< voris> heh
20090416 02:55:37< voris> sure
20090416 02:55:39< Crab_> voris: you can keep two copies around :)
20090416 02:55:53< voris> I do that manually, might as well just shell script it.
20090416 02:57:36< alink> good night
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20090416 03:04:18< voris> aha
20090416 03:04:24< voris> --config-dir
20090416 03:04:26< voris> sweet
20090416 03:08:56< karl_m> Crab_: You still here!!??
20090416 03:09:04< Crab_> karl_m: yes.
20090416 03:09:21< karl_m> Crab_: Must be 4am for you. 
20090416 03:09:25< Crab_> yes
20090416 03:09:35< Crab_> your patch works ok )
20090416 03:09:39< karl_m> Crab_: I wish I didnt need to sleep
20090416 03:09:47< karl_m> Crab_: Oh cool.
20090416 03:10:19< Crab_> I'll ask boucman to review it, too. and afterwards one of us will commit it.
20090416 03:10:43< karl_m> Crab_: ok thanks 
20090416 03:11:21< karl_m> Crab_: I see in your conversation with alink you are working on const correctness? I could help with that. Give me somewhere to start if that would be useful?
20090416 03:11:58< Crab_> karl_m: oh, that's a big one )
20090416 03:12:19< Crab_> karl_m: let me think a bit about it..
20090416 03:13:00< dfranke> corn: It's not the resolution that's broken, it's the reverse resolution.
20090416 03:13:03< karl_m> Crab_: :) I imagine it could be pretty big. Something smaller is fine too
20090416 03:14:10< dfranke> /msg corn dfranke@feanor:~/wesnoth/branches/1.6$ ping cornmander.com
20090416 03:14:10< dfranke>  
20090416 03:14:13< dfranke> oops
20090416 03:15:19< Crab_> karl_m: one of the possible little things (but with a big impact :) ) is to add another command-line parameter which will set a wml variable which will be used by the ai arena to load a specific test at startup
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20090416 03:15:41< Crab_> karl_m: if you want something different, i'll think up of something different, of course )
20090416 03:17:03< karl_m> Crab_: I like the cmd-line parameter idea. :)
20090416 03:17:39< Crab_> karl_m: this will allow something like "./wesnoth-debug --nogui --test_id=0001-healing -m --ai_config1=ai/ais/formula_ai.cfg --ai_config2=ai/dev/formula_ai_poisoning.cfg --controller1=ai --controller2=ai  " 
20090416 03:18:37< Crab_> karl_m: I've recently refactored ai arena to separate that scenario from test cases
20090416 03:18:58< karl_m> Crab_: That looks sensible to me
20090416 03:19:00< Crab_> in the directory "./data/ai/scenarios/ai_arena_small", there are a number of config files (2)
20090416 03:19:38< Crab_> each .cfg file is included by ai arena, and each .cfg file 'registers' itself (using a small lua script )
20090416 03:19:56< karl_m> Crab_: yes i see that
20090416 03:21:12< Crab_> and when ai_arena launches, it does some stuff in the [preload] events, and then allows the user to select a test from a list.
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20090416 03:21:27< Crab_> and we want to make "batch" testing possible
20090416 03:22:42< Crab_> to do this, we need several things:1) load a specific ai's at startup -now possible, thanks to you.    2) run a specific test at startup   3) find out how it turned out - basically, assign a 'score' to the ai.
20090416 03:23:10< karl_m> Crab_: Seems like a Very Good Thing (TM)
20090416 03:23:40< Crab_> then we would be able to make a nice shell script which will "load from svn - compile - run a lot of those tests - find out how it's going on - insert the results to some sql db - a separate web frontend will allow the devs to see the stats.'
20090416 03:24:00< karl_m> Crab_: so --test-id=<name of file in same directory as ai_config parameter> ?
20090416 03:24:49< Crab_> karl_m: no need to specify the file name. since we have a WML preprocessor, we can include all files in a specific directory, and each of them will register itself using lua.
20090416 03:24:50< karl_m> Crab_: Yes I am familiar with the concept of regression testing and build farms :)
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20090416 03:25:21< Crab_> karl_m: so, we have to specify an 'event name', and run test as the preload event
20090416 03:26:23< Crab_> there's also some choices to be made. for example, most of those 'small tests' do not involve leaders - so, they can be 'restarted' without restarting the game engine.
20090416 03:26:28< karl_m> Crab_: ok, to match the id with the lua register
20090416 03:26:58< karl_m> Crab_: So we can do a sequence of small tests in the same test run
20090416 03:27:03< Crab_> yes. 
20090416 03:27:20< Crab_> and we can do full-scale (AI vs AI) tests already using any multiplayer map
20090416 03:28:33< Crab_> so, for small tests, some way of specifying 'run each test for N turns and then assign a score and print that score to stdout, and restart a test, and do so M times, then quit' will be good
20090416 03:29:16< Crab_> and note that you don't have to use the ai_arena_small.
20090416 03:29:43< karl_m> Crab_: a test config file? maybe passed to -t (which could in turn specify ai_arena_small or equivalent)
20090416 03:29:51< Crab_> since the tests are *separate*, and the map is *separate*, we can just write another scenario confif from scratch
20090416 03:30:22< Crab_> s/confif/config
20090416 03:31:07< Crab_> so we don't have to use scenario-AI_Arena_small.cfg, and IMO it will be simpler not to reuse it (since it is 3-player map, and we don't need human observer for batch-testing)
20090416 03:31:21< karl_m> yes makes sense
20090416 03:31:59< Crab_> karl_m: for example, we can do this without any c++ at all )
20090416 03:32:12< Crab_> karl_m: if that interests you )
20090416 03:32:38< Crab_> karl_m: we can make a 'test configuration' you spoke of, in a form of WML file which will be included from the scenario
20090416 03:33:03< Crab_> so, we'd just launch -t ai_arena_small_batch, and it will include the current config from another file.
20090416 03:33:30< karl_m> I do need to start working with WML at some point. I'm happy to go that way. What other advantages are there to the --test-id parameter?
20090416 03:34:24< Crab_> karl_m: basically, it looks like that we don't need --test-id in that situation...
20090416 03:35:18< Crab_> karl_m: so, if you want to try wml, it will be a good thing to do.
20090416 03:35:24< karl_m> OK then :)
20090416 03:35:45< Crab_> karl_m: the best people to ask are zookeeper (for wml) and silene (for lua)
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20090416 03:37:03< Crab_> karl_m: the plan is to make another scenario in ai/scenarios, register it in data/_main.cfg, and add a way to 'run a batch of tests which do not use leaders', printing something greppable to stdout.
20090416 03:37:04< karl_m> OK I will ask them. can i just check with you I understand what is needed? we need a WML file that (a) loads a map [ai_arena_small_2p or whatever] (b) loads one or more tests (c) describes how many times to run the tests (d) some sort of output evaluation TBD
20090416 03:38:01< Crab_> yes, we need to reuse this ai_arena_small map and those ai_arena_small tests in another scenario.
20090416 03:38:53< karl_m> Crab_: Cool. I will work on getting something like that going. Probably I will need some more advice as I proceed!
20090416 03:39:03< Crab_> and we need to make a "WML config file" which will  be included by this "another scenario". this "config file" will contain information about "how many times to run the tests"
20090416 03:39:39< Crab_> and we need some kind of 'evaluation of situation'.  for this, we can use formula_ai from wml
20090416 03:40:15< Crab_> see /data/scenario-test.cfg:1357
20090416 03:40:43< karl_m> So [Batch Test Scenario] includes [Test Config] and [AI Arena Map] and [Tests] and calls formula_ai for evaluation
20090416 03:41:34< Crab_> karl_m: yes. it runs those tests the number of times specified by [Test Config], and each test runs until a formula_ai-evaluated stop.
20090416 03:43:02< karl_m> do we specify/configure the evaluation in [Test Config] or is it the same for all tests?
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20090416 03:44:47< Crab_> karl_m: i think that each test should contain it's own evaluation part.
20090416 03:45:37< Crab_> karl_m: since each test is independent - drop a file in that tests directory - and you'll have a new test. The only thing that is needed is a unique string id.
20090416 03:46:28< karl_m> right, so the formula_ai call is in each [Test] file. They would all have some sort of common function or tag that [Batch Test Scenario] would know to look for.
20090416 03:46:33< karl_m> ?
20090416 03:47:18< Crab_> karl_m: for example, it can be done with a named event (for example, if we are executing test 0001-healing, then each turn we need to run event with name "0001-healing_evaluate", and if it sets a specific variable (for example,named "stop", and another, named "score" ), then we stop.
20090416 03:47:34< Crab_> karl_m: they should just register themselves using a preload event
20090416 03:47:47< Crab_> karl_m: as it is done now.
20090416 03:48:22< Crab_>  ai_arena_small includes them all by preprocessor directive {ai/scenarios/ai_arena_small/}
20090416 03:48:28< Crab_> this includes all files in a dir
20090416 03:49:01< Crab_> and each of those files contains a small lua script which, of course, knows the name of that test, and can do whatever necessary to 'register itself'
20090416 03:49:15< karl_m> alright cool
20090416 03:50:19< Crab_> if we make this work, we'll have a working 'ai batch testing', and this will be good. then it will be possible to setup that script to update\run\store results and all will be good )
20090416 03:51:01< karl_m> Sounds like an excellent thing to have
20090416 03:51:26< Crab_> so - good luck, and if you'll have any questions about WML - it's best to ask zookeeper, about lua it's best to ask silene.
20090416 03:53:05< Crab_> and, btw, we have "two non-trivial patches accepted and you're in" policy )
20090416 03:53:10< karl_m> thanks heaps. I will check in with them and ask any questions I might have. Are they on IRC at any predictable time?
20090416 03:53:21< Crab_> karl_m: france
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20090416 03:53:44< karl_m> :) A very inclusive policy. France, right!
20090416 03:55:49< Crab_> you can see the irclogs to see their "usual" arrival times. 
20090416 03:56:38< Crab_> ~6-8 hours still left, imo
20090416 03:56:55< Crab_> and I'm going to sleep now ) thanks for that patch )
20090416 03:57:21< karl_m> Crab_: cool, thanks again for all your help, enjoy the sleeping!
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20090416 04:01:08< CIA-30> esr * r34958 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Amp up the undead un DM;20, and require Delfador to kill the bad guy himself.
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20090416 06:04:53< corn> esr: I am not sure how to reproduce #13238. I created an MP FFA game with 3 players and 4 players and then made one player exit. The game prompted the original creator of the game with 3 choices: replace with ai, replace with local  player, abort game
20090416 06:05:37< corn> the bug mentions that a menu should pop up to select wihch player gets control of the old player's side
20090416 06:06:22< corn> corn: making the host exit makes the game transfer hosts and still doesn't invoke any menus
20090416 06:06:32< corn> corn: needs more info to reproduce?
20090416 06:06:34< corn> er
20090416 06:06:42< corn> esr: needs more info to reproduce?
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20090416 08:18:00< AndreLuiz> where's the scatman?
20090416 08:20:50< Rhonda> AndreLuiz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUWBAy3bATI
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20090416 08:21:23< AndreLuiz> oh thanks
20090416 08:22:21< ancestral> 'course the best one is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpHLEm9-0bg …
20090416 08:22:54< AndreLuiz> yes, but it cant be embedded
20090416 08:22:55< AndreLuiz> =~
20090416 08:23:05< ancestral> ohhh
20090416 08:23:06< Rhonda> Why not?
20090416 08:24:25< AndreLuiz> the guy who uploaded requested so
20090416 08:24:43< Rhonda> That doesn't mean it can't be.
20090416 08:24:53< Rhonda> ... and I guess there are other versions of that song on youtube, too
20090416 08:25:12 * Rhonda . o O ( I just fail to see the connection between scatman and wesnoth ... )
20090416 08:25:12< AndreLuiz> ic
20090416 08:26:33< AndreLuiz> oh, theres none
20090416 08:26:34< AndreLuiz> sorry
20090416 08:28:00< ancestral> Especially in the dev room
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20090416 08:57:23< karl_m> silene: You got a moment?
20090416 08:58:34< karl_m> silene: In a WML file, how do I write the value of a lua variable to stdout?
20090416 08:58:35< silene> karl_m: not much, but go on
20090416 08:59:08< karl_m> silene: I'm trying wesnoth.message but i must be doing something wrong
20090416 08:59:46< silene> karl_m: wesnoth.message expect a string; what does your line look like?
20090416 09:00:57< karl_m> silene: I have a table t["something"] = "something else"; so I want to write wesnoth.message t["something"]
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20090416 09:02:02< silene> aren't you forgetting parentheses? (and don't you have Lua errors on your console?)
20090416 09:03:16< karl_m> silene: I'm very new at this. Thanks for reminding me about the console. re brackets do you mean wesnoth.message(t["something"]), thanks heaps!
20090416 09:04:45< silene> you can elude parentheses only when your function call has a single argument that is either a literal string or a table constructor
20090416 09:07:18< karl_m> silene:  right, thanks that is very clear
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20090416 09:10:23< YogiHH> hello everyone
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20090416 09:47:32< euschn> good morning
20090416 09:49:01< ancestral> お早う
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20090416 10:27:30< Ivanovic> moin
20090416 10:28:51< euschn> hey Ivanovic
20090416 10:30:17< esr> corn: Please explaiun the failure to reproduce in a comment - then I can mark it Need Info.
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20090416 10:41:23< teaser> esr: I'm sorry but you didn't reply yesterday, are you interrested in helping me with the replay archive? Do you need more info? etc?
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20090416 10:42:13< esr> teaser: Sorry, I missed your query.  What was it about?
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20090416 10:47:59< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34959 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth-did/de.po wesnoth-units/de.po): updated German translation (included patch #1163 )
20090416 10:48:05< CIA-30> ivanovic * r34960 /branches/1.6/ (4 files in 3 dirs): updated German translation (included patch #1163 )
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20090416 10:49:45< CIA-30> fendrin * r34961 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/20_showdown_in_the_northern_swamp.cfg: If killed by an (unit != Delfador) Iliah-Malal is leveled one up.
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20090416 11:03:37< CIA-30> esr * r34962 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/20_showdown_in_the_northern_swamp.cfg: 
20090416 11:03:37< CIA-30> [place_shroud] is broken; fendrin will file an engine bug report.
20090416 11:03:37< CIA-30> For now, this onditions out the dialog that depends on it.
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20090416 11:43:26< teaser> esr: badicly I want to parse a replay-file and retrieve some info from it. I was told that it is preferred that I use the existing wmlparser.py. I don't want to dwelve that much into python so if you could make an example using wmlparser.py that would be great.
20090416 11:43:28< teaser> esr: I ask you since I assume you wrote it and you seem to be 'the python guy'
20090416 11:44:34< esr> teaser: Argh. I didn't write that code and acttually don't understand it very well.  You probably want the author, elias.
20090416 11:45:00-!- allefant is now known as elias
20090416 11:45:06< esr> Sadly, he didn't documenbt it very well.
20090416 11:45:22< esr> Hi allefant :-)
20090416 11:45:24< elias> yeah, it was written as part of a campaign editor i made
20090416 11:46:16< esr> This spunds like a good chanvce for you and teaser to document it properly, *nudge nudge*
20090416 11:46:32< elias> does replay wml contain any macros?
20090416 11:46:35< esr> s/spunds/sounds/
20090416 11:46:47< esr> elias: I think not.
20090416 11:46:55< elias> then might almost be overkill using a full parser
20090416 11:47:04< elias> a regexp would do :)
20090416 11:47:19< esr> Or Sapient's WLIterator thingy.
20090416 11:47:26< esr> WMLIterator
20090416 11:47:48< elias> yeah
20090416 11:48:15< elias> the hard part of WML is handling all the macro expansions and variable and string exceptions used in hand-written code
20090416 11:48:20 * YogiHH has never seen a macro in replay WML
20090416 11:50:29 * Soliton thought macros get handled by a preprocessor.
20090416 11:51:47< elias> Soliton: did you run wmlunits after the change?
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20090416 12:02:40< Soliton> elias: probably. i haven't removed any addons from my black list though. which oness hould work now?
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20090416 12:04:55< elias> well, with --ignore-fatal-errors it produces (slightly broken) stuff for all the ones you gave me
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20090416 12:07:59< Soliton> but you said not to use that so i don't intend to.
20090416 12:08:15< Soliton> without it only mercenaries work?
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20090416 12:09:12-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Summer of Code info: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 50 bugs, 234 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090416 12:13:03< elias> yeah
20090416 12:14:54< elias> someone should tell addon authors to look at the error messages
20090416 12:15:21< elias> but i guess they are hard to see in windows
20090416 12:16:23< CIA-30> suokko * r34963 /trunk/ (changelog src/playturn.cpp): Fixed control transfer after player leaves MP game (bug #13238)
20090416 12:18:54< Soliton> elias: yeah, someone should do that...
20090416 12:21:12< teaser> esr: ok, thanks!
20090416 12:21:12< teaser> elias: no, no macros in replays, so you suggest using something simpler?
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20090416 12:22:31< CIA-30> suokko * r34964 /branches/1.6/ (changelog src/playturn.cpp): backport to stable: Fixed control transfer after player leaves MP game (bug #13238)
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20090416 12:22:39< elias> well, i can give you the code to do it with wmlparser.py if you want
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20090416 12:26:04< teaser> Frankly I don't care how it's done, I just want it done in a way so that I don't have to research oython or regexp that much ;)
20090416 12:26:44< teaser> if you could give me an example either with wmlparser or wmliterator to grab the era-id from a replay I'm all set 
20090416 12:29:33< elias> from within another python script?
20090416 12:31:15< teaser> yep, I think that would be the best aproach, since we want to do some more stuff with it later
20090416 12:33:08< esr> Ivanovic: Uh oh. suokko is committing again.  This could be a problem.  Should we (a) revoke his dev privs (b) assign someone to review his changes, or what?
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20090416 12:34:45 * Soliton reviewed the change. it looks fine.
20090416 12:35:30< Soliton> if you look at it it's a short diff even with a comment.
20090416 12:40:27< elias> teaser: where can i get a replay file (can't run wesnoth here)?
20090416 12:42:07< Soliton> elias: wesnoth.org/replays
20090416 12:44:32< elias> oh, they are .gz format...
20090416 12:44:37 * elias adds an "import gzip"
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20090416 12:59:49< elias> teaser: this is how it would look with wmlparser.py: http://paste.debian.net/33659/
20090416 13:03:25< esr> Soliton: Well, good.  But I'm still traumatized from trying to repair what sukoo he did to the AI, so I'm a bit twitchy about seeing him commit again.
20090416 13:04:06< Soliton> sure, that's why you take a look at the diff when you see him commit. :-)
20090416 13:05:26< loonycyborg> Some people even have nightmares about suokko-induced breakages :P
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20090416 13:12:13< Ivanovic> see it this way: when he fiddles with the ai files it is a clear case of "revert!"
20090416 13:12:20< Ivanovic> the same for savegame/replay changes
20090416 13:12:23< Ivanovic> ;)
20090416 13:12:35< esr> Ivanovic: Heh.
20090416 13:12:58< esr> BTW, what do I need to do to get a Wesnoth cloak.
20090416 13:13:03< esr> ?
20090416 13:14:10< Soliton> tell Ivanovic about it.
20090416 13:17:48< esr> Soliton: ....I was,er, trying to do that...
20090416 13:18:44< Soliton> oh.
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20090416 13:24:44< loonycyborg> esr: You seem to already have wesnoth cloak :P
20090416 13:36:35-!- teaser [n=tsr@c213-89-114-91.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090416 13:37:35< Ivanovic> esr: you *got* one already
20090416 13:37:46< Ivanovic> esr: you just have to login at nickserv to activate it
20090416 13:38:00< Ivanovic> (this /msg nickserv identify PASSWORD stuff)
20090416 13:38:47< loonycyborg> He's already logged in too :P
20090416 13:39:26< loonycyborg> Perhaps he asked on someone else's behalf?
20090416 13:44:39< esr> Ivanovic: Will check
20090416 13:45:57< esr> Ivanovic: OK, thanks, it's working.
20090416 13:48:45< CIA-30> esr * r34965 /trunk/data/ (core/editor/tool-hints.cfg themes/editor2.cfg): wmllint cleanup.
20090416 13:49:59< elias> did you ever think about automatically running wmllint on uploaded addons, and refuse the upload if any warnings are found? :)
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20090416 14:04:42< teaser> elias: thanks for the example... I'll get back to you with some python questions later ;)
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20090416 14:47:44< shadowmaster> It seems that no matter what WLAN network I se, posting new posts in the forums is rather slow lately
20090416 14:48:14< shadowmaster> could there be anything of interest in the mysqld logs?
20090416 14:49:24< shadowmaster> (I am not allowed to read them)
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20090416 14:58:54< shadowmaster> (or am I the only one experiencing this?)
20090416 14:59:45< Ivanovic> the forums work nicely for me...
20090416 14:59:50< Ivanovic> though i am not on a wlan
20090416 14:59:52< Ivanovic> ;)
20090416 15:00:04< shadowmaster> including, posting?
20090416 15:01:42< shadowmaster> your last post was two days ago, so perhaps it isn't so true - I've been experiencing incredibly long waits when posting/editing posts since just yesterday
20090416 15:01:48< Ivanovic> when i posted the release announcement speed was just fine
20090416 15:01:57< shadowmaster> incredibly long >= 1 minute
20090416 15:02:07< Ivanovic> hmm, no idea
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20090416 15:33:48< Soliton> loonycyborg: some warnings from a new python version, i guess: http://rafb.net/p/LJqFaG99.html
20090416 15:35:19< loonycyborg> Soliton: I've already fixed them in trunk.
20090416 15:36:02< loonycyborg> That's from new scons version.
20090416 15:36:47< Soliton> ah, that was from building 1.6.
20090416 15:39:47< AI0867> https://gna.org/bugs/?13042 <-- I'd like some opinions on this, should I implement [objectives][show_if] even though a lua shorthand exists now?
20090416 15:40:22< Turuk> shadowmaster: I'm having the same problem
20090416 15:40:29-!- shadowmaster [n=ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090416 15:40:39< Turuk> it used to be almost instantaneous and now it's taking 10 seconds or more
20090416 15:40:41< shadowmaster> well, turuk confirms - posting is also slow for him
20090416 15:40:44< shadowmaster> ah.
20090416 15:41:04< Turuk> 1 minute at the worst
20090416 15:42:12< zookeeper> AI0867, sounds good to me
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20090416 15:46:27< shadowmaster> ... never mind, I've found the issue. Nothing MySQL-related, rather a "ideas-from-a-formerly-MIA-admin" issue
20090416 15:46:59< shadowmaster> dealing with it
20090416 15:47:38-!- crimson_p [n=irchon@64.201.60.216] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090416 15:47:45< Soliton> that idea was surely only for new accounts that haven't posted?
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20090416 15:48:37< Crab_> hi
20090416 15:49:22< crimson_p> why can't spammers just stop? :(
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20090416 15:49:57< Reisiger> Hi Crab_
20090416 15:50:04< crimson_p> oops
20090416 15:51:05< shadowmaster> Soliton: if you mean the spam-prevention feature, it actually affects posting too
20090416 15:51:15< shadowmaster> that's what the control panel description says about it
20090416 15:51:30< Soliton> yes, but why of established accounts?
20090416 15:52:40 * Turuk shrugs
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20090416 15:53:05< Turuk> It runs their IPs every time, I guess in case the account gets hacked and they post from a different IP? I dunno
20090416 15:53:39< Soliton> i guess you can't tune that then?
20090416 15:54:09< Soliton> it really just make most sense to do such a check the first couple of posts.
20090416 15:54:11< shadowmaster> Soliton: it could be hacked
20090416 15:54:27< shadowmaster> but I'll see what cycholka things about it first.
20090416 15:54:31< shadowmaster> thinks
20090416 15:54:39< Soliton> good idea.
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20090416 16:09:54< teaser> Soliton: I wonder the game id (the number in the replay-file-name) is that reset everytime the server is restarted or can I use that as an identifier?
20090416 16:10:18< Soliton> no, it's reset each time.
20090416 16:10:42< teaser> ok
20090416 16:15:09< teaser> Soliton: next question, is the start and end time of the game stored in the replay somewhere (I've searched but couldn't find anything)
20090416 16:15:28< Soliton> nope.
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20090416 16:24:11< CIA-30> suokko * r34966 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
20090416 16:24:11< CIA-30> Changed delayed shroud updates and scenarion objectives to change and show settings for viewing team. (help in bug #13313)
20090416 16:24:11< CIA-30> I don't know if this should be backported to stable also. Current behavior could be considered as bug so maybe yes.
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20090416 16:44:07< zookeeper> hi suokko!
20090416 16:44:24-!- Synergy is now known as Guest61089
20090416 16:44:31< suokko> hi :)
20090416 16:45:16< loonycyborg> LTNS, suokko :P
20090416 16:48:29< Soliton> suokko: what does delayed shroud have to do with viewing team vs current team?
20090416 16:49:11< suokko> Current team is not controlled by player but viewing_team is one that is controled by player
20090416 16:49:40< Soliton> how can they differ for delayed shroud?
20090416 16:50:41< suokko> Player wants to set delayed shroud updates on then he assumes that he can set it on for his side and not for some remote or ai side that is currently playing
20090416 16:51:22< Soliton> ah, you can do that when it is not your turn?
20090416 16:51:36< Soliton> what if you have several sides?
20090416 16:51:51< suokko> Then it is set for the last side that you played
20090416 16:52:00< Soliton> i'd just disable it.
20090416 16:53:13< suokko> I thought that but when setting delayed on I'm often playing my turn to end and then thinking that I should set it on now.
20090416 16:53:15-!- Polarina [n=polarina@wesnoth/translator/Polarina] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090416 16:53:30< Soliton> though i suppose it might help if you made a mutliturn move that yu notice you want to undo.
20090416 16:55:01< suokko> But maybe delayed update shouldn't be side specific setting. It could be set for all sides controlled by player with same setting
20090416 16:55:14< Soliton> good point.
20090416 16:55:34< Soliton> i think that'd be best.
20090416 16:56:44< Polarina> The strangest Lua bug I've ever seen.
20090416 16:57:19-!- suokko [n=coren@cs181135111.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving."]
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20090416 16:59:32< Polarina> http://codepad.org/pAaW1oSO
20090416 17:01:42< Polarina> ((1024 or false) and true) or false   returns 1024. :O
20090416 17:01:48 * Polarina stops talking for now.
20090416 17:01:58< AI0867> makes sense to me =P
20090416 17:02:07< AI0867> 1024 is true
20090416 17:02:13< AI0867> so 1024 or anything returns 1024
20090416 17:02:16< Polarina> AI0867: It doesn't make sense.
20090416 17:02:31< AI0867> and 1024 and something true returns 1024
20090416 17:02:40< Polarina> the arithmetic operators 'and' and 'or' are always meant to return a boolean.
20090416 17:02:54< loonycyborg> Nope.
20090416 17:02:56< Polarina> Yes.
20090416 17:03:00< AI0867> 1024 is a valid boolean =P
20090416 17:03:09< Polarina> AI0867: It's a number in Lua.
20090416 17:03:12< loonycyborg> In lua and python they're somewhat trickier :P
20090416 17:03:23< Polarina> AI0867: But 'and' and 'or' in Lua return a value of type 'boolean'
20090416 17:03:59< AI0867> (if 1024 true false) or the like returns true, right?
20090416 17:04:28< Polarina> AI0867: I didn't understand that snippet.
20090416 17:05:37< loonycyborg> Polarina: http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#2.5.3
20090416 17:05:38< Polarina> if 1024 == true then return true end    -- returns nothing.
20090416 17:05:41< AI0867> http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#2.5.3 <-- this specifies that  (anything true or anything) should return the former, though (something true and something true) should return the latter
20090416 17:06:03< AI0867> Polarina: 1024 and true aren't equal, but they're both true
20090416 17:06:11< Polarina> loonycyborg: Yes, I know. But it's still not behaving properly.
20090416 17:06:49< Polarina> ((1 or false) and true) is true, thus, it's 'true or false', which is true, not 1.
20090416 17:07:02< AI0867> Equality (==) first compares the type of its operands. If the types are different, then the result is false.
20090416 17:07:27-!- Morian [i=romain@bezut.info] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090416 17:07:36< AI0867> The conjunction operator and returns its first argument if this value is false or nil; otherwise, and returns its second argument. The disjunction operator or returns its first argument if this value is different from nil and false; otherwise, or returns its second argument.
20090416 17:07:38< loonycyborg> Indeed. If "(1 or false) and true" is true then why "(1 or false) and true) or false" is 1?
20090416 17:08:03< loonycyborg> Looks like it's ignoring () or something..
20090416 17:08:05< Polarina> loonycyborg: I told you, it's a bug in Lua.
20090416 17:08:10< AI0867> (1 or false) should return 1, but (1024 and true) should return true
20090416 17:08:13< Polarina> Code generation bug, apparently.
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20090416 17:09:22< loonycyborg> Works as expected in python(once you capitalize True and False) :P
20090416 17:09:31< Polarina> loonycyborg: Of course.
20090416 17:12:10 * Soliton doesn't see the bug.
20090416 17:14:02< loonycyborg> Soliton: "(1 or false) and true) or false" is same as "true or false". There's no 1 there :P
20090416 17:14:50< Soliton> right, as expected according to the rules.
20090416 17:15:05< Soliton> minus the syntax error.
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20090416 17:15:29< loonycyborg> *"((1 or false) and true) or false"
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20090416 17:31:02< corn> esr: while I was sleeping it seems someone did manage to reproduce and fixed the bug, suokko@r34963
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20090416 17:59:12< esr> corn: Yes.  Unfortunately this is frightening for a different reason: suokko got dev privileges, did a considerable amount of damage to the codebase (especially the AI) and then disappeared.  Seeing that he is committing again is..nit reassuring.
20090416 17:59:22< esr> s/nit/not/
20090416 18:01:14-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090416 18:01:53< loonycyborg> esr: He was on irc hour ago :)
20090416 18:02:00-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090416 18:02:48 * esr gets pitchforks and torches
20090416 18:03:14< corn> lol
20090416 18:03:24< loonycyborg> Too late: [18:57:18] suokko [n=coren@cs181135111.pp.htv.fi] вышел из IRC: "Leaving." :P
20090416 18:03:53< gabm> lol. Is someone sabotaging the wesnoth codebase as we speak :P ?
20090416 18:04:16< corn> he's from finland, programmers are a national export there
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20090416 18:05:00< loonycyborg> gabm: I don't think what suokko did was outright sabotage. Just some of his changes were somewhat shortsighted.
20090416 18:05:13< gabm> I see
20090416 18:05:45< gabm> anyways, there's always "revert changes from this revision", if done soon enough...
20090416 18:06:31< loonycyborg> Since his changes were to AI, breakage wasn't notices soon enough.
20090416 18:06:37< loonycyborg> *noticed
20090416 18:06:50< gabm> Well, not to distract you guys from burning the offender at the stake, but I was wondering if someone could review my patch at https://gna.org/bugs/?6301
20090416 18:07:13< gabm> It's small :)
20090416 18:07:54< gabm> Um, wait a sec, the patch is at https://gna.org/patch/?1162
20090416 18:08:04< gabm> The address above is the bug it addresses.
20090416 18:08:42< Crab_> gabm: there was a problem - nobody was around at that time to gracefully undo the breaking change, so esr has to do some mass reverting (the remnants of those actions still litter the ai codebase, and there's little that can be done with them until some ai regression framework is up)
20090416 18:09:18< gabm> Crab_: ouch, that hurts
20090416 18:09:24< Crab_> gabm: see r29881 if you want to see how it looked
20090416 18:10:01< gabm> Crab_: I'll jot that revision down, for when I want to laugh - or be horrified
20090416 18:10:32< Crab_> gabm: and grep the source for "#ifdef SUOKKO" 
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20090416 18:13:14< gabm> Anybody up to rewieving my patch? Also, I'm looking for last-minute feeback on my application, particularly the schedule
20090416 18:13:57< gabm> Crab_: thanks - I'll look at that when I reboot under linux
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20090416 18:17:45< gabm> loonycyborg: the wesnoth codebase is quite big, it seems easy to mess stuff up. For instance, while making the above patch, I saw that the same WML attribute was read and written at a lot of places... I may have missed one, by lack of experience
20090416 18:20:32< gabm> Crab_: he used #ifdef to isolate changes while he was working on them? Isn't it better to create an svn branch - or what do people usually do?
20090416 18:21:48< Crab_> gabm: no, those #ifdefs are esr's. those were places where it was hard to say what should be done with the code.
20090416 18:23:09< gabm> Crab_: Um, ok - I should look before commenting
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20090416 18:29:51< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=352467#p352467
20090416 18:31:32-!- noy [n=Noy@d75-157-52-251.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090416 18:33:07< shadowmaster> a commit from suokko, what the hell?
20090416 18:33:16< shadowmaster> "hi :)"? what the ...
20090416 18:33:25< esr> shadowmaster: That was my reaction, too...
20090416 18:33:31< shadowmaster> .... I mean... what the ****?
20090416 18:33:47< shadowmaster> too bad I was in class at that moment. 
20090416 18:33:59< shadowmaster> he escaped before esr or me could react
20090416 18:34:07 * esr hands shadowmaster a pitchfork and a torch
20090416 18:34:28< shadowmaster> "you broke my campaign, bastard! DIE!"
20090416 18:35:07< shadowmaster> IftU 1.10.0 would've been released in November if the AI weren't broken and crashy at that time
20090416 18:35:18< shadowmaster> suokko, I know you are reading this! D:<
20090416 18:35:19< esr> "My name is Ignacio Morelle.  You killed my campaign.  Prepare to die."
20090416 18:35:47< shadowmaster> um, that line sounds familiar for some reason
20090416 18:36:09 * esr ctries because ShadowMaster probably never saw "The Princess Bride"
20090416 18:37:32< shadowmaster> no, but by reading the wikipedia article, suddenly a lot of things make sense to me for the first time in years
20090416 18:37:38< esr> shadowmaster: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/quotes
20090416 18:39:44 * shadowmaster rushes out of this hell, btw
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20090416 18:51:57< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: That file seems to work fine in mplayer :P
20090416 18:52:14< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: windows...
20090416 18:52:15< Ivanovic> ;)
20090416 18:52:48< Soliton> mplayer works fine on windows, too!
20090416 18:53:18 * loonycyborg doesn't play audio often, not to mention on windows..
20090416 18:54:07 * Ivanovic tends to not use windows
20090416 18:54:13< Ivanovic> and on linux his audio works fine...
20090416 18:54:15< Ivanovic> ;)
20090416 18:59:52-!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090416 19:01:22< shikadibot> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=24769  who would know anything about this?
20090416 19:03:38< Soliton> jexiste.fr
20090416 19:04:56-!- Andrai [n=Andrai@150.165.63.86] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090416 19:05:18-!- boucman [n=rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090416 19:05:29< boucman> hey all
20090416 19:06:20< loonycyborg> boucman: gabm wanted to have his patch reviewed :P
20090416 19:06:38< boucman> not tonight, will do tomorow afternoon
20090416 19:06:41< boucman> sorry
20090416 19:06:59< dfranke> Uh, it looks like suokko is back.
20090416 19:07:20-!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has quit [Success]
20090416 19:07:21< dfranke> Just posted a bug report and replied to one of mine.
20090416 19:07:59< loonycyborg> dfranke: Why are you in pitchfork mood too? IIRC he disappeared before you joined..
20090416 19:08:10< shikadibot> he killed the AI
20090416 19:08:29< loonycyborg> To wesnoth project that is.
20090416 19:10:29< dfranke> loonycyborg: I'm not, personally, but knowing his current reputation I'm just surprised.
20090416 19:11:11-!- mordante [n=mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090416 19:11:24< mordante> hi
20090416 19:11:43< gabm> mordante: hi
20090416 19:11:51< mordante> hi gabm 
20090416 19:12:04< boucman> gabm: i'll check your patch tomorow afternoon
20090416 19:12:20< gabm> thanks boucman
20090416 19:12:25< boucman> np
20090416 19:14:34< mordante> gabm, the problem with branching on svn is that branching is easy but merging back is hard
20090416 19:14:50< mordante> (might have improved with the latest svn release)
20090416 19:15:05< Crab_> boucman: and I've left a karl_m's patch for you to check (when you'll be free), too. I've already checked it and it is good.
20090416 19:15:17< boucman> yup saw that
20090416 19:15:25< gabm> mordante: I see you read the logs :P
20090416 19:15:37< gabm> mordante: yeah, I had a bad merging experience
20090416 19:15:40< boucman> Crab_: what exactly is the last change you comitted to the ai, about perceived param vs real param
20090416 19:15:41< mordante> gabm, I always do ;-)
20090416 19:15:53< boucman> is this the base infrastructure for changing the AI perception ?
20090416 19:15:58 * mordante too my first large wesnoth project
20090416 19:16:06< Crab_> boucman: it is not used at the moment. yes, this is base infrastructure for AI perception changes.
20090416 19:16:14< boucman> ok
20090416 19:16:25< Crab_> boucman: I've got updated version on my comp, so don't review yet.
20090416 19:16:41< boucman> ok, I won't :P
20090416 19:16:54< Crab_> boucman: I will not enable it so far, I want to test more. 
20090416 19:17:08< boucman> no prob, take your time
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20090416 19:17:56< Crab_> boucman: but, basically, it is a beginning of infrastructure to allow ai decisions based on incomplete information (for example - fog), or perceptions about terrain quality, etc.
20090416 19:18:13< Crab_> or, "to allow ai decisions based on hypothetical information"
20090416 19:18:18< gabm> mordante: so when (and if) I get started on replacing the current savegame code, what would be the best way of isolating my changes without breaking everything?
20090416 19:18:34< Crab_> boucman: and it has stricter error checking then previous versions.
20090416 19:18:36< boucman> yes, an AI independent way for a scenario to tweak the AI, I like it
20090416 19:18:46< gabm> mordante: *so as not to break everything
20090416 19:19:14< Crab_> boucman: this patch (and a new scenario karl_m is working at the moment) will allow us to setup a *test farm* for those tests )
20090416 19:19:17< mordante> gabm, what I do for the gui is add a hidden start parameter and use if's in the code so I can test both old and new behaviour
20090416 19:19:26< Crab_> boucman: with a web frontend, no less )
20090416 19:19:34< boucman> wo
20090416 19:19:35< boucman> w
20090416 19:19:41 * boucman wants to see that :)
20090416 19:19:44< Crab_> boucman: basically, "ai arena in batch mode"
20090416 19:19:55< mordante> gabm, start wesnoth with --new-widgets and you'll run into quite some problems (eg language dialog will cause an assert)
20090416 19:20:47< Soliton> umm, does any campaign start in trunk atm?
20090416 19:20:47< gabm> mordante: ok, a hidden option might do the trick
20090416 19:22:43< boucman> ok, I'm leaving now...
20090416 19:22:51< boucman> Crab_: remember to commit from time to time :)
20090416 19:22:59< boucman> there is no such thing as too many commits :P
20090416 19:23:48< Crab_> boucman: I want to commit at least "once per day", to avoid backlog issues 
20090416 19:24:01< Crab_> boucman: but, I want to dcommit only when it compiles :)
20090416 19:24:33< boucman> hehe
20090416 19:24:35< boucman> ok, bbl
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20090416 19:24:48< mordante> Soliton, TB starts for me
20090416 19:24:50< Crab_> ( s/complies/compiles )
20090416 19:25:07< gabm> Crab_:  commit vs dcommit - are you using git-svn?
20090416 19:25:43< Soliton> they all say illegal character in map for me but maybe it's using a different data dir for some reason.
20090416 19:26:04< Crab_> gabm: yes.
20090416 19:26:41< Soliton> hmm no, it says it's using my checkout's data dir.
20090416 19:26:42< mordante> might be
20090416 19:27:00< mordante> and your preferences directory?
20090416 19:27:10< Soliton> my usual one.
20090416 19:27:34< Soliton> did something compatibility breaking change there?
20090416 19:29:14< Soliton> mordante: LOW doesn't start for you though?
20090416 19:31:06< Crab_> Soliton: LOW doesn't start here...
20090416 19:31:33< loonycyborg> Here either.
20090416 19:32:05< gabm> Crab_: Was it hard to learn, and was the effort worth the reward? I was considering using git with git-svn for the SoC, but then I don't want to spend more time learning the tool than coding.
20090416 19:33:13< Crab_> gabm: it was easy to learn (be sure to practice a bit on some other svn repository, to have more confidence when using it)
20090416 19:33:45< Soliton> there are quite many developers here who use git-svn so you can just ask here.
20090416 19:33:46< gabm> Crab_: good idea, I'll practice on my own svn server
20090416 19:34:25< gabm> Soliton: good to know I can find some help if I get stuck with that
20090416 19:34:28< Crab_> gabm: and it is nicer. fast branching, plus the ability to 'stash local changes away' or commit them "locally" 
20090416 19:35:11< Soliton> local commit and local blame are the killer features for me.
20090416 19:35:35< Soliton> also less space used for the entire repo compared to a couple svn checkouts.
20090416 19:35:54< mordante> Soliton, LoW fails for me
20090416 19:36:16< gabm> I read about those features. But will it help if I want to maintain a branch with savegame changes without affecting the main tree?
20090416 19:36:32< gabm> I guess merging is still as difficult, since it happens with svn
20090416 19:36:33< Soliton> sure.
20090416 19:36:39< loonycyborg> IftU fails too. With different error though.
20090416 19:36:51< loonycyborg> THoT starts fine.
20090416 19:37:04< Soliton> well, if you have local branches svn is not involved.
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20090416 19:37:39< Soliton> but we wouldn't want you to have everything local and then get hit by a bus anyway. :-)
20090416 19:37:42< Chusslove> Ivanovic: I should probably move http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User_talk:Caslav.ilic/ImageLocalization someplace else. At top level, or...?
20090416 19:37:54< gabm> Soliton: lol
20090416 19:42:15< Ivanovic> Chusslove: yeah, sounds reasonabe
20090416 19:42:43< esr> AFK for a bit...back later
20090416 19:42:47-!- esr [n=chatzill@wesnoth/developer/esr] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009030423]"]
20090416 19:46:48< Soliton> after updating my install the campaigns start... so it silently used data from there instead of my checkout. :-/
20090416 19:51:18< Soliton> looks like r34816 broke LOW.
20090416 19:52:42< Chusslove> Ivanovic: Hm, either I'm blind, or there's no move option... Perhaps not enough karma?
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20090416 19:53:23< Ivanovic> Chusslove: you are probably not admin enough
20090416 19:53:25< Ivanovic> ;)
20090416 19:53:33-!- molgrum_ [n=molgrum@c83-249-53-163.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090416 19:56:20< Chusslove> Ivanovic: So... You wouldn't happen to be one (admin)? :)
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20090416 19:57:59< Ivanovic> http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/ImageLocalization
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20090416 20:07:56< Chusslove> Ivanovic: Yay.
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20090416 20:27:58< Chusslove> Ivanovic: The next question would be who starts to test being the jockey for the maintenance (receiving images, running tracker)? You or I? If I, then I'd need to "apply" for SVN account. If you, then just drop me a note some time, to start sending you some images. (No hurry at all, of course, just to have it clear.)
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20090416 20:40:28< silene> hi
20090416 20:40:37< YogiHH> hi sliene
20090416 20:40:43< YogiHH> hi silene
20090416 20:41:03< CIA-30> jhinrichs * r34967 /trunk/src/ (12 files): 
20090416 20:41:03< CIA-30> Savegame reorganization Step 1: Providing a simpler interface to saving and loading.
20090416 20:41:03< CIA-30> Move save_index stuff to savegame.cpp and do some dependency cleanup.
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20090416 20:43:12< CIA-30> soliton * r34968 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/23_End_of_War.cfg: fixed bug #13380: Starting LOW in trunk fails
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20090416 20:46:22< mordante> hi silene 
20090416 20:51:03< corn> YogiHH: check out the patch I put up that changes play/stop in the menu
20090416 20:51:07< corn> 3 line fix
20090416 20:51:16 * YogiHH checks
20090416 20:53:44< YogiHH> corn: didn't you say you are going to switch the caption as well?
20090416 20:54:02< corn> YogiHH: so that there is an indication of what mode you are in?
20090416 20:54:12< YogiHH> mhm
20090416 20:54:16< corn> not sure how to do that
20090416 20:54:49< corn> I'll check it out in an hour or so
20090416 20:57:03< YogiHH> corn: have a look at replay_controller.cpp, line 158, that should match the things you need
20090416 20:57:41< mordante> I'm off bye
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20090416 21:13:54< gabm> YogiHH: if you have any feedback on my application it would be welcome - in particular about the proposed schedule and milestone
20090416 21:14:10< gabm> *milestones
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20090416 21:15:04< YogiHH> gabm: i think i watched it and couldn't find something bad :-) . But i can check again. Did you do any changes after the 14th of April?
20090416 21:16:03 * gabm checking
20090416 21:16:09< gabm> YogiHH: nope
20090416 21:16:50< gabm> YogiHH: It's good you didn't find anything bad :) - but if there's something I can make even better...
20090416 21:17:34< YogiHH> gabm: i'll have another look at the timetable again
20090416 21:17:42< gabm> YogiHH: thx
20090416 21:18:05< gabm> afk for 5 min
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20090416 21:22:14< fendrin> hi
20090416 21:23:15< Soliton> hi fendrin
20090416 21:24:04< Soliton> fendrin: it's a good idea to test your changes before committing. ;-)
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20090416 21:24:17< fendrin> did I break something?
20090416 21:25:15< fendrin> Soliton: -^
20090416 21:25:50< YogiHH> corn: There is a minor thing about your patch: You use the "~" Operator for a boolean operation. I'd rather take "!" since it is meant to be a boolean and not a bitwise operation, although looking at the functionality it is probably no difference.
20090416 21:25:51< Crab_> fendrin: https://gna.org/bugs/?13380
20090416 21:26:00< Soliton> yeah, you forgot a NEXT after a FOREACH in r34816.
20090416 21:27:11 * fendrin is very sorry.
20090416 21:27:58 * zookeeper usually tests his changes after committing, if at all ;)
20090416 21:28:30< YogiHH> tests? What tests? ;-)
20090416 21:28:53< fendrin> I need to tune my setup. It's not that I am too lazo to test. I just sometimes use the wrong data dir because I have no alias or script. Or can I tell scons to use /usr/local/src/wesnoth/ for data dir? I fear that it will install in itself.
20090416 21:30:00< Soliton> you can give the data dir as a positional last parameter to wesnoth.
20090416 21:31:21< fendrin> Soliton: Thank you, that is what I do. I need to script that, often I just forget to add the parameter.
20090416 21:31:22< Soliton> i just noticed today that the automatic data dir detection seems to not have complete effect or something.
20090416 21:31:48< Soliton> at least i did start wesnoth from my checkout and it still must have used (some?) data from the install dir.
20090416 21:32:14< Soliton> on the other hand testing the fix to LOW worked without installing.
20090416 21:33:10< fendrin> Soliton: Do you know if setting the data dir to the source dir will work?
20090416 21:35:27< Soliton> fendrin: it should even do that automatically when you start it from there.
20090416 21:35:41< fendrin> Soliton: no, not for me.
20090416 21:35:55< Soliton> how do you start wesnoth?
20090416 21:36:07< Soliton> and what exactly do you mean with source dir?
20090416 21:37:04< fendrin> source dir is /usr/local/src/wesnoth_trunk the trunk checkout is located there. That is where I edit before commiting.
20090416 21:37:38< fendrin> I start wesnoth on a terminal emulator, mostly konsole.
20090416 21:37:59< fendrin> My parameters are --debug --nocache
20090416 21:38:44< fendrin> and, when developing a mainline campaign, it's /usr/local/wesnoth_trunk as last parameter.
20090416 21:39:38< YogiHH> gabm, around again?
20090416 21:39:47< gabm> yep, I'm back
20090416 21:39:56< YogiHH> gabm: ok, i took another look
20090416 21:40:31< gabm> YogiHH: what do you think?
20090416 21:41:10< YogiHH> gabm: i would shorten the get-to-know-everything and design phase by 2, maybe even 3 weeks. Not because it is not important, but because you already did some research and have at least a basic understanding about the problem domain.
20090416 21:41:44< noy> gabm:  I pmed you
20090416 21:42:18< gabm> YogiHH: It's good that you mention that, because I was precisely wondering if I left enough time for implementation vs "get-to-know-everything"
20090416 21:42:24< gabm> noy: on the forums?
20090416 21:43:12< YogiHH> gabm: I expect the questions i put up in the wiki and that you answered very thoroughly to be the central topics that this project will be about. There will probably appear some new issues along the way, but I doubt it will be anything taking a substantial amount of time to deal with.
20090416 21:43:30< Soliton> fendrin: well, looks like the data dir detection doesn't work right so just be sure to always give a data dir as parameter or install.
20090416 21:44:16< noy> No, on irc
20090416 21:45:05< YogiHH> gabm: Also, if you move along it will be difficult to make a distinction between single player and multiplayer. As savegames share a lot of information for both, you will be changing things for both as well, if you want it or not.
20090416 21:45:44< gabm> YogiHH: I think I'm gonna shorten that initial period, then
20090416 21:46:16< gabm> YogiHH: but as far as milestones go, I'd like to set some concrete ones - if not single vs multi, then what?
20090416 21:47:10< YogiHH> gabm: It will depend a lot on your style of working. I for instance, take a piece to finish and then very early go for testing it. I hardly write more than an hour of code without tests, unless the tests are very time consuming. If you do that the same way, you will probably end up working on single player and multiplayer in parallel.
20090416 21:48:14< YogiHH> gabm: you can take the "pieces" that came out of the wiki questions as milestones, for example.
20090416 21:48:37< gabm> YogiHH: ok, I'll think about this a bit - thanks for the feedback :)
20090416 21:48:45< YogiHH> you are welcome
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20090416 21:54:50< Soliton> someone want to review a patch by suokko? https://gna.org/patch/?1168
20090416 21:55:37< CIA-30> fendrin * r34969 /trunk/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/scenarios/14_Plunging_Into_the_Darkness.cfg: 
20090416 21:55:37< CIA-30> HttT 14: Changed shroud=yes to shroud=no.
20090416 21:55:37< CIA-30> This disables shroud for that scenario since the second code segment that tries to place shroud isn't working.
20090416 21:55:37< CIA-30> This was done to remove duplicate code and to create a tescase for bug #13382 .
20090416 21:55:38< Crab_> Soliton: patch only for trunk ?
20090416 21:56:15< Soliton> if you ask me for both but i don't mind much.
20090416 21:56:52< Crab_> imo, it's better to not backport this.
20090416 21:57:16< Crab_> because shroud updates affect possible undo moves
20090416 21:57:35< Soliton> it's not changing how it works.
20090416 21:58:04< zookeeper> fendrin, i'm not sure i understand the problem.
20090416 21:58:39< fendrin> zookeeper: httt scenario 14?
20090416 21:58:43< zookeeper> isn't the shroud in that scenario broken now, if there's no default shroud and it's manually placed in _some_ parts of the map and that doesn't work?
20090416 21:59:02< fendrin> zookeeper: yes, that scenario is broken in trunk at the moment.
20090416 21:59:03< Crab_> Soliton: well, i don't know enough about the moment when mp changes are replicated, so feel free to do as you wish )
20090416 21:59:04< zookeeper> i mean, even if the bug was fixed, wouldn't the shroud still be placed not everywhere?
20090416 21:59:36< fendrin> zookeeper: nearly everywhere.
20090416 22:00:01< fendrin> The terrain filter doesn't cover the whole map.
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20090416 22:00:33< fendrin> esr: ping
20090416 22:00:38< zookeeper> fendrin, well, ok...but once the bug is fixed the [place_shroud] should probably be removed and shroud=yes be used. i don't see any reason why you wouldn't want shroud everywhere.
20090416 22:00:39< Soliton> Crab_: it only makes it so that the option is the same for all of your sides. it's the same for the current side as before.
20090416 22:00:49< esr> fendrin: What's up?
20090416 22:01:22< Crab_> Soliton: are moves "replicated" to other network clients only after shroud updates are done ?
20090416 22:01:44< Crab_> (after undo no longer available)
20090416 22:01:48< Soliton> Crab_: yes.
20090416 22:01:50< zookeeper> urgh... "Picture in DOC-file" http://gna.org/bugs/?13377
20090416 22:01:52< fendrin> esr: Maybe you broke the place_shroud. It contains a location filter and that was broken for scenario 7 DM.
20090416 22:02:00< Crab_> Soliton: ok, then it's all ok.
20090416 22:02:15< Soliton> Crab_: that's the point of that option. :-)
20090416 22:02:21< esr> Oh?  Well, if you think you know how to fix it///
20090416 22:02:48< Soliton> zookeeper: yeah...
20090416 22:03:01< fendrin> zookeeper: agreed, I will change that after the bug is fixed.
20090416 22:03:19< YogiHH> Soliton: the patch looks good to me as well
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20090416 22:03:39< Soliton> YogiHH: apply to 1.6 as well?
20090416 22:04:26< YogiHH> no, it's not a bugfix
20090416 22:04:26< fendrin> esr: I have no idea how to fix it. It's just that location_filtering was broken and here is a tag that depends on location filtering and doesn't work as well.
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20090416 22:05:52< esr> fendrin: Wait, if you're talking about the location-filter bug I introduced, I fixed that and place_shroud still didn't work.  In fact I fixed it before we noticed the place_shroud bug.
20090416 22:08:52< fendrin> esr: What exactly was broken with the filtering?
20090416 22:10:35< esr> I tremporatily changed it so the "terrain" key didn't work :-(  I was changing the terrain definition tag from [terrain] to [terrain_type] at the time.
20090416 22:20:46< YogiHH> Ivanovic, Soliton: Is there any reason that with TINY_GUI, the game asks explicitly for a start-of-scenario save?
20090416 22:21:02< Ivanovic> ???
20090416 22:21:11 * Ivanovic knows nothing about tiny_gui specific stuff
20090416 22:21:37< Ivanovic> i don't even have any idea if it still works after the changes by mordante to switch the gui (partly) to pango...
20090416 22:21:57< YogiHH> Ivanovic: oops, i remember you talking about it in the past, so i guessed you were some kind of expert for it :-)
20090416 22:22:03< fendrin> Is there a way to get more wml processor output?
20090416 22:22:22< Ivanovic> once upon the time i was the one knowing something about small_gui
20090416 22:22:28< Ivanovic> but this changed radically, too
20090416 22:22:49< Soliton> YogiHH: no idea.
20090416 22:23:24< YogiHH> Ivanovic: could asking for automatic saves be because we don't want to take up precious disk space without confirmation on small devices?
20090416 22:23:40< Ivanovic> YogiHH: could be
20090416 22:23:48< Ivanovic> it could also be a case of someone missing this
20090416 22:24:30< YogiHH> Ivanovic: who would be the person to ask, mordante?
20090416 22:24:35< Ivanovic> but more because times to save could be rather long due to slow storage devices used
20090416 22:24:45< Ivanovic> maybe mordante knows, but i am not sure at all about this...
20090416 22:26:34 * YogiHH is going to start a forum poll about this :-P
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20090416 22:27:59< esr> fendrin: Still getting this error on DM7:
20090416 22:28:30< esr> fabi: Still getting thi s error on DM7:
20090416 22:28:35< esr> 0090416 16:11:57 error config: Illegal character in map: (Gs^Im2) 'Gs^Im2'
20090416 22:28:37< esr> 20090416 16:11:57 error config: map could not be loaded: Illegal character found in map. The scenario cannot be loaded.
20090416 22:29:01< esr> But it reloads anyway.  Should we rename those custom terrains somehow?
20090416 22:30:35< fabi> maybe the digit is illegal inside a terrain string.
20090416 22:30:46< fabi> zookeeper: is a digit illegal insade a terrain string?
20090416 22:30:54< fabi> s/insade/inside
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20090416 22:40:25< fabi> esr: I can't reproduce that. No error messages here. That's another savegame from a broken period.
20090416 22:40:44< zookeeper> fabi, well, they're used for starting positions
20090416 22:41:00< esr> fabi: No it isn't.  It's freash run of the campaign that I started last night.
20090416 22:41:23< zookeeper> so i don't know how the engine would treat them as part of a regular terrain string
20090416 22:41:41< esr> I restart last night *specifically* so that problem could not podssibly occur.
20090416 22:41:46< zookeeper> better not use them.
20090416 22:42:40< ilor_> ok guys, I'll be off from tomorrow morning (ie in around 8h) till Monday. If there are any last-minute stuff regarding my gsoc proposal, I'd prefer them either now or via email
20090416 22:43:09< ilor_> and for super-urgent stuff, well, pinging my cellphone will make me look for a net cafe and check my mail real quick ;)
20090416 22:43:35< ilor_> Ivanovic, mordante: ^
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20090416 22:50:58< CIA-30> zookeeper * r34970 /trunk/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/scenarios/17_Scepter_of_Fire.cfg: Enforce a 7-hex starting castle, should fix bug #13377.
20090416 22:52:37< CIA-30> zookeeper * r34971 /branches/1.6/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/scenarios/17_Scepter_of_Fire.cfg: Ported r34970 to 1.6.
20090416 22:53:32< fabi> zookeeper, esr: I still don't get why I can't reproduce the error messages.
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20090416 22:57:38< Ivanovic> ilor_: stuff is basically decided
20090416 22:57:49< Ivanovic> don't expect to hear anything till the student lists are announced
20090416 22:58:01< Ivanovic> (this is the same for every SoC candidate)
20090416 22:58:12< ilor_> Ivanovic: ok nice :)
20090416 23:03:35< cjhopman_> ha, i'll be off tomorrow morning until next wednesday
20090416 23:03:45< cjhopman_> flying to sweden for icpc world finals
20090416 23:04:10< YogiHH> fabi, esr: i remember that terrain code, it is from the generator stone of "DM - Night in the swamps", right? It loaded ok for me when i checked for the "event first-time-only problem".
20090416 23:04:36-!- cjhopman_ is now known as cjhopman
20090416 23:05:57< Ivanovic> cjhopman: have fun
20090416 23:06:03< Ivanovic> uhm, what is "icpc"?
20090416 23:06:48< shikadibot> international cup of pocker champions? :p
20090416 23:06:54< Crab_> Ivanovic: international college programming competition ?
20090416 23:07:09< cjhopman> international collegiate
20090416 23:07:11< Ivanovic> no idea, it could be *lots* of stuff, that is why i ask...
20090416 23:07:19< cjhopman> its a programming contest
20090416 23:07:51< cjhopman> im just pumped that everything is paid for
20090416 23:07:57< cjhopman> plane, hotel, food
20090416 23:08:55< Ivanovic> nice
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20090416 23:09:56< Ivanovic> and since they even got internet in some parts of sweden i guess that you will check the list of accpeted students on monday right at ~7pm utc (should be 9pm local time)
20090416 23:10:44< cjhopman> yeah, i'm sure i will
20090416 23:11:27< Ivanovic> and i think i will use this weekend to relax
20090416 23:11:41< Ivanovic> it is so nice not to have to reread many (long) proposals...
20090416 23:12:21< Ivanovic> without this time sink you suddenly gain so much free time, it is really amazing
20090416 23:12:22< Ivanovic> ;)
20090416 23:13:20 * Ivanovic has an idea for next years template: "Use correct English without abbriviations and keep the char count below 2000 for all of your answers"
20090416 23:13:26< Ivanovic> would really easy our work...
20090416 23:13:28< Ivanovic> ^^
20090416 23:14:30-!- noy [n=noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit ["Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info/"]
20090416 23:14:32< Crab_> Ivanovic: but won't you ask "please tell us more information" after reading these small 2000-char proposals :) ?
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20090416 23:15:42< Ivanovic> Crab_: but we would have learned from the verbose project proposals this year and see that this is too much of a time sink...
20090416 23:15:43< Ivanovic> ;)
20090416 23:15:51< YogiHH> Ivanovic: yes, and we will make wmllint check the proposal and reject everyone that exceeds the cut ;-)
20090416 23:16:03< Ivanovic> YogiHH: *perfect*
20090416 23:16:08 * cjhopman changes all the WML in his propose to Wesnoth Markup Language
20090416 23:16:11< CIA-30> fendrin * r34972 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/ (terrain-graphics/_final.cfg terrain.cfg utils/generators.cfg): DM: Removed the digits from the terrain for scenario 7 generators.
20090416 23:16:17< fabi> esr: -^
20090416 23:16:30< Crab_> YogiHH: with a special bonus to those students who quietly hack wmllint to check their proposal in a special way ?
20090416 23:17:06< YogiHH> Crab_: good point, we'll have to be more carefull with granting commit access, then :-)
20090416 23:17:12< cjhopman> lol
20090416 23:17:28< Crab_> YogiHH: I've already heard that. but it was on 1st april :)
20090416 23:17:38< YogiHH> hehe
20090416 23:17:45< Crab_> Ivanovic: yes, i guess that *both* mentors and students learn something during the gsoc... 
20090416 23:18:17 * Ivanovic thinks that last year there were not this many this long applications
20090416 23:18:22< Ivanovic> it was a lot less work...
20090416 23:18:54< fabi> How many of them can wesnoth accept?
20090416 23:19:18< Ivanovic> fabi: as always: not enough
20090416 23:19:19< Ivanovic> ;)
20090416 23:21:18< corn> Ivanovic: if things are already decided, should I bother changing my proposal anymore
20090416 23:21:26< corn> I keep putting it off because I hate writing anything documentation-like
20090416 23:21:48< Crab_> corn: documentation should be useful to you, as well...
20090416 23:21:58 * YogiHH feels sudden sympathy for corn ;-)
20090416 23:22:07< Crab_> corn: (and if it is not useful, why bother writing it ?)
20090416 23:22:16< Ivanovic> corn: the documentation you (once planned to) write might be usefull anyway
20090416 23:22:38< Ivanovic> that is: if you *were* accepted, would the documentation be helpful or not=
20090416 23:22:42< corn> Crab_: well in this particular case I have to pitch my ideas
20090416 23:22:46< corn> to me?
20090416 23:22:47< YogiHH> corn: i hate to say it, but Crab_ is right
20090416 23:23:12< YogiHH> and every other dev will love you for every line of documentation you provide
20090416 23:23:17< corn> heh
20090416 23:23:22< CIA-30> crab * r34973 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_actions.cpp ai_actions.hpp ai_interface.hpp): AI Refactoring: next version of recruit action (not yet used, but works ok)
20090416 23:24:21< corn> YogiHH: how can I access replays? I want to see these captions in-action
20090416 23:24:35< Ivanovic> corn: who should this documentation be useful for?
20090416 23:24:56< Ivanovic> basically the docs are for you, the mentor(s) and possible other people looking at them to get new and good ideas
20090416 23:25:20< Crab_> Ivanovic: to get *old* and good ideas :)
20090416 23:25:31< YogiHH> corn: load a savegame and check the "show replay" option
20090416 23:25:52< YogiHH> corn: have you seen my remark about the code showing how to access a button?
20090416 23:26:14< Ivanovic> Crab_: lets start with some fiction
20090416 23:26:15< corn> yes
20090416 23:26:35< Ivanovic> imagine we are now in the year 2012, some stats project was implemented, our wiki still exists, hell, even wesnoth still exists
20090416 23:27:16< Ivanovic> someone has a look at this old soc stuff and says to himself: "hey, there is a great idea in this that was not implemented yet, but it could even be improved by doing XYZ..."
20090416 23:27:35< Ivanovic> and then this (purely fictional!) person implements this new idea built upon some "old plans"
20090416 23:27:42< corn> YogiHH: just to make sure, what I want is the caption beneath the buttons like "continuous replay" to show up at the bottom of the screen
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20090416 23:27:55< corn> like when you hover over a button in the main menu
20090416 23:27:58< corn> not so much radio buttons
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20090416 23:28:22< Crab_> Ivanovic: yes, sounds good )
20090416 23:28:59< corn> YogiHH: that line seems to be related though, I am going to check out find_button()
20090416 23:28:59< Ivanovic> (yes, i like fictional novels ;) )
20090416 23:30:13< Crab_> 'once upon a time, somewhere in 2014, Crab stumbles upon a lone @todo in the code. "Hey, I've written that todo five years ago!", he says. "Let's see what I've wanted to do then..."   '
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20090416 23:30:53< Ivanovic> 5mins later he leaves the room and at the wall there is a red spot on the wall
20090416 23:31:00< Ivanovic> the shape of it reassembles his head
20090416 23:31:24< Ivanovic> the open question: what was written in this todo?
20090416 23:31:27< Crab_> 'and there's a note, which reads "some things are not supposed to be done"'
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20090416 23:37:53< Crab_> so, the moral of that story is "read documentation before, not after" :)
20090416 23:38:37< Ivanovic> Crab_: and the more important part is: "write documentation and make sure it makes sense!"
20090416 23:38:43< Crab_> yes
20090416 23:38:43< Ivanovic> ;)
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20090416 23:50:13< corn> where is the definition of gui::button? I can't find it
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20090416 23:50:36< corn> ah, widgets/button.hpp
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20090416 23:50:59< Ivanovic> corn: grep can work recursive ;)
20090416 23:51:06< corn> yeah
20090416 23:53:50< Ivanovic> in general i'd expect most gui stuff to be in src/widgets/
20090416 23:54:03< Ivanovic> and now it is time for me to head off to bed
20090416 23:54:10< corn> cya
20090416 23:54:20< Ivanovic> corn: beside this devdocs.wesnoth.org might help you
20090416 23:54:47< Ivanovic> (the doxygen stuff, might help finding the right files for the defitions)
20090416 23:54:55< corn> ah
20090416 23:55:00< corn> I was wondering if there was doxygen stuff
20090416 23:55:01< corn> thanks
20090416 23:55:25< Ivanovic> ah, if you ask yourself such questions, just ask the people in here
20090416 23:55:30< corn> ok
20090416 23:55:32< Ivanovic> you might get a useable answer
20090416 23:55:42< Ivanovic> ;)
20090416 23:55:46< YogiHH> Ivanovic: excellent idea, i am off, too :-)
20090416 23:55:51< YogiHH> night everyone
20090416 23:55:54< corn> ok
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20090416 23:56:00< Ivanovic> (okay, the answer could also be "ugh, doxygen, what is that? we don't comment...")
20090416 23:56:02< Ivanovic> ^^
20090416 23:56:03< Ivanovic> n8
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20090416 23:56:44< CIA-30> crab * r34974 /trunk/src/ai/ (5 files): 
20090416 23:56:44< CIA-30> AI refactoring: moved event objects location to ai_manager (no reason to keep
20090416 23:56:44< CIA-30> one copy per ai, since only playsingle_controller is an observer). Interface for
20090416 23:56:44< CIA-30> raising those events from the ai unchanged (no reason to change it)
--- Log closed Fri Apr 17 00:00:15 2009