--- Log opened Sat Apr 18 00:00:23 2009
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20090418 00:09:12-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Summer of Code info: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 49 bugs, 234 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090418 00:35:59< Ivanovic> n8
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20090418 00:46:44< CIA-30> mordante * r34993 /trunk/src/variable.hpp: Add some comment about an unsafe situation.
20090418 00:46:52< CIA-30> mordante * r34994 /trunk/src/upload_log.cpp: Change #define to const variable.
20090418 00:46:58< CIA-30> mordante * r34995 /trunk/src/filesystem.cpp: Change #define to const variable.
20090418 00:47:04< CIA-30> mordante * r34996 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 
20090418 00:47:04< CIA-30> Change #define to const variable.
20090418 00:47:04< CIA-30> This also fixes a bug since the default portnumber was somehow changed.
20090418 00:47:09< CIA-30> mordante * r34997 /trunk/src/leader_list.cpp: Fix a compiler warning for LOW_MEM.
20090418 00:47:15< CIA-30> mordante * r34998 /trunk/src/statistics_dialog.cpp: Fix a compiler warning for LOW_MEM.
20090418 00:47:22< CIA-30> mordante * r34999 /trunk/src/multiplayer_ui.cpp: Fix a compiler warning for USE_TINY_GUI.
20090418 00:47:39< CIA-30> mordante * r35000 /trunk/src/ (28 files in 5 dirs): Strip trailing whitespace.
20090418 00:47:52 * mordante slaps Ivanovic with the 1.6 RELEASE_NOTES http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=352725#p352725
20090418 00:49:59< corn> YogiHH: here now
20090418 00:50:50< mordante> corn, I'lll have a look at your patches tomorrow, I'm about to go to sleep
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20090418 00:52:02< corn> mordante: sure, that's fine
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20090418 00:59:27< Soliton> mordante: err, the default port for the campaign server is still 15003.
20090418 01:00:14< Soliton> but maybe it's better this way... just not much of a default.
20090418 01:00:36< mordante> <Soliton> 15003 is 1.6 and 15004 is trunk.
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20090418 01:01:12< Soliton> there is no default in my answer or your question. ;-)
20090418 01:01:50< mordante> well I only committed this to trunk ;-)
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20090418 01:02:27< Soliton> the port numbers are for the official addon server.
20090418 01:02:48< Soliton> the default port is for any addon server.
20090418 01:03:38< mordante> you think it's better to change it to 15003?
20090418 01:03:55< Soliton> well, that is the real default mentioned in all the documentation.
20090418 01:04:11< mordante> ok I'll modify it
20090418 01:04:35< Soliton> but the problem is that we use the port for the official server of the current server to connect to any server.
20090418 01:04:47< Soliton> which you kind of fixed there.
20090418 01:05:41< Soliton> but since the chance that someone else runs a campaign server on the default server and people get confused with the port number when connecting is low i ignored that.
20090418 01:05:55< Soliton> s/default server/default port/
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20090418 01:07:36< mordante> hmm yes, what do you propose to do?
20090418 01:07:43< Soliton> would be nice if we had a redirector like for wesnothd so we can keep the port to connect to stable.
20090418 01:08:12< Soliton> well, not sure. that's how far i got in thinking about it. :-)
20090418 01:08:20< mordante> :-)
20090418 01:08:53< Soliton> just displaying the actually used port when connecting to the official server might already help possible confusion.
20090418 01:09:06< mordante> I'm also not sure, but the same names for them was confusing
20090418 01:09:16< YogiHH> corn: any input you need from me?
20090418 01:09:21< Soliton> yeah, true.
20090418 01:09:35< mordante> (especially since the last modification was obscured in a larger commit which seemed unrelated)
20090418 01:09:58< mordante> I'll think about it tomorrow, off to bed now
20090418 01:10:10< mordante> night
20090418 01:10:17< Soliton> night
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20090418 01:10:18< YogiHH> night mordante
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20090418 01:11:10< corn> YogiHH: right now I am considering whether ot turn the pause thing into a button rather than an icon
20090418 01:11:22< corn> but there are a lot of issues with that
20090418 01:11:53< corn> there is no functionality for it in the mainline gui code so I would have to do it with the new gui code
20090418 01:12:06< corn> no functionality for hiding the button that is
20090418 01:12:26< YogiHH> ah, i see
20090418 01:12:32< corn> also people have been saying that the top-panel is already cramped
20090418 01:12:38< corn> no more space for extra indicators or buttons
20090418 01:12:47< YogiHH> which is true, yes
20090418 01:13:25< corn> hm
20090418 01:13:46< corn> so I think I'll make it an indicator and not a button
20090418 01:13:49< corn> but where should it be placed?
20090418 01:14:15< alink> corn: when observing the context menu is almost empty, maybe put it there like delay shroud update (which is somehow similar) ? but it's not very visible
20090418 01:15:17< corn> ok, I'll check that
20090418 01:15:42< alink> note that just open the context menu already provide a crude "pause" feature ;-p
20090418 01:15:57< corn> heh
20090418 01:16:02< corn> it's the exact same featuer
20090418 01:16:13< corn> i actually improved it by removing the extraneous play
20090418 01:16:19< corn> it will only show pause if you're not paused already
20090418 01:16:22< corn> otherwise it will show play
20090418 01:16:27< corn> but I want an extra indicator
20090418 01:16:33< corn> there is no indication that you're paused
20090418 01:16:39< corn> which is confusing
20090418 01:18:45< YogiHH> off to bed, too
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20090418 01:21:29< CIA-30> soliton * r35001 /trunk/data/campaigns/Northern_Rebirth/scenarios/05a_The_Pursuit.cfg: typo fix
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20090418 01:28:21< alink> corn: when observing, the end turn button is disabled. Maybe change it to "Observing" and "Paused" (but still disabled). And you could reuse the code of linger mode which already change it.
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20090418 01:28:52 * alink is just throwing crazy ideas ;)
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20090418 01:30:04< alink> there is also these text displayed on the middle of the screen like in tutorial. Maybe just use this to show a big "Paused"
20090418 01:30:17< alink> but i don't know how this feature work
20090418 01:32:47< alink> other idea: the top bar's flag icon indicate who is playing. Change its status to indicate if you are waiting that the current player finish his turn or if you are in pause
20090418 01:33:27< alink> for example: animate the flag when playing and freeze it when pausing
20090418 01:33:36< alink> but need new art
20090418 01:34:13< alink> i suppose that animate thing there is possible since the time is already updated 
20090418 01:36:05< alink> other idea: possibly confusing, but reuse the linger mode effect on the map, which somehow already pause the game to let you do UI stuff.
20090418 01:38:45< alink> afk
20090418 01:38:46< Soliton> a big "Paused" text overlayed sounds good to me.
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20090418 01:41:58< corn> Soliton: do you mean a window that says paused?
20090418 01:42:44< corn> I think I am going to change the text of the end turn button
20090418 01:42:53< Soliton> no. as alink said like in the tutorial.
20090418 01:43:04< corn> hm. I don't really remember it
20090418 01:43:06< corn> I'll check it out now
20090418 01:43:47< Soliton> using the end turn button for toggling is a good idea, too. yes.
20090418 01:44:09< corn> I don't think you can change the action of a button at run time though
20090418 01:44:14< corn> I checked it out
20090418 01:44:55< corn> I like the overlay in the tutorial though, I'll check out how that's done
20090418 01:45:34< Soliton> well, the end turn button does different things in linger mode.
20090418 01:48:27< corn> true
20090418 01:48:37< corn> I remember looking at that in playmp_controller, I'll check again
20090418 01:54:45< alink> about the 'end turn' button, I initially said "but still disabled" to prevent false 'end turn' click. But I think now that the warning about not moved unit will prevent this rare case
20090418 01:55:14< Soliton> you mean when you just got control?
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20090418 01:55:37< alink> yeah just when you were about to pause, he finish his turn
20090418 01:55:44< Soliton> that also pops up the objectives which might invalidate the click anyway, not sure though.
20090418 01:56:07< Soliton> oh, you can pause as a player?
20090418 01:56:16< alink> that pop up the objectives ?
20090418 01:56:36< Soliton> when you get handed control of a side, yes.
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20090418 02:18:17< corn> hm
20090418 02:18:35< corn> I didn't figure out how to change the logic for the end turn button, I did manage to change the text in it though
20090418 02:19:18< corn> I'll put patch up on patches.wesnoth.org
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20090418 02:27:34< corn> https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1167#cc
20090418 02:27:43< corn> 5648 is the most recent patch
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20090418 02:33:57< Crab_> corn, see src/hotkeys.cpp:692
20090418 02:50:06< corn> which goes to playsingle_controller.cpp:118
20090418 02:50:39< corn> Crab_: thanks
20090418 02:50:54< Crab_> np. just a little fgrepping )
20090418 02:53:54< corn> heh
20090418 02:53:59< corn> isn't it like 2 am where you are right now
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20090418 02:54:07< Crab_> 3:52 am )
20090418 02:54:10< corn> ah
20090418 02:54:11< corn> even better
20090418 02:54:15< Crab_> yes )
20090418 02:54:34< corn> te nehochech spat?
20090418 02:54:39< corn> I know a little russian :p
20090418 02:55:28< Crab_> he-he ) Ukrainian, not russian ) Although I know russian well, of course )
20090418 02:55:47< corn> mmm
20090418 02:56:03< corn> I was born in ukraine and immigrated at an early age, but my parents only speak russian at home
20090418 02:56:14< Crab_> wow ) 
20090418 02:58:57< Crab_> most people here know two these languages, and just switch depending on whom they are talking. Russian is prevalent among older people, ukrainian among younger...
20090418 02:59:26< corn> schools teach in ukrainian?
20090418 03:01:19< Crab_> Here - yes, although there are some teachers which use russian, even in universities. It also depends on the region. Eastern parts of Ukraine mostly use russian, western - mostly use ukrainian.
20090418 03:01:52< corn> ah
20090418 03:02:12< Crab_> for example, most of the street advertisements in Kiev are in ukrainian, most of the street advertisements in Donetsk are in russian. But most of the people know these two languages quite well.
20090418 03:02:21< corn> hm, my current patch is bugged for when observers switch in for players
20090418 03:02:27< corn> well, they're pretty similar
20090418 03:02:55< Crab_> corn: yes. and in rural areas people speak using a mix-in of those two languages )
20090418 03:09:34< corn> question
20090418 03:09:57< corn> I am not very familiar with c++ class inheritance. is playmp_controller a child of playsingle_controller?
20090418 03:10:22< Crab_> yes
20090418 03:10:30< corn> can I do a function override
20090418 03:10:38< corn> and redfine a function with the same params in the cihld
20090418 03:10:46< Crab_> you can override any function which is virtual
20090418 03:11:03< corn> yep, it is
20090418 03:11:03< corn> ok
20090418 03:11:04< corn> thanks
20090418 03:11:07< Crab_> for inheritance, look at  playmp_controller.hpp
20090418 03:11:13< Crab_> and look at "class playmp_controller : public playsingle_controller, public events::pump_monitor' line
20090418 03:11:28< corn> how does multiple inheritance work?
20090418 03:11:31< corn> it is disallowed in java
20090418 03:12:05< Crab_> if no method signatures "overlap", all is ok
20090418 03:12:15< corn> and if they do?
20090418 03:12:29< Crab_> if they do overlap, then some funny syntax can be used to access a specific function
20090418 03:12:36< corn> heh
20090418 03:12:37< corn> ok
20090418 03:12:38< corn> thanks a lot
20090418 03:13:52< Crab_> see http://www.deitel.com/articles/cplusplus_tutorials/20060225/virtualBaseClass/
20090418 03:15:11< corn> ok, I'll check out after I incorporate some changes into this patch
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20090418 03:29:04< corn> Crab_: ok, I think I've hit the technical barrier of this hack
20090418 03:29:12< corn> maybe not actually
20090418 03:29:20< corn> I need to change the label in the right click menu now as well
20090418 03:29:24< corn> from end turn to pause
20090418 03:32:17< Crab_> and what is the problem with that ?
20090418 03:36:17< corn> I don't think it's being done anywhere in the code. when you enter linger mode it still displays end turn
20090418 03:36:52< Crab_> well, the actual list may is probably fetched from wml, but it is constructed in the code..
20090418 03:37:09< Crab_> mouse_handler::right_click_show_menu in src/mouse_events.cpp:335
20090418 03:37:37< Crab_> this function is called by the code that constructs this menu
20090418 03:37:43< corn> ok, thanks
20090418 03:38:36< Crab_> and the actual show_menu call is in  src/controller_base.cpp:80
20090418 03:40:20< Crab_> and the content of that menu is controlled by data/themes/default.cfg:141
20090418 03:40:35< corn> Crab_: you're an amazing help
20090418 03:40:59< Crab_> corn: only fgrep used, it is 1st time I see this code.
20090418 03:41:15< Crab_> oh, and gdb a bit, too. to test the theories
20090418 03:43:41< corn> ok, if I change context_menu()->items it will display properly
20090418 03:43:41< corn> thnaks
20090418 03:44:23< Crab_> corn: yes. but note that WML can add context menu items on the fly, so context_menu()->items is not that static...
20090418 03:44:50< Crab_> corn: through you'll probably get away with just hacking a bit with those menu items you need
20090418 03:45:04< corn> the next thing I need to handle is the observer->player transition
20090418 03:45:17< corn> right now I am hacking buttons and soon menus for observers but observers can transition back to players
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20090418 03:48:42< Crab_> corn: and that is probably in server/game.cpp:331 ( game::transfer_side_control function )
20090418 03:49:30< Crab_> note that there is a player->observer transition, as well (at least in code)
20090418 03:50:50< Crab_> (that is the server part of it)
20090418 03:52:22< Crab_> client part of it is in playturn.cpp:140 
20090418 03:53:46< corn> thanks
20090418 03:53:57< Crab_> np
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20090418 04:12:39< Crab_> night
20090418 04:12:44< corn> Crab_: cya, thanks a lot
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20090418 06:09:12-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Summer of Code info: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 50 bugs, 234 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090418 08:21:50< mordante> hi
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20090418 08:52:45< silene> hi
20090418 08:59:15< Blueblaze> hey silene
20090418 08:59:29< mordante> hi silene 
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20090418 10:09:47< Ivanovic> moin
20090418 10:13:04< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
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20090418 10:36:22< CIA-30> silene * r35002 /trunk/src/ (game_events.cpp game_events.hpp): Removed unused code.
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20090418 11:16:19< heinz> good morning.  there seems to be something wrong with the logic towards the end of a game. right now I have a game where I can't 'droid 3' ("can't droid networked side 3") and 'control 3 ...' gives me a "that's already ...'s side, silly'
20090418 11:16:32< heinz> am I doing something wrong here?
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20090418 11:20:42< Soliton> hard to say since you left out the critical parts.
20090418 11:21:34< heinz> Soliton: ask questions ;-)
20090418 11:22:05< heinz> 3 left, control was transfered to 2, 2 left too, was droided
20090418 11:22:32< heinz> 1 left, was droided. 4 remains, with 1 and 2 under control
20090418 11:22:55< heinz> 3 is not 'droidable', and not under control
20090418 11:23:07< heinz> urm.. switch 1 and 4 ...
20090418 11:24:16< Soliton> what did 2 do with 3?
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20090418 11:24:46< heinz> I don't know, probably nothing, as he left only a few seconds later
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20090418 11:25:42< Soliton> and you were not asked what to do with 3 when 2 left?
20090418 11:27:26< heinz> I don't remember. If I was asked I'd asnwered 'AI', since there 2 was the last existing opponent (Isar...)
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20090418 11:29:05< heinz> Soliton: ah.. in the log: ... takes control of side 2. .. droids side 2.
20090418 11:30:00< Soliton> that's what you already said.
20090418 11:31:11< heinz> Soliton: ok, before that there was: foobar takes control of side 3.  so after all it looks like I wasn't asked
20090418 11:32:54< Soliton> you've taken control of all sides.
20090418 11:33:30< Soliton> so now you can not move side 3?
20090418 11:36:10< Soliton> so it seems your client got confused when it got control of side 3 and then shortly after side 2.
20090418 11:36:27< heinz> the 'overview' shows  'foobar' for sides 1,2,4, 'aaa' for 3. it's 4's turn, 'end turn' is greyed out
20090418 11:37:48< Soliton> well, it shows all sides as foobar here.
20090418 11:38:17< heinz> ok... out-of-sync then ;-}
20090418 11:38:54< Soliton> yes, your client somehow ignored one side drop message.
20090418 11:40:10< heinz> btw, I noticed also in other 1.6 games that directly giving control to another player when asked the droid/local player/some other player question does not transfer control, but droids
20090418 11:41:16< heinz> using ':control' after that works, though, but is a bit nasty if AI got its turn in the mean time and does something the would-be owner does not agree with
20090418 11:42:54< Soliton> try upgrading to 1.6.1 there was some bg fixed with that dialog.
20090418 11:43:09< heinz> ok
20090418 11:43:46< heinz> Soliton: is that in the 1.6 svn branch?
20090418 11:44:02< Soliton> you don't have any error messages from the server after you got control of side 3?
20090418 11:44:11< Soliton> yes.
20090418 11:44:12< heinz> let me check
20090418 11:46:12< heinz> ah, directly after 'foobar takes control of side 3' there is a 'Player/Observer not in this game'
20090418 11:47:55< Soliton> right, you probably gave control to 2 which had already left.
20090418 11:48:37< Soliton> and then your client thought 2 has control but the server didn't and didn't send you another drop message.
20090418 11:48:47< Soliton> i think that's fixed now.
20090418 11:48:58< heinz> the 'foobar takes control of side 2' follows after that
20090418 11:49:04< heinz> some kind of race
20090418 11:49:39< heinz> incidentally, I seem to be able to select parts of the log, but not to cut&paste it to somewhere else
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20090418 11:50:11< Soliton> yeah, that's broken since forever.
20090418 11:50:31< heinz> I guess that would help in such situations ;-)
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20090418 12:51:29< CIA-30> silene * r35003 /trunk/src/ (game_events.cpp game_events.hpp): Removed the mutated_, skip_messages_, and rebuild_screen_ fields from class game_events::event_handler, as they do not have the same lifetime.
20090418 12:51:33< CIA-30> silene * r35004 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: Removed handler parameter: if the event was called ten times in a row, it most certainly wasn't first_time_only=yes, no need to query the handler about it.
20090418 12:51:38< CIA-30> silene * r35005 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Removed the need for an event_handler when firing event actions.
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20090418 12:54:47< Baufo> hello all
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20090418 13:07:52< mordante> hi Baufo 
20090418 13:08:06< Baufo> hey mordante 
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20090418 13:48:05< CIA-30> silene * r35006 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: Removed some config::get_children.
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20090418 14:05:54< mordante> corn, around?
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20090418 14:38:36< mordante> Soliton, regarding the default port 15003 for the addon server is that documented somewhere?
20090418 14:47:16< Soliton> mordante: actually it looks like it is only at a couple of places in the wiki.
20090418 14:48:15< Soliton> for example the FAQ... which is badly out of date.
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20090418 14:59:30< mordante> both pages in the wiki seem outdated
20090418 14:59:48< mordante> so I think it's safe to keep both at 15004
20090418 15:00:52< Soliton> alright.
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20090418 15:20:30< Polarina> If someone has a Windows installation of Wesnoth, where would one put the .mo files?
20090418 15:23:21< loonycyborg> In installdir/translations
20090418 15:24:01< Polarina> For example, C:\Program Files\Wesnoth\translations\wesnoth-lib\en_GB.po ?
20090418 15:24:09< Polarina> s/.po/.mo/
20090418 15:24:54< mordante> loonycyborg, about the windows crash, 18W and / crashed and 18W and \ didn't (or the other way around)
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20090418 15:28:12< CIA-30> mordante * r35007 /branches/1.7/: Add branch for current trunk.
20090418 15:29:01< Ivanovic> mordante: uhm, do i have to understand this new branch?
20090418 15:29:11< Ivanovic> Polarina: basically as under linux, too
20090418 15:29:39< Ivanovic> translations/en_GB/LC_MESSAGES/wesnoth-lib.mo
20090418 15:29:49< Ivanovic> for the file po/wesnoth-lib/en_GB.po
20090418 15:31:14< Polarina> Ivanovic: If I just save the .po file in Windows, will it automatically take effect in the game?
20090418 15:31:22< Ivanovic> no, not at all
20090418 15:31:34< Polarina> So, I have to save the .mo file?
20090418 15:31:36< Ivanovic> because you have to have the file in the correct folder and compiled to mo
20090418 15:32:22< mordante> Ivanovic, it's the announcement that the wescamp translations for trunk will be in branches/1.7 ;-)
20090418 15:32:39< Ivanovic> ah, right
20090418 15:32:48< Ivanovic> so they won't be in wescamp but in mainline?
20090418 15:32:58< Ivanovic> since you added something to *mainline*, not wescamp
20090418 15:33:05< Ivanovic> wescamp is at berlios
20090418 15:33:43< CIA-30> mordante * r35008 /branches/1.7/: Remove accidental commit.
20090418 15:33:52< Ivanovic> :)
20090418 15:34:20< mordante> no was just an copy paste error of the path 
20090418 15:36:40< mordante> Ivanovic, can you update gettext.w.o to look at branches/1.7 for trunk 
20090418 15:37:07< Ivanovic> mordante: uhm, let me see
20090418 15:40:27< loonycyborg> mordante: 18W\ didn't crash.
20090418 15:42:20< Polarina> Ivanovic: How do I make poedit compile a .po file into .mo?
20090418 15:42:21< Ivanovic> mordante: done incl. g.w.o on the website
20090418 15:42:22< CIA-30> ivanovic * r35009 /branches/resources/gettext.wesnoth.org/public_html/wesnoth-gettext/westats/config.php: change the folder where g.w.o looks up the trunk addon data
20090418 15:42:30< loonycyborg> Actually, it's 17 :/
20090418 15:42:43< Ivanovic> Polarina: in the options there is some "create .mo when saving" optoin
20090418 15:42:54< Ivanovic> you still have to copy the file into the correct folder
20090418 15:42:59< Polarina> Ivanovic: Ok, thanks.
20090418 15:43:14< mordante> thanks Ivanovic 
20090418 15:43:52< mordante> loonycyborg, odd I just looked here and 17W + / and 17W + \ has the same width (18W as well :-/)
20090418 15:45:46< loonycyborg> What does it have to do with width?
20090418 15:46:51< loonycyborg> It seems that if you type in some 'good' char, like '\', it won't crash no matter how many characters you type.
20090418 15:47:30< mordante> that at a certain width a part of the text should be replaced by ellipses instead of the actual text so that the text doesn't get out of the canvas
20090418 15:48:27< mordante> so the most obvious explanation would be that the texts slightly differ in width
20090418 15:49:29< loonycyborg> If it doesn't crash, the cursor position seems to be screwed after you type too much chars.
20090418 15:50:21-!- Crab_ [n=Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090418 15:50:24< Crab_> hi
20090418 15:50:28< mordante> hi Crab_ 
20090418 15:50:57< loonycyborg> Once the widget overflows, it puts cursor at the start of string.
20090418 15:51:52< mordante> loonycyborg, interesting can you post a screenshot of that?
20090418 15:54:14< loonycyborg> Before: http://imagebin.org/46005
20090418 15:54:33< loonycyborg> After: http://imagebin.org/46006
20090418 15:55:08< loonycyborg> That is after typing few chars past its limit.
20090418 15:57:18< mordante> hmm that looks very interesting (of course doesn't happen on linux) does the cursor jump back in one big jump or small steps backwards
20090418 15:57:18< Ivanovic> mordante: looks like you have to contact torangan, so that the po files are created/migrated
20090418 15:57:35< Ivanovic> cf the stats for 1.6 wescamp: http://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/index.lang.php?lang=de&version=branch
20090418 15:57:42< Ivanovic> there are campaigns but (so far) no po files
20090418 15:57:58< mordante> Ivanovic, I will already discussed this more I did with him
20090418 15:58:05< Ivanovic> ah, okay
20090418 15:59:06< loonycyborg> mordante: It jumps right to start after overflowing and moves forward as more characters are entered.
20090418 16:00:18< mordante> ok thanks for that piece of information, still no clue why it happens but I start to suspect another piece of code
20090418 16:00:59< loonycyborg> And new characters still appear at end of widget, not at cursor.
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20090418 16:11:43< mordante> loonycyborg, can you test whether this cursor removal patch fixes the problem? http://paste.debian.net/33877/
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20090418 16:31:09< loonycyborg> mordante: This fixes the crash but eliminates the cursor.
20090418 16:32:18< mordante> loonycyborg, that was the goal of the patch ;-) but now I know where to look further
20090418 16:32:40< mordante> I'll look at some more debug patches later
20090418 16:40:12< CIA-30> silene * r35010 /trunk/src/ (game_events.cpp game_events.hpp): Aggregated game_events resources so that other files dealing with events can access them too.
20090418 16:40:17< CIA-30> silene * r35011 /trunk/src/ (game_events.cpp scripting/lua.cpp scripting/lua.hpp): Removed registry hacks now that event resources are visible.
20090418 16:40:21< CIA-30> silene * r35012 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Added Lua wesnoth.get_side function for accessing team data.
20090418 16:40:24< CIA-30> silene * r35013 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: Exercised Lua team getters.
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20090418 16:40:26< CIA-30> silene * r35014 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Added some more Lua accessors to team data.
20090418 16:40:30< CIA-30> silene * r35015 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: Exercised Lua team setters.
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20090418 16:56:40< boucman> hey all
20090418 16:56:59< Crab_> hi boucman
20090418 16:58:06< boucman> hey Crab_
20090418 16:58:15< boucman> how's everything ?
20090418 16:58:34< Crab_> boucman: good :)
20090418 16:59:59< Polarina> Yay!
20090418 17:02:59< Crab_> boucman: are you, by chance, familiar with recruiting_preferred_ hack in default_ai ?
20090418 17:03:02< Polarina> sudo scons install doesn't install updated .po files on branches/1.6
20090418 17:03:15< boucman> no, but I can have a look
20090418 17:03:28< mordante> hi boucman 
20090418 17:03:50< boucman> hey mordante what's up ?
20090418 17:04:43< mordante> I had a look at corn's patch and also think the level and xp ordering should be independent 
20090418 17:05:12< mordante> maybe it would be nice if you can group on level and then sort on other fields
20090418 17:05:42< mordante> I pinged corn but he's no around yet
20090418 17:08:40< boucman> Crab_: ok, I had a quick look, do you have a question about it ?
20090418 17:08:56< Crab_> boucman: yes. i was trying to understand its exact purpose
20090418 17:11:27< boucman> ouch this is ugly
20090418 17:11:38< boucman> you have intermangled recursivity in there...
20090418 17:12:58< Crab_> it was added by suokko in r29463
20090418 17:13:28 * mordante gets scared
20090418 17:13:41< boucman> wesbot: log 29463
20090418 17:13:42< wesbot> suokko * r29463 : * Made AI to prefer recruiting over attacking/village grapping
20090418 17:13:46< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=29463
20090418 17:13:59< boucman> ok, that might be a clue
20090418 17:14:04< Crab_> but its original purpose is now not the same (it looks cleaner in that rev than today)
20090418 17:16:48< boucman> I think the key is line 1156
20090418 17:17:20< boucman> the point is to guarentee that the leader will recruit before leaving its keep
20090418 17:19:13< boucman> 1 means we want to recruit, 2 means we are on a keep, 0 means we are done recruiting
20090418 17:19:44< Crab_> boucman: thanks
20090418 17:19:58< boucman> but since the attack phase is before the recruit phase in do_move, and because of the recursive structure of do_move, we need a way to tell the attack phase to skip the leader
20090418 17:20:02< boucman> Crab_: np
20090418 17:21:04< Crab_> 2 is not guaranteed 'on keep', by the way
20090418 17:21:14< Crab_> see line 1093
20090418 17:21:45< boucman> Crab_: if after a call do move_leader_to_keep, the leader still has MP left, it is assumed we are on a keep
20090418 17:22:00< Crab_> yes. it is *assumed*
20090418 17:22:02< boucman> (that assumption might not be true, but the purpose is still there)
20090418 17:22:18< Crab_> ok
20090418 17:22:18< boucman> :)
20090418 17:22:49< Crab_> it is interesting to note that the code doesn't *recruit* at that point :)
20090418 17:23:03< Crab_> I mean, if we are on keep, why not just recruit ?
20090418 17:23:27< boucman> that's a pretty complicated design, and I have a nagging feeling that "design" is a polite word for "hack" here
20090418 17:23:36< Crab_> hehe )
20090418 17:25:45-!- Pietro_S_ [n=sobotkap@tom.bn-ulm.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090418 17:25:47< Pietro_S_> hello
20090418 17:26:30< Pietro_S_> what does scons parameter - python_site_packages_dir? That's absolute path or relative (and relative to what)?
20090418 17:26:35< Crab_> boucman: and note 978 -> 918
20090418 17:27:27< boucman> hmm
20090418 17:27:33< Crab_> boucman: if we are in do_move, and if we have a leader, and recruiting_preferred_==2,  then recruiting_preferred_ is set to 0
20090418 17:27:47< Crab_> boucman: and this is the very beginning of do_move
20090418 17:28:28< boucman> yes, before do_combat
20090418 17:28:41< boucman> i'm confused too
20090418 17:28:41< Crab_> yes
20090418 17:29:05< boucman> hmm, well, I still think I understand the intent, I just... don't understand how it can work
20090418 17:29:11< Crab_> so, that 1156 " if (recruiting_preferred_)" has no chance to fire ?
20090418 17:29:30< Crab_> or (only if we have recruiting_preferred_=1 )
20090418 17:29:54< loonycyborg> Pietro_S_: It's relative to prefix.
20090418 17:29:59< boucman> Crab_: it can fire if recruiting_preferred_ == 1
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20090418 17:30:13< Crab_> maybe, recruiting_preferred_==2 means "we are done recruiting" and recruiting_preferred_==1 means 'we want to recruit" ?
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20090418 17:30:26< boucman> lemme check
20090418 17:31:05< boucman> in that case I don't understand line 1093
20090418 17:31:18< boucman> at that point we have moved to keep but not recruited
20090418 17:31:30< boucman> we havn't recruited either at line 1106, btw
20090418 17:31:52< Crab_> boucman: 1106 is ok
20090418 17:32:01< boucman> yeah, my bad
20090418 17:32:01< Crab_> boucman: "we tried"
20090418 17:32:33< Crab_> boucman: and 1093 is strange indeed
20090418 17:33:05< mordante> silene, I got curious when looking at r35015; doesn't lua have a += syntax? eg team.gold += 500; instead of team.gold = team.gold + 500;
20090418 17:33:20< boucman> also note the move_leader_to_goal does some recruitement between the evaluation and the block we are looking at...
20090418 17:33:25< boucman> I just don't get it
20090418 17:34:04< Crab_> 1093 will work anyway
20090418 17:34:10< Crab_> because ai::move_unit also tries to recruit
20090418 17:34:14< loonycyborg> Polarina: Do you mean .mo files?
20090418 17:34:23< Crab_> so, if the leader got on keep, he'll recruit eventually
20090418 17:34:35< Crab_> it is just 1093 does no good
20090418 17:34:35< boucman> ...
20090418 17:34:41< boucman> I don't like that
20090418 17:35:06< Pietro_S_> loonycyborg: then it's relativnes doesn't work on solaris - I get path in /lib/python instead of /usr/lib/python ...
20090418 17:35:13< Polarina> loonycyborg: Yes.
20090418 17:36:01< Crab_> boucman: it is there, maybe, to prevent infinite loop of do_move -> set recruiting_preferred_ to 1 -> skip leader moves -> move_leader_to_keep -> do_move ->...
20090418 17:36:55< boucman> it's specifically for the case where the leader did move, and still has MP
20090418 17:36:55< loonycyborg> Polarina: I've recently fixed a bug in trunk that caused translations not to be installed if they didn't exist before. Perhaps that's it?
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20090418 17:37:16< boucman> Crab_: you told me that I couldn't assume after a move_leader_to_keep that the leader was on a keep
20090418 17:37:27< boucman> could this be a workaround for that case ?
20090418 17:37:34< Polarina> loonycyborg: I'm using the branch.
20090418 17:38:02< loonycyborg> Did it build the translations?
20090418 17:38:04< Crab_> boucman: you could assume (it is so in most cases,if we moved in move_leader_to_keep) . you'll just depend on it (interrupted move, for example, or wml event)
20090418 17:38:34< Polarina> loonycyborg: I had to do  sudo scons install translations  to get them installed.
20090418 17:38:41< Crab_> (map_.is_keep(leader->first) is a better way of checking that
20090418 17:39:17< Crab_> and yes, you are right, if the leader has moved, then no infinite loops are possible (since leader has spent MP)
20090418 17:40:59< Crab_> and note that this code is not in the original suokko's commit..
20090418 17:41:21< boucman> Crab_: do you have the rev number for that one handy ?
20090418 17:41:31< Crab_> looking for it atm
20090418 17:42:05< loonycyborg> Pietro_S_: What if you try absolute path? It should work too :P
20090418 17:42:14< Crab_> r29484 has some more
20090418 17:42:42< boucman> wesbot: log 29484
20090418 17:42:43< wesbot> suokko * r29484 : * Merged formula ai to default ai (formula makes moves first and handles recruiting if scenario includes formulas)
20090418 17:42:49< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=29484
20090418 17:43:53< Crab_> then in 29497 recruiting_prefered_ ==2 appears
20090418 17:44:16< boucman> wesbot: log 29497
20090418 17:44:17< wesbot> suokko * r29497 : Fix forever loop if AI has too much gold when recruiting
20090418 17:44:20< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=29497
20090418 17:44:33< boucman> haha, that might be a clue too...
20090418 17:44:50< Crab_> boucman: this explains 1105
20090418 17:44:54< Pietro_S_> loonycyborg: if I try absolute path it doesn't work - right now testing relative path
20090418 17:45:10< Crab_> since now do_recruitment()  returns false if no recruits were made
20090418 17:45:43< boucman> yes
20090418 17:46:20< boucman> ok, the point of ==2 is to skip the whole evaluate_recruiting_value
20090418 17:46:45< boucman> so we keep previous values of whatever variables it had set previously
20090418 17:47:13< Crab_> to guarantee recruiting_prefered_ ==0
20090418 17:47:34< Crab_> since evaluate_recruiting_value sets recruiting_prefered_>0 if there's possibility for recruiting
20090418 17:47:44< boucman> ok
20090418 17:47:48< Crab_> this guarantees that combat moves will be considered by leader
20090418 17:48:04< boucman> so it's means "next move should not be a recruit" ?
20090418 17:48:20< Crab_> yes
20090418 17:48:37< Pietro_S_> loonycyborg: ok, when I use relative path, it's not created at all - no python files to deliver?
20090418 17:49:46< loonycyborg> Are you passing install-pytools target?
20090418 17:51:22< Crab_> ah, here it is - r29506
20090418 17:51:32< boucman> wesbot: log 29506
20090418 17:51:33< wesbot> suokko * r29506 : Some more improvements to AI movement and attack selection
20090418 17:51:36< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=29506
20090418 17:51:57< Crab_> so, this is called "Some more improvements to AI movement and attack selection" )
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20090418 17:53:01< Crab_> that's all with the history ( then this piece of code was reverted by esr, and later it was recommitted by esr again (after fixing those ai bugs) )
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20090418 17:55:06< mordante> loonycyborg, can you apply this patch on top of the previous one? http://paste.debian.net/33883/
20090418 17:55:07< Crab_> it was quite clear before that commit ( if we are not passive, move to keep, and if we end up on keep, try to recruit, and if failed, next move should nt be a recruiting)
20090418 17:55:19< Crab_> s/nt/not
20090418 17:55:42< mordante> loonycyborg, then I'm interested in the output of the typing 17W's a \ backspace /
20090418 17:56:31< mordante> line 196 in text.cpp might be a hint what goes wrong ;-)
20090418 17:57:12< Pietro_S_> loonycyborg: in install phase? or when I build?
20090418 17:58:11< loonycyborg> In install phase.
20090418 17:58:53< Crab_> boucman: note that 'move_leader_to_keep' used (uses) move_unit, not move_unit_partial, so if move_unit was a success, then MPs of the leader should be 0. so, that piece of code is come kind of reaction to interrupted moves
20090418 18:01:28< loonycyborg> mordante: http://rafb.net/p/rMD7p098.html
20090418 18:02:14< silene> mordante: no, it doesn't
20090418 18:04:07< Crab_> boucman: namely, "if leaders move is interrupted while we were trying to get to the keep, then do another move , but this next move should not be a recruiting, even if we originally wanted to recruit"
20090418 18:04:29< boucman> makes sense
20090418 18:04:35< boucman> a bit hackish, but makes sense
20090418 18:04:48< boucman> (you might want to add a comment in the code at that point :P
20090418 18:05:13< Crab_> I want to use ai_action_result's  there to write it in a saner way
20090418 18:05:46< Crab_> if (move_result.move_was_interrupted()) { ... } seems nicer to me
20090418 18:06:16< boucman> Crab_: ok
20090418 18:06:33< boucman> do you have a way to test your change at this point ? 
20090418 18:07:10-!- niadh [n=niadh@nsabfw1.nsab.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090418 18:07:18< niadh> Hi all, I
20090418 18:07:27< Crab_> thanks for helping to understand this hack. For testing, i intend to fork that code by time I finish my ai_action_results.
20090418 18:07:45< niadh> m one of the gsoc  students, I feel like i owe you guys an appology for being inactive
20090418 18:08:06< boucman> Crab_: np
20090418 18:08:07< Crab_> i do not want to replace old ai movement routines, i want to *add* new and test them using a fork of default ai code.
20090418 18:08:16< boucman> i'll be afk for ~15'
20090418 18:08:16< Polarina> How do I 'diff' PO files efficiently, to see what has been changed in one PO file compared to another (that is, ignoring changes in comments or formation on msgid strings (adding real \n on it that aren't visible in the game))?
20090418 18:08:32< niadh> I have sadly been looking after my friend who has had to attend both her father and grandfathers funeral in the space of a few months
20090418 18:08:32< Crab_> boucman: naming it 'stable ai', sorts of.
20090418 18:09:10< mordante> thanks loonycyborg looks like the cursor thinks it's on the second line which explains the wrapping like behaviour of the cursor
20090418 18:09:19< niadh> I know there are only two days left in which to try and 'sell' myself as a student so what can I do to possibly catch u?
20090418 18:09:19< mordante> silene, thanks
20090418 18:09:21< niadh> up*
20090418 18:11:26< loonycyborg> mordante: np
20090418 18:12:35< mordante> I guess it's really a pango bug
20090418 18:17:47< CIA-30> crab * r35016 /trunk/src/ai/ai.cpp: Document the purpose of an old hack.
20090418 18:23:37 * Polarina dances around in joy!
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20090418 18:48:32< corn> mordante: around now
20090418 18:49:54< CIA-30> crab * r35017 /trunk/src/ai/ (8 files): Annotated todos in /src/ai, per IRC discussion with alink
20090418 18:50:00< CIA-30> crab * r35018 /trunk/src/ai/ai_move.cpp: re-enabled some warnings about deprecated ai parameter
20090418 18:56:26< CIA-30> loonycyborg * r35019 /branches/1.6/scons/install.py: 
20090418 18:56:26< CIA-30> scons wasn't installing locales and translations if those dirs didn't exist at SConscript parse time. Fixed.
20090418 18:56:26< CIA-30> (cherry picked from revision 34984(trunk))
20090418 18:56:32< CIA-30> loonycyborg * r35020 /branches/1.6/SConstruct: Fixed dummy locale generation in 1.6 branch.
20090418 18:58:16< Polarina> loonycyborg: Thank you.
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20090418 19:13:16< mordante> corn, still around?
20090418 19:14:56< mordante> Ivanovic, what time does the devdocs cron job run
20090418 19:15:30< corn> yeah
20090418 19:16:15< mordante> I had a look at https://gna.org/patch/?1165
20090418 19:16:36< corn> no good?
20090418 19:16:41< mordante> and I also think that having a dual purpose sorter is not a good idea
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20090418 19:17:04< corn> so it would be better to break it into two seperate sorters?
20090418 19:17:14< mordante> I think what might be more useful is to have the option to group units per level
20090418 19:17:25< mordante> and then sort in those groups
20090418 19:18:06< mordante> (not that I ever used sorting in the recall dialog ;-) )
20090418 19:18:07< corn> well that's what it's doing now
20090418 19:18:14< corn> but the two sorts are coupled together
20090418 19:18:47< mordante> with grouping you can group on level and then use the sorting on all fields next to it
20090418 19:19:24< mordante> so you can group by highest level first
20090418 19:19:30< mordante> then sort by lowest xp
20090418 19:19:46< corn> how would that work in the ui?
20090418 19:19:56< corn> the user clicks on one column 1st and then another?
20090418 19:20:41< mordante> maybe have a group icon in the header to enable disable grouping
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20090418 19:21:03< mordante> and placing that icon on the left side so you can't misclick sort and group
20090418 19:21:20< mordante> (I'm not sure how easy it's to do that with the current gui)
20090418 19:22:05< corn> when you mean header
20090418 19:22:08< corn> you mean column header?
20090418 19:23:26< mordante> ys
20090418 19:23:27< mordante> yes*
20090418 19:23:40< corn> well currently the title in the header is left-aligned so that wouldn't look correct
20090418 19:23:59< corn> but this seems overly complicated for a somewhat trivial addition
20090418 19:24:41< mordante> of course the icon should always be visible and placed in front of the text
20090418 19:24:57< mordante> and text alignment is language dependent ;-)
20090418 19:25:40< mordante> true, it's quite a bit of work for a small thing and not sure whether it's worth the effort
20090418 19:25:41< corn> sounds like a pain
20090418 19:25:57< corn> is the previous patch for exp acceptable?
20090418 19:26:03< corn> the exp-only sort
20090418 19:26:15< mordante> which number?
20090418 19:26:22< corn> 1 sec
20090418 19:26:43< corn> https://gna.org/patch/?1161
20090418 19:26:47< corn> it was already commited
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20090418 19:28:18< mordante> ah that one
20090418 19:28:50< mordante> I'm not too fond of the coding style looks quite c-ish to me, not sure what your background is
20090418 19:29:00< corn> heh
20090418 19:29:04< corn> yeah, that's exactly the case
20090418 19:29:12< mordante> but dfranke mentioned that the code around it is also c-ish
20090418 19:29:15< corn> wesnoth is my first c++ stuff
20090418 19:29:38< corn> I am pretty good with C
20090418 19:29:49< mordante> ah well you at least don't have a java background ;-)
20090418 19:30:02< corn> but anyway, the reasonw hy I made a new patch is because someone on irc said that xp-sort wasn't intuitive
20090418 19:30:22< corn> someone who wants to sort by xp won't expect that it will be sorted by level order first
20090418 19:31:47< corn> if I change the order of the returns, would that be ok?
20090418 19:31:50< corn> 4 line patch
20090418 19:31:55< corn> +		if(level1 > level2)
20090418 19:31:55< corn> +			return true;
20090418 19:31:55< corn> +		if(level1 < level2)
20090418 19:31:55< corn> +			return false;
20090418 19:31:55< corn> +		return (xp1_y - xp1_x) < (xp2_y - xp2_x);
20090418 19:32:03< corn> those lines
20090418 19:32:16< Ivanovic> mordante: some time on the middle of the night
20090418 19:33:17< mordante> Ivanovic, ok
20090418 19:34:28< mordante> that's a patch against?
20090418 19:35:24< corn> nothing, I just copy pasted from 1161 because those are the lines I'd change
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20090418 19:36:50< corn> anyway, I'll submit a new (much smaller patch) to address the problem I just said above.
20090418 19:37:20< corn> did you look at https://gna.org/bugs/?13388 ?
20090418 19:37:50< corn> I will handle it later today because I encountered it when changing some things for the pause/play button on observer mode
20090418 19:38:10< corn> I've made the 'End Turn' button change to 'Observing' when in in observer mode 
20090418 19:38:18< corn> and 'Paused' when you're paused in observer mode
20090418 19:38:21< corn> it's a clickable button
20090418 19:39:00< corn> the same menu problem occurs, End Turn should change to Pause in the right click and action menu
20090418 19:45:17< mordante> I haven't looked at that bug yet, have been busy with some other things in my way too long todo list
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20090418 19:50:36< mordante> afk
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20090418 20:17:47< Polarina> 524 more translated strings done today. :D
20090418 20:18:03< Crab_> Polarina: how many left ) ?
20090418 20:18:27< Polarina> Crab_: http://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/index.lang.php?lang=is&version=branch (not counting these 524 strings done today).
20090418 20:20:02< Crab_> Polarina: I see ) 524 in an one day is a lot of work ))
20090418 20:20:06< Crab_> thanks
20090418 20:20:49< Polarina> Crab_: About 500 of these strings done today are done by the new translator I found (actually, he found me). :)
20090418 20:21:21< Crab_> hehe :)))
20090418 20:22:12< Polarina> I'd be even more surprised (I'm already surprised) if he manages to finish a big part of wesnoth-units by the end of the day.
20090418 20:37:16-!- stikonas [n=quassel@ctv-213-164-120-170.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090418 20:38:18< Polarina> The string "Research" in wesnoth-anl, is it a verb or a noun?
20090418 20:38:29< CIA-30> silene * r35021 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Added a Lua accessor for team objectives.
20090418 20:38:33< CIA-30> silene * r35022 /trunk/src/playcampaign.cpp: 
20090418 20:38:33< CIA-30> Added a mechanism for loading Lua code from toplevel WML.
20090418 20:38:33< CIA-30> (Warning: not sure if the hack on 'scenario' is completely safe.)
20090418 20:38:38< CIA-30> silene * r35023 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Fixed incorrect assumption on concat operator.
20090418 20:38:43< CIA-30> silene * r35024 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Fixed overwriting of WML children.
20090418 20:38:44< stikonas> Polarina: As far as I remember, it is a verb
20090418 20:38:50< CIA-30> silene * r35025 /trunk/data/ (core/_main.cfg lua/wml-tags.lua): Replaced C++ implementation of the [objectives] tag by a Lua function.
20090418 20:38:55< Polarina> stikonas: Thank you.
20090418 20:46:50< corn> afk
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20090418 20:49:10< Chusslove> Polarina: I think "noun or verb" is, in general, a poor question.
20090418 20:49:35< Chusslove> E.g. for this particular string, if you look into .cfg source, you will see that it is a *caption*.
20090418 20:50:13< Polarina> It's still either a noun or a verb.
20090418 20:50:16< Chusslove> In my language, to use a verb as caption would be extremely poor style. We'd instead always use a verb-noun (i.e. "Researching").
20090418 20:50:53< Chusslove> So to know whether the English author thinks its a noun or verb is useless to me. Much more useful is the UI context.
20090418 20:51:11< Chusslove> So I would ask: "Is this a button, menu item, window title..." instead of "is it a verb or noun".
20090418 20:51:19< stikonas> it is window title
20090418 20:51:44< stikonas> I've just looked at it the game and made screenshot
20090418 20:51:45< Chusslove> Wait...
20090418 20:52:02< Chusslove> I know it's title of something, looked into the .cfg file :)
20090418 20:52:30< stikonas> I'll upload it to imagebin
20090418 20:52:35< Chusslove> But the point is that "what UI context" is a far more decisive question than "verb or noun".
20090418 20:53:51< Chusslove> In particular because English makes little differnce between the two; what is a "verb" for one author, may be a "noun" for another. But both will invariably say "it's a title" or whatever other UI element.
20090418 20:54:33< stikonas> http://imagebin.org/46027
20090418 20:54:50< Polarina> Chusslove: In some languages, having a noun or a verb in a window title make both sense.
20090418 20:54:51< stikonas> Polarina, Chusslove: ^^
20090418 20:55:14< Chusslove> stikonas: Thanks. Indeed, translating that as verb in my language, would be a style disaster :)
20090418 20:55:56< Chusslove> So, "Research" as a title -> "Istrazivanje"; "Research" on a button -> "Istrazi".
20090418 20:56:00< Polarina> Chusslove: Not everyone are translating into your language.
20090418 20:56:34< Chusslove> But everyone will know what to do if they are told "it's a title", whereas some will not know what to do if told "it is a verb" (and may do outright wrong).
20090418 20:57:01< Polarina> Chusslove: Depends on the target language.
20090418 20:57:09< Chusslove> So an answer to "verb or noun" helps some, while answer to "what UI context" helps everyone.
20090418 20:57:33< Polarina> Chusslove: Not everyone.
20090418 20:57:55< Chusslove> Polarina: If you were told this particular "Research" is a title, you wouldn't know how to translate it? C'mon.
20090418 20:58:14< Polarina> :)
20090418 20:58:14< Chusslove> That's logically impossible.
20090418 21:03:43< stikonas> I've just translated it as a noun
20090418 21:04:30< Chusslove> Kind of case in point :)
20090418 21:05:16< Polarina> I wonder how I should translate "AAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiggggggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!" in wesnoth-did.
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20090418 21:05:40< Chusslove> (What I'd be curious too is how many native English speakers would call it a noun, and how many a verb. If this turns out like >25% of both, oh boy...)
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20090418 21:08:15 * Ivanovic calls it noun in this context...
20090418 21:10:09< Chusslove> That's kind of point: different languages may have different grammar forms for a given context. So it is the (user interface, dialogue, etc.) context which is important, not the source language's grammar form used.
20090418 21:11:39< Polarina> Ivanovic: When is your 'n8' time? And should I simply include the name of a new translator in the next e-mail?
20090418 21:12:34< Ivanovic> just include the "complete" entry for the user in the mail (as in the format it should appear in at the end)
20090418 21:12:54< Polarina> Ivanovic: Define ""complete" entry".
20090418 21:13:11< Ivanovic> cf eg this for "several" examples how it can look: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Credits#German_Translation
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20090418 21:13:32< Ivanovic> Polarina: the whole string that is to be displayed in the credits
20090418 21:13:41< Polarina> Ivanovic: Ok.
20090418 21:13:45< Ivanovic> the most common combinations:
20090418 21:14:00-!- silene [n=plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090418 21:14:01< Ivanovic> Real Name (Nickname); Real Name; Nickname
20090418 21:14:13< Ivanovic> each of those three is common
20090418 21:14:20< Polarina> Ivanovic: Ok. Thank you.
20090418 21:14:31< Polarina> And when is your n8 time?
20090418 21:16:06-!- silene [n=plouf@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-71-86.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090418 21:17:37< Ivanovic> when i feel like heading off to bed
20090418 21:17:38< Ivanovic> ;)
20090418 21:18:23-!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090418 21:18:41< Polarina> Ivanovic: Ok. ;)
20090418 21:18:46< Ivanovic> i don't have to be up to receive a mail
20090418 21:18:47< Ivanovic> ;)
20090418 21:19:10< Polarina> Of course not, I just don't like having to wait over 10 hours.
20090418 21:19:31< Ivanovic> what about sending stuff in before *you* head off to bed?
20090418 21:19:42< Ivanovic> then it is most likely online when you get up again
20090418 21:19:51< Polarina> Hmm...
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20090418 21:39:58< fendrin> hello
20090418 21:40:38< Polarina> Hi.
20090418 21:42:04< Polarina> Ivanovic: Why is it "Icelandic translation" and not "Icelandic Translation"?
20090418 21:43:35< silene> fendrin: hi, you may be interested in the data/lua/wml-tags.lua file
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20090418 21:45:31< fendrin> silene: uh
20090418 21:45:43< fendrin> what is it purpose?
20090418 21:46:46< silene> fendrin: experimenting purpose; the [objectives] tag is no longer coded in C++, Lua is sufficient
20090418 21:47:29< fendrin> silene: do you mind if i contribute to that file?
20090418 21:48:03< fendrin> The tag that can be used to define tags is still in my mind.
20090418 21:48:45< mordante> silene, is the C++ code removed?
20090418 21:49:32< silene> fendrin: i don't mind
20090418 21:50:13< silene> mordante: not yet; that way, the engine will gracefully fallback on the c++ if there is no lua support
20090418 21:50:34< mordante> ok, that's why I asked
20090418 21:50:36< fendrin> silene: The file breaks whole wesnoth if I commit crab?
20090418 21:51:00< silene> fendrin: yes
20090418 21:51:03< mordante> I'm not against making lua mandatory but some people mind
20090418 21:52:53< fendrin> silene: at what time is that file included?
20090418 21:54:13< silene> fendrin: in a preload event; and now that i think about it, probably as the last preload event
20090418 21:54:55< silene> it would probably more useful if it was loaded as the first one
20090418 21:54:58< fendrin> silene: so only scenario with that preload event included use the new objective tag?
20090418 21:55:48< silene> fendrin: no, all the scenarios get this preload event, the engine gets it from data/core/_main.cfg
20090418 21:57:09-!- stikonas_ is now known as stikonas
20090418 21:57:33< fendrin> silene: That means, if I store lua made wml tags in a wml file (with the tag that defines tags) they can be preoladed to every wesnoth game?
20090418 22:01:23< Polarina> What does the string "En garde!" in wesnoth-httt mean?
20090418 22:01:38< silene> fendrin: no, only lua code is loaded; loading arbitrary tags would require some additional mechanisms (to know which tags are supposed to be loaded; for instance, you don't want [units] tags to flood scenarios)
20090418 22:02:12< fendrin> Polarina: That is french. It means draw your weapon, I want a duel with you.
20090418 22:02:15< loonycyborg> Polarina: This prompts an enemy to take defensive stance for a duel :P
20090418 22:02:34< Polarina> fendrin: This is an english string, not french translation...
20090418 22:03:09< loonycyborg> It's borrowed.
20090418 22:03:17< Polarina> :(
20090418 22:03:19< fendrin> Polarina: The english men speak some french, they have been invated by them for hundrets of yours. 
20090418 22:03:42< fendrin> Half the english words have french origion. 
20090418 22:03:54< fendrin> s/origion/origin
20090418 22:03:58< fendrin> s/invated/invaded
20090418 22:05:12< loonycyborg> Polarina: I'm sure that esr will explain its origin to you unless he's AFK :P
20090418 22:05:22< fendrin> Half is ment literaly because the upper class talked french and the lower class the celtic language. They melted to english with two words for nearly every thing.
20090418 22:06:03< Rrenys> uh, no?
20090418 22:06:41< esr> Polarina: It translates to English as "On guard!" or "Be on your guard!"  It is a formal challenge to duel.
20090418 22:06:46< Rrenys> I mean, I dont know that much on the topic, but i would assume the obsession with french language would only appear after the celtic part had been subdued by germanic?
20090418 22:07:00< esr> Rrenys is correct.
20090418 22:07:50< fendrin> s/celtic/germanic
20090418 22:08:42< esr> Medieval English combined an Old French overlay wityh an Anglo-Saxon foundation.  Some Celtic words had diffused into Anglo-Saxon before the Norman Conquest, and others did afterwards, but the grammar remained Germanic.
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20090418 22:12:45< Polarina> esr: Thank you.
20090418 22:14:15 * loonycyborg associates 'En garde!' mostly with 'Three Musketeers' :P
20090418 22:14:26< esr> Well, yes.
20090418 22:23:47< esr> For those of you who read English but not French, I recommend  Richard Pevear's 2006 translation.  Most previious ones have been very badly botched.
20090418 22:23:55< dfranke> esr: I don't think "en garde" really constitutes a *formal* challenge.  That would be done days in advance of the fight, at least under the code duello.  And the command could be given in the context of training as well.
20090418 22:24:28< esr> dfranke: OK, it's not a cartel of defiance.
20090418 22:25:03< esr> Still, if someone says "En Garde!" to you, you know you are in a duel rather than a melee.
20090418 22:25:26 * loonycyborg have read all trilogy in Russian :P
20090418 22:25:45< dfranke> are the Musketeers sequels worthwhile?  I've only read the first book.
20090418 22:26:11< esr> My wifre read one of them once.  According to her, not very.
20090418 22:26:36< loonycyborg> I rather liked 'Twenty Years After', but 'The Vicomte de Bragelonne' was rather depressing.
20090418 22:26:57< esr> My perspective on those books really changed after I leaarned to swordfight.
20090418 22:27:42 * fendrin is listening to a audiobook called "Der Krieg der Zwerge" from Markus Heitz which translates to "The dwarves' war". It's good.
20090418 22:37:45< CIA-30> esr * r35026 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/ (2 files in 2 dirs): First hack at new ending for scenario 20.
20090418 22:38:20< dfranke> one characteristic about sword duels that I think The Three Musketeers would have a been a better novel if it had portrayed better, is that they can be really damned random in their outcome.
20090418 22:39:03< dfranke> fencing technique relies heavily on your opponent not being stupid.  If he is, then it'll sometimes work out for him.
20090418 22:39:12< esr> fendrin: I came up with another interesting plot wrinkle for 20 which I'm testing.  If you have undead veterans, Iliah-Malal must be killed by an undead.  There is appropriate dialog.
20090418 22:39:41< dfranke> That's why we don't do 1-point bouts in modern fencing.
20090418 22:40:28< dfranke> Even as a complete noob I was still able to score about 1 point in 10 against a coach at my club who 10 years ago was on the French national team.
20090418 22:40:38< Morian> mordante, Ivanovic : Hi, have you read the news on my application (on the stats server idea), I have just got a working prototype (after a really busy week, sorry for that :-()
20090418 22:40:41< esr> dfranke: That's more true of late French style than most others, it's very offense-oriented.  The style I know, southern Italian from about 1500, has a more ffectivce guard and defensive technique.
20090418 22:42:31< mordante> Morian, can you paste a link? ?Haven't seen your update
20090418 22:42:55< Morian> of course, here it is : http://socghop.appspot.com/student_proposal/show/google/gsoc2009/morian/t123872416022
20090418 22:45:15< dfranke> esr: how does it tend to fare in bouts with modern sport fencers?
20090418 22:45:51< mordante> Morian, thanks, and the game is called Battle _for_ Wesnoth ;-)
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20090418 22:47:09< esr> dfranke: Depends.  Sport fencers tend to win on a straight piste but have difficukties fencing in the round.
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20090418 22:47:50< Morian> ><, sorry, (fixed on the prototype)
20090418 22:51:12< fendrin> esr: Is it coded?
20090418 22:52:29< esr> fendrin: Yes, I just committed it.
20090418 22:53:33< fendrin> We have to make another change to 19. Heafy Infantrie can't pass mountains. see http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=352686#p352686
20090418 22:53:48< fendrin> s/Heafy/Heavy
20090418 22:54:40 * Polarina wonders if Ivanovic is still there.
20090418 22:54:49< esr> fendrin: I know that, but that's why we have dawarves in that scenario.  What nead for HI?
20090418 22:55:27< fendrin> The play can recall and recruit it. If he makes that mistake all this units are lost.
20090418 22:55:31< dfranke> esr: not surprising... makes me wish there were something more along those lines extant as an Olympic sport.  Everyone realizes that a lot of 20th century technique innovations are adaptations to artifacts of the sport, e.g. taking advantage of flexible blades by flicking, but I still like to think that a 21st century maitre d'armes has a lot more to teach a 16th century one than vice versa.  It would speak very poorly of the art
20090418 22:55:31< dfranke> otherwise.
20090418 22:55:40< fendrin> s/play/player
20090418 22:56:27< esr> fendrin: I call that a learning experience.
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20090418 22:58:36< esr> dfranke: The other thing about cut-and-thrust in the round, as opposed to the straight thrust-only linear style of sport fencing, is that ait transfers much better to fighting with short blades and improvised weapons.  So it's, if not useful in itself, at least closer to being useful.
20090418 22:58:46< fendrin> esr: Maybe, but that can't be foreseen. Our scenario objectives does mention the keep as the return point. But it's the mine and that mine is in the mountains, the keep is not sourrounded be them.
20090418 22:59:10< Polarina> Ivanovic: You got mail! :D
20090418 22:59:17< mordante> Morian, I'm off now if Ivanovic doesn't reply can you return tomorrow?
20090418 22:59:29< esr> You want to make anon-mountain path from tunnel to keep?
20090418 22:59:42< esr> s/anon/a non/
20090418 23:00:02< Morian> mordante: ok, thanks
20090418 23:00:18< mordante> night
20090418 23:00:24< fendrin> esr: or change the objectives.
20090418 23:00:25< Morian> good night :)
20090418 23:00:33-!- mordante [n=mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090418 23:00:43< fendrin> That would not require rebalancing.
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20090418 23:01:13< esr> fendrin: Oh, that would requirte rebalancing the whole thing. Simpler to hacl the map a little.
20090418 23:01:48< dfranke> esr: Well, for cut-and-thrust there's sabre fencing, but the style is a bit ridiculous.
20090418 23:01:55< dfranke> esr: I fence foil and épée.
20090418 23:01:59< Ivanovic> Morian: decisions on the students had to be done on wednesday already
20090418 23:02:06< Ivanovic> with other words: you were too late
20090418 23:03:25< fendrin> esr: No I mean just change the objective text to point out that Delfador doesn't need to return to the keep but to the tunnel. Or would that spoil a surprise?
20090418 23:03:45< Morian> oh :/, I really had no time this week to do  this :(
20090418 23:05:01< fendrin> esr: The text that says that delfador has to return to the keep is just a lie.
20090418 23:05:14< esr> Then let's fix that.
20090418 23:05:41-!- Sirp [n=me@wesnoth/developer/dave] has quit ["leaving"]
20090418 23:05:51< fendrin> esr: I thought about letting the player the chance to decide closing the mine with delfador before all units returned, that would abandom them to death.
20090418 23:07:15< Morian> Ivanovic: so there is nothing to do (except trying again next year) ?
20090418 23:07:19< fendrin> That way the player can recruit heavy infantry willingly to secure a save return.
20090418 23:08:31< esr> fendrin: I think they're too slow on rough terrain to be viable, so thesre's not a lot of point to it.
20090418 23:09:59< Soliton> Morian: becoming a developer is the best way to prepare for next year. ;-)
20090418 23:10:10< dfranke> esr: Unlike foil and épée fencing, which are derived from a very long dueling tradition, sabre fencing was never really a practical art.  It's nonsensically taking a weapon designed for mounted combat and using it on foot.  It got used on occasion for duels between soldiers, but obviously those were heavily frowned upon so there couldn't have been much opportunity to develop the technique.  Shortly after it even got started, the sabre
20090418 23:10:10< dfranke> was obsolete.
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20090418 23:25:06< Polarina> Ivanovic: Did you receive my mail?
20090418 23:30:09 * Polarina wonders where Ivanovic is.
20090418 23:30:36-!- stikonas [n=quassel@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090418 23:33:07< Rrenys> There are 2 leftover empty folders, (at least in 1.6.0) data\core\images\transparent & data\core\images\titlescreen.
20090418 23:40:12< Polarina> Ivanovic: Ping.
20090418 23:43:48< CIA-30> esr * r35027 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/ (21 files in 3 dirs): Consolidate two adjacent talk scenarios.
20090418 23:48:34 * Polarina cries.
20090418 23:50:38< loonycyborg> I didn't see him say n8 so probably he isn't sleeping yet :P
20090418 23:54:05< CIA-30> silene * r35028 /trunk/data/lua/wml-tags.lua: Converted [show_objectives], [gold], [store_gold], [clear_variable] to Lua.
20090418 23:56:20< Polarina> loonycyborg: That's why I'm pinging him.
20090418 23:57:01< crimson_penguin> ...Let me get this straight, he's NOT asleep, but he's... not at his computer either?
20090418 23:57:07< crimson_penguin> That just doesn't make any sense
20090418 23:57:33< crimson_penguin> OH! Maybe he's at a different computer!
20090418 23:58:59< Polarina> crimson_penguin: If you see him, tell him to check his e-mail.
20090418 23:59:37< crimson_penguin> He probably will as soon as he's back at his computer
20090418 23:59:50< Blueblaze> Polarina: Whenever he comes back, he'll check what he's missed
--- Log closed Sun Apr 19 00:00:32 2009