--- Log opened Tue Apr 21 00:00:50 2009
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20090421 00:17:27< Turuk_> Noy: about your question earlier to me, I have no idea what you are talking about
20090421 00:17:39< noy> I don't remember what my question was back then :p
20090421 00:17:50< Turuk_> Something about forcing Frezycus to change his post?
20090421 00:17:51< noy> its been 24 hours...
20090421 00:17:58< noy> ah then it wasn't you
20090421 00:18:00< Turuk_> You're a hard man to track down ;)
20090421 00:18:11< Turuk_> Did someone make him change it, and if so, why? what was wrong with it?
20090421 00:18:19< noy> Well he made a really creepy gay post on the forum
20090421 00:18:29< noy> like someone else being his new "boyfriend" 
20090421 00:18:39< noy> based on photos in the photo thread
20090421 00:18:54< Turuk_> Ah yeah, I saw that, it's still there though
20090421 00:19:07< Turuk_> He edited the one below that to talk about R0ger's nice legs
20090421 00:19:17< noy> no it was worse before
20090421 00:19:39< Turuk_> Oh, what did it say?  I feel like I read it and don't remember
20090421 00:23:22< Turuk_> Well, how did you know someone forced him to change it, did he contact you?
20090421 00:25:29< noy> Turuk_: it was something like "I guess I have a new boyfriend"
20090421 00:25:38< noy> something to that end
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20090421 00:25:47< Turuk_> Ah, I do remember that, that was creepy.
20090421 00:25:55< Turuk_> Though I remember thinking I was ambiguous about his sex
20090421 00:27:10< noy> Turuk_: I think a warning is in order
20090421 00:28:59< Turuk_> While Wesnoth fully respects that we have people who come from a variety of lifestyles, we respectfully ask that you keep comments such as the above to yourself.  They may make other users uncomfortable and drive them away from the forums.
20090421 00:31:17< Turuk_> Sound good or no?
20090421 00:48:19< noy> Turuk_: sounds good
20090421 00:51:36< Turuk_> Sent.
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20090421 18:07:18< noy> Turuk: he changed it back 
20090421 18:07:29< Turuk> I'm not surprised, he's sending me nasty PMs
20090421 18:07:34< noy> lets bring it up in the mod forum
20090421 18:08:07< noy> I'll raise it if you want
20090421 18:08:12< noy> send me some of them
20090421 18:09:40< Turuk> let me check the latest one
20090421 18:09:47< Turuk> so far i just have the one of him calling me a HOMOPHOBE
20090421 18:09:49< Turuk> repeatedly
20090421 18:09:58< Turuk> oh
20090421 18:10:02< Turuk> and he's now doing it on the MP server
20090421 18:10:04< Turuk> just so you know
20090421 18:11:12< Turuk> sent the PMs
20090421 18:11:21< Turuk> his argument is that he can hit on whoever he wants since he's not asking them for sex
20090421 18:11:34< noy> Turuk: oh goodie
20090421 18:11:41< noy> I'm going to enjoy this
20090421 18:12:01< Turuk> I've explained to him bahhh
20090421 18:12:27< Turuk> You will see
20090421 18:12:49< Turuk> He said he does not feel comfortable when people mention their girlfriends, but that's allowed
20090421 18:13:02< Turuk> Criticism is allowed, and that can make people uncomfortable
20090421 18:13:39< Turuk> Did someone force him to edit the post?  Because he's acting as if someone already made him do it before I said anything
20090421 18:15:23< zookeeper> who are you even talking about?
20090421 18:17:57< Turuk> Frezycus
20090421 18:19:19< noy> Turuk: edit his comments. If he as much as looks in your direction you have authority to ban him from everything
20090421 18:19:32< Turuk> Gotcha.
20090421 18:19:36< Turuk> Having a conversation with him now?
20090421 18:20:38< noy> he claims I can't prove he said you're a homophobe
20090421 18:20:59< Turuk> Ha
20090421 18:21:09< noy> give me a quote please
20090421 18:21:52< Turuk> best I can do is from the PM "that thing you quoted above should generarally NOT offend anybody, except HOMOPHOBES." in which he is making the implication
20090421 18:23:29< Turuk> Also, I don't know what to edit out of his comments
20090421 18:23:39< Turuk> How does one change Wesnoth boys are cute into something else? 
20090421 18:23:59< Turuk> or this: "Tomsik and Suvorov are cute.... and that ginger boy i see... and Doc Peterson"
20090421 18:26:47< Turuk> WHAT THE FUCK
20090421 18:26:49< Turuk> oh hell he did
20090421 18:29:00< zookeeper> right
20090421 18:30:43< zookeeper> that's about the photo thread? what was the original problem with him there, besides random pointless comments which threads like that are full of anyway?
20090421 18:31:18< zookeeper> since he edited his posts maybe i'm missing something
20090421 18:32:36< Turuk> Oh, his comments about other guys, saying they had nice legs and this and that
20090421 18:32:55< Turuk> Saying I want that one for my boyfriend
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20090421 18:48:34< thespaceinvader> Turuk: you were lookign for me yesterday, apprently
20090421 18:48:37< thespaceinvader> so wesbot informs me
20090421 18:48:44< Shadow_Master> yes, he was.
20090421 18:48:57-!- Shadow_Master is now known as Obvious_Master
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20090421 18:49:16< Obvious_Master> he was looking for you. No idea exactly what for.
20090421 18:49:18< Obvious_Master> ;)
20090421 18:49:29-!- Obvious_Master is now known as Shadow_Master
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20090421 18:59:06< noy> Ask him again
20090421 18:59:35< Turuk> Ask him again....?
20090421 18:59:49< Shadow_Master> no. He'd die if he knew the truth
20090421 18:59:58< Turuk> Death? hmm
20090421 19:00:39< Shadow_Master> Turuk: so that guy in the photo thread remoed the boy briend comment?
20090421 19:00:50< Shadow_Master> f
20090421 19:00:54< Turuk> sorta, now he made list of all the guys he thinks are cute
20090421 19:01:06< Shadow_Master> nice
20090421 19:01:28< thespaceinvader> Turuk: wesbot said you were looking for me yesterday
20090421 19:01:39< Shadow_Master> I knew he was crazy since before meeting him in the forums ;)
20090421 19:01:42< zookeeper> well, as long as he includes noy i'm fine with it
20090421 19:01:51< Turuk> thespaceinvader: just the normal where's TSI, nothing important ;)
20090421 19:01:56< noy> Turuk: I forgot he did that
20090421 19:02:01< thespaceinvader> ah k
20090421 19:02:22< Turuk> noy: yeah, he edited it out to cover more guys.  Shadow_Master: how'd you know that?
20090421 19:02:26< noy> I think that's a bannable offense
20090421 19:02:31< Shadow_Master> Turuk: his addons?
20090421 19:02:44< Turuk> ah true
20090421 19:03:08< noy> Because now he's flaunting the law laid down
20090421 19:03:08 * Shadow_Master is sad because he isn't in that list, though ;(
20090421 19:03:19< Turuk> He did it this morning though noy, when he first read my PM, started yelling HOMOPHOBE, and before I could respond
20090421 19:04:03< zookeeper> is homophobe an insult?
20090421 19:04:22< noy> We should not base our judgment on a fear of how people percieve us: that's what he wants. 
20090421 19:04:22< Turuk> I just sent him a PM about his "Nope." response and told him that he has been asked politely not to continue, and since he has stated that he will continue to do as he pleases he will suffer the consequences
20090421 19:04:28< Shadow_Master> at least it seems it's intended to be an insult
20090421 19:04:58< Turuk> zookeeper: it can be, as it implies the person is narrow-minded and ignorant
20090421 19:05:26< Turuk> Also, I don't see what is homophobic about asking him to not make flirtatious or inappropriate comments about other people he does not even know in a public setting.
20090421 19:05:45< noy> We should judge it based on a standard... And if a guy made a list of all the girls on wesnoth they thought were hot, they would get a warning
20090421 19:06:35< Turuk> Wait, you mean I can't use a game forum to pick up chicks? Awww
20090421 19:07:03< Shadow_Master> not this one at least ;)
20090421 19:08:06< noy> Frez likes to play games with authority; that's why I have a zero tolerance policy with him on the server
20090421 19:09:10< noy> He's now trying to do that with the forum and you turuk
20090421 19:09:38< Shadow_Master> reminds me I once exchanged one PM with him regarding his add-ons
20090421 19:09:50< noy> And?
20090421 19:10:46< Shadow_Master> I didn't know that defying authorities was his actual past-time 
20090421 19:11:07< noy> So?
20090421 19:11:18< Shadow_Master> eh, yeah :p
20090421 19:11:44< Shadow_Master> I forgot what I had to say. -goes to the phone-
20090421 19:14:07< Shadow_Master> the thing is, I warned him about the copyright policy and said that we can remove them if we want, but we must notify him so he can upload a more "legal" version
20090421 19:15:06< Shadow_Master> if I was on his place I'd have done the latter immediately instead of 'teasing the developer'
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20090421 19:18:03< zookeeper> uh, does he have any add-ons that could be made more "legal" without making them completely pointless?
20090421 19:18:32 * Turuk wonders what he missed
20090421 19:19:31< noy> Checkthe log
20090421 19:20:35< noy> You know... I think a message needs to be sent.
20090421 19:21:01< Turuk> where can i find the log for this channel?
20090421 19:21:11< Shadow_Master> Turuk: last link in topic
20090421 19:21:21< Shadow_Master> http://wesnoth.org/irclogs/2009/04/%23wesnoth-mp.2009-04-21.log
20090421 19:22:03< Turuk> Gotcha
20090421 19:22:10< Turuk> So he likes to think he's above everyone else
20090421 19:22:17< Turuk> I'm not quite surprised
20090421 19:23:19< zookeeper> noy, you sound like a politician ;)
20090421 19:23:26< Shadow_Master> Turuk: PM
20090421 19:23:34< noy> Okay, I'll write an pm today for the forum.
20090421 19:23:42< noy> Mod forum
20090421 19:24:00< zookeeper> if he does something that breaks the rules, then kick, ban, lock, delete, warn, etc...
20090421 19:24:02< noy> zookeeper: Noy for prez!
20090421 19:24:04< Shadow_Master> Turuk: I never replied back/notified since some people were beating the crap out of me in RL
20090421 19:24:12< Shadow_Master> in the metaphorical sense of course
20090421 19:24:40< Turuk> Eh,Shadow_Master: yeah, it's nothing major but it shows his attitude of so I'm breaking the rules, who cares when he came back with "You remove them if you want."
20090421 19:25:04< Turuk> "But note me so I can upload a more 'legal' version."  Meh
20090421 19:25:50 * Shadow_Master goes out for class
20090421 19:27:08< Turuk> Noy: 20090421 11:44:36< lobby>           <Frezycus> any homophobes around?
20090421 19:27:35< noy> Turuk:  ban him
20090421 19:27:46< Turuk> It was from earlier, I guess when you were talking to him?
20090421 19:27:54< noy> Nope
20090421 19:28:30< Turuk> ah right, accounting for time difference, that was before I had responded to his PM
20090421 19:28:45< noy> Well maybe
20090421 19:28:48< noy> I don't think so though
20090421 19:29:28< Turuk> actually, reading the chat from yesterday morning is disgusting
20090421 19:29:39< Turuk> I guess no mods were in the lobby around well 1am my time
20090421 19:29:44< Turuk> 130
20090421 19:29:58< noy> Hm
20090421 19:30:55< Turuk> read from 7am on
20090421 19:31:08< Turuk> it's about porn, sex, drugs, and gays
20090421 19:31:27< noy> Was he involved?
20090421 19:32:08< Turuk> Can we retroactively ban users? ;) Him? Let's see
20090421 19:33:11< Turuk> said hi cute boys, stayed out of the conversation mostly, made a comments on how necrophiliacs are not cute (a lovely conversation by the way)
20090421 19:33:40< noy> Hm
20090421 19:34:15< Turuk> said scott_r is cute, did the /e kissed scott_jr
20090421 19:34:15< Turuk> laughed and then played a game
20090421 19:34:15< Turuk> Meh
20090421 19:34:57< zookeeper> where do you get to read lobby logs?
20090421 19:35:19< Turuk> In referencing that entire conversation though, Fireman could probably do with some time away from teh server
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20090421 19:35:39< zookeeper> btw, looks like there's some action there right now :p
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20090421 19:36:55< Turuk> In referencing that entire conversation though, Fireman could probably do with some time away from teh server
20090421 19:37:15< Turuk> action going on right now?
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20090421 19:40:03< zookeeper> Turuk, as in <lobby>       <maximeamisse> Where are the gays ?
20090421 19:40:20< Turuk> I wonder if that's him
20090421 19:42:17< noy_> lets check
20090421 19:44:11-!- mordante [n=mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has joined #wesnoth-mp
20090421 19:48:18< noy_> doesn't seem like it
20090421 20:01:22< Soliton> zookeeper: the logs in the topic also contain lobby logs.
20090421 20:52:18< noy_> could someone explain to tonepoet that the auto archiving system still works on non-obs games?
20090421 21:21:54< Soliton> they won't be publicly available though. i'm pretty sure i mentioned that in his presence.
20090421 21:35:54< noy_> yeah well 
20090421 21:36:01< noy_> I don't think he draws that distinction
20090421 21:36:30< noy_> Soliton: can I make a suggestion for the moderation system; if I ban someone I wish some of the time increments are not case sensitive
20090421 21:37:03< noy_> IE Its a pain when I have to go back and ban someone for 3 hours and forget that H is supposed to be small h
20090421 21:37:23< Soliton> what to do about months and minutes?
20090421 21:37:33< noy_> lets not ban people for minutes
20090421 21:37:40< noy_> hour being the shortest
20090421 21:37:47< Soliton> ok.
20090421 21:37:53< noy_> who really bans someone for minutes?
20090421 21:38:12< noy_> and is there any difference between banning someone for 30 minutes and an hour?
20090421 21:38:12< Soliton> we can still leave seconds in for testing, etc.
20090421 21:38:17< noy_> k
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20090421 21:44:08< _jbx_> have you guys already discussed sapient's healing idea?  anyone have thoughts about it, either good or bad? 
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20090421 21:48:18< noy_> _jbx_: well not recently
20090421 21:50:47< noy_> Soliton: can I ban usernames now, like devas?
20090421 21:50:48< _jbx_> well, personally I don't want it to change. At all.  I think his idea is more complicated.  I'm just wondering if anyone here liked it strong enough to vote for some change. 
20090421 21:51:25< noy_> _jbx_: We'll see. I think alot of the actual users don't want a change but dave agrees with him the current solution is inelegant
20090421 21:51:40< Soliton> noy_: no, it's still all ip based.
20090421 21:52:44< noy_> Soliton: Hm, anyway I can one day prevent devas from using his name on there?
20090421 21:52:47< Soliton> well, i doubt anyone finds the current solution elegant. Sapient's isn't the final answer either. might be worth trying though.
20090421 21:53:16< Soliton> noy_: change the password of his account!
20090421 21:53:22< noy_> heh
20090421 21:53:56< noy_> Well there is alot of opposition to changing it too.
20090421 21:54:04< _jbx_> Soliton: trying, as in a non-mainlined side era that is downloadable but not part of the default game, yes? 
20090421 21:54:05< noy_> Basically from the people who actually use it
20090421 21:54:13< Soliton> ah, he is actually not registered
20090421 21:54:18< noy_> No he isn't
20090421 21:54:41< Soliton> then banning his nick isn't really useful.
20090421 21:55:10< _jbx_> Once things like that are "tried" in the actual source code they are often hard to revert.  
20090421 21:55:15< Soliton> _jbx_: if that's possible, sure.
20090421 21:55:41< _jbx_> so in essence, trying is basically saying it's going to be this way if it works
20090421 21:57:01< noy_> Soliton: it kinda is actually. Part of Devas' appeal is that he accrues attention among other individuals by virtue of his name
20090421 22:00:15< noy_> in any case, its not that important
20090421 22:00:17< noy_> just a thought
20090421 22:01:48< _jbx_> perminatley banning nicks could be useful as a way to constantly update a sort of forbidden nick list....we could keep all users from using names like Fuckface, I_Kill_Jews, etc...and the list would just grow and grow as we add to it.
20090421 22:02:21< _jbx_> of course there are more clever ways to be naughty then we could ever think off :)
20090421 22:02:41< Soliton> which is why that is futile.
20090421 22:03:17< Soliton> we already have such a list in any case so if someone really wants to add to it it's possible.
20090421 22:04:42< _jbx_> where is said list?
20090421 22:05:34< Soliton> in the server config file.
20090421 22:08:03< noy_> can we have a command for that?
20090421 22:08:28< noy_> like /query banuser XXXX
20090421 22:08:36< noy_> or banname
20090421 22:09:33< Soliton> since we have registered nicks now that makes sense.
20090421 22:14:02< Soliton> so as it turns out minutes are the default for ban times so you can still use minutes by giving just a number. we could also make it so case only matters for months and minutes. i suppose that's where people will notice that they need to be specific anyway?
20090421 22:14:14< Soliton> and month or minutes bans are uncommon anyway.
20090421 22:15:59< Soliton> _jbx_, noy_, zookeeper, Turuk ^
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20090421 22:19:29< _jbx_> sure, banning in intervals other than Days seems strange to me anyway 
20090421 22:21:46< zookeeper> well, if i ever banned someone i'd need to look up the exact syntax anyway.
20090421 22:22:35< zookeeper> <Soliton> zookeeper: the logs in the topic also contain lobby logs. <--- umm, what logs in what topic?
20090421 22:23:00< noy_> _jbx_: I frequently give hour bans to people who are being annoying
20090421 22:23:21< noy_> like today I told someone that its against the code of conduct to type in all caps
20090421 22:23:57< noy_> then he started arguing with me through PMs, and I got tired of it, so I told him if he continues to argue, I'm going to ban him.
20090421 22:24:01< _jbx_> ha! so for all the famous Noy anger and lashing out, he limits punishment to a few hours  :P
20090421 22:24:03< noy_> he did so I gave an hour ban
20090421 22:24:21< noy_> well he was being annoying and needed time in his corner
20090421 22:24:26< _jbx_> haha
20090421 22:24:47< Soliton> zookeeper: this channel's topic... http://wesnoth.org/irclogs
20090421 22:24:58< zookeeper> i find sapient's healing proposal confusing, what with keeping track of healing across side turns and what not.
20090421 22:25:00< noy_> The stupid thing was, I wasn't even arguing. All I kept saying is; there is the rules, I'm only here to enforce them. 
20090421 22:25:31< noy_> zookeeper: I find them all confusing tbh
20090421 22:26:07< zookeeper> Soliton, oops, missed that due to a line wrap :>
20090421 22:28:49< zookeeper> Soliton, who/what logs those? i presume it's a different client than the one that logs irclog.wesnoth.org
20090421 22:29:42< zookeeper> noy, i think healing at turn end wouldn't be
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20090421 22:30:36< noy_> that introduces a lot of bad gameplay issues
20090421 22:30:52< zookeeper> i mean, your units would heal at your turn end, regardless of who they get it from.
20090421 22:31:10< zookeeper> i don't doubt that. what, exactly?
20090421 22:31:14< _jbx_> your units or your healer?
20090421 22:31:22< Soliton> zookeeper: lobby does.
20090421 22:31:33< zookeeper> Soliton, ok, thanks
20090421 22:32:56< _jbx_> if healing happens at the end of turn, it is only your healer acting, not units.  And as noy pointed out previously, it just changes the order of operations. 
20090421 22:33:38< zookeeper> healers don't get anything from anyone when they heal.
20090421 22:33:48< zookeeper> so i must have meant units, not healers
20090421 22:33:52< _jbx_> no, but they perform the heal
20090421 22:34:38< _jbx_> do you move the hospital to the wounded?  or do you move the wounded to the hospital ?
20090421 22:35:21< noy_> _jbx_: zookeeper isn't the person pushing this idea
20090421 22:35:39< _jbx_> I know, i'm sorry
20090421 22:35:44< _jbx_> it just pisses me off
20090421 22:35:54< _jbx_> because i really don't want to see a change 
20090421 22:36:01< noy_> though he is known for pushing other subversive changes to the game
20090421 22:36:49< noy_> you better be careful zookeeper otherwise you might find yourself with a pitchfork run through you one morning and your house transformed into charcoal
20090421 22:37:17< zookeeper> noy_, well seriously, you shouldn't outright reject the xp-for-healing idea either
20090421 22:37:32< _jbx_> xp for healing only if it takes the place of an attack 
20090421 22:37:52< noy_> zookeeper: uh, okay...
20090421 22:38:28< _jbx_> which means ONE unit can get 4 hp
20090421 22:38:35< zookeeper> noy_, come on :P
20090421 22:38:42< _jbx_> otherwise it just piles up too much free xp
20090421 22:39:09< noy_> heh, I wasn't too sure when you said "seriously"
20090421 22:39:55< zookeeper> Soliton, btw, i find it kinda of...err, not very cool, that the moderating GUI still requires a time string instead of having some widgets for it ;)
20090421 22:40:34< Soliton> zookeeper: complain to Baufo and/or make a feature request.
20090421 22:41:04< zookeeper> unless they're likely to get implemented at some point, maybe it should accept strings like "7 days", "1 hour"
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20090421 22:42:25< Soliton> you can say 7days.
20090421 22:42:28< zookeeper> i've always hated using those unix date...things, since i need them so rarely that i always have to look it up somewhere
20090421 22:42:40< zookeeper> really? well, nevermind then.
20090421 22:43:27< Soliton> the unix date tool is way better with specifying times. you can say "2 days ago" and stuff there.
20090421 22:45:17< Soliton> not using command line interfaces almost always has the problem of forgetting the syntax though. for occasional uses GUIs are often better.
20090421 22:45:43< zookeeper> yep
20090421 22:47:42< Soliton> ok, so i'll make all times case insensitive but minutes and months.
20090421 22:48:33< noy_> to be honest the only ones I use are days and hours
20090421 22:49:35< noy_> I wouldn't ban someone more than an month... after that they deserve a permaban
20090421 22:49:50< zookeeper> Soliton, so 7days works since it only sees "7d", right? does that mean i couldn't use 7days2hours?
20090421 22:50:47< noy_> zookeeper: would you ever use that option?
20090421 22:51:09< noy_> would anyone?
20090421 22:51:20< Soliton> zookeeper: never thought about that but it works because there are special aliases for that. i think they are not combinable though.
20090421 22:51:28< noy_> this is a ban, not a well timed military operation. 
20090421 22:52:05< zookeeper> noy_, knowing how it works helps me memorize it
20090421 22:52:23< zookeeper> if i know it works as i'd expect and want it to work, it's easy to remember
20090421 22:52:40< noy_> zookeeper: I guess. 
20090421 22:53:29< zookeeper> but yeah, i guess i wouldn't need to combine days and hours anyway
20090421 22:53:46< zookeeper> Soliton, how about "7 days"?
20090421 22:54:05< noy_> sorry for opening the pandora's box Soliton 
20090421 22:54:31< Soliton> zookeeper: arguments are sperated by spaces. ugly to support.
20090421 22:54:42< zookeeper> oh right, of course.
20090421 22:55:33< Soliton> it's already ugly that you can leave out the time and it's permanent.. infact i should change that now.
20090421 22:57:18< noy_> Soliton: what are you talking about, that saves me so much trouble most of the time :p
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20090421 23:04:16< zookeeper> Soliton, i think the time stuff is perfectly good this way then. i'll just remember to write the words out so i don't have to think about it. if i ever end up needing it, that is ;)
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20090421 23:20:03< Soliton> hrm, 7days actually doesn't work...
20090421 23:20:37< Soliton> i guess i'll make 7dfoobar work.
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--- Log closed Wed Apr 22 00:00:58 2009