--- Log opened Wed Apr 15 00:00:57 2009
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20090415 00:17:02< Ivanovic> n8
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20090415 01:09:48< Haldir898> hi @all
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20090415 01:19:33< Haldir898> hi
20090415 01:20:04-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth
20090415 01:20:11< Haldir898> hi
20090415 01:21:23< Haldir898> why NOBODY SAY HELLO?!?! 
20090415 01:21:28< Haldir898> FUCKING DAMN ARGH!!!
20090415 01:21:45< Haldir898> very polite player -__-
20090415 01:22:21< Lord_Aether> Switch to decaf, man :-)
20090415 01:22:23< Appleman1234> Haldir898, calm down
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20090415 01:24:54< Haldir898> ...
20090415 01:25:01< Haldir898> such a bad community
20090415 01:25:24< Haldir898> nobody greets sombody
20090415 01:26:27< ancestral> Haha
20090415 01:27:00< Lord_Aether> Umm, would it help if I said it now?
20090415 01:27:18< ancestral> Somebody forgot to plug in their InterCortex connection. Text greetings are so primitive 
20090415 01:27:22< Haldir898> it would be better if you do it never
20090415 01:27:42< Haldir898> it would be better as if you do it never
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20090415 01:28:54-!- Amu is now known as Smar
20090415 01:32:53< Haldir898> ... is this a chat or a graveyard?!??!
20090415 01:33:29< noy> Its not used that much
20090415 01:33:32< noy> so what?
20090415 01:33:36< Lord_Aether> It is often very quiet
20090415 01:34:07< Haldir898> it not used
20090415 01:34:16< Haldir898> no communication
20090415 01:34:31< Haldir898> ... :-/
20090415 01:35:54< ancestral> Hehe
20090415 01:36:02< ancestral> Go ahead and chat, no one is stopping you
20090415 01:36:17< Ken_Oh1> sup ppl
20090415 01:36:33< Haldir898> and with WHO
20090415 01:36:39< Haldir898> should i talk?
20090415 01:36:41< ancestral> actually, with "whom"
20090415 01:36:56< ancestral> I'm talking :)
20090415 01:37:40< Haldir898> you answer..uhh
20090415 01:37:49< Haldir898> it s a beginning^^^
20090415 01:38:06< ancestral> Haldir898: Perhaps you can give me some feedback on this, then: http://www.mproud.com/music/besieged-demo3.ogg
20090415 01:38:26< Haldir898> and what is this?
20090415 01:38:37< Haldir898> you make music?!?
20090415 01:38:38< ancestral> Piece of music, WIP
20090415 01:38:50< ancestral> the music channel is dead atm
20090415 01:39:08< Haldir898> NohNoh =)
20090415 01:39:11< Haldir898> sry
20090415 01:39:17< Haldir898> i don t want to get a trojan
20090415 01:39:20< Haldir898> :P
20090415 01:39:24< ancestral> Riiiiight
20090415 01:39:54< ancestral> You know how much of a security risk it is whenever you see a .ogg file
20090415 01:39:56< ancestral> …
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20090415 01:40:24< Haldir898> i just be careful
20090415 01:41:18< ancestral> Okay, then try this on for size: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24732 if you don't like my link to my personal web site
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20090415 01:42:19< Haldir898> let s change the theme
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20090415 01:42:57< Haldir898> anybody like to play 2vs2 isar crossover?
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20090415 01:44:53< noy> ... most people prefer to play rather than chat
20090415 01:45:11< noy> there are development specific channels, but you shouldn't be interested in them
20090415 01:45:39< Haldir898> höh?
20090415 01:45:51< Haldir898> why want nobody talk?
20090415 01:46:00< Haldir898> ...it s soooooooooo booooooooooooring
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20090415 01:47:09< ancestral> A lot of people talk in the multiplayer lobby when you connect to a game
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20090415 01:50:40< Haldir898> nooo not many
20090415 01:51:39< noy> go play a game or something and stop being a bother
20090415 01:55:14< Haldir898> ...
20090415 01:55:20< Haldir898> ignor wtf
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20090415 01:55:44< noy> ...
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20090415 02:50:57< Turuk> Always nice to come back and see charming chat
20090415 02:51:10< Blueblaze> ?
20090415 02:51:21< ancestral> You missed our visitor before
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20090415 02:51:40< ancestral> He complained it was too quiet and then barked up a storm, complaining it was to boring
20090415 02:51:45< ancestral> *too
20090415 02:51:46< Blueblaze> lol
20090415 02:56:31< Turuk> Those who complain about it being quiet are usually only complaining about a lack of an audience for them to talk to ;)
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20090415 04:19:19< voris> *giggle*
20090415 04:19:33< voris> That was an interesting break in the string of join/part messages. ;)
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20090415 07:04:00< Ischaldirh> haha
20090415 07:04:15< Ischaldirh> poor guy needs to learn the fine art of lurking
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20090415 07:27:22< keb> ancestral : i like it!
20090415 07:27:31< ancestral> keb: yay
20090415 07:28:11< keb> it would make a nice background for a campaign scenario
20090415 07:29:23< ancestral> What I think the goal now is to re-use established themes in a creative way forming new songs
20090415 07:30:06< ancestral> Motifs
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20090415 07:36:09< ancestral> Goodness the Wesnoth dl's are taking fo-eva
20090415 07:36:23< ancestral> Are there torrents available? Srsly
20090415 07:36:31< ancestral> I've been downloading this file for like 3 hours
20090415 07:36:41< keb> might be
20090415 07:38:25< ancestral> Eh I just started it over and now my speed has increased 100x
20090415 07:38:34< ancestral> yay for sf.net…
20090415 07:38:40< ancestral> …
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20090415 10:52:27< Ivanovic> moin
20090415 10:53:28< Unnheulu> hi all =)
20090415 11:16:51< ancestral> We now have (unofficial) torrents for downloading Wesnoth
20090415 11:17:10< ancestral> just as an alternative
20090415 11:17:11< ancestral> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25064
20090415 11:19:02< Ivanovic> ancestral: what for?
20090415 11:19:13< Ivanovic> with torrents you will never get the speed the sf.net mirrors deliver
20090415 11:19:19< ancestral> Ivanovic: sf.net was crawling for me
20090415 11:19:23< Ivanovic> (they are able to saturate my 16MBit line)
20090415 11:19:28< ancestral> You'd think
20090415 11:19:32< Ivanovic> then select a different mirror
20090415 11:19:37< ancestral> Then it took me 3 hours or more to download the Mac client
20090415 11:19:55< ancestral> In hindsight, that might have been a wise decision
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20090415 11:22:28< Ivanovic> in general especially the german and swiss mirrors are rather fast for me
20090415 11:22:54< Ivanovic> (okay, i also live here, but eg mesh solutions seems to have a really good line...)
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20090415 11:25:25< ancestral> I'm sure you're right in that I probably would have been better off just by selecting another mirror. But hey, nothing hurts if people want to download from peers, in that rare moment sf.net undergoes emergency maintenance or what-have-you
20090415 11:26:09< ancestral> Ever since they changed the interface where it geo-locates you and selects the mirror for you I've kind of forgotten about the changing-mirrors thing
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20090415 11:31:58< Ivanovic> ancestral: the problem with torrents is: where to get seeds from?
20090415 11:32:15< Ivanovic> since not many are using it you will barely get enough bandwidth out of it
20090415 11:32:24< ancestral> Yeah
20090415 11:32:58< Ivanovic> the good old hen/egg proble
20090415 11:33:00< Ivanovic> m
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20090415 11:34:39< ancestral> You're right, I won't deny it
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20090415 12:20:09-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth to: Wesnoth User Channel | www.wesnoth.org | http://addons.wesnoth.org | latest stable version: 1.6.1 | latest development version: none | public IRC logs: irclogs.wesnoth.org
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20090415 13:57:12< Haldir898> Hi @ all
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20090415 14:26:42< Haldir8982> Hi @ all
20090415 14:33:54< Shadow_Master> hi, but there's usually no need to say "hi" in large channels :)
20090415 14:34:51< Soliton> doesn't hurt but it's silly to expect a hi back.
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20090415 14:36:14< Haldir8982> hm, k
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20090415 14:40:22< keb> hi back :P
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20090415 14:41:06< Haldir8982> but it shows, that you notice other players...i think that makes a better atmosphere
20090415 14:42:36< Soliton> right, 40+ "hi" replies whenever someone joins is an awesome "athmosphere".
20090415 14:46:10< Haldir8982> ... as you may suppose
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20090415 17:53:50< AnMaster> considering the existence of user made campaigns and such: to what degree does wesnoth sandbox them?
20090415 17:54:29< AnMaster> what if for example a scenario tried to include a file like ../../../../../../etc/passwd or whatever?
20090415 17:55:14< Soliton> you can't use .. in paths.
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20090415 17:55:43< AnMaster> Soliton, so wesnoth terminates parsing if an error is found?
20090415 17:55:48< AnMaster> of that sort
20090415 17:56:21< AnMaster> and what about passing a string instead of an integer for the x coordinate or something like that?
20090415 17:56:23< Soliton> it'll complain about the include missing and go on.
20090415 17:56:28< AnMaster> mhm
20090415 17:56:37< Soliton> every value is a string.
20090415 17:57:53< AnMaster> well, what if you tried  [scroll_to] x=foo y=13 [/scroll_to] (newlines omitted for brevity)
20090415 17:58:01< AnMaster> or something like that
20090415 17:58:30< Soliton> then it'll probably scroll to 0,13.
20090415 17:58:52< AnMaster> hm, and out of range values, say x=999 for a much smaller map?
20090415 17:59:10< AnMaster> well not just scroll_to, but I mean sanity checking in general.
20090415 18:00:12< Soliton> there is no general sanity checking. you check what's sane for a specific key.
20090415 18:00:32< AnMaster> reading comments in some scenario files talking about working around segfaults and so on made me wonder how easy it would be to cause wesnoth to not just crash, but do something malicious, such as execute shell code due to buffer overflow or whatever.
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20090415 18:01:19 * AnMaster goes test some stuff
20090415 18:01:20< Soliton> crashing an application and making it execute arbitrary code is quite a different thing.
20090415 18:02:46< AnMaster> Soliton, that's true, but often non-intentional uses of exploits tend to cause crashes due to ending up running random data. Of course I don't know what type of crashes those ones mentioned were, but it still made me wonder
20090415 18:03:27< AnMaster> btw, I noticed -t for loading that test scenario, but how does one load a test scenario with a different filename
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20090415 18:05:27< Dragonking> Like -f formula -d
20090415 18:05:51< Dragonking> s/-f/-t/
20090415 18:06:38< Dragonking> formula is name of another test scenario.
20090415 18:07:18< Dragonking> There are 2-4 test scenarios depending on which version of wesnoth you have.
20090415 18:08:06< Dragonking> Located under data/scenario*.cfg
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20090415 18:09:50< Dragonking> If you want to run some custom scenario from commandline, try -m with appriopiate options.
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20090415 18:26:42< AnMaster> Dragonking, ah thanks
20090415 18:27:14< AnMaster> Dragonking, as for version: r34939 (trunk)
20090415 18:28:09< AnMaster> Dragonking, so -t takes an optional parameter? Hm...
20090415 18:28:26< AnMaster> in that case it seems --help is wrong
20090415 18:28:44< Dragonking> It's apparently outdated.
20090415 18:30:17< AnMaster> ./wesnoth -t formula -d gave "The game map could not be loaded: Illegal character found in map. The scenario cannot be loaded."
20090415 18:30:18< AnMaster> huh
20090415 18:30:57< Dragonking> interesting
20090415 18:31:13< AnMaster> and svn st shows no change
20090415 18:31:17< AnMaster> changes*
20090415 18:32:18< AnMaster> Dragonking, does that command work for you? Or were you typing it from memory?
20090415 18:32:58< Dragonking> I'm investigating it.
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20090415 18:43:20< Dragonking> AnMaster: make clean && make
20090415 18:43:40< Dragonking> It was broken for me too till I recompiled.
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20090415 19:02:36< AnMaster> Dragonking, hm...
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20090415 19:02:59< AnMaster> Dragonking, didn't need to make clean, but svn up and make solved it
20090415 19:03:27< AnMaster> seems I forgot to recompile after updating to r34939. Were a few revisions behind
20090415 19:03:52< Dragonking> ok
20090415 19:05:39< AnMaster> Dragonking, but why would you need make clean? The build system is supposed to handle dependencies. (And I'm using the cmake build system, which seems to handle dependencies between files rather well. Something I noticed in my own projects using cmake for example)
20090415 19:06:49< Dragonking> I noticed that after some code changes just "make" is not enough. I'm using cmake too.
20090415 19:07:32< AnMaster> Dragonking, interesting, hm. What sort of code changes?
20090415 19:08:19< Dragonking> I can't recall exaxtly what kind of changes.
20090415 19:08:33 * Soliton uses scons so he never has to make clean again to fix mysterious bugs.
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20090415 19:08:53< AnMaster> if new files are added you would need to do cmake . (assuming you are using a glob in CMakeLists.txt) to make it notice the new files. But that is the only case I can think of.
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20090415 19:09:23< AnMaster> And looking at src/CMakeLists.txt it seems to explicitly list the files rather than use *.cpp
20090415 19:09:39< Dragonking> Yes it does list files.
20090415 19:09:57< AnMaster> (I guess that is because some stuff should go into *.a, some into wesnothd and so on, and they are all in one directory instead of separate directories)
20090415 19:10:51< Dragonking> I just revall that when I *sometimes* edis some stuff, it reports compilation errors. Making 'clean' and ten rebuilding fixes that.
20090415 19:11:04< Dragonking> s/edis/edit/
20090415 19:12:15< AnMaster> Soliton, I prefer build system where I don't need to spend 20 minutes to figure out how to do the equivalent of: CFLAGS="-m32" ./configure :P
20090415 19:12:38< AnMaster> well CXXFLAGS rather in this case
20090415 19:14:17< Soliton> prefering something you already know isn't really an argument for anything.
20090415 19:14:37< AnMaster> yes I know that scons ignores environment, which is rather confusing for the causal user who happens to need some special compiler flag or whatever to be able to compile successfully. Since autoconf has been so common for so long, it makes it much easier for users if they don't need to learn yet another build system for one project.
20090415 19:15:31< Soliton> well, our scons script take CXXFLAGS and LDFLAGS into account.
20090415 19:15:55< AnMaster> Soliton, hm is that a recent change then?
20090415 19:16:09< Soliton> no.
20090415 19:16:23< AnMaster> since I'm pretty sure I tried scons for wesnoth and I had issues with that. But that was some months ago.
20090415 19:18:44< AnMaster> I'm sure scons is great and so on. My point was that it is less easy for the casual end user used to ./configure && make && make install. He/she has to read up on how to use scons. Sure cmake is a change too, but then it is just replacing ./configure with cmake ., the rest being the same.
20090415 19:19:18< Soliton> a casual end user is not familiar with make at all. ;-)
20090415 19:20:17< AnMaster> Soliton, well, I guess I'm stuck in some nostalgia before ubuntu. Since I began using Linux back at Red Hat 5.0 (and left it for slackware quite soon, back then rpm hell was really a hell)
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20090415 19:22:19< AnMaster> Soliton, What about "causal advanced user"? Someone who knows about configure and make (and possibly svn co/up, but not ci, diff, revert, switch and so on). But isn't a programmer.
20090415 19:22:42< AnMaster> I'm pretty sure that type of user exists, having run into them on projects I worked on.
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20090415 19:23:26< Soliton> i do get your point about scons not being like make. no doubt that is true and people familiar with make will have issues with that.
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20090415 20:41:24< Polarina> Shadow_Master: Haha! You're gone and you can't silence me anymore! :D
20090415 20:41:39 * Polarina makes some noices.
20090415 20:41:46< Polarina> s/noices/noises/
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20090415 23:06:38< ancestral> Could anyone field a question or two about languages/translations and Wesnoth?
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20090415 23:07:09< Ivanovic> ancestral: anyone can do so
20090415 23:07:12< Ivanovic> bugs.wesnoth.org
20090415 23:07:44< ancestral> Uh, not a bug, I'll just ask away
20090415 23:07:56< Ivanovic> though if it is about mistakes in an explicit translation, just tell the maintainers: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesnothTranslations
20090415 23:08:13< ancestral> Can I start up Wesnoth in another language, say, through the Terminal or Console?
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20090415 23:08:28< Ivanovic> hehe, not via a startcommand
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20090415 23:08:52< Ivanovic> *but* you can use LC_ALL="de_DE" wesnoth
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20090415 23:09:00< ancestral> Am I likely going to have change the default language of the system before launching?
20090415 23:09:06< Ivanovic> as long as the ingame setting is "use system locale"
20090415 23:09:17< ancestral> Where is the setting located?
20090415 23:09:23< Ivanovic> beside this you can alter the preferences file or just click on "change language" in the main menu
20090415 23:09:32< ancestral> Oh you can?
20090415 23:09:44< Ivanovic> sure
20090415 23:09:46 * ancestral has never tried…
20090415 23:10:16 * ancestral smacks head as there's a "Language" button in the main menu!
20090415 23:10:20< ancestral> Wow, okay :)
20090415 23:10:24< Ivanovic> read the manual: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/wesnoth/branches/1.6/doc/manual/manulanguageal.en.html#
20090415 23:10:59< ancestral> One more question
20090415 23:11:12< ancestral> If I was to create a dialect and make the .po file and all that
20090415 23:11:43< ancestral> Is there a way to tell it to default to another language, or would the system default language kick in automatically?
20090415 23:11:59< Ivanovic> depends on the operating system and your settings ingame
20090415 23:12:45< Ivanovic> *if* you have set it to "system language" and are eg on linux (where it is correctly detected!) it should switch the language when you change the system language (or when a previously not existing lang was used before)
20090415 23:13:23< Ivanovic> with other words: it is a non trival question
20090415 23:13:39< ancestral> If a scenario doesn't have a translation in the language you've chosen
20090415 23:13:50< ancestral> Does it default to the system language next?
20090415 23:13:51< Ivanovic> basically: once you select a language ingame and quit, it will load with this selected language you start the next time
20090415 23:13:58< Ivanovic> and yes "system default" *IS* a language...
20090415 23:14:24< Ivanovic> if the scenario has no translation into the lang that you have chosen, it does default to the original string, which is in english
20090415 23:14:30< Ivanovic> (american english that is)
20090415 23:15:05< ancestral> So if I chose Pig Latin and quit and opened it back up and Legend of Wesmere doesn't have Pig Latin, it' *should* default to whatever language my system is running?
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20090415 23:15:15< Ivanovic> NO
20090415 23:15:35< ancestral> Would I even see LoW listed?
20090415 23:15:40< Ivanovic> if you are using eg the norwegian translation, every string that is translated to norwegian is displayed in norwegian
20090415 23:16:00< Ivanovic> every string that is *not* translated is shown as the original string that was used when creating the game, which is american english
20090415 23:16:08< ancestral> Okay super
20090415 23:16:27< Ivanovic> so yes, it is posisble that you see eg half of the main menu in norwegian and teh other half in american english
20090415 23:16:39< Ivanovic> (norwegian just as example with "not too much done")
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20090415 23:17:22< Ischaldirh> Oh wow
20090415 23:17:25< Ischaldirh> Actual conversation
20090415 23:17:31< Ischaldirh> I'm suprised
20090415 23:17:43< Ivanovic> have a look at http://gettext.wesnoth.org to get an idea how likely it is to get an american english string when using this explicit language ingame
20090415 23:18:05< ancestral> Wow, that's awesome
20090415 23:18:07< Ivanovic> that is: a translation at 100% should (ingame) show basically no string to the user in (american) english
20090415 23:18:20< Ivanovic> a translation with 0% done will show every string in (american) english
20090415 23:19:12< ancestral> Could a new .po be added without re-compiling, or is that necessary?
20090415 23:19:26< Ivanovic> you at least have to "compile" the .po files to .mo files
20090415 23:19:38< Ivanovic> but there are no changes to the c++ files needed (at all)
20090415 23:20:26< ancestral> Sorry to keep asking you questions
20090415 23:20:28< Ivanovic> you only have to have the .mo files in the correct folder and provide a lang_COUNTRY.cfg file in data/languages (to have the translation selectable ingame)
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20090415 23:46:16< Ivanovic> n8
20090415 23:46:49< Polarina> Sleep tight, Ivanovic.  :-)
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--- Log closed Thu Apr 16 00:00:06 2009