--- Log opened Fri May 15 00:00:07 2009
20090515 00:04:49< Ivanovic> time for heading off to bed, n8
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20090515 00:20:30< boucman> hey all
20090515 00:20:39< Crab_> hi boucman
20090515 00:20:53< boucman> so, what's up ?
20090515 00:22:01< Crab_> can you review a patch ? ftp://ftp.terraninfo.net/wesnoth/patch_states.txt
20090515 00:22:17< boucman> looking
20090515 00:22:51< Crab_> it reduces AI turn time from 10.10 to 9.30, in my test case. and should help even better with --nogui.
20090515 00:24:07< Crab_> the idea of a patch is "move some states which are boolean and well-known " to a separate content-addressable table, to avoid std::string constructors and O(lnN) lookup and std::map overhead when getting them.
20090515 00:24:40< Crab_> backward-compatibility is a goal, too.
20090515 00:26:13< boucman> hmm
20090515 00:26:46< boucman> not a big deal but the known_boolean_state seems to be known at compile time, to not change and be the same for all units,
20090515 00:27:06< boucman> couldn't you avoid some useless calculation around get_known_boolean_state_names()  ?
20090515 00:28:05< Crab_> how ?
20090515 00:28:49< Crab_> known_boolean_state_names_ is a static map, so get_known_boolean_state_names() is 1-time only
20090515 00:28:57< Crab_> or do I miss something ?
20090515 00:29:28< boucman> no, I missed it (reading patches is not always trivial)
20090515 00:29:45< Crab_> all ok ) I's better to miss in this direction :)
20090515 00:30:57< Crab_> btw, boucman, I already see 1 error in my patch :)
20090515 00:31:38< boucman> yes ?
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20090515 00:31:55< Crab_> yes ) it's small, and you'll spot it, too )
20090515 00:32:17< boucman> not sure I will, I'm more looking at the logic and the idea than the fine details
20090515 00:32:25< Crab_> ok )
20090515 00:32:45< boucman> nope, didn't see it
20090515 00:33:06< Crab_> -		if (utils::string_bool(get_state("poisoned")) ){ +		if (get_state(STATE_PETRIFIED) ){ 
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20090515 00:43:34< Crab_> boucman: so, the questions are 1) is it good for committing to trunk (i've playtested it and got no problems with slow, poison, or stoned units, and with saves) ? 
20090515 00:43:37< Crab_> 2) is it good for backporting to 1.6 ? (it is backward-compatible and gives +5-10% to ai turn time due to 1-line change   -	if(utils::string_bool(get_state("slowed"))) { +	if(get_state(STATE_SLOWED)) { )   in unit::movement_cost which is heavliy used by pathfinding. )
20090515 00:43:55< boucman> Crab_: I'd say yes and yes
20090515 00:44:01< Crab_> ok
20090515 00:44:11< boucman> i'll have quite a few stuff to backport too eventually
20090515 00:44:32< jazzencat> where do i go if I want to help with writing/editing scenarios for wesnoth?
20090515 00:46:26< boucman> ok, bed time for me
20090515 00:46:30< boucman> see you all tomorow
20090515 00:46:31< Crab_> night
20090515 00:48:32< Crab_> jazzencat: for example, you may try to seek someone who is writing scenarios for wesnoth and ask them about it. For example, seek out esr and fendrin here on IRC.
20090515 00:51:23< jazzencat> OK.
20090515 00:51:52< jazzencat> also interested in the Audio side, more on mastering etc...
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20090515 00:53:47< Crab_> jazzencat: there's also development forums - http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=26  , you can try posting there.
20090515 00:54:12< jazzencat> I will do so.   Thank you.
20090515 00:54:51< jazzencat> my laptop is running out of battery so I am signing off.
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20090515 01:23:27< CIA-30> crab * r35630 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): 
20090515 01:23:31< CIA-30> Added a content-addressable-table of unit states which are boolean and are used
20090515 01:23:37< CIA-30> by the game. This allows O(1) lookup of these unit states, and give ~ +10% to AI
20090515 01:23:41< CIA-30> speed (more with --nogui), due to get_state("slowed") replaced with
20090515 01:23:48< CIA-30> get_state(STATE_SLOWED) in unit::movement_cost calculation which is heavily used
20090515 01:23:52< CIA-30> by the pathfinding. This does the improvement described in Bug #13520
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20090515 03:45:02< CIA-30> esr * r35631 /trunk/data/campaigns/Northern_Rebirth/scenarios/ (6 files): It's silly to let a side recruit Swarvish Ulfserkers but no other kind of dwarf.
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20090515 04:12:53< [Relic]> Hello :)
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20090515 04:29:49< CIA-30> esr * r35632 /trunk/data/tools/ (wesnoth/wmltools.py wmlscope): Make python tools use hashlib instead of the deprecated md5 module.
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20090515 06:09:13-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.7.0 scheduled for Sunday | 62 bugs, 241 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090515 08:57:59< euschn> hi
20090515 08:58:05< YogiHH> hello
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20090515 09:37:16< CIA-30> ilor * r35633 /trunk/projectfiles/VC9/ (wesnoth.vcproj wesnothd.vcproj): set svn eol style on vc9 project files to hopefully make git behave nicer with them
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20090515 09:50:01< CIA-30> ilor * r35634 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): split server class definition to a header file
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20090515 10:05:17< CIA-30> esr * r35635 /trunk/data/core/about.cfg: Update my credits entry reflecting LoW and DM.
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20090515 10:47:27< Ivanovic> moin
20090515 10:48:14< Ivanovic> esr: probably someone using en_GB translation: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13518
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20090515 11:06:41< CIA-30> esr * r35636 /trunk/ (28 files in 7 dirs): 
20090515 11:06:41< CIA-30> Ckear SpellingMistakes sugggestions on campaigns. Trivial changes
20090515 11:06:41< CIA-30> (which is most of them) go to pofix.py to minimize translator work.
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20090515 11:16:36< tbm> Rhonda: the gcc 4.4 issue seems to be a compiler bug
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20090515 11:25:59< Rhonda> tbm: Looks like since silence said with 4.5 it doesn't happen. Glad that it got found. :)
20090515 11:26:32< tbm> ok
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20090515 11:37:09< Ivanovic> esr: got a problem with pofix.py:
20090515 11:37:11< Ivanovic>   File "/src/wesnoth/utils/pofix.py", line 66
20090515 11:37:12< Ivanovic>     )"fight our way through the Orcs or the Undead.", "fight our way through the orcs or the undead."),
20090515 11:37:23< Ivanovic> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
20090515 11:39:52< Soliton> s/)/(/
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20090515 11:40:54< CIA-30> ivanovic * r35637 /branches/1.6/ (6 files in 5 dirs): 
20090515 11:40:54< CIA-30> updated British English translation fixing several bugs pointed out by chusslove
20090515 11:40:54< CIA-30> this should also fix bug #13518
20090515 11:41:20< CIA-30> ivanovic * r35638 /trunk/utils/pofix.py: 
20090515 11:41:20< CIA-30> fix typo in pofix.py
20090515 11:41:20< CIA-30> - Diese und die folgenden Zeilen werden ignoriert --
20090515 11:41:20< CIA-30> M utils/pofix.py
20090515 11:41:39< CIA-30> ivanovic * r35639 /trunk/po/ (10 files in 10 dirs): 
20090515 11:41:39< CIA-30> updated British English translation fixing several bugs pointed out by chusslove
20090515 11:41:39< CIA-30> this should also fix bug #13518
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20090515 12:06:19< CIA-30> ivanovic * r35640 /trunk/ (394 files in 9 dirs): 
20090515 12:06:19< CIA-30> pot-update
20090515 12:06:19< CIA-30> regenerated doc files
20090515 12:09:13-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.7.0 scheduled for Sunday | 61 bugs, 241 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090515 13:32:12< Crab_> hi
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20090515 13:39:53< Ivanovic> hi Crab_
20090515 13:40:08< Ivanovic> Crab_: i hope marking https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13521 fixed was correct
20090515 13:40:40< Crab_> mordante said that he fixed it
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20090515 13:57:21 * zookeeper wonders if it'd be time to finally change "the peoples of the north" in the HttT intro into something more descriptive
20090515 13:57:38< zookeeper> such as "the orcish tribes of the north" or whatever.
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20090515 14:00:47< Ivanovic> zookeeper: good question
20090515 14:03:19< zookeeper> esr?
20090515 14:06:47< CIA-30> ivanovic * r35641 /trunk/data/core/about.cfg: updated list of Chinese (Traditional) translators
20090515 14:06:54< CIA-30> ivanovic * r35642 /branches/1.6/data/core/about.cfg: updated list of Chinese (Traditional) translators
20090515 14:07:06< Ivanovic> zookeeper: i fear that he is deep asleep atm
20090515 14:07:14< zookeeper> boucman, when the standing anim/frame is used as padding between combat anims, it gets drawn at the original non-combat layer (behind great trees, castle towers etc). would you be able to make it be drawn on top of all terrain just like the combat anims _when_ it's used as the fallback anim between combat anims?
20090515 14:07:17< Ivanovic> (and he tends not to read the logs...)
20090515 14:07:27< zookeeper> Ivanovic, yeah, i'll try to catch him later
20090515 14:08:31< loonycyborg> If he doesn't read logs then PM him :)
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20090515 14:26:50< Soliton> nice graphs for resource usage on wesnoth.org: collectd.wesnoth.org
20090515 14:29:11< Ivanovic> neat
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20090515 14:48:43< CIA-30> ivanovic * r35643 /trunk/po/ (3 files in 3 dirs): updated Chinese (Traditional) translation
20090515 14:48:48< CIA-30> ivanovic * r35644 /branches/1.6/po/ (wesnoth-ei/zh_TW.po wesnoth-httt/zh_TW.po): updated Chinese (Traditional) translation
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20090515 15:11:25< Soliton> mysqld uptime: ~21h; time used by the mysqld process: ~14h
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20090515 15:23:47< Ivanovic> woot?!?
20090515 15:24:01< Ivanovic> sounds like a "little" too much
20090515 15:25:13< Soliton> yeah, i would think so. no idea how to investigate though.
20090515 15:26:00< Soliton> i've added some interesting processes to collectd stats now.
20090515 15:26:40< Soliton> mysqld, stable mp and campaign servers.
20090515 15:29:24< Ivanovic> mysqld should only be used by the forums, stats.w.o, the wiki and wesnothd for authorizing, right?
20090515 15:29:58< Ivanovic> i don't think we have enough website visitors to really saturate forum/wiki/stats
20090515 15:30:01< Soliton> yeah, i think so.
20090515 15:30:17< Ivanovic> (though stats upload might be a problem, no idea...)
20090515 15:30:39< Soliton> yeah.
20090515 15:30:54< Ivanovic> so what i see as possible causes for problems is the mp login stuff or stats upload
20090515 15:31:21< Crab_> Soliton: you can try http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/slow-query-log.html
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20090515 15:34:08< YogiHH> Soliton: how many cores does the cpu of the webserver have?
20090515 15:34:13< Soliton> Crab_: that sounds like a good idea.
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20090515 15:34:52< Soliton> YogiHH: 2 with 2 cores each.
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20090515 15:35:44< YogiHH> Soliton: I don't know about unix machines, but for windows, 2 cores will double the process time displayed in the task manager
20090515 15:36:08< YogiHH> not sure if that holds for several cpu's as well
20090515 15:36:39 * YogiHH never enjoyed a true multiple cpu machine all by himself
20090515 15:36:50< Soliton> umm, so it shows double the time even if that's not what the process used?
20090515 15:36:58< YogiHH> yes
20090515 15:37:07< Soliton> how does that make any sense?
20090515 15:37:20 * YogiHH shrugs
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20090515 15:38:50< Soliton> anyway you can see CPU usage here: http://www.wesnoth.org/collection3/bin/index.cgi?plugin=cpu&plugin=processes&timespan=3600&action=show_selection&ok_button=OK
20090515 15:39:17< Soliton> quite a bit CPU is used all the time and mysql uses way more than for example wesnothd-1.6
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20090515 15:43:18< Ivanovic> YogiHH: it is not on *nix
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20090515 16:01:00< boucman> hey all
20090515 16:02:43< crimson_penguin> hi boucman 
20090515 16:03:43< Ivanovic> hi boucman
20090515 16:03:47< Soliton> ok, from the slow query log i think the stats are the problem.
20090515 16:04:13< Ivanovic> okay, something corn has to keep in mind, too
20090515 16:04:27< Ivanovic> Soliton: do you know how the upload stuff is done?
20090515 16:04:53< Ivanovic> IMO it might make sense to "collect" all uploaded data and just insert it into the db at regular intervals if this is not already done
20090515 16:05:01< Crab_> hi boucman
20090515 16:05:28< Soliton> it's inserted each call to the upload program, i think.
20090515 16:06:01< Soliton> (which nicely spams the apache error log at a nice rate.)
20090515 16:06:31< Ivanovic> not good
20090515 16:06:47< boucman> Crab_: how is it going ?
20090515 16:08:59< Crab_> nothing new to tell today. will commit composite ai tomorrow.
20090515 16:09:24< boucman> ok, sounds good
20090515 16:09:33< Ivanovic> Soliton: do you think it might help to upload the data into a (tiny) temporary database and insert it's content into the "real" one eg once a day in a "low usage" time?
20090515 16:09:55< Ivanovic> inserts into a tiny DB should be significantly faster than inserts into our huge one
20090515 16:10:27< Soliton> Ivanovic: yeah, caching the data before inserting sounds good to me.
20090515 16:11:36< Crab_> Ivanovic: it's better to 'store' the data into file(s), and then insert into huge db in chunks.
20090515 16:12:20< Ivanovic> in general the easiest solution is probably to just alter the database the stuff is sent to (or rename the main database, would not require changes on the client side) and use a plain script for merging/moving stuff over
20090515 16:12:21< Soliton> what shows up in the slow log is "SELECT campaign, difficulty, COUNT(game_id) FROM GAMES GROUP BY campaign, difficulty;" though not inserting.
20090515 16:12:36< Soliton> of course inserting might not be too expensive but just happen a lot.
20090515 16:13:14< Ivanovic> Crab_: i am currently also think about some way to directly make use of it without a new client version release
20090515 16:13:31< Ivanovic> though a "really good and clean solution" is of course prefered
20090515 16:13:45< Crab_> there's no need to change clients. clients don''t issue direct mysql calls :)
20090515 16:14:02< Soliton> yeah, the upload program needs changing only.
20090515 16:14:04< Ivanovic> good
20090515 16:14:15< Crab_> server-side changes should be enough...
20090515 16:14:44< Ivanovic> Soliton: and yeah, i can understand that this select command is damn slow
20090515 16:15:00< Ivanovic> there is just too much content for searching (imagine all the usermade stuff)
20090515 16:15:21< Crab_> and we should ask corn if he has got a plan to deal with 'uploading-inserting' 
20090515 16:15:22< Soliton> it seems every visit to stats.wesnoth.org causes one ~1 minute query to mysql.
20090515 16:15:30< Ivanovic> considering the amount of data by now is *bad*
20090515 16:15:36< Ivanovic> Crab_: jupp
20090515 16:15:52< Ivanovic> Soliton: have you tried actually *loading* stats.wesnoth.org?
20090515 16:15:56 * Crab_ visits stats.wesnoth.org ...
20090515 16:16:01< Ivanovic> loading the page takes ages...
20090515 16:16:38< Soliton> so if load gets too high we can just turn that page off...
20090515 16:16:41< Ivanovic> ugh, not good, not good at all
20090515 16:16:48< Ivanovic> Soliton: yes, we should consider this
20090515 16:16:59< Ivanovic> and we should also consider splitting the database by "version"
20090515 16:17:16< Ivanovic> atm there is lots of content that was never part of eg 1.6 listed, too
20090515 16:18:55< Soliton> heh, that site is really way to slow to be reasonably usable at all atm.
20090515 16:19:00< Ivanovic> so splitting and some way to show the different versions should already help
20090515 16:39:35< boucman> wesbot: seen silene
20090515 16:39:35< wesbot> boucman: The person with the nick silene last spoke 19h 29m ago.  18h 2m ago they left with the message: "Leaving."
20090515 16:58:51< Ivanovic> off for some hours, cu
20090515 16:59:17< boucman> bye
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20090515 17:24:58< crimson_penguin> I'd say turn off stats.wesnoth.org for now if it's that slow
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20090515 17:35:49< Baufo> Hey everyone
20090515 17:36:29< Baufo> Just wondering, has anything been decided about whether or not we are interested in this Glou project thingy?
20090515 17:39:24< Soliton> what's there to decide?
20090515 17:40:48< Baufo> Whether Wesnoth is going to participate in it?
20090515 17:46:05< Soliton> what does that mean?
20090515 17:46:56< Crab_> Baufo: afair, we rejected
20090515 17:48:30< Crab_> Baufo: see http://apps.sourceforge.net/mediawiki/glou/index.php?title=Projects
20090515 17:48:47< Crab_> it has "need to keep control, not interested (Noy)" as our answer
20090515 17:49:45< Baufo> Crab_: thank you
20090515 17:49:52< Soliton> which was not sent to our mailing list nor does it prevent any wesnoth dev to participate.
20090515 17:50:51< Crab_> Soliton: of course
20090515 17:52:26< Soliton> (so "we rejected" is not true.)
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20090515 17:55:04< Crab_> Soliton: yes. "not expressed interest so far" is more accurate ;)
20090515 17:58:45< Crab_> Soliton: note that http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/MP_Server_Ilor involves lobby changes, too.
20090515 18:00:35< Soliton> Crab_: afaict glou is about meta servers, so one step higher than wesnothd.
20090515 18:01:01< Soliton> Crab_: it doesn't seem very suited to our server concept though.
20090515 18:01:33< Crab_> Soliton: some of ilor's work may depend on the implementation details of the lobby/chat protocol
20090515 18:02:52< Soliton> which is quite independent of the lobby/chat protocol of some meta server.
20090515 18:04:45< Crab_> they can be dependent. it all depends on the architecture chosen.
20090515 18:07:11< Soliton> if they're dependent that means glou wants to rewrite every game server out there.
20090515 18:09:01< Crab_> no, for example, if someone wants to make 'shared in-game and out of game and meta server chat', they only need to have each game server speak a defined protocol (for example, make each game server a XMPP server)
20090515 18:09:13-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.7.0 scheduled for Sunday | 60 bugs, 241 feature requests, 9 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090515 18:10:38< Soliton> right, which means rewriting every game out there but i suppose that might well be the plan.
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20090515 18:15:41< Soliton> according to http://apps.sourceforge.net/mediawiki/glou/index.php?title=Architecture that seems indeed like the plan.
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20090515 18:16:41< Crab_> it seems that only the 'chat/friendlist/in-game lobby interface' parts are to be rewritten.
20090515 18:17:55< Soliton> well, of course i didn't mean that they want to rewrite the game logic or whatever.
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20090515 18:18:08< Crab_> and they'll try to create a 'generic' lobby interface for those projects which don't want to write  lobby interface themselves.
20090515 18:18:37< Crab_> MP protocol doesn't need rewrite, too
20090515 18:19:19< Soliton> now which is it?
20090515 18:20:27< Crab_> Soliton: sorry, I haven't understood that question :)
20090515 18:20:41< EdB> I've never heard of it before. Since how long does it exist ?
20090515 18:21:32< Soliton> EdB: they sent a mail to our ml about a month ago.
20090515 18:21:40< Crab_> EdB: it doesn't exist yet :) it has ~1.5 months of history
20090515 18:22:03< Crab_> http://apps.sourceforge.net/mediawiki/glou/index.php?title=Timeline
20090515 18:22:13< Soliton> Crab_: well, first you say "may depend on the implementation details of the lobby/chat protocol" and then "MP protocol doesn't need rewrite".
20090515 18:23:27< Soliton> there isn't anyone here who knows collectd by chance?
20090515 18:23:31< Crab_> " *some of ilor's work* may depend on the implementation details of the lobby/chat protocol "
20090515 18:27:09< Crab_> Let me repeat what I've wanted to say: 1) to support glou, the following parts will need rewrite: lobby protocol/ chat protocol  2) will not need rewrite: MP protocol 3) ilor's work depends on implementation details of lobby protocol/ chat protocol.
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20090515 18:33:50< EdB> do you know people behind it ? Do they have a "open source background" ?
20090515 18:34:18< Soliton> i don't see where it says that the game allows you to communicate with other glou participants.
20090515 18:34:33< Soliton> i'd imagine there will be some glou client that does that.
20090515 18:35:51< Soliton> how would you even message some other glou participant from wesnoth?
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20090515 18:36:44< Crab_> Soliton: something like http://apps.sourceforge.net/mediawiki/glou/index.php?title=Game_API
20090515 18:38:32< Soliton> that's the glou client, right?
20090515 18:38:48< Crab_> that's a C library for interfacing between some-game-code and glou
20090515 18:39:01< Crab_> they will reuse it in  their glou client, too
20090515 18:39:40< Soliton> well, then it's for communication with the glou client. either way independent of in-game communication.
20090515 18:40:07< Soliton> of course you could use the same protocol in-game if you like.
20090515 18:40:25< Crab_> yes, that's what I'm about. 
20090515 18:41:08< Crab_> so game chat will be sent/received not through game MP protocol, but through this lib.
20090515 18:42:03< Soliton> which prety much makes no sense for us.
20090515 18:42:09< Crab_> why ?
20090515 18:42:24< Soliton> we have working ingame chat.
20090515 18:42:41< Noyga> my not making some sort of glou proxy instead ? No need to use an additionnal dependancy if we don't need it
20090515 18:43:27< Soliton> what would the proxy do?
20090515 18:43:28< Crab_> Noyga: you mean 'move glou support to MP server, to avoid  additional dependency in the clients' ?
20090515 18:44:24< Noyga> well for wesnoth dunnno what glou would be really useful for 
20090515 18:44:38< Soliton> me neither. :-)
20090515 18:45:24< EdB> to know when frien is about to play for exemple.
20090515 18:47:33< EdB> Imagine, i'm chating on wesnoth-dev. My glou global client is running. You connect. as your are part of my friend list and I enjoy to play with you, I can decide to start my wesntoh client and win, hum, play a party with you
20090515 18:48:20< Soliton> right, but as soon as you're in your wesnoth client, glou is irrelevant.
20090515 18:48:34< EdB> I agree with that
20090515 18:48:45< Crab_> Soliton: 'but as soon as you're in your wesnoth client, glou is irrelevant.'  no
20090515 18:48:53< Soliton> well, apart from doing whatever you do with your glou client.
20090515 18:49:06< Crab_> Soliton: "wesnoth client" can be a glou client, too.
20090515 18:49:06< Soliton> like chatting with other glou users.
20090515 18:49:35< Soliton> sure. but it's still seperate.
20090515 18:49:36< EdB> send and recieve gamle invitation
20090515 18:49:47< Crab_> why separate ?
20090515 18:49:57< Soliton> and i don't really see the point of incorporating a glou client in every game.
20090515 18:50:07< Soliton> how do you switch games then?
20090515 18:50:08< Crab_> for example, a limited subset of glou client capabilities can be implemented as in-game commands.
20090515 18:50:13< Crab_> chat, for example.
20090515 18:50:28< Soliton> sure, seperat of our ingame chat.
20090515 18:50:37< Crab_> Soliton: why separate ?
20090515 18:50:53< Soliton> how else will you manage that?
20090515 18:51:43< Soliton> if you chat in a wesnoth game you chat in a wesnoth game not in a glou lounge or whatever.
20090515 18:51:54< Crab_> Soliton: user A, wesnoth_client_A plays with user B, wesnoth_client_B.    A sends a chat message to B. this message is delivered by route 'A -> wesnoth_client_A -> glou_server -> wesnoth_client_B -> B'
20090515 18:52:05< Noyga> does glou manage bans ? ignore lists ? rooms ?
20090515 18:52:17< EdB> Well since wesnoth has is own game in chat, this part is not really useful in a first time
20090515 18:52:24< Soliton> Noyga: i'd think so.
20090515 18:52:31< Crab_> EdB: it is not useful it all, at first
20090515 18:52:54< Crab_> EdB: it only becomes useful if 1) it is working 2) multiple games support it
20090515 18:53:03< Crab_> atm, it is not useful at all.
20090515 18:53:06< Soliton> Crab_: if you chat in a wesnoth game you don't talk to user B you talk to the game, ie. its participants.
20090515 18:53:14< Soliton> Crab_: glou has no clue about that.
20090515 18:53:40< Soliton> so, yes you can have seperate chat to glou users but that's now wesnoth chat.
20090515 18:53:48< Soliton> s/now/not/
20090515 18:53:56< Noyga> and does glou authentication can be shared with a phpBB forum ?
20090515 18:54:14< Soliton> Noyga: it's all just an idea. :-)
20090515 18:54:33< EdB> Soliton: I guess it could have some "in game " chan and "external chan"
20090515 18:54:50< Soliton> EdB: yes.
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20090515 18:55:44< Noyga> or to your *team* for some messages 
20090515 18:55:49< Soliton> having the in game chan be glou compatible is again irrelevant and would infact be just a lot of hassle for wesnoth if it were.
20090515 18:57:57< Crab_> Soliton: well, there's not much point in having *fully external* chat. so, to be useful, glou chat needs to be in-game too (it can be separate from wesnoth chat)
20090515 18:58:36< Crab_> Soliton: this will, for example, allow user playing full-screen wesnoth to talk with a buggy playing fullscreen some-other-game-which-supports-this
20090515 18:58:51< Soliton> Crab_: you have your glou client running anyway, why not use it to chat instead of duplicating that functionality into every game?
20090515 18:59:41< Soliton> afair chat in steam is also an extra app and not built into every steam app.
20090515 19:00:37< Crab_> Soliton: 1) if you're running full-screen, it's a hassle to switch  2) if you want to, say, add a current opponent to your glou friend list, you'd want to do so without having to search for his nick in external application.
20090515 19:01:51< Soliton> if you can't remember his nick over a 5 second period you have different issues. :->
20090515 19:02:16< Crab_> when there's many simular nicknames ?
20090515 19:02:23< Soliton> unifiying glou nicks with wesnoth nicks is a different problem also.
20090515 19:02:51< Crab_> yes. but without unification, there's not much point in *supporting* glou.
20090515 19:03:11< Soliton> i'm not sure if they'll really try to unify all nick names of games with an established userbase.
20090515 19:03:36< Soliton> does it say anything about that somewhere?
20090515 19:03:53< EdB> some domain (ie particular game) nick list could be the solution
20090515 19:04:09< Noyga> well we already have a nick thing : forum <-> game shared authentifcation (bzflag has this too)
20090515 19:04:25< Soliton> yeah, you'd need to add prefixes for every game (domain) or so.
20090515 19:04:34< Crab_> jabber id's are name@domain
20090515 19:05:56< Crab_> "a reference implementation of a game lounge server including community features (user database, statistics, chatting, etc.) "
20090515 19:06:00< Crab_> from http://apps.sourceforge.net/mediawiki/glou/index.php?title=Main_Page
20090515 19:07:30< Noyga> bu then i will have to manage Nick1@game1 and Nick1@game2, Nick2@game3 while Nick1@game3 and Nick2@game2 are another persons ?
20090515 19:07:47< Crab_> Noyga, no
20090515 19:08:05< Soliton> doesn't say whether they want to use the glou nicks in each game.
20090515 19:08:33< Crab_> Noyga: @game1 is considered part of your nick
20090515 19:08:38< Soliton> would be nice of course but i don't really see that happening.
20090515 19:09:06< Soliton> nor do they explicitely mention it anywhere afaict.
20090515 19:09:22< Noyga> so if u play several game i need several nick ? what's the point ?
20090515 19:09:33< Crab_> Noyga: if u play several games, you need 1 nick.
20090515 19:09:36< EdB>  nor they have any real inplementation :)
20090515 19:10:03< Crab_> Noyga: this nick can be name@yourdomain, as long as yourdomain runs a jabber server. it's like email.
20090515 19:10:24< Crab_> EdB: yes. and so it makes little sense to do something to be compatible with them.
20090515 19:11:40< Soliton> which brings us back to the point that there is nothing to decide (reject or not) atm. :-)
20090515 19:11:52< EdB> Crab_: I was kidding, I like that concept, I was once part of something like that.
20090515 19:12:22< EdB> I had even made patch for wesnoth for such thing
20090515 19:12:29< Noyga> then it won't work with the forum (like it works for wesnoth and bzflag). 
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20090515 19:15:04 * Noyga likes ingame_nick/passwd = forum_nick/passwd
20090515 19:15:50< CIA-30> esr * r35645 /trunk/utils/pofix.py: Eliminate some false-positive matches.
20090515 19:17:00< Crab_> Soliton: so, one of the question they asked, was ' would you use the system in your game if it is done "the right way"  ?' 
20090515 19:17:27< Soliton> yes!
20090515 19:17:39< Soliton> i like the right way.
20090515 19:18:23< Crab_> so, the current answer ("need to keep control, not interested"), in their wiki, is not that accurate :)
20090515 19:19:29< Soliton> as i see it there is no answer possible currently since it's not clear what exactly they want to do.
20090515 19:19:59< Crab_> I think that they themselves do not know fully atm :) but they invite to take part in the discussion :)
20090515 19:20:09< Soliton> if it's just about changing some protocols it hardly effects our "control" for example.
20090515 19:20:48< Soliton> yeah, it was just an invitation which we won't reject as a project but every developer can decide for themself.
20090515 19:21:08< Soliton> s/won't/can't/
20090515 19:26:49< EdB> I'm pretty sure that wesnoth can bond a system like that without too much change. Like game and who is online publication
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20090515 21:06:01< mordante> servus
20090515 21:07:47< mordante> Ivanovic, marking https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13521 was ok, it is indeed fixed now
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20090515 21:11:02< Ivanovic> okay
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20090515 21:18:32< cjhopman> mordante, you around?
20090515 21:18:41< mordante> cjhopman, yes
20090515 21:19:14< cjhopman> in sdl_utils, get_rect_union returns the intersection, not the union
20090515 21:20:01< cjhopman> it does nearly the same as intersect_rects (that one will return rects with 0 height or width)
20090515 21:24:25< cjhopman> I had added union_rects because I need the union (i didn't want to change get_rect_union because I wasn't sure if you wanted the union or the intersection)
20090515 21:26:19< cjhopman> or rather, I don't need the union but the smallest rect that contains the union (since the union isn't necessarily a rectangle)
20090515 21:31:03< mordante> hmm, can't really remember what I thought at the time, but guess the intersection function should indeed also work
20090515 21:31:44< mordante> I prefer to wait until after the weekend and the tagging of 1.7.0 before looking into it
20090515 21:33:22< Soliton> stats on number of connections to campaignd and wesnothd: wesnothd.wesnoth.org
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20090515 21:47:48< ilor> hi mordante
20090515 21:48:13< mordante> hi ilor 
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20090515 21:53:27< mordante> ilor, you want to discuss further now or tomorrow? (I'll be around most of the day tomorrow)
20090515 21:53:51< ilor> I'd prefer now, I'll be mostly offline tomorrow
20090515 21:54:06< ilor> one of the last days this semester that I can afford "losing" ;)
20090515 21:54:38< ilor> so, right now I decided to skip right to the actual point of the server side changes
20090515 21:54:50< ilor> and look into what's needed to implement the rooms
20090515 21:55:30< ilor> mordante do you happen to know if network::connection identifiers are reused during the lifetime of wesnothd?
20090515 21:56:07< mordante> no never looked at them, maybe boucman knows
20090515 21:57:24< ilor> ok it looks like there's a static counter incremented every time so no reuse
20090515 21:58:29< ilor> basically what I'm doing now is that I noticed the code has no easy way of determining where a player currently is (it scans all games quite often)
20090515 21:59:06< ilor> and I guess it'd make more sence to have a map of player->game for quick access and quick checking of whether a player is in a game
20090515 21:59:40< ilor> in a similar vein I'd add a (multi)map of player->channel
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20090515 22:01:18< Soliton> actually a player has the game_id in itx config nowadays.
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20090515 22:02:21< mordante> sounds reasonable
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20090515 22:03:18< ilor> Soliton: seems like it's not used everywhere it should be
20090515 22:03:28< Soliton> certainly.
20090515 22:03:36< Soliton> it's not used anywhere.
20090515 22:03:48< ilor> ;)
20090515 22:04:42< mordante> I'm not surprised ;-)
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20090515 22:06:34< ilor> sorry for that, wireless hiccup
20090515 22:07:50< ilor> what is a "ghost player"?
20090515 22:09:09< mordante> afaik a player which is no longer around but the server still thinks it's there
20090515 22:11:52< ilor> looks like it's a list of players to ping during the next iteration
20090515 22:12:27< ilor> this looks like a possible performance issue
20090515 22:12:41< ilor> the entire players map is copied, by value, into the ping map
20090515 22:13:29< mordante> autsch, how often do we ping?
20090515 22:13:35< ilor> and this includes copying a string and the player's simple_wml::node
20090515 22:13:50< ilor> 30 secs
20090515 22:14:34< ilor> so not that bad, but somewhat pointless since storing the connection id's would be enough. I'll fix this 
20090515 22:15:05< ilor> git's git stash really helps
20090515 22:15:33< mordante> yep, git really is nice 
20090515 22:16:19< ilor> local commits and the stash are the two major thing that won me over
20090515 22:16:44< mordante> branches are great as well :-)
20090515 22:23:30< Soliton> well, the stash is a branch.
20090515 22:25:26< mordante> true, but I often do experimental stuff in a branch and merge there cleanup version in a new branch and commit that
20090515 22:27:51< mordante> I'm off night
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20090515 23:11:07< CIA-30> mcshark * r35646 /trunk/projectfiles/ (CodeBlocks/wesnothd.cbp CodeBlocks-SCons/wesnothd.cbp): Added src/server/server.hpp
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20090515 23:16:20< CIA-30> ilor * r35647 /trunk/src/server/ (server.cpp server.hpp): make the server use just the ids for the next ping (ghost_players_) structure instead of the entire copy of the id-player data map
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--- Log closed Sat May 16 00:00:17 2009