--- Log opened Fri Jun 26 00:00:08 2009
--- Day changed Fri Jun 26 2009
20090626 00:00:08< Aethaeryn> (or at least, completed)
20090626 00:00:10< Crab_> Soliton: but, formula_ai and composite_ai are determined by config part, as well
20090626 00:00:47< Crab_> Soliton: so, for formula_ai and ai_composite, we need an new 'identifier', since two different ai's can have the same a_algorithm.
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20090626 00:01:33< Crab_> boucman: so, your 'solution 3' is possible, but that new ai "id" must be 'unique and required'
20090626 00:01:51< Aethaeryn> Crab_: I guess I could add WML modifiers to give the AI 500 gold every 5 or 10 turns, then?
20090626 00:01:54< Crab_> boucman: since otherwise we will not be able to find 'where is our current ai' when we redeploy
20090626 00:02:07< Aethaeryn> not the ideal solution, but at least in numbers, the AI has a chance. they're always toughest at the very beginning when you give them lots of gold
20090626 00:02:34< Aethaeryn> (I guess the reason most other strategy games I play, RTS games, seem to have better AI is because they can think so fast... in Turn Based it really shows)
20090626 00:02:38< Crab_> Aethaeryn: yes. or, you can give them a +INCOME ?
20090626 00:03:35< boucman> Crab_: i'm not sure I follow you
20090626 00:03:36< Aethaeryn> Crab_: I don't think +18 income is going to do as much
20090626 00:04:00< Aethaeryn> again, the AI starts trickling and isn't as strong as if they fought in packs or "waves"
20090626 00:04:07< Crab_> Aethaeryn: +500 gold every 5 turns ~= +100 income
20090626 00:04:27< Aethaeryn> perhaps I should make a single player era, for use mostly for the larger maps
20090626 00:04:40< Aethaeryn> basically, it would detect for AI, and then compensate by letting the AI do this wave thing
20090626 00:04:56< Soliton> Crab_: well, when you choose an AI how is that config part chosen?
20090626 00:04:57< Aethaeryn> have it get reinforcements at turn 10, and then every 5 turns afterward or something
20090626 00:04:58< Crab_> Aethaeryn: and, regarding "hmm, a little disappointing to fight on the larger maps" - yes, there are known issues with ai think speed and grouping - but, atm, it's hard to 'fix' without risking breakage. work on new ai is done to allow us to start improving some parts of ai
20090626 00:05:38< Aethaeryn> Crab_: do you think that's the best solution for someone like me? Using WML to make the AI "cheat"?
20090626 00:06:10< Aethaeryn> Let's say the AI gets +500 at the beginning, +500 at turn 10, and then every 5 turns afterward. Makes up for lack of tactics on large maps because it'd have so many
20090626 00:06:45< Aethaeryn> of course, I wouldn't want to give it *too* many, so maybe 300
20090626 00:06:58< Crab_> Aethaeryn: maybe try multiple opponents, each of them constrained by map to attack from a different side ?
20090626 00:07:36< Rrenys> or you may alternatively have player units stone at random moments
20090626 00:07:56< Aethaeryn> Crab_: well, I figure next time I try Wilderlands I can make them all on same team (even with the monsters)
20090626 00:08:13< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: annoying, I want to make the player have to think more, not less
20090626 00:08:20< Aethaeryn> at least not less in the good sense
20090626 00:08:35< Aethaeryn> Crab_: even then, though, they'll run out of steam eventually
20090626 00:08:37< Rrenys> how would that make him think less
20090626 00:09:06< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: besides, it could work to player's advantage if they're on the defense
20090626 00:09:10< Aethaeryn> stone unit is safe unit
20090626 00:09:16< Aethaeryn> and blocked path
20090626 00:09:48< Rrenys> then you can stone only units far away the players keep!
20090626 00:10:00< Crab_> boucman: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m7cbb271d
20090626 00:10:02< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: on big maps, choke points are far away from the player's keep
20090626 00:10:16< Aethaeryn> I'm playing Wilderlands, and they're at either the edges or the middle
20090626 00:10:38< Rrenys> campaign maps rarely have choke points
20090626 00:10:41< Aethaeryn> anyway, it'd just annoy me
20090626 00:10:53< Aethaeryn> the whole point though is to make multiplayer like campaign a bit
20090626 00:11:01< Aethaeryn> in that, AI = real challenge.
20090626 00:11:21< Aethaeryn> perhaps allowing AI to recruit lvl 2s as well, since the player would inevitably level up some units in a large map
20090626 00:11:45< Crab_> Soliton: "Crab_: well, when you choose an AI how is that config part chosen?": atm, we have a config snippet (from scenario [side] tag, or from global config), and from it, we get ai_algorithm and a bunch of ai parameters.
20090626 00:12:40< Crab_> Soliton: and, atm, when we just play multiplayer without scenario [side] ai info, we just get ai_algorithm without any specific parameters.
20090626 00:12:49< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: but the stone idea is good, I just don't really want it. Makes it feel less like tactical Wesnoth and more like a special map.
20090626 00:13:08< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: If I wanted random scripted events to make the AI stronger, I'd play a survival.
20090626 00:14:10< Crab_> Soliton: so, I am going to change this to a system like "an ai description/config list is generated by parsing content of some directories"
20090626 00:15:00< Soliton> ok, i see.
20090626 00:15:10< boucman> Crab_: ok
20090626 00:15:33< boucman> I thought that we only needed a "starting point" like data/ai/* to know what to reload
20090626 00:15:44< boucman> the association side<=>isn't changed
20090626 00:15:51< boucman> but yes we would need an ID
20090626 00:16:35< Crab_> Soliton, boucman: so, if I want to allow hot-reloading of the ai without typing the path to its cfg, I need either 1) ID 2) origin info
20090626 00:17:13< Soliton> an ID seems like a good idea in any case.
20090626 00:17:29< boucman> Crab_: I tend to agree with Soliton
20090626 00:17:30< Crab_> this ID should be unique and optional (it is really needed only for hot-redeployment and for indirect selecting from scenarios/campaigns)
20090626 00:17:55< boucman> our current ID is not unique because it's only used for debug messages, but a unique id might come handy in future circumstances too
20090626 00:18:33< Crab_> boucman: ok, so, let it be a 'unique id'
20090626 00:19:20< boucman> ok, I need to run to bed, see you all later..
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20090626 00:45:09< zookeeper> Sapient, i have no idea what version this guy uses, but if it's anything recent, it's a pretty strange bug: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=363620#p363620
20090626 00:46:04< zookeeper> Sapient, the book pickup triggers when stepping on $bookX,$bookY, but those are both set to -1 at scenario start, not 1.
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20090626 01:01:09< Aethaeryn> imho, the only way Wilderlands would be balanced is more snow. The larger the maps, the stronger Drakes become.
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20090626 01:16:57-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 1.7.1 planned for June 28 | 67 bugs, 234 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090626 01:16:57-!- Topic set by wesbot [] [Thu Jun 25 18:09:13 2009]
20090626 01:16:57[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20090626 01:16:57[ [Relic]  ] [ BenUrban       ] [ dfranke   ] [ isaac      ] [ nickbp       ] [ Soliton] 
20090626 01:16:57[ ABCD     ] [ CIA-53         ] [ Doppp     ] [ Ivanovic   ] [ nital        ] [ Tigge  ] 
20090626 01:16:57[ Aethaeryn] [ cjhopman       ] [ Dragonking] [ lobby      ] [ noy          ] [ Turuk  ] 
20090626 01:16:57[ AI0867   ] [ cnmichael      ] [ erl       ] [ loonybot   ] [ Polarina     ] [ wesbot ] 
20090626 01:16:57[ Amu      ] [ corn__         ] [ Espreon   ] [ loonycyborg] [ Rhonda       ] [ yann   ] 
20090626 01:16:57[ AnMaster ] [ Crab_          ] [ esr       ] [ Mellar     ] [ Shadow_Master] 
20090626 01:16:57[ ardesh_  ] [ crimson_penguin] [ ettin     ] [ mjs-de     ] [ Smar         ] 
20090626 01:16:57-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 40 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 40 normal]
20090626 01:17:05-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20090626 02:50:04< CIA-53> cornmander * r36410 /website/stats.wesnoth.org/ (8 files in 6 dirs): 
20090626 02:50:04< CIA-53> Added date picker support on frontend (template). Still needs to be parsed from the GET and
20090626 02:50:04< CIA-53> translated to SQL.
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20090626 06:09:13-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.7.1 planned for June 28 | 68 bugs, 234 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090626 08:46:38< euschn> hi
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20090626 12:07:32< Ivanovic> zookeeper: since esr is currently busy and won't be able to have a look at this anytime soon, can you check this one, too? https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13792
20090626 12:12:49< CIA-53> zookeeper * r36411 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/scenarios/05_Invaders.cfg: Possible simple fix for bug #13792.
20090626 12:13:01< zookeeper> completely untested, but if i understood the report right, that might fix it.
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20090626 14:50:29< boucman> hey all
20090626 14:50:37< Soliton> hey you.
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20090626 16:09:49< boucman> grzywacz: around ?
20090626 16:12:11< grzywacz> boucman, yes
20090626 16:13:15< grzywacz> boucman, I messing with new hardware tho, so I'm may disappear :)
20090626 16:16:50< grzywacz> reboot time.....
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20090626 16:34:44< boucman> long reboots are never a good signe
20090626 16:34:47< boucman> :(
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20090626 17:05:17< grzywacz> boucman, quick, now ;)
20090626 17:05:38< boucman> i don't see your ghost problem, the animation seems nice and smooth here...
20090626 17:05:49< boucman> do you use a particular turbo speed ?
20090626 17:06:03< boucman> are you the one playing the ghost or is it your oponent ?
20090626 17:07:24< grzywacz> boucman, the animation is ok. the problem is with the fact that it's only the animation that's playing after a kill
20090626 17:07:25< grzywacz> one minute
20090626 17:07:37< boucman> not sure what you mean...
20090626 17:09:36< grzywacz> try scrolling the screen or doing anything with the interface just after ghost scores a kill
20090626 17:10:28< boucman> ok
20090626 17:13:14< grzywacz> and notice how XP doesn't get updated right away
20090626 17:14:07< boucman> grzywacz: scrolling works fine for me...
20090626 17:15:16< boucman> ok, i see it with xp
20090626 17:15:34< grzywacz> I have no acceleration set.
20090626 17:15:41< boucman> yes, that's because we reuse the standing anim as a victory anim, so we have to wait for it to be finished to move on...
20090626 17:15:53< grzywacz> boucman, UGH! why do we do that?
20090626 17:16:01< grzywacz> It's not noticable.
20090626 17:16:10< grzywacz> (the animation is not noticably different)
20090626 17:16:17< boucman> because we have no victory anim for the ghost, and we need to play something
20090626 17:16:21< grzywacz> I guess that's what gives the laggy feeling.
20090626 17:16:30< grzywacz> Why do we need to play something?
20090626 17:16:34< grzywacz> Can't it just drop into standing?
20090626 17:17:44< boucman> "drop into standing" is "playing something"
20090626 17:18:15< boucman> there might be a way, but I need to look into the details
20090626 17:18:20< grzywacz> ok :)
20090626 17:18:42< boucman> but no promises, if it's too complicated to implement, I'll consider it's not worth it
20090626 17:18:52< grzywacz> sure
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20090626 17:39:08 * Soliton considers a non-laggy interface to be worth quite a bit. :->
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20090626 17:51:11< shadowmaster> why the hell does everyone feel the need to contact a DNS server within a tiny amount of time...
20090626 17:52:12< shadowmaster> and why the hell is my WLAN roaming if my laptop is sitting still on a room connected to a network with a pretty good signal intensity...
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20090626 18:09:13-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.7.1 planned for June 28 | 69 bugs, 234 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090626 18:13:08< boucman> ok, the fix seems to work but I'm a bit worried about regressions, testing a bit more
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20090626 18:26:18< CIA-53> boucman * r36412 /trunk/src/unit_animation.cpp: fix bug #13743 by disabling the creation of a catch all animation. We have a better handling of skip that way
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20090626 18:35:59< Soliton> is it conceivable that "x = ++x;" gives different results in practice? i mean it is by definition undefined but i can't really see how it could result in anything else but x+1.
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20090626 18:40:06< ardesh_> Soliton, ++x is a preincrement... so: if x=6 and u execute this line... the result will be 7
20090626 18:40:25< ardesh_> because u increment before u set x
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20090626 18:41:17< ardesh_> it seems to be the same as x++ but if u do more complex expressions the result may be completely different
20090626 18:42:23< Soliton> i didn't compare it to x++.
20090626 18:43:07< ardesh_> sure...
20090626 18:43:12< Soliton> of course with x++ things are different since the return value is not what x is set to.
20090626 18:43:29< ardesh_> but as i wrote.. if you use a post or pre increment in more complex expressions the results may vary
20090626 18:43:52< Soliton> i was not talking about more complex expressions either.
20090626 18:44:19< ardesh_> http://ccpluspluscsharp.blogspot.com/2008/09/difference-between-pre-increment-and.html
20090626 18:44:19< ardesh_> ^^
20090626 18:44:30< ardesh_> thats the difference
20090626 18:44:51< Soliton> there must be some communication barrier. nevermind.
20090626 18:45:03< ardesh_> maybe
20090626 18:45:26< Soliton> well, i can only repeat that i'm not comparing pre and post increment.
20090626 18:45:33< ardesh_> okay
20090626 18:45:52< ardesh_> u want to know if x=++x is always x+1?
20090626 18:45:56< grzywacz> …
20090626 18:46:21 * Sapient throws sugar packet at ardesh_ --------> #
20090626 18:46:35< ardesh_> lol ;)
20090626 18:46:44< boucman> Soliton: to answer your original question, there is some freedom in the way the optimizer/compiler handles cache, and yes, it can do something like x=x
20090626 18:48:56< grzywacz> boucman, how did you fix it?
20090626 18:49:08< grzywacz> boucman, or was it supposed to be a "won't fix"?
20090626 18:49:19< boucman> you mean the ghost thing ?
20090626 18:49:21< grzywacz> yes
20090626 18:50:10< boucman> well, the problem is that I ask the engine "gimme an anim for victory of a ghost" it would always succeed, returning the standing anim if no other was available
20090626 18:50:26< grzywacz> Can we define an empty anim?
20090626 18:50:35< boucman> now, it fails, and the engine leave the ghost "as is" (standing) 
20090626 18:50:35< grzywacz> And let it fall back into standing immediately?
20090626 18:50:37< boucman> afk tel
20090626 18:50:44< grzywacz> ok
20090626 18:51:29< Soliton> ardesh_: yes.
20090626 18:51:42< Soliton> boucman: ok.. seems difficult to imagine.
20090626 18:52:15 * shadowmaster actually wishes one of those kids flooded #wesnoth for real
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20090626 18:52:30< shadowmaster> wrong channel. again. twice this last minute
20090626 18:53:45< boucman> back
20090626 18:54:02< grzywacz> boucman, just saw your commit
20090626 18:54:22-!- elynia [n=shyde@wesnoth/umc-dev/misc/elynia] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090626 18:54:40< boucman> but by leaving the anim "as is", we don't take the ghost into account for calculating the end of the pair "death/victory"  which solves your pb
20090626 18:54:42< boucman> oh ok
20090626 18:55:00 * shadowmaster mass-ignores instead.
20090626 18:55:06< grzywacz> thanks for taking care of this
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20090626 19:07:44-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 1.7.1 planned for June 28 | 69 bugs, 234 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090626 19:07:44-!- Topic set by wesbot [] [Fri Jun 26 18:09:13 2009]
20090626 19:07:44[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20090626 19:07:44[ _jbx_   ] [ CIA-53         ] [ elynia  ] [ Ivanovic   ] [ nickbp      ] [ Soliton        ] 
20090626 19:07:44[ ABCD    ] [ cib0           ] [ erl     ] [ lobby      ] [ nital       ] [ stikonas       ] 
20090626 19:07:44[ AI0867  ] [ corn__         ] [ esr     ] [ loonybot   ] [ Polarina    ] [ thespaceinvader] 
20090626 19:07:44[ Amu     ] [ crimson_penguin] [ ettin   ] [ loonycyborg] [ Rhonda      ] [ Tigge          ] 
20090626 19:07:44[ AnMaster] [ dfranke        ] [ giusef  ] [ maxy       ] [ Sapient     ] [ Turuk          ] 
20090626 19:07:44[ ardesh_ ] [ Doppp          ] [ grzywacz] [ Mellar     ] [ shadowmaster] [ wesbot         ] 
20090626 19:07:44[ boucman ] [ Dragonking     ] [ ilor    ] [ mjs-de     ] [ Smar        ] [ yann           ] 
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20090626 19:07:57-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20090626 19:53:08< boucman> Ivanovic: i'll assign patch 1178 to you (it's a german translation update)
20090626 19:53:20< Ivanovic> boucman: have you read the stuff?
20090626 19:53:28< boucman> nope, will do
20090626 19:53:33< Ivanovic> basically it is already being handled, but not by me but the correct translator
20090626 19:53:36< boucman> ok
20090626 19:53:47< boucman> and the translator is not a dev, I guess
20090626 19:53:59< Ivanovic> jupp
20090626 19:54:17< boucman> if it's ok, i'll assign to you anyway, because you're the one who will know when it's done
20090626 19:54:50< Ivanovic> because i am the one commiting the update...
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20090626 19:59:37< boucman> Soliton: around ?
20090626 20:00:34< boucman> anybody for a UI/HMI question ?
20090626 20:03:19< Sapient> I'm somewhat around
20090626 20:03:43< boucman> what do you think of patch 1175 (the idea itself, not the code)
20090626 20:05:41< Sapient> I'm not sure that's the sort of thing we want an option for
20090626 20:05:48< Sapient> sounds like option overload
20090626 20:05:57< boucman> yes, I have that feeling too
20090626 20:06:14< boucman> however how about removing the "block on ally" entirely...
20090626 20:06:20< boucman> or is this feature really unwanted ?
20090626 20:06:36< Sapient> maybe a better idea would be only show it once per scenario
20090626 20:06:55< boucman> hmm
20090626 20:07:03< Sapient> I wouldn't be opposed to removing it entirely though
20090626 20:07:28< Sapient> but I am opposed to adding an option for it in preferences
20090626 20:07:41< boucman> Sapient: ok, i'll ask around for other opinions in case there is a strong case one way or another
20090626 20:08:05< Sapient> in a well written scenario, there would be a message for the ally discovery event, if it deserved notice
20090626 20:08:20< Sapient> so the built in alert is a bit redundant
20090626 20:08:20< boucman> point
20090626 20:09:08-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090626 20:10:02< Sapient> I think having it pop up once per scenario max would be better, personally; the message is slightly useful
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20090626 20:13:26< boucman> noy: same question to you
20090626 20:13:30< noy> ?
20090626 20:13:34< boucman> what do you think of patch 1175 (the idea itself, not the code)
20090626 20:13:35< noy> I just arrived
20090626 20:13:44< noy> can you link me please?
20090626 20:13:51< boucman> in the middle of a discussion that might interest you :)
20090626 20:13:59< boucman> zookeeper: you too, maybe
20090626 20:14:21< noy> can you link me to the fr/bugreport?
20090626 20:14:42< Sapient> wesbot: patch 1175
20090626 20:14:43< wesbot> Patch #1175  Assigned to: None  Status: None  Priority: 3 - Low
20090626 20:14:43< wesbot> Summary: Additional option in preferences preventing allies from interrupting move when sighted
20090626 20:14:46< wesbot> Original submission: I've written it because I got annoyed while playing 'The 
20090626 20:14:49< wesbot> Oldwood' level. The map was shrouded and I kept bumping into ents, my allies. It
20090626 20:14:52< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/patch/?1175
20090626 20:14:54< wesbot> Attached file (1st): https://gna.org/patch/download.php?file_id=5796
20090626 20:15:46< grzywacz> Anyone for 3vs3?
20090626 20:16:31< boucman> grzywacz: trunk ? (as usual, I'll observe :)
20090626 20:16:55< noy> boucman: I fear I don't entirely get this one
20090626 20:17:02< grzywacz> boucman, 1.6.x
20090626 20:17:13< zookeeper> hmh.
20090626 20:17:27< zookeeper> sometimes it'd be nice to be able to toggle that.
20090626 20:17:55< zookeeper> are there any other situations in the game when your move (any move, not just movement) can be interrupted by something?
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20090626 20:18:27< Sapient> power outage
20090626 20:18:37< boucman> hehe
20090626 20:18:45-!- elynia [n=shyde@wesnoth/umc-dev/misc/elynia] has quit [SendQ exceeded]
20090626 20:18:56< boucman> not that I see
20090626 20:19:03< boucman> except WML, of course
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20090626 20:19:36< boucman> hey Crab_
20090626 20:19:41< Crab_> hi boucman
20090626 20:21:06< zookeeper> basically i wouldn't mind such an option (obviously it'd go to the advanced preferences as to not confuse regular users), but i think it's both something that would be needed really rarely, and also i wonder how it'd interact with sighted events
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20090626 20:21:32< noy> boucman: I can't see it affecting mp at all, maybe some scenarios... but not many
20090626 20:22:09< Sapient> is there really a situation where you *want* to be bombarded over and over with ally sighted messages ?
20090626 20:22:22< noy> ALL THE TIME SAPIENT!
20090626 20:22:39< Sapient> um... lol :p
20090626 20:25:13< grzywacz> Soliton, we managed to recreate a situation when player is playing and shows as observer to others
20090626 20:25:22< grzywacz> Playing atm.
20090626 20:25:47< Sapient> adding an option is the coward's way sometimes when you need to just define the best behavior for the majority of users/situations and stick with it because there are no significant drawbacks to forgoing the alternatives
20090626 20:25:58< zookeeper> maybe you should just have vision sharing in oldwood...
20090626 20:26:06< zookeeper> dinner ->
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20090626 20:26:35< Sapient> and having a sea of options eventually becomes a problem in and of itself
20090626 20:26:57< Sapient> have fun, cya later
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20090626 20:44:40< noy> did anybody just get this email?
20090626 20:45:35< noy> I feel like writing a one liner with the patented noy/miyo reply; No. 
20090626 20:47:01< grzywacz> No.
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20090626 20:47:59< zookeeper> well, it's a fair question, so at least you should reply with something like "sorry, no" ;)
20090626 20:47:59-!- maxy [n=maxy@84-74-83-103.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit []
20090626 20:48:01 * crimson_penguin wasn't trusted by miyo
20090626 20:48:14< noy> zookeeper: hah. 
20090626 20:48:54 * stikonas summons silene
20090626 20:49:19< zookeeper> you can just say that the project can't override on behalf of the artist
20090626 20:49:45< zookeeper> so he should find out who the artist is and ask him directly
20090626 20:51:03< zookeeper> (and that if he wants to find the specific artists, he should post on the forums, not the mailing list)
20090626 20:51:09< Ivanovic> don't forget to use "answer all", he is not on the list
20090626 20:52:19< zookeeper> well, i could have also read his mail entirely, looks like he already asked whether he should ask the individual artists...
20090626 20:54:09< noy> zookeeper: I'm not going to tell him how to do his job. 
20090626 20:54:26< noy> I'll simply say that we can't he's welcome to ask individual artists. 
20090626 21:03:07< noy> aww... 
20090626 21:03:18< noy> I guess I won't be sending a reply
20090626 21:11:32< grzywacz> So I guess this is a won't fix per our last discussion? https://gna.org/bugs/?3779
20090626 21:12:47< noy> well I think zookeeper was saying there isn't a system in place to alter it anyway... which there should be.
20090626 21:13:07< grzywacz> Such as per scenario configuration?
20090626 21:13:09< noy> I disagree that in this specific case though it shouldn't be changed. 
20090626 21:13:19< noy> I mean I disagree that it should be changed.
20090626 21:13:22< noy> grzywacz: correct/ 
20090626 21:13:40< grzywacz> Maybe, erm, a game create option?
20090626 21:13:43< grzywacz> no.
20090626 21:13:47< grzywacz> That would be bad. ;)
20090626 21:13:53< noy> Hm?
20090626 21:14:09< grzywacz> Setting this per game. What's the point anyway? That would be a cosmetic change.
20090626 21:14:36< grzywacz> Maybe it would make more sense in multiplayer campaigns or something...
20090626 21:14:36< noy> no no, that its configurable for any scenario... 
20090626 21:14:43< noy> not for any game. 
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20090626 22:58:00< Soliton> grzywacz: i'd just show both in the game summary. team: won  you: lost
20090626 22:58:53< Soliton> boucman: i agree with Sapient that it might be better to just not have the ally sighted notification. i don't think i ever found it useful.
20090626 22:59:07< Soliton> or just once per scenario.
20090626 22:59:20< grzywacz> I feel the same.
20090626 22:59:38< grzywacz> Soliton, that double summary sounds interesting
20090626 22:59:42< boucman> ok, i'll wait for a few more opinion, but apparently it's more a nuisance than anything
20090626 23:00:14< Soliton> grzywacz: i think that's how it is in freim's mockup as well.
20090626 23:02:54< zookeeper> boucman, i wonder if there would be any simple way of having it WML-configurable...like having a sighted event in which you could cancel the stopping of the movement for that move or something. probably not.
20090626 23:03:09< boucman> hmm
20090626 23:03:13< boucman> interesting idea
20090626 23:03:42< boucman> but maybe a little hard for the guy that submited the patch
20090626 23:03:43< zookeeper> however, the best idea might be to simply remove the allied sighting notification _except_ if that also triggers a sighted event
20090626 23:03:53< boucman> hmm
20090626 23:04:02< boucman> i'm not sure that at that point we know that
20090626 23:04:04< zookeeper> since if you wanted the notification in your scenario, you could just write an empty sighted event
20090626 23:04:13< boucman> which is a real issue, we can't break that feature
20090626 23:04:42< Sapient> we're digressing a bit
20090626 23:05:01< Sapient> eventually there will need to be a "move" event
20090626 23:05:18< Sapient> and possibly a way of interrupting the movement
20090626 23:05:35< Sapient> sighted can use the same mechanism when it is put in place
20090626 23:05:50< Sapient> then print to the screen
20090626 23:06:26< Sapient> most likely, [allow_undo] will allow you to continue moving... otherwise not
20090626 23:06:59< Sapient> this is on the wiki/FutureWML page I think
20090626 23:08:11< MikeJB> Are there any new multiplayer campaigns?
20090626 23:09:33< Sapient> MikeJB: this channel is more for mainline development, so no
20090626 23:09:43< Sapient> try asking in #wesnoth
20090626 23:09:55< MikeJB> well, I guess I was wondering mainline-wise about multiplayer campaigns
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20090626 23:10:08< MikeJB> wishfull thinking since 1.6/1.7 have a few "new" campaigns
20090626 23:10:32< Turuk> Yeah, and they aren't that labor-intensive to make, I'm not sure why there wouldn't be more
20090626 23:10:46< MikeJB> are MP campaigns still as buggy as 1.4/1.5?
20090626 23:11:01< MikeJB> considering I haven't really been active since that branch
20090626 23:11:07< Sapient> Wesband looks pretty cool. most of the bugs have been worked out
20090626 23:12:08< Sapient> Elf War was in development but I think has been temporarily abandoned
20090626 23:12:23< MikeJB> what is the interface for MP campaigns?
20090626 23:12:34< MikeJB> i.e. how would a MP campaign be communicated if mainlined?
20090626 23:12:45< MikeJB> just like a scenario but with a description that it has multiple scenarios?
20090626 23:13:14< Sapient> just like a MP scenario, you mean'
20090626 23:13:18< MikeJB> yeah
20090626 23:13:27< MikeJB> iirc, that's how they used to be done
20090626 23:13:30< Sapient> probably
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20090626 23:13:41< MikeJB> but they were messy/hackish last time I looked at them
20090626 23:14:19< Sapient> like I said, most of the bugs have been worked out
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20090626 23:16:30< Soliton> world conquest and wesband are probably the best candidates.
20090626 23:17:18< MikeJB> also, what's with all of the people being on stable?
20090626 23:17:29< Sapient> I heard some good things about World Conquest; haven't tried it yet
20090626 23:17:43< grzywacz> MikeJB, I guess unstables doesn't have killer features yet ;)
20090626 23:17:46< MikeJB> back in 1.2/1.3 days, most newbies were on stable (proably 3 out of 4 scenarios were Survival Xtreme) and the serious players were on development
20090626 23:18:05< shadowmaster> because 1.4 was going to be that awesome, compared to 1.2
20090626 23:18:51< Sapient> MikeJB: I think the trend changed when the developers started announcing very loudly that dev releases would contain bugs and if you don't like it, stick to the stable
20090626 23:19:06< MikeJB> meh, bugs are part of the fun
20090626 23:19:14< MikeJB> more people playing = more people finding bugs
20090626 23:19:35< MikeJB> If you're serious enough to play unstable, you're probably not going to quit Wesnoth because of a bug
20090626 23:19:47-!- MikeJB is now known as Aethaeryn
20090626 23:19:50< Sapient> yeah, it gets annoying when the same bugs get reported over and over though, and people complaining about the instability of it all
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20090626 23:20:03< Sapient> thus the disclaimers
20090626 23:22:05< Sapient> I do wish there were a few more people testing the dev though... it's bitten us a few times
20090626 23:22:14< CIA-53> jetryl * r36413 /trunk/data/core/images/items/leather-pack.png: Added an item graphic to represent a leather backpack/pouch.
20090626 23:24:45< Sapient> jetryl: don't forget the credits and changelog entry ;)
20090626 23:26:01< shadowmaster> he doesn't read the logs
20090626 23:26:47-!- ardesh_ [n=ardesh@port-92-206-56-81.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090626 23:30:56< Turuk> esr: Around?
20090626 23:32:39-!- Sirp [n=me@wesnoth/developer/dave] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090626 23:35:58< grzywacz> Turuk, last time I heard there was still some turmoil in Iran, so probably no
20090626 23:37:22< Turuk> Uh-huh
20090626 23:37:53< loonycyborg> Yes. esr's probably too busy with fending off assasination attempts :P
20090626 23:38:34< Sapient> he is still using up the powers he gained during the solstice
20090626 23:39:44< Sirp> oh come now, now that Michael Jackson has died, haven't we forgotten all about this whole "Iran" thing??
20090626 23:40:01< boucman> Sirp: :/ too true
20090626 23:41:06 * Sapient sings "heal the world, make it a better place"
20090626 23:41:18< Sapient> he did have some nice songs now Sirp ;)
20090626 23:41:44< esr> Turuk: Here but not able to pay complete attention.  Not after that last dozen ninjas dropped through the skylight...
20090626 23:41:54< boucman> Sapient: you manage to find a song that covers both subjects ;)
20090626 23:42:07< Turuk> esr: I figured, so I put it into a PM and sent it to you for you to read when you have a moment
20090626 23:42:07< Sapient> lol, esr
20090626 23:42:14< esr> OK.
20090626 23:42:25< boucman> esr: this reminds me of an xkcd ;)
20090626 23:42:39< esr> Yes, I know which one, too.
20090626 23:42:46< boucman> i'm sure you do
20090626 23:42:48< Sapient> boucman: was thinking the same thing :D
20090626 23:43:04< shadowmaster> the one where RMS gets attacked by ninjas? :P
20090626 23:43:54< boucman> yup
20090626 23:45:14< esr> You know what was annoying about that strip? He gave RMs the sword, but *I'm* the trained swordsman. :-)  Grumpf.  RMS has other virtues but the ability to fight his waty out of a paper bg is nnot one of them...
20090626 23:46:01< esr> :-)
20090626 23:46:05< boucman> :)
20090626 23:47:28-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090626 23:48:50< esr> I'd like you all to know that I am presently hacking with a pistol on my hip.  Not that I think I need it in my own house but I need to adapt to carrying continuously; I might be wearing the sucker for a while.
20090626 23:49:22< esr> I wish this were silly.
20090626 23:52:54< Sapient> I guess 'random' maps on the MP server could be a good way of passing coded information in plain sight
20090626 23:53:02< esr> :-)
20090626 23:53:15-!- Rrenys [n=rrenys@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090626 23:54:08< esr> It's good for my morale when you guys are funny about this.  Thanks.
20090626 23:56:40< esr> Things are a bit quieter on NedaNet now, that's why I'm back here.  Might even do some Wesnoth work this weekend.
20090626 23:56:54< Sapient> well, just giving you an excuse to keep working on wesnoth some ;)
20090626 23:57:16< esr> Good way to take my mind off heavier things.
20090626 23:57:37< Sapient> I heard that game traffic is one of the few things not being censored by China's new firewall software
20090626 23:58:07< Sapient> they probably still monitor it though
20090626 23:58:51< esr> Teah.  Actually, we tell people to use game ports when they set up covert proxies for the Iranians.
20090626 23:59:40< Aethaeryn> Eh, Firewalls are not just China and Iran.
20090626 23:59:52< Sapient> because if you block access to WoW, you'll have some very angry orcs on your hands
--- Log closed Sat Jun 27 00:00:20 2009