--- Log opened Sat Jun 27 00:00:15 2009
--- Day changed Sat Jun 27 2009
20090627 00:00:15< Aethaeryn> Now, if I make an Ooze faction and someone loves it
20090627 00:00:20< Aethaeryn> it could have some sweet attack animation
20090627 00:00:25< Rrenys> does it consist of 1 unit
20090627 00:01:10< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: I'd have to make more. Damn, I think I actually did come up with an Abomination-idea where I worked out different roles in an Ooze-themed faction.
20090627 00:01:36< Rrenys> that doesnt sound like it would stay true to the True Ooze spirit
20090627 00:02:04< Aethaeryn> well, the idea was to absorb and swarm
20090627 00:02:13< Aethaeryn> but there would need to be some specialists, i.e. scout, poisoner, etc.
20090627 00:02:17< Rrenys> its not the same
20090627 00:02:29< Aethaeryn> well, I never executed the idea.
20090627 00:02:40< Aethaeryn> If I made a faction, odds are I'll only want to add one more lvl
20090627 00:02:51< Aethaeryn> for the leader, and for promotion of the lvl 1s you can recruit
20090627 00:03:05< Aethaeryn> lvl 2 = leader, lvl 1 = recruited, lvl 0 = plague'd
20090627 00:03:13< Rrenys> There is something... grand about populations being turned into a single ooze, parts of which dont have separate consciousness, all uniform, all the same sea of grey goo
20090627 00:03:35< Aethaeryn> lol
20090627 00:03:40< Aethaeryn> well, we'll see how it works in MP
20090627 00:03:53< Aethaeryn> one thing I can forsee is Drakes screwing them over royally
20090627 00:04:03< Aethaeryn> fire (movetype weak to this) + can retreat
20090627 00:04:25< Aethaeryn> in order to componsate for lack of good movement and any variety, the oozes would have to be cheap, 5 or 6 gold.
20090627 00:04:44< Rrenys> at times i also wonder why are there no mp eras where some factions only consist of 1 unit - not 1 recruitable unit, but the faction would only have 1 big unit, who eg generates more hp from village gold instead
20090627 00:05:01< Rrenys> drakes? are you one of the people who likes to balance everything by Default for no obvious reason
20090627 00:06:07< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: well, if I made a faction, it'd probably be played with Default
20090627 00:06:16< Aethaeryn> I'm very much a minimalist when I can be.
20090627 00:06:23< Rrenys> thats not minimalism
20090627 00:06:27< Aethaeryn> eh, I think it is
20090627 00:06:38< Aethaeryn> get it working/fun for Default, so you can play it as much as possible online
20090627 00:06:40< Rrenys> youd have way more factions/units than if you had eg 2 factions - peasants & ooze
20090627 00:07:00< Aethaeryn> yes, but peasants vs. ooze would take more work
20090627 00:07:08< Aethaeryn> could be interesting though
20090627 00:07:08< Rrenys> not much
20090627 00:07:17< Aethaeryn> the way I'd see a plague faction being balanced, though, is...
20090627 00:07:18< Rrenys> i mean, peasants dont have to be as cool
20090627 00:07:22< Rrenys> the uncool people would play them
20090627 00:07:23< Aethaeryn> if it's dying, make the units cheaper
20090627 00:07:43< Aethaeryn> swarming plaguing units
20090627 00:07:54< Rrenys> i dont understand?
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20090627 00:08:09< Rrenys> what is dying
20090627 00:09:27< pf2222> yay
20090627 00:09:32< pf2222> oops, wrong channel.
20090627 00:09:41< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: the units
20090627 00:09:52< Aethaeryn> if you're losing the game, cheaper plague
20090627 00:10:00< Rrenys> how do you know if the player is losing
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20090627 00:10:27< Rrenys> i suspect more plague units will die when the player is successful, instead
20090627 00:10:45< Aethaeryn> I don't mean fancy WML
20090627 00:10:55< Rrenys> i dont see what you mean at all
20090627 00:10:58< Aethaeryn> I mean, if in playtests you're dying too quickly
20090627 00:11:18< Aethaeryn> the best way to balance it would be to make the units cost less to recruit
20090627 00:11:27< Rrenys> ... is what youre saying, "if in playtests you're dying too quickly, lower unit costs!"?
20090627 00:11:28< Aethaeryn> therefore, you'd have more of them, and by sheer numbers be able to overwhelm the enemy
20090627 00:11:31< Aethaeryn> yes
20090627 00:11:39< Rrenys> ... how does it relate to plague
20090627 00:11:44< Rrenys> you could say that about any faction
20090627 00:11:50< Aethaeryn> it relates to a faction where you only have one unit
20090627 00:11:54< Aethaeryn> plague = expendables
20090627 00:12:03< Aethaeryn> have you ever played UD just for the corpses?
20090627 00:12:15< Rrenys> no
20090627 00:12:28< Rrenys> any reasonable player would kill them all fast ofc
20090627 00:12:29< Aethaeryn> the more corpses, the better. Strength doesn't matter. They'll kill a few, but there's just too many
20090627 00:12:33< Aethaeryn> yes
20090627 00:12:44< Aethaeryn> which is why I played against AI just to see the different corpse types
20090627 00:12:57< Aethaeryn> though, if goblin spam works, I'd suspect corpse spam would work... better
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20090627 00:13:13< Rrenys> i thought you meant wc only
20090627 00:13:21< Aethaeryn> nah
20090627 00:13:48< Aethaeryn> wc + DA = best
20090627 00:13:55< Rrenys> but that isnt wc only
20090627 00:14:10< Rrenys> i could just as well recruit all kinds of undead, thats best-er
20090627 00:14:18< Aethaeryn> eh, yeah, but not quite as fun
20090627 00:14:55< Aethaeryn> anyway, I might make a quick era that restricts Undead to DAs and WCs, making WCs a lot cheaper so that (1) WCs are recruited more than the DAs by far, and (2) there'd be a lot of them
20090627 00:15:09< Aethaeryn> just to have a human vs. zombies game, just for fun
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20090627 00:15:24< Aethaeryn> if that's fun, I might put the effort into an ooze faction
20090627 00:17:09< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: up for a game?
20090627 00:17:49< Rrenys> ok
20090627 00:17:55< Rrenys> what kind
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20090627 00:18:48< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: the kind I just said
20090627 00:19:17< Rrenys> you already made the factions?
20090627 00:19:23< Aethaeryn> where one person is a modified Undead, recruiting only WCs (made two or so gold cheaper to compensate for the lack of other units/scouts) and Dark Adepts (kept same price to encourage only a few being used, since DAs alone would get screwed over)
20090627 00:19:27< pf2222> human vs. zombies
20090627 00:19:45< Aethaeryn> not already, but I could make it quickly, even though I'm a bit rusty in WML
20090627 00:20:22< pf2222> :o
20090627 00:20:43< Rrenys> i suppose you want to be the undead
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20090627 00:20:55< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: could make it a 2v2
20090627 00:20:59< Aethaeryn> in which case one team is the undead
20090627 00:21:09 * Rrenys dislikes 2v2
20090627 00:21:26 * Rrenys likes 1v1 & ffa
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20090627 00:22:36< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: well, we could also do it on auction x...
20090627 00:23:15< Rrenys> ok
20090627 00:24:49< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: actually, auction x might be the best mainline map for this...
20090627 00:25:15< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: and you can be the UD if you want.... if you think you could be the best
20090627 00:25:27< Rrenys> nah
20090627 00:25:35< Rrenys> i like to... be turned to zombies
20090627 00:26:52< Aethaeryn> ok
20090627 00:27:14< Aethaeryn> actually, I'm not sure if I can modify the price point
20090627 00:27:24< Rrenys> why
20090627 00:27:32< Aethaeryn> it would "break" the WML, requring everyone to download an era
20090627 00:27:33< Rrenys> that was the only point worth modyfying?
20090627 00:27:38< Aethaeryn> thus requiring me to upload it
20090627 00:27:51< Aethaeryn> it's a whole lot for nothing, considering raising gold could do the exact same effect
20090627 00:27:57< Rrenys> nop
20090627 00:28:03< Rrenys> adept price vs wc prixe
20090627 00:28:06< Aethaeryn> oh
20090627 00:28:08< Rrenys> c*
20090627 00:28:08< Aethaeryn> good point
20090627 00:28:21< Aethaeryn> too many adepts if WCs were what they are
20090627 00:29:15< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: they cost 8 now?
20090627 00:29:22< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: do you think 5 or 6 would be better?
20090627 00:29:45< Aethaeryn> obviously, for the first game it's a guess
20090627 00:29:52< Aethaeryn> too many, up the gold. too few, lower it
20090627 00:29:58< Rrenys> 5 sounds nicer
20090627 00:30:18< Rrenys> Five is conjectured to be the only odd untouchable number and if this is the case then five will be the only odd prime number that is not the base of an aliquot tree.
20090627 00:30:33< Aethaeryn> yes
20090627 00:30:50< Aethaeryn> and occult people are all into fancy numbers stuff, so it'd make sense that they'd price it at 5
20090627 00:31:02< Aethaeryn> now, onto the factions
20090627 00:31:18< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: do you think the factions should be limited a bit? i.e. remove Drakes or another?
20090627 00:31:42< Rrenys> i thought you were making this just loyalists vs new_ud?
20090627 00:33:14< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: I'm wondering if you want it limited to humans vs. zombies or whether it should just be Undead replaced as zombies-only faction
20090627 00:34:32< Rrenys> do you mean loyalists with humans?
20090627 00:35:07< Rrenys> there is not that much difference, its not like many people will play it after this 1 match
20090627 00:36:55< Aethaeryn> I'll try it with all factions but UNdead
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20090627 00:46:28< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: it appears to be working now
20090627 00:46:44< Rrenys> host then
20090627 00:46:57< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: you'll need to have the addon, probably
20090627 00:46:58< pf2222> DUEEGO!.
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20090627 00:47:08< Aethaeryn> since it does add new datafiles, in specifically, the 5g walking corpse
20090627 00:47:24< Aethaeryn> or, as I put it, Zombie_OMFG.cfg
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20090627 00:47:48< Rrenys> did you upload it?
20090627 00:48:08< Aethaeryn> will get right on it, assuming the cfg file hasn't changed since I last uploaded something
20090627 00:48:12< Aethaeryn> (1.4 days)
20090627 00:48:23< Rrenys> you can just rapidshare it too
20090627 00:48:33< Aethaeryn> rapidshare?
20090627 00:49:38< Aethaeryn> eh, I'll upload it so we can do that Auction X thing
20090627 00:49:53< Aethaeryn> Auction X was made for zombie invasions, whether the designer knew it or not
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20090627 00:53:52< Aethaeryn> damn, the wml did change
20090627 00:53:59< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: just a few more minutes...
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20090627 00:57:08< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: there, Era of Zombies, listed as faction
20090627 00:57:17< Aethaeryn> 1.6
20090627 00:58:39< Rrenys> "mp faction"?
20090627 00:58:49< Rrenys> how does such addon differ from era
20090627 00:58:53< Aethaeryn> idk
20090627 00:59:00< Aethaeryn> I put it as faction because it's not a true era
20090627 00:59:15< Aethaeryn> I wouldn't want people downloading it expecting months of hard work and awesome sprites
20090627 00:59:24< Aethaeryn> when it really was a half hour that could've been less if I had been doing WML recently
20090627 00:59:33< zookeeper> presumably such an add-on just adds a new era which is just a copy of some other era, usually default, with an added faction
20090627 00:59:46< Aethaeryn> zookeeper: exactly what Era of Zombies is
20090627 01:00:27< zookeeper> although it'd make slightly more sense to list it as an era with an appropriate name, like "Default+Zombies Era" or something.
20090627 01:00:33< Aethaeryn> eh, yes
20090627 01:00:41< Aethaeryn> remember, I did this in 30 minutes
20090627 01:00:51< Aethaeryn> I'll rename it once I upload a new version
20090627 01:00:58< Aethaeryn> zookeeper: want to play?
20090627 01:01:20< Aethaeryn> the concept is simple, restrict Undead to DAs and WCs, and incentivize the use of WCs by making them worth 5g (also makes up for lack of scout, etc.)
20090627 01:01:39< Aethaeryn> doing it on Auction X atm
20090627 01:04:30< zookeeper> no, i'm going to bed
20090627 01:04:48 * Aethaeryn pokes shadowmaster 
20090627 01:04:49< Aethaeryn> want to play?
20090627 01:05:27< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: perhaps leave the game and talk to people in the lobby if anyone is online?
20090627 01:05:36< Aethaeryn> I'll give it a few more minutes before just doing a 1v1
20090627 01:05:51< Rrenys> im not good at recruiting.
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20090627 01:06:24< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: well, I'll try it, and then reform the game
20090627 01:06:43< Rrenys> ok
20090627 01:08:30< Aethaeryn> "anyone up for Zombies?" "me" "Killing lots of Zombies = fun, right?" "absolutely" XD
20090627 01:08:36< Aethaeryn> greatest line to meet new people and plug the new add-on
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20090627 01:10:31< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: rejoin please and hopefully we'll have picked up a few more people
20090627 01:10:37< Aethaeryn> new title, too
20090627 01:19:06< Aethaeryn> 1 more spot....
20090627 01:20:31< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: want to play as two sides?
20090627 01:21:12< Rrenys> nop
20090627 01:22:46< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: what's the key for chat?
20090627 01:22:49< Aethaeryn> I seem to have forgotten it
20090627 01:23:15< Rrenys> m
20090627 01:23:15< Aethaeryn> and pressing random keys is never a good thing to do in a game with lots of hotkeys
20090627 01:23:19< Aethaeryn> oh, okay
20090627 01:23:22< Aethaeryn> thanks
20090627 01:23:23< Rrenys> : for commands
20090627 01:23:39< Aethaeryn> I was triyng to do :
20090627 01:23:40< Aethaeryn> :P
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20090627 04:31:27< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: up for some other kind of game?
20090627 04:34:10< Aethaeryn> I already have 20 downloads for the add-on
20090627 04:34:13< Aethaeryn> the one that took 30 min to make
20090627 04:34:25< Aethaeryn> I think it's the art that makes them download it :P
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20090627 04:36:08< Rrenys> nop
20090627 04:36:17< Aethaeryn> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
20090627 04:36:38< Aethaeryn> in my absence of Wesnoth, Bob the Mighty did exactly what I wanted to one day make - the galactic empires add-on
20090627 04:36:43< Aethaeryn> (well, not exactly, but that concept)
20090627 04:37:33< Rrenys> there are even bigger space mods out there
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20090627 04:37:40< Rrenys> *dum dum dum*
20090627 04:37:44< Aethaeryn> eh
20090627 04:37:57< Aethaeryn> well, not quite what I wanted to make
20090627 04:38:01< Aethaeryn> but somewhat similar
20090627 04:38:06< Aethaeryn> more like, another one of Bob's add-ons
20090627 04:38:08< Aethaeryn> The High Seas
20090627 04:38:09< Aethaeryn> except in space
20090627 04:38:23< Aethaeryn> I wanted to make that with Thunderstone, the futuristic mod I am going to resurrect soon
20090627 04:38:49< Rrenys> it has incredibly silly name, & i dont think anything good will come of it.
20090627 04:38:59< Aethaeryn> ?
20090627 04:39:02< Aethaeryn> what does?
20090627 04:39:10< Rrenys> -_-
20090627 04:39:18< Rrenys> Thunderstone
20090627 04:40:59< Aethaeryn> eh, esr helped me come up with it
20090627 04:41:05< Rrenys> i know
20090627 04:41:14< Rrenys> i was there
20090627 04:41:16< Aethaeryn> like esr or hate him, he knows his fantasy
20090627 04:41:31< Rrenys> what exactly does he know
20090627 04:41:34< Aethaeryn> anyway, I wasn't going to make Thunderstone not really space-based
20090627 04:41:39< Aethaeryn> but I did want some space-based levels
20090627 04:41:42< Rrenys> i know
20090627 04:41:44< Aethaeryn> back when Spacenoth (dead) was the only space mod
20090627 04:41:50< Aethaeryn> now it'll be a million times inferior and less origional
20090627 04:41:51 * Aethaeryn signs
20090627 04:41:53< Aethaeryn> *sighs
20090627 04:41:59< Aethaeryn> damn, I'm typoing left and right
20090627 04:42:02 * Rrenys signs his public key
20090627 04:42:02< Aethaeryn> I normally don't 
20090627 04:42:29< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: why don't you think Thunderstone will be good?
20090627 04:42:58< Rrenys> game mechanics arent original; you dont have any artists; the name is REALLY REALLY silly
20090627 04:43:07< Rrenys> that & hiatus
20090627 04:44:10< Aethaeryn> eh, Wesnoth isn't that serious of a name either
20090627 04:44:30< Rrenys> it is better
20090627 04:44:46< Aethaeryn> Thunderstone isn't so much about mechanics as being an era, and having an established canon with campaign tie-ins, etc.
20090627 04:45:03< Aethaeryn> I'd compare it more to Orbvium (or whatever IE's world is) than a space mod that depends on game mechanics
20090627 04:45:07< Rrenys> so it could just as well be forum posts only?
20090627 04:45:17< Rrenys> hm
20090627 04:45:27< Aethaeryn> nah, Thunderstone is supposed to play similar to traditional Wesnoth
20090627 04:45:33< Rrenys> exactly
20090627 04:45:35< Aethaeryn> it's the unit themes and settings that are different
20090627 04:46:02< Aethaeryn> unit themes = future; settings = new sets of terrains, including some space-based
20090627 04:46:08< Rrenys> i know.
20090627 04:46:18< Aethaeryn> besides, it doesn't matter if it takes off or not
20090627 04:46:33< Aethaeryn> I wouldn't care if no one except me played it, as long as I were to "complete" it
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20090627 04:46:54< Rrenys> but you wont complete it alone
20090627 04:47:00< Rrenys> as said, you dont have artwork
20090627 04:47:26< Aethaeryn> I'll make the art myself
20090627 04:47:45< Aethaeryn> it might be significantly slower than if an established/currently-good artist were to do it, but I am a determined person
20090627 04:47:56< Aethaeryn> if it takes me 10 years to pixel-by-pixel make everything look good, I'll do it
20090627 04:48:20< Rrenys> nah, youll get bored & find something else
20090627 04:48:21< Aethaeryn> and maybe for the 2.3 development branch I'll release it.
20090627 04:48:33< Aethaeryn> eh, idk
20090627 04:48:41< Aethaeryn> Thunderstone is kind of the fulfillment of my content-making
20090627 04:48:46< Rrenys> nobody has the patience to work on something like _that_ for 10 years.
20090627 04:48:55< Aethaeryn> story, campaigns, custom factions, multiplayer content
20090627 04:49:08< Aethaeryn> all the stuff I've worked on a bit, completely done in this.
20090627 04:49:44< Aethaeryn> I wouldn't have to work on any other content; giving up maintence on my other (not *that* great) add-ons kind of frees me to work on Thunderstone
20090627 04:49:44< Rrenys> if i were to work on some 1 project of my own 10 years, it would be standalone, not some mod to another game
20090627 04:49:53< Rrenys> but i cannot imagine what such would be.
20090627 04:50:11< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: if you look at some mods for some games, they might as well be another game
20090627 04:50:18< Aethaeryn> actually, that happens quite frequently.
20090627 04:50:21< Rrenys> yes
20090627 04:50:24< Aethaeryn> you don't ahve to worry about the engine at all
20090627 04:50:29< Rrenys> uh
20090627 04:50:35< Aethaeryn> at least, not as much
20090627 04:50:46< Rrenys> name me mods that have become another game, without any engine modification
20090627 04:51:18< Aethaeryn> besides, it'd take me 20 years to make my own game, so if it takes me 10 years to make an ambitious mod and in the process I'll have learned everything to make a game in 5 :P
20090627 04:51:28< Rrenys> it wouldnt
20090627 04:51:41< Rrenys> it takes roughly 1 month to make a simple tbs in java
20090627 04:51:55< Rrenys> half a month for a pacman
20090627 04:52:01< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: Wesnoth is extremely flexible and only gets more and more flexible. In the case that I'd have to make some engine modification, though, it's open source.
20090627 04:52:26< Aethaeryn> Yes, it would take an *extremely* long time to make even the era side of Thunderstone due to the art, it will be a valuable modding learning experience. Kind of a side project.
20090627 04:52:34< Rrenys> you would have to force the mainline wesnoth accept your engine modifications
20090627 04:52:37< Aethaeryn> As long as I don't "get bored" I will be able to take as long as necessary to do it.
20090627 04:52:47< Rrenys> which complicates things a lot
20090627 04:53:00< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: I'm pretty sure if the engine modifications were simply to make WML more flexible, it wouldn't be *as* complicated.
20090627 04:53:10< Aethaeryn> I know which areas to stray away from completely.
20090627 04:53:29< Rrenys> wml
20090627 04:53:34< Aethaeryn> But I don't think you quite understand my personality-type.
20090627 04:53:49< Aethaeryn> All I need is someone like you saying I can't do it once a month and that'll keep me motivated.
20090627 04:54:17< Rrenys> wml being changed, and at times things being deprecated, also means that having a massive & complex wml-only mod will be a massiv & complex pain to update with newer versions of the engine being released regularly
20090627 04:54:20< Aethaeryn> In fact, I wasn't going to really touch Thunderstone until the winter, after I got some spriting practice and made a campaign (probably Drake), but now I'm extremely tempted to dust it off now.
20090627 04:54:29< Rrenys> shadow_master should know
20090627 04:54:44< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: and see, I don't do Thunderstone by myself
20090627 04:54:51< Aethaeryn> one of the factions is Shadow_Master's.
20090627 04:55:05< Rrenys> i know
20090627 04:55:07< Aethaeryn> One of the advantages Thunderstone has is that it is kind of a bridge into a semi-established canon
20090627 04:55:21< Aethaeryn> It has links to IftU's (planned?) sequels.
20090627 04:55:38< Aethaeryn> Thunderstone is the direct result of a post-UtBS and -IftU world.
20090627 04:55:40< Rrenys> isnt s_m retired, kind of?
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20090627 04:55:52< Rrenys> his forum title was iirc retired developer
20090627 04:56:26< Aethaeryn> eh, Wesnoth has a magnetism that content-makers can't run from forever
20090627 04:56:32 * Rrenys was not a fan of utbs setting much
20090627 04:56:43< Aethaeryn> I'll bet that shadowmaster's trilogy will be done before Thunderstone's campaigns, anyway :P
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20090627 04:57:59< Rrenys> i never played through the first campaign, dont remember what was the reason
20090627 04:58:15< Aethaeryn> I didn't complete the first campaign, got through about half way
20090627 04:58:24< Aethaeryn> I think he was either unfinished at the time I did it or I encountered a bug
20090627 04:58:34< Aethaeryn> or, more likely, he released a major revision and I didn't want to redo the whole long campaign
20090627 04:58:56< Aethaeryn> I did kind of like it though
20090627 04:59:01< Aethaeryn> more so than UtBS
20090627 04:59:16< Aethaeryn> though my favorite campaigns were always the short but good ones - SoF, DiD, Liberty, etc.
20090627 04:59:23< Aethaeryn> the ones I actually got to see the end of :P
20090627 04:59:41< Aethaeryn> I've played all the mainline campaigns, didn't finish all of them
20090627 05:00:45< Rrenys> 6 am, off to sleep
20090627 05:00:58< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: but, in summation, Thunderstone is kind of my overarching goal in umc
20090627 05:01:01< Aethaeryn> I may never complete it
20090627 05:01:06< Aethaeryn> but it gives me something organized to do
20090627 05:01:09< Aethaeryn> Rrenys: 'night
20090627 05:01:31< Aethaeryn> (I stayed up similarly late in the timezone the other night to update my OS, so I understand the whole 6am, off to sleep thing :P)
20090627 05:01:41< Rrenys> no you dont
20090627 05:01:46< Rrenys> its for a reason
20090627 05:01:50< Aethaeryn> eh?
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20090627 05:02:19< Aethaeryn> If I went on IRC for help about my "yum update" probablem I could've "yum update"d once and gone to sleep with my computer up
20090627 05:02:33< Rrenys> that im temporarily used to staying up so late, because i didnt sleep yesterday till 7
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20090627 05:02:50< Aethaeryn> instead I manually updated every file in groups by name to issolate the problem...
20090627 05:02:55< Rrenys> because i was studying for an exam into which i ironically slept in & thus failed
20090627 05:02:59< Rrenys> night
20090627 05:03:02< Aethaeryn> wow
20090627 05:03:05< Aethaeryn> 'night
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20090627 07:24:23< Aethaeryn> Turuk: woah, a Lord of the Rings thread that didn't get locked?
20090627 07:24:29< Aethaeryn> Now I've seen everything.
20090627 07:24:39< Turuk> Only due to his claim that he can "secure acknowledgement"
20090627 07:24:50< Turuk> I'm not going to lie, I'm just interested in seeing how he will present his "proof"
20090627 07:25:07< Aethaeryn> eh, I'm interested in seeing how well done it is
20090627 07:25:12< Turuk> Don't worry, I already have my answer formulated, I just haven't posted it yet ;)
20090627 07:25:27< Aethaeryn> I caught a few LotR campaigns waaaaaay back in 1.2 days
20090627 07:25:42< Aethaeryn> Right before they were removed, I downloaded and played them, and they were both crap
20090627 07:25:57< Aethaeryn> Made by someone who never played a Wesnoth campaign, or at least didn't understand one
20090627 07:26:23< Aethaeryn> I'm highly skeptical on the quality of a LotR content, especially if it wasn't ever announced on the fourms
20090627 07:26:27< Aethaeryn> *forums
20090627 07:26:32< Aethaeryn> Damn, I'm typoing today.
20090627 07:27:51< Turuk> I also doubt it would ever get completed, his entire project idea is fairly intensive, and he slid in the minor detail that he knows nothing of WML and wants someone to code it all for him
20090627 07:28:56< Aethaeryn> Wow.
20090627 07:29:53< Aethaeryn> He did actually seem fairly polite/mature in his post though.
20090627 07:30:08< Aethaeryn> No smilies, no aimspeak or 1337sp33k
20090627 07:33:18< Turuk> Doesn't mean anything, just means he's not a teenage kid
20090627 07:35:43< Aethaeryn> Technically, I'm not 20 yet, so I could be called a "teenage kid" by some of the older folk.
20090627 07:35:52< Aethaeryn> It's all about mental maturity, not age number.
20090627 07:36:17< Turuk> Oh I know.  I doubt I'm as old as you think I might be
20090627 07:36:18< Aethaeryn> 25 year olds are just as capable of acting/writing like morons as 15 year olds.
20090627 07:37:04< Turuk> If not more so as they vehemently defend some uber important point to someone they have never met
20090627 07:38:33< Aethaeryn> Well, isn't that the definition of the Internet?
20090627 07:38:51< Aethaeryn> Where people can act like such jerks that they would literally have sparked a physical fight if it were real life?
20090627 07:39:30< Aethaeryn> It merely offers a glimpse of human nature: if not for the fear of retaliation, most people will act like assholes. Especially because of the anonimity factor.
20090627 07:40:14< orlok> yeah, that Anonymous guy is a real asshole
20090627 07:40:15< orlok> :)
20090627 07:42:12< Aethaeryn> Oh, I try to stay away from dark glipses of the human psyche expressed in certain areas of the Internet, if that's what you're referencing.
20090627 07:43:33< Aethaeryn> I do respect that certain Anonymous people could probably take out my computer, or know my entire life story.
20090627 07:43:59< Aethaeryn> I do not respect my old roommate, who reminds me of the type of people populating many web forums.
20090627 07:44:55< Aethaeryn> (Seriously, I could have gone my whole life without knowing what "vor" is, if that's how you spell it.)
20090627 07:50:20< Aethaeryn> Damn, I think I skipped about 8 stages in my life straight to the "bitter old man" phase.
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20090627 07:56:37< Aethaeryn> Turuk: I agree with your replies to the LotR thread.
20090627 07:57:12< Turuk> Thanks.  I've stated, twice now, our stance on copyright, and so he cannot claim to be misinformed
20090627 07:57:12< Aethaeryn> Why make an LotR campaign if you could just make an LotR-inspired campaign and not have to go through a LOT of extra effort?
20090627 07:57:36< Aethaeryn> Turuk: Just out of curiousity, is LotR the most "nuked" copyright violation?
20090627 07:58:31< Turuk> hmm
20090627 07:58:33< Turuk> probably
20090627 07:58:50< Turuk> What else do we get....
20090627 07:58:53< Turuk> Pokemon, Warhammer
20090627 07:59:24< Turuk> Various music copyright questions
20090627 07:59:45< Turuk> There was a Heroes of Might and Magic one a while back
20090627 07:59:51< Turuk> A couple Halo ones
20090627 07:59:55< Aethaeryn> Yes, I was going to mention Pokemon.
20090627 08:00:10< Aethaeryn> Halo doesn't make for a satisfying tactical experience.
20090627 08:00:15< Aethaeryn> It just doesn't translate well to strategy.
20090627 08:00:21< Turuk> Diablo, D&D, Forgotten Realms, Final Fantasy
20090627 08:00:37< Aethaeryn> Halo Wars is the only Ensemble Stuiods game I hated, and I feel ripped off for buying it just on the name of the studio...
20090627 08:01:14< Aethaeryn> Diablo makes sense, I guess. Similar graphics (maybe not in sprite style, but the fact that it's 2D RPG thing)
20090627 08:03:58< Aethaeryn> Turuk: What I don't understand about making something based off of someone else's universe is that it's very, very restrictive. The more faithful, the less creative you can get. And being based off of a game is even worse, because it means that the game still exists and is probably superior than anything you can make in Wesnoth!
20090627 08:04:35< Turuk> True, but they don't think about that.  It's easy, and so they don't have to think.  All the story, the units, everything is laid out for them, sometimes even the concept for the map design
20090627 08:04:38< Aethaeryn> No offense to Wesnoth's engine, but you can neither make Halo FPS nor Halo RTS...
20090627 08:04:40< Turuk> All they have to do is code it together
20090627 08:04:54< Aethaeryn> Heroes of Might and Magic makes sense though.
20090627 08:05:05< Aethaeryn> I never played the game, but iirc, it is similar to Wesnoth.
20090627 08:05:23< Aethaeryn> Oddly enough, HoMM and Pokemon are the two game ones I see the most logic in.
20090627 08:05:42< Turuk> Yup, but Pokemon varies a great deal in setting
20090627 08:06:16< Aethaeryn> Yes, but it would be fun to send armies of Charizards against Undead skeletons, and to recruit Pikachus as expendables to die in the most horrible way in the Wesnothverse
20090627 08:06:20< Aethaeryn> :P
20090627 08:06:50< Aethaeryn> I have thought about the similarities though and, according to Off-Topic, I'm not the only one
20090627 08:07:52< Aethaeryn> Turuk: One thing that I don't understand though, is posting before you have anything.
20090627 08:07:59< Turuk> Possibly, but I think that if you sit down, think long enough, it wouldn't be that hard to compare it to a number of things
20090627 08:08:05< Turuk> He's doing it because he knows he's in the wrong
20090627 08:08:20< Aethaeryn> I have seen it before though.
20090627 08:08:24-!- justinoperable [n=justin@76-232-206-93.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090627 08:08:25< Turuk> But he wants to explain that he may have a way around it, and so he's testing for a response
20090627 08:08:26< Turuk> Yup
20090627 08:08:30< Aethaeryn> The first post did seem like a thinly veiled "I need help" thread.
20090627 08:08:41< Aethaeryn> And "I need help" threads usually die after three posts.
20090627 08:08:49< Aethaeryn> Is there some rule against that that needs locking?
20090627 08:09:49< Aethaeryn> Maybe I want to do a total conversion mod to make rainbow terrains and pony units, but I'm not that good of an artist, or at WML, so I'll need someone to do all of the work. I'll go post it in hope that there's a team of 5 people willing to work on this.
20090627 08:10:25< Turuk> Eh, we try to dissuade those threads, but I don't lock them on sight because you never know who might want to help
20090627 08:10:43< Turuk> I thought Flameslash's Terrador thing would die, but DragonChampion picked it up and ran with it
20090627 08:11:16< Aethaeryn> I guess.
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20090627 09:30:26< Ivanovic> moin
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20090627 09:52:53< Woodmouse> Is it okay if I use macros from mainline campaigns in the campaign I'm making?
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20090627 09:53:13< Blueblaze> no
20090627 09:53:27< Woodmouse> :(
20090627 09:53:38< Woodmouse> Why not?
20090627 09:53:45< Blueblaze> Because they won't work?
20090627 09:53:56< Woodmouse> how so?
20090627 09:54:08< Ivanovic> if you copy the macros over: yes, it works
20090627 09:54:28< Blueblaze> Also, if the macro is not actually defined in the campaign but rather in Wesnoth's many macro files, it will work
20090627 09:54:29< Ivanovic> if it is okay: only is your campaign is licensed under the gpl (like the main game), too
20090627 09:54:48< Woodmouse> yay, so I can use them! :D
20090627 09:54:50< Ivanovic> though this is required anyway if you want to publish the campaign on the addon server
20090627 09:54:58< Woodmouse> yea
20090627 09:54:59< Blueblaze> Woodmouse: You can physically use them though, yes 
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20090627 10:02:34< Woodmouse> Is "Gg" the string of flat? I forgot
20090627 10:02:56< Woodmouse> or was it "Gr"?
20090627 10:08:15< Woodmouse> Eeek, the terrain won't show in the editor! :(
20090627 10:09:04< Woodmouse> http://pastebin.com/m4d7978aa
20090627 10:09:31< Woodmouse> I have that in terrain.cfg for now. I have the image in the directory, and like that, but... :(
20090627 10:10:15< Woodmouse> I also have this:
20090627 10:10:17< Woodmouse> http://pastebin.com/m15edfd03
20090627 10:10:20< Woodmouse> in main.cfg
20090627 10:10:34< Woodmouse> so what am I doing wrong?
20090627 10:11:47< Soliton> symbol_image=~campaigns/Dawn_of_Dark_Elves/images/terrain/dungeonfloor.png
20090627 10:11:57< Soliton> {campaigns/Dawn_of_Dark_Elves/utils/terrain.cfg}
20090627 10:16:30< Woodmouse> oh, I forgot the ~ of the other one!
20090627 10:20:49< Woodmouse> it still doesn't show in the editor. :(
20090627 10:21:13< Woodmouse> Do I need the.... weirdo file?
20090627 10:21:21< Woodmouse> I don't remember the file's name
20090627 10:21:39< Woodmouse> like, the one with all the terrain transistions
20090627 10:23:17< Soliton> you need to fix both lines.
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20090627 10:25:45< Woodmouse> oh?
20090627 10:25:53< Woodmouse> what's wrong wtih the other one?
20090627 10:26:28< Soliton> the path doesn't exist.
20090627 10:26:37< Woodmouse> :o ?
20090627 10:27:38< Woodmouse> how so? I mean, I have the file in that directory (or however it's spelled)
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20090627 10:28:07< Woodmouse> or do I need the @ instead of ~?
20090627 10:28:51< Soliton> you need the actual path.
20090627 10:29:13< Soliton> not add random symbols.
20090627 10:29:18< Woodmouse> ?
20090627 10:30:10< Woodmouse> you mean "~userdata/data/campaigsn/Dawn_of_Dark_Elves/images/terrain/dungeonfloor.png" ?
20090627 10:30:19< Woodmouse> *campaigns
20090627 10:30:58< Soliton> why are you adding the ~ symbol?
20090627 10:31:07< Woodmouse> dunno, I thought it's needed
20090627 10:31:22< Soliton> is it part of your path?
20090627 10:31:39< Woodmouse> no
20090627 10:32:34< Woodmouse> I'm testing with the userdata thingy and without the ~ now
20090627 10:32:56< Woodmouse> it's not showing in the editor. :(
20090627 10:33:08< Soliton> good.
20090627 10:34:23< Woodmouse> in the other campaign I have made earlier, which worked, but I just stopped making it has "../data/campaigns/..."
20090627 10:34:38< Woodmouse> with the campaign's name instead of ... though
20090627 10:34:44< Woodmouse> I'm just too lazy to type it xD
20090627 10:35:04< Soliton> .. is not allowed in paths.
20090627 10:35:17< Woodmouse> but it worked in there. :/
20090627 10:35:44< Soliton> because the first part was just cut off and then apparently it was correct.
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20090627 10:36:57< Woodmouse> hmm, so... what do I use instead? the whole path with "userdata" in it?
20090627 10:38:59< Soliton> no.
20090627 10:39:28< Woodmouse> :/
20090627 10:39:32< Soliton> the dir is not called userdata on any other OS.
20090627 10:39:49< Soliton> and you don't go outside it in your add-on anyway.
20090627 10:41:26< Woodmouse> oh
20090627 10:43:39< Woodmouse> so... hmmm... I only put the campaign's directory?
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20090627 10:46:04< zookeeper> it's path=%My Documents/Dawn_of_Dark_Elves
20090627 10:46:28< Woodmouse> :o
20090627 10:47:48< Woodmouse> But I have Wesnoth installed in E
20090627 10:47:59< Woodmouse> not C/program files
20090627 10:48:43< zookeeper> oh! i don't know then.
20090627 10:49:00< Woodmouse> :(
20090627 10:49:37< zookeeper> no one else does either, that's why no one else has ever made a working add-on.
20090627 10:51:00< Woodmouse> :/
20090627 10:58:04< Aethaeryn> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=26018
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20090627 17:43:08< Unnheulu> are umc's relating to wesnoth religion allowed?
20090627 17:47:23< Cimeries> Why would they not be allowed?
20090627 17:47:47< Unnheulu> NRIW
20090627 17:48:22< Cimeries> What does that mean? :P
20090627 17:48:43< Turuk> No religion in Wesnoth
20090627 17:48:59< Turuk> That affects mainline canon, users are free to do as they see fit in UMCs
20090627 17:49:07< Unnheulu> sure?
20090627 17:49:10< Unnheulu> ok, thanks
20090627 17:49:26< Unnheulu> I doubt I'm capable of making a campaign good enough for mainline anyway
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20090627 19:34:04< Woodmouse> hi
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20090627 19:34:20< pf2222> NUEEDO!
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20090627 19:45:18< Woodmouse> Should I now continue making the campaign or Swamp Dwarves? Making the campaign is nicer, but I should work on Swamp Dwarves.
20090627 19:46:27< pf2222> You could include the swamp dwarves in the campaign somewhere.
20090627 19:46:33< Cimeries> Flip a coin.
20090627 19:47:43< zookeeper> or skip both and play with a log instead.
20090627 19:47:54< Woodmouse> :/
20090627 19:48:20< zookeeper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0xsqV3zk1Y
20090627 19:48:41< Cimeries> It's log, it's log, it's big it's heavy, it's wood.
20090627 19:48:48< Cimeries> I remember that. :D
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20090627 21:50:59< VurtualRuler98> Rolls over your neighbor's dog.
20090627 21:51:57< Blueblaze> ?
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--- Log closed Sun Jun 28 00:00:43 2009