--- Log opened Fri Jul 03 00:00:02 2009
--- Day changed Fri Jul 03 2009
20090703 00:00:02< boucman> I guess the difference in win/loss in noise...
20090703 00:00:07< Crab_> that's without retreat phase and with just simple targeting.
20090703 00:01:26< Crab_> boucman: and this now works too - http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m72657d6a
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20090703 00:03:44< boucman> wohoo
20090703 00:03:49< boucman> no we're talking
20090703 00:03:50< boucman> :)
20090703 00:04:34< Crab_> :)
20090703 00:05:15< boucman> Crab_: btw, do you switch first player in your test runs ?
20090703 00:05:32< Crab_> boucman: yes. I've committed the 'latest' version of the test script.
20090703 00:06:41< boucman> ok, so that doesn't explain the discrepencey... (assuming it's not statistic noise)
20090703 00:07:50< Crab_> well, the two ais have the same 'combat analyzer' and the same village grabbing logic, so, on small maps, the differences from ai_default's better grouping are not so big.
20090703 00:09:06< Crab_> still, I expect default_ai_stable to have en edge. but, I see that it's rather small.
20090703 00:09:14-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 67 bugs, 235 feature requests, 12 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090703 00:09:21< boucman> ok, so it matches what you expect, good
20090703 00:11:33< Crab_> yes. and it'll be a lot easier to improve an rca-based ai - since it can be done 'in pieces'.
20090703 00:11:59< boucman> hehe we should look at velory's healer patch now :)
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20090703 00:13:53< Crab_> that patch is not that finished.  but, we can go on with our idea about 'candidate actions which score another candidate actions' - so , we can add a CA which will boost score by taking 'hp's healed' into account.
20090703 00:15:08< boucman> ok, so an evaluation on the hp healed by the move.. (healers, villages, non-moves)
20090703 00:15:15< boucman> and another to suggest the moves
20090703 00:15:25< Crab_> yes
20090703 00:15:43< boucman> ok, 
20090703 00:15:55< Crab_> to do this, a refactoring of the healing system in src/actions.cpp will be needed
20090703 00:15:56< boucman> (thought ther's no emergency... let's stay focus)
20090703 00:16:07< boucman> what is your next planned step ?
20090703 00:16:33< Crab_> persistence of the ai_composite (saving and loading of the configs)
20090703 00:16:42< boucman> ok
20090703 00:19:46< boucman> night all
20090703 00:19:50< Crab_> night
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20090703 00:39:59< corn> check this out
20090703 00:40:03< corn> http://cornmander.com/wesstats/version_date?startdate=2009%2F02%2F01&enddate=2009%2F03%2F01#
20090703 00:40:50< corn> right now the querying is not working 100%, you will only get interesting results for small date ranges
20090703 00:40:53< corn> under 3 months or so
20090703 00:41:19< Crab_> nice
20090703 00:41:34< corn> this is psuedo multiple y axes
20090703 00:41:42< corn> you can't overlay multiple datasets onto the same x axis right now
20090703 00:42:06< Crab_> what is on 'y' ? percentage of people using specific version  ?
20090703 00:42:22< corn> no, number of logs sent by that specific version on that particular day
20090703 00:42:31< Crab_> oh :)
20090703 00:42:58< corn> it is interesting because the spikes for each new version coincide with the release
20090703 00:43:02< corn> except they are delayed slightly
20090703 00:43:20< corn> ex. 1.5.9 came out on feb 2
20090703 00:43:26< corn> but the spike for it is on 2-15
20090703 00:43:57< corn> there should be a lot more results though, I think i will not use the smaller sample tables for this chart
20090703 00:45:23< corn> I should have your data set up soon
20090703 00:45:32< corn> probably after the evaluation though
20090703 00:45:36< corn> it's on my TODO :)
20090703 00:45:41< Crab_> that's GOOD :)
20090703 00:46:03< corn> dfranke: ping
20090703 00:46:10< dfranke> corn: pong
20090703 00:46:37< corn> I am going to start updating my wikipage so you can figure out what I have been up to
20090703 00:46:42< corn> I have done a really bad job of keeping you up to date
20090703 00:47:42< dfranke> corn: I've been following your commits, but yeah, we should get some kind of regular weekly meeting time set up.
20090703 00:48:03< corn> ok, sure
20090703 00:48:23< corn> hm, I think the bot that tracks svn commits is not in the channel right now
20090703 00:48:25< corn> I just made a commit
20090703 00:48:30< corn> oh well
20090703 00:48:41< Crab_> corn: CIA is watching you :)
20090703 00:48:51< corn> not now it isn't
20090703 00:49:36< corn> do either of you have ideas for charts? I can create new ones very quickly because the chart configuration is pulled from a database now
20090703 00:49:45< corn> very good idea from crab :)
20090703 00:50:12< Crab_> corn: what about 'kill maps' you're talked about ?
20090703 00:50:44< corn> I am going to start on that next week
20090703 00:50:51< corn> I still need to make a page for adding to the configuration db
20090703 00:51:10< corn> it's not so simple, since a pie chart requires different parameters than a line chart
20090703 00:51:54< corn> and then logins with permissions, so that not everyone can access the pages for deleting and adding views
20090703 00:52:02< corn> after that, it is the kill maps
20090703 00:52:42< corn> for that, I need a way to dump entire wesnoth maps into PNG files
20090703 00:53:12< corn> then change the logging code in the client to keep track of which tile a particular unit is killed on 
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20090703 00:54:13< Crab_> corn: I can do that 'change the logging code in the client to keep track of which tile a particular unit is killed on' part, if you want.
20090703 00:54:23< corn> nah, that's my job
20090703 00:54:34< Crab_> ok :)
20090703 00:55:36< corn> dfranke: I will update the wikipage tonight, we'll talk tomorrow
20090703 00:56:45< Crab_> night
20090703 00:56:49< corn> night
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20090703 01:02:05< dfranke> corn: k
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20090703 01:10:30< fendrin> hi
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20090703 01:20:26< ilor> night
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20090703 03:44:02< corn> anyone have good html/js experience? I want to save form state on clickthrough
20090703 03:44:29< corn> ex. a user navigates to http://cornmander.com/wesstats/version_date and selects some form options, and the new URL they are presented with is
20090703 03:44:37< corn> http://cornmander.com/wesstats/version_date?startdate=2009%2F03%2F01&enddate=2009%2F04%2F15
20090703 03:45:29< corn> I want the form choices (including the date selection) to be preset with those values from before the page reload
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20090703 03:46:25< MJ999> Use get method?
20090703 03:46:34< corn> that's server-side
20090703 03:46:48< corn> unless I am misunderstanding you
20090703 03:46:58< MJ999> <form method="get">
20090703 03:47:24< corn> yep, I am
20090703 03:47:40< corn> that gives me the stuff in the url string
20090703 03:47:49< corn> but I don't know how to use it again on the client (firefox)
20090703 03:50:32< MJ999> Oh, I see what you mean...you can use some fancy window.location parsing?
20090703 03:51:18< MJ999> Though it'd be a lot easier server-side.
20090703 03:51:25< corn> I was checking that out but it seems like a headache
20090703 03:51:34< corn> I think the easiest solution is to store it in a cookie
20090703 03:51:45< corn> and then read the cookie when the page reloads
20090703 03:53:37< MJ999> Is it a PHP script or what?
20090703 03:53:58< corn> python, it's more of a web application than a single script though :)
20090703 03:55:11< MJ999> Yes, but when your python script outputs the "Start date: <input..." it'd be easiest to add the value there.
20090703 03:55:43< corn> oh, I see what you mean
20090703 03:55:51< corn> good idea, that is the simplest solution for me
20090703 03:55:52< corn> thanks
20090703 03:56:36< MJ999> Same with the version/scenario/difficulty/campaign. You can add the selected parameter to make them store as well.
20090703 03:56:38< MJ999> np
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20090703 04:19:30< Jetrel> Broadcast question for anyone in the know:  How hard would it be on the code side to transition all of our village-flags to using the magenta colorset?
20090703 04:20:12< Jetrel> I'd (weakly) like to eliminate *all* non-magenta team-color sets, just for consistency's sake.
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20090703 05:04:00< Aethaeryn> Jetrel: horses question
20090703 05:04:05< Aethaeryn> Are they going to be redone?
20090703 05:04:12< Jetrel> Yes.
20090703 05:04:37< Aethaeryn> Damn. As my spriting skill gets passable, I really wanted to make a horse archer, but I suppose it's best if I just wait.
20090703 05:04:52< Jetrel> Aethaeryn:  you may have noticed I'd been sort of on a down-spell regarding heavy-lifting in wesnoth over the past several months.
20090703 05:05:32< Aethaeryn> I haven't really been checking Wesnoth since 1.4 branch, so the 1.6/1.7 stuff all seem new (mermen redones, etc.)
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20090703 05:06:18< Jetrel> Yeah, I've mostly been on a break, post 1.6
20090703 05:06:50< Aethaeryn> I have basically been dragged kicking and screaming into learning how to sprite, considering there are few alternatives for content creators other than being wholly dependent on someone else's vision/time.
20090703 05:07:05< Aethaeryn> (Or having rather ugly "borrowed" art.)
20090703 05:07:28< Jetrel> Aethaeryn: yes, that's unfortunately why I learned to draw, myself.
20090703 05:07:57< Aethaeryn> Jetrel: want to see my latest sprite?
20090703 05:08:01< Jetrel> Sure.
20090703 05:08:09< Aethaeryn> I do admit it's not that good...
20090703 05:08:20< Aethaeryn> but maybe you can give me some pointers, since this is my "best" sprite.
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20090703 05:11:01< Aethaeryn> Jetrel: http://wesnoth-umc-dev.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/wesnoth-umc-dev/trunk/Thunderstone/images/units/humans/shocktrooper.png?revision=4703
20090703 05:11:39< Aethaeryn> I know the shadow's a little messed up, but that's the least of my concerns.
20090703 05:12:18< Jetrel> Most immediate advice:
20090703 05:12:37< Jetrel> 1] Almost always, you'll want to do guns like that at a downward angle.
20090703 05:13:13< Jetrel> 1]  The angle should be around 33° below horizontal; basically 2-pixels across for every 1 pixel down.
20090703 05:13:42< Jetrel> It's a good angle to synch with the 'grain' of the cartesian plane.
20090703 05:14:11< Jetrel> 2] have a full range of luminosities/brightnesses.  Right now everything is dark, and this fellow presumable has shiny surfaces.
20090703 05:14:27< Jetrel> 2] although most of him should remain dark, he should have shiny highlights.
20090703 05:14:31< Aethaeryn> Yes, I tried to make this guy darker than the other Thunderstone sprites...
20090703 05:15:14< Aethaeryn> their (slightly outdated and far older drafts) can be seen: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/download/file.php?id=31642.png
20090703 05:15:22< Aethaeryn> I'm sure you can poes a lot more criticism on that
20090703 05:15:43< Aethaeryn> Spriting is something you have to learn by doing, so the earliest are the most hideous that I'll probably go back to replace last.
20090703 05:15:52< Jetrel> Most of it was covered on the forum, and you've got enough stuff to work with in my two critiques above.
20090703 05:16:08< Aethaeryn> hmm...
20090703 05:16:12< Aethaeryn> now, the hard question
20090703 05:16:39< Aethaeryn> I have hit a semi-block in terms of the human faction because I only have (placeholder) art for half the units... I have not started the vehicles yet.
20090703 05:16:50< Aethaeryn> As Wesnoth has no vehicles, I've found it difficult to get a draft out.
20090703 05:19:19< Aethaeryn> Jetrel: the gun thing makes sense though... the perspective is *not* right...
20090703 05:20:29< Jetrel> Vehicles are considerably easier to draw.  They're just geometric shapes.
20090703 05:20:48< Jetrel> You may want to practice shading purely geometric shapes like cubes before moving to vehicles.
20090703 05:21:03< Aethaeryn> Again, I can't get the angle right...
20090703 05:21:17< Jetrel> Angle of?  the gun?
20090703 05:21:19< Aethaeryn> And the size...
20090703 05:21:23< Aethaeryn> Of the tank I'm trying to make.
20090703 05:21:36< Aethaeryn> Any sketches have too much of a top-down view than the Wesnoth units.
20090703 05:22:19< Jetrel> Aethaeryn:  have you ever drawn a cube from the wesnoth perspective?
20090703 05:22:58< Aethaeryn> No.
20090703 05:23:27< Jetrel> Aethaeryn:  do that for me, right now, then.  I want you to finish the assignment before you go to sleep tonight. :)
20090703 05:23:50< Jetrel> This should be *very* simple;  I just need lines, not filled shapes and shading.
20090703 05:25:44< Jetrel> This is a mandatory step in learning perspective.
20090703 05:29:24< Aethaeryn> Alright.
20090703 05:29:32< Aethaeryn> brb, 10 minutes or so... Then I'll get started.
20090703 05:29:52< Jetrel> Awesome.  :)  Glad you're taking this on.
20090703 05:29:56< Aethaeryn> I will try not to sleep until I finish it, because I really need to get guns/vehicles right to complete Thunderstone.
20090703 05:30:25< Aethaeryn> http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Thunderstone_art <- Thunderstone is very ambitious, and it covers basically every aspect of Wesnoth art, including themes ideally.
20090703 05:30:32< Aethaeryn> And then, when I'm done, comes the animations. XD
20090703 05:31:04< Aethaeryn> At least I'll actually learn enough so I can help with mainline content when I'm done (and noy's Kalifa, I already promised to help him with that when I'm better).
20090703 05:39:05< Aethaeryn> back
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20090703 08:52:38< Crab_> hi
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20090703 09:09:51< MJ999> Good morning. :)
20090703 09:23:22< Crab_> MJ999: good morning :)
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20090703 09:54:11< euschn> hi
20090703 09:54:38< Ivanovic> moin
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20090703 14:17:52< boucman> hey all
20090703 14:18:00< Crab_> hi boucman
20090703 14:18:10< boucman> what's up ?
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20090703 14:21:23< Crab_> boucman: nothing new so far
20090703 14:27:19< stikonas> Ivanovic: do we really need distinguish these two strings in httt/units/Princess.cfg:4 and 126 with "female^" prefix in one of them?
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20090703 14:34:03< Ivanovic> stikonas: no idea, which strings do you mean?
20090703 14:34:57< stikonas> "female^Princess" and Princess""
20090703 14:35:05< Ivanovic> ah, princess and female princess you mean
20090703 14:35:07< Ivanovic> hmm
20090703 14:35:20< Ivanovic> the question is: which one to prefer, the one with female or the one without?
20090703 14:35:46< boucman> should replace with "female^princess" and "prince" maybe ?
20090703 14:36:23< stikonas> boucman: Li'sar is not Prince :)
20090703 14:38:15< Soliton> well, do we prefix female specific words with female^ usually?
20090703 14:38:34< Soliton> it seems unnecessary.
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20090703 14:39:42< stikonas> now one of them is prefixed while the other is not so it adds 1 unnecessary string
20090703 14:51:14< stikonas> Ivanovic: since "female^Battle Princess" is prefixed, for consistency you may use prefixed "female^Princess"
20090703 14:52:33< Ivanovic> done, though i won't "fix" this for branches/
20090703 14:52:41< Smar> I want male^princess...
20090703 14:53:20< Ivanovic> Smar: feel free to write a campaign with a gay prince who wears pink clothes and preferes being called princess
20090703 14:53:22< Ivanovic> ;)
20090703 14:53:34< Smar> I have no artistic sense, so can’t.
20090703 14:53:45< Smar> also, why gay? 
20090703 14:54:04< Ivanovic> this way it would be a princess though male
20090703 14:54:36< Smar> no, is about sexuality, not title
20090703 14:54:42< Smar> +gay
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20090703 15:27:07< Polarina> I think mascular strings should be marked with male^ so a translator could whether that string has a female counterpart or not.
20090703 15:30:11< Polarina> But like me, I've also suggested other methods to solve common translations problems that cannot be resolved through the current system, but apparently, nobody seems to grasp my ideas. :(
20090703 15:30:22 * Polarina goes to her corner now.
20090703 15:32:48< Polarina> The current translation system is pretty much simply based on English grammar rules, with almost no vitality for different grammar rules of other languages.
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20090703 15:56:24< testing_xyz> hi
20090703 15:56:55< testing_xyz> bladesman
20090703 15:58:36< testing_xyz> what is wrong with bladesman ?
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20090703 16:18:13< shadowmaster> testing_xyz: is that some user made content?
20090703 16:24:01< testing_xyz> yep
20090703 16:24:06< testing_xyz> prievil era
20090703 16:24:19< testing_xyz> *primeevil
20090703 16:26:05< corn> CIA hasn't been tracking commits over the past day
20090703 16:26:10< corn> anyone know why?
20090703 16:26:30-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.211] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090703 16:26:46< shadowmaster> you may ask in #cia probably, though I'll check if it works at my SF.Net repo first
20090703 16:28:45< corn> ok
20090703 16:28:46< shadowmaster> corn: works at SF.net
20090703 16:29:19< shadowmaster> it may be a gna-specific issue. I read Ivanovic saying yesterday that we wasn't getting the commit emails in time, and CIA also relies on those to report here.
20090703 16:35:11-!- Noyga [n=noyga@wesnoth/developer/noyga] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090703 16:36:32< shadowmaster> maybe the #gna guys need to be poked with a sharp and pointy spear about it
20090703 16:36:53< testing_xyz> i just learner from bugs.wesnoth.org that i have some kind of a virus 
20090703 16:38:09< shadowmaster> what do you mean? could you be a bit more specific?
20090703 16:39:18< testing_xyz> hmm 
20090703 16:39:20< testing_xyz> no
20090703 16:39:27< testing_xyz> sry
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20090703 16:41:09< testing_xyz> hmm
20090703 16:41:15< testing_xyz> i had a trojan horse
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20090703 17:01:43< Soliton> gna doesn't send out commit mails atm.
20090703 17:02:24< Soliton> testing_xyz: what was in it?
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20090703 17:20:10< boucman> back
20090703 17:28:01< fendrin> hi boucman
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20090703 17:28:43< boucman> hey
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20090703 17:31:25< fendrin> does wesnoth got a new sound system lately?
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20090703 17:31:46< Soliton> no.
20090703 17:36:19< fendrin> are the campaigns' pictures (in the choose campaign dialogue) in the process to become transparent?
20090703 17:37:05< fendrin> what format is to choose there?
20090703 17:56:36< shadowmaster> wesbot: seen Turuk
20090703 17:56:37< wesbot> shadowmaster: The person with the nick Turuk last spoke 2d 19h ago.  1d 2h ago was here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message:
20090703 17:56:49< shadowmaster> Turuk: how does it look, now ? http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=25664
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20090703 18:43:42< mordante> servus
20090703 18:47:30< ilor> hi mordante
20090703 18:47:36< mordante> hi ilor 
20090703 18:48:01< ilor> mordante: indeed no loop on *nix; but also it works a bit differently
20090703 18:48:22< ilor> also I've discovered that you define a textbox as a widget for one line of text
20090703 18:48:52< mordante> yup the textbox is for a single line, there's no multiline version yet
20090703 18:49:01< mordante> there's a multiline label for showing text
20090703 18:49:37< mordante> then that loop is probably related to some issues I had before in that area
20090703 18:49:49< mordante> not sure how or whether I fixed that :-/
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20090703 18:55:51< mordante> fendrin, still have questions about the new portrait format?
20090703 18:57:50< fendrin> hi mordante. yes I would like to know if I should exchange the campaign portrait that is used in the campaign choosing menu for LoW.
20090703 18:58:06< fendrin> It's not transparent.
20090703 19:00:11< boucman> Crab_: http://wesnoth.terraninfo.net/index.php?dim1=faction_me&latest_svn_only=yes <= the per-faction bias is suprisingly high..
20090703 19:00:25< mordante> fendrin, not per se, but having a larger (transparent) image might look better
20090703 19:00:49< fendrin> mordante: is there a limit in size or is larger always better?
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20090703 19:02:06< mordante> fendrin, yes the dialog is maximal 800x600 IIRC, just start Wesnoth fullscreen/maximized window and you'll see the maximum
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20090703 19:04:16< Crab_> boucman: You'll see almost the same without 'latest svn release only' flag.
20090703 19:04:28< fendrin> mordante: on a smaller screen it will be scaled down?
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20090703 19:04:54< mordante> fendrin, no, but I might add something for that when needed
20090703 19:05:10< Crab_> boucman: for ai_default and derived-from-ai_default ai matchups, 'northeners and undead > everyone else'
20090703 19:05:34< fendrin> mordante: Okay, let's see what kitty gave me.
20090703 19:05:37< boucman> northern is not a suprise, i'm less sure about undead and why knalgan wouldn't be higher
20090703 19:05:49< boucman> northern was meant to be easy for AI
20090703 19:06:02< boucman> and rebels have all sort of unmanaged powers (leadership, healing)
20090703 19:06:31 * mordante loves kitty's presents :-)
20090703 19:07:44< boucman> mordante: ??
20090703 19:08:07< mordante> "<fendrin> mordante: Okay, let's see what kitty gave me."
20090703 19:10:08< fendrin> mordante: I have transparent 400x400 images. I will try that one.
20090703 19:10:39< mordante> :-)
20090703 19:11:24< Crab_> boucman: I need to solve a problem with my testing script, and then i'll start to store/display some per-turn info, too.
20090703 19:11:34< boucman> ok
20090703 19:11:44< boucman> how do you think you are doing wrt your planning ?
20090703 19:12:44< fendrin> mordante: It makes the campaign info box having scroll borders.
20090703 19:13:03< mordante> then it's too high
20090703 19:13:21< Crab_> boucman: in general, I've done 'less-than-I-wanted-to' for formula_ai, but more-than-I-expected' wrt c++ ai refactoring.
20090703 19:13:23< mordante> but I think that dialog can benefit from a bit more tuning
20090703 19:13:46< boucman> yes more or less
20090703 19:13:52< mordante> the reason I limited the height to 600 is that if the dialog gets too high it looks ugly
20090703 19:14:03< ilor> mordante, I've two more questions. 1st how do I make the dialog fullscreen and/or make widgets occupy more space
20090703 19:14:03< fendrin> mordante: The image should stay in place, only the text should be scrollable.
20090703 19:14:05< mordante> but I would love to have more larger portraits used
20090703 19:14:44< mordante> fendrin, depends, I like the entire thing scrollable, the text is more important and I rather read that without scrolling
20090703 19:15:09< ilor> mordante: 2nd is can you give some hints as to how can I use the listbox for something more than text
20090703 19:15:52< mordante> fendrin, feel free to fiddle around with data/gui/default/window/campaign_dialog.cfg line 18 to make it fit
20090703 19:16:33< mordante> to make a dialog you can either force it's size or add enough widgets so it needs fullscreen
20090703 19:17:10< mordante> ilor, what do yo want to use in the listbox?
20090703 19:17:25< mordante> the toggle_panel is meant to allow several widgets in a listbox
20090703 19:17:49< shadowmaster> tt/stats f
20090703 19:18:53< ilor> mordante: basically the gamelist, so a moderately complex grid of widgets 
20090703 19:19:17< ilor> mordante: unsure yet how can I pass something more than a label text to the widgets in the listbox
20090703 19:20:33< mordante> the server list is an example which uses several widgets in a listbox
20090703 19:20:45< mordante> it uses labels but that's not required
20090703 19:21:40< mordante> the wml_message is another example (only not too proud of the c++ side)
20090703 19:22:49< shadowmaster> 4c3mode #main +D 1,0
20090703 19:23:04< mordante> gui/dialogs/wml_message.cpp:160 shows how to add the data to the listbox (the name of an image is also stored in the label variable)
20090703 19:23:09< shadowmaster> oh... wrong window. I'd better run home and get sleep. I'm seeing blurry
20090703 19:27:01< mordante> ilor, does this info help you?
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20090703 19:28:04< fendrin> mordante: I'll try that
20090703 19:29:04< ilor> mordante: all these examples seem to be restricted to setting label texts though
20090703 19:29:45< mordante> what do you need to set besides label texts?
20090703 19:29:58< ilor> mordante: image source for one
20090703 19:30:19< ilor> also controlling visibiliy / enabled status for widgets could be useful
20090703 19:30:55< mordante> <mordante>"(the name of an image is also stored in the label variable)"
20090703 19:31:05< ilor> mordante: ahh, missed that :)
20090703 19:31:32< mordante> visible and enabled aren't possible, but I can add that
20090703 19:31:42< mordante> only does WML need to control that or the engine?
20090703 19:32:22< ilor> the engine, when I have the game list box it'd be useful if I could hide some stuff for some of the games where it's not relevant
20090703 19:32:43< ilor> mordante: not sure what you mean by "engine" here ;)
20090703 19:33:17< ilor> IMO it's cleaner to hide an icon than replace it by some transparent image or whatever
20090703 19:33:24< mordante> engine == c++ side
20090703 19:33:55< ilor> also I'd like to hide the join/observe icons for all but the selected game
20090703 19:34:02< mordante> I agree hiding an image is better as replacing
20090703 19:35:04< mordante> also note there are three visibility states: http://www.wesnoth.org/devdocs/gui_2widgets_2widget_8hpp-source.html#l00081
20090703 19:35:04< ilor> there's also the case of the minimap where I need to feed it data somehow. The current code uses some caching tricks to avoid recalculating minimap images over and over
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20090703 19:37:23< mordante> gui/dialogs/wml_message.cpp starting at line 168 starts to modify a row just added, you can use the same way to modify the visibility status of the widget
20090703 19:37:57< mordante> my current minimap doesn't, but we can move the caching in the widget
20090703 19:39:18< ilor> mordante, ah, that options->generator_->get_item(i) line seems like the key here :)
20090703 19:39:54< ilor> seems like I could install handlers for buttons in the listbox this way
20090703 19:41:24< mordante> but maybe the caching of the maps should be in minimap.cpp, so all code can share the cache
20090703 19:41:40< ilor> would probably make sense
20090703 19:41:52< mordante> ilor, yes that's the key and the way to add the callbacks
20090703 19:42:04< ilor> just need to remember to limit the cache size ;)
20090703 19:42:19< mordante> obviously
20090703 19:43:21< ilor> mordante: regarding forcing dialog size, how do I do that?
20090703 19:45:36< mordante> ilor, http://paste.debian.net/40910/
20090703 19:45:53< ilor> mordante thanks
20090703 19:45:59< mordante> no problem
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20090703 20:19:22< ancestral> crimson_penguin: so my computer died, and it became to expensive to fix, so I got a new MBP for free. Yay. So my quest for building Wesnoth continues… but I just realized I don't have the dev tools installed :(
20090703 20:20:14< crimson_penguin> ancestral: Well install them!
20090703 20:20:16< crimson_penguin> They're free
20090703 20:20:28< ancestral> I know it's just going to take like 3 hours
20090703 20:20:56< boucman> ancestral: let me guess :  windows ?
20090703 20:20:58< corn> dfranke: ping
20090703 20:21:24< ancestral> boucman: nah, OS X baby
20090703 20:21:46< boucman> stillno apt-get builddep
20090703 20:21:48< boucman> :)
20090703 20:22:08< dfranke> corn: pong but I'll bbiab.
20090703 20:22:11< corn> dfranke: I updated the wikipage a few hours ago, we can talk about the SoC progress when you're ready
20090703 20:22:14< corn> ok
20090703 20:22:59< ancestral> Okay 31 minutes, that's not too bad…
20090703 20:24:31< crimson_penguin> boucman: Psh, at least it comes with the dev tools on a DVD, and all you have to do to install, it stick it in, open the installer, and basically click install
20090703 20:25:56< ancestral> Any DVD dev tools I have are already outdated
20090703 20:27:21< crimson_penguin> It takes a while just because it's huge
20090703 20:28:16< crimson_penguin> 1.3GB of documentation, 2.4GB of "platforms"; I'm not sure exactly what that is, but in it is MacOSX, iPhoneSimulator, and iPhoneOS
20090703 20:28:28< ancestral> Yep, my DVD has 3.1.2, and 3.1.3 came out
20090703 20:28:48< crimson_penguin> I only have 3.1.2 too
20090703 20:29:00< crimson_penguin> I wouldn't bother downloading an update for now
20090703 20:29:29< ancestral> 22 minutes to go, I might as well let it finish
20090703 20:29:47< crimson_penguin> Oh, sure
20090703 20:29:52< crimson_penguin> I guess I have slower internet ;)
20090703 20:30:01< crimson_penguin> only 40K/s down
20090703 20:30:07< ancestral> Eeek!
20090703 20:30:15< ancestral> I'm doing 575K/sec
20090703 20:30:34< crimson_penguin> Nice
20090703 20:30:49< crimson_penguin> Only 20K/s up
20090703 20:31:32< crimson_penguin> Takes me >3 hours to upload a Wesnoth build
20090703 20:31:46 * crimson_penguin remembers back in the day when Wesnoth was ~20mb
20090703 20:32:15< ancestral> That's horrible. I have upstream, rate of 896Kbps from my ISP
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20090703 20:33:34< silene> hi
20090703 20:33:38< crimson_penguin> This is KB though, not Kb
20090703 20:33:40< crimson_penguin> hi silene 
20090703 20:34:30< Polarina> crimson_penguin: Didn't you meant KiB?
20090703 20:35:07< crimson_penguin> I meant 1024 8-bit bytes :P
20090703 20:35:23< Polarina> crimson_penguin: Yes, then don't use KB.
20090703 20:35:40< crimson_penguin> What the hell is the i supposed to stand for?
20090703 20:35:47< ancestral> kibibytes
20090703 20:35:54< Polarina> crimson_penguin: What ancestral said.
20090703 20:35:54< ancestral> It has to do with 1000 != 1024
20090703 20:36:11< ancestral> There have been lawsuits over it
20090703 20:36:19< crimson_penguin> Heh
20090703 20:36:31< crimson_penguin> You're not gonna sue me over my claims about my internet speed are you?
20090703 20:36:43< Polarina> crimson_penguin: We can, although.
20090703 20:36:54< ancestral> It's mostly synonymous, and at small amounts and in casual conversation it's almost moot
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20090703 20:57:34< kitty_> hi
20090703 20:58:06< Ivanovic> hi kitty_
20090703 20:58:09< Ivanovic> how are things going?
20090703 20:58:28< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: i am glad that i "only" need half an hour to upload the tarball
20090703 20:58:37< Ivanovic> though this is IMO bad enough
20090703 20:58:40< kitty_> Ivanovic: stressfull, as always, but i started my WSAS stuff so I'm happy :)
20090703 20:58:46< mordante> hi kitty_ 
20090703 20:59:19< ilor> mordante: in a button's callback function is there a way to access the actual button the click happened on?
20090703 20:59:23< Crab_> boucman: take a look at http://wesnoth.terraninfo.net/?dim1=faction_me&dim2=faction_enemy&dim3=my_side . Especially at the Undead vs Loyalists matchup.
20090703 20:59:35< boucman> checking...
20090703 21:00:03< mordante> the callback function has a twidget* as parameter, which is the widget which the callback happened for
20090703 21:00:25< boucman> hmm
20090703 21:00:41< boucman> so being side 2 is an advantage for ai ?
20090703 21:00:41< Crab_> boucman: that's what happens if loyalists recruit first.
20090703 21:00:48< Crab_> of course. recruitment :)
20090703 21:00:59< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: Yeah, that's about how long it takes me to upload Frogatto builds, and those are rather frequent
20090703 21:01:08< boucman> not sure what you mean...
20090703 21:01:19< Crab_> boucman: side 1 loyalists pick some spearman, side 2 undead picks some skeletons :)
20090703 21:01:28< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: your change to wesnoth-optipng is no good...
20090703 21:01:36< Crab_> boucman: side 1 undead picks some skeletons, side 2 loyalists won't favor spearman.
20090703 21:01:53< Ivanovic> this is the error message: ./utils/wesnoth-optipng: line 38: [: missing `]'
20090703 21:01:56< boucman> Crab_: hopefully DK's stuff will help in that regard
20090703 21:02:02< Ivanovic> obviously on my quadcore box only one core is used
20090703 21:02:17< Crab_> boucman: yes. or, some hardcoded 'opening' candidate actions for 1st-turn recruitment.
20090703 21:02:37< boucman> with a formula, knowing oponent's faction...
20090703 21:03:03< Ivanovic> hmm, okay, without your change i still get an error
20090703 21:03:11< boucman> make sense
20090703 21:03:15< Ivanovic> this one that is: ./utils/wesnoth-optipng: line 38: [test: command not found
20090703 21:03:19< Crab_> boucman: yes, it should help. it'll make undead ai weaker, in comparison :)
20090703 21:03:49< boucman> Crab_: the word is "balanced ;P
20090703 21:04:12< Crab_> :)
20090703 21:04:48< mordante> fendrin, regarding LoW, the scenario where you can play with the AI, I started the scenario and get a question and have no real clue which AI I try to fiddle with and what the results of my descission is 
20090703 21:07:26< Crab_> boucman: a note about my next work plans: 1) ai configuration save/loads (working on it now) 2) implementation of that 'candidate actions which assign scores to another actions' candidate action evaluation loop. 
20090703 21:07:31< Crab_> 3) either switch to formula improvements or implementation of alternate power projection routine to help ai achieve better 'grouping' behavior - depends on what you say.
20090703 21:08:02< Soliton> Ivanovic: add a space before the ].
20090703 21:08:46< ilor> mordante: hey, that listbox_->generator_ thing is accessing a privat emembetr made possible for wml_message via a friend decl ;/
20090703 21:10:02< Soliton> friendly coding!
20090703 21:10:44< Ivanovic> Soliton: in front of which of the two?
20090703 21:11:12< Soliton> Ivanovic: everywhere.
20090703 21:11:16< fendrin> mordante: it's the attack depth 
20090703 21:12:55< Ivanovic> Soliton: thanks, works now
20090703 21:13:10< Soliton> no problem.
20090703 21:13:21< mordante> ilor, can you add a non const version of const tgrid* tlistbox::get_row_grid(const unsigned row) const;
20090703 21:14:37< ilor> mordante: ok
20090703 21:14:38< mordante> ilor, then you can use listbox->get_row_grid() instead of listbox->generator_->get_item()
20090703 21:14:50< mordante> which is less ugly
20090703 21:15:02 * mordante wonders why I didn't add the non const version before
20090703 21:15:37< mordante> fendrin, ah ok, but the description is a bit weird and I still don't know which AI I toggle
20090703 21:16:06< fendrin> mordante: you talk about the question about enemy ai or about the ai controller?
20090703 21:16:12< ilor> mordante: doc comment suggest that you thought modyfying the rows might cause problems ;)
20090703 21:17:10< mordante> ilor, true but some things can only be done by direct non const access, guess a bit to conservative
20090703 21:17:17< boucman> Crab_: probably switching to formuls, I guess
20090703 21:17:25< ilor> yeah, like setting callbacks
20090703 21:17:27< boucman> it depends on what DK might need though
20090703 21:17:38< mordante> (and a lot of things can be screwed up indeed, but this isn't the only place ;-) )
20090703 21:18:21< Crab_> well, DKs work on recruitment can be integrated already as a candidate action. so, all is ok, at least now.
20090703 21:18:31< mordante> yup and modifying visible state of items or other things that should be possible from the code, without jumping through silly hoops
20090703 21:18:46< mordante> fendrin, about the question at the beginning
20090703 21:18:56< boucman> ok, do you have a preference ?
20090703 21:20:52< Crab_> well, I will continue to hack some c++, trying to make ai_composite RCA better. But, I think that some fai work is needed, as well. It will make life easier for DK, too.
20090703 21:21:27< boucman> yeah providing good ai tools...
20090703 21:21:34< Crab_> since my fai plans involve writing a debugger.
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20090703 21:27:09< fendrin> mordante: switch the heavy ai
20090703 21:27:19< ilor> mordante: just realized there's no way of removing items from a listbox..
20090703 21:28:21< fendrin> mordante: the other option was for slow computers but wesnoth should handle that map size easily in 2009.
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20090703 21:29:25< fendrin> replace_map wml causes an infinite loop.
20090703 21:29:26< mordante> ilor, true :-( you can set them invisible
20090703 21:29:43< ilor> mordante: not really a good long term solution ;)
20090703 21:30:01< mordante> it's on my todo list but I've no usage case, but since you have I'll bump the priority
20090703 21:30:34< mordante> fendrin, so that option can be removed?
20090703 21:31:52< fendrin> mordante: not sure, it also makes things much easier for the player
20090703 21:31:54< mordante> fendrin, also regarding objectes you use "defeat all enemies" instead of all enemy leaders, but killing all leaders also ends the scenario
20090703 21:32:24< mordante> fendrin, silly choices are bad, then better let it depend on the difficulty level
20090703 21:32:39< mordante> I'm sure most users have no clue what it means
20090703 21:33:10< fendrin> mordante: True, it will be removed.
20090703 21:33:18< mordante> thanks
20090703 21:34:01< fendrin> mordante: no problem. I am playing with that decission for some time. It's just that an user whished that feature back on the forum.
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20090703 21:41:08< mordante> I'm off now, bye
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20090703 22:18:25< Ivanovic> stikonas: uploaded your tarball
20090703 22:18:41< Ivanovic> off for the evening, cu
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20090703 23:38:37< YogiHH> ilor: is there a way to force a new layout calculation for gui2 if the content of a label has changed and he has become wider? I don't know the content of that label in advance, so i filled it with a space initially, but it never gets enlarged.
20090703 23:39:55< ilor> YogiHH: I'm not having much joy with gui2 at the moment tbh, and no, don't know how to do what you're talking about
20090703 23:40:32< YogiHH> ilor: ah, ok, i will ask mordante then. Just thought you might have stumbled into this before
20090703 23:41:01< ilor> well, there seems to be a window.invalidate_layout(); call in one of the dialogs where I do change label text
20090703 23:43:16< ilor> YogiHH: ^'
20090703 23:44:42< corn> ilor, YogiHH: over the next few days I am going to build a tool that turns entire maps into PNG files, where should I look for how wesnoth puts a map together and displays it?
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20090703 23:45:07< MJ999> .map
20090703 23:45:14< ilor> corn: well, we do have a map-screenshot feature
20090703 23:45:33< corn> in-game?
20090703 23:45:51< corn> MJ999: yeah, I am looking at a .map file right now
20090703 23:45:53< ilor> if I recall correctly, yes. It might only be available as a hotkey
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20090703 23:46:15< corn> ilor: ok, thanks
20090703 23:46:51< ilor> the actual rendering happens in display.cpp, which also uses the evils of terrain_builder.?pp for assembling the actual terrains, randomization, mulithex tiles and all the fun stuff
20090703 23:48:07< corn> multihex tiles?
20090703 23:48:43< ilor> corn: for example, the large mountains
20090703 23:49:05< corn> ah
20090703 23:50:16< ilor> iirc, the map-screenshot renders the entire map to a surface just like during display, but the surface is made large enough so the map fits, and isn't actually displayed
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20090703 23:52:20< corn> that's exactly what I need
20090703 23:54:22< ilor> I'm off, night
20090703 23:54:59< corn> goodnight
20090703 23:55:06< MJ999> ilor, night
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--- Log closed Sat Jul 04 00:00:36 2009