--- Log opened Mon Jul 20 00:00:21 2009
--- Day changed Mon Jul 20 2009
20090720 00:00:21< stikonas> MikeJB: well, Lithuania has more than 3 million people, it's not *that* small
20090720 00:01:04< MikeJB> stikonas: I did not intend to diss Lithuania, I'm 1/4 Lithuanian.
20090720 00:01:20< Chusslove> stikonas: And on Gitorious too, and using the summitting system from KDE, so now I'm always at 100-100% 1.6-trunk.
20090720 00:01:22< silene> is that so? they should always be run on the same unit map the user sees on screen (since unit maps have never been passed to events, and i didn't have to change that)
20090720 00:02:07< stikonas> Chusslove: what is this system that you use for KDE?
20090720 00:02:21< Chusslove> http://techbase.kde.org/Localization/Workflows/PO_Summit
20090720 00:02:47< stikonas> previous maintainer has not mentioned it for me
20090720 00:03:03< MikeJB> I just didn't realize the scope of Wesnoth translations, I guess.
20090720 00:03:13< MikeJB> Does it have just about every European language?
20090720 00:03:44< Chusslove> stikonas: In fact, I've developed it after already having worked on Wesnoth, so while it's primarily used in KDE, some of it features are tightened to more critical Wesnoth's needs.
20090720 00:04:54< Chusslove> stikonas: You can see the repo layout: http://gitorious.org/wesnoth-sr/mainline/trees/master
20090720 00:04:56< silene> YogiHH: by the way, note that my changes do not impact euschn's work; as i said, i only started reusing resources that were already global, in particular i didn't change their lifetime: they only exist while a game is running (namely, these are the resources play_controller gave to the wml engine), so they can't be used by euschn
20090720 00:05:28< Chusslove> ...summit-sr/ there contains the POs which are union of 1.6 and trunk POs.
20090720 00:05:43< AI0867> is anyone opposed to fixing some of the multiple-leaders-on-one-side issues? they're rather simple changes
20090720 00:06:00< Chusslove> And with msgctxt and previous fields on fuzzy messages (#| msgid "...") too :)
20090720 00:06:52< Chusslove> So it's fully up to chunk to be mauled over through Lokalize.
20090720 00:07:43 * Rhonda goes to bed ...
20090720 00:08:10< stikonas> I simply have http://gitorious.org/wesnoth-lt/wesnoth-lt/commits/1.6
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20090720 00:09:16-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.7.2, announcing "soon" | 67 bugs, 240 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090720 00:10:14< Chusslove> E.g. it would be totally ugly to update such a fuzzy without previous diff :) http://caslav.gmxhome.de/image/wesnoth-previous-diff-01.png
20090720 00:10:52< silene> AI0867: which kind?
20090720 00:12:55< AI0867> silene: the issues or the changes?
20090720 00:13:08< MikeJB> I want to learn C++. I think it's the most useful programming language and if I start with one of the harder ones, I could easily pick up an easier one if necessary.
20090720 00:13:19< AI0867> the issues is that recruitment fails in multiple ways, so much that it's entirely unworkable
20090720 00:13:21< MikeJB> Any good free website explaining C++ or should I just buy a book?
20090720 00:13:33< AI0867> the fixes are simple: if the first match doesn't work, keep looking
20090720 00:13:37< YogiHH> silene: "they only exist while a game is running, so they can't be used by euschn": I don't quite understand that statement. euschn's project is about savegame information, so why do you think he can't use those resources?
20090720 00:15:19< ilor> AI0867: would be cool if you could make the code check the conditions *before* actually creating the recruited unit and rolling for it's traits ;)
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20090720 00:16:08< AI0867> ilor: that's entirely out of the scope of my changes, but I'll take a look
20090720 00:16:42< silene> YogiHH: because, when you load a game, the game does not exist yet (sorry if i'm stating obvious things)
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20090720 00:24:15< YogiHH> silene: Well, i can't quite follow you at the moment. I will have a look at the code and see if i can make more sense out of your statements, then. Still, even if it doesn't affect euschn, i (and probably others as well), would like to know about such fundamental changes, as they clearly have potential to conflict with other plans of reorganization. Again, i don't blame you for doing it, i...
20090720 00:24:17< YogiHH> ...just would like to be informed about it.
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20090720 00:27:20< silene> YogiHH: so, let me just repeat this: i didn't create any new global variable, i didn't even create new references to global variables, all of them existed before (for instance, take 1.7.1 tree and grep for get_state_of_game), i just put them all inside the same file, and i removed parameters that were necessarily equal to these references and therefore redundant
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20090720 00:30:03< Sapient> MikeJB: I highly recommend getting a book
20090720 00:31:23< loonycyborg> The Stroustrup's book namely :)
20090720 00:32:06< Sapient> MikeJB: here are some good book links for C++ -- http://jcatki.no-ip.org:8080/fncpp/Resources
20090720 00:32:45< silene> YogiHH: if i had changed something that wasn't global into something that was global; then you would have been right to say it was a fundamental change; but this isn't the case here
20090720 00:32:54< Sapient> Strousup is a good choice yes
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20090720 00:34:37< MikeJB> Sapient: Any Linux-friendly?
20090720 00:34:45< MikeJB> The first link on the list appears to be Windows-dependent.
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20090720 00:36:23< Sapient> in Linux you will be using gcc but that's largely irrelevant
20090720 00:37:47< YogiHH> silene: Hmm. If i want to use such a global resource, i will have to include resources.hpp now, right?
20090720 00:37:58< Sapient> (he left)
20090720 00:38:47< AI0867> YogiHH: yes
20090720 00:39:29< Sapient> MikeJB: I think the choice of editor and build system will be simple enough to avoid buying a book on that topic... the book is needed for the language itself
20090720 00:40:15< MikeJB> Well, I already make heavy use of gedit.
20090720 00:40:28< MikeJB> I know it's not as "hardcore" as vim or emacs, but it works for me.
20090720 00:40:51< YogiHH> AI0867: so basically, what i do is add a dependency to all kind of global stuff, even if i don't make use of it because i only need a small fraction of it. Wouldn't that be introducing a lot of unnecessary dependencies?
20090720 00:40:54< Sapient> if you're really averse to spending the cash, though, that site lists some decent online book choices
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20090720 00:41:13< MikeJB> Eh, I'm not averse to spending money, I'm just averse to wasting money.
20090720 00:41:32< MikeJB> It's a bad habbit of mine, not buying the right stuff... buying stuff I don't need and needing stuff I don't buy.
20090720 00:42:01< MikeJB> Thus I'm trying out a new thing called "research" before spending any money from now on.
20090720 00:42:10< Sapient> a wise choice
20090720 00:43:06< Sapient> I learned C++ without using any books but I encountered some pitfalls along the way; it's a tricky language and deserves the purchase
20090720 00:43:27< MikeJB> Well, I know a lot about computers, especially Linux-related stuff.
20090720 00:44:57< MikeJB> I also can type at 90-100 words per minute, which is an extremely fast speed (Probably due to growing up the son of two parents who worked with computers, although my mom retired way early and now asks *me* for computer help).
20090720 00:45:01< MikeJB> I just don't know how to program.
20090720 00:45:34< MikeJB> And that's kinda a big barrier in computer knowledge.
20090720 00:47:26< Sapient> well, don't let me dissuade you but there are far friendlier languages for beginning
20090720 00:47:44< Sapient> Python for example
20090720 00:48:28< MikeJB> Yes.
20090720 00:48:35< MikeJB> All of which are less useful to me.
20090720 00:49:05< MikeJB> I would prefer to start with the less friendly, which makes the "far friendlier" languages even easier if I need to know them.
20090720 00:49:19< MikeJB> If I wanted friendliness, I'd use a Mac, not Linux.
20090720 00:50:40< MikeJB> I realize that C++ is difficult. Which is a big motivation for wanting to learn it, actually. Kind of like why people climb mountains... except an intellectual version of that.
20090720 00:51:49< MikeJB> I figure if I even took half the time I simply waste with games/Internet and spent it toward a constructive, eduactional hobby, I might be able to finally cross that barrier from "good with computers" to "great with computers"
20090720 00:52:42< MikeJB> Besides, Wesnoth is coded in C++ iirc. As well as a bunch of other programs I use.
20090720 00:52:53< Sapient> just because it is harder doesn't mean you'll be learning programming principles more thoroughly
20090720 00:53:14< Sapient> for example, you could rewrite Wesnoth in assembler
20090720 00:53:45< MikeJB> Yes, but I find C++ useful.
20090720 00:54:03< MikeJB> As in, probably the programming language I'd use the most.
20090720 00:54:12< Sapient> ok, then, I see you've made up your mind. those links are a good start
20090720 00:54:22< Sapient> feel free to ask specific questions in here
20090720 00:54:25< MikeJB> Java, for example, only has two major draws: cross-platform and easier.
20090720 00:54:45< Sapient> I have to go walk the little sister...
20090720 00:54:48< MikeJB> ok.
20090720 00:54:49 * Sapient afk
20090720 00:55:10< MikeJB> I have to do things as well, so I am similarly afk.
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20090720 02:09:21< Sapient> my laptop is officially too slow to develop on now...
20090720 02:09:41< Sapient> started building trunk at 5:24pm and it's now 8:06
20090720 02:09:53< MJ999> o.O
20090720 02:10:31< Sapient> it's still trying to compile game.cpp
20090720 02:10:37< MJ999> And here I thought 3 minutes was a long time...
20090720 02:14:15< AI0867> how much memory do you have in there?
20090720 02:14:40< Sapient> 128 MB RAM
20090720 02:14:45< AI0867> even my eeePC can do that, but this laptop had serious issues when it still had 512 MB RAM
20090720 02:14:56< crimson_penguin> takes me about 15 minutes for a full recompile of 1.7.2
20090720 02:15:18< AI0867> Sapient: then you're constantly thrashing
20090720 02:15:19< crimson_penguin> and that's for 2 architectures, and -O2
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20090720 02:15:39< AI0867> gcc requires over 100 MB resident to compile game.cpp
20090720 02:16:03< AI0867> or your CPU usage goes to 90%+ I/O wait in a hurry
20090720 02:16:39< Sapient> when I was using MSVC++6 it built really fast
20090720 02:16:54< Sapient> is there anyway to configure gcc not to be such a memory hog?
20090720 02:17:28< AI0867> not sure
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20090720 02:32:20< Blueblaze> I've created a somewhat large map and if a player leaves and the side is given to the AI, the AI has a terrible time trying to make moves. Is there any way to prevent the AI from taking so long (even if that means causing it to be suicidal/make stupid decisions)?
20090720 02:32:59< AI0867> simple_targetting and such might help some
20090720 02:33:59< Aethaeryn> Blueblaze: what map?
20090720 02:34:06< Blueblaze> Aethaeryn: a map that I have made
20090720 02:34:13< Aethaeryn> Which one?
20090720 02:34:17< Blueblaze> Conquest
20090720 02:34:25< Sapient> maybe we need a "dumb ai" option for people on slow computers
20090720 02:34:54< Sapient> not sure how fast it will be after Crab's changes
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20090720 02:49:47< Sapient> ok, I killed all unecessary processes (other than irc) and started the build over.
20090720 02:50:18< Sapient> it's been running 20 minutes... doesn't look like it will compile game.cpp anytime soon
20090720 02:51:39< Aethaeryn> < crimson_penguin> takes me about 15 minutes for a full recompile of 1.7.2 <- lucky...
20090720 02:51:51< Aethaeryn> I just timed it, it took me 20 minutes to run "scons" after updating SVN
20090720 02:52:07< Aethaeryn> I haven't updated in a week or so, so it's not even as significant as compiling the whole thing from scratch.
20090720 02:52:20< crimson_penguin> well I'm not using scons, I'm compiling with XCode
20090720 02:52:52< crimson_penguin> it was 520 "files" or something (doubled for PPC and i386)
20090720 02:54:53< Sapient> I may give up on this until I have a faster computer
20090720 02:56:41< Sapient> anyways, I'll let it run overnight and see what happens
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20090720 04:22:06< CIA-51> ai0867 * r37086 /trunk/ (data/_main.cfg data/scenario-leaders.cfg src/actions.cpp): Multiple-leaders fix: if the first leader you see isn't on a castle, check for others.
20090720 04:22:10< CIA-51> ai0867 * r37088 /trunk/src/play_controller.cpp: Multiple-leaders fix: show the context menu items for every leader.
20090720 04:22:10< CIA-51> ai0867 * r37087 /trunk/src/actions.cpp: Don't show 'recruit' in the context menu unless the leader is actually on a keep.
20090720 04:22:11< CIA-51> ai0867 * r37089 /trunk/src/actions.cpp: Multiple-leaders fix: obey recruit-location hints by players.
20090720 04:24:27< MJ999> AI0867: R37087 fixes bug #13856
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20090720 04:38:39< AI0867> wesbot: bug 37087
20090720 04:38:40< wesbot> AI0867: Are you sure with that number?  Please check again...
20090720 04:38:49< AI0867> wesbot: bug 13856
20090720 04:38:50< wesbot> Bug #13856  Assigned to: None  Status: None  Priority: 5 - Normal
20090720 04:38:51< wesbot> Summary: Don't show "Recruit" in contextual menu when you can't recruit at a hex
20090720 04:38:53< wesbot> Original submission: As with Recall, it's also pointless showing "Recruit" whe
20090720 04:38:56< wesbot> n you're not at a hex that a leader can recruit units at. Currently, if you want
20090720 04:38:59< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?13856
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20090720 04:40:12< [Relic]> Hello :)
20090720 04:40:45< AI0867> MJ999: thanks for pointing that out
20090720 04:41:14< MJ999> AI0867: np
20090720 04:41:39< AI0867> wesbot: topic
20090720 04:41:41-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.7.2, announcing "soon" | 67 bugs, 238 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090720 04:45:12< CIA-51> ai0867 * r37090 /trunk/changelog: Update changelog.
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20090720 06:29:13< Aethaeryn> How do I convert maps to masks?
20090720 06:29:32< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: Mac binary is up
20090720 06:39:38< corn> Aethaeryn: what do you mean?
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20090720 06:43:25< Aethaeryn> corn: the editor says that border_size must be 0 when usage=mask
20090720 06:45:05< corn> oh
20090720 06:45:06< corn> no idea
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20090720 07:27:58< CIA-51> cornmander * r37091 /website/stats.wesnoth.org/wesstats/templates/killview.html: Added a tag that will show up to users without javascript execution enabled prompting them to enable JS.
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20090720 08:39:03< CIA-51> cornmander * r37092 /website/stats.wesnoth.org/wesstats/templates/killview.html: More work on GMap for wesnoth maps
20090720 08:39:23< corn> the gmap looks better now, but I still need to figure out weirdness for the lat/lng to x/y conversion
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20090720 08:41:29< corn> also it looks like part of the map is being cut off at one of the zoom levels
20090720 08:41:33< corn> hm
20090720 08:50:37< Aethaeryn> Does everyone have ban permissions?
20090720 08:50:39< Aethaeryn> I really hope not.
20090720 08:51:15< Aethaeryn> I just banned an obs chat-spammer as in ban-from-game, I hope the command doesn't ban-from-server
20090720 08:57:26< CIA-51> cornmander * r37093 /website/stats.wesnoth.org/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Fixed scaling bug in map tiler, updated GMap code to use a black background for nice effect
20090720 08:58:26< corn> now I need to get clickable hexes onto the map, fix the lat/lng problem, and put in a nice copyright/logo graphic in the bottom right corner
20090720 08:59:18< Aethaeryn> uh
20090720 08:59:20< Aethaeryn> No response?
20090720 08:59:40< Aethaeryn> I really need to know if I banned someone server-wide by accident when I just wanted to ban him from the damn game.
20090720 09:00:06< corn> it's early in the morning in america and europe right now :)
20090720 09:00:11< corn> I can't answer your question unfortunately
20090720 09:01:40< Aethaeryn> damn
20090720 09:01:57< Aethaeryn> Well, it's either two options: either ban isn't want it looks like or ban is universal.
20090720 09:02:07< Aethaeryn> (Or wiki moderators are also server moderators, which is unlikely.)
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20090720 09:10:50< YogiHH> hello
20090720 09:11:03< corn> hi
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20090720 09:15:56< Aethaeryn> zookeeper: Does /ban server ban them?
20090720 09:16:04< zookeeper> Aethaeryn, no idea
20090720 09:21:40< Blueblaze> Aethaeryn: Do you even have power to ban from the server?
20090720 09:22:18< Blueblaze> Aethaeryn: Why would everyone have permission to ban people from the server?
20090720 09:22:22< Blueblaze> That makes no sense whatsoever
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20090720 09:25:00< Crab_> wesbot: seen boucman
20090720 09:25:00< wesbot> Crab_: The person with the nick boucman last spoke 4d 10h ago.  4d 10h ago they left with the message: "Leaving."
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20090720 09:32:45< Crab_> AI0867: note that you haven't fully fixed 'allow recruiting with multiple leaders' - there's one more change that is needed for some parts of the ai (AI doublechecks that leader is on keep, in some places)
20090720 09:33:18< Crab_> ( I'll do it)
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20090720 09:59:17< Ivanovic> moin
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20090720 10:12:18< CIA-51> ilor * r37094 /trunk/src/ai/ (actions.cpp contexts.cpp): add a SDL_Delay into the ai code polling for a new random seed received from the server
20090720 10:12:42< CIA-51> ilor * r37095 /trunk/src/actions.hpp: fix struct/class warning in msvc
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20090720 10:51:07< CIA-51> ilor * r37096 /trunk/src/ai/ (actions.cpp contexts.cpp): clear the new seed callback when invalidating rng seed in ai code that does not set a callback
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20090720 11:06:59< Ivanovic> AI0867: the diff is huge because poedit does not break the lines into 80 chars per line
20090720 11:07:17< Ivanovic> so the diff is almost the whole file
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20090720 11:10:12< CIA-51> ivanovic * r37097 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog po/wesnoth/nl.po): updated Dutch translation
20090720 11:10:14< CIA-51> ivanovic * r37098 /branches/1.6/po/wesnoth/nl.po: updated Dutch translation
20090720 11:16:25< Ivanovic> AI0867: as you see in the commit message, the diff is really tiny
20090720 11:16:26< Ivanovic> ;)
20090720 11:19:00< stikonas> Ivanovic: you can run msgattrib on every po file
20090720 11:19:11< stikonas> before commiting to svn
20090720 11:19:33< Ivanovic> stikonas: what would that do?
20090720 11:20:03< Ivanovic> and personally i think it good that the strings are broken in 80 chars per line
20090720 11:20:40< stikonas> they break all strings in 80 chars
20090720 11:20:57< stikonas> so if some translator uses poedit, the diff will not be huge
20090720 11:21:34< stikonas> you just have to execute:
20090720 11:21:37< stikonas>   msgattrib "$FILE" > "$FILE"e
20090720 11:21:39< stikonas>   mv "$FILE"e "$FILE"
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20090720 11:22:50 * stikonas slaps poedit with a fish
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20090720 11:28:10< Ivanovic> stikonas: the diff *here* will not be huge anyway
20090720 11:28:21< Ivanovic> since when running the po update command they are automatically broken
20090720 11:28:40< Ivanovic> so no need for me to run msgattrib
20090720 11:28:42< stikonas> ah, ok
20090720 11:29:05< Ivanovic> AI0867 just wrote in the mail sending me the file that the diff would be huge because of poedit going fuba
20090720 11:29:26< Ivanovic> stikonas: though it would be *great* if you could add stuff like this in the wiki
20090720 11:29:36< stikonas> which page?
20090720 11:29:53< Ivanovic> http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/GettextForTranslators#FAQ
20090720 11:30:31< Ivanovic> stuff like "why is the diff this huge, i only changed on string (eg using poedit)"
20090720 11:30:59< stikonas> ok, I'll add it, just not right now
20090720 11:31:02< Ivanovic> got to head off now, cu
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20090720 12:07:37< YogiHH> anyone: I get a compiler error due to a missing SDL_putenv definition in game.cpp. It seems from the documentation that this function is not available on windows. However, i don't quite understand, why this didn't pop up before. Anyway, any ideas how to fix that?
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20090720 12:10:56< Soliton> it didn't pop up before because it just recently got introduced.
20090720 12:11:00< Soliton> corn: ^
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20090720 12:19:29< loonycyborg> *SDL*_putenv isn't available on windows?
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20090720 12:25:07< lynxlynxlynx> hi, wesnoth 1.7.2 doesn't build with gcc 4.4.0 here: http://pastebin.ca/1500958; I'll disavle -Werror, but you probably want to fix it in the long run
20090720 12:30:39< ilor> mordante: what would be the preferred way of altering the formatting (color etc) of a gui2 label's text -- pango <span color="foo"> ?
20090720 12:32:58 * ilor raises a works-for-me flag re: SDL_putenv
20090720 12:33:51< ilor> iirc I built my own SDL so YogiHH maybe you have an old version, iirc2 th ebinaries they have are somewhat old
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20090720 12:59:25< ilor> mordante: one more thing. a listbox has it's own scrollbar, but would it be possible to disable this, and have the listbox _plus some other stuff_ in a scroll panel?
20090720 13:00:01< ilor> more specifically, I'm thinking several listboxes vertically for the userlist with a common scrollbar
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20090720 13:21:28< YogiHH> ilor: vertical listboxes with a common scrollbar sounds - weird :-)
20090720 13:21:57< ilor> YogiHH: the point is to have some headers in the "middle"
20090720 13:22:10< ilor> YogiHH: I'll explain later, need to go now
20090720 13:22:25< YogiHH> np
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20090720 13:28:47-!- euschn [n=chatzill@wesnoth/developer/euschn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090720 13:28:48< euschn> hi
20090720 13:29:00< YogiHH> hi euschn
20090720 13:29:11< euschn> hi YogiHH 
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20090720 13:41:31< CIA-51> euschn * r37099 /trunk/src/multiplayer_ui.cpp: removed reference to game_state::load_recall_list
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20090720 14:44:19< CIA-51> euschn * r37100 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: removed references to player_info from game_events.cpp
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20090720 16:00:17< CIA-51> euschn * r37101 /trunk/src/menu_events.cpp: removed a player_info reference from menu_events.cpp
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20090720 16:41:05< AI0867> Ivanovic: with "make a mess" I meant reformatting the entire file to its own specs, not breaking the content, but msgattrib is nice to know about, I'll use that from now on.
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20090720 16:49:48< CIA-51> euschn * r37102 /trunk/src/playcampaign.cpp: removed the remaining references to player_info from playcampaign.cpp
20090720 17:02:33< CIA-51> euschn * r37103 /trunk/src/playsingle_controller.cpp: removed references to player_info from playsingle_controller.cpp
20090720 17:03:38< Ivanovic> AI0867: if you were using the cmake recipe you could just run "make po-update2-nl && make mo-update2-nl"
20090720 17:03:58< Ivanovic> this should update against the latest pot file and compile the files
20090720 17:04:22< Ivanovic> to get these commands you have to run cmake with -DENABLE_POT_UPDATE_TARGET=TRUE
20090720 17:05:04< Ivanovic> (eg from a compile folder that is on the same level as the trunk checkout: cmake ../trunk -DENABLE_POT_UPDATE_TARGET=TRUE
20090720 17:07:10< loonycyborg> That is 'scons update-po nl' :P
20090720 17:07:46< Ivanovic> afterwards you can just use the make commands above and got the files exactly the way i have them when commiting
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20090720 18:12:16< ilor> mordante: new lobby glitch, in low res (around 800*600) when I create a game with a long map name I get a horizontal scrollbar... even though everything fits (the scrollbar is inactive)
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20090720 19:20:58< mordante> servus
20090720 19:28:47< mordante> Aethaeryn, I can also recommend Stroustrup's book and this site as well http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
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20090720 19:34:07< corn> Ivanovic: received an email from LH today, everythough should be fine
20090720 19:34:51< boucman> hey all
20090720 19:34:59< corn> hey
20090720 19:35:17< corn> s/everythough/everything
20090720 19:36:06< ilor> hi mordante
20090720 19:36:18< mordante> hi boucman 
20090720 19:36:20< mordante> hi ilor 
20090720 19:36:29< mordante> good to hear corn 
20090720 19:37:17< ilor> mordante: I'm assuming you're going through the log ;)
20090720 19:37:35< CIA-51> ilor * r37104 /trunk/src/ (lobby_data.cpp lobby_data.hpp): remove the redundant location parameter from new lobby user info struct
20090720 19:37:48< mordante> ilor, yes guess I haven't reached the point to hint at yet ;-)
20090720 19:38:23< CIA-51> ilor * r37105 /trunk/src/server/ (game.cpp player.cpp player.hpp): record and send player playing/observing status in wesnothd
20090720 19:38:26< mordante> lynxlynxlynx, those warnings of g++-4.4 are in some SDL_Net macros so SDL_Net should be fixed
20090720 19:38:41< CIA-51> ilor * r37106 /trunk/ (21 files in 5 dirs): new lobby: Treat the game id as an int that it is, add status icons to player list (icons from patch/bug #11726 by megane), add server support for differentiating between players playing and observing a game.
20090720 19:38:57< mordante> ilor, oh you're the line below in the log :-)
20090720 19:40:11< mordante> ilor, the best way depends you can do it with pango markup, but another way is to define a new label with a different default colour
20090720 19:40:31< ilor> mordante: I want to control it from c++
20090720 19:40:48< mordante> pango markup 
20090720 19:41:11< ilor> mordante: also is pango markup supposed to work in [label]s?
20090720 19:42:49< lynxlynxlynx> mordante: too bad. Is -Werror used on purpose in released tarballs though?
20090720 19:43:12< mordante> ilor, whether or not it works depends on the label ;-) you can control it with tcontrol::set_markup_mode()
20090720 19:43:42< ilor> mordante: ah, so I guess it's just off by default :)
20090720 19:44:01< mordante> ilor, backwards compatibility 
20090720 19:44:34< mordante> lynxlynxlynx, it's the default compilation mode, but can be turned off with --disable-strict-compilation or something like it
20090720 19:45:46< lynxlynxlynx> the devel version doesn't use autotools anymore, but maybe there's a similar flag coded for cmake or scons
20090720 19:45:51< mordante> ilor, regarding the listbox in a scroll_panel, it's possible set the scrollbar mode of the listbox to never. I used this trick in the campaign selection dialog
20090720 19:46:27< ilor> mordante: oh that is so cool. I'll be able to do exactly what I initially wanted to in the proposal and the sketch
20090720 19:47:17< ilor> one listbox per "group" (players in selected game; players in lobby; players in other games) etc
20090720 19:47:30< mordante> lynxlynxlynx, it still uses autotools, but it's called ENABLE_STRICT_COMPILATION for cmake and strict in scons
20090720 19:47:31< ilor> hiding one "group" will be as simple as hiding one listbox
20090720 19:48:13< mordante> ah cool that means no urgent need for a tree widget :-)
20090720 19:48:21< lynxlynxlynx> hmm, i just notice configure was missing, i guess it has to be generated first now
20090720 19:48:40< lynxlynxlynx> when do you plan on choosing one build system?
20090720 19:48:47< mordante> yup that has been changed recently, might have been before 1.7.1
20090720 19:49:14< mordante> guess we're stuck with the three of them...
20090720 19:49:17< ilor> lynxlynxlynx: we kind of have a stalemate with various devs using various build systems
20090720 19:49:45< ilor> lynxlynxlynx: and I guess most of us got used to the idea that adding a new cpp file to the build means adding it in 3 or 4 places
20090720 19:49:47< corn> it seems like a massive duplication of effort
20090720 19:49:47< lynxlynxlynx> i know what you mean all too well
20090720 19:49:48< mordante> the initial project started but nobody followed it up and developers start to love different systems
20090720 19:50:09< ilor> I swear we are going to end up with a WML based sconscript/cmakelists/makefile.am generator
20090720 19:50:11< lynxlynxlynx> ilor: cmake supports globbing, so you don't have to do that :)
20090720 19:50:34< corn> why settle for generating scripts using wml
20090720 19:50:37< corn> we will have wesmake
20090720 19:50:44< corn> wml build scripts
20090720 19:50:45< ilor> lynxlynxlynx: globbing means any stray cpp file will get pulled into the build
20090720 19:50:46< mordante> corn, it is, but we're stuck with it now
20090720 19:51:00< lynxlynxlynx> ilor: you have stray cpp files?
20090720 19:51:10< mordante> lynxlynxlynx, globbing won't work since you don't know which target needs which files
20090720 19:51:33< ilor> lynxlynxlynx: happened a few times when I was testing soemthing and the fastest way was to stuff a a.cpp into src/
20090720 19:51:34< lynxlynxlynx> you can exclude those later manually
20090720 19:51:35< mordante> we could allow globbing, but then you need to put things in different directories per target
20090720 19:54:02< mordante> ilor, regarding your glitch, can you tell the exact map and exact resolution?
20090720 19:55:02< ilor> mordante: 800 by 600, for example 4p blue water province
20090720 19:55:47< loonycyborg> lynxlynxlynx: I don't see how globbing is good idea with cmake unless it can somehow to figure out to regenerate makefiles if new sources appear. With scons there's no such problem however.
20090720 19:56:40< mordante> ok will test later my computer is running git gc which makes it too slow to try to run it afterwards
20090720 19:57:02< mordante> loonycyborg, shouldn't be a problem, I do the same thing for POTFILES.in
20090720 19:57:54< mordante> if we really want to persuit that course we can start to label .cpp files with the target(s) they appear in
20090720 19:58:03< mordante> like we do with textdomains
20090720 20:00:09< ilor> mordante: I think this issue is present with your commit from yesterday (so no need to rebuild if you've got a binary from then)
20090720 20:00:33< ilor> I'm not saying that it appeared just now, might have not noticed before
20090720 20:00:45< lynxlynxlynx> loonycyborg: it eliminates the need to hardcode source files
20090720 20:01:00< mordante> I don't, my hdd space is low so cleanup my builds first
20090720 20:02:01< lynxlynxlynx> mordante: any special cases like arch-specific bits can be handled after the globbing by changing the produced list
20090720 20:02:16< loonycyborg> lynxlynxlynx: I know. I already use globbing in several sconstruct files. But if you use a makefile generator, it should have a way to figure out when to rebuild makefiles.
20090720 20:02:41< lynxlynxlynx> i don't know if it does or doesn't
20090720 20:03:07< mordante> lynxlynxlynx, it's not arch-specific but depends on which target you build and we have some libs to avoid recompilation
20090720 20:03:11< lynxlynxlynx> a cmake rerun takes a few seconds 
20090720 20:03:25< mordante> so either you need to use a directory structure or some tags in a file
20090720 20:03:53< lynxlynxlynx> mhm
20090720 20:03:59< loonycyborg> lynxlynxlynx: But you'll need to rerun it manually if there's an added sourcefile, but no cmakelists change.
20090720 20:04:18< lynxlynxlynx> no, i think that this is detected
20090720 20:04:54< loonycyborg> How? In order for this to be detected glob must definitely be run from make..
20090720 20:05:10< mordante> loonycyborg, there's no need for that, it's possible with cmake. As said before I use it to create POTFILES.in before a pot-update
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20090720 20:13:53< loonycyborg> I didn't say that it's impossible, but it's merely just hairy :/
20090720 20:14:13< mordante> depends on the definition of hairy :-P
20090720 20:16:40< loonycyborg> http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hairy.html :P
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20090720 20:20:15< mordante> good one ;-)
20090720 20:20:25-!- YogiHH [n=chatzill@c156105.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090720 20:21:03< mordante> hi YogiHH 
20090720 20:21:11< YogiHH> hi mordante
20090720 20:21:19< mordante> YogiHH, did you see my message in the log about the minimap yesterday/
20090720 20:22:14< YogiHH> mordante: no, just saw your commit that fixed the listbox issues
20090720 20:22:25 * YogiHH searches
20090720 20:22:48< mordante> YogiHH, just I think the minimap might have been fixed
20090720 20:23:10< YogiHH> ah, i see
20090720 20:23:24< mordante> if so it was a side-effect of another fix, so could you test whether it's really fixed?
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20090720 20:45:38< mordante> ilor, can't reproduce the scrollbar issue
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20090720 20:50:34< Ivanovic> re
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20090720 20:51:10< Ivanovic> corn: good
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20090720 20:57:43< ilor> mordante: here's what I get http://yfrog.com/14sadfjip
20090720 21:02:12-!- Crab_ [i=crab@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090720 21:02:15< Crab_> hi
20090720 21:02:18< boucman> hey Crab_
20090720 21:02:41< boucman> Crab_: still catching up wesnoth stuff, 
20090720 21:03:47< Crab_> ok. I've mostly changed (locally) things with ai configs to how I want them to be, and now I'm fixing all things broken it the process :)
20090720 21:04:40-!- silene [n=plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090720 21:04:46< mordante> ilor, as usual the devil's in the details ;-) using 18 W's as nick and getting that scrollbar causes the same problem for me
20090720 21:04:47< silene> hi
20090720 21:04:50< mordante> hi silene 
20090720 21:04:51< Crab_> hi silene
20090720 21:05:37< mordante> ilor, can you file a bug report and assign it to me, might take a while before I can tackle it and I see it as rather unimportant
20090720 21:05:51< ilor> mordante: it seems strange because even if the vertical scrollbar appeared there there's still enough space for the horizontal one to be not necessary
20090720 21:05:54< ilor> mordante: okay will do
20090720 21:06:26< mordante> I agree it's strange and I also consider it a bug, but when I use shorter player names I can't reproduce it
20090720 21:06:31< silene> Crab_, Dragonking: does that ring a bell? http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26340
20090720 21:06:59< mordante> I think it enables the scrollbar in order to reduce the size, fails but keeps the scrollbar
20090720 21:07:11< Crab_> silene: I'll take a look..
20090720 21:07:35< silene> mordante: you too ^ (just in case)
20090720 21:07:38< mordante> I don't have time tonight but might have a short look later this week (if trivial to fix I'll fix it otherwise leave it for now)
20090720 21:08:03< Dragonking> silene: I think we lack info about compiled version
20090720 21:08:13< Dragonking> silene: I messes with tokenizer short while ago
20090720 21:08:18< silene> Dragonking: 1.6.4
20090720 21:08:33< mordante> it's starting from the gui code at lest
20090720 21:08:35< Dragonking> Wierd
20090720 21:08:37< mordante> least*
20090720 21:09:08< Dragonking> Maybe some issue with boost::regexp since it is used in get_teken
20090720 21:09:19< Dragonking> get_token even
20090720 21:09:42< mordante> I think I've seen it before, but can't remember the details 
20090720 21:09:56< Dragonking> It's the first time I see it
20090720 21:11:13< Dragonking> It if has problems with tokenizing gui formulas, then it's a problem with boost I'd say
20090720 21:11:14< mordante> would be nice to know the boost version, it might be a bug in boost
20090720 21:16:03< mordante> I'm off bye
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20090720 21:18:03< YogiHH> silene: I looked at those changes regarding resources today, and it seems to me that they introduce new dependencies. For example, euschn and mei spent quite some thoughts to remove teams (and other) references from game_state, which is now kind of obsolete. What do you think about moving each resource to its respective file?
20090720 21:18:16< YogiHH> s/mei/me
20090720 21:18:56< ilor> YogiHH: iirc the resources header only contains pointers and their repsective forward decls, so not much of a trouble
20090720 21:19:02< silene> YogiHH: i think it would be a useless bloat; the file doesn't depend on anything
20090720 21:21:07< YogiHH> ilor: which SDL release are you using?
20090720 21:22:04< ilor> YogiHH: 1.2.13
20090720 21:22:28< YogiHH> hmm, same here and still no SDL_putenv ...
20090720 21:24:11< YogiHH> ugh, correction, only the binary is 1.2.13, the headers are not :/
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20090720 21:55:05< CIA-51> thespaceinvader * r37107 /trunk/ (15 files in 3 dirs): New base frame and animations for the Troll Hero.
20090720 21:56:34< boucman> Crab_: so, still no commit...
20090720 21:57:29< Crab_> boucman: yes, still no commit, and then ~4000-line patch.
20090720 21:57:38< boucman> oh...
20090720 21:57:47< boucman> I didn't expect it to be that big...
20090720 21:58:08 * Crab_ didn't expected it to be that big, too
20090720 21:58:12< Ivanovic> outsch
20090720 21:58:16< Dragonking> What do you write?
20090720 21:58:22< Ivanovic> 4k loc is something to read over...
20090720 21:58:34< Crab_> Ivanovic: and a lot to document, too
20090720 21:58:46< Ivanovic> :)
20090720 21:58:51< Dragonking> My last commit also had 4k lines but it was mostly moving things around files, so that doesn't count :)
20090720 21:59:27< corn> YogiHH: problem with my commit?
20090720 21:59:38< Crab_> Dragonking: different ai config file format, different ai parameters handling (via typesafe ai aspects), removal of some bloat, ...
20090720 21:59:49< Dragonking> I see
20090720 22:00:00< Dragonking> ok, I don't bother you then, good luck :)
20090720 22:00:14< YogiHH> corn: yes, but it will vanish hopefully as soon as i compiled an up-to-date SDL library
20090720 22:00:18< corn> ok
20090720 22:01:03< Crab_> Dragonking,boucman : and then we will need to discuss about all those ai aspects (and ai targets), and see which of them we will support as 'aspects which affect the entire ai', and which will be just default_ai-specific caches.
20090720 22:02:06< boucman> indeed
20090720 22:02:11< Dragonking> Sure
20090720 22:02:26< isaac> ffff
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20090720 22:03:44< Ivanovic> Crab_: and what do you think, how long will you need to review and comment those 4k lines?
20090720 22:07:38< boucman> Ivanovic: and I need to review them too ;)
20090720 22:08:27< boucman> Crab_: more seriously (since you're also here to learn stuff) this sort of commit is usually a bad idea
20090720 22:08:43< boucman> whenever you see your changes getting too large, try to cut it in commitable chunks
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20090720 22:08:57< boucman> (like reorganisation al stuff and independant features)
20090720 22:09:14< boucman> main problem with big commits is that it's harder to correct bugs 
20090720 22:09:33< boucman> when we bisect a bug and find such a commit, we still have a 4k patch to explore
20090720 22:10:33< [Relic]> Hello :)
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20090720 22:14:21< Crab_> Dragonking: here's the WIP list of them http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m6212567f
20090720 22:14:25< Crab_> Dragonking: in the future, we'll need to decide\document which of them will be respected by all ai parts, and which will be ai_default-specific.
20090720 22:16:30< Crab_> Ivanovic: there are some @fixme places to fix before reviewing/documenting/commenting
20090720 22:16:48< Dragonking> Crab_: Ok, I understand
20090720 22:18:07< boucman> Crab_: interesting
20090720 22:18:09< Crab_> boucman: yes, I know. but, if committed in several chunks, it'll badly break ai configs in savegames. so, theresn't much that can be split off.
20090720 22:18:30< Crab_> boucman: btw, we do depend on boost 1.33 ?
20090720 22:19:19< boucman> not sure what version we depend on...
20090720 22:19:21< boucman> i'll check
20090720 22:20:02< boucman> yes, 1.33
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20090720 22:21:53< Crab_> boucman: ok, then, the usual policy if several lines ( boost::dynamic_pointer_cast ) are needed from higher version of boost (1.34) ,is to copypaste it an put it somewhere in src/util.hpp ?
20090720 22:22:31< boucman> Crab_: I never had to do it myself, silene might know...
20090720 22:23:42< YogiHH> corn: alright, problem solved (SDL_putenv)
20090720 22:24:05< corn> ok, cool
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20090720 22:24:25< boucman> corn: is there a place where we can see your WIP ?
20090720 22:24:31< boucman> (just curious)
20090720 22:24:38< ilor> YogiHH: yay :)
20090720 22:24:40< corn> http://cornmander.com/wesstats/killmaps
20090720 22:24:46< boucman> thx
20090720 22:25:13< boucman> that is pretti cool
20090720 22:25:17< silene> Crab_: definitely not a copy-paste due to license issues; if you need something, you copy the whole file (including its license)
20090720 22:25:36< corn> it doesn't do anything relevant yet though
20090720 22:25:42< corn> I am going to add tile areas today :)
20090720 22:25:57< silene> but i tend to think it's a bad idea to copy things from boost, it would be better to increase the required version
20090720 22:26:06< corn> so it will read the map file and render a tile grid overlay that you can click on and get info for a particular tile
20090720 22:27:17< Crab_> silene: the use case is something like http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m609586d6
20090720 22:27:21< Ivanovic> corn: looks *really* cool already
20090720 22:27:41< corn> thanks
20090720 22:27:45< Ivanovic> IMO it would be fine to up the boost requirement to the latest version available in debian, which is 1.35 IIRC
20090720 22:28:04< Ivanovic> though this should of course be discussed on the wesnoth-ml
20090720 22:28:13< boucman> corn: do you feed it a map in the wesnoth map  format ?
20090720 22:28:31< corn> boucman: no, but that's will be done
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20090720 22:28:40< Crab_> silene: 'derived_smart_ptr c = boost::dynamic_pointer_cast< derived >(a);' imo, it's not worth increasing the required boost version just for boost::dynamic_pointer_cast
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20090720 22:28:51< corn> right now I pregenerate map tile PNGs using a script that I wrote and the new --screenshot param to wesnoth
20090720 22:29:20< corn> the goal will be to get .map files stored in a database (trasmitted from player logs) and generate map tiles in a nightly cronjob
20090720 22:29:27< CIA-51> noyga * r37108 /branches/1.6/po/ (6 files in 6 dirs): French translation update
20090720 22:29:35< corn> map tiles at http://cornmander.com/wesstats/images/
20090720 22:29:49< Ivanovic> corn: i am somehow concerned about bandwidth usage for the map when scrolling/zooming
20090720 22:29:55< Ivanovic> how have you solved this?
20090720 22:29:59< boucman> Crab_: you work is 1.7 only, and we better change requirement early... I say go for it
20090720 22:30:19< Crab_> boucman: well, see http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_34_0/boost/pointer_cast.hpp - it's really small.
20090720 22:30:20< Ivanovic> that is: i would personally say that a (lower res) jpeg version would be perfectly fine
20090720 22:30:23< corn> Ivanovic: only solution I can think of is to decrease the map size... gmaps2 already caches as much as possible
20090720 22:30:41< corn> right now I am storing in PNG format, and the 1:1 scale map is 7 MB
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20090720 22:31:47< corn> storing as JPG would probably decrease size, I'll check it out sometime this week
20090720 22:31:50< boucman> Crab_: i was more arguing "use you as a pretext to increase our requirement to a sane minimum" (debian is our usual "lowest common" as far as dependencies are concerned
20090720 22:31:51< Ivanovic> corn: personally i would somehow say that the max resolution of a single tile should be reduced (downscaled, eg 36x36 pixel instead of 72x72) and jpeg with a lower quality, something like -quality 50 or so could be used
20090720 22:31:59< corn> ok
20090720 22:32:06< corn> right now I have 1:1 scale and 1:16 scale
20090720 22:32:16< Ivanovic> since for the graph to be impressive the amount of details don't have to be as great as they are
20090720 22:32:45< Ivanovic> "if you want to see the full details, play the game, this is just for nerds who desire to see stats"
20090720 22:32:47< Ivanovic> ;)
20090720 22:32:49< corn> lol
20090720 22:32:50< corn> ok
20090720 22:33:08< corn> I'll change the scaling to be 1:4 scale and 1:16 scale
20090720 22:33:16< Ivanovic> but yeah, this looks lovely!
20090720 22:33:44< corn> it will be much better once there is actual data attached to the map ;)
20090720 22:33:53< Ivanovic> :)
20090720 22:34:06< Ivanovic> is there also some "get directions" feature for wesnoth maps?
20090720 22:34:14< corn> lol
20090720 22:34:22< Ivanovic> so which route to take if i want to travel from weldyn to elensefar?
20090720 22:34:22< Crab_> boucman: well, my debian has 1.35 from stable
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20090720 22:34:30< corn> maybe in v2
20090720 22:34:42< Ivanovic> (sorry, it looks this much like normal google maps...)
20090720 22:35:16< boucman> Crab_: yes, that's why upping the requirement shouldn't raise many eyebrows, it's a simple mail to the ml...
20090720 22:35:20< YogiHH> mordante: confirmed, 16bit resolution works with gui2 minimap. I think i found another bug, though: If you scroll down in a listbox and then select an entry, the list "forgets" the scrolling position and starts from the beginning again, leaving the scrollbar at the right position. 
20090720 22:35:23< Ivanovic> but better use a good routing algorithm, not the one used with google maps some time ago where you could drive by car from london to new york ("and now for 20k miles through the atlantic...")
20090720 22:35:30< corn> oh
20090720 22:35:37< corn> they fixed it, now it tells you to row/canoe across
20090720 22:36:11< Ivanovic> "row", not bad
20090720 22:36:15< corn> oh
20090720 22:36:17< Ivanovic> if you manage this you are really fit...
20090720 22:36:17< corn> not working anymore
20090720 22:37:17< Crab_> boucman: but someone may be used an outdated system. I don't want to cause problems which can be avoided by copying 1 small header file from boost (and changing it a bit - moving to another namespace - to avoid name clashes)
20090720 22:37:19< corn> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=new+york+city&daddr=honolulu&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&sll=34.90793,-115.992615&sspn=84.176773,111.269531&ie=UTF8&z=3
20090720 22:37:38< Dragonking> Crab_: We should go ahead with alive. ;)
20090720 22:37:41< corn> "Kayak across the Pacific Ocean (2,756 mi)
20090720 22:37:43< corn> "
20090720 22:38:07< ilor> corn: I actually did test this a while back and a 4MB png of a map takes about 1MB as a quality-100 jpeg, and 250KB as a quality-50 jpeg
20090720 22:38:20< corn> ilor: excellent
20090720 22:38:51< Ivanovic> tststs, for walking distance they say kayak, too
20090720 22:38:58< ilor> corn: the 50 version has some jpeg artifacts but still bearable, the 100 version is hard to distinguish from png
20090720 22:39:12< ilor> corn: 8bit png takes about 1MB too but looks far worse
20090720 22:39:15< boucman> Crab_: I personally think it's not worth maintaining the file in here... we do expect our user base to be relatively up to date 
20090720 22:39:17< Ivanovic> i tend to use quality 90 for "official" screenshots
20090720 22:39:31< Ivanovic> since it looks good (really presentable!) and has an okay size
20090720 22:39:45< Ivanovic> so for normal "see stats" interface 50 is really perfect
20090720 22:40:00< Ivanovic> maybe you could even go down to 40, not sure
20090720 22:40:01< corn> ilor, Ivanovic: ok, I'll change my script to use jpg 50 or jpg 90 for tiles
20090720 22:40:03< ilor> 50 has some artifacts but mainly around the grid lines
20090720 22:40:07< Ivanovic> though below this it will probably be bad
20090720 22:40:23< ilor> corn: so if you don't have grid or do it separately then it will look even better imo
20090720 22:40:39< corn> grids are not stored as pixel data
20090720 22:40:43< corn> it's vector overlays on the map
20090720 22:41:01< ilor> corn: great then. jpeg is not very nice with straight lines
20090720 22:41:07< corn> ok
20090720 22:42:55< corn> gmaps is pretty nice except that they have some weird x/y -> lat/lng conversion that changes at different zoom levels
20090720 22:43:05< corn> that's why the map shifts around if you switch zoom levels
20090720 22:44:30< Ivanovic> Soliton: the mp server already supports 1.7.2?
20090720 22:45:55< Ivanovic> 1.7.2 announcement forum post: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26342
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20090720 22:46:07< Ivanovic> Soliton: yes, mac and windows binaries are out
20090720 22:47:55< Soliton> yeah, .2 is allowed. is it incompatible with .1?
20090720 22:50:18< Ivanovic> i don't know
20090720 22:50:29< Ivanovic> that is why i added a "probably" in the compatibility line
20090720 22:51:15< Ivanovic> personally i would welcome only allowing 1.7.2 on the official server for the dev version, so that this one gets some more testing
20090720 22:51:43< Soliton> yeah, if all binaries are out that's fine.
20090720 22:51:52-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 67 bugs, 238 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090720 23:02:05< Ivanovic> okay, the great bug closing is done, too
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20090720 23:07:49< CIA-51> noyga * r37109 /trunk/po/ (6 files in 6 dirs): French translation update
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20090720 23:11:10-!- Sapient [n=patrickp@wesnoth/developer/sapient] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090720 23:11:47< Sapient> well, I was able to build trunk after 9 and a half hours last night...
20090720 23:12:02< Sapient> the old laptop completed the job around 6AM
20090720 23:12:14< Crab_> Sapient: congratulations :)
20090720 23:12:29< Ivanovic> :)
20090720 23:12:34< loonycyborg> How much RAM does it have?
20090720 23:12:47< Sapient> 128MB
20090720 23:13:10< Sapient> actually a little less than that; I think it has some bad sectors which recently failed
20090720 23:13:32< Sapient> I get a little warning about it every time I boot up
20090720 23:13:35< loonycyborg> Then 9 hours is unsurprising :)
20090720 23:14:11-!- melinath [n=melinath@stud243246.studentenheim.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090720 23:14:40< Sapient> so what stats should I get for my new development PC? :p
20090720 23:15:27< loonycyborg> At least 1 Gb RAM
20090720 23:15:34< Ivanovic> what hardware do you have in it?
20090720 23:15:54< Ivanovic> or is this lovely laptop your new development pc?
20090720 23:16:06< Ivanovic> testing wesnoth on it for speed and ram usage would probably be interesting...
20090720 23:17:16< Sapient> yeah, I try to avoid controlling the AI in MP
20090720 23:17:27< CIA-51> noyga * r37110 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): chngelog update for r37109
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20090720 23:17:29< Ivanovic> :)
20090720 23:17:31< Sapient> but I have been playing wesnoth on it
20090720 23:17:53< Ivanovic> NR or the later scenarios in thot could be "interesting" on it
20090720 23:18:04< Ivanovic> that is: if you got *lots* of swap, since you will need it in turn 200...
20090720 23:18:55< Sapient> I've been using the same laptop since 2002
20090720 23:19:07< Sapient> so it's starting to show its age
20090720 23:19:33< Elvish_Pillager> :)
20090720 23:19:34< Ivanovic> hmm
20090720 23:19:37< Ivanovic> laptop from 2002
20090720 23:19:45< Ivanovic> is it a P3?
20090720 23:20:08< Sapient> dell inspiron... p4 iirc
20090720 23:20:41< Sapient> I'm currently still at work so couldn't tell you the exact stats
20090720 23:20:49< Ivanovic> :)
20090720 23:21:07< Ivanovic> ah, right, my 6 year old laptop already has a 2.8GHz P4
20090720 23:21:17< Ivanovic> so a 7 year old one should not be *this* much below
20090720 23:21:17< Sapient> lol
20090720 23:21:50< Sapient> regardless of the stats, it's pretty much worthless for wesnoth now
20090720 23:22:06< Ivanovic> :)
20090720 23:22:58< CIA-51> noyga * r37111 /branches/1.6/data/core/about.cfg: Credit updates for the french translation
20090720 23:24:07< CIA-51> noyga * r37112 /trunk/data/core/about.cfg: Credit updates for the french translation
20090720 23:24:13< melinath> esr: do you happen to know anything about alphabets for languages without consonants or vowels, but rather tones/lengths or clicks?
20090720 23:24:22< melinath> for the mermen
20090720 23:25:47< Sapient> could make it hard to write their dialogue
20090720 23:26:47< melinath> nah
20090720 23:26:52< Ivanovic> and even harder to understand for the average player
20090720 23:26:58< melinath> not for communication with land-creatures
20090720 23:27:02< Ivanovic> (and translators will start to swear)
20090720 23:27:40< melinath> there's a wesnothian alphabet
20090720 23:27:47< melinath> which implies a wesnothian language
20090720 23:27:59< melinath> but there's no movement to write wesnoth in wesnothian
20090720 23:28:13< Turuk> Yup, because as noted previously, starting to write extensively in that language will confuse all but those few who understand it
20090720 23:28:38< melinath> similarly, a merfolk script would be based in a language suitable for speech underwater
20090720 23:28:47< melinath> compare: whales and dolphins
20090720 23:29:00< melinath> this would not be a language that the player would be forced to read
20090720 23:29:27< melinath> purpose: art.
20090720 23:29:39< melinath> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=26295
20090720 23:30:05< melinath> compare: futhark and ugaritic as dwarf/human magical scripts.
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20090720 23:30:55< Sapient> "what's your name?" "ooh-ooh-ooh-click-click"
20090720 23:31:27< melinath> sounds like a cuttlefish when you put it that way.
20090720 23:32:17< melinath> I would assume that merfolk would either use translations of their names or adopt new names specifically to interact with land-people.
20090720 23:32:48< melinath> Though I'm not familiar with the random name generator for merfolk.
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20090720 23:57:16< boucman> night all
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--- Log closed Tue Jul 21 00:00:06 2009