--- Log opened Fri Jul 24 00:00:34 2009 20090724 00:08:12< esr> Kitty: Phoneme inventory coming up. 20090724 00:09:06< esr> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m2fc3a22a 20090724 00:09:14-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 62 bugs, 238 feature requests, 12 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org 20090724 00:10:01< kitty___> esr: thanks :) working on it 20090724 00:10:04< esr> To get this I actually removed a couple of rarely-used phonemes from the name list. Look that over and see if you spot any omissions or inconsistencies. 20090724 00:12:26< esr> It;s now 6 vowels and 16 consonants. 20090724 00:16:36-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has quit ["Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"] 20090724 00:17:03-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@wesnoth/bot/loonybot] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20090724 00:27:18-!- Tigge [n=tigge@bacchus.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 00:28:12-!- silene [n=plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has quit ["Leaving."] 20090724 00:28:40-!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20090724 00:28:57-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has quit ["night all"] 20090724 00:29:15-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit ["GO, GET TO THE CHOPPAH!!!"] 20090724 00:31:55< kitty___> esr: you wrote 16 consonants - but i only count 15 on your list? 20090724 00:32:07< esr> Checking... 20090724 00:32:21< esr> Correct. 20090724 00:32:42< esr> 21 phonograms in all - should be quite doable, I think? 20090724 00:32:58 * esr enjoys this 20090724 00:33:20< kitty___> me, too! 20090724 00:41:04-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 00:49:24-!- blarumyrran [n=minaise@81-20-159-197.levira.ee] has quit [] 20090724 00:52:10< kitty___> esr: update: http://imagebin.ca/img/oDxwesyv.jpg 20090724 00:57:35< kitty___> vocals get attatched to the upper corner of the triangle now, consonants use all three sides and the lower two corners. For the top down triangles all particles get rotated 180° 20090724 00:59:11-!- Elvish_Pillage2 [n=eli@71-10-231-36.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 01:05:36< esr> Very nice. 20090724 01:06:35< esr> One suggestion about the logograms: Given the semantic field you seem to be trying to cover with the lasrtt one, I sggest changing "grandsire" to "ancestor". 20090724 01:07:12-!- ilor [n=user@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has quit [] 20090724 01:09:47< CIA-63> esr * r37198 /trunk/data/core/macros/names.cfg: 20090724 01:09:47< CIA-63> Simplify and document the phonology of Drake names, so Kitty can do 20090724 01:09:47< CIA-63> the writing system. 20090724 01:12:08< kitty___> ok, will change the gransire. I don't know how many logograms I'll produce or if I'll rather wait if anybody needs tow rite something and invent them for those occasions. will see. 20090724 01:12:30< kitty___> but I'm off to bed for now 20090724 01:12:35-!- kitty___ [n=kitty@e180201104.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 20090724 01:14:58-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-231-36.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20090724 01:39:43-!- Chusslove [n=Chusslov@brsg-d9beefa1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20090724 01:45:30-!- Chusslove [n=Chusslov@brsg-d9beef43.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 02:00:06-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-231-36.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 02:00:32-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit ["WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!"] 20090724 02:04:06-!- Crab_ [i=crab@wesnoth/developer/crab] has quit ["Leaving."] 20090724 02:11:07-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has 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20090724 06:59:30-!- shikadibot [n=shikadi@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Client Quit] 20090724 06:59:39-!- shikadibot [n=shikadi@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 06:59:51-!- shikadibot [n=shikadi@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Client Quit] 20090724 07:00:28-!- shikadibot [n=shikadi@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 07:03:43< CIA-63> jetryl * r37200 /branches/1.6/data/core/images/units/undead/ (50 files): Shadow updates for the soulless. 20090724 07:12:49-!- shikadibot is now known as NinjaRobotZombie 20090724 07:13:49-!- NinjaRobotZombie is now known as shikadibot 20090724 07:18:07< CIA-63> shadowmaster * r37201 /trunk/data/campaigns/Descent_Into_Darkness/scenarios/02_Peaceful_Valley.cfg: 20090724 07:18:07< CIA-63> Little cosmetic change: make the event Ghouls in DiD scenario 2 start 20090724 07:18:07< CIA-63> facing southwest instead of southeast ("staring at the wall"). 20090724 07:18:39< shadowmaster> I guess I don't care enough to backport it to 1.6. It was just a whim 20090724 07:48:04-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 07:48:05< CIA-63> jetryl * r37202 /branches/1.6/data/core/images/units/undead/ (14 files): Shadow updates for the ghouls. 20090724 07:48:37< CIA-63> jetryl * r37203 /trunk/data/core/images/units/undead/ (14 files): Shadow updates for the ghouls. 20090724 07:54:54-!- [Relic] [n=[Relic]@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20090724 07:58:04-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Connection timed out] 20090724 08:07:09-!- zookeeper [n=l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 08:22:50-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit ["WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!"] 20090724 08:40:02-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 08:58:49-!- euschn [n=chatzill@wesnoth/developer/euschn] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 09:04:12< euschn> hi 20090724 09:05:10-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 09:16:38-!- YogiHH [i=d4ca9d15@wesnoth/developer/yogihh] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 09:16:53< YogiHH> hello 20090724 09:18:00-!- melinath [n=melinath@vpn1249.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 09:22:14< shadowmaster> esr: around? 20090724 09:22:50-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 09:30:31-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20090724 09:40:30< shadowmaster> esr: when you are back, note that patch #1183 in r36577 introduces an author name that should be in the Contributors section, instead of at the end of Programming which is reserved for those with read/write access to the repository 20090724 09:40:57< shadowmaster> and it isn't in alphabetical order even 20090724 09:43:44< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: Oron is a translator? He committed the Fribidi patch directly to the repository, maybe he should be added to Miscellaneous Contributors? (yays for Miscellaneous sections) 20090724 09:46:47-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit ["leaving"] 20090724 09:53:30-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [] 20090724 10:12:27-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@79.139.136.93] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 10:13:14-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.136.93] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 10:13:40-!- ilor [n=user@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 10:30:13-!- melinath [n=melinath@vpn1249.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [] 20090724 10:37:06< CIA-63> euschn * r37204 /trunk/src/gamestatus.cpp: game_state::get_player_info can now use [side] tags in addition to [player] to get persistence information from starting_pos. also removed obsolete error message 20090724 10:38:12-!- Blueblaze [n=nick@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20090724 10:59:39< Ivanovic> moin 20090724 11:00:57< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: yes, oron is basically one of the hebrew translators (though he was inactive for a rather long time before his fribidi commit) 20090724 11:08:57-!- allefant [n=allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 11:09:49-!- kitty_ [n=kitty@wesnoth/artist/kitty] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 11:13:57< kitty_> esr: i was wondering - why has your phoneme inventory for the drakes no /h/ but some of the names do have one (Ohn, Ihn, Marhildian)? 20090724 11:18:02< Chusslove> Do they? When I was translating, I transliterated them without h-sound, as if they were extending the previous (semi)vowel. 20090724 11:19:06< kitty_> Yeah, I used this method for making my example combinations, too. but i want to be on the safe side - perhaps he just forget the h and I'll simply add a glyph for it 20090724 11:19:36< kitty_> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/download/file.php?id=32750&mode=view 20090724 11:26:13< Chusslove> "Notably absent" comment is a bit strange :) 20090724 11:27:41< kitty_> that was esr's comment - i think he meant that those are a notable differences to our phonetic system 20090724 11:27:49< Chusslove> "Our?" 20090724 11:27:59< Chusslove> As in, English? 20090724 11:28:24-!- mjs-de [n=mjs-de@vpw.wh.Uni-Dortmund.DE] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 11:28:43< Chusslove> What I mean... 20090724 11:29:05< kitty_> yes, but that's only what I figured, I'll need to wait for him to get back for some explanation :P 20090724 11:29:42< Chusslove> ...is just that whenever I'm seeing script-phonetic description, it lists the inventory, without "absent" or "present" qualification -- unless it's meant as direct comparison of two languages. 20090724 11:30:55< kitty_> makes sense, probably I'll just skip the sentence 20090724 11:31:54-!- Zarel [i=Zarel@warzone2100/developer/Zarel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20090724 11:52:19-!- Mellar_ [n=brebbesv@ti400720a080-0150.bb.online.no] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 12:09:04-!- Mellar [n=brebbesv@ti400720a080-3273.bb.online.no] has quit [Connection timed out] 20090724 12:27:31-!- Crab_ [n=Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 12:32:06< esr> kitty: Your interpretation is correct. 20090724 12:32:20-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20090724 12:32:58< esr> kitty_: Hmm, "Marhildian" is an rxception, but I was treating "hn" as a nasalization indicator. 20090724 12:33:17< esr> There's a note to that effect. 20090724 12:33:34< kitty_> ok, thans 20090724 12:35:01-!- happygrue_ [n=George@c-67-176-145-41.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 12:35:18< esr> I will revise that node slightly to indicate it is comparing to English. I'm leaning towards removing "Marhildian", as it doesn't fit the phonotacts of the other names very well. 20090724 12:35:45< esr> Or pehaps I'll replace the /h/ with /'/ 20090724 12:36:46< kitty_> let me know when you've done the changes and I'll change my sheet accordingly 20090724 12:38:53< CIA-63> esr * r37205 /trunk/data/core/macros/names.cfg: Minor fix to a bug in Drake name phonotactics pointed out by Kitty. 20090724 12:39:08< esr> OK Marhildian -> Mar'Ildian 20090724 12:42:33-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-231-36.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 12:45:49< kitty_> changed on my sheet, too: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/download/file.php?id=32751&mode=view 20090724 12:52:35-!- happygrue [n=George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20090724 12:55:49-!- melinath [n=melinath@vpn1249.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 13:00:50< kitty_> esr: do you have time to talk about melinath's and my proposal for the merfolk script? 20090724 13:01:17< esr> kitty_: Sure. Where is it? 20090724 13:01:53< kitty_> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/download/file.php?id=32706&mode=view and basic considerations in melinath's second post here: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=26295&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30 20090724 13:02:14< esr> I note an awkward thing about Drake phonograms - they don't seem to indicated phoneme order within a word. 20090724 13:03:14< kitty_> yes, they are more like a rebus, highly ceremonial and not for everyday use. But i try to write the consonsnts from left to right whenever possible 20090724 13:04:57< esr> OK. 20090724 13:06:20< esr> If Drake cultural evolution follows historical models (e.g. in the ancient Near East) they'll eventually develop a phonetic alphabet from the phonograms. 20090724 13:06:37-!- EdB [n=edb@2.12.95-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 13:06:50< kitty_> perhaps :P when we have made scripts for all the major races 20090724 13:07:59< esr> Nothing much to say about the mer-script except that it seems logical and sensible, given the premises. 20090724 13:08:14< kitty_> yay - that'S what I wanted to hear ;) 20090724 13:08:32< esr> Just as a matter of interest, I now know two word elments and one whole word in Wesnothian. 20090724 13:09:15< kitty_> i didn't understand your last sentence 20090724 13:09:48< esr> I've known for years that the "ath" or "eth" element in many Wesnothian place names has to mean "fortified place". 20090724 13:10:09< kitty_> ah, ok. 20090724 13:10:24< esr> I now believe the prefix "ara" means "great" or "noble". 20090724 13:10:56< kitty_> so in a couple of years we'll have a wesnothian-english dictionary? 20090724 13:11:08< esr> So, our first whole word: "arath" = noble house. Also, in a different context, "castle". 20090724 13:11:27< esr> It seems possible. 20090724 13:12:46< esr> This is pleasingly resonent with Celtic "rath" for "hill", especially used of fortified hills. 20090724 13:14:25< esr> (Yes, I *am* the person who has been pushing the sound pattern of Wesnothian names more in the direction of Welsh :-) ) 20090724 13:16:24< esr> I'm not sure yet, but I think Wesnothian forms plurals with an "-in" suffix. So, "castles" = "arathin". 20090724 13:18:01< esr> In pre-First-Dark-age Wesnothian, hen the glottal stop was still a commonm sound in Wesnothian, the base word was probably "ara'ath". 20090724 13:18:13 * esr loves this stuff 20090724 13:28:21-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20090724 13:28:37-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 13:30:13-!- ancestral [n=ancestra@97-116-127-39.mpls.qwest.net] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20090724 13:38:40-!- EdB [n=edb@2.12.95-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20090724 13:57:38< kitty_> esr: I'm getting much too intrigued with all that script stuff :P A quick experiment with a mundane script variant for the drakes: http://imagebin.ca/img/hvQbdN8t.jpg Simply the phoneme particles written next to each other, every second word upside down. Trying to capture some harsh, quick personality. 20090724 14:03:04-!- melinath [n=melinath@vpn1249.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20090724 14:04:47-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-231-36.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20090724 14:05:20-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-231-36.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 14:13:29-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 14:23:38-!- allefant_ [n=allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 14:36:19< CIA-63> soliton * r37206 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/Dust_Devil.cfg: add 2 HP on the full-heal AMLA of the Dust Devil 20090724 14:37:46-!- allefant [n=allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20090724 14:38:17< Soliton> stikonas: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13986 is now fixed, yes? 20090724 14:38:36-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net/"] 20090724 14:38:40-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20090724 14:38:59-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@wesnoth/bot/loonybot] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20090724 14:43:03-!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-177-212.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 15:01:29< esr> kitty: Cursive forms FTW! :-) 20090724 15:02:29< esr> kitty: You have a good feel for this stuff. 20090724 15:03:25< esr> Oops, I just figured something out. 20090724 15:03:45< CIA-63> ilor * r37207 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): wire in skip replay preference to new lobby 20090724 15:04:33< CIA-63> ilor * r37208 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/lobby_main.cpp: fix issue with gamelist dblclick 20090724 15:04:52< CIA-63> ilor * r37209 /trunk/data/gui/default/window/lobby_main.cfg: lobby cfg cleanup 20090724 15:05:12< CIA-63> ilor * r37210 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/lobby_main.cpp: add admin auth recognition to new lobby 20090724 15:05:31< CIA-63> ilor * r37211 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/lobby_main.cpp: change chat window open message to include /ignore help for a whisper window 20090724 15:05:33< esr> Phonetics and structure of the merfolk script = win. The fact that it uses brushstroke forms = lose. Brush & ink forms won't evolve underwater! It needs to be redone as somethinhg more like ogham that you could scratch or incise on things. 20090724 15:05:47< CIA-63> ilor * r37212 /trunk/data/advanced_preferences.cfg: add advanced_prefernce entries for lobby friends-only whisper setting and lobby auto-opening of new whisper windows 20090724 15:06:05< CIA-63> ilor * r37213 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/ (lobby_main.cpp lobby_main.hpp): remeber playerlist sort settings in new lobby 20090724 15:06:24< CIA-63> ilor * r37214 /trunk/data/advanced_preferences.cfg: change default value for one new lobby preference 20090724 15:07:30< CIA-63> ilor * r37215 /trunk/ (data/advanced_preferences.cfg src/gui/dialogs/lobby_main.cpp): add an advanced preference for disabling new lobby player grouping in the player list 20090724 15:08:32< CIA-63> ilor * r37216 /trunk/src/ (game.cpp mouse_events.cpp random.cpp rng.hpp): add a --no-srng command line option to disable server-side RNG support to allow potential OOS debugging without having to rebuild 20090724 15:09:42-!- BenUrban [n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban] has quit ["Power failu"] 20090724 15:11:00-!- ilor [n=user@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20090724 15:11:09-!- ilor [n=user@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 15:29:11-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 15:31:12< corn> wow ilor 20090724 15:31:22< corn> two days straight my email has been filled with commit logs by you :) 20090724 15:32:25-!- happygrue_ [n=George@c-67-176-145-41.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20090724 15:33:48-!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@64.201.60.211] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 15:36:33< kitty_> esr: actually i like the current look of the merscript too much to change the basics. runes or ogham-like stuff just doesn't feel right. I'd like to go with an explanation like they use some kind of wax tablets on which one can write with an angled stick to produce cursive forms. I'd be willing to make a more angular vaiant for scratching, though. 20090724 15:36:38< CIA-63> euschn * r37217 /trunk/src/ (gamestatus.cpp playcampaign.cpp): added carryover gold handling to game_state::write_players if merge_side is specified 20090724 15:48:19-!- corn [n=cornmand@wesnoth/developer/cornmander] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20090724 15:48:23< kitty_> esr: angular version: http://imagebin.ca/img/ii_LavL.jpg works but meh 20090724 15:48:38-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 15:49:10< kitty_> and do you have any kind of comment on the mundane version of the drake script? or is it simply ok the way it is? 20090724 15:53:37< CIA-63> euschn * r37218 /trunk/src/savegame.cpp: scenariostart saves now store persistence information in [side] tags 20090724 16:03:24< esr> Angular merfolk script looks OK but isn't exciting. Drake cursive looks really good. 20090724 16:06:25< kitty_> it's hard to make something exciting if you are already content with what you have.... normally i'd leave it alone for a few days and come back to it later. but now i need it now for use as chiselled etc. on the merman portraits i'm working on parallely. 20090724 16:10:55-!- ABCD_ [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20090724 16:11:11-!- ABCD [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 16:16:19-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20090724 16:18:54-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 16:30:55-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20090724 16:31:28-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20090724 16:31:59-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 16:32:21-!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-177-212.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 16:33:17-!- Sapient [n=patrickp@wesnoth/developer/sapient] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 16:37:23< kitty_> esr: next try http://imagebin.ca/img/oOXZYpp.jpg 20090724 16:40:00-!- YogiHH [i=d4ca9d15@wesnoth/developer/yogihh] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 20090724 16:40:02< esr> kitty: that is more interesting - though in practice I think speed writing would tend t produce your earlier version. 20090724 16:42:34-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20090724 16:43:12< kitty_> which isn't "exiciting" and honestly plain ugly 20090724 16:49:19-!- Chusslove [n=Chusslov@brsg-d9bee7af.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20090724 16:51:38< kitty_> esr: the longer I am staring at those three variants the more I lean towards the original one. I will probably be the only one every applying them (on those portaits). hence usability isn't that much of an issue. and to me a feeling fitting the culture is more important than the question if they scratch it in stone or in wax or whatever... 20090724 16:53:27< esr> That's an artistic call and yors to make on your portraits. However, as a way of giving the world more depth we should probably document all three variants. 20090724 16:54:27< esr> Or at least the original and the "scratch" variant, even though it's kind of blah. 20090724 16:55:46< kitty_> yeah. I'll use the original for the portraits and perhaps I'll have a sudden inspiration for the scratch variant later on. we'll see. 20090724 16:56:40< CIA-63> euschn * r37219 /trunk/src/ (gamestatus.cpp gamestatus.hpp playcampaign.cpp): removed the [player] tag from replay_start in savegames. saves with player tags in replay_start still work 20090724 16:56:48-!- Chusslove [n=Chusslov@brsg-d9bee7af.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 16:58:58-!- Noyga [n=lame-z@wesnoth/developer/noyga] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 16:59:47-!- euschn [n=chatzill@wesnoth/developer/euschn] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060309]"] 20090724 17:08:04-!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-177-212.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 17:11:34< Ivanovic> off for the evening, cu tomorrow 20090724 17:12:30-!- cornmander [n=cornmand@cornmander.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 17:12:35-!- cornmander is now known as corn 20090724 17:14:48-!- kitty_ [n=kitty@wesnoth/artist/kitty] has quit ["bye"] 20090724 17:28:37-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 17:36:06-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20090724 17:49:40-!- EdB [n=edb@93.12.95-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 18:05:36-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 18:09:14-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 64 bugs, 238 feature requests, 12 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org 20090724 18:12:02-!- Kenpachi [n=chatzill@CPE-121-220-159-32.sa.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20090724 18:19:10-!- EdB [n=edb@93.12.95-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20090724 18:23:54-!- boucman [n=rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 18:23:58-!- ancestral [n=ancestra@97-116-106-168.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 18:24:05< boucman> hey all 20090724 18:24:10< Crab_> hi boucman 20090724 18:27:39< ilor> fun fact: I implemented a disable server rng switch today, and when playing on a fast server (like localhost ;) ) the theoretically more laggy version that queries the server feels faster when comparing two wesnoth windows side by side 20090724 18:28:30< ilor> because the "old" version sends attack info after the attack anim finishes 20090724 19:02:41-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [] 20090724 19:07:30-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit ["leaving"] 20090724 19:11:08-!- ABCD_ [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 19:11:39-!- ABCD [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20090724 19:20:19-!- grzywacz [n=grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 19:28:36-!- Aethaeryn [n=Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20090724 19:28:45-!- Aethaeryn [n=Michael@c-98-204-170-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #Wesnoth-dev 20090724 19:33:42-!- Aethaeryn [n=Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Client Quit] 20090724 19:36:28-!- Aethaeryn [n=Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #Wesnoth-dev 20090724 19:41:15-!- Crab_ [n=Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20090724 19:41:28-!- Crab_ [n=Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 19:45:05-!- Elvish_Pillage2 [n=eli@71-10-231-36.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 19:48:22< Soliton> stikonas: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13986 is now fixed, yes? 20090724 19:53:27< stikonas> Soliton: yes 20090724 19:53:43< stikonas> I've just checked, website was regenerated 20090724 19:54:53-!- Blueblaze [n=irchon@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 19:55:07-!- allefant_ is now known as elias 20090724 19:58:21< elias> Soliton: do you know if there's a gettext binary which could be used for translation lookup? 20090724 19:58:52< elias> if so it might save some CPU doing that instead of parsing the .po files :) 20090724 19:59:09< elias> and also prevent other similar bugs 20090724 19:59:25-!- Blueblaze [n=irchon@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20090724 19:59:40-!- Blueblaze [n=nick@c-98-199-143-139.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 20:01:45-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-231-36.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20090724 20:07:02< stikonas> elias: can't you use gettext functions directly? 20090724 20:07:39< elias> probably 20090724 20:07:54< stikonas> there is perl-gettext module 20090724 20:08:13< elias> yeah, so that would be the way to go 20090724 20:08:44< stikonas> are all strings in wesnoth-unit textdomain? 20090724 20:08:49< elias> no 20090724 20:09:08< Chusslove> elias: Python alone ought to be enough. E.g. 20090724 20:09:11< stikonas> this may make things harder 20090724 20:09:17< elias> the parser attaches a domain to each string 20090724 20:09:19< Chusslove> http://websvn.kde.org/*checkout*/trunk/KDE/kdeedu/step/step/data/extractxml 20090724 20:09:46< Chusslove> That's one script that does some XML extraction/translation, but the function open_mo_file() seems to be the key. 20090724 20:10:39< Chusslove> (It's a light wrapper around Python's standard library Gettext functionality, as far as I can judge.) 20090724 20:12:20-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20090724 20:19:28-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 20:25:45-!- silene [n=plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 20:35:44-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 20:45:57-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-231-36.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 20:51:39-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@79.139.136.93] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 20:52:24-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.136.93] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 20:58:29-!- Sapient [n=patrickp@wesnoth/developer/sapient] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20090724 21:02:16-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20090724 21:02:19-!- Elvish_Pillage2 [n=eli@71-10-231-36.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20090724 21:09:14-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 21:20:45-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net/"] 20090724 21:21:07-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@wesnoth/bot/loonybot] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20090724 21:24:48< Crab_> boucman: I'm now testing my ai configuration changes & fixing bugs. I expect that it'll be ready for 'proofreading before commit' tomorrow. 20090724 21:26:39< boucman> ok, cool 20090724 21:26:47< boucman> I should be around more or less all day tomorow 20090724 21:29:38-!- stikonas [n=and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20090724 21:30:20< Crab_> that's good. the part that will need most proofreading is rather small (~300 lines, new version of src/ai/configuration.cpp that does 'read the config, upgrade it to new style if necessary, mix in default values for aspects from WML, return prepared config' part) 20090724 21:32:17-!- stikonas [n=and@ctv-79-132-177-212.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 21:33:52-!- Turuk_ [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 21:34:19-!- Crab_ [n=Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20090724 21:36:43< shadowmaster> esr: I suppose you didn't read my messages, did you? 20090724 21:37:43-!- Crab_ [n=Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 21:42:04-!- Turuk [n=Turuk@wesnoth/forumsith/turuk] has quit [Connection timed out] 20090724 21:43:39< esr> shadowmaster: Er, which ones? I've been following the lore and writing threads closely. 20090724 21:44:05< shadowmaster> esr: the ones regarding a certain patch and commit. 20090724 21:44:20< esr> No idea what you're talking about. 20090724 21:44:25< shadowmaster> http://wesnoth.debian.net/%23wesnoth-dev-2009-07-24.log 20090724 21:44:27< shadowmaster> 09:40 20090724 21:45:18< esr> Nope, missed that one completely. 20090724 21:45:36< esr> Is there some reason I need to be the person to fix it? 20090724 21:46:20< shadowmaster> well, you applied the patch. I just wanted to bring it to your attention. 20090724 21:46:37< shadowmaster> (so next time you apply patches you make sure they don't introduce stuff like this in the wrong places) 20090724 21:47:01< esr> What file is then misplaced name in? 20090724 21:47:26< esr> I need to know what's wrong and how to do it right. 20090724 21:47:51< shadowmaster> "introduces an author name that should be in the Contributors section, instead of at the end of Programming which is reserved for those with read/write access [...]" . I thought it was obvious that I was taking about about.cfg, sorry 20090724 21:49:27< esr> Looking. 20090724 21:50:42< esr> Which obne is it, Michael Flowers? 20090724 21:50:53< shadowmaster> yeah 20090724 21:51:06< shadowmaster> You know the guy right above him is an actual develoepr ;) 20090724 21:52:30< shadowmaster> MJ999: so, are you the author of patch #1183 (Prevent teleporting to impassable terrain) ? :) 20090724 21:52:53< esr> OK, I'll be watchful for this sort of thing in future patches. 20090724 21:53:11< esr> (That was a good patch!) 20090724 21:55:08< zookeeper> also i'd have imagined that "Programming" was for the programmers, not for anyone with commit access. 20090724 21:55:31-!- ABCD [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 21:56:23< esr> I haven't thought about those distinction much. 20090724 21:56:24-!- ABCD_ [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20090724 21:56:58< shadowmaster> yes, IMHO "Programming" and "Miscellaneous Contributors" aren't very well chosen names 20090724 21:57:10-!- Sirp [i=97c1dc1d@wesnoth/developer/dave] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 21:57:31< shadowmaster> (why isn't wesbot in the latter? it also contributes back to the project, albeit in a completely different manner) 20090724 22:07:10< Polarina> shadowmaster: Perhaps when it's integrated into the MP lobby. 20090724 22:07:35< shadowmaster> MP players don't need to know about bugs, patches or features. 20090724 22:07:54< shadowmaster> or rather, they shouldn't. They'd be even more annoying about it. 20090724 22:08:11< stikonas> s/Programming/Developers/ Maybe this is better? 20090724 22:08:36< shadowmaster> the obvious choice, yes. Make me suspect why it wasn't called like that since the beginning? 20090724 22:09:40-!- CIA-63 [n=CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [Client Quit] 20090724 22:09:57-!- silene [n=plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20090724 22:11:53-!- allefant [n=allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 22:12:36< shadowmaster> :unit advances=2 made Wesnoth abort due to using it on a L3 unit with no more advancements besides AMLA 20090724 22:19:14-!- elias [n=allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20090724 22:25:05-!- CIA-62 [n=CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 22:26:23-!- silene [n=plouf@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-55-179.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 22:27:16< Crab_> shadowmaster: it worked before. I've tested it using something like :unit advances=100 . how to reproduce ? 20090724 22:27:38< shadowmaster> I just started HttT 1, leveled up Konrad using :unit advances=2 and then tried it again 20090724 22:28:32< shadowmaster> it also reproduces if you just apply :unit advances=2 on the Silver Mage of the test scenario 20090724 22:29:20< shadowmaster> (I just added it to help.cfg, btw) 20090724 22:29:31< Crab_> ok, reproduced. I'll see what's going on 20090724 22:58:09-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 22:59:14< Crab_> shadowmaster: ok, I spotted a problem. it seems that the code messes with 'location of the unit which advances' in a following way: 1) pass location (which is part of unit_map::iterator) by reference, 2) find a unit_map::iterator by this location, 3) remove that iterator, invalidating the reference to location 4) complain that the location is invalid. 20090724 22:59:45< Crab_> shadowmaster: it was introduced by r36979 20090724 22:59:48< MJ999> shadowmaster: Yes. 20090724 23:00:04< shadowmaster> unit_map isn't designed for non-invalidating removal of elements, right? :) 20090724 23:00:22< shadowmaster> MJ999: your patch included your name in the Programming section. We moved it to Miscellaneous Contributors 20090724 23:00:50< Crab_> shadowmaster: unit_map is ok, but it just supposed that the location which is passed to replace_unit will not be invalidated by the deletion of a unit 20090724 23:01:31< MJ999> shadowmaster: That's fine. I thought it was the right spot, and I read to add my name to that list. Thanks for fixing it though. 20090724 23:02:13< shadowmaster> MJ999: yeah, apparently the wiki page on it isn't clear enough. I'll change that 20090724 23:02:18< Crab_> shadowmaster: this, for example, fixes it - http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m1e4e9ffe , by reverting part of r36979. but, maybe, it's the unit map that should be fixed instead. 20090724 23:02:45< Crab_> silene: ^ 20090724 23:04:31< silene> that's quite ugly, the caller should be fixed imho 20090724 23:05:02< Crab_> silene: but, maybe, fix unit_map::replace ? 20090724 23:05:05-!- ABCD_ [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 23:05:12-!- ABCD [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has quit [Client Quit] 20090724 23:05:31< silene> sorry, i don't have right now to take a look at the code 20090724 23:05:35< silene> +time 20090724 23:05:48-!- Noyga [n=lame-z@wesnoth/developer/noyga] has quit ["Quitte"] 20090724 23:06:25< Crab_> silene: ok 20090724 23:10:28-!- ABCD [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 23:11:43-!- ABCD_ [n=ABCD@wikipedia/ABCD] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20090724 23:13:35< shadowmaster> I'll submit a bug report for either of you 20090724 23:16:16-!- busfahrer [n=busfahre@unixboard/user/busfahrer] has quit ["leaving"] 20090724 23:18:13< Crab_> shadowmaster: ok (through this is not necessary). I'm testing another patch atm, then I'll show it to someone, and then I'll commit it. 20090724 23:19:00< shadowmaster> Crab_: are oyou sure it's not necessary? 20090724 23:19:41< shadowmaster> (I'd be glad to not have to write the long blah blah blah involved that's usually required but rarely neD[D[D[D[D[4~[4~[4~[4~[4~[4~[4~[4~eded) 20090724 23:20:30< shadowmaster> SSH lags have interesting effects on irssi. 20090724 23:20:40< Crab_> shadowmaster: do as you desire :) but, that bug was introduced only a week ago :) 20090724 23:21:30< Crab_> it is present in 1.7.2, through 20090724 23:23:49< Crab_> boucman: can you review an out-of-band 5-line patch ? http://pastebin.mozilla.org/664347 20090724 23:24:05 * boucman clicks 20090724 23:24:54< boucman> Crab_: at first (naïve) look, what's the point ? 20090724 23:25:19< shadowmaster> Crab_: https://gna.org/bugs/?14014 so you can put a long changelog entry about it 20090724 23:25:22< shadowmaster> ;) 20090724 23:25:22< Crab_> when 'l' is the reference to map_location that is part of that unit iterator which is to be deleted by erase, 'l' is invalidated 20090724 23:26:11< ilor> Crab_: I'd say add a comment to that effect 20090724 23:26:12< boucman> and thus you can't add it back 20090724 23:26:13< boucman> ok 20090724 23:27:03< Crab_> ilor: well, of course, I can add that comment and fix all the callers. but this will mean that this bug will resurface. 20090724 23:27:03< shadowmaster> boucman: I've been trying to contact you for days :( 20090724 23:27:17< shadowmaster> boucman: https://gna.org/bugs/?13967 20090724 23:27:25< ilor> Crab_: I mean add a comment expaling that this is why you make a copy :) 20090724 23:27:31< Crab_> ok 20090724 23:27:32< ilor> *explaining 20090724 23:27:39< Crab_> I agree 20090724 23:27:59< boucman> shadowmaster: actually,I had noticed, but hadn't had time to assign it to myself yet 20090724 23:28:08< boucman> I plan to fix it tomorow if I find time 20090724 23:28:12< shadowmaster> ah, okay. 20090724 23:28:42< boucman> Crab_: not much to say about the patch, (except what ilor just said) 20090724 23:29:03< Crab_> ok. I'll add that comment and commit it. 20090724 23:29:31-!- Sirp [i=97c1dc1d@wesnoth/developer/dave] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 20090724 23:30:18< Crab_> boucman: should it be backported to branches/1.6 ? 20090724 23:30:47< boucman> Crab_: yes, no interface change and trivial 20090724 23:30:53< Crab_> ok 20090724 23:30:53< boucman> and little chance of regressions 20090724 23:34:13< ilor> and some chance of preventing some subltle UB nobody noticed yet :) 20090724 23:48:51< CIA-62> crab * r37221 /trunk/src/unit_map.cpp: 20090724 23:48:51< CIA-62> Fixed problem with unit_map::replace - when its map_location parameter 'l' is 20090724 23:48:51< CIA-62> the reference to map_location that is part of that unit iterator which is to be 20090724 23:48:51< CIA-62> deleted by erase (1st part of unit_map::replace), 'l' is invalidated, so adding 20090724 23:48:51< CIA-62> unit at 'l' (2nd part of unit_map::replace) fails. Fixed by making a copy of the 20090724 23:48:54< CIA-62> locationinside unit_map::replace (fixes bug #14014) 20090724 23:50:16-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20090724 23:51:17< Crab_> shadowmaster: thanks for spotting the bug 20090724 23:51:41< shadowmaster> np, I was just testing whether it worked like the help entry I was writing said it worked 20090724 23:56:01-!- loonybot [n=loonybot@79.139.136.93] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 23:56:43-!- loonycyborg [n=sergey@79.139.136.93] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20090724 23:59:42-!- thespaceinvader [n=chatzill@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has quit ["night all"] --- Log closed Sat Jul 25 00:00:43 2009