--- Log opened Sat Jul 04 00:00:36 2009
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20090704 05:17:24< Aethaeryn> the log villages look like prison camps
20090704 05:17:39< Aethaeryn> not to say that it's a bad thing, just really reminds me of WWII Nazi prison camps
20090704 05:17:51< Aethaeryn> (At least, Holywood style)
20090704 05:42:02< nickbp> someones been watching too many nazi movies
20090704 05:42:09< nickbp> ;)
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20090704 07:00:43< Aethaeryn> anyone want to play the latest Thunderstone? This will probably be the last pre-vehicle test
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20090704 10:05:58< Ivanovic> moin
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20090704 15:30:26< VurtualRuler98> Carp? Get out the marksdwarves.
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20090704 19:01:16< Woodmouse> #wesnoth-lol-spam
20090704 19:02:08< Woodmouse> thanks haha
20090704 19:02:13< pf2222> lo
20090704 19:02:13< Woodmouse> oos
20090704 19:02:15< Woodmouse> *oops
20090704 19:02:17< pf2222> *lol
20090704 19:02:17< Woodmouse> lol
20090704 19:02:19< Woodmouse> lol
20090704 19:02:22< pf2222> lol
20090704 19:02:26< Woodmouse> #wesnoth-lol-spam
20090704 19:02:30< Woodmouse> xD
20090704 19:02:32< pf2222> leeeeeolollolololollol.
20090704 19:02:34< pf2222> XD
20090704 19:02:35< pf2222> xD
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20090704 20:25:49< Aethaeryn> Anyone interested in working on the wiki's multiplayer strategy guide?
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20090704 20:36:53< Aethaeryn> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26123
20090704 20:37:00< Polarina> Is multiplayer strategy that complex to deserve a whole wiki article?
20090704 20:37:25< Blueblaze> Yeah it is
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20090704 20:38:40< Polarina> o.O
20090704 20:38:53< Aethaeryn> Yes. Every single matchup merits a different playstyle.
20090704 20:39:15< Aethaeryn> Even though it's possible to play laregly consistant, things like undead v. undead or undead v. drakes will shake up your otherwise-normal playing.
20090704 20:39:36< Blueblaze> Polarina: It is possible to write an entire article on every MP map
20090704 20:39:48< Aethaeryn> Agreed.
20090704 20:40:33< Aethaeryn> Though I prefer Hamlets and Weldyn channel, the other 2p maps play radically different.
20090704 20:40:34< Polarina> I wonder if it's possible to write a whole article about me.
20090704 20:40:53< Aethaeryn> Some have three fronts, some are much larger, some even have one water and one land front (Fallenstar Lake)
20090704 20:41:47-!- ancestral [n=ancestra@97-116-127-39.mpls.qwest.net] has quit ["And that’s the end of THAT chapter."]
20090704 20:41:50< Aethaeryn> I could probably write a whole article about some major people in Wesnoth, such as Dave or Jetryl.
20090704 20:42:02< Aethaeryn> Merely because they've been around so long and worked on a lot of stuff.
20090704 20:42:17< Aethaeryn> But WINW (Wesnoth is not Wikipedia)
20090704 20:42:38< Aethaeryn> I see the wiki as online documentation that simply can go much more in depth than the help file.
20090704 20:42:52< Woodmouse> lol
20090704 20:43:13< Woodmouse> WINS
20090704 20:43:20< Woodmouse> Wesnoth Is Not Stupid
20090704 20:43:22< Woodmouse> :D
20090704 20:43:25< Woodmouse> (lol)
20090704 20:43:42< Blueblaze> Polarina: It is possible to write an entie book about you :z
20090704 20:43:54< Polarina> Blueblaze: No s***.
20090704 20:44:11< pf2222> lol woody
20090704 20:44:54< pf2222> WINE = Wesnoth Is Not an Emulator
20090704 20:44:59< Woodmouse> LOL
20090704 20:45:31< pf2222> yeah I got that from WINE = WINE Is Not an Emulator whatever
20090704 20:48:36< Woodmouse> WINC = Wesnoth Is Not Crap
20090704 20:48:47< Woodmouse> WINS = Wesnoth Is Not Soft
20090704 20:48:54< Woodmouse> WINH = Wesnoth Is Not Hard
20090704 20:49:09< Woodmouse> that last one isn't correct, though, some mainline campaigns are hard
20090704 20:50:45< Tomsik> Wesnoth Eternally Satisfies Not Only These Hipsters
20090704 20:51:57< Woodmouse> lol
20090704 20:52:02< pf2222> Hipsters?
20090704 20:53:10< Tomsik> hippies maybe
20090704 20:53:17< Tomsik> humans
20090704 20:53:18< Tomsik> whatever :p
20090704 20:53:41< Woodmouse> lol
20090704 20:53:48< Woodmouse> Aliens playing Wesnoth... xD
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20090704 20:55:35< pf2222> NUEEDO!
20090704 20:55:48< shadowmaster> what does that mean?
20090704 20:55:56< pf2222> it means hi
20090704 20:56:08< Woodmouse> yea
20090704 20:56:11< Woodmouse> NUEEDO!
20090704 20:56:12< shadowmaster> also, I must say I'm not surprised that Woodmouse foolishly attempted to flood someone else somewhere else and got killed by the ircd
20090704 20:56:36< shadowmaster> avoid shouting, btw.
20090704 20:56:50< Woodmouse> xD It was in #wesnoth-lol-spam and I just typed AAAAAA like... million As. xD
20090704 20:57:09< pf2222> well, the word is supposed to be capitalized... and with an exclamation mark. xD
20090704 20:57:26< Woodmouse> yea
20090704 20:57:28< Woodmouse> xD
20090704 20:57:47< shadowmaster> I suppose you already learned your lesson then. Not even the server likes spammers.
20090704 20:58:26< Aethaeryn> < Tomsik> Wesnoth Eternally Satisfies Not Only These Hipsters <- Hippos works better.
20090704 20:58:49< Woodmouse> LOL! Hippos playing Wesnoth. xD
20090704 20:59:14< pf2222> Water horses..
20090704 20:59:26< Aethaeryn> Wesnotwh?
20090704 20:59:39< Woodmouse> lol
20090704 20:59:53< Woodmouse> Wesnoth Eternally Satisfies Not Only These Hats
20090704 20:59:55< Aethaeryn> Woodmouse: When Chuck Norris was young, he played hungry, hungry hippos with real hippos.
20090704 20:59:55< Woodmouse> :o
20090704 21:00:02< Woodmouse> lol
20090704 21:00:15< Tomsik> Wesnoth exists splendidly never ogling through heavens, whatever :p
20090704 21:01:01< Aethaeryn> That original motto (it) seems is (more) killer?
20090704 21:02:01< Woodmouse> WIP = Wesnoth Is Pwnzor
20090704 21:02:26< shadowmaster> WIP : Work In Progress, you fool.
20090704 21:02:57< Woodmouse> yea, but it's also Wesnoth Is Pwnzor now. xD
20090704 21:03:00< Aethaeryn> What obnoxious orangatang does my other underwater squid envy?
20090704 21:03:22-!- ancestral [n=ancestra@97-116-127-39.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth
20090704 21:03:50< pf2222> Happy Insane People Patenting Only Patentable Oven Things And More Upper Stuff.
20090704 21:04:03< Woodmouse> lol
20090704 21:04:21< pf2222> hippopotamus.
20090704 21:06:16< Aethaeryn> Players feign to too, too two
20090704 21:06:29< Aethaeryn> (At least I tried...)
20090704 21:07:20< Woodmouse> WPESHTWBTBGE = Wesnoth Pawns Everything So Hard That Wesnoth Becomes The Best Game Ever
20090704 21:07:23< Woodmouse> lol
20090704 21:08:47< Aethaeryn> I have a good one...
20090704 21:08:52< Aethaeryn> Fail Acronym Is Lame
20090704 21:09:08< Woodmouse> lol
20090704 21:09:11< Aethaeryn> It's a recursive backronym
20090704 21:09:11< Polarina> lol
20090704 21:09:14< Aethaeryn> I've upped the game
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20090704 21:56:28-!- mode/#wesnoth [+o shadowmaster] by ChanServ
20090704 21:56:32-!- mode/#wesnoth [+z] by shadowmaster
20090704 21:56:35-!- mode/#wesnoth [-o shadowmaster] by ChanServ
20090704 21:56:39< Woodmouse> What's +z?
20090704 21:57:09< ancestral> Woodmouse: In regards to what?
20090704 21:57:25< Woodmouse> ...well, Shadowmaster gor +z.
20090704 21:57:28< Woodmouse> *got
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20090704 21:59:08< pf2222> (02:56:31 PM) mode (+z ) by shadowmaster
20090704 22:02:33-!- mordocai [n=Administ@66.119.9.243] has joined #wesnoth
20090704 22:03:07< mordocai> Does anyone know if there is a list anywhere of all/most of the units, and what traits it is possible for each to get? Percentages would be helpful as well...
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20090704 22:06:47< ancestral> Mordocai: try http://units.wesnoth.org
20090704 22:08:17< Soliton> the manual mentions what units get what traits.
20090704 22:08:33< mordocai> Okay, did not check there. I did check the unit database though.
20090704 22:08:52< Soliton> what's the unit database?
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20090704 22:09:23< mordocai> The site ancestral linked.
20090704 22:10:12< ancestral> mordocai: If you're looking for traits that get applied to units you might need to search the wiki
20090704 22:10:29< ancestral> i.e. intelligent, strong, dextrous, etc.
20090704 22:10:57-!- mode/#wesnoth [-z] by ChanServ
20090704 22:11:11< Tomsik> what's -z?
20090704 22:11:21< mordocai> ancestral: Okay. Yeah, i'm looking for something like "Elivish Archer: Can receive Dextrous, Strong, Quick, Intelligent. Has <insert % here> chance of getting Dextrous, <insert % here> of getting strong, exc"
20090704 22:11:35< mordocai> ancestral: etc*
20090704 22:11:35< Soliton> the absence of +z.
20090704 22:11:58< pf2222> ........
20090704 22:12:26< Soliton> mordocai: chances of getting traits are always equal.
20090704 22:12:30< ancestral> mordocai: hmm, I thought all of them were possible for any given unit, each with an equal chance of showing up…
20090704 22:13:19< mordocai> Soliton:ancestral: Okay, i wasn't sure cause it appears to me that some show up more often than usual... but that's me... i see patterns where there is only randomness quite often...
20090704 22:13:35< Soliton> it's human nature.
20090704 22:13:40< evilshadowmaster> +z: ops can see messages from unauthorized users; -z: the normal state
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20090704 22:13:56< evilshadowmaster> unauthorized standing for users in the +b list, or who aren't +v when the channel is +m
20090704 22:14:04 * mordocai has an itch to look for where traits are chosen in the source code.
20090704 22:14:26< Soliton> units.cpp i guess.
20090704 22:14:37< Soliton> unit.cpp*
20090704 22:15:14< ancestral> I don't see it there
20090704 22:15:28< ancestral> Oh wait, wrong file
20090704 22:17:33< ancestral> Maybe ~ line 663
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20090704 22:19:18< mordocai> I'm reading it online so i don't have line numbers... but do you mean where it has void unit::generate_traits etc... cause i think that's it... working through it now.
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20090704 22:20:41< ancestral> I don't think they're labeled in src, in case you might be looking for the names. 
20090704 22:21:19< mordocai> I wouldn't think they would be... since they are probably drawn from the translation files... but  i'm just seeing if it's random. Which it appears to be completely random...
20090704 22:23:01< mordocai> I'd say it's this part... and it looks random. (I'm a very novice programmer... not cut out for something this big yet lol... plan on learning more though) http://pastebin.com/m144e7259
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20090704 22:25:17< mordocai> Soliton: Oh and i wasn't doubting your word... i just thought it'd be fun to go on a "scavenger hunt" so to speak... lol.
20090704 22:26:00< Soliton> oh, no worries. that's why wesnoth is open source. :-)
20090704 22:26:55< mordocai> Yeah, i hope to become a developer for it eventually... just don't have the programming skill yet. I only know the basics.
20090704 22:29:53< Woodmouse> DUEEGO!
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20090704 22:30:23< pf2222> mehg
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20090704 22:30:34< ancestral> mordocai: it's the kind of skills you have to keep up. I have a CS degree but I'm so out of practice now since my job is largely unrelated to programming
20090704 22:31:26< mordocai> ancestral: Yeah. I'm only 17 and am going to college for CS soon... just graduated high school. And unemployed unfortuanately lol... can't' seem to find a job anywhere right now.
20090704 22:31:38< cib0> mordocai: i think if you want to understand code in a project such as wesnoth, most comes from reading. if you understand the basic stuff about C++(which can get pretty hard, actually), the best way to write/fix wesnoth code is having read loads of wesnoth code
20090704 22:32:11< ancestral> Wesnoth code is not easy to read "out of the box" in my opinion
20090704 22:32:30< cib0> ancestral: yup, but you have to start somehwere =)
20090704 22:32:36< ancestral> C++ and Java are good languages to learn, and if you haven't learned them, you will in school
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20090704 22:33:23< mordocai> Yeah. I mean, they seem to have good comments... but i'll have to figure out what conventions they are using and learn a bit more C++. I've taught myself what C++ i know... which isn't much. I'm up to pointers and polymorphism, overloading, etc. However, i don't even know what a vector is... and wesnoth seems to use them a lot.
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20090704 22:33:57< Soliton> just a dynamic array basically.
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20090704 22:34:39< mordocai> Dang... i spent a few hours making my own dynamic array the other day... 
20090704 22:34:50< mordocai> I should read before i do that kind of stuff lol
20090704 22:35:21< Soliton> http://www.cplusplus.com/
20090704 22:35:33< cib0> mordocai: if you really understand the pointer/reference stuff, congrats =) i remember messing up that stuff badly
20090704 22:35:36< Soliton> good as reference for the STl as well IMO.
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20090704 22:36:15< mordocai> Soliton: Yeah, that's something i need to research more...
20090704 22:36:32< mordocai> cib0: I think i do... but who knows. I haven't put it into practice too  much yet.
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20090704 22:37:18< cib0> also, it's never a bad idea to go and try to do stuff yourself, i guess.. that's what programmers do.
20090704 22:37:24< Soliton> just know that there are quite some data structures and algorithms available in the STL so if you need something you could look there first before implementing your own version.
20090704 22:38:11< Polarina> Soliton: But that's a poor site to learn C++
20090704 22:38:36< Soliton> why's that?
20090704 22:39:51< Polarina> Soliton: Ask in ##C++, they know better than I do.
20090704 22:40:11< evilshadowmaster> I sometimes wonder what's up with the people at ##<programming language> channels, though.
20090704 22:40:22< evilshadowmaster> I'd not say they are the best judges of whether something is good or bad.
20090704 22:40:30< Soliton> surely those don't need to learn c++..
20090704 22:40:53< cib0> that's a matter of opinion, shadowmaster
20090704 22:41:45< cib0> but i don't feel like joining that channel again.. ever.. or any ##<programming language> channel on that regard.. they seem to be kind of strict regarding the topic
20090704 22:42:06< Soliton> no questions about the weather?
20090704 22:42:28< evilshadowmaster> I've been at channels way stricter than that though.
20090704 22:42:39< mordocai> Well, IMHO everyone learns different... so you can't really go with what someone says about what to use to learn.
20090704 22:42:40< evilshadowmaster> s/'ve been/'m/
20090704 22:42:47< cib0> maybe.. but surely, HTML and CSS come from two different worlds and you should never talk about CSS when HTML is the topic..
20090704 22:43:07< evilshadowmaster> HTML is not a programming language, you fool!!
20090704 22:43:08< evilshadowmaster> ;)
20090704 22:43:14< cib0> :p
20090704 22:43:20< mordocai> definitely markup :P
20090704 22:43:38< cib0> ok, let's extend that to ##<technical stuff>
20090704 22:43:42< mordocai> I learned basic HTML in 6th grade... it's so easy. The basics anyway.
20090704 22:44:08< evilshadowmaster> "to learn is easy. to master, not."
20090704 22:44:27< mordocai> evilshadowmaster: Indeed.... sounds kind've like yoda...
20090704 22:44:51< cib0> knowing what HTML does can't be very hard.. using it well, can
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20090704 23:40:36< testing_xyz> how difficult is to create a map ?
20090704 23:40:54< Tomsik> Just a map? Easy :p
20090704 23:41:26< testing_xyz> map not a rectangle 
20090704 23:42:26< Soliton> impossible, maps have to be rectangles.
20090704 23:42:40< testing_xyz> i receive the error : map not a rectangle
20090704 23:43:07< Tomsik> yep
20090704 23:43:12< Tomsik> Maps have to be rectangles
20090704 23:43:38< Soliton> you can put off map terrain anywhere though.)
20090704 23:44:49< testing_xyz> ilegal character found in map 
20090704 23:46:49< testing_xyz> do i have to restart wesnoth for the changes i made to the map to take effect
20090704 23:46:53< testing_xyz> ?
20090704 23:47:02< Soliton> no.
20090704 23:47:41< testing_xyz> i think i have to
20090704 23:48:15< Soliton> you're free to do whatever you want.
20090704 23:48:43< testing_xyz> what do you mean ?
20090704 23:49:03< Soliton> usually what i say.
20090704 23:49:04< Ivanovic> create the map itself *only* using the editor integrated into the game
20090704 23:49:11< testing_xyz> i just get the same error , if i don't restart wesnoth
20090704 23:49:12< Ivanovic> do *NOT* work on it by hand!
20090704 23:49:28< Soliton> i think you can manage to make invalid maps with the editor.
20090704 23:49:50< testing_xyz> oh ! i've made the mistake to work it by hand 
20090704 23:49:52< Soliton> putting overlay somewhere it doesn't make sense or so.
20090704 23:50:18< Soliton> why do you write maps by hand?
20090704 23:51:31< testing_xyz> i've no idea 
20090704 23:51:40< Soliton> ah, that fits.
20090704 23:52:26< testing_xyz> i just can't understand what i am doing wrong 
20090704 23:52:43< Ivanovic> the maps are not *meant* to be edited by hand
20090704 23:52:45< Soliton> obviously, since you have no idea what you're doing.
20090704 23:52:55< Ivanovic> so there is exactly *zero* margin for errors
20090704 23:53:00< Soliton> very hard then to know what you're doing wrong.
20090704 23:53:14< Ivanovic> an accidental space/colon/... can break everything
20090704 23:53:26< testing_xyz> is the terrain Hh^Fp alowed ?
20090704 23:53:28< Ivanovic> so just use the ingame editor, it is easy enough to use it and get everythign done
20090704 23:53:57< Soliton> are you asking because wesnoth tells you it's not?
20090704 23:54:05< testing_xyz> i will use the ingame editor for the next map
20090704 23:55:26< testing_xyz> wesnoth tells invalid character, everything else is in order,
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20090704 23:55:48< Soliton> it tells you the invlaid character on stdout.
20090704 23:55:55< Soliton> invalid*
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20090704 23:57:19< testing_xyz> yep 
20090704 23:57:30< testing_xyz> the game map could not be loaded 
--- Log closed Sun Jul 05 00:00:45 2009