--- Log opened Wed Aug 19 00:00:50 2009
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20090819 02:32:32-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 77 bugs, 240 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090819 02:32:32-!- Topic set by Soliton [] [Tue Aug 18 00:10:51 2009]
20090819 02:32:32[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20090819 02:32:32[ ABCD     ] [ Blarumyrran    ] [ erl     ] [ kimrhh      ] [ shikadibot] [ xchat_sux] 
20090819 02:32:32[ Aethaeryn] [ CIA-62         ] [ esr     ] [ knotwork__  ] [ Sirp      ] [ yann     ] 
20090819 02:32:32[ AI0867   ] [ corn           ] [ ettin   ] [ lobby       ] [ Smar      ] 
20090819 02:32:32[ Amu_     ] [ crimson_penguin] [ fabi    ] [ Rhonda      ] [ Soliton   ] 
20090819 02:32:32[ AnMaster ] [ deekay         ] [ freim   ] [ rtfb        ] [ Tigge_    ] 
20090819 02:32:32[ BenUrban ] [ dfranke        ] [ Ivanovic] [ shadowmaster] [ wesbot    ] 
20090819 02:32:32-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 32 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 32 normal]
20090819 02:32:39-!- [anthony.freenode.net] #wesnoth-dev [freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
20090819 02:33:50-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20090819 02:41:14-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 77 bugs, 240 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090819 02:41:14-!- Topic set by Soliton [] [Tue Aug 18 00:10:51 2009]
20090819 02:41:14[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20090819 02:41:14[ ABCD     ] [ Blarumyrran    ] [ erl     ] [ kimrhh      ] [ shikadibot] [ xchat_sux] 
20090819 02:41:14[ Aethaeryn] [ CIA-62         ] [ esr     ] [ knotwork__  ] [ Sirp      ] [ yann     ] 
20090819 02:41:14[ AI0867   ] [ corn           ] [ ettin   ] [ lobby       ] [ Smar      ] 
20090819 02:41:14[ Amu_     ] [ crimson_penguin] [ fabi    ] [ Rhonda      ] [ Soliton   ] 
20090819 02:41:14[ AnMaster ] [ deekay         ] [ freim   ] [ rtfb        ] [ Tigge_    ] 
20090819 02:41:14[ BenUrban ] [ dfranke        ] [ Ivanovic] [ shadowmaster] [ wesbot    ] 
20090819 02:41:14-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 32 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 32 normal]
20090819 02:41:57-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20090819 03:57:01< corn> mordante (for when you get back): I implemented draw_line for the easy case of non-transparent lines on non-transparent surfaces, but I need to know what the intended behavior is for these cases to figure out what to do:
20090819 03:57:17< corn> 1. solid line on a completely transparent surface (alpha = 0)
20090819 03:57:27< corn> 2. transparent line on a completely transparent surface
20090819 03:57:58< corn> 3. transparent line on a semitransparent surface (alpha = 254 to 1)
20090819 03:58:33< corn> 4. transparent line on a solid surface
20090819 03:59:27 * shadowmaster notices a SSH client that has been disconnected for hours and still doesn't quit.
20090819 03:59:27< corn> my understanding is that for all cases you do dest_color = source_color * source_alpha + dest_color*dest alpha
20090819 04:00:03< corn> however sdl documentation says that blitting onto a completely transparent surface leaves the surface completely transparent
20090819 04:00:11< corn> also, what happens to dest_alpha?
20090819 04:12:26< corn> mordante: anyway, I wrote a small program for testing everything: http://pastebin.com/m21b17ed
20090819 04:14:27< corn> premultiply_alpha puts SDL surfaces with per-pixel alpha into a format compatible with cairo, and unpremultiply_alpha converts it back... I am not sure if the latter is necessary though
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20090819 04:18:01< corn> sorry, code is buged
20090819 04:23:16< corn> fixed: http://pastebin.com/m62507886
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20090819 04:25:44< shadowmaster> was the last pot-update ludicrously huge, or is it just that this connections sucks that much?
20090819 04:25:58< shadowmaster> s/(connection)s/$1/
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20090819 04:32:13< corn> I think it was pretty big
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20090819 04:38:11< shadowmaster> that's bad
20090819 04:39:06< shadowmaster> if it doesn't just get stuck, it crashes the router
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20090819 05:36:14< melinath> anyone know when I should expect the 1.7.3 linux package to come out?
20090819 05:36:55< melinath> (GNU/Linux)
20090819 05:37:09< melinath> ahem. Debian.
20090819 05:51:06< melinath> hmm. Well, debian supposedly has an experimental package out, but since the wesnoth-core file is still 1.7.2, the rest can't be installed. Odd.
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20090819 06:09:03< Aethaeryn> melinath: just compile it.
20090819 06:09:07< Aethaeryn> I've been compiling since 1.3
20090819 06:09:10< Aethaeryn> It really makes things easier.
20090819 06:10:13< melinath> aye aye
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20090819 06:30:08< Aethaeryn> who implemented the right-click thing?
20090819 06:30:14< Aethaeryn> It was probably the best thing to happen to Wesnoth MP.
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20090819 07:52:24< melinath> erg... compiled 1.7.3 and it overwrote 1.6.4
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20090819 08:36:52< zookeeper> silene, looks like another case of the delayed [endlevel] causing a problem: http://gna.org/bugs/?14153
20090819 08:37:20< zookeeper> (i'm not sure if you fixed that one already)
20090819 08:40:08< silene> yes, it's already fixed
20090819 08:42:34< zookeeper> all right, great
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20090819 09:11:08< melinath> wesbot: seen Turuk
20090819 09:11:09< wesbot> melinath: Person, who 3d 15h ago used nick Turuk, last spoke 5d 9h ago.  3d 15h ago as Turuk_ was here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
20090819 09:11:45-!- ilor [n=user@bxh245.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20090819 09:25:39< melinath> Soliton: updated Thrasher desc to use the correct unit name. http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=377647#p377647
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20090819 09:31:12< corn> ilor: can you give advice on adding things to replays?
20090819 09:31:40< ilor> corn: um. dive into replay.?pp ;)
20090819 09:31:51< corn> yep, looking at it now
20090819 09:32:20< ilor> corn: there's a bunch of functions that add a something-action to he replay
20090819 09:32:30< ilor> likely you want to ad a similar one
20090819 09:32:34< ilor> *add
20090819 09:33:46< corn> ok. my goal is to move upload_log information into the replay, so I should make a function that does add_command() and then whatever I need should go in that command?
20090819 09:34:18< ilor> probably, yeah
20090819 09:34:36< corn> no risk of side effects (my command child being read by something else...)
20090819 09:34:40< corn> ?
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20090819 09:37:24< YogiHH> hello
20090819 09:38:00< corn> hi
20090819 09:39:16< YogiHH> euschn: for tonights meeting i aim for 8:30. I might be a few minutes late if my children get inbetween, though :)
20090819 09:39:40< euschn> YogiHH: ok, ill be there
20090819 09:43:50< ilor> corn: I don't think so. You'll test it anyway, right? ;)
20090819 09:43:56< ilor> corn: bbl
20090819 09:43:57< corn> of course :)
20090819 09:44:00< corn> cya
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20090819 09:51:13< Soliton> crash on selecting a savegame with a (invalid?) utf8 name: http://nopaste.com/p/aKNDOCkQo
20090819 09:52:02< Soliton> (version 1.6)
20090819 09:53:56< YogiHH> anyone: There have been made some really nice suggestions by netzakh to improve the tutorial: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26550&start=15
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20090819 10:26:08< Ivanovic> moin
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20090819 11:04:05< mjs-de> moin
20090819 11:07:23< Valkier> No, that's moin.
20090819 11:07:29< Valkier> Get your own.
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20090819 12:04:07< CIA-62> soliton * r37945 /trunk/src/menu_events.cpp: 
20090819 12:04:07< CIA-62> removed :q alias for :quit
20090819 12:04:07< CIA-62> there is still :q! and it conflicts with the /q alias for /query
20090819 12:04:11< CIA-62> soliton * r37946 /trunk/data/core/units/drakes/ (Slasher.cfg Thrasher.cfg): updated the description with the correct name and renamed the file to match
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20090819 13:41:50< ilor_> Soliton: now let's hope no vi fanatics will notice the lack of :q ;)
20090819 13:45:52< Elvish_Pillager> Hmm. in a die event trigged by a [kill] tag, what's stored in x2, y2, and second_unit ?
20090819 13:52:20-!- fendrin [n=fabi@f050246205.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090819 13:55:21< Elvish_Pillager> huh, they're set to the same unit :o
20090819 13:55:34< Elvish_Pillager> at least x2 and y2
20090819 14:00:42 * loonycyborg never uses :q in gvim, prefering to close the window instead :P
20090819 14:04:21 * shadowmaster looks at loonycyborg as if he was weird
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20090819 14:05:13< Valkier> Go read the art forums now before my post opens up a shitstorm.
20090819 14:05:35< Valkier> I bet it's comin.
20090819 14:06:11< shadowmaster> nah, Turuk is not around so nobody is doing very active moderation
20090819 14:06:25< shadowmaster> shame on you for resurrecting a 2-months old post
20090819 14:06:45< Valkier> Only three of us ever used it anyways, and it made more sense than starting a new one.
20090819 14:06:47< Valkier> So thbbbt
20090819 14:08:12< Valkier> And it's more like a month and a week old..
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20090819 14:21:18-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 77 bugs, 240 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090819 14:21:18-!- Topic set by Soliton [] [Tue Aug 18 00:10:51 2009]
20090819 14:21:18[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20090819 14:21:18[ ABCD     ] [ corn           ] [ ettin   ] [ kimrhh     ] [ Rhonda      ] [ stikonas       ] 
20090819 14:21:18[ AI0867   ] [ Crab__         ] [ euschn  ] [ knotwork__ ] [ rtfb        ] [ thespaceinvader] 
20090819 14:21:18[ Amu_     ] [ deekay         ] [ fendrin ] [ lizard_r   ] [ shadowmaster] [ Tigge          ] 
20090819 14:21:18[ AnMaster ] [ elias          ] [ freim   ] [ lobby_     ] [ shikadibot  ] [ Valkier        ] 
20090819 14:21:18[ BenUrban ] [ Elvish_Pillager] [ ilor_   ] [ loonybot   ] [ Sirp        ] [ wesbot         ] 
20090819 14:21:18[ Chusslove] [ erl            ] [ Ivanovic] [ loonycyborg] [ Smar        ] [ yann           ] 
20090819 14:21:18[ CIA-62   ] [ esr            ] [ Kenpachi] [ mjs-de     ] [ Soliton     ] [ zookeeper      ] 
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20090819 14:21:26-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20090819 15:03:54< fendrin> Hello
20090819 15:04:27< Blarumyrran> Why, hello there!
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20090819 15:19:17< shadowmaster> where is [hide_units] documented in the wiki? (not for learning myself, but for linking from a post I'm writing)
20090819 15:20:15< shadowmaster> yes, that was a rethorical question if you are wondering. I know it isn't documented.
20090819 15:21:43< Soliton> http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/InterfaceActionsWML
20090819 15:22:12< shadowmaster> no, that is hide_unit. I was looking for hide_units which doesn't exist.
20090819 15:22:23< shadowmaster> I should have been llooking for hide_help which is documented and exists
20090819 15:23:20< shadowmaster> I'll add it to the WML tags sidebar (*tsk tsk*)
20090819 15:24:53< shadowmaster> ilor_: are you familiarized with the display code? or perhaps more specifically with whatever locks mouse actions while an animation is being played?
20090819 15:25:28< ilor_> shadowmaster: commands_disabled and commands_disabler perhaps
20090819 15:26:49< shadowmaster> do you think you could look into https://gna.org/bugs/?14154 (or point me to someone who can)?
20090819 15:27:48< Soliton> ah, i noticed that yesterday, too.
20090819 15:28:07< Soliton> mouse actions weren't disabled though but i was in browse mode.
20090819 15:28:33< Soliton> something seems to be setting browse_ and not resetting it.
20090819 15:32:08 * shadowmaster asks for permission to reindent game_events.cpp
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20090819 15:39:33< shadowmaster> ah, the indentation change (mess) was introduced by silene in r35005, apparently accidentally
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20090819 16:10:56< shadowmaster> thespaceinvader: what did Jetrel exactly say about giving Cloud Art Contributor status¡
20090819 16:11:00< shadowmaster> * ?
20090819 16:11:17< thespaceinvader> he said he'd do it, but it wouldn't surprise me to find that he got sdistracted
20090819 16:11:24< thespaceinvader> i'm sure he wouldn't mind someone else doing it
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20090819 16:13:28< shadowmaster> thespaceinvader: done
20090819 16:13:37< thespaceinvader> thanks shadowmaster 
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20090819 16:46:04 * corn kicks CIA-62 
20090819 16:46:04< CIA-62> ow
20090819 16:46:45< corn> CIA is broken again
20090819 16:47:35< corn> Crab_: look at the latest revision I committed just now, I added a new add_log_event(std::string& key, std::string& var) function to make it very easy to add new upload_log variables
20090819 16:47:54< Crab_> corn: ok
20090819 16:48:04< Crab_> corn: r37947 ?
20090819 16:48:27< corn> yep
20090819 16:49:27< Soliton> zookeeper: anything odd with the WML to unstone the lich in trow:9?
20090819 16:49:53< Soliton> all stoned units got killed except the lich.
20090819 16:50:35< corn> I believe the correct terminology these days is petrified :p
20090819 16:50:37< shadowmaster> sounds like an engine bug.
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20090819 16:51:12< Crab_> corn: what if " replay::add_log_data(" is called 2+ times ?
20090819 16:51:14< Soliton> yeah, the unpetrify function looks harmless though.
20090819 16:51:20< shadowmaster> but apparently not even wesnoth dares to kill a lich
20090819 16:51:44< Crab_> corn: will it create 2+ "upload_log" child's ?
20090819 16:51:57< corn> Crab_: yep, but the code in read_replay is OK with that
20090819 16:52:11< shadowmaster> uum, maybe it's the code in the MODIFY_UNIT what is broken
20090819 16:52:32< shadowmaster> that one is intended to exclude the lich from a store_unit/unstore_unit sequence
20090819 16:52:58< Crab_> corn: but, "      if(c.child_count("upload_log")) {   game_->merge_with(c.child("upload_log"));   }" looks like 'handle 1 child only"
20090819 16:53:25< Soliton> but the lich is the only unit that gets stored and unstored afaict?
20090819 16:53:27< corn> Crab_: each upload_log child will have it's own [command] as well
20090819 16:53:48< Crab_> ok
20090819 16:53:50< corn> ex. there will never be [command][upload_log][/upload_log][upload_log][/upload_log][/command]
20090819 16:53:51< shadowmaster> Soliton: MODIFY_UNIT does a store/unstore sequence of its own
20090819 16:54:12< Soliton> ah, yeah looks like that is the problem then.
20090819 16:54:36< Soliton> who cares about upkeep anyway, they all die in a turn or two. ;-)
20090819 16:55:16< corn> Crab_: I can/should also code an add_upload_event(std::string &key, config &c); function
20090819 16:56:22-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 78 bugs, 240 feature requests, 10 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090819 16:56:54< Crab_> corn: yes, it'll be useful
20090819 16:57:49< Soliton> shadowmaster: shouldn't the MODIFY_UNIT macro also clear the MODIFY_UNIT_i variable?
20090819 16:58:30< shadowmaster> FOREACH does it
20090819 16:58:39< shadowmaster> well, NEXT actually
20090819 16:59:00< Soliton> NEXT knows when the loop ends?
20090819 16:59:34< Soliton> ah, that's how that looks, ok.
20090819 16:59:55< Soliton> well, anyway sounds like the MODIFY_UNIT macro is broken.
20090819 17:00:20< shadowmaster> it hasn't been modified lately though
20090819 17:00:57< shadowmaster> it appears that the [unstore_unit] is not taking place
20090819 17:07:38< Crab_> corn: I also suggest add_upload_event(const std::string &category, const std::string &key, const std::string &value )
20090819 17:08:00< Crab_> e.g. 'add_upload_event("ai_log","game_end_turn", end_turn);'
20090819 17:08:05 * shadowmaster is amazed at the side-effects of reverting a single commit.
20090819 17:08:24< zookeeper> Soliton, shadowmaster, yeah, i doubt MODIFY_UNIT would be broken. it's simple and hasn't been touched in ages.
20090819 17:09:02< shadowmaster> almost one year to be exact
20090819 17:09:57< Soliton> well, i didn't mean that there is something wrong in the macro per se but it obviously doesn't work like it should.
20090819 17:09:59< zookeeper> that recently, huh?
20090819 17:10:11< zookeeper> well, sounds like an engine bug
20090819 17:11:00< zookeeper> if the MODIFY_UNIT causes the problem then it should be pretty easy to figure out what's broken
20090819 17:16:00< Crab_> corn: will you do that ? or should I add that functions ?
20090819 17:16:24< shadowmaster> thespaceinvader: where did the ancient wose portrait come from?
20090819 17:16:38< thespaceinvader> me, shadowmaster 
20090819 17:16:41< thespaceinvader> why?
20090819 17:17:14< shadowmaster> ah, nothing. I just couldn't find the thread :P now I did.
20090819 17:17:46< CIA-62> cornmander * r37947 /trunk/src/ (game.cpp replay.cpp replay.hpp upload_log.cpp): Added a new add_log_event() function to record variables that should be put into the upload log. Changed --label code to use it.
20090819 17:18:02< CIA-62> cornmander * r37948 /trunk/src/text.cpp: Fixed a typo.
20090819 17:21:01< shadowmaster> that cloud guy is fast.
20090819 17:33:38< fendrin> hi shadowmaster: Was the caption attribute from story parts removed again?
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20090819 17:33:54< shadowmaster> it was not removed again. it was removed once.
20090819 17:34:00< shadowmaster> it did not exist before.
20090819 17:34:21< fendrin> shadowmaster: It existed in form of a "speaker" attribute that did the same.
20090819 17:34:31< shadowmaster> that doesn't count :p
20090819 17:34:35< fendrin> :-)
20090819 17:35:28< shadowmaster> see the changelog entry; there's a macro that does something similar now, although you have to append it manually. Bonus since it may be used in more places that allows Pango markup and don't have the [message] caption= facility
20090819 17:35:41< shadowmaster> *prepend
20090819 17:36:14< shadowmaster> oh, and it's not using that creepy shade of green now; it uses the standard caption shade of yellow
20090819 17:37:49< fendrin> Okay, going to convert that damn much story only scenario in that freak campaign.
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20090819 17:39:55< Sapient> yo
20090819 17:40:33< shadowmaster> hello there
20090819 17:41:51< Sapient> Elvish_Pillager: if a unit gets killed by WML, it seems likely to be the unit's own fault e.g. stepping on a trap. therefore I decided  x2,y2 should be the unit itself. I also considered the leader, but those aren't always available
20090819 17:42:19< Elvish_Pillager> Sapient: why not clear the variables?
20090819 17:42:48< Elvish_Pillager> or set the x2 and y2 to 0,0
20090819 17:42:54< Sapient> because there may be some death events that always assume a second unit
20090819 17:43:17< Elvish_Pillager> ...yeah, and that would be a bug in the WML
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20090819 17:44:07< Sapient> probably a lot of WML authors don't consider [kill] when they are writing their death events
20090819 17:44:30< Elvish_Pillager> the [kill] doesn't happen unless they also write it
20090819 17:44:42< Sapient> true
20090819 17:44:43< Crab_> Sapient: note that setting  x2,y2 to the unit FOO itself can interact with the event 'when unit FOO kills something' in a weird way
20090819 17:44:50< Elvish_Pillager> so it's their own fault when it messes up (which it probably will no matter what you set for second_unit)
20090819 17:45:27< Sapient> It makes sense to me... in the die event x2,y2 is the one who killed the unit
20090819 17:45:34< Elvish_Pillager> the reliance on second_unit will usually be something like [message] second_unit says "Ha ha!"
20090819 17:45:48< Elvish_Pillager> and then the unit will be saying "Ha ha I killed you" when you step on the trap :)
20090819 17:46:02< Sapient> it makes sense in a twisted kind of way
20090819 17:46:08< Elvish_Pillager> or giving experience to the second unit, under some circumstances
20090819 17:46:20< Elvish_Pillager> "I just got 24 XP for killing myself with a trap, and levelled up!"
20090819 17:46:25< Elvish_Pillager> that could happen...
20090819 17:46:25< Sapient> level up for killing yourself, lol
20090819 17:47:28< Sapient> it's not a bug, it's a feature!
20090819 17:48:16< Elvish_Pillager> of course, in my add-on, it's "You killed yourself because I blasted you with a lightning bolt"
20090819 17:48:49< Sapient> ah, right. I was reading about your add-on. sounds very interesting / fun
20090819 17:48:55< Elvish_Pillager> of course it's also easy to work around :)
20090819 17:49:41< Sapient> yeah, if it was painful to work around I might consider it a bug; as it is, I like it the way it is
20090819 17:50:07< Elvish_Pillager> Heh.
20090819 17:50:24< Elvish_Pillager> It's far from the worst weird behavior in WML
20090819 17:50:28< Sapient> you get a message which makes you have to consider that situation (if it doesn't make sense), or else pleasantly surprised (if it does make sense)
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20090819 17:50:39< Sapient> rather than a silent do nothing
20090819 17:50:40< Elvish_Pillager> hey, want to make negative radii in a SLF cause no locations to be stored?
20090819 17:51:10< Sapient> hmm.. what does it do currently?
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20090819 17:52:24< Elvish_Pillager> Sapient: I think it's ignored
20090819 17:53:35< Sapient> it probably gets set to zero (the default)
20090819 17:54:07< Sapient> ... or else casted into a huge positive number ... 
20090819 17:54:17< Elvish_Pillager> Heh.
20090819 17:54:37< Elvish_Pillager> it's hardly a vital feature, just an example of how WML has a bunch of corner cases that don't work how you'd expect them to.
20090819 17:54:50< Elvish_Pillager> IMO, reducing that number would be a good thing, but it's up to the devs to decide how to spend their time.
20090819 17:55:19< Sapient> I think storing 0 locations for negative radius is a sound idea
20090819 17:55:39< Elvish_Pillager> yeah, I relied on that behavior recently, and had to work around it :)
20090819 17:56:06< fendrin> zookeeper: [endlevel] result=continue_no_save is no longer working in trunk? But I can't find a note about that in the wiki.
20090819 17:56:22< shadowmaster> feel free to fix that.
20090819 17:56:51< shadowmaster> (though maybe silene should do it instead since he was who finally removed support for it)
20090819 17:56:57< Sapient> unfortunately, my ability to develop currently is kinda hindered by the nearly useless condition of my laptop
20090819 17:57:09< shadowmaster> Sapient: what's wrong with it?
20090819 17:57:29< Sapient> it was already pretty bad, but now it has bad sectors in the RAM
20090819 17:57:45< Sapient> so I get warnings about it every time I boot up and the occaisional crash
20090819 17:58:14< Sapient> not to mention, it's unbearably slow at doing anything beyond the most trivial tasks
20090819 17:58:15< shadowmaster> um, too bad you are using Windows. There's a linux kernel patch that allows to find a way around it if they aren't blocks used by the boot system
20090819 17:59:16< Sapient> I'm planning to get a new computer after I get a few potentially costly situations out of the way first
20090819 17:59:43< Sapient> anyways, cya later
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20090819 17:59:59< Elvish_Pillager> I got a new laptop a couple months ago
20090819 18:00:07< Elvish_Pillager> I like it because it means I can run Wesnoth at an acceptable speed
20090819 18:00:30< shadowmaster> I got a new laptop on December. I liked it because it could compile Wesnoth an an acceptable speed, even at -O3
20090819 18:01:06< shadowmaster> since two months ago approximately, I noticed Wesnoth's growth rate exceeded my expectations.
20090819 18:01:17< shadowmaster> s/since//;
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20090819 18:03:45< fendrin> shadowmaster: right, wesnoth compiles slower since tho month ago. Thought it was just my personal feeling.
20090819 18:05:26< Crab_> fendrin: I'm starting work on a framework to set 'scenario-wide' goals for AI. If you want, I can use some scenarios from LoW as 'test cases'. I'll need information about 'what AIs should want to do' in a particular scenario (we can pick one of the scenarios, for start)
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20090819 18:06:12< krzysz00> if i'm trying to force a 'make install' without the music will it work just to delete the music in the source
20090819 18:07:10< fendrin> Crab_: That sounds very good.
20090819 18:07:45< loonycyborg> krzysz00: Probably yes.
20090819 18:07:50< krzysz00> thanks
20090819 18:07:55< Crab_> fendrin: then, when you'll have time, pick one of the scenarios, we'll need to to discuss AI goals in it
20090819 18:08:14< fendrin> Crab_: scenario 3 for example has 2 enemy sides controlled by the ai. The southern one should scout all villages on his side of the river.
20090819 18:09:04< fendrin> Crab_: I couldn't bring him to even recruit enough scouts and if he didn't use it for scouting but did suicid it with the old ai.
20090819 18:09:36< Crab_> fendrin: so, you want the 'southern AI' to do some kind of 'land grab' ?
20090819 18:10:43< fendrin> Crab_: Yes
20090819 18:10:59< Crab_> fendrin: also, should 'southern AI' use a minimal amount of units to capture all villages, or should it bring enough troops to counter a possible counter-attack ?
20090819 18:11:14< fendrin> Crab_: The later.
20090819 18:11:56< Crab_> fendrin: so, basically, you want it to 'capture all southern-side villages en force, only then focus on elven stronghold' ?
20090819 18:12:35< fendrin> Crab_: Right.
20090819 18:13:16< fendrin> Crab_: I want to force the player to take core for the whole map. It's silly to just wait in the middle and look the ai trying to attack through the water.
20090819 18:13:22< fendrin> s/core/care
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20090819 18:14:41< Crab_> fendrin: ok, understood. I'll try to make that side behave like this, and report back in a few days
20090819 18:14:59< fendrin> Crab_: Great :-)
20090819 18:16:05< fendrin> Crab_: There is another issue in that scenario. The blue elve in the middle (an ally) does the same shit in the oposite direction. It suicides in the water or on the open grass instead of defending the woods or his castle. 
20090819 18:16:19< Crab_> fendrin: let's do it 'one side a time'
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20090819 18:17:05< fendrin> Crab_: okay
20090819 18:17:19< fendrin> I am off for an hour.
20090819 18:33:23< shadowmaster> is there anyone besides mordante here that could spot bigs in a GUI2 WML definition?
20090819 18:33:54< shadowmaster> bugs
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20090819 19:06:44< [Relic]> Hello :)
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20090819 19:42:20< shadowmaster> um, I'm getting outstanding lags
20090819 19:42:48< shadowmaster> and not on my laptop...
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20090819 19:43:36< mordante> sesrvus
20090819 19:44:04 * shadowmaster removes the extra 's'
20090819 19:44:17< mordante> thanks
20090819 19:44:25< mordante> typing is a skill, few master ;-)
20090819 19:44:38< Blarumyrran> ESRvus
20090819 19:47:31< shadowmaster> um. really outstanding lags.
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20090819 20:02:13< mordante> corn, I had a look at your demo, what should I see in it?
20090819 20:15:26< shadowmaster> mordante: have you finished eating the logs?
20090819 20:15:28< shadowmaster> reading
20090819 20:16:22< mordante> shadowmaster, yes
20090819 20:16:44< mordante> 1 sec
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20090819 20:17:22< shadowmaster> okay, do you think you could give me a hint of what may be causing an assertion ailure from a SDL wrapper with this GUI2 WML? http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/d7be53be7
20090819 20:17:43< shadowmaster> wesnoth: src/sdl_utils.cpp:278: surface scale_surface(const surface&, int, int, bool): Assertion `h >= 0' failed.
20090819 20:18:01< mordante> what's the assertion failure?
20090819 20:18:01< shadowmaster> IIRC from the full logs it was while drawing one of the ttoggle_buttons
20090819 20:18:20< shadowmaster> there you have it
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20090819 20:20:14< mordante> shadowmaster, what's the goal of the spacer?
20090819 20:20:54< shadowmaster> putting some space in middle of the "Gender" label and the first toggle_button?
20090819 20:21:31< shadowmaster> removing it doesn't help the assertio
20090819 20:22:28< mordante> I didn't expect that, but a spacer without fixed sizes gets size 0,0
20090819 20:22:45< shadowmaster> um, utterly useless then
20090819 20:22:53< mordante> exactly
20090819 20:23:16< mordante> I see nothing odd, is the code to reproduce the problem already in trunk?
20090819 20:23:37< shadowmaster> no, I haven't committed it for days in hope of fixing the problem before.
20090819 20:23:41< shadowmaster> do you want me to commit?
20090819 20:25:07< shadowmaster> (reminder: it's only enabled with --new-widgets)
20090819 20:26:40< mordante> it might make testing it easier, only I don't have much time tonight and it's pretty hot, but maybe later this week
20090819 20:27:17< shadowmaster> I'm dumb as a rock so I'll take it as a 'yes'
20090819 20:27:38< mordante> then you're smarter as a rock :-P
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20090819 20:32:40< shadowmaster> mordante: committed (CIAis not reporting commits atm)
20090819 20:32:48< shadowmaster> going home now, see you
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20090819 20:33:13< shadowmaster> (to reproduce, well, start with -t -d --new-widgets, right click anywhere and try to bring up the create unit dialog)
20090819 20:33:47< shadowmaster> (funny that I'd actually left-click, and still the right-handed order is stuck on me as a language)
20090819 20:34:23< fendrin> How can I disable the replay save?
20090819 20:34:34< mordante> bye shadowmaster 
20090819 20:35:16< grzywacz> hi
20090819 20:35:40< mordante> hi grzywacz 
20090819 20:37:16< fendrin> wesbot: seen Silene?
20090819 20:37:17< wesbot> fendrin: The person with the nick silene last spoke 11h 57m ago.  11h 37m ago they left with the message: "Leaving."
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20090819 20:46:44< Crab_> fendrin: played LoW:3 a few times to see the situation there (on hard). I'm wondering "why it might make sense to orcs to actually go for all those villages?" they have 960 gold combined, and two general options (ignoring the presence of Kalenz for the time being): 1) make it quick - just spend all gold to recruit, and go directly to kill the central elves as fast as possible 2) try to capture all villages first and then siege the elves.
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20090819 20:47:10< YogiHH> hello
20090819 20:48:04< mordante> hi YogiHH 
20090819 20:48:48< mordante> ilor_, I finished your gsoc evaluation 
20090819 20:57:57< fendrin> Crab_: The last test I had on that scenario was that the southern orc leader just shuffled around his keep for a few turns even when aggression and caution was adjusted. If you find a way to let the orcs attack the kalian efficiently that is as good as well. The orcs could try a storm on the castle first, if that doesn't succed until a specified time or some other event the ai is changed to go for the gold and do a longer siege. But I never 
20090819 20:57:58< fendrin> managed to adjust this kind of things with the old ai system.
20090819 20:59:14< corn> Crab_: I will do it
20090819 20:59:16< Crab_> fendrin: (on hard), imo, the most efficient way for the AI is to storm the castle with initial recruits. since with that amount of starting gold, unkeep brings them down even if they capture all the villages on the map
20090819 20:59:32< Crab_> corn: please also add (string,string,config) version
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20090819 21:00:15< corn> mordante: you can see certain things by changing settings: if the surface you are blitting the line onto is completely transparent, and you blit the line onto it, it does not match the SDL 'intended behavior' of making the line also completely transparent
20090819 21:00:15< Crab_> corn: see example usage (prototype, is not supposed to compile) - http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m1b82638a
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20090819 21:00:36< fendrin> Crab_: The high amount of money is only a placeholder for a better ai. I would like to reduce it.
20090819 21:01:01< fendrin> And the income per village can be adjusted as well.
20090819 21:02:09< Crab_> fendrin: well, with lower amount of orc money, it becomes advantageous for the central elves to storm out of the keep and meet the orcs in forest
20090819 21:02:15< fendrin> Crab_: If the orcs fail to archieve the victory quickly it's importend to them to hold the villages to prevent the elves from getting reenforcements as well.
20090819 21:02:59< corn> also, for some reason calling unpremultiply_alpha ruins the antialiasing on the line
20090819 21:03:00< Crab_> fendrin: if orcs fail to storm the keep, they'll be unable to keep the villages, as well. since all those villages are in forests..
20090819 21:03:17< Crab_> fendrin: so, they can sneak a scout or two to actually 'capture' them, yes
20090819 21:03:29< Crab_> fendrin: but it won't help in the long run..
20090819 21:03:46< Crab_> fendrin: ok, I'll try that 'orcs should storm the keep' version
20090819 21:04:11< Crab_> fendrin: btw, are the orcs aware that they win on 'turns run out' ?
20090819 21:04:32< CIA-62> shadowmaster * r37949 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): 
20090819 21:04:32< CIA-62> GUI2 debug mode unit-create dialog:
20090819 21:04:32< CIA-62> Added male/female toggle buttons, name generation toggle, listbox. The
20090819 21:04:32< CIA-62> listbox should get filled with unit types now. Basically all the dialog
20090819 21:04:32< CIA-62> works except for a SDL issue with a toggle button which causes an
20090819 21:04:32< CIA-62> assertion failure before being displayed.
20090819 21:05:30< fendrin> Crab_: yes, they have reenforcements arriving later. That is the reason given to the player when turns run out. They should know that.
20090819 21:06:59< Crab_> interesting
20090819 21:07:29< corn> mordante: it is probably a rounding error that causes the bad antialiasing when doing unpremultiply alpha - if you first multiply 255 * (1/255) where (1/255) is first compluted as a fraction, then you do result * (255/1) you will get an imprecise result
20090819 21:07:39< boucman> hey all
20090819 21:07:44< Crab_> hi boucman
20090819 21:07:47< corn> hi
20090819 21:07:48< fendrin> Crab_: Can you already tell the ai that it only needs to hold for a certain amount of turns?
20090819 21:07:54< boucman> Crab_: have you seen corn's killmap work ?
20090819 21:08:20< Crab_> fendrin: no, but I'm going to implement such awareness.
20090819 21:08:35< fendrin> Crab_: That is a very nice feature.
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20090819 21:08:46< Crab_> boucman: yes, but only 'old ones'
20090819 21:09:19< boucman> Crab_: in would be nice to have a "killmap" aspect to help AIs that are aware of it (this is of course a post-GSoC suggestion)
20090819 21:09:21< Crab_> fendrin: the reason I'm looking for 'particular scenarios' is that I don't know exactly what is needed from the AI in campaigns. so, by examining specific scenarios, I'm trying to find it out
20090819 21:09:50< Crab_> boucman: firstly, there's a need to allow storage of persistent-between-games information
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20090819 21:10:05< Crab_> boucman: to allow the ai to 'learn'/use learning info
20090819 21:10:25< boucman> in the case of killmap, we can hardwire it in the WML, and do a script to generate it before each release
20090819 21:10:35< Crab_> boucman: yes, possible, too.
20090819 21:10:42< Crab_> boucman: have you seen the beta debugger interface ?
20090819 21:10:47< boucman> it would work better than learning (more games)
20090819 21:11:11< boucman> not yet, i'm proofreading your commits, but you did a lot while I was away
20090819 21:11:16< boucman> i'll test it after that
20090819 21:11:33< Crab_> boucman: run with -d --new-widgets, and use debug() formula command
20090819 21:11:48< mordante> corn, that might be, I'll have a closer look at your code later
20090819 21:11:53< corn> ok
20090819 21:12:18< corn> when I port premultiply_alpha and unpremultiply_alpha to wesnoth, should I make them operate on a surface in-place or make a copy
20090819 21:12:39< Crab_> boucman: e.g. debug(2+2) or debug( nearest_loc(nearest_loc(my_leader.loc,loc(11,21)),unit_moves(my_leader.loc))  )
20090819 21:13:01< boucman> Crab_: recompiling then i'll do that
20090819 21:13:26< Crab_> boucman: and note that I've managed to hit SDL limitations with debugger's GUI :)
20090819 21:13:37< boucman> what limitation ?
20090819 21:14:04< Crab_> boucman: no one expected that someone is going to put 65Kb of info in the scrollable label  :)
20090819 21:14:24< Crab_> boucman: bug #14145
20090819 21:14:25< boucman> huf
20090819 21:14:26< boucman> indeed
20090819 21:15:03< Crab_> boucman: so, I'll need to prune unneeded info from the GUI, and allow 'save to file' operation in case someone wants to view the unpruned version
20090819 21:15:34< boucman> double-printing in stdout maybe...
20090819 21:15:54< Crab_> boucman: it's already in the stderr
20090819 21:16:00< boucman> to avoid having a complicated workaround until sdl fixes its problem
20090819 21:16:02< boucman> ok
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20090819 21:16:22< ilor_> mordante: were there any tricky questions? ;)
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20090819 21:16:41< CIA-62> mordante * r37950 /trunk/ (43 files in 2 dirs): 
20090819 21:16:41< CIA-62> Fix ODR issues in gui2.
20090819 21:16:41< CIA-62> krzysz00 discovered linker failures in the get_control_type() functions in the
20090819 21:16:41< CIA-62> new widgets. I expected the static causes an ODR violation and silene confirmed
20090819 21:16:41< CIA-62> that suspicion.
20090819 21:17:06< mordante> ilor_, yes some really tricky ones...
20090819 21:17:17< mordante> but only about the project and not about your work
20090819 21:17:35< ilor_> ah, I see
20090819 21:17:48< corn> hm, the student survey is extremely simple
20090819 21:18:18< ilor_> simpler than last year I think
20090819 21:18:27< ilor_> will fill it out tomorrow btw
20090819 21:18:29< corn> all of the questions merely require you to select a radio box
20090819 21:18:32< mordante> but the tricky questions are interesting, but ask more for Wesnoth's point of view instead of my personal opinion
20090819 21:18:34< corn> with an optional textfield
20090819 21:18:46< ilor_> how did gsoc go for wesnoth in general this year?
20090819 21:19:13< mordante> no how does Wesnoth feel about mandatory status updates for students 
20090819 21:19:21< mordante> weekly*
20090819 21:19:44< mordante> and if Wesnoth wants to do their own gsoc project, how can google support that project
20090819 21:20:03< corn> ah
20090819 21:20:09< Ivanovic> ilor_: quite good in general
20090819 21:20:13< corn> those are pretty interesting questions
20090819 21:20:32< mordante> indeed
20090819 21:20:56< corn> Ivanovic: I apologize again for missing the midterm survey deadline and hassling a lot of people :)
20090819 21:21:29 * mordante hopes the app engine doesn't crash and loose my answers, not in the mood to retype those long answers
20090819 21:21:36< mordante> ;-)
20090819 21:22:06< Ivanovic> corn: at least you are doing it the right way now, filling some preliminary answers early
20090819 21:22:08< Ivanovic> :)
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20090819 21:26:11< corn> Crab_: ok, I coded it. hopefully merge_with() handles tag merging properly
20090819 21:26:20< Crab_> corn: ok
20090819 21:26:25< Crab_> thanks
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20090819 21:26:59< corn> mordante: should I make premultiply_alpha() and unpremultiply_alpha() work in-place on surfaces, or return a copy
20090819 21:27:14< corn> (both are functions that manipulate the pixel data)
20090819 21:28:40< mordante> rather do them in place copies only slow things down
20090819 21:29:05< corn> ok
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20090819 21:43:18< CIA-62> zookeeper * r37951 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/ (07a_Dealing_with_Dwarves.cfg 07b_Talking_with_Trolls.cfg): Fixed a problem reported on the forums of it being impossible to recruit or recall a unit to take the flaming sword if you don't have enough carryover gold. Also a bit of WML cleanup.
20090819 21:49:05< boucman> Crab_: what's the "map control ai" ?
20090819 21:49:41< Crab_> boucman: a placeholder so far, for the ai that I'll use to try some new ideas
20090819 21:49:53< boucman> ok
20090819 21:52:47< boucman> Crab_: that is impressive...
20090819 21:52:52< boucman> congratulation
20090819 21:53:10< Crab_> boucman: that's about the debugger ?
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20090819 21:54:26< boucman> yes
20090819 21:55:14< Crab_> thanks. Still many things that are needed to do there, but the basic idea worked.
20090819 21:55:31< boucman> yes
20090819 21:55:39< boucman> that's going to be a great help
20090819 21:55:47< mordante> yes that debugger is really great
20090819 21:56:00< boucman> now all we need is command line history to help edition/testing ;)
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20090819 21:56:59< Crab_> boucman: note that you can debug a sub-expression. e.g. 2+debug(4*4)
20090819 21:57:09< mordante> Crab_, if you want to look at that, have a look whether you can change the line into a small gui2 window, since the textbox there already has a history feature
20090819 21:57:31< boucman> that's great
20090819 21:57:40< Crab_> mordante: yes, I'll try to do that
20090819 21:57:50< boucman> mordante: any idea when we will stop hiding all the cool stuff behind --new-widgets ?
20090819 21:58:20< mordante> boucman, what cool stuff?
20090819 21:58:50< Crab_> boucman: I have some WIP on allowing to set arbitrary breakpoints 'in advance', will commit in a day or two
20090819 21:59:54< boucman> new lobby, new formula debugger etc...
20090819 22:00:02< boucman> ok
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20090819 22:00:28< mordante> the new lobby is there since it's still a bit buggy and needs more testing before forcing it upon our users
20090819 22:01:22< mordante> the formula debugger is behind --new-widgets since Crab_ misunderstood the usage of that switch
20090819 22:01:31< boucman> ok
20090819 22:01:44< YogiHH> load_game dialog is there, too, but i guess it needs some more work
20090819 22:01:55< mordante> night YogiHH 
20090819 22:02:15< YogiHH> mordante: in a quiet moment, i'd like to work on the layout of that dialog with you, if that is possible
20090819 22:02:30< mordante> YogiHH, yes the --new-widgets is for dialogs that need work and replace an old widget
20090819 22:02:38< YogiHH> mordante: still looks weird in a couple of places and i don't know how to fix that
20090819 22:02:50< mordante> but the dialog Crab_ created is new so doesn't need the switch
20090819 22:03:12< mordante> YogiHH, yes that's possible, maybe this weekend
20090819 22:03:27< YogiHH> great
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20090819 22:03:32< boucman> Crab_: is there an easy way to see the result of DK's recruitement optimisation with your stat tool (i.e is one of the AI there "normal+new recruitement")
20090819 22:03:50< Crab_> boucman: sure, it was done. ftp://ftp.terraninfo.net/wesnoth/dk1.html
20090819 22:04:10< Crab_> boucman: look at 'Win delta' 
20090819 22:04:10< boucman> thx
20090819 22:04:34< Crab_> boucman: it's the difference     'default vs formula' - 'default vs default'  
20090819 22:04:40< Crab_> on 12k games
20090819 22:05:21< Crab_> boucman: is was imported in under 5 minutes from aitest web interface, by some gnumeric trickery
20090819 22:05:29< boucman> hehe
20090819 22:05:48< Crab_> boucman: also note that this is not final version of DKs work
20090819 22:05:56< boucman> Crab_: your stat page will be more usefull once we have a way to filter (not just sort) some criterias
20090819 22:05:58< boucman> but no rush
20090819 22:06:27< Crab_> boucman: well, we (with corn) are already working towards pushing that info to s.w.o.
20090819 22:06:38< boucman> that's cool too
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20090819 22:07:39< boucman> stats.wesnoth.org points me to the normal wesnoth page for the moment, is that known ?
20090819 22:09:21< fendrin> zookeeper: How can I disable the save replay question after a scenario?
20090819 22:09:48< boucman> is deekay Dragonking ?
20090819 22:09:58< Ivanovic> boucman: it is known
20090819 22:10:06< boucman> Ivanovic: ok 
20090819 22:10:14< Ivanovic> since corn has IIRC not setup everything of his new stats on the server
20090819 22:10:22< Ivanovic> and the old system was slowing down the whole server
20090819 22:10:26< Crab_> boucman: yes
20090819 22:10:31< boucman> wesbot: log 37944
20090819 22:10:34< wesbot> thespaceinvader * r37944 : Add and wire new Dragonguard melee animation, update changelogs.
20090819 22:10:38< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=37944
20090819 22:10:42-!- kitty_ [n=kitty@wesnoth/artist/kitty] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090819 22:11:14< thespaceinvader> hey kitty_ 
20090819 22:11:20< kitty_> hey
20090819 22:11:50< mordante> hi kitty_ 
20090819 22:12:27< kitty_> thespaceinvader: i just noticed that my ruffian portrait didn't get commited, could you do that sometime?
20090819 22:12:35< thespaceinvader> sure
20090819 22:12:41< thespaceinvader> must have missed that one, sorry
20090819 22:12:51< kitty_> no worries - thanks!
20090819 22:18:56< thespaceinvader> committed that, as the CIA should soon tell us...
20090819 22:19:18< CIA-62> thespaceinvader * r37952 /trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs):
20090819 22:19:20< mordante> thespaceinvader, you have a lot of faith in the CIA :-P
20090819 22:19:42< thespaceinvader> aaaand i forgot a commit message again
20090819 22:20:02< thespaceinvader> that should of course, read, 'Add and wire new Ruffian portrait, update changelogs and portrait credits'
20090819 22:20:11< thespaceinvader> i seem to be doing that a lot these days >.<
20090819 22:20:32< mordante> doesn't your svn program warn about it?
20090819 22:27:18< CIA-62> mordante * r37953 /trunk/utils/wiki_grabber.py: Indent the sub items in the wiki grabber.
20090819 22:33:39-!- silene [n=plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090819 22:33:47< silene> hi
20090819 22:33:57< silene> fendrin: you were looking for me?
20090819 22:36:15< fendrin> hi silene
20090819 22:37:03< fendrin> silene: Did you remove the result=continue_nosave attribute value in the endlevel tag?
20090819 22:38:00< corn> boucman: it will be a while (until september, maybe) that s.w.o is changed to my new stuf
20090819 22:38:15< corn> it requires some coordination with rhonda to change server settings 
20090819 22:38:33< boucman> ok
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20090819 22:42:21< fendrin> silene: got my question?
20090819 22:42:21< silene> fendrin: yes and no; i only enabled the deprecation message and it still works (unless someone else removed it since then); i wasn't the one who decided to remove it in 1.5.x
20090819 22:42:46< CIA-62> mordante * r37955 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/campaign_selection.cpp: Update wiki comment
20090819 22:42:49< CIA-62> mordante * r37954 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/addon_connect.cpp: Update wiki comment
20090819 22:43:10< mordante> I'm off night
20090819 22:43:20< corn> night
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20090819 22:44:00< fendrin> silene: I have problems with the story only scenarios in LoW. Showing the question for save of the replay also brings up an ugly pseudo map and is just not wanted. But I can't see a wml way to make things better.
20090819 22:45:49-!- noy [n=Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit []
20090819 22:46:55< silene> fendrin: according to the code, continue_no_save is equivalent to carryover_percentage=100, carryover_add=no, bonus=no, carryover_report=no, save=no, linger_mode=no
20090819 22:48:00< silene> (i'm not sure i understand your issue)
20090819 22:48:35< deekay> Hi boucman ;p
20090819 22:48:39< fendrin> silene: It's better to see. Just cl in debug mode to scenario 8 and klick through the story, please.
20090819 22:48:47< boucman> hey deekay
20090819 22:49:00< deekay> boucman: Yes, me is me. ;)
20090819 22:49:40< boucman> hehe
20090819 22:49:57< Soliton> while playing trow i've noticed that scenarios randomly end in linger mode or continue immediately.
20090819 22:51:07< fendrin> silene: I have tried the tags named by you and this didn't make any difference. So it seems you are right that these code is equivalent. But the behaviour of both ways changed. I am used to just slipping through to the next scenario. Without the display of any map or questioning for any save location (My problem is the replay of the story only). 
20090819 22:53:40< fendrin> Soliton: randomly?
20090819 22:53:45< silene> i didn't really had time to see what happened, but the screen indeed flashed for a split second; this may be caused by the end level delay letting the map flash before ending the level
20090819 22:54:27< Soliton> well, not really randomly of course but not according to what's in the WML afaict.
20090819 22:55:24< fendrin> silene: You weren't asked for saving the replay? If you start twice you should be, since the savegame does exist then already.
20090819 22:56:04< silene> fendrin: no, i wasn't; and why should i be? it is a nosave scenario
20090819 22:56:18< zookeeper> fendrin, no idea about the replay thing. probably no way. i have auto-saved replays off always, so i never get those.
20090819 22:57:34< fendrin> silene: That is the point. The replay shouldn't be saved. But it is. And I get an overwrite question every time. And an ugly looking map in the background.
20090819 22:59:40< silene> hum... indeed, now i got; that's really strange, and i'm not sure this has anything to dp with the end level changes (the replay i mean, the map is definitely my fault), i would think the savegame changes are at fault
20090819 23:01:33< corn> Crab_: I am converting the example you put on pastebin to actual code, but this gives me an error:
20090819 23:01:39< corn>                 utils::string_cast(ai::manager::get_ai_info().tod_manager_.turn()));
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20090819 23:01:53< corn> string_cast is not a member of utils
20090819 23:02:03< silene> str_cast
20090819 23:02:21< corn> silene: ok, thanks
20090819 23:02:22< Crab_> corn: no need to convert, I was writing some parts of that code from memory, just in order to show you how I was going to use those add_to_replay functions
20090819 23:02:37< corn> too late, :)
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20090819 23:02:42< Crab_> corn: ok :)
20090819 23:03:08< fendrin> silene: I use the {NO_MAP_DATA} macro. I believe it's providing the little map.
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20090819 23:10:05< fendrin> It is.
20090819 23:12:25< CIA-62> silene * r37956 /trunk/src/play_controller.cpp: Prevented map from flashing when [end_level] happens during the prestart event.
20090819 23:12:59< silene> fendrin: the map thing is fixed; for the save, we should ask euschn next time
20090819 23:13:46 * zookeeper feels the need to note that it's "endlevel" not "end_level", just in case the latter slips into the code
20090819 23:15:46< fendrin> The feature to disable the replay seperately seems to be missing. What i need is save=yes replay_save=no. Since I do want to save the beginning of the next scenario but not the replay of the story only one.
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20090819 23:16:27< silene> zookeeper: it's part of my plans to allows end_level as an alias ;-)
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20090819 23:20:42< Crab_> fendrin: can you watch this and comment on orc tactics ? ftp://ftp.terraninfo.net/wesnoth/LOW_3_1.gz
20090819 23:22:56< fendrin> Crab_: watching
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20090819 23:26:52< fendrin> Crab_: great, the orc ai is strong. Did you dissallow recruiting anything beside wolf riders? 
20090819 23:27:24< Crab_> fendrin: note that, for added effect, orc leaders can join the fight as well - they have no gold anyway.
20090819 23:28:07< fendrin> Crab_: good idea. They also manage to grep the villages. Very nice.
20090819 23:28:09< Crab_> fendrin: my tweaks were: 
20090819 23:28:16< Crab_> 1) recruit only scouts (L2 wolf is a scout, heh) - I needed faster units 
20090819 23:28:24< ancestral> Orcs know UNIX?
20090819 23:28:24< Crab_> 2) be aggressive - no reason to hold back
20090819 23:28:39< Crab_> 3) do not be cautious - the enemy is much weaker
20090819 23:29:04< ancestral> "fendrin: Crab_: good idea. They also manage to grep the villages. Very nice."
20090819 23:29:04< Crab_> 4) forget about going for the leader and forget about going to the villages
20090819 23:29:21< Crab_> 5) try to kill side 2 units and side 2 leader
20090819 23:29:29< Crab_> that's all
20090819 23:30:01< Crab_> fendrin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m27519ce1 (only works in my local copy atm)
20090819 23:30:11< fendrin> Crab_: Please commit the new ai settings. Or is this hardcoded in c++?
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20090819 23:30:21< Crab_> fendrin: no, no c++ hardcoding
20090819 23:30:29< Crab_> fendrin: I've only fixed a few things
20090819 23:30:45< Crab_> fendrin: see the pastebin for exact changes
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20090819 23:31:54< Crab_> fendrin: too early for commit, though. I need to test other difficulty levels, as well, and see the behavior in case of different player's actions
20090819 23:33:00< boucman>  id=Galtrid <= what does that mean ?
20090819 23:33:21< Crab_> boucman: leader of elven side, death of whom is a loss for a player
20090819 23:33:24< fendrin> boucman: That is the name of the leader that holds the Kalian.
20090819 23:33:46< Crab_> fendrin: what should I try next ? 
20090819 23:33:49< boucman> oh
20090819 23:34:17< boucman> makes sense, then
20090819 23:34:33< fendrin> Crab_: Can you make it work with units that are not only wolf riders? Maybe that is the best choice for the ai but an orcish army wouldn't only consist of these units.
20090819 23:35:05< Crab_> fendrin: well, any recruitment pattern will work. it's just that this strategy depends on speed, so picking wolf riders is clearly the *best* choice
20090819 23:35:25< Crab_> fendrin: note that we can try to 'select a strategy on 1st orc turn'
20090819 23:35:46< Crab_> fendrin: to provide better replayability and to take into account different starting gold / recruits of Kalenz
20090819 23:35:58< Crab_> fendrin: e.g. "if kalenz is too strong, try to hold back 25 turns"
20090819 23:36:38< fendrin> Crab_: Does modifying the ai strategy with modify_side work now?
20090819 23:37:11< Crab_> fendrin: I intend to code [modify_ai] - a better replacement for [modify_side][ai]
20090819 23:37:36< Crab_> fendrin: about modify_side - as I've told you, most parameters can be changed
20090819 23:39:26< fendrin> I remember.
20090819 23:39:51< Crab_> fendrin: the problem for orcs, is that this map is almost all forest... so, they are at disadvantage almost everywhere, so the best tactics is just to hit'em' first and hit'em' fast
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20090819 23:41:04< Crab_> fendrin: so, the citadel itself is of little 'strategic value', in most circumstances
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20090819 23:42:14< fendrin> Crab_: So the target leader is needed to force them to attack galdrid?
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20090819 23:43:32< boucman> Crab_: couldn't you force recruit scouts for the first two turns and then fallback to another recruit alog ( deekay's or default)
20090819 23:43:33< Crab_> fendrin: well, I added it to make it more important for them to attack galdrid. they'll kill him even without it, but, as he's a good attacker, they'll leave him for dessert
20090819 23:43:44< Crab_> boucman: they have no money after turn 2 :)
20090819 23:43:50< boucman> hehe
20090819 23:44:46< Crab_> boucman: the problem is that to avoid hardcoding things, I need to ask the AI to do things that are efficient. 
20090819 23:45:04< Crab_> boucman: so, if you suggest an alternate strategy for the orcs, I'll try to implement it
20090819 23:45:14< boucman> Crab_: if AI can only recruit for two turns, it makes sense to hardwire anyway
20090819 23:45:39< Crab_> boucman: you can, for example, submit a replay with you playing as orcs, and smashing those elves in a totally different devious way .....
20090819 23:45:45< boucman> what faction are the oponents ?
20090819 23:45:53< Crab_> boucman: LoW 3
20090819 23:46:03< Crab_> boucman: elf(human) + elf(ally) vs orc+orc
20090819 23:46:04< deekay> Which elves need smashing? :)
20090819 23:46:10< Crab_> deekay: LoW 3
20090819 23:46:15< Crab_> deekay: on hard
20090819 23:46:41< fendrin> I am away fetching food for 10 minutes.
20090819 23:46:42< deekay> And I'm supposed to play as both orcs?
20090819 23:46:42< Crab_> deekay: ftp://ftp.terraninfo.net/wesnoth/LOW_3_1.gz is one way to do it (mass wolves + rush to kill side 2)
20090819 23:46:59< Crab_> deekay: yes. with kalenz just watching
20090819 23:47:17< Crab_> deekay: basically, you should show "how the things should have been if Kalenz had not arrived"
20090819 23:47:38< Crab_> deekay: ( note that orcs win on time over )
20090819 23:47:43< boucman> Crab_: this is a campaign, you could do something very nasty (for the player) like having the AI try to kill only healers, or only high level units... not the best strategy to win, but should annoy the player a lot
20090819 23:47:55< Crab_> boucman: killing loyal units is the way to go :)
20090819 23:48:01< boucman> or attack loyal units only :P if you give the AI a couple of skirms, it might get nasty
20090819 23:48:21< Crab_> boucman: this is best handled by adding a specific candidate action :)
20090819 23:48:52< Crab_> boucman: but the point is not to annoy the player, but to smash him to little pieces (on hard) :)
20090819 23:49:39< boucman> Crab_: unless the scenario is the last one of the campaign, i tend to disagree, smashing the player is the long term goal, 
20090819 23:50:00< boucman> killing the most valuable units in a specific level might help make the thing more "interesting" later
20090819 23:50:58< Crab_> boucman: yes
20090819 23:51:33< Crab_> boucman: note that I want to handle only 'hard' difficulty this way. to add extra challenge to those players who want it :)
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20090819 23:52:26< deekay> Crab_: Tell me... this replay is from AI vs AI or?
20090819 23:52:29-!- ancestral [n=ancestra@97-116-126-165.mpls.qwest.net] has quit ["And that’s the end of THAT chapter."]
20090819 23:52:33< Crab_> deekay: yes, AI vs AI
20090819 23:52:55< Crab_> deekay: (with me moving away kalenz, of course)
20090819 23:53:59< deekay> Crab_: Wolves work good there indeed, since they attack on early night and can pass water easily
20090819 23:54:08< deekay> Tho experienced player will still smash them
20090819 23:54:37< deekay> When I see AI putting poor elves in water something dies in me...
20090819 23:54:50< Crab_> deekay: I haven't touched the elven AI yet :)
20090819 23:55:03< Crab_> deekay: the question is: is there any good alternate strategy for the orcs ?
20090819 23:55:19< deekay> Without redesigning of the map?
20090819 23:55:42< Crab_> deekay: yes and no.
20090819 23:55:44< deekay> (I could see how adding pathes through the forest could help other lvl2 units come on time )
20090819 23:56:25< Crab_> deekay: if possible, without redesigning the map, if not possible - it'll be good to hear redesign suggestions
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20090819 23:57:49< deekay> Crab_: What is storyline? Orcs are agressors?
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20090819 23:58:29< corn> Crab_: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m45328030
20090819 23:58:41< corn> can you review?
20090819 23:58:43< Crab_> deekay: no, they're on a friendly visit to an elven citadel :)) yes, they are, fendrin can tell more :)
20090819 23:58:54< Crab_> corn: will do
20090819 23:58:56< deekay> Crab_: Alternative way:
20090819 23:59:01< deekay> Crab_: Do not redesign map
20090819 23:59:20< deekay> Crab_: Tweak starting time of day so orcs can reach enemy about evening
20090819 23:59:20< corn> I added the things to ai_log and changed the storage of [upload_log] to the more sane way of storing one single tag
20090819 23:59:27-!- Appleman1234 [n=Appleman@131.181.102.164] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090819 23:59:38< deekay> Crab_: And ger more "hard" fighters than wolves
--- Log closed Thu Aug 20 00:00:21 2009