--- Log opened Sun Aug 30 00:00:21 2009
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20090830 00:02:04< AI0867> Crab_: when I played today, the slayer just sat there, allowing me to kill him
20090830 00:02:25< Crab_> AI0867: yes, he's a bit smarter in my version :)
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20090830 00:07:10< Crab_> how can I  (in WML) count the number of units matching a SUF ?
20090830 00:09:00< AI0867> store them, then check the size of the store
20090830 00:09:12< Crab_> thanks
20090830 00:09:53< zookeeper> there's also count= for SUF in case you just need to check whether x units match your filter
20090830 00:10:21< Crab_> zookeeper: no, I just need to get a number of units matching a certain SUF
20090830 00:10:35< Crab_> zookeeper: to calculate a 'battlefield advantage counter', sort of.
20090830 00:10:46< zookeeper> uh, hmm...not sure if there is actually. it's not documented, maybe it doesn't exist at all.
20090830 00:10:55< zookeeper> ok
20090830 00:11:34< zookeeper> Sapient, did you ever implement count= for SUF?
20090830 00:11:54< zookeeper> i was pretty sure there was one now, but it's not documented so maybe my memory is just failing
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20090830 00:21:33< shadowmaster> Sapient: am I mistaken, or [fire_event] already uses SUF? (https://gna.org/bugs/?13365)
20090830 00:22:32< shadowmaster> shikadibot: log r32385
20090830 00:22:33< shikadibot> Revision 32385 (shadowmaster, 2009-01-29 20:43:11 +0000 (Thu, 29 Jan 2009)):
20090830 00:22:37< shikadibot> [fire_event]'s [primary_unit] and [secondary_unit] tags now take a SUF
20090830 00:22:39< shikadibot> instead of a x,y filter.
20090830 00:22:42< shikadibot> This doesn't allow filtering on recall-list units right now, but I'll
20090830 00:22:44< shikadibot> (+1 discarded lines)
20090830 00:22:47< shikadibot> Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=32385
20090830 00:23:01< shadowmaster> (I deliberately scrapped recall list matching later)
20090830 00:23:39< shadowmaster> Sapient: also, point 3 is solved by [primary_unit][filter_location] (Part of SUF) AFAIK?
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20090830 00:24:27< shadowmaster> Sapient: I understand point 2, but no so point 4
20090830 00:25:10< shadowmaster> should it be reduced to "$unit and $second_unit are inherited from the calling event unless [fire_event] overrides them?"
20090830 00:25:14< shadowmaster> ?
20090830 00:25:20< Sapient> hi
20090830 00:25:36< shadowmaster> yes, hello there.
20090830 00:26:16< Sapient> I am not sure what exactly you are asking
20090830 00:26:39< Sapient> hang on, let me pull up the bug report
20090830 00:26:49< shadowmaster> yes, that's why I linked it.
20090830 00:28:25< Sapient> oh, right
20090830 00:28:38< Sapient> "$unit and $second_unit are inherited from the calling event unless [fire_event] overrides them?"
20090830 00:28:57< Sapient> that is correct, but it also determines $x1,$x2 and $y1,$y2
20090830 00:29:15< Sapient> remember, unit and second_unit are just shortcuts for storing at those two locations
20090830 00:30:01< Sapient> if you move or kill the unit at x1,y1 then access $unit, it'll be meaningless
20090830 00:33:51< corn> is it better to say "there were many reviews" or "there are many reviews"
20090830 00:33:57< corn> (I am looking at wesnoth.org frontpage)
20090830 00:35:02< Sapient> there have been many reviews
20090830 00:35:03< corn> I think the first is correct for saying that there many reviews (in the verb sense) and the second is for the noun review
20090830 00:40:17< Sapient> "were" could imply that the reviews aren't available anymore
20090830 00:41:20< Sapient> whereas "are", while correctly conveying that the reviews are available to be read, does not convey well the fact that they were made in the past
20090830 00:41:38< Sapient> so I'd suggest "have been"
20090830 00:43:14< corn> either way is better than the way it is now
20090830 00:44:18< corn> Ivanovic: ^
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20090830 00:44:36< Ivanovic> not now, heading off to bed
20090830 00:44:39< corn> ok
20090830 00:44:49< Ivanovic> please provide me with a nicely formulated way once i get up again
20090830 00:44:56< corn> ok, sure
20090830 00:46:26< Sapient> though usually, one would say "there have been many favorable reviews" (or negative, as the case may be)
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20090830 00:48:32< corn> I don't know if they're all favorable
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20090830 00:49:31< corn> it's also missing a few links based on a quick google search, I'll add them now
20090830 00:51:44< corn> nevermind, they're just links to the same review
20090830 00:51:55< Sapient> I guess you could say "The Battle for Wesnoth has received many favorable reviews" to be completely clear
20090830 00:53:09< corn> this is the complete line:
20090830 00:53:11< corn> There were many reviews by print and web magazines. Don't hesitate to have a look at them.
20090830 00:53:59< corn> well
20090830 00:54:18< corn> although it's misleading to say that all the reviews were favorable, it is still an improvement over the current line
20090830 00:54:32< corn> so I say we change the first line and leave the second alone
20090830 00:55:59< Sapient> I think the "Don't hesitate to have a look at them" could be dropped, really
20090830 00:57:12< Sapient> It's a sidebar not a discussion / article
20090830 01:00:07< corn> I think that line is fine - it is better for the site to explicitly try to win viewers over rather than leave them to connect the dots
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20090830 01:30:47< Sapient> out of curiosity, has anyone tried the iphone port of wesnoth yet?
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20090830 01:44:08< crimson_penguin> it's out?
20090830 01:44:58< Aethaeryn> afaik, it is not.
20090830 01:45:08< Aethaeryn> I haven't seen it on the forums, at least.
20090830 01:45:39< Sapient> ah, ok. I was just watching the youtube videos
20090830 01:46:08< Aethaeryn> no, just alpha builds by the developer to spark interest
20090830 01:46:11< Aethaeryn> old vids, too
20090830 01:46:18< Sapient> I have to admit I was kinda curious how much he was planning to charge per download
20090830 01:46:56< Sapient> since I think under the GPL terms he'd have to release his modified source and someone could presumably undercut him fairly easily
20090830 01:48:54< Aethaeryn> Sapient: is there a minimum price?
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20090830 01:50:03< Sapient> no, unless you count zero ;)
20090830 01:50:39< Aethaeryn> oh
20090830 01:50:50< Aethaeryn> but there'd be no motivation to undercut someone to $0
20090830 01:51:02< Aethaeryn> the only point of undercutting is for money but no work
20090830 01:51:26< Sapient> sure, there may be some open source enthusiast who might jump it straight down to zero
20090830 01:51:44< Aethaeryn> True, but this is assuming open publishing conditions.
20090830 01:51:56< Sapient> right, apple has to approve everything that goes in the store
20090830 01:51:58< Aethaeryn> Since Apple has a monopoly on *distribution* it could remove it.
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20090830 01:52:11< Sapient> and they might just say, "no thanks, we already got one"
20090830 01:52:18< Aethaeryn> Right.
20090830 01:52:29< Aethaeryn> If it were identical
20090830 01:52:42< Aethaeryn> The Wattle for Besnoth though...
20090830 01:52:57< Sapient> lol
20090830 01:53:43< Aethaeryn> though if they submitted it as "Battlenoth"...
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20090830 01:56:05< shadowmaster> Sapient:k, so the idea is that when [primary_unit] or [secondary_unit] anre't overridden, the corresponding automatic variables should be inherited from the calling event.
20090830 01:56:24< shadowmaster> right?
20090830 01:56:45< Sapient> yes
20090830 01:56:49< Sapient> exactly
20090830 01:56:50< shadowmaster> \o/
20090830 01:57:28< Sapient> because laziness is the foremost virtue among all programmers
20090830 01:57:49< Sapient> WML authors included ;)
20090830 02:07:47< Sapient> cya later, have fun.
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20090830 02:10:17< Aethaeryn> Is 1.7.3 crossroads broken?
20090830 02:10:28< Aethaeryn> Apparently I scared blue's AI too much - it doesn't want to recruit.
20090830 02:10:35< Aethaeryn> Just sitting on its turn
20090830 02:11:25< Aethaeryn> aaaaand it crashed it
20090830 02:13:30< Aethaeryn> I guess the AI is just afraid of me
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20090830 04:09:54< Aethaeryn> Can the add-on server handle 4 digit versions?
20090830 04:09:59< Aethaeryn> i.e. 0.0.1.x
20090830 04:13:13< Blueblaze> It can handle whatever
20090830 04:14:27< Blueblaze> Bob the Mighty uses versions like "MP RPG 2.3"
20090830 04:14:44< Blueblaze> PK's modern combat: "0.9.55 Beta2.1"
20090830 04:14:55< Blueblaze> Some random map: "0.9.8.24"
20090830 04:17:29< Aethaeryn> okay, because I wanted something like "0.0.1.1 Alpha"
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20090830 04:22:01< Blueblaze> That'd work
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20090830 05:21:42< corn> esr: hi, earlier today Sapient and I were discussing the wording of the "Reviews" blurb on the wesnoth.org frontpage: There were many reviews by print and web magazines. Don't hesitate to have a look at them.
20090830 05:22:17< esr> OK.
20090830 05:22:36< corn> we both agreed that the wording could be improved and we settled on this:
20090830 05:23:00< corn> "The Battle for Wesnoth has received many favorable reviews. Don't hesistate to have a look at them."
20090830 05:23:19< corn> that's actually my personal choice, sapient didn't want the second line
20090830 05:23:24< corn> what's your opinion?
20090830 05:23:38< corn> s/hesistate/hesitate/g
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20090830 07:36:39< mordante> servus
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20090830 09:45:01< Ivanovic> moin
20090830 09:47:37< boucman> morning all
20090830 09:49:19< mordante> hi Ivanovic and boucman 
20090830 09:50:38< mordante> Ivanovic, I didn't have time to fix the lobby issues so 1.7.4 still can't default to the new lobby
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20090830 09:50:58< mordante> I want to work on it next week, after I finished the installation of my new system
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20090830 09:55:06< Ivanovic> oaky, already wanted to ask how you like your new system
20090830 09:55:34< mordante> well it works rather nicely wesnoth compiles in 3:30 minutes :-)
20090830 09:55:44< Ivanovic> :)
20090830 09:56:16< mordante> so that's a large improvement, on my previous system it was 20 minutes
20090830 09:56:55< mordante> (and I tested that quite a while ago will be longer now, crab_ and I added a lot of code and mine has some heavy templates)
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20090830 10:40:27< Crab_> hi
20090830 10:40:49< corn> hi
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20090830 10:42:47< Crab_> corn: have any of the latest ai test results reached you ? (r38081; --new-uploader --label="25_aug_2009_ai_default_vs_ai_testing_plus_fai_recruitment")
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20090830 10:43:28< corn> yes, my code threw exceptions on all of it :)
20090830 10:43:48< Crab_> corn: ok :) when it'll make sense to try to repeat ?
20090830 10:44:12< corn> in ~8 hrs
20090830 10:44:28< Crab_> no hurry ) ping me when it'll be ready
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20090830 11:20:36< Ivanovic> Chusslove: was the image translation stuff not already solved on wesnoth-i18n@gna?
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20090830 11:22:31< Chusslove> Ivanovic: It is solved technically, but there was no call to translators.
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20090830 11:22:50< Chusslove> "Here's the instructions, send images to this-person...", that stuff.
20090830 11:23:18< Ivanovic> that is: IIRC i even gave you commit access and all the stuff asking you to tell the translators how things work and to send stuff to you
20090830 11:23:46< Chusslove> ??
20090830 11:23:48< Chusslove> :)
20090830 11:24:21< stikonas> so 1.8 will have translated images?
20090830 11:24:36< Chusslove> Ivanovic: if I'd have commit acces, how could I put it to use? Just trying to check out with svn+ssh, with my registered key at GNA, does not work.
20090830 11:25:00< Ivanovic> what was your gna accountname?
20090830 11:25:05< Chusslove> caslav_ilic
20090830 11:25:26< Ivanovic> hmm, okay, you don't have commit access
20090830 11:26:56< Chusslove> stikonas: It will (should) for those who make them.
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20090830 11:28:34< Ivanovic> Chusslove: okay, gave you commit access and you got to handle the image stuff
20090830 11:28:47< Ivanovic> Chusslove: that is: also explain this to the translators on the ML
20090830 11:29:10< Chusslove> Ivanovic: Sure, I'll write to ML and make a forum thread.
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20090830 11:39:55< Chusslove> Ivanovic: Does it take some time for commit access to become available after you grant it?
20090830 11:40:12< Ivanovic> it should directly work if your key does work
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20090830 12:11:44< Chusslove> Ivanovic: Can't get it to work. As if my key or username are wrong (even if I do use the same key for at other places). I've now registered a new key, will try later after "Updates will be reflected in the next hour cron job."
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20090830 13:05:12< CIA-62> mordante * r38208 /trunk/changelog: Update changelog.
20090830 13:08:59< Chusslove> Ivanovic: OK, svn+ssh works now, and with either key. Looks like it did take the cron update to get it recognized. Thanks!
20090830 13:09:46< Ivanovic> okay
20090830 13:10:51< Chusslove> Ivanovic: One other thing: now that I have access, should I still better send you translation updates for my language (to avoid po-update clashes), or commit them myself?
20090830 13:12:09< Ivanovic> Chusslove: ahh, good question
20090830 13:12:27< Chusslove> I've no problem either way, whatever suits you better :)
20090830 13:12:35< stikonas> I think french maintainer commits himself
20090830 13:13:00< Ivanovic> that is: if you update the changelogs accordingly (a max of 80 chars per line) and make sure to run the update commands on the files so that they are never outdated, it *should* work
20090830 13:16:35< Ivanovic> Crab_: it would be nice if you added the changelog entrys for fixing the infinite loops in ai to players_changelog, too
20090830 13:16:54< Ivanovic> Crab_: since this *is* a very noteworthy change and many players experienced probs in campaign gameplay
20090830 13:17:30< Crab_> Ivanovic: ok. btw, Isn't players_changelog populated by you during the release ? If 'no', then what changes should go in it ?
20090830 13:17:41< Ivanovic> no, it is not
20090830 13:17:55< Ivanovic> the ones commiting things should add the stuff that is relevant to players in there
20090830 13:18:00< Crab_> ok
20090830 13:18:17< Ivanovic> so stuff like "added some internal quirk for whatever" should not end there, but playervisible changes should
20090830 13:18:27< Crab_> ok, understood
20090830 13:18:35< Ivanovic> and yeah, things that appear in players_changelog should also appear in the normal one
20090830 13:19:28< Ivanovic> the players_changelog is probably what "external sites" would base their release notes on, since theses are the things that matter for the "average joe" players
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20090830 14:37:39< CIA-62> alink * r38209 /trunk/src/mouse_events.cpp: Simplify a bit the code for pathfinding between waypoints.
20090830 14:39:50< CIA-62> alink * r38210 /trunk/src/mouse_events.hpp: oops forget a tiny change in the header file for the previous commit
20090830 14:40:37< Ivanovic> AI0867, alink, boucman, Chusslove, cib0, corn, Crab_, dfranke, elias, esr, fendrin, grzywacz, ilor, loonycyborg, mordante, shadowmaster, Soliton, thespaceinvader, zookeeper, everyone else who cares: as you might know i plan to release 1.7.4 "soon" (as in some hours)
20090830 14:40:58< thespaceinvader> Ivanovic: i'll race you to the finish again
20090830 14:41:00< Ivanovic> do you have anything left, any blockers that stop me from releasing, any last second features you want to slip in?
20090830 14:41:03< thespaceinvader> the Fire Drake this time
20090830 14:41:12< Ivanovic> thespaceinvader: take your time
20090830 14:41:18< thespaceinvader> having a deadline makes me work faster ;)
20090830 14:41:20< Ivanovic> it is enough that i know i should wait a little
20090830 14:41:34< Ivanovic> okay, then you got 20 mins
20090830 14:41:35< Ivanovic> ^^
20090830 14:42:34< Ivanovic> though we can still negotiate a little if you need more time (though more than 25mins will become difficult...)
20090830 14:42:35< Ivanovic> ;)
20090830 14:42:53< alink> if i have time and it looks simple/safe enough i will maybe try to slip a UI indication for waypoint, but that's really not important
20090830 14:43:11< Ivanovic> alink: sure, sounds like a good idea to me
20090830 14:44:15< thespaceinvader> lol, i might need a little longer than that, Ivanovic :P
20090830 14:44:35< Ivanovic> thespaceinvader: you know star trek and scotty negotiating with kirk?
20090830 14:44:36< thespaceinvader> but a couple of hours should do it
20090830 14:44:43< thespaceinvader> of course
20090830 14:44:45< alink> Ivanovic: yeah, but it will just be a quick hack reusing current code, not the finale thing, thus the not important part
20090830 14:44:48< thespaceinvader> make that 4 hours
20090830 14:45:37< Ivanovic> i see it this way: "scottie, we don't have more than 2 hours", "but i do need at *least* 4 if everything goes smooth", "you got 2 hours and thirty minitues, if you need a sec longer the klingons will kill us all!", "okay, I'll do it in 30mins!!!"
20090830 14:45:39< Ivanovic> ^^
20090830 14:46:32< alink> btw after this release i may try to clean include of pathfinding code, i build 3/4 of the game each time i touch that file :-(
20090830 14:47:22< Ivanovic> hehe, sounds reasonable
20090830 14:47:27< alink> including addon_management.cpp ?!?
20090830 14:48:50< CIA-62> caslav_ilic * r38211 /trunk/po/wesnoth-lib/sr@latin.po: Small fix.
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20090830 14:49:36< CIA-62> crab * r38212 /trunk/src/ai/formula/function_table.cpp: next_hop formula ai function
20090830 14:49:42< CIA-62> crab * r38213 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): changelog update
20090830 14:49:48< alink> mmm a good part comes from path drawing used by game_display.hpp (which is indeed often included )
20090830 14:50:03< Crab_> Ivanovic: ok, I've got some good LoW3 changes, too, but I guess I'll commit them after a release (they're a bit untested). so, consider me ready for 1.7.4
20090830 14:50:26< Ivanovic> Crab_: okay
20090830 14:52:29< thespaceinvader> Ivanovic: it might be o'brien i'm thinking of then, from tng/ds9 - a good engineer always gives an estimate for job time at least double what he expects to spend
20090830 14:52:43< thespaceinvader> that way, when the captain halves it, he can still finish in time
20090830 14:52:57< thespaceinvader> if the captain doesn't, he can surprise everyone by finishing early
20090830 14:54:03< Ivanovic> and a smart captain knows this and can directly state the the *good* engineer only has a third of the time he estimates is required...
20090830 14:54:04< Ivanovic> ;)
20090830 14:54:56< mordante> Ivanovic, I've some cleanup patches, doesn't matter whether they are in .4 or .5
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20090830 15:00:13< Ivanovic> mordante: okay
20090830 15:01:39< ilor> Ivanovic: I've no pending stuff atm
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20090830 15:36:29< alink> mmh showing the waypoints seems to work nicely but i am still not fully happy about it, it lacks feedback when pressing the key
20090830 15:37:00< alink> anyway i think i will commit that version for the moment, seems already more useful
20090830 15:42:10< CIA-62> mordante * r38214 /trunk/src/ai/game_info.hpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:42:12< CIA-62> mordante * r38215 /trunk/src/ai/composite/aspect.hpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:42:15< CIA-62> mordante * r38216 /trunk/src/ai/composite/component.hpp: Added constructor to initialize all members.
20090830 15:42:19< CIA-62> mordante * r38217 /trunk/src/ai/formula/callable_objects.hpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:42:23< CIA-62> mordante * r38218 /trunk/src/ai/configuration.hpp: Added constructor to initialize all members.
20090830 15:42:26< CIA-62> mordante * r38219 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/window_builder.hpp: Added constructor to initialize all members.
20090830 15:42:29< CIA-62> mordante * r38220 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/text.hpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:42:34< CIA-62> mordante * r38221 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/toggle_panel.hpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:42:36< CIA-62> mordante * r38222 /trunk/src/ai/contexts.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:42:40< CIA-62> mordante * r38223 /trunk/src/ai/default/ai.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:42:43< CIA-62> mordante * r38224 /trunk/src/ai/formula/stage_rca_formulas.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:42:46< CIA-62> mordante * r38225 /trunk/src/ai/testing/ca.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:42:50< CIA-62> mordante * r38226 /trunk/src/ai/testing/stage_rca.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:42:53< CIA-62> mordante * r38227 /trunk/src/formula.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:42:56< CIA-62> mordante * r38228 /trunk/src/game.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:42:59< CIA-62> mordante * r38229 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/game_delete.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:43:03< CIA-62> mordante * r38230 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/game_load.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:43:07< CIA-62> mordante * r38231 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/lobby_main.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:43:09< CIA-62> mordante * r38232 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/listbox.hpp: Remove an unused member.
20090830 15:43:14< CIA-62> mordante * r38233 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/settings.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:43:17< CIA-62> mordante * r38234 /trunk/src/lobby_data.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:43:20< CIA-62> mordante * r38235 /trunk/src/mouse_events.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:43:23< CIA-62> mordante * r38236 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:43:26< CIA-62> mordante * r38237 /trunk/src/server/room_manager.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:43:30< CIA-62> mordante * r38238 /trunk/src/server/server.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:43:33< CIA-62> mordante * r38239 /trunk/src/unit.cpp: Initialize all members.
20090830 15:44:11< grzywacz> lol
20090830 15:44:25< mordante> nice to have a fast computer again :-)
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20090830 15:44:41< loonycyborg> That way we'll soon run out of revision numbers :P
20090830 15:44:56< alink> aarg mouse_events.cpp :-/
20090830 15:45:16< mordante> guess then we need to buy new numbers
20090830 15:45:32< mordante> alink, conflict?
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20090830 15:46:15< alink> no, but i was committing
20090830 15:46:34< mordante> ah ok
20090830 15:46:38< alink> and then i stupidly did a global svn up :-/
20090830 15:47:02< grzywacz> mordante, it's nice to have slow CIA :p
20090830 15:47:15< loonycyborg> Why 'stupidly'? It should have handled the merge..
20090830 15:47:40< mordante> grzywacz, only lagged a little bit
20090830 15:48:09< alink> loonycyborg: i can commit based on a not-up-to-date file ?
20090830 15:48:28< mordante> no svn won't allow that
20090830 15:48:48< alink> yeah it would need to know c++ to be sure that it's safe
20090830 15:49:13< mordante> no it needs to make sure there are no merge conflicts
20090830 15:49:33< mordante> it doesn't what the content actually is
20090830 15:49:34< loonycyborg> svn won't commit if you changed the file that changed on the server too,
20090830 15:50:29< alink> loonycyborg: ok then that's what happened, mordante committed few second before me (when writing the msg)
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20090830 15:51:24< loonycyborg> But iirc it allows you to commit if there were no remote changes to files you changed.
20090830 15:52:25< alink> yes that svn do
20090830 15:53:04< alink> btw i said stupid because i should svn up only the file that we both changed, not all the others headers
20090830 15:55:14< alink> mmh i realize now that svn needs to split the project in many files if there is many devs (to work well)
20090830 15:55:36< alink> a big one-file project could be a problem :)
20090830 15:58:00< mordante> well I expect to become a problem for us humans much faster ;-)
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20090830 16:05:43< CIA-62> alink * r38240 /trunk/src/ (5 files): 
20090830 16:05:43< CIA-62> Display the waypoints like we do for mouse-hover and "turn points", but without a turn-to-reach number.
20090830 16:05:43< CIA-62> Still not perfect: lack feedback when setting it and may be confusing at first use.
20090830 16:05:43< CIA-62> Also now allow to remove a waypoint by double setting it.
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20090830 16:56:23-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.7.4 planned for Sunday | 83 bugs, 241 feature requests, 11 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20090830 17:34:40< CIA-62> alink * r38241 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Display waypoint with an image (placeholder: the white dot "waypoint" from story map)
20090830 17:36:02< alink> I will surely change it later, it's simple but a bit ugly, has not obvious meaning and the color is too similar to turn number
20090830 17:38:01< alink> instead, I am thinking to add something special around the footsteps, to better show that we want to walk on these specific footsteps. but need to experiment to see if it can be made clear enough
20090830 17:39:40< alink> i also hesitate to let visible def% on waypoints, it may be useful to see if if you are specifying a path with high def% or invisibility, but it also a bit confusing with turn-points
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20090830 18:00:10< CIA-62> alink * r38242 /trunk/src/game_display.cpp: 
20090830 18:00:10< CIA-62> Use slightly smaller font for def% of simple waypoints to better differentiate
20090830 18:00:10< CIA-62> them from the more important cases of turn-points.
20090830 18:01:46< alink> btw those are late changes but it doesn't affect the standard interface, only the new waypoint feature
20090830 18:02:10< alink> well, in theory at least :-p
20090830 18:02:11< CIA-62> thespaceinvader * r38243 /trunk/data/core/units/drakes/Inferno.cfg: Add TC macro to inferno drake
20090830 18:07:04< thespaceinvader> Ivanovic: i'm just waiting on jet's final say-so on my finished frames, but if you're ready before he is, i can commit them at about 5 minutes notice, so let me know when =)
20090830 18:08:17< alink> Ivanovic: btw, i think i have finished tweaking waypoints for the release
20090830 18:08:26< Ivanovic> alink: okay
20090830 18:09:39< Ivanovic> AI0867, alink, boucman, cib0, corn, Crab_, Crab_, dfranke, elias, fendrin, grzywacz, ilor, loonycyborg, mordante, shadowmaster, Sirp, Soliton, thespaceinvader, zookeeper, everyone else who cares: i currently plan to work on the release in about 50mins
20090830 18:09:53< Ivanovic> please make sure that your stuff is all online and that there are no grave bugs left
20090830 18:10:13< thespaceinvader> Ivanovic: i think jet is busy for a while, so i'll commit now and fix any issues after release
20090830 18:10:19< Ivanovic> thespaceinvader: okay
20090830 18:10:47< Crab_> Ivanovic: all ok. hehe, I'm mentioned twice :)
20090830 18:11:05< Ivanovic> right, the 2nd time was meant to be crimson_penguin
20090830 18:11:18< Ivanovic> that is the problem if the first two letters are not unique...
20090830 18:11:25< mordante> Ivanovic, nothing left for me
20090830 18:11:33< crimson_penguin> oh, new release
20090830 18:12:16 * crimson_penguin updates his svn
20090830 18:12:28< crimson_penguin> (I know, not yet, but I may as well get up-to-date now)
20090830 18:13:27< CIA-62> thespaceinvader * r38244 /trunk/ (44 files in 3 dirs): New Fire Drake base frames and animations, remove old frames. Update changelogs.
20090830 18:13:53< Ivanovic> thespaceinvader: are you done with images now?
20090830 18:14:01< thespaceinvader> yes Ivanovic 
20090830 18:14:01< Ivanovic> then i will run wesnoth-optipng
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20090830 18:15:19< thespaceinvader> ok cool
20090830 18:16:01< alink> we don't have a tool to remove RGB info of fully transparent pixels ?
20090830 18:16:23< alink> (to help compression)
20090830 18:16:46< Ivanovic> alink: no idea if optipng does this already
20090830 18:17:22< alink> well i don't think so, because many wesnoth images have these pixels
20090830 18:17:35< alink> a good example is the wesnoth logo
20090830 18:17:42< alink> at least few months ago
20090830 18:18:07< Ivanovic> alink: though i don't think it will help much regarding "space used on disk"
20090830 18:18:22< Ivanovic> since these days at least 4kb blocks are used, most likely larger ones
20090830 18:18:39< Ivanovic> (and most images we got are significantly smaller than 4kb)
20090830 18:19:32< alink> it may help the PNG decompession, and I hope SDL discards these pixels for the RLE compression
20090830 18:20:30< alink> the logo is 80ko and has probably 10% of junk
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20090830 18:33:42< Ivanovic> yogihh, loonycyborg: interesting result when disabling compression for savegames
20090830 18:34:00< Ivanovic> suddenly loading for "Gaiyamato" is a hell of a lot faster
20090830 18:34:34< Ivanovic> that is he has an AMD 5200+ as cpu, which itself should be lovely fast
20090830 18:34:43< Ivanovic> for compression we directly use zlib, right?
20090830 18:35:41< Ivanovic> fendrin, mordante (no idea for whom of you this one is or if it is already fixed for 1.7.4): http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26864&start=0
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20090830 18:36:46< mordante> Ivanovic,  for compressing we use boost iostreams which uses zlib
20090830 18:36:57< Crab_> Ivanovic: bug #14165
20090830 18:37:41< mordante> thanks Crab_, I was just looking for the number ;-)
20090830 18:37:49< Crab_> np
20090830 18:37:54< Ivanovic> okay regarding this crash bug
20090830 18:38:28< Ivanovic> mordante: so you think maybe a new boost version can help with speed when loading compressed saves?
20090830 18:39:04< Ivanovic> since it *could* be some bug in boost or zlib that makes things (the way we use them) damn slow on some windows boxes that should provide decent speed and do so on linux
20090830 18:41:36< Ivanovic> hui, wesnoth-optipng is done with the units and already at the terrain
20090830 18:42:25< mordante> Ivanovic, no idea best ask loonycyborg whether he changed the boost version recently
20090830 18:42:46< Ivanovic> mordante: we had some complaints about loading times and all the likes before already
20090830 18:42:58< Ivanovic> so i'd guess that it was there "for ages" by now
20090830 18:44:08< mordante> yes but I think the complains got worse and the systems suffering the problem faster
20090830 18:44:24< Ivanovic> might be
20090830 18:45:23< stikonas> wesnoth only requires boost 1.35 ant boost  1.40 is already released, so maybe there will be no problem to higher some dependencies
20090830 18:46:16< mordante> stikonas, the problem is that Debian Lenny carries 1.35
20090830 18:46:21< Ivanovic> stikonas: no idea how easy it is to upgrade the windows build env
20090830 18:46:39< mordante> so we can use a higher version for the Windows build, but can't make it mandatory
20090830 18:49:38< loonycyborg> iirc I'm currently I'm using 1.39 . It isn't easy to check that for sure from linux since the partition where boost is installed isn't mounted.
20090830 18:49:46< Ivanovic> i don't know what we currently use and how difficult it will be to up/downgrade
20090830 18:50:03< mordante> boost 1.40 was released at the end of last week
20090830 18:50:08< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: and maybe make sure that the zlib version used is up to date, too
20090830 18:50:42< Ivanovic> i just think that those two reporting in this thread might make a good testcase for just an updated binary with different libs
20090830 18:52:22< loonycyborg> I'm using zlib zlib-1.2.3 . AFAIK it isn't updated very often..
20090830 18:54:38< loonycyborg> I suppose I could upgrade/downgrade to any version of boost
20090830 18:54:57< loonycyborg> I just need to compile it and install in appropriate place.
20090830 18:56:31< Ivanovic> zlib-1.2.3 is the latest one, and it is already ancient by now
20090830 18:56:42< stikonas> Ivanovic: will wesnoth after version 1.8 be 1.10 or 2.0?
20090830 18:56:55< Ivanovic> so i'd guess some test with boost 1.35 vs 1.39 vs 1.40 might be nice
20090830 18:57:16< Ivanovic> stikonas: not sure at all
20090830 18:57:24< Ivanovic> though i think it will be 1.10
20090830 18:57:59< Ivanovic> stikonas: we have not really talked about what will be required to call things 2.0
20090830 18:58:06< Ivanovic> i'd say this could be a good estimate:
20090830 18:58:08< loonycyborg> 2.0 will be with a 3D engine :P
20090830 18:58:16< Ivanovic> 1) basically every mainline unit has a portrait
20090830 18:58:24< Ivanovic> (yes, we are already close to this!)
20090830 18:58:31< Ivanovic> 2) gui system rewritten
20090830 18:58:46< Ivanovic> 3) ai modular and formula stuff "stable" and well usable
20090830 18:58:50< ilor> 2b) gui system well tested on small and huge resolutions
20090830 18:59:06< Ivanovic> ilor: yes, having hings well tested is a part of the rewritten thingie
20090830 18:59:38< ilor> my emphasis was more on the small and large res, atm wesnoth isn't exactly stellar in either
20090830 19:00:02< Ivanovic> ilor: i hope that in november my pandora finally arrives
20090830 19:00:13< Ivanovic> then i will most likely test things *a lot* on 800x480
20090830 19:00:14< Ivanovic> ;)
20090830 19:02:55< loonycyborg> iostreams isn't one of boost libraries that was updated in 1.39-1.40
20090830 19:03:06< loonycyborg> According to the announcement.
20090830 19:03:51< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: i don't assume that their changelog is this much better than ours
20090830 19:03:54< mordante> ilor, with my new screen I can easily test large resolutions ;-)
20090830 19:03:58-!- happygrue [n=George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20090830 19:04:08< mordante> how is your computer building going?
20090830 19:04:10< Ivanovic> and i know that changelogs are always perfect and complete, right?
20090830 19:04:13< Ivanovic> ;)
20090830 19:04:28< mordante> yes they are :-P
20090830 19:04:39< ilor> mordante: fine, but haven't had time to work much on the system, or to setup building wesnoth
20090830 19:04:46< loonycyborg> AFAICT they're actually tracking commits when building that list.
20090830 19:04:57< ilor> I quite like how the cpu cooler manages *without* the fan on ;)
20090830 19:05:17< mordante> :-(
20090830 19:05:18-!- Espreon [n=espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090830 19:05:35< mordante> guess you love the fan of your cooler ;-)
20090830 19:09:54< ilor> mordante: well the entire half-a-kilo mass of the radiator vibratig slightly on top of the cpu can't be a good thing, so I keep it off for now
20090830 19:10:19< Ivanovic> uhm, what fan do you have?!?
20090830 19:10:40< ilor> okay maybe a slight exaggeration with the half a kilo
20090830 19:10:46< ilor> but still the mugen is rather large
20090830 19:11:29< ilor> actually, no, it's 870g according to some spec
20090830 19:12:20< mordante> yeah I read some tests of CPU coolers that heavy and also think it can't be good to have such a mass just hanging around ;-)
20090830 19:13:05 * Ivanovic is glad that his tiny watercooling just has some hundred grams on the CPU, the rest is adjusted to the case...
20090830 19:13:06< Ivanovic> ;)
20090830 19:14:20< ilor> I wouldn't trusn mu nonexistant plumbing skills and try using watercooling :P
20090830 19:14:23< ilor> *trust
20090830 19:15:07< mordante> :-)
20090830 19:16:17< Ivanovic> uhm, no need to be super mario for setting up a watercooling, it is really simple and difficult to do something wrong
20090830 19:17:18< mordante> whoah that sounds almost idiot proof
20090830 19:17:31 * loonycyborg wonders what'll happen if there are leaks..
20090830 19:17:44< ilor> leaks lead to sparks
20090830 19:17:50< ilor> sparks lead to smoke
20090830 19:17:53< ilor> smoke leads to anger
20090830 19:17:54< ilor> etc
20090830 19:18:23< loonycyborg> Maybe they should choose some less dangerous substance than water for cooling purposes? :P
20090830 19:18:31< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38245 /trunk/ (347 files in 25 dirs): 
20090830 19:18:31< CIA-62> ran wesnoth-optipng
20090830 19:18:31< CIA-62> Overall statistics (only for files with a smaller recompressed size):
20090830 19:18:31< CIA-62> Original size: 8707 KiB on 347 files
20090830 19:18:31< CIA-62> Optimized size: 7849 KiB
20090830 19:18:32< CIA-62> Total saving: 857 KiB = 9% decrease
20090830 19:18:54< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: in theory destilled water does not create any problem for hardware when running
20090830 19:19:17< Ivanovic> the problem is the dust available which will make the water vonductive
20090830 19:19:50< Ivanovic> everybody: please get your last changes in, will work on packaging in 5mins
20090830 19:19:58< Ivanovic> (running the pot-update now)
20090830 19:20:01< ilor> I had a very good lecturer at uni that was a theoretical physicist. He claimed that without an experiment theories are worthless ;)
20090830 19:20:47< Ivanovic> ilor: like i said, theories already know that there is dust and that *will* lead to problems
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20090830 19:26:38< CIA-62> alink * r38247 /trunk/images/misc/waypoint.png: Tweak the alpha of the waypoint image placeholder
20090830 19:27:15< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38246 /trunk/ (286 files in 27 dirs): 
20090830 19:27:15< CIA-62> pot-update (preparing for 1.7.4)
20090830 19:27:15< CIA-62> regenerated doc files
20090830 19:27:16< alink> I also removed all the fully-transparent pixels that i left there (I found the Gimp option for that)
20090830 19:27:55< Ivanovic> everybody: ready?
20090830 19:28:02< alink> btw the PNG specifications advise to remove them for compression purposes
20090830 19:28:23< mordante> yes
20090830 19:28:38< alink> Ivanovic: yes ready now, but don't forget to svn up my last commit ;)
20090830 19:28:45< Ivanovic> already have done so
20090830 19:28:49< alink> ok
20090830 19:31:46< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38248 /trunk/ (changelog configure.ac players_changelog src/wesconfig.h): 
20090830 19:31:46< CIA-62> cleanup players_changelog (alphabetical sorting of categories, ...)
20090830 19:31:46< CIA-62> bump version to 1.7.4
20090830 19:32:08-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: releasing 1.7.4 | 83 bugs, 241 feature requests, 11 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090830 19:32:27< alink> initial waypoint.png 2081 bytes, after optipng: 1876, after removing fully transparent pixels:399
20090830 19:32:47< alink> but that was an extreme case
20090830 19:33:47-!- Chusslove [n=Chusslov@212.124.172.30] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
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20090830 19:47:27< Ivanovic> Crab_, fendrin: when starting LoW:
20090830 19:47:29< Ivanovic> 20090830 19:47:11 error config: File not found 'FILTER_LOYALS'
20090830 19:47:30< Ivanovic> 20090830 19:47:11 error config: File not found 'AI_ASPECT_FOR_TIME_OF_DAY'
20090830 19:47:32< Ivanovic> 20090830 19:47:11 error config: File not found 'AI_ASPECT_FOR_TIME_OF_DAY'
20090830 19:47:34< Ivanovic> 20090830 19:47:11 error config: File not found 'AI_ASPECT_FOR_TIME_OF_DAY'
20090830 19:47:49< Crab_> Ivanovic: it's for me
20090830 19:47:52< Ivanovic> is this bad or a case of "ignore and will be fixed soon"?
20090830 19:48:02-!- Chusslove [n=Chusslov@adsl-ppp-3100.yubc.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090830 19:48:08< Ivanovic> (as in should i wait with the release for the fix?)
20090830 19:48:15< Crab_> can be ignored, but's it's  pretty easy to fix
20090830 19:48:35< fendrin> Ivanovic: The bug in the forum post you pointed to is fixed.
20090830 19:48:48< Ivanovic> if it can be ignored: great!
20090830 19:49:00< Ivanovic> (since i already created a tarball, am currently uploading and testing it
20090830 19:49:12< Ivanovic> and i would like to use this one if it really works)
20090830 19:49:38< Crab_> Ivanovic: but ask fendrin about FILTER_LOYALS :)
20090830 19:50:00< Ivanovic> fendrin: [19:49:38] <Crab_> Ivanovic: but ask fendrin about FILTER_LOYALS :)
20090830 19:50:21< fendrin> Ivanovic: give me a minute to investigate.
20090830 19:50:34< Ivanovic> when starting DM (basically when switching to scenario 2):
20090830 19:50:36< Ivanovic> Invalid WML found: continue is deprecated as result in [endlevel], use the new attributes instead.
20090830 19:50:42< Ivanovic> would be nice to have it fixed sonn, too
20090830 19:52:32< Ivanovic> and one in utbs, that is probably you, too, fendrin, right?
20090830 19:52:34< Ivanovic> 20090830 19:52:16 error config: File not found 'KALEH_TELEPORT'
20090830 19:53:24-!- xchat_sux is now known as Elvish_Pillager
20090830 19:56:26< Ivanovic> ilor: in the map editor it is normal that by default the coordinates and terrain letters are shown?
20090830 19:56:38< Ivanovic> at least that is the case atm with default settings
20090830 19:57:16< CIA-62> fendrin * r38249 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/utils/deaths.cfg: LoW: Fixed a missing macro.
20090830 19:58:22< Ivanovic> fendrin: is it bad if this macro is not available (as in: should i repackage since LoW is not playable without)?
20090830 19:59:08< fendrin> Ivanovic: I am not sure. It may lead to a message every time a unit of the player dies. Very annoying.
20090830 19:59:20< Ivanovic> okay, then i got to repackage, argh
20090830 19:59:30< fendrin> Ivanovic: Sorry for your extra work.
20090830 19:59:40< Crab_> Ivanovic: wait a few minutes, then 
20090830 19:59:42< mordante> players shouldn't die :-P
20090830 19:59:52< Ivanovic> fendrin: please have a look at the utbs message, too
20090830 20:00:02< Ivanovic> mordante: some cardiac arrest might happen, who knows...
20090830 20:00:02< fendrin> Ivanovic: Wait I will try to fix the Kaleh_teleport as well
20090830 20:00:03< Ivanovic> ;)
20090830 20:00:42< mordante> ah the usual last minute fixes
20090830 20:00:55< mordante> maybe I should also commit another patch :-P
20090830 20:06:49< CIA-62> crab * r38250 /trunk/data/core/macros/ai.cfg: uncommented a macro
20090830 20:06:50< Ivanovic> mordante: you could "fix" (okay, i mean add) po4a support to cmake
20090830 20:06:52< Ivanovic> :)
20090830 20:06:56< CIA-62> fendrin * r38251 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/08_Out_of_the_Frying_Pan.cfg: UtBS 8: Moved a macro around so the game can find it.
20090830 20:07:21< Crab_> Ivanovic: fixed ' error config: File not found 'AI_ASPECT_FOR_TIME_OF_DAY' '
20090830 20:07:21< fendrin> Ivanovic: Here we are.
20090830 20:07:50< mordante> Ivanovic, I'm testing another cmake patch
20090830 20:08:42< Ivanovic> mordante: relevant for 1.7.4?
20090830 20:08:47< Ivanovic> (probably not)
20090830 20:08:54< mordante> btw Ivanovic do you already use the cmake pot-update?
20090830 20:09:05< Ivanovic> yes
20090830 20:09:13< mordante> Ivanovic, no rather do it post 1.7.4, might cause some breakage
20090830 20:09:14< Ivanovic> for two releases or so already
20090830 20:09:22< Ivanovic> okay, then i will svn up now and repackage
20090830 20:12:01< Ivanovic> btw the uncompressed tarball has 452MB
20090830 20:12:42-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: releasing 1.7.4, using r38251 | 83 bugs, 241 feature requests, 11 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090830 20:12:52-!- DDR [n=chatzill@66.183.125.196] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20090830 20:14:00< mordante> good to know I had some troubles with the pot-update, but guess I broke it with a local change
20090830 20:15:27< Ivanovic> the pot-update in the version available in svn seems to work nicely
20090830 20:15:40< Ivanovic> fendrin, Crab_: the three error messages are gone now
20090830 20:15:54< Ivanovic> fendrin, esr: whom of you maintains delfadors memoirs?
20090830 20:16:05< Ivanovic> IIRC that message i just posted was already part of 1.7.3
20090830 20:16:57< mordante> guess I'll revert my local changes and see why it broke
20090830 20:17:21< Ivanovic> 18.4MB xdelta
20090830 20:17:22< Ivanovic> lovely...
20090830 20:17:42< mordante> oh and the good news is, my new machine is fast enough to work on the pot/po4a stuff here 
20090830 20:17:50< Ivanovic> cool
20090830 20:18:07< Ivanovic> so how many threads do you use for compiling now?
20090830 20:18:10< Ivanovic> -j5?
20090830 20:18:16< mordante> -j4
20090830 20:18:44< mordante> -j5 is slightly 3 seconds faster but causes a much higher load
20090830 20:19:12< mordante> about*
20090830 20:23:05< Ivanovic> puh, in 40mins the upload to wesnoth.org should be done
20090830 20:23:35< Sirp> mordante: well isn't that the entire idea? a higher load? :)
20090830 20:24:53< mordante> Sirp, yes but it also caused the system to respond slower in general
20090830 20:25:11< mordante> and that for about 3 seconds didn't seem a good deal
20090830 20:25:41< mordante> besides my new system is so much faster as the old one, everything feels blazing fast ;-)
20090830 20:27:38< Chusslove> Ivanovic: I'm wondering how to note addition of localized images in changelogs: under "*Updated translations: ..." subcategory (i.e. no different to text), or e.g. "*Update images: ..."?
20090830 20:28:04< Ivanovic> Chusslove: the images are a part of translations
20090830 20:28:27< stikonas> Chusslove: where are the instructions on localization of images
20090830 20:28:30< Ivanovic> so if the lang is already listed at "Updated translations" then do nothing, if it is not, add it in both, players_changelog and changelog
20090830 20:28:42< Chusslove> Ivanovic: Gotcha.
20090830 20:28:52< Chusslove> stikonas: I'm shortly sending to ML.
20090830 20:31:39< Sirp> mordante: sure, because it saturates your processor. :)
20090830 20:31:53< Sirp> mordante: if you want to see the 'overhead' it's causing though, you could look at number of context switches per second.
20090830 20:32:00< Sirp> (sar -w for instance)
20090830 20:32:05< Ivanovic> mordante: the reason is probably the scheduler having problems with too much IO load
20090830 20:33:03< Sirp> 5000 context switches/second = a little scheduler overhead, 10,000+ context switches second = significant overhead, 100,000+ context switches/second = ugh
20090830 20:33:21< mordante> interesting, will test that later
20090830 20:33:42< mordante> haven't started to optimize the kernel+settings yes
20090830 20:33:52< mordante> but didn't know about sar
20090830 20:34:36< Sirp> actually looks like sar works differently between versions. On some servers I have at work, it's sar -w to see context switches, on my laptop here it's sar -P
20090830 20:34:46< Sirp> you have to have sar installed of course. This information should also be available somewhere under /proc
20090830 20:35:04< Sirp> having sar installed is very nice though, because it allows you to see 'historical norms' for your machine
20090830 20:35:38< Sirp> wesnothd averages 2600 context switches/second, which I think is completely reasonable for a server
20090830 20:35:51< Sirp> errr by 'wesnothd' I mean our server box. :)
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20090830 20:36:41< Sirp> some of our server's CPU usage stats look a little concerning though
20090830 20:37:42< mordante> guess I'll have a look later this week :-)
20090830 20:38:04-!- Elvish_Pillager [n=eli@71-10-231-36.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20090830 20:38:11< mordante> Sirp, regarding the addon server, what's your biggest problem with it?
20090830 20:42:14< Sirp> mordante: ahh yes, good question.....the add on server is still in C++, right? and uses our networking framework?
20090830 20:42:33< mordante> Sirp, yes still C++ and SDL_Net
20090830 20:42:51< Sirp> mordante: okay, so the main problem is that SDL_Net struggles to handle timeouts properly
20090830 20:43:17< Sirp> and so left over connections often hang around a long time
20090830 20:44:55-!- fabi [n=fabi@f051048131.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090830 20:45:11< mordante> that's your only problem with the server?
20090830 20:46:18< Sirp> mordante: well it'd be nice if it had some cool functionality added, but that is my only 'problem' with it
20090830 20:46:52< mordante> ok, I want to play a bit with boost asio and I think the addon server is a nice project for it
20090830 20:47:05< Sirp> mordante: yeah it is
20090830 20:47:11< Sirp> and boost asio is really nice
20090830 20:47:26< Sirp> I used it to write Frogatto's multiplayer server, which seems to work nicely
20090830 20:48:03< mordante> unfortunately the documentation is a bit short and the reference manual seems to miss some parts :-(
20090830 20:48:18< mordante> the header files contain a lot more info as the reference manual has
20090830 20:48:33< Sirp> mordante: it does take a little digging into. :)
20090830 20:49:26< mordante> yeah, that's why I think the addon server is a nice project for it 
20090830 20:55:10< CIA-62> caslav_ilic * r38254 /trunk/ (28 files in 13 dirs): Updated localized images for Serbian.
20090830 20:55:21< CIA-62> caslav_ilic * r38253 /trunk/ (changelog l10n-spec): Set up tracking of up-to-date state of localized images.
20090830 20:55:22< CIA-62> ivanovic * r38252 /tags/1.7.4/: tagged 1.7.4, using r38251
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20090830 20:57:47< zookeeper> Sirp, when you originally decided on the combat system, did you at all suspect how much complaints there would eventually be about randomness?
20090830 20:58:19-!- fendrin [n=fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20090830 21:01:45< Sirp> zookeeper: well, I knew it was a combat system that wouldn't appeal to everyone. I knew that in the Civilization series, the latest iterations of which I think there is considerably less randomness than Wesnoth had numerous complaints. However I didn't think Wesnoth would ever become popular enough to attract many complaints.
20090830 21:07:33-!- zookeeper2 [n=l@88-148-253-151.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20090830 21:07:52< Sirp> zookeeper2: did you get what I wrote? :p
20090830 21:07:58< zookeeper2> yeah, from the logs
20090830 21:08:00< corn> Sirp: just ran sar -w on my box, I have roughly 10k context switches/second. how can I reduce it without actually reducing load on my server? switch schedulers?
20090830 21:10:00-!- zookeeper [n=l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
20090830 21:10:01< sauron> should anybody care to try - the mod for 1.6.4 is out
20090830 21:11:59< Sirp> corn: well, what are you running on your box?
20090830 21:12:10< esr> Ivanovic: fendrin and I both work on DM.
20090830 21:12:41< corn> Sirp: several halflife gameserver instances, a VM, apache, mysql
20090830 21:12:57< Ivanovic> esr: would be nice if one of you had a look at that message that appears after just clicking through the first (story only) scenario
20090830 21:13:09< esr> ?
20090830 21:13:11< Sirp> corn: there are two main ways to get lots of context switches: (1) you're running a lot of processes (counting a thread as a process); (2) your processes are often having to stop processing before their time slice ends, due to having to wait for something.
20090830 21:13:58< Ivanovic> esr: and please don't forget the spelling mistakes list
20090830 21:14:01< Ivanovic> ;)
20090830 21:14:33< corn> Sirp: do VM processes count toward the overall process count, or is a vm a single process from a processor's perspective?
20090830 21:14:37< Sirp> corn: the scheduler is generally not to blame for a large number of context switches. It might be to blame for not handling the context switches efficiently, but the Linux 2.6 scheduler is really very good.
20090830 21:14:39< fabi> Ivanovic: LoW is still full of that depricated wml endlevel result.
20090830 21:14:48< Sirp> corn: depends on how the VM is implemented.
20090830 21:15:07< Sirp> i.e. if the VM is implemented using one or multiple threads etc.
20090830 21:15:34< corn> ah
20090830 21:15:42< Sirp> corn: ps -eLf <vm name> | wc -l
20090830 21:15:51< Sirp> that'll tell you how many threads your VM has
20090830 21:16:27< zookeeper2> Sirp, it's just interesting how some detail like that ends up being such a source of contention and getting analyzed far more than it was when deciding on it
20090830 21:17:12< Sirp> corn: and just ps -eLF | wc -l for total number of threads running on the system.
20090830 21:17:17< Sirp> zookeeper2: yes it is interesting. :)
20090830 21:18:01< Sirp> corn: the most likely reason for a lot of context switches on a server type machine is that one specific application has a lot of waits in it
20090830 21:18:07< corn> Sirp: yep, it was 187 in total and 25 for the VM alone. just out of curiousity, do you know why the VM is listed as keeping one cpu core completely occupied when I know that all of the processes in the VM is idling?
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20090830 21:18:27< corn> s/is idling/are idling/
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20090830 21:19:44< corn> by completely occupied I mean that the process shows 50% cpu usage constantly in top, which is 100% usage of one of the two cores
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20090830 21:25:46< Sirp> corn: well what is listing the VM as keeping the core busy? top? and what VM is it?
20090830 21:28:17< corn> Sirp: yep, top. and it's a windows xp instance running under virtualbox 3.0. thanks for answering my silly questions :)
20090830 21:29:27< Sirp> corn: I don't know. Maybe it sucks up CPU for idle processing. If it's not already, I'd recommend renicing the VM to run at a lower priority than other processes.
20090830 21:30:18< Sirp> the Linux scheduler is generally very good: if you have a lower priority process using 100% CPU, a higher priority process should perform just as well as if the CPU was completely idle.
20090830 21:32:01< corn> Sirp: well, it's fine as it is now at the default niceness. on the wesnoth.org server though I noticed that there is a noticable pause when you need to do I/O
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20090830 21:32:24< corn> ex. open a program that isn't in memory, or a file
20090830 21:33:53< Sirp> corn: yeah the wesnoth.org server has a disturbingly high iowait time. I'm not sure why this is. Maybe its HDD isn't efficient enough for the load thrown at it, or perhaps there's some process sending it excess load
20090830 21:34:36< Sirp> on average though, there's about 3.5K read and 3.5K written to the disk every second, which doesn't seem excessive.
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20090830 21:42:02< CIA-62> mordante * r38255 /trunk/src/CMakeLists.txt: Remove a duplicate file inclusion.
20090830 21:42:09< CIA-62> mordante * r38256 /trunk/ (changelog src/CMakeLists.txt): 
20090830 21:42:09< CIA-62> Optimized the cmake building.
20090830 21:42:09< CIA-62> If both game and tests are enabled it puts more compilation units in the
20090830 21:42:09< CIA-62> shared library avoiding needless double compilations of the same file.
20090830 21:49:19 * crimson_penguin compiles
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20090830 22:10:39< shadowmaster> um/names
20090830 22:10:42< shadowmaster> argh.
20090830 22:13:02< CIA-62> cornmander * r38257 /website/stats.wesnoth.org/ (6 files in 4 dirs): 
20090830 22:13:02< CIA-62> Changed map hash from md5 to sha256. Refactored server-side upload code. Fixed sql username for uploader from the read-only username to the read/write
20090830 22:13:02< CIA-62> username. Added a seperate GAMES_AI table for ai vs. ai games.
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20090830 22:18:19< Ivanovic> okay, release tarball is now at sf.net, too
20090830 22:19:25< mordante> that took quite a while
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20090830 22:19:59< Ivanovic> mordante: oh, upload to sf.net was ready a while ago already
20090830 22:20:04< Ivanovic> i was just afk reading a book
20090830 22:20:24-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.7.4, announcing "soon" | 83 bugs, 241 feature requests, 11 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090830 22:20:43< Ivanovic> esr: feel free to close bugreports and patches that are done
20090830 22:20:43< mordante> ah ok, speaking of books I finally found time to read the black jewels and it's really interesting
20090830 22:20:50< Ivanovic> :)
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20090830 22:20:57< Ivanovic> how far are you currently?
20090830 22:21:21< Ivanovic> have you already had the scene where jaenelle wants to be thought how to fly like an eagle?
20090830 22:21:53< mordante> just finished the invisible ring and in the next book
20090830 22:22:04< mordante> yes about 5 pages beyond that
20090830 22:22:07< Ivanovic> ah, so you started with the "prequel"
20090830 22:22:14< Ivanovic> great scene, isn't it?
20090830 22:22:25< mordante> yes really interesting setting
20090830 22:23:16< Ivanovic> and there are no orks and no elves the way you normally know them...
20090830 22:23:17< mordante> I normally try to start with the prequel, my name isn't George Lucas ;-)
20090830 22:23:57< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: my build is ready now... what was that line again? (I'll save it this time)
20090830 22:24:05< mordante> yes I like it when fantasy doesn't fall back to the normal humans, orks, elves and dwarven setting
20090830 22:24:29< mordante> I mean be original and find something new and fresh
20090830 22:24:40< Ivanovic> rsync -avP -e ssh *1.7.4* ivanovic@frs.sourceforge.net:/home/frs/project/w/we/wesnoth/wesnoth/wesnoth-1.7.4
20090830 22:25:16< Ivanovic> of course you should use your own username
20090830 22:25:18< Ivanovic> ;)
20090830 22:25:48< crimson_penguin> yeah
20090830 22:25:51< crimson_penguin> no :wesnoth?
20090830 22:25:59< Ivanovic> it is not needed
20090830 22:26:04< crimson_penguin> ok
20090830 22:26:49< crimson_penguin> uploading
20090830 22:28:39-!- ilor [n=user@wesnoth/developer/ilor] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
20090830 22:28:53< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: I've compiled 1.7.4 using boost 1.40 and currently uploading.
20090830 22:30:07< Ivanovic> okay
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20090830 22:32:06< CIA-62> thespaceinvader * r38258 /trunk/data/core/units/drakes/Enforcer.cfg: Minor fix to enforcer WML
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20090830 22:45:16< mordante> fabi, LoW - 1 "Velon died, I am so sad!" doesn't sound elvish to me what do you think of "Velon's tragic loss makes my heart ache."
20090830 22:47:11< Blarumyrran> It sounds like Velon lost the speakers stroke prevention pills
20090830 22:47:34< mordante> ?
20090830 22:47:37< zookeeper> :P
20090830 22:52:23< corn> Crab_: my code should be ready for another test
20090830 22:52:30< Crab_> ok
20090830 22:52:54< Crab_> should I update/recompile ? or your changes are serverside-only ?
20090830 22:52:59< corn> serverside only
20090830 22:53:07< fabi> mordante: Sure, that is only a stub. I hoped that someone would fix it before 1.7.4.
20090830 22:53:11< corn> just run a few games, I can view records immediately
20090830 22:53:25< corn> I still need to make a lot of changes to make the actual viewing of data work, but uploading should finally be working
20090830 22:53:37< mordante> fabi, guess I'm too late with reading the changelogs ;-) do you or I change it?
20090830 22:53:49< Crab_> corn: test started  .../../wesnoth ../.. --log-debug=uploader --new-uploader --log-info=ai/testing --nogui --multiplayer --controller1=ai --controller2=ai --label="25_aug_2009_ai_default_vs_ai_testing_plus_fai_recruitment" --scenario=multiplayer_Silverhead_Crossing --ai_config1=ai/ais/default_ai.cfg --ai_config2=ai/dev/testing_ai_default.cfg
20090830 22:54:03< corn> Crab_: |      18 | 2009-08-30 22:53:52 | 214229079926731  | 125166565200000001 | unknown  | 1.7.3+svn | 2p - Silverhead Crossing | victory |       19 | Knalgan Alliance | Loyalists        | faction2 | default   | testing_ai_default |            |            | 25_aug_2009_ai_default_vs_ai_testing_plus_fai_recruitment |           13 |           0 |          13 |          0 | 
20090830 22:54:09< corn> (view from mysql cli)
20090830 22:54:13< Crab_> corn: ok, good. 
20090830 22:54:38< Crab_> corn: ( changed the label and restarted )
20090830 22:54:50< corn> Crab_: testing and making changes in the code is very bad right now because I have to test straight on wesnoth.org
20090830 22:54:54< fabi> mordante: It should already be marked for esr to reprose.
20090830 22:55:18< mordante> oh, then I'm not far enough with catching up yet ;-
20090830 22:55:23< mordante> ;-)
20090830 22:56:13< corn> Crab_: anyway, I hope to make the visualizations (killmaps, graphs) work by the end of today and implement a table view to have feature parity with aitest.wesnoth.org tomorrow
20090830 22:56:23-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.7.4, announcing "soon" | 84 bugs, 241 feature requests, 11 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20090830 22:56:24< Crab_> corn: good
20090830 22:58:51< corn> Crab_: how long will your test batch run? if apache receives any requests while my uploader is down (reloading for code changes) things will break
20090830 22:59:15< corn> specifically apache stops sending things to the uploader, even when it goes back up
20090830 22:59:19< Crab_> corn: several days 
20090830 22:59:22< corn> ok
20090830 22:59:34< Crab_> corn: why the breakage ?
20090830 22:59:45< corn> no idea, it's some weirdness in mod_proxy
20090830 22:59:55< Crab_> corn: why use mod_proxy in the first place 
20090830 22:59:56< Crab_> ?
20090830 23:00:34< corn> I started the gsoc project using a python webframework that is advertised as 'complete stack' so it has a builtin http server
20090830 23:00:55< corn> changing it to use mod_wsgi (python handler in apache) might not be easy
20090830 23:00:59< corn> but I should change it later this month
20090830 23:01:31< Crab_> corn: yes, but you can hide it behind nginx or lighthttpd, not behind apache..
20090830 23:01:58< corn> wesnoth.org runs apache
20090830 23:02:25< Crab_> corn: not the best idea for w.o :)
20090830 23:02:32< Crab_> ok, understood
20090830 23:03:34< Crab_> corn: can you show me the mod_proxy config ?
20090830 23:04:02< corn> sure. I will put it on pastebin
20090830 23:04:42< mordante> I'm off night
20090830 23:04:56< corn> Crab_: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/m7cdb7363
20090830 23:05:07-!- mordante [n=mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit ["Leaving"]
20090830 23:05:34< corn> the ProxyPass directives allow static things to be served without going through the python http server
20090830 23:06:38-!- fabi [n=fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20090830 23:07:34< Crab_> corn: ok, thanks.
20090830 23:08:40< corn> Crab_: making it work with apache directly doesn't seem that hard, actually...:http://turbogears.org/2.0/docs/main/Deployment/modwsgi+virtualenv.html . I'll do it tomorrow when Rhonda is back
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20090830 23:15:42< Crab_> corn: yes, getting rid of mod_proxy will be good...
20090830 23:18:41< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: The upload is complete
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20090830 23:39:07< stikonas> Chusslove: do you plan to add support for switching language in images without restart (when changing Main Menu->Language)?
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20090830 23:55:29< thespaceinvader> out of interest, can anybody tell me how often units.wesnoth.org updates?
20090830 23:59:04< shadowmaster> rr
20090830 23:59:11< shadowmaster> stupid wifi
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--- Log closed Mon Aug 31 00:00:32 2009